Editing v0.31 Talk:Embark

==Discussion==
* could not replicate the "double fish crash"


Never embark without elves or goblins. Elves bring superawesome animals ( I made a giant forest spider which is like the giant cave spider just in a forest and the elves brought me three of them in the second year) and various plants like whip vine and sunberries. And goblins, well, they make Fun.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 19:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
: I'll second that. You gotta have hostiles, unless you want a peaceful farming town or a megaproject on an island. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

==Less soil doesn't mean more stone and minerals.==
Whoever added this is wrong. The number of z-levels before you reach the magma sea is highly variable. You could have three soil layers and still have 100 z-levels before you hit bottom. Or you could have no soil and only 40 z-levels. The amount and type of minerals available is much more a function of the types of layers, not the number. For instance, a million layers of basalt won't get you any iron, but a few layers of limestone will get you a ton. I'm removing this, sorry whoever added it. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]]

==Play Now, Fisherdwarf==
I just did a "Play Now!", and my Fisherdwarf does NOT have any social skills (just Novice Fisherdwarf), but he was still assigned as the Expedition Leader and I can assign labors just fine.  Also, it's highly likely that the listed Dabbling skills were learned immediately '''after''' embarking, while said dwarf was talking to the others. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Play Now, worldgen titles?==
It's suggested that the initial 7 dwarves can come from worldgen. Some actual proof of this claim (e.g. savegame) would be nice. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)


==Verification==
"Fish are double-listed in the embark items screen. If you choose both fish the game will crash.Verify"

:This is false; I've embarked with two separate barrels of cave lobsters twice now. I'm deleting this from the article. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Ya that's BS.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 18:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Hmm, I added that because it was on the "Known bugs" page. I'll go remove it from that then, as it seems this is false.

== No trade ==

Some of the civilizations in my embark screen have a "no trade" tag. What does it mean? --[[Special:Contributions/151.49.233.194|151.49.233.194]] 13:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

* they won't send any caravan --[[Special:Contributions/94.217.127.76|94.217.127.76]] 14:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

==make up your mind..==
* "'''Don't Really Need That''' - unless you have tailored your embark for metal production quick and early, '''''an anvil is unnecessary''''' and the 100 points you get from refunding it can be better spent on skills or additional foodstuffs"
* "'''Yes, I Do Need That''' - '''''never leave without an anvil''''', since nothing guarantees the first caravan will even have one for sale. 
which one is it...? do, or don't?--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 14:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:Doesn't matter, as they are different strategies.  For me, an anvil is not a necessity. I've embarked plenty (mostly due to bugs!) and it seems like the items the first caravan brings are always the same, and include a steel and iron anvil.  The first traders in 40d seemed to bring a lot more random stuff.  Anybody?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

::I've had several maps where no dwarven caravan EVER showed up (thus no anvil to buy)!  I don't know if this is intended or why it happens, but it does happen from time to time.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

==Size of embark squares==
Not sure if this is noted anywhere on the wiki, but I think it might be useful to know that a single square on embark equates to a 48 by 48 square in fortress mode.  Useful if you need to know a minimum size embark for that megaproject you're cooking up. [[User:Jjdorf|Jjdorf]] 22:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
: So the minimum embark of 2x2 is sized 96x96. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== "Bone carving is next to worthless"? ==

I'm curious why Proteus feels bone carving is "next to worthless".  Did he simply mean worthless as an embark skill, given that you'll quickly level it up?  Or does he not churn out thousands upon thousands of dwarfbucks worth of bone/horn crafts to trade to the elves, and hundreds of bone bolts for hunters/military, like I do? --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 12:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
: Wood, stone and metal are easier to come by than bones. Bone bolts are probably as bad as the wooden ones. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:: I wouldn't say it's harder to get bone, a single hunter killing large critters produces way more bone than even 2-3 crafters can use up.--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Bone carvers are tremendous. When carvers are ordered to make bones, they make five for each bone in the stack, one job at a time. A single draltha can yield hundreds of training bolts! Anyone who thinks bone carving is next to worthless is missing out. Bone bolts are fully capable of killing goblins, too. [[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 21:20, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Embark with trolls ==

