Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d:Exploit

2009-12-22T06:05:13Z

Shardok: Alphabetized.

An '''exploit''' is a quirk of a game that allows players to gain what other players may consider an unfair advantage, usually by making use of a feature that is not working properly or which defies logic. 'Exploiting the game' is distinct from '[[cheating]]' because exploits occur within the game as written and do not need any external [[utilities]] or [[modding]]. Whether a player chooses to make use of an exploit or not depends on their personal taste; given that [[Dwarf Fortress]] is a single-player game, the user alone can decide what liberties to take and what options to shun. Among DF players there is much discussion what actually should be considered an exploit, going from making sweetpod syrup instead of sugar, growing crops in winter, or even underground, as the one extreme, to justifying 'water wheel batteries' as the other. This page takes a rather relaxed approach in that you considering it an exploit is basically enough to add it, if you don't get too much opposition.

Some exploits are listed below.

== Atom Smasher ==

A [[drawbridge]], when rapidly triggered on and off, can be used to obliterate any creature or item beneath it. Only large creatures (with a SIZE greater than 10) are capable of withstanding a drawbridge crush.

==Bling Bolts==

Adding a [[decoration]] to a stack of [[bolt]]s causes a huge [[value]] increase. The value of the decoration is multiplied by the number of bolts in the stack. This is considered a [[bug]].

==Bookkeeper Exercise Program==
Changing your [[bookkeeper]]'s settings to maximum accuracy causes him to work furiously in his office, training quickly up to [[legendary]]. Even if this is a bug it is not really an exploit, since a) you actually want highest precision anyway b) he attains highest precision rather fast (depending, for example, on how many stones you have mined) and thus one can not train an unlimited number of, if even several, dwarves that way.

== Castle of Ice in a Lake of Fire ==

[[Construction]]s are indestructible, regardless of material, and walls of wood and ice easily stand up to [[magma]]. Entire fortresses can be built of ice in temperate climates equally impervious to catapults, the summer sun, or a thousand tons of boiling lava.

On a similar note, all buildings and furniture are equally strong - indestructible to most creatures, tissue paper to others. Witness a single troll bashing through a multilayered set of [[adamantine]] and [[steel]] doors, while an army of Elite Hammergoblins are stymied by a single [[glass]] [[portal]].

== Cooking alcohol ==

[[Alcohol]] can be cooked without requiring any other solid ingredients, producing food that is eaten and not imbibed. Doing so is a highly efficient means of producing food, as each plant produces five units of alcohol.

Though some consider it an exploit, many people make use of this feature. It will eventually be plugged with [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_req_101-150.html Req129]:
<blockquote>Req129, IMPROVE COOKING, (Future): More food. Food should require a substrate, rather than just being seeds etc. Seeds, syrups, drinks and other such objects can contribute to the likes/dislike checks as they do now, but they shouldn't add to the number created. A good roll could lead to the recipe being given a name and saved to the entity definition, where it can then be encountered in other cities in subsequent games.</blockquote>

== Dwarven Kick In The Pants ==
When a dwarf is "On [[Break]]", it is possible to draft this civilian into the military and then immediately undraft in order to cancel the break. This does give an unhappy [[thought]] (but only if the dwarf has no military and/or civilian skills), so it is not a significant exploit and some may consider it a perfectly acceptable gameplay method. Of course, if you allow every dwarf to spar a little when you draft them so that they are at least Novice Wrestlers, you'll get the double advantage of being able to cancel dwarfs' breaks at will and then send them back to work with no unhappy thoughts, as well as having dwarves who fare a little better against unexpected attacks.

== Extremely Intricate Artifacts ==

When a moody dwarf sets out to fetch some material he's craving, forbid all the other items he has gathered so far. The dwarf will set out to find a replacement for the forbidden item(s). When he returns, forbid the new one, and so on. After a while you should have a large stockpile of stuff on the moody dwarfs workshop. After you unforbid an item, the dwarf will retask it if the number of items of that type that were gathered before that one is not enough for the artifact. With careful forbidding and unforbidding, you can create ridiculously large artifacts.

== Extremely Intricate Artifacts II ==
Put all workshops outside, then set set your [[standing orders]] to "Soldiers Can Go Outdoors" or "Dwarves Stay Indoors" once you get a strange mood. Your dwarf will start collecting his first requested material over and over, never proceeding to subsequent objects. Set orders back to "Dwarves Can Go Outdoors" to make him finish gathering the rest of his materials and produce an artifact using '''all''' of the materials gathered. It is suspected that this method is what resulted in the creation of [[Planepacked]].

== Frère Jacques ==
Need a [[sleep]]ing dwarf to do some work? Kick him out of bed by deconstructing it. This does not cause an unhappy thought.

==Infinite Quivers==
By setting archery ranges where nobody can use them, and ammo stockpiles without any space for more ammo, you can force your marksdwarves to fill their quivers with an arbitrarily large number of arrows. They will pick up bolts to go practice, decide they can't because there's no room, decide not to put the bolts back because there's no room in the stockpile, and keep the bolts in their quiver, along with the other 200 or so they have. The bolts still weigh as much as they should, so dwarves will still be slowed by their humongous quivers.

==Manager Exercise Program==

As a [[Manager]], skill is gained as tasks are approved, not completed. Simply by queueing lots of jobs ({{key|j}} {{key|m}} {{key|q}}), the manager will quickly level to [[legendary]]. The tasks can then be removed once approved.

==Merchant Swindles==

There are a variety of ways to cheat [[merchant]]s out of their cargo without seizing it. Tearing down the [[trade depot]] while the merchants are there is the easiest way.

Also, marking items for [[dump]]ing, using view creature mode ({{key|v}}), the stocks menu ({{key|z}}), items in room mode ({{key|t}}), or mass dump mode ({{key|d}})-({{key|b}})-({{key|d}}) then marking the entire depot, lets you relieve merchants of their goods. Just reclaim the items from your garbage dump [[zone]] later. You can even take clothing and equipment off merchant and guards this way.

The merchants will still leave disappointed if they have less value in goods when they leave the map than when they entered {{verify}}.

== Miasma can't move diagonally ==
[[Miasma]] can only move horizontally and vertically. This means that if your refuse stockpile is only accessible on a diagonal, there is no way for the miasma to escape. This is more effective than the use of doors or even pairs of doors in an "airlock" setup, as doors can be stuck open if a creature or material is occupying their square. The same method can be used to create enclosures to prevent the spread of miasma from kitchens, tanneries, and butcher shops.

