Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Cow

2009-05-19T22:04:46Z

Smartmo: /* Farming Advice */ addendum

==Husbandry queries==
Is it possible to raise cattle? - I have a bull and a cow - will they eventually mate? do i have to cage them or smth? there doesnt seem to be a related workshop (except the butcher 'f course ;)) or skill ? is there an article covering this? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:39, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah the cow will have some calves sooner or later.--[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)
::They ''should be'' [[milk]]able at a [[farmers workshop]] but it seems it is not implemented yet. Do you really want to run a dairy farm, or a [[Dwarf Fortress:About|dwarven fortress]]?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 22:01, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Yes, it is not implemented yet. My question however was aimed at meat. But actually i would '''love''' to run a dairy ''inside'' a dwarven fortress ;) imagine the happy thoughts of Tobul drinking her first cup of home-made cow milk she so loves.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:41, 9 February 2008 (EST)
:I guess a related question is, does the game follow real-world herd management: 1 bull can mate with about 30 cows, or as the article currently implies do you need "breeding pairs" (which actually makes expanding a herd a quite difficult task).
:So far it is hard to monitor this because you don't know which is the mother cow and if you cage animals they just don't breed. And without caging them, it is difficult to keep animals from wandering over the whole map (mine seem to spend most of their time in my dining rooms though... yum yum cat tallow biscuits surrounded by the aroma of cow shit!)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:13, 15 February 2008 (EST)
::One male is enough. I had twenty cows popping calves almost simultaneously (inn a couple of days), with only one bull.
I bet that bulls will be milkable for few versions after milking cows will be implemented... --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 00:15, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

:: Placing a 3x3 grid of chains/ropes and then chaining a bull in the center tile, surrounded by cows, is an excellent husbandry system. I refer to this as my Meat Harem. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:17, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:::Is proximity important? People have described animals getting pregnant despite being alone behind a locked door. Alhough the rope corral system in general is probably the best way to go.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:42, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::: I've never actually checked. Although I was using my lone female horse as a chained sentry on the path to my depot (seven squares from the depot), and she's given birth. I'm assuming that's from the caravan horses. *avoids making obvious jokes* --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::: I started a game with 1 female one-humped camel, and two female + 1 male two-humped camels. After 1.5 years, the two-humped camels have each given birth twice or three times, while I still have only a single one-humped camel. I guess breeding works as soon as you have a male (not necessarily yours) somewhere on the map. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:44, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::: It has to be slightly more complex than that. Otherwise a tame female camel on a map with wild camels will give birth. *checks* No, my starting camel is male (I remember reading somewhere that this is always the case). Has anyone tried this? Is anyone willing to try? If I get a female camel, I'll cage my male and stake the female out and see what happens. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:55, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:::::: ummm i walled up a puppy. she then grew up and had puppies of her own - and the only exit was up about 5 levels of vertical well-shaft [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]]

::I have had various critters (horses, muskoxen, camels and a dromedary - that's a 1 humped camel, fyi ) all get pregnant by wild critters that never crossed the moat, while the bridge was up. But just in case, I tested this theory by breeding and buying until I had 10 adult female muskoxen, culled /all/ male muskoxen, and then all males born for the next three years. I continued to have wild muskoxen come into the area (but never across the bridge, down three flights of stairs and into the walled up chamber where the females, a butcher and a large food stockpile were kept)... I continued to have muskox calves born in mass, spring and fall, for four more years. It would probably have lasted longer but I got bored with the test. Also, my butcher finally ran out of booze and died of thirst. --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:I haven't tested it yet, but I think the [MILKABLE:33333] tag is what lets the purring maggot be milked. I keep meaning to put it on the other critters and find out but... alas, I am forgetful. Perhaps if someone else could confirm?? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Trading ==

Is it possible to trade for a bull? The liaison screen only lets you request "cow", so I assume this will also (randomly) include bulls?
I started with one female cow, and managed to trade for another. Then one of my cows gave birth (mated with a caravan bull perhaps?) - to two happy, healthy... ''female'' calves. Now I've just traded for ''another'' female cow. At the moment all I can do is keep them tied up in my paddock, and enjoy their haunting moos... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:36, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
:I think it says in one of the tutorials, and I've found it to be the case, that animals selected at embark alternate gender. So, if you get two cows, one will be a bull. If you get four, two will be, and so on. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:57, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
::Yes, but embarkation cows are '''expensive'''! I was operating under the assumption that animals alternated gender throughout the game, not just during initial selection, which from memory seemed to be the case - until that particular game! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 19:23, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

::When traders come through, you can use the unit screen to look and see if they've brought any non-verminous pets for you to purchase. They should show up just like they would if they belonged to you "Stray bull (tame)" or "stray dog (tame)" except that instead of saying "tame" in the far right collumn, it says "merchant". Those are the creatures the merchant has for sale, as opposed to the ones they're using to haul their stuff. Unfortunately, you can't (z)oom in on a caged creature to determine it's gender.
::Alternatively, in the trade window, when you look at the Cow cage(tin), and examine it the way you would to see if the trader is selling red dyed cloth or emerald, it will show if it is a cow or a bull. Sadly, things like cats, which have the same name for both genders... well, it's pot's luck. You can always turn around and sell it again if it's not what you wanted. Or, you know, slaughter it. By year 3 I usually have a cage with 6 or 7 female cats in it just waiting to be traded. --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Cow ages? ==

What's the age a calf must become to grow into a cow or bull? I've read the .txt but I can't find a [CHILD] or [BABY] token.
:They have the [CHILD:1] token, so I think they go straight from calves to adults when they turn 1 year old. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:50, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

== Smelting Cows? ==
I've heard the phrase tossed about, can you actually pop cows out of the smelter? How does that work? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 21:55, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
: I ''think'' that's only meant to be humorous, but there are a number of things you can pop out of the smelter with a bit of editing (See the [[Cheating#Make_Stone_Into_Logs|stone-to-logs cheat]] for more details). I want to say that cows, being living beings, are unsmeltable... although again, could be wrong. I'm not at a computer with DF installed at the moment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:56, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
::They come out as vermin, because you make a cow item. Vermin are items, that can teleport.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Even Earlier than Autumn ==
My cows popped out babies in late summer. Seems my bulls have been busy. Worthy of a page update? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 19:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Farming Advice ==

Hopefully I'll find a better page to put this but for now, I'll just leave it here.

Only one bull is necessary for breeding, regardless of how many females you have. Which means any males beyond the first serve no purpose (but read the second to last paragraph). Therefore it would be a great idea to slaughter all males, but keep the females around for breeding. No more wondering which cows to kill and which to keep alive!

Also, the male doesn't need to be anywhere near the females to impregnate them. You could lock them in a vault (see the below paragraph) and they will still impregnate the females anyway. NOTE: While distance and/or walls will not prevent pregnancy, putting either the female in question or all available males into a cage WILL prevent it.

While multiple males may not have any (non food related) use, you may not want to slaughter them if they are an immigrant's pet, or just in case the designated male dies. To prevent the latter, I would suggest locking him in an vault far below your fortress, then wall him in, make an underground moat around him, just do whatever you can to make him unreachable.

I'm going to go check on all of this to make sure I got it right. Will edit this once I do. Also, should I make a Livestock page with this on it? After all, this applies to all tamed animals, and not just cows.

EDIT: silly me, I forgot to sign it. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Well I can't seem to find where I found this information, but I know it's around here somewhere. If someone else can confirm (or deny) it, I would be most appreciative. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 02:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:Which information? You have quite a lot there. I do believe you have it all correct.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Oh, good. I just know eventually I'm gonna post something like this and get it all wrong. It's just a matter of time. Anyway, like I said, this applies to more than cows, so there must be somewhere I can put this that's more appropriate. Are there any pages about breeding in general? A search for "breeding" just gets me to the meat industry page, which is looking pretty cluttered as it is.--[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Cow

2009-05-19T21:59:23Z

Smartmo: /* Farming Advice */

==Husbandry queries==
Is it possible to raise cattle? - I have a bull and a cow - will they eventually mate? do i have to cage them or smth? there doesnt seem to be a related workshop (except the butcher 'f course ;)) or skill ? is there an article covering this? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:39, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah the cow will have some calves sooner or later.--[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)
::They ''should be'' [[milk]]able at a [[farmers workshop]] but it seems it is not implemented yet. Do you really want to run a dairy farm, or a [[Dwarf Fortress:About|dwarven fortress]]?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 22:01, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Yes, it is not implemented yet. My question however was aimed at meat. But actually i would '''love''' to run a dairy ''inside'' a dwarven fortress ;) imagine the happy thoughts of Tobul drinking her first cup of home-made cow milk she so loves.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:41, 9 February 2008 (EST)
:I guess a related question is, does the game follow real-world herd management: 1 bull can mate with about 30 cows, or as the article currently implies do you need "breeding pairs" (which actually makes expanding a herd a quite difficult task).
:So far it is hard to monitor this because you don't know which is the mother cow and if you cage animals they just don't breed. And without caging them, it is difficult to keep animals from wandering over the whole map (mine seem to spend most of their time in my dining rooms though... yum yum cat tallow biscuits surrounded by the aroma of cow shit!)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:13, 15 February 2008 (EST)
::One male is enough. I had twenty cows popping calves almost simultaneously (inn a couple of days), with only one bull.
I bet that bulls will be milkable for few versions after milking cows will be implemented... --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 00:15, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

:: Placing a 3x3 grid of chains/ropes and then chaining a bull in the center tile, surrounded by cows, is an excellent husbandry system. I refer to this as my Meat Harem. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:17, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:::Is proximity important? People have described animals getting pregnant despite being alone behind a locked door. Alhough the rope corral system in general is probably the best way to go.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:42, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::: I've never actually checked. Although I was using my lone female horse as a chained sentry on the path to my depot (seven squares from the depot), and she's given birth. I'm assuming that's from the caravan horses. *avoids making obvious jokes* --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::: I started a game with 1 female one-humped camel, and two female + 1 male two-humped camels. After 1.5 years, the two-humped camels have each given birth twice or three times, while I still have only a single one-humped camel. I guess breeding works as soon as you have a male (not necessarily yours) somewhere on the map. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:44, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::: It has to be slightly more complex than that. Otherwise a tame female camel on a map with wild camels will give birth. *checks* No, my starting camel is male (I remember reading somewhere that this is always the case). Has anyone tried this? Is anyone willing to try? If I get a female camel, I'll cage my male and stake the female out and see what happens. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:55, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:::::: ummm i walled up a puppy. she then grew up and had puppies of her own - and the only exit was up about 5 levels of vertical well-shaft [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]]

::I have had various critters (horses, muskoxen, camels and a dromedary - that's a 1 humped camel, fyi ) all get pregnant by wild critters that never crossed the moat, while the bridge was up. But just in case, I tested this theory by breeding and buying until I had 10 adult female muskoxen, culled /all/ male muskoxen, and then all males born for the next three years. I continued to have wild muskoxen come into the area (but never across the bridge, down three flights of stairs and into the walled up chamber where the females, a butcher and a large food stockpile were kept)... I continued to have muskox calves born in mass, spring and fall, for four more years. It would probably have lasted longer but I got bored with the test. Also, my butcher finally ran out of booze and died of thirst. --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:I haven't tested it yet, but I think the [MILKABLE:33333] tag is what lets the purring maggot be milked. I keep meaning to put it on the other critters and find out but... alas, I am forgetful. Perhaps if someone else could confirm?? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Trading ==

Is it possible to trade for a bull? The liaison screen only lets you request "cow", so I assume this will also (randomly) include bulls?
I started with one female cow, and managed to trade for another. Then one of my cows gave birth (mated with a caravan bull perhaps?) - to two happy, healthy... ''female'' calves. Now I've just traded for ''another'' female cow. At the moment all I can do is keep them tied up in my paddock, and enjoy their haunting moos... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:36, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
:I think it says in one of the tutorials, and I've found it to be the case, that animals selected at embark alternate gender. So, if you get two cows, one will be a bull. If you get four, two will be, and so on. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:57, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
::Yes, but embarkation cows are '''expensive'''! I was operating under the assumption that animals alternated gender throughout the game, not just during initial selection, which from memory seemed to be the case - until that particular game! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 19:23, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

::When traders come through, you can use the unit screen to look and see if they've brought any non-verminous pets for you to purchase. They should show up just like they would if they belonged to you "Stray bull (tame)" or "stray dog (tame)" except that instead of saying "tame" in the far right collumn, it says "merchant". Those are the creatures the merchant has for sale, as opposed to the ones they're using to haul their stuff. Unfortunately, you can't (z)oom in on a caged creature to determine it's gender.
::Alternatively, in the trade window, when you look at the Cow cage(tin), and examine it the way you would to see if the trader is selling red dyed cloth or emerald, it will show if it is a cow or a bull. Sadly, things like cats, which have the same name for both genders... well, it's pot's luck. You can always turn around and sell it again if it's not what you wanted. Or, you know, slaughter it. By year 3 I usually have a cage with 6 or 7 female cats in it just waiting to be traded. --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Cow ages? ==

What's the age a calf must become to grow into a cow or bull? I've read the .txt but I can't find a [CHILD] or [BABY] token.
:They have the [CHILD:1] token, so I think they go straight from calves to adults when they turn 1 year old. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:50, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

== Smelting Cows? ==
I've heard the phrase tossed about, can you actually pop cows out of the smelter? How does that work? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 21:55, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
: I ''think'' that's only meant to be humorous, but there are a number of things you can pop out of the smelter with a bit of editing (See the [[Cheating#Make_Stone_Into_Logs|stone-to-logs cheat]] for more details). I want to say that cows, being living beings, are unsmeltable... although again, could be wrong. I'm not at a computer with DF installed at the moment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:56, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
::They come out as vermin, because you make a cow item. Vermin are items, that can teleport.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Even Earlier than Autumn ==
My cows popped out babies in late summer. Seems my bulls have been busy. Worthy of a page update? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 19:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Farming Advice ==

Hopefully I'll find a better page to put this but for now, I'll just leave it here.

Only one bull is necessary for breeding, regardless of how many females you have. Which means any males beyond the first serve no purpose (but read the second to last paragraph). Therefore it would be a great idea to slaughter all males, but keep the females around for breeding. No more wondering which cows to kill and which to keep alive!

Also, the male doesn't need to be anywhere near the females to impregnate them. You could lock them in a vault (see the below paragraph) and they will still impregnate the females anyway. NOTE: While distance and/or walls will not prevent pregnancy, putting either the female in question or all available males into a cage WILL prevent it.

While multiple males may not have any (non food related) use, you may not want to slaughter them if they are an immigrant's pet, or just in case the designated male dies. To prevent the latter, I would suggest locking him in an vault far below your fortress, then wall him in, make an underground moat around him, just do whatever you can to make him unreachable.

I'm going to go check on all of this to make sure I got it right. Will edit this once I do. Also, should I make a Livestock page with this on it? After all, this applies to all tamed animals, and not just cows.

EDIT: silly me, I forgot to sign it. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Well I can't seem to find where I found this information, but I know it's around here somewhere. If someone else can confirm (or deny) it, I would be most appreciative. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 02:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:Which information? You have quite a lot there. I do believe you have it all correct.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Oh, good. I just know eventually I'm gonna post something like this and get it all wrong. It's just a matter of time. Anyway, like I said, this applies to more than cows, so there must be somewhere I can put this that's more appropriate. Are there any pages about breeding in general?--[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Planepacked

2009-05-19T16:29:15Z

Smartmo: /* Please don't delete it */

== Please don't delete it ==
I removed Karl's code that said "del|Artifact are randomly created, so it's not useful"

I think we should let this one go without deleting it. This is too epic, and I'm usually not one of the people who care about that. Boatmurdered has a stub on here, so I say we should leave this one go until the day someone sees the creation of an even more epic artifact.

And in one sense it is useful. This is the standard by which all other artifacts shall be measured. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
:It is the space and time warping, dimension twisting, utterly warped standard. So, totally normal for dwarves. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:24, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, this deserves it's own page. Hell, if it were up to me, I'd give it several pages. That's how epic it is. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

:Seriously? Is a wiki for personal glory, or information? What "information" is this? That glitches can happen? I'm not saying delete it, but don't pretend it somehow "deserves" a spot any more than any game log does. Like boatmurdered. If every "epic" fortress and artifact and episode and story and dwarf and battle had their own page... yeah. It's unique, and somehow it demonstrates... something, I guess - but other than that it is kinda pointless.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::'personal glory'? Whose person? The article is about Planepacked anyway, not its originator despite your jadedness about the matter, and really, it could have happened to anyone. I really don't understand the attitude that fun has no place in the wiki. Obviously we don't have or want every "epic" artifact and it is not your kvetching that keeps them out, have a little sense of proportion. This is not an academic paper! This is a wiki about a video game for which we're sharing secrets and stories and enjoying the hell out of, and the game highlights you complain about are a good portion of what makes the wiki actually worth reading and the game worth playing to anyone who hasn't yet. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:40, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Honestly, this is a web site about Dwarf Fortress. Whether it's useful or not, [[Boatmurdered]] '''does''' deserve it's own page. And so does this. It would be ridiculous and pointless to try and keep a wiki of Dwarf Fortress free of humor, and pages like this. -[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Description ==

http://bartabox.banquise.net/df/planepacked.txt

:Anyone else amused by the name? I mean, it's just plain packed with every concevable ornamentation. Except cheese. - to avoid the pain, I shall attempt to remain nameless. (unsigned by '''[[User:Teres Draconis|Teres Draconis]]''')

== Good Lord ==

It has a picture of itself on it. The damn thing's fractal.
[[User:Lymojo|Lymojo]] 05:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC) Lymojo

:It doesn't have just one picture of itself on it... it has itself carved on it 73 times! Almost all of these carving are in limestone, too. It could very well be fractal. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== If anyone's interested ... ==
* 416 engravings
* 224 mentions of Limestone
* 197 mentions of Magnetite
* 172 mentions of Dwarf
* 73 self references
* 65 mentions of Limonite
* 41 mentions of Toads
* 41 mentions of Ascension
* 40 mentions of Foundation
* 30 mentions of Goblin
* 16 mentions of Gyspum
* 15 mentions of Killing
* 12 mentions of Abduction
* 8 mentions of Kobold
* 8 mentions of Donkey
* 7 mentions of Mountains
* 6 mentions of Malachite
* 6 mentions of barrels
* 4 mentions of Steel
* 4 mentions of a Thin Cross, 1 of a Tall Cross
* 4 mentions of Dimpledflags, the Iron Hatch Cover
* 3 mentions of a Shining Sun, 1 of a Blazing Sun
* 3 mentions of Cave Lobster
* 2 mentions of Native Platinum
* 2 mentions of Oaks
* 2 mentions of Human
* 1 mention of Orthoclase
* 1 mention of Native Gold
* 1 mention of Pig Iron
* 1 mention of Dog Leather
* 1 mention of Brown Jasper

And probably some I missed. [[User:Mraedis|Mraedis]] 11:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Bat

2009-05-17T19:54:18Z

Smartmo: added note about swarms

'''Bats''' are [[vermin]]s living in [[chasm]]s in non-freezing [[biome]]s. They do not eat your [[food]] but they can cause unhappy [[thought]]s to some [[dwarves]]. They can appear in swarms, so if you have [[Cat|cats]], be prepared for a gigantic pile of bat [[Refuse|remains]].

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:BAT]
[NAME:bat:bats:bat]
[TILE:249][COLOR:0:0:1]
[VERMIN_GROUNDER][FREQUENCY:100][VERMIN_HATEABLE]
[FLIER]
[SMALL_REMAINS][NO_WINTER]
[SPEED:400]
[PETVALUE:30][NATURAL][PET]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[PREFSTRING:haunting cries]
[NOCTURNAL]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[BIOME:NOT_FREEZING]
[TRIGGERABLE_GROUP:50:100]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:250:500]
[MUNDANE]
}}

[[Category:Vermin]]

40d Talk:Crop

2009-05-17T18:05:40Z

Smartmo: /* Seasons and Cavernous flora */ new section

== Winter crops ==
Delving into the raws, it seems some plants can grow in winter. Muck Roots, for instance. We'll need to update the chart to allow this. The chart will, in general, need some work. For instance, Quarry Bushes can only be cooked after they've been processed; how should that be put on the chart? This page can easily be filled in from the raws, but only after the chart is made more comprehensive... [[User:Fieari|Fieari]] 03:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
*Stuff like Quarry Bush Leaves can just go in the "Other Uses" column.

== Standardization of individual crop pages ==

I thought the previous wiki had great entries for the individual crops. How can we get the sidebar to appear just like the last wiki?

We should standardize the arrangement of information for the individual crops so that readers can easily obtain information as it is presented in a consistent manner. I think we should also include the basic value of each crop and how it can be multiplied.
--[[User:Rockjianrock|Rockjianrock]] 11:02, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Categorized Crops ==

How useful would it be to have a list of crop sorted by standard usage? From all the plants in game, we can easily figure out a few subgroups:

Edible raw (fruits/vegetables? can also be cooked unprocessed)
*Plump helmet
*Muck root
*Bloated tuber
*Prickle berry
*Wild strawberry
*Rat weed
*Fisher berry
*Sun berry

Clothing
*Pig tail
*Rope reed

Flour/Sugars
*Cave wheat
*Longland grass
*Whip vine
*Sweet pod (a special case, has its own workshop action to make syrup)

Leaves (not brewable)
*Quarry bush

Dyes (generally not brewable)
*Dimple cup
*Blade weed
*Hide root
*Sliver barb (also a special case, as it can be brewed. otherwise the same)

Alchemy? (not brewable)
*Kobold bulb
*Valley herb (can be cooked raw?)