After downloading the most recent version of DF (0.31.12) I generated a new world and embarked on a site found with the tool.
While i was examining my "dwarves", preparing for the embark, i noticed in the description that they were "huge humanoid monster with coarse fur, large tusks and horns"...
Confused, I confirmed the embark nonetheless, but after striking the earth my "dwarves" were represented by the letter T, their description was the one usually given to trolls, and it seems like I could butcher them...
It seems like i embarked with seven trolls instead of Dwarves! I assume it is a bug, right? --[[Special:Contributions/151.49.255.40|151.49.255.40]] 13:20, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Discussion==
+* could not replicate the "double fish crash"
 Never embark without elves or goblins. Elves bring superawesome animals ( I made a giant forest spider which is like the giant cave spider just in a forest and the elves brought me three of them in the second year) and various plants like whip vine and sunberries. And goblins, well, they make Fun.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 19:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 : I'll second that. You gotta have hostiles, unless you want a peaceful farming town or a megaproject on an island. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
-I've had an Idea that I want to add to the embark strategies, and I'm wondering if I should add it.
-Cheap Eggs and meat
-Embark with a large number of female birds and a single nest box, or the materials to build one). Then allow each bird to lay their eggs and which will then be claimed by dwarves. After all the eggs have been harvested you can then butcher all of the hens for additional meat, and bones. Note: You will have to cook the eggs for them to be edible, but this is still an easy way to get quick food.
--[[User:blorx1|blorx1]]
-July 2011
-Good idea, but why not make it Geese or Turkeys? // Bill
-== Layers on Embark Screen ==
-Looks like you can no longer see the specific layers of soil and stone on embark.  In .31.19 you just get a general description of what sort of geology is at the site.  "Clay," "soil," "flux stone," and "metals" along with some description of how deep and how abundant they are is what I've seen. [[User:Octorok|Octorok]] 22:08, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 ==Less soil doesn't mean more stone and minerals.==
 Whoever added this is wrong. The number of z-levels before you reach the magma sea is highly variable. You could have three soil layers and still have 100 z-levels before you hit bottom. Or you could have no soil and only 40 z-levels. The amount and type of minerals available is much more a function of the types of layers, not the number. For instance, a million layers of basalt won't get you any iron, but a few layers of limestone will get you a ton. I'm removing this, sorry whoever added it. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]]
-:That was me, and I meant the variety of different stone layers, not the total number of z-levels they span.  Does it so there can be a greater variety of layers than shown? [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 00:45, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
-:: Absolutely. The embark screen only shows the first eight layers. There can be more below.<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]]</small>
 ==Play Now, Fisherdwarf==
 I just did a "Play Now!", and my Fisherdwarf does NOT have any social skills (just Novice Fisherdwarf), but he was still assigned as the Expedition Leader and I can assign labors just fine.  Also, it's highly likely that the listed Dabbling skills were learned immediately '''after''' embarking, while said dwarf was talking to the others. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
-:Yeah, that part about the Dabbling skills is true, since as soon as you embark, your dwarves are doing nothing, which means they start to chat about (presumably) the weather, and their favorite kind of rock. Since you need 1 experience for Dabbling in a skill, they immediately get social skills. --[[User:Drakon136|Drakon136]] 03:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 ==Play Now, worldgen titles?==
 It's suggested that the initial 7 dwarves can come from worldgen. Some actual proof of this claim (e.g. savegame) would be nice. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 ==Verification==
-* could not replicate the "double fish crash" <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LemonFrosted|LemonFrosted]]</small>
 "Fish are double-listed in the embark items screen. If you choose both fish the game will crash.Verify"
@@ Line 41: / Line 23: @@
 ::Ya that's BS.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 18:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
-::Hmm, I added that because it was on the "Known bugs" page. I'll go remove it from that then, as it seems this is false.<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Garanis|Garanis]]</small>
+::Hmm, I added that because it was on the "Known bugs" page. I'll go remove it from that then, as it seems this is false.
 == No trade ==
@@ Line 57: / Line 39: @@
 ::I've had several maps where no dwarven caravan EVER showed up (thus no anvil to buy)!  I don't know if this is intended or why it happens, but it does happen from time to time.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
-:::I think the dwarven caravan not appearing is because your parent civilization died during worldgen. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 14:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
