Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.34 Talk:Vampire

2012-05-06T09:51:35Z

Webkilla: /* How to seal in a vampire */

== Lets improve this article ==

I think it might be a good idea to divide this into two parts, one for adventure mode and one for fortress mode, since it is quite a difference.
I'm not very good at wikis, so i dont really want to do anything wrong, but this would be usefull to be added:
* Do vampires actually sustain your fort if everybody else dies?
* vampires usually have tons of sentient creature bone crafts on them in adventure mode
* vampires are often found in high positions in adventure mode
* potential (dwarfy) uses marked d for dwarf

et cetera. just some ideas here, would be happy if somebody did this. --[[User:Miauw62|Miauw62]] 14:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

:In regards to fortress mode, from my own fortress I have observed the following:
:* Vampires in fortress mode also wear lots of bone jewellery which can be used to identify them.
:* Vampires in fortress mode are not necessarily highly skilled/ranked (e.g. a peasant in my case).
:
:Also, it should perhaps be noted that due to their lack of thirst or hunger, vampires can be happily locked into a room and used by resourceful players for menial tasks such as lever-pulling, work-managing or bookkeeping.
:I believe that vampire skills are frozen, and thus are not particular useful as soldiers unless already skilled - could someone confirm this?
:--[[User:Flobulon|Flobulon]] 16:31, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

:* Vampires tend to have been part of a lot of forts
:* Vampire skills may be frozen but if so it's at bite time and I got a dwarf turned in an existing fort since I leveled his weapon skills extensively in a danger room... no way of knowing pre/post vampirism.
[[User:Shadus|Shadus]] 18:41, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
::Vampires' attributes are frozen. Vampires continue to gain (and lose) skill. --[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 00:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
::This is info from the first patch, but I imagine it hasn't been changed. Vampires don't drink but are still alcohol dependent. This is reflected in the article by mentioning that "s/he really needs a drink", and is because they haven't had any alcohol since they entered your fort. I'm pretty sure this results in the vampire being an immensely poor worker despite never needing to stop to eat/drink. I noticed that a vampire that was jailed and then isolated into a sealed off area became perpetually tired; I think this might be unrelated to the sobriety but I'm not sure. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 18:50, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
:::34.07 - a weak vampire came as an immigrant, i made him a miner - now he is mighty (as written in v mode). In adv. mode 34.07 i also managed to become a vamp flom almost very start: powerlevelling as a vampire also worked perfectly, all the stats increased the same way as if my hero was a non-vamp. The single bad thing in adv.mode is that vamp has a speed-cap of about 1300, even if an elf with maxed 2k speed becomes a vamp, the speed is instantly set to a vamp's cap of ~1300. (there are three exact constant cap's depending on the race, yet all are 1300+-)

Do you mean sobriety from booze or blood? --[[User:Headjack|Headjack]]
:From booze. They need to drink alcohol to avoid the negative effects any other dwarf would experience but do not drink alcohol. The "tired" status was probably from not getting enough blood, but the status message is from alcohol. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 13:20, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I've tested the "s/he really needs a drink"/"s/he has not had a drink in far, far too long" Vampire Identification Methodtm and found it to be pretty much useless in vampire CSI. Have updated the page to reflect this new discovery. --[[User:CantankerousTank|CantankerousTank]] 22:12, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Fixed text to reflect uncertainty [[User:Headjack|Headjack]] 03:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

A few things on my mind:
Do vampires actively marry/reproduce?
Do vampires have vampire kids?
How often do vampires create new vampires through biting & how likely is it?
[[User:Headjack|Headjack]] 08:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

: I had a vampire who had a wife in my fort. They also had a children. However, according legends, it seems that vampire was married and got children before he was cursed to be a vampire. His child was not vampire. [[Special:Contributions/80.247.245.72|80.247.245.72]] 13:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

