Editing User talk:Ziusudra

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<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>
--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:52, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

== Key template ==

Thanks for fixing up some occurrences of {{k|<}} and {{k|>}} - it turned out that the issue was caused by [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Key/0&diff=252980&oldid=198967 this change] that I made to {{tl|key/0}}, which I've fixed. I'm probably also going to undo some of your changes in an attempt to make things clearer for editors - &amp;lt; and &amp;gt; are fine with me, but I had to look up what &amp;#8203; was, and I'd rather use <nowiki>{{k|<}} and {{k|>}}</nowiki> in most cases if they work. But thank you for tracking down and fixing all of the pages that you did! &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:45, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
* Seconded! (and said as much in a couple edit summaries.)  Btw, &amp;#8203;, aka "number space", is a great tool. Just used it recently to force a bit more space in a table header to make the data in the cells in that column format more cleanly. [[User:Albedo|Albedo]] ([[User talk:Albedo|talk]]) 00:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 Thanks for fixing up some occurrences of {{k|<}} and {{k|>}} - it turned out that the issue was caused by [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Key/0&diff=252980&oldid=198967 this change] that I made to {{tl|key/0}}, which I've fixed. I'm probably also going to undo some of your changes in an attempt to make things clearer for editors - &amp;lt; and &amp;gt; are fine with me, but I had to look up what &amp;#8203; was, and I'd rather use <nowiki>{{k|<}} and {{k|>}}</nowiki> in most cases if they work. But thank you for tracking down and fixing all of the pages that you did! &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:45, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Seconded! (and said as much in a couple edit summaries.)  Btw, &amp;#8203;, aka "number space", is a great tool. Just used it recently to force a bit more space in a table header to make the data in the cells in that column format more cleanly. [[User:Albedo|Albedo]] ([[User talk:Albedo|talk]]) 00:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
-== Go forth, now, and edit! ==
-A comment from 2009?! iirc the wiki and forums used the same account system back then, probably what triggered the auto comment, either way the wiki legends mode marks you as an historic figure!
-Anyway, I have noticed that you have been updating [[Adventure mode quick start]] if you like rewrites, any chance you can take on [[Quickstart guide|Fortress Mode Quickstart Guide]] or [[Dwarf fortress mode]]?--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:15, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
-:I am much less experienced and confident with fort mode - havn't played it in months and didn't play much even then. Afaik, the wiki has always been a community administrated project and the forum and wiki hav never shared any account details - although, my first post on the forum is from 2007 and my first on the wiki isn't until 2017, so I could be wrong. [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 21:58, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
-:: or my recollection is wrong, it has been a long time. Anyway, if things change we could use someone who can do page wide rewrites, less experience might be a boon, offering a better perspective for what is needed on a quickstart guide for example --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:45, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
-== Size ==
-I think what's going on with the [[Size]] and [[Weight]] pages is that, internally, the game '''divides''' the specified value by 10 before storing it in its data structures, then it multiplies it by 10 when calculating actual weight. I took this into account when filling in the "volume" values on the Weight page (which is why its formula lacks the "* 10" ''and'' mentions the rounding down to the nearest multiple of 10), and I'm guessing the same thing happens with creature sizes. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 16:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
-:I think I found what is causing part of my confusion: IRL 600 cm³ of iron would weigh about 4.7 kg, but in game a bar of iron is shown as weighing 47Γ ... so either a DF bar really is 6000 cm³ '''or''' the game's Γ is equivalent to 100 g, not 1 kg as initially claimed [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Weight&diff=prev&oldid=102326 here].
-:But then in adv mode I killed a dwarf and the corpse is 89Γ, even though the size_cur is 6617 (and his head exploded) ... since the game is probably calculating a density from the layers (or adding up the weight of the layers, etc) 1359.6 kg/m³ is not that far off. So since the 89Γ is close enough to what a real human would weigh in kg, then a Γ is equivalent to a kg, and a bar really would be 6000 cm³.
-:From that and some web searching, some already known and verified things:
-:* 1 Γ = 1 kg
-:* densities in raws are in kg/m³ ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density#Various_materials])
-:* {{token|BODY_SIZE|c}} values in raws are in cm³ ([https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=average+volume+of+human+body])
-:* The values in the table on [[Weight]] are in cm³
-:* The values in the table on [[Size]] are also in cm³
-:* volumes of items and creatures are stored as 1/10th
-:And thus:
-:* The "* 10" on Size is not needed
-:* The size of a bar is 6000 cm³, not 600 cm³
-: I'm gonna think a bit more before making changes. [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 08:08, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
-:: Maybe this report {{bug|11772}} (from before your changes to the values on [[Weight]]) wasn't completely wrong, except the densities are correct and only some things are 10× bigger than they should be. Like the bars, or seeds, a 100 cm³ spherical seed would be 5.75 cm (2.26 in) in diameter, and seeds are larger than plant growths. And cut gems are larger than large gems. [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 12:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
-:::Where exactly did you see that Bars were only 600cm³? In the game code, item_barst::base_volume() does indeed return 600, but on the [[Weight]] page I documented it as having a volume of 6000 so that the weight calculation (where Γ ''does'' mean kilograms) doesn't need an extra multiplication by 10. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 13:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
-::::[[Bar]] and [[Size]], both also hav an incorrect capacity for bins. [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 13:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
-:::::It looks like the [[Storage]] page also has all of its capacities off by a factor of 10, likely to make things line up with the extra *10 on the Size page. For example, it lists Minecarts as having a capacity of 50000, even though the raws clearly specify "[CONTAINER_CAPACITY:500000]". I suspect a major overhaul is in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 15:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)