Editing 40d Talk:Military

AFAIK, drafting unhappiness is more precice - ANY military skills will mitigate the "draft" thought, and ANY civilian skills will prevent grumpiness about "being relieved." Don't have proof, though, and I can't check just ATM - can someone look at this?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 20:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I checked a little.  Dabbling skills are not enough, but novice military skills are sufficient to prevent unhappiness about being drafted, while novice civilian skills prevent angst when the dwarves are relived.  Is it ok as long as they don't become peasants or recruits? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Tests:
* Novice Jeweler
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - did not complain
* Dabbling Butcher
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - unhappy
Will update again when dwarfs are no longer unhappy.  Also, it seems to me that marksdwarves need to be stationed near the barracks to practice when they are standing down - can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)


I can also add results to the tests above:
* Novice Marksdwarf / Novice Butcher
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - No unhappy thought
* Novice Butcher only
** enlisted - unhappy
** unenlisted - no unhappy thought
* Novice Axedwarf / Dabbling Planter
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - unhappy.
Dwarves don't need to be stationed near the barracks for sparring practice when off-duty, mine (Axedwarves and Marksdwarves) are stationed almost 5 full screens away. [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 03:59, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Injuries while sparring ==

It IS still possible to get grievous injuries while sparring. I currently have two guards resting with injuries, one maimed and one with a broken limb. Mitigating circumstances? Near-masterwork steel battleaxes and no armor. On the other hand, none of them are Strong or anything (or Tough, for that matter). Also I just checked and I have a Wrestler with a left lung and upper spine maimed too, couldn't be from anything else but sparring with the over-equipped guards, and he was wearing iron chainmail AND was Agile, Tough. I'd make the change myself but I'm too clueless about wikis and don't want to break some law of etiquette.

I wrote the paragraph before, I shall amend if with your new information --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Interestingly, I've had no major injuries with wrestler sparring in 3 years.  A couple bruises, nothing more.  Only thing I can see different is that I have a massive barracks, with 3 rooms and inner doors.  When they 'spar' next to each other, there can be some minor bruising, but they gain skill when they aren't next to each other.  They do have iron bucklers and full steel chainmail which helps, but my barracks doesn't even have blood on the floor 95% of the time.  Perhaps larger barracks are the way to go, or was I just lucky? --Gotthard 12:03, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I've had many announcements of guards/soldiers suffocating to death due to sparring with a wrestler. --Esoterrik 6:27, 4/10/08

== Discarded equipment ==

I have noticed that if I have civilians wandering around who get interrupted by wild critters, if I draft them they are fairly inclined to dump whatever they are carrying and then follow orders. If their preferences are set to have certain millitary equipment then they will disregard whatever other orders I set to go off and try to make their inventory match their orders.

I don't really have a problem with any of that.
What I '''do''' have a problem with, is when I de-list/de-{{key|A}}ctivate them, they dump their millitary items wherever they happen to be.
So it means I should really only deactivate millitary types when they are close to a weapon & armour stockpile I guess?
Any other opinion/advice/observations on this issue?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== War ==

A goblin just snatched one of the babies out of my fortress....  Any way to take the war to these b@$+@rds? - [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 09:22, 23 March 2008 (EST)

:Not yet... that's the Army Arc, which Toady is working on right now. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:31, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

==Dual wield?==

(note: this is not dual wielding, this is the dwarf carrying a backup weapon slung across their back in case the first weapon becomes stuck in a combatant)
why then does my dwarf carry a short silver sword in each hand? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:00, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

My dwarves set to carry 2 weapons also drop their sheild.  This does not necessarily mean that they are  dual wielding, but it is a negative to them carrying 2 weapons. --[[User:Esoterrik1|Esoterrik1]] 16:27, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

==Cross-training/Reserves Program==

I think it's kind of sad that we don't have a section in this part of the wiki about cross-training or making a reserves program where you use civilian levelups to get stat increases for your military dwarves.  It not only makes for better armies, it staves off unhappiness if you ever need to relieve some dwarves of duty.  These little tips are spread throughout the wiki in weird places, and I think they really ought to be consolidated here.  Going spit out a first draft of something like that in this spot so it can be discussed and edited before being added or put in its own page.

