Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2011-07-19T11:04:31Z

Tir: /* Traders won't accept 1:1 trade? */

==Trader's won't show goods==
Traders from my home civ show up, and they have loads upon loads of goods, but the trade window says they have nothing. I really need the goods they have. Help?--[[User:HugoLuman|HugoLuman]] 00:38, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

==Colors of Containers==
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Note that AD was talking about the color displayed in the trading screen, not the color of the item. Any container will display according to the origin of the container, regardless of the contents. So your barrel was foreign (listed in white), despite the fact that the cheese was local. When you (v)iew the item, the contents are listed, colored according to their origin (regardless of the container's origin). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

==No Dwarves==
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

* always arrives regardless of embark location, as long as the dwarven civilization is not extinct.Verify
-- This doesn't make sense either. If dwarfs are dead, who's embarking?
::I've never seen no-trade from the dwarves. Also, I second the comment about embarking. Isn't the fail condition for a world if the dwarfs don't survive?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
:::It's entirely possible to generate a world where all dwarf civilizations are no more. In this case, you still get two waves of immigrants but no caravans will come. For some this is a very desirable play scenario. The end of all dwarf civilizations does not necessarily mean that all dwarfs are dead. --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 20:31, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

==Vermin in caravans?==
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wamblers were in my list. I haven´t caught any vermin yet, so I put them in that cage, too. When I looked at the (elven) caravan they "stole" the vermin from them. Anyone has seen this, too?
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::I agree. The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages. However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({{k|v}} when highlighting the "empty" cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==No Wagons with Caravans==
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::maybe this is intentional as a "delay" from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)
:::It's <s>my first Mid-Winter</s> the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)

== Merchants going underground. ==

I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Trade Depots ==

Has there been any change for this?

== Traders go insane and starve ==

"If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death."
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved. I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment. Try locking the caravan on your map. Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
: In .31.25 I've just had a merchant and his pack animal go stark raving mad without holding the merchants hostage. I had no Trade Depot. I usually build a depot so I'm left scratching my beard on this. Is this new behavior? --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 18:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==

I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.

== No Dwarven Caravan ==

I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.

My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:The same thing happened to me. My fortress is in a "small region"-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?

== Caravan leaving through cave ==

I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Probably not a bug, as such. Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs. Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level. Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Forbidden Depots ==
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::I had traders go insane, probably because the depot was bulk-forbidden. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 20:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Traders taking forever to load up==
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items. I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out. Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too) However, there is way to prevent this. Pause the game after you get the "caravan has embarked" message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button. Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused. Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse. It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up. But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==

Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible.

In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.

In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...

Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
== Experience ==
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''
This isn't true for 40d. The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed. Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed. But the biggest thing was that it seemed like if you made that first trade for ''exactly'' 30%, your trader could get immense experience, even legendary. But it didn't seem to work when I tried it in .12 of late. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My experience, when I've checked through dwarf therapist, is that a dwarf will get points in appraisal once, and only once, some time (within seconds) after the completion of the first trade with a particular caravan. Tested using dwarfs with 0 experience in appraisal, haven't tested if changing dwarfs at the trade depot will allow you to train more than one dwarf per caravan, will do so later today, if future caravans remain free of goblins/magma/other fun.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Or they gain their experience on the first time looking at the goods, as I now remember it saying, somewhere... only one dwarf per caravan though =( And no experience gains shown at all for trading of items, so unless someone has seen clear evidence of multiple trades boosting experience gains we should probably remove that line.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? ==

I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

:Never have "only broker" set. It slows things down, and the benefit is, you don't get more than one dorf trained with appraiser skill (which means if the broker dies, you don't even see a price on anything). And the other benefit is, you can drive a harder bargain with the traders and therefore not get as much stuff brought in next time. What's the point? [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

:almost all dwarves "bring items to depot", I guess it's part of the non-toggleable jobs. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

: Even after turning off all other jobs, including hauling, I still get this problem. Even after confining him to a burrow consisting of nothing but the Depot, he'll still try to run off. The best solution is to request him as soon as the caravan is on the map, and it'll slide to the top of his job queue before it's gone. If you make a trade, he may run off again, so you might want to wait until everything you're trading away is there. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 14:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not certain(otherwise known as WAG time), but it seems like the trade at depot job doesn't become a priority until everything marked pending for trade has been hauled to the depot.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Emergency Supplies ==

It's fairly well known that caravans will bring lots of wooden logs if you don't have any in your fortress (including machine parts) or if you've forbidden all of them (something I've personally used numerous times - in my latest fort in 0.31.12, I managed to get elven and human caravans to bring over 200 logs each). It might be worth testing to see if caravans bring "emergency supplies" of things other than wooden logs - when I cooked all of my meat into prepared meals, the next human caravan decided to bring over 200 stacks of meat and prepared organs (it was enough to instantly overfill both of my 11x11 meat stockpiles, since my barrels were all full of booze). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I've got reasonable evidence that meat '''is''' considered an emergency good - when the human caravan arrived, the first horse was loaded up with wood logs and plants (which I had requested from the modded-in guild representative) and tons of meat (which I did '''not''' request), and the second horse was loaded up with a bunch more meat finally followed by several bins of cloth and leather, and the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the leather; the rest of the caravan also held some stacks of random types of meat. Normally, binned goods are loaded at maximum priority, but liaison requests and emergency supplies both seem to override that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::A quick test suggests that there are quite a few other emergency supplies - when I forbade '''everything''' in my fortress just before the Elven caravan arrived, the first horse was carrying nothing but plants, and the 2nd horse was carrying 50 bins of cloth plus lots of wooden logs, the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the logs and the mostly normal trade goods, and the 4th horse had the usual assortment. Repeating with everything unforbidden resulted in a much more "normal" caravan - 5 horses carrying 12 ropes, 9 instruments, 12 toys, 10 pets (7 large creatures, 3 vermin), 11 cages, 21 booze barrels, 18 empty barrels, 8 buckets, 7 weapons, 12 body armor, 8 pairs of footwear, 13 shields, 8 headgear, 12 pairs of handwear, 11 seed bags, 10 mill bags (all dye), 12 sand bags, 13 empty bags, 14 bins of cloth (all of which were on the first horse), 8 crafts, 13 stacks of arrows, 24 stacks of plants, 11 threads, 10 legwear, 11 splints, and 6 crutches. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== recent trading changes? ==

Has anyone else seen changes to the way traders trade? Looks to me like in .31.16 (as compared to .12) the acceptable markup is much higher (45% compared to as little as 10-15%), and appraisal and other broker experience seems to be deferred now (appraisal skill not rising with each trade anymore, it rises sometime after the caravan leaves)[[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== King offering ==

It looks like an offering of 5k is required to promote the city from barony. I sure would like to verify, but goblin seiges have pre-empted the liaison visits since becoming a barony. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== No Elven Cloth? ==

Something very interesting has happened in my current fortress - last Autumn, I captured a giant cave spider and started a silk farm, and so far I've woven over 200 pieces of cloth (and have plenty of thread ready to weave), and the Elven caravan just arrived in the Spring with '''zero bins of cloth''' (and about 11 of everything else they usually bring). Maybe they were only bringing cloth in the first place because I wasn't producing any of my own? Maybe they brought it as emergency supplies? More testing is definitely in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Just not an Elven Caravan without the useless bits of string, eh?

