Editing 40d Talk:Ore

Should nuggets be labelled as such in the list? Before they are mined they are referred to as 'Native <metalname>', and are only labelled as nuggets once mined. Perhaps the table should be changed to indicate this. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:14, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:Before they are mined, they can't be smelted. It doesn't really matter which approach is used, as long as it is consistent; this article consistently refers to the post-mining state. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:13, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Should we take the Chromite out of the 'Found In' section for Platinum? Chromite is found in Olivine, and Platinum is already found in Olivine.--[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:58, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

----
Separate query - anyone know why Toady One requires native gold/silver to be smelted?  You don't have to smelt rock to get the gold or silver out, it is gold or silver and you can either melt it for casting or work with it directly.  (Historically most gold or silver mined has been melted down so it could be cast into bars for ease of transportation, but its still perfectly plausible to work with it in its raw state - rarely have the metalsmiths/jewelers been so close to the mining operations as in this game).  I believe this is also true of native copper (hence why copper weapons/tools vastly predate iron equivalents).  Smelting is the process of extracting metal from rock, not just melting it down. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:06, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

==Gold Nuggets==
So, I'm currently evaluating some gem occurrence data, but noticed that there is no native gold veins that are wholely interior to gabbro (with quite a few gold veins discovered thus far).  They may occur at the border of gabbro and other layers, and thus possibly extend into the gabbro, but nothing that could be said 'yep, that was generated in gabbro'.  This leads me to believe gold does not occur in gabbro, and gold present in gabbro is only incidental due to a vein running over into it from another stone layer. <br>
(For reference, I've dug 1x140 square tunnels on 55 z-levels such that they are all directly above each other, for a total of 7700 tiles dug out and ~15500 tiles revealed beyond that.  I've then mined out all gem clusters i've found, and am working on mining out all veins i've found.  The tunnels cross a biome boundary, with transitions of andesite/basalt, diorite/marble, and diorite/gabbro.  Gabbro is by far the most common rock tunneled through, followed by diorite, as the diorite/gabbro transition layers are the bulk of the layers)<br>
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:35, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
 [MATGLOSS_STONE:GOLD]
 [NAME:native gold][STONE_NAME:gold nuggets][COLOR:6:7:1][TILE:156]
 [ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_ALL:VEIN:100]
 [ENVIRONMENT:ALLUVIAL:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]
 [ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
 [METAL_ORE:GOLD:100]
 [SOLID_DENSITY:19320]
 [VALUE:30]
:Any problem?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:28, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
::[[Gold]] occurs in all igneous. [[Gabbro]] is igneous. Gold does not occur in gabbro: a contradiction.
::Based on gem occurrence patterns I hypothesize that each main layer (such as gabbro) is limited by the code to only a certain number of inclusions (such as gold), and after this inclusion list is full nothing else is created. For instance, maps will have a lot of one specific type of agate, rather than a little of each; or [[rock crystal]] is nowhere to be found in ten maps, and then appears in 15 small clusters in exactly one layer in one map. Any thoughts? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 23:11, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
:::I'm starting to see correlation in gems within rock masses, even across z-levels.  There may be something to this.  It would also explain why I have a boatload of gold veins, but none in Gabbro.  OTOH, I'm starting to think there's more to the mineral/gem generation that just what rock type the layer is - I've been getting some gem types repeatedly associated with areas where the rock layer is 'broken', ie, rock layer type boundaries (say Diorite meeting Gabbro) or next to an ore vein, whereas I'm finding different gems totally internal to rock layer types.  This actually makes sense geologically, but I want more data before I say anything definite. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:34, 29 April 2008 (EDT)



I have found the start of a vein of gold in gabbro, so I think that he was just getting some odd, extremely specific thing. I don't know. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:47, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:You'd have to find a gold vein completely inside a gabbor layer to rule out the vein having just finished running into a different stone layer.  I have malachite veins in my current game that terminate in andesite, mudstone, and even soil layers because they kept running past a stone boundary.
:Similar to my above query - I haven't seen a single gold vein in granite this game (and wasn't paying sufficient attention in previous games to notice).  I have found plenty of Bismuthsite, Silver, and Casserite in granite though.
:It still strikes me as highly plausible that the ore/gem generation algorithm is more complex than just 'is it the right class of rock?'.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:04, 8 December 2008 (EST)

== Native Aluminum ==

According to the soil article Aluminum occurs in soil as well, but this table and the Native Aluminum article make no mention of it occuring in soil. Can someone verify if it occurs in soil? --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 03:07, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Native Platinum ==