==Nudist Fortress==

Dwarves get a bad [[thought]] from having [[clothing]] [[wear]] out{{verify}}, but nothing happens if they can't find replacement clothes. As long as you don't make new clothes, they will happily go naked. This also avoids the problem of messy dwarves leaving clothing strewn around the fortress.

== Optimized-Value Artifacts/"Custom" materials ==
When a dwarf enters a strange mood, examine the item types he wants to use, then use the Stocks menu to forbid all except those you want him to fetch. With no other choices available, he will use your valuable materials instead of the common junk that may be closer. By doing this, you can create artifacts with "optimized" wealth or make sure your armorsmith's artifact is actually made of [[steel]] rather than [[zinc]]. Be warned, though, that moody metalsmiths may insist on a specific type of metal if they have a preference for it, brooding in their workshop instead of fetching your desired materials. Also note that forbidding a type of stones also forbids the workshops made from that stone, preventing all your dwarves (except the moody one) from using them. The non-exploit variant of this is to build custom stockpiles near (or right under) your relevant workshops that only take highest value items, a typical choice being native platinum and steel bars.

== Parents are back, party over! ==
A party can be stopped right away by {{K|f}}reeing (removing) the room the party is taking place in. The room can be recreated the same instance. Similarly, in times of high activity (e.g. mass dumping, trading; hauling) removing all rooms in which parties can take place will prevent them from being held. Since parties also have benefits this is not necessarily an exploit.

== Quantum stockpiles ==
By designating a garbage pit [[zone]] instead of a [[stockpile]], you may store an infinite number of objects in a single tile by dumping them, then reclaiming them when you want to use them.

A similar effect may be achieved by building a wall two tiles in front of a catapult and digging a channel between the wall and catapult. By firing the catapult at the wall, the stone falls into the trench. The stone will pile up in the channel, putting it out of sight and out of mind. Not only does this train [[siege operator]]s, but it clears the stone that your legendary [[miner]]s leave.

Another way to quantum stockpile is to not have appropriate stockpiles to move items back you moved to the trading depot. The depot can hold an arbitrary number of items, and those items will not be removed if there is nowhere else to place them. This is also useful for anything you want to trade anyway.

==Recycling Archery Range==

In an [[archery range]], [[bolt]]s that hit the target are are always destroyed, but bolts that miss can be saved. Dig a [[channel]] between the [[archery target]] and the back wall of the range, and [[stairs]] to get into it. Amazingly, the bolts will no longer shatter on impact with the wall, but fall intact into the channel. Reclaim the bolts, and your dwarves will re-use them for target practice. This exploit has the unfortunate side effect of splitting up [[stack]]s of bolts, so your dwarves will make a separate trip for each individual bolt.

This trick will work for a [[ballista]] as well. Be careful for friendly fire.

==River Freeze==
By setting temperature to NO in the init.txt file, a frozen river will remain frozen even during summer, allowing you to do anything you need to do before unfreezing it. This is especially useful for retrieving items or digging tunnels straight up to water sources without them flooding.

== Self-powered pumps ==

It is possible to produce a perpetual motion water pump where the act of pumping actually powers itself! See [[screw pump]] and [[water wheel]] for details.

== Trap fields ==
Laying a field of [[trap]]s with a significant-enough depth can protect your fortress from all invaders with no need to maintain a [[military]]. Traps are somehow intelligent enough to distinguish between [[pet]]s and allies while being dangerous to enemies and wild animals.

40d:Cat

2009-12-14T08:28:10Z

Shardok: Undo revision 59702 by 24.93.117.205 (Talk) "Last voyage" Reference towards death. "First voyage" Reference to birth I guess?

{{CreatureInfo|name=Cat|symbol=c|color=rgb(128, 128, 128)|bones=3|fat=1|skin=Yes|skulls=1|chunks=3|meat=3|biome= Common domestic}}
'''Cats''' will kill [[vermin]] in and around your fortress. They are fairly weak [[animal]]s in combat (but combat can be quite random, and they have been known to surprise players on the rare occasion). They also seem to want to wander every room, hall and mineshaft at least once, perhaps due to some modeling of curiosity.

Cats cannot be assigned as [[pet]]s; instead, cats choose [[dwarves]] as owners. Cats can choose randomly from any dwarves on the map, but have a ''much'' higher probability of choosing a [[dwarf]] who has the [[preference]] "''admires cats for their aloofness''". If a cat is caged, it will not adopt, however it may the moment it is taken from the cage (perhaps to be immediately butchered), regardless of who takes it.

Cats are useful around the fort to prevent the unhappy thoughts produced by vermin, and also for producing large numbers of kittens. If you can resist their cuteness and charm, and you get to them before they adopt a dwarf, [[:Image:Cat_Meat_Roast.JPG|kittens can be butchered]] to provide a small never-ending trickle of [[skin]] (to become [[leather]]), [[bone]]s (for a variety of end-products) and [[meat]] for your fort. As a breeding pair of cats only costs 22 embark points, this is well worth considering - just cage and/or butcher the kittens as they are born, lest the kittens grow to adopt a dwarf before their last voyage. (See [[Meat industry#Breeding|Breeding]])

Cats are also infamous for the [[catsplosion]]: if you are not careful, cats will be everywhere, causing your [[FPS]] to plummet, and [[Trap#Upright_Spear.2FSpike|killing]] [[pet]]s causes a strong unhappy [[thought]] to the owner.

Cats, by nature, will attempt to pack vermin to their owners - often, the owner will then dismiss the cat, at which point the cat will attempt to bring the vermin remains to an appropriate refuse [[stockpile]]. However, because they lack body parts that can grasp, they will cancel the task with a "too injured" message, leaving the vermin on the floor for another dwarf to clean up. For more info and a fix, see [[Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured]].

