Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-01-18T19:22:27Z

Siliziumleben: forgot to sign

== Version of MediaWiki? ==
Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses?
Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)
:I think I found out. This page: [[Special:Version]] says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Change guide? ==

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Basic Format ==
I think the [[Farming]] page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. [[Gear Assembly]]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --[[User:Dogcow|Dogcow]] 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Importing old entries ==

What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --[[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:You could use [[Template:Verify]] to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's ''exactly'' what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Demystify messages? ==

Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Humor? ==
Any thoughts about possibly linking [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
<br>""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

== Combat Logs? ==
What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== German Translation ==

I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages LanguageTemplates]? Is there a need for other additional languages? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 14:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)
::My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)
::There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:::My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-01-17T15:39:06Z

Siliziumleben: no to wiki translations

40d Talk:Personality facet

2008-01-03T22:15:50Z

Siliziumleben: Effects of personality traits on gameplay

I tried to add redirects TO this page FROM pages such as "Personality" or "Attitudes" and other likely search strings but I couldn't get it to work. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 00:46, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:Taking example on other redirects, you'd need to created the page you wish to redirect from and then add ''<nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Name of article]]</nowiki>''. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:59, 12 November 2007 (EST)

What trait do you suppose "takes time when making decisions", and "Often does the first thing that comes to mind" fall under? --[[User:GauHelldragon|GauHelldragon]] 16:20, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:CAUTIOUSNESS. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 16:56, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Where did you get all this data?! It is delicious D: --[[User:GauHelldragon|GauHelldragon]] 17:22, 12 November 2007 (EST)

:[[Memory_hacking/v0.27.169.33a]] -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 17:52, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Effects of personality traits on gameplay ==

So, do these affect the game at all and if so, how? The article completely fails to mention this.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 17:15, 3 January 2008 (EST)

40d:World generation

2008-01-03T20:02:16Z

Siliziumleben:

[[Category:World]]

To begin playing Dwarf Fortress, you must first create a world to play in. When you enter the world creation screen, you are presented with a screen full of options:

== World creation options ==

[[Image:World_creation_screen1.png | none | frame | 500px | Opening world generation screen.]]

Once you choose "Create World" you will be brought to the parameters screen. Pushing {{k|Enter}} will start creating a world using the default (or selected) parameters. At the upper left hand corner, you will notice several settings. Here is a quick overview:

* '''[[#Title|Title]]''' - Where the title of your parameter type will be displayed
* '''[[#Seed|Seed]]''' - A random or predetermined number to be used in the process of world creation.
* '''[[#Name|Name]]''' - The name of your world, either random or predetermined.
* '''[[#Parameter selection|Parameter selection]]''' - If you have saved different world generation parameters, they will be listed here.
* '''[[#Options|Options]]''' - This is where you can choose to alter the various parameters for world generation.

=== Title ===

This is just a name for your world generation template. Once you have multiple templates, you can [[#Parameter selection|select]] the template you wish to use using the arrow keys or the numeric keypad.

* To edit the name of your parameter template, press the {{k|t}} key.

=== Seed ===

Generating [http://www.random.org/ a true random number] is an impossible task for a computer. Typically, a pseudo-random number generator uses a specially selected mathematical sequence to create what appears to be a random number. By feeding the same seed as another player directly into the generator, a player starts world generation at the same point in the sequence, which theoretically should result in an identical world for both players. ''(Click the following link for more information on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed random seeds.])''

* To use a random seed, press the {{K|S}} key. To use a specific seed, press the {{k|s}} key.

=== Name ===

This is where the name for your world will be displayed. You can enter a name or choose to have one randomly generated. Note that the choice to use a random name will also affect the world that is generated, so if a known seed fails to generate the correct world, try toggling this option.{{Verify}}

* To change the name of your world press the {{k|n}} key, and type in a name.
* To have the game select a name for your world press the {{K|N}} key.

=== Parameter selection ===

On the right hand side of the screen will be a list for all of your saved parameter templates. By default, there is only one parameter set labeled '''<tt>STANDARD</tt>'''. You can select which parameter set you would like to use for world creation using the arrow keys ( {{K|↑}} and {{K|↓}} ) or the numeric keypad ( {{k|8}} {{k|4}} {{k|9}} {{k|3}} ).

* To save your current settings as a parameter set, press {{K|F6}}.
* To reset the parameters to the default settings, press {{K|F1}}.
* To create a new set of parameters, press {{k|a}}. To delete the current set of parameters, press {{k|d}}.

=== Options ===

{| border = 1
|- bgcolor=lightgrey
! Key !! Function !! Description
|-
| <center>{{k|a}}</center> || New parameter set || Create a new parameter set
|-
| <center>{{k|d}}</center> || Delete parameter set || Delete the currently selected parameter set
|-
| {{K|↑}} {{K|↓}} {{k|8}} {{k|2}} {{k|9}} {{k|3}}) || Navigate the parameters || {{k|8}} and {{k|2}} → move up and down
{{k|9}} and {{k|3}} → page up and down
|-
| <center>{{k|t}}</center> || Enter title || Edits the name of your parameter set
|-
| <center>{{K|N}}</center> || Use random name || Sets your world to generate a random name upon creation
|-
| <center>{{k|n}}</center> || Enter custom name || Prompts the user to input a name for their world
|-
| <center>{{K|S}}</center> || Use random seed || Uses a random seed to generate a world.
|-
| <center>{{k|s}}</center> || Enter custom seed || Prompts the user to input a custom seed for world creation
|-
| <center>{{K|F1}}</center> || Reset world parameters || Resets the world parameters to their default values
|-
| <center>{{K|F6}}</center> || Save world parameters || Saves the world parameters under the current [[#Title | title]]
|}

== World generation ==

When you are ready to create your world, push {{k|Enter}}. The generator then begins to generate a world based on fractal algorithms. The process of creating a world can be very time-consuming, as any invalid maps are thrown out upon detection. Do not be surprised if it generates over a hundred separate worlds before creating one that is acceptable.

[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

[[Image:World_creation_screen3.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

When the world is created, you will be given the option to export the map to a graphic file by pressing {{k|p}}. This will create a '''large''' BMP format [[CP437|ASCII]] graphic of the created world. You can run the compress_bitmaps.bat batch file that comes included with the game (as of 33g) in the main dwarf fortress folder to convert the bitmap files to about 90% smaller .png files.

[[Image:World_creation_screen4.png | none | frame | 400px | Example exported map image.]]

When you are finished, press {{k|Enter}} to return to the title screen.

=== Batch processing ===

You can use this example to use the [[command line]] to create many worlds at once, without all the hassle. Copy the following code and save it as a batch (.BAT) file. This file will create 7 regions using random names and random seeds. It will also automatically output the parameters and an ASCII and detailed map for each of your worlds.

'''Note:''' ''Make sure you don't already have region1-7 in your save directory.''

<pre>
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 1 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 2 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 3 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 4 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 5 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 6 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 7 RANDOM RANDOM
</pre>

You may steal this or edit this if you like. ~schm0
{{World}}

User talk:Sphr/gfx set

2008-01-03T03:08:51Z

Siliziumleben: expressing gratitude

=Problems=

=Suggestions=

=Comments=

I love how the tiles are coming along.<br>
I really hope you decide to eventually merge all these tilesets (and the many more to come it looks like) into your own format with your own .txt to help you expand as you go on.--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:05, 27 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks. merging/consolidating is in the plans, but it will happen only when things are more or less complete enough. Right now, it is hard as I do one or two tiles at a time and only when I see them. After I consolidate more tiles, I think I will first release a DQ compatible version, so that existing users of DQ can easily try things out by just replacing the BMP files without messing with the text data. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 05:09, 29 December 2007 (EST)
::It really seems like you're going through a lot of hoops to keep everything compatible with DQ. I say screw that, stop limiting yourself :) Your sets are great. Thanks for making them.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 22:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

File talk:Sphr sample giant cave spider.png

2008-01-03T02:47:49Z

Siliziumleben: zergling?

This looks more like a [http://images.google.com/images?q=zergling Zergling] than a spider to me.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 21:47, 2 January 2008 (EST)

40d:Armor user

2008-01-03T02:42:00Z

Siliziumleben:

'''Armor User''' is the skill related to the wearing of armor in combat. Dwarves with this skill will be slowed by heavy armor less than usual, in proportion to the skill level. Armor user skill is gained when a dwarf wearing armor is successfully hit in combat, either sparring or in the field, wrestling or with a weapon.
[[Category:Combat Skills]]

40d:World generation

2008-01-03T02:39:26Z

Siliziumleben:

[[Category:World]]

To begin playing Dwarf Fortress, you must first create a world to play in. When you enter the world creation screen, you are presented with a screen full of options:

== World creation options ==

[[Image:World_creation_screen1.png | none | frame | 500px | Opening world generation screen.]]

Once you choose "Create World" you will be brought to the parameters screen. Pushing {{k|Enter}} will start creating a world using the default (or selected) parameters. At the upper left hand corner, you will notice several settings. Here is a quick overview:

* '''[[#Title|Title]]''' - Where the title of your parameter type will be displayed
* '''[[#Seed|Seed]]''' - A random or predetermined number to be used in the process of world creation.
* '''[[#Name|Name]]''' - The name of your world, either random or predetermined.
* '''[[#Parameter selection|Parameter selection]]''' - If you have saved different world generation parameters, they will be listed here.
* '''[[#Options|Options]]''' - This is where you can choose to alter the various parameters for world generation.

=== Title ===

This is just a name for your world generation template. Once you have multiple templates, you can [[#Parameter selection|select]] the template you wish to use using the arrow keys or the numeric keypad.

* To edit the name of your parameter template, press the {{k|t}} key.

=== Seed ===

Generating [http://www.random.org/ a true random number] is an impossible task for a computer. Typically, a pseudo-random number generator uses a specially selected mathematical sequence to create what appears to be a random number. By feeding the same seed as another player directly into the generator, a player starts world generation at the same point in the sequence, which theoretically should result in an identical world for both players. ''(Click the following link for more information on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed random seeds.])''

* To use a random seed, press the {{K|S}} key. To use a specific seed, press the {{k|s}} key.

=== Name ===

This is where the name for your world will be displayed. You can enter a name or choose to have one randomly generated. Note that the choice to use a random name will also affect the world that is generated, so if a known seed fails to generate the correct world, try toggling this option.{{Verify}}

* To change the name of your world press the {{k|n}} key, and type in a name.
* To have the game select a name for your world press the {{K|N}} key.

=== Parameter selection ===

On the right hand side of the screen will be a list for all of your saved parameter templates. By default, there is only one parameter set labeled '''<tt>STANDARD</tt>'''. You can select which parameter set you would like to use for world creation using the arrow keys ( {{K|↑}} and {{K|↓}} ) or the numeric keypad ( {{k|8}} {{k|4}} {{k|9}} {{k|3}} ).

* To save your current settings as a parameter set, press {{K|F6}}.
* To reset the parameters to the default settings, press {{K|F1}}.
* To create a new set of parameters, press {{k|a}}. To delete the current set of parameters, press {{k|d}}.

=== Options ===

{| border = 1
|- bgcolor=lightgrey
! Key !! Function !! Description
|-
| <center>{{k|a}}</center> || New parameter set || Create a new parameter set
|-
| <center>{{k|d}}</center> || Delete parameter set || Delete the currently selected parameter set
|-
| {{K|↑}} {{K|↓}} {{k|8}} {{k|2}} {{k|9}} {{k|3}}) || Navigate the parameters || {{k|8}} and {{k|2}} → move up and down
{{k|9}} and {{k|3}} → page up and down
|-
| <center>{{k|t}}</center> || Enter title || Edits the name of your parameter set
|-
| <center>{{K|N}}</center> || Use random name || Sets your world to generate a random name upon creation
|-
| <center>{{k|n}}</center> || Enter custom name || Prompts the user to input a name for their world
|-
| <center>{{K|S}}</center> || Use random seed || Uses a random seed to generate a world.
|-
| <center>{{k|s}}</center> || Enter custom seed || Prompts the user to input a custom seed for world creation
|-
| <center>{{K|F1}}</center> || Reset world parameters || Resets the world parameters to their default values
|-
| <center>{{K|F6}}</center> || Save world parameters || Saves the world parameters under the current [[#Title | title]]
|}

== World generation ==

When you are ready to create your world, push {{k|Enter}}. The generator then begins to generate a world based on fractal algorithms. The process of creating a world can be very time-consuming, as any invalid maps are thrown out upon detection. Do not be surprised if it generates over a hundred separate worlds before creating one that is acceptable.

[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

[[Image:World_creation_screen3.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

When the world is created, you will be given the option to export the map to a graphic file by pressing {{k|p}}. This will create a '''large''' BMP format [[CP437|ASCII]] graphic of the created world. You can run the compress_bitmaps.bat batch file that comes included with the game (as of 33g) in the main dwarf fortress folder to convert the bitmap files to about 90% smaller .png files.

[[Image:World_creation_screen4.png | none | frame | 400px | Example exported map image. If you can read this, adblock is probably blocking it.]]

When you are finished, press {{k|Enter}} to return to the title screen.

=== Batch processing ===

You can use this example to use the [[command line]] to create many worlds at once, without all the hassle. Copy the following code and save it as a batch (.BAT) file. This file will create 7 regions using random names and random seeds. It will also automatically output the parameters and an ASCII and detailed map for each of your worlds.

'''Note:''' ''Make sure you don't already have region1-7 in your save directory.''

<pre>
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 1 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 2 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 3 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 4 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 5 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 6 RANDOM RANDOM
start /wait /high dwarfort.exe -gen 7 RANDOM RANDOM
</pre>

You may steal this or edit this if you like. ~schm0
{{World}}

40d:World generation

2008-01-03T02:38:43Z

Siliziumleben:

40d Talk:World generation

2008-01-03T02:32:16Z

Siliziumleben: my experience with the batch file

If you guys can think of anything to add to this, let me know. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh yeah, and I can't get the last graphic to show, even though it exists. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 20:17, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

It took me *way* too long to figure out, but I know why the last picture isnt showing. It has "ad" in the URL, and you are using AdBlock.
:Thank you, anonymous. :)

From my own little experiments, it looks like the /wait commands aren't needed. There may be a difference in OS here, but under Windows XP Home SP2, I can create a .bat file with

dwarfort.exe -gen 1

dwarfort.exe -gen 2

right after the other. When one creation ends, the window closes and the next begins. The two [RANDOM]s aren't required, either. If the .bat is in the same folder as your executable, you don't have to go through the whole "C:\df\whatever" tree, either. [[User:Mephisto|Mephisto]] 16:08, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, like I said, it's for you to use or modify if necessary. I know that it will be compatible on all copies of XP and beyond... I don't care to bother and check what version of XP I have, but the batch program will not function correctly unless I use the /wait commands. Obviously you wouldn't need to include the directory of the files, unless you ran it from the desktop. Some good observations, nonetheless. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:15, 5 December 2007 (EST)

::I just tried this without the "start /wait" part, and it didn't work for me (Win XP SP1) - it generates only one map, then stops. Leave the code as it is.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 21:32, 2 January 2008 (EST)

i dont get seeds.. sure theyre not random... but what do they do? a list of different seeds and what they create? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:16, 5 December 2007 (EST)

seeds define the world that is generated; unless you want a world that somebody else has generated, then using the 'random seed' option will give you a more-or-less random map, (don't be confused by all the pseudorandom stuff, it's random enough -_-) well, I doubt anybody has a list of pregenerated worlds and their seeds, but I think it'd be better to create your own. There'll be areas with low difficulty and areas with high difficulty, so there's no problem there.
[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 06:18, 12 December 2007 (EST)