--Hey, could someone confirm this for me? I'm finding that vampires cant display custom profession or nicknames given to them. Its happening on my end but I wanna get someone else to back this up; it might be the best way to CSI yet.
[[User:Headjack|Headjack]] 08:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
:It is true. However, it will also be fixed in the next version. [[User:Knight Otu|Knight Otu]] 10:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

-------Do they have strange moods? technically they should but i'm not sure
- They do indeed get strange moods, had to let a vampire out of its enclosure for one

-Just found another possible way to identify vampires. A dwarf in my fortress that I'm pretty sure is a vampire is displaying a completely different name ingame from what is being displayed for him in the current Dwarf Therapist. Not sure if someone else more experienced wants to test this and/or update the page, this is my first contribution here. [[User:Tombozo|Tombozo]] 03:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

-Thats probably another iteration of the name bug
[[User:Headjack|Headjack]] 20:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

-Dwarf Therapist identification can also lead to false positives
:- Nice try, vampire. --[[User:IC Pandemonium|IC Pandemonium]] 06:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Somebody on Reddit said that zombies won't attack vampires in your fortress. Can anyone confirm/deny this? [[User:FatherLatour|FatherLatour]] 00:36, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

-I don't know, I am now 3 for 3 vampires positively identified in my fortress, none of whom have names that match the name that Dwarf Therapist shows for them. I wouldn't doubt that this is related to the nickname bug, but it wouldn't surprise me if this (at least the DF part) were intentional behavior. It makes sense - a vampire who lived in 10-20 forts in the past, changes names every time they move. It is possible that the name Therapist shows is their original name, and the name shown ingame is a new alias; this could be the source of the nickname bug - the player can't give the vampire a new name, because the vampire has already given himself one. [[User:Tombozo|Tombozo]] 01:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

-I have a new immigrant that seems suspicious. Every single thing in her wound menu is inhibited or broken. I'm able to nickname her but she doesn't show up on Dwarf Therapist. I'm going to keep an eye on her... Has anyone seen anything like this?
:I've had several immigrants like this, so far they've turned out to be 'normal' and, if you save and reload, DT discovers them. My current theory, based on a large number of missing ears, is elven raiders jealous of dwarven ears.

-This page doesn't specify whether vampire dwarves will specifically target living dwarves or if a vampire will feed on another vampire. Has anyone ever observed this?
:Vampires only feed on sleeping creatures. Vampires never sleep. Therefore, Vampire never feed on vampires. --[[User:Timrem|Timrem]] 19:31, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
::Vampires will rest if wounded. I'm pretty sure I've seen vampires feed on resting dwarves, not just sleeping. Could be worth testing at least. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 13:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I can confirm that vampires and undead will not attack each other in fortress mode. During an undead siege I sent my vampire pikeman outside and closed the bridge. Both parties ignored the other, however the undead did fight back after giving an explicit attack order. You could use a single vampire to fight off an undead horde if your fort is sealed, but issuing attack orders to 80+ undead is a pain, and if you seal off your fort it's simply more fun to use magma. It should be possible to use this fact to quickly flush out a vampire. Build a contained area next to a critical hallway that every dwarf will pass through. Use fortifications to allow viewing the area while preventing (most) crossbowdwarves from shooting in, and a bridge so it can be turned off. Place an undead creature in the area and lower the bridge. As each dwarf passes by the undead, they should panic and ran away - unless they are a vampire. I imagine that this would quickly filter out any vampires in your fort, but I haven't tested any of it. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 13:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

- Mass kill designation might help a bit with that. -- [[User:Frogwarrior|Frogwarrior]] 15:07, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Do vampires produce ghosts if improperly memorialized? Considering converting my fortress into vampires with a tainted well. --[[User:Introprospector|Introprospector]] 01:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, they do. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 03:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

