Editing v0.31 Talk:Attribute

Why is Agility on the attribute page, but every other attribute has its own page?  Should we redirect all the attributes individual pages to here and condense information, or put links here and give agility its own page? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
:You know, screw it, the page proliferation is ridiculous, I'm consolidating. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
::Here are strings for mental attributes:
(snipped since they're in article)
::[[User:Denspb|Denspb]]
:::Well, someone saw these and added them while i was screwing around trying to extract them from my dwarves... lol.  Thanks, and pardon the snipping, but it was big --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
(Because we have newbie editors who don't bother to think of the larger picture or look at the old wiki as a pattern. [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#B|'''B''' is for '''Be Bold''']], Squirrelloid - you're doin' great!)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

==Experience?==
Are attributes no longer affected by experience? [[User:Caradhras|Caradhras]] 21:55, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's not been confirmed either way. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:55, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::No, they are no longer affected by experience, my legendary miners did not gain '''any''' experience from the months at work.--[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 02:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
:Ones physical attributes will improve in Adventure mode, especially noticeable between starting with no skills (low to average) versus starting with a full set of skills (high to very high); I don't know if "soul" attributes can improve, but most of the physical ones can.  I imagine it's based on the skill involved, though, so no more ultramighty legendary bookkeepers. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 23:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

::I have heard reports that the military related skills seem to effect body attributes in fortress and adv. modes(I can confirm adv. mode).  Can anyone else confirm the non-military skills don't effect attributes as [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=803 it may be a bug]. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 23:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:I just checked some dwarves made legendary through moods and they have rather high attributes (no negative), mighty, rarely sick etc. I'll need to do a before after the next time a dwarf becomes possessed.

==Impact?==
I imagine that the soul attributes have to have some impact besides looking pretty, but do we have any idea how significant they are? Are creative dwarves better at making items? --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think soul skills do something. They could increase the happy thoughts gained from art (and maybe later from music) or like you said increase chance of better items or for focus they concentrate better on one task/activity and don‘t switch often between tasks, like mining and dumping. --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::I have 2 miners, one with very good focus and one with poor focus. While the first always mines, the other one sometimes walk away from mining, dump a thing, mine a wall again, then haul something around. Also she often picks a wall very far away while the first one picks the wall next to her. --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 08:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The second sounds like the way mining's always chosen the next target tile and path to it.  The first may well be caused by the poor focus trait, and perhaps others like 'likes new experiences'.  I wonder if you could control it by setting mining as her only permitted task.<br/>&mdash;[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 09:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::::If the second is really the normal mining path thing, it is very screwed. Because there is a mining block NEXT to her but she still does it. I somehow think she also gained points in a soul skill. At first her soul skill list was three, full lines long. Now it changed to 2 full lines and a bit in the third line. I am not sure if I remember that right, but it looks like that. Also, all my dwarfs with high focus don't change tasks very often. --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 17:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I usually don't edit the wiki but I though this was too important not to mention. 
Toady has listed all the mental attributes and what skills they affect in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1413312#msg1413312 this post] in his reply to Untelligent. I would edit the article to include these but I didn't want to step on anybody's toads, er, toes.
--[[Special:Contributions/70.89.66.14|70.89.66.14]] 08:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

==Bugs?==
Can anyone check the skill rusting bug section? I've just ran an idle fortress with 2 dwarves being control group. The proficient mason was left completely idle, and the proficient miner was allowed to just attain the great miner status. Then they both were left completely idle, and after an year and few months, I didn't found any downgrades in skills or attributes.

== Which skills train which attributes? ==

Somewhere on the forums I saw a list of which skills give which attributes, but my search has come up with nothing... [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 23:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
:I've been working on this, the list is on the attributes page. --[[User:Knaveofstaves|Knaveofstaves]] 05:19, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

== Other effects of attributes - Note ==

I asked this of toady:

"Is this the only impact these attributes currently have?  Some had guessed that there were other impacts:

Memory: skill gain/rust rates
Focus: how long a dwarf stays at a task
Willpower: possible this relates to tantrums, happiness, insanity, or possibly other effects

Are these: currently in place and working, currently in place and not working, planned, or not planned."

His response:

"Those were the ones I found, and I think that's it.  The guessed uses are not in place and not planned in particular.  I don't think memory should work that way, anyway, at least not for many skills."

[[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:56, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

== Testing attribute gain via skill use ==

df 31.12, with the stat decay removal cheat (i.e. these are absolute changes, in practice also need to remove stat decay from attribute)
single person doing task for 2 month (inclusive of drinking, sleeping etc). all required resources 1 square from workshop, all stats set to 1000 prior to task.

