Editing v0.31 Talk:Magma

There's several reports of creatures drowning or suffocating before burning to death even in 7/7 magma, is it possible that dwarves not burning in 1/7 magma is just a bug?
--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 17:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Could be. I would have added it to the talk page first, but Ip users can't even create talk pages >.> --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 18:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm aware of the reports but haven't looked into it myself yet. Add to this the reports of dwarves melting when it rains on a scorching day and it adds up to a pretty screwed up temperature system. You've got three different things that could be a factor. The components of a body have been radically overhauled, that's vastly more complex. We've got the new spatter system, also radically new, might be related, might not. And we've got the new temperatures in worldgen which are very different. I think the worldgen bit is because of a change that makes elevation influence temperature. 

:It all adds up to a huge poorly understood mess for now. I wasn't going to say anything about it on the main page yet because it's still wild theory that is not well understood. But I didn't feel it was worth arguing about either, so I didn't delete the note about it on the page. I did edit it slightly just so it looked better without trying to change the content of the message. -- [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
::What I found is that all creatures will survive being fully submerged in lava for a short time, not just magma immune ones. However, the ones that aren't magma immune '''will''' be burnt before being able to leave the square (when next to a ramp). If a non-immune creature is in 7/7 magma for more than 1 turn they will generally bleed/burn to death. --[[User:DUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 22:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I confirmed this. I tapped into one of these new fangled rigidly shaped volcanos just to test this issue and verified two things. magma is pressureless as expected, and contrary to expectation dwarves do not instantly die when coming in contact with magma. My unlucky miner fled the scene quickly but was without a doubt fully immersed in 7/7 magma before doing so. He suffered no injuries. 
:::Following this test I went ahead and flooded the whole fortress in magma verifying that magma can still kill dwarves, just not as efficiently as expected. The magma also left many objects fully submerged but unharmed which is also quite strange.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I had some fun with a volcano, underground caves, a reptile man tribe, my animals and at last my own dwarves. I dropped my animals down into the volcano but I was somehow disappointed by seeing a living dog "diving" in lava. He fell all the about 90 z.levels down, without even getting hurt. When he landed in the magma see far deep underground, he started to burn/bleed/die. I repeated this with my dwarves and other animals. It seems, falling THROUGH lava does not hurt only standing in it. Maybe it has some other reasons, but all my dwarves/animals reached the bottom magmasea unharmed.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
=Magma Sea=
There is a new line in world gen for Magma Layer YES/NO which would probably turn off the magma sea feature if desired. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Pipes and pools ==

Going by in-game terminology, there are no more magma pipes - there are only "magma pools" (which are obsidian-lined, extend up from the magma sea, and presumably refill just like 40d magma pipes) and volcanoes (which are likely just "magma pools" that extend all the way to the surface). In Adventurer mode, I encountered magma that extended all the way to the upper cavern layer (but no further), and the game reported that I had discovered a magma pool; upon jumping into it (stepping into the open space above it - stepping down into the magma left me "swimming" at the top of it unable to move at all), I plummeted straight to the magma sea ("discovering" it in the process) and slowly melted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:07, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:'''Praise the plummeters!''' I've only played with two maps - one had a volcano(?) that was visible on the main embark map, and the other had nuthin'.  If we need to redefine/delete some terms, then that's what we need to do - if there are no "pipes" in game, then we stick with "pools" and never refer to pipes again. 
:''(For reference to new players, in 40d "magma pipes" and "magma pools" could both be hidden and required revealing by mining - pipes would refill slowly if any magma were removed (by channeling/pumping), but pools contained a fixed amount only.  These may need redefining according to the 0.31 usage.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Keep in mind that pipes and pools as seen in 40d are hidden features again. So it's hard to casually say they just don't exist. Without the finder they're difficult to locate but for now I am still assuming they do still exist. It's very possible they've changed with the new underground stuff, but it's hard to say right away. Give it time. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:51, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::: I inspected a few maps with reveal out of boredom and noticed an oddity. I found what looks like a lava pipe (the usual shapeless large semi-circular area), but it had no lava. It only extended through about 5 z-levels and never touched lava. I can also confirm that I've seen pipes (pools?) that extend down to the sea as described. I spotted this in reveal and didn't get the message for finding it so I can't say on your pipe/pool thing. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 20:06, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, the game refers to them as 'pools'. So we should go with that until we have more information. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 20:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Infinite Magma Sources ==