== Tunnel paths? ==

There's a few spots on this page and others where it mentions caravans coming from the edge of the map, and some people mentioning underground tunnels, but the game wont let me mine at the edge of the map, am I misinterpreting things or is that info out of date?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:You can't mine the edge of the map, but you ''can'' dig a tunnel all the way up to 1 square away, ending in a ramp to the surface. I think that's what the "Caravan Delay" section is suggesting. Also, above-ground walls and drawbridges cannot be built within 5 squares of the edge, but ''below'' ground ones can. Finally, if you've opened the caverns, it's reported (though I haven't seen it) that caravans can enter or exit there, so you may (or may not, I haven't tested this) be able to build a reasonably safe exit down there - i.e. you could wall up a path all the way to the edge - unless of course that Forgotten Beast happens to enter just where and when the caravan is exiting... [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 08:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Doors and traders==
I had my depot safely locked behind a set of doors, mainly to keep my stupid cats from wandering outside and getting mauled by the wild life. This was fine for the first two caravans (dwarf and elf, respectively), but the third one (a human one), while able to arrive just fine, was not able to leave until I removed the doors. Is this just a quirk? --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 04:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:After playing around a bit, I think the problem was simply a matter of the humans taking forever to leave after their 'departing' message had popped up. I've not run into this problem since. --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 02:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

== Traders forgot stuff ==

They left their stuff behind. Quite a lot of it. I consider it a windfall, considering we had nothing left to eat or trade on the first caravan, so intent were we on our build.

== Traders won't accept 1:1 trade? ==

I just tried to trade with a dwarven caravan, and it wouldn't accept it. "With your trade goods such as they are, I cannot fathom you ending up with these items." The trade was 1:1; no profit or loss for either side.
They wouldn't trade for a -1 loss either, saying they wouldn't trade for a loss.
.....Why? --[[User:Ruan942|Ruan942]] 12:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:To my knowledge, traders prefer to make a profit, especially if your broker is lacking in social skills. --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 03:01, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:Traders demand about 5-10% profit - after all they took the risk of traveling to your fortrees.

I can say that they WILL accept a 1:1 trade, give or take a few 10's IF and only IF your trader is nearly Legendary in his skill and is great in social skills (Negotiator mostly)

The ratio of profit grows smaller when the merchant (trader) becomes happier with his profits and if your broker is blessed with a silver tongue. If the trader is ecstatic, you may trade for 1:1 deals if the above is present. Merchants '''never''' accept a loss in profits, no matter how happy he is and how good your broker is. --[[User:Tir|Tir]] 11:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

== Childish Games? ==

Hey, I've just recently started playing Dwarf Fortress. I've traded with caravans before, but on a new fortress the traders instantly said "Enough of your childish games." and set off, even though they had about a 100 DB profit. Help?

--100DB out of what, though? Out of 100DB, fine. Out of 2000DB? Only once you've traded a while with them. Give them lots of profit (200%) for the first few trades. Even if they are smaller amounts. Once you notice they're willing to trade, you can reduce the percentage of profit. Also, note that the caravan trader will get more and more upset for each unacceptable trade. I make (or goblins give me) so much cra..er junk in my fort that I'm usually trading 200,000DB for 5000DB back. Later in the game, you don't really need much from the traders. I use them to remove stuff I don't want anymore, like *Large Rope Reed Trousers*.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

==Dwarven Caravan Every Other Year==

As the title says. It seems that they only come once every two years. Has anyone else seen this?--[[User
:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 03:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
:Only when I'm under siege. Traders won't some if a siege comes when they would have. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 14:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

== Wild Animal Trading ==

I can verify that benign wild animals are also released when trying to trad, not just aggressive animals. I tried to sell some traders some wild unicorns, and the dwarfs set them free.
But question, will Seizing an item warrant a siege, even if you already traded them lots of stuff and give them a huge profit? I'm trying to get rid of caravans as soon as I've traded everything I've wanted without making them too angry.--[[Special:Contributions/69.135.213.251|69.135.213.251]]

I've wondered the same thing. Find out for us! My guess is seizing things will not result in a siege as long as the caravan turns a profit.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

== Repeatedly massacring the dwarven caravan ==

I heard that you can massacre the dwarven caravan repeatedly and there would be no repercussions. One, is this true, and two, [[DF2010:!!SCIENCE!!|can ballistas hurt the caravan]]? --[[Special:Contributions/71.180.66.233|71.180.66.233]] 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

You can't have a war against your own race, so so long as you don't trap them (and make them go insane), then nothing will happen to piss off your civ.
Second, Ballistas can damage ANYTHING they can go through, including trees, so that would be a definite yes.
[[Special:Contributions/107.9.22.199|107.9.22.199]] 02:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

== unconscious pack animals ==

I just had a merchant yak ko'd by a goblin but the guy leading it just pulled the unconscious animal onwards with all it's stuff still on it. It got diced up when it got to my weapon traps though because of the unconsciousness triggering traps thing. weird.--[[Special:Contributions/70.79.199.141|70.79.199.141]] 19:26, 13 July 2011 (UTC).
:Yeah, I reported that bug. Good to know I'm not the only one seeing it. I don't think it is a major bug, though. {{bug|3129}}--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2011-07-19T11:04:04Z

Tir: /* Traders won't accept 1:1 trade? */

==Trader's won't show goods==
Traders from my home civ show up, and they have loads upon loads of goods, but the trade window says they have nothing. I really need the goods they have. Help?--[[User:HugoLuman|HugoLuman]] 00:38, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

==Colors of Containers==
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Note that AD was talking about the color displayed in the trading screen, not the color of the item. Any container will display according to the origin of the container, regardless of the contents. So your barrel was foreign (listed in white), despite the fact that the cheese was local. When you (v)iew the item, the contents are listed, colored according to their origin (regardless of the container's origin). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

==No Dwarves==
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

* always arrives regardless of embark location, as long as the dwarven civilization is not extinct.Verify
-- This doesn't make sense either. If dwarfs are dead, who's embarking?
::I've never seen no-trade from the dwarves. Also, I second the comment about embarking. Isn't the fail condition for a world if the dwarfs don't survive?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
:::It's entirely possible to generate a world where all dwarf civilizations are no more. In this case, you still get two waves of immigrants but no caravans will come. For some this is a very desirable play scenario. The end of all dwarf civilizations does not necessarily mean that all dwarfs are dead. --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 20:31, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

==Vermin in caravans?==
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wamblers were in my list. I haven´t caught any vermin yet, so I put them in that cage, too. When I looked at the (elven) caravan they "stole" the vermin from them. Anyone has seen this, too?
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::I agree. The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages. However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({{k|v}} when highlighting the "empty" cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==No Wagons with Caravans==
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::maybe this is intentional as a "delay" from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)
:::It's <s>my first Mid-Winter</s> the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)

== Merchants going underground. ==

I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Trade Depots ==

Has there been any change for this?

== Traders go insane and starve ==

"If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death."
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved. I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment. Try locking the caravan on your map. Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
: In .31.25 I've just had a merchant and his pack animal go stark raving mad without holding the merchants hostage. I had no Trade Depot. I usually build a depot so I'm left scratching my beard on this. Is this new behavior? --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 18:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==

I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.

== No Dwarven Caravan ==

I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.

My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:The same thing happened to me. My fortress is in a "small region"-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?

== Caravan leaving through cave ==

I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Probably not a bug, as such. Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs. Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level. Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Forbidden Depots ==
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::I had traders go insane, probably because the depot was bulk-forbidden. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 20:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Traders taking forever to load up==
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items. I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out. Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too) However, there is way to prevent this. Pause the game after you get the "caravan has embarked" message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button. Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused. Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse. It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up. But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==

Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible.