Please use this space (and not some spot inside the article) to discuss and note your changes.<br>
--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:38, 18 September 2008 (EDT)


Nobody is commenting on it so I'm assuming people are fine with it.  Adding this into the article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:31, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

"Internship (Bookkeeper) - Turn on Highest precision bookkeeping and rotate the appointed noble in and out the second he becomes a Legendary Bookkeeper." Can this go wrong if I don't switch the dwarf out before attaining highest precision? I have a legendary bookkeeper who attained highest precision, and now no other dwarf will take on bookkeeping jobs, despite being appointed to the job and having the office requirements met. The settings screen always reads: "Your bookkeeper has done enough work to attain the highest precision" (DF version 40d).
[[User:Edenicholas|Edenicholas]] 01:49, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
: Basically, the bookkeeper only has work if the stores change significantly enough for the precision. Unfortunately, this is not always under your direct control. *wrinkles nose* If you read through the Bookkeeper article and the associated talk pages, apparently at some point highest precision meant they worked on it frequently no matter what, but I agree that in 40d, this doesn't always seem to hold true. Ensure that you have enough stores to require frequent counting (it's what, a thousand items at least before the gain or loss of 10 or so puts you out of spec?). That's the closest I can find to actual advice for you. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 07:56, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
<br>
: Yeah, starting fairly recently the Bookkeeper will only do the extra work when it's needed.  You can ensure that it is always needed by keeping a Gulag active (thus producing scads of stone), and keeping Mason shops active by requisitioning lots of Blocks.  Also make sure to buy plenty from the caravans -- a full shipment of logs will wreak havoc on the stockpile books (lots of logs in, lots of crafts out).  Still, though, it might be a good idea to make a gym and set your clerk to Pump Operation on top if it.  You may end up with a Legendary Pump Operator/Adept Bookkeeper, but even by that point Bookkeeping has given the dwarf a few nice stat upgrades, and the lucky intern is now an ideal candidate for the military.  --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:05, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:: While I don't know if it's optimized, I used to set my Bookkeeper up as one of the fortress's hunters. Between the bookkeeping operations, he was out getting archery practice on the local wildlife. And with the legendary stat increases, he was fully capable of bashing foes through the air with his crossbow alone when he ran out of bolts. He never has increased very far on his Ambusher skill though... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:19, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

The article seems to be getting a bit long in the tooth. Perhaps split "Reserves program" and "Army engineers" into a different article? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 03:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:Agreed.  The "cross-training" advice is good for any dwarf you want to beef up (which should be all of them, not just your military).  The Corps of Engineers is an excessively elaborate way of saying you want one or more high-skill mason/building designers and mechanics in your fort.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:36, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

::I honestly wasn't sure where to put the Corps of Engineers bit.  I considered putting it in its own article or attaching it to a couple others, but ended up putting it here because in my experience having them around benefits your military more than anything else.  I haven't been around too long, so I'm not sure how people like to organize things here, so move it as it pleases you.<br>

::Also, the Corps advice goes beyond just a couple high skill masons and mechanics, the way I see it.  They serve a very important niche in any fort, and it goes into a lot of detail about how to train them most efficiently.  If you see a way to shorten it, please do so by all means; I proofread it a couple times trying to figure out how to do so, but I couldn't come up with anything - more or less everything I put in there is what I feel is needed detail. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:32, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:::With no real argument against splitting, it's been done. Info can now be found at [[cross-training]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:20, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