Is there any way to guarantee that you will get a magma pipe on embark?  Making large magma systems or obsidian factories seems like it would be more difficult when you have to work with finite amounts of magma.  --[[Special:Contributions/129.252.122.38|129.252.122.38]] 15:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: You're guaranteed a magma sea at embark unless you turn that off in the world gen settings. As for finding a pipe just look for an actual volcano. You can adjust the world gen settings to be rich in volcanos if you so desire. Set elevation 200:400:3600:3600 and a high number of volcanos in worldgen if that is what you want. Of course, at present a volcano has no variance of shape whatsoever, and magma behaves a bit oddly. But if that's what you want it's easy enough to get. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Magma Temperature ==

What Temperature Is Magma In This Version? I Suspect It Is 12,000° Urist But Need Confirmation Before Editing The Article. Should This Go Into Magma Properties Or The Top Of The Article? --[[Special:Contributions/80.137.113.241|80.137.113.241]] 15:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
: Possibly, But as you say, it's not confirmed yet. And there's been some confusion on the subject over in the bug tracker. Apparently the list of magma-safe materials has undergone some pretty dramatic changes, and brought in a bug or two to confuse things. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::Magma's temperature is still 12000, as verified using dfprobe or dtil (with a sufficiently updated memory.ini). Also, Capitalizing Every Single Word You Type Makes You Look Rather Peculiar. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Thank you, I was waiting on confirmation before adding a note about temperature here since I saw there was some confusion on the subject. I updated it now. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 21:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

== Magma buildings == 
Does anybody have any idea what how the game decides when 'magma' has been discovered? I am 'playing' with magma spawning utilities and i cannae get ma magma smelters! [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 20:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:As soon as you discover the magma sea, or a magma pool. If you embark on a volcano you are allowed to build them immediately. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 00:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


== Volcano eruption ==
I just settled up on island in the middle of the sea with a visible volcano mountain, in a scorching climate. A few minutes after beginning to build my fortress it started raining. When the rain was about to stop I see a huge red thing, LAVA EVERYWHERE! The volcano seems to have erupted and lava is burning down the mountain and I expect my newly construct fortress to be drowned soon. I don't know if the rain is the cause of this lava flooding or if it is just an eruption. It may just have been a coincidence. Or the water may have been so hot, due to the scorching climate and changed into lava. Lava flood can be a logical explantation to the formation of the island.  [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2184-lavaeverywherevolcanoeruption Here is a video] <small>&ndash; --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]</small>
:Rain started to fall again... and it seem that is it the source of this magma overflow. Tiles are filled up to seven one level upper the volcano. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2185-lavanightmare Here is a video again.] <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]</small>
::It would be rather nasty if the "magma flow" tiles at the bottom of the magma sea were behaving the same as murky pools and allowing rainwater to accumulate (as magma)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::It don't seem to be behave the same because I have never seen a murky pool overflow. There it seem that magma is erupting from the upper level from what I have identified, when thinking about how to build my fortress, as the "top" of the volcano. Since the first flood there has been magma on that level. After taking a better look now that my fortress should be safe, the rain is no responsible for the phenomenon. Lava comes out of the volcano even when it is not raining. Now what I would like to know is why is magma flooding out. Any suggestions? <small>&ndash; --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]</small>
::::In that case, the bug is probably that the "magma pool" (read: volcano) is refilling past the top - if it's not already in the bug tracker, it might be wise to add it (and upload a savegame so others can reproduce it). Also, please sign your comments (by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::But is that really a bug? I mean, there are continuous lava flooding volcano in the real world. --[[Special:Contributions/90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]] 21:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)ToWT
::::::Maybe the Rain is forming obsidian that is dropping to the bottom of the magma sea and causing magma to displace out of the volcano --[[User:Ghosteh|Ghosteh]] 12:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If obsidian forms and collapses (from rain) there should be warning messages about it. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Depth bug==
 There's several reports of creatures drowning or suffocating before burning to death even in 7/7 magma, is it possible that dwarves not burning in 1/7 magma is just a bug?
 --[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 17:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 12: / Line 11: @@
 :::Following this test I went ahead and flooded the whole fortress in magma verifying that magma can still kill dwarves, just not as efficiently as expected. The magma also left many objects fully submerged but unharmed which is also quite strange.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 ::::I had some fun with a volcano, underground caves, a reptile man tribe, my animals and at last my own dwarves. I dropped my animals down into the volcano but I was somehow disappointed by seeing a living dog "diving" in lava. He fell all the about 90 z.levels down, without even getting hurt. When he landed in the magma see far deep underground, he started to burn/bleed/die. I repeated this with my dwarves and other animals. It seems, falling THROUGH lava does not hurt only standing in it. Maybe it has some other reasons, but all my dwarves/animals reached the bottom magmasea unharmed.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
-:Make sure you haven't turned temperature off in d_init.txt I was having this issue too when I first started playing with magma, and realized I'd turned temperature off to try and increase FPS. Turning temp back on should fix this, and might account for why some have this problem and some don't. --[[User:Forgenvash|Forgenvash]] 10:43, 30 Dec 2010 (PST)
+=Magma Sea=
-==Magma Sea==
 There is a new line in world gen for Magma Layer YES/NO which would probably turn off the magma sea feature if desired. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 42: / Line 39: @@
 :As soon as you discover the magma sea, or a magma pool. If you embark on a volcano you are allowed to build them immediately. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 00:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
-:If you don't reveal the magma during gameplay, then you can't. It's the act of digging it up during the game that allows you use of the buildings. That, and what Tarran said, might help. Map reveal utilities are generally broken in this respect. -- [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 15:35, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
-::For what it's worth, the version of DFHack released for 0.31.25 should have included my map feature management plugin, which permits manually "discovering" individual map features and thus properly enabling the construction of magma workshops (in such a way that persists across saves). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:40, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 == Volcano eruption ==
@@ Line 53: / Line 48: @@
 :::::But is that really a bug? I mean, there are continuous lava flooding volcano in the real world. --[[Special:Contributions/90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]] 21:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)ToWT
 ::::::Maybe the Rain is forming obsidian that is dropping to the bottom of the magma sea and causing magma to displace out of the volcano --[[User:Ghosteh|Ghosteh]] 12:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
-:::::::If obsidian forms and collapses (from rain) there should be warning messages about it. Also collapsing obsidian will not typically displace anything, it will instead hit the floor and shatter back into raw ore which doesn't displace fluids.--[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
+:::::::If obsidian forms and collapses (from rain) there should be warning messages about it. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
-::::::::It's what happens when something causes the volcano to think that the layer above the magma surface is part of the pipe causing it to try and refill to that level, sometimes a site gens such that the top layer of the volcano gets eroded causing the 'pipe' area to extend beyond ground level.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 14:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
-== Magma mist ==
-Can someone find an appropriate place for a link to the magma mist article? --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
-:Done. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 15:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Not Scrambling to Safety ==
-My miners are consistently dying when they break into magma. Instead of "scrambling to safety unless submerged in 7/7", the poor fellas are instantly bleeding and torn up. They then proceed to either stay in one place and bleed out, or hobble away a square or two and bleed out... in 1/7 magma. [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 22:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
-:You can make a row of upstairs at the inlet of the magma channel, (5 upstairs should be enough). I've always use this method and yet to see any accident. --[[Special:Contributions/124.120.137.156|124.120.137.156]] 14:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Magma pressure? ==
-In a previous embark in a previous worldgen (.12), I had dug down to the magma sea and channeled into it to prepare to pump magma. Every so often, the tile above the channel would fill with 3-4/7 magma, floading the area around it with 1/7. This wasn't at the top of the sea, and there was magma at the level of and levels above where I was going to build my pump right nearby. No magma creatures were nearby. Magma pressure, a bug with the boundaries of the magam sea, or something else? This would only happen every several game days or so. [[Special:Contributions/208.66.38.13|208.66.38.13]] 17:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
-:I'm getting a "gusher" exactly like this right now. I'm running 0.31.21. (Oh look, my mason assigned to walling it off stood on the wrong side and just… wait, ''bled'' to death? What?) [[User:Eggdropsoap|Eggdropsoap]] 00:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
-::It sounds like you've tapped into a magma pool - just like the magma pipes in 40d, they refill by bubbling magma upward. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:58, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
-== No magma/map diggable to bottom? ==
-I'm running v. .31.16, and I've dug all the way to the bottom of my map without hitting magma (or SMR, or HFS for that matter). Can't scroll down from -23, or designate channels or down stairs. <s>I'm digging to all corners to verify whether other layers/biomes also lack magma</s> Actually, it turns out that the bottom layer of another biome has semi-molten rock as normal. Has anyone else on .16 gotten a map where part of it is diggable all the way to the bottom layer?
-Strangely, z-levels above the terrain behave like they do in the [[Adamantine|Great Adamantine Space Elevator]] (but without the gigantic blue-green spike, sorry! ;-) - while I can't scroll down below z-level -23, I can scroll as high above the terrain as I want to (at least as far as >500 levels above terrain). Anyone else getting this in .16?
-World-gen and embark was done in .31.16 on linux, (although currently the data dir is running on a PC); world_gen.txt is unchanged from .16 distro. Can't remember the exact choices taken in the new .16 world-gen menu, but nothing too weird there. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 06:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Have you ever dig down, trying to get to warm core and failed to get it right away? ==
-This has NOT been mentioned in the main article and created some confusion in my head.. so:
-While digging down for energy source and ''missing'' actual magma pool/sea/pipe/vent/whatever you might encounter two things - '''warm''' stones and '''semi-molten rock''' aside of usual minerals, this is important because if a tile is marked as warm it is bordering ''surface'' of magma and if it is semi-molten - it is next to magma ''below'' the surface. That basically means that if you gt to molten - you are to deep and should retrace z-layers back to find the top of magma body.
-[[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 21:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
-: Not true.  '''Warm''' stones border magma.  It can be in any direction, including up and down, north, south, east, and west, and the diagonals on the horizontal plane.  '''Semi-molten rock''' forms a layer under the magma sea and above [[hell]].  So while finding semi-molten rock does mean the magma sea is above you, finding warm stone doesn't mean you've found the top of the magma sea.  Just that there's magma on the other side of that wall. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 00:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
-:: Not really sure how to piece it together then (bugs perhaps?)... In my case I: a) found no magma between molten rocks and found semi-molten rocks on different z-levels b) found warm stones next (in all possible 26 directions) to magma tiles (i wasn't very clear I guess in definition of "bordering surface of") [[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 18:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
-== Lava not turning to obsidian ==
-I found what seems to be a weird glitch. I arranged a collapse to control a lake that happened to be directly above a layer of magma. I expected the collapse to simply break through the floor and turn two tiles into obsidian. Instead, the two tiles completely refused to cool into obsidian and instead vaporized two entire layers worth of water. I'm wondering if this is because of my collapse, or if it is maybe a property of semi-molten rock which is also present here just below the magma. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 10:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
-== Reactors ==
-For some reason magma won't turn water wheels made of nether-cap, even though it should have both flow and be not on fire. Is this just one of the different properties that magma has to water, or is this something specific?
-==Magma flow?==
-Could somebody explain what tiles marked "Magma Flow" are, and why they refuse to turn into obsidian? EDIT: Thanks! :)
-:A "magma flow" is the upper surface of [[semi-molten rock]]. They actually behave exactly the same as the "magma flow" tiles at the bottom of magma pipes back in 40d - they behave like floors to creatures and liquids, but they behave like chasms to items and cave-ins. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:30, 1 September 2011 (UTC)