Editing 40d Talk:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock

Interesting color to help the newbies for things that have no other use.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=Color Column=
I think breaking out the color into a separate column (perhaps featuring a block of the actual color) would be very useful. Thoughts? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 17:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:That would be kinda awesome. Any chance someone could could do a breakdown of "How to find"? I've had 12 different embark sites, and I can't for the life of me find one with bauxite... [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Color columns: +1.  Do it! You could also just copy/past the tiles from the original table on the [[stone]] page - that would be even better, more info. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[Bauxite]] has a chance of being in any [[Sedimentary layer]].--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=How to Find=
:Re "How to Find" - that would be a diff article, but maybe another we need. This is NOT intended as a guide to everything about the rocks! This is uses for rock - for newbies - so KISS is the rule. Important associations and significance when a new stone is discovered, ''not'' where to find them or why they are not so valuable. Other articles are expected to have "complete info", and newbies should get used to doing their own simple research if they are interested. Trying to include minor info will clutter this sort of presentation, which is fairly large as it stands. For now, click [[bauxite]], read that page, look at the relationships, click those links - figure it out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::This is also going to be irrelevant in later versions due to more rocks having realistic melting temperatures and therefore more magma safe.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::I didn't intend to ask for a complete guide, just enough that I could target my exploration efforts to where it could actually be. Is the standard way of finding things really "Exploratory mining throughout all areas of all biomes that could contain it"? (Or reveal.exe?) Even showing all features in the map, I don't know of a better way to find coal, much less adamantine. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Added a basic "how to", not a complete guide. And yes, that's it - there's no magic to it.  There is a bit of local knowledge re what layers/stones might contain what, and depending on what you're looking for (layers, features, large clusters, veins, small clusters) the exact choice of tactics for the exploratory mining varies, but yeah - you dig blind until you stumble upon what you're looking for.  That's how "mining" works (in the absence of Reveal.)

:::Example: For coal: We know it's in sedimentary, we know it's a vein, and we know (from [[vein|veins & clusters]] that a vein covers about 3-4 tiles wide and rarely goes in a straight line. So a shaft-grid every 6 tiles is bound to stab into it or right next to it, either of which will reveal it. We also know that area blocks are 48x48.  So once we find an area block with a sedimentary layer, we count and find its borders, and dig our starting shaft in 6 diagonal from one corner - and we find out how deep those sedimentary layers go.  Then maybe 12 diagonal in from that, and then 12 and 12 more across the block, from one corner to the other.  That's 4 shafts in a diagonal across the whole thing.  4 more form a "cross" on the other diagonal if we want. At most, that's 16 to pepper the whole thing at 12-tile intervals - just to start, to get a feel for "what's down there".  If we find a large cluster of cheap stone in the middle, we ignore that whole central area and stick to the edges - no sense digging in the middle of a large cluster of microcline, at least not on that [[z-level]]. (And we know from that veins & clusters page that a "large cluster" is about 20x40 - nice big area to avoid.)  From there, if we have to, we fill in with a 6-wide pattern to search where we want.  If that doesn't find it, either we're incredibly unlucky, or it's not in that block and we move on to the next one.

:::And that's mining, RL and DF.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::::And here I am, thinking you were keeping the arcane knowledge secret. I thought that there was some equivalent of exploratory and mining ''geology'' to be had. (E.G. x forms near boundary between Y and Z) RL geology has elements of "Figure out where it is" and "Look for it" too, but modern geology leans more toward "Figure out where it is" then "Dig shafts everywhere". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I won't say there isn't - just no one's noticed/deciphered it (or if they have they're not talking). Toady has some skill at both geology and simulation - what elements he's incorporated, and how that is presented in the game, I have no idea.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

==Column Size==
The sizes of the columns are rather excessive, especially Aluminum, bauxite, and magnetite.  Also includes some unnecessary humor.  Bad jokes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:Edit - I missed [[Lamp]]'s earlier edits - just came here and saw your comments. After a series of edits, it's back to where it should be. I hope.
:Lamp - your changes were not consistent with the text of the rest of the article, nor the layout of other stones.  There are 4 "value" categories for metals - low, mid, high, and highest (2, 10, 30 & 40).  The diff between 30 & 40 is only 33% - significant enough for a rough distinction, and that's all this article is presenting - a new-comer's rough understanding.  Adamantine is clearly explained as "not exactly a metal", w/ additional emphasis on its value.  --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Purpose of Article?==
What was the original purpose of this article?  I get this feeling that some of what is here, although useful, is not part of the original purpose. I might be wrong.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:As defined in the opening paragraph of this article (''always a good place to look, at least to start)'', if a new user strikes X type of rock, this article will tell them whether it's valuable or not. So, at a base level, it gives a''' basic idea of the uses of that rock''' - so you've struck microcline or platinum or rhyolite or obsidian, so what?.  That has necessarily broadened a bit to add a ''minimum'' understanding of concepts like "material value" and "smelting", without which the comments might be largely meaningless.

:Since it's a wiki, some small latitude should be allowed - but we're not here to tell people where to find rock, nor what the obscure implications are between a layer and rocks within that and the gems within those - just "What does this rock mean?" at a basic level.  What you need to know the first day you play.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

::In other words, what should be in the quick-start rules of the manual. It's hard to get new alpha testers when the bar to entry is too high. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 04:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== note on consistency ==

Nice page, but a few things:  

No time to edit myself, so I will just jot it down now.

Need consistency in ore ratings.  Aluminum is "high" platinum is "highest" but they're the same value, no?  Also see the iron ores.  Oh and then Adamantine is "THE highest".  In my opinion, Gold should be "high", Platinum and Aluminum "very high" and Adamantine "highest".

Just a pet peave, but please use proper spelling.  "Altho" is not proper spelling.

Good work.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 22:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Mechanism Error? ==

In the extra note on bauxite, it states that mechanisms may only be made out of stone. This is not the case however, metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge. Not only that, raw adamantine(a rock) can be made into mechanism too. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: it also would be a good idea to mention that adamantine must be made into strands and then into wafers, and it takes 3x as many wafers as it would bars.
 ...metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge...
:Since when?  Mine lists only the 5 trap weapons.  You using a mod? (''Adamantine'' mechs, yes, but that's advanced stuff imo. Could add for accuracy, I guess.)
:And don't look now, but "a rock" ''is'' stone.  This is not a complete guide to everything about anything listed here - this is a ''basic'' guide about types of stone, for newer players.  "Adamantine is really valuable" - nuff said as far as that's concerned.  Any additional comment would only be incomplete and open more doors to more details.  We're trying to avoid sprawl and redundancies.  If they want more, they should go to that article, that's what the links are for.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I was pointing out that raw adamantine WAS a stone and it states bauxite is the magma safe rock. And if its a "basic" we should at least add that adamantine can be used to construct anything but beds.(others?) [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 18:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
::Mmmmm - The way I see it, I don't think there's anything "basic" about adamantine.  By the time they find that, hopefully, they'll be past this guide, and know to look it up.  For example... how long were you playing before you actually had some raw adamantine staring you and your miners in the face? If you were on the wiki, did you assume it was "just like everything else", or did you look it up, then or long before?  There are enough comments ("Adamantine is not exactly a metal", etc), to give them the clue. Imo. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

=Ore Uses=
Wouldn't it be appropriate to list the ores uses?  Specifically 'Weapons and Armor', 'Crafts', and 'Special'(for Adamantine)
[[User:Granite26|Granite26]] 18:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
:I don't think so. The ores link to their smelted metals. If you want to know more about the metal, you can check the metal page. This page is about rocks. --[[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 18:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

==Adamantine==

So is adamantine itself not considered a spoiler?