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:CAT]
[NAME:cat:cats:cat]
[TILE:'c'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[VERMINHUNTER]
[PETVALUE:20]
[CARNIVORE][NATURAL][PET]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][BENIGN]
[PREFSTRING:aloofness]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:3]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:kitten:kittens]
[FAT:1]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[MUNDANE]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T10:47:09Z

Shardok:

<gallery>
Image:154fyva.jpg‎|HAI2U
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File:154fyva.jpg

2009-12-11T10:46:33Z

Shardok:

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-12-11T05:17:08Z

Shardok: /* Soldiers */

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it mentions that it has spoilers its perfect--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== misc ==

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

==Glassmaker and Glass Furnace bug==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[User:Digger|Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::In my experience (all with 40d), all of my metalsmiths claim my magma forges (I always deconstruct the non-magma ones), but all of my glassmakers seem to insist on non-magma glass furnaces, forcing me to build one for them and then remember to deconstruct it after the mood completes (so my manager doesn't start allocating fuel-consuming glassmaking tasks to it). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
::::I can verify that glassmakers refuse to use magma glass furnaces, but will claim non-magma ones. I had 2 glassmakers, the first one died because he did not find a non-magma glass furnace, the second one refused as well to use the magma one, so i built him a non-magma-furnace which he instantly claimed. --[[User:Arni|Arni]]

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Noticed that my stonecrafter liked Yellow Diamonds, was requesting cut gems. I had a large pile of cut gems around, but no yellow diamonds. I cut some more of what I had to give him a chance, but still no result. Then, a long time later and about when he should have gone insane, he gave out up on his demands and just grabbed some Prases. It seems that when they reach their limit, they will give take whatever is available in that category. There's now no such thing as an iron-clad demand, ever, for a specific material as long as it fits the category (in my experience). The exception being silk/plant cloth, where sub-categories are used (a dwarf may prefer GCS silk, but if you can't get it he will eventually use regular if you have enough). If someone can confirm this, a note should be added to the page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 06:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)
:: And when I started to produce the demanded materials (silk cloth en masse) not until the mood? Will my moody go insane if he only gets them in homeopathic dosages? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]]
:::Nah, so long as he gets them before he cracks, it's all good - and 2 months sounds about right. Also note that so long as he is in the process of gathering, that clock is on hold - that's been demonstrated elsewhere. However, the "mood clock" doesn't reset until the current mood's done, so the sooner that's started and completed, the sooner you'll get another mood. There are only a half-score uncommon materials that a moody dwarf wants, so it's not hard to keep a few of each around for emergencies. Order them from the 1st Fall liaison, and you'll have them by 2nd Fall (if not before by luck).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::If you view '''any''' dwarf who is currently in a Strange Mood, that dwarf will seemingly always be "quite content" - Dwarf Companion seems to indicate that entering a mood resets a dwarf's happiness value to exactly 100. This seems to be the case for fey moods, possessions, and secretive moods - I've not yet had the misfortune of getting a fell mood or macabre mood (since my dwarves are always ecstatic), so it's possible those are different. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::It does not depend on the exact experience points, just on the level/title. In my current game, I had an immigrant craftsdwarf get a mood. He was novice in bone carving, glass making, and leatherworking. I'd been training him up in glass making, and he was just a few xp away from hitting no label when he got his mood. (Exact xp levels were confirmed with Dwarf Therapist.) He claimed a crafts workshop, and became a legendary bone carver. (I'm just trying to update the main article with this information, but the damned thing won't let me log in. ¬_¬) --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 07:58, 09 October 2009 (UTC)

== Materials used ==

Before I struck adamantine, all metalworking moods (weapons, armor, furniture, crafts) would pick a randomly available metal and use it. However, ever since I struck adamantine, they '''always''' go straight for the wafers, even when it isn't in their preferences. Stone-related moods, however, don't seem to prefer raw adamantine over other nearby rocks. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Material Preferences ==

Stories from the old 2D version have included many accounts of dwarves in strange moods requesting very specific materials, though with all of the moods I've gone through in 40d, I have '''never''' seen any dwarf require any specific material other than Adamantine (and only for metalsmithing or clothesmaking moods, and only once I've actually discovered it). Are specific material preferences even present in the current version, or were they removed from the game entirely (along with many other things)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

:I've also never got such requests. And I've used Dwarf companion to crank out over 20 artifacts in a single fortress at least 3 times. All in all, I've probably seen over 100 different artifacts made and never had a single request for a specific material (I don't play a lot of fortresses with Adamantine, so that's why I've not seen those, and the few I have died due to too much [[fun]].) [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 18:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
::Not that rare actually - just had a mood that asked for silver bars. Often moodies ask specifically for one of silk ''or'' plant cloth, sometimes also specifically only one of rope reed ''or'' pig tail. Those demands are obviously tied to preferences, maybe moreso for the base material. Clear glass will also not be accepted as replacement for green glass, but maybe thats completely out of bounds, I never had an artifact with clear glass. I, too, can however not recall requests for a specific log, gem (cut or not), bone or leather, e.g. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Dwarves insisting on plant fiber cloth versus silk cloth is perfectly normal, though I don't think I've ever seen them specifically require pig tail cloth over rope reed cloth. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
::::I think that's a "plant cloth"/"animal cloth" distinction, sim to foods, mebbe? Reworded section about that to apply to "general items", not specific subtypes - the warning is still valid, as newbs still find themselves without silk or shells all the time. (Too bad, I miss that whole scramble.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::I suppose I should note that, in my (new) current fortress, I have had 2 moods which required a specific metal, netting me a trifle pewter table and a pig iron crossbow - when I tried forbidding every metal other than platinum/aluminum (for the blacksmith) or steel (for the weaponsmith), they just sat around until I gave them what they wanted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Failed fell mood ==

Recently, I had a child go into a fell mood. Many of my dwarves had recently died to a tantrum spiral, but there were still about 70 left. The fell child claimed a butcher's shop and sat there for a while, not saying or doing anything. Eventually a baby passed by the butcher's shop and the fell child promptly killed it in one hit (those dwarves need psychological help). However, the child did not do anything with the corpse, instead returning to the butcher's shop and sitting there. Eventually, some other dwarves came along and buried the baby. Although many other dwarves passed by the butcher's shop, the child never did anything else, and eventually went insane. This was my first fell mood, so I have only this page to tell me what's supposed to happen. Is this a bug? Has anyone else ever had a child go into a fell mood, or a baby killed by one? --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 03:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

:Did you have friendly corpses set to be forbidden on dropping from the (O)rders (F)orbid menu? Because then he'd fail to pick up the corpse when it dropped, and that might break the mood. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

== Doesn't want magma forge? ==

I didn't have any forges (just smelters) when a newly arrived weaponsmith had a secretive mood. I built two magma forges, but he didn't use them. I then built a metalsmith's forge, and he used it immediately. !? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 21:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's possible they'll only claim a magma forge if you have one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::This is addressed in the article...
When multiple workshops are listed, the dwarf may require one or the other, so ensure that ''both'' are available,...
::Yours didn't want the magma version, he would ''only'' accept the standard type. Quite common.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
:::The latest text makes it sound like a fortress with no magma could have a moody dwarf that wanted to use only a magma workshop, despite that being impossible. I've never had the privilege of working with magma, but I have seen dozens of moods, and as far as I know I haven't seen this happen; my mooders always seem to claim my mundane workshops. Has anyone else seen it happen? --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 23:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I've built non-magma on a magma map and had them turn their nose up at normal forges, and claim magma when normal are available. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:14, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::The latest revision resolves my concern. Thanks! --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed dwarves naming artifacts after themselves ==

Just had this happen to me for the second time. I'm not even talking talking about the artifact sharing a dorf's last name out of pure randomness, but artifacts with the exact same names of their creators, down to untranslated first names. Has this happened to anyone else? --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 19:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:I've had it happen several times, though usually only once or twice in a single fortress (out of over 50 artifacts). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen this happen when the dwarf in question had a custom name.