<strike>Page also doesn't say if Vampires will feed off their own rellies, and thus make themselves unhappy. I'll test this to find out, if nobody knows. (I have one who had a son in the fortress - I'm fairly sure this vampire immigrated, too; so either he came with a wife and kid or that happened in the fort. Will also find out if child is a vamp.)</strike> Apparently missdiagnosed vampire. He got hungry. No idea who it is, now. Sorry! --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 16:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Instead of enforcing Justice normally, once I determine who the vampire is I've just been locking them up in a room by drafting them and stationing them in a room, then forbidding the door. Twice now I've had them get out and discovered the formerly locked door to be "Passable", but not pet passable. I'm quite certain I never unforbade it myself, doubly so since I would have made it pet passable as well. Do vampires have a way to pick locks, or could there be some other force opening the doors? This is in the middle of my fort so a hidden gremlin/thief should be impossible. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 22:55, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Very likely vampire's "hair is dark brown with flecks of grey" in my most recent fort (from v0.34.6) am adding a verify tag to the "white hair" section of identification... have a nasty feeling that the vamps have developed hair colouring. [[User:Earthfiredrake|Earthfiredrake]] 03:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Just a quick note about the "He has the appearance of someone (x) years old and is among the first of his kind" line. I don't know firsthand how useful this is for vampire ID in general, but in a world with a very short history, any dwarf older than the world will have this line for their age. So, for example, I've got a fortress in year 8 of its world, so any dwarf older than 8 years old has this. This caused me to briefly worry that I had an all-vamp fort before I figured it out. 19:00 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Melancholy ==
To get rid of the 5 vampires I had locked up, I sent them to kill a forgotten beast duster. Unfortunately one survived despite the syndrome and infection, but with the severe wounds and his friends dying and rotting in front of him, he went insane. Somehow he got cured of the infection and appears to be in perfect health now. As he doesn't need food or drink to survive he isn't going to die on his own. Supposedly melancholic dwarves will jump off cliffs or into magma, but he doesn't seem to be even trying to do that. Is there anything I can do to get rid of him? -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Mmh, they gravitate to meeting areas, trap him somewhere and add magma, or just trap him in a cavern. [[User:Headjack|Headjack]] 00:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

== Atom Smashing Vamps Is Dangerous ==

Vampire Ghosts?
If you thought you had it bad before, there have been reports that vampire ghosts are un-slabbable; and their ghosts are still thirsty...

This issue is supposedly fixed according to the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php?version_id=32 34.05 change log]. Testing is still required to see if vampire ghosts can be atom-smashed with impunity now (though the tearing off of limbs would probably still be a detriment).--[[User:Tenyn42|Tenyn42]] 20:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

-I smashed a vampire, they later popped back up again as a restless spirit (I'll need to check the legends to see just how troubled their life was). I'm using the vanilla edition, and once people noticed the ghost they were classed as 'deceased' and I could engrave a slab.

== First vamp notes ==

I just got my first vamp (I think he's the first one...) and he was identified completely by accident.
All of a sudden I got a message that "Stodir Keskalosir, Dwarf Butcher vampire cancels..." Although I'd not noticed it before, he does appear by that name and title in the unit listings now, and he also has his night creature tile. He has not attacked anyone yet, my fort has 0 dead dorfs and 0 missing ones. I do have Dwarf Therapist and DFHack, so one of those may explain why he was auto-revealed. His name does match the one shown in Therapist, notably. I did discover a method to flush out vamps, though. His details indicate that he is 98 years old, born in the year 7. Its currently year 252. So he's lying about almost a hundred and fifty years, roughly an entire normal dorf's lifespan. If someone can verify it, let's add "has a mismatched birth year and age combination" to the methods of catching one. In other news, I'm planning a vampire work pit: A small pit, with a level above and a level below. Raw materials are dumped into the top, the vamp(s) inside process them, then dump them back down the other side for retrieval. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 21:17, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

== Unconfirmed ==

Think this is another instance of name bug. I set one of my vampires up in a labyrinth (he can open goblin cages himself without a lever, woot!) He has enough kills to warrant a longer name, at least according to therapist, but he still shows his original short name. Presumably this would be an additional way to ID vamps if confirmed.