In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.

In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...

Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
== Experience ==
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''
This isn't true for 40d. The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed. Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed. But the biggest thing was that it seemed like if you made that first trade for ''exactly'' 30%, your trader could get immense experience, even legendary. But it didn't seem to work when I tried it in .12 of late. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My experience, when I've checked through dwarf therapist, is that a dwarf will get points in appraisal once, and only once, some time (within seconds) after the completion of the first trade with a particular caravan. Tested using dwarfs with 0 experience in appraisal, haven't tested if changing dwarfs at the trade depot will allow you to train more than one dwarf per caravan, will do so later today, if future caravans remain free of goblins/magma/other fun.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Or they gain their experience on the first time looking at the goods, as I now remember it saying, somewhere... only one dwarf per caravan though =( And no experience gains shown at all for trading of items, so unless someone has seen clear evidence of multiple trades boosting experience gains we should probably remove that line.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? ==

I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

:Never have "only broker" set. It slows things down, and the benefit is, you don't get more than one dorf trained with appraiser skill (which means if the broker dies, you don't even see a price on anything). And the other benefit is, you can drive a harder bargain with the traders and therefore not get as much stuff brought in next time. What's the point? [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

:almost all dwarves "bring items to depot", I guess it's part of the non-toggleable jobs. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

: Even after turning off all other jobs, including hauling, I still get this problem. Even after confining him to a burrow consisting of nothing but the Depot, he'll still try to run off. The best solution is to request him as soon as the caravan is on the map, and it'll slide to the top of his job queue before it's gone. If you make a trade, he may run off again, so you might want to wait until everything you're trading away is there. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 14:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not certain(otherwise known as WAG time), but it seems like the trade at depot job doesn't become a priority until everything marked pending for trade has been hauled to the depot.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Emergency Supplies ==

It's fairly well known that caravans will bring lots of wooden logs if you don't have any in your fortress (including machine parts) or if you've forbidden all of them (something I've personally used numerous times - in my latest fort in 0.31.12, I managed to get elven and human caravans to bring over 200 logs each). It might be worth testing to see if caravans bring "emergency supplies" of things other than wooden logs - when I cooked all of my meat into prepared meals, the next human caravan decided to bring over 200 stacks of meat and prepared organs (it was enough to instantly overfill both of my 11x11 meat stockpiles, since my barrels were all full of booze). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I've got reasonable evidence that meat '''is''' considered an emergency good - when the human caravan arrived, the first horse was loaded up with wood logs and plants (which I had requested from the modded-in guild representative) and tons of meat (which I did '''not''' request), and the second horse was loaded up with a bunch more meat finally followed by several bins of cloth and leather, and the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the leather; the rest of the caravan also held some stacks of random types of meat. Normally, binned goods are loaded at maximum priority, but liaison requests and emergency supplies both seem to override that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::A quick test suggests that there are quite a few other emergency supplies - when I forbade '''everything''' in my fortress just before the Elven caravan arrived, the first horse was carrying nothing but plants, and the 2nd horse was carrying 50 bins of cloth plus lots of wooden logs, the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the logs and the mostly normal trade goods, and the 4th horse had the usual assortment. Repeating with everything unforbidden resulted in a much more "normal" caravan - 5 horses carrying 12 ropes, 9 instruments, 12 toys, 10 pets (7 large creatures, 3 vermin), 11 cages, 21 booze barrels, 18 empty barrels, 8 buckets, 7 weapons, 12 body armor, 8 pairs of footwear, 13 shields, 8 headgear, 12 pairs of handwear, 11 seed bags, 10 mill bags (all dye), 12 sand bags, 13 empty bags, 14 bins of cloth (all of which were on the first horse), 8 crafts, 13 stacks of arrows, 24 stacks of plants, 11 threads, 10 legwear, 11 splints, and 6 crutches. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== recent trading changes? ==

Has anyone else seen changes to the way traders trade? Looks to me like in .31.16 (as compared to .12) the acceptable markup is much higher (45% compared to as little as 10-15%), and appraisal and other broker experience seems to be deferred now (appraisal skill not rising with each trade anymore, it rises sometime after the caravan leaves)[[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== King offering ==

It looks like an offering of 5k is required to promote the city from barony. I sure would like to verify, but goblin seiges have pre-empted the liaison visits since becoming a barony. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== No Elven Cloth? ==

Something very interesting has happened in my current fortress - last Autumn, I captured a giant cave spider and started a silk farm, and so far I've woven over 200 pieces of cloth (and have plenty of thread ready to weave), and the Elven caravan just arrived in the Spring with '''zero bins of cloth''' (and about 11 of everything else they usually bring). Maybe they were only bringing cloth in the first place because I wasn't producing any of my own? Maybe they brought it as emergency supplies? More testing is definitely in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Just not an Elven Caravan without the useless bits of string, eh?

== Tunnel paths? ==

There's a few spots on this page and others where it mentions caravans coming from the edge of the map, and some people mentioning underground tunnels, but the game wont let me mine at the edge of the map, am I misinterpreting things or is that info out of date?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:You can't mine the edge of the map, but you ''can'' dig a tunnel all the way up to 1 square away, ending in a ramp to the surface. I think that's what the "Caravan Delay" section is suggesting. Also, above-ground walls and drawbridges cannot be built within 5 squares of the edge, but ''below'' ground ones can. Finally, if you've opened the caverns, it's reported (though I haven't seen it) that caravans can enter or exit there, so you may (or may not, I haven't tested this) be able to build a reasonably safe exit down there - i.e. you could wall up a path all the way to the edge - unless of course that Forgotten Beast happens to enter just where and when the caravan is exiting... [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 08:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Doors and traders==
I had my depot safely locked behind a set of doors, mainly to keep my stupid cats from wandering outside and getting mauled by the wild life. This was fine for the first two caravans (dwarf and elf, respectively), but the third one (a human one), while able to arrive just fine, was not able to leave until I removed the doors. Is this just a quirk? --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 04:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:After playing around a bit, I think the problem was simply a matter of the humans taking forever to leave after their 'departing' message had popped up. I've not run into this problem since. --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 02:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

== Traders forgot stuff ==

They left their stuff behind. Quite a lot of it. I consider it a windfall, considering we had nothing left to eat or trade on the first caravan, so intent were we on our build.

== Traders won't accept 1:1 trade? ==

I just tried to trade with a dwarven caravan, and it wouldn't accept it. "With your trade goods such as they are, I cannot fathom you ending up with these items." The trade was 1:1; no profit or loss for either side.
They wouldn't trade for a -1 loss either, saying they wouldn't trade for a loss.
.....Why? --[[User:Ruan942|Ruan942]] 12:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:To my knowledge, traders prefer to make a profit, especially if your broker is lacking in social skills. --[[User:Shatari|Shatari]] 03:01, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:Traders demand about 5-10% profit - after all they took the risk of traveling to your fortrees.

I can say that they WILL accept a 1:1 trade, give or take a few 10's IF and only IF your trader is nearly Legendary in his skill and is great in social skills (Negotiator mostly)

The ratio of profit grows smaller when the merchant (trader) becomes happier with his profits and if your broker is blessed with a silver tongue. If the trader is ecstatic, you may trade for 1:1 deals if the above is present. Merchants '''never''' accept a loss in profits, no matter how happy he is and how good your broker is.

== Childish Games? ==

Hey, I've just recently started playing Dwarf Fortress. I've traded with caravans before, but on a new fortress the traders instantly said "Enough of your childish games." and set off, even though they had about a 100 DB profit. Help?

--100DB out of what, though? Out of 100DB, fine. Out of 2000DB? Only once you've traded a while with them. Give them lots of profit (200%) for the first few trades. Even if they are smaller amounts. Once you notice they're willing to trade, you can reduce the percentage of profit. Also, note that the caravan trader will get more and more upset for each unacceptable trade. I make (or goblins give me) so much cra..er junk in my fort that I'm usually trading 200,000DB for 5000DB back. Later in the game, you don't really need much from the traders. I use them to remove stuff I don't want anymore, like *Large Rope Reed Trousers*.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

==Dwarven Caravan Every Other Year==

As the title says. It seems that they only come once every two years. Has anyone else seen this?--[[User
:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 03:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
:Only when I'm under siege. Traders won't some if a siege comes when they would have. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 14:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

== Wild Animal Trading ==

I can verify that benign wild animals are also released when trying to trad, not just aggressive animals. I tried to sell some traders some wild unicorns, and the dwarfs set them free.
But question, will Seizing an item warrant a siege, even if you already traded them lots of stuff and give them a huge profit? I'm trying to get rid of caravans as soon as I've traded everything I've wanted without making them too angry.--[[Special:Contributions/69.135.213.251|69.135.213.251]]

I've wondered the same thing. Find out for us! My guess is seizing things will not result in a siege as long as the caravan turns a profit.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

== Repeatedly massacring the dwarven caravan ==

I heard that you can massacre the dwarven caravan repeatedly and there would be no repercussions. One, is this true, and two, [[DF2010:!!SCIENCE!!|can ballistas hurt the caravan]]? --[[Special:Contributions/71.180.66.233|71.180.66.233]] 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

You can't have a war against your own race, so so long as you don't trap them (and make them go insane), then nothing will happen to piss off your civ.
Second, Ballistas can damage ANYTHING they can go through, including trees, so that would be a definite yes.
[[Special:Contributions/107.9.22.199|107.9.22.199]] 02:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

== unconscious pack animals ==

I just had a merchant yak ko'd by a goblin but the guy leading it just pulled the unconscious animal onwards with all it's stuff still on it. It got diced up when it got to my weapon traps though because of the unconsciousness triggering traps thing. weird.--[[Special:Contributions/70.79.199.141|70.79.199.141]] 19:26, 13 July 2011 (UTC).
:Yeah, I reported that bug. Good to know I'm not the only one seeing it. I don't think it is a major bug, though. {{bug|3129}}--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Noble

2011-07-14T11:46:00Z

Tir: /* Nobles as Soldiers? */

How many nobles could I have in a dwarven fortress with 200 citizens? ie. how many nobles' bedrooms should I build, if none of the noble positions are occupied by the same person. --Anonymous

Should this page be moved to [[DF2010:Nobles]]? [[User:Immibis|Immibis]] 08:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think so, so I'll do it. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 08:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

== How to appoint Nobles? ==
How do you do that? In the page it says "Appointed nobles can be chosen by the player" BUT IT DOESNT EXPLAIN HOW TO APPOINT THEM! I need to appoint a Militia Commander, but there's no Militia Commander spot. It doesnt say "VACANT". IT JUST DOESNT APPEAR!
Help, anyone?

== Appointed vs. Immigrant Nobles ==
I think much of this article only applies to nobles that emigrate from the mountainhomes. My Count still mines and carries rocks. Also, it should be made clear that the economy is nonfunctional and, for instance, tax collectors will never appear. Finally, what are the implications of NOT accepting when the liaison offers you a barony? I assume a baron comes anyway. I have never gotten a noble imigrant of any sort, do you need to reject the offer to get, for example, a dungeon master? [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
:I posted on the forum, and it seems that if you don't appoint someone, the liaison will simply leave and try again next year. Which raises the question: are there ANY immigrant nobles in 31? I have not seen a single one in over a dozen forts and over twenty years total game time. I don't think much of this applies to the current game. Nobles are not lazy. They will continue to work at their regular jobs. Econ exempt is meaningless, there is no econ. The hammerer doesn't show up, no arsenal dwarf, no dungeon master, no tax collector. I haven't gotten a monarch yet, can anyone who has comment on this? Does your leader get raised to king, or does the king actually immigrate? This whole page seems more geared towards the previous version. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 21:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
::The monarch '''does''' immigrate, though it seems to be quite common for said monarch to drop dead of old age immediately upon arriving at your fortress. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:09, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The monarch even immigrates with an immigrant wave that has ~5 Elite weapon users. They drop their armor (I don't remember now if they had any) and weapons as soon as they enter the map because they are not assigned to any squad by default and military/guard duties are nearly completely decoupled from civilian professions unlike in the .40d.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:28, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the info. Can anyone confirm which nobles will and will not show up? I believe the Tax Collector will never show, as there is no economy. I, personally, have not seen a Dungeon Master on any .31.x generated world. Nor a Hammerer. Nor a Champion, but then I have not obtained any elite warriors yet. Can anyone confirm or deny the existence of the Dungeon Master, Champion, and Hammerer? I would love to take a stab at rewriting this page to make it more useful and less technical, but I don't want to spread misinformation based on just my experiences. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 20:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I was searching the forums and even left some requests* about reporting Baron/...-related nobles but only mentions I could find were about modding bookkeeper or manager to perform additional duties like [TAME_EXOTICS]. Given the caravan ark and world-wide economy are the immediate next development goals I suppose there will be major changes to fortress mode economy as well. And Toady will probably rather write new nobles code after that than fix existing one now. The comment part about hammer in the Hammerer raws obviously suggests that some parts of related code are plainly not implemented yet. Same goes for fortress mode caravans and wagons. <nowiki>*</nowiki> I also tried various tricks myself in unmodded DF for no effect.--[[User:Another|Another]] 10:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== the raws ==

can someone put the raw files responsible for all the noble atributes on the wiki somewhere i cant find them Edit: nvm found it in entity_default.txt --[[User:Xainiax|Xainiax]] 23:45, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== SOLDIER_COLOR ==

The [SOLDIER_COLOR] token in the raws was actually SOLDIER_COLOR] (no left bracket). Whether this was done intentionally to comment them out is unclear, but I have corrected the 'typo' in this article. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 13:48, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== Human Noble - High Goal ==

I was wandering around a human town and entered a temple when I found a peculiar sight. There was a human called a High Goal standing there. I have no idea what he was meant to be and a google search reveals nothing, nor could I find a 'high goal' in the raws. Anyone got any clue? [[User:KoboldInDisguise|KoboldInDisguise]] 02:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Religious positions get randomised. You can have to high-priests of different temples and they'll be called entirely different things. Check the legends. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 06:55, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Monarch ==

Have the requirements for a king changed since 40d?

[POSITION:MONARCH] [NAME_MALE:king:kings] [NAME_FEMALE:queen:queens] [NUMBER:1] [SPOUSE_MALE:king consort:kings consort] [SPOUSE_FEMALE:queen consort:queens consort] [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR] [RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING] [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS] [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS] [PRECEDENCE:1] [RULES_FROM_LOCATION] [MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION] [MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE] [SLEEP_PRETENSION] [PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION] [FLASHES] [BRAG_ON_KILL] [CHAT_WORTHY] [DO_NOT_CULL] [KILL_QUEST] [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS] [DETERMINES_COIN_DESIGN] [COLOR:5:0:1] [ACCOUNT_EXEMPT] [DUTY_BOUND] [DEMAND_MAX:10] [MANDATE_MAX:5] [REQUIRED_BOXES:10] [REQUIRED_CABINETS:5] [REQUIRED_RACKS:5] [REQUIRED_STANDS:5] [REQUIRED_OFFICE:10000] [REQUIRED_BEDROOM:10000] [REQUIRED_DINING:10000] [REQUIRED_TOMB:10000]

This should answer your question [[User:Numeral|Numeral]] 09:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

==Individual Noble Articles==

Added articles for every noble, still need to go through the raws and add functions and arrival conditions, if anyone reads this you're more than welcome to help [[User:Numeral|Numeral]] 09:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

==Noble Death==

My Count was murdered by the green menace....several years ago. Does anybody know how one goes about getting a new count/Baron/something purple?
My fortress is sitting at 39 dorfs and 6mill wealth, I have adamantine roads and and Throne room designed for a king and I would like to fill it.
--Anonymous
:At a loose guess, you need to up the number of dwarfs in your fortress, either through immigration or breeding, and you need to export more wealth. Apparently, the King only sends a Duke if you've got 140 dwarves and have exported thirty thousand wealth (presumably just to the dwarven civilization). As to getting a replacement Count or Baron... did the old Count have any kids? They'd be his heirs... I think... --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 22:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

::Well, My first was single, no children. I've exported 30000 on the button, but I assume that counts all exports and is not exclusive to the dwarves. If that's the case, I am gonna give the dwarven caravan a massive amount of goods this autumn. I am not sure about the 140 dwarves thing. The liaison appointed a dwarf when I still had the population limit at 30 (I like to run smaller fortresses for organization purposes). I'll report in on any new findings. Oh, and I have struck several HFS columns and even breached the carnival once, though I revealed it through fortifications so the clowns couldn't reach my fortress. I don't think HFS prompts anything any more. --Anonymous

==Not Masterwork==
I've changed the quality of the article down to Exceptional. The {{L|Forced Administrator}} link needs to be created. [[Special:Contributions/99.251.48.18|99.251.48.18]] 04:31, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== Furniture Requirements ==

Do the required bits of furniture have the be in a certain room? or just in any room that the noble owns?
:It is the total items of furniture in all rooms assigned to the noble. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 19:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

== General / Lieutenant / Captain ==

Does anyone have information on these positions? Are they attainable? --[[User:Theothersteve7|Theothersteve7]] 19:46, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

== Nobles as Soldiers? ==

I've heard that nobles can still work as civilians even with all those mandates and demands and even if some are listed as NOBLE (which somehow means that they don't work?)

So, can nobles actually work as part/full time soldiers? The fact that they are actually fighting for the fortress that they have mandated so much upon would help.
--[[User:Tir|Tir]] 12:28, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

:Not sure, but my Count is an accomplished full-time fisherdwarf (I need to make him a yacht). I would guess that the answer is yes. --[[User:Theothersteve7|Theothersteve7]] 13:32, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

So it is true then that even if they have the title "NOBLE" in the UNITS screen, they are just like any ordinary dwarf (Here we go Noble Army!). Just that they are different by having their ''needs'' satisfied then. --[[User:Tir|Tir]] 11:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Noble

2011-07-11T12:28:30Z

Tir:

v0.31 Talk:Noble

2011-07-11T12:26:27Z

Tir: /* Nobles as Soldiers? */ new section

v0.31:Trading

2011-06-02T03:30:47Z

Tir: /* Bugs */

{{quality|Exceptional|07:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)}}{{av}}
{{Buggy}}

'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first {{L|Calendar|autumn}} after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the {{L|dwarf|Dwarven}} {{L|Trading#Caravans|caravan}}. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear or purchase of additional skills for the expedition party, because items can always be obtained through trade later.

'''Trader''' is the term used at your Trade Depot to refer to your fortress {{l|Broker}} when dealing with merchants in a visiting caravan ({{key|r}} - "''Trader requested at Depot"''). As a {{L|profession}}, the term usually only applies to visiting merchants, or to a dwarf whose highest {{L|skill}} is {{L|Appraiser}}.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a {{L|Trade depot}} is a requisite for trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress.

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside at first, it is usually a really good idea to move it inside or build walls, bridges and other fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from animals (guzzlers), {{L|thief|thieves}} and {{L|goblin}}s.

Everything that is on your map belongs to you, except:
* the items of non-fortress members (only if they are alive, when they are dead they belong to you if you claim the items),{{Verify}}
* the items that are on merchant animals{{Verify}}
* the items that are on the trade depot (they belong to the caravan until they are moved out of it)

See the {{L|Trade depot}} article for more information on how to interact with it.

==Trading Flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better {{L|Appraisal}} skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to propose the trade, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's {{L|Broker skills|skills}} and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counterproposals can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again. Note however that a low profit margin for the traders may not be desirable - it has been suggested that both export and profit numbers influence the size of next years caravan and, in the case of the dwarven caravan, immigration numbers.{{Verify}}

Goods brought by caravans do not have base quality higher than superior, but decorations on a good may be of any quality.{{Verify}}

== Trading cue colors ==

* '''Brown''' Items have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* '''White''' Items were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* '''Purple''' Items are under a no-export mandate. If they are traded away it will result in disciplinary action (see [[justice]]) against the dwarf that brought the item to the depot.{{Verify}}
* '''Green''' Items have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.
* '''Red''' Items have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items. However, a caravan from a different civilization ''may'' accept stolen goods without changing them first.{{verify}}

Note that containers (barrels, bins, etc) will be displayed according to the origin of the container, not the contents. So a foreign barrel holding locally-produced beer will display as foreign (white). Once you {{k|v}}iew the container, the locally-made contents are displayed as local (brown).

== Merchant mood ==
If your broker has Novice or better {{L|Judge of intent}} skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

An easy way to capitalize on this mood system is to perform several partial trades. First trade for a few items, offering goods twice the value of the items you ask for (eg, offer 2000☼ for 1000☼ of his stuff). This will likely make the merchant ecstatic about trading with you. Exit the trade screen, unpause briefly, and then return to trading with a vengeance. With the merchant in such a good mood, he is more likely to counteroffer than reject a trade outright.

== Seizing items ==

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy goods stolen from one of their caravans (then marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "laundered" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic {{L|siege}}.{{Verify}}

Pressing the seize button while no goods are selected will result in the merchant interpreting your seizure as a joke. This apparently does nothing to benefit or hinder your trading.{{Verify}}

As a side note, if you deconstruct your trade depot with a caravan in it, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your Dwarves. This does not mark the items as stolen, and the caravan will leave. However, ''next'' year's caravan is partly based on the profits from the previous year - so if you are relying on that race's caravans for needed items, you're hurting yourself in the long run.{{Verify}}

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid the trade depot just before they leave, causing them to leave their goods at the depot.{{Verify}}

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an {{L|ambush}} killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a {{L|siege}} instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!{{Verify}}

==Offering items==

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the {{L|civilization}} you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction, though there is not yet a clear correlation between the value of the offerings and the improvement to relations. The exact effects of offerings on trading are unknown but it is believed due to the offerings' net trade value being counted towards the traders' profit, possibly with a modifier (possibly a multiplier of more than 1 as a bonus or less than 1 to compensate for the improved relations){{Verify}}, which in turn increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the {{L|King}} usually requires offerings to be made before his arrival.{{Verify}} You cannot offer items that were not made at your fortress; the traders do not want your spare goblin harvest clothes.

'''''Note:''' There are currently no benefits to offering goods to your king; the game developers have stated that this is to be changed in future versions.'' ("''Req174, REASON FOR OFFERING, (Future): There's no point of offering goods to your own king right now.)"''

Unless you are looking for [[fun]], under no conditions should you offer or trade items which are wooden or used wood in their creation (glass, for example) to [[elves]], as this will insult the traders, and may cause them to leave or even damage relations enough to provoke a war between you and the elven civilization you traded with. They will be equally insulted by you trading back their wood-related items - their refusal to accept back their wooden items is probably a bug which will be removed in a later release, though this has not been verified. It is also worth noting that in-game the only way to acquire wood is by chopping down trees, so it is likely that the elves have developed a method of growing and acquiring wood without killing trees which will be included in later development.

== Miscellaneous Trading Advice ==

* Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game.
* Food inside the Trade Depot can go bad. Have a food stockpile nearby so you can quickly haul goods inside.
* Thieves and thieving critters tend to follow caravans. Expect assaults and intruders.
* Be careful about asking traders to bring lots of individual lightweight items (such as meat and fish) as it can result in traders taking a very long time to unload their goods. Unless the path to your depot is extremely long, though, this is unlikely to cause significant problems.{{Verify}}
* Create your trading depot inside your fort, preferably in the beginning. Place a 3-tile wide path (which must be free of obstructions such as stairways) to the entrance of the fort and line this with traps; this will help to protect the traders and keep the depot close to your supplies.
* All caravans will bring extra food (meat and edible plants) and wooden logs if the supplies of your fortress are low enough, independent of whether or not you requested them. This does not apply in the case that the weight limit is exceeded by (other) items you requested. The supply situation, as observed by traders, is based solely on the number of unforbidden items in your fortress, whether stockpiled or utilized in buildings (such as wooden axles, water wheels, windmills, or workshops); thus, it is possible to trick caravans into thinking your supplies are low by {{L|forbid}}ding all of your relevant stocks immediately prior to their arrival.  This also seems to apply to elven caravans bringing {{L|cloth}} (except that cloth that's turned into {{L|clothing}}, {{L|bag}}s or {{L|rope}} isn't counted). So if you want elven caravans to ''stop'' bringing cloth, buy up all the cloth that the first few caravans bring and stash them somewhere.
* Define your trade depot as a burrow. When traders arrive, you can add your broker or another dwarf, perhaps one you want to train in trading, to the burrow. They will head to the depot immediately, and stay there until you remove them from the burrow.

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan per year, linked to one season, which is autumn for dwarves, summer for humans, spring for elves. In rare cases, goblins will show up in winter.{{verify}} However, in the first year only a dwarven caravan will arrive, although it will tend to arrive later than mid-autumn, unlike previous versions {{verify}}. Caravans will only show up if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen), with the exception of dwarves, who always arrive unless they are extinct.{{verify}} Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating {{L|civilization}}, and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot. Caravans will embark on their journey back exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.{{Verify}}

Note that if traders or their animals are prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}} [Verified in 31.16 - Locked-in traders go insane, throw off their clothes, eventually attack a dwarf and are put down]

Also worth mention is the pathing behavior of the entire caravan. If one member of the caravan reaches a block in their chosen path (ie. a raised drawbridge that was lowered when they entered the map) the entire caravan will re-path, instead of encountering the obstacle one by one.

== Liaisons ==
{{L|Liaison}}s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. (THEY WILL SPEAK TO THOSE DWARVES! Even if they have to wait by the bed side in the hospital for months after the caravan left.) They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liaison of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

Note that if a liaison is prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}}

==== {{L|Dwarves}} ====
:''"Our fortunes rise and fall together"''

The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|autumn}}.
* carries metal bars, {{L|leather}}, weapons and armor, food and booze, and more. Dwarves alone may bring {{L|steel}} and steel goods.
* is well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the {{L|Expedition leader}}, {{L|Mayor}}, {{L|Baron}}, {{L|Count}}, or {{L|Duke}} to negotiate an import-export agreement (unless the {{L|Monarch}} is present).
* influences the number of immigrants received (if the caravan leaves intact).{{verify}}
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location, as long as the dwarven civilization is not extinct.{{verify}}
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.
* may not arrive if your civilization lacks any notable figures.

==== {{L|elf|Elves}} ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in the {{L|Calendar|spring}}.
* carries {{L|cloth}}, {{L|rope}}s, various above-ground seeds, {{L|plant}}s and their byproducts, {{L|log}}s, {{L|wood}}en goods & {{L|weapon}}s, clothing and {{L|armor}}, and may carry tame exotic {{L|creature}}s.
* is unguarded.
* does not accept some items in trade:

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include:

* {{L|Wood}}en items (including subterranean mushrooms such as {{L|tower-cap}}s)
* Items derived from wood - {{L|ash}} and {{L|charcoal}}, as well as {{L|lye}}, {{L|potash}}, and {{L|pearlash}}
* Items made from clear and crystal {{L|glass}} (due to the {{L|pearlash}} used) - green glass appears to be perfectly acceptable
* Items {{L|decoration|decorated}} with any of the above materials
* {{L|Obsidian}} shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* {{L|Soap}} (made with {{L|lye}})

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the mood of the trader to drop rapidly, causing them to refuse to trade any more that season and leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for not understanding their customs.

However, {{L|stone}} and {{L|metal}} items, even when {{L|charcoal}} is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from {{L|silk}} are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as {{L|cloth}} and {{L|thread}}. Items made of bone (totems too), horn, shell or leather are acceptable, so are meat and fish. You can also transport your goods to the {{L|trade depot}} in a wooden {{L|bin}}, as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the {{L|cage}} or {{L|trap}} is not made of {{L|wood}}.

Be especially careful with reselling decorated items from other caravans, as non-wood/glass items may have decorations of wood or clear/crystal glass. All such items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== {{L|Human}}s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|summer}}.
* carries metal bars, sand, {{L|leather}}, cloth, food and booze, ropes, waterskins, quivers, backpacks, bronze weapons and (too large) clothing and armor, cages and a few domestic animals.
* moderately guarded.

==== {{L|Goblin}}s{{Verify}} ====
A goblin caravan ''may'' arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*will arrive every season, four times per year{{verify}}
*unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

== Destruction ==
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a {{L|cave-in}} will flee as if they were attacked, but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed {{L|mule}} and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animals will only be stunned or rendered unconscious, and flee shortly after recovering from the hit.

While caravans can defend themselves, they don't like being ambushed. An encounter with unfriendly creatures resulting in the death of any merchant or pack animal will cause them to retreat and forget about trading with you for the season. Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a {{L|siege}}.

== Caravan Delay ==
If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death. It is not known for certain if this hurts diplomatic relations, but most likely it's the same as any case where the entire caravan fails to return home.{{Verify}}

If you have locked the caravan into your fortress to hold out against a siege, it's a good idea to station a squad of soldiers near the trade depot in case the merchants {{L|Insanity#Types|go berserk}}. You may also want to make the depot a restricted area to encourage civilians to go around it. Alternatively, you can design the trade depot using drawbridges, so that it can be sealed off from the rest of the fortress during a siege.

If you want the merchants to leave safely, you can build four or more tunnels to each corner of the map, connected to your fortress only by drawbridges. As long as there is no other way to enter and exit your fortress, invaders and merchants will both go towards any tunnel that you activate. You can lock the merchants into the trade depot, and then open a tunnel entrance on one side of the map to make the invaders head towards that tunnel. When they get close to it, you can close it, and then open the entrance on the other side of the map, and let the traders out of the depot. If your fortress and depot are in the middle of the map, this will give the traders quite a head-start to get away.{{Verify}}

Caravan guards cannot be starved, dehydrated, or driven to insanity if prevented from leaving, their employers and animals will however.

== Bugs ==

*No one brings wagons, even if there is a clear path to your depot. {{bug|197}}
*Wild animals cannot be traded; when a dwarf attempts to move the caged animal to the Depot, the creature is set free.Only aggressive animals?
*If your {{L|hospital}} isn't already stocked with the specified amount of thread/cloth, your dwarves will carry off as much from the caravan as they need to fill it. {{Bug|66}}
*Caravans show up very late in the season. {{Bug|1756}}
*If you order your military to kill merchants from your own civilization, your soldiers will simultaneously become members ''and'' enemies of the fortress, resulting in a civil war within your fortress. When this happens, all current members of the fortress (excluding incoming migrants) will turn on each other yet they will still be seen as normal working dwarves in the status screens. This will only last for those who were alive ''during'' the attack, they will always be hostile to everyone including incoming migrants (yet they still do their jobs/ follow military orders and work as dwarves although they will interrupt other's work. They will not be shown as enemies in the Units screen).

== Exploits ==

*If you destroy the Depot while they are unloaded you will get the leaving message but they will leave before the building is completely destroyed, so they will not reclaim any of their stuff because it is not available until the building is fully deconstructed. However any animals they had caged will only become friendly, you won't actually own them.

If you wait some time (2-3 months{{verify}}), you can "claim" animals by linking a lever to the cage and opening it, the animals will be released in a tamed state. Check the 'u'nit screen before releasing them; if the creatures still show as Merchant creatures, they will wander off the map when released; if they show as Tame creatures, they will stay once released.

v0.31:Trading

2011-06-02T03:10:57Z

Tir:

{{quality|Exceptional|07:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)}}{{av}}
{{Buggy}}

'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first {{L|Calendar|autumn}} after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the {{L|dwarf|Dwarven}} {{L|Trading#Caravans|caravan}}. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear or purchase of additional skills for the expedition party, because items can always be obtained through trade later.

'''Trader''' is the term used at your Trade Depot to refer to your fortress {{l|Broker}} when dealing with merchants in a visiting caravan ({{key|r}} - "''Trader requested at Depot"''). As a {{L|profession}}, the term usually only applies to visiting merchants, or to a dwarf whose highest {{L|skill}} is {{L|Appraiser}}.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a {{L|Trade depot}} is a requisite for trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress.

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside at first, it is usually a really good idea to move it inside or build walls, bridges and other fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from animals (guzzlers), {{L|thief|thieves}} and {{L|goblin}}s.

Everything that is on your map belongs to you, except:
* the items of non-fortress members (only if they are alive, when they are dead they belong to you if you claim the items),{{Verify}}
* the items that are on merchant animals{{Verify}}
* the items that are on the trade depot (they belong to the caravan until they are moved out of it)

See the {{L|Trade depot}} article for more information on how to interact with it.

==Trading Flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better {{L|Appraisal}} skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to propose the trade, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's {{L|Broker skills|skills}} and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counterproposals can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again. Note however that a low profit margin for the traders may not be desirable - it has been suggested that both export and profit numbers influence the size of next years caravan and, in the case of the dwarven caravan, immigration numbers.{{Verify}}

Goods brought by caravans do not have base quality higher than superior, but decorations on a good may be of any quality.{{Verify}}

== Trading cue colors ==

* '''Brown''' Items have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* '''White''' Items were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* '''Purple''' Items are under a no-export mandate. If they are traded away it will result in disciplinary action (see [[justice]]) against the dwarf that brought the item to the depot.{{Verify}}
* '''Green''' Items have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.
* '''Red''' Items have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items. However, a caravan from a different civilization ''may'' accept stolen goods without changing them first.{{verify}}

Note that containers (barrels, bins, etc) will be displayed according to the origin of the container, not the contents. So a foreign barrel holding locally-produced beer will display as foreign (white). Once you {{k|v}}iew the container, the locally-made contents are displayed as local (brown).

== Merchant mood ==
If your broker has Novice or better {{L|Judge of intent}} skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

An easy way to capitalize on this mood system is to perform several partial trades. First trade for a few items, offering goods twice the value of the items you ask for (eg, offer 2000☼ for 1000☼ of his stuff). This will likely make the merchant ecstatic about trading with you. Exit the trade screen, unpause briefly, and then return to trading with a vengeance. With the merchant in such a good mood, he is more likely to counteroffer than reject a trade outright.

== Seizing items ==

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy goods stolen from one of their caravans (then marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "laundered" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic {{L|siege}}.{{Verify}}

Pressing the seize button while no goods are selected will result in the merchant interpreting your seizure as a joke. This apparently does nothing to benefit or hinder your trading.{{Verify}}

As a side note, if you deconstruct your trade depot with a caravan in it, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your Dwarves. This does not mark the items as stolen, and the caravan will leave. However, ''next'' year's caravan is partly based on the profits from the previous year - so if you are relying on that race's caravans for needed items, you're hurting yourself in the long run.{{Verify}}

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid the trade depot just before they leave, causing them to leave their goods at the depot.{{Verify}}

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an {{L|ambush}} killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a {{L|siege}} instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!{{Verify}}

==Offering items==

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the {{L|civilization}} you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction, though there is not yet a clear correlation between the value of the offerings and the improvement to relations. The exact effects of offerings on trading are unknown but it is believed due to the offerings' net trade value being counted towards the traders' profit, possibly with a modifier (possibly a multiplier of more than 1 as a bonus or less than 1 to compensate for the improved relations){{Verify}}, which in turn increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the {{L|King}} usually requires offerings to be made before his arrival.{{Verify}} You cannot offer items that were not made at your fortress; the traders do not want your spare goblin harvest clothes.

'''''Note:''' There are currently no benefits to offering goods to your king; the game developers have stated that this is to be changed in future versions.'' ("''Req174, REASON FOR OFFERING, (Future): There's no point of offering goods to your own king right now.)"''

Unless you are looking for [[fun]], under no conditions should you offer or trade items which are wooden or used wood in their creation (glass, for example) to [[elves]], as this will insult the traders, and may cause them to leave or even damage relations enough to provoke a war between you and the elven civilization you traded with. They will be equally insulted by you trading back their wood-related items - their refusal to accept back their wooden items is probably a bug which will be removed in a later release, though this has not been verified. It is also worth noting that in-game the only way to acquire wood is by chopping down trees, so it is likely that the elves have developed a method of growing and acquiring wood without killing trees which will be included in later development.

== Miscellaneous Trading Advice ==

* Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game.
* Food inside the Trade Depot can go bad. Have a food stockpile nearby so you can quickly haul goods inside.
* Thieves and thieving critters tend to follow caravans. Expect assaults and intruders.
* Be careful about asking traders to bring lots of individual lightweight items (such as meat and fish) as it can result in traders taking a very long time to unload their goods. Unless the path to your depot is extremely long, though, this is unlikely to cause significant problems.{{Verify}}
* Create your trading depot inside your fort, preferably in the beginning. Place a 3-tile wide path (which must be free of obstructions such as stairways) to the entrance of the fort and line this with traps; this will help to protect the traders and keep the depot close to your supplies.
* All caravans will bring extra food (meat and edible plants) and wooden logs if the supplies of your fortress are low enough, independent of whether or not you requested them. This does not apply in the case that the weight limit is exceeded by (other) items you requested. The supply situation, as observed by traders, is based solely on the number of unforbidden items in your fortress, whether stockpiled or utilized in buildings (such as wooden axles, water wheels, windmills, or workshops); thus, it is possible to trick caravans into thinking your supplies are low by {{L|forbid}}ding all of your relevant stocks immediately prior to their arrival.  This also seems to apply to elven caravans bringing {{L|cloth}} (except that cloth that's turned into {{L|clothing}}, {{L|bag}}s or {{L|rope}} isn't counted). So if you want elven caravans to ''stop'' bringing cloth, buy up all the cloth that the first few caravans bring and stash them somewhere.
* Define your trade depot as a burrow. When traders arrive, you can add your broker or another dwarf, perhaps one you want to train in trading, to the burrow. They will head to the depot immediately, and stay there until you remove them from the burrow.

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan per year, linked to one season, which is autumn for dwarves, summer for humans, spring for elves. In rare cases, goblins will show up in winter.{{verify}} However, in the first year only a dwarven caravan will arrive, although it will tend to arrive later than mid-autumn, unlike previous versions {{verify}}. Caravans will only show up if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen), with the exception of dwarves, who always arrive unless they are extinct.{{verify}} Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating {{L|civilization}}, and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot. Caravans will embark on their journey back exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.{{Verify}}

Note that if traders or their animals are prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}} [Verified in 31.16 - Locked-in traders go insane, throw off their clothes, eventually attack a dwarf and are put down]

Also worth mention is the pathing behavior of the entire caravan. If one member of the caravan reaches a block in their chosen path (ie. a raised drawbridge that was lowered when they entered the map) the entire caravan will re-path, instead of encountering the obstacle one by one.

== Liaisons ==
{{L|Liaison}}s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. (THEY WILL SPEAK TO THOSE DWARVES! Even if they have to wait by the bed side in the hospital for months after the caravan left.) They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liaison of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

Note that if a liaison is prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}}

==== {{L|Dwarves}} ====
:''"Our fortunes rise and fall together"''

The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|autumn}}.
* carries metal bars, {{L|leather}}, weapons and armor, food and booze, and more. Dwarves alone may bring {{L|steel}} and steel goods.
* is well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the {{L|Expedition leader}}, {{L|Mayor}}, {{L|Baron}}, {{L|Count}}, or {{L|Duke}} to negotiate an import-export agreement (unless the {{L|Monarch}} is present).
* influences the number of immigrants received (if the caravan leaves intact).{{verify}}
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location, as long as the dwarven civilization is not extinct.{{verify}}
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.
* may not arrive if your civilization lacks any notable figures.

==== {{L|elf|Elves}} ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in the {{L|Calendar|spring}}.
* carries {{L|cloth}}, {{L|rope}}s, various above-ground seeds, {{L|plant}}s and their byproducts, {{L|log}}s, {{L|wood}}en goods & {{L|weapon}}s, clothing and {{L|armor}}, and may carry tame exotic {{L|creature}}s.
* is unguarded.
* does not accept some items in trade:

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include:

* {{L|Wood}}en items (including subterranean mushrooms such as {{L|tower-cap}}s)
* Items derived from wood - {{L|ash}} and {{L|charcoal}}, as well as {{L|lye}}, {{L|potash}}, and {{L|pearlash}}
* Items made from clear and crystal {{L|glass}} (due to the {{L|pearlash}} used) - green glass appears to be perfectly acceptable
* Items {{L|decoration|decorated}} with any of the above materials
* {{L|Obsidian}} shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* {{L|Soap}} (made with {{L|lye}})

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the mood of the trader to drop rapidly, causing them to refuse to trade any more that season and leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for not understanding their customs.

However, {{L|stone}} and {{L|metal}} items, even when {{L|charcoal}} is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from {{L|silk}} are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as {{L|cloth}} and {{L|thread}}. Items made of bone (totems too), horn, shell or leather are acceptable, so are meat and fish. You can also transport your goods to the {{L|trade depot}} in a wooden {{L|bin}}, as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the {{L|cage}} or {{L|trap}} is not made of {{L|wood}}.

Be especially careful with reselling decorated items from other caravans, as non-wood/glass items may have decorations of wood or clear/crystal glass. All such items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== {{L|Human}}s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|summer}}.
* carries metal bars, sand, {{L|leather}}, cloth, food and booze, ropes, waterskins, quivers, backpacks, bronze weapons and (too large) clothing and armor, cages and a few domestic animals.
* moderately guarded.

==== {{L|Goblin}}s{{Verify}} ====
A goblin caravan ''may'' arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*will arrive every season, four times per year{{verify}}
*unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

== Destruction ==
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a {{L|cave-in}} will flee as if they were attacked, but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed {{L|mule}} and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animals will only be stunned or rendered unconscious, and flee shortly after recovering from the hit.

While caravans can defend themselves, they don't like being ambushed. An encounter with unfriendly creatures resulting in the death of any merchant or pack animal will cause them to retreat and forget about trading with you for the season. Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a {{L|siege}}.

== Caravan Delay ==
If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death. It is not known for certain if this hurts diplomatic relations, but most likely it's the same as any case where the entire caravan fails to return home.{{Verify}}

If you have locked the caravan into your fortress to hold out against a siege, it's a good idea to station a squad of soldiers near the trade depot in case the merchants {{L|Insanity#Types|go berserk}}. You may also want to make the depot a restricted area to encourage civilians to go around it. Alternatively, you can design the trade depot using drawbridges, so that it can be sealed off from the rest of the fortress during a siege.

If you want the merchants to leave safely, you can build four or more tunnels to each corner of the map, connected to your fortress only by drawbridges. As long as there is no other way to enter and exit your fortress, invaders and merchants will both go towards any tunnel that you activate. You can lock the merchants into the trade depot, and then open a tunnel entrance on one side of the map to make the invaders head towards that tunnel. When they get close to it, you can close it, and then open the entrance on the other side of the map, and let the traders out of the depot. If your fortress and depot are in the middle of the map, this will give the traders quite a head-start to get away.{{Verify}}

Caravan guards cannot be starved, dehydrated, or driven to insanity if prevented from leaving, their employers and animals will however.

== Bugs ==

*No one brings wagons, even if there is a clear path to your depot. {{bug|197}}
*Wild animals cannot be traded; when a dwarf attempts to move the caged animal to the Depot, the creature is set free.Only aggressive animals?
*If your {{L|hospital}} isn't already stocked with the specified amount of thread/cloth, your dwarves will carry off as much from the caravan as they need to fill it. {{Bug|66}}
*Caravans show up very late in the season. {{Bug|1756}}
*If you order your military to kill merchants from your own civilization, your soldiers will simultaneously become members ''and'' enemies of the fortress, resulting in a civil war within your fortress. When this happens, all current members of the fortress (excluding incoming migrants) will turn on each other yet they will still be seen as normal working dwarves in the status screens.

== Exploits ==

*If you destroy the Depot while they are unloaded you will get the leaving message but they will leave before the building is completely destroyed, so they will not reclaim any of their stuff because it is not available until the building is fully deconstructed. However any animals they had caged will only become friendly, you won't actually own them.

If you wait some time (2-3 months{{verify}}), you can "claim" animals by linking a lever to the cage and opening it, the animals will be released in a tamed state. Check the 'u'nit screen before releasing them; if the creatures still show as Merchant creatures, they will wander off the map when released; if they show as Tame creatures, they will stay once released.