== smoothing near river? ==

# Careless designation of smoothing areas may have your dwarves trying to smooth walls too close to magma or a river. 

Why is this bad? the article on smoothing doesn't say. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 13:59, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'd imagine it's because dwarfs aren't very smart and may either incite the local fauna, or fall in. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 15:03, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:Maybe they try to smooth the "wet" side, which would probably result in a cancellation message.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:38, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
::They don't do this.  I flooded my swimming pool before it was totally smoothed and my engravers just politely ignored my designations until I had drained it for them.  The larger issue is that rivers and magma pools can all contain Bad Things (tm) like carp or magma men, which puts your dwarves at an unnessecery risk.  --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)


== Encumbrance ==

This is a really impressive amount of research, and I suggest it now is large enough to deserve its own page, with a link from here. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:49, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks.  A split would be fine; [[Equipment and encumbrance]], maybe?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:31, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:: That's definitely got my vote over just "Encumbrance." I keep forgetting what sort of page titles are valid in a wiki. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 01:29, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Done.  It certainly got more elaborate than I had initially intended.  It was fun writing it, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:55, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Carrying two weapons ==

Ok, I have a dwarf champion with legendary in all weapon types (well, that can be equipped. No whips for him.) armor, shields and wrestling. He has the highest possible listed attributes and is currently wearing legendary steel greaves and plate (I got really lucky). 

My question is, is there a way for me to make him carry two weapons around? Honestly, I took off his shield for the last goblin siege and he didn't get hurt at all (I think he had a bruised lower leg which healed in about one turn, it seemed). 

