Editing v0.31 Talk:Experience

==What is Experience?==
(I'm brand new so let me know if I'm doing something wrong here)
It would be nice if this page had info more on what xp is instead of just details on it. Maybe, how xp is earned, how you know you have earned it, where you can view how much xp a dwarf has earned, ect...  [[User:Zerocyde|Zerocyde]] 08:37, 21 August 2010

==Legendary +1...==
Do we have any proof - or even any hint - that these still exist?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Only in the sense that they *used to* exist.  I left it on the table; if someone else is braver than I, they can remove it until such time as they are proved to exist and matter. [[Special:Contributions/129.2.164.85|129.2.164.85]]
::At least in adventure mode it is possible to have a higher level than 500. I had a wrestler and fighter skill of about [*****/50000], which would be a level of (50000/100(for the experience))-5(for starting experience) which is about level 495. I got this by wrestling a bronze <s>titan</s>colossus after I dropped him into a murky pool. I have still a pic of THAT but not of the experience. I haven't modded the game nor used cheats/hacks. <s>I try to redo that (deleted the save) and make PICS!</s> Not needed you can use the battle arena to do this. Just make a bronze colossus in the water and another creature on the ground above the water. Then attack/wrestle it. You easy get a very high wrestling skill since EVERY attack of wrestling increases wrestling and fighter about 5000-30000 points.
On this topic, I have evidence (if not proof) that Legendary +1 (etc.) exist.  I have two miners, both legendary, but one of whom has been mining for a quite a bit longer, and mines appreciably faster (50% faster or so).  So, there could be other factors at work here, but the obvious answer is Legendary+1. [[User:Rodya mirov|Rodya mirov]]
:Whatever Dwarf Therapist uses for it seems to think so because it's still listed as legandary +x. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 18:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::Technically, skill beyond Legendary wouldn't have any effect on miners, but it '''would''' have an effect on anybody producing goods - a straight Legendary mason would occasionally produce *superior* goods, while Legendary+5 would be strictly ≡exceptional≡ and ☼masterwork☼ goods. Considering this behavior has been present ever since the 2D version, it's '''highly''' unlikely that it would have been removed now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:::It's not been removed - levels 16-20 still show in memory. The effects of levels 16-20 on produced item quality could have changed (but do not appear to based on anecdotal tests of legendary engravers). [[User:Bpuk|Bpuk]] 22:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I second this, tho for a different reason - I've had my broker switch to "administrator" type from "miner" (he is legendary at both, and had just bought about 11k of goods). Give him a pick and set him to mine, soon enough he's back to "miner" type. Despite being legendary in both a few years back. - Nimblewright (forgot to sign in)
:::::I most definitely have a Legendary +5 Gem Cutter, if that means anything.
::::::Why do we still have the verifies? It's in the memory, so I guess we can at least say the skills are 'assumed' to have an effect instead? Also, skills go up to skill 255, after that it either overflows to dabbling (skill 0) or there is code to prevent that (which the disassembler does not show, leading me to believe it does infact overflow). The adventure mode statistics are, memory-wise, correct, but the thing that needs to be verified is wheather those higher skills have '''any''' use. Looking at my craftdwarf's workshops, it seems that the 40d Leg+x skill bonuses still apply, but that may be statistical error. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 21:25, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

==Experience amounts==
The experience amounts listed in this table are wrong. They are not 1..2..3.. etc. They are the same as the 40d table. [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 02:38, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

==Atrophy of skills==
I started a game with a proficient farmer but never planted anything.  I can verify that after 5 game years, my proficient farmer "rusted" to be skilled.  So, I assume he lost experience like Toady noted would be included in this release.   I don't know when exactly it happened, but on those scales it doesn't really bear mentioning.  If you had a legendary it would never really come into play.  I don't know if it even bears mentioning on the page.  Anyone? --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm this. A proficient Bowyer became skilled after years without work. It was after around five years too. Dwarf Therapist shows that the progress of experience of the Dwarf is 0% towards next level. Because he has never worked as Bowyer, it might be that the experience is set to the pevious level with or without the progress. --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 11:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

== Experience, fey moods  and masterwork ==

Hi, I don't have an account here yet so I guess I'm just anonymous, but I noticed that when a dwarf suddenly does a masterpiece their experience level jumps realllly high. I had a Competent Trapper do some Engraving, but then she turned out a series of masterpieces and she became Legendary. She still consistently makes masterpiece engravings; she can even fill an entire announcement page of masterpieces in minutes. 

Another dwarf of mine, a Competent Gem Setter, was hit by a fey mood and constructed an artifact amulet. He became Legendary after that. Couldn't sell the artifact. Wish I could, though; it's worth 72000 DB. --Unnoskol--
:Masterpieces don't boost experience - it's just that Engraving trains up more quickly at higher skill levels, and high skill levels result in more frequent Masterwork products. As for strange moods, a successful mood (provided it wasn't a Possession) grants 20,000 experience points, which is enough to boost to Legendary+1. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
:Well, I also have a Carpenter who reached High Master from Adequate after a string of masterpiece beds. And I also have a Competent Leatherworker who shot up to High Master after a few masterpiece bags. I'm serious; please verify. [[User:Unnoskol|Unnoskol]] 15:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :::::I most definitely have a Legendary +5 Gem Cutter, if that means anything.
 ::::::Why do we still have the verifies? It's in the memory, so I guess we can at least say the skills are 'assumed' to have an effect instead? Also, skills go up to skill 255, after that it either overflows to dabbling (skill 0) or there is code to prevent that (which the disassembler does not show, leading me to believe it does infact overflow). The adventure mode statistics are, memory-wise, correct, but the thing that needs to be verified is wheather those higher skills have '''any''' use. Looking at my craftdwarf's workshops, it seems that the 40d Leg+x skill bonuses still apply, but that may be statistical error. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 21:25, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
-:::::I have several Legendary+5 Dwarves according to Dwarf Therapist, they have yet to produce a single object of less than exceptional quality. So I consider the existance of these skill level pretty much proven.
 ==Experience amounts==
@@ Line 31: / Line 30: @@
 :Masterpieces don't boost experience - it's just that Engraving trains up more quickly at higher skill levels, and high skill levels result in more frequent Masterwork products. As for strange moods, a successful mood (provided it wasn't a Possession) grants 20,000 experience points, which is enough to boost to Legendary+1. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 :Well, I also have a Carpenter who reached High Master from Adequate after a string of masterpiece beds. And I also have a Competent Leatherworker who shot up to High Master after a few masterpiece bags. I'm serious; please verify. [[User:Unnoskol|Unnoskol]] 15:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
-::I put a debugger trap on experience gain and ran a new fort for 5 seasons.{{Version|0.31.12}}&nbsp; I filtered out all gains of 30 points, gains of 10 points associated with mining and engraving, gains of 1 point associated with masonry, and all military and social skills.<br/>The trap caught gains of n*500 to random skills when migrants, merchants, and liaisons were generated, and one gain of 20,000 to carpentry when a strange mood succeeded.  No bonuses for creating or engraving a masterwork were detected.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 06:47, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
-:::As someone unfamiliar with the mechanics behind the system, these numbers mean little to me. Can you explain your conclusions based on this data? --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 19:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
-::::Basically I'm saying that I saw no bonuses related to masterworks.
-::::* Nearly every task completed earns 30 exp.  Catching a fish, failing to catch a fish, crafting a mug, distilling some booze, felling a tree, everything.
-::::* Mining and smoothing/engraving earn 10 exp per tile.
-::::* Large buildings (those which require architecture) earn many 1 point gains during their construction &mdash; I think this is because their construction can be interrupted and resumed by a different dwarf.
-::::* A successful non-possession strange mood results in a 20,000 exp gain to one skill.
-::::* Those, and unit creation, were the only exp gains I saw.
-::::This does not completely refute the possibility of exp bonuses for masterworks, but any hypothetical bonus would need to be the same 30 points as the normal gain, just applied multiple times.  Which seems a very odd way to code it.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 21:36, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
-==Long Patrol duty==
-"† Once soldiers reach this level in a weapon skill, they will become a hero and no longer complain about long patrol duty. "
-I agree with the first part.  The second part seems strange to me.  Have you verified this is the case?  Make a squad of one with a demand for 10 and have a full train schedule?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:56, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
-:I've got a bunch of elite soldiers in my current fortress and none of them are unhappy about long patrol duty. 40d (and 23a) was the same way. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
-::I wanted to see if I could schedule uninterrupted training and mitigate the effects of complaints about long patrol duty, or if I had to include breaks in the schedule. I checked the forums and found [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73043.msg1802550#msg1802550 this], coincidentally written by Quietust, which indicated that not only was a solid training schedule possible, but that at elite level, bad patrol duty thoughts would go away. I also found [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82684.msg2201676#msg2201676 this], which tied the cessation of long duty complaints to reaching Great skill level. The section in the wiki that I linked to regarding heroes also mentioned the effects of reaching Great skill level, but didn't explicitly state that it removed bad thoughts about patrol duty. (Hm, I should add this information to that page.) So, I put 2 soldiers in a squad, set to minimum 2, and had them train constantly, to the point where one of them got depressed from long patrol duty. When he reached Great level, though, his mood improved and "long patrol duty" no longer showed up in his thoughts. I don't know how long the gap was between him attaining Great level and me checking his thoughts, since I doubt it simply disappearred, but he had enough time to admire new things for it to not appear in his recent thoughts. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 22:56, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
-:::I tried to reproduce the "long patrol duty" and couldn't!  I embarked with 5 axe dwarves and had a squad (5/5 ax) set to train year round.  They never got the "long patrol duty" thought!  What specifically do you have to do to get that bad thought?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
-::::Using a new fortress, I once again had 2 soldiers, minimum 2 active, training full-time starting in late spring. I checked their thoughts at the beginning of each month and they began grumbling about long patrol duty in early autumn, four months after training started. They achieved Great skill in mid-autumn, and no longer had long patrol complaints in their recent thoughts by early winter. My soldiers were engaged in regular training with no actual battles during this time; did you use a danger room and/or send your soldiers out to kill wildlife or defend against snatchers? If so, they may have just skilled up faster than mine and reached Great in less than four months, which would mean that they didn't have time to get grumpy about long patrol duty. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 14:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
-:::::my ax dwarves trained continuously and I did try the danger room.  Boy, danger rooms are really effective!  The dwarf went from proficient to great in no time at all! Due to the "loosing all labors" bug, I want to avoid having "great" military.  Can I design a schedule to avoid the "long patrol duty" bad thought, or do I need to manually move them from active/training to inactive?  Lets say I have <great ax dwarves who have been training for three months.  If they go off duty a month, when they go back on duty will they get the "long patrol duty" bad thought after a months time?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:18, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
-::::::Your main goal seems to be having a military below Great skill level so that they can retain their civilian labors without getting bad thoughts from long patrol. Does that mean you plan to retire your veterans before they become elite and continually train up new troops? I tend not to put anyone in the military whose civilian skills I want to keep in order to avoid this issue. Anyway, I haven't done much experimenting with active vs. inactive schedules; with a fully active schedule, my soldiers were free of long patrol complaints for three months, but the bottom of the [[Thought#Unhappy Thoughts|unhappy thoughts list]] says that complaints about long patrol duty happen after only one month. My suggestion, then, is to form three squads and set the first to be inactive every other month, the second to be inactive after every two months, and the third to be inactive after three months and see which one can go the longest without patrol bad thoughts. Once you figure out the sweet spot for your dwarves, you should be able to set a final schedule for the squads without needing to manually switch them back and forth. If they go off duty before generating a long patrol bad thought, I think they are fine when they return to duty without any accumulated ill will, but I haven't tested this. If you already have Great skill level dwarves, though, be aware that [[Soldier#Heroes|heroes]] apparently get a very bad thought from being removed from duty.--[[User:Cali|Cali]] 02:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
-:::::::You are correct, I prefer to have a national guard style army.  Typically I have them train as marksdwarves on their own time (if they have good ethics).  Then, once they are decent at that I'll move them into another area.  If you move them around between weapons, they can be legendary at shield/armor before ever hitting great at a weapon skill. I didn't realize that hammerdwarves are seriously unbalanced, though.  Have you noticed that?  I do have several heros (on accident) this time, though.  My heros go off duty all the time, and I haven't noticed any bad thoughts. Maybe because they are legendary in their civilian jobs? I'll set up the schedules like you suggested and see what the sweat spot is.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 03:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
-::::::::I favor edged weapons for my military so I have little experience with hammerdwarves. I also don't take my heroes off duty and was basing my caution solely on what was stated on that page. I think your theory has merit, though; I wouldn't be surprised if that was an additional benefit of being legendary. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 04:12, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
-== XP gain chart ==
-Should the XP gain chart in the 40d article be copied over to this one? [[Special:Contributions/70.231.247.165|70.231.247.165]] 18:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
-:As the person who found <strike>most</strike> many of the values, I would recommend not.  Instead, a paragraph stating that almost every task gains 30 exp, with mining and smoothing gaining 10, and military tasks having variable gains, would do the trick.  It's pretty obvious that experience gain ''still'' hasn't been tuned.  If and when, we'll want a table, but IMO a table with all 30's is unnecessary detail.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 16:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)