Editing 40d Talk:Elf

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them.  The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters.  They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now.  There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade.  If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less.  Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect.  The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me.  I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though.  Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts.  I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location.  There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!"  And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though.  I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well.  Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)


== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]</small>

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt.  --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)
-::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly.  I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 ::They may rather be bugged now.  There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 23: / Line 21: @@
 I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
-:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)
-I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 == Fortress in Elf Territory ==
@@ Line 49: / Line 43: @@
 ::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)
-::: I've had it happen to me as well, heck, half my map is haunted and frozen year round. Oddly vermin, bats and squirrels and such, make it through fine. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 :I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 57: / Line 49: @@
 Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)
-: I have had a super agile mace-elf (from a goblin ambush) pass three rows of noquality weapon traps; he then proceeded to ''slaughter'' my chained dogs, black bear, alligator, jaguar and monkeys almost unscratched (his upper body was merely 'tired'). Either the animals are particularly weak, or they failed to attack the invader. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 == Elven warnings ==
@@ Line 68: / Line 59: @@
 :Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
-::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 ==Blood Covering?==
@@ Line 76: / Line 65: @@
 I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
-:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind.  --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 == Speaking with Halfmen ==
@@ Line 117: / Line 104: @@
 ::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
-:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 == Last edit ==
@@ Line 126: / Line 112: @@
 ::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)
-== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
-On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason.  Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼».  (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...)  I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace.  I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
-:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk.  I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)
-== Elven in-laws? ==
-Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!
-== At War with Elves ==
-I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter).  Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:
-*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message.  So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.
-*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above).  You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.
-*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not.  So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name.  Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name.  I found this confusing, actually.  Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.
-*How can you start a war with Elves?  Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?
-*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees?  I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.
-*Is there a way to establish peace with elves?  What is necessary to do so?  (do you need to have the king?)
-*Anything else about being at war with elves?
-If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.
-: They don't like cutting down undead trees. Undead logs are of course not tradable. [[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 11:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Elven Age ==
-It also may be worth mentioning that elves do NOT die from age, due to the lack of [MAXAGE:] tag in their raw, haven't tested in game but it seems more than likely the absence of the tag would cause such an effect. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Trading ==
-My elves stopped bringing, well, anything except cloth. the first 2,3 caravans brought all the nice things like animals, plants, weapons, logs, but not any more.
- Why?
-possible reasons:
-*I have butchered some of the animals they sold.
-*I might have mostly sold goblin stuff to 1 or 2 caravans (which does not count as export?), but this shouldn't affect their profits ,right?
-*I have rather large log stores (40-80) (but have always agreed and kept to the lowest chopping limits) This probably explains why few/no logs are brought, but not the rest?
-*I once accidently offered wooden items for trade, but this didn't even make them leave instantly but just set traders mood low
-* diplomacy went well, no elven losses to sieges or ambushes
- How can i please them again?
---[[User:Confused|Confused]] 13:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-:Actually they bring you cloth because they ''are'' pleased, and they're bringing you their most valuable item. if you want the good stuff, try to piss them off. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:98.155.18.87|98.155.18.87]]</small>
-::Cloth is '''not''' their most valuable item - caravans in general are hardcoded to bring '''bins''' of items first and then fill up their wagons and pack animals with their other items. Boost the trade capacity of their pack animals, and an Elven caravan bearing 50 bins of cloth will suddenly be bringing 50+ caged animals and hundreds of barrels of booze. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:45, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
-== Tree Felling Warning ==
-Some more details on the elven tree felling warning (got this today):
-Elven diplomat arrives around the same time as the caravan normally appears, with the following request:
-"We elves are partial in particular to the trees in the forests
-surrounding your lands.  Although we are loathe to spare a
-single branch to your senseless slaughter, we are willing to ask
-that you cap your tree-fells at one hundred until we next meet.
-I will try to return next year as I am able."
-You are then given the following options:
- - We can grant this request.  Let's discuss the specifics, though...
- - We cannot stop production just because of your quaint sensibilities.
-== Elves follow a drunk? ==
-[http://grabug.web.nowhere-else.org/web/Drunkelvenleader.PNG Drunk Elf Leader]
-==Images of trees a bad thing?==
-(28.181.40d) This one has me bewildered. I was doing some batch trading with an elven caravan, not the first that's come by my fortress, only when I go to trade, they get offended and leave. So I scour the list I'd checked, and the talk page here, and have only two theories: 1. Skulls are still appalling (totems were marked to trade), but considering the above's post on bone being ok, I don't see why not. 2. I had a Herring bone ring, spiked with sapphire and having this image on it: "a well-designed '''''image of''''' a '''Birchen''' blowgun '''in Purple spinel'''." None of my dwarves have been assigned to decorate with wood, which is why the sour trade struck me as odd. Now, I've seen this occasionally with decorations where one material will (somehow) be representing an object made out of another material, but would that trigger the elven disgust at trying to sell them wood by way of a string match? [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]] 05:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
-:Skulls are skulls, and bones are bones. Yes, *we* know that skulls are made out of bone but the game doesn't. They're a seperate category of object (and I believe skull totems are thus forbidden). That will probably change once the new material system goes in with the next release. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 19:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
-::I've traded many skull totems to the elves.  Also, the game does treat skull totems as bone items for some purposes: I recently fulfilled a mandate to "make rhesus macaque bone items" by making a rhesus macaque skull totem. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 03:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)