== Soldiers ==

I've had *recruits* get moods. Just recently in fact. However, it doesn't seem to happen if they have more than dabbling in any of the military skills and are activated as a soldier. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 05:11, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can not enter moods. Incidental military skills make no difference - eligibility (and weighting) depends purely on the actual profession, as listed at the time. Military professions include:
Axedwarf, Axe Lord, Champion, Crossbowdwarf, Elite Crossbowdwarf, Hammerdwarf, Hammer Lord, Macedwarf, Mace Lord, Marksdwarf, Elite Marksdwarf, Speardwarf, Spearmaster, Swordsdwarf, Swordmaster, Wrestler, and Elite Wrestler. "

That's in the article in the spoilers section under eligibility. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 05:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-12-11T05:16:27Z

Shardok: /* Soldiers */

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it mentions that it has spoilers its perfect--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== misc ==

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

==Glassmaker and Glass Furnace bug==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[User:Digger|Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
::::In my experience (all with 40d), all of my metalsmiths claim my magma forges (I always deconstruct the non-magma ones), but all of my glassmakers seem to insist on non-magma glass furnaces, forcing me to build one for them and then remember to deconstruct it after the mood completes (so my manager doesn't start allocating fuel-consuming glassmaking tasks to it). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
::::I can verify that glassmakers refuse to use magma glass furnaces, but will claim non-magma ones. I had 2 glassmakers, the first one died because he did not find a non-magma glass furnace, the second one refused as well to use the magma one, so i built him a non-magma-furnace which he instantly claimed. --[[User:Arni|Arni]]

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Noticed that my stonecrafter liked Yellow Diamonds, was requesting cut gems. I had a large pile of cut gems around, but no yellow diamonds. I cut some more of what I had to give him a chance, but still no result. Then, a long time later and about when he should have gone insane, he gave out up on his demands and just grabbed some Prases. It seems that when they reach their limit, they will give take whatever is available in that category. There's now no such thing as an iron-clad demand, ever, for a specific material as long as it fits the category (in my experience). The exception being silk/plant cloth, where sub-categories are used (a dwarf may prefer GCS silk, but if you can't get it he will eventually use regular if you have enough). If someone can confirm this, a note should be added to the page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 06:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)
:: And when I started to produce the demanded materials (silk cloth en masse) not until the mood? Will my moody go insane if he only gets them in homeopathic dosages? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]]
:::Nah, so long as he gets them before he cracks, it's all good - and 2 months sounds about right. Also note that so long as he is in the process of gathering, that clock is on hold - that's been demonstrated elsewhere. However, the "mood clock" doesn't reset until the current mood's done, so the sooner that's started and completed, the sooner you'll get another mood. There are only a half-score uncommon materials that a moody dwarf wants, so it's not hard to keep a few of each around for emergencies. Order them from the 1st Fall liaison, and you'll have them by 2nd Fall (if not before by luck).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::If you view '''any''' dwarf who is currently in a Strange Mood, that dwarf will seemingly always be "quite content" - Dwarf Companion seems to indicate that entering a mood resets a dwarf's happiness value to exactly 100. This seems to be the case for fey moods, possessions, and secretive moods - I've not yet had the misfortune of getting a fell mood or macabre mood (since my dwarves are always ecstatic), so it's possible those are different. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
::It does not depend on the exact experience points, just on the level/title. In my current game, I had an immigrant craftsdwarf get a mood. He was novice in bone carving, glass making, and leatherworking. I'd been training him up in glass making, and he was just a few xp away from hitting no label when he got his mood. (Exact xp levels were confirmed with Dwarf Therapist.) He claimed a crafts workshop, and became a legendary bone carver. (I'm just trying to update the main article with this information, but the damned thing won't let me log in. ¬_¬) --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 07:58, 09 October 2009 (UTC)

== Materials used ==

Before I struck adamantine, all metalworking moods (weapons, armor, furniture, crafts) would pick a randomly available metal and use it. However, ever since I struck adamantine, they '''always''' go straight for the wafers, even when it isn't in their preferences. Stone-related moods, however, don't seem to prefer raw adamantine over other nearby rocks. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Material Preferences ==

Stories from the old 2D version have included many accounts of dwarves in strange moods requesting very specific materials, though with all of the moods I've gone through in 40d, I have '''never''' seen any dwarf require any specific material other than Adamantine (and only for metalsmithing or clothesmaking moods, and only once I've actually discovered it). Are specific material preferences even present in the current version, or were they removed from the game entirely (along with many other things)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

:I've also never got such requests. And I've used Dwarf companion to crank out over 20 artifacts in a single fortress at least 3 times. All in all, I've probably seen over 100 different artifacts made and never had a single request for a specific material (I don't play a lot of fortresses with Adamantine, so that's why I've not seen those, and the few I have died due to too much [[fun]].) [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 18:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
::Not that rare actually - just had a mood that asked for silver bars. Often moodies ask specifically for one of silk ''or'' plant cloth, sometimes also specifically only one of rope reed ''or'' pig tail. Those demands are obviously tied to preferences, maybe moreso for the base material. Clear glass will also not be accepted as replacement for green glass, but maybe thats completely out of bounds, I never had an artifact with clear glass. I, too, can however not recall requests for a specific log, gem (cut or not), bone or leather, e.g. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Dwarves insisting on plant fiber cloth versus silk cloth is perfectly normal, though I don't think I've ever seen them specifically require pig tail cloth over rope reed cloth. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
::::I think that's a "plant cloth"/"animal cloth" distinction, sim to foods, mebbe? Reworded section about that to apply to "general items", not specific subtypes - the warning is still valid, as newbs still find themselves without silk or shells all the time. (Too bad, I miss that whole scramble.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
:::::I suppose I should note that, in my (new) current fortress, I have had 2 moods which required a specific metal, netting me a trifle pewter table and a pig iron crossbow - when I tried forbidding every metal other than platinum/aluminum (for the blacksmith) or steel (for the weaponsmith), they just sat around until I gave them what they wanted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