I've recently seen platinum clusters of about 20 to 30 in maps. Would this be classified as a size of its own? Although I have only seen it in one fort so far and i recently mined out a cluster of 4. Was this just a one time thing or is anybody else noticing this? --[[User:Jebraltix|Jebraltix]] 9:38, 16 Febuary 2009 (CST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==Nomenclature==
 Should nuggets be labelled as such in the list? Before they are mined they are referred to as 'Native <metalname>', and are only labelled as nuggets once mined. Perhaps the table should be changed to indicate this. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:14, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 :Before they are mined, they can't be smelted. It doesn't really matter which approach is used, as long as it is consistent; this article consistently refers to the post-mining state. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:13, 20 January 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 5: / Line 4: @@
 Should we take the Chromite out of the 'Found In' section for Platinum? Chromite is found in Olivine, and Platinum is already found in Olivine.--[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:58, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
-==Smelting of gold/silver==
+----
 Separate query - anyone know why Toady One requires native gold/silver to be smelted?  You don't have to smelt rock to get the gold or silver out, it is gold or silver and you can either melt it for casting or work with it directly.  (Historically most gold or silver mined has been melted down so it could be cast into bars for ease of transportation, but its still perfectly plausible to work with it in its raw state - rarely have the metalsmiths/jewelers been so close to the mining operations as in this game).  I believe this is also true of native copper (hence why copper weapons/tools vastly predate iron equivalents).  Smelting is the process of extracting metal from rock, not just melting it down. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:06, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
-:The closest I can come to an answer to this one is, you can build near-equal value items (maintly furniture) from the "native metal rock" using your mason instead of your metalworkers.
 ==Gold Nuggets==
 So, I'm currently evaluating some gem occurrence data, but noticed that there is no native gold veins that are wholely interior to gabbro (with quite a few gold veins discovered thus far).  They may occur at the border of gabbro and other layers, and thus possibly extend into the gabbro, but nothing that could be said 'yep, that was generated in gabbro'.  This leads me to believe gold does not occur in gabbro, and gold present in gabbro is only incidental due to a vein running over into it from another stone layer. <br>
@@ Line 41: / Line 40: @@
 I've recently seen platinum clusters of about 20 to 30 in maps. Would this be classified as a size of its own? Although I have only seen it in one fort so far and i recently mined out a cluster of 4. Was this just a one time thing or is anybody else noticing this? --[[User:Jebraltix|Jebraltix]] 9:38, 16 Febuary 2009 (CST)
-:I discovered a vein of native platinum once before, too. I thought platinum only occurred as small clusters, but apparently its matgloss says they can be discovered as veins in olivine and magnetite, too. --[[User:Sz|Sz]] 06:51, 17 February 2009 (EST)
-::It most definitely veins in magnetite (and never forms small clusters there).  I have never seen anything but small clusters in olivine. (I have a map with some 13 magnetite clusters thus far - most have had platinum veins).  The strange thing about platinum veining in magnetite is the vein will extend to the edge of the magnetite, stop, and then pick up again a few tiles away and finish the vein.  Not sure what causes this.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:59, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-:::I once had a map where all the exposed stone was either magnetite, chalk, or native platinum/aluminum.  Sadly though, it was one of the first fortresses I ever built, and I quit it without ever realizing the sheer value of my find.  O bitter folly of youth!  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 17:35 18 August 2009
-== ore -> blocks ==
-Are blocks able to be refined at a smelter? this would reduce the number of hauling tasks taken to keep a furnace operator busy and create work to help level up a mason.<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
-:Almost certain that they're not. I don't remember where I read it, so I can't spread some sauce on this one. I do know there is (used to be?) a mod that was used only for converting blocks back to ores. An easy risk-free check is trading for one at the next caravan, as the humans/dwarven wagons almost always have a block of an ore. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 14:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
-::Damn, my ore deposits are all the way across the screen from the volcano. Oh well looks like the miners get to dig a lava trench... see if '''this''' volcano recovers!<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 00:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
-== What to do with low value ores/metals? ==
-Iron goes into steel. Alu,platinum, gold, silver are all rare enough and worthwile to build wealth and high value furniture and please preferences, or just for a nice hoard. Some copper and tin goes into billon. Zinc and some copper go into brass. If you really need you can turn a little bit of nickel and zink into magma safe nickel silver.
-But what to do with the endless amounts of, like, Galena, Garnierite and Cassiterite? Thers only so much furniture i can make and trading it away as craft just doesnt feel right.
-:Train Metal Crafters with it!  Bituminous coal only costs 3☼ to Import, (or ~6☼ at max priority) so you can afford to smelt every bar and make something with it and sell it to the caravans.  --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 17:42 18 August 2009 (EST)
-::Galena gives [[silver]] for practice weapons, and the lead is [[bars]], which are the perfect substitute for floor grates - if you can't find a use for those, you aren't trying.  Garnierite & cassiterite create higher-value alloys.  If all you have is copper and no alloy ores/metals, then you can either trade for that (requesting via [[liaison]]), or Cu can be used for training various smiths via re-melting. And hoarding is not all bad - improves [[created wealth]].--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)