I find this list more useful for making complex stockpiles or workflows.. Whether you care if the seeds must be planted underground or above ground, it's a property of the seed stockpile anyway. Note that "cookable" or "brewable" is not a group itself but a simple yes/no flag, but usually a common property of an entire group. Too bad we can't make template stockpiles ;)--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 13:35, 12 January 2008 (EST)

:The easiest way to do that is by having an article for each crop with (say) [[:Category:Dye crops]] included in the relevant articles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:39, 12 January 2008 (EST)

==Values==
Plump helmets have a value of 4, no? 2 (for being a plant) * 2 (plump helmet value)

Since the brew column uses the value of a single plant, brewed, it would make sense to show the total value of a single plant before brewing, rather than the material multiplier from the raws.

Also, since 5 units of syrup is produced from one sweet pod, shouldn't the value of syrup be listed as 100 instead of 20?

--[[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 16:04, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bloated Tubers grow in ''what?'' ==

How is a dry wetland possible? Are the wet/dry designations referring to whether or not the plant grows next to bodies of water? Might want to clarify that. If so, do aquifers directly below the surface make tiles "wet?" – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]

:Almost makes one wonder if that table came from DF2D. Research will have to be done on that <_< (PS: remember to sign your edits) --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:05, 19 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, the matgloss ''does'' say [DRY][BIOME:ANY_WETLAND]. We do need to know what exactly [DRY] means. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:40, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::Oh, here we go: [[Plant tokens]] --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Crops Table ==

Quick question regarding the nice and shiny table - is the heading row meant to be blacked out or is it some settign on my pc? --[[User:Ustio|Ustio]] 06:29, 20 November 2008 (EST)

What browser are you using? It's a simple bgcolor attribute on the row; that should work fine but I can replace it with a style if not - what does it do now? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Internet Explorer 6 (at work shhhhhhh) - whatever chnage you made worked a treat (I'd have made a change but my wikifu is sub-par--[[User:Ustio|Ustio]] 11:08, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Can't grow blade weed ==

For some reason I seem unable to grow it. Is there something I'm missing? I have seeds and an above-ground plot which is capable of growing the following: – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Rpglover64|Rpglover64]]

*Whip Vines
*Hide root
*Rope reeds
*Fisher berries
*Rat weed
*Longland grass
*Wild strawberries
*Prickle berries
:Check the season. "a", "b", "c", "d". [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:48, 18 February 2009 (EST) ▲ Sign your posts! You also may not have any of it! Check for it. 20:54, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Checked each season; the list doesn't change. Checked stocks; I have 20 blade weed seeds.

Shouldn't neither of these two matter, as according to this wiki, blade weed is a season round crop, and you still have the option to plant something even though you don't have the seeds?

:[[User:Rpglover64|Rpglover64]] 01:26, 19 February 2009 (EST)

I had the same problem as you, but my fort files got corrupted and I had to start a new one. I'll check and see if I can plant it.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I know I'm a few months late on this, but in case anyone else has this problem, try moving the selector down to the bottom selection, and hit down again. It should have a continuation of that list. This has happened to me before, so it may be the problem here. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 17:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Why does the page look so bad?? ==

There seems to be a problem with the stuff on the page, and all the pictures are chunks of words. Some plants also seem to be missing.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:There's a lot of pages like that because the wiki has been having script issues. There's some discussion about it on the main page's talk page. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Seasons and Cavernous flora ==

Does it seem strange to anyone else how '''ALL''' plantable outside crops can be planted year-round, while there's only one underground crop with that capability? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If you're bugged by this as much as I am, you can just change the raws. All I've done so far is make all subterranean crops plantable all year. Also, I may change most or all outside crops in my raws to be non-winter. Hopefully you guys can help find a more realistic planting pattern. Feedback, please. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 18:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Crop

2009-05-17T17:57:07Z

Smartmo: /* Can grow blade weed */

40d:Kitchen

2009-05-17T14:16:50Z

Smartmo: /* Drawbacks of prepared meals */ renamed

{{workshop|name=Kitchen|key=z|job=[[Cooking]]
|construction=
1 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Cooking]]
|use=
* [[Alcohol]]
* [[Meat]]
* [[Fish]]
* [[Flour]]
* [[Food]]
* [[Seeds]]
* [[Dwarven sugar]]
* [[Dwarven syrup]]
* [[Tallow]]
* [[Fat]]
* [[Plants]]
|production=
* Prepared meal
* [[Tallow]]
}}

A '''Kitchen''' is a [[workshop]] used by a [[cook]]. The cook uses this [[workshop]] primarily to combine base ingredients ([[meat]], [[plump helmet]]s, etc.) into prepared [[food]]. It is also used to render [[fat]] into [[tallow]].

== Prepared meals ==

On the Kitchen submenu of the [[status|Overall Status]] screen ({{key|z}}), you can specify which foods the kitchen is allowed to cook (and also which plants the [[still]] is allowed to brew). Blue means "cook this food"; red means "do not cook".

There are three grades of meals you can prepare at a kitchen:

* '''Easy''' (biscuit) requires two cookable items.
* '''Fine''' (stew) requires three cookable items.
* '''Lavish''' (roast) requires four cookable items.

The items to be cooked do not have to be different: for instance, a cook might combine two plump helmet spawn into a stack of two "plump helmet spawn biscuits", or four spawn into four "plump helmet spawn roasts". The amount of food produced always equals the total number of food items used.

If large stacks of food are used as the ingredients, a large stack of meals will be produced. For example, 22 "Minced cave fish roasts" could be created from "minced cave fish [5], minced [[turtle]], minced [[dwarven wine]] [14], and minced turtle [2]".

Prepared meals do not produce any byproducts such as [[seed]]s, [[shell]]s, or [[bone]]s when cooked or eaten. This makes them ideal for placement in dining rooms located far away from your main population because food and refuse haulers will not have to trek long distances to retrieve the seeds or bones left after a meal, and a single enormous meal stack can feed several dwarves for a year or more.

==Rotting==

The only problem with prepared meals is that if they are not stored properly they can quickly rot, effectively rendering their preparation a waste of time and resources. Currently, prepared food stacks of 10 or less can be stored in a barrel, ensuring their long-lasting preservation. Stacks greater than 10 cannot be stored in barrels. Often these large, lavish meals are left in the kitchen where vermin quickly bring about contamination and spoil. Care must be taken to ensure larger meals do not putresce in this manner. Designated food haulers may help prevent this problem. Prepared meals will not rot in a food stockpile, even outside of a barrel.

==Value of a prepared meal==

Regardless of the type of meal you produce, a stack of prepared meals has a base value of 10 for each meal in the stack, multiplied by the quality rating of the preparation quality. However, the final value of a stack of meals is highly variable because it is so strongly influenced by the quality of the ingredients and the size of the ingredient stacks. The [[quality]] designator shown is not taken from the preparation results, but from the best quality of any one ingredient. The value added by the preparation can be a small fraction of the total value of the meal when expensive or exceptionally-prepared ingredients go into the meal. [[Meat]] from animals with high [[animal material multiplier|MODVALUE]], processed plants that generate large stacks, or luxury food items like [[cheese]] are all ingredients that can cause a stack of prepared meals to have a surprisingly high value.

Some examples:

===≡Dwarven wheat flour roast [33]≡===

This is a stack of 33 well-prepared Dwarven wheat flour roast. The ingredients are exceptionally minced Plump helmet, well-minced deer meat, superiorly minced Quarry bush Leaves and minced Dwarven wheat flour.

Total value: 3102☼

10 (prepared meal) * 3 (well) == 30 
2 (plant) * 2 ([[plump helmet]]) * 5 (exceptional) == 20 
2 (meat) * 1 ([[deer]]) * 2 (well-made) == 4 
5 ([[quarry bush leaves]]) * 4 (superior) == 20 
20 ([[dwarven wheat flour]]) * 1 (no label) == 20 
Subtotal (value of one serving): 94☼

94 (value) * 33 (quantity) == 3102☼

=== *Dragon meat stew [41]* ===

This is a stack of 41 well-prepared dragon meat stew. The ingredients are finely-minced Dwarven syrup, minced quarry bush leaves and well-minced dragon meat.

Total value: 11685☼

10 (prepared meal)* 2 (well) == 20 
20 ([[dwarven syrup]]) * 3 (fine) == 60 
5 ([[quarry bush leaves]]) * 1 (no label) == 5 
2 (meat) * 50 ([[dragon]]) * 2 (well) == 200 
Subtotal (value of one serving): 285☼

285 (value) * 41 (quantity) == 11685☼

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

{{Workshops}}

40d Talk:Kitchen

2009-05-17T14:14:55Z

Smartmo: /* Drawbacks of prepared meals */

What makes something "minced?" And what are the values for each type of prepared meal? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 07:34, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:"Minced" is simply a description of food items that get added to a meal. If a cook grabs a plump helmet and a turtle, the resulting meal would be described as having "minced plump helmet" and "minced turtle", or "finely minced" etc. based on the skill of the cook. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 12:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Best way to boost skill? ==

Given that lavish meals will usually clutter the kitchen due to number of ingredients, what's the best way to boost a cook's skill? Repeatedly make easy or lavish meals? In fact, do the various levels of meal give different XP? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 01:37, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Never mind! Answered in [[Cook]]. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 01:38, 20 November 2007 (EST)

== "job item lost or destroyed" ==

My repeated "cook fine meal" or "cook easy meal" tasks keep getting halted when the cook loses or destroys the food he is trying to cook. Is this a result of some flaw in my fortress? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 03:09, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

:That's due to people eating or drinking the things he tasks for cooking before he can cook them. I suggest putting cook tasks through the manager menu to deal with it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:04, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

:Alternatively, for the massive-cooking that I've occasionally had to do (100+ meals!) I just queue up the task 10x with repeats on all of them. It's far easier/faster than doing a job order for all of them (for me anyways) and the multiple jobs means that odds are it won't get fully canceled until he gets to the actual end of the supply chain, rather than the occasional interruption. Either way, it'll work fine. If you have a couple dozen meals (or an exact amount at all) to make, VD's method is better. If it's more like a couple hundred, mine will probably work better. If it's a couple thousand... have you considered doing anything with your dwarves other than farming? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:22, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

== Prepared meal value ==

This was sitting around in the talk section of [[item value]] for a while... if it's in the wrong spot, or if I've formatted it poorly, please fix it up! --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 11:59, 16 January 2009 (EST)

:We should make a special note somewhere on the page that, for the current version {{v|0.28.181.40d}}, you still can not trade Prepared Meals due to bug 000072 but liaisons are still capable of listing them as potential Trade Agreement exports. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 13:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)

:I might be mistaken, but I know i'm running 40d and I'm fairly certain the only thing I've exported is meals :/. I'll double check to make sure its working for me but it might somehow be through tiny mods I've done though I don't see how (more creatures tameable). Checked the exact bug list and it just says food inside prepared meal barrels, which would be easy enough to deal with if thats the case; just build a prepared meal only stockpile next to the normal one and allow no barrels then que up the take from pile task. Meals have such a broken value that it won't take that much space or that much hauling if your cooks and farmers are some level of skilled. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 02:01, 26 February 2009 (EST)

::I can very much confirm that on version 0.28.181.40d, I can and have traded prepared meals, and in fact, I often find them becoming my main export, due to their high value. However, in the "bring goods to depot" menu, they do not appear on any sublists, except "All". To find them, just do a search for "prepared meal barrel", "roast", "stew", or "biscuit". It is a bug that needs fixing, both concerning the list, and the price. It isn't too insane for an expert chef to make some good exports, but as it is, any moderately skilled chef can get me enough money to buy just about anything the caravans can bring. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Drawbacks of prepared meals ==

I think this subsection should be removed or renamed and at least rewritten. I was unable to rewrite it in a way that I felt good about, so I just added a few relevant lines. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 13:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, rotting isn't much of a drawback, but it is something to watch out for. I'll see if I can change it to something more appropriate. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Kitchen

2009-05-17T14:12:29Z

Smartmo: /* Prepared meal value */

40d Talk:Challenges

2009-05-16T19:03:01Z

Smartmo: /* Pave the World? */

==Prison Complex==
The idea is to build a large detention centre for the Mountainhomes.
Your starting 7 are the only dwarves allowed as wardens (except immigrants already in the military) and should have military skills and some basic construction skills.
All immigrants are treated as prisoners, and should be met as soon as possible once they enter the map and shepherded into the prison.
The cells should be arranged on three or four z-levels and all cell doors on a row linked to a lever in a seperate guard-only area.
'New fish' entered into general population during the out-of-cell hours, then all prisoners locked up for the night.
Some prisoners are on food duties - farming and such - but all food for prisoners to be dished out in a canteen.
Prisoners may also work on crafting items for the guards to trade.
Ideally many of your inmates are going to lose the plot and start attacking other inmates, leading to riots and all sorts. Send in the dogs!

I'm sure there are other interesting additions to this concept, but my experience with large and especially themed fortresses is limited.
I'd love it if anyone could expand this, and maybe figure out how to control the prisoners, get them all to bed etc.
Also, this is my first post on these pages, so hope I'm doing it right. :)

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]

:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)

::: How did you get it to work? I've tried starting with goblins and they are always "friendly" on the unit screen and so I can not attack them. Is there some trick to getting them hostile so you can do this sort of thing? 40d, by the way. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
..
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
>^
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:
| /
| /
| /
|/
|\
| \
| \
| \
:Or:
| /
| /
| /
|/___
| /
| /
| /
|/___
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Agoraphobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

==Genesis==
Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves.

::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.

::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.

::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.

:::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.

:::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize.

:::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.

:::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)

==Noblesse requis==

Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:Sure – it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!
:Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)
::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Magma/Lava Waterfall ==

Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)

:I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves & ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.
:On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::Which is why it's great building your fort into the the ledge a few levels over a Magma Pipe ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:01, 12 January 2009 (EST)

::::Hmm, that would be one way to do it, too bad I can't search for maps with that specific of a terrain set. Anyways, there has to be a way to spill off at least some of the magma as the magma pipes fill slowly but constantly from the bottom. Also, I learned from my failed experiment that Coke roads + magma spillover = road of fire. Unusable except for turning your fortress into Mordor, which is awesome in it's own way. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 21:29, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::::LOL, yes, I saw that and was thinking something along the lines of Mordor myself ;) As for spill over, the magma tends to flow off to the side off the top of the magma pipe where I'm at, resulting in a net loss to evaporation, so I just turn it off for a season once or twice a year. As for finding a magma pipe that's exposed *and* sunken, to provide atleast one level of inaccessible floor around the pipe, I'd look in the mountains, where you've got many many levels of elevation. Or atleast, that's what my map looks like (50+ levels) with the majority of the map being mountain tiles, and one corner (of a 2x4 map) being desert. It had two * listed in the height map, '''''but no chasm''''', so that could help to find one. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:35, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:Or, how about a dual water/magma waterfall, meeting on the road leading in? Encase your enemies in carbonite, err, obsidian. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:31, 15 January 2009 (EST)

== "Real time" challenge talk ==

1) As mentioned in the challenge, opening any menu pauses the game

2) "You have struck Alunite!" Anyone else get this message and a pause every 5 minutes?

If you were to keep the game running while you slept -- and trust me, I have -- all it takes is one minor inconvenience of the legion the game contains to pause it. I set the game to keep running before I went to bed one night, and between doing that and going to brush my teeth, it paused. I resumed, lay down in bed, and not a minute later, I opened my eyes to see the game had paused ''again.'' Too much stuff causes the game to pause to really execute this without constant babying.

Overall, I don't see this challenge as being feasible. Not bad in theory, but impossible in practice. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 06:15, 16 January 2009 (EST)

:Yes, thats true. That challenge would require either a new version where pausing-for-announcements can be disabled or a helper program to automatically acknowledge them and unpause the game. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:54, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Hermit Challenge ==

Does anyone have any tips for not having any damn migrants? The carps can't eat everyone.
: Well, you can just kill them all. Atom smasher, lava, water, goblin siege, choose your way to kill them. Even random ballista bolt could do the trick! Bonus point for the creative part !? :D [[User:Karl|Karl]] 19:45, 21 January 2009 (EST)
::Well, if the problem gets too extreme, you can adjust your maximum population to 1 in the ini files, and see if that works...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 20:43, 21 January 2009 (EST)
::: It doesn't work. The POPULATION_CAP seems bugged something awful. [[User:AbuDhabi|AbuDhabi]] 02:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

== The Great Wall of [Kingdom] ==

Here's an interesting challenge:

Your kingdom needs a great impenetrable defense to protect against your goblin enemies. You have been assigned to build a giant wall!

The wall must stretch from one side to the opposite, have a height of 5 z-axis, be four tiles wide complete with gate(s), towers, fortifications, ballistas and catapults. You must also position a crossbowdwarf at every ten tiles.

* BONUS: Build it right next to a goblin lair.
* BONUS: Build it all using only wood.
* BONUS++: Build it all using only soap!

[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:16, 22 January 2009 (EST)

:This wouldn't work due to the fact that you can't build walls (among other things) too close to the edge. At best, it would have to start six tiles in on both sides. However, you could implement an existing hill/mountain to "assist" with the completion of the wall.
:[[User:Nocash|Nocash]] 18:30, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Ah, good point. I kinda forgot about that. [[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 05:50, 25 January 2009 (EST)

:::You could use raised bridges at the ends, they can be built right up to the edges. --[[User:Torasin|Torasin]] 13:25, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== Pave the World? ==

If one where to flood the world with magma, then flood it with water, you would be left with a solid block of obsidian, am I right? (along with ALOT of steam.) Bonus for paving the elves. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Unless you time it right, you will get one flat layer of obsidian with all the water under it; the obsidian doesn't jump straight to the bottom. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 17:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:So if the water reaches the edge, and it drains, you're left with a layer of obsidian sitting on air? I can't really think of a use for something like that, but it sounds incredibly awesome anyway. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 19:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rewrite ==
Alright, this article is getting way too messy. 60 top-level items is more than most talk pages, many of them overlap each other, the ones involving goblin forts are out of date (as local goblins are automatically friendly as of 40d) and some of them just plain aren't challenges.

For now I've split them up into three broad categories, and I plan to weed out redundant/wrong bits and streamline the whole thing while still hopefully preserving some of the "flavor text". [[User:Walliard|Walliard]] 04:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== College ==
A center for enlighted craftsmanship studying and teaching. There should be auditoriums for each workshop type lined with chairs and a few lecture rooms with ascending rows of chairs where nobles rant to the peasants how lesser they are and to teach them manners. A canteen and dorms will also be needed.

Minor bonus: auditoriums are designated as meeting halls and have balconies and floor hatches on the ceiling to allow best studying with illuminated stages. 
Minor bonus: Hold keger parties each night. 
Bonus: Do not make co-ed dorms; married couples can rent a small apartment from nearby study houses. 
Bonus +: Engligthen other races. 
Ultimate bonus: Englighten orcs, goblins and other less friendly creatures. -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
: How does one "enlighten" other races? [[User:Lymojo|Lymojo]] 21:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)Lymojo

== Adam and Eve ==
I was thinking kind of a variation on the Hermit challenge except you keep one male and one female, and kill off any migrants or trade caravans, while keeping any babies those two produce.
:Worlds with no dwarves in them makes it a bit easier to achieve. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 19:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Would probably make more sense, yeah. Maybe even take out humans and elves while you're at it, while keeping kobolds and goblins. --[[User:Doodle|Doodle]] 13:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Olivine

2009-05-16T15:44:08Z

Smartmo:

What makes olivine special enough to warrant an article? <s>Sure, it spawns [[platinum]], but olivine only shows up in [[gabbro]], which already contains platinum, making that point moot. </s>
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:It spawns platinum, but it's hardly the only source. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

There has been no response from anyone, including the page's author, so I assume this page is not supported. Tagging for deletion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I had responded to you the same day you posted that first comment, but not here (actually, I thought on your talk page, VD - can't find it now, maybe it got lost.) It certainly seems that your 2nd post is responding to a response from somewhere. I'll try to recreate my position:

:Olivine is not nearly as notable as many other stones, but the very points you make at the top of the page are what makes it stand out from truly generic and useless stones like, say, microcline. Your remarks are what makes it "remarkable", if only in a literal sense. The purpose of a wiki page is to summarize information - anyone who knows the various stones knows that if you hit microcline, that tells you absolutely nothing. That is ''truly'' unremarkable. If a newbie strikes olivine and looks it up, they should be able to find out that 1) it may contain platinum, one of only a few sources, and 2) that it also represents an existing, larger gabbro layer - which is valuable to know in and of itself due to the ores that are found ''only'' in that stone. That olivine is not just another microcline.

:How else is a newbie supposed to know the very facts you toss out? Surf the entire wiki at random? Intuitively say "I've hit something called Olivine - I should look up platinum and gabbro!"? Inter-connectivity and reflexive flow of information is what makes a wiki useful, linking lesser (but not insignificant) items with larger.