== Failed fell mood ==

Recently, I had a child go into a fell mood. Many of my dwarves had recently died to a tantrum spiral, but there were still about 70 left. The fell child claimed a butcher's shop and sat there for a while, not saying or doing anything. Eventually a baby passed by the butcher's shop and the fell child promptly killed it in one hit (those dwarves need psychological help). However, the child did not do anything with the corpse, instead returning to the butcher's shop and sitting there. Eventually, some other dwarves came along and buried the baby. Although many other dwarves passed by the butcher's shop, the child never did anything else, and eventually went insane. This was my first fell mood, so I have only this page to tell me what's supposed to happen. Is this a bug? Has anyone else ever had a child go into a fell mood, or a baby killed by one? --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 03:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

:Did you have friendly corpses set to be forbidden on dropping from the (O)rders (F)orbid menu? Because then he'd fail to pick up the corpse when it dropped, and that might break the mood. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

== Doesn't want magma forge? ==

I didn't have any forges (just smelters) when a newly arrived weaponsmith had a secretive mood. I built two magma forges, but he didn't use them. I then built a metalsmith's forge, and he used it immediately. !? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 21:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's possible they'll only claim a magma forge if you have one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
::This is addressed in the article...
When multiple workshops are listed, the dwarf may require one or the other, so ensure that ''both'' are available,...
::Yours didn't want the magma version, he would ''only'' accept the standard type. Quite common.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
:::The latest text makes it sound like a fortress with no magma could have a moody dwarf that wanted to use only a magma workshop, despite that being impossible. I've never had the privilege of working with magma, but I have seen dozens of moods, and as far as I know I haven't seen this happen; my mooders always seem to claim my mundane workshops. Has anyone else seen it happen? --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 23:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I've built non-magma on a magma map and had them turn their nose up at normal forges, and claim magma when normal are available. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:14, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::The latest revision resolves my concern. Thanks! --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed dwarves naming artifacts after themselves ==

Just had this happen to me for the second time. I'm not even talking talking about the artifact sharing a dorf's last name out of pure randomness, but artifacts with the exact same names of their creators, down to untranslated first names. Has this happened to anyone else? --[[User:Jackdaw|Jackdaw]] 19:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:I've had it happen several times, though usually only once or twice in a single fortress (out of over 50 artifacts). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::I've seen this happen when the dwarf in question had a custom name.

== Soldiers ==

I've had *recruits* get moods. Just recently in fact. However, it doesn't seem to happen if they have more than dabbling in any of the military skills and are activated as a soldier. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 05:11, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can not enter moods. Incidental military skills make no difference - eligibility (and weighting) depends purely on the actual profession, as listed at the time. Military professions include:

Axedwarf, Axe Lord, Champion, Crossbowdwarf, Elite Crossbowdwarf, Hammerdwarf, Hammer Lord, Macedwarf, Mace Lord, Marksdwarf, Elite Marksdwarf, Speardwarf, Spearmaster, Swordsdwarf, Swordmaster, Wrestler, and Elite Wrestler. " That's in the article in the spoilers section under eligibility. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 05:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

40d:Strange mood

2009-12-11T05:13:06Z

Shardok: /* Overview */ That is the proper way it should read.

Periodically, individual dwarves are struck with an idea for a [[legendary artifact]] and enter a '''strange mood'''. Dwarves which enter a strange mood will stop whatever they are doing and pursue the construction of this artifact to the exclusion of all else. This will be based on a particular [[skill]] that creates a finished end product that can have a [[quality]], rather than intermediary material such as bars of metal or raw food. They will not stop to eat, drink, sleep, or even run away from dangerous creatures. If they do not manage to begin construction of the artifact within a handful of months, they will go [[Strange mood#Failure|insane]] and die soon afterward.

A dwarf will only be struck by a mood once in their lifetime. Upon completion of their artifact they will usually become [[legendary]] in that skill, and will then return to their normal life in the fortress with their newfound skill. A fortress will only have at most one dwarf in a strange mood at any one time.

==Overview==
The entire process can be summarized as follows:
# Strange moods can only occur when the below necessary [[#Conditions|conditions]] are met. [[baby|Babies]] and activated [[Soldier]]s with military skills cannot enter moods, nor [[Noble#Immigrant_Nobles|immigrant nobles]], but any other dwarf can, including [[child]]ren.
# The game will pause, center on a dwarf, and announce that the dwarf has entered one of five different types of strange moods. The [[#Types|types of mood]] are listed below. While in a mood, a dwarf will display a blinking exclamation point (see [[status icons]]).
# For the duration of the mood, the dwarf will claim a workshop related to the skill that the mood affects (not all skills are eligible), kick out any dwarf who was using it, and render it otherwise unusable until the mood has been resolved. If a moody dwarf does not claim a workshop, it is because the appropriate workshop does not exist. (See [[#Skills and workshops|skills and workshops]] below to determine which workshop(s) might be required.) A moody dwarf will ''not'' be available to build a needed workshop; another dwarf with the appropriate [[labor]] designation must do so for them, if one is necessary.
# After claiming a workshop, the dwarf will set about collecting the required materials for their artifact. If the dwarf remains idle inside the workshop, it's because they cannot find the right material. Reference the [[#Demands|demands]] section to determine what may be required.
# Once all materials have been gathered, the game will once again pause and center, and the moody dwarf will begin construction. Upon completion the dwarf will create a semi-random artifact related to the skill affected and gain [[legendary]] (or higher) status in that skill (unless the mood type is [[#Possessed|possessed]]). See the [[#Skills and workshops|skills and workshops]] for information on which skills can be gained, or the [[#Artifacts created|artifacts created]] section for more details on the artifacts themselves.

== Types of moods ==
For each of the following types of moods, the first message is how the mood is [[Announcement|announced]]; the second message appears in the dwarf's profile when he or she is viewed with the {{K|v}} key. All moody dwarves will have "Strange Mood" listed as their active task.

=== Fey ===
* {{Gametext|<dwarf> is taken by a fey mood!|#fff}}
: ''Has the aspect of one fey!''

This is the most basic strange mood. Fey dwarves will clearly state their demands when the workshop they are in is examined.

A fey dwarf's happiness is automatically set to 'quite content'.

=== Secretive ===
* {{Gametext|<dwarf> withdraws from society...|#ccc}}
: ''Peculiarly secretive...''