== Vampire Diplomat ==

I just got a human law-giver vampire diplomat in my fortress. He just arrived so I don't know if he'll start anything funky, but I was wondering if anyone else had experience with this? Anything I've got to watch for? And if so, it may be worthwhile to add the possibility to this page. [[User:Angry B8|Angry B8]] 15:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

-I've just had the same experience - due to some past grievances with their kind, I'm going to try to dispose of them in a manner which probably won't be linked back to me, and I'll post the results up. (21 March 2012)
---Turns out the humans were remarkably ungrateful about the fact that I had delivered them from their vampire overlord, so they besieged me. He didn't go down without a fight - I released several goblins into his room, and he shoved his human-bone jewellery right through their skulls before going down after an armed swordsman struck him down. Conclusion from all of this, vampire diplomats exist and are still treated as respected members of their own civilisation.

- One of my two known vamps somehow became Baron so he's locked into his quarters with a couple wall grates and levers. Suddenly this Serpent Man vampire law giver diplomat shows up! I had to open the Baron's enclosure up and they are now negotiating. I'm quite excited to see what the result will be.

== Zero Variation ==
Just adding a little note here, in case anybody else is curious about the same things as I am: I had a look through a lot of the vampires in my world.sav, and there was no variation between any of the vampire curses. Every vampire curse was identical to the example curse: strength, agility, toughness+200, standard tag changes, nothing else. --[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 22:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

== Blood vision ==

I'm playing an adventurer vamp, and I've been getting red " marks where some enemies beyond my normal sight lines. Not all enemies get red " marks, so I think it's the ones who are bleeding. Can anyone verify or provide greater info? It's largely speculation now, so I don't wanna add it to the article. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 22:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
:They're probably [[goblin]]s, which have [GLOWTILE:'"'] and [GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]. Kobolds are the same way, except their eyes are yellow. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
::That probably explains it, then. Considering it hasn't happened since then, and since some of the enemies were also not wounded. Thanks. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 22:04, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

== Breathless ==

Playing as a vampire adventurer, I'm noticing a few things that the article doesn't mention. For one, my vamp doesn't need to breathe. At all. He can go as deep underwater as needed and never starts to drown. Would this mean they're good candidates for killing toxin-breathing creatures? Also, whenever I swam a long time as a non-vamp, I'd inevitably freeze to death. As a vamp (After I pissed off the only major civ on a continent...) I swam to another continent, swimming for a full day, roughly from sunrise to sunset. He's also never been tired, even in during one of his several massacres. So I looked up the raws: NOEXERT:NOPAIN:NOBREATHE:NOSTUN:NONAUSEA:NO_DIZZINESS:NO_FEVERS:PARALYZEIMMUNE:NO_EAT:NO_DRINK:NO_SLEEP:NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN:NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST:START:0]
So they cannot get tired, cannot feel pain, don't breathe (As I discovered), can't be stunned, made nauseous, feel dizzy, get fevers, be paralyzed... so they're pretty much perfect candidates for fighting random Forgotten Beasts that emit those gases. Of course, that NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN is pretty annoying. <mods it out>. Much better. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 22:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

== How to seal in a vampire ==

I'm pretty sure I got a positive - huge background list (been part of +50 fortresses) - his desc say's he's thirsty... and it has been a while since a corpse has been found drained of blood - plus the Dwarf Therapist name check also listed the joker under a different name

I'm thinking drafting, then putting him in a room and sealing him behind a stone floodgate? It shouldn't be possible for him to escape that, right?
[[User:Webkilla|webkillal]] - may 6th 2012

v0.34 Talk:Vampire

2012-05-06T09:50:42Z

Webkilla: /* How to seal in a vampire */ new section

User:Webkilla

2009-12-11T21:18:09Z

Webkilla: Created page with 'Hi another DF user been playing since.... late 2009, start of november i think? sounds about right got most of the details worked out - love the game :D'

Hi

another DF user

been playing since.... late 2009, start of november i think? sounds about right

got most of the details worked out - love the game :D

40d Talk:Tower-cap

2009-12-11T21:17:12Z

Webkilla:

this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

You have a GirlFriend?--[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 13:07, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==
Is it essential that the pond is already there? 
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...? 
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles. But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods. 
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Cost of wood? What? It's 3☼ each! And why are tree farms needed if I don't have trees? I build in a desert. No trees there, and I have about a hundred unused wood. Granted, I haven't started the clear glass industry or the siege industry, but wood is only needed for beds, clear/crystal glass, and siege engine parts. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Personally I always choose to live near a forest, but it's quite acceptable to buy wood from traders. Though you may run into dry-spells if the caravans don't come for a year. I'd recommend having at least 100 logs at any time. Just in case you need to build lots of beds. You can build most other things from stone instead. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:13, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I presume you're living next to a volcano in that desert, since 3 metal bars per bin or barrel is 4 bars more than I'm willing to use, and 3 bars plus fuel is just nuts. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:03, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Aye. Why live in a desert if not for massive glass industries?
:::::Oh, and I don't make bins or barrels with anything – they aren't needed and are in fact annoying if you have OCD management. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::Hm.. I suppose that would work if you don't make [[Dwarven syrup]]... --[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I don't – I find it as cheaty as boozecooking, which is easier, and almost identical to boozecooking. However, I do boozecook, which does use a lot of barrels for alcohol. If you buy barreled stuff from caravans and ask for it in the trade agreement, you can easily get a lot of barrels.
:::::::Worst case, you'll use up all your barrels. Then, all you have to do is put more labor sooner into cooking the stuff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::Was just saying, that some might complain about it. I myself seem to never have enough barrels for alcohol after I get a population over 30. I just like to have an "emergency" warehouse of booze, which takes barrels upon barrels... And syrup is always handy to have around. Also, in my personal opinion, all space-saving is good. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::::Hmmm, you must have some gigantic storerooms then savok!  --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::::Not really. I quickly get rid of everything except prepared meals and booze, and I trade away prepared meals under ten food units.  --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Spontaneous generation and rocks ==
I have had tower-caps spawn in underground soil, far from my irrigated area and without any muddiness or exposure to the outside. (Though not many). Also, I assume you have to clear rocks in order for them to spawn on muddy cavern tiles?
[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:39, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Prospecting in version 0.28.181.39+ ==

Does the newer prospecting feature reveal underground rivers and lakes? I haven't used DF for more than world generation in the new version... If so, the article mentions "currently very difficult to do", which can be changed. --[[User:JT|JT]] 19:08, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:It does, so I have. :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 06:47, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== The tower cap farm part is pretty much useless... ==

Do we need that tower cap farm part?
It takes more space than the main article and doesn't add much info.
Also, it has incorrect information (tower cap farm should be flooded with more water than just to cover all tiles with '1's, because some of them will dry while flooding).
Just link to article about farming and irrigation. It explains it well enough. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 20:04, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Muddied soil ==

I have had mined-out peat sit barren for several seasons with an exposed cave river. After I muddied some of it, vegetation started growing (on the muddy part) before all the water was dry. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 9 February 2009 (EST)

:OK, how do you explain green towercaps '''growing in my not muddied corridors'''? If you don't know, don't post: tower caps grow on: muddied underground anything, OR '''not muddied underground soil, if there is a solid soil wall on the level below'''. Just as every other tree it will not grow on not buddied soil, if there is no soil wall underneath. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:dorten|dorten]]

::You're leaving out too much info. What is the source of this information? Did you test it, or is it second hand? If you tested it, what kind of test did you do? If it's second hand, where is it from? Have you ruled out different behaviors for different soils? Also, if you're confident enough about this to write in such an arrogant tone, why have you not edited any of this information into the article? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:44, 10 February 2009 (EST)
:::Sorry for arrogant tone, keeping emotions low isn't one of my skills :). Anyway, The sourceof this information is my experience. Especially in my latest forts, where I needed wood on a regular basis. My tests:
normal soil with trees, aboveground => all ok
dig out the room underneath => trees and bushes stop to grow above.
dig channels, so, that there's a stone under soil => only grass grows.
belowground muddied stone => bushes and towercaps
belowground multilevel soil => bushes and towercaps (green ones, yay!)
remove soil beneath => they stop growing
only soil floor => they do not grow
muddying in last two cases => yay! they grow again.
The tests I did not finished yet (working on them now) -
remove soil layer from below of natural aboveground forest (no new trees), and muddy it after that
muddy channeled to abovegroundness areas in suitable biomes.
do it with or without cave river/pond
Regards. (And I really am sorry for my tone)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:39, 10 February 2009 (EST)

::::This does not work - after 2 years still no sign of vegetation on soil (sandy loam cavern floor) with soil layer below (sandy loam walls), while my tree farm on muddied tiles runs fine. Can you give more specifics? Does there have to be more than 2 layers of soil? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::It had to happen - just when i start to complain, the first (yes, green) shrub shows up. Took forever, but yep, it's there. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
::::::I've got a pretty good counterexample to the idea that a solid soil wall is required underneath an unmuddied soil floor - right now, in my current fortress, I have a fully grown tower-cap growing on a tile of dry black sand between two of my farm plots. If I navigate down 1 Z-level, the area underneath consists of mined-out [[chalk]] (specifically, an archery range with unmined chalk walls separating each lane). I also have 2 other tower-caps which grew on dry black sand such that the tiles immediately below them are black sand ''floors'', mined out to create stockpile space. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::::I should add, though, that I have several other areas of black sand with mined-out chalk underneath them which have ''not'' shown any signs of plant growth - perhaps it has something to do with proximity to a mountain biome? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I am building my first tower cap farms now and it seems to be that I can only get them to grow in half of my fortress no matter what. I remember on the embark screen that my area spans two biomes and the border between where they will and won't grow seems similar - perhaps tower caps can only grow in soil in the same biome as the underground river that makes it possible to grow them?

== Growing Tower Caps Without Water ==
So I've been growing tower caps without water for quite some time
Trick is to carve out a sandy room near the edge, as you'll see in the picture, there's a border of usually 1 block between the carved sandy room, and the outside natural world. I believe that outside needs to be forested, but I haven't tested that enough yet.
In any case this seems to circumvent the need for water. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 10:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
[[File:Towercaps-sandy.jpg]]

:See the article (and entry above) for an explanation - sand is a soil --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

== '''unmuddied''' soil ==
Okay, folks, I don't know whats going on with you, but I have a huge cavern of sand floor with stone below and not a single shrub or tree there for years. This is also consistent with all fortresses i had so far. On those tiles with soil below, caps grow just fine, same with my muddied tree farm on stone. Guess I will wait for a few years more.. Im not even the one who came up with this, but only learned that from testing it..see also [[Talk:Irrigation]] --[[User:Frickinglogin|Frickinglogin]] 21:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:Tell that to my fortress, where I've got a few tower-caps which have grown on dry sand floors with air underneath them, and a few of which originally had stone underneath them (see [http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-6986-wasprag here], specifically the farms on Z-level 16 - this one only has saplings, but a few of them have since fully grown). Then again, I've got other sand nearby which won't grow anything at all (same map, but the refuse pile on Z-level 15 and the hallway to the left)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
::I, too, have TC's with nothing underneath, and they grow great. But I also believe those who say otherwise - I think this is an area where both parties have blindly assumed "X = Y", when in fact there's much more going on, variables that cause it to work sometimes, and not others. Since it seems to be consistent with each player (no player I've seen has said "sometimes..."), it's either habitual choice of maps, habitual play element, or <shudder> some obscure programming glitch specific to some computers, along the lines of the sort of thing that causes some computers to gen worlds differently. Whatever, I think more is going on here than we understand.

::(For one, I've notice that TC's growing on dry soil tend to grow better "near" water - at the edge of irrigation, near a damp wall, or closer to a river (that level or 1 below). Just as fire imp fat reacts differently at different times (sometimes it burns, sometimes it explodes), perhaps TC's are more sensitive to subtleties in the game that we are only beginning to suspect.) ''(Best explanation of FI fat is map temperature! Who would have guessed that connection?)''

::That said... what do we do about it? I'd suggest (reluctantly) backing the article off, and simply stating that both effects have been observed, and the variable is not perfectly understood. Because neither "yes" nor "no" is universally true or applicable.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:26, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I have a theory as to what's going on, based on what you've observed - just as Willow trees, fisher berries, muck roots, rat weeds, sun berries, kobold bulbs, and rope reeds only grow within 2 tiles of a river or murky pool, tower-caps also grow on soil such that either there's a solid soil wall underneath within a 2 tile radius '''or''' there's a muddy tile on the same level within a 2 tile radius, even if the tile immediately underneath is stone. It certainly fits with what I've seen, since all of my farm plots are irrigated, and I observed similar behavior in my last fortress with above-ground trees growing only in certain spots over the stockpile rooms I had dug out. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

== tried to clean up and clarify the page ==

The main paragraph with all the good info looked somewhat muddled together. I tried to improve it and make it easier for new DF players to understand.

[[User:webkilla|webkilla]]

40d:Tower-cap

2009-12-11T21:15:10Z

Webkilla:

'''Tower-caps''' are a type of mushroom-like [[subterranean]] [[tree]]. Once fully grown, they can be designated for [[wood cutting]] and produce tower-cap [[log]]s. Tower-caps will grow ''only if'' you have discovered an [[underground]] [[river]] or [[underground pool]]. Such features can be located using the [[site finder]] and on the local view during embarkation, if the relevant [[init]] and [[world generation]] parameters are set. As with normal trees, they take about 1 and a half years to fully grow.

== Underground tree farms ==

1: If you have discovered an underground river or pool, tower-caps will start spontaneously growing in ''[[Irrigation|muddied]]'' subterranean areas (rock or soil), or any subterranean soil, though muddied soil has a denser production than dry soil.

2: This basically means that if you irrigate an underground area you will have MUCH BETTER CHANCE of getting tower caps to grow there

3: The distance or [[path]] to the underground river does not matter. Simply discovering an underground pool or river is enough. (does not work if you use reveal.exe)

4: It is thus possible to make a (big) safe underground chamber where your dwarves may harvest wood without exposing themselves to the dangers of the surface world.

5: harvesting tower caps will anger the elves just like normal wood harvesting.

On the subject of spawning tower-caps, [[Toady]] said:
<blockquote>''Right now, you can't plant tower-caps or bring spawn along, so you need to find a cave river or cave pool, in which case they will start growing underground if it's all working. It's trickier to find such things, so it's mostly impossible to do.1 Later, you should be able to plant them. There are no arbitrary vegetation caps now2.''</blockquote>
::1: Note that it ''is'' working and that underground rivers are not that rare any more.
::2: The "arbitrary vegetation caps" comment is referring to the old limit of 200 tower caps growing by the [[cave river]] in the [[mud]].

To design a tower-cap "farm", refer also to the [[Irrigation#Easier.2C_safer_irrigation|irrigation]] article.

Beware that young tower caps, like young [[tree]]s, are fragile and will be quickly killed if repeatedly walked upon.

{{Game_Data|[MATGLOSS_WOOD:GIANT_SHROOM]
[NAME:tower-cap][ADJ:tower-cap]
[TILE:5]
[PREFSTRING:great size]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[SOLID_DENSITY:600]}}
{{Wood FAQ}}

[[Category:Trees]]