:There are many stones that give zero information, that are, ''truly'', pointless and unremarkable. Olivine is not one of them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

::By this reasoning, [[chromite]] should also be remarkable, no? Maybe [[serpentine]], too. And [[cryolite]]. All of these spawn in only one place, as do many more. We have to draw the line, somewhere. Originally, the line was drawn at "has a special use or forms a layer". Later, someone added an exception for [[kimberlite]] since it is the ''only'' source of [[diamond]]s.
::It seems you have decided that "lets you know which layer you're digging into" makes a stone significant. By this criteria, over half of the stones which have no use would deserve their own page. In my opinion, this makes it a bad criteria to use; especially since that particular information is already contained on the [[stone]] page. Unless you want to instate this type of policy, (2) should not even have been mentioned in this discussion.
::As for (1), the issue here is more of a "what good does it do?" problem. From the perspective of a person who is interested in platinum and gets lead to [[olivine]] as a spawn location, there are two scenarios:
:*a) the olivine link leads to a redirect that sends them to a table which contains all the information they didn't know about olivine.
:*b) the olivine link sends them to the olivine page, which tells them olivine spawns in [[gabbro]] (they didnt know) and that olivine contains platinum (they did know).
::Why am I talking about such a specific example? Because there are no links to [[olivine]] except in pages that talk about [[native platinum]] and there is no reason any should appear. [[Chromite]] is in the same boat.
::Rather than deciding arbitrarily deciding you want a page on some rock, decide objectively on the criteria you want to use to determine which rocks deserve pages and follow through all the way. Keep in mind that there are a lot of rocks. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I'll address these one point at a time...

:::''"[[chromite]] should also be remarkable, no?"''
:::It's a matter of degree, depending on where that purely arbitrary line is drawn. None of your examples have any direct relation to ''anything'' of value, so I'd say "no", because of degrees of separation (and also, practically speaking, if you find a vein of chromite you'll also probably be aware of the olivine immediately adjacent to it). Serpentine and cryolite - small clusters compared to a large cluster? Even to a newb those would be obvious - the odds of driving a shaft into nothing but olivine is quantums greater than finding those without the olivine.

:::The sole parallel example would be [[Talc]], which is also found in large clusters and implies a dolomite (a flux) layer bounds it. No other stone both appears in such large areas and has a 1:1 relationship to other stones that people would care about.

:::''the line was drawn at "has a special use or forms a layer". Later, someone added an exception...''
:::''"It seems you have decided that..."''
:::I was unaware of this line - it's certainly not in the Guidelines. And your assumptions as to my own criteria do not do you justice. If I "decided" anything, it was in that vacuum, and from the perspective that something (appeared to) need to be decided. Maybe it's time to reconsider that line. The stance I was taking is closer to "Is this stone of any notable significance to game play? Does finding this stone matter in some tangible way? Does it have serious implications that are not self-evident?" None of your examples would fall under that slightly broader umbrella, but kimberlite and bauxite clearly do. As would olivine, and talc at the extreme edge of the definition. (And I'm not including "means a x-type of layer" in that definition - to me, that is too far removed. Distinctly different from "signifies the presence the ''only'' stone where these two important ores can be found" - a point your position ignores.)

:::Let's take the status-quo position in the other direction - how does a layer stone like Andesite, Rhyolite or Diorite deserve their own page? Simply because they're a layer stone??? There, that's said - and is clearly stated on the "stone" page, so why repeat it? I recently went thru and added that statement ("these are layer stones") to ''all'' of those articles, because there is ''nothing'' more to be said about them and they were absolutely blank. And yet they deserve their own pages? They have ores - ores in common with many others. So what? Well, they're a layer, and it was decided that's important enough. Okay, if it's an arbitrary line, let's move it slightly. Olivine has platinum, something only 2 stones* can claim - I think that's important enough by itself. Adding the gabbro connection to the mix only strengthens the position.
:::(* I'm ignoring stones that themselves are found only in Olivine. What difference whether it's in one or the other - who can really tell, or cares?)

:::''"From the perspective of a person who is interested in platinum and gets lead to [[olivine]] as a spawn location, there are two scenarios..."''
:::Either of which is also (more) applicable to many of "layer stone" articles.

:::''"to the olivine page, which tells them olivine spawns in gabbro (they didnt know) and that olivine contains platinum (they did know)."''
:::And Armok forbid that both those details appear on one page somewhere, and the poor newbie doesn't have to embark on a virtual paper chase to find out something that they don't even know they're ignorant of.

:::''"Because there are no links to [[olivine]] except in pages that talk about [[native platinum]]..."''
:::Exactly. You can get from native platinum to olivine, but it's ''much'' harder to get from olivine to native platinum - and that's the problem in a nutshell. Why do you have to jump thru hoops to find out about the potential presence of platinum?! You currently land on the "stone" page, and immediately olivine is lost with scores of other generic stones - from which it should stand out. Not as much as granite, not as much as many others, but certainly more than some layer stones. Leagues above microcline or orpiment, which are it's immediate neighbors. And we both know this every time we get the announcement "You have struck Rhyolite!" vs. "You have struck Olivine" - one promises something, and the other promises nothing.

:::And that simple knowledge should be available on a single page, under the only obvious key word. Imo.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Random additional thought: Why NOT have a comprehensive database of stones? The work appears to have been done already. I should, with only a few links, be able to find where any given ore can be found, and find what ores can be found in any given stone or layer. That is a good thing for the ONLY available reference. Rather than cut [[Olivine]], we should make [[Alunite]] not just redirect to "It's a stone". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, it may be worth it to bite the bullet and put together a page for everything. The main downside would be that special features of things like [[graphite]] may get lost among all the seemingly equally important pages. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Come to think of it, that's not really an issue as long as we don't try to cram too much into [[template:rocks]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

 
Seems like it's getting a bit heated in here. I call for a three day recess from edits for you two, to take the time to re-read and further understand each other's position on this. I see the merits of both, and neither is particularly more important than the other, from an overall viewpoint. Being that no one else has contributed as much, I think the drawing of this new line should be handled between you two, but with a bit of time to let it sit and collect a tad bit of dust, and perhaps further outside opinions. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:No personal attacks are cropping up, Ed. So far it seems we are all acting like adults :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

When you look up a stone, or anything for that matter, you want to be presented with all directly relevant information, and links to further relevant information. The stone page does not provide this for every stone at this time. I agree that the information about what olivine may contain is not very interesting, but it ''should'' be readily accessable. An Olivine page is the obvious, if not neccessarily practical, solution to the problem of finding ''all'' information (or links thereto) on olivine in ''one'' place. It is indeed a general problem on this wiki. You can look up something to see where it is found, but generally not to see what it may contain. It is the same with gypsum. You must use your browser's search function to find all the different stones that it may contain. Olivine takes the problem further, as it contains not only other stones, but also an ore. To see this you must use your browser's search function on the Ore page. And again on the Gem page to see if it may contain gems. Note that kaolinite, another stone of little interest, may contain turquoise.

I do not know what the best solution for this problem is. Rather than "one page per layer stone" I would suggest expanding the X Layer pages with subsecions for each of the stones that contain something the others do not (such as malachite in limestone and talc in dolomite), possibly with own-page-exeptions (can't think of any, but obsidian might be a candidate, with all its indirectly relevant information on farming it and whatnot). I suggest we either keep the Olivine page, rewrite it, and make sure the Stone page links to it, or have it redirect to an ''olivine subsection'' on the Stone page. I do find the latter less "clean".
--[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:11, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I don't think this is "heated" - I think both VD and I are adamant in our individual viewpoints, and Respect to him for that. But I agree that we need more input from diff users, and not just let "us two" hammer it out. ''Something'' needs to be expanded/changed/improved, imo. A page for any large cluster? Can we group similar types of truly generic stones under one (sub)article that can cover all of them? A separate article/chart for small clusters? Maybe simply expand the info on that universal chart on the stone page, or break it into different charts to be more useful. I also agree (and mentioned) that this may be an opportunity to re-examine the larger question of (written or unwritten) policy on "what deserves its own page", and in so doing what function this wiki fulfills for both the vet and newb user. Okay, out for now, have stated position (and then some, ahem, sorry), will watch quietly.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

::It does not seem prudent to me to come up with rules that are set in stone (no pun intended) about what does and doesn't deserve it's own page. Just ask: Is it useful? Is it relevant? In this case, yes. I find this page very helpful and informative. If I hit olivine and want to know about it, the [[Stone]] page simply does not have the same information. Just my two cents. I hope a conclusion is met soon. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Alligator

2009-05-15T21:39:03Z

Smartmo: about an alligator

Are these guys aggressive? In real life they are certainly dangerous, but in one game where I had one, I didn't have any problems with it. Didn't even get any " _____ cancelled ______ : Interrupted by Alligator." I even assigned my two war dogs to the two foragers (one per guy) as I wasnt taking chances with it.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 17:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

They move wickidly fast. --[[User:DUMBELLS|DUMBELLS]] 21:50, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Easy to kill. Just don't let it get a grasp on you, or you're dead. Really dead. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I started on a map with kobold cave and one named alligator. Suddenly, the alligator appeared 'dead' on my refuse pile. Could kobolds bring it down? Or did it die all by itself? --[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:Kobolds or something probably did it, unless it died of old age, which is incredibly unlikely. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Smartmo

2009-05-15T21:23:00Z

Smartmo: small rewrite

I've built a successful fortress on a volcano while embarking without ANY items, skills, or animals. 3 dwarves died to volcano creatures, 1 died of melancholy, and the biome was hot enough to evaporate all water. I will elaborate more if anyone shows any interest. '''Update''': I accidentally flooded my base with magma.

Interesting accomplishments:

'''Fortress Mode'''

-Built an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water. There were no survivors. (not impressive, but it's the best I've got)

'''Adventure Mode'''

-Wrestled a school of carp to death.

-Killed a pack of wolves by bludgeoning them to death with the corpses of their comrades.

I need some goals to try to achieve. I'm tired of making large fortresses just to drown them when I get bored. Put ideas on my [[User Talk:Smartmo|Talk]] page, if you've got any!

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-15T21:16:52Z

Smartmo: Forgot to sign. I swear I fixed that earlier though.

How is it possible that after a black bear attacked in the first month of my fortress, killing my woodcutter and a farmer, while badly wounding my expedition leader/carpenter, somehow became my most successful fortress yet? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

----

Idea for your projects! Outlast a bear by sitting on the ground with your back next to a tree, wielding nothing but a shield. Turn close combat on so not to kill the bear. Strangle it to death after it dies of over-excursion. BONUS: Try it with a pack of wolves. SUPER BONUS: Bowmen. --[[User:Demaster72|Demaster72]] 02:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is "[Building] an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water" with no survivors harder than you'd think? --[[User:Zort|Zort]] 02:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't seal the entrance. A few got out, but a few ambushes fixed that. I see your point though, I'm just trying to put filler in my main page. I'll fix it. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]]

==Orc mod==

Have you tried the Orc mod? I never "lost" a fortress until I tried that mod. They are trap-avoid (so traps don't work) and they don't feel pain. They are very agile, too, which makes it hard. Once you figure out how to deal with orcs, though, you laugh at goblins (but not the ranged units!).--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'll consider it, but the real problem I have is that it takes so long to make a good fortress, but nothing happens once I do. I'm currently looking up megaconstructions on the [[Challenges]] page. Finding a goal, something to try to achieve, would make this game so much more interesting. In fact, I'll add that to my main page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-15T21:15:44Z

Smartmo: /* Orc mod */

How is it possible that after a black bear attacked in the first month of my fortress, killing my woodcutter and a farmer, while badly wounding my expedition leader/carpenter, somehow became my most successful fortress yet? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

----

Idea for your projects! Outlast a bear by sitting on the ground with your back next to a tree, wielding nothing but a shield. Turn close combat on so not to kill the bear. Strangle it to death after it dies of over-excursion. BONUS: Try it with a pack of wolves. SUPER BONUS: Bowmen. --[[User:Demaster72|Demaster72]] 02:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is "[Building] an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water" with no survivors harder than you'd think? --[[User:Zort|Zort]] 02:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't seal the entrance. A few got out, but a few ambushes fixed that. I see your point though, I'm just trying to put filler in my main page. I'll fix it.

==Orc mod==

Have you tried the Orc mod? I never "lost" a fortress until I tried that mod. They are trap-avoid (so traps don't work) and they don't feel pain. They are very agile, too, which makes it hard. Once you figure out how to deal with orcs, though, you laugh at goblins (but not the ranged units!).--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'll consider it, but the real problem I have is that it takes so long to make a good fortress, but nothing happens once I do. I'm currently looking up megaconstructions on the [[Challenges]] page. Finding a goal, something to try to achieve, would make this game so much more interesting. In fact, I'll add that to my main page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-15T15:01:35Z

Smartmo: forgot to sign

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-15T15:00:41Z

Smartmo:

User:Smartmo

2009-05-15T15:00:23Z

Smartmo: minor fix

I've built a successful fortress on a volcano while embarking without ANY items, skills, or animals. 3 dwarves died to volcano creatures, 1 died of melancholy, and the biome was hot enough to evaporate all water. I will elaborate more if anyone shows any interest. '''Update''': I accidentally flooded my base with magma.

Interesting accomplishments:

'''Fortress Mode'''

-Built an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water. There were no survivors.

'''Adventure Mode'''

-Wrestled a school of carp to death.

-Killed a pack of wolves by bludgeoning them to death with the corpses of their comrades.

Any [[fun]] ideas? Put it on my [[User Talk:Smartmo|Talk]] Page! Honestly, I need more challenges to keep the game interesting.

40d Talk:Chasm

2009-05-15T01:12:12Z

Smartmo: /* To find a chasm */ new section

I removed the "this is for use on the lowest level of the Chasm" part of the article, because it doesn't seem to be the case. You can set a dump zone over the side of a tower 20 z-levels high and still have the crap land in the chasm, and I don't see why the collapse trick wouldn't work at all levels as well. --[[User:Tallyho|Tallyho]] 07:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

I've had a chasm in a mountainous area near a volcano which was in fact cylindrical, not shaped like a river at all. It was basically a bore of empty space all the way to the bottom-most level, which consisted of the # chasm squares. In that respect, it looked much like a volcano bore but generally a bit smaller. There were variations in width on different levels of it as well. This led to open cave floor around it on some levels where troglodytes, iron men, giant cave swallows, and caveswallowmen frolicked about. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 08:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Huh, how about that. They're certainly more interesting than they used to be.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 14:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Interesting. Sounds like a magma vent minus the magma. I have a game going in a grassland a few region squares away from a volcano. When I first started the game, I got a message that part of the cavern had collapsed and it zoomed to the magma vent. The vent itself was as you describe--a roughly cylindrical sinkhole of varying widths that went all the way to the bottom. Only in my case, it was full of magma up to the surface, and at lower depths, fire imps, magma men and fire snakes could be seen (Apparently, magma is transparent.) Maybe the game treats magma vents as localized chasms full of magma? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 16:43, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:: That's probably how it was formed, using the same algorithm as a magma vent, but it does appear to be intentional. Perhaps it is indeed meant to be a dead magma vent. That same map has the main volcano magma vent a short distance away. The magma vent was of course shown on the local map when choosing the map location, but the circular chasm was not.
::As for the collapse message when starting on a map with a magma vent, that appears to be due to a bug where a body of water is generated in the middle of it. This water instantly creates a solid block of obsidian with no support, which then collapses. Magma is semi-liquid, and fireproof monsters like those you mention will swim freely through it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 17:06, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Actually there are two variants of the chasm, a chasm vent/pit and a chasm/river star like chasm (encountered this one twice, and it really fucked up the level). Perhaps we should works this into the article. Perhaps we should ad screenshots. I sadly have no save with the star river like chasm anymore (abandoned those). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 18:45, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm playing a fortress right now with the same type of "pit" chasm. I'll see if I can get a shot of it to add to the page. --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 19:08, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Are the surface chasms visible from the map when selecting the site? It would be great to get a screenshot of that for the page to look similarly to the volcano page. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 02:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:They're not visible until you actually embark. Same thing for kobold caves. However, if they reach the surface at all, you can see every single tile they contain right away.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I don't think that chasms are the only things that can produce 20+ cliffs. I have a fortress now that is right on the edge of a massive cliff.--[[User:Zonhin|Zonhin]] 19:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)

: They aren't. Those cliffs appear rather often around true volcanoes and mountain peaks. Chasms just happen to be VERY common in mountain region tiles at embark, as much so as small brooks/rivers in certain other regions.

I have a pretty oddly shaped chasm, or at least i think i do. It starts from the corner of the map in a river like shape, then it splits off into 5 smaller 'fingers.' I've mined alot of the rock around it; it has a wide assortment of metals, gems, and stone i havent seen anywhere else on the map.--[[User:Hiho216|Hiho216]] 00:58, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:Apparently, you have a chasm that got the same code as a river source/delta, as that creates the same sort of 'fingers.'--[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:34, 23 January 2008 (EST)

The article says that cave spiders "Often cave spiders are present near chasms". Shouldn't it be "Cave spiders spawn periodically near chasms"? I haven't seen chasm without those awesome little silk spawners. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a pic of the end of a chasm here: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8286/chasmendfl7.png
Not sure if it's notable... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 23:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baddies ==

Do chasms spawn hostile creatures like ratmen, or do they just start there? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

:Sadly, UG/chasm/magma no longer spawns anything. Kill it, and it is gone for good. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)

::Any chance of re-introducing spawning? A init option enabling it would be sweet! --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:04, 3 March 2009 (EST)

== Chasm of Death ==

There's no mention of this in the article so I feel compelled to inquire as to what people's experiences of chasms in adventure mode have been.

When 'venturing about one of my fallen fortresses I was attacked by a hoard of troglodytes, approximately 15 brutally violated me within the corridors of my fortress as my noble warrior collapsed due to over-exertion after blocking countless attacks and was promptly strangled to death. Thinking this a mere quirk of the wonderful world of DF I returned to the fortress with a different character, much stronger this time, expecting to be able to have a proper look around. I was sadly mistaken. I was first attacked by a giant eagle, after a few fortunate strikes I had claimed the upper hand and was preparing to deal the killing blow when a wave of those cursed troglodytes clambered up the mountainside. Well taught by the experience of that unfortunate past warrior, abandoning my prey, I fled. Well, I did for a few moments before turning to see the troglodyte hoard attacking the giant eagle, I must say, I felt a deep sense of pity for the poor beast as the monsters went about their brutal practice of trying to break every bone in its body.

With a cry I charged at the mass of assailants and began to cleave them apart, blood spat forth endlessly from the mound of creatures before me as I hacked and slashed, coating the mountainside in crimson. Unfortunately the eagle was torn apart before I could give it a slightly more honourable death (slightly being the key word here) and I found myself surrounded by limbs, corpses and blood. The slaughter of the troglodytes was not to be the first however as each time I return to that cursed place more and more crawl forth from the chasm. They attack all in their path, be they goat or giant eagle and as such the slope of the mountain is stained with the blood of perhaps hundreds and the bones of the countless fallen litter the earth. It seems the troglodytes are without number.

Perhaps this was a curious enigma in the world, a strange chasm of frenzied and blood thirsty troglodytes, so I thought until I came upon an inhabited fortress deep in the mountains nearby. Upon arriving I heard the cries of a child set upon by vicious bat-men, by the time I found the infant I was too late, only a bruised and battered corpse remained. Upon this visit there was little more of importance which came to pass, I was in fact not even aware that there was a chasm in the vicinity until my second visit. As soon as I neared the fortress the stench of death was thick in the air, rat-men, troglodytes and bat-men were mobbing and slaughtering soldiers, fish-cleaners and dyers indiscriminately. I ran to the aid of the assailed but for many I was too late, after what seemed like an age of combat all was quiet and the ground was littered with limbs and corpses and, of course, stained with blood. As I looked upon the all-to-familiar scene of destruction a terrible thought suddenly struck me, perhaps there was a chasm here. From my experience I presumed that it would probably be upon the side of a mountain and so to the East I ran, clambering up the slopes, and as I did so I heard a cry. A swordsman, perhaps with the same idea as I had come upon the chasm and was being attacked by numerous assailants, including a gremlin and several rat-men. Tragically, as I neared his location he bled to death (I don't quite know what cut him, perhaps a large rat entered the battle at some point), I found his corpse high atop a pile of the bodies of those he had slain in his battle-frenzy.

And then, I saw it, the chasm, a damned pit of suffering and torment. No sooner had I sighted it than I was attacked by a number of bat-men. As I fought more and more emerged from the chasm but they all met the same bloody end, my time spent fighting hoards of vicious troglodytes had sharpened my skill in combat and once the stream of foes ended I emerged tired, but unwounded.