I just think he would be better off carrying two weapons around instead of his shield, but the labor menu is totally blocked off, including hunting and soldiering. Is there any way to actually get him to carry that second weapon?[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 19:47, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:{{k|m}}ilitary-{{k|w}}weapons, right arrow over to where it says #:1, hit Enter.  It's possible you'll also need to set "shield" to none.  I've never tried out double weapons before.  But given that he can get still injured, I personally wouldn't fool with it.  Especially if you go up against elite bowmen: you'll end up with a legendary pincushion that menaces with spikes of iron.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:39, 8 November 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 It IS still possible to get grievous injuries while sparring. I currently have two guards resting with injuries, one maimed and one with a broken limb. Mitigating circumstances? Near-masterwork steel battleaxes and no armor. On the other hand, none of them are Strong or anything (or Tough, for that matter). Also I just checked and I have a Wrestler with a left lung and upper spine maimed too, couldn't be from anything else but sparring with the over-equipped guards, and he was wearing iron chainmail AND was Agile, Tough. I'd make the change myself but I'm too clueless about wikis and don't want to break some law of etiquette.
-:I wrote the paragraph before, I shall amend if with your new information --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
+I wrote the paragraph before, I shall amend if with your new information --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)
 Interestingly, I've had no major injuries with wrestler sparring in 3 years.  A couple bruises, nothing more.  Only thing I can see different is that I have a massive barracks, with 3 rooms and inner doors.  When they 'spar' next to each other, there can be some minor bruising, but they gain skill when they aren't next to each other.  They do have iron bucklers and full steel chainmail which helps, but my barracks doesn't even have blood on the floor 95% of the time.  Perhaps larger barracks are the way to go, or was I just lucky? --Gotthard 12:03, 10 December 2007 (EST)
-:I've had many announcements of guards/soldiers suffocating to death due to sparring with a wrestler. --Esoterrik 6:27, 4/10/08
+I've had many announcements of guards/soldiers suffocating to death due to sparring with a wrestler. --Esoterrik 6:27, 4/10/08
-::That may have been due to miners getting critical hits with their picks, I think picks still have a massive critical boost like spears do. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 23:52, 20 November 2008 (EST)
-:::Picks have the same crit boost as spears - see [[Weapon#Weapon_statistics]]. In fact, for military purposes, picks '''are''' spears that use the mining instead of the speardwarf skill and do 30% less damage. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:13, 13 December 2008 (EST)
-Another report on sparring over 10 years in a single room large barracks.  I've got only two notable injuries, both nervous system, and both light grey or brown.  They were only acquired by dwarves after I started training spears, and to two of four dwarves who hadn't yet received platemail.  In addition to the large barracks I've also been using silver weapons for training and layering armor.  They're all also legendary wrestlers before any started weapons training.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:30, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 == Discarded equipment ==
@@ Line 122: / Line 116: @@
 :{{k|m}}ilitary-{{k|w}}weapons, right arrow over to where it says #:1, hit Enter.  It's possible you'll also need to set "shield" to none.  I've never tried out double weapons before.  But given that he can get still injured, I personally wouldn't fool with it.  Especially if you go up against elite bowmen: you'll end up with a legendary pincushion that menaces with spikes of iron.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:39, 8 November 2008 (EST)
-::I suppose you have a point. Last ambush he only went against one bowman (who managed to badly bruise his shield arm, the bastard!) and some macegoblins. I'll just work on that legendary shield.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 20:52, 8 November 2008 (EST)
-::: The menu Maximus is talking about is only for the number of weapons he carries with him. If a weapon gets stuck in an enemy, a dwarf carrying two weapons will be able to use the second weapon. Dwarves can carry a weapon and a shield in the same hand anyway, so I doubt you need to turn off shields. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:28, 8 November 2008 (EST)
-:::Those who I've set to use this option I've seen holding both of their weapons in one hand, and a shield in the other. Somehow this seems to work well! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 03:08, 9 November 2008 (EST)
-== Patrol Issues ==
-I've had troubles getting certain units to move as a squad. My marksdwarf squad seems to do just fine, but my four other soldiers need to be leaders of their own squads to be able to move anywhere. Otherwise, the leader of that squad runs off to die, and the others just continue using the patrol routes they had when they were in their own squads. How do I fix this?  TomMyarna
-:You need to break off the other soldiers from the squad, designating each of them into their own squads again, and then clear out each of their patrol routes. Reassign them to the dwarf you want them to follow and they should do so without many issues after that. [[User:Zykis|Zykis]] 11:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
-::I just started fooling with this recently, but it seems like even with no patrol routes ever set the members of any squad will run back and forth between home and target like a swarm of gnats without any sense, very rarely reaching either.  Unless clearing patrol routes also clears the "station"?  If an enemy is in the area every once in a while one member of the squad may get close enough to charge their cocked crossbows yelling the ''Duh! Duh! Duh!'' dorfen warcry, and nothing can stop him (including stay close to station, etc) while the rest run and back waiting for news of his death.  (Civilians, on the other hand, are more than eager to come out from unexpected spots on heights and lowlands to recover his wounded soon to be corpse, or corpse, from the feet of his attackers, pick up arrows, grab equipment, etc., stopping only within about 1/4 of a bowshot from the enemy to realize their mistake, take a few steps back if alive, then try again)  So far as I could figure, every time one gets hungry or thirsty or a leatherworker finishes an extra quiver or a waterskin or a backpack, one runs back home and some follow him and some don't.  Is it safe to say that as a rule that dorfs should ''never'' be put more than one to a squad, except in order to change settings?  [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 20:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
-:::I should add that since then I managed to get some squads to work by the book, and others are just as dysfunctional as the first time.  I don't understand what's going on still. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 07:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
-::::Squads are a nice mix of disfunctional and annoying currently. Once managing single soldiers is too much of hassle, I have so many soldiers it doesnt matter what they do where and when. If I got that right, squads get a major overhaul *salutes* for the next version . --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
-== making a soldier kill something ==
-an antman ran off with one of my mules.
-oddly there doesn't seem to be an option to get soldiers to actually kill something, only to station or patrol.
-which is of lttle use when your mule is being chased all over the mountain.
-is there any way to make soldiers attack or are they only guards.
-:AFAIK by default, your dwarves will not attack wild life on their own, only defend against it. You can set the squad behaviour to "attack wild animals" to switch to berserker mode, though. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 17:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)