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Editing v0.34 Talk:Bolt

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There used to be an exploit wherein encrusting bolts with gems gave them enormous value boost because decoration value is counted for every bolt in stack. As I get it, Toady fixed it by setting value multiplier for bolt decorations to 1/3 instead of 10. Should be this mentioned somewhere? Also, if you manage to get a stack of more than 30 bolts, this is still an issue - e.g., for bolts[60] decorations value is doubled. --04:17, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 
There used to be an exploit wherein encrusting bolts with gems gave them enormous value boost because decoration value is counted for every bolt in stack. As I get it, Toady fixed it by setting value multiplier for bolt decorations to 1/3 instead of 10. Should be this mentioned somewhere? Also, if you manage to get a stack of more than 30 bolts, this is still an issue - e.g., for bolts[60] decorations value is doubled. --04:17, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 
== This armor is useless! ==
 
 
I did some arena testing of the number of hits required to kill unarmed dwarf "targets".  In all tests, I placed 224 targets, filling all squares adjacent to the 3-wide moat, and the opposite sides I place 242 shooters (I placed a few extra shooters by the "bridge" on the right side).  I then let the arena run until all targets were dead, and counted up the total number of hits (counted the word "flying" in gamelog.txt).
 
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
! Ammo
 
! Armor
 
! Dwarf Targets
 
! Hits
 
! Hits/kill
 
|-
 
| copper
 
| adamantine
 
| 224
 
| 3985
 
| 17.8
 
|-
 
| copper
 
| copper
 
| 224
 
| 3819
 
| 17.1
 
|-
 
| copper
 
| none
 
| 224
 
| 3894
 
| 17.4
 
|}
 
 
The numbers speak for themselves - armor is completely useless against even copper bolts.  There is no significant difference between any of the results - I think the small differences are just due to random statistics.  I will try to test this with a few more combinations, and maybe repeat a few of the tests for more statistics, but my preliminary results have pretty much confirmed my suspicion that armor does nothing against metal bolts.  This just leaves the question, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoDL4KlxvY why do we even wear it] :P ? --[[User:Pirate Bob|Pirate Bob]] 20:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 
For more science you could mod a little and test again. For example mod the bolts to blunt attack and see if it has any differences in piercing adamantine. Or make the contact area larger. Also I recall an old [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89997.msg2488474#msg2488474 experiment]about weight affecting bolts, the result was no significant difference. So there is a paradox: if we accept that weight has no effect,  the pine bolts show meterial sharpness has some effect, while the variant metal bolts show that sharpness has little to no effect. So I advice do the experiment again with silver and adamantine bolts. --[[User:Lcy03406|Lcy03406]] 04:45, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I have tried silver and adamantine bolts, and neither are ever deflected by copper armor.  I will post details if I have time, but posting to the wiki is rather cumbersome - I think I may start a forum post for more involved discussion, as this is proving more complicated that I initially expected.  I believe that the main thing that determines armor penetration and damage is kinetic energy.  A bow/crossbow applies a force of 1000 (units?), over some fixed distance (which is not indicated in the raws), such that the energy applied does not depend on mass.  However, there is also a maximum bolt speed of 1000 (units?), so if a bolt is very light (i.e. wood) its kinetic energy will just be its mass times 1000^2.  I also found that copper blowdarts are never deflected by steel armor, and was unable to find any manipulation of the raws which would allow projectiles to be defected regularly but still do modest damage to unarmored targets.  In particular, increasing the contact area to 20 just makes bolts *more* deadly, as they start to sever limbs etc, and are still never deflected by armor.  I am unsure if what Toady changed about bolts has anything to do with the raws, but I noticed that on the DF2010 wiki page is says the raws changed in 0.31.09, and it gives different values for the raws than used currently, so I'll have to try the old values.  Anyway, I have lots of data, but still far less than I would like, and I need to figure out a better way to discuss it, and perhaps get more people involved in collecting/analyzing it. --[[User:Pirate Bob|Pirate Bob]] 17:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 
At the suggestion of a friend, I wrote a script which automatically tests every armor/ammo combination, so after I finish analyzing the results of that I will post complete results.  Only surprise was that adamantine deflects adamantine 100% of the time, but no other armor/ammo combination produced any deflections. --[[User:Pirate Bob|Pirate Bob]] 12:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 
 
My results have proven somewhat complex, and I felt a forum thread might be a better place for detailed discussion.  I was also pleased to find that Zivilin had just posted similar results, so I added mine to his thread: [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=116151.0]--[[User:Pirate Bob|Pirate Bob]] 15:55, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 

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