To conclude, chasms may be useful waste-disposal areas in fortress, but in adventure they are terrible places of endless slaughter where blood flows unceasingly. Have others had similar experiences? If so I'll add a section (with a little less story-telling) to warn people of the dangers of these cursed pits. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 17:25, 8 February 2009 (EST)
----
Uncommon? They're all over the place in mountain biomes, in my experience. [[User:InsanityPrelude|InsanityPrelude]] 13:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

----

Y'mean the chasms? Perhaps I've been spending too much time frolicking with wolves in the woods.
Admittedly they are pretty prevalent in fortress mode but tend to be tucked away, at least in my fortresses. Maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough on my adventures or the majority of the citizens of chasms are friendlier folk who don't pick fights quite as often. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 21:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== To find a chasm ==

Once I looked at my stocks screen to find a bunch of naked mole dog/olmman corpses on the list. I didn't recall anything dying recently, so I zoomed to it and found it pointing deep underground. I never actually got the chance to dig it up and see, but it didn't take me long to figure out what was going on. Anyway, that's just something to look out for, if you're in the market for a chasm, or just don't want any nasty surprises. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Ethics

2009-05-14T22:10:16Z

Smartmo: /* Ethics */

So, here's a list of the various ethics tags that I got a friend to dump for me, as I couldn't find them anywhere. If anyone else wants to make this page more pretty and better formatted that would be good, I can't get the hang of wikis --[[User:Lord.Nagash|Lord.Nagash]] 20:18, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

== Ethics ==

Do ethics have any effect on the game besides looking pretty and starting wars? I tried to make a race that thought slavery was perfectly acceptable but it wouldn't take any civilians prisoner after pillaging/destroying. Do I need [ABUSE_BODIES]? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:40, 3 November 2008 (EST)
: I'm guessing not all of these have been coded into the AI behaviors yet, with the exception of goblin snatchers and kobold thieves. All they probably do right now is spark wars through philosophical disagreements during worldgen. You know, an elf and a dwarf go for a drink, they get to talking about religion, slavery and sapient races, more drink is involved, arguments start, before you know it your civ is at war. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:19, 13 January 2009 (EST)

::What about lying, for example? I don't believe there is any way to "lie" anywhere in the game, seemingly making this ethic option moot. Worldgen stuff, maybe, but what possible impact could it have? Can lies spark wars? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Smartmo

2009-05-13T18:57:07Z

Smartmo: Rewrite

I've built a successful fortress on a volcano while embarking without ANY items, skills, or animals. 3 dwarves died to volcano creatures, 1 died of melancholy, and the biome was hot enough to evaporate all water. I will elaborate more if anyone shows any interest. '''Update''': I accidentally flooded my base with magma.

Interesting accomplishments:

'''Fortress Mode'''

-Built an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water. There were no survivors. That's harder than you'd think.

'''Adventure Mode'''

-Wrestled a school of carp to death.

-Killed a pack of wolves by bludgeoning them to death with the corpses of their comrades.

Any [[fun]] ideas? Put it on my [[User Talk:Smartmo|Talk]] Page! Honestly, I need more challenges to keep the game interesting.

40d Talk:Rhesus macaque

2009-05-13T15:03:14Z

Smartmo: /* Ouch! */

I was attacked by these guys in my fortress, and the attacks seemed to co-incide with a kobold raid, are they actually smart enough for diplomacy or was it a coincidence? (around 10 of them, 3 kobold thieves, good practice for my new military) ---Major

It was coincidence they attacked at same time--[[User:ThVaz|ThVaz]] 05:35, 20 February 2008 (EST)

== Ouch! ==

In a recent game, a pack of these raided my outpost very early in the game (before I had moved all my stuff into secure stockpiles). They stole several things, including the rope I'd bought so I could build a well as early as possible. Well, I wasn't going to stand for that, so I activated my entire military (all of whom were novice wrestlers or better) and unleashed them on the monkey menace...

Who then managed to kill one of my dwarves!

Fortunately it was my "miscellaneous crafts dwarf" rather than anyone critcal like a miner/woodcutter/farmer, but it was quite a shock and a setback to lose someone so early on. (Although part of a pattern I seem to be getting lately of losing someone within the first year: first a fisherdwarf drowning (dragged in by a long nosed gar, I think), then this macaque murder, and more recently a couple of fire imp attacks). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 18:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

A tip I'd give you for that is to have a [[Bowyer's_workshop|Bowyer's workshop]] and make wooden crossbows, and craft some wooden arrows, this is if wood is plentiful, it can also be done with bone. Crossbows would scare them off more readily I think, I'm not sure on that. As for the topic, the macques would have fluked a kill, by attacking instead of their usual fleeing. Rare, but not as rare as a hoary marmot killing a dwarf, which I have had happen. Goes to show anything can kill when it gets lucky. --[[User:Major sephiroth|Major sephiroth]] 22:56, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:For a different version of "Ouch": I was trying an outdoor fortress, and my first artifact - a groundhog leather coat (only worth 4800) - was '''stolen''' by a Rhesus Macaque. Interestingly, I killed the macaque that took it from the stockpile; it lay there on the ground, marked as "forbidden" since it had been stolen, and being ignored by both dwarves and the remaining macaques. I killed most of the rest, then reClaimed the artifact; at which point the remaining macaque made a beeline for it and ran off with it. --[[User:Alextfish|Alextfish]] 15:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

::A bunch of these guys (at least 6 or 7) just tried to steal from me. I sent my lone marksdwarf after them. My entrance is now covered in blood and said marksdwarf is now wearing the invader's skin. And now they're coming back. They never learn. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fortress defense

2009-05-13T14:43:22Z

Smartmo: /* Merging in other articles and defining what this page should be */

i ve seen discussions bout "moats/pits" here and there - why not simply use an empty channel? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:07, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Style, mostly. Well, that and an empty channel isn't deadly to anyone falling into it (Which can happen on occasion in a big bunch of enemies.) For most things, though, an empty channel backed by a wall to prevent projectile fire is sufficient. --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Non-lethality can be a good thing, in case your own dwarves fall in. Just trap the exit(s), and it's still lethal to attackers. Or, if you're really determined to make it lethal to everyone, just channel a huge pit too deep for anything to survive. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 00:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Planning for building destroyers ==

So, apart from doors (and things like workshops) what can a building destroyer monster break through? Do I have to worry about a [[magma man]] breaking through the wall grate filter in my magma supply, or a [[troll]] busting through my arrow slits (= fortifications)? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen them destroy ballistas, statues and hatch covers. They probably can destroy anything that can be built. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:10, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I got a [[bronze colossus]] to play with and did some testing. (They really do regenerate quickly!)

Things destroyed:
*iron/steel/stone doors (gone)
*stone wall grate (gone)
*trade depot (deconstructed into rough stones)
*glass statues (deconstructed only, they were sitting next to where they were installed; game says "toppled")
*vertical steel bars (deconstructed only; "toppled")

Things not destroyed:
*constructed or carved walls and fortifications (ignored)
*rope (for holding guard dogs; it walked right over)
*drawbridge (walked across; ignored while up)

Science! [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:04, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

: I was under the impression that a bronze colossus would destroy constructed walls/fortifications if they are the only way to get to dwarves. This is also claimed in the unpolished [[fortifications]] page. Is that true? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:40, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

:: I am quite determined that this is not correct. I had a dragon siege my fortress, which made heavy use of constructed walls outside. It, like all megabeasts, has the [BUILDING_DESTROYER:2] tag. When I rose my drawbridge, it just sat around outside. While it couldn't reach the bridge which was protected by a small channel, my dwarves were farming in exterior fields just a wall (again, this is constructed, not natural) away. It sat there, totally still for two seasons until I sent out my marksdwarves to kill it. I think that back in the flat fortress days, megabeats could destroy constructions, or that seems to be the consensus of the wiki. They just don't anymore, any information that tells you they break walls is out of date. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 01:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:::(Sensei - Could that info be as "out of date" as the question you are responding to, perhaps? btw, yes - "buildings" are [[building]]s, not [[construction|{{k|C}}onstructions.]])--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Armed Civilians ==
I tried the armed civilian stuff, but an unfortunate side effect is that hunters seem to sleep anywhere except in their beds. Also the forums suggest giving 'fake' woodcutting or mining jobs so that civilians carry pick-axes or battle-axes. This does not address the armor issue, though. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:35, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add that it's possible to be mistaken about having no wildlife to hunt! Not all wildlife is present when you embark, there's some random appearances of things like macaques from the edge of the map. It doesn't have to be MUCH wildlife to be disruptive to this plan, either. Ever see 13 dwarves hunting one alligator, with maces? Gah. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:57, 21 December 2008 (EST)!
::It is true that wildlife constantly changes, but it is possible to have no ''huntable'' wildlife. On a beach map, I had several roving schools of cod. Nothing else. Just lots and lots of cod. I have tried to kill some of them, but so far I have gotten nothing but cod on that map. It should be noted that these cod were way out in the middle of the ocean.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

==Use of User Names in Defense Designs==
May I suggest we not use them. Sure, someone may have been the first one to propose it on the wiki, but that doesn't mean others haven't thought about it before (in the case of the trapped chained animal somewhere away from your fort, I know I've seen that on the forums before, and its identical to the 'Roach Motel' from [[Defense guide]]), and it doesn't mean that you're some kind of genius to have thought of it.

Its not like I haven't provided novel suggestions (including on this page), but it seems wrong to lay claim to them. A lot of it has to do with understanding how the game works and the solutions proceed logically from that.

As such, I am removing usernames from the subsection titles. I don't feel they're appropriate. If people disagree, lets discuss it here, but the wiki is not about self-aggrandizement, its about providing information about what works and what doesn't. Who first wrote about it on the wiki shouldn't be relevant. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:54, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:I wouldn't have put my name if others weren't already there for ages. Nor did I ever think any of the names were really laying claim to inventing these things. I don't give a damn if my name's there or not, and accusing me of self-aggrandizement is a little rude. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:43, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::Sidestepping the issue of accusations, I agree with Squirrelloid that names are best left off article pages. It interferes with collaborative writing that is the core of the wiki model -- you can't freely rewrite what someone else has written if it says "I wrote and/or designed this".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:00, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::I did not specifically call you out Corona nor did I speculate on any particular poster's motives. I can see how you may have necessarily read my comment as implying such, however, and I apologize for that. Peace? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:37, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:Further vote of agreement on [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]'s action. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:36, 24 December 2008 (EST)

:Even more agreement. Barring outstanding complaint, we'll stick with this modified version. --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 06:39, 25 December 2008 (EST)

== Merging in other articles and defining what this page should be ==
Currently, there's this page, the [[defense guide]], and [[fortifications]] all doing approximately the same thing. What we need to do is better define what goes where, and what articles are actually necessary. I'd suggest merging most of the current articles into this one, and then taking all the specific defensive design strategies and putting them in a seperate page, similar to how [[bedroom designs]] is separate from [[bedroom]]. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 00:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

:I noticed that too when I was working on "siege engines" - repeated redundant duplication over and over again. I suggest (in line with your thoughts?) that this topic, "fortress defense", should be more abstract and theoretical, and more specific topics and examples have their own page(s). "Defense Designs" could be the equivalent of "bedroom design", with specifics. (Maybe a new category, "designs"?) The article starts well, with "fortification based" - but then never follows up with any other "X-, Y-, and Z-based" alternative approaches to that. The last few topics on this page are what I think it should be - general approaches, theory, points to consider. The examples of "reverse battlements" and the winding entryway are too specific, and with few alternative examples (or at least for an intro page like this). The graphics for the flooded entryway are not clear at all imo.

:I think, on this page, something like these sections could be included, each short with a ''general'' discussion, perhaps with (at most) one simple example:
:: 1) Plan ahead: Topography, natural barriers & dangers, growth, pro-con of walls vs trenches, ranges for weapons, etc.
:: 2) Weapons at your disposal - active vs passive, barriers, bridges, traps, melee troops, archers, siege weapons, guard dogs, water, magma, pits, & etc.
:: 3) Different threats - wild animals, thieves & snatchers, sieges, mega-beasts. Also flying critters, magma critters, GCS.
:: 4) Defending... your entryway, your outdoor buildings/areas, your forest (or outdoor workers), your inner fortress (2nd line of defense), your troops.
:: 5) Philosophies - "hall of traps", "crossbow death", "go turtle until it passes", "wall/channel your own private Idaho", "Mano a mano!", "kill zones", "complex entry traps", etc etc. (Names subject to change, natch)

:''Then'', tied to each of those, links relevant to those ideas, with (hopefully) multiple and varying examples for each.

:(Also, can we all agree to delete that chatty crap toward the very end? The trite Mayor and Trader exchange?) ;( I'd be happy to rewrite it so it's actually informative on the topic. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::In general, I like this direction. It's very similar to the current [[defense guide]], though. If we are going to keep two separate pages, we need to better define what goes on what page. Personally, I think we could just merge the two together, and I don't really care which page is kept and which page becomes a redirect.
::We definitely need a page like Defense designs, but it should also have stuff like the armed civilian section and other tips, so I'm not sure the name Defensive designs is accurate.
::And yes, I'll get rid of that mayor/trader exchange. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 01:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::: Hadn't stumbled upon that Defense Guide before - what a morass. That could use some paring down as well. And I'd bet nothing links to it. Yes, these could be combined - one page for general advice and theory, one (or more) for examples practical, impractical, specific and obscure. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Seeing as how there's so very many ideas concerning defense, I think we need a disambiguation page, like there is for [[modding]], with sections on megabeasts, sieges, siege as defense, etc. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 03:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::That's not technically a disambiguation page, that's a category. There is a [[:Category:Fortress defense]] category. If I understand you correctly, you're saying there should be a Megabeast defense page, a siege defense page, an ambush defense page, etc.? That doesn't really make sense... most aspects of defense overlap considerably, and you can't really build a separate defense system for each threat. Certainly the megabeast, siege, etc. pages should have a blurb about defending against said threat, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a centralized page that deals with all aspects of defense. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 05:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well you get what I mean. There should be a basic defense page, of course, but I'm just saying there's too many ideas and strategies to fit entirely on one page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Hammerer

2009-05-13T03:42:53Z

Smartmo: /* Trap/kill the Hammerer */

I saw it mentioned somewhere - on either the bay12 forums or elsewhere on this wiki - that if you strip a Hammerer of his hammer (mark it for dumping), he'll not pick up another one, and will 'hammer' people unarmed instead. Certainly this seems to be working for me so far; out of two prescribed 'hammerings' I've had one Carpenter come out with a bruised lower spine, and a Swordsdwarf come out unscathed (likely thanks to his chainmail). Not yet any skill in wrestling for the Hammerer either (not even dabbling). -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:56, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

:Nice find, why not add that to the article?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:: You can prevent hammerer-related deaths entirely by trapping the hammerer in a cage trap. You will need to arrange some way, such as sleep or giant cave spider, for the hammerer to become unconscious and fall down on a cage trap tile. -- [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 17:18, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:I also remember seeing horror stories from the 2D version where, if the Hammerer lost both his arms, he would BITE people as punishment. And tear their heads off with his jaws, walking around with dwarf chunks in his mouth. A hammerer with no arms is way more dangerous than you might think; if he loses his arms, make sure he loses his head too! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:19, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::It seems unlikely. A hammerer who lost both his arms would also be losing consciousness constantly.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:46, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:::is this still true? i have the hammerer's hammer designated as A) forbidden, and B) for melting (even though it's a work of art). it's been almost a year, and he's still not dropped it, and it's the only thing available for melting, but an alert pops up saying "smelter cancels melt a metal object: needs melt-designated item".

::::Dwarves won't melt something that somebody is carrying, and they won't do squat with something that's forbidden. They will, however, ''dump'' an object that's being carried/worn. So try unforbidding the hammer and marking it for dumping. When it gets dumped, go to the dump zone, reclaim it, and mark it for melting. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 12:01, 6 March 2009 (EST)

:::::yep, done that. taken it off both 'melt' and 'forbid', set it to be 'dumped', and he's still carrying it around. looks like it's not possible anymore :/ thank goodness i built that prison block! xD

::::::Have you remembered to set a garbage dump zone? I'm on 40d and had no problem dumping my hammerer's hammer. It might just take a while for someone to come and take it off him. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 13:45, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

:::::::yeah, that must have been it. i assumed he'd just drop it, if not dump it himself. he didnt have it equiped when i locked him in his room, so it must have been dumped at some point x] bit too late, but.. better late than never :] --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::::::i found the reason it wasnt dumped (or, may have a possible reason). i think i designated it from the 'stocks' menu, and on the [[Stone management]] wiki, it stated that it requires 'some bookkeeper labour' to designate stones for dumping from the stocks menu. since i was moving my bookkeeper to a more appropriate housing block with the other nobles, he didnt have a desk to work off. hence, it was never confirmed, and didnt happen. --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

==Arrives with Baron==
Can anyone verify this?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've had this happen recently; that is, the hammerer and baron arriving together. I've only had a baron arrive once, however, so this is hardly conclusive. Also this baron promptly ruined the fort with his 'economy' and 'coin' and other seditious ideas, but that's beside the point.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

This isn't true. I've just received the hammerer along with the count and the tax collector. No baron ! --[[User:Rep|Rep]] 22:04, 13 April 2009 (UCT)

: ''The Baron may be promoted (or displaced by order of noble rank) into/by the Count'' (From the [[baron]] article) (And don't forget to sign your message :P) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 22:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Finished off a goblin invader ==

Just fended off my second invasion of goblins first with trolls.(I love cage traps)
He killed off a goblin with heavy injuries from the stone traps bare-handed as I dumped his hammer. I'd like to give him a hammer (a weak one) for effort :) My point is that he'll help fighting.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 18:18, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

==Avoiding a Hammering==
This page would seem like a good place to put advice on how to avoid getting your dwarves hammered (and not in the good way.) Does putting the full amount of guards and cages prevent dwarves violating work orders being sentenced to hammerings?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:45, 18 December 2008 (EST)
:Mostly. The default sentence for any offense is jail time. To be able to sentence your dwarf to jail time, you need to have a free guard to escort the offender to jail and you need a chain or cage to put them in. It's only if they try to put your dwarf into jail and fail that they get hammered. It's still possible to get more people arrested than you have restraints, unless you have a restraint for every dwarf. There was a case in one of my forts where my Mayor decided ''post facto'' that crowns could not be exported... right after I'd just put out a big shipment of them. I had 34 dwarves sentenced and only 15 (the recommended amount) restraints. The hammerer had a very bloody time of it... Kind of a shame that the mayor wasn't one of the offending haulers.
:Also, as I think is noted somewhere above, if you have no guards and no restraints designated as a jail, the noble gets an unhappy thought for not being able to punish anyone (on top of unhappines over not having the mandate filled if that's the offense) but there's no jail time and no hammering because there was no failure to get the offender to jail. One side effect of this is that tantruming dwarves are not stopped as effectively. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:04, 18 December 2008 (EST)

==Trap/kill the Hammerer==
is it possible? both to trap him, and/or kill him? and if you do either, is he replaced? he's already killed one of my champion wrestlers for failing a mandate (no idea why it was him; i assume it's linked to his former job, although i'm really not sure), and now he's whacked (literally) a peasant, with no skills (he was just hauling wood!) - instantly killing him. i want him dead! :| --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:17, 7 March 2009 (EST)

:The "standard" method for dealing with misbehaving nobles is to turn their room into a drowning chamber, or to throw them into a 20z pit. If you're in a hurry, you can always just lock him in his room until he dies of starvation or thirst. There's plenty of other, more imaginative ways though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:29, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::will he be replaced, though? i dont want another one showing up with the next wave x] nor do i want my mayor to take up the position :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::I think he will. Of course, you don't have to let ''him'' live either. And your mayor won't do any noble's job except his own. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 12:13, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

::::he's been safely disposed of, and his weapon is being used by one of the n00bs sparring in the barracks :] he's not been replaced so far, but if one comes during the next wave of immigrants, he'll get the same treatment. let's hope he brings with him another steel axe; it's in short supply on my map :x --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::::One thing you could try to stop a replacement coming is locking him in his rooms (and building a wall over the door just to make sure) and channelling a hole above. Make it a dumping zone and throw some food and drink in every now and again - make sure there's a food stockpile in there so it won't rot, and remember to unforbid it all after it's been dumped. You could even carve the room and put plenty of furniture in there and you could very well end up with an ecstatic hammerer, living out his days walled into his rooms, never to be heard from again. [[User:FangXianfu|FangXianfu]] 02:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::::::Just so you know, [[Unfortunate accident|there's a page on noble disposal.]] No need to thank me. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 03:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fortress defense

2009-05-13T03:35:25Z

Smartmo: /* Merging in other articles and defining what this page should be */

40d:Refined coal

2009-05-13T03:32:03Z

Smartmo: Fixed broken link

'''Refined coal''' and '''coal fuel''' are two in-game terms that refer to any unit of charcoal or coke, the two fuels used to power high-temperature industries, namely metalworking and glassworking. One unit of either of these fuels is required for every task at a conventional (non-magma) [[smelter]], [[forge]], [[kiln]], or [[glass furnace]]. Magma versions of these facilities do not need fuel, and in fact cannot use conventional fuel to power them if their magma sources fail.

''(Note that [[Bituminous coal]] is '''not''' a "refined coal" or "coal fuel", though it is directly related.)''

== "Fuel" ==

Though not seen in-game, the single word "fuel" is sometimes used informally in the forums and in various wiki articles in place of the in-game terms "refined coal" or "coal fuel". Since some understandable confusion can arise over the usage of the various terms "'''refined coal'''", "'''coal fuel'''", "'''charcoal'''" and "'''coke'''" (and also "[[bituminous coal]]", which is ''not'' a fuel), the simple umbrella term "fuel" will be used in the explanations in this article.

The two sub-types of fuel are ''charcoal'' and ''coke'', and they are identical for in-game purposes, even if they come from different sources and have different in-game names. Whenever you see "coal fuel" or "refined coal", those refer to ''either'' charcoal or coke - they are interchangeable, and either one will serve the same purpose, as fuel for the desired activity.

Both charcoal and coke come in [[block]]s, and are stockpiled in the Bars/Block [[stockpile]] under the "coal" entry. There is currently no way (nor need) to distinguish between the two when designating stockpiles.

At the risk of repetition, but to be perfectly clear - ''despite the different names, there is no distinction between charcoal and coke for any game activities.'' Both are "refined coal" or "coal fuel", or just "fuel".

Charcoal and coke are ''not'' [[fire-safe]] building materials.

== In-game usage ==

At a conventional (non-magma) smelter, if you try to add a smelting task and have no fuel, you will see the message:

<blockquote>"'''Must have coal fuel'''"</blockquote>

You will not be allowed to add any tasks to any conventional smelter until you have at least one unit of either charcoal or coke.

If you have queued up several tasks and then run out of fuel, you will get an announcement similar to:

<blockquote>"'''[[Urist|Urist McFuelUser]] cancels job: Needs refined coal.'''"</blockquote>

Note that a forge or glass furnace ''will'' let you add tasks if you have no fuel, and only once a dwarf arrives and finds they cannot complete that task will you get the announcement to that effect. You will get one announcement for each un-fueled task that is unable to be completed. Jobs are canceled when there is no fuel.

When you get either of these messages, you need more fuel - either charcoal or coke will serve equally well.

== The two sub-types of fuel ==

There are 2 sub-types of conventional fuel - [[charcoal]] and [[coke]]. Charcoal and coke are identical in use - one unit of either one powers one activity at a conventional smelter, forge, kiln or glass furnace. The only difference is their source.

[[Wood]] does not burn hot enough to fuel these activities or facilities, and (in Dwarf Fortress) you cannot burn [[bituminous coal]] or [[lignite]] that has been mined and not refined in a smelter (altho' they are flammable).

=== Charcoal, from wood===

:Charcoal is created at a [[wood furnace]] using one [[wood]] log by a [[dwarf]] with the [[Wood burning|Wood Burning]] [[labour]] enabled. [[Skill|Skill levels]] in the [[wood burner|Wood Burner]] [[skill]] are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

::* Required Building - [[Wood furnace]]
::* Required Labour enabled - [[Wood burning]]
::* Required Material - [[Wood]]

===Coke, from bituminous coal or lignite===

:Coke is a type of refined coal, and is identical to charcoal for all game purposes. It is created at a [[smelter]] using one unit of fuel by a [[dwarf]] with the [[Furnace operating|Furnace Operating]] labour enabled. [[Skill|Skill levels]] in the [[Furnace operator|Furnace Operator]] skill are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

:Coke can be created from [[bituminous coal]], producing 3 coke (net gain of 2 fuel), or [[lignite]], producing 2 coke (net gain of 1 fuel). Magma smelters do not require conventional fuel for this process, and so the net yield for each is effectively +1 greater.

::*Required Building - [[Smelter]]
::*Required Labour enabled - [[Furnace operating]]
::*Required Material - [[Bituminous coal]] or [[lignite]]
::::::: - ''plus'' one unit of fuel per unit smelted, if at a conventional smelter

== Magma facilities ==

Magma replaces conventional fuel for [[magma smelter]]s, [[magma forge]]s, [[magma kiln]]s and [[magma furnace]]s. No fuel is needed, nor can be used, for activities at these facilities. Note that you will still need charcoal or coke for smelting bars of [[pig iron]] and [[steel]]. (And see next section.)

== Pig iron and steel production ==

Note that when [[smelting]] [[pig iron]] or [[steel]] at any location, one unit of either charcoal or coke is required in the reaction. Again, there is no distinction - both charcoal and coke serve equally well in the production of [[bar]]s of either. That same one unit can simultaneously serve as the fuel for the activity at conventional (non-magma) smelters, so there is no savings at [[magma smelter]]s in producing these two materials - one (and only one) charcoal or coke is consumed each time, either way. See those articles for more information.

----
'''See Also:'''
:* [[Smelting]]

[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Materials]]

40d Talk:Fortress defense

2009-05-13T00:11:41Z

Smartmo:

i ve seen discussions bout "moats/pits" here and there - why not simply use an empty channel? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:07, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Style, mostly. Well, that and an empty channel isn't deadly to anyone falling into it (Which can happen on occasion in a big bunch of enemies.) For most things, though, an empty channel backed by a wall to prevent projectile fire is sufficient. --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Non-lethality can be a good thing, in case your own dwarves fall in. Just trap the exit(s), and it's still lethal to attackers. Or, if you're really determined to make it lethal to everyone, just channel a huge pit too deep for anything to survive. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 00:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Planning for building destroyers ==

So, apart from doors (and things like workshops) what can a building destroyer monster break through? Do I have to worry about a [[magma man]] breaking through the wall grate filter in my magma supply, or a [[troll]] busting through my arrow slits (= fortifications)? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen them destroy ballistas, statues and hatch covers. They probably can destroy anything that can be built. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:10, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I got a [[bronze colossus]] to play with and did some testing. (They really do regenerate quickly!)

Things destroyed:
*iron/steel/stone doors (gone)
*stone wall grate (gone)
*trade depot (deconstructed into rough stones)
*glass statues (deconstructed only, they were sitting next to where they were installed; game says "toppled")
*vertical steel bars (deconstructed only; "toppled")

Things not destroyed:
*constructed or carved walls and fortifications (ignored)
*rope (for holding guard dogs; it walked right over)
*drawbridge (walked across; ignored while up)

Science! [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:04, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

: I was under the impression that a bronze colossus would destroy constructed walls/fortifications if they are the only way to get to dwarves. This is also claimed in the unpolished [[fortifications]] page. Is that true? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:40, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Armed Civilians ==
I tried the armed civilian stuff, but an unfortunate side effect is that hunters seem to sleep anywhere except in their beds. Also the forums suggest giving 'fake' woodcutting or mining jobs so that civilians carry pick-axes or battle-axes. This does not address the armor issue, though. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:35, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add that it's possible to be mistaken about having no wildlife to hunt! Not all wildlife is present when you embark, there's some random appearances of things like macaques from the edge of the map. It doesn't have to be MUCH wildlife to be disruptive to this plan, either. Ever see 13 dwarves hunting one alligator, with maces? Gah. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:57, 21 December 2008 (EST)!
::It is true that wildlife constantly changes, but it is possible to have no ''huntable'' wildlife. On a beach map, I had several roving schools of cod. Nothing else. Just lots and lots of cod. I have tried to kill some of them, but so far I have gotten nothing but cod on that map. It should be noted that these cod were way out in the middle of the ocean.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

==Use of User Names in Defense Designs==
May I suggest we not use them. Sure, someone may have been the first one to propose it on the wiki, but that doesn't mean others haven't thought about it before (in the case of the trapped chained animal somewhere away from your fort, I know I've seen that on the forums before, and its identical to the 'Roach Motel' from [[Defense guide]]), and it doesn't mean that you're some kind of genius to have thought of it.

Its not like I haven't provided novel suggestions (including on this page), but it seems wrong to lay claim to them. A lot of it has to do with understanding how the game works and the solutions proceed logically from that.

As such, I am removing usernames from the subsection titles. I don't feel they're appropriate. If people disagree, lets discuss it here, but the wiki is not about self-aggrandizement, its about providing information about what works and what doesn't. Who first wrote about it on the wiki shouldn't be relevant. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:54, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:I wouldn't have put my name if others weren't already there for ages. Nor did I ever think any of the names were really laying claim to inventing these things. I don't give a damn if my name's there or not, and accusing me of self-aggrandizement is a little rude. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:43, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::Sidestepping the issue of accusations, I agree with Squirrelloid that names are best left off article pages. It interferes with collaborative writing that is the core of the wiki model -- you can't freely rewrite what someone else has written if it says "I wrote and/or designed this".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:00, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::I did not specifically call you out Corona nor did I speculate on any particular poster's motives. I can see how you may have necessarily read my comment as implying such, however, and I apologize for that. Peace? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:37, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:Further vote of agreement on [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]'s action. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:36, 24 December 2008 (EST)

:Even more agreement. Barring outstanding complaint, we'll stick with this modified version. --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 06:39, 25 December 2008 (EST)

== Merging in other articles and defining what this page should be ==
Currently, there's this page, the [[defense guide]], and [[fortifications]] all doing approximately the same thing. What we need to do is better define what goes where, and what articles are actually necessary. I'd suggest merging most of the current articles into this one, and then taking all the specific defensive design strategies and putting them in a seperate page, similar to how [[bedroom designs]] is separate from [[bedroom]]. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 00:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

:I noticed that too when I was working on "siege engines" - repeated redundant duplication over and over again. I suggest (in line with your thoughts?) that this topic, "fortress defense", should be more abstract and theoretical, and more specific topics and examples have their own page(s). "Defense Designs" could be the equivalent of "bedroom design", with specifics. (Maybe a new category, "designs"?) The article starts well, with "fortification based" - but then never follows up with any other "X-, Y-, and Z-based" alternative approaches to that. The last few topics on this page are what I think it should be - general approaches, theory, points to consider. The examples of "reverse battlements" and the winding entryway are too specific, and with few alternative examples (or at least for an intro page like this). The graphics for the flooded entryway are not clear at all imo.

:I think, on this page, something like these sections could be included, each short with a ''general'' discussion, perhaps with (at most) one simple example:
:: 1) Plan ahead: Topography, natural barriers & dangers, growth, pro-con of walls vs trenches, ranges for weapons, etc.
:: 2) Weapons at your disposal - active vs passive, barriers, bridges, traps, melee troops, archers, siege weapons, guard dogs, water, magma, pits, & etc.
:: 3) Different threats - wild animals, thieves & snatchers, sieges, mega-beasts. Also flying critters, magma critters, GCS.
:: 4) Defending... your entryway, your outdoor buildings/areas, your forest (or outdoor workers), your inner fortress (2nd line of defense), your troops.
:: 5) Philosophies - "hall of traps", "crossbow death", "go turtle until it passes", "wall/channel your own private Idaho", "Mano a mano!", "kill zones", "complex entry traps", etc etc. (Names subject to change, natch)

:''Then'', tied to each of those, links relevant to those ideas, with (hopefully) multiple and varying examples for each.

:(Also, can we all agree to delete that chatty crap toward the very end? The trite Mayor and Trader exchange?) ;( I'd be happy to rewrite it so it's actually informative on the topic. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::In general, I like this direction. It's very similar to the current [[defense guide]], though. If we are going to keep two separate pages, we need to better define what goes on what page. Personally, I think we could just merge the two together, and I don't really care which page is kept and which page becomes a redirect.
::We definitely need a page like Defense designs, but it should also have stuff like the armed civilian section and other tips, so I'm not sure the name Defensive designs is accurate.
::And yes, I'll get rid of that mayor/trader exchange. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 01:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Refined coal

2009-05-13T00:00:51Z

Smartmo: Clarification on magma furnace using fuel for steel

'''Refined coal''' and '''coal fuel''' are two in-game terms that refer to any unit of charcoal or coke, the two fuels used to power high-temperature industries, namely metalworking and glassworking. One unit of either of these fuels is required for every task at a conventional (non-magma) [[smelter]], [[forge]], [[kiln]], or [[glass furnace]]. Magma versions of these facilities do not need fuel, and in fact cannot use conventional fuel to power them if their magma sources fail.

''(Note that [[Bituminous coal]] is '''not''' a "refined coal" or "coal fuel", though it is directly related.)''

== "Fuel" ==

Though not seen in-game, the single word "fuel" is sometimes used informally in the forums and in various wiki articles in place of the in-game terms "refined coal" or "coal fuel". Since some understandable confusion can arise over the usage of the various terms "'''refined coal'''", "'''coal fuel'''", "'''charcoal'''" and "'''coke'''" (and also "[[bituminous coal]]", which is ''not'' a fuel), the simple umbrella term "fuel" will be used in the explanations in this article.

The two sub-types of fuel are ''charcoal'' and ''coke'', and they are identical for in-game purposes, even if they come from different sources and have different in-game names. Whenever you see "coal fuel" or "refined coal", those refer to ''either'' charcoal or coke - they are interchangeable, and either one will serve the same purpose, as fuel for the desired activity.

Both charcoal and coke come in [[block]]s, and are stockpiled in the Bars/Block [[stockpile]] under the "coal" entry. There is currently no way (nor need) to distinguish between the two when designating stockpiles.

At the risk of repetition, but to be perfectly clear - ''despite the different names, there is no distinction between charcoal and coke for any game activities.'' Both are "refined coal" or "coal fuel", or just "fuel".

Charcoal and coke are ''not'' [[fire-safe]] building materials.

== In-game usage ==

At a conventional (non-magma) smelter, if you try to add a smelting task and have no fuel, you will see the message:

<blockquote>"'''Must have coal fuel'''"</blockquote>

You will not be allowed to add any tasks to any conventional smelter until you have at least one unit of either charcoal or coke.

If you have queued up several tasks and then run out of fuel, you will get an announcement similar to:

<blockquote>"'''[[Urist|Urist McFuelUser]] cancels job: Needs refined coal.'''"</blockquote>

Note that a forge or glass furnace ''will'' let you add tasks if you have no fuel, and only once a dwarf arrives and finds they cannot complete that task will you get the announcement to that effect. You will get one announcement for each un-fueled task that is unable to be completed. Jobs are canceled when there is no fuel.

When you get either of these messages, you need more fuel - either charcoal or coke will serve equally well.

== The two sub-types of fuel ==

There are 2 sub-types of conventional fuel - [[charcoal]] and [[coke]]. Charcoal and coke are identical in use - one unit of either one powers one activity at a conventional smelter, forge, kiln or glass furnace. The only difference is their source.

[[Wood]] does not burn hot enough to fuel these activities or facilities, and (in Dwarf Fortress) you cannot burn [[bituminous coal]] or [[lignite]] that has been mined and not refined in a smelter (altho' they are flammable).

=== Charcoal, from wood===

:Charcoal is created at a [[wood furnace]] using one [[wood]] log by a [[dwarf]] with the [[Wood burning|Wood Burning]] [[labour]] enabled. [[Skill|Skill levels]] in the [[wood burner|Wood Burner]] [[skill]] are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

::* Required Building - [[Wood furnace]]
::* Required Labour enabled - [[Wood burning]]
::* Required Material - [[Wood]]

===Coke, from bituminous coal or lignite===

:Coke is a type of refined coal, and is identical to charcoal for all game purposes. It is created at a [[smelter]] using one unit of fuel by a [[dwarf]] with the [[Furnace operating|Furnace Operating]] labour enabled. [[Skill|Skill levels]] in the [[Furnace operator|Furnace Operator]] skill are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

:Coke can be created from [[bituminous coal]], producing 3 coke (net gain of 2 fuel), or [[lignite]], producing 2 coke (net gain of 1 fuel). Magma smelters do not require conventional fuel for this process, and so the net yield for each is effectively +1 greater.

::*Required Building - [[Smelter]]
::*Required Labour enabled - [[Furnace operating]]
::*Required Material - [[Bituminous coal]] or [[lignite]]
::::::: - ''plus'' one unit of fuel per unit smelted, if at a conventional smelter

== Magma facilities ==

Magma replaces conventional fuel for [[magma smelter]]s, [[magma forge]]s, [[magma kiln]]s and [[magma furnace]]s. No fuel is needed, nor can be used, for activities at these facilities. Note that you will still need fuel for smelting [[steel]].

== Pig iron and steel production ==

Note that when [[smelting]] [[pig iron]] or [[steel]], one unit of either charcoal or coke is required in the reaction. Again, there is no distinction - both charcoal and coke serve equally well in the production of [[bar]]s of either. That same one unit can simultaneously serve as the fuel for the activity at conventional (non-magma) smelters, so there is no savings at [[magma smelter]]s in producing these two materials - one (and only one) charcoal or coke is consumed each time, either way. See those articles for more information.

----
'''See Also:'''
:* [[Smelting]]

[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Materials]]

40d Talk:Expedition leader

2009-05-12T23:54:23Z

Smartmo: /* Merging */

Is it known if a dwarf's personality traits currently affect their social skills? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:45, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== choosing, ==

for me the one who is chosen is the first dwarf, is this for anyone else? --[[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]] 02:05, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

: Not consistently IME. In one of my recent games, where I'd chosen the starting skills on the assumption that the first dwarf will be the leader, that turned out not to be the case. Since then I've been assigning my chosen leader a level of the [[Judge of Intent]] skill, which seems to have been working pretty consistently (although it's only been a handful of embarkations since). --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
::I heard somewhere that the [[Manager]] skill weights the leader choosing pretty heavily, and that's been my experience. I've had dwarves with high Judge of Intent get passed over, but once I throw the (otherwise unnecessary, it builds so fast) Manager skill in there, they're almost always picked. If they're not, don't worry. They'll be replaced by the mayor soon enough, and all the more important starting noble positions (like [[Broker]]) can be replaced by the player on the nobles screen. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 11:39, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

==Merging==

Can't this section simply be merged into the Mayor section? They're the same position with the same duties. This one is just the level "below". (SirPenguin, May 11 2009)

:One is indeed just a continuation and expansion of the other - that would need to be made clear. While there are diffs, there is also much info the same that could be combined. It would require a second sidebar to be consistent with the formatting on other pages, since the requirements for the two are different. I can't think of a good reason not to combine them, other than style - it's certainly not too much info for one page. (Unless adding that second side template would be a problem?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

::I agree, a merging is needed. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 23:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-05-12T03:34:44Z

Smartmo: /* Failure to comply */ new section

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Sorting nobles ==
I find it rather silly to have the Expedition leader in the ''Appointed'' section just to be immediately told (s)he can not be appointed. I'm too newbie in terms of nobles to draft sections that make sense, but I feel this needs changing.[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:23, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.

40d Talk:Phantom spider

2009-05-11T04:43:25Z

Smartmo: /* Tamed Spiders */

I'm not going to change anything back, but I've not had a single problem with being poisoned, or attacked in general by them. The only times I've seen them have been in colder climates, although I guess I could have been lucky. They also seem to occur with great frequency with werewolves, I've been able to pick the last 3 maps with both of them consistently. --[[User:Gotthard|Gotthard]] 19:19, 26 November 2007

:Well, they have similiar tags to cave spiders, and people do have trouble with those, so it seems you did get lucky. They occur in both temperate and tropical forests. They probably occur with werewolves because werewolves have the EVIL and ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST tags, too. I don't mean to shoot you down or anything, I'm just stating what the game definition says about them. If one of your dwarves does get bitten, let us know how long the effect lasts...purely in the interest of science, of course. ;-) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:39, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Yeah, I'm not familiar with the raws, but given the case of bauxite (I think) which seems to show up intermittently even with raw editing, I'm wondering if Phantom spiders/werewolves have this same problem. Perhaps I am lucky, or terrifying cold has less creatures than terrifying temperate, making it more likely werewolves and phantom spiders show up, I'm not sure. Just thought it was a wierd coincidence. Has anyone actually been bitten by one of them? I seem to be able to wander the map with hapless abandon; not a single casualty or warning message.

Is it possible to embark on a site with both phantom and cave spiders? It seems to me like phantom spiders only generate in evil forest ''regions,'' not biomes, which don't contain underground pools/rivers. --[[User:Syff|Syff]] 03:53, 14 December 2008 (EST)
=Tamed Spiders=
Do tamed Phantom Spiders still weave webs? I was thinking it might be neat to tame 10-15 of them and have a self-contained silk factory in the fortress. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:18, 19 January 2009 (EST)
:I am testing this first chance I get. A silk factory is too awesome an idea to pass up. Especially if the spiders are tame and therefore non-aggressive. Also, a side note to the above conversation: if what the main page says is to be believed, their poison is only really dangerous if there's other predators lurking about, otherwise it just slows production. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 04:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Undead

2009-05-09T22:42:59Z

Smartmo: /* Hammer vs Axe */ new section

One question: I had two dwarves that were not always occupied hunt small zombies and skeletons (hoary marmots, mountain goat and such). Apart from getting really good at wrestling, they both seemed to gain "Is used to tragedy" as a character trait. Can anyone confirm that? -- [[User:qwertyu|qwertyu]] 12:34, 9 March 2008 (CET)

:That always happens regardless of what they are killing.

:Should we include the fact that attempting to pit undead animals of any kind will result in them attacking the moment they are released, regardless of how close they are to the pit. (They can be right next to it but still attack the pit-ter once they are out of the cages)
:--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 07:39, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::I believe we should put it in as a warning to those who attempt to put captured undead in pits.
::--Rickola

:::Should it be mentioned that the Undead versions are much more tougher than 'normal' creatures, once I had an entire fortress wiped out by a single Undead Racoon. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I think zombies are a lot harder than skeletons. Maybe undead horses are just absurdly hard anyway, but I put all seven of my starting dwarves on a single zombie horse. Sure, they were untrained and unarmored and were wrestling it to death (except for the miners), but all seven dwarves went from untrained in wrestling to novice wrestlers, became tired/exhausted, AND two dwarves died and three got yellow/red injuries, before that single zombie horse went down. Then the other four zombie horses wandered in... Skeletons seem to be a lot easier to kill. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 04:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Though zombies are easy to run away from. My dwarves sidestep zombies whenever they see them (which is often, on my current map), but skeletons would corner them. Zombies are, however, famously difficult to kill by wrestling. Use an axe or sword.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::::Zombies are utterly impossible to kill with wrestling. The only wrestling move that can kill at all is strangling, and zombies don't breathe or bleed. Dwarves set to wrestle undead will only ever destroy them with punches. If you're heading into an evil biome, I'd recommend bringing a well-armed macedwarf! That'll teach 'em to stay dead, pretty darn quick. Swords aren't so good, spears and picks even worse, though axes will do okay. In a pinch, at least make your dwarves shields to bash with. It's a matter of raw damage. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Skeleton Corpse ==

I have a Skeleton Horse Corpses. That's not normal, right? It appears to have fallen several levels into a river. Adjacent to it (well... adjacent if you ignore the z-difference) are bridge squares and weapon traps. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 11:55, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

:I saw [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22793.0 this report] a while ago on the bugs board. May be worth resurrecting it (especially if you can supply saves)? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, just noticed it wasn't on the bugs board, but on the gameplay questions board. May be worth starting a thread on the bugs board then? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:49, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, the board. I hadn't even looked at that yet. Anyway, the person you linked to posted in the bugs board too, so I guess this is known. I didn't think of getting a save... --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 07:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Skeletal creatures ==

I was told that skeletal creatures would lose their limbs whenever they hit broken status. Is this true?