Secretive moods are the same as fey moods, except a secretive dwarf will sketch pictures of their required materials instead of clearly stating their demands if they cannot find what they need. Descriptions of all these [[Mood#Demands|secretive requirements]] can be seen only by viewing the workshop that the moody dwarf has claimed, with {{k|q}}, and then only while the dwarf is waiting inside it. More than one "picture" is likely; these will cycle through the entire list automatically if any one is not available. (Since materials are gathered ''in order'', it's quite possible that only one of a long list is needed to allow the moody dwarf to continue on their project. If the dwarf has gathered some of the materials (seen as "tasked" when looking at the workshop with {{k|t}}), then the next in the list is what they are looking for.)

A secretive dwarf's happiness is automatically set to 'quite content'.

=== Possessed ===
* {{Gametext|<dwarf> has been possessed!|#f0f}}
: ''Possessed by unknown forces!''

Possessed dwarves have cryptic material requests, and have the unfortunate distinction of not receiving any experience upon successful construction of an artifact. It is unknown if controllable circumstances lead to a possessed mood instead of one of the more desirable fey or secretive moods. Possessed dwarves will mutter the name of the artifact they are working on once they have all the materials they need.

A possession is the only mood that does ''not'' result in a jump in [[experience]].

A possessed dwarf's happiness is automatically set to 'quite content'.

=== Fell ===
* {{Gametext|<dwarf> looses a roaring laughter, fell and terrible!|#a0a}}
: ''Has a horrible fell look!''

A dwarf that goes into a fell mood will always take over a [[butcher's shop]] or a [[tanner's shop]]. The dwarf will then ''murder'' the nearest dwarf, drag the corpse into the shop and make some sort of object out of dwarf [[leather]] or [[bone]]. Once the artifact is completed, the fell dwarf will become a legendary [[bone carver]] or [[leatherworker]]. Strangely, none of the other dwarves seem to mind the murder. Only unhappy dwarves may enter a fell mood.

Aside from the potential loss of an important dwarf in the wrong place at the wrong time, there doesn't seem to be any downside to a fell mood. The end result is always an artifact and a legendary craftsdwarf. Since the only ingredient used (a dwarf) is available in abundance, a fell mood will only fail if the fell dwarf is completely isolated from other dwarves, or if the proper workshop does not exist.

=== Macabre ===
* {{Gametext|<dwarf> begins to stalk and brood...|#777}}
: ''Brooding darkly...''

Macabre moods are similar to fell moods, but the dwarf will not murder a fellow dwarf. A macabre dwarf may require bones, skulls, and chunks/remains; if you do not happen to have any, you will have to "make" some, or let the moody dwarf go insane. Like fell moods, only unhappy dwarves can enter macabre moods.

{{Spoiler}}

== Demands ==
Once a workshop is claimed, the dwarf will begin collecting materials. Each artifact will require between one and ten materials to complete. If the moody dwarf remains idle, then the necessary materials are not available. [[Forbidden]] items must be reclaimed ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|c}}) before they may be used, but moody dwarves will ignore settings regarding [[economic stone]]. Press {{K|q}} and highlight the workshop to receive a series of clues about what the dwarf needs. Hints that stay active for longer than 2 seconds mean that multiple pieces of that material will be required; each single demand will be displayed for 2 seconds, so if it says "gems... shining" for 6 seconds, 3 gems are demanded. Materials will always be fetched ''in order'', so if at least one item has already been retrieved (the items will show up with "TSK" ("task") next to them when the workshop is viewed with the {{K|t}} context menu), it will usually be possible to tell what item is required next.

You can use this to your advantage to get your dwarf to pick specific types of items, even if the moody dwarf has already started storing materials in their workshop: if a fey weaponsmith starts piling up copper bars, forbid those bars and he'll go pick another bar instead. If you forbid all metals except say steel (the stocks screen makes this fairly convenient), then he'll skip all those other metals and make his artifact weapon out of strong, valuable steel instead of whatever random inferior metal he might have picked otherwise. Don't forbid any of his materials after your dwarf has begun building his artifact - he won't go back to collecting materials once started and will end up going insane.

Note though that if a dwarf has a demand for a specific item, such as a [[bar|bar of metal]], raw [[gem]], or [[shell]], then that item type will be ''required''. For this reason, it is usually a good idea to keep an example of each item type on hand, particularly cut and raw gems, shells, bones, leather, raw (green) glass, both silk and plant cloth.

In somewhat rarer cases, a dwarf with a personality preference for a specific material, such as steel or silver [[bars]], will demand exactly that specific sub-type of material. For this reason, it is a good idea to keep as many types of material on hand as possible, including the three different kinds of glass. Forbidding materials won't let you get around this either: if they want a specific material subtype and you forbid it in favor of something else, they'll just sulk in their workshop until you unforbid the material or they are able to find it some other way - or they go [[insane]]. Asking a liaison for likely materials ''in advance'' is a good plan - "next year" is far too long for a moody dwarf to last. Check your dwarves' [[preference]]s if you care.

Once you have struck [[Adamantine]], all moods which use cloth or metal as a primary component will insist on using Adamantine cloth or wafers over all other materials; moody dwarves which happen to want metal for decorations will still choose bars based on distance or preference. Moods involving stone crafting or masonry will not prefer [[raw Adamantine]] over other stones.

The various demands are translated here:

:{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:left;width:90%;"
|-
! Material
! Fey
! Secretive
! Possessed
|-
|
| <dwarf> screams "I must have <demand>!"
| <dwarf> sketches pictures of <demand>.
| <dwarf> mutters "<artifact> needs <demand>..."
|-
| [[Stone]]
| rock
| a quarry
| stone... rock
|-
| Stone [[block]]
| rock blocks
| square blocks
| blocks... bricks
|-
| [[Wood]]
| wood logs
| a forest
| tree... life
|-
| Metal [[bar]]
| metal bars
| shining bars of metal
| bars... metal
|-
| [[Gem]]s (cut)
| cut gems
| cut gems
| gems... shining
|-
| [[Gem]]s (raw)
| rough gems
| rough gems
| rough... color
|-
| [[Glass]] (green)
| raw green glass
| glass
| raw... green
|-
| [[Glass]] (clear)
| clear glass{{verify}}
| glass and burning wood
| raw... clear
|-
| [[Glass]] (crystal)
| crystal glass{{verify}}
| rough gems and glass
| raw... crystal
|-
| [[Bone]]
| bones
| skeletons
| bones... yes
|-
| [[Shell]]
| shells
| a shell
| a shell...
|-
| [[Leather]]
| tanned hides
| stacked leather
| leather... skin
|-
| [[Cloth]] (plant)
| plant fiber cloth
| stacked cloth
| cloth... thread
|-
| [[Cloth]] (silk)
| silk cloth
| stacked cloth
| cloth... thread
|}

====Known quirk====
On maps with magma, dwarfs* who intend to create an artifact at a [[forge]] or [[glass furnace]] may only be willing to use a standard (non-magma) version, or only a magma version, and will find the other completely unacceptable. If they are just standing around, then they won't use the type you have, and you will have to build the other type for them (though no [[fuel]] will be required if using a standard, non-magma version).
:''(* This would include most all [[armorsmith]]s, [[blacksmith]]s, [[metalsmith]]s, [[weaponsmith]]s, and [[glassmaker]]s, and any whose mood is dictated by the relevant skills.)''

== The mechanics of moods ==

=== Frequency===
When a fortress is started, an internal counter is set to 1000. Around 11 or 12 times per day, this counter is decremented by 1, running down to zero in about 3 months. When the counter would ordinarily be decremented when it has already reached zero, there is a 1 in 500 chance that a strange mood will strike. This means that, once all conditions are met and the clock is ticking, while there is approximately a 2.4% chance of a strange mood per day, or ''very approximately'' a 50% chance of a strange mood per month, there is no guarantee when a mood will strike - might be sooner, might be (almost) never.

=== Conditions ===
In order for a dwarf to be struck with a strange mood, three conditions must be met:
:* There is no currently active strange mood,
:* The maximum number of artifacts is not met,
:* There are at least 20 eligible dwarves ''(see below)''.

If all three of these conditions are true, the game may trigger a strange mood according to the frequency.

==== Maximum number of artifacts ====
The maximum number of artifacts in any one fortress is limited by the lower of:
* The number of items created divided by 200. It is unknown whether mined-out rock counts as an "item created", or whether bolts and units of drink are counted individually.
* The number of revealed [[subterranean]] tiles divided by 2308 (this is an area equivalent to a 48x48 square). Using [[Exploratory mining|exploratory methods]] is a great way to increase your artifact limit.

==== Eligibility ====
The deciding factor for eligibility is a dwarf's actual [[profession]]. ''(Note that "[[Skill#Custom profession labels|custom professions]]" have no effect on this!)'' Thus, dwarves may enter strange moods regardless of what skills they have or don't have, so long as they are of an acceptable profession. Dwarves who have already created an artifact are not eligible to create another, and since every mood ends in either an artifact or death, every dwarf may enter at most one mood. Dwarves who have obtained one or more legendary skills without creating artifacts may enter strange moods.

Appointed [[nobles]] may enter moods as per their default profession, but [[Noble#Immigrant Nobles|immigrant nobles]] are '''not''' eligible for moods. That includes:
:Advisor, Baron/ess, Baron/ess Consort, Count/ess, Countess Consort, Duke/Duchess, Duke/Duchess Consort, Dungeon Master, Hammerer, King/Queen, King/Queen Consort, Philosopher, and Tax Collector.

Further, dwarfs with a [[Soldier#Soldier professions|military profession]] other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods. Incidental military skills make no difference - eligibility (and weighting) depends purely on the actual ''[[profession]]'', as listed at the time. Military professions include:
:Axedwarf, Axe Lord, Champion, Crossbowdwarf, Elite Crossbowdwarf, Hammerdwarf, Hammer Lord, Macedwarf, Mace Lord, Marksdwarf, Elite Marksdwarf, Speardwarf, Spearmaster, Swordsdwarf, Swordmaster, Wrestler, and Elite Wrestler.

Babies may '''not''' enter moods.

Any other profession is eligible to enter a mood, but not all have the same ''chance'' to enter a mood...

:''('''Note''' - Specifically, and to avoid previous misunderstandings, [[Strand extractor]], [[Clerk]], [[Administrator]], [[Trader]], [[Architect]], [[Alchemist]], [[Soldier#Recruits|Recruit]] and [[Child]] '''are''' moodable professions.)''

=== Chance ===
When determining who will have a strange mood, each eligible dwarf is put into a weighted lottery. The odds are assigned a higher or lower weight based on the dwarf's [[profession]]. The default weight is 6, but some professions are more likely to enter a strange mood than others. (This is like most dwarfs getting 6 tickets to the lottery, and others getting more.)

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="2" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Weighting
! Professions

|-
| 21 ||Armorer, Blacksmith, Bone Carver, Clothier, Craftsdwarf, Jeweler, Gem Cutter, Gem Setter, Glassmaker, Leatherworker, Metalcrafter, Metalsmith, Stonecrafter, Weaponsmith, Weaver, Woodcrafter
|-
| 11 ||Bowyer, Carpenter, Stoneworker, Mason, Woodworker
|-
| 6 ||All other eligible professions

|}

:'''''Example:''' What this means is: if you had 21 dwarves, made up of 20 eligible farmers, furnace operators, woodcutters & etc (with 6 chances each), plus one Armorer (with 21 chances), that one Armorer would have a 21 in 141 chance (20 dwarves x 6 chances each = 120, + 21 chances more = 141 total) of the mood striking them. That's about 1 in 7, while the other 20 have a 6 in 141 chance each, or about 1 in 24. The odds are still against the armorer, but much better than for any other single dwarf.''

Note that not every profession is from a moodable skill. An Alchemist, Architect, Furnace Operator or Strand Extractor can be taken by a mood, but that will not make those skills legendary, nor will they create an artifact bar of soap, building, bar of metal or wafer of adamantine.

:NOTE: ''If your game was saved shortly before one of you dwarves acquired a mood, reloading that game will most likely cause the chances to be completely re-figured, resulting in a different mood at a different time for a different dwarf with different materials. This is true for most all random events and results in Dwarf Fortress.''

=== Skills and workshops ===

{| class="wikitable" cellpadding="4" style="border:1px solid black;border-collapse:collapse;text-align:left;float:right;margin:0 0 20px 30px;"
|-
! colspan="2" style="background-color:#eee;border-bottom:1px solid black;text-align:center;" | Artifact Skill Rewards
|-
! Highest skill
! Workshop used
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Armorsmith]]
| [[Magma forge]] or [[Metalsmith's forge]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Bonecarver]]
| [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Bowyer]]
| [[Bowyer's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Carpenter]]
| [[Carpenter's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Clothier]]
| [[Clothier's shop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Engraver]]
| [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] or [[Mason's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Gem cutter]]
| [[Jeweler's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Gem setter]]
| [[Jeweler's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Glassmaker]]
| [[Glass furnace]] or [[Magma glass furnace]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Leatherworker]]
| [[Leatherworks]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Mason]]
| [[Mason's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Mechanic]]
| [[Mechanic's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Metal crafter]]
| [[Magma forge]] or [[Metalsmith's forge]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Metalsmith]]
| [[Magma forge]] or [[Metalsmith's forge]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Miner]]
| [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] or [[Mason's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Stone crafter]]
| [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Tanner]]
| [[Tanner's shop]] or [[Leather works]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Weaponsmith]]
| [[Magma forge]] or [[Metalsmith's forge]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Weaver]]
| [[Clothier's shop]]
|- style="border-top:1px solid #aaa;vertical-align:top;"
| [[Wood crafter]]
| [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]
|}

A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill, and upon completion of the artifact, gain 20,000 [[experience]] in that skill (excepting [[Mood#Possessed|possessed]] dwarves). This will give the dwarf a legendary-level [[skill]] (specifically, "legendary+1" or higher, depending on the dwarf's initial skill level) and a number of [[attribute]] gains. The table to the right describes all applicable skills and their potential workshop requirements - there are only 20 skills that determine the workshop and that can be affected by a mood (sometimes referred to as '''moodable''' skills.) If a dwarf does not possess at least one of the mooodable skills listed to the right, they will take over a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] and gain one of [[bonecarver]], [[stone crafter]], or [[wood crafter]] skills, producing an artifact [[craft]].

If a dwarf has the same experience points in two skills (as opposed to same experience title), the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood (the exact experience can only be made visible with 3rd party [[utilities]]).

When multiple workshops are listed, the dwarf may require one or the other, so ensure that ''both'' are available, if possible. If you have one, and the dwarf is not interested, then build the other, right away. (i.e. If you have only [[magma forge]]s, you may have to build a standard [[forge]] for the moody dwarf).

Below is a list of all ''non''-moodable skills; if all of a dwarfs skills are found on this list and none from the table to the right, then they have no moodable skills and will construct their artifact at a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]], producing an appropriate craft as described above:

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| style="padding-right:30px;" |
* [[Ambusher]]
* [[Animal caretaker]]
* [[Animal dissector]]
* [[Animal trainer]]
* [[Appraiser]]
* [[Building designer|Architect]]
* [[Brewer]]
* [[Butcher]]
* [[Cheese maker]]
* [[Cook]]
* [[Dyer]]
* [[Fish cleaner]]
* [[Fish dissector]]
* [[Fisherdwarf]]
* [[Furnace operator]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Herbalist]]
|
* [[Lye maker]]
* [[Milker]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Potash maker]]
* [[Pump operator]]
* [[Record keeper]]
* [[Siege engineer]]
* [[Siege operator]]
* [[Soaper]]
* [[Strand extractor]]
* [[Thresher]]
* [[Trapper]]
* [[Wood cutter]]
* [[Wood burner]]
* All [[military]] skills
* All [[social skill]]s
|}

This fact can be utilized to maximize the possibility of getting a dwarf with the specific legendary skill you want: since ''non''-moodable skills are ignored, when ever possible make sure that each dwarf's highest ''moodable'' skill is one of those you want*. Have all your peasants, [[farmer]]s, non-professional military and other dwarves without any moodable skills do a tiny bit of work in the skill(s) you most want; if a "[[dabbling]]" skill is the highest moodable skill they have, that is the skill that will be used.

:''(* [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Metal crafter|Metal Crafter]] and [[Metalsmith]] are possibly the most-desired legendary skills, but much depends on your fortress, your current mix of skills, and your play style.)''

:''(Note that [[Tanner]] is a moodable skill, the only [[Farmer]] category skill that is moodable.)''

== Artifacts created ==
The type of artifact created will depend on the dwarf's highest skill. Masons will always create some kind of stone object, usually furniture; bone Carvers, a bone or shell object; carpenters, a wood object, etc. Miners and engravers will usually turn out a stone craft or piece of furniture; metalworkers, metal crafts, weapons, or armor (depending on the type of metalworker); weavers, an article of clothing; tanners, a leather armor or object. If a dwarf has no moodable skills, they will take over a [[craftdwarf's workshop]] and create a bone, stone or wood craft of some type. The precise type of craft created is usually somewhat random but if a dwarf has a personality preference for a particular thing, such as gauntlets or floodgates or crowns, and that thing is an available choice given the dwarf's profession, he will generally create an object of that type.

The first object grabbed by the dwarf will be the "primary" substance; all other materials will be used to decorate the artifact. If a dwarf grabs a piece of [[chalk]] and makes a statue, for instance, it will be a "chalk statue", but an artifact can potentially be composed of bone, cloth, gems, leather, metal, shell, stone, and wood all at once. In some cases, a moody dwarf will produce an item which normally cannot be made from that material, leading to such odd constructions as an [[obsidian]] [[bed]], [[ruby]] [[floodgate]], or turtle [[shell]] [[cage]].

Once created, most [[artifact]]s will be available for use just like a normal item of its type. Artifact furniture is useful for high value [[noble]] rooms. [[Weapon]]s and [[armor]] will only be used by heroes and champions. Artifact weapons in [[Trap#Weapon Trap|weapon traps]] can also boost a room's value considerably, as in the case of artifact trap components.

== Failure ==
If you can't provide the desired workshop and all the required component materials within a couple of months, the dwarf will go [[insane]], which cancels the mood and the artifact. As if that's not bad enough, any dwarf who goes insane will soon die, one way or another.

A dwarf who is [[melancholy]] or [[stark raving mad]] is harmless to others (until they die and start a [[tantrum]] spiral), but a [[berserk]] dwarf will attack other dwarfs and possibly pull levers at random. You may want to station a squad nearby or assign a few war dogs to the dwarf on the chance that they will lash out. If you build your workshops inside enclosed rooms with doors you can also lock the moody dwarf in the room until he or she starves. In extreme cases, building a wall around an open workshop is the best precaution.

Most events that would ordinarily interrupt a dwarf will not deter a moody dwarf - for example, while passing out from pain will cancel most tasks, a moody dwarf will continue working as soon as he wakes up. Giving birth while in a strange mood does not interrupt the dwarf either; the new mother will ignore the baby until her mood is resolved and it will happily wander off in the meantime.

Severe distractions such as hostile creatures, however, can interrupt a strange mood, resulting in immediate insanity; similar results will happen if the workshop suddenly becomes unavailable, whether from being destroyed (by a cave-in or a dwarf throwing a tantrum) or from losing power (in the case of magma workshops). Note that the insanity can happen even when the dwarf is not deadlocked on an item; there have been observed instances where a dwarf goes insane while in the process of carrying a required item back to the commandeