Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Pig iron

2009-04-23T23:15:07Z

Toloran: /* Mandate bug? */

[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
Are you sure [[charcoal]] from wood counts as a coal bar? I remember reading this wasn't the case. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:00, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:I can approve that charcoal from wood logs is a valid material for steel production from heavy personal experience. It is good that we do not have strict WP:OR here.--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:13, 18 December 2007 (EST)

== Mandate bug? ==

My [[Tax collector]] has just given a [[mandate]] to make two pig iron items. If you can't make anything from pig iron, is this a bug? If not, how do I satisfy this mandate?! --[[User:Actreal|Actreal]] 06:15, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:try building a bridge, or making steel bars-note that failure in a mandate only causes an unhappy thought. This is easily countered by upgrading his rooms with something he needs/likes.
::Making steel bars does satisfy this mandate. Constructions (bridges, floors) do not. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 23:56, 7 November 2008 (EST)
:::I have a mayor who has mandated the construction of a pig iron item. Tried making a steel bar, no success. Made another, still no change in mandate. --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 12:07, 30 January 2009 (EST)
::::I just got a mandate for 3 pig iron items. I had none at the time so I told a furnace to smelt {R}. Before I could build anything the mandate was completed. I am certain that smelting the bars is what filled the mandate.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 16:39, 17 February 2009 (EST)
:::::That's right, cultiststeve. You can fill mandates by creating bars OF a particular metal. The same effect applies to Bismuth. --[[User:Torasin|Torasin]] 18:57, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::::::I've made 4-6 bars of steel and the mandate is still there =\ --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 23:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-04-08T04:10:56Z

Toloran: /* Just standing around? */

Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Rough Gems ==

EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Regarding "why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems" -- it is good enough. I've had fey dwarves grab raw green glass a half-dozen times. I think it's more likely that all the raw green glass in your fortress was TASKED, and therefore unavailable to the fey dwarf. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

40d Talk:Meat industry

2009-03-31T05:12:09Z

Toloran: /* Contact for breeding */

==Contact for breeding==
Removed the verify for livestock breeding without being in contact; I've personally witnessed a female camel and a female horse locked deep inside my fortress get telepathically impregnated by outside animals. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Drawfirons|Drawfirons]]

: Telepathically impregnated by ''wild'' outside animals? It's not part of the original question, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST)
::I had only a female horse, and it had a baby. It is still early, but it may have been from the wild outside horses, or she may have started pregnant.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I too had this happen but with a Muskox. For a second I was worried I had a case of Muskox jesus on my hands.--[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 05:12, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

==Non-renewable resource==
I feel it should be mentioned somewhere that both hunting and livestock are non-renewable without some luck as to what animals are brought as pets with immigrants. Tame animals (those that are not pets) seem to be considered 'wild' in that they obey the limits set forth in the raw file for the number that will be 'spawned' (or born, if you will) before hitting a max. Basically, unnamed animals will eventually stop breeding, and only those pets with names will continue to breed. Hence why [[catsplosion]] is so bad, and why it doesn't happen with any other animals. Barring the ability to assign other animals to dwarves (and hence, give them names) I don't think meat is a very viable industry in the long term. --Gotthard 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've seen one player claim that wild animals can be hunted to extinction. I haven't seen that myself. Barring that, hunting is renewable, albeit limited.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:06, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Are you saying there's a cap on live+deceased animals? If livestock doesn't need to cross paths in order to impregnate, then the meat industry is perfectly viable, although there may be some framerate issues if you choose to do more than one type of livestock -- just list one bull and eight cows as available for adoption. As for the extinction thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Cancel Hunt messages that say something like "There are no animals in the swamps" or somesuch? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::I have no idea what the "extinct animals" poster had experienced. I have my doubts about the claim, but can't rule out that it happened, at least to him.

:::There ''is'' a population cap on animals (per-species). It used to be 80, I believe, but it seems more like 50 these days. I haven't formally tested it, but my suspicion is that once you hit that population cap, breeding for that species ceases permanently, even if their count falls below the cap again. If that's true, then animal breeding is a finite resource, unless you cull their numbers carefully to keep them under the limit at all times.

:::I'm presently setting up a mega-corral, so I'll be testing it soon.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:When I say renewable, I mean will never run out. Trees are renewable, given space to grow. Hunted animals are not. It isn't a *claim* that animals can be hunted to extinction, the numbers are in the raws for each particular animal. After that many of animals exist (living or dead I presume), no more are generated, whether through off-map activity, or being born as offspring. The same is true for livestock brought with you, or traded. The only animals that do NOT obey this limitation are pets (and perhaps named animals in general). I have had the same base for 15 years, and I haven't had any offspring from horses, dogs, or cows in about 9ish years. However, there are still animals being born, and I've traced the number per year back to the number of female pets I have. I'm not sure if named pets only mate with named pets, but a single female pet doesn't seem to yield any offspring (but this should be verified). I had about 20ish puppies per year at max, and it abruptly stopped. It has recently started up again, as puppies brought as pets have matured. Same thing for horses and cows, but it is slow. Frankly, with immigration stopping, and no way to assign pets (iirc?) my animal "home grown" animal supply will soon dry out. The same is not true of turtles, they seem to respawn, but I think fish fall into this category, my river hasn't had anything but turtles for 10ish years. --Gotthard 23:20, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::Well, if you're referring to [POPULATION_NUMBER], [[Creature_tokens#P]] says that that is the minimum/maximum number that can show up on a map in the space of a year. I've killed something like 150 bonobos on my map, but they're still coming.

::Tame animals, on the other hand, clearly have hard population limits (otherwise they'd breed into the thousands and turn every fortress into a "tribbles" episode). As I posted above, it appears that once that population limit is reached, breeding stops permanently (I'll have to test it further at some point). As far as I can tell, however, that limit does not apply to wildlife. It probably doesn't apply to wildlife even after you've hit the limit on tame animals of the same species. (It's been a while, but I once had a fort with a bunch of domesticated musk oxen. I think wild ones still showed up long after the tame ones stopped breeding.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do you know if this was changed recently? Best I can recall, EVERY fortress I've started has eventually killed off all non-aggressive wildlife. I'm not sure, but bonobos may be somehow classified as 'invaders' (aren't they the ones that steal everything?) so perhaps there are no limits on them. It takes me ~3 years to kill off all the wildlife on my map, and after that nothing else shows up. I took the numbers in the raw to be a global maximum in existence... I can verify tame animals stop breeding after a max is hit, and they do NOT start breeding again after the number goes below this. However, I'm fairly certain there is a max limit present for tame animals, as I went through cows pretty regularly, culling the population to keep it manageable. My money is on a global max ever, not alive at any one point, but I could be wrong. (Also, I think wild and tame ones are calculated separately... does your tone indicate they eventually stopped as well?)--Gotthard 22:08, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::::Bonobos are "wild animals" in my unit list, and they aren't one of the thieving species. I'm not sure whether all wildlife can be killed off; we need more people to chime in about their experiences. My bonobo death count is about 200 now, and shows no sign of stopping. (I've been using nerve-injured soldiers, not hunters, to do the killing.) However, I also finally have a breeding stock of tame bonobos, and I'll let them breed up to the max to see if affects their migrating onto the map. My bet is that the species cap is just for breeding, not migration.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:13, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I'm not doubting your experience, but I've had 4-5 maps where I consistently run out of deer. The species cap there seems to function fine, I *never* had any deer offspring, just hunted them for a while until they stopped (year 3-4ish). I can't verify wolves, however. So bonobos aren't predatory at all? I was thinking maybe more 'aggressive' animals (even if they're not thieves) may reproduce ad infitum. Or perhaps I scared them all off with my deer genocide? I mean anytime a deer showed up, I had 3 guys run down and punch it to death. Are you nicer to your bonobos? And have you seen that with any other animals? I've run out of hoary marmonts, mountain goats, and deer (on separate maps). Sorry to be insistent, but this seems like one area we don't have a lot of info. --Gotthard 22:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::::::No, I understand -- I'd like to figure it out too. Actually, on my current map, something totally unexpected happened. I've been keeping all my strays (of any species) in cages, and I haven't had any cow births since the beginning of the game. I've also been buying every animal brought by traders, so was well above the limit. I decided to slaughter all my cows to see what would happen. I killed all of them, or nearly so, and suddenly all the pet cows are giving birth. (There are 4 pet cows and two pet bulls in the fortress.)

::::::As for the wild bonobos, they're still coming. And elephants. And mountain goats. And hoary marmots. None of them are predators. (I do get zombie mountain goats and hoary marmots as well.) But I've been posting soldiers to kill them for years now, and have killed many hundreds of animals. Some animals tend to escape, since the soldiers stay near their station point instead of tracking down every last animal, like hunters will. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

::::::I did have a single crocodile and some ogres show up in the first year, and never again. For any given fortress, there may just be some animals that are finite and some that are unlimited. We should post to the forums soliciting other players' experiences to see what kind of generalizations can be made.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::I had pet horses start to breed when I butchered most of the stray horses. So that part, at least, seems to be reproduceable.

:::::::I had three waves or so of macaques spawn, running them down with soldiers each time, and now they've stopped coming (they came about once a year for three years, and then I haven't seen them in the eight years since).

:::::::The map keeps spawning one- and two-humped camels. I trap and tame them, but nobody's interested in adopting them. It'll be interesting to see if eventually I run out. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 12:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::::::::Are they still in cages? Dwarves won't adopt them unless they're roaming (or maybe on a chain... I haven't tested that yet).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::::Huh, is that for all livestock? No wonder I have such issues getting those tamed vermin adopted... I stuck them all in a cage for convenience. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Breeding turtles ==

While it doesn't really fall under the category of the "leather industry" that the top of the page claims, is it possible to do animal husbandry with turtles? It would be nice to be able to have a ready supply of them. I lack unfrozen water on my current map, so I can't rely on spawning turtles, but I do have three tame turtles from the caravans. My suspicion is that vermin aren't treated as animals, so there's to be no turtle breeding, but I know they are special cases in other ways, so I figured it might be worth a try. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think it's possible to release tame vermin from containment. They're always either in a cage, or in a small animal trap. That would keep them from breeding even if they were otherwise normal animals.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Vermin may be released from their cage if they are adopted by a dwarf, AFAIK. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:50, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Oh, the "leather industry" is a hold-over from before I moved the original page to "Meat industry". I keep meaning to give this a spruce up ... --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:38, 20 November 2008 (EST)

: What if I were to build an enclosed pool inside my fortress and mark it as a [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit]]. Would I be able to dump caught turtles into it, or does the [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit/pond]] classification only account for [[animals]] and not [[vermin]]? I've never checked before. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:52, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:: *checks* Looks like you can assign tame vermin to a pit. I don't think you can breed turtles though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting....Since you're only trying to breed turtles, I guess you can just channel a few squares and mark it as a pit. It's faster since the dwarves do take a heck of a long time to fill pools. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]]

==A death by any other means==
I made a note that if an animal is killed by something other than a hunter or butcher it cannot be butchered, based on my experience of 2 dogs being killed by a werewolf and being unbutcherable. GreyMario changed it to "certain animals need to be alive when taken to the butchery". Dorten removed the note entirely. I'll admit my experience was several versions ago - can you butcher any dead unrotten creature now? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:49, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that there are cases where killed animals are rendered unbutcherable. In my case, I brought a boatload of cats for short-term butchering, only to find that I quickly dug into an underground river, and have a dozen snakemen, etc, come out and kill half the cats. Even though they were marked for butchering before they died (I hadn't yet built a butcher shop,) only those that escaped slithering death were ever butchered, the rest sat in my refuse stockpile rotting along with the river-raiders. Oh, yes.. I even went and tried unforbidding them just incase; They weren't. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:35, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::This only applies to tame animals. I have several experiences where caravan guards killed wild naked mole dogs and elks that came in the way. I butchered them all.

40d Talk:Meat industry

2009-03-31T05:11:53Z

Toloran: /* Contact for breeding */

==Contact for breeding==
Removed the verify for livestock breeding without being in contact; I've personally witnessed a female camel and a female horse locked deep inside my fortress get telepathically impregnated by outside animals. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Drawfirons|Drawfirons]]

: Telepathically impregnated by ''wild'' outside animals? It's not part of the original question, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST)
::I had only a female horse, and it had a baby. It is still early, but it may have been from the wild outside horses, or she may have started pregnant.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I too had this happen but with a Muskox. For a second I was worried I had a case of Muskox jesus on my hands.

==Non-renewable resource==
I feel it should be mentioned somewhere that both hunting and livestock are non-renewable without some luck as to what animals are brought as pets with immigrants. Tame animals (those that are not pets) seem to be considered 'wild' in that they obey the limits set forth in the raw file for the number that will be 'spawned' (or born, if you will) before hitting a max. Basically, unnamed animals will eventually stop breeding, and only those pets with names will continue to breed. Hence why [[catsplosion]] is so bad, and why it doesn't happen with any other animals. Barring the ability to assign other animals to dwarves (and hence, give them names) I don't think meat is a very viable industry in the long term. --Gotthard 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've seen one player claim that wild animals can be hunted to extinction. I haven't seen that myself. Barring that, hunting is renewable, albeit limited.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:06, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Are you saying there's a cap on live+deceased animals? If livestock doesn't need to cross paths in order to impregnate, then the meat industry is perfectly viable, although there may be some framerate issues if you choose to do more than one type of livestock -- just list one bull and eight cows as available for adoption. As for the extinction thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Cancel Hunt messages that say something like "There are no animals in the swamps" or somesuch? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::I have no idea what the "extinct animals" poster had experienced. I have my doubts about the claim, but can't rule out that it happened, at least to him.

:::There ''is'' a population cap on animals (per-species). It used to be 80, I believe, but it seems more like 50 these days. I haven't formally tested it, but my suspicion is that once you hit that population cap, breeding for that species ceases permanently, even if their count falls below the cap again. If that's true, then animal breeding is a finite resource, unless you cull their numbers carefully to keep them under the limit at all times.

:::I'm presently setting up a mega-corral, so I'll be testing it soon.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:When I say renewable, I mean will never run out. Trees are renewable, given space to grow. Hunted animals are not. It isn't a *claim* that animals can be hunted to extinction, the numbers are in the raws for each particular animal. After that many of animals exist (living or dead I presume), no more are generated, whether through off-map activity, or being born as offspring. The same is true for livestock brought with you, or traded. The only animals that do NOT obey this limitation are pets (and perhaps named animals in general). I have had the same base for 15 years, and I haven't had any offspring from horses, dogs, or cows in about 9ish years. However, there are still animals being born, and I've traced the number per year back to the number of female pets I have. I'm not sure if named pets only mate with named pets, but a single female pet doesn't seem to yield any offspring (but this should be verified). I had about 20ish puppies per year at max, and it abruptly stopped. It has recently started up again, as puppies brought as pets have matured. Same thing for horses and cows, but it is slow. Frankly, with immigration stopping, and no way to assign pets (iirc?) my animal "home grown" animal supply will soon dry out. The same is not true of turtles, they seem to respawn, but I think fish fall into this category, my river hasn't had anything but turtles for 10ish years. --Gotthard 23:20, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::Well, if you're referring to [POPULATION_NUMBER], [[Creature_tokens#P]] says that that is the minimum/maximum number that can show up on a map in the space of a year. I've killed something like 150 bonobos on my map, but they're still coming.

::Tame animals, on the other hand, clearly have hard population limits (otherwise they'd breed into the thousands and turn every fortress into a "tribbles" episode). As I posted above, it appears that once that population limit is reached, breeding stops permanently (I'll have to test it further at some point). As far as I can tell, however, that limit does not apply to wildlife. It probably doesn't apply to wildlife even after you've hit the limit on tame animals of the same species. (It's been a while, but I once had a fort with a bunch of domesticated musk oxen. I think wild ones still showed up long after the tame ones stopped breeding.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do you know if this was changed recently? Best I can recall, EVERY fortress I've started has eventually killed off all non-aggressive wildlife. I'm not sure, but bonobos may be somehow classified as 'invaders' (aren't they the ones that steal everything?) so perhaps there are no limits on them. It takes me ~3 years to kill off all the wildlife on my map, and after that nothing else shows up. I took the numbers in the raw to be a global maximum in existence... I can verify tame animals stop breeding after a max is hit, and they do NOT start breeding again after the number goes below this. However, I'm fairly certain there is a max limit present for tame animals, as I went through cows pretty regularly, culling the population to keep it manageable. My money is on a global max ever, not alive at any one point, but I could be wrong. (Also, I think wild and tame ones are calculated separately... does your tone indicate they eventually stopped as well?)--Gotthard 22:08, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::::Bonobos are "wild animals" in my unit list, and they aren't one of the thieving species. I'm not sure whether all wildlife can be killed off; we need more people to chime in about their experiences. My bonobo death count is about 200 now, and shows no sign of stopping. (I've been using nerve-injured soldiers, not hunters, to do the killing.) However, I also finally have a breeding stock of tame bonobos, and I'll let them breed up to the max to see if affects their migrating onto the map. My bet is that the species cap is just for breeding, not migration.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:13, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I'm not doubting your experience, but I've had 4-5 maps where I consistently run out of deer. The species cap there seems to function fine, I *never* had any deer offspring, just hunted them for a while until they stopped (year 3-4ish). I can't verify wolves, however. So bonobos aren't predatory at all? I was thinking maybe more 'aggressive' animals (even if they're not thieves) may reproduce ad infitum. Or perhaps I scared them all off with my deer genocide? I mean anytime a deer showed up, I had 3 guys run down and punch it to death. Are you nicer to your bonobos? And have you seen that with any other animals? I've run out of hoary marmonts, mountain goats, and deer (on separate maps). Sorry to be insistent, but this seems like one area we don't have a lot of info. --Gotthard 22:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::::::No, I understand -- I'd like to figure it out too. Actually, on my current map, something totally unexpected happened. I've been keeping all my strays (of any species) in cages, and I haven't had any cow births since the beginning of the game. I've also been buying every animal brought by traders, so was well above the limit. I decided to slaughter all my cows to see what would happen. I killed all of them, or nearly so, and suddenly all the pet cows are giving birth. (There are 4 pet cows and two pet bulls in the fortress.)

::::::As for the wild bonobos, they're still coming. And elephants. And mountain goats. And hoary marmots. None of them are predators. (I do get zombie mountain goats and hoary marmots as well.) But I've been posting soldiers to kill them for years now, and have killed many hundreds of animals. Some animals tend to escape, since the soldiers stay near their station point instead of tracking down every last animal, like hunters will. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

::::::I did have a single crocodile and some ogres show up in the first year, and never again. For any given fortress, there may just be some animals that are finite and some that are unlimited. We should post to the forums soliciting other players' experiences to see what kind of generalizations can be made.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::I had pet horses start to breed when I butchered most of the stray horses. So that part, at least, seems to be reproduceable.

:::::::I had three waves or so of macaques spawn, running them down with soldiers each time, and now they've stopped coming (they came about once a year for three years, and then I haven't seen them in the eight years since).

:::::::The map keeps spawning one- and two-humped camels. I trap and tame them, but nobody's interested in adopting them. It'll be interesting to see if eventually I run out. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 12:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::::::::Are they still in cages? Dwarves won't adopt them unless they're roaming (or maybe on a chain... I haven't tested that yet).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::::Huh, is that for all livestock? No wonder I have such issues getting those tamed vermin adopted... I stuck them all in a cage for convenience. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Breeding turtles ==

While it doesn't really fall under the category of the "leather industry" that the top of the page claims, is it possible to do animal husbandry with turtles? It would be nice to be able to have a ready supply of them. I lack unfrozen water on my current map, so I can't rely on spawning turtles, but I do have three tame turtles from the caravans. My suspicion is that vermin aren't treated as animals, so there's to be no turtle breeding, but I know they are special cases in other ways, so I figured it might be worth a try. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think it's possible to release tame vermin from containment. They're always either in a cage, or in a small animal trap. That would keep them from breeding even if they were otherwise normal animals.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Vermin may be released from their cage if they are adopted by a dwarf, AFAIK. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:50, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Oh, the "leather industry" is a hold-over from before I moved the original page to "Meat industry". I keep meaning to give this a spruce up ... --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:38, 20 November 2008 (EST)

: What if I were to build an enclosed pool inside my fortress and mark it as a [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit]]. Would I be able to dump caught turtles into it, or does the [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit/pond]] classification only account for [[animals]] and not [[vermin]]? I've never checked before. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:52, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:: *checks* Looks like you can assign tame vermin to a pit. I don't think you can breed turtles though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting....Since you're only trying to breed turtles, I guess you can just channel a few squares and mark it as a pit. It's faster since the dwarves do take a heck of a long time to fill pools. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]]

==A death by any other means==
I made a note that if an animal is killed by something other than a hunter or butcher it cannot be butchered, based on my experience of 2 dogs being killed by a werewolf and being unbutcherable. GreyMario changed it to "certain animals need to be alive when taken to the butchery". Dorten removed the note entirely. I'll admit my experience was several versions ago - can you butcher any dead unrotten creature now? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:49, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that there are cases where killed animals are rendered unbutcherable. In my case, I brought a boatload of cats for short-term butchering, only to find that I quickly dug into an underground river, and have a dozen snakemen, etc, come out and kill half the cats. Even though they were marked for butchering before they died (I hadn't yet built a butcher shop,) only those that escaped slithering death were ever butchered, the rest sat in my refuse stockpile rotting along with the river-raiders. Oh, yes.. I even went and tried unforbidding them just incase; They weren't. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:35, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::This only applies to tame animals. I have several experiences where caravan guards killed wild naked mole dogs and elks that came in the way. I butchered them all.

40d Talk:Meat industry

2009-03-31T05:10:11Z

Toloran: /* A death by any other means */ EDIT: I'm stupid found a started post on it.

==Contact for breeding==
Removed the verify for livestock breeding without being in contact; I've personally witnessed a female camel and a female horse locked deep inside my fortress get telepathically impregnated by outside animals. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Drawfirons|Drawfirons]]

: Telepathically impregnated by ''wild'' outside animals? It's not part of the original question, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST)
::I had only a female horse, and it had a baby. It is still early, but it may have been from the wild outside horses, or she may have started pregnant.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)

==Non-renewable resource==
I feel it should be mentioned somewhere that both hunting and livestock are non-renewable without some luck as to what animals are brought as pets with immigrants. Tame animals (those that are not pets) seem to be considered 'wild' in that they obey the limits set forth in the raw file for the number that will be 'spawned' (or born, if you will) before hitting a max. Basically, unnamed animals will eventually stop breeding, and only those pets with names will continue to breed. Hence why [[catsplosion]] is so bad, and why it doesn't happen with any other animals. Barring the ability to assign other animals to dwarves (and hence, give them names) I don't think meat is a very viable industry in the long term. --Gotthard 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've seen one player claim that wild animals can be hunted to extinction. I haven't seen that myself. Barring that, hunting is renewable, albeit limited.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:06, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Are you saying there's a cap on live+deceased animals? If livestock doesn't need to cross paths in order to impregnate, then the meat industry is perfectly viable, although there may be some framerate issues if you choose to do more than one type of livestock -- just list one bull and eight cows as available for adoption. As for the extinction thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Cancel Hunt messages that say something like "There are no animals in the swamps" or somesuch? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::I have no idea what the "extinct animals" poster had experienced. I have my doubts about the claim, but can't rule out that it happened, at least to him.

:::There ''is'' a population cap on animals (per-species). It used to be 80, I believe, but it seems more like 50 these days. I haven't formally tested it, but my suspicion is that once you hit that population cap, breeding for that species ceases permanently, even if their count falls below the cap again. If that's true, then animal breeding is a finite resource, unless you cull their numbers carefully to keep them under the limit at all times.

:::I'm presently setting up a mega-corral, so I'll be testing it soon.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:When I say renewable, I mean will never run out. Trees are renewable, given space to grow. Hunted animals are not. It isn't a *claim* that animals can be hunted to extinction, the numbers are in the raws for each particular animal. After that many of animals exist (living or dead I presume), no more are generated, whether through off-map activity, or being born as offspring. The same is true for livestock brought with you, or traded. The only animals that do NOT obey this limitation are pets (and perhaps named animals in general). I have had the same base for 15 years, and I haven't had any offspring from horses, dogs, or cows in about 9ish years. However, there are still animals being born, and I've traced the number per year back to the number of female pets I have. I'm not sure if named pets only mate with named pets, but a single female pet doesn't seem to yield any offspring (but this should be verified). I had about 20ish puppies per year at max, and it abruptly stopped. It has recently started up again, as puppies brought as pets have matured. Same thing for horses and cows, but it is slow. Frankly, with immigration stopping, and no way to assign pets (iirc?) my animal "home grown" animal supply will soon dry out. The same is not true of turtles, they seem to respawn, but I think fish fall into this category, my river hasn't had anything but turtles for 10ish years. --Gotthard 23:20, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::Well, if you're referring to [POPULATION_NUMBER], [[Creature_tokens#P]] says that that is the minimum/maximum number that can show up on a map in the space of a year. I've killed something like 150 bonobos on my map, but they're still coming.

::Tame animals, on the other hand, clearly have hard population limits (otherwise they'd breed into the thousands and turn every fortress into a "tribbles" episode). As I posted above, it appears that once that population limit is reached, breeding stops permanently (I'll have to test it further at some point). As far as I can tell, however, that limit does not apply to wildlife. It probably doesn't apply to wildlife even after you've hit the limit on tame animals of the same species. (It's been a while, but I once had a fort with a bunch of domesticated musk oxen. I think wild ones still showed up long after the tame ones stopped breeding.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do you know if this was changed recently? Best I can recall, EVERY fortress I've started has eventually killed off all non-aggressive wildlife. I'm not sure, but bonobos may be somehow classified as 'invaders' (aren't they the ones that steal everything?) so perhaps there are no limits on them. It takes me ~3 years to kill off all the wildlife on my map, and after that nothing else shows up. I took the numbers in the raw to be a global maximum in existence... I can verify tame animals stop breeding after a max is hit, and they do NOT start breeding again after the number goes below this. However, I'm fairly certain there is a max limit present for tame animals, as I went through cows pretty regularly, culling the population to keep it manageable. My money is on a global max ever, not alive at any one point, but I could be wrong. (Also, I think wild and tame ones are calculated separately... does your tone indicate they eventually stopped as well?)--Gotthard 22:08, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::::Bonobos are "wild animals" in my unit list, and they aren't one of the thieving species. I'm not sure whether all wildlife can be killed off; we need more people to chime in about their experiences. My bonobo death count is about 200 now, and shows no sign of stopping. (I've been using nerve-injured soldiers, not hunters, to do the killing.) However, I also finally have a breeding stock of tame bonobos, and I'll let them breed up to the max to see if affects their migrating onto the map. My bet is that the species cap is just for breeding, not migration.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:13, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I'm not doubting your experience, but I've had 4-5 maps where I consistently run out of deer. The species cap there seems to function fine, I *never* had any deer offspring, just hunted them for a while until they stopped (year 3-4ish). I can't verify wolves, however. So bonobos aren't predatory at all? I was thinking maybe more 'aggressive' animals (even if they're not thieves) may reproduce ad infitum. Or perhaps I scared them all off with my deer genocide? I mean anytime a deer showed up, I had 3 guys run down and punch it to death. Are you nicer to your bonobos? And have you seen that with any other animals? I've run out of hoary marmonts, mountain goats, and deer (on separate maps). Sorry to be insistent, but this seems like one area we don't have a lot of info. --Gotthard 22:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::::::No, I understand -- I'd like to figure it out too. Actually, on my current map, something totally unexpected happened. I've been keeping all my strays (of any species) in cages, and I haven't had any cow births since the beginning of the game. I've also been buying every animal brought by traders, so was well above the limit. I decided to slaughter all my cows to see what would happen. I killed all of them, or nearly so, and suddenly all the pet cows are giving birth. (There are 4 pet cows and two pet bulls in the fortress.)

::::::As for the wild bonobos, they're still coming. And elephants. And mountain goats. And hoary marmots. None of them are predators. (I do get zombie mountain goats and hoary marmots as well.) But I've been posting soldiers to kill them for years now, and have killed many hundreds of animals. Some animals tend to escape, since the soldiers stay near their station point instead of tracking down every last animal, like hunters will. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

::::::I did have a single crocodile and some ogres show up in the first year, and never again. For any given fortress, there may just be some animals that are finite and some that are unlimited. We should post to the forums soliciting other players' experiences to see what kind of generalizations can be made.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::I had pet horses start to breed when I butchered most of the stray horses. So that part, at least, seems to be reproduceable.

:::::::I had three waves or so of macaques spawn, running them down with soldiers each time, and now they've stopped coming (they came about once a year for three years, and then I haven't seen them in the eight years since).

:::::::The map keeps spawning one- and two-humped camels. I trap and tame them, but nobody's interested in adopting them. It'll be interesting to see if eventually I run out. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 12:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::::::::Are they still in cages? Dwarves won't adopt them unless they're roaming (or maybe on a chain... I haven't tested that yet).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::::Huh, is that for all livestock? No wonder I have such issues getting those tamed vermin adopted... I stuck them all in a cage for convenience. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Breeding turtles ==

While it doesn't really fall under the category of the "leather industry" that the top of the page claims, is it possible to do animal husbandry with turtles? It would be nice to be able to have a ready supply of them. I lack unfrozen water on my current map, so I can't rely on spawning turtles, but I do have three tame turtles from the caravans. My suspicion is that vermin aren't treated as animals, so there's to be no turtle breeding, but I know they are special cases in other ways, so I figured it might be worth a try. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think it's possible to release tame vermin from containment. They're always either in a cage, or in a small animal trap. That would keep them from breeding even if they were otherwise normal animals.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Vermin may be released from their cage if they are adopted by a dwarf, AFAIK. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:50, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Oh, the "leather industry" is a hold-over from before I moved the original page to "Meat industry". I keep meaning to give this a spruce up ... --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:38, 20 November 2008 (EST)

: What if I were to build an enclosed pool inside my fortress and mark it as a [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit]]. Would I be able to dump caught turtles into it, or does the [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit/pond]] classification only account for [[animals]] and not [[vermin]]? I've never checked before. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:52, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:: *checks* Looks like you can assign tame vermin to a pit. I don't think you can breed turtles though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting....Since you're only trying to breed turtles, I guess you can just channel a few squares and mark it as a pit. It's faster since the dwarves do take a heck of a long time to fill pools. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]]

==A death by any other means==
I made a note that if an animal is killed by something other than a hunter or butcher it cannot be butchered, based on my experience of 2 dogs being killed by a werewolf and being unbutcherable. GreyMario changed it to "certain animals need to be alive when taken to the butchery". Dorten removed the note entirely. I'll admit my experience was several versions ago - can you butcher any dead unrotten creature now? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:49, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that there are cases where killed animals are rendered unbutcherable. In my case, I brought a boatload of cats for short-term butchering, only to find that I quickly dug into an underground river, and have a dozen snakemen, etc, come out and kill half the cats. Even though they were marked for butchering before they died (I hadn't yet built a butcher shop,) only those that escaped slithering death were ever butchered, the rest sat in my refuse stockpile rotting along with the river-raiders. Oh, yes.. I even went and tried unforbidding them just incase; They weren't. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:35, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::This only applies to tame animals. I have several experiences where caravan guards killed wild naked mole dogs and elks that came in the way. I butchered them all.

40d Talk:Meat industry

2009-03-31T05:08:52Z

Toloran:

==Contact for breeding==
Removed the verify for livestock breeding without being in contact; I've personally witnessed a female camel and a female horse locked deep inside my fortress get telepathically impregnated by outside animals. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Drawfirons|Drawfirons]]

: Telepathically impregnated by ''wild'' outside animals? It's not part of the original question, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST)
::I had only a female horse, and it had a baby. It is still early, but it may have been from the wild outside horses, or she may have started pregnant.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)

==Non-renewable resource==
I feel it should be mentioned somewhere that both hunting and livestock are non-renewable without some luck as to what animals are brought as pets with immigrants. Tame animals (those that are not pets) seem to be considered 'wild' in that they obey the limits set forth in the raw file for the number that will be 'spawned' (or born, if you will) before hitting a max. Basically, unnamed animals will eventually stop breeding, and only those pets with names will continue to breed. Hence why [[catsplosion]] is so bad, and why it doesn't happen with any other animals. Barring the ability to assign other animals to dwarves (and hence, give them names) I don't think meat is a very viable industry in the long term. --Gotthard 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've seen one player claim that wild animals can be hunted to extinction. I haven't seen that myself. Barring that, hunting is renewable, albeit limited.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:06, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Are you saying there's a cap on live+deceased animals? If livestock doesn't need to cross paths in order to impregnate, then the meat industry is perfectly viable, although there may be some framerate issues if you choose to do more than one type of livestock -- just list one bull and eight cows as available for adoption. As for the extinction thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Cancel Hunt messages that say something like "There are no animals in the swamps" or somesuch? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::I have no idea what the "extinct animals" poster had experienced. I have my doubts about the claim, but can't rule out that it happened, at least to him.

:::There ''is'' a population cap on animals (per-species). It used to be 80, I believe, but it seems more like 50 these days. I haven't formally tested it, but my suspicion is that once you hit that population cap, breeding for that species ceases permanently, even if their count falls below the cap again. If that's true, then animal breeding is a finite resource, unless you cull their numbers carefully to keep them under the limit at all times.

:::I'm presently setting up a mega-corral, so I'll be testing it soon.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:When I say renewable, I mean will never run out. Trees are renewable, given space to grow. Hunted animals are not. It isn't a *claim* that animals can be hunted to extinction, the numbers are in the raws for each particular animal. After that many of animals exist (living or dead I presume), no more are generated, whether through off-map activity, or being born as offspring. The same is true for livestock brought with you, or traded. The only animals that do NOT obey this limitation are pets (and perhaps named animals in general). I have had the same base for 15 years, and I haven't had any offspring from horses, dogs, or cows in about 9ish years. However, there are still animals being born, and I've traced the number per year back to the number of female pets I have. I'm not sure if named pets only mate with named pets, but a single female pet doesn't seem to yield any offspring (but this should be verified). I had about 20ish puppies per year at max, and it abruptly stopped. It has recently started up again, as puppies brought as pets have matured. Same thing for horses and cows, but it is slow. Frankly, with immigration stopping, and no way to assign pets (iirc?) my animal "home grown" animal supply will soon dry out. The same is not true of turtles, they seem to respawn, but I think fish fall into this category, my river hasn't had anything but turtles for 10ish years. --Gotthard 23:20, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::Well, if you're referring to [POPULATION_NUMBER], [[Creature_tokens#P]] says that that is the minimum/maximum number that can show up on a map in the space of a year. I've killed something like 150 bonobos on my map, but they're still coming.

::Tame animals, on the other hand, clearly have hard population limits (otherwise they'd breed into the thousands and turn every fortress into a "tribbles" episode). As I posted above, it appears that once that population limit is reached, breeding stops permanently (I'll have to test it further at some point). As far as I can tell, however, that limit does not apply to wildlife. It probably doesn't apply to wildlife even after you've hit the limit on tame animals of the same species. (It's been a while, but I once had a fort with a bunch of domesticated musk oxen. I think wild ones still showed up long after the tame ones stopped breeding.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do you know if this was changed recently? Best I can recall, EVERY fortress I've started has eventually killed off all non-aggressive wildlife. I'm not sure, but bonobos may be somehow classified as 'invaders' (aren't they the ones that steal everything?) so perhaps there are no limits on them. It takes me ~3 years to kill off all the wildlife on my map, and after that nothing else shows up. I took the numbers in the raw to be a global maximum in existence... I can verify tame animals stop breeding after a max is hit, and they do NOT start breeding again after the number goes below this. However, I'm fairly certain there is a max limit present for tame animals, as I went through cows pretty regularly, culling the population to keep it manageable. My money is on a global max ever, not alive at any one point, but I could be wrong. (Also, I think wild and tame ones are calculated separately... does your tone indicate they eventually stopped as well?)--Gotthard 22:08, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::::Bonobos are "wild animals" in my unit list, and they aren't one of the thieving species. I'm not sure whether all wildlife can be killed off; we need more people to chime in about their experiences. My bonobo death count is about 200 now, and shows no sign of stopping. (I've been using nerve-injured soldiers, not hunters, to do the killing.) However, I also finally have a breeding stock of tame bonobos, and I'll let them breed up to the max to see if affects their migrating onto the map. My bet is that the species cap is just for breeding, not migration.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:13, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I'm not doubting your experience, but I've had 4-5 maps where I consistently run out of deer. The species cap there seems to function fine, I *never* had any deer offspring, just hunted them for a while until they stopped (year 3-4ish). I can't verify wolves, however. So bonobos aren't predatory at all? I was thinking maybe more 'aggressive' animals (even if they're not thieves) may reproduce ad infitum. Or perhaps I scared them all off with my deer genocide? I mean anytime a deer showed up, I had 3 guys run down and punch it to death. Are you nicer to your bonobos? And have you seen that with any other animals? I've run out of hoary marmonts, mountain goats, and deer (on separate maps). Sorry to be insistent, but this seems like one area we don't have a lot of info. --Gotthard 22:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::::::No, I understand -- I'd like to figure it out too. Actually, on my current map, something totally unexpected happened. I've been keeping all my strays (of any species) in cages, and I haven't had any cow births since the beginning of the game. I've also been buying every animal brought by traders, so was well above the limit. I decided to slaughter all my cows to see what would happen. I killed all of them, or nearly so, and suddenly all the pet cows are giving birth. (There are 4 pet cows and two pet bulls in the fortress.)

::::::As for the wild bonobos, they're still coming. And elephants. And mountain goats. And hoary marmots. None of them are predators. (I do get zombie mountain goats and hoary marmots as well.) But I've been posting soldiers to kill them for years now, and have killed many hundreds of animals. Some animals tend to escape, since the soldiers stay near their station point instead of tracking down every last animal, like hunters will. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

::::::I did have a single crocodile and some ogres show up in the first year, and never again. For any given fortress, there may just be some animals that are finite and some that are unlimited. We should post to the forums soliciting other players' experiences to see what kind of generalizations can be made.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::I had pet horses start to breed when I butchered most of the stray horses. So that part, at least, seems to be reproduceable.

:::::::I had three waves or so of macaques spawn, running them down with soldiers each time, and now they've stopped coming (they came about once a year for three years, and then I haven't seen them in the eight years since).

:::::::The map keeps spawning one- and two-humped camels. I trap and tame them, but nobody's interested in adopting them. It'll be interesting to see if eventually I run out. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 12:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::::::::Are they still in cages? Dwarves won't adopt them unless they're roaming (or maybe on a chain... I haven't tested that yet).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::::Huh, is that for all livestock? No wonder I have such issues getting those tamed vermin adopted... I stuck them all in a cage for convenience. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Breeding turtles ==

While it doesn't really fall under the category of the "leather industry" that the top of the page claims, is it possible to do animal husbandry with turtles? It would be nice to be able to have a ready supply of them. I lack unfrozen water on my current map, so I can't rely on spawning turtles, but I do have three tame turtles from the caravans. My suspicion is that vermin aren't treated as animals, so there's to be no turtle breeding, but I know they are special cases in other ways, so I figured it might be worth a try. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think it's possible to release tame vermin from containment. They're always either in a cage, or in a small animal trap. That would keep them from breeding even if they were otherwise normal animals.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Vermin may be released from their cage if they are adopted by a dwarf, AFAIK. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:50, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Oh, the "leather industry" is a hold-over from before I moved the original page to "Meat industry". I keep meaning to give this a spruce up ... --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:38, 20 November 2008 (EST)

: What if I were to build an enclosed pool inside my fortress and mark it as a [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit]]. Would I be able to dump caught turtles into it, or does the [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit/pond]] classification only account for [[animals]] and not [[vermin]]? I've never checked before. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:52, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:: *checks* Looks like you can assign tame vermin to a pit. I don't think you can breed turtles though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:Interesting....Since you're only trying to breed turtles, I guess you can just channel a few squares and mark it as a pit. It's faster since the dwarves do take a heck of a long time to fill pools. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]]

==A death by any other means==
I made a note that if an animal is killed by something other than a hunter or butcher it cannot be butchered, based on my experience of 2 dogs being killed by a werewolf and being unbutcherable. GreyMario changed it to "certain animals need to be alive when taken to the butchery". Dorten removed the note entirely. I'll admit my experience was several versions ago - can you butcher any dead unrotten creature now? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:49, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that there are cases where killed animals are rendered unbutcherable. In my case, I brought a boatload of cats for short-term butchering, only to find that I quickly dug into an underground river, and have a dozen snakemen, etc, come out and kill half the cats. Even though they were marked for butchering before they died (I hadn't yet built a butcher shop,) only those that escaped slithering death were ever butchered, the rest sat in my refuse stockpile rotting along with the river-raiders. Oh, yes.. I even went and tried unforbidding them just incase; They weren't. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:35, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::This only applies to tame animals. I have several experiences where caravan guards killed wild naked mole dogs and elks that came in the way. I butchered them all.

[[Immaculate Conception?]]
I'm not sure whether I have a case of immaculate conception on my hands or something else. I just started a new fortress for 40d11 and I have a single muskox (one of the random animals that came for free with my fort). However, it is now spring of the second year, and it just gave birth. So I'm thinking either A) The dwarven traders I got in the fall had a male muskox with them or B) I have a bad case of Muskox Jesus on my hands. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 05:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Toloran

2008-12-15T19:09:46Z

Toloran: /* You signed someone else's already-signed comment with your own name. */

Hey, what is this place? Palm Trees. Hula girls! Pineapples. Hula girls! Surfboards. Hula girls! Hula girls! Hula girls! Of course, it all adds up! I've somehow landed in Norway!

== You signed someone else's already-signed comment with your own name. ==

Yeah, you did. Might want to be careful of that, else someone might decide to pop you in the head with some !!Dwarven beer [10]!!. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:28, 14 December 2008 (EST)
: Oops. Crap. Thanks.

40d Talk:Giant eagle

2008-12-15T00:58:09Z

Toloran: /* Dangerous??? */

More dangerous than [[carp|Carp]]? Oooh...we need a [[King of the beasts]] page just to debate the most evil of creatures.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:11, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Are we sure that a giant eagle really gives 10 bones, and 10 meat? The thing must be the size of an elephant. That's more like a Roc, not an eagle.

:Well, that *is* basically what a Roc is. No one said how big 'giant' is. I wouldn't be surprised if giant eagles could eventually pick up and drop dwarves. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:30, 31 December 2007 (EST)

::Actually, there were real Giant Eagles before but they went extinct. They had a wingspan of 2.6m to 3m, according to Wikipedia. But then again, this would be a mythological Giant Eagle, so I guess it could be any size. Oh, and checking the coding on the thing, it's size is a little under 2/3 that of an Elephant, which for a bit of guidance, is on average about 3 meters tall.[[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I have a couple of those GEs hovering in the middle of the map, any chance i could catch one? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 12:09, 25 February 2008 (EST)
: I'd doubt it. You'd have to be pretty damn lucky to trap a flying creature in a cage on the ground. The only way you could do it would be to lure it into a corridor, as it means it won't be able to fly. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
::It's easily possible with a bunch of cage traps. I caught one recently (I believe it was swooping in to kill a mountain goat, though I can't be sure). I modified it to be trainable, and now I have a war giant eagle. I hardly have to fight goblin ambushes anymore, and as long as they don't have crossbows the thing never gets hurt. :D[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 18:50, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Dangerous??? ==

After this wiki page, I was really scared when at some point a zombie giant eagle occured and marched straight into my fortress. in the end, my untrained woodcutter slaughtered it and had to stay in bed for half a week due to minor injuries. The second zombie giant eagle was killed by a single skilled wrestler (very agile, so he was the first to arrive) without armour and without getting injured. Is the information on the page really correct? Or should it rather be "dangerous for non-military dwarves"? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] ([[User talk:Qwertyu|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Qwertyu|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

: more so since sending peasants as recruits into the fray and see them die is not a proof that a creature is so especially dangerous. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 03:22, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:Giant Eagles are so powerful because they use swift hit-and-run attacks, darting out of the sky to attack it's target, and return back to the sky, making it very hard to fight normally. Not only would a zombie Giant Eagle be much slower (and perhaps be on the ground too, I don't know), but having one stuck inside your fortress means that it can't fly at all. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::Wait a second though. He said "marched straight into my fortress" as in not flying... as in nothing more than a plain zombie... Go figure that a walking bird that's meant to fly isn't dangerous! Personally, I doubt a flying GE would ever enter a fortress. Normal (or otherwise flying, do skel-GEs fly?) Giant Eagles are very dangerous *because* they fly. They easily avoid any dwarves that would be a danger to it, while picking off any peasant that goes outdoors. I haven't heard much talk about them since the z-level ranged attacks were fixed, (didn't use to shoot between z-levels for a bit after z's were implemented,) so perhaps the fact that they fly isn't a big problem if you've got a supply of bolts and a decent marksdwarf. But I could be wrong on both accounts, who knows? Proof is always welcome of either way! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Well, parts of my fortress needed a roof, that's how it entered. But don't attack undead everything? So if you send your military dwarves, it should attack them instead of some poor peasants, correct? Besides, especially the Zombie GE is so slow that even my exhausted half-time fighters (They had just practiced their wrestling with a group of skeletal hoary marmots) could outcrouch it, so I cannot imagine that it would make such an incredible killer even if it spent more time flying. -- [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 10:30, 10 March 2008 (CET)

::::Oh, but you haven't seen a skeletal eagle--the time I saw it, it was horrific...I brought six dogs with me to a terrifying mountain, and I was busy digging out a fort next to the volcano nearby. Then, I saw "______ cancels store item in stockpile: Interrupted by Skeletal giant eagle."
::::My god, that scared the hell out of me, and rightfully so. It SLAUGHTERED my six dogs with about what looked like one hit each (about a fourth of a second each kill) and then seemed to ''guard the wagon'' which had my supplies and about 20 more tin bars (I'd hauled about a third of them). It then came back later on to harrass the Solen building the water pumping system--which, for that matter, froze up later on.
::::EDIT: Yes, skeletal GEs fly.
::::...Man, that fort was...odd. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 12:11, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::I had just started out in a calm area and looked on the unit list and saw a giant eagle, I couldn't stop my hunter from going after it and he was unfortunatley killed by it. Afterwards it was considered legend (I guess) and named Woodchoke. --[[User:DUMBELLS|DUMBELLS]] 15:09, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ah, I remember I had a similar situation. Only replaced "six dogs" with "six dwarves". Owch. And, in case you're wondering, the seventh dwarf didn't escape, he just got mauled by a Skeletal Mountain Goat. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:46, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::As others have said, the thing that makes giant eagles dangerous is their flight. At least you can generally keep your dwarves away from elephants or place traps to keep them away from your dwarves. It's probably almost impossible to stop a giant eagle with a trap, and you can't even keep track of its position because civilian dwarves don't seem to be scared by it till it drops to their Z-level - if it's flying around six levels above that road you're building, none of your dwarves will sound the alarm until it swoops down out of nowhere to eviscerate a peasant. It's probably not anywhere near as tough as an elephant in melee combat (a single war dog, though mortally wounded in the process, managed to knock one out long enough for me to notice and send a dwarf to finish it off), but the psychological torment more than makes up for it - it's silent and deadly. Topping it all off is that while marksdwarves make short work of it, marksdwarves are just about the only thing that can kill it on your terms. If you don't have any, you have to just have to wait around and hope it attacks someone strong enough to take it out. [[User:Gelmax|Gelmax]] 01:48, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:When I saw a Skeletal Giant Eagle appear, due to the article I was terrified. Needless to say, they are no where near as dangerous as they are made out to be. 2 semi-trained marksdwarves and a recruit marksdwarf were able to kill it with only one loss. I don't think the article is doing any favors to new players by encouraging them to abandon their fortress at the sight of one. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 15:31, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

::When I encountered one in Adventure mode as a professional Hammerer i was pretty scared but I killed it in one hit!! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 15:38, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

::BTW: Wouldn't there be an option to bring it down with just some recruits? As an idea: Two waves: One consisting of wrestling recruits (say 2-3), the other one consisting of your somewhat skilled miners, and an axe carrier (if you have one). It comes down to engage the first three dwarves, the second group should be able to tear it apart, especially due to the axe. Worked nicely with a giant bat (however, this was killed even by a lone axedwarf). [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:27, 31 August 2008 (EDT)--[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 19:58, 14 December 2008 (EST)

:I had a Giant Eagle (non-undead, thankfully) hanging out on the north end of the map on my current fortress (v0.28.181.40c). Fearing for my dorfs, I kept them inside for the better part of the next year after it arrived. The following summer, I forced the human caravan to arrive on the west end of the map, but their Guild Representative spawned literally twenty tiles away from the GE. The weird thing is that the GE ''fled'' from the ''unarmed, unskilled'' Guild Rep. It hasn't been seen since. [[User:Thrawn|Thrawn]] 13:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::Well, many of the dangerous living creatures do not attack automatically, but only sometimes. Fire imps also flee from your dwarves most of the time, but you should not count on it. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:27, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

DO NOT BE FOOLED. Skeletal Giant Eagles are flying death machines, it luckily left my dwarves alone for a few years, then one day decided to kill my hunter. My hunter managed to injure it, but was torn to shreds (10 dwarf chunks!). -OmegaX

:As far as the dwarf chunks, that is due to how the GE attacks where it bites for 1-6, latches on, and tears off a chunk, meaning the Eagle had to bite at least 10 times to kill your hunter. It seems most anyting with this Bite attack as the sole attack can do considerable damage.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:02, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

On my current fortress, things were starting off FAR too well: Bauxite, Magma, tons of iron, lumber, AND flux material all on the same map? Too good to be true. Then the giant skeletal eagle appeared. It managed to enter my fort by flying through my (currently under construction) aquaduct and fly up through the well and enter my fort. Luckly about a dozen dogs were on hand when it popped out and shredded it. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 19:58, 14 December 2008 (EST)

== Initially Hostile? ==

Right now I have a Giant Eagle in my base. Will it kill guys right now (should I call an all-below), or will it just mind its own business unless I provoke it somehow? --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 20:44, 5 November 2008 (EST)

: What do you mean, "in your base?" If it's just on the map, there's no need to worry. If the eagle is likely to move past a dwarf, that could be a problem. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:40, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: It was inside a walled compound, flying around and giving me a nightmare. However, it left without any killing being done, and was killed by a psychotic trader guard axedwarf who proceeded to spend the next of the season chasing a one-humped camel with upper spine injuries. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 14:57, 7 November 2008 (EST)

::: I had a Giant eagle for 5 years before he eventually ran into a cage trap, and he never killed or hurt any of my dwarves (in fact, he even never hurt anything). My dwarves, who strongly rely on woodcutting, were always outside, so if he was really agressive, he wouldn't have let them live peacefully for 5 years.. Now I've tamed it, and there's no problems with the other creatures. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 06:13, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Dropped into water? ==

What happens if a giant eagle drops a dwarf into water (and the dwarf can swim). Will the dwarf die, be unconcious and drown, or simply swim away? [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 13:09, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Having played on a map with seven elevation waterfalls and water two elevations deep, it seems that falling from great heights causes dwarves to fall straight through the water and hit solid rock. I never saw them drown, the death message was always 'collided with an obstacle'.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:29, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::Weird... I was thinking it would be the other way around, since I had a couple of goblin masters get launched into my channel by my bridge (and crushed my champion. Note to self: Pressure plate atom smashers are not a good idea if you have invaluable melee dwarves and/or can't remember which lever prevents lifts the bridge disconnecting your fort from the outside). They flew up a couple Z levels and landed in the water, stunned but unharmed. But I suppose more Z levels than two is a different story. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:00, 11 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Martial trance

2008-11-05T16:35:32Z

Toloran:

Shouldn't this redirect to [[Status icons]]?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:36, 11 January 2008 (EST)

When they are attacked by more than one enemy? I've had dwarves go into martial trances for no apparent reason in 38c. one was a recruit who id just signed up and was in the middle of my fortress, and the other was standing near a pool of magma, which had fire imps in, but they werent attacking. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:41, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:Maybe dwarves just need to be near multiple enemies and doesnt take z-level into account properly. That's my guess. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 19:52, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
::That was probably it. I had my captain of the guard hunting wolves for sport and he went in to martial trance when he approached a small pack of them. They all scattered at the sight of him and he left the trance before he even caught up to any of them =\ So I think the trigger isn't so much as "enemies" but "things I want to attack" since he didn't do this when I turned off "harras wild animals." --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 11:35, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Mullet-time ==

It's like bullet-time for dwarves. The chaos around them seems to slow down, as they wave away passing arrows and whip the plaited ends of their beards around to plunge their sword into a goblin frozen in mid-charge. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:52, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Pet

2008-11-02T20:09:47Z

Toloran: /* Named and owned pet in cage */

== Population control ==

Is there a reliable way to remove pets? On some of my fortresses, I wind up with 100+ pets and actually see a framerate hit because of it. I don't really care if their owners get an unhappy thought, they'll straighten out when they drink their masterwork beer. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:06, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:Non pet-passable door + death room might work. (A drawbridge would probably work nicely). Get the dorf to walk into the room (build something in there or draft them and station them there), wait for the pet, set door as tightly closed, get the dorf to leave the room, drop bridge. +Kitten tallow biscuits+. --[[User:Wabbiteh|Wabbiteh]] 06:21, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
::Death rooms are mandatory in fortresses requiring high fps. Best if you station them near main corridor with few backup corridors. It may be possible to trap pets by just door settings alone. Animals don't know that tightly-closed doors count as forbidden for them and will not include them in pathfinding calculations (they see free corridor, not closed door). They will stand before tightly closed door and won't find a better way. Forbidden doors count as obstacle and will be bypassed if possible. This may be used to create automatic death rooms (if they are controlled by pressure plates you may need absolutely no dwarven intervention). Also, you can't butcher cats killed by anything other than butcher, so no +Kitten Tallow Biscuit+ for you. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 17:35, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
Worked and worked well, thank you sir. I prefer the spike trap, personally. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:55, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Cost of ownership ==
On the z-animals menu, at least once the economy starts, non-cat pets have a price listed next to them. Is it possible to buy pets off owners? If so, how? (If not, why the monetary value?) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:22, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
:If you mark stray pet as available it'll have price too. It's the price at which a dwarf can buy a pet, whether it's owned by other dwarf or is stray. That's what I think.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:22, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Pets in combat ==
Will a pet attack enemies attacking its owner? How does pets work for protection? Can a tame mule or whatever actually be any good in a fight?--[[User:Dwaref|Dwaref]] 22:33, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

:Firstly, I've never seen a horse attack anything. Some pets such as Dogs can indeed attack enemies, but they aren't that good at stopping Goblins or anything stronger. They're good at getting rid of pests though. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:02, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

:: I've seen a horse attack and stun goblins, but only in self defence (counterattacks, I assume). I believe that the horse was a pet, probably of a woodcutter, as it was wandering around outside my fort at the time. Led those gobbos a merry chase, it did. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:13, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

::: I'm hoping they do! I bought a tame black bear off some shady elves, and I'm hoping it'll get adopted soon; prefeably by a military dwarf, or at least one that spends a decent amount of time outside of Rissenpaddle's halls. Can't wait to see the look on those goblin's faces! --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:14, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Named and owned pet in cage ==
If you assign a kitten to a cage, it is possible for it to adopt a dwarf before it is put in the cage; I found a pet in my cat cage. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 03:08, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
: Yep, it is quite possible. I've had it happen on a few occasions (much to my annoyance). --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 15:09, 2 November 2008 (EST)

==Pet Training==
Can you train pet dogs? In my fortress I had loads of dogs, but it is my first fort so I made all of them available and now they're pets. --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 07:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:You can only train strays. Though assigned war/hunting dogs seem to act like pets in terms of making their owner happy and such. Don't worry about them being assigned, there will be puppies soon enough. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:32, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
==Non-preferred pets==
Do dwarfs take pets that aren't the creature they like for their [prefstring]? I have black bears, cougars, wolves, deer, and marmots, but non of my dwarves are claiming them as pets. They only seem to like cows, horses, and cats. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:32, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Loom

2008-11-01T23:02:07Z

Toloran: /* Chasms */

== what am i doing wrong? ==

My loom is not being build - it says "needs weaving". Doesnt that normally mean its waiting for a weaver to finish the job? I have now weaving activated on several dwarfes, still nothing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:33, 11 February 2008 (EST)
: built a second loom, was done in no time. removed the other. Can only imagine access was blocked somehow. Or i tried to build one from stone which is a bit smug even for a dwarf ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:54, 11 February 2008 (EST)

== Chasms ==

I have a chasm which has quite a bit of cave spider web in it. It also has slugmen etc all over the joint.

How hardy are my silk gatherers going to be, and how clever are they at getting access to spider web straight down cliff faces?

Is it justifiable to dig an up/down stair more than a couple of levels to get to a cluster of web?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:44, 17 February 2008 (EST)
: Depends. If it is normal silk, it isn't worth the effort unless you REALLY need the silk to make stuff out of (or just as an odds and end for when your dwarves get in a strange mood and want random stuff). However, if it is GIANT cave spider silk GO GET IT. That stuff is very valuable. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 19:02, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Spear

2008-10-29T02:47:09Z

Toloran: /* Other materials? */

+2 chance out of what? Shouldn't this information be given in a neutral format, such as a percentage? Either that or there should be a link to a page explaining the combat mechanics. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:16, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:The combat mechanic itself is too purely understood for now to say anything better then to compare which weapon has bigger number and so is better at certain things. Of course the +2 number can be substituted with a verbal description that would still mean exactly the same. :( --[[User:Another|Another]] 08:19, 13 December 2007 (EST)

== Chance of getting stuck ==

The [[weapon]] page says that weapons like spears are the '''most''' likely to get stuck in the target, whereas this page says they're less likely than swords. Which is it? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:54, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Other materials? ==
Um, my craftsdwarf just got possessed, and he made a bone spear. "this is a rhesus macaque bone spear, highest quality craftsdwarfship, adorned with hanging rings of birch. does anyone how much damage it will do? is it even possible? [[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:26, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
: Even though you can't make weapons out of bone normally (except bolts), it uses the same mod as wood (which is 50%). The modifier for being an artifact weapon is somewhere in the neighborhood of x3 (I think, I don't have and can't find any good data on it). So the artifact spear should be doing around 150 damage.

40d Talk:Food

2008-10-25T02:35:08Z

Toloran: /* Rots ''where'', exactly? */

== Rate of consumption ==

Does anyone know the rate at which dwarf eats food? --[[User:Okita|Okita]] 01:18, 6 June 2008 (EST)

:Someone calculated it way back in the 2D days. IIRC, they came up with 6 food and 18 drink per dwarf per year, but I don't think that was very accurate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Starvation ==

Once my [[butcher]] starts ''hunting for small creatures'' - how do I get him to actually slaughter an animal so everyone can eat?
Or do I need to make someone else a butcher so my butcher can have a snack?

Why does this shite always happen when the merchant turns up?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::This is beacause your dwarves are very hungry and start looking for vermin to eat. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 02:48, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

== Hunger bug ==

First of all, i'm a new user, so if this needs putting somewhere else or whatever, just send me an e-mail or something. Anyway, I have a bug that keeps crippling my fortress. Sometime halfway through the year, my dwarfs (dwarves? i dunno :S) stop eating. completely. they then get hungry, tantrums kick off, and chaos ensues. any tips?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 05:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Do you have food? If so, what KIND of food? They can't eat raw dead things, and they can't even eat butchered dead things. They also can't eat most kinds of uncooked fish. Also, did you make a food stockpile? Food left outside of a food stockpile will mass rot before long. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:20, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Yep, I have plenty of edible food ( non-rotten, stockpiled, etc). The food is definetly edible, but the dwarfs, after a while, jsut lose the will to eat! they still keep drinking, though ;)--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Meals ==

Do Roasts fill up dwarves more than biscuits? It seems logical that they would but I'm not sure. Also, do roasts take longer to eat? --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 00:20, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, no. And it's not logical. Suppose you take 2 units of meat to make two bisquits, or four units of meat to make four roasts. Why would roasts be any larger?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Oh yeah... Well, then what's the advantage of making biscuits over roasts? Am I missing something?--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 04:39, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::: None. With roast you get bigger meal stacks that are more likely to not fit in barrels - good cos you save barrels. You have a higher chance per meal that you please the preference of a dwarf. You have half the number of items - less clutter. Some people claim that the cook collects more experience from easy meals since he cooks more, but i cant confirm. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:41, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::::A cook gets 30xp per meal, not depending on the size. That's been on the wiki since late 2006.
::::It might've not been written into the new wiki yet, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:: let's see - if you combine [info on DF] with [2006] what do you get? ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ok, thanks for clearing it up.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 16:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meal Value ==

I was just wondering if anyone has done any research into how the value of prepared meals is calculated. I was somewhat curious because in my current fort I happened to notice that two stacks of masterpiece roasts were created of value 544☼ and 164☼, neither of which values is divisible by 12 (the masterpiece value modifier). In the case of both roasts, all the ingredients were plump helmet spawns. Also, how is overall meal quality decided? I had previously assumed that it was the highest quality out of the individual ingredient qualities, but in the case of the 544☼ meal all four ingredients were superiorly minced. I know that having a high quality ingredient in amongst low quality ingredients does bump up the overall quality, as with the 164☼ meal, which was 1 masterfully minced and 3 finely minced ingredients. Also, another oddity that I've just noticed: I got another "masterpiece" message, and took a look. "☼Plump helmet spawn roast [4]☼ This is a stack of 4 superiorly prepared Plump helmet spawn roast." I didn't see what the other two said, so perhaps the value is based off the description overall quality rather than the item name symbol quality?--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 00:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:Ok, so I managed to answer my own question by looking up the [[Item value]] page. Never mind then.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Question about the Z screen ==

When I press "z", and go into the menu, it tells me my food stores are well over 500. However, I am very low on meat, fish, and plants. The only category which has a high number is "other". What type of food is considered "other"? Is it cooked/prepared food? Any help would be great.
: Cooked food is in the "other" category.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:51, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
: Fat and tallow fall under the "other". :) I had a hunter who was also my bookkeeper and he steadily brought in a Muskox or two each day (legendary skills and all. If he ran out of bolts, he could club an ox several squares down the map with his crossbow). I didn't realize just how much fat I'd piled up a few years later... and there's not much you can do other than render it (I'm not all that big on soap) or cook it. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:22, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
::You have to render fat to cook it, you know... <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:16, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Ah, right. So fat is useless unless you render it. :) And, lucky me, I've got about 800 units of it still in 1-5 piece allocations. *sigh* I should have realized something was up when I saw that I had 1500 Other items, but I just figured my cook had been busy. But, to answer the original question, go to the stockpile option and look at what it lists under food. Eliminate the meat, fish, seeds, booze, and plants. The remaining items are Other and can be found in their respective lists under Stock (including bone meal... if it existed). Oh, flour and sugar probably count towards there too. Not certain if dye gets counted as well. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:39, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

== Rots ''where'', exactly? ==

I've had prepared meals rot inside a kitchen indoors but have never seen prepared foot rot '''outdoors''' as long as it's been stockpiled - even outside of a barrel. Maybe some research should be done as to where it rots...? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:22, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:From what I've seen, food rots anywhere that isn't a stockpile (regardless of being indoors or out). However, If you store your food outdoors then vermin tend to get at your food piles easier. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 22:35, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

User:Toloran

2008-08-19T04:25:21Z

Toloran: New page: 14th of Limestone, Year 204, Fortress ScouredMirrors: We have been besieged by the vile humans whom we've had dealings with in the past. They bring a vast number of troops and horses. We...

14th of Limestone, Year 204, Fortress ScouredMirrors:

We have been besieged by the vile humans whom we've had dealings with in the past. They bring a vast number of troops and horses.

We shall eat well tonight.

40d Talk:Pressure plate

2008-08-19T03:18:10Z

Toloran: /* Resetting "One Use" Pressure Plates */

Approximately how long after a pressure plate is stepped on will it's effects happen?
For instance, I have a pressure plate. Two squares away is a pit trap linked to the plate. Will that work at all?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 22:50, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, consider the fact that different creatures move at different speeds, the trap may be too fast or too slow for them, or it might be just right, you can't be sure until you test it. Have some captured goblin run through it and have a cage trap a little further in case they make it through alive. If i were you, I would make at least 2 tile long pit trap. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 23:28, 25 February 2008 (EST)

::The higher quality your mechanisms are, the faster they work, or so the rumor goes. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 13:49, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

:::That rumor holds no merit with bridges. Yes, I counted the frames. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:47, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

== More detailed instructions? ==

Might be worth adding to the article instructions on common operations with pressure plates. For example, how do you use a plate to close a floodgate? Does the plate open, close or toggle the gate? Should it be set to activate when the water/magma level is low or high? etc. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:37, 27 November 2007 (EST)
:Heh. Just figured it out. Is it correct? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:00, 27 November 2007 (EST)

== Do pressure plates work with civilians? ==

I have the setup mentioned on the page, to make a Pressure plate semi-permanent, however, even though the plate is set to minumum dwarven weight, maximum "any" weight, and so civilians trigger the plate.. it won't make the hatch I connected it to set to "open". I've remade it twice and Dan (the dwarf on the plate) is getting thirsty from standing on and off the plate all day.
So is this a big of some sorts where regular civilians cant trigger pressure plates? If it is, it should be tested by someone else and mentioned on the page. --[[User:Emeralddragon2|Emeralddragon2]] 19:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
:Aye, there is currently a bug where citizens can't trigger pressure plates, however pets can set off citizen plates. Hopefully this'll be fixed next game update. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 20:42, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Resetting "One Use" Pressure Plates ==

Can you reset "one use" pressure plates or are they literally one use? The article seems to imply that one use plates can never be used again once used, which doesn't make sense to me. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 13:41, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm not 100% sure but I believe what it means is that to reset it you have to dismantle it and then rebuild it from scratch.--[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 23:18, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Pressure plate

2008-08-19T03:17:57Z

Toloran: /* Resetting "One Use" Pressure Plates */

40d Talk:Dungeon master

2008-08-12T23:12:02Z

Toloran:

Anyone know what triggers the dungeon master now? I have absolutely NO coins whatsoever and he just showed up at the start of my 4th spring. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 11:54, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a point to the image? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:38, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I think it's there to show what skills the Dungeon Master starts with. Putting the same in plain text would work better, methinks. --[[User:Zirik|Zirik]] 03:08, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::My oppinion also. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:45, 10 November 2007 (EST)

He showed up here in summer 1055 with the 'normal'/standard skill level in those four skills mentioned in the article (Animal Trainer, Animal Caretaker, Furnace Operator, Metal Crafter). I've got no coins either. Created wealth was around 70k, around 60-70 dwarves. Maybe it's the number of pets? I have 123.--[[User:SL|SL]] 00:43, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:Probably not. I got him in 1054 with no more than 25 animals, and had passed 70k wealth long ago so that wasn't it either. Number of dwarves? 1054 would have been the first year after I hit 50 dwarves, which might be the case with yours as well. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 01:36, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:When I got him, I had 57 dwarves. The requirement is probably 50 dwarves, we all have that number in common. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:19, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I dont think the requirement is 50 dwarves, i have the dungeon master arrive when i was nearing the 80 Mark, and had a wealth of around 200k. --[[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 20:48, 15 November 2007 (EST)
::Were you nearing the 80 mark BEFORE or AFTER the migration when he showed up? A requirement of 50 dwarves to trigger him would mean you would probably have 70+ dwarves by the time he actually arrives, since he generally shows up at the same time as 20 other immigrants.
:::It was before the migration ofcourse, ill try it again when i have time [[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 14:44, 17 November 2007 (EST)
:My numbers were 68 dwarves (I went from 36 to 60+ in the last wave), roughly 2.7M in wealth (and I'd been over 1M for years) in year 1056 with a moderate number of pets and no coins. I'd also dug to the deepest level the first year, in case folks were considering that as a criterion. I have fought numerous slugmen, goblins and kobolds, but nothing exotic (I had to reload after the dragon arrived and burned everything down). Bear in mind that if there's a pop requirement, then it's important how many you have before the DM arrives, but it's equally important how many you had before the ''previous'' wave. Those numbers form the bounds. So if you had 80 before the DM arrived, but 31 of them arrived or were born in that last wave, then this will have been the first time the caravan saw you with 50+ pop. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:56, 20 November 2007 (EST)

I think his arrival might be related to your stored animals. He seems to arrive for me whenever I get my first goblin in a cage trap. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:04, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:I just had this happen again. My pop. went from 57 to 80 or so and it was the first wave after I had captured a dragon and some goblins. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:22, 24 December 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that he does NOT arrive simply at 50 dwarves. Just got an immigration wave that raised my pop from 52 to 60, and no DM.
--[[User:Tyrving|Tyrving]] 02:56, 22 December 2007 (EST)

How about using skill names that are shown in the game? For example armor crafting -> Armorsmith , weapon smithing -> Weaponsmith and so on. Its a bit confusing now with blacksmithing and all.

Have you considered that the DM has /a percentage based chance of arriving once you fortress reaches the population of 50?/ --[[User:Hamenopi|Hamenopi]] 07:13, 17 January 2008 (EST)

I had about 53 dwarves then an immigration wave took me up to 62 but it wasnt until the next wave which gave me 81 that I got him also in requirements says you need to discover hidden site feature, but i havent discovered anything yet. Imported wealth is 128245 Exported is 682 Created wealth is 429483 and on the off chance his arrival is related to animal numbers i have 5 trained and 21 others [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:26, 19 January 2008 (EST) - I hadnt caught anything in a trap but i had nicked a cougar from the elves. Also I'd smithed a massive amount of gold and copper as well as some silver reckon it might be related to that? [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:49, 19 January 2008 (EST)

I snagged the DM right as my population hit 80. I have >700K wealth (got lucky with artifacts), and hardly any jobs (as Economy requires), so I would imagine it's either a population thing, or a mix of things including population.

Here's a bit of fun to smash pretty much all the speculation so far... I've had over or around 100 dwarves for the past year or two (at 142, now), I've captured goblins, I've captured and trained vermin, I've trained war dogs, I have no coins (though we seem to know that isn't a requirement), and I have
over a million in fortress wealth. Also, nearly half a million in imported wealth. I'm fairly certain none of the previously discussed conditions are the requirement. I'm wondering if it really is 'dungeon feature' related. The only thing I haven't had is greater beasts (unless a single Titan counts).—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

:A titan certainly would count, but that's not the 'map feature' that's required. Do you have magma, chasm, cave water, pits and/or a cave? Those might be what's the trigger, if you don't have any of those, then perhaps one (or more than one) is the trigger? I've gotten a DM without any invasions or sieges and an equally impressive amount of wealth in and out (turned off invasions cause I was tired of getting attacked while I was moving from my initial dig-in to an ideal spot). Mine came before 50 (a kid being born took me to 51,) and he came with the last migration before the birth. My site has magma, a brook, and pits. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:42, 27 January 2008 (EST)

::I have none of those, that I've found, so it might be one of those. I'm wishing I'd known about how to identify magma on the embark screen prior to doing this, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pits or magma, or maybe just any feature that has monsters. [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 05:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:::Don't feel too bad, as you could consider it cheating to know what you're going to get... Us 'cheaters' will quickly call it time-saving or whatnot instead ;) Check out Regional Prospector if you haven't, and don't mind crossing that grey line. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Hm, the DM just arrived after 68 Dwarves, 380k Wealth and no map feature whatsoever. [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 17:40, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:So you're in an area that you've revealed, and has nothing previously mentioned? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:19, 29 January 2008 (EST)

DM just arrived at 66 dwarfs, can't think of any map feature i have/discovered (no magma, chasm, cave, cave water, pit - however, i do have an ordinary river). I traded with the elves for a tiger, elk, camel and crocodile just before, but i already had other animals like leopard and saltwater crocodile. I have lots of animals (79), lots of war dogs (65). wealth 1818000. export 40700. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:20, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

hmm... my dungeon master is wearing a hood, cloak, mittens and nothing else xD [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 16:49, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

In my experience, DM arrives around the fifty to sixty dwarf mark, usually in the second year. I rarely have wealth over about 100k by this time. However, I generally have a lot of cages and traps about. Maybe that's what it is?--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:11, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Mine arrived in mid spring of my third year when I had about 78 dwarves (that wave of immigration bumped it up to 95), I had a wealth over 920k, and I had a visible magma vent since I arrived. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 19:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== Cloak obsession ==

Should there be something about the DM's taste in clothes? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:07, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:My current DM is sporting no less then 8 cloaks in various states of disrepair. There might be something to this. Anyone else confirm? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:12, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

:Correction: 10 cloaks, and on his way to get another. Also, disturbingly the only other clothes he has are mittens, shoes, and a hood. What the hell. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:14, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

:My DM arrived with a cloak, a hood, and two mittens. He immediately stole a used sock from someone's cabinet. Pretty bold for someone that spends all their time smelting steel. Nope, check that, he has two cloaks, and still no real clothes. Are all DM's male? I can't think of a single DM in all my forts that was female. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 09:53, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
::My DM is female, has 2 cloaks, a hood, a pair of mittens, 3 socks, and one shoe. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:27, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:::try making some underwear? perhaps he's trying to stay warm... in fashion.

40d Talk:Legendary artifact

2008-08-11T00:07:08Z

Toloran: /* Weird Materials (and armour?) */

==What can become an artifact?==
What are some of the things that dwarfs can make into artifacts? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:59, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Any item that your dwarves can craft and has a quality modifier can be made into artifacts. This includes armor, clothing, weapons, all kinds of crafts, furniture, cut gems and whatnot. Notable exceptions include coins(dunnae have quality modifiers), buildings(aint items) and babies(those rascals!). Bars, blocks, raw glass and other such base materials have no quality modifier and cannot be artifacts. I've never seen or heard about legendary meals, drinks and cloth/thread, so I think they can't be artifacts either. Though dwarves will say that they've eaten a legendary meal, when they've consumed a masterpiece meal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:02, 1 December 2007 (EST)
::Ive heard of someone creating a artifact meal and almost having it rot away before getting it into the food stockpile [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:00, 1 December 2007 (EST)
==Destruction==
On #bay12games, there was some question about artifacts being destroyed by magma. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also ways to destroy artifacts which aren't listed: Trading, dumping in magma vent (the floorless bottom seems to count as chasm), and dropping a bridge on it. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:I can't imagine anything not made of a [[magma-proof]] base material *not* being destroyed by any significant immersion in magma. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:29, 20 January 2008 (EST)
::And yet because it's an artifact, it may have a special flag that prevents specifically that. Can anyone confirm non-magma-proof artifact destruction in magma? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::Nevermind. I did. Artifact mechanism melted in magma. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

== Furniture ==

All right, so what can I do with a legendary [[lace agate]] [[hatch cover]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 22 January 2008 (EST)
:<s>Same thing as 90% of Artis. Sell it or</s> Build it in a Noble's room. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:04, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Artifacts are not tradeable. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:19, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Really... that's weird then since I would swear that I sold a particularly valuable bracelet after killing off it's creator that was otherwise useless... Being that it was a good amount of time ago (possibly even pre-3D) that I actually *tried* to sell an arti, it's quite likely that time has muddled an attempt to sell into a successful sale. I suppose this somewhat nullifies my previous comment, since it's far less than 90% of artis which are buildable. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

We just endured a rather nasty goblin ambush (I'd built a nice castle but hadn't yet built a real military to go with it, so we huddled inside with the drawbridge up for a whole season while I had my dwarves equip and train a small army to "break out" with) and one of my peasants gave me the nicest present after we cleaned up; a legendary goblin bone door made out of the bones of our fallen enemies. I very much want to use this as our castle's main entrance door now. Does anyone know if an artifact's indestructibility applies to trolls and similar door-wreckers? Oh, I've got magma, so I'll make a copy of the save game and test whether magma can burn through such a thing too. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 15:30, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:It's a constructed nonterrain feature, thus it's going to be knocked down by anything that deconstructs constructions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

::Hmph. I'll put it a couple of layers deep inside my fortifications, then. Guests will pass through it but invaders will have to fight pretty hard to get there. I'll just have to be satisfied with my giant electrum drawbridge as a fancy front door. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 18:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact menu ==

I seem to recall stumbling across a list of the various legendary artifacts I had created. Can anyone tell me how to get to it again?
:If you're talking about current artifacts in a given fortress, you get a new menu option once you've produced atleast one in that fortress. (lowercase {{k|L}}) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

much better
--[[User:NateAustin|NateAustin]] 17:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Trade ==

Is it possible to trade legendary artifacts? I just got a legendary statue and it currently sitting my furniture storage. I 've tried to get my dwarves to bring it to the depot, but it doesnt show up on the trade list. Is it possible? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
:No, Artifacts are not tradeable. They will not even take them to the depot if they sit in a bin marked for trade. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Value ==
The value can be found under the artifact menur "l"
what is the maximum calue you have found on an artifact, mine is platnium high boot for 146400? --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]
:There is a thread on the forums somewhere with this specific purpose. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Finished Goods"-type Artifacts...? ==

I understand the point of furniture artifacts- they can be built and are great for nobles- but what the heck are you supposed to do with artifact rings/amulets/crowns/scepters/et cetera? I'm sitting on over 300,000 value worth of "Finished Goods" artifacts. I guess my dwarves don't like building furniture... --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]

:You could abandon the fortress and come back in adventure mode. Artifact rings? Too good! --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 11:01, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:There might be more point to those types if/when artifacts start getting special magical effects. That's probably a long ways off though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:16, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:But even in Adventure Mode, artifacts (besides weapons/armor) don't have much of a point, right? To be honest, I've never gone through Adventure Mode- ''it lags my laptop''. Sad, I know. But like BahamutZERO said, at least they'll gain some point ''eventually''... And hopefully soon. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:46, 15 May 2008 (CST)

::Well you can trade 'em to merchants in Adventure mode, I'd imagine? Maybe not, I've never tried, and I doubt the shops sell anything you'd care about (ie masterpiece steel or adamantine weapons and armor). Still, I think it's fun to walk around wearing an artifact ring or amulet! At least until an archer kills you. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:45, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell, artifact crafts/goblets/etc are used entirely for boosting your fortress created wealth stat. There is rarely a time when a sudden 200k added to that is trivial.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Artifact craft items work weird in Adventure mode: you can sell them to a shopkeeper for all their goods and cash, and just pick it back up and walk away without guards jumping you for thievery; you can even re-sell it to the same guy if he has any money left. This is a pretty blatant exploit, though of limited use (coins is heavy!). You cannot, however, fast travel with an artifact you've already sold. But what does a wandering professional spearelf do with a turtle bone crown, anyway? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== selling ==

is there a way to hack DF and be able to sell artifacts? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:58, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact millstones and gems ==
My dwarves have made three artifacts so far; I know that my emerald flask is just for style, but what of the "Perfect Aquamarine" and the Millstone? Will some noble love having a mill placed in his bedroom, grinding away at all hours of the night when he's trying to sleep, or is it just going to annoy him? As for the aquamarine, can it be crafted into furniture? Will this raise the item's value exponentially? Will it still serve to elevate a room to royal status for satisfying noble needs? If no one has the answers to these questions, I'll do the research myself and post findings.
--[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:33, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact quality modifier? ==

I know that the quality modifier for regular equipped items is 1.0... for masterful it's 2.0... But what is the modifier for artifact level items? I can't find it anywhere. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Too precious to put down ==

Am I the only one whose dwarves create legendary... [[floodgate]]s, put them down in the workshop and immediately pick them up again... then continue on with their merry lives just significantly weighed down?

I have never been able to use an artifact yet. My dwarves just never let them go!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:04, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:That's never happened to me, fortunately. I've seen three legendary doors, a legendary grate, a legendary bed, and a legendary batman cabinet, and was able to place them all normally. In fact, I've never had a military dwarf who was skillful enough to be worthy of picking up a legendary weapon or piece of armor. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:37, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Weird Materials (and armour?) ==

"Artifact weapons won't be used by recruits and normal warriors, only by elites and champions." Does this include armour? Also, should we add somewhere that weird materials are possible? Platinum plate armour (which is AWESOME) and the like that aren't normally possible? (I know I've seen it said ''somewhere'', but it's not here) [[User:Droqen|Droqen]] 10:58, 27 July 2008 (EST)

: My Charbone Battle Axe says it should be written down SOMEWHERE :P ...as does my Kunzite Cabinet and Blue Garnet Statue. I have some crazy dwarves. Oh, and that thing about any room with an artifact in it being royal....bunk. I have an artifact Bismuth Chain in a throne room, place didn't get bumped up to royal status until I also threw in the artifact Oaken Hatch Cover. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 11:51, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:: I think that, more specifically, it is that ''most'' artifacts will bump up a room to royal but all. Example: I have a Purple Spinel Door (worth 48000) that bumped up three rooms at once to royal quality. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:07, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== availability ==
Is there a way to hack the game so you can make artifact weapons, even if the dwarf isn't in a fey mood? Or better, for them out of nothing? -Eddren, Fortress extraordinar

== Artifact Quine! ==

My Tanner claimed a leatherworking shop and produced a self-referential artifact: Lathonnunùr, "The Mythical Crevices", a donkey leather mask.
:This is a donkey leather mask. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. This object menaces with spikes of dog leather and Alunite. '''On the item is an image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in donkey leather.''' On the item is an image of Portalshades the alligator and dwarves in muskox leather. Portalshades in surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the rise of the alligator Portalshades as an enemy of The Problematic Sack in 29.
Presumably the image is recursive? Anyway, this artifact was apparently ''so cool'' that it created a disturbance in the Force which the dwarves back home managed to pick up, because the very next caravan to arrive offered an empty lead cage decorated with a (presumably also recursive) picture of The Mythical Crevices:
:This is a well-crafted Lead cage. It is decorated with exceptionally worked giant eagle leather and encircled with bands of exceptionally worked Ruby. On the item is a finely-designed image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in Cassiterite.
(Note that I'm running with <tt><nowiki>[SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:YES]</nowiki></tt>, and my fortress started in the year 88. I didn't feel like waiting for the whole thousand-year history to generate — if you hit Escape during worldgen, you can start playing with the universe "so far". Useful thing to know.)
--[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 23:40, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Wound

2008-08-10T06:32:40Z

Toloran: /* broken leg */

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Gem

2008-08-10T01:16:10Z

Toloran: /* moonstone */

So... What's the difference between large gems and cut gems? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 09:42, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:Large gems are a "finished produce." Cut gems are used to decorate stuff [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::So how do I make large gems for a mandate? All the ones I have cut just end up ordinary sized (no label). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 04:45, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Ok there is a small percentage chance that a gem will be cut into a large gem. Had to cut some 20+ gems to fill my mandate. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:12, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

most of the gems have specific environments, but it would be a huge pain to organize it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)

Toady One said under such metals as [[Bismuth bronze]] that he was trying to avoid using names specific to real-world places. I see several gems where he wasn't able to avoid it. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 23:10, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Glass bar ==
:''However, this appears to requires a Glass Bar, which is not possible to create at the current time.''
I'll have to double check this when I get back to the machine with dwarf fortress on it - but I seem to recall being able to make 'raw glass' which made a glass block.
I would also suggest changing the redirect for glass to gem - there is a significant amount of material that is unique to glass that is not appropriate for gems in general. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 03:22, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Availability ==
Alright, during my hours of game play, I've found out that depth(in z-levels) and the maximum rarity/value of available gems within the current layer are connected. The deeper you dig, the more valuable gems you'll find. However... With modding I've discovered that it's impossible to find very valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems. Since those layers never reach the necessary depth. It also means that more valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems are a lot more rarer than their igneous intrusive counter parts. Could anyone conform this? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 13:29, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:Whoops! I messed up the layers! Fixed it. Oh, and the rarity of a gem seems to be dependent on it's value. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:58, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Have you tried maps with steep cliffs? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:37, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::I haven't run tests on steeper than 4 Z-level cliffs, but from what I gather, the maximum rarity of gems available at the any given depth is calculated based on the relative depth not absolute depth. Meaning that, wherever you are, you need to dig the same amount of Z-levels to reach any specific rarity of gems. It's the same as stone layers. If there's a cliff within a biome, then the underlaying layers will begin at a higher Z-level below the cliff, depending on high the cliff is. I hope, that I'm not too confusing here... [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)
:::I suspect it may work by the listed depth. The number that shows up when you loo{{k|k}} at a tile, which refers how many levels you would need to count directly upward to reach the surface. On a severe cliff map you can easily have a "depth" of 15+ among the sedimentary layers. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:36, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Rock crystal ==

Can anyone confirm that this gem can be found in this version? In what stone layers/at what depth did you find one? It's material value should better be like that of a diamond because raw crystal glass is needed for moods from time to time.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)

According to forum, people have round it [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 12:24, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Redirects ==

There should be a redirect for each gem type to the subsection containing that gem. For example, I just created [[Heliodor]] as <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Gem#Semi-Precious]]</nowiki>. IMO, any game item should go straight from the search box to the most relevant article: that is what redirects do.
So <s>if</s> when a whole slew of redirects show up linking here... yeah, ididit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 11 February 2008 (EST)

== What the various gems look like in real life ==

I got bored one afternoon and put together a website with pictures of most of the various gems listed in the game. It is located at [http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist]
--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 16:04, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:<nowiki>http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist/gems.html</nowiki>
:"Sorry, the page you requested was not found." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:00, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Wow, I thought after ten years of building websites that I would automatically double check my links. It's fixed now. --[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 01:05, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

==Organization==
Is there any reason the page is organized as it is? Wouldn't it make more sense to sort gems alphabetically within rarity categories? Or at least group similar gems (ie, Opals, etc...) within rarity categories? Because the current layout is not useful for locating particular gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:02, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

You're right. You should go and organize it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:11, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== quality ==

can gem cuts get quality modifiers?

== moonstone ==

isn't a gem unless some new version was released
:Yep, it is a gem. I can post a screencap if needed. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 21:16, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Toloran

2008-07-26T00:54:00Z

Toloran: New page: Hey, what is this place? Palm Trees. Hula girls! Pineapples. Hula girls! Surfboards. Hula girls! Hula girls! Hula girls! Of course, it all adds up! I've somehow landed in Norway!

Hey, what is this place? Palm Trees. Hula girls! Pineapples. Hula girls! Surfboards. Hula girls! Hula girls! Hula girls! Of course, it all adds up! I've somehow landed in Norway!

40d Talk:Room

2008-07-26T00:52:18Z

Toloran: /* Coffin, Red highlight and (S) */

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Hydra cage ==

Would sticking a hydra cage in a room increase it's value?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:16, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)