As another note, if that is true, I have a bug that occured. Under the assumption broken bones = removed bones for the skeletons, one of my hammerdwarves hit a skeletal dragon so hard that its upper body was instantly mangled, skipping the broken (and thusly removed) state entirely.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Assuming the 'sever on break' tag applies to skeletons, it only applies to limbs. You can't 'sever' a torso. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

==Undead Megabeasts ==

Could this be elaborated on a bit? I've never seen an undead megabeast in the legends screen. How does this work? How rare is it (absurdly rare, I guess)? [[User:Lastofthelight|Lastofthelight]]

:I've had a zombie Titan... no idea why it was a zombie but it was the only megabeast i'd seen. Really, megabeasts are far too rare now that they can be killed off in world gen. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:29, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::Agreed. Somehow, I've managed to avoid seeing a megabeast entirely as of yet. Zombies and skeletons are hard enough to find; megabeasts are nearly impossible.

::To be honest, I'm really hoping Toady hurries up and brings back the undead event that was talked about in [[Core components]]. That is, undead dwarves and pets that died in your fortress would pop through the floor and attack you. Spooky. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 07:10, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Zombie Gas Warfare ==

It should be noted that "live" zombies also spread miasma if they are indoors. I have seen this on several occasions, but all with zombie fire imps, so I can't actually confirm that it happens with other zombie types.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 02:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Undead Building Destroyer ==
I have seen evidence that skeletal creatures have building destroyer. Has anyone had any experience with this or more evidence of it happening? Do they also trapavoid? If undead creatures do destroy buildings normally, it should be on the page, yes? -- [[User:CultOfTheRaven|CultOfTheRaven]] 18:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Hammer vs Axe ==

After getting my 7 starting dwarves torn apart by a pack of skeletal muskox, I'd like to know just in case it happens again: what is more effective against undead, slashing or bludgeoning? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-08T05:32:39Z

Smartmo: Deleted my comment. I am an idiot.

40d Talk:Trap

2009-05-06T17:20:26Z

Smartmo: /* Stop dwarves from automaticaly cleaning traps and getting killed. */

== Cage traps clarification ==

I think I know the answer, but are ANY sort of cages suitable for trapping any kind of invading monster (except those that evade traps altogether, such as kobalds). The page mentions a glass trap catching a colossus, but will that also apply to a rickety wooden trap? I haven't produced any glass. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. I've had a bronze colossus trapped in an Ashen Cage before. I don't think creatures care what you trap them in.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== cage traps for food ==
Couldn't one generate a mild supplementary food source by putting cage traps out on the map at random? Or create rows of them to catch aggressive creatures that are chasing down a fleeing dwarf. The ability to place them on the surface has some interesting possibilities. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 04:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)

: You can really do this with any kind of trap now - I built a 1 tile wide stair/corridor up an exposed cliff face, and as I was concerned about goblins and the like I stonefall-trapped it. Ever since then some of the local wildlife has used it to get up and down the 5 z-level cliff, with predictable and hilarious results. The goats just die, but the marmots are hurled off the cliff face to splatter on the ground below. It's a nice easy meat/leather/fat source, as well as being entertaining "Dwarfy McDwarf cancels reload stone trap - interrupted by (flying) hoary marmot" [[User:Acama|Acama]] 19:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==berserk dwarves==
Will berserk dwarves set off pressure plates? Toady mentioned he was going to stop that from happening [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On a possibly related note, pets CAN set off traps. Although in my experience the pet has to be falling unconscious to do so. [[User:Anonymousphrase|Anonymousphrase]] 22:43, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

[[image:Pet_setting_off_trap.png]]

It may also be the case that you can also get pets killed by a trap if they're in the square when a hostile sets off the trap. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 12:42, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

==flooding a spiked pit==
Will flooding a spiked pit break or cancel the spike trap? I'd test this, but I don't have the channel dug in yet. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:confirmed that flooding doesn't affect spear/spike traps. [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 17:52, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure the "corpse stuck in trap" chance is 50%, according to Toady either on IRC or some forgotten forum post a few months back. I really can't remember for sure. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:31, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:Do spike traps stop functioning if a corpse gets stuck in them, or can you just retract and continue using as usual? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:11, 9 December 2008 (EST)

==cage traps/ fire imps==
I've secured the entries oy my magma furnaces with cage traps, but it seems that the fire imps just walk through.
Just as the Giant moles did. How so? --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
:supposedly there is a bug that causes any creatures on the map when it is generated to count as residents, and thus know where your traps are and not trigger them. I've never run into the problem myself, but I've never specifically tested for it so I can't really say for sure if it still exists (or ever did). --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 07:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:I had read about this and tried it out with a trapped coridoor next to my magma vent - an imp I tempted out walked right through 4 cage traps and 4 stonefall traps without triggering them. Seems like indigenous life is currently trap-immune. Most magma creatures can be dealt with by a few marksdwarves though, so you're only in serious trouble if you have a herd of skeletal hippos on your map on embark.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 15:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::There's always the menacing spike + lever combo. And pits. [[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 16:08, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've killed fire imps and magmamen with stone fall traps --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:20, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've caught native fire imps in cage traps loaded with green glass terrariums. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 21:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

==Trolls and Cages==
I'm planning on making the only passage to my fortress filled with cage traps, but I'm not sure if dwarves going out and migrants and traders coming in will be affected by them. Does anyone know? Also, do trolls smash goblin cages? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Only hostile units will trigger traps. Trolls only smash buildings and after a goblin is captured the cage is not built. So the answer to your second question is no. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 21:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Make sure to forbid the traps when the siege starts. Otherwise your dwarves will rush out to reload them and store all the cages. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:53, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Thieves and trap avoidance==
Is it possible that Kobold thieves/Goblin master thieves can also trigger traps? I think I killed one and caged another master thief in the past. Maybe the quality of the mechanism is important here? --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:goblin thieves, both regular and master, have always triggered traps -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:18, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

::So why does the article then say "Sneaking enemies do not trigger traps"? Goblin master thieves seem very sneaky to me. --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:33 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:::once goblin thieves are revealed they are captured fine. even revealed kobolds dont trigger. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: At least "normal" goblin thieves are scewered fine without being detected, says my weapon trap --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: I have to agree with Koltom, I got an "Ambush" event when a goblin (master) thief went into a cage trap, and had another one cut to pieces by a serrated disc, which I only noticed when suddenly all my dwarves rushed off to remove his clothes. --[[User Quertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:31 (UTC+1)
:::: Weapon traps apparently have a chance of friendly fire. At least, that's what the ghost of my Kitten(tame) told me... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 18:48, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== Crossbow Trap? ==

How does a crossbow trap work? Does it have line of sight, like a Dwarf? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

Ranged weapons in weapon traps work much the same as melee weapons do, attacking the creature which triggered the trap. The only real difference in functionality seems to be that they require and use up appropriate ammunition, and (according to the article) do not get occasionally stuck and need cleaning like melee weapons in a weapon trap do. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 21:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

How much ammo gets loaded into a crossbow trap? I have 10 individual bolts in one and a stack of 39 in another. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:48, 24 November 2008 (EST)

:I assume they load it with whatever stack is close at hand. They'd probably load it with a 1-er if you don't forbid used ammo.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:07, 24 November 2008 (EST)

== Trapping cave dwellers ==

Has anyone sucessfully caged a cave dwelling megabeast? I have tried on two seperate maps to capture a minotaur and an ettin, both times the monster just run right through the cage traps. Perhaps creatures that are spawned on embark are bugged immune to traps?

as said above, some creatures that spawn on the map dont seem to be caught in traps. however, i successfully caught and with the dugeon master, tamed, a giant cave spider that was living in my chasm. I designated it as available for a pet. a legendary engraver adopted it, so i drafted him and am training him up now. hopefully the giant cave spider that now follows him everywhere will be happy to defend its owner against goblins. megabeasts that spawn and attack you can be caged, in fact, its the easiest way by far to deal with them. some, like dragons can then be tamed. im assuming your etin and minotaur fall under the aforementioned bug... try a later game version. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 13:04, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

==Weapon Trap Jamming==
The page says crossbow weapon traps don't jam, but what about a trap with a crossbow and a melee weapon? Does the crossbow still fire if the trap jams? Or does a trap have to be pure crossbows to avoid jamming? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:21, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well, it jams in my experience as of 40d, I tried mixed trap, when something jams, the whole trap stops [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 18:26, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Trap betrayals? ==

Has anyone else been betrayed by their own traps? I had a dog and a crossbowman killed by weapons traps. Serrated iron disks ripped through their bodies like the bloody tusks of enraged elephants.

Correction. A dog, a crossbowman, and a miner. Will the slaughter never end?--[[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 12:08, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed that traps tend to fire on people/animals with injuries. They've killed lots of 3 legged dogs for me, and a soldier that was dragging himself off the field.

: Traps will (also) trip for any and all unconscious individuals. That may be or be one of the reasons. [[User:Drawf irons|Drawf irons]] 20:53, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

::Does that include dead individuals? And is it possible to get my dead dog out of his cage? --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 01:32, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Mark it for dumping? That's usually the solution as to how to get anything out of anywhere! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:34, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Trap Question ==

I recently received the message that there was a goblin snatcher in my fortress. It zoomed the page to one of the 3 cage traps. I took the game off pause and it gave me the same message again. Now I have two cave traps sprung, and when I press "k" and go over them, one says : "goblin cage (Larch)" and the other says "Goblin cage(nickel)". Does this mean I have successfully caught the scoundrels? Or are they still at large?

:If there is a flashing 'g' then yes, if no than It could be possibly a bug.[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:25, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Stone Fall Update: Watch Out!! ==

This is as of release '''0.28.181.39f''': in the past hour I saw two of my own dwarves - both normal healthy members of society - get killed in two different stone fall traps I'd had set up. Clearly, the old rule that dwarves are immune to their own traps is no longer entirely accurate...unless there's a bug going on here? Has anyone else fallen prey to this occurrence? [[User:Grand marquis|Grand marquis]] 06:31, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

:See two sections up. :P Anything unconscious will trigger traps currently - did those dwarves fall asleep on the trap square maybe? I've changed the section on triggering traps, so it gives at least a little hint that backfiring is now possible! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:33, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Room of Spiky Death ==
Alright, after a long, long time, I finally got myself a gross(144) of menacing green glass spikes. I'm planning to put them in airlock area of my castle, so that I can trap the goblins who have been annoying me and spike them to death. Each trap will use ten spikes, and there are 14 of them. There's an animal planted as bait, and once I raise both draw bridges, there's no way out. Can anyone tell me if there is something I should know before embarking on this death spree? -[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 14:47, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes. Be prepared for blood. lots and lots of blood. also, it will be awesome.--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 00:56, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stop dwarves from automaticaly cleaning traps and getting killed. ==

its in the title. first big siege comes in, hits the first line of traps in my entry hall of death, and then half the fortress runs out en mass to clean them, getting killed by the goblins in front and the ballista bolts from behind. they also block my military from getting past. this is agonizing! children, peasants, legendary craftsdwarves and nobles all are susceptible. aaaaarrrrrrggh! --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 17:35 30 September 2008 UTC
:Lock the doors. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:49, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
:Forbid the traps, at least until the siege is over. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 17:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Caged Creatures and Loot ==

''In this case remove the poor fellow using the goblin's inventory screen.''

I just caught my first goblin in my outer line of defenses! It wasn't even complete yet. *dances* Only, I can't seem to access the bugger's inventory screen. How get his goods off him without killing him? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 04:12, 7 November 2008 (EST)
:Mark the bag (or whatever) he's holding for dumping via the stocks screen. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:29, 7 November 2008 (EST)

== weapon trap ==

anyone got a good combo for a weapon trap setup? I have magma so my last line of defense is a 3x3 grid of serrated green glass disk weapon traps- with ten each. It is generally a one-hit-kill, if they make it past my cage trap field. Anyway, share some good weapon combos here. Good meaning easily producible yet deadly, or really effective.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:47, 5 December 2008 (EST)

: Bone crossbows trap, nuff said, all you need are some stones, and breeding pairs, and off ya go. Might be a bit high-maintance, but it never jams, and as long as you still have animals and stone around, you can make more of 'em, and fill 'em with just animals. -- [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 01:46, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:I tend to do 2-3 of whatever weapon I've got on hand per trap. This is usually either glass weapons that I've been making to train a glassmaker or silver or copper weapons that I've been training a weaponsmith on. Weapon traps reset quickly between attacks, so a line of 2- or 3-weapon traps 3-4 deep is usually plenty. And why go through the trouble of reloading traps just to avoid an occasional jam? Save your bone bolts for training marksdwarves. IMO.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Metal tend to be in short supply in early fortresses, and those with lack of wood to burn through. Beside the jamlessness is just a bonus, nicely balanced by the difficulity of keeping it supplied. Breeding pairs of animals are cheap and counts as renewable resource, they provides food, leather and bone, as long as there're enough breeding pairs to keep going. Animal husbandery can be slightly complicated with a -lot- of animals but the benefit is you have armour, weapon and food resource no matter where you go ( And as long as there're enough of 'em to breed ). It's really more player preference and avaliable resources so YMMV! (Plus last I recall, the only weapons that can be made with bones are crossbows, at least in vanilla DF using dwarves, correct me if I'm wrong, since some maps don't have woods. And some don't have stones but at least you can arm your guys with bone and leather equipments) -- [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 01:30, 10 December 2008 (EST) ed: forget to say that I've had sieges big enough to run through 5 deep of fully loaded glass disc traps, that'd be stopped almost completelly by fully loaded crossbow traps with even bone bolts, but maybe I've just been lucky.

== Dwarven Flame Belcher ==

I'm modding DF to support a flamethrower trap component, and I was wondering whether 'charcoal' is an acceptable ammunition. More specifically, I'm curious what the proper name for refined coal is.

[ITEM_TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_FLAMEBELCHER]
[NAME:flame belcher:flame belchers]
[ADJECTIVE:dwarven]
[DAMAGE:100:HEAT]
[WEIGHT:200]
[HITS:1]
[CRITBOOST:1]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:CHARCOAL]
[METAL]

It's designated as a crossbow because I don' know if RANGED will work without a skill. And so crossbow users in adventure mode can have fun. --[[User:RaguCat|RaguCat]] 14:13, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:If you wanted to be really awesome, you'd have Naptha produceable at an alchemists, and use Naptha as fuel. I suppose you could have Naptha be made from coke and soap, although really you'd need some oil too... but adding oil to the game sounds complicated. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:06, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Spike Trap hit falling goblin ==

I had a spike trap surrounded by walls that I would drop gobbos on from 6 z-levels above; the idea was to stun them and then have a dwarf grind them to death. However, the first goblin I dropped died on impact (previous goblins did not) and got stuck in the spike trap. The trap wasn't being operated at the time. Has spike impact been added? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 18:22, 22 December 2008 (EST)

== Friendlies ''completely'' immune to traps? ==

Unless I'm mistaken, except in a few cases, friendlies are immune to traps; if a friendly unit is on the same tile as a trap and an enemy triggers the trap only the enemy will get hurt. Right? --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

== Traps + Caravans = very bad ==

Today, I had an elven caravan run into my weapon traps... they all died... this may be because they were wounded from goblin ambush but it is still kind of weird, is this a bug? or is it supposed to happen?

Correction: happened twice, first the elven, then a human caravan was ambushed and the same thing happened when they tried to flee to my fortress

:Friendly units can be caught in traps if they lose consciousness, which would usually be due to wounds. Although it could also happen if a dwarf with no bed happened to go to sleep on a trapped tile. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Caged Dwarfs not immortal ==

So the bit about trapping berserk ones instead of killing them needs to be updated out of existence. I fiddeled with a rewrite where in I tried to say it myself, but I'm not very good, so I didn't post it.

User:Smartmo

2009-05-06T15:17:53Z

Smartmo:

I've built a successful fortress on a volcano while embarking without ANY items, skills, or animals. 3 dwarves died to volcano creatures, 1 died of melancholy, and the biome was hot enough to evaporate all water. I will elaborate more if anyone shows any interest.

Future fortress mode projects:

-Start on a glacier.

-Start on a volcano island.

-<s>Build an elaborate construct to fill a fortress of 80+ dwarves with water.</s> '''completed'''

Future adventure mode projects:

-Strangling a(n) elf/dwarf/human with another elf/dwarf/human corpse.

-Keeping a dwarf prone by repeatedly taking him down with a dwarf corpse, while using a dwarf corpse in the other hand to break his bones or otherwise beat him to death.

-Kill someone with an anvil.

-<s>Wrestle a school of carp to death.</s> '''completed'''

-<s>Kill a pack of wolves using nothing but wolf corpses.</s> '''completed'''

Any other [[fun]] ideas? Put it on my [[User Talk:Smartmo|Talk]] Page!

40d Talk:Sliver barb

2009-05-06T15:02:35Z

Smartmo: /* Farming */

taken from [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2669677&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=47]

=Farming=
Can silver barb only be grown in evil biomes? Or once you get the seeds you can grown them in any? [[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 17:26, 13 January 2009 (EST)

I've never actually encountered them, but from what I can tell, you can't obtain the seeds anywhere but an evil biome. I imagine, though, that if you somehow managed to get seeds somewhere else, they would very probably grow just fine. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Ambusher

2009-05-05T18:56:09Z

Smartmo: added verify tag

{{Skill
| color = rgb(0,128,0)
| skill = Ambusher
| speciality = [[Hunter]]
| profession = [[Ranger]]
| job name = Hunting
| tasks =
* Hunt
}}
[[Dwarves]] with the hunting [[labor]] enabled automatically use the '''ambusher''' skill while hunting outside of the fortress, which allows them to sneak up on their prey. Dwarves using the ambush skill move [[speed|slower]], but cannot be seen by enemies.

As an ambusher gets closer to his prey, there is a greater and greater chance he or she will be spotted and stop ambushing. Higher skill allows dwarves to get closer before being spotted, and also increases the speed at which a dwarf can move while sneaking.

In [[adventurer mode]], ambusher skill is gained by moving around while {{key|S}}neaking. This will greatly reduce your [[speed]] just as it does in dwarf mode, but will cause hostile [[creatures]] not to attack you. Until you un{{key|S}}neak or someone spots you, you will gain a small amount of [[experience]] in ambushing with every step. Presently, smashing a creature's skull in with your bare hands does not count as being spotted, so the best way to tell if you're still sneaking is to check your speed in the bottom right of the screen. Ambusher also helps prevent encounters from enemies while traveling on the world map.

== Hunting ==

A hunter picks a mark which he pursues. Upon killing the mark, a hunter will carry it home to the [[butcher's shop]]. A hunter may kill other [[creatures]] that are closer to them than the fleeing mark he is intent on catching. This happens frequently with [[crossbow]]s due to their range. They will ignore the accidental carcass and only bring home a carcass they have marked beforehand. This means that sometimes multiple dead critters per hunt will be lying about and start rotting around the map if you do not set the refuse orders to 'gather refuse from outside' ([[corpse]]s count as refuse). If you do this and have a good system of [[stockpile]]s, available dwarf haulers and a map free of menacing critters (the hunters should accomplish this just fine), then you should have the outside of your fort just as tidy as the inside, and will be able to salvage the corpses.

The same caution is advised to the slaughtering process. Hunters will drop carcasses directly into the butchery, which will make it cluttered very fast. Animals upon being butchered explode into [[chunk]]s, [[meat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, [[fat]] and [[skull]], and the clutter will make the [[butcher]] work many times slower. Stockpiles and haulers are required, or your animal corpses will rot even while in the butchery and you will lose the skin, the meat and the fat ([[food]]). Bones and skulls can be salvaged even from rotting corpses.

If you don't have a good stocking and hauling system, you will not get more than half of the kill, and the [[craftsdwarf]] unfortunate enough to need the bones from the rotted critters will have to go out alone several times to get them every time which places a huge strain on production speed and safety.

You can assign [[hunting dog]]s to [[hunter]]s, as they will sneak just as the hunter. [[War dog]]s die more often for hunters even if they are stronger, since the dogs outrun the sneaking hunter and thus the hunter never gets the first shot and sometimes never even has time to arrive at the combat before the dog is either dead or wounded.

Dwarves can hunt with any [[weapon]], or even unarmed, but a [[crossbow]] is the most sensible choice, due to its range. They will use whatever weapon/armor is assigned to them.{{verify}} (See [[Military]])

You should consider training hunters with [[hammer]]s and in wrestling in order for them to defend themselves. This is because hunters will fight to the death even if they run out of [[bolt]]s. Without bolts, he must fight with the butt of the crossbow which is counted as a weak [[hammer]]. Wrestling is his last resort if the hunter drops his crossbow in the fight. Wrestling will help him to break the jaw-grips that the enemy critter places on him, and will help the dwarf wrestle on his own and even place his own jaw grips if both of his hands are incapacitated.

== Free equipment ==

Any dwarf given ambusher skill at Novice level or better before embarking will get a free set of leather armor (leather armor, leather leggings, leather low or high boots, and leather helm or steel cap); a crossbow (made of copper, bronze, bismuth bronze, iron, or steel); and a quiver with 30-40 steel bolts. All of these items will be of ordinary [[quality]].

