Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Milk of lime

2015-12-03T22:36:45Z

The Real Marauder:

{{quality}}
{{av}}

{{new in v0.42}}

'''Milk of lime''' is created from [[quicklime]] at a an [[ashery]]. It is used in the production of [[parchment|parchment sheet]]s at a [[tanner's shop]].

{{Category|Materials}}

v0.31 Talk:Magma

2012-06-26T15:35:34Z

The Real Marauder: /* Magma buildings */

==Depth bug==
There's several reports of creatures drowning or suffocating before burning to death even in 7/7 magma, is it possible that dwarves not burning in 1/7 magma is just a bug?
--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 17:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Could be. I would have added it to the talk page first, but Ip users can't even create talk pages >.> --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 18:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm aware of the reports but haven't looked into it myself yet. Add to this the reports of dwarves melting when it rains on a scorching day and it adds up to a pretty screwed up temperature system. You've got three different things that could be a factor. The components of a body have been radically overhauled, that's vastly more complex. We've got the new spatter system, also radically new, might be related, might not. And we've got the new temperatures in worldgen which are very different. I think the worldgen bit is because of a change that makes elevation influence temperature.

:It all adds up to a huge poorly understood mess for now. I wasn't going to say anything about it on the main page yet because it's still wild theory that is not well understood. But I didn't feel it was worth arguing about either, so I didn't delete the note about it on the page. I did edit it slightly just so it looked better without trying to change the content of the message. -- [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
::What I found is that all creatures will survive being fully submerged in lava for a short time, not just magma immune ones. However, the ones that aren't magma immune '''will''' be burnt before being able to leave the square (when next to a ramp). If a non-immune creature is in 7/7 magma for more than 1 turn they will generally bleed/burn to death. --[[User:DUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 22:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I confirmed this. I tapped into one of these new fangled rigidly shaped volcanos just to test this issue and verified two things. magma is pressureless as expected, and contrary to expectation dwarves do not instantly die when coming in contact with magma. My unlucky miner fled the scene quickly but was without a doubt fully immersed in 7/7 magma before doing so. He suffered no injuries.
:::Following this test I went ahead and flooded the whole fortress in magma verifying that magma can still kill dwarves, just not as efficiently as expected. The magma also left many objects fully submerged but unharmed which is also quite strange.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I had some fun with a volcano, underground caves, a reptile man tribe, my animals and at last my own dwarves. I dropped my animals down into the volcano but I was somehow disappointed by seeing a living dog "diving" in lava. He fell all the about 90 z.levels down, without even getting hurt. When he landed in the magma see far deep underground, he started to burn/bleed/die. I repeated this with my dwarves and other animals. It seems, falling THROUGH lava does not hurt only standing in it. Maybe it has some other reasons, but all my dwarves/animals reached the bottom magmasea unharmed.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:Make sure you haven't turned temperature off in d_init.txt I was having this issue too when I first started playing with magma, and realized I'd turned temperature off to try and increase FPS. Turning temp back on should fix this, and might account for why some have this problem and some don't. --[[User:Forgenvash|Forgenvash]] 10:43, 30 Dec 2010 (PST)

==Magma Sea==
There is a new line in world gen for Magma Layer YES/NO which would probably turn off the magma sea feature if desired. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Pipes and pools ==

Going by in-game terminology, there are no more magma pipes - there are only "magma pools" (which are obsidian-lined, extend up from the magma sea, and presumably refill just like 40d magma pipes) and volcanoes (which are likely just "magma pools" that extend all the way to the surface). In Adventurer mode, I encountered magma that extended all the way to the upper cavern layer (but no further), and the game reported that I had discovered a magma pool; upon jumping into it (stepping into the open space above it - stepping down into the magma left me "swimming" at the top of it unable to move at all), I plummeted straight to the magma sea ("discovering" it in the process) and slowly melted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:07, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:'''Praise the plummeters!''' I've only played with two maps - one had a volcano(?) that was visible on the main embark map, and the other had nuthin'. If we need to redefine/delete some terms, then that's what we need to do - if there are no "pipes" in game, then we stick with "pools" and never refer to pipes again.
:''(For reference to new players, in 40d "magma pipes" and "magma pools" could both be hidden and required revealing by mining - pipes would refill slowly if any magma were removed (by channeling/pumping), but pools contained a fixed amount only. These may need redefining according to the 0.31 usage.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Keep in mind that pipes and pools as seen in 40d are hidden features again. So it's hard to casually say they just don't exist. Without the finder they're difficult to locate but for now I am still assuming they do still exist. It's very possible they've changed with the new underground stuff, but it's hard to say right away. Give it time. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:51, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::: I inspected a few maps with reveal out of boredom and noticed an oddity. I found what looks like a lava pipe (the usual shapeless large semi-circular area), but it had no lava. It only extended through about 5 z-levels and never touched lava. I can also confirm that I've seen pipes (pools?) that extend down to the sea as described. I spotted this in reveal and didn't get the message for finding it so I can't say on your pipe/pool thing. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 20:06, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, the game refers to them as 'pools'. So we should go with that until we have more information. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 20:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Infinite Magma Sources ==

Is there any way to guarantee that you will get a magma pipe on embark? Making large magma systems or obsidian factories seems like it would be more difficult when you have to work with finite amounts of magma. --[[Special:Contributions/129.252.122.38|129.252.122.38]] 15:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: You're guaranteed a magma sea at embark unless you turn that off in the world gen settings. As for finding a pipe just look for an actual volcano. You can adjust the world gen settings to be rich in volcanos if you so desire. Set elevation 200:400:3600:3600 and a high number of volcanos in worldgen if that is what you want. Of course, at present a volcano has no variance of shape whatsoever, and magma behaves a bit oddly. But if that's what you want it's easy enough to get. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Magma Temperature ==

What Temperature Is Magma In This Version? I Suspect It Is 12,000° Urist But Need Confirmation Before Editing The Article. Should This Go Into Magma Properties Or The Top Of The Article? --[[Special:Contributions/80.137.113.241|80.137.113.241]] 15:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
: Possibly, But as you say, it's not confirmed yet. And there's been some confusion on the subject over in the bug tracker. Apparently the list of magma-safe materials has undergone some pretty dramatic changes, and brought in a bug or two to confuse things. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::Magma's temperature is still 12000, as verified using dfprobe or dtil (with a sufficiently updated memory.ini). Also, Capitalizing Every Single Word You Type Makes You Look Rather Peculiar. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Thank you, I was waiting on confirmation before adding a note about temperature here since I saw there was some confusion on the subject. I updated it now. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 21:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

== Magma buildings ==
Does anybody have any idea what how the game decides when 'magma' has been discovered? I am 'playing' with magma spawning utilities and i cannae get ma magma smelters! [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 20:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:As soon as you discover the magma sea, or a magma pool. If you embark on a volcano you are allowed to build them immediately. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 00:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:If you don't reveal the magma during gameplay, then you can't. It's the act of digging it up during the game that allows you use of the buildings. That, and what Tarran said, might help. Map reveal utilities are generally broken in this respect.

== Volcano eruption ==
I just settled up on island in the middle of the sea with a visible volcano mountain, in a scorching climate. A few minutes after beginning to build my fortress it started raining. When the rain was about to stop I see a huge red thing, LAVA EVERYWHERE! The volcano seems to have erupted and lava is burning down the mountain and I expect my newly construct fortress to be drowned soon. I don't know if the rain is the cause of this lava flooding or if it is just an eruption. It may just have been a coincidence. Or the water may have been so hot, due to the scorching climate and changed into lava. Lava flood can be a logical explantation to the formation of the island. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2184-lavaeverywherevolcanoeruption Here is a video] – --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
:Rain started to fall again... and it seem that is it the source of this magma overflow. Tiles are filled up to seven one level upper the volcano. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2185-lavanightmare Here is a video again.] – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
::It would be rather nasty if the "magma flow" tiles at the bottom of the magma sea were behaving the same as murky pools and allowing rainwater to accumulate (as magma)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::It don't seem to be behave the same because I have never seen a murky pool overflow. There it seem that magma is erupting from the upper level from what I have identified, when thinking about how to build my fortress, as the "top" of the volcano. Since the first flood there has been magma on that level. After taking a better look now that my fortress should be safe, the rain is no responsible for the phenomenon. Lava comes out of the volcano even when it is not raining. Now what I would like to know is why is magma flooding out. Any suggestions? – --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
::::In that case, the bug is probably that the "magma pool" (read: volcano) is refilling past the top - if it's not already in the bug tracker, it might be wise to add it (and upload a savegame so others can reproduce it). Also, please sign your comments (by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::But is that really a bug? I mean, there are continuous lava flooding volcano in the real world. --[[Special:Contributions/90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]] 21:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)ToWT
::::::Maybe the Rain is forming obsidian that is dropping to the bottom of the magma sea and causing magma to displace out of the volcano --[[User:Ghosteh|Ghosteh]] 12:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If obsidian forms and collapses (from rain) there should be warning messages about it. Also collapsing obsidian will not typically displace anything, it will instead hit the floor and shatter back into raw ore which doesn't displace fluids.--[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::::It's what happens when something causes the volcano to think that the layer above the magma surface is part of the pipe causing it to try and refill to that level, sometimes a site gens such that the top layer of the volcano gets eroded causing the 'pipe' area to extend beyond ground level.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 14:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Magma mist ==
Can someone find an appropriate place for a link to the magma mist article? --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 15:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Not Scrambling to Safety ==
My miners are consistently dying when they break into magma. Instead of "scrambling to safety unless submerged in 7/7", the poor fellas are instantly bleeding and torn up. They then proceed to either stay in one place and bleed out, or hobble away a square or two and bleed out... in 1/7 magma. [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 22:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:You can make a row of upstairs at the inlet of the magma channel, (5 upstairs should be enough). I've always use this method and yet to see any accident. --[[Special:Contributions/124.120.137.156|124.120.137.156]] 14:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Magma pressure? ==

In a previous embark in a previous worldgen (.12), I had dug down to the magma sea and channeled into it to prepare to pump magma. Every so often, the tile above the channel would fill with 3-4/7 magma, floading the area around it with 1/7. This wasn't at the top of the sea, and there was magma at the level of and levels above where I was going to build my pump right nearby. No magma creatures were nearby. Magma pressure, a bug with the boundaries of the magam sea, or something else? This would only happen every several game days or so. [[Special:Contributions/208.66.38.13|208.66.38.13]] 17:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

:I'm getting a "gusher" exactly like this right now. I'm running 0.31.21. (Oh look, my mason assigned to walling it off stood on the wrong side and just… wait, ''bled'' to death? What?) [[User:Eggdropsoap|Eggdropsoap]] 00:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
::It sounds like you've tapped into a magma pool - just like the magma pipes in 40d, they refill by bubbling magma upward. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:58, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== No magma/map diggable to bottom? ==

I'm running v. .31.16, and I've dug all the way to the bottom of my map without hitting magma (or SMR, or HFS for that matter). Can't scroll down from -23, or designate channels or down stairs. <s>I'm digging to all corners to verify whether other layers/biomes also lack magma</s> Actually, it turns out that the bottom layer of another biome has semi-molten rock as normal. Has anyone else on .16 gotten a map where part of it is diggable all the way to the bottom layer?

Strangely, z-levels above the terrain behave like they do in the [[Adamantine|Great Adamantine Space Elevator]] (but without the gigantic blue-green spike, sorry! ;-) - while I can't scroll down below z-level -23, I can scroll as high above the terrain as I want to (at least as far as >500 levels above terrain). Anyone else getting this in .16?

World-gen and embark was done in .31.16 on linux, (although currently the data dir is running on a PC); world_gen.txt is unchanged from .16 distro. Can't remember the exact choices taken in the new .16 world-gen menu, but nothing too weird there. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 06:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Have you ever dig down, trying to get to warm core and failed to get it right away? ==

This has NOT been mentioned in the main article and created some confusion in my head.. so:
While digging down for energy source and ''missing'' actual magma pool/sea/pipe/vent/whatever you might encounter two things - '''warm''' stones and '''semi-molten rock''' aside of usual minerals, this is important because if a tile is marked as warm it is bordering ''surface'' of magma and if it is semi-molten - it is next to magma ''below'' the surface. That basically means that if you gt to molten - you are to deep and should retrace z-layers back to find the top of magma body.
[[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 21:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
: Not true. '''Warm''' stones border magma. It can be in any direction, including up and down, north, south, east, and west, and the diagonals on the horizontal plane. '''Semi-molten rock''' forms a layer under the magma sea and above [[hell]]. So while finding semi-molten rock does mean the magma sea is above you, finding warm stone doesn't mean you've found the top of the magma sea. Just that there's magma on the other side of that wall. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 00:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Not really sure how to piece it together then (bugs perhaps?)... In my case I: a) found no magma between molten rocks and found semi-molten rocks on different z-levels b) found warm stones next (in all possible 26 directions) to magma tiles (i wasn't very clear I guess in definition of "bordering surface of") [[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 18:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== Lava not turning to obsidian ==
I found what seems to be a weird glitch. I arranged a collapse to control a lake that happened to be directly above a layer of magma. I expected the collapse to simply break through the floor and turn two tiles into obsidian. Instead, the two tiles completely refused to cool into obsidian and instead vaporized two entire layers worth of water. I'm wondering if this is because of my collapse, or if it is maybe a property of semi-molten rock which is also present here just below the magma. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 10:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

== Reactors ==

For some reason magma won't turn water wheels made of nether-cap, even though it should have both flow and be not on fire. Is this just one of the different properties that magma has to water, or is this something specific?

==Magma flow?==
Could somebody explain what tiles marked "Magma Flow" are, and why they refuse to turn into obsidian? EDIT: Thanks! :)
:A "magma flow" is the upper surface of [[semi-molten rock]]. They actually behave exactly the same as the "magma flow" tiles at the bottom of magma pipes back in 40d - they behave like floors to creatures and liquids, but they behave like chasms to items and cave-ins. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:30, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

v0.34 Talk:Minecart

2012-05-22T01:23:17Z

The Real Marauder: /* Minecart Tricks */

== References ==
Check this list before removing any content. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 00:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
* adventurer can take ride in minecart [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=51245.msg3285544#msg3285544]
* animals ignore traffic designations [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3281823#msg3281823]
* dwarf drops baby when boarding cart [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3287845#msg3287845]
* floors remove engraved tracks [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3283948#msg3283948]
* fluids are heavy and can kill momentum [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3286633#msg3286633]
* guided minecarts ignore rollers [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3286235#msg3286235]
* items falling out can hurt dwarves [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284958#msg3284958]
* magma-filled cart doesn't harm rider [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3287332#msg3287332]
* minecarts can be stolen [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3289070#msg3289070]
* minecarts moving fast enough can skip over water [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3285528#msg3285528]
* minecarts have huge capacities [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284519#msg3284519][http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284742#msg3284742]
* rollers don't work if frozen [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284745#msg3284745]
* rollers use two power per tile at highest speed [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3282712#msg3282712]
* skipping does not depend on weight [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3285968#msg3285968]

== Minecart Tricks ==
Has anyone considered compiling a list of unusual things you can do with minecarts, like dwarven rollercoasters or traps?

Sure. Here are a few examples:

The Stupid Dwarf Trick using a perfectly agile soldier to create metal could be done using a cart moving back and forth on rollers.

A clock generator using a pressure plate and a minecart can be made with on-ticks at easily adjusted intervals. Simply put a roller at either end, or, even more simply, make a loop track with a pressure plate in the middle and adjacent rollers pushing outwards. While the rollers are powered, the minecart will continue to roll back and forth on the tracks and trigger the pressure plate again and again.

Dwarves can be flung across impassable chasms using carts; this is similar to the H.E.L.P.

Squad cars: Have a powered system to move your military quickly to the front entrance of your fortress. Give all your military hauling jobs, and have a series of carts hidden behind a bridge; the lever closes them in and opens the cars, then the squad moves at extremely high speeds to wherever the track takes them. This is horribly impractical, but very dwarvenly. Note that full speed rollers move carts about a tile every two ticks, which is much faster than most dwarves. It's an insane amount of work to get it to work, but it might be worth it? [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 01:23, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

v0.34:Slade

2012-04-04T03:37:18Z

The Real Marauder: Slight edit.

{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{Spoiler}}

{{stonelookup/0|wiki=no}}

'''Slade''' is the stone that makes up the surrounding layers of [[eerie cavern]]s. After dwarves dig deep enough down into [[adamantine]] veins, large, demonic caverns made of slade will open up and spew forth demons. [[Curious structure]]s are also made entirely of slade.

Slade is '''very''', '''''very''''' heavy - according to the density specified in the raws (200 grams per cubic centimeter), a single half-meter diameter boulder weighs around '''14 metric tons'''; by comparison, an equivalent volume of freshly mined [[native platinum|platinum nuggets]] weighs around only 1.5 metric tons (but can somehow still be picked up by a dwarf) - making slade around ''9.348 times as dense as platinum'', and thus the heaviest material in the game.

In Fortress Mode, it is not possible to mine through slade walls (although a bug allows channeling through floors from above, it does not actually remove the wall underneath it), and it cannot be imported, therefore the material is completely unusable in the game itself. It is likely usable like any other stone when mined.

It is possible to use weapons made out of this extremely dense material in Arena mode - tests show that weapons and armor made out of this superdense rock are at least comparable to if not stronger than even Adamantine.

In worlds generated in version 0.31.12 and earlier, slade was incorrectly classified as both a stone and a metal, permitting [[noble]]s which liked slade to mandate the production of slade items, often leading to [[unfortunate accident]]s.

It may be interesting to note that our friends at Wikipedia also believe [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slade]Slade to be a hard rock and a heavy metal.

{{gamedata}}
{{stones}}

v0.34:Slade

2012-04-04T03:36:06Z

The Real Marauder: Link to Wikipedia (possible spoiler?)

v0.31:Bolt

2012-04-02T20:06:57Z

The Real Marauder: /* Masterwork Bolts */

{{quality|Fine|11:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)}}{{buggy}}{{av}}

[[Ammunition]] for [[crossbow]]s. Can be made from [[wood]], [[bone]], or weapon-grade [[metal]]s.

Wooden and metal bolts produce a [[stack]] of 25 per [[log]] or [[bar]].

Making bone bolts will take only one bone away from a stack and turn it into 5 bolts.

Wooden and bone bolts are made in a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]. Metal bolts are forged at a [[Metalsmith's forge]] or [[Magma forge]].

Wooden bolts use the Woodcrafting skill to make. Bone bolts require Bonecrafting and metal bolts require Weaponsmithing (not Metalcrafting).
[[Quiver]]s are always required for bolts to be equipped.

When fired, Bolts have a chance of shattering on impact or bouncing off and being able to be reclaimed- However, when on the ground they are forbidden.

Tests show that where even masterwork wooden bolts bounce harmlessly off copper armor, iron bolts pierce without any issue. Bone bolts are significantly better than wood, but metal bolts are still recommended for military use.

==Masterwork Bolts==
As with other items, high-skill dwarves can make masterwork-[[Item quality|quality]] bolts. While they don't care if the bolts are fired and shatter on impact, they do get upset if a bolt gets carried off - say by a retreating enemy with the bolt stuck in him. Unfortunately, dwarves also get upset if you melt down individual masterwork bolts, which are otherwise nearly useless.

==Bugs==
Tests show that bone and wooden bolts are effective against most{{verify}} unarmored targets, like wildlife, but for various reasons are quite useless against some other creatures and armored targets.

The same goes for some metal bolts (silver, copper) with variations depending on the precise metal.{{verify}}

Bone bolts are not advisable for weapon traps as only a stack of 5 will be stored per crossbow, making frequent restocking necessary.

It is largely unclear what of the above constitutes a bug and what is intended behaviour.

*If squad is assigned multiple ammo types, dwarves with "individual choice ranged" carry wrong ammo{{bug|1374}}.

{{gamedata|[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:50]
[ATTACK:EDGE:100:2000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
}}

v0.31 Talk:Magma piston

2012-04-02T05:33:31Z

The Real Marauder:

So, if I understood this correcty:
If i have only 1 layer magma reservoir and i want to get the magma up to the surface i have to make the catchment 9x9 and the piston 7x7 fields big to have at least 4/7magma afterwards? [[User:Ashameron|Ashameron]] 20:34, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the basic idea of a magma piston might work in real life. Dropping a sufficiently large and heavy object into a pool will displace the liquid in it. If there is a small hole in the piston, the liquid would be forced up the hole, leaving most of it much further up the piston than it was previously. Of course, this may require a very, very tall piston depending on the amount of liquid being replaced and the distance the liquid needs to travel due to how buoyancy works in real life. If a seal can be made between the edges of the object and the edges of the construction the piston resides in, and the hole in the piston is relatively small, much of the liquid might end up in a reservoir partway or even at the top of the piston.

Revision: Ashameron, if you want to make 4/7 magma, put your cache for the magma off to the side, and let magma flow off the top of the piston into that; it doesn't matter how big your piston is. Your piston will move its cross-sectional area in magma, up to a depth of 7. Up above, you'll be able to pour almost 6/7 of that off into something one z-level below the top of the piston, which means you could get probably about 5/7 to flow off, so let's say 35 units of 7-high magma, into a tube you could use for smelters. [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 05:33, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Magma piston

2012-04-02T04:03:44Z

The Real Marauder:

So, if I understood this correcty:
If i have only 1 layer magma reservoir and i want to get the magma up to the surface i have to make the catchment 9x9 and the piston 7x7 fields big to have at least 4/7magma afterwards? [[User:Ashameron|Ashameron]] 20:34, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the basic idea of a magma piston might work in real life. Dropping a sufficiently large and heavy object into a pool will displace the liquid in it. If there is a small hole in the piston, the liquid would be forced up the hole, leaving most of it much further up the piston than it was perviously. Of course, this may require a very, very tall piston depending on the amount of liquid being replaced and the distance the liquid needs to travel due to how boyancy works in real life. If a seal can be made between the edges of the object and the edges of the construction the piston resides in, and the hole in the piston is relatively small, much of the liquid might end up in a resevior partway or even at the top of the piston.

I agree with this; essentially, the abuse lies in that a falling object happens to fit perfectly in the hole, which forces liquid up the piston; other than that, a falling object would easily force a liquid through a tube. [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 03:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Ashameron, this might be a little late in coming, but if you're trying to move magma up 100 z-levels, you need a piston that's 10x10 (or 1x100); the displaced magma has to completely fill the pipe. [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 04:03, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Magma piston

2012-04-02T03:41:26Z

The Real Marauder:

So, if I understood this correcty:
If i have only 1 layer magma reservoir and i want to get the magma up to the surface i have to make the catchment 9x9 and the piston 7x7 fields big to have at least 4/7magma afterwards? [[User:Ashameron|Ashameron]] 20:34, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the basic idea of a magma piston might work in real life. Dropping a sufficiently large and heavy object into a pool will displace the liquid in it. If there is a small hole in the piston, the liquid would be forced up the hole, leaving most of it much further up the piston than it was perviously. Of course, this may require a very, very tall piston depending on the amount of liquid being replaced and the distance the liquid needs to travel due to how boyancy works in real life. If a seal can be made between the edges of the object and the edges of the construction the piston resides in, and the hole in the piston is relatively small, much of the liquid might end up in a resevior partway or even at the top of the piston.

I agree with this; essentially, the abuse lies in that a falling object happens to fit perfectly in the hole, which forces liquid up the piston; other than that, a falling object would easily force a liquid through a tube. [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 03:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

v0.34 Talk:Melt item

2012-03-27T17:09:44Z

The Real Marauder: Created page with "These numbers are wildly inaccurate - I just saw an iron breastplate for 150, making that an item value of 15 and a per-bar cost of 17; weapons cost significantly more than indic..."

These numbers are wildly inaccurate - I just saw an iron breastplate for 150, making that an item value of 15 and a per-bar cost of 17; weapons cost significantly more than indicated. Can I get confirmation on those? [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 17:09, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

v0.34:Melt item

2012-03-27T16:45:16Z

The Real Marauder: Anvil base value is 10, not 100, making the cost per bar per base value 10 per bar.

{{quality|Exceptional|18:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)}}{{av}}
You can '''melt''' items at a [[smelter]], using the [[furnace operator]] labor, to recover some of the [[metal]] they were made of. [[Decoration]]s in a different metal are not recovered or considered; the metal recovered is the specific metal that basic item was listed as being made from. The % return is predictable and consistent for each item type, and ranges from 10%-60%, depending on the item. Higher skill levels in furnace operator speed up the process, but have no effect on the % return.

Recovered metal is measured in 1/10th's, and 1/10ths of bars of each metal are saved at the smelter where the item was melted. Fractional bars are not "shared" between smelters, nor do they exist as usable objects as is. When 10/10ths of a type of metal are accumulated at the same smelter, 1 bar of that metal is produced. If the smelter is torn down or destroyed, all fractions are lost.

:''Example:'' If two items of the same metal worth .4 bars each are melted at the same smelter, that smelter has .8 bars worth waiting in it.
:If a similar item of a ''different'' metal is then melted there, that smelter would have .8 bars of the first metal and .4 bars of the second.
:If a similar item of the first metal is then melted at a ''different'' smelter, that smelter will have .4 of that metal, and have no connection to the fractions in the first smelter.
:If (finally!), a 3rd, similar item of the first metal is melted at the first smelter, adding another 4/10ths, and giving a total of 12/10ths of that type of metal, 1 bar of that metal is produced, and 2/10th's are waiting (plus the 4/10 of the second metal, also waiting).

So, it's recommended that you designate one smelter as your "melting" smelter (or one/metal type), to guarantee that fractions will add up effectively.

==Designating items to melt==
You can designate metal items for melting from any interface that allows you to view the object's description screen, such as from the [[Stocks]] page or the Loo{{k|k}} interface.

To bring up a individual object description screen when the object is:
:* On the '''ground''': Type {{k|k}}, scroll to the object, select it from the list, and type {{k|Enter}}.
:* In a '''workshop''': Type {{k|t}}, highlight the workshop, select the object from the list, and type {{k|Enter}}.
:* '''Held''' by a dwarf: Type {{k|v}}, highlight the dwarf, type {{k|i}} to show his inventory, select the object from the list, and type {{k|Enter}}.
:* Inside another object: Display the container's object description screen, navigate to the specific object you wish to see, and type {{k|Enter}}.
:* In the '''stocks''' menu: Type {{k|z}}, hit right-direction a few times to select "stocks" and press return. Scroll to the type of object you wish to melt, type {{k|Tab}} to show individual items (You have to have an exact number or this won't work. See [[Bookkeeper]] for how to get this), scroll to the specific object, and type {{k|v}} to view.

To designate the item, simply type {{k|m}} to mark the object for melting. If the item is designated for melting and [[forbidden]] then the item will '''not''' be melted.

However, this only marks which items you want to be melted - you still have to place the job-order in a smelter...

==Melting the items==
Items designated to be melted will be left alone until you queue a "Melt a metal object" job {{k|o}} at a [[Smelter]]. Melting down an object requires the [[Furnace operator]] labor (and consumes a unit of [[fuel]] for a non-magma smelter).

The job gives the same experience to the [[furnace operator]] skill regardless of % yield of the item melted.

==Yield==
For every unit of [[material size]] an item has, 1/10th of a bar of that item's metal type will be recovered. These fractional bars are "stored" at the specific smelter where the item was melted; when a full bar's worth of one type of metal has been melted, one bar will be produced. Therefore, you should do all your melting at one smelter, at least for each different type of metal or [[alloy]] melted.

Melting objects nets you fewer bars of metal than were required to make them, although for some objects this loss is much greater than for others. Some items are available cheap from traders, or are otherwise refuse, so melting is a distinct option. An entire suit of chain armor, including shield, consumes 7 bars to make - melted (and with ''high'' boots) it yields only 2.1.

====Melting armor & weapons====

Fortresses will often accumulate armor and/or weapons that they don't need, either from [[invader]]s, from [[caravan]]s ''(with or without [[trade|trading]] for them, ahem)'', or from unsuccessful, low-skilled early efforts at forging your own.

Rather than let these gather dust or [[trade]] them away, some players choose to recycle them back into iron or steel (or bronze or copper, etc) bars.

::{|cellpadding="2" border="1" class="sortable"
! Armor Item melted!! Percent Return !! Absolute Return (in bars)
|-
| [[Armor#Headgear|cap]] || 10% || .1
|-
| [[Armor#Headgear|helm]] || 20% || .2
|-
| [[Armor#Upper Body|chain armor]] || 30% || .6*
|-
| [[Armor#Upper Body|plate armor]] || 30% || .9*
|-
| [[Armor#Hands|gauntlet]] || 20% || .2
|-
| [[Armor#Lower Body|leggings]] || 50% || .5
|-
| [[Armor#Lower Body|greaves]] || 30% || .6*
|-
| [[Armor#Foot Protection|high boot]] || 20% || .2
|-
| [[Armor#Foot Protection|low boot]] || 10% || .1
|-
| [[Armor#Shield|shield]] || 40% || .4
|-
| [[Armor#Shield|buckler]] || 20% || .2
|-
|}
:''(* Note that these items take more than 1 bar to make initially.)''
::{|cellpadding="2" border="1" class="sortable"
! Weapon melted!! Return (in bars)
|-
| large dagger, whip || .1
|-
| blowgun, scourge || .2
|-
| bow, crossbow, mace, scimitar, short sword, spear, war hammer || .3
|-
| battle axe, flail, longsword, pick, pike || .4
|-
| great axe, halberd, two-handed sword || .5
|-
| stack of # arrows, bolts || # /100, rounded up*
|-
|}
:''(* Round up to nearest 1/10th. A stack of 1-10 bolts or arrows produces .1 bars, 11-20 produces .2, 21-30 = .3, and 31+ = .4. A weaponsmith can produce a stack of 25 metal bolts, which produces 0.3 bars. You could "create" metal this way, if you could reliably collect individual metal bolts after they were shot (and unbroken).)''

Due to the low return, many players opt to install weapons into [[weapon trap]]s instead, especially if the weapon is of any [[quality]].''

==== Training metalsmith skills / Maximizing return ====
It can consume many, many bars of metal to train the various [[metalsmith]]ing [[skill]]s up to high levels*. If you are short on metal, producing items, melting them and re-producing them may be necessary. If you want to retain as much metal as possible from this process, some items are better to produce and re-melt than others. The skill to be trained in the chart below is trained at a forge; melting items at a smelter only raises the [[Furnace operator]] skill. When using a produce/melt loop to train up a skill for a minimum metal loss, the following items work best:

:''(* Upwards of 1,000 bars to train from unskilled to Legendary+5, the highest skill level.)

:::{|cellpadding="2" border="1" class="sortable"
! Skill to be Trained!! Best Percent Return !! Recommended Item(s) Melted
|-

| [[weaponsmith]] || 50%1 || [[Trap component|enormous corkscrew]]s, [[Trap component|giant axe blade]]s, [[Trap component|menacing spike]]s
|-

| [[armorsmith]] || 50% ||[[Armor|leggings]]
|-

| [[metal crafter]] || 60% (2/10 each)2 || [[goblet]]
|-

| [[metal crafter]] || 50% || [[chain]]
|-

| [[metalsmith]] || 100% || [[Road|Metal buildings]] {{bug|4899}} (Requires no melt job)
|-
|}

:Notes:
::1) Some [[other weapon]]s have a better return/weapon, but cannot be manufactured by dwarves, negating their value for training purposes.
::2) Goblets are produced in threes, and have an individual item size of 2; 2/10 x 3 = 60% recovery/bar.

===== Alternatives =====
One alternative to the production/melting process is to train many dwarves up to novice in the skill you need by lowering the maximum skill level in the workshop profiles to dabbling. Once that is done wait for a [[Strange mood]]. The artifact produced will bump the lucky dwarf up to legendary +1, potentially saving you lots of time and resources. You will still need to melt down the low quality items produced by the dabbling masses. This works for other skills as well.

The downsides of this is that it may take very long depending on the number of dwarves, number of available workshops as well as the random onset of strange moods.

===Buying items to melt===
[[Merchant]]s will often offer metal items, metals that you might want but can't find or produce. This chart shows the [[Value#Items_with_both_material_and_quality|base value]] of a given item, without [[Value#Material_multipliers|material multiplier]], and then a "cost" relative to its yield, so you know what the "best buys" are if you want (or are forced) to go down this road.

For instance, a [[cap]] has a base value of 10*, and produces .1 bars when melted. That means you would need to buy 10 caps to make 1 bar, and so a cap that has a "relative cost" of 100, since it costs 100* (10 caps at value 10*) to produce 1 bar. ''(And it turns out, that's a pretty poor return on investment!)''

:<nowiki>*</nowiki> ''The Base Value is then multiplied by the Material Multiplier (how valuable the material is), but the ''relative'' cost/yield of each item remains constant. ''

:''In practice, these values are then all multiplied by the material, but all are multiplied equally for any one metal. For example, a helmet has a Base Value of 15, before material multipliers, and greaves 30, twice that of a helmet. So a [[copper]] (MM x2) helmet would have a base value of 30 and copper greaves would have 60, while a [[steel]] (MM x30) helmet would have a base value of 450 and steel greaves 900 - so both would have the same ''relative'' value compared to any other item of the same metal - more than a low boot, and less than a weapon.''

Note also that [[quality]] and [[decorate]]d items can greatly increase the relative cost.

::{|cellpadding="2" border="1" class="sortable"
! Item Bought !! Base Value !! Absolute Return !! Relative Cost/Bar1
|-
| [[cap]] || 10 || .1 || 100
|-
| [[helm]] || 15 || .2 || 75
|-
| chain armor || 60 || .6 || 100
|-
| plate armor || 100 || .9 || 111
|-
| [[gauntlets|gauntlet]] || 15 || .2 || 75
|-
| [[leggings]] || 15 || .5 || 30
|-
| [[greaves]] || 30 || .6 || 50
|-
| high [[boot]] || 15 || .2 || 75
|-
| low [[boot]] || 15 || .1 || 150
|-
| [[shield]] || 15 || .4 || 37.5
|-
| [[buckler]] || 10 || .2 || 50
|-
| bow, crossbow, mace, scimitar, short sword, spear, war hammer || 10 || .3 || 33.3
|-
| battle axe, flail, longsword, pick, pike || 10 || .4 || 25
|-
| great axe, halberd, two-handed sword [[trap weapon]]s || 10 || .5 || 20
|-
| stack of 25 bolts, arrows || 25 || .3 || 83.3
|-
| [[cage]]2 || 10 || 1.0 || 10
|-
| [[anvil]]3 || 10 || 1.0 || 10
|-
| [[craft]]s || || || (poor, tbd)
|-
|}

::Notes:
:::1) You're ''buying'', so you want a ''low'' cost/bar.
:::2) Cages are offered in only [[copper]], [[lead]], [[nickel]], [[tin]], or [[zinc]]. All [[furniture]] returns 1 bar for each item melted, but only cages are offered for trade.
:::3) Anvils are offered in only [[iron]] or [[steel]].

Your top "best buys" for melting objects down for the metal are '''cages''', '''weapons''', and '''leggings''', in roughly that order, followed by '''helms''' and '''shields''', and then on up from there. Stay away from chain and plate armours, and anvils, unless you have trade items to burn. What is "too expensive" is up to you and how badly you need that metal, and how much how fast.

{{Category|Jobs}}
{{Category|Items}}

v0.34 Talk:Law-giver

2012-03-27T16:16:00Z

The Real Marauder: Created page with "I think this page should #REDIRECT cv:Diplomat ~~~~"

I think this page should #REDIRECT [[cv:Diplomat]] [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 16:16, 27 March 2012 (UTC)