Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Food

2008-08-05T04:54:21Z

Sythera: Question about the Z screen

== Rate of consumption ==

Does anyone know the rate at which dwarf eats food? --[[User:Okita|Okita]] 01:18, 6 June 2008 (EST)

:Someone calculated it way back in the 2D days. IIRC, they came up with 6 food and 18 drink per dwarf per year, but I don't think that was very accurate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Starvation ==

Once my [[butcher]] starts ''hunting for small creatures'' - how do I get him to actually slaughter an animal so everyone can eat?
Or do I need to make someone else a butcher so my butcher can have a snack?

Why does this shite always happen when the merchant turns up?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::This is beacause your dwarves are very hungry and start looking for vermin to eat. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 02:48, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

== Hunger bug ==

First of all, i'm a new user, so if this needs putting somewhere else or whatever, just send me an e-mail or something. Anyway, I have a bug that keeps crippling my fortress. Sometime halfway through the year, my dwarfs (dwarves? i dunno :S) stop eating. completely. they then get hungry, tantrums kick off, and chaos ensues. any tips?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 05:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Do you have food? If so, what KIND of food? They can't eat raw dead things, and they can't even eat butchered dead things. They also can't eat most kinds of uncooked fish. Also, did you make a food stockpile? Food left outside of a food stockpile will mass rot before long. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:20, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Yep, I have plenty of edible food ( non-rotten, stockpiled, etc). The food is definetly edible, but the dwarfs, after a while, jsut lose the will to eat! they still keep drinking, though ;)--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Meals ==

Do Roasts fill up dwarves more than biscuits? It seems logical that they would but I'm not sure. Also, do roasts take longer to eat? --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 00:20, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, no. And it's not logical. Suppose you take 2 units of meat to make two bisquits, or four units of meat to make four roasts. Why would roasts be any larger?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Oh yeah... Well, then what's the advantage of making biscuits over roasts? Am I missing something?--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 04:39, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::: None. With roast you get bigger meal stacks that are more likely to not fit in barrels - good cos you save barrels. You have a higher chance per meal that you please the preference of a dwarf. You have half the number of items - less clutter. Some people claim that the cook collects more experience from easy meals since he cooks more, but i cant confirm. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:41, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::::A cook gets 30xp per meal, not depending on the size. That's been on the wiki since late 2006.
::::It might've not been written into the new wiki yet, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:: let's see - if you combine [info on DF] with [2006] what do you get? ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ok, thanks for clearing it up.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 16:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meal Value ==

I was just wondering if anyone has done any research into how the value of prepared meals is calculated. I was somewhat curious because in my current fort I happened to notice that two stacks of masterpiece roasts were created of value 544☼ and 164☼, neither of which values is divisible by 12 (the masterpiece value modifier). In the case of both roasts, all the ingredients were plump helmet spawns. Also, how is overall meal quality decided? I had previously assumed that it was the highest quality out of the individual ingredient qualities, but in the case of the 544☼ meal all four ingredients were superiorly minced. I know that having a high quality ingredient in amongst low quality ingredients does bump up the overall quality, as with the 164☼ meal, which was 1 masterfully minced and 3 finely minced ingredients. Also, another oddity that I've just noticed: I got another "masterpiece" message, and took a look. "☼Plump helmet spawn roast [4]☼ This is a stack of 4 superiorly prepared Plump helmet spawn roast." I didn't see what the other two said, so perhaps the value is based off the description overall quality rather than the item name symbol quality?--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 00:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:Ok, so I managed to answer my own question by looking up the [[Item value]] page. Never mind then.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Question about the Z screen ==

When I press "z", and go into the menu, it tells me my food stores are well over 500. However, I am very low on meat, fish, and plants. The only category which has a high number is "other". What type of food is considered "other"? Is it cooked/prepared food? Any help would be great.

40d Talk:Trap

2008-08-04T03:21:37Z

Sythera: Cage Trap Question

== Cage traps clarification ==

I think I know the answer, but are ANY sort of cages suitable for trapping any kind of invading monster (except those that evade traps altogether, such as kobalds). The page mentions a glass trap catching a colossus, but will that also apply to a rickety wooden trap? I haven't produced any glass. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. I've had a bronze colossus trapped in an Ashen Cage before. I don't think creatures care what you trap them in.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== cage traps for food ==
Couldn't one generate a mild supplementary food source by putting cage traps out on the map at random? Or create rows of them to catch aggressive creatures that are chasing down a fleeing dwarf. The ability to place them on the surface has some interesting possibilities. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 04:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)

: You can really do this with any kind of trap now - I built a 1 tile wide stair/corridor up an exposed cliff face, and as I was concerned about goblins and the like I stonefall-trapped it. Ever since then some of the local wildlife has used it to get up and down the 5 z-level cliff, with predictable and hilarious results. The goats just die, but the marmots are hurled off the cliff face to splatter on the ground below. It's a nice easy meat/leather/fat source, as well as being entertaining "Dwarfy McDwarf cancels reload stone trap - interrupted by (flying) hoary marmot" [[User:Acama|Acama]] 19:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==berserk dwarves==
Will berserk dwarves set off pressure plates? Toady mentioned he was going to stop that from happening [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On a possibly related note, pets CAN set off traps. Although in my experience the pet has to be falling unconscious to do so. [[User:Anonymousphrase|Anonymousphrase]] 22:43, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

[[image:Pet_setting_off_trap.png]]

It may also be the case that you can also get pets killed by a trap if they're in the square when a hostile sets off the trap. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 12:42, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

==flooding a spiked pit==
Will flooding a spiked pit break or cancel the spike trap? I'd test this, but I don't have the channel dug in yet. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:confirmed that flooding doesn't affect spear/spike traps. [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 17:52, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure the "corpse stuck in trap" chance is 50%, according to Toady either on IRC or some forgotten forum post a few months back. I really can't remember for sure. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:31, 10 November 2007 (EST)

==cage traps/ fire imps==
I've secured the entries oy my magma furnaces with cage traps, but it seems that the fire imps just walk through.
Just as the Giant moles did. How so? --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
:supposedly there is a bug that causes any creatures on the map when it is generated to count as residents, and thus know where your traps are and not trigger them. I've never run into the problem myself, but I've never specifically tested for it so I can't really say for sure if it still exists (or ever did). --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 07:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:I had read about this and tried it out with a trapped coridoor next to my magma vent - an imp I tempted out walked right through 4 cage traps and 4 stonefall traps without triggering them. Seems like indigenous life is currently trap-immune. Most magma creatures can be dealt with by a few marksdwarves though, so you're only in serious trouble if you have a herd of skeletal hippos on your map on embark.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 15:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::There's always the menacing spike + lever combo. And pits. [[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 16:08, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've killed fire imps and magmamen with stone fall traps --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:20, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

==Trolls and Cages==
I'm planning on making the only passage to my fortress filled with cage traps, but I'm not sure if dwarves going out and migrants and traders coming in will be affected by them. Does anyone know? Also, do trolls smash goblin cages? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Only hostile units will trigger traps. Trolls only smash buildings and after a goblin is captured the cage is not built. So the answer to your second question is no. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 21:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Make sure to forbid the traps when the siege starts. Otherwise your dwarves will rush out to reload them and store all the cages. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:53, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Thieves and trap avoidance==
Is it possible that Kobold thieves/Goblin master thieves can also trigger traps? I think I killed one and caged another master thief in the past. Maybe the quality of the mechanism is important here? --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:goblin thieves, both regular and master, have always triggered traps -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:18, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

::So why does the article then say "Sneaking enemies do not trigger traps"? Goblin master thieves seem very sneaky to me. --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:33 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:::once goblin thieves are revealed they are captured fine. even revealed kobolds dont trigger. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: At least "normal" goblin thieves are scewered fine without being detected, says my weapon trap --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: I have to agree with Koltom, I got an "Ambush" event when a goblin (master) thief went into a cage trap, and had another one cut to pieces by a serrated disc, which I only noticed when suddenly all my dwarves rushed off to remove his clothes. --[[User Quertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:31 (UTC+1)
:::: Weapon traps apparently have a chance of friendly fire. At least, that's what the ghost of my Kitten(tame) told me... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 18:48, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== Crossbow Trap? ==

How does a crossbow trap work? Does it have line of sight, like a Dwarf? {{Unsigned|Lordmick134}}

Ranged weapons in weapon traps work much the same as melee weapons do, attacking the creature which triggered the trap. The only real difference in functionality seems to be that they require and use up appropriate ammunition, and (according to the article) do not get occasionally stuck and need cleaning like melee weapons in a weapon trap do. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 21:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trapping cave dwellers ==

Has anyone sucessfully caged a cave dwelling megabeast? I have tried on two seperate maps to capture a minotaur and an ettin, both times the monster just run right through the cage traps. Perhaps creatures that are spawned on embark are bugged immune to traps?

==Weapon Trap Jamming==
The page says crossbow weapon traps don't jam, but what about a trap with a crossbow and a melee weapon? Does the crossbow still fire if the trap jams? Or does a trap have to be pure crossbows to avoid jamming? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:21, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

== Trap betreyals? ==

Has anyone else been betrayed by their own traps? I had a dog and a crossbowman killed by weapons traps. Serrated iron disks ripped through their bodies like the bloody tusks of enraged elephants.

Correction. A dog, a crossbowman, and a miner. Will the slaughter never end?--[[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 12:08, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Trap Question ==

I recently received the message that there was a goblin snatcher in my fortress. It zoomed the page to one of the 3 cage traps. I took the game off pause and it gave me the same message again. Now I have two cave traps sprung, and when I press "k" and go over them, one says : "goblin cage (Larch)" and the other says "Goblin cage(nickel)". Does this mean I have successfully caught the scoundrels? Or are they still at large?

40d Talk:Trading

2008-08-04T03:02:34Z

Sythera: Added a small bit.

== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==

This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Extraction from different articles ==

All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Haulers? ==
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Moving goods on afterwards ==

To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Duplicate Page?==
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]

== culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== "everything is ruined now" ==
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

==Depot Access==
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading Margins ==
In regards to this submission:
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."

You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==

Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>

My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading flowchart ==

Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]

:Ask and ye shall receive
{|cellspacing=0 align=center
|-
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade
|}
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== Offerings ==

Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==

Personally I've found it very useful to do this:

When traders arrive,
a) optionally check stocks.
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.

To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).

The reason:
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.

Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.

Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:

"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Clear the perimeter? ==

Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:What the article says is:
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization,
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year
:#they cannot use stairs
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot
:With the above points in mind:
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation.

I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction.

The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

==Seizing goods==
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."

I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Empty caravans ==

human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== starvation ==

it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)

== Added a small bit. ==

I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.

40d:Trading

2008-08-04T03:01:07Z

Sythera:

{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D
|job=
1 of:
* [[Broker]] noble
* None (See description)
|construction=
3 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Metal bar]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Architecture]]
* and 1 of:
** [[Carpentry]]
** [[Masonry]]
** [[Metalsmithing]]
|purpose=
Trade goods with other races.
}}
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]). While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.

Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction menu, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.

=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}

{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.

=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===
{{K|r}}: To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.

=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If "Only broker may trade" is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, however dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.

=== Trade ===
{{K|t}}: Once the goods have been hauled, a broker is waiting, and the caravan has made its way to the depot and unloaded its goods, it's time to trade. After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Also, be careful of pressing {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.

==== Merchant mood ====
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like. The happier you make a merchant the less profit margin he will require to accept a trade.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

If merchants reach the lowest level (unwilling to trade) as a result of repeated failed deals, they will immediately pack up and no further trade will be possible. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should tread cautiously in initial negotiations as the more times you fail to make a deal, the less happy they'll be and the less inclined they'll be to accept further offers. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

==== Seizing items ====
Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].

As a side note (this may be considered an exploit) one can simply remove his or her trade depot, causing all the items that the caravan unloaded to be strewn about and be readily hauled by dwarves. At this point, this does not seem to effect the caravan's disposition towards you, they will simply leave. (As of v0.28.181.39e)

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs.

=== Wagons ===
Some races send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are 3 tiles wide to pass. A wagon may enter from a location different than the merchant, if the point the merchant entered was inaccessible to it. If a wagon is unable to find an open path to the trade depot, it will leave and the dwarves will only be able to trade with the merchants and pack [[animals]].

Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s (ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct), [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or natural or constructed [[floor]] tiles. Building roads, bridges and floor tiles can help keep paths clear by preventing trees from growing, but caravans may enter the map at a location from which they cannot reach an existing road (even if that road connects to the edge of the map), and if alternate unpaved paths exist, they may take those instead.

After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. Any tile marked in green is accessible to a wagon. Note that a three-tile wide path will only show up as one tile wide in accessibility view, since the tiles next to the walls are not themselves accessible to wagons.

In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation.

=== Liaisons ===
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

=== Races ===
The following races send caravans.

==== [[Dwarves]] ====
The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.
* tends to be well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location.
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.

==== [[elf|Elves]] ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].
* does not send wagons.
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various [[plants]] and wooden items, and may carry tame [[creatures]].
* tends to be unguarded.
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.
* is very picky about what items they will accept in trade.

Elven traders do not like to be offered any animal or tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.23.130.23a}}:

* [[Bone]], [[shell]], [[leather]], or [[chitin]] items
* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* [[Soap]]
* [[Cheese]]
* Any item they normally would accept that has [[Blood|blood]] on it, for instance from a slain enemy.

[[Metal]] items are acceptable, even when [[charcoal]] is used in their production. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].

Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== [[Human]]s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.
* tends to be moderately guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.

=== Destruction ===
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.

Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].

40d Talk:System requirements

2008-08-04T02:54:28Z

Sythera: Small Edit

== DF Doesn't Need a Fancy GPU ==

Even considering how DF uses OpenGL for graphics, an integrated card should have absolutely no problem displaying 2000 quads on screen.

I threw together a quick and dirty test app to render 2000 dwarf faces, and it can manage 100 FPS with just 18% CPU load. Without throttling I get 600 FPS with 80% CPU. That's on an integrated (GMA x3100) card. So, at least for Intel's GMA cards going back at least two years, the graphics should perform just fine.

So that's why I don't think it should be necessary to recommend a powerful discrete GPU, especially when the screen isn't updated very often.

--[[User:Jcromartie|Jcromartie]] 13:31, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:It's specifically stated that an old GPU will work just fine. Just a bargain bin 25$ card would be sufficient for the purpose. A '''BIG''' reason for using a separate GPU is the fact that they will share resources, (Shared Memory *and* CPU Cycles,) which will quickly affect performance of the CPU, which DF is quite power-hungry for at this stage, (and many future stages as well I'm sure.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:39, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

::Not to mention a seperate GPU takes ALL those 2000 quads off the processor. --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 20:35, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

== General Performance ==

I may be talking out of my butt here, and as a developer I can understand the challenges of (and reasons to avoid) optimization, but might it be time to start tuning DF? It uses 99% CPU on a 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo ''all the time''. This is even the case when displaying the main menu or when paused.

Maybe [http://www.artima.com/cppsource/how_to_go_slow.html this article] can shed some light on why it uses so much CPU when it doesn't need to?

--[[User:Jcromartie|Jcromartie]] 13:31, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:I can see where you're coming from, but being that the majority of the game has yet to even be programmed, it's far too early to begin real optimizations. Toady's made a few tweaks to do minor optimizations, so he's got it in mind, so far as it won't interfere with the many core and other items that still need to be added. Over half of the [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_core_1-20.html Core Components]] are still missing, and it's even farther from completion when looking at the [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_req_1-50.html Non-Core Required Components]], a good number of which deal directly with optimization. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:33, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== Dual Core ==

I believe it may be right to add back in a recommendation, but not for multiple cores but the processor itself. Someone made an erroneous edit in the history stating that a single core is usually faster then a dual- this is wrong, as the Core 2 architecture is ''Far'' more powerful then Pentium, though I do not have data for AMD processors. A Core running at a mere 1.86 gigahertz pulls in a 3000+ benchmark (cinebench) versus the lowly 1800-2000 of a 3 gigahertz pentium 4. Not to mention running DF on its own private core is probably the best thing you could do with it.--[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 10:45, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

== Small Edit ==

I changed the Mac OsX portion of the page to a more current update.

40d:System requirements

2008-08-04T02:53:37Z

Sythera:

Requires Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98, or newer

~100MB Disk Space: The game itself takes only about 20MB, but savegames and screenshots (if you take them) use considerable amounts of harddisk space. Some users spend over a gigabyte of space with dwarf fortress.

256MB RAM: The game uses 150+ MB memory while running (more if you select a local grid larger than 6x6). The more creatures, objects, and explored space on your map, the more memory you will need. Most of this can be kept in virtual memory (disk swap), but be sure to have at least 500MB total (physical + virtual) memory available. [[World generation]] requires 400MB at its peak.

Dwarf Fortress loves as much raw CPU power as you can provide it with. Recommended:

Core2: 1.4GHz or higher

Pentium 4: 3.0GHz or higher

Athlon: 3000+ or higher

The larger your map and the more units on it, the harder your computer will need to work (see "optimization", below). Dwarf Fortress will take all the CPU power it is given, and will run at 50-100FPS on a modern system (5-20FPS on a P2 500MHz).

You'll also want a decent video card to keep up with the CPU. Integrated on-motherboard video cards are a bad idea, but even a separate gaming-type video card that's several years old will satisfy DF under most circumstances.

===Dual-core machines===

If you're running a lot of things at once while playing Dwarf Fortress, open Task Manager and set DF to Core1 and everything else to Core0. You will now have an entire core dedicated to running DF, which should give slightly better performance. Multi-threading support isn't currently implemented.

==Other Operating Systems==
===Linux===
Although DF is a Windows game, it works perfectly in Linux using Wine, as long as you have video drivers with working OpenGL acceleration – for all NVIDIA and newer ATI cards, this means using the vendor's closed source driver. Without 2D acceleration the game runs slow as [[Dwarven syrup]]. Most distributions provide Wine, so consult your distribution-specific documentation for help.

See [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000448 this thread] for tips about Ubuntu and other distributions.

===OS X===
A port of Dwarf Fortress to Mac OS X has been completed, and runs on both Intel and PPC based macs. According to the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Website]
it requires system 10.3 or later, 100mb of hard drive space, and a minimum of 512mb of ram.
==Optimizing Dwarf Fortress==
You can greatly increase game speed on all systems; details at [[Maximizing framerate]].

==Example results: What you can expect with various machines==

'''Pentium 4 at 2.2 GHz and 1 GByte RAM, running version 0.27.169.33g:'''

3x3 site, relatively hilly (ten z-levels of elevation change), without magma but with unfrozen brook, no caves, lakes, or monsters; virtually all possible speed-boosting edits in init.txt applied. Game starts to lag seriously at just under 80 dwarves.Speed is down to 30-45 FPS (varies) and occasional interface jerkiness is becoming noticeable.

'''Asus Eee PC 4G - 512 Ram - Windows XP(custom optimized) - DF v0.27.176.38c:'''

Smallest map possible with the smallest site, flatland only 1z above ground, 15z underground, volcano, some lakes, no underground water, 3 monsters, 9 creatures and 7 dwarfs. Speed boosting edits in init.txt. 10FPS on fullscreen mode and 20 on window mode. Some keys aren´t easy to press on that small keyboard, mainly when you have to press fn+shift+key. Conclusion: Play it on a desktop or a better EEE PC. :-(

'''Core Duo 4400 (2x2ghz) - 2 gb RAM - Windows Vista - .38c'''

3x3 site, pretty cliffy. Volcano, part of river and pretty big artificial pool. 120 dwarves, less than 10 roaming animals and ~50 fps. Decreases to 30 when merchants arrive or when many hauling jobs are started.

'''Athlon XP 2200(1.8) - 1 GB 6 year old RAM (DDR100/DDR133) - windows XP -no optimizations to XP or DF -.38c'''

Large site (6x6), medium world,with brook, no speed boost edits, Kapersky running with protection disabled. Slightly upwards slanted hill. Most of human town, no reveal.exe, running Dwarf Foreman, and with a relatively old (and thus slow) install of XP thats had several viruses- 35-40FPS with 17 humans, 38-48 FPS with 7. Drops to 30-35 with alot of hauling or when viewing 1 z level up (1 bellow human town, 1 above my start site). I imagine with a fresh install and a regular sized site it would likely hold 50+FPS. I don't really know where the speed is coming from compared to what other people are reporting- the processor only scores 1040 CB on a cinebench CPU benchmark.

==See also==
*[[Maximizing framerate]]