This equipment will only be given if ambusher is the dwarf's highest skill; a Proficient Ambusher/Proficient Cook will have [[farmer]] as a profession, and will not receive any equipment. However, ambushers with other [[ranger]] skills, even ones higher than their ambusher skill, will still receive this equipment, as will ambushers with [[military]] skills at any level. (Separately, military skills will not influence what equipment is given: speardwarves will arrive at the site carrying nothing, and speardwarf/ambushers will arrive with the crossbow given to all ambushers. [[Armor user]] and [[shield user]] have no effect either.)

Any [[immigration|immigrating]] rangers with ambusher skill will also receive this equipment.

== Crossbows ==
A hunter armed with a [[crossbow]] will increase both his [[marksdwarf]] and ambusher [[skill]]s.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Potash

2009-05-05T18:52:02Z

Smartmo: /* Using Potash */

==Using Potash==
I assume that only [[planter]]s apply potash to [[farm plots]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:49, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

== Why? ==
How useful is potash to your farming production? Is it good enough to even bother with? I don't generally run out of food, but I guess this would allow me to use fewer seeds, fewer farmers, and less space. Also, how long does it take to fertilize crops, and does it impede actual planting? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 18:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Creature token

2009-05-03T02:22:01Z

Smartmo: /* Elf Cannibals */ new section

==Children==
Does anyone know which tag cause an animal to breed? I believe it's either [CHILD:] or [CHILDNAME:][[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 18:18, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
*[CHILD:?] sets the age that a child becomes an adult, [CHILDNAME:?] sets what children are called, example, calf instead of bull. [[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009
*I can most definitely say the tag that allows breeding is [CHILD:]. [[User:Smew|Smew]] 26 April 2009

== HOW DO I SHOT WEB? ==
first, does [WEBBER] imply the ability to shoot web, make webs or both?
second (assuming the answer to at least one of the above is true), how would one use this in adventure mode?{{user:yrael/sig|DATE=12:45, 14 May 2008 (EDT)}}
*it adds the ability to shoot web, but creatures will only shoot web at other creatures they are hostile to.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 18:16, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::Impossible to shoot webs in adventure mode--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

== MAGICAL ==

I think this tag was meant for creatures not from natural origin. Its the same as Natural, but elves might react differently to it. 
-Booken 06:22, 26 April 2008 (EST)

== ITEMCORPSE ==

(see [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000602 this forum thread])

[ITEMCORPSE:<type>:<subtype>:<material>:<matgloss>]

Does the sub-type field actually have a use, or is the only option "NO_SUBTYPE"?

Anyway, the USE_RACEGLOSS for the matgloss field seems to only work for some (built-in?) materials. For example, the [[Treant|Treants]] use the entry:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:USE_RACEGLOSS]
[[Treant|Treants]] will appear as "Mahogany treant", "Oak treant", etc.

However, when using a custom matgloss file, this functionality stops working, and treants (and there log remains) are undescriptive. I've tried creating a ''matgloss_treant.txt'' file and adding a few unique entries, like [MATGLOSS_WOOD:FOOBAR_TREE] and [MATGLOSS_WOOD:BAZ_TREE], and editing the [Treant] to:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:TREANT]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:USE_RACEGLOSS]
...this doesn't seem to do anything. If I want the [[Treant]] to leave special remains, like my Foobar Tree, I have to change the creature tokens to:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:TREANT]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:FOOBAR_TREE]
But here, I can only have "Foobar treants".

:The subtype field has a use for types with subtypes; for example, weapons or vermin. See [[item tokens]] for the few item types that have subtypes.
:The "WOOD" in [HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD] isn't a user-definable category; it matches the "WOOD" in MATGLOSS_WOOD. So you could probably set it to [HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD], [HAS_RACEGLOSS:STONE], [HAS_RACEGLOSS:METAL], or [HAS_RACEGLOSS:PLANT], but that's it.
:[[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

== PACK_ANIMAL ==

Anybody happen to know anything about the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag? I noticed that [[muskox|muskoxen]], [[mule|mules]] and [[donkey|donkeys]] all share this distinction. I also noticed someone in the [[muskox]] page had said that muskoxen could serve as haulers. Has Toady implemented a tag for animal haulers and sneaked it past everyone? Perhaps they can only perform this function if they serve as a pet to haulers? Or is it simply that merchants can carry goods on them? [[User:Some1else|Some1else]] 01:05, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:It's only merchants, I believe. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

== VERMIN_ tags ==

Made a new creature with VERMIN_CHASM and it spit out an unrecognised token message in my errorlog. Can someone confirm these work? Preferrably by pointing to a creature that has them? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 18:57, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:thats leftover from 2d. bats and such used to have it, but now have a biome tag instead -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 19:09, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks. Do we know if that applies to any of the others? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 18:29, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Tried to make a dwarf mode playable race with the [VERMIN_HUNTER] tag, and they went hungry. Took it away and they ate normal food again. Seems that when this tag is in place, the race will ONLY eat vermin. Have noted this in the entry.18:22, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Litter size ==

I've been testing the [LITTER_SIZE] token, and according to my tests it indeed affects the number of children. I set a creature to have 5-10 litter size and it did indeed produce 6 and 7 children, while another creature had 3-5 and produced 3-5 children. I'm gonna remove the "untested" tag from the wiki, feel free to tell me off if it proves otherwise.--[[IUser:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 23:14, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

== Redirect ==

In conformance with the [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]], I think this page should be moved to [[Creature tokens]]. It can keep the plural because people are usually concerned with all of the tokens instead of just one. Thoughts? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:26, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

== defender ==

"DEFENDER Appears from the glowing pits after the magma river."

After the magma river? This seems to be left over from the 2d version, does this token still exist? If so we might want to adjust its description to the newest version
:Yeah, I just noticed that this entire article seems to have been copypasta-ed from the old version and not updated. There's a number of tags listed there that no longer exist, such as all of the RIVERATTACK_* tags. I'll stick an "old" template on the page for now, since it'll take some doing to go through all of the tags and verify that they still exist/do the same thing as they used to. But to answer your specific question, yes, the DEFENDER tag does still exist. It's just the magma river that doesn't. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 12:14, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, I've had a bit of a search, and I've removed those tags which I've verified as non-existent. I should stress though that my search was not exhaustive, so it's possible that this article does still contain errors. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Body parts ==

It would be nice if there was a list of available body parts, ive been trying to make a new creature and am stuck using dwarven body parts... --[[User:High tech dragon|High tech dragon]] 22:59, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
:[[Body_tokens]] --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 08:28, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::There is, of course, always the option to make your own body parts by editing the raws, though. Just make sure ''you know what you doing.'' </ayb> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:02, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

== Weapons and sizes ==

I'm curious as to what tags allow or disallow the use of bows or crossbows. It seems like it could be that the stout tag disallows the use of bows, and the narrow disallows the use of crossbows, as I believe the races that have neither tag (humans, goblins) can use both weapons. Anyone confirm/deny/antithesize before I accidentally mess up my raws trying to find out? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:20, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
*All that it takes to add or remove the use of bows and crossbows is to add or remove the weapon tag from the entity file. Dwarves can't equip bows at the military screen even if you allow them to use them though, that is hardcoded. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009

== Catgirls ==
I'm attempting to put a new creature into the game - specifically, catgirls. They have the COMMON_DOMESTIC token, but won't show up in the embark menu. As directed by the guy who made them, I put the code into the creature_domestic_humanoid.txt and the body parts into body_domestic_humanoid.txt and there aren't any errors on world generation, so I assume the coding is right. Any help for someone with no real idea of what they're doing? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 16:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:OK, I put them into creature_domestic.txt this time, and they showed up, but they suffocated when I started playing. They have lungs, a throat and a mouth, so I can't think what they're missing. They're not aquatic or anything like that either, so I've no idea why they drowned. Here's the full code if you want to instantly pick out what I'm missing. [CREATURE:CATHUMAN]
[NAME:catgirl:catgirls:catgirl]
[TILE:'f'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[FEMALE]
[PETVALUE:400]
[INTELLIGENT]
[TRAPAVOID]
[EXTRAVISION]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][BENIGN][PET]
[MISCHIEVIOUS]
[PREFSTRING:cat ears]
[BODY:2BIGEARS:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS
:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:
BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:6]
[MAXAGE:60:110]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:25:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ORDERLINESS:0:20:40]
[PERSONALITY:CAUTIOUSNESS:0:10:30]
--[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:17, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

They have no brain? They need a [Nothought] tag for that i think. You need to check the linkings in the body folder too to make sure everything's attached as it should be. If they still dont work just check through each of the tokens with the wiki and you should find the problem.
:They do have a brain and all the tokens seem to be fine. I added [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] in case the [INTELLIGENT] tag was playing up, but it doesn't seem so. I'm a little stuck now, so I might have to go without catgirls for a while.--[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 08:41, 15 November 2008 (EST)

:If you want a quick fix, just add [NOBREATHE]! That'll let you check the bodyparts in game (and in 99.9% of situations, it'll be the same as a more in-depth fix.) Putting the ears before the main body token might be the problem.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:52, 15 November 2008 (EST)

:Messing with the order of the body parts didn't do anything, so it'll have to be [NOBREATHE]. Ah well, thanks for the help. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:23, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, there's something weird going on. They're still suffocating. I generated a new wold after saving the [NOBREATHE] tag and my catgirls are still suffocating. It seems that catgirls can defy even DF's questionable physics. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:33, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::I had a similar problem when attempting to introduce a novel species: They would spawn with no body parts and instantly suffocate (apparently you run out of oxygen before having to worry about a lack of blood or brains). The errorlog told me I'd mistyped the name for the main body. And then I forgot that you had to close DF and reopen it for the changes to take effect. But I digress. Two things: Firstly, those line breaks (if they're in the source) may be confusing the game. Try turning off "word wrap" or similar so that it's all on one line before saving it. Secondly, check the errorlog and see if it's throwing any errors. Make a world, embark to a site, let them all suffocate, and then open up errorlog.txt. You say there weren't any errors in worldgen, but seeing as you can apparently have 200-year-old civilizations of bodiless beings waging war and generally not dying due to massive everything failure, I don't think it checks for sanity until they appear on the sitemap.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:53, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:Yep, that's got it. Cheers! --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 13:31, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:If I may, which "that" was the one that got it?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:The word wrap. What a weird way to break a creature. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:36, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, Notepad can be retarded like that. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:11, 18 November 2008 (EST)

==World Gen and Megabeasts==
Anyone know what controls how many megabeasts are spawned during world gen? I'm hoping its something in the creature tokens (like genpower) and thus easily moddable - just increasing DAMBLOCK doesn't seem to increase their longevity much, and I'd like to play in a world older than 50 years with a decent number of megabeasts remaining. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:03, 20 December 2008 (EST)
*I think it is hard coded. Currently the best way to have your megabeasts survive longer is move all of you megabeasts to their own text file and then copy it make sure that both files have the exact same name, no copy number 1 on the end or anything like that. In one version change their DAMBLOCK and SIZE to enormous numbers, like 100000. worldgen with this text file in the raws. Then switch the two text files. This should restore all of your megabeasts to normal power. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009

::You mean that for a medium (for example) world there can never be more than 18 megabeasts? That's really lame... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)

About megabeast modding... after adding the TRAINABLE tag to some, and after one attacked and my Dungeon Master tamed it, we stopped having sieges. It's been 3 years now and we haven't even seen so much as a single thief or ambush. We count ourselves lucky to have continued to receive liaisons and caravans however. We're making plans to drop it into a bottomless pit to see if that fixes the problem however.
--[[User:Unseenmage|Unseenmage]] 04:31, 03 February 2009 (EST)

The megabeast burst into pieces against a ledge within the bottomless pit and that spring a vile force of darkness arrived. Problem solved.
--[[User:Unseenmage|Unseenmage]] 05:00, 03 February 2009 (EST)

== Elf Cannibals ==

I can't seem to find the tag that makes elves (supposedly) eat sentient creatures. As far as I can tell from the raws, they are not, in fact, cannibals. Can anyone give insight? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 02:22, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Foul blendec

2009-05-02T21:02:56Z

Smartmo:

Is it dangerous? Should I run away from a pack of them? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 20:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: No, they are not. Do not fear the blendec. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 20:59, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Something went wrong. I seem to have died horribly. My first assessment may have been premature. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 21:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Foul blendec

2009-05-02T20:59:52Z

Smartmo:

40d Talk:Foul blendec

2009-05-02T20:58:10Z

Smartmo: Created page with 'Is it dangerous? Should I run away from a pack of them? --~~~~'

Is it dangerous? Should I run away from a pack of them? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 20:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Adventurer mode

2009-05-02T20:56:25Z

Smartmo:

How -do- you capture flies, anyway? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 19:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)

How do I jump off cliffs in adventure mode? --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]
: NO NO NO!!! Jumping of cliffs will quickly result in your death. A one z-level drop will cause injury, and oftentimes Cliffs are multiple z-levels high, and plunging 14 z-levels will kill you.--[[User:Axe27|Axe27]] 01:00, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::As of 0.28.181.40d, falling one Z-level may appear to harm you, but it really doesn't. It will stun you and leave you prone, but I've checked, it's done no damage to me. 2 layers, however, and my legs have snapped like twigs. Fortunately, as long as I'm not dead, and not in combat, I can just go to overland map, walk one square, and I'm fine again. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 20:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi forums] would probably be a better place to ask questions like these, though the movement thing would probably go well in this article. To 'catch' flies, simply be on the same tile as a swarm of them, and {{key|g}}et one as if it were an item on the ground. To jump off cliffs or other such features, hold Alt while moving, and it'll give you a choice of where you want to go in that direction. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 06:54, 16 November 2007 (EST)

The best way to get live animals is to "L"ook/search in the square, which will dig up a multitude of small bugs. Store them in your backpack and go to town with "Spinning Live Cockroach Hits The Cougar In The Head! Its Brain Is Broken!"-ness. --[[User:DuckofDoom|DuckofDoom]] 20:19, 2 December 2007 (EST)

It mentions that you start out in the Mayor's House in a human town. Isn't that technically like the Town Hall or City Tavern, not the mayor's house. --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 20:57, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Erm, pressing P doesn't equip items. Instead it tries to put them in containers.[[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 02:59, 12 February 2008 (EST)

: Fixed "P", here's some news from 38a though: i met a legendary bowman, and she told me off when i asked her to join. No more <s>meat shields</s> companions except for Drunks now. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 23:40, 18 February 2008 (EST)

:: Actually, its just the legendaries that ignore you. Lower class warriors are always happy to help. Sometimes they'll do your job for you!--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 05:50, 7 March 2008 (EST)

I think it might be a good idea to talk about making adventure mode run faster on this page. I can run a 6X6 fortress just fine, but for some reason, Adventure mode is slow as Toady's implementation of a UI. [[User:Pi|Pi]]

Might wanna add a note that it apears that drunks are fairly good at using captured weapons. Twice now I've hada drunk wield a spear with incredible skill, killing an ettin, and one time, me when i tried to take the spear back after it was lodged into a werewolf and he grabbed it.--[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:52, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Just added a note to wrestling noting that unconscious people are commonly found on beds and make terrific wrestling buddies.--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 14:42, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

==Starting Location/Gear==

It doesn't appear that humans start in the Mayor's house anymore, but in an inn of some sort. Additionally, my starting dwarf seemed to start in a valley with no dwarf settlement nearby. The dwarf was also lacking a wineskin. [[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 15:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:As long as I've been playing, a good few months now, it's always been the case that I've started in the tavern/inn. My dwarf also started in a valley outside of a dwarf settlement, but near to one. Hadn't really played a as a dwarf adventurer before, so I thought nothing of it. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:05, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
::Perhaps the article needs to have its wording changed then. There was no Mayor in the Inn, but I read on the forums there is a bug that causes him not to spawn sometimes. Additionally, on another Dwarf runthrough, the dwarf did have a wineskin, and I was in a similar valley, but the minimap "tracker" leads me to a wide "pit" that drops into the dwarf fortress but no door. I threw myself off and survived, but could not find an exit. Just many many empty rooms with occasional people.[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 09:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

== Where's the party? ==

I've gone to several different towns now and have yet to find anybody listed as Drunk. Nor has anyone accepted my request to join. Do they still exist? Has my entire world gone on the wagon? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:11, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== "such enthusiasam" ==
i playing a dwarf in the current verison and try as i might i cannot get any millartys dwarfs to join me, the simply say "Ha! Such enthusiasam from one such as yourself"
What should i do? [[User:Gnomegnome|Gnomegnome]] 19:24, 15 November 2008 (EST)

:Gain more [[experience]] first.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:35, 15 November 2008 (EST)

::Adventurers seem to have alot of respect for those who have thrown a lot of rocks, tip-toed back and forth in the middle of the woods, and played in the surf on the beach. There's also troll zombie wrestling, a very popular sport...--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:48, 15 November 2008 (EST)

== How to STOP Wrestling? ==

Okay, having modded in a species with fairly fearsome attacks (Possibly too fearsome. Note to self: Scale back damage slightly) and gone running around in adventure mode, I've noticed that trying to actually use said attacks results in a lot of "you grab the wolf by the left front leg! You release your grip on the wolf's left front leg! You grab the wolf by the right front leg! You release your grip on the wolf's right front leg!" as opposed to ripping them in half or clawing them to shreds. Not knowing much about the combat preferences and such, is there a way to affect what kind of attack is performed when fighting unarmed?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 10:02, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Pressing {{key|c}}, willll bring up combat preferences. The options are 'according to opponent', 'strike', 'charge', and 'close combat'. You want 'strike', 'close combat' is probably what it's been assuming is best 'according to opponent'. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:18, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Mmm, could've sworn that I'd tried it on that setting, but I'll go back and take another look. Thanks for confirming what I suspected; that it was something related to combat preferences.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:26, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Rip Van Winkle ==

Sleeping is taking FOREVER. Any way to wake up early? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 16:35, 19 January 2009 (EST)
:That's a negatory, over. *crshk*. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Diagonal Movement ==

Is there any way to move diagonally in adventure mode like the dwarves do in fortress mode? There's a cave that I really want to explore (mainly because it contains a Hydra, which I have never fought before). The tunnel underground is in such a way that the only path to the Hydra is diagonal.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

:Use your numpad (with caps lock on). 7,9,1 and 3 move you in the different directions.--[[User:Sickness]] 02:04, 29 April 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Leather

2009-05-02T17:22:01Z

Smartmo: /* Leather Types */ new section

Should [[skin]] redirect here? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 19:46, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Why is it that a kitten gives the same amount of leather as a lets say muskox? [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 05:18, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Because THe One made this possible. It's not the same, really. It's just like that: a kitten leather armor - is a bikini style armor ;P--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:31, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::lol, thats awsome, bikini cat armor! [[User:Corhen|Corhen]]

How is it possible to have stuff like Troglodyte Leather if they can't be butchered?--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:10, 7 February 2009 (EST)
: The same way it is possible that other civilizations can export cows' milk to you, but you can't milk cows. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:10, 15 march 2009 (EST)

== Leather Types ==

Seeing as how there's no mention of it, I'm gonna go ahead and assume all leather armor is just as effective. Kitten or hippo, it don't matter. can anyone confirm/deny? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 17:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Ambusher

2009-05-02T16:53:06Z

Smartmo: /* Hunting */

{{Skill
| color = rgb(0,128,0)
| skill = Ambusher
| speciality = [[Hunter]]
| profession = [[Ranger]]
| job name = Hunting
| tasks =
* Hunt
}}
[[Dwarves]] with the hunting [[labor]] enabled automatically use the '''ambusher''' skill while hunting outside of the fortress, which allows them to sneak up on their prey. Dwarves using the ambush skill move [[speed|slower]], but cannot be seen by enemies.

As an ambusher gets closer to his prey, there is a greater and greater chance he or she will be spotted and stop ambushing. Higher skill allows dwarves to get closer before being spotted, and also increases the speed at which a dwarf can move while sneaking.

In [[adventurer mode]], ambusher skill is gained by moving around while {{key|S}}neaking. This will greatly reduce your [[speed]] just as it does in dwarf mode, but will cause hostile [[creatures]] not to attack you. Until you un{{key|S}}neak or someone spots you, you will gain a small amount of [[experience]] in ambushing with every step. Presently, smashing a creature's skull in with your bare hands does not count as being spotted, so the best way to tell if you're still sneaking is to check your speed in the bottom right of the screen. Ambusher also helps prevent encounters from enemies while traveling on the world map.

== Hunting ==

A hunter picks a mark which he pursues. Upon killing the mark, a hunter will carry it home to the [[butcher's shop]]. A hunter may kill other [[creatures]] that are closer to them than the fleeing mark he is intent on catching. This happens frequently with [[crossbow]]s due to their range. They will ignore the accidental carcass and only bring home a carcass they have marked beforehand. This means that sometimes multiple dead critters per hunt will be lying about and start rotting around the map if you do not set the refuse orders to 'gather refuse from outside' ([[corpse]]s count as refuse). If you do this and have a good system of [[stockpile]]s, available dwarf haulers and a map free of menacing critters (the hunters should accomplish this just fine), then you should have the outside of your fort just as tidy as the inside, and will be able to salvage the corpses.

The same caution is advised to the slaughtering process. Hunters will drop carcasses directly into the butchery, which will make it cluttered very fast. Animals upon being butchered explode into [[chunk]]s, [[meat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, [[fat]] and [[skull]], and the clutter will make the [[butcher]] work many times slower. Stockpiles and haulers are required, or your animal corpses will rot even while in the butchery and you will lose the skin, the meat and the fat ([[food]]). Bones and skulls can be salvaged even from rotting corpses.

If you don't have a good stocking and hauling system, you will not get more than half of the kill, and the [[craftsdwarf]] unfortunate enough to need the bones from the rotted critters will have to go out alone several times to get them every time which places a huge strain on production speed and safety.

You can assign [[hunting dog]]s to [[hunter]]s, as they will sneak just as the hunter. [[War dog]]s die more often for hunters even if they are stronger, since the dogs outrun the sneaking hunter and thus the hunter never gets the first shot and sometimes never even has time to arrive at the combat before the dog is either dead or wounded.

Dwarves can hunt with any [[weapon]], or even unarmed, but a [[crossbow]] is the most sensible choice, due to its range. They will use whatever weapon/armor is assigned to them. (See [[Military]])

You should consider training hunters with [[hammer]]s and in wrestling in order for them to defend themselves. This is because hunters will fight to the death even if they run out of [[bolt]]s. Without bolts, he must fight with the butt of the crossbow which is counted as a weak [[hammer]]. Wrestling is his last resort if the hunter drops his crossbow in the fight. Wrestling will help him to break the jaw-grips that the enemy critter places on him, and will help the dwarf wrestle on his own and even place his own jaw grips if both of his hands are incapacitated.

== Free equipment ==

Any dwarf given ambusher skill at Novice level or better before embarking will get a free set of leather armor (leather armor, leather leggings, leather low or high boots, and leather helm or steel cap); a crossbow (made of copper, bronze, bismuth bronze, iron, or steel); and a quiver with 30-40 steel bolts. All of these items will be of ordinary [[quality]].

This equipment will only be given if ambusher is the dwarf's highest skill; a Proficient Ambusher/Proficient Cook will have [[farmer]] as a profession, and will not receive any equipment. However, ambushers with other [[ranger]] skills, even ones higher than their ambusher skill, will still receive this equipment, as will ambushers with [[military]] skills at any level. (Separately, military skills will not influence what equipment is given: speardwarves will arrive at the site carrying nothing, and speardwarf/ambushers will arrive with the crossbow given to all ambushers. [[Armor user]] and [[shield user]] have no effect either.)

Any [[immigration|immigrating]] rangers with ambusher skill will also receive this equipment.

== Crossbows ==
A hunter armed with a [[crossbow]] will increase both his [[marksdwarf]] and ambusher [[skill]]s.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Ambusher

2009-05-02T16:44:29Z

Smartmo: /* Equipment */

== Unconscious spotters? ==

The article states that you can be seen by an unconscious creature when standing next to it, yet I always get back into sneak mode as soon as I get an enemy unconscious, and it always has worked, as did passing right next to an unconscious creature. Never got a chance to gouge out eyes in the new version, but in the old DF, I could start sneaking very close to a cyclops, about three tiles, maybe two, which is more than close enough for him to normally see you and prevent you from sneaking. I'd like someone to confirm this, but I'm fairly certain the part about unconscious creatures is false. --[[User:Ryke Masters|Ryke Masters]] 20:45, 2 December 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that statement is false. I'll remove it in a day unless anyone thinks it true. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:55, 3 December 2007 (EST)

The "hunting" skill link redirects to this page, which is kind of useless. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:49, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: Well, there is no hunting skill, and hunters all use Ambushing. I figure there ought to be some sort of "activity" page that describes how to hunt, equipment, products, risks, etc - where should that be, though? Not here, although there should probably be a link from here to it. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 14:23, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== ` ==

Well, my hunters keep catching things then my butcher won't do anything with it.

if I am chasing a "foo" what is the sequence to follow to get from:
1 hunter
1 foo
1 Butcher's shop
1 butcher
1 kitchen

to "food"?
TIA
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:06, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Provided the hunter is bringing the corpses back to camp (does one need a refuse pile for this? I forget), then the butcher should automatically butcher it, turning it into meat, bones, a skin, a skull, fat, and "chunks", which are inedible. Fat can be rendered into [[tallow]] in the kitchen, which can then be cooked into a meal. (Mmm, horse tallow roast.) Meat can be eaten raw, so you don't need to cook it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:46, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::From what I have noticed they will bring the kill straight to the butchers shop but if they drop it to drink or whatnot you can {{k|p}} lace a {{k|r}}efuse pile under the corpse and the butcher will go out and get it. Or you could chain pile it to a refuse pile right next to your butcher shop if you have extra hands about. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:54, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Lack of prey ==

is there something I can do to get more work for my hunters? I have started drafting them all to the millitary becuase they already have armour and a bow when they turn up! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:30, 30 January 2008 (EST)

:Well, if you have few/no spawning animals on your map, then making them marksdwarves is by far the best option, as the only alternative really, is training them in a new profession. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:05, 30 January 2008 (EST)

== go get him ==
Nothing more fun than watching your unarmed hunter chase and wrestle a groundhog to death *laugh*. *note to self: when making a hunter always check for weapon preference* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:00, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I'm seeing the same thing. Although, in my case, all three of my hunters were set up with crossbows and quivers. Initially, they ran out of bolts. No worries except that now, although their weapon choice is set to crossbow, they won't pick one up. I've tried changing their jobs, changing their military status, and none of it makes a difference as best I can tell. Now, they don't even pick up the crossbow or quiver, let alone ammo.
:And, in my case, it's beating up Elks and Muskoxes... tough dwarves. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:09, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
:Personally, I liked seeing my hammer-equiped hunter whacking horses and other large animals so hard they go flying through the air :) [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]]

== Exhausted animal supply ==
Through my use of several hunters on round-the-clock 'killing everything in sight' duty It appears that no more animals spawn on my map. I really wish I could hunt some gorilla for a more balanced dwarf diet aside from dogmeat. --[[User:Jemulov|Jemulov]] 13:41, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== How many bolts? ==

On this page it says that immigrating hunters arrive with a stack of 30 steel bolts. However, I've got a stack of 34 lying right here, which means they bring more, though I think the stack is partly used.

It's been a while since I've had a hunter or marksdwarf arrive; can anyone check how large a stack they each bring (and is it the same for both)?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:28, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:Okay, 36 for a hunter. Might be more for a marksdwarf.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:46, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:38 for another hunter. So I'll call it 30 to 40, pending further information.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== Hunting Labor and sleeping prefs ==

I was lucky enough to land a fortress with absolutely no huntable animals, as a result I took the opportunity to give my dwarves all leather armor and enable hunting for them, this turned out rather splendidly for the next siege, but as a long term plan, seems to run into the issue that when hunting is enabled dwarves seem to have nothing against sleeping wherever they wish, causing negative thoughts... this isn't specifically tied to the Ambusher skill, it is a side effect of the hunting labor, so I'm wondering if anyone would care to bring in Hunting as its own category, or if someone simply wanted to append that information to the Ambusher article.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:40, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

== Equipment ==

I'm confused, I know if you start a fortress with an ambusher as one of your dwarves, he gets a crossbow, some bolts, and leather armor. But what happens if you assign some random dwarf to it? Will he pick up a crossbow and leather armor? I just want to know if I'm wasting my time making him equipment he might not use --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Alright I just checked, they will use whatever weapon/armor you set in the military menu. Gonna add that to the main page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Planepacked

2009-05-02T15:28:10Z

Smartmo: /* Please don't delete it */

Talk:Planepacked

2009-05-02T15:24:45Z

Smartmo: /* Good Lord */

40d Talk:Immigration

2009-05-02T14:56:29Z

Smartmo: /* Immigration Rate */

==Multiple civs==
What information do we have about the relationship between immigration rate and the number of dwarven civs? Is there info? Is there a relation? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

==Comments regarding new version==
Don't know how much of this info is still valid. For example, the line "Notably, the incredibly useful Manager requires at least twenty dwarves." is a hold-over from the previous wiki. In fact, most of the noble-related info is outdated.
I'm going to edit out anything that I ''know'' to be wrong. Get rid of the wrong stuff, and we can start getting correct stuff in instead.[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The validation abilities of the manager still only appear after you have 20 dwarfs. But you can access the screen before that happens. Don't know if this validation has any additional effect or if the managers even work before that.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, the manager will work just fine when you have less than 20 dwarfs. He will need an office if you have more than 20 dwarfs.--[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 16:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

==migration vs location on world map==
I have a nagging sense from playing a year or two in a few different areas that the number of migrants is a bit more random now. I have one decently wealthy young outpost located far from it's civilization on the map which has gotten very few immigrants in the first two years. Perhaps with groups now moving on the overall map, it is more important to be close to your civilization's area so immigrant groups arrive more quickly and are less likely to get ambushed on the way? Pure conjecture on my part and not backed by any real evidence, but an interesting idea nonetheless. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:15, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Well, my first throw-away fortress got gigantic immigration crowds every single season. Then I abandoned, rerolled the world, and started a new fortress. It produces worlds more wealth than my first fortress, but I have only gotten one immigration wave on the second Spring, bringing my numbers to 24. I then received my second immigration on the start of the third Spring, bringing me up to 48 dwarves. I was very worried up until I got that first wave in the spring... I almost thought I was going to have to scrap the fortress and start again. For reference, I receive elf, human, and dwarf traders. No sieges yet. I have no deaths so far. It would seem that the MAXIMUM immigration amount is 24 for one season. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 23:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::I've gotten 25 immigrants in one wave, but one of these was a child, which may ironically go into the 'pets' category rather than 'dwarf' category. Do children have parents when they come with immigrants? -Gotthard
::: I've had a family of four come in one wave-Husband and Wife and 2 children. The children were very sad when their mother got killed by a goblin. I also had a dwarf born from parents in my first immigration wave. Has anyone every had two dwarfs marry? Not arrive married but get married at your fort. Just wondering if it's possible. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::::With this latest version release (0.27.176.38a), dwarves can indeed marry each other at your fortress. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 04:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Just to confirm, I have to confirmed marriages at my fortress (these were both from my original seven dwarves) [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 06:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh, this has been known since, like, version 0.27.176.38a. Did you not read that comment properly, much less check the date of it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:57, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::Update: On the summer of my third year, I finally received some migrants! Woooo. I received about 12 immigrants. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 01:35, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

::Happend to me sometimes to, you have to wait for immigrants sometimes. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==clarification on editing ini file==
One point of conflict in this article. It states that once the immigration limit is reached normal immigration is ceased. It then encourages a method of editing the init file to curb immigration. It says to just reedit it when you want more dwarfs. In my findings when I use this tactic as soon as my limit is hit I get no more dwarfs, even after reediting the init file to a higher number.

The section where it says "A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration." is really obvious and there's no other information there. I think it should be removed, or at least made part of the general information. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]

--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:17, 17 February 2008 (EST)
==Talk Page from Migrant==
This page should be merged with the page on immigration. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:47, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:Agreed, and done --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

I felt this edited out info is worth keeping here as hint for further investigations.

=== Immigration Triggers ===

Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by hitting 'Z') reaches:

* 5,000
* 10,000
* 100,000
* 140,000
* 165,000 (?)
* 300,000
* 340,000

== Equipment ==

(This should probably go on the Migrant talk page, but this page seems to be busier)

Will an immigrant always arrive with the necessary equipment to perform his skills? ie, will a hunter always arrive with a crossbow, armour and bolts? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:nope, sometimes you get an immigrant who doesn't have the right equipment. (Had woodworkers with carpentry and wood cutting skills withouth an axe). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:46, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::I think it depends a bit on how multi-skilled they are: if he had been a [[woodcutter]] he would have had an axe but as he was a woodworker... well, carpenters need a workshop not an axe.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Combat Immigrants ==

I have yet to have any of my immigrants to show up as military types, even though I've at least produced crossbows in every fort I've run so far. Had one fort reach it's 6th year and have crafted every type of weapon available without a single dwarf showing up with combat skills. Anyone verify that this is still true? --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)

You were just unlucky. I have forged some hammers and axes and a hammer and a axe soldier showed up at my fort [[Doler 12]], 18:11 19 November 2007 (GMT+1)

:Did you maybe create a military and train dwarves in hammers and axes? --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:19, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:: The one and only military migrant (a Marksdwarf) I got so far came after I had someone advance to Champion level. Is this just a coincidence or have other people noticed this? --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:44, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:::No. I made crossbows and got marksdwarves immigrants and my best soldier was a novice crossbowman. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:55, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Immigration Rate ==

Has anyone noticed there seems to be a logarithmic curve associated with immigration? In the beginning, it doesn't matter what I do to keep my wealth down (including only building 7 beds and a small wooden 'shack' to put them above ground, and not mining out any squares) I seem to get a ton of immigrants. However, going from 1.1M to 1.4M resulted in only 5 immigrants or so the whole year. Either there might be a 'minimum' baseline for forts (and 7 isn't it, seems closer to 25-40 or so, doesn't matter what your wealth is you will grow to that) or it is logarithmic. I don't think it is related to deaths in my large fortress, I've had one elite marksdwarf die to a hydra, and 6-7 more (in 6 years) to goblins, moods, etc. I don't have the economy, perhaps this slows it down around 100? --Gotthard 11:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Heh, I'm about to test that: my first winter killed six of my dwarves so we'll see how many migrants I get. I'm currently outnumbered by dogs about 10:1... unfortunately I also lost my only mare so I've got two male horses, may as well kill both of them as soon as I need a quick snack! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:: Might as well add some info. While testing, I lost 4 of my initial dwarf. I digged a 3x3 up/down stair (mined some gold), build one bed, one armor rack. And that's it. Well I did kill some rhesus macaque and stole some food from a caravan. Yet 5 migrants still came anyway without a lot of wealth. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:54, 28 January 2009 (EST)
:::A bear attacked me during the first season, killing 2 dwarves, and badly wounding my leader/carpenter. After mining about 5 or 6 gem deposits, a hematite vein, a limonite vein, and a coal vein, my first immigrant wave came with 24 dwarves. Now, after a moody engraver made an artifact, I've engraved pretty much every available surface, masterpieces everywhere, and I'm afraid of how many dwarves I'll have after the next wave. The biggest problem is I don't know how many bedrooms to build ahead of time. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Military immigrants without weapons ==

I started a game with just one dwarf. The first immigration wave, in the next spring, I got a recruit as one of my immigrants. This recruit had NO military skills, and no armor or weapons. What confuses me is that I had never created any weapons. The only remotely military thing I ever made was a single leather armor. If it matters, I hadn't created hardly anything else before that point either--a bed, basic furniture, less than ten stone crafts, no cooking, and that armor. Anyone else seen this? It throws a kink into the "weapons bring military dwarves" thing. Oh, and I also have pits as a feature in this map if it matters (as yet unrevealed). --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 09:28, 12 January 2008 (EST)
: Did the recruit have any skills? Otherwise he's basically the same as a peasant. How many dwarfs were in your military at the time. That might also have been a factor. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)

== Seasons and Immigration ==

I've had immigrants arrive in spring, summer and fall but never winter. Has anyone had immigrants arrive in winter? Or does whether immigrants arrive in winter depend on your fort's climate? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:45, 29 January 2008 (EST)
: I just had a group of dwarves migrate during winter right after reading this. I am in a warm climate though. What was strange was in the following Summer I had another wave of migrants. Two in one year. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Multiple waves of immigration isn't unusual, I often get migrants in both autumn AND spring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had an immigrant wave arrive mid-summer in my first year. 6th Malachite, to be specific.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:07, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Headline text ==

Currently, my record is 32 dwarfs, 8 kids and pets. anybody else beaten that?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 07:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if you are sure of that, you should add it to the article. While most people seem to get smth like 20 to 25 ( my max being 19+pets), no one knows if ther's a limit and how high it is, so.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::i regularly get 24 exactly, but on a few cases ive gotten more, most being 28, with lots of kids -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Strange stuff ==

Once I had a leatherworker who came onto the map and as soon as he appeared, there was a message
'dwarf has been possessed'
Strange, has this happenedto any once? Was he possessed before he came to my Fortress? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That once happened to someone in the 2D version... tis quite simple. When a fey mood occurs, a random dwarf gets it. As it so happened, this dwarf had recently immigrated to your fortress. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Interesting, can't say I've come across that particular bug, although I did come across an item with no name! It was just called a "Large ." --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It isn't a bug. The fey immigrant, not the "Large ." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: I seem to get this a lot - the wealth embodied by all those new clothes on the backs of the immigrants might push the fortress wealth over a level needed to trigger a strange mood, perhaps. Then it's luck of the draw whether it strikes a settled dwarf or a new immigrant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:50, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lone Dwarf ==

"A migrant has arrived."
For some reason I only got one migrant this time! Weird! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:28, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Migrant caps ==

The cap is set in my init.txt file as 200, but in one of my fortresses I got well over 200 (something like 225). Is there anything that could cause this other than a straight-up glitch? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 23:04, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:The population cap is only checked to see if another migrant wave is allowed. It is entirely possible, often likely, that the actual number of migrants in the wave pushes the population over the value set. IIRC, pregnancies will also bypass the cap. The softness of this limit is a well known... feature... :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:However I had mine set to 50, had a wave of immigration that pushed it from <50 to 59, and have just gotten another load of migrants. Is there some hard coded minimum population? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::It won't stop at exactly 50 -- you just stop getting immigrant waves after you exceed your cap.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:36, 6 December 2008 (EST)

I've got a cap of 0 and I still get bleeding migrant waves. I still get them with a cap of 1, too. Is there any way to turn them off? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:46, 3 February 2009 (EST)

== Migrant skills ==

Does the amount of workshops you have for a skill affect how many immigrants have that skill? I've had no dyer's shop for a really long time, and I notice I have only one dyer, whereas I have plenty of dwarves with every other skill. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 21:19, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
: I don't think so, because I always get hordes of dyers, cheese makers, and woodburners, even when I don't have any of the appropriate workshops. I really miss the days of getting miners, siege operators, growers, and masons.--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 16:59, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Your fortress attracted no migrants this season." ==

I'm playing a Haunted fortress on a volcano for the first time, and I got this message in my first summer. It seemed odd because I almost never get migrants during the first summer, but this is the first time that fact was announced. Is this a tweak in the new version (181.40c), which I just downloaded today, or is it because I'm in a haunted map? I got the message again in the fall. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 17:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:lots of people dying discourages immigration, as well as certain import/export/mining and immigration map factors, as far as i can tell.--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 21:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Id say its a new feature of the game, since it didn't occur before that version.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:08, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed an extension of this- I got a message just now, all in red, saying "Migrants refused to journey to such a dangerous fortress this season." Ive been raided near constantly by goblins over the last year of this game, so maybe that influences immigrants now? .--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 13:47, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd imagine it's due to the number of recent deaths, specifically. [[Immigration#How_can_I_curb_immigration.3F|That's covered in the article]]. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:11, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:^_^ I got a new message about immigration recently. "Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb". Seriously, I get very few deaths normally... this last season was bad because I've been building roads to try to entice the king, so I have more dwarves ranging far from the fortress. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 22:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::"No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season." Can you tell I just breached the [[Glowing pits|Fun stuff]]? 150 Dwarfs dead in less then a season.[[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I don't think it takes much... losses of about 4-5 dwarfs over the course of a year resulted in my getting both of the above messages about cursed death traps and probable tombs. Maybe it was the horrific way in which they happened... the Duchess's consort was ripped limb from limb right in front of the forest by an ambushing goblin party and I lost a few other people to goblin raids where they had every single body part broken and mangled before they died (sometimes a high toughness is a bad idea... as Jame said in ''Godstalk'', it's a good idea to always have the option of dying). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I've got many time this message : "Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season.".
I don't really know where does this come from... facts that can explain that are :

* I've been raided many times (something like 3-4 ambushes a year, and it's my 4th year) by goblin ambushers, and have been besieged by humans. But the last ambushers hadn't killed many dwarves (1 dwarf and 2 kittens last time).
* I settled on cold (north) and freezing (south, my fortress being approximatively in the north) biomes. The river in the south part of the map is always frozen, and the north murky pools freezes something like 6 months a year.
* Merchants (human, that's what caused the siege, but also -maybe- dwarves) has been killed during ambushes. I don't remember how many, but it may have scared the mountainhomes.

Also, immigration seems to be much slower than in my precedents forts (one wave per year or so, when it's not cancelled by the above message), and I noticed that I haven't received caravans since a year or so (maybe related with the above statement about merchants deaths). -[[User:Timst|Timst]] 12:58, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I've killed off nearly every single dwarf that's immigrated to my fortress. I've got a nasty infestation of Carp (40+, with the assorted Sturgeon, Sea Lamprey, and Longnose Gar) in my river, and I've been sending the immigrants I didn't like to their deaths to whittle away at their numbers. The only immigration messages I've gotten are "Some immigrants have arrived, despite the danger," and "No immigrants have arrived this season." Odd that no one seems to be concerned about the high percentage of deaths in my immigrants any more than to say, "Well, it seems kind of dangerous there, but let's go anyway!" Then they end up being ripped limb from limb by vicious schools of Carp. Why is my fortress not yet labelled a death trap? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 14:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

==No immigration?==
I just played a game with no immigration. There were no dwarven civilizations nearby. How did that even happen? --[[User:Fringd|Fringd]] 22:10, 8 November 2008 (EST) (Moved from article page --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:23, 9 November 2008 (EST))
: You didn't start the game on an island, did you? It's not entirely impossible to find a location where there are no other civilizations near you, but the world gen certainly does a good job at making this difficult. Can you post an export or seed of your map? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:01, 15 March 2009 (EST)

User talk:Smartmo

2009-05-02T02:56:01Z

Smartmo: