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Editing 40d Talk:Workshop

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The rest of this post will be a first draft for the section.  Please keep comments and discussion in indented (use : at the beginning of your post) lines just below this comment, and out of the drafted article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:28, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
 
The rest of this post will be a first draft for the section.  Please keep comments and discussion in indented (use : at the beginning of your post) lines just below this comment, and out of the drafted article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:28, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:In regards to kitchens/butcher shops, whenever possible, I use the "miasma won't go through diagonals" trick instead of doors. Otherwise, you wind up with doors that get stuck open due to pets, items, etc. It gets even worse if your item hauling falls behind and you have to deconstruct a workshop to get its contents to be stockpiled (important if you have spoilable items) and hauled off (Dump and/or funneling stockpiles), resulting in the 4x4 explosion of stacked items. Depending on your point of view, exploting the diagonals may constitute a cheat and it does create a (fairly minimal) space impact adding that off-true wall. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see this article. Getting my workshops running efficiently is one of my biggest bugaboos so far. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:08, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
 
::For miasma in butcher's shops, I usually use a vent and place the butcher's shop in the vent area. Each butchering operation leaves behind a bunch of chunks that stunk up my shops far too frequently. With kitchens, miasma is only an occasional problem, so I would go for the doors as well, if the kitchen is emitting miasma its probably too late to salvage the contents. -[[User:CptFastbreak|CptFastbreak]] 20:20, 10 October 2008 (CET)
 
::Truthfully, the way I usually deal with that stuff is to make sure the kitchens and butcheries are on the top floor, then channel a smokestack up to the surface to make the center hex of the workshop "outside", so I never thought of it too closely.  Throw a quick wall around it to keep enemies out and you'll never even produce miasma.  Anyway, I've yet to see a hauling breakdown with the decentralized idea I've been using for the last 6 fortresses, so I have trouble commenting on that.  If you can, perhaps you might consider adding a note on their causes and effects in the key considerations? --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:25, 10 October 2008 (EDT)<br>
 
This has fallen off the recent 50 and is therefore extremely unlikely to get any more comments.  Thus, I'm going to add it to the article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:41, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 
  
== Redo the production chain image? ==
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===Workshop Design===
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Since workshops are where much of your fortress's day to day work happens, it is important to plan them as carefully as you do your [[Bedroom Design|bedrooms]].  Workshop designs have a couple key considerations:
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* Workshops should be as close as possible to the raw materials needed to do their job (usually via stockpiles).
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* There should be room to put in duplicate workshops, to accomodate spikes in demand for things like beds and barrels (carpentry) or stone furniture (masons).
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* Workshops should be lockable by forbidding doors.  This is important for making sure specific bits of furniture get encrusted with gems (you don't want rubies on a mudstone table while you have a platinum statue around), specific items are made with specific materials (bauxite mechanisms for example), or even just locking a dwarf in a Fell [[strange mood]] away so he won't hurt a useful worker.
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* The design should be expandable.  There will ALWAYS be another specialty workshop you'd find useful, whether it be a single-task, lockable Jeweler, a Legendary-only Carpenter's Workshop for beds, a floor of Dabbling to Proficient-only Masonry workshops for a [[Military#Cross-training_.28starting_a_Reserves_program.29|reserves program]], the list goes on.  Never assume you'll never need another workshop.  You'll always find SOMETHING.
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* The design should have good traffic throughput.  Workshop complexes are pretty high-traffic areas, so you'll need to keep this in mind.
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<br>
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A couple things that may seem like big deals, but really aren't:
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* Being close to where the finished good will go.  You will definitely need to think of where your chairs, tables, prepared meals, and the like will go after they're done being made, but an average fortress has a lot of spare labor and untrained peasants that are qualified for little more than hauling finished goods.  Don't be afraid of putting the prepared food and booze larder 100 steps away from the kitchen and still; just turn off food hauling on your cooks and let the peasants handle it.
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* Setting up resource stockpiles somewhat near where the resource is produced.  Again, the peasants will handle this.
  
I think it could do with cleanup and color. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:12, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
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====Decentralized Workshop Complex====
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Designed for use with the [[Bedroom_Design#Decentralized_Living|decentralized living]] plan, this plan emphasizes fine-grained planning with many small, specific stockpiles and planned workshop quarters.  It therefore requires some micro-management to get going.  However, once you have it working, things work extremely smoothly and you should never have a significant delay in production again.
  
== Re: Workshop Design: Gairabad's shameless self-promotion ==
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[[Image:Workshops.GIF]]
  
I added a bunch of stuff to my [[User:Gairabad|user page]] on workshop layout design.  [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 21:17, 28 November 2008 (EST)
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Total workshop loadout for 1 floor:
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* Sixteen (16) 3x3 workshops
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* Four (4) 4x3 workshops
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* Two (2) 5x5 workshops
  
== Can workshop dwarves haul multiple items at once? ==
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Maximum walk to stockpile on same wing: 18.
  
If a dwarf in a workshop is doing a job requiring multiple materials, will he take one trip to pick up all the materials or multiple trips?  Does the weight of the materials factor in at all?  I'm pretty sure I've seen smelting dwarves take multiple trips.  [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:47, 16 December 2008 (EST)
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The light gray crosses are optional doors.  They can be useful for sealing off a Kitchen or Butcher's Shop to keep [[miasma]] from annoying the neighbors.  Beyond that, the blue field is the stairwell access (recommend separate up stairs and down stairs for safety reasons), and the gray fields are stockpiles.
  
They will always take multiple tripsWeight may only effect how fast those trips are. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:41, 16 December 2008 (EST)
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4x3 workshops are useful for workshops with strange blocked square formations (the Bowyer's shop is an example).  They can also be nice for setting up a tiny 1x2 or 1x3 stockpile for a specific workshop - with bins, this can be a significant reserve of materialImagine a Clothier or Leatherworker with 3 full bins of cloth or leather right next to them.
  
== Gathering Materials ==
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The 5x5 workshops are useful for [[shop]]s, [[kennel]]s, and [[siege workshop]]s.  They can also be useful for making a specialty shop with a few stockpiles designed to accomplish only one thing (encrusting statues with gems, for example).
  
How does a dwarf decide where he gets materials, if they aren't stockpiled?  I have a mason who, when ordered to make anything out of rock, will delve deep into my strip-mining operations, down several Z-levels and quite a lot of walking, to get limestone when said limestone is scattered all over my fortress and is all over the workshop area!  He has to ''walk over'' limestone rocks to get his materials, but for some reason he only wants one specific stone. Is this a bug?  An artifact of pathfinding algorithms?--[[User:Aegeus|Aegeus]] 22:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
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The 3x3 workshops are best organized into wings, where a pair of workshops share a similar function with the pair directly next to them.  They share stockpile space better this way.  When set up correctly, less than 10 dwarves will regularly use each stockpile room, so traffic is a non-issue.  There tends to be a lot of dwarves in the halls, though, because peasant haulers visit the workshops frequently, hence the 3-wide corridors.
  
: I think the algorithm try to find the closest stone, but calculate only by distance, so if a stone is beneath the workshop, it will be only 1 distance away, even if the dwarf have to walk 200 squares to get to the damn stair. I have seen a lot of dwarf not using the stockpile just beside a workshop... I should test that someday. try with a workshop, mine beneath it directly, and then try again with some space around to clear the immediate surrounding of the workshop and the stockpile. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 22:51, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
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Finally, this design offers lots and lots of wall space for smoothing and engravingFree wealth is good.
 
 
::I can assure you that you'll find that the mason will fetch his stone from beneath or above his workshop before doing anything to the sides. Pathfind indeed does not account for Z levels currently, at least when it comes to getting materials. The only way to ensure this won't happen, is to not mine below your shop. A reasonable way to avoid it is to have 3x3 raw stockpile inputs directly above or below your workshops, using multiple Z levels if you want to give more time between refilling the stockpile. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:31, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Workshop Profile Bug? ==
 
 
 
I have a metalsmith forge with the workshop profile set to allow everyone *except* the dungeon master (I’m trying to get my blacksmith’s skills up and don’t want him interfering).  My manager has approved a task of making 20 iron chains, and these tasks have appeared in the workshop’s task list.  I have two dwarves with the “health care” skill and the “blacksmith” skill enabled only (no other skill is enabled).  I have let the simulation run like that for over a season (game time, of course) and no one has started making the iron chainsWhen I change the workshop profile back to “allow all” the Dungeon Master starts the tasks.  I can’t figure out how to get my dwarves to work here.  It’s bizarre.  Anyone know what’s going on or what I can try? --Guest
 
 
 
After doing some more testing I discouvered what is actually happening. If the workshop profile for this workshop (don't know about others) is set to deny *anybody* access, then it will deny *everybody* access.  --Guest
 

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