* wood cutter (lvl 0->4): ~40 points per month in str, agility, endurance, willpower, spacial sense, kin sense

* masonry (60 tables, lvl 5->6.5): 40 points per month in str, agility, endurance, creativity, spacial awareness
* herbalism (lvl 5 -> 8): ~32 points per month in agility, memory, kin sense
* mining (900 soil mined, lvl 5->12): ~25 points per month in str, tough, endurance, willpower, spacial sense, kin sense
* Weaver (~30 threads, lvl 5->5.9): 25 points per month in agi, creativity, spacial sense, kin sense
* Clothier (~30 cloaks cloaks, lvl 5->5.9): 25 points per month in agi, creativity, spacial sense, kin sense
* Furnace operator (~30 smelts, lvl 5->5.75): 20 points per month in str, toughness, endurance, analytical reasoning, kinetic sense
* carpentry (95 beds, lvl 5->5.3): 10 points per month in str, agi, spacial sense, creativity
* Idle: ~10 points per month in empathy, socal awareness, linguistics; 3 points per month in agility, kin sense, intuition
* hauling: ~2 points per month in str, tough, endurance, willpower, kin sense

* Furnace operator (lvl 15->17.5): 10 points per month in str, toughness, endurance, analytical reasoning, kinetic sense

Notes:
* ~1 point per month in a number of random stats seen when doing other tasks
* Ability point gain per task completed seems to be scales so that you get less per task at higher skill levels (and it seems to increase faster than the task time goes down tough only tested furnace operator)
* Neither ability point or skill gain seems very well balanced; Ideally both should be for time spent doing a task rather than number of tasks with scaling modifiers, and shoudl probably be more balance over the different jobs.

-- [[User:Drayath|Drayath]] [[Special:Contributions/93.97.24.223|93.97.24.223]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :It's not been confirmed either way. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:55, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 ::No, they are no longer affected by experience, my legendary miners did not gain '''any''' experience from the months at work.--[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 02:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
-::At least they don't seem to rise in fortress mode. My seven legendary miners still have the same attributes as they did in the beginning. A very weak legendary miner is kinda funny, though. --[[User:Egodeus|Egodeus]] 10:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 :Ones physical attributes will improve in Adventure mode, especially noticeable between starting with no skills (low to average) versus starting with a full set of skills (high to very high); I don't know if "soul" attributes can improve, but most of the physical ones can.  I imagine it's based on the skill involved, though, so no more ultramighty legendary bookkeepers. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 23:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 78: / Line 77: @@
 -- [[User:Drayath|Drayath]] [[Special:Contributions/93.97.24.223|93.97.24.223]] 06:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
-== Can't see attributes ==
-I have the current version of Dwarf Fortress. Why can't I see any attributes like Super-Dwarvenly Tough and things like that? None of my dwarves have that tag in the 'v - View units > g' screen. Why not? --[[Special:Contributions/71.180.66.233|71.180.66.233]] 20:14, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
-: They're not supposed to appear in v-g, try v-z-enter. You'll get more prompt answers to questions like this on [[IRC]] or the [[Forums]]. --[[User:Knaveofstaves|Knaveofstaves]] 01:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
-:: I can't find any of the stats shown in this article through my dwarves' Thoughts and Preferences. I can't find their attributes on Dwarf Therapist either, only personality traits like Leadership, Stress, Emotion, Compromising etc... This article seems to be outdated, especially since I can't find a single dwarf with any sort of Strength or Endurance attribute. Or have attributes been hidden from the player altogether? [[Special:Contributions/90.200.81.168|90.200.81.168]] 19:26, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
-::: It turns out that they're hidden in the text; where it says things like 'tires easily' or 'is strong' and things like that. For weak dwarves it's easier to spot; they're in red or something, while stronger dwarves have the traits in a dark green. I still wish they kept the Super-Dwarvenly Tough things like that. Makes everything easier to see. --[[Special:Contributions/71.180.66.233|71.180.66.233]] 21:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
-== Version ==
-I noticed that the note at the bottom of "Skills by associated attributes" is shown to be last updated in 31.18. The section should be verified and updated with any new information. Also, I haven't seen a clear answer to if attributes can be raised in 31.25. [[Special:Contributions/70.231.247.165|70.231.247.165]] 19:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
-== pottery ==
-I've got a game running in the current versoin showing pottery giving creativity. I'm going to let him get grandmaster before I post the final shots though.