-::Several days ago (playing 0.31.18) my first dwarven caravan didn't bring any anvil. It's not so unusual.--[[User:WwWraith|WwWraith]] 22:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 ==Size of embark squares==
@@ Line 78: / Line 57: @@
 Confused, I confirmed the embark nonetheless, but after striking the earth my "dwarves" were represented by the letter T, their description was the one usually given to trolls, and it seems like I could butcher them...
 It seems like i embarked with seven trolls instead of Dwarves! I assume it is a bug, right? --[[Special:Contributions/151.49.255.40|151.49.255.40]] 13:20, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
-== Armor user ==
-Is there any advantage in leveling armor user before embarking? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:91.10.249.49|91.10.249.49]]</small>
-:The dwarf in question can use armor (as in, "not shields") better.  Since you'd have to buy a bunch of armor to protect said dwarf... I think Shield User and Dodger are both better skills - the one requires only a shield, while the other needs no gear. Or you could go for more offense and add Fighter skill to your chosen melee weapon skill. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 14:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
-== .19 update ==
-can someone update this for the new finder?
-== Function overlap: Starting Builds ==
-The entire prepare carefully section is a duplication in function, if not form, of [[Starting Build]].  I'm going to rationally disperse the information between the two and do the relevant merging. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:30, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
-== "You can start your fortress with just 118☼ worth of items" ==
-''You can start your fortress with just 124 118☼ worth of items (iron anvil - 100☼, 3 copper nuggets for 2 picks and an axe - 18☼; logs can be gathered from deconstructing the wagon - 0☼).''
-I just tried this, but there was no fire-safe stone to make the forge. Unless I'm missing something, this should be corrected. --[[Special:Contributions/189.34.50.57|189.34.50.57]] 00:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
-:My understanding, though I've never tried it, is that you use the ash from burned wood to construct the forge. --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 04:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
-In my opinion this struggling for "you can start with less or lesser items" is a stupid thing. First of all, you can start with no items at all and still create a functional fortress. You'd just use the logs of the wagon to create at last one training axe (or more) and chop down trees to create everything of wood until you can buy picks from a caravan or everything needed to create them. The second point is, it is not necessary. You have enough points to give all your dwarves maximum skills and will still be able to by what you need. And last, but not least: The oly reason not to start with nothing at all is to be independent from caravans. But, you will not need two picks, because one is enough to find ore you can use to produce more...--[[User:Kami|Kami]] 08:47, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
-== Choosing a civilization ==
-The article currently says, ''"There is just ONE BIG RULE: ... Your home civilization will need more than one dwarven place on the map."''
-But there's no explanation of how to determine the size of the available civs. I don't see any relevant information on the articles for [[Civilization]] or [[Location]], either. Can someone who knows more about this flesh it out, please? --[[User:Hanibal Barcalounger|Hanibal Barcalounger]] 01:56, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
-:Before finishing up when genning the world, export the world information ({{k|p}} IIRC). Then in regionXX-world_sites_and_pops.txt, you can look up each dwarven civilization presented to you to choose from, to see if they're still alive (i.e. have any dwarven population at all). Also in regionXX_-world_history.txt, whether they have a living monarch. That or Legends mode. [[Special:Contributions/218.186.8.11|218.186.8.11]] 09:42, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
-== One fuel, not two ==
-(even with magma) "you'll be cutting down two trees and burning them to make charcoal for every unit of hematite you are lucky enough to find."
-Not so. Yes, it takes one fuel to get pig iron, and one fuel to get from pig to steel, but those 2 fuel consume 2 iron bars from 2 hematite, and produce 2 steel. So using magma, 100 iron ore + 100 flux + 100 fuel = 100 steel. Without magma, 300 fuel = 100 steel (the same 100 as before, plus power for 200 smelting jobs). I'd change it, but the error has been there for ages (at least a year) without correction, so someone please check me on this. [[Special:Contributions/218.186.8.11|218.186.8.11]] 09:42, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
-:I Agree. The "fuel" is either a carbon source or a power source.
-:ore + power (magma or coke or charcoal) => iron
-:iron + flux + carbon (coke or charcoal) + power  => pig iron
-:iron + pig iron + flux + carbon + power => 2 steel
-:So, combining the above:
-:2 ore + 2 flux + 2 carbon + 4 power => 2 steel
-:So with magma for power, 2 "fuel" produce 2 steel from 2 ore (and 2 flux), or one "fuel" per iron ore. Without magma its 6 "fuel" to make 2 steel, or 3 "fuel" per ore. [[User:Khearn|Khearn]] 23:56, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
-:I've updated the page with the correct numbers. [[User:Khearn|Khearn]] 00:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)