Editing 40d Talk:Undead

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== "Is used to tragedy"? == 
One question: I had two dwarves that were not always occupied hunt small zombies and skeletons (hoary marmots, mountain goat and such). Apart from getting really good at wrestling, they both seemed to gain "Is used to tragedy" as a character trait. Can anyone confirm that? -- [[User:qwertyu|qwertyu]] 12:34, 9 March 2008 (CET)

:That always happens regardless of what they are killing.

==Pitting problems==
Should we include the fact that attempting to pit undead animals of any kind will result in them attacking the moment they are released, regardless of how close they are to the pit. (They can be right next to it but still attack the pit-ter once they are out of the cages)
--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 07:39, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:I believe we should put it in as a warning to those who attempt to put captured undead in pits.
:--Rickola

::Should it be mentioned that the Undead versions are much more tougher than 'normal' creatures, once I had an entire fortress wiped out by a single Undead Racoon. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:::I think zombies are a lot harder than skeletons.  Maybe undead horses are just absurdly hard anyway, but I put all seven of my starting dwarves on a single zombie horse.  Sure, they were untrained and unarmored and were wrestling it to death (except for the miners), but all seven dwarves went from untrained in wrestling to novice wrestlers, became tired/exhausted, AND two dwarves died and three got yellow/red injuries, before that single zombie horse went down.  Then the other four zombie horses wandered in...  Skeletons seem to be a lot easier to kill. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 04:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::Though zombies are easy to run away from.  My dwarves sidestep zombies whenever they see them (which is often, on my current map), but skeletons would corner them.  Zombies are, however, famously difficult to kill by wrestling.  Use an axe or sword.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Zombies are utterly impossible to kill with wrestling. The only wrestling move that can kill at all is strangling, and zombies don't breathe or bleed. Dwarves set to wrestle undead will only ever destroy them with punches. If you're heading into an evil biome, I'd recommend bringing a well-armed macedwarf! That'll teach 'em to stay dead, pretty darn quick. Swords aren't so good, spears and picks even worse, though axes will do okay. In a pinch, at least make your dwarves shields to bash with. It's a matter of raw damage. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::::(It's not true that strangling is the "only" kill move - wrestling also includes punches, and a lucky punch can damage the throat or an organ.  Not relevant here, but just saying for accuracy.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Skeleton Corpse ==

I have a Skeleton Horse Corpses. That's not normal, right? It appears to have fallen several levels into a river. Adjacent to it (well... adjacent if you ignore the z-difference) are bridge squares and weapon traps. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 11:55, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

:I saw [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22793.0 this report] a while ago on the bugs board. May be worth resurrecting it (especially if you can supply saves)? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, just noticed it wasn't on the bugs board, but on the gameplay questions board. May be worth starting a thread on the bugs board then? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:49, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, the board. I hadn't even looked at that yet. Anyway, the person you linked to posted in the bugs board too, so I guess this is known. I didn't think of getting a save... --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 07:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Skeletal creatures ==

I was told that skeletal creatures would lose their limbs whenever they hit broken status. Is this true?

As another note, if that is true, I have a bug that occured. Under the assumption broken bones = removed bones for the skeletons, one of my hammerdwarves hit a skeletal dragon so hard that its upper body was instantly mangled, skipping the broken (and thusly removed) state entirely.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Assuming the 'sever on break' tag applies to skeletons, it only applies to limbs. You can't 'sever' a torso. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

==Undead Megabeasts ==

Could this be elaborated on a bit? I've never seen an undead megabeast in the legends screen. How does this work? How rare is it (absurdly rare, I guess)? [[User:Lastofthelight|Lastofthelight]]

:I've had a zombie Titan... no idea why it was a zombie but it was the only megabeast i'd seen.  Really, megabeasts are far too rare now that they can be killed off in world gen. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:29, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::Agreed. Somehow, I've managed to avoid seeing a megabeast entirely as of yet. Zombies and skeletons are hard enough to find; megabeasts are nearly impossible.

::To be honest, I'm really hoping Toady hurries up and brings back the undead event that was talked about in [[Core components]]. That is, undead dwarves and pets that died in your fortress would pop through the floor and attack you. Spooky. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 07:10, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Zombie Gas Warfare ==

It should be noted that "live" zombies also spread miasma if they are indoors.  I have seen this on several occasions, but all with zombie fire imps, so I can't actually confirm that it happens with other zombie types.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 02:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Undead Building Destroyer ==
I have seen evidence that skeletal creatures have building destroyer. Has anyone had any experience with this or more evidence of it happening? Do they also trapavoid? If undead creatures do destroy buildings normally, it should be on the page, yes? -- [[User:CultOfTheRaven|CultOfTheRaven]] 18:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

: I believe that undead retain the traits of the base animal -- at least, I've had a skeletal raccoon steal items just like a regular raccoon does. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 02:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::The animal was a skeletal fox. I'm pretty sure regular foxes can't destroy doors. -- [[User:CultOfTheRaven|CultOfTheRaven]] 05:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

== Hammer vs Axe ==

After getting my 7 starting dwarves torn apart by a pack of skeletal muskox, I'd like to know just in case it happens again: what is more effective against undead, slashing or bludgeoning?  --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think bludgeon, as it has more raw damage while slashing has the advantage of easier bleeding, which is lost against undeads.[[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
:: Axes are very useful against the undead, since their criticals dismember limbs, it isn't uncommon for an axedwarf to cleave off a skeleton or zombies head killing it instantly even at low skill levels. You can test this yourself in adventure mode, using a Mace user and then an axe user to fight several undead encounters in evil zones. The combat system is inherently random, but after 20 or so fights each you'll quickly see some sort relevant data.

== Cut apart to kill? ==
 Undead can ~only~ be destroyed after losing thier Head, Upper Body, or Lower Body. <br />Even after having lost all of their limbs they'll still be quite "alive", so to speak.

This was an anonymous (IP only) post, with this as an editors comment:
 Tested this information while leveling an adverturer to legendary in almost<br /> exclusively undead encounters.

I'm removing it for now, at least until someone with a User name shows up to discuss it. Verification is needed before an absolute statement like this is made. Same in fortress mode? ''All'' undead?! Some of the above posts suggest that a hammer is a fine weapon for its brute damage potential, with or without smashing an undead into bits.  --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 ::::::(It's not true that strangling is the "only" kill move - wrestling also includes punches, and a lucky punch can damage the throat or an organ.  Not relevant here, but just saying for accuracy.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::{If you read what he said, you'll notice that he said that '''punches''' were the only way to 'kill' them with wrestling} --[[Special:Contributions/71.194.101.232|71.194.101.232]] 23:07, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 == Skeleton Corpse ==
@@ Line 52: / Line 50: @@
 ::To be honest, I'm really hoping Toady hurries up and brings back the undead event that was talked about in [[Core components]]. That is, undead dwarves and pets that died in your fortress would pop through the floor and attack you. Spooky. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 07:10, 1 February 2009 (EST)
-::I got a skeletal dragon. Disappointingly, it succumbed to a cage trap. I used savescumming to run some experiments, and it seems it's quite hardy but not particularly powerful. The dragon is now sitting in a dragonfire pillbox in my fortress - by the way, it seems that the undead BUILDINGDESTROYER:1 tag overrides BUILDINGDESTROYER:2, so it can be stopped by a raised drawbridge. I tried activating the pillbox and engaging it with my marksdwarves - it took an extremely long time to even begin to return fire, and only ignited one marksdwarf. On the plus side, being skeletal, I'm pretty sure that ranged attacks won't even scratch it - but now it's going to be a glorified fire trap. --[[Special:Contributions/155.69.95.232|155.69.95.232]] 09:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 == Zombie Gas Warfare ==
 It should be noted that "live" zombies also spread miasma if they are indoors.  I have seen this on several occasions, but all with zombie fire imps, so I can't actually confirm that it happens with other zombie types.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 02:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
-:I'm not even sure how having undead [[fire imp]]s is even ''possible''. You'd think that a zombie fire imp, for example, would roast itself to the point where it would die.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 04:27, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
-:: I embarked near a volcano in an evil biome.  I was beset with ''skeletal'' fire imps.  And yes, they do breathe fire! [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 11:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 == Undead Building Destroyer ==
@@ Line 73: / Line 67: @@
 :I think bludgeon, as it has more raw damage while slashing has the advantage of easier bleeding, which is lost against undeads.[[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
-:: Axes are very useful against the undead, since their criticals dismember limbs, it isn't uncommon for an axedwarf to cleave off a skeleton or zombies head killing it instantly even at low skill levels. You can test this yourself in adventure mode, using a Mace user and then an axe user to fight several undead encounters in evil zones. The combat system is inherently random, but after 20 or so fights each you'll quickly see some sort relevant data.<sup>anonymous edit - & see next section</sup>
+:: Axes are very useful against the undead, since their criticals dismember limbs, it isn't uncommon for an axedwarf to cleave off a skeleton or zombies head killing it instantly even at low skill levels. You can test this yourself in adventure mode, using a Mace user and then an axe user to fight several undead encounters in evil zones. The combat system is inherently random, but after 20 or so fights each you'll quickly see some sort relevant data.
 == Cut apart to kill? ==
@@ Line 82: / Line 76: @@
 I'm removing it for now, at least until someone with a User name shows up to discuss it. Verification is needed before an absolute statement like this is made. Same in fortress mode? ''All'' undead?! Some of the above posts suggest that a hammer is a fine weapon for its brute damage potential, with or without smashing an undead into bits.  --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
-== Depletion ==
-Does the local population of undead deplete like normal wild animals? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 23:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
-Doesn't look like it. My military got into a scuffle with some zombie muskoxen whilst routing an ambush, and even as my dorfs (re?)killed them, replacement zombies continued to spawn at the map edge at the same rate the other zombies were being felled. It was a nightmare... While this doesn't prove they can't be depleted, it does mean that undead may use different mechanics than living critters, i.e. being created on the spot instead of existing previously and wandering onto the map. Normal creatures do <b>not</b> spawn that quickly AFAIK. --[[User:Mr Frog|Mr Frog]] 03:09, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
-== Tameability? ==
-I was not able to find any information on taming the undead in the Tame or Pet articles, so I thought I'd bring it up here. Is it at all possible to tame zombie or skeletal creatures? Because I'd certainly love to have a bunch of skeletal giant eagles floating around my fortress as an alternative to bowling them over with my military every time one shows up. The goats and marmots... eh, not so much. [[Special:Contributions/24.22.239.156|24.22.239.156]] 03:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
-:I believe undead creatures are inherently hostile toward all non-undead creatures - using Dwarf Companion to make a tame animal undead makes it attack everyone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
-== Undead vs Living Creatures? ==
-In one evil fortress, most of the dwarves' opposition came in the form of undead mountain goats and hoary marmots. For the first few years it was just them, but then I ordered a dwarf, who wouldn't spar due to a spinal injury, to have a go at them since I needed bones. After killing a bunch of them, I saw for the first time LIVING mountain goats on the map. I think it may be possible that killing off enough undead beasties can cause them to lose influence, though I have no way of testing this.
-FWIW, it was a part-good part-evil map. Unicorns hung around the northeast corner of the map in the spring and liked to stumble into cage traps, though this was the first occurance of living ''goats.'' ~~[[User:Loyal|Loyal]] 01:55, 28 December 2009 (EST)
-== Flying Fish!!! ==
-You know, I always thought that the undead-fish-on-dry-land phenomena was just them flying around in a ghostly, possessed kind of way.
-:Speaking of ghosts, are they on the Dev lists? Maybe after magic is implemented? --[[Special:Contributions/71.194.101.232|71.194.101.232]] 23:21, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
-:: I always thought it was because undead [[carp]] are so terrifying, even the laws of physics know better than to piss them off. --[[User:Mr Frog|Mr Frog]] 03:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
-:: I though it was them swimming through the soil/rock, as without mortal limits to their muscles, they can keep exerting force. And the skeletal ones crawl using their ribcage as limbs.[[Special:Contributions/220.235.188.249|220.235.188.249]] 04:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
-::: Now that WOULD be scary. --[[Special:Contributions/85.12.64.150|85.12.64.150]] 11:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC) ([[User:Libelnon]])
-== Skeletal/Zombie tags ==
-This is perhaps mainly out of personal curiosity, but would it be possible to overhaul all of the creature pages and include whether they can be zombies/skeletal or not? --[[Special:Contributions/85.12.64.150|85.12.64.150]] 11:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC) ([[User:Libelnon]])