https://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=SoyDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-04-10T04:12:10ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&diff=96971User talk:Quietust2010-04-21T19:49:57Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"<br />
|-<br />
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience<br />
|-<br />
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:<br />
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.<br />
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.<br />
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.<br />
|}<br />
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==Comments==<br />
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).<br />
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===Template:23a Metal===<br />
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible. <br />
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Metals in 0.23.130.23a don't necessarily use the same foreground color for bars and for background-colored furniture - for example, copper bars are brown and produce brown furniture, but copper barrels are '''red''' with a brown background, while bronze is yellow and a bronze barrel is yellow with a brown background. I was also trying to replicate the original infobox template used on the old wiki, since it depicted the source materials as ores rather than metal bars (and in the 2D version, you could '''only''' make alloys from ores, never bars). There's also the fact that the newer templates unconditionally include Construction as an option, and constructions did not exist back in 23a. The {{tl|23a Ore}} template was made for a similar reason - the current one doesn't handle the unmined tile and the mined stone being different colors (even in current versions, only a few stones actually behave that way, and none of them are ores), and there was no such thing as an economic stone back then (so it was completely impossible to use ores for masonry or stonecrafting). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for the response. I guess it just irritates me on some fundamental level that all of the templates can't be re-used across all of the version namespaces, but it does not seem like it would be worth the time investment in this case to make the changes. It must be the latent programmer coming out in me. At least it seems like the majority of the templates will work OK between the new version and 40d. One tiny suggention I would make though, you may want to add <nowiki>{{Category|Metals}} and {{Category|Ore}}</nowiki> respectively to those two templates, so the pages get filed appropriately. :) --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's one thing to have forward compatibility, but given the huge amount of changes between the 2D and 3D versions it's not surprising that some of the current templates don't work with the old stuff. Also, by "those two templates", should I assume that you meant {{tl|Metal}} and {{tl|Ore}} as well as {{tl|23a Metal}} and {{tl|23a Ore}}? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ugh, my apologies, apparently I was ''assuming'' that the [[Template:Metal|Metal]] and [[Template:Ore|Ore]] templates already had category tags in them. Instead I just looked and it seems like the category tags were manually placed on each individual page. Sorry about that. Having the tags added by the template saves a lot of editing in my opinion, but it's up to you how you want to handle it. I'll work on prying my foot out of my mouth. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::There's also the minor annoyance that including the {{tl|Category}} tag in the template itself also causes the template to be categorized if it transcludes itself as an example, which isn't what we want. If we know that the {{tl|Category}} template will never be used to categorize templates, it would be easy enough to just place a check inside the template itself to check if the namespace is "Template" and simply omit the category tag entirely. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:48, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::That funcionality is already built into [[Template:Category]], with room for expansion should you want to use it to categorize other types of pages. Just a simple #switch on the page namespace. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 19:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Actually, no it isn't - while the template can change '''which''' category gets included, it does not prevent a category tag from being added at all. This would be easy enough to fix - just wrap the outer Category tag with <nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}:Template||...}}</nowiki>. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. If I understand correctly, isn't this the same issue you encounter when inlcuding a normal category tag in a template? Like you said, it shouldn't be a big issue to correct, although I have noticed that Mediawiki doesn't always resolve the markup language in the order that I expect it to. I suppose it could also be fixed on each template that transcludes it, but that defeats the purpose. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 19:49, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===speciality===<br />
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;) <br />
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===Non-Newtonian Fluids===<br />
<br />
To further expound on my edit comments:<br><br />
<br />
For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true:<br><br />
<br />
1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter)<br><br />
<br />
Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian.<br><br />
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All the best.<br />
<br />
===Gamedata===<br />
<br />
How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Namespace Searches===<br />
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Alluvial is not soil===<br />
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Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Slade / Demonic fortresses===<br />
<br />
A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Code stuff===<br />
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===<br />
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Bot Programming===<br />
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Magma temp===<br />
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?<br />
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Archive===<br />
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Tilesets===<br />
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Workshop Pictures===<br />
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===chevron/caret===<br />
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret<br />
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up".<br />[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"]<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29<br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?)<br />I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Decorations===<br />
Care to explain how I made this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]<br />
<br />
No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Defense Design===<br />
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Formatting===<br />
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===booze hauling===<br />
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===statues===<br />
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===salt water===<br />
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)<br />
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Alluvial vs soil===<br />
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===crop table===<br />
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===no soap?===<br />
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Aluminum===<br />
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009<br />
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===Purple Materials===<br />
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Actual character===<br />
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)<br />
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Bot Requests==<br />
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.<br />
===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===<br />
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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===Mainspace 40d redirects===<br />
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Broken Redirects===<br />
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Misc===<br />
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bar vs bars ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms <br />
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 40d:obsidian ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article<br />
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&diff=96961User talk:Quietust2010-04-21T19:24:49Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"<br />
|-<br />
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience<br />
|-<br />
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:<br />
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.<br />
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.<br />
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Comments==<br />
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).<br />
<br />
===Template:23a Metal===<br />
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible. <br />
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Metals in 0.23.130.23a don't necessarily use the same foreground color for bars and for background-colored furniture - for example, copper bars are brown and produce brown furniture, but copper barrels are '''red''' with a brown background, while bronze is yellow and a bronze barrel is yellow with a brown background. I was also trying to replicate the original infobox template used on the old wiki, since it depicted the source materials as ores rather than metal bars (and in the 2D version, you could '''only''' make alloys from ores, never bars). There's also the fact that the newer templates unconditionally include Construction as an option, and constructions did not exist back in 23a. The {{tl|23a Ore}} template was made for a similar reason - the current one doesn't handle the unmined tile and the mined stone being different colors (even in current versions, only a few stones actually behave that way, and none of them are ores), and there was no such thing as an economic stone back then (so it was completely impossible to use ores for masonry or stonecrafting). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for the response. I guess it just irritates me on some fundamental level that all of the templates can't be re-used across all of the version namespaces, but it does not seem like it would be worth the time investment in this case to make the changes. It must be the latent programmer coming out in me. At least it seems like the majority of the templates will work OK between the new version and 40d. One tiny suggention I would make though, you may want to add <nowiki>{{Category|Metals}} and {{Category|Ore}}</nowiki> respectively to those two templates, so the pages get filed appropriately. :) --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's one thing to have forward compatibility, but given the huge amount of changes between the 2D and 3D versions it's not surprising that some of the current templates don't work with the old stuff. Also, by "those two templates", should I assume that you meant {{tl|Metal}} and {{tl|Ore}} as well as {{tl|23a Metal}} and {{tl|23a Ore}}? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ugh, my apologies, apparently I was ''assuming'' that the [[Template:Metal|Metal]] and [[Template:Ore|Ore]] templates already had category tags in them. Instead I just looked and it seems like the category tags were manually placed on each individual page. Sorry about that. Having the tags added by the template saves a lot of editing in my opinion, but it's up to you how you want to handle it. I'll work on prying my foot out of my mouth. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::There's also the minor annoyance that including the {{tl|Category}} tag in the template itself also causes the template to be categorized if it transcludes itself as an example, which isn't what we want. If we know that the {{tl|Category}} template will never be used to categorize templates, it would be easy enough to just place a check inside the template itself to check if the namespace is "Template" and simply omit the category tag entirely. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:48, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::That funcionality is already built into [[Template:Category]], with room for expansion should you want to use it to categorize other types of pages. Just a simple #switch on the page namespace. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 19:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===speciality===<br />
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;) <br />
<br />
===Non-Newtonian Fluids===<br />
<br />
To further expound on my edit comments:<br><br />
<br />
For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true:<br><br />
<br />
1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter)<br><br />
<br />
Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian.<br><br />
<br />
All the best.<br />
<br />
===Gamedata===<br />
<br />
How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Namespace Searches===<br />
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial is not soil===<br />
<br />
Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Slade / Demonic fortresses===<br />
<br />
A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Code stuff===<br />
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===<br />
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Bot Programming===<br />
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Magma temp===<br />
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?<br />
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Archive===<br />
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Tilesets===<br />
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Workshop Pictures===<br />
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===chevron/caret===<br />
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret<br />
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up".<br />[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"]<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29<br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?)<br />I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Decorations===<br />
Care to explain how I made this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]<br />
<br />
No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Defense Design===<br />
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Formatting===<br />
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===booze hauling===<br />
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===statues===<br />
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===salt water===<br />
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)<br />
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial vs soil===<br />
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===crop table===<br />
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===no soap?===<br />
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Aluminum===<br />
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009<br />
<br />
===Purple Materials===<br />
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Actual character===<br />
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)<br />
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Bot Requests==<br />
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.<br />
===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===<br />
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Mainspace 40d redirects===<br />
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Broken Redirects===<br />
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Misc===<br />
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bar vs bars ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms <br />
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 40d:obsidian ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article<br />
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&diff=96950User talk:Quietust2010-04-21T18:44:41Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"<br />
|-<br />
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience<br />
|-<br />
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:<br />
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.<br />
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.<br />
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Comments==<br />
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).<br />
<br />
===Template:23a Metal===<br />
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible. <br />
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Metals in 0.23.130.23a don't necessarily use the same foreground color for bars and for background-colored furniture - for example, copper bars are brown and produce brown furniture, but copper barrels are '''red''' with a brown background, while bronze is yellow and a bronze barrel is yellow with a brown background. I was also trying to replicate the original infobox template used on the old wiki, since it depicted the source materials as ores rather than metal bars (and in the 2D version, you could '''only''' make alloys from ores, never bars). There's also the fact that the newer templates unconditionally include Construction as an option, and constructions did not exist back in 23a. The {{tl|23a Ore}} template was made for a similar reason - the current one doesn't handle the unmined tile and the mined stone being different colors (even in current versions, only a few stones actually behave that way, and none of them are ores), and there was no such thing as an economic stone back then (so it was completely impossible to use ores for masonry or stonecrafting). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for the response. I guess it just irritates me on some fundamental level that all of the templates can't be re-used across all of the version namespaces, but it does not seem like it would be worth the time investment in this case to make the changes. It must be the latent programmer coming out in me. At least it seems like the majority of the templates will work OK between the new version and 40d. One tiny suggention I would make though, you may want to add <nowiki>{{Category|Metals}} and {{Category|Ore}}</nowiki> respectively to those two templates, so the pages get filed appropriately. :) --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It's one thing to have forward compatibility, but given the huge amount of changes between the 2D and 3D versions it's not surprising that some of the current templates don't work with the old stuff. Also, by "those two templates", should I assume that you meant {{tl|Metal}} and {{tl|Ore}} as well as {{tl|23a Metal}} and {{tl|23a Ore}}? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Ugh, my apologies, apparently I was ''assuming'' that the [[Template:Metal|Metal]] and [[Template:Ore|Ore]] templates already had category tags in them. Instead I just looked and it seems like the category tags were manually placed on each individual page. Sorry about that. Having the tags added by the template saves a lot of editing in my opinion, but it's up to you how you want to handle it. I'll work on prying my foot out of my mouth. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===speciality===<br />
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;) <br />
<br />
===Non-Newtonian Fluids===<br />
<br />
To further expound on my edit comments:<br><br />
<br />
For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true:<br><br />
<br />
1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter)<br><br />
<br />
Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian.<br><br />
<br />
All the best.<br />
<br />
===Gamedata===<br />
<br />
How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Namespace Searches===<br />
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial is not soil===<br />
<br />
Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Slade / Demonic fortresses===<br />
<br />
A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Code stuff===<br />
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===<br />
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Bot Programming===<br />
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Magma temp===<br />
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?<br />
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Archive===<br />
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Tilesets===<br />
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Workshop Pictures===<br />
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===chevron/caret===<br />
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret<br />
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up".<br />[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"]<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29<br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?)<br />I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Decorations===<br />
Care to explain how I made this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]<br />
<br />
No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Defense Design===<br />
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Formatting===<br />
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===booze hauling===<br />
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===statues===<br />
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===salt water===<br />
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)<br />
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial vs soil===<br />
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===crop table===<br />
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===no soap?===<br />
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Aluminum===<br />
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009<br />
<br />
===Purple Materials===<br />
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Actual character===<br />
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)<br />
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Bot Requests==<br />
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.<br />
===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===<br />
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Mainspace 40d redirects===<br />
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Broken Redirects===<br />
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Misc===<br />
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bar vs bars ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms <br />
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 40d:obsidian ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article<br />
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&diff=96906User talk:Quietust2010-04-21T18:14:42Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"<br />
|-<br />
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience<br />
|-<br />
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:<br />
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.<br />
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.<br />
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Comments==<br />
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).<br />
<br />
===Template:23a Metal===<br />
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible. <br />
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Metals in 0.23.130.23a don't necessarily use the same foreground color for bars and for background-colored furniture - for example, copper bars are brown and produce brown furniture, but copper barrels are '''red''' with a brown background, while bronze is yellow and a bronze barrel is yellow with a brown background. I was also trying to replicate the original infobox template used on the old wiki, since it depicted the source materials as ores rather than metal bars (and in the 2D version, you could '''only''' make alloys from ores, never bars). There's also the fact that the newer templates unconditionally include Construction as an option, and constructions did not exist back in 23a. The {{tl|23a Ore}} template was made for a similar reason - the current one doesn't handle the unmined tile and the mined stone being different colors (even in current versions, only a few stones actually behave that way, and none of them are ores), and there was no such thing as an economic stone back then (so it was completely impossible to use ores for masonry or stonecrafting). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for the response. I guess it just irritates me on some fundamental level that all of the templates can't be re-used across all of the version namespaces, but it does not seem like it would be worth the time investment in this case to make the changes. It must be the latent programmer coming out in me. At least it seems like the majority of the templates will work OK between the new version and 40d. One tiny suggention I would make though, you may want to add <nowiki>{{Category|Metals}} and {{Category|Ore}}</nowiki> respectively to those two templates, so the pages get filed appropriately. :) --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 18:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===speciality===<br />
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;) <br />
<br />
===Non-Newtonian Fluids===<br />
<br />
To further expound on my edit comments:<br><br />
<br />
For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true:<br><br />
<br />
1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter)<br><br />
<br />
Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian.<br><br />
<br />
All the best.<br />
<br />
===Gamedata===<br />
<br />
How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Namespace Searches===<br />
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial is not soil===<br />
<br />
Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Slade / Demonic fortresses===<br />
<br />
A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Code stuff===<br />
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===<br />
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Bot Programming===<br />
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Magma temp===<br />
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?<br />
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Archive===<br />
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Tilesets===<br />
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Workshop Pictures===<br />
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===chevron/caret===<br />
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret<br />
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up".<br />[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"]<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29<br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?)<br />I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Decorations===<br />
Care to explain how I made this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]<br />
<br />
No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Defense Design===<br />
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Formatting===<br />
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===booze hauling===<br />
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===statues===<br />
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===salt water===<br />
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)<br />
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial vs soil===<br />
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===crop table===<br />
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===no soap?===<br />
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Aluminum===<br />
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009<br />
<br />
===Purple Materials===<br />
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Actual character===<br />
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)<br />
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Bot Requests==<br />
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.<br />
===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===<br />
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Mainspace 40d redirects===<br />
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Broken Redirects===<br />
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Misc===<br />
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bar vs bars ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms <br />
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 40d:obsidian ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article<br />
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&diff=96884User talk:Quietust2010-04-21T15:29:05Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"<br />
|-<br />
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience<br />
|-<br />
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:<br />
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.<br />
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.<br />
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Comments==<br />
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).<br />
<br />
===Template:23a Metal===<br />
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible. <br />
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===speciality===<br />
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;) <br />
<br />
===Non-Newtonian Fluids===<br />
<br />
To further expound on my edit comments:<br><br />
<br />
For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true:<br><br />
<br />
1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied)<br><br />
OR<br><br />
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter)<br><br />
<br />
Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian.<br><br />
<br />
All the best.<br />
<br />
===Gamedata===<br />
<br />
How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Namespace Searches===<br />
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial is not soil===<br />
<br />
Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Slade / Demonic fortresses===<br />
<br />
A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Code stuff===<br />
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===<br />
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Bot Programming===<br />
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Magma temp===<br />
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?<br />
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Archive===<br />
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Tilesets===<br />
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Workshop Pictures===<br />
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===chevron/caret===<br />
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret<br />
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up".<br />[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"]<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29<br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?)<br />I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Decorations===<br />
Care to explain how I made this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]<br />
<br />
No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Defense Design===<br />
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Formatting===<br />
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===booze hauling===<br />
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===statues===<br />
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===salt water===<br />
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)<br />
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Alluvial vs soil===<br />
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===crop table===<br />
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===no soap?===<br />
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Aluminum===<br />
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009<br />
<br />
===Purple Materials===<br />
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Actual character===<br />
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)<br />
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Bot Requests==<br />
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.<br />
===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===<br />
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Mainspace 40d redirects===<br />
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Broken Redirects===<br />
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Misc===<br />
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== bar vs bars ==<br />
<br />
It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms <br />
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 40d:obsidian ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article<br />
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Metals&diff=96477Category:40d:Metals2010-04-21T02:06:41Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Metals| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Albedo&diff=96384User talk:Albedo2010-04-20T21:55:19Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{tb|Soy}}<br />
Hi. I was recently (in mid-March, '10) appointed to the '''[[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Request_for_Adminship/Albedo|Admin]]''' staff on this site, mainly for my understanding of wiki style and how this DF wiki is put together, rather than any exceptional expertise/understanding of arcanities of wiki code. If I left a message on your Talk page, it was probably as an Admin, unless it was clearly otherwise. <br />
<br />
But feel free to post any questions/concerns/comments, and welcome to the wiki!<br />
<br />
If you don't know how to use these templates, check them out:<br />
<br />
*[[Template:DFNewVersion]] - should be added to '''every''' new new version page, for later automation.<br /><br />
*[[Template:NewVersionStub]] - marks a page as a new concept, one that needs fleshing out<br /><br />
*[[template:av]] / [[Template:ArticleVersion]] - automatically links a new article to it's old counterpart<br /><br />
*[[template:verify]] - notifies that a question/concern/challenge of a point in an article exists, as discussed on the talk page for that article (and automatically links to that page!)<br />
<br />
== Aluminum in copper ==<br />
<br />
I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stone articles ==<br />
<br />
The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]<br />
<br />
== (response) ==<br />
<br />
But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...<br />
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).<br />
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.<br />
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).<br />
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.<br />
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.<br />
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)<br />
<br />
==Trader==<br />
<br />
If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.<br />
<br />
<br />
Appraiser -> Trader<br /><br />
Building designer -> Architect<br /><br />
Organizer -> Administrator<br /><br />
Record keeper ->Clerk<br /><br />
<br />
I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.<br />
<br />
:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== fuel ==<br />
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".<br />
<br />
As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.<br />
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:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Olivine ==<br />
<br />
See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==<br />
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==<br />
<br />
In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:<br />
<br />
:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0 <br />
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0 <br />
<br />
And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh...<br />I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==<br />
<br />
The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)<br />
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ <small>small</small> numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==<br />
<br />
Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts.<br><br />
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences.<br><br />
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]<br />
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:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.<br />
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]<br />
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==<br />
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.<br />
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== [[Armor sets]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== glass = wood ==<br />
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[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== quotes ==<br />
<br />
You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Various disagreements ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And it all seems so polite. It's nice when people can disagree with courtesy and style. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Defense Guide ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==<br />
<br />
You know why redirects were invented right?<br />
<br />
So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)<br />
<br />
Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.<br />
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By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Screenshot Tilessets ==<br />
<br />
I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}.<br><br />
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== ??? ==<br />
<br />
If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== re: End of statement ==<br />
<br />
See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]<br />
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== Masonry ==<br />
<br />
I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== version tags ==<br />
<br />
You can use <nowiki>{{subst:current}}</nowiki> to create a version tag on a page for the current version. When you use template:version in other cases, please try to use an actual version number (eg: 0.28.181.40d) since otherwise it will get stuck into [[:category:unknown version]] rather than the appropriate [[:category:version|version]] category. This will matter when game updates make us pick over the old stuff. Also, the game mechanics of 40d# versions are identical to 40d since the only changes are Baughn's OpenGL fixes. For this reason, it's safe to bundle those under 40d's umbrella. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== RE: Garnierite ==<br />
<br />
I'm an absolute twit; It *was* in gabbro, i forgot that gabbro looks exactly like obsidian. *doh*. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 01:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Burrows ==<br />
<br />
Toady did put in burrows, but the version Toady is working on is different from Baughn's OpenGL project. The d# releases are made by Baughn. When we have another version from Toady (with different game code) it will have a different [[version]] number. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The "open gaming" was an just incredibly weird thing to see in the article. An "open gaming" update doesn't even parse right. It wasn't an intended as an insult; rather an exclamation at the strangeness of the thing. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Oh, and the other arrangement wasn't consistent with the formatting of the article. I didn't think altering it would be a problem since the same information is available a paragraph away. It's aesthetic nitpicking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== 2 minutes ==<br />
<br />
That would mean your framerate would not be 100 FPS. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:More confidence? It's obvious. That's *all* that needed said. And frankly, I don't care whether people with faster computers see the game as more of a game or not. All I was doing was explaining *why* it takes you 2 minutes as opposed to 2 seconds for you (which was already explained *in* the article after my revision. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Except that you'd be deleting a talk discussion between multiple people. Even just deleting your parts would ruin the discussion, and whether or not it was or wasn't valid at this time doesn't mean it couldn't be a valid discussion for people later on, maybe someone using the Dig Deeper mod will have the same question and won't be certain if it's the mod or by default, then by seeing the talk there they'll see that it's the mod that does it. Or someone could have the same weird problem as you and might be able to give better explanation for why. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== actually ==<br />
would be nobles'. :) But this wording is better anyway. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Quietust explained the purpose of the restricted areas in the article. They are purely to demonstrate that the dwarves had no route except that one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:59, 4 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== RE: Ice Wolf ==<br />
<br />
:''(you can "verify" yourself by looking at the file. 100% the same as "wolf" except biome and activity cycle)''<br />
<br />
My "{{verify}}" was aimed toward the statement of them being "unnatural" creatures, not identical to regular wolves. Sorry for the confusion, though. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 20:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Contact Info ==<br />
<br />
Yes, I will make my email address available as soon as I get a few more things worked out with the server. [[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== IP Numbers / Sig ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today. If that's not it, let me know and I'll dig deeper.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Wikipedia.com does not have any edit restriction time; instead, they have a brief period of time before a user is auto-confirmed. IP issues may seem odd, but a user is not going to have his IP address dynamically reallocated while using the wiki (as that would cause an internet disconnection at the minimum), responding on the talk page is the same for as a user, and restricting edits based on an arbitrary account scheme is not exactly something that is welcoming. Instead, (and this is from my experience on wikipedia); you'll find that many times the users that continue on and perform substantial positive edits start out as an ip, and eventually register a username; also, the way the current captcha is set up encourages registration (skip the annoying captcha instead of filling one out every single edit, yay!). I understand where your concerns are coming from, but some people like to be anonymous contributors. We shouldn't begrudge them that; and if ip vandalism ever becomes an issue, it's trivial for an sysop to block an IP, range of IPs, or I can very quickly disable edits from unregistered users. At the very least, I want to see what kind of anonymous contributions we will get here for about a month before I go and disable anonymous edits again. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Yeesh, you just want to make me work, huh? announcements all over the place! Yeah, I'll point out the stuff somewhere, but preferably when I'm less sleepy and slightly more awake. :) Also, my brain is not sufficiently on right now to answer your question in any fashion that would make sense, so I'll do that once I've had my caffeine for the day.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 09:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Eagles ==<br />
<br />
"[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Eagle In the real world], Giant Eagles are flying supermarkets that are nearly as strong as elephants." I laughed for a good couple of minutes.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Er, oops, meant to see if you thought perhaps we should change it :V --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 22:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Pages for Deletion ==<br />
<br />
I went through the pages for deletion category, and the majority of them I instead redirected to the appropriate article, or rolled back to a version with a redirect to an article. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:09, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to deleting pages - although administrators (sysops) can review the full revision history of a deleted page, it becomes inaccessible to any others who would attempt to access those resources. Also, the search engine capability is notoriously weak on the mediawiki engine; until such a time that either this wiki is upgraded to a version with improved spelling detection and / or the search system is replaced, I would prefer to err on allowing the redirect of spelling errors to the intended page; the redirect pages consume very few resources server-wise (1 redirect action is completely followed to the target page in as few as 180 lines of code, versus displaying a page which is a cost hit of 10s of thousands of processing events). I can completely understand your concern on keeping the site 'clean,' but until we have a feature for the wiki (and this is something I'm working on!) allowing for tagged 'stable' or 'excellent' revisions, I highly doubt any measure of cleanliness truly matters to anyone except for us wiki-connoisseurs. Also, if the inclusion of such a spelling travesty as "bizmuth bronze" allows some poor, um -- well, moron to access the material they needed, perhaps we can consider that a success?<br />
<br />
:Also, I don't want to claim here that any such policy is set in stone; instead, it's just something I felt would be an appropriate reaction. If you disagree, I propose we >>EDIT WAR!!!<< over these pages. Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 23:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Is that a threat or a promise? ;) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:51, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Graphics gone missing ==<br />
<br />
I thought I had recovered all the missing graphics, but I guess I was wrong. Let me know if another rears its ugly [404] head. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 16:32, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exploratory mining ==<br />
<br />
I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by labor vs. net effect. Ordinarily, I would expect labor to refer to the number of mining jobs necessary to dig out a particular area, whereas net effect would be the number of tiles dug out. However, the comment you made would seem to imply the opposite. What exactly do you mean by labor? --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 01:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Economic Stone: Bauxite? ==<br />
<br />
Excellent edit. I like the way you did it better than I, and your point is well-seen. Just figured I'd pop by to give a thumbs up since I would assume editor's changes aren't well-received as a general rule (though it seems most people here run contrary to that tenet). Anyway, good work! [[User:Erdtirdmans|Erd T. Mans]] (the guy who inserted Bauxite where it didn't belong!)<br />
<br />
== NO0B! ==<br />
<br />
If you have questions, you can ask here or you can email me at locriani in the something is gmail address. Behind the scenes code is... [[fun]], and the best place to learn that is at the mediawiki wiki, or, for the new engine, the [[http://www.wagn.org wagn]] wiki pages. Wagn is rather interesting, but will take a bit to get used to. Yeah, I want to kind of get a few of the templates and features in on Wagn before we start really stuffing new version information into the wiki (and create an account, so I can grant you admin on that as well), so that's what I'm playing with at the moment. Honestly, even with the link in the front page, about 1/10 people will look at it, 1/1000 will register an account, and nobody will actually edit it, so I think we're safe for the new version pages. :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:09, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Your account password is now the name of the 5th [[Special:UnwatchedPages]] on the list, all lowercase. Please change it :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]]<br />
<br />
== [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] ==<br />
Based on your comments and input on the administration requests pages I thought you might be interested in this kind of discussion. Please bring in your comments on this page and on it's talk page and let everyone know what you think. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 20:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Could you drop by and comment on "consensus" again? [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#Consensus.3F] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:31, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Current events ==<br />
<br />
I'd like you to take a look here [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Current_events]. Thanks [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 15:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Disabling Edit Rights ==<br />
<br />
If you click on hide patrolled entries, all of my edits will be hidden. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Addendum - since QuietBot is marked as a bot, its edits are also hidden by default. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:13, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Title of pages in tab==<br />
<br />
It seems with the "40d" migration, most pages just show 40d in the tab at the top of the article (like where the discussion, edit, etc tabs are) . Can that be changed to show the article title instead? I looked at [[experience]] and [[appraiser]] and they both had it so I assume it is universal. If you can check that appraiser question, I'd appreciate it too ;) --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 00:01, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, all of the 'normal' articles show "Page" in that tab, not the article title, since that tab is used to indicate the '''namespace''' in which the page resides. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:39, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't understand. What is a normal article? One for the "future" DF?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 05:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::The title of the pages have never been in the tab. I don't understand it except from observation - if you open any page from before the "new format" (for instance, and go back to the page itself (rather than any redirect to a d40 page), for instance [[hammer]], you'll see the word "page" where you'd expect the Article Title to be. I ''suspect'' that's a sort of "domain", an organizational option for wiki. Default is "page", but "those who know wiki code (better than I)" have set up a different one, "40d", to distinguish those articles from the previous, or what until now have been "normal" (ie, undistinguished/default) ones. This umbrella category for articles is called a "namespace". The current Admin paradigm is that for every future version release, there will be a new namespace - so there will be a (ver = DF2010) namespace very soon, and then some years in the future a (ver = 201?) namespace, etc., etc., to keep the articles from muddying each other, and to allow any legacy versions to keep their documentation intact. (It's been said before, but it bears repeating - Users should remember that "DF2010" will '''not'' be the official [[version]] name, that's just a "working title" users have adopted to refer to the imminent(?) release... and personally I'd find it darkly hilarious and not overly surprising if it weren't released until 2011.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:03, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Your RfA isn't a mod ==<br />
<br />
But I can't remove <nowiki>{{mod}}</nowiki> from it because it's locked. Could you do it? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:42, 12 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== modding guide ==<br />
<br />
The article is about how to make mods, not about particular mods. Also, I didn't RA because I haven't thought of anything I need it for. If I find a use for it, I'll ask for it (: [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Your template includes articles in [[:category:mods]]. The modding guide is already in [[:category:modding]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:24, 16 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: [[Template: ArticleVersion]] ==<br />
<br />
No. It was to a template page. A template that uses lots of parser functions -- it's only reasonable to test on the pages it actually exists on. <br />
<br />
Do you use IRC or gtalk? I'd be happy to explain some of the more complex wiki stuff to you, a few places I've gotten the feeling that you just haven't had a chance to learn about them yet. Let me know. :) [[User:Emi|Emi]] 00:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Premature Arenalation ==<br />
<br />
Fair enough, that was one of my earlier edits before we sort of worked out how we wanted to do this change. No need to inform me of any changes you make to something I did though. If you think you could improve what I did (even if it's by undoing it) go for it and if I think I disagree I'll bring it up to you. '''Short: Cool, agreed.''' [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 02:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I had actually originally intended to take the [[DF2010]] article and split it into a bunch of articles so people can read about each of the new features in a full article that would later develop into the details when they were available after release. It seems we aren't going that way, and that's cool. But Arena was the first and only one I split off. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 16:06, 22 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== re: cv ==<br />
<br />
I'm not sure I completely understand your question, so if my response doesn't answer your question, let me know. The only redirects that are being changed to CV: are ones from mainspace articles to 40d currently. I'm sure some situation exists, in which a mainspace article should redirect to the 40d namespace, but the number is very small. We're not using CV for redirects anywhere but in the mainspace. If you see them somewhere other than the mainspace (and main talk space) they are incorrectly there. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 00:07, 22 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Double Redirects (40d:Gold Bars) ==<br />
<br />
Don't delete these double redirects. They are /very/ important in the wiki's proper functioning. All mainspace pages that are on a topic that is version specific are supposed to redirect to cv:foo, so page gold goes to cv:gold, not cv:metal. This is important, because if it redirects to cv:metal, we've lost the version independence that we're trying to create. So a redirect chain like Gold bars -> 40d:Gold bars -> 40d:metal is correct, don't change it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 01:38, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:There's a very good reason for it's existence. Gold bars -> Metal was a pre-existing redirect, before the whole 40d: thing. I agree that it's maybe a silly redirect, however, right now I am making sure these redirects all work properly, which means the redirect chain I said. If you want to get rid of the redirect, delete the entire chain, and then go and check to make sure you haven't broken a poorly made link somewhere. All you did was delete one part, creating both broken links and broken redirects.<br />
<br />
:As for moving everything to 40d: -- that wasn't me, but they did it the right way. It's much easier to automatically move everything and then go back and change the ones that aren't version specific than to go through and move every one manually. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 02:59, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Also, do you happen to have msn or gtalk? I think we have the same end goal, just differing methodology, and talking over one of those methods is much easier than this. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:02, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Discretion only slows down serializable tasks like the one I was doing. It's much easier to follow the same pattern over and over and then go back and do all the stuff necessary to remove a silly redirect. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:09, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Also, because there's no real reason not to have most of these redirects, it's silly to bother checking each one before fixing them. If the admins at this wiki are of the "I'm an admin, so my word is law" attitude, I'm not sure this is a place I want to be. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::The reason I mentioned that was because your original message gave the feeling. If you had read my actual message, it was regarding the fact that you only broke a double redirect. Had you just deleted the entire chain, I wouldn't have had a problem. Also, I didn't notice that you had deleted it until after I had recreated it. Anyways, I ask again if you use either of those other communication methods, as I think this is more a misunderstanding than anything, and it's much easier to work these things out in real time. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:28, 27 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Colored Notice Box ==<br />
<br />
See: [[Template talk: Colored Notice Box]]. I thought I'd point you to that, as you are one of the most active people here. Let me know what you think. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 05:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Treants and Wizards ==<br />
<br />
I know this may be a reeeeally late answer, but you mentioned wizards have no raw file? I'm pretty sure wizards are included in creature_standard, along with treants. The reason they don't appear in game at but can show up in engravings is because they have no defined biome, thus they don't spawn anywhere. Regarding ogres and trolls, for all hack 'n slash purposes, they're the same thing, apart from having different biomes, prefstring, bonecarn, different number of fingers/toes, etc.<br />
<br />
Comments on the rarity of certain creatures are based on their frequency and biomes. Creatures that spawn only in certain biomes and have lower frequency (like stranglers) are naturally considered more rare. [[User:Dakk|Dakk]] 20:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fix this page template ==<br />
<br />
All I can find is the fix this image template. Hrm. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Cheers. Of course, we can always make one :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== And so it begins... ==<br />
<br />
Haha, yeah. We hit more than 15x the normal pageviews per day yesterday.<br />
I'm still waiting on ToadyOne for an "official" / blessed nickname for the version series we are on. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I just wanted to let you know that you make me laugh (re: over eager editors). Thanks for handling that. :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
===Site Announcements===<br />
Is this better now? You have to explicitly close it on each page. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EmiBot Notice ==<br />
<br />
EmiBot is going to be breaking some links in the 40d article namespace right now, I figured that'd be a better place to start with these edits, since people are mostly going to be interested in 0.31.01 right now. Later EmiBot will go through and tag all the pages that now have red links with {{tl|red link}} so that they're all added to a nice category where they can be fixed by hand, because unfortunately the reason that some links will break is something that EmiBot can't fix. Anyways I was wondering if you might add to [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] that the red links are expected behavior, so people don't start freaking out about them. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:EmiBot has standing orders to check all df2010 pages for {{tl|av}}, so you might remove that part of the notice, because that site notice is a little long. Also, I'd remove all of the new editors stuff but the don't copy/paste part, because they're the most important things currently. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 20:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Also, the links won't be fixed automagically, they'll be tagged for manual fixing, since they can't be automatically fixed. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 20:04, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Could you at least remove the Admin Announcements, New Editors, and thanks the admin, lines? They are fairly superfluous I think. Or maybe change the new editors group of stuff (except for the copy/paste line, because that's extremely important) to a read this type link. The smaller we can make the site notice, the better, because it'll be confusing to non-editors I think. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 20:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I agree, remove those three lines but somewhere add a link to some sort of place where people can ask questions/comments about what's up there. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 20:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Is this better? (note, I'm still afkish)--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Even though I already mentioned it in IRC, yes, much better. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 20:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Meh, I have to disagree. Site Messages are not for those who are conscientious enough to go and read them, they are "HEY- YOU!", in-your-face, "Ha - TRY to avoid reading this!" type announcements - which is ''exactly'' what we need for these first chaotic days. The main reason those lines seem so out of place is b/c we haven't used that notice much before, and the more they look out of place the better the message is communicated. Plus, as is, only people who check will ever see any changes, and many won't check to begin with. <br />
<br />
:I strongly suggest we go back to how it was, or some combo. Visually, a dozen lines is not much more than a half-dozen, and that information seems to be exactly the sort that our new (overenthusiastic and ignorant) editors need to know. (And the first and last lines clearly demarcate it as something outside of the current article). <br />
<br />
:I don't know code, but I know style, presentation and communication - and this won't reach a fraction of whom it otherwise would, and less than that of the new editors that we need to reach. The current link is soft and nice and ignorable - an announcement needs to be ugly and jarring because then it's working, and it won't need to be so for long.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Oh sorry, I could've sworn I had said hourly, though actually I just have a continuous loop going, so it should get pages within say, 5-10 minutes of them being made without a {{tl|av}} tag. Also, could you remove the "collapsed" portion -- oh I see that's already been done actually, I had an idea involving that and custom .css scripts. Could you also add id="siteannounce" before class=etc...? This will allow the default to be open, and allow users to add to their personal .css page to have it be collapsed. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 21:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
(Think someone beat me to it - let me know if not. Collapsible version (default = open) is good by me - solves both concerns nicely.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Version Issue: Lists, Templates, etc... ==<br />
Pages with procedurally generated content, such as the rock layer pages (eg, [[40d:Basalt]]), in addition to regular links also have links applied by template. Some of these, such as the { {Rocks} } navigation tool at the bottom, seem to respect version number. But the sidebar Igneous rock layer list template doesn't, and I can't figure out how the "uses" links are even being generated. Do we have some policy on how this should be fixed? Do we need to make a 40d Igneous rock layer template? How does the Rocks navigation template know how to respect version number?<br />
<br />
Or, more succinctly, arg!<br />
<br />
(Note that the rock layers don't seem to have gotten tagged with {av} at all, nor did their links get updated to 40d ones, so there's a lot of manual work besides the obvious to bring them up to snuff.)<br />
<br />
Edit: While I'm thinking about it, do we have a plan for categories? Because names that start with 40d are going to come before DF2010, and otherwise just be a nuissance.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:57, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ok, so i figured out how to fix templates. There's still stuff I can't figure out how to fix (where is it generating those 'uses' links from???)<br />
:Also, the category problem is a *big* problem - we need a policy and it needs to get implemented sooner rather than later.<br />
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Was about to add this on Briess' page when I saw Squirrelloid note it here. I totally agree. Not being able to sort by alphabet is bad enough (everything's listed under 4 or D) without the user confusion. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 02:25, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It seems like many of the categories are applied to pages through the use of templates. Would it work to modify the category tags in the templates (and the tags manually embedded) to something like <nowiki>[[category:{{NAMESPACE}}:blah]]</nowiki>? It seems like this would effectively split the categories for the two namespaces on the majority of pages, but there may be something that I'm overlooking. Also, Squirrelloid, there is not a lot of consistency in the templates right now, some of the links are built in to the template itself and some are added by the user when the template is invoked in the page. I've been trying go go through and make all of the built-in links dynamic on all of the templates that make sense. The only problem I can foresee is that it will break these templates for users that have them on their user pages, but it seems a small price to pay for the re-usability it imparts. --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 03:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Bwahahaha, random discussion on an admins talk page that he's not chosen to be involved in! (yet...)<br />
::::Anyway, yeah, i've been using the { {L| notation for templates because it works and lets us keep one template (the alternative is to have one template per namespace - uggh). But the stone 'uses' section is neither generated by page content or by template content that *I* can determine, at least, i did look around to find them in both places and couldn't. Its possible the template calls another template or something crazy like that - I didn't even look! --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No comment until now. I think those templates just need to be updated, and/or (urgh), as suggested, distinguished between versions: [[:Template:Stone layer]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The big deal from above is *categories*. We should really have distinct categories between the namespaces because someone clicking a category link probably wants pages for the namespace he's in. ... I suppose the second remaining issue is if anyone knows how the 'uses' links are being generated, but that's a lot more minor and doesn't involve and structural editing (i hope!) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Quick question: what exactly within [[:Template:Stone layer]] is not working properly? Can you give me an example so that I can see what the issue might be? Thanks! --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 20:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Re: So read it... ==<br />
Well sorry if I annoyed you. My bad with the plural form, good to know. But I did take a look on the 40d page and copied some parts, but -and I may quote- "Please do NOT copy/paste old articles into new namespace unless you screen them for accuracy."<br />
So I only transfered those parts where I were 100% sure were valid.<br />
I'm no raw-digger, so I just thought I start the article for others to fill in. If you got a problem with that...<br />
--[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 16:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
Well, I tried to express what I meant there, but it eludes my efforts to put it in words (Does that make sense? I dont think it does). Anyway accept my applogies for any offense taken. I'm simply tring to give my share towards the renewing of the wiki, since it allways was a great help to me in the previous version.<br />
--[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 17:44, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Example - some fish ==<br />
<br />
Regarding this [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=Example_-_some_fish&diff=84241&oldid=73877 edit], wouldn't placing the page in the DF: namespace make more sense than 40d? As it is a stylistic example/test and not game info? [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 17:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Meh - it was a style discussion during 40d, using 40d material. Either way, pretty much marginalized now - didn't belong in 2010, that's for sure.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Plant Table==<br />
<br />
I was intending it to be a general plant table because they share an object in the raws. I made a new table because much of the information on the Crop page didn't apply to all plants. And yes, for practice. Still, if you want me to make it a crop-only page, I'll do that. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:16, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Request for deletion ==<br />
<br />
Sorry to start a new section for this, but I'm afraid that I'm not completely educated on proper etiquette for Talk pages. That being said, would you mind taking care of deleting the [[40d:forest]] and [[40d:tundra]] pages so that I can migrate the existing pages into the proper namespace? It would be much appreciated. --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 18:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re:[[DF2010:Activity zone|DF2010:Activity zone]] ==<br />
Well, maybe i'm not clearly understanding the idea of migrating to DF2010... but now revision 85744 seems to be almost identical to mine(85077). The difference is that i made links with <nowiki>{{L|page|text}}</nowiki> while he used <nowiki>[[DF2010:page|text]]</nowiki>. -- [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:53, 7 April 2010<br />
<br />
== re: nm ==<br />
<br />
There's also the mediawiki technical reasons, so even if it had been CMD, I probably still would have argued for Cmd with a redirect from CMD. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 02:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Revised AV Template ==<br />
<br />
Just curious what you think about the work Briess and I did on it? Any suggestions? [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 00:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::it looks meh, a bit bare, and the green stings slightly (compared with the bluish color of the old one), but that's just me. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 00:39, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think it should <BLINK>blink!</BLINK> [[Special:Contributions/207.114.92.10|207.114.92.10]] 01:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Req for Comments ==<br />
<br />
Hi, would you care to comment on [[DF2010_Talk:Known_bugs_and_issues#Req_for_Comments_-_.27Buggy.27_template|this section]] before I go any further with it? Thanks. [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 12:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Real World" Flavor text in Stone Pages ==<br />
<br />
Regarding the real life facts that were provided by Justyn for the stones, I feel that the Wiki should be a repository of game-pertinent information. Just because it can be found at another Wiki doesn't mean it isn't pertinent, and just because it is real doesn't mean it isn't pertinent. A understanding of the stone can help in game a lot more than a blank page. I could understand if you were talking about pages full of the information, but most of the reverts I have seen you do are short paragraphs, which don't seem to be harmful at all. Having the information also provides a starting place for new contributions that are more game-important (such as notes that unlike in real life, mineral x isn't found in y kind of stone, which is VERY important to some people.) Remember that Toady bases a lot of the physical properties of Dwarf Fortress with real life. It has some fantasy elements, and the rule of cool is prominent, but real life is a good baseline for information when information is sparse on the subject. Examine, for example, the subject of Olivine. His "Real World" information mentioned that Serpentine could be found in it. While that same information can be found by going backwards, it no longer (in its incarnation of 4/20/2010 @12:00 AM MST ) mentions it in the Olivine page. There is a reason that serpentine is found in Olivine though, which can make somewhat of a difference to some people (myself one of them.) ~Kogan Loloklam<br />
: I think as long as the real world information is appropriately set apart from the rest of the article, and it doesn't contribute excessively to the page (The chemical composition of blah blah blah is CO4 something which makes it appropriate for desalinating slugs) should be ok. This is just my opinion. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:50, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: I would also like to add my vote to the fact some real world flavour is useful. If it contradicted the game world I would agree with you but we all know how closely the DF geology follows Earth's. On top of that some of these pages are now blank, and they may as well have some content. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::The real-world info has my vote as well. --[[User:Toksyuryel|Toksyuryel]] 18:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
First, let's be clear about some of what was deleted - here's the first that caught my eye. Note that no distinction was made between DF and RL information...<br />
<br />
:::'''[[DF2010:Malachite|Malachite]]''' is a copper carbonate mineral (Cu<sub>2</sub>CO<sub>3</sub>(OH)<sub>2</sub>) formed as a result of the weathering of copper ore bodies, alongside its "twin" mineral Azurite (which is not present in Dwarf Fortress), which it is known to pseudomorph from, and other secondary copper minerals such as Cuprite (Cu<sub>2</sub>O; not present in Dwarf Fortress) and {{L|Chrysocolla}} ((Cu,Al)<sub>2</sub>H<sub>2</sub>Si<sub>2</sub>O<sub>5</sub>(OH)4·nH<sub>2</sub>O).<br />
<br />
:::Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010%3AMalachite&diff=95942&oldid=95608#ixzz0lfTDsdR8<br />
<br />
Here's another wonderful example...<br />
:::'''[[DF2010:gypsum|Gypsum]]''' is a mineral and stone composed of Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate, (CaSO<sub>4</sub>(H<sub>2</sub>O)<sub>2</sub>) known for it's very soft nature: gypsum is soft enough to be scratched by human (and presumably dwarven) fingernails. Gypsum forms as a result of a bodies of water evaporating and leaving behind particulate matter that crystallizes in super-saturated liquid. When formed in a single cleaved mass, it is called {{L|Selenite}}; when formed in massses of silky fibrous material, it is known as {{L|Satinspar}}; and when formed in a very fine crystalline form, it is called {{L|Alabaster}}.<br />
<br />
:::Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010%3AGypsum&diff=95948&oldid=95622#ixzz0lfSa3EbG<br />
<br />
There are links* to game terms in there - does that mean that the RL info is accurate in-game? I know there are stones, and ores - but now the distinction "minerals" is in the game too? I dunno, but it sure implies that it is! Does this add ''anything'' to the game information? Respectfully, no, and in fact is counter-productive to that end. Some of the info I deleted referred to RL relationships (stones found in other stones) that did '''not''' occur in DF - this actually hurts the wiki's usefulness, for some players at least.<br />
<br />
:''(* links appear [[broken]] because this page is not 2010 namespace, and so those links are not finding "same version" pages. But they linked to 2010 articles in the original.)''<br />
<br />
Malachite is a copper ore, and green. Gypsum makes cast powder, and is white. Not a lot more to say that helps the game (and isn't found in the template, and 3 of those 4 facts are found there).<br />
<br />
...just because it can be found at another Wiki doesn't mean it isn't pertinent, <br />
and just because it is real doesn't mean it isn't pertinent.<br />
<br />
But pertinent to what? A deeper understanding of RL concepts that Toady may or may not have modeled the item on, or ''how the game actually works''? And which do you think is a realistic goal and mission for this wiki? If the former, then wouldn't the link to the RL wiki article serve far better than an abbreviated and edited version? (I'm all up for links - but RL and DF are not the same, and mixing the two lies the way to madness.) (''Madness'', I say!)<br />
<br />
At a policy level, the problems with permitting RL info are twofold:<br />
<br />
1) Readers ''will'' get confused and believe aspects of the game actually work like RL. Terms ''will'' be linked even when in RL context, further confusing the issue. This happens with [[40d:Dwarven physics|dwarven physics]] all the time, and is a huge pitfall. DF can be convoluted enough, and once we add RL correlations with DF terms (linked or not), "muddy" is the polite way of putting it.<br />
<br />
2) Once started, there is no end to RL trivia that can get added - and soon we are both the DF and RL wiki for those topics, with all the ensuing quibbles about what RL info is best and accurate. Anyone remember the [[40d_Talk:Other_weapon#Pike|40d:pike]] (weapon) discussion page, and article? Or all the "RL mythology" info added on the [[40d:hydra]] article? Oy, the pain. ''(cont'd below...)''<br />
<br />
: I would certainly like to see these 2 to 5 lines of information, rather than a blank page.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:30, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
''(...cont'd)''<br /><br />
<nods> Absolutely! Once upon a time, no item got an article unless there ''was'' something to say about it! But with 0.31, editors have gone "template crazy", and now we have an article on EVERY SINGLE STONE AND GEM!?? Gimme a break. [[DF2010:Amber opal|Amber opal]], [[DF2010:Bone opal|bone opal]], [[DF2010:Cherry opal|cherry opal]], [[DF2010:Gold opal|gold opal]], and another ''two dozen'' "opals" (and then we can start on the "agates"!) - what does this add that couldn't be better contained in a table, as in 40d? <br /><br />
I've had better things to do than bring this up, but since we're here - I agree 110%! An article that has nothing to say should not be an article, and padding it with RL trivia and chemical formulae does not make it acceptably significant. Make them all redirects to a table on "stone", as in 40d. Or split the diff, and have a separate table for similar "types" of stone, taking a lesson from the new [[DF2010:creature]] article format.<br />
<br />
If, otoh, the info in the template is deemed important enough by itself, then we (you, me, everyone) have to accept that as the sum total of the "content", and we go back to what some similar 40d articles said... ''"Just another rock"''.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Soy&diff=96381User talk:Soy2010-04-20T21:51:19Z<p>Soy: wrong button</p>
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<div>== Re: Template Alloy3 ==<br />
I made a couple changes, it should work just fine now whether it is used in 40d or Df2010. Thanks for pointing it out. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 17:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For most templates there's no reason making a change similar to mine would break anything. Just don't do it to <nowiki>[[category:foo]]</nowiki> links. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 20:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==deletion requests (etc.)==<br />
Done. And that was perfect, np by me. Readya later, --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==Categories==<br />
Thanks forthe heads up. [[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 00:37, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== More and yet more Categories ==<br />
<br />
There is a point when a new category really achieves nothing productive. "Physics"?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I fail to see how this is non-productive. If you take a look through the category pages you can see the result I am trying to achieve with the numerous edits that I have done to try to reorganize things. I posted notes about what I was attempting to do in multiple places and received no feedback whatsoever until this point. If you have a better suggestion for organization I would be happy to implement it. <br />
:My general plan of attack was to segregate each category so that it ends up something like [[:Category:Creatures]] where you have a 'plain' category that links to a sub-category for each version of DF. It is almost like assigning each category to a namespace (like the articles are) only without actual namespaces. This way when a reader clicks on a category link, they can rest assured that they will <b>only</b> get pages belonging to that version of DF. <br />
:You are correct in that it does create three times the categories (four once more pages are added for 23a), however it was the best solution for organization that I could come up with. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 21:51, 20 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Soy&diff=96376User talk:Soy2010-04-20T21:44:24Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Re: Template Alloy3 ==<br />
I made a couple changes, it should work just fine now whether it is used in 40d or Df2010. Thanks for pointing it out. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 17:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:For most templates there's no reason making a change similar to mine would break anything. Just don't do it to <nowiki>[[category:foo]]</nowiki> links. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 20:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==deletion requests (etc.)==<br />
Done. And that was perfect, np by me. Readya later, --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Categories==<br />
Thanks forthe heads up. [[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 00:37, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== More and yet more Categories ==<br />
<br />
There is a point when a new category really achieves nothing productive. "Physics"?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I fail to see how this is non-productive. If you take a look through the category pages you can see the result I am trying to achieve with the numerous edits that I have done to try to reorganize things. I posted notes about what I was attempting to do in multiple places and received no feedback whatsoever until this point. If you have a better suggestion for organization I would be happy to implement it. My general plan of attack was to segregate each category so that it ends up something like [[:Category:Creatures]] where you have a 'plain' category that links to each version of that category. It is almost like assigning each category to a namespace (like the articles are) only without actual namespaces.</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Physics&diff=96362Category:40d:Physics2010-04-20T21:05:15Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Physics| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Soy/testbed&diff=96297User:Soy/testbed2010-04-20T17:36:21Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>Empty!<br />
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}}]]<br />
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{{av}}<br />
/--></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Soy/testbed&diff=96295User:Soy/testbed2010-04-20T17:32:33Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>Empty!<br />
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{{av}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Biome&diff=9592240d:Biome2010-04-20T01:12:48Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>{{av}}<br />
A '''biome''' is a biotic area with homogeneous features, characterized by distinctive {{L|plant}}s, {{L|creatures|animal species}} and {{L|climate}}. A biome will also contain only one set of stone layers, though these usually expand beyond a single biome. Your {{L|dwarves}} will find different resources depending on which biomes they select when starting a fort.<br />
<br />
== Selecting a biome ==<br />
<br />
Biomes are important when choosing a fortress location in order to understand your {{L|surroundings}}. Individual biomes, which form at least one map-tile of your embark location, can be cycled with the {{Key|F#}}-keys; for example, an area with 3 biomes present can be cycled using {{Key|F1}}, {{Key|F2}} and {{Key|F3}}. The selected biome will be highlighted with flashing Xs on the Local Map, and the biome's information will be displayed on the right side of the screen. ''(See the {{L|Indecisive%27s_illustrated_fortress_mode_tutorial|illustrated guide}} for more detail).''<br />
<br />
== Understanding Biomes ==<br />
<br />
Selecting different Biomes gives you some ability to influence the difficulty of your game. Each biome has a different set of resources; the availability of {{L|tree}}s, {{L|sand}}, certain {{L|plant}}s or {{L|animal}}s, and sometimes {{L|water}} is specific to a particular biome, and different biomes may have different stone layers containing {{L|flux}}, {{L|coal}}, useful {{L|ore}}s, or a high chance of {{L|magma}}. {{L|Mountain}}s have a lot of {{L|ore}} and some exclusive {{L|underground river|features}}, but no {{L|soil}}.<br />
<br />
Generally it is advantageous to plot your embark {{L|location}} at the convergence of multiple different biomes, the more the better (within reason) - which is made easier if you enlarge your starting embarkation area. However, it is not usually too hard to find three or four biomes using the default size.<br />
* ''Note: Making the starting plot larger will slow your game down considerably; likewise, a small embark area can dramatically increase framerate.{{version|0.28.181.40d}}''<br />
<br />
By making use of several biomes you can provide more resources for your fort. Making sure one of your biomes contains either a broadleaf or conifer {{L|forest}} will provide you with an ample supply of {{L|tree}}s, even if the rest of your plot extends into badlands and {{L|desert}}. You might get wood from a forest, ore from a mountain, and flux from {{L|hills}} that just happen to have a flux layer; many other permutations are possible.<br />
<br />
Any biome can have any set of {{L|surroundings}}; for example a {{L|glacier}} could be {{L|haunted}}, {{L|wilderness}} or {{L|mirthful}}. However, a named region (which is a contiguous area of one category of biomes, such as forests or wetlands) will be either good, neutral, or evil. It is not uncommon to see a large mountain range with one alignment and a few mountains, disconnected from the main mountain range by a single region tile, with a different alignment. Therefore, the more biomes you have, the more likely it is to have several alignments, if so desired.<br />
<br />
If your plot contains only {{L|ocean}}, {{L|lake}} or {{L|mountain}} biomes you will not be able to embark. The dwarves would have difficulty parking their {{L|wagon}} on water, while mountains are too barren and remote to reach.<br />
<br />
The exact process is unknown, but no relation has been found between biomes and the stone layers that lie deep beneath them in the same area block.<br />
<br />
== Available Biomes ==<br />
<br />
=== Arctic ===<br />
*Arctic {{L|Ocean}}<br />
*{{L|Badlands}}<br />
*{{L|Glacier}}<br />
*{{L|Mountain}}<br />
*{{L|Rocky wasteland}}<br />
*{{L|Sand desert}}<br />
*{{L|Tundra}}<br />
*{{L|Taiga}}<br />
<br />
=== Temperate ===<br />
*{{L|Temperate}} {{L|Broadleaf forest}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Conifer forest}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Grassland}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Lake|Freshwater lake}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Marsh|Freshwater marsh}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Swamp|Freshwater swamp}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Ocean}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Marsh|Saltwater marsh}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Swamp|Saltwater swamp}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Savanna}}<br />
*Temperate {{L|Shrubland}}<br />
<br />
=== Tropical ===<br />
*{{L|Tropical}} Dry {{L|Broadleaf forest}}<br />
*Tropical Wet {{L|Broadleaf forest}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Conifer forest}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Marsh|Freshwater marsh}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Grassland}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Ocean}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Savanna}}<br />
*Tropical {{L|Shrubland}}<br />
<br />
==Biomes at World Generation==<br />
<br />
Biomes are created at [[world generation]] based on the elevation, rainfall, and drainage of the tile as follows:<br />
<br />
{|{{prettytable}}<br />
|-style="background:#dddddd"<br />
!Biome !!Elevation !!Rainfall !!Drainage<br />
|-<br />
|Water ||0-99 ||Any ||Any<br />
|-<br />
|Sand Desert ||100-299 ||0-9 ||0-32<br />
|-<br />
|Rock Desert ||100-299 ||0-9 ||33-49<br />
|-<br />
|Desert Badlands A ||100-299 ||0-9 ||50-65<br />
|-<br />
|Desert Badlands B ||100-299 ||0-9 ||66-100<br />
|-<br />
|Grassland ||100-299 ||10-19 ||0-49<br />
|-<br />
|Savanna ||100-299 ||20-32 ||0-49<br />
|-<br />
|Marsh ||100-299 ||33-65 ||0-32<br />
|-<br />
|Shrubland ||100-299 ||33-65 ||33-49 <br />
|-<br />
|Hills ||100-299 ||10-65 ||50-100<br />
|-<br />
|Swamp ||100-299 ||66-100 ||0-32<br />
|-<br />
|Forest ||100-299 ||66-100 ||33-100<br />
|-<br />
|Low Mountain ||300-332 ||Any ||Any<br />
|-<br />
|Mountain ||333-365 ||Any ||Any<br />
|-<br />
|High Mountain ||366-400 ||Any ||Any<br />
|}<br />
<br />
More visually, for just the middle elevations:<br />
{|border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; text-align: center; "<!-- copied from Prettytable template, but those colspans required centering. --><br />
|-<br />
| rowspan=2 colspan=2 |<br />
! colspan=5 |Rainfall<br />
|-<br />
!0-9 ||10-19 ||20-32 ||33-65 ||66-100<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=4 |Drainage ||0-32<br />
| Sand Desert<br />
| rowspan=2 |Grassland<br />
| rowspan=2 |Savanna ||Marsh ||Swamp<br />
|-<br />
!33-49<br />
|Rock Desert ||Scrubland<br />
| rowspan=3 |Forest<br />
|-<br />
!50-65<br />
|Badlands A<br />
| colspan=3 rowspan=2 |Hills<br />
|-<br />
!66-100<br />
|Badlands B<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
*{{L|Regions}} for the possible values for Trees, Vegetation and Surroundings.<br />
*{{L|Volcano}}es which are not a biome in Dwarf Fortress, but may provide important resources<br />
*{{L|Climate}}<br />
<br />
{{World}}<br />
<br />
{{Category|Biomes| }}<br />
{{Category|World}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Biomes&diff=95921Category:40d:Biomes2010-04-20T01:09:56Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
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<div>[[Category:Biomes| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Water_bodies&diff=95920Category:40d:Water bodies2010-04-20T01:09:25Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Water bodies Category:Water bodies'</p>
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<div>[[Category:40d:Biomes|Water bodies]]<br />
[[Category:Water bodies]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Deer&diff=95884v0.31:Deer2010-04-20T00:02:31Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>{{av}}{{elven}}<br />
{{CreatureInfo v0.31|name=Deer|symbol=d|color={{COLOR:6:0:0}}<br />
|bones=13|meat=10|fat=9<br />
|eyes=0|lung=2|heart=1<br />
|intestines=1|liver=1|tripe=1<br />
|sweetbread=1|spleen=1|kidney=2|brain=1|<br />
nerves=Yes|skulls=1|skin=Yes|<br />
<br />
|biome=<br />
* {{L|Taiga}} <br />
* {{L|Temperate}} {{L|Forest}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
:''A medium-sized hoofed forest creature than grows its antlers back each year.''<br />
<br />
{{gamedata|[CREATURE:DEER]<br />
[DESCRIPTION:A medium-sized hoofed forest creature than grows its antlers back each year.]<br />
[NAME:deer:deer:deer]<br />
[CASTE_NAME:deer:deer:deer]<br />
[CHILD:1][GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:deer fawn:deer fawns]<br />
[CREATURE_TILE:'d'][COLOR:6:0:0]<br />
[PETVALUE:50]<br />
[PREFSTRING:grace]<br />
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]<br />
[LARGE_ROAMING]<br />
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]<br />
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:4]<br />
[BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA]<br />
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]<br />
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL][PET_EXOTIC]<br />
[BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]<br />
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HOOF:HOOF_TEMPLATE]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]<br />
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HOOF:HOOF_TEMPLATE]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR]<br />
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]<br />
[PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]<br />
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]<br />
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]<br />
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]<br />
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]<br />
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]<br />
[HAS_NERVES]<br />
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]<br />
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]<br />
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]<br />
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]<br />
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]<br />
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]<br />
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]<br />
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:14000]<br />
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:70000]<br />
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:140000]<br />
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]<br />
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]<br />
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]<br />
[MAXAGE:20:30]<br />
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HOOF_FRONT]<br />
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]<br />
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]<br />
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]<br />
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]<br />
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]<br />
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HOOF_REAR]<br />
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]<br />
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]<br />
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]<br />
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]<br />
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]<br />
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]<br />
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]<br />
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]<br />
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]<br />
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]<br />
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]<br />
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]<br />
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]<br />
[DIURNAL]<br />
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]<br />
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]<br />
[MUNDANE]<br />
[CASTE:FEMALE]<br />
[FEMALE]<br />
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]<br />
[CASTE:MALE]<br />
[MALE]<br />
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]<br />
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]<br />
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1]<br />
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]<br />
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]<br />
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1:BURNT_UMBER:1:CINNAMON:1:COPPER:1:DARK_BROWN:1:DARK_PEACH:1:DARK_TAN:1:ECRU:1:PALE_BROWN:1:PALE_CHESTNUT:1:PALE_PINK:1:PEACH:1:PINK:1:RAW_UMBER:1:SEPIA:1:TAN:1:TAUPE_PALE:1:TAUPE_SANDY:1]<br />
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]<br />
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]<br />
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_BROWN:1]<br />
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Creatures}}<br />
{{Category|Creatures}}<br />
{{Category|Animals}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Crop&diff=95745v0.31:Crop2010-04-19T20:51:31Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{elven}}<br />
:''(This article is about plants. If you want information about trees, see {{L|Tree}}.)''<br />
<br />
'''Crops''' (or more accurately '''plants''') can either be farmed, traded for, or acquired by plant gathering. Farming happens at farm plots. There are two types of crops: above ground and subterranean. The seeds of subterranean crops may be brought from the starting embark screen or, with some small luck, purchased from dwarven caravans. Above ground crops and seeds may be purchased from human or elven caravans or gathered by dwarves with the plant gathering labor enabled. Seeds may also be collected by processing the plants or eating them (but not by cooking!). <br />
<br />
A few of the plants listed below are not strictly crops as such as they have no seeds and can't be planted (see note "3", below.) <br />
<br />
Most plants can be brewed into alcohols, each plant type producing a different variation, and dwarves do prefer some variety in their drink. Some plants may be eaten raw, others must be cooked first, others must be processed first (by milling or plant processing) before they are edible, and still others are inedible, producing only non-food products. Despite the option to do so (even enabled by default in the z-stocks-kitchen menu), drinks can not reliably be cooked into meals; the process is bugged.<br />
<br />
All drinks require a spare barrel for storage, and some other products also require specific containers for storage. Plants can be stored in barrels or without container, seeds are stored individually or in bags which can then be put into barrels. Note that any number of seeds fits in one barrel; it may be advisable to have a one-tile stockpile that accepts only seeds next to your farm(s).<br />
<br />
<br />
Some of the values given below may be inaccurate. Please use with care and verify!<br />
<br />
{{plant table head}}<br />
<!--Blank row template is: {{plant table row|name=|tile=|color=|color2=|seasons={{seasons3||||}}|biome=|align=|value=|drink=|drinkv=|eat=|cook=|prod=|prodv=}}--><br />
{{plant table row|name=Plump helmet|tile=♠|color=5|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|drink=Dwarven<br /> wine|drinkv=10|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Pig tail|tile=τ|seasons={{seasons3||1|1|}}|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|drink=Dwarven<br /> ale|drinkv=10|prod=Pig tail thread (p)|prodv=2}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Cave wheat|tile=τ|color=7/1|seasons={{seasons3||1|1|}}|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|drink=Dwarven<br /> beer|drinkv=10|cook=p|prod=Dwarven wheat flour (m)|prodv=20}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Sweet pod|tile=Φ|color=4/1|seasons={{seasons3|1|1||}}|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|drink=Dwarven<br /> rum|drinkv=10|eat=p|cook=p|prod=Dwarven sugar (m)<br />Dwarven syrup (l)|prodv=20☼<br />100<sup>1</sup>}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Quarry bush|tile=♣|seasons={{seasons3|1|1|1|}}|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|cook=p|prod=Quarry bush leaves (b)|prodv=25}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Muck root/4|tile=τ|color=0/1|biome=Wetland/Wet|value=1|drink=Swamp<br />whiskey|drinkv=5|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Bloated tuber/4|tile=Φ|color=6|biome=Wetland/Dry|value=2|drink=Tuber<br /> beer|drinv=10|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Kobold bulb/4|tile=Φ|color=0/1|biome=Wetland/Wet|value=5|prod=Gnomeblight (e)|prodv=100}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Prickle berry|tile=:|color=2|biome=Not freezing/Dry|value=1|drink=Prickle<br />berry wine|drinkv=5|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Wild strawberry|tile=:|color=4|biome=Not freezing/Dry|value=4|drink=Strawberry<br />wine|drinkv=10|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Longland grass|tile=τ|color=6/1|biome=Not freezing/Dry|value=4|drink=Longland<br />beer|drinkv=10|cook=p|prod=Longland flour (m)|prodv=20}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Valley herb/4|tile=ÿ|color=2/1|seasons={{seasons3|1|||}}|biome=Temperate grassland/Dry|value=10|cook=y|prod=Golden salve (v)|prodv=100}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Rat weed|tile=τ|color=2|biome=Not freezing/Wet|value=1|drink=Sewer<br /> brew|drinkv=5|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Fisher berry|tile=:|biome=Not freezing/Wet|value=4|drink=Fisher<br />berry wine|drinkv=10|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Rope reed|tile=ƒ|color=2|biome=Not freezing/Wet|value=4|drink=River<br /> spirits|prod=Rope reed thread (p)|prodv=2}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Dimple cup|tile=♥|color=1/1|biome=Wet cavern|value=4|prod=Dimple dye (m)|prodv=20}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Blade weed|tile=τ|color=2|biome=Not freezing/Dry|value=4|prod=Emerald dye (m)|prodv=20}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Hide root|tile=τ|color=6|biome=Not freezing/Dry|value=1|prod=Redroot dye (m)|prodv=10}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Sliver barb|tile=τ|color=0/1|biome=Not freezing/Dry|align=Evil|value=1|drink=Gutter<br /> cruor|drinkv=5|prod=Sliver dye (m)|prodv=20}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Sun berry|tile=:|color=6/1|biome=Not freezing/Wet|align=Good|value=9|drink=Sunshine|drinkv=25|eat=y|cook=y}}<br />
{{plant table row|name=Whip vine|tile=§|color=3/1|biome=Not freezing/Dry|align=Savage|value=1|drink=Whip wine|drinkv=15|cook=p|prod=Whip vine flour (m)|prodv=25}}<br />
|}<br />
'''Notes:'''<br />
:<sup>1</sup> This is the value for a stack of 5 units, which is the number rendered from a single plant.<br />
:<sup>2</sup> Anything that can be cooked is edible afterwards. [[DF2010_Talk:Cook#No_Seeds|Cooking leaves no seeds for re-planting.]]<br />
:<sup>3</sup> These plants cannot be eaten/cooked until they are further processed, either by milling or extracting; see "products" column for process product.<br />
:<sup>4</sup> These plants cannot be grown on a farm plot as they have no seeds. They can only be acquired through plant gathering (in season only) or trade.<br />
<br />
To get the products/extracts from the plants they have to be processed, in the following {{L|workshop}}s, using the following {{L|labor}}s:<br />
:*'''m''': mill ({{L|cave wheat}}, {{L|sweet pod}}, {{L|longland grass}}, {{L|whip vine}}, {{L|dimple cup}}, {{L|blade weed}}, {{L|hide root}}, {{L|sliver barb}}): At {{L|quern}} or {{L|millstone}}, using {{L|milling}}.<br />
:*'''b''': process to bag ({{L|quarry bush}}): At {{L|farmer's workshop}}, using {{L|plant processing}}.<br />
:*'''l''': process to barrel ({{L|sweet pod}}): At farmer's workshop, using plant processing.<br />
:*'''p''': process plant ({{L|pig tail}}, {{L|rope reed}}): At farmer's workshop, using plant processing.<br />
:*'''v''': process to vial ({{L|valley herb}}): At farmer's workshop, using plant processing.<br />
:*'''e''': extract plant essence ({{L|kobold bulb}}): At {{L|still}}, using {{L|plant gathering}}.<br />
<br />
{{Category|Crops| }}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=95696User talk:Briess2010-04-19T17:14:04Z<p>Soy: /* Category Issues */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Extension request ==<br />
<br />
(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])<br />
<br />
A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)<br />
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace<br />
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions<br />
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions<br />
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows: <br />
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.<br />
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.<br />
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.<br />
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Archive Subdomain problem==<br />
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.<br />
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contact info? ==<br />
<br />
Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Favicon ==<br />
<br />
The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== You may want to watch this page ==<br />
<br />
[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Short delay for new accounts? ==<br />
<br />
Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.<br />
<br />
Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== IP numbers instead of sig? ==<br />
<br />
When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled<br /> anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...<br />
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... <br /><br />
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==leave==<br />
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Personal==<br />
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]<br />
<br />
== Deletion Policy ==<br />
<br />
Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? <br /><br />
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. <br /> <br />
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh.<br /><br />
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none.<br /><br />
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what<br /> the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.<br />
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== graphic gone missing ==<br />
<br />
[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==<br />
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad. <br />
<br />
I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus. <br />
<br />
You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ? <br />
<br />
Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page<br />
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.<br />
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.<br />
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.<br />
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This is stupid and childish. I suggest the two of you cease contact and stay away from the quote page. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 07:20, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==<br />
<br />
The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cannot add new accounts ==<br />
<br />
The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below: <br />
<br />
This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre><br />
<br />
Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP<br />
<br />
:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.<br />
<br />
::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue. <br />
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==<br />
<br />
We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==<br />
<br />
I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]<br />
<br />
As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.<br />
<br />
I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!<br />
<br />
Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Awesome, thanks!<br />
<br />
--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Vandal ==<br />
<br />
[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]] (one of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]), but he continues to make edits to the [[gremlin]] page. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Can I have admin rights? ==<br />
<br />
Hey. I'm working on developing wiki pages for the new version of DF. These pages are listed [[:Category:Dwarf_Fortress_2010|here]]. There is a lot to do for this and most people probably won't be too interested for a couple weeks after release. I'm hoping to have something in place for structure, and also for new users before release. In doing so I'm trying to rearrange some of the pages I've made and make them more useful. I've done a few moves but I'm going to have a lot of move over redirects to do at some point and I need admin rights to make sure I clean up the mess I make. I've been admin on a dozen or so wikis, and effectively ran [http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki sporewiki] for months myself. If you give me admin rights you can feel free to monitor all my actions to make sure everything is kosher. I just hate having to bother someone else to fix tiny things. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 17:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just as a side comment, it's usually been my observation (from many different places) that directly asking for admin rights is a really good way to ensure that the answer will be "no", especially for somebody who only registered on the wiki 1 week ago, but that's just me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I suppose on a forum or site where admin matters, but on wikis my experience is that if people have a reasonable use for the tools and don't look like they intend to screw anything up, then who cares? But then again, that's only because everything is able to be undone so it's a zero risk situation. I don't know why people would want to make a wiki and then restrict people who seem helpful from editing it easily, kinda counter-productive imo. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 03:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I think Admin is the wrong word. These kinds of people are janitors or managers or something. Admins are people who also manage users, sometime you don't want a person to have access to. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 03:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Depends what environment you are familiar with. On Mediawiki-based wikis (Wikipedia for example) the phrase "Admin" often refers to the user group that has a few powers like deleting pages, blocking users, protecting pages, editing system messages, because these are the default for the sysop group. I really only have a desire to use the deleting pages power, but there is a lot of opportunity to work on the system messages here as well. I posted this hear because even though the average person doesn't know that admin = person with a couple extra powers on a wiki, I assumed Briess (who is a bureaucrat) would know. Admin is in Media-Wiki terminology correct, the person who manages users is a bureaucrat on wikis. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 06:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Wouldn't it be less problematic to just create Category:Deletion_requests or something? Oh, we already have that at [[:Category:Deletion]]. I don't know if Briess knows about it though. --[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 06:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well I don't see any reason why it's problematic to just hit the button on the user rights page. Just because some people seem to think that admin on a wiki should be like a reward system instead of a set of tools doesn't mean that's the right thing to do. Especially when the two bureaucrats aren't even on here most days (or so it seems). [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 08:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I'm not inclined to make a decision about this just yet, give me a day or two to mull over it. If you want to continue discussing this, please do by all means. Also, I am aware of the deletion request page, and actually pruned it this last week. :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 10:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Sounds good, just remember that all sysop actions are revertible as well, as well as the decision to make someone a sysop. You can always just mark deletion and then visit [http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Mason11987&page=&year=&month=-1 this page] once a day to make sure I wasn't deleting useful things. Most of what I intend to delete will be my own pages anyway, or redirect pages. I read your comment on your deletion policy on albedo's talk page and that's pretty much my philosophy as well. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 18:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Saw the wiki admin page and your note. Sounds reasonable to me. I'll fill one out when I get the chance (work has been VERY busy recently). [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 11:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wİkimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
I've been thinking that it would be nice to add some photos to the wiki, such as of trees, stones and animals, for example. Wikimedia commons would make an excellent source, since from what I gather the whole point of it is that the images are meant to be freely reused. However, apparently third party wikis such as this one can link to commons directly, if it's enabled. (see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgForeignFileRepos and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseInstantCommons) So is there any chance we could get that enabled? (Excuse me if this is already enabled, but unless I am mistaken it is not.)--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 01:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help with Bloodline Games ==<br />
<br />
I've started a couple of games ([[User:Melek|see my user page]]) but although lots of people seem interested from various discussion pages I'm guessing they're not watching that page to see that games are now being hosted. Is there any way for me to send emails to these interested parties or have someone who already has access to their emails to do it for me? I would like to get these games on the go and alot of people are interested on the Wiki without knowing about them! -- [[User:Melek|Melek]] 06:35, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== deletion not gone ==<br />
<br />
Briess (Talk | contribs) deleted "File:Fireman.jpg"<br />
<br />
And yet, it's still there... http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/File:Fireman.jpg<br />
<br />
(And you really should delete some of the older topics on this page. Sheesh.) ; ) <br /><br />
--[[Special:Contributions/75.62.155.145|75.62.155.145]] 09:44, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cannot login ==<br />
<br />
I can't login. :( bombcar<br />
<br />
== Policy on Labour/Labor, etc ==<br />
<br />
Some clever rabbit just took it upon himself to edit about 60 pages, changing every British-spelled word he could find to American spelling ( [[Special:Contributions/Thromordyn]] ). I "undid" all the colorful/colourful and favourite/favorite changes, but most are labor/labour and armour/armor - and that is less clear, so I wanted a policy call. <br />
<br />
The word "labor" only appears in indirect references within the game itself (such as in engravings, "The dwarves are laboring"), [[sphere]]s, and an obscure crime ("Conspiracy to Slow Labor") according to the [[string dump]], and in the Article title on this wiki - nowhere else. <br />
<br />
The term "armor" is a harder sell, as it's actually used in a couple places in the game interface ("armorsmith", the 3 pieces of torso protection, and "{{k|v}}iew/preference/soldiering: "armor level"), but it could still fall under the same policy/philosophy.''<br />
<br />
Do we want to discourage editing of all references of [[labour]] to [[labor]] and [[armour]] to [[armor]], or encourage a single-minded "correct" spelling of that word? Happy to do the undos if the former, just as happy to leave them be if the policy is the latter. (Imo so long as it's consistent on a given page either spelling should be perfectly acceptable and not changed, even within links to articles and despite the main article title, but that's just me.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Thumbnail generator is not working ==<br />
<br />
On the main page, I get:<br />
<br />
Error creating thumbnail: /usr/bin/convert: Unrecognized option (-thumbnail).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 05:11, 23 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Interwiki ==<br />
<br />
The interwiki link to the russian wiki is pointing to the wrong domain. The correct one is http://www.dfwk.ru.[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== N00b! ==<br />
<br />
So... whassup, boss? If I have questions, do I ask here, or is there somewhere better? (And you'll want my e-mail.) Got a page you recommend to learn the behind-the-scenes code? And what's the story with the "new wiki engine" on the Home Page? Is that the Wagn engine you were talking about? (Would it be better to wait and use that with the new version, once that gets released? That could act as a filter for old information.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Speaking of "oopsies", I dropped a typo on my e-mail addy in my Wagn account, so I need that deleted ("Albedo") so I can re-apply correctly. thnx (And what do you think of a central page here for Wagn Q&A?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wagn ==<br />
<br />
What are the advantages of Wagn? My first impression of the thing is a less powerful and less attractive version of mediawiki. Most of the documentation I've found on it so far reads like sales copy. I will look into it more, but right now my opinion is that this is a Bad Idea. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:12, 27 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Err, I broke the wagn :/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] ==<br />
Based on your comments and input on the administration requests pages I thought you might be interested in this kind of discussion. Please bring in your comments on this page and on it's talk page and let everyone know what you think. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 20:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Could you drop by and comment on "consensus" again? [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#Consensus.3F] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:31, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thank you ==<br />
<br />
For your help on the Request for Adminship page. Sorry for having "caused" it, anyways, but I'm sorry, I'm not gonna hide who I prefer to be just for politics. Anyways, I just wanted to offer my thanks to you for that, whether I win or lose. --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 00:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Current version" namespace? ==<br />
<br />
I don't know if this is really what most people were thinking of doing. I think most people were supporting using "Main" as the namespace for the up to date articles. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:37, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Could things be moved en masse from "current version" to "main"? I was thinking the process (for each page) would be:<br />
:*Move article to 40d namespace (now there is a redirect, which is helpful for readers)<br />
:*Edit article to have a "version"-type template, which will auto-link to the 40d article, and do categories and everything as desired.<br />
:In this way users can always find the article they want at every point in the process. doing moves to current version namespace, then back to main would break that w/double redirects, or broken redirects. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:48, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Err.. that was complete overkill. Easily 2/3 of the wiki is going to be unaffected by the release. This means manually shifting the correct things from old to current is at least twice as much work as shifting the correct things from current to old. Also, [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=Special:DoubleRedirects&limit=5000&offset=0 this] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:09, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The unaffected pages shouldn't have to be rewritten. Is it possible for you to just copy things? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:14, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
What about copying over the entire wiki and putting it on another subdomain? We can stick interwiki links in as necessary. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:20, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, that's a ''good'' idea! (Because what we got now, just ain't right.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seemed to work fine back when we had the 2D version wiki (which currently exists only on archive.org, and in a somewhat incomplete form), so I don't see why it wouldn't have worked here as well. It'd also have the advantage that existing links between pages would continue to work - as it is, any page in the 40d namespace will be full of links to other pages in the '''main''' namespace, which will be completely wrong once DF 2010 actually arrives and the main namespace pages stop being redirects to 40d. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Archiving the wiki in that form greatly increases the server resources required to host the wiki. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 15:05, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This isn't really relevant to things, but I think seeing this will help deepen your often displayed love for mediawiki: [[:Category:Creatures]]. :D [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any chance we can get an explanation of what is happening with regards to the namespace changes? Currently the Broken Redirects page is full of every page, but they're not actually broken. I'm sure you're vividly aware of all this already, I'm just trying to figure out what I can be doing to help, but don't want to step on any toes. {{User:Syzgyn/Sig}} 17:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:While some of those are indeed glitches, a fair amount are actually broken talk page redirects which will be fixed once I set my bot loose on them. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:57, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The count has now gone from 1841 down to 1028. However, the Recent Changes list seems to have become quite confused as a result of all of these redirect changes, listing wildly inaccurate "bytes added/removed" counts for various pages as if it's comparing to very old versions - it would seem that whatever method was used to originally move the pages into the 40d namespace has caused some residual database corruption. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:20, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fixing "Broken" pages ==<br />
<br />
So far, you've deleted a whole bunch of Broken pages which simply contained redirects to the 40d Talk namespace, but there's still a whole bunch of other Broken talk pages which contain actual data. If you're at all interested, I've got a wiki bot that could be used to rename all of those remaining pages (and optionally delete the redirects left behind). The bot itself is just a set of functions for interacting with MediaWiki (login, logout, load page, save page, move page, delete page) which get called by other scripts in whatever means is appropriate. I've used the bot on several other wikis and it works reasonably well - the is code hosted [http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/User:QuietBot here], on the wiki for which it was originally designed (what with being an admin who needed to do lots of bulk edits, moves, and deletes). With your approval, I'd be willing to run the bot myself on a separate wiki account; if not, you're free to do whatever you want with the code. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Looks like I've run into a minor snag - this wiki seems to be configured to redirect on login (via [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRedirectOnLogin this setting]) rather than display the "Login successful" screen my bot expects, causing it to error out. Is there a way to disable that behavior for specific users (not sure if adding the user to the "Bots" usergroup will have that effect or not)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:16, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<s>If either of you are going to run something that will generate more than 400 or so log entries, can I suggest that you ''first'' temporarily disable all users editing rights? We're losing any record of what's being done while this is going on as these waves of "fixes" push that down off the Recent Changes page.</s> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:36, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:'''SCIENCE!''' (thx!)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:42, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
It's chugging along quite nicely so far - I had to make a few fixes to the scripts so it'd work with this version of Mediawiki (some tags have extra attributes, some tags have attributes in different positions, and the Move result now appears in a different tag altogether), but it looks to be working now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:47, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:All done - once [[Talk:Broken/40d\x3aMachine component]] is renamed (existing [[40d Talk:Machine component]] is in the way), all of the remaining "Talk:Broken/*" pages should consist entirely of redirects which can be safely deleted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 8 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[Special:UncategorizedPages]] ==<br />
<br />
Is there anyway you can include currentversion and 40d in this list? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 00:31, 9 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Any idea on this? Thanks [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 02:19, 20 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wiki Glitch? ==<br />
<br />
Taking a brief look at [[Special:Statistics]], it claims that there are 1,210 edits in the Job queue, and that number doesn't seem to be decreasing, which seems a bit unusual - normally, anything in the job queue will be processed whenever somebody loads a page, causing the number to decrease to 0 fairly quickly. Either some jobs have gotten stuck in the queue (possibly as a result of the 40d namespace move), or the wiki's been configured to empty the job queue at an extremely low rate (which is how the KoL wiki behaves, but even there it only takes a few hours to process a thousand edits, while I'm pretty sure this one has been at 1,210 since at least yesterday). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:27, 10 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Captcha ==<br />
<br />
I suppose it was sort of silly of me to assume that confirmation worked the exact same way here as it does on Wikipedia. Admins there are able to give the auto-confirmation user right. Thanks for letting me know though. :) [[User:Emi|Emi]] 08:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mod warning template necessary on pages in the Modification namespace? ==<br />
<br />
[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=Modification:Ark_Project&curid=7866&diff=72952&oldid=62846 This revision] added the [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Template:Mod mod template] to the Ark Project page. Unless this is absolutely necessary, I'd like to remove it, since the namespace already makes it obvious that it's a mod. Guidance please? --[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 02:12, 14 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== On the topic of namespaces... ==<br />
<br />
Do you have a database dump of the "archive" (v0.23.130.23a) wiki? It'd be nice to be able to import all of its pages into a "23a" namespace so that it isn't necessary to go digging through archive.org (which is also outright missing a bunch of pages). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:29, 14 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contact Info ==<br />
<br />
Is there someway we could get in a faster form of contact (maybe irc?) so we could test out the dynamic redirect system? I'm thinking I may want to spend a little more time in article.php though and maybe add some sort of magic word like variable that gets parsed before redirects. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 15:19, 16 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Ah, what server though, I lurk on freenode since that's what Wikipedia uses. Also this wiki is in need of either some talkback templates or maybe liquidthreads, though that's still a little not quite ready as I recall. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 00:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question about wiki dump ==<br />
<br />
Question for you here [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51064.0]. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 20:12, 22 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Potential mod: Links within namespaces ==<br />
<br />
With a bit of hacking, I may have come up with a way of vastly simplifying the process of isolating content between different versions of Dwarf Fortress:<br />
<br />
[code hidden - Edit to view]<br />
<!-- <br />
includes/parser/parser.php<br />
- $nt = Title::newFromText( $this->mStripState->unstripNoWiki($link) );<br />
+ $nt = Title::newFromText( $this->mStripState->unstripNoWiki($link), getNamespaceLinkDest($this->mTitle->getNamespace()) );<br />
<br />
includes/Title.php<br />
$m = array();<br />
if ( preg_match( $prefixRegexp, $dbkey, $m ) ) {<br />
$p = $m[1];<br />
- if ( $ns = $wgContLang->getNsIndex( $p ) ) {<br />
+ if (( $ns = $wgContLang->getNsIndex( $p ) ) !== false) {<br />
# Ordinary namespace<br />
$dbkey = $m[2];<br />
$this->mNamespace = $ns;<br />
-----<br />
# Do another namespace split...<br />
continue;<br />
}<br />
<br />
+ # Reset default namespace when dealing with interwiki links<br />
+ if ($firstPass)<br />
+ $this->mDefaultNamespace = $this->mNamespace = NS_MAIN;<br />
<br />
# If there's an initial colon after the interwiki, that also<br />
# resets the default namespace<br />
if ( $dbkey !== '' && $dbkey[0] == ':' ) {<br />
<br />
LocalSettings.php (at the end)<br />
<br />
// Fill this array with source namespace => default destination namespace mappings<br />
// For example, if 100/101 are 40d/40d Talk and 102/103 are 23a/23a Talk, the following would be used:<br />
// $wgNamespaceLinkDest = array(100 => 100, 101 => 100, 102 => 102, 103 => 102);<br />
$wgNamespaceLinkDest = array();<br />
<br />
// this probably ought to go in some other file, but I can't think of a good place to put it right now<br />
function getNamespaceLinkDest ($ns)<br />
{<br />
global $wgNamespaceLinkDest;<br />
if (isset($wgNamespaceLinkDest[$ns]))<br />
return $wgNamespaceLinkDest[$ns];<br />
else return NS_MAIN;<br />
}<br />
--><br />
What this modification attempts to do is make it so that links from pages in specific namespaces will automatically point to specific other namespaces if no namespace is explicitly specified in the link; for example, putting <nowiki>[[Block]]</nowiki> in 23a/23a_Talk would treat it as [[23a:Block|Block]], while putting it in 40d/40d_Talk would make it act like [[40d:Block|Block]]; putting <nowiki>[[Block]]</nowiki> anywhere else would just treat it as [[Block]], and specifying <nowiki>[[40d:Block]]</nowiki> would '''always''' link to the 40d namespace. Explicitly linking to the global namespace would have to be done as <nowiki>[[ :Block|]]</nowiki> ('''with''' the space, otherwise it just strips it out), showing up as [[ :Block|Block]] - ideally, I'd prefer to just have it use <nowiki>[[:Block]]</nowiki>, but getting that to work would require some additional voodoo (since the code in parser.php strips out the colon early, and trying to get rid of that logic would probably break other things).<br />
<br />
I should warn that I've only done limited testing with this - templates and category links still look okay, interwiki links appear to work (at least after modifying Title.php), and a cursory check suggests that images are also working, but it's possible it'll break ParserFunctions. This is the first time I've even delved into the MediaWiki source code, so it's possible I've missed something important; if somebody more familiar with the inner workings of MediaWiki could chime in and examine my code changes, I'd probably be comfortable with them being used here. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:<small>I think the implementation of this would be fantastic btw [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 02:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:While I think some sort of solution is needed, I think there are potentially better ways, like perhaps adding a template that would be used like <nowiki>{{l|Block}}</nowiki>. Ideally we should avoid modding the actual files where possible. Also, that set up would be just completely confusing to anyone new to editing this wiki if they had previous wiki experience. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 02:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::In fact, I actually just created a template that does this, <nowiki>{{l|Emi|somepage}}</nowiki> will result in {{l|Emi|somepage}} as we are currently in the User_talk namespace. The same code in the main space would make a link that looks like [[Emi]]. Also the template can be used like <nowiki>{{l|Emi}}</nowiki> which will make {{l|Emi}}. It may not be the most elegant solution, but I think it's a much more straight forward one. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 02:58, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The problem is that existing inter-article links in the "other" namespaces don't point to their intended targets. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I think the actual problem was a way to prevent people from having to write out large links. Quietust's bot can easily change the existing links. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::In other words, the template solution would still require editing '''every article''' in order to fix the links, something that would have to be done anyways. '''If''' my patch turns out to work, the only things that'll be necessary will be a cache purge and link table regen, at which point every single article will be fixed. Of course, that's still a pretty big "if"... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Yes, it does require editing every article, but it's an easy thing for bots to do. The concern I have with your patch, is that it really affects the parser functions. You haven't tested it yet? If that's the case, I can toss it onto my test wiki to see what happens. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 03:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::I didn't say it '''did''' affect ParserFunctions, just that I was concerned that it '''might'''. After a few tests, it is apparent that my worries were unfounded - it works just fine with them. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::There aren't really THAT many pages. About 3k in main, ~1k in 40d. That's not really a big deal AFAIK. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 11:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::If the bot can fix all of the existing links, then why do we need either of these solutions? Do you want to keep moving things around like this in the future? (I hope not) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::That's assuming I '''can''' write a bot to fix all of the appropriate links correctly (and leave all of the other links unmodified)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just added another minor patch (which I've also submitted to [https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22940 WikiMedia bugzilla]) to Title.php to permit $wgNamespaceAliases to alias to the Main namespace (e.g. so "$wgNamespaceAliases['Main'] = NS_MAIN;" could be configured, permitting <nowiki>[[Main:ArticleName|]]</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[ :ArticleName|]]</nowiki>). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I just wrote a simple little python bot that can change the links, and discovered what our actual problem is going to be: scenarios like the link to "cheese" from [[40d:milk]]. If that link is changed to <nowiki>{{l|cheese}}</nowiki> (which basically has the same end-linking effect as your mod) then we run into a problem with redirects. For instance the mainspace article named Cheese redirects to cv:Cheese maker. For everything to work properly, we have to have a 40d:cheese page that redirects to 40d:Cheese maker. Obviously that creates double redirect problems, so the link on 40d:milk has to be changed to <nowiki>{{l|cheese|cheese maker}}</nowiki>. This poses a later problem; what if cheese gets its own article? This leaves us with two options: 1) Having crazy bots designed to take care of all of this for us. Or 2) Modding away the restriction on double redirects. Neither is a very good option. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 21:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I guess this discussion is over, then, given that we're apparently going with the {{tl|l}} template instead. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Fix/Improve this page" template? ==<br />
<br />
I know it's out there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find/remember it. Needed for [[ 40d:Making a labyrinth]]. Thanks, --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's possible I'm projecting its existence into here from the RL wiki - meh. Thanks for looking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:07, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Can't upload? ==<br />
<br />
For some reason I can upload images. It says that the file is empty, but it most definitely isn't <br />
<pre>The file you uploaded seems to be empty. This might be due to a typo in the file name. <br />
Please check whether you really want to upload this file. </pre><br />
Ideas? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 13:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== And so it begins... ==<br />
<br />
..........................................................................................................................holy shit.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
We need to change "DF2010" to whatever '''we''' decide is the new version number asap. Every view of that reinforces something that we don't want to see perpetuated. If the new version is 0.31.01, then I'd suggest we lose the last, and go with ver = '''0.31''' - sound right??? (duplicate question in [[version]]).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
I'm still waiting on ToadyOne for an "official" / blessed nickname<br />
Yeah, just sent Three-toe a sim request. Might be 0.31.01 or just 31.01, or it might be 0.31 - wait'n see time. :P --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Almost a week later, and still silence on the "official version number" front. I think it's time we Be Bold, and go with "31.01", trusting that bug fixes will follow the same pattern and just add a letter to the end of that. More and more editors are using '''<nowiki>[[DF2010:_____]]</nowiki>''' for links, and that's just digging a deeper hole. If we can at least get them to use the '''<nowiki>{{L|_____}}</nowiki>''' format, then even if 31.01 is wrong, it'll all still fall into place. Eh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Laughter is all we have left. I started going all Jack Baugher on that one, but then thought twice and stifled myself. (Speaking of which, I may do just that at some point - if you see me go over the line, '''please''' just delete/undo/whatever. I kneejerk sometimes at real morons, even if not approp.) btw - I know SiteNotice is a bit long atm - beat those few Notices to New Editors into their sensibilities for the first few days, during the flood of over-enthusiasm and (understandable) ignorance, then reduce it back to something normal.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
====Site announcement====<br />
Most definitely ''not'' better, imo. See reasoning here: [[User_talk:Albedo#EmiBot_Notice]].--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plant Tokens ==<br />
<br />
Actually, those tokens all exist. They're in the executable, so it may be worthy to add a section detailing tokens still in the exe but may or may not be obselete. [[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 19:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Admin ==<br />
<br />
Neat, Thanks :) [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 02:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Default search categories wrong ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be a server administrator. The default search category selections doesn't include the new DF2010 namespace. There's a configuration variable you have to tweak in LocalSettings.php... I think.<br />
<br />
==Spoiler image==<br />
<br />
I was hoping to replace the current image on the main [[Template:Spoiler|spoiler template]] with one that would suit all versions - took a screenie of the intro video plus an ampersand and threw in some text from the new HFS big announcement. Figured in this case it'd be better to ask permission than be bold as it's a oft-used template. Largely an arbitrary move but I thought it would be nice. It has the exact same dimensions btw. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 06:01, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[File:Spoiler2010.png]]<br />
<br />
==Special pages: Broken Links==<br />
Good catch on [[Development arc]], missed that it was improperly capitalized, and only noticed the strange versioned redirect.<br />
<br />
I've basically cleared the Broken Links page out, except for two I don't know what to do with. I can't figure out what 40d:Menu used to redirect to, and the 23a space is totally foreign to me.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:44, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Category Issues==<br />
I posted on this on Albedo's talk page when I thought he was the editor most-likely to be online. See [[User Talk:Albedo#Version Issue: Lists, Templates, etc...]]. Basically, we really shouldn't have different namespaces sharing the same categories, and should probably figure out a good way to handle this now rather than later. (If there's a better place to have this discussion than admin talk pages, feel free to start one in an appropriate place or point me in the right direction!) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:27, 4 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Briess, can you (and the other admins/editors) take a look at the category pages and let me know what you think of the current layout? I wasn't really sure where else to post this kind of request... They aren't completely finished at this point, I've been doing a little bit at a time when I have the free time to sit down and focus, but they're slowly getting there. Within the next few days I hope to have all of the little manual category editing done so that I can run my bot across the [[:Category:Current|Current]] and [[:Category:Obsolete|Obsolete]] categories to (hopefully) catch any stragglers. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]<sup><small>([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]])</small></sup> 17:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Buzzard Bait==<br />
I've taken a moment to calm down a bit. I'm still quite angry at you over this one. <br />
<br />
First, I made a goof, I uploaded a file that had my own desktop on it which just isn't necessary. In attempting to fix this I used the replace tool on the uploader. Instead of replacing as intended it instead created two new files, a copy of the original I wanted to replace, and the new file, and set the wrong file as the default AGAIN! So now there are three files, two with my desktop, one without. I look at the file list and try to revert to the correct file. instead of reverting, it again sets the wrong file as default, and creates a third copy of the file I don't want. GRR!!!!<br />
<br />
In flustration I leave a note for someone to please help, and soon notice someone drop a note in my talk page suggesting that the gadget is currently broken since he had a similar experience recently and suggests I just upload a clean copy to a different filename. <br />
<br />
I do so, which finally works. I felt bad about the mess I've created but it's not really my fault if your replace and revert tools are both BROKEN! I finish editing my personal page verifying that the new link works as I intended. It seems to be working.<br />
<br />
I take one last look before leaving and find that it is broken again. Investigating this, I find that you have come along and done a redirect that has instantly broken everything I just tried to fix, the corrected file is now GONE, the broken file is now back, the captions are borked up, and now I'm rather pissed off. I don't want to upload it again, so I'm going to go somewhere quiet and scream for a while. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 00:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Just as a side note thing or whatever, that was me who mentioned it was broken - not that I know the inner workings of the system, but when I tried to replace an image earlier repeatedly it refused to show anything but the original image despite cacheing the replacements and I had to just upload a new one from scratch. Hence my response to Doctorzuber. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:08, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::DrZ - you are hereby banned for 1 dwarf season for tantruming <''turns up fps''> - zzzzip! Okay, that's done - don't let it happen again. ; ) The cache seems to be lagging more than usual atm - try forcing a refresh (ctl+F5), that may be part of it - or not. If you have a file name/link I can take a look.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: yea, well after spending what appears to be the better part of an hour arguing with the wiki page, finally getting it to work only to have briess come along and bork it all up again five seconds after I fixed it... Grr.... Sorry, I think I'm entitled to a little screaming at this point. <br />
<br />
:::As for the filenames those are Buzzard_Bait.png and Buzzard_Bait_2.png. 1 is a mess, and thanks to the redirect I can't even see it now. At one point there were 4 copies of 1, 3 wrong, one correct, but redirect wouldn't let me go to the correct one. When I created 2 it worked, for a few seconds, but now 2 redirects to one of the incorrect versions of 1 and I'm more or less stuck for now. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:34, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Drzuber: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Buzzard_Bait.png <-- what you're looking for? Or just add '_2' to the URL to get the other. As for redirects, if you want to go to the redirecting page scroll back up after getting redirected and click the 'redirected from <link>' smalltext under the page name to get sent there. Dunno if that helps at all but it's a nifty future reference tip. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:47, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::: Nice try, but no. That's the file with my desktop still stuck on it, as for going back to 2 and avoiding the redirect it's been blanked so the file isn't there, even checked the history on it and there's nothing I can revert to. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I see you dropped by my page and my little issue is resolved finally, I have a few small questions for you that I left back at my page when you get around to looking at it, no hurry. Thanks much for your time. and feel free to delete this topic after you've seen it. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 03:28, 5 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Demonic fortress==<br />
<br />
Sorry about that, I didn't realize we were editing the same articles at the same time. Yeah, I didn't know the 'don't capitalize anything but the first letter' rule until a few days after I made that and was having redirect issues just before you did that. Good to see it's been properly moved. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 00:35, 7 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Just thought of something ==<br />
<br />
Do we use some sort of caching system server side? Something like Squid perhaps? <br />
<br />
If so, I'm afraid our whole version migration process might have created a lot of load there. That is, memory usage-wise. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 03:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==40d:Armok==<br />
<br />
Can this page be removed from the 40d namespace? (or better, is it possible for regular editors to do this? would make it easier than running to you every time something like this comes up) --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== custom javascript ==<br />
<br />
Hey, is custom javascript enabled here? [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:User_style#JavaScript]. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:nvm, got answer. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] <sup>([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]])</sup> 01:44, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Req for Comments ==<br />
<br />
Hi, would you care to comment on [[DF2010_Talk:Known_bugs_and_issues#Req_for_Comments_-_.27Buggy.27_template|this section]] before I go any further with it? Thanks. [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 12:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pssst Briess ==<br />
<br />
Here's that thing we were talking about [http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RestrictedPython/ right here]. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 06:18, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: IRC ==<br />
<br />
That firewall must be really dumb then. [[user:Emi|<span style="color:#8a4e4e">Emi</span>]] [[user_talk:Emi|<span style="color:#6a3e4e">[T]</span>]] 05:47, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Search namespaces ==<br />
<br />
Currently, it looks like Search is only set to look at Main, Utility, Modification, 40d, and "Unused"; the namespaces for Bloodline, 23a, and DF2010 should also be added. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Request for deletion ==<br />
<br />
Is there a way we can mark a page as deletion requested, or otherwise bring it to moderator attention? --[[User:StrongAxe|StrongAxe]] 20:20, 15 April 2010 (UTC)</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Fortress_mode&diff=95603Category:40d:Fortress mode2010-04-19T04:10:37Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Fortress mode| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Trade&diff=95602Category:40d:Trade2010-04-19T04:10:05Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Trade| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:World&diff=95601Category:40d:World2010-04-19T04:09:22Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:World| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Gems&diff=95596Category:Gems2010-04-19T03:59:18Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>These are gems.<br />
[[Category:Fortress mode]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Magma_safe_materials&diff=95595Category:40d:Magma safe materials2010-04-19T03:57:05Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Magma safe materials| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Magma-safe&diff=9559440d:Magma-safe2010-04-19T03:56:21Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
'''Magma-safe materials''' consist of {{L|pig iron}}, {{L|iron}}, {{L|steel}}, {{L|nickel}}, {{L|nickel silver}}, {{L|platinum}}, {{L|bauxite}}, ({{L|raw adamantine|raw}}) {{L|adamantine}}, and {{L|fire imp}} {{L|bones}} and {{L|leather}}. It can be difficult to control {{L|magma}} flow with {{L|floodgate}}s since {{L|mechanism}}s must be made out of {{L|rock}}s, almost none of which are magma-safe ({{L|bauxite}} and {{L|raw adamantine}} being the sole exceptions).<br />
<br />
Note that although the above metals are all magma-safe, their {{L|ore}}s (excluding raw adamantine) are '''not''' - thus, while a {{L|platinum}} floodgate will operate properly in magma, {{L|native platinum}} mechanisms will melt after several seconds.<br />
<br />
In order to construct mechanisms from bauxite, simply ensure that they are the closest available stone to your {{L|mechanic}}, ideally by placing a bauxite-only {{L|stockpile}} around your {{L|mechanic's workshop}}. To use raw adamantine, however, you must allow its use for non-economic purposes in the stock screen ({{key|z}} and select 'stone') - while doing this, you might want to suspend any other stone-using jobs.<br />
<br />
When linking a trigger to an object, the ''first'' mechanism selected is attached to the object, and the ''second'' is attached to the trigger. Unless the trigger itself will be submerged in magma (as could be the case with a {{L|pressure plate}}), only the first mechanism (attached to the object that will be submerged) need be made of bauxite. If you do not have any bauxite or adamantine available, you can also work around floodgate based flow control by using {{L|screw pump}}s to pump the magma over {{L|wall}}-barriers, or using water to form {{L|obsidian}} to plug flows and channel through them to reopen them (necessity and invention and all that).<br />
<br />
Constructions that resist magma are:<br />
<br />
* Constructions ({{L|Wall}}, {{L|Floor}}, {{L|Ramp}}, and {{L|Stairs}}) of any material can never melt or burn - there is nothing wrong with a {{L|wood}}en magma reservoir. Natural (but not constructed) {{L|ice}} walls/floors/ramps/stairs may melt however.<br />
* {{L|Fortification}}s will allow the passage of {{L|magma}}, but not the assorted magma creatures. Fire snakes are vermin, so they can spawn anywhere near their native biome - the magma pipe/pool. They are not affected by fortifications, grates, or even solid walls. Also, there is a bug with fluids which may sometimes let magma (and water) push living things through barriers such as fortifications, bars and grates. {{L|Pump}}s are a positive defense, but can change the dynamics of fluid {{L|pressure}}.<br />
* If not submerged (that is, not opened to let magma flow over/past/around them), {{L|door}}s, {{L|floodgate}}s, and raised {{L|bridge}}s (provided that there is no magma on the space the bridge would occupy when lowered) of non-magma-safe stone or metal are safe. So long as they are just in contact with magma, only acting as a passive "wall", they are fine. If opened, they will melt.<br />
** Raised drawbridges have a notable exception, in that allowing magma to flow over the area that the bridge would normally occupy when lowered ''will'' cause the bridge's components to heat up and potentially melt.<br />
* All parts of a {{L|pump}}, except for the passable tile, provided that none of the components are made of wood.<br />
<br />
==== Glass ====<br />
[[Glass]] behaves oddly in regards to magma. Glass is, in itself, not magma safe; glass [[instrument]]s will melt in magma. However, glass [[furniture]] will not. So glass [[statue]]s, [[screw pump]]s, and [[floodgate]]s are all fine when submerged in magma. Forum link with experiments: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27423.msg333562#msg333562<br />
<br />
Glass barriers still require magma-proof mechanisms to operate without deconstructing.<br />
<br />
== Game calculations ==<br />
In the game, magma's temperature is exactly 2,032°F, or about 1,111°C. This is also 12,000° {{L|Temperature_scale|Urist}}.<br />
<br />
Metal:<br />
* {{L|Pig iron}} &mdash; 2138°F (1170°C, 12106°U)<br />
* {{L|Nickel}} and {{L|nickel silver}} &mdash; 2651°F (1455°C, 12619°U)<br />
* {{L|Steel}} &mdash; 2750°F (1510°C, 12718°U)<br />
* {{L|Iron}} &mdash; 2800°F (1538°C, 12768°U)<br />
* {{L|Platinum}} &mdash; 3214°F (1768°C, 13182°U)<br />
* {{L|Adamantine}} &mdash; 15032°F (8333°C, 25000°U)<br />
<br />
Stone:<br />
* {{L|Bauxite}} &mdash; 3632°F (2000°C, 13600°U)<br />
* {{L|Raw adamantine}} &mdash; 15032°F (8333°C, 25000°U)<br />
<br />
Leather:<br />
* {{L|Fire imp}} {{L|leather}} &mdash; 3532°F (1944°C, 13500°U)<br />
<br />
Bones:<br />
* {{L|Fire imp}} {{L|bones}} &mdash; 3532°F (1944°C, 13500°U)<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Magma FAQ}}<br />
[[Category:Physics]]<br />
{{Category|Magma safe materials}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Magma-safe&diff=95593v0.31:Magma-safe2010-04-19T03:55:57Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
<br />
'''Magma-safe materials''' are materials which will not melt, burn or evaporate when in close contact with {{l|magma}}. Most frequently, this comes into play when using {{l|floodgate}}s operated by {{l|mechanism}}s.<br />
<br />
In order to construct mechanisms from a magma-safe stone, simply ensure that they are the closest available stone to your {{l|mechanic}}, ideally by placing a restricted {{l|stockpile}} around your {{l|mechanic's workshop}}.<br />
<br />
When linking a trigger to an object, the ''first'' mechanism selected is attached to the object, and the ''second'' is attached to the trigger. Unless the trigger itself will be submerged in magma (as could be the case with a {{l|pressure plate}}), only the first mechanism (attached to the object that will be submerged) need be magma-safe. If you do not have any magma-safe stones available, you can also work around floodgate-based flow control by using {{l|screw pump}}s to pump the magma over {{l|wall}}-barriers, or using water to form {{l|obsidian}} to plug flows and channel through them to reopen them (necessity and invention and all that).<br />
<br />
Constructions that resist magma are:<br />
<br />
* Constructions ({{l|Wall}}, {{l|Floor}}, {{l|Ramp}}, and {{l|Stairs}}) of any material can never melt or burn - there is nothing wrong with a {{l|wood}}en magma reservoir. Natural (but not constructed) {{l|ice}} walls/floors/ramps/stairs may melt however.<br />
* {{l|Fortification}}s will allow the passage of {{l|magma}}, but not the assorted magma creatures. Fire snakes are vermin, so they can spawn anywhere near the magma. They are not affected by fortifications, grates, or even solid walls. Also, there is a bug with fluids which may sometimes let magma (and water) push living things through barriers such as fortifications, bars and grates. {{l|Pump}}s are a positive defense, but can change the dynamics of fluid {{l|pressure}}.<br />
* If not submerged (that is, not opened to let magma flow over/past/around them), {{l|door}}s, {{l|floodgate}}s, and raised {{l|bridge}}s (provided that there is no magma on the space the bridge would occupy when lowered) of non-magma-safe stone or metal are safe. So long as they are just in contact with magma, only acting as a passive "wall", they are fine. If opened, they will melt.<br />
** Raised drawbridges have a notable exception, in that allowing magma to flow over the area that the bridge would normally occupy when lowered ''will'' cause the bridge's components to heat up and potentially melt.<br />
* All parts of a {{l|pump}}, except for the passable tile, provided that none of the components are made of wood.<br />
<br />
<!-- NEED TO RECHECK THIS!<br />
<br />
=== Glass ===<br />
{{l|Glass}} behaves oddly in regards to magma. Glass is, in itself, not magma safe; glass {{l|instrument}}s will melt in magma. However, glass {{l|furniture}} will not. So glass {{l|statue}}s, {{l|screw pump}}s, and {{l|floodgate}}s are all fine when submerged in magma. Forum link with experiments: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27423.msg333562#msg333562<br />
<br />
Glass barriers still require magma-proof mechanisms to operate without deconstructing.<br />
<br />
--><br />
<br />
== Game calculations ==<br />
In the game, magma's temperature is exactly 2,032°F, or about 1,111°C. This is also 12,000° {{l|Temperature scale|Urist}}.{{verify}}<br />
<br />
<br />
==Magma-safe material==<br />
<br />
The following materials will not melt when submerged in magma. Although true for any item/construction, it's worth specifically mentioning that this includes doors, hatches, floodgates, bridges, pumps and mechanisms.<br />
<br />
<!--Editors: For your convenience, a BLANK ROW TEMPLATE:<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type= |Matl= |Appear= |Temp= |Notes= }}<br />
<br />
--><br />
<br />
{{MS table head}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Alunite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=13,690°U (3722°F/2051°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Anhydrite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#ccc|#000}}|Temp=12,610°U (2642°F/1450°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Basalt}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|#|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#888|#000}}|Temp=12,160°U (2192°F/1200°C)|Notes=often found near/around volcanoes}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Bauxite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#800|#000}}|Temp=13,600°U (3632°F/2000°C)|Notes=dark red}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Calcite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|"|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=12,902°U (2934°F/1613°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Chert}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|&#61;|#880|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#880|#000}}|Temp=13,101°U (3133°F/1723°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Chromite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|&#61;|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#888|#000}}|Temp=13,645°U (3677°F/2026°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Dolomite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=16,507°U (6539°F/3619°C)|Notes=flux stone}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Gabbro}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|▒|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#888|#000}}|Temp=12,160°U (2192°F/1200°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Ilmenite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|.|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#888|#000}}|Temp=12,457°U (2489°F/1365°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Kaolinite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|&#61;|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#800|#000}}|Temp=13,150°U (3182°F/1751°C)|Notes=red}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Mica}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|v|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#888|#000}}|Temp=12,295°U (2327°F/1275°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Olivine}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|%|#080|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#080|#000}}|Temp=13,168°U (3200°F/1761°C)|Notes=green}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Orthoclase}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#ff0|#000}}|Temp=12,250°U (2282°F/1250°C)|Notes=yellow}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Periclase}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|,|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=15,040°U (5072°F/2803°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Petrified wood}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#f00|#000}}|Temp=12,970°U (3002°F/1650°C)|Notes=light red}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Pitchblende}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|*|#808|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#808|#000}}|Temp=12,070°U (2102°F/1149°C)|Notes=magenta}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Quartzite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=12,970°U (3002°F/1650°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Rutile}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|`|#808|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#808|#000}}|Temp=13,285°U (3214°F/1826°C)|Notes=magenta}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Sandstone}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|#|#880|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#880|#000}}|Temp=12,070°U (2102°F/1149°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Stone|Matl={{l|Talc}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|&#124;|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|•|#fff|#000}}|Temp=12,700°U (2732°F/1500°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Adamantine}}|Appear=|Temp=25,000°U (15,032°F/8333°C)|Notes=Highest value/utility material in game}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Iron}}|Appear=|Temp=12,768°U (2800°F/1538°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Nickel}}|Appear=|Temp=12,619°U (2651°F/1455°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Nickel silver}}|Appear=|Temp=12,619°U (2651°F/1455°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Pig iron}}|Appear=|Temp=12,106°U (2138°F/1170°C)|Notes=used in steel making process}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Platinum}}|Appear=|Temp=13,182°U (3214°F/1768°C)|Notes=High value metal}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Metal|Matl={{l|Steel}}|Appear=|Temp=12,718°U (2750°F/1510°C)|Notes=armour/weapons}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl={{l|Cassiterite}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#880|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#880|#000}}|Temp=12,025°U (2057°F/1124°C)|Notes=tin ore, used in bronze & pewter alloys}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl={{l|Galena}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#fff|#000}}|Temp=12,005°U (2037°F/1113°C)|Notes=lead/silver ore}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl={{l|Hematite}}<sup>3</sup>|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#800|#000}}|Temp=12,736°U (2768°F/1520°C)|Notes=iron ore<sup>3</sup>}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl={{l|Magnetite}}<sup>3</sup>|Appear={{Raw Tile|~|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#888|#000}}|Temp=12,768°U (2800°F/1538°C)|Notes=iron ore<sup>3</sup>}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl={{l|Native platinum}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#fff|#000}}|Temp=13,182°U (3214°F/1768°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Ore|Matl=''{{l|Sphalerite}}''<sup>4</sup>|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#888|#000}}|Temp=<s>''12,133°U (2165°F/1185°C)''</s>|Notes=zinc ore - '''''See Notes<sup>4</sup>'''''}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Special|Matl={{l|Raw adamantine}}|Appear={{Raw Tile|£|#0ff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|*|#0ff|#000}}|Temp=25,000°U (15,032°F/8333°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Leather|Matl={{l|Fire imp}}|Appear=|Temp=15,000°U (5032°F/2780°C)|Notes=}}<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Leather|Matl={{l|Dragon}}|Appear=|Temp=55,000°U (45032°F/25,044°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Bone|Matl={{l|Fire imp}}|Appear=|Temp=15,000°U (5032°F/2780°C)|Notes=}}<br />
{{MS table row|Type=Bone|Matl={{l|Dragon}}|Appear=|Temp=55,000°U (45032°F/25,044°C)|Notes=}}<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Notes:'''<br />
:1. Each stone is one of 16 {{L|color scheme|colors}} in the game. Different un-mined stone of the same color have a different symbol to distinguish between them. Once mined, the individual stones themselves can sometimes look identical if the color is the same. Use {{k|k}} to loo{{k|k}} at items or the terrain for specific information.<br />
<br />
:2. '''U<sup>o</sup>''' = degrees in [[Urist]], the measure of temperature within the Dwarf Fortress world. As far as is known, there is no functional difference between a material that melts at 12,005°U or 55,000°U - they are both equally "magma safe".<br />
<br />
:3. There are 3 iron ores in the game - of those three, note that only {{l|Limonite}} is ''not'' magma safe.<br />
<br />
:4. ''Sphalerite has "no" melting point, but '''boils''' at 12,133°U - further research is necessary in this context - use at your own risk for the time being. This is accurate for the actual rock, which sublimes at this temperature rather than having a liquid state, but how it behaves in Dwarf Fortress may be unclear.''<br />
''<br />
{{Magma FAQ}}<br />
[[Category:Physics]]<br />
{{Category|Magma safe materials}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Magma_safe_materials&diff=95591Category:Magma safe materials2010-04-19T03:53:35Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>Materials in this category are [[cv:magma safe|magma safe]].<br />
[[Category:Fortress mode]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Category&diff=95567Template:Category2010-04-19T02:23:33Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{documentation}}<br />
[[Category:Version templates|Category]]</noinclude><br />
<br />
<!--<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{#if:{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}|{{PAGENAME}}}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
/--><br />
<br />
<includeonly><br />
[[Category:{{#switch: {{NAMESPACE}}<br />
|23a<br />
|40d<br />
|DF2010 = {{NAMESPACE}}:<br />
|#default = <br />
}}{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
</includeonly></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Category&diff=95563Template:Category2010-04-19T02:03:42Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{documentation}}<br />
[[Category:Version templates|Category]]</noinclude><br />
<br />
<!--<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{#if:{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}|{{PAGENAME}}}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
/--><br />
<br />
<includeonly><br />
[[Category:{{#switch: {{NAMESPACE}}<br />
|23a<br />
|40d<br />
|DF2010 = {{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
|#default = {{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
}}]]<br />
</includeonly></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Soy/testbed&diff=95562User:Soy/testbed2010-04-19T02:03:08Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>Empty!<br />
<!--[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:{{#switch: {{NAMESPACE}}<br />
|23a<br />
|40d<br />
|DF2010 = {{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
|#default = {{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
}}]]<br />
<br />
/--></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Soy/testbed&diff=95561User:Soy/testbed2010-04-19T02:02:25Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>Empty!<br />
<!--[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]/--><br />
<br />
[[Category:{{#switch: {{NAMESPACE}}<br />
|23a<br />
|40d<br />
|DF2010 = {{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
|#default = {{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}<br />
}}]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Furniture&diff=95560Template:Furniture2010-04-19T01:56:31Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{| class="infobox" style="float: right; border: 1px solid #aaa; margin: 0 0 0.5em 0.5em; border-spacing: 0; width: 17em"<br />
|+ style="font-weight: bold" |{{{name|?}}}<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" | <br />
{|<br />
|-<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|<br />
{|<br />
|{{tile|{{{tile|?}}}|{{color2|{{{col|7}}}}}|{{color2|{{{bak|0}}}}}|2em}}<br />
|}<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Construction<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Materials<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Workshops<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" | Jobs<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|log|Wood}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Stone}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|metal bar|Metal}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Cloth}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leather}}<br /><br />}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpenter's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Mason's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Metalsmith's forge}}}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass furnace}}}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothier's shop}}<br />
* {{L|Leather works}}}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Masonry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Blacksmithing}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glassmaking}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothesmaking}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leatherworking}}<br /><br />}}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Rooms<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" style="padding: 0.25em" |<br />
{{{rooms|''None''}}}<br />
|}{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|Template = |#default={{Category|Furniture}}}}</includeonly><noinclude><br />
{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}<br />
==Usage==<br />
<pre>{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}</pre><br />
Adds <nowiki>[[Category:Furniture]]</nowiki> to the article. Use the "bak" tag to change the background color (e.g. bins, barrels; default background is black) and "col" for the foreground.<br />
[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Furniture&diff=95559Template:Furniture2010-04-19T01:55:44Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{| class="infobox" style="float: right; border: 1px solid #aaa; margin: 0 0 0.5em 0.5em; border-spacing: 0; width: 17em"<br />
|+ style="font-weight: bold" |{{{name|?}}}<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" | <br />
{|<br />
|-<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|<br />
{|<br />
|{{tile|{{{tile|?}}}|{{color2|{{{col|7}}}}}|{{color2|{{{bak|0}}}}}|2em}}<br />
|}<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Construction<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Materials<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Workshops<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" | Jobs<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|log|Wood}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Stone}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|metal bar|Metal}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Cloth}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leather}}<br /><br />}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpenter's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Mason's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Metalsmith's forge}}}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass furnace}}}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothier's shop}}<br />
* {{L|Leather works}}}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Masonry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Blacksmithing}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glassmaking}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothesmaking}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leatherworking}}<br /><br />}}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Rooms<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" style="padding: 0.25em" |<br />
{{{rooms|''None''}}}<br />
|}{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|Template = |#default={{Category|Furniture}}}}</includeonly><noinclude><br />
{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}<br />
==Usage==<br />
<pre>{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}</pre><br />
Adds <nowiki>[[Category:Furniture]]</nowiki> to the article. Use the "bak" tag to change the background color (e.g. bins, barrels; default background is black) and "col" for the foreground.<br />
</noinclude></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Furniture&diff=95558Template:Furniture2010-04-19T01:52:17Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{| class="infobox" style="float: right; border: 1px solid #aaa; margin: 0 0 0.5em 0.5em; border-spacing: 0; width: 17em"<br />
|+ style="font-weight: bold" |{{{name|?}}}<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" | <br />
{|<br />
|-<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|<br />
{|<br />
|{{tile|{{{tile|?}}}|{{color2|{{{col|7}}}}}|{{color2|{{{bak|0}}}}}|2em}}<br />
|}<br />
| style="width: 50%" |<br />
|}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Construction<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Materials<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" | Workshops<br />
! colspan="2" style="text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" | Jobs<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|log|Wood}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Stone}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|metal bar|Metal}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Cloth}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leather}}<br /><br />}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpenter's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Mason's workshop}}}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Metalsmith's forge}}}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glass furnace}}}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothier's shop}}<br />
* {{L|Leather works}}}}<br />
| colspan="2" style="padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |{{#switch:{{{wood}}}|#default=|y=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />|yes=<br />
* {{L|Carpentry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{stone}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Masonry}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{metal}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Blacksmithing}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{glass}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Glassmaking}}<br /><br />}}{{#switch:{{{cloth}}}|#default=|y|yes=<br />
* {{L|Clothesmaking}}<br /><br /><br />
* {{L|Leatherworking}}<br /><br />}}<br />
|-<br />
! colspan="6" style="border-top: 1px solid #aaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaa; background: #eee; padding: 0.1em 0.25em" | Rooms<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="6" style="padding: 0.25em" |<br />
{{{rooms|''None''}}}<br />
|}{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}|#default={{Category|Furniture}}|Template=}}</includeonly><noinclude><br />
{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}<br />
==Usage==<br />
<pre>{{furniture|name=Bed<br />
|tile=Θ|col=6<br />
|wood=y<br />
|rooms=<br />
* {{L|Bedroom}}<br />
* {{L|Barracks}}<br />
* {{L|Dormitory}}<br />
}}</pre><br />
Adds <nowiki>[[Category:Furniture]]</nowiki> to the article. Use the "bak" tag to change the background color (e.g. bins, barrels; default background is black) and "col" for the foreground.<br />
</noinclude></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Guides&diff=95556Category:40d:Guides2010-04-19T01:41:05Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Guides| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Sedimentary_Stone_Layers&diff=95549Category:40d:Sedimentary Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:34:24Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Sedimentary Stone Layers '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:40d:Stone Layers|Sedimentary Stone Layers]]<br />
[[Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Metamorphic_Stone_Layers&diff=95548Category:40d:Metamorphic Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:33:15Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Metamorphic Stone Layers '</p>
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<div>[[Category:40d:Stone Layers|Metamorphic Stone Layers]]<br />
[[Category:Metamorphic Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Ore&diff=95547Category:40d:Ore2010-04-19T01:32:07Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Ore '</p>
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<div>[[Category:40d:Stone|Ore]]<br />
[[Category:Ore| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Igneous_Intrusive_Stone_Layers&diff=95546Category:40d:Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:30:48Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div>[[Category:40d:Stone Layers|Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers]]<br />
[[Category:Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Igneous_Extrusive_Stone_Layers&diff=95545Category:40d:Igneous Extrusive Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:30:10Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Igneous Extrusive Stone Layers '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:40d:Stone Layers|Igneous Extrusive Stone Layers]]<br />
[[Category:Igneous Extrusive Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Economic_Stone&diff=95544Category:40d:Economic Stone2010-04-19T01:28:51Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Economic Stone '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:40d:Stone|Economic Stone]]<br />
[[Category:Economic Stone| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Stone_Layers&diff=95542Category:40d:Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:25:58Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Igneous_Intrusive_Stone_Layers&diff=95527Category:40d:Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:14:37Z<p>Soy: Created page with 'Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:40d:Stone|Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers]]<br />
[[Category:Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:Stone_Layers&diff=95526Category:Stone Layers2010-04-19T01:13:30Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>When picking a starting location, you will be shown what layers of stone are prominent in the area you have selected, and this will give you a clue on what kind of [[ore]] to expect, if [[flux]], [[sand]] or some other special feature is available.<br />
<br />
For more information, see the article on [[stone layers]]. (This page is for the stone layers "category".)<br />
<br />
[[Category:Stone| ]]<br />
[[Category:World]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:40d:Stone&diff=95524Category:40d:Stone2010-04-19T01:11:52Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Stone| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Category:23a:Dwarves&diff=95424Category:23a:Dwarves2010-04-19T00:44:37Z<p>Soy: Created page with ' '</p>
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<div>[[Category:Dwarves| ]]</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Category&diff=95306Template:Category2010-04-18T16:10:19Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div><noinclude>{{documentation}}<br />
[[Category:Version templates|Category]]</noinclude><br />
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[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
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<includeonly><br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}|{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]<br />
</includeonly></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Category&diff=95305Template:Category2010-04-18T16:08:32Z<p>Soy: </p>
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<div><noinclude>{{documentation}}<br />
[[Category:Version templates|Category]]</noinclude><br />
<br />
<!--<br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{#if:{{{2}}}|{{{2}}}|{{PAGENAME}}}}]]<br />
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<includeonly><br />
[[Category:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{{1}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{2|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}]]<br />
</includeonly></div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31:Craftsdwarf&diff=95303v0.31:Craftsdwarf2010-04-18T16:00:53Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
<br />
'''Craftsdwarf''' is a category profession relating to the creation of {{L|craft|crafts}} and {{L|clothing}} of various materials. <br />
<br />
An adult {{L|dwarf}} whose best skill is in this category, and who has accumulated ranks in other crafting skills (exactly how much is not clear) will be known as a craftsdwarf. If a dwarf has experience in only one craftsdwarf skill he will be known by his or her highest skill.<br />
<br />
<br />
The craftsdwarf skills are:<br />
<br />
{{Skill Box|Craftsdwarf|#00f|#00f|<br />
* {{L|Bone carver}}<br />
* {{L|Clothier}}<br />
* {{L|Glassmaker}}<br />
* {{L|Leatherworker}}<br />
* {{L|Stone crafter}}<br />
* {{L|Weaver}}<br />
* {{L|Wood crafter}}<br />
* {{L|Strand extractor}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Category|Professions}}<br />
{{Category|Jobs}}<br />
<br />
{{skills}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Leatherworker&diff=9530240d:Leatherworker2010-04-18T16:00:00Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Skill<br />
| color = #00f<br />
| skill = Leatherworker<br />
| profession = {{L|Craftsdwarf}}<br />
| job name = Leatherworking<br />
| tasks =<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|Craft}}s<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|Armor}}<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|clothes}}<br />
* Construct {{L|Leather}} {{L|Bag}}<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|Waterskin}}<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|Backpack}}<br />
* Make {{L|Leather}} {{L|Quiver}}<br />
* Sew {{L|Leather}} {{L|Image}}<br />
| workshop = {{L|Leather Works}}<br />
}}<br />
'''Leatherworker''' is used to make all of the leather goods at a {{L|leather works}}. It is also used to sew {{L|leather images}} onto objects.<br />
<br />
The leatherworker skill is also used to make leather craft goods at a {{L|craftsdwarf's workshop}} and {{L|armor}} at leather works.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
*{{L|Meat industry}}<br />
<br />
{{Skills}}<br />
{{Category|Jobs}}</div>Soyhttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Fish_dissector&diff=9530140d:Fish dissector2010-04-18T15:59:36Z<p>Soy: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{av}}<br />
{{Skill<br />
| color = #008<br />
| skill = Fish Dissector<br />
| profession = {{L|Fishery worker|Fishery Worker}}<br />
| job name = Fish Dissection<br />
| tasks =<br />
* Extract from a raw fish<br />
| workshop = {{L|Fishery}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A '''fish dissector''' is a {{L|Dwarf|dwarf}} who can make {{L|Extract|extracts}} from certain {{L|Fish|fish}} caught in {{L|Animal trap|animal trap}}s, such as the {{L|Moghopper|moghopper}}.<br />
<br />
There is little use other than as {{L|Trade|trade}} goods for fish extracts currently, which makes {{L|Migrant|migrant}} fish dissectors excellent candidates for your {{L|Military|military}} or for any other minor tasks.<br />
<br />
{{Skill Box|Fishery Worker|#228|#448|<br />
* {{L|Fish cleaner}}<br />
* {{L|Fish dissector}}<br />
* {{L|Fisherdwarf}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Skills}}<br />
{{category|Jobs}}</div>Soy