Editing 40d Talk:Brook

===Fishable?===
Might be worth mentioning if brooks are normal water with respect to fishability, or whether a channel needs to be dug first. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:31, 11 November 2007 (EST)
          
I suppose so, since it is a potential source of confusion.
--[[User:Dryn|Dryn]] 22:23, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== damming ==

# How do I know which side of my dam is going to be dry, before I dam a brook? (ie which way does the water flow, if the entire z-level is level, and the brook stays on the whole z-level from one edge of the screen to the other??)
# Will it cause a flood, when I dam a brook, if I don't leave a spillway?
# If I channel my brook so it is non-walkable, will it still freeze in winter?

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:37, 9 February 2008 (EST)

:#Check the edges of the brook that meet the map, one of them will be losing water. That's the downstream side.
:#Assuming this is the same level brook, no, as the dam would be at the same level as the source.
:#Channeling will simply remove the brook floor tiles, the brook itself will still freeze, like any exposed water.

[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Magma vs. Brook ==

So I've been playing around with magma and a brook, and in addition to setting about twenty dwarves on fire, I discovered some interesting things. The first I posted to the [[magma]] article a few days ago: namely, magma coming in contact with a brook will cause the water below the brook to harden to obsidian, but does not seem to produce steam. When I dug the obsidian out, I discovered WHY: magma falls through the brook floor tiles (and onto my miners, who of course catch on fire, and go back to their barracks to "sleep it off". Yeah. That went well). This also gives the brook tile the appearance of a boulder, but it does not obstruct wagons, and if you {{k|k}} over it, the description is still "brook". So now I'm curious: Does water fall through the brook floor tiles as well? Once I've finished draining the brook, perhaps I'll build a water pump and find out. If so, that would mean that brook "floor tiles" act like floor grates, or possibly floor bars: that is, solid things (or solid things larger than vermin) cannot pass through, but fluids can. Which kind of makes sense. Any thoughts? Has someone already done this? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:17, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:While the end effect might be the same I think you would find that when the magma comes in contact with the brook, some of the '''magma''' is turned to obsidian boulders by the '''water'''. The rest of the magma then falls through the boulders to the next level. The water would not become obsidian. Possibly the water is not even destroyed, just displaced... that would probably need source diving to work out. (I would guess that when a channel of magma reaches a brook tile there is infinately more water than magma - there would only be 1 x 7 units of magma but every brook tile and every aquifer tile is a gate to the elemental plane of water)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:11, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:My second point is, there is a huge difference between the natural surface of the brook and a ground layer scattered by obsidian boulders. You can tunnel under a brook, if you keep resetting all the "wet rock detected" stuff. I think magma would be destroying non-magma safe surfaces it is resting on that would be why it is "falling through".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:14, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::Research, continued:
::(1)Water will, in fact, pass downward through the surface of a brook. I dried up a brook, then pumped water onto its surface. The brook got muddy, and the tiles below suddenly had water.
::(2)If you dry up the water under the brook floor, the brook tile dries up; the character for a dry brook is the same as that for a boulder. This same character is visible on the tile below the brook floor (that is, at the level where the actual water would otherwise be). If you turned the water to obsidian with magma, you can mine it out to form an obsidian floor, but the upper tile will still be the dried brook character. If you run water over the floor, the dried brook character above turns back to a flowing brook character.
::(3)Dwarves do not appear to be able to walk on the bed (that is, the lower level) of a dried-up brook. A player can designate these tiles for digging (as in {{k|d}},{{k|d}} - which strikes me as weird) but dwarves will not dig them out.
::Addressing Garrie's points above:
::(1)It's my understanding, based on reading the wiki and my own observations, that any amount of water in a tile and any amount of magma in that same tile produces obsidian (and steam, which in the case of brooks appears trapped under the surface of the brook). The fact that the water replenishes does not affect this. I've dammed my brook in this manner twice now.
::(2)There is indeed a huge difference between the natural surface of a brook and a field full of boulders; my further research has shown what is going on here. As to magma destroying non-magma-safe surfaces: I believe (though I've not tested it) that this is the case for constructed surfaces. Magma will not melt naturally occurring floors, even if the area below has been mined out (this I have done myself). The fact that water also passes through the surface of the brook, and that the surface of the brook remains after the magma passes through it, leads me to believe my original analysis is correct.
::Oh, erm, I sound so severe. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 15:48, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Wagons ==

Can wagons travel along non-dried-up brooks, or do they need to be dammed up first? My latest fort is in some rough terrain, so I was thinking the local brook would make a good substitute for a road, and I didn't feel like wasting any dwarven human resources. --[[User:Toastdieb]]

:Brooks are small rivers that have a floor on top of them. So, yes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:10, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

== What the hell? ==

If he wanted to simulate a shallow river, why not just have a bunch of depth-2 water tiles flow through the map? Why have a bunch of depth-7 tiles with a floor on top of them? When you cross a brook, you're wading through the water, not walking across the top. And the game already simulates wading through water.

Can someone explain why it works this way?

: I see it as representing a mass of loose mud/gravel that's saturated with water. It's effectively solid when walking over the top, but if you dig a hole in (channel) or around it, the hole floods. That's good enough for me, at least. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 23:07, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:: Taking a guess, I'd say that it's because of the way water pressure works. In order to auto-generate a tile like you're talking about, the game would have to make sure that 9/7 strength water enters the map from the upstream edge, one z-level below the top of the brook. The computer would then have to calculate what happens to that extra pressure. Because of the way water flows, it is not guaranteed to go directly up. Each edge of the brook tile would splash in a randomly chosen direction, and ultimately eat up a lot of processing power. Many slower computers will quickly lose framerate on a map with any kind of running water, even given the current setup. 
:: Oh, and please remember to sign your posts with {{k|-}}{{k|-}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}. This makes the wiki a friendlier place all around. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 4 November 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 If he wanted to simulate a shallow river, why not just have a bunch of depth-2 water tiles flow through the map? Why have a bunch of depth-7 tiles with a floor on top of them? When you cross a brook, you're wading through the water, not walking across the top. And the game already simulates wading through water.
-Can someone explain why it works this way? --[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 04:07, 5 November 2008 (EST)
+Can someone explain why it works this way?
 : I see it as representing a mass of loose mud/gravel that's saturated with water. It's effectively solid when walking over the top, but if you dig a hole in (channel) or around it, the hole floods. That's good enough for me, at least. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 23:07, 4 November 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 :: Taking a guess, I'd say that it's because of the way water pressure works. In order to auto-generate a tile like you're talking about, the game would have to make sure that 9/7 strength water enters the map from the upstream edge, one z-level below the top of the brook. The computer would then have to calculate what happens to that extra pressure. Because of the way water flows, it is not guaranteed to go directly up. Each edge of the brook tile would splash in a randomly chosen direction, and ultimately eat up a lot of processing power. Many slower computers will quickly lose framerate on a map with any kind of running water, even given the current setup.
 :: Oh, and please remember to sign your posts with {{k|-}}{{k|-}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}{{k|~}}. This makes the wiki a friendlier place all around. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 4 November 2008 (EST)
-::: done --[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 04:07, 5 November 2008 (EST)
-:::: If you just added depth 2 water, it could/would go anywhere, and quickly flood the map.  Unless you put it in a channel, and now you have a nice little hole running through your map, which you can't walk over, which only has depth 2 water in it.   So, in order to best approximate a brook (shallow water you can walk through which follows a set path through the map)  He created what he did.  Tis the only way I'm afraid. --[[User:Hkidnc|Hkidnc]] 15:00, 5 November 2008 (EST)
-:The best possible explanation for this is as such. A shallow brook filled with depth 2 water would be several feet below ground level. Because the game does not have fractions of ground depth, the brooks are simply thin rivers with floor tiles above.<br>PS: RomeoFalling, try <tt><<b></b>tt><<b></b>nowiki>--~~<b></b>~~</nowiki><<b></b>/tt></tt><!-- holy crap, formatting hell -->. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)
-:: @ GreyMaria: I like my version better, but thanks for the info :) --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:00, 5 November 2008 (EST)
-==Swimming==
-While my adventurer was adventuring through the mountains, he came across a brook that made a waterfall.  The water at the base of the waterfall above the brook was deep enough to swim in, so I figured I could swim up this waterfall by alt moving upwards.  However, when I got to the split in the brook, I alt moved and went underneath the brook instead of over accidentally.  While under the brook, my (human) adventurer had vision range 1 and was drowning.  He was at adept level, so it wasn't panic.  The same way the brook acts as a floor from above, it acts like a ceiling from below, and one cannot swim up to the shore from under the brook.  Strangely, despite liquids going down through brook tiles, light and air don't. :> I edited the article with this very recent discovery.
-<br>[[User:Matt S|Matt S]] 00:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Walls over brooks ==
-If you build a stone wall tile over a brook tile, and then deconstruct it, the 'surface layer' of the brook changes to a rough stone tile of whatever you used for building the wall, at least in 28.181.40d13 windows version. Bug? What about wood? --[[User:Kaius|Kaius]] 17:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
-*It doesn't become the building material, but the base stone type for the biome through which the brook flows. I built a chalk wall over a spot on my brook, and when I removed it, the floor was made of felsite. An attempt at another embark location resulted in some brook tile turnings into "furrowed peat" and others turning into "chert" (which is what was present in the layer underneath). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
-== "Broken Brook Tiles" ==
-The article mentions something about collapsing constructions into a brook, causing water flowing through that tile to be destroyed. I've never observed *that* happening, but I've seen something similar in my current fortress. I channeled out a 3-wide section of brook (why, I don't recall at the moment), but, due to the congenital laziness of my miners, a single tile was left in the centre to collapse on the floor below. I didn't think much of it at the time, and continued with the brook draining project.
-A month later, I dug a passage under the brook to connect two store rooms. The miners were halfway through (after "Digging destination canceled: Damp stone located" warnings) when a new warning appeared:
-"Digging destination canceled: Dangerous terrain." Checking on the progress of the tunnel, I found a stream of 2-3 water pouring down from the ceiling. One z-level up, sure enough, was the brook floor square that the ceiling had collapsed on earlier. Still intact, but with a different type from teh other brook tiles, so easily recognizable. That section of the brook was down to level 3 water, so I sent a mason in to build a floor tile over the broken ceiling. That stopped the water flow.
-So, long story short, it seems cave-ins weaken floor tiles enough to let water drip through, if you later mine under them.--[[User:Wlerin|Wlerin]] 00:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
-== Magic flying horse corpses (object impassibility) ==
-In reference to [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=50790.0 this] thread, it seems that when channelled out from above, the lower part of brooks continues to act much like a statue or tree does in that the tiles above cannot be walked on but objects can rest on them without falling through. Worth noting? - [[User:Retro|Retro]] 23:33, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
-:What "objects" have you seen do that?  Because that doesn't sound right at all.  A brook has a "surface" on it, a floor - much as if you had mined out one level and the level below it, and then filled the lower one with flowing water (not perfectly so, but close enough for this discussion). Dwarves walk on the upper floor without even getting their shoes wet, and so on.  If you channel out a tile of that floor, it's "impassible" not because there's an object there like a statue or tree, but because there's no floor there - dwarves are crazy, but they're not stupid, they won't [[path]] over a hole.  So I have to wonder what objects you've observed "resting" on a channeled tile? (Unless you scumsaved the game the moment the tile was channeled out - falling objects have a tendency to get stuck.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
-::No, I didn't do that. It was horse corpses that exited flying mode, and it certainly wasn't the save/midair glitch. Did you look at the link I posted? The impassibility note wasn't about dwarves not being able to walk over a channelled tile, obviously they can't do that; it was that unless you destroy the water part of the brook underneath, objects won't be able to fall through - the new 'open space' tile is treating the objects as if there was a statue or tree or similar tile below and not dropping the objects (in this case corpses) through. Basically channelling a brook surface tile didn't turn the water below from brook-water to regular-water. It's just an interesting bit of information; I was asking if it was worth noting. Read the thread from the link; I posted a pic there too. I could go test this again by flinging stone around if it's necessary.--[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:49, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
-::...Huh, tried testing it again. The 'brook' tag was removed from the water level as well. Whatever happened with the horse corpse thing might be unreproducible, then. Might have something to do with the original map freezing and unfreezing, but unlikely. ''I guess we'll never know!'' --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 21:23, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
-:::<shrugs>
-:::Yeah, a bug by any other name. That's why, when observing odd phenomena, it's always a good call to bounce it off a Discussion page for confirmation rather than assuming you've noticed what everyone else has missed and just changing an article. It happens, but less often than not. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:26, 15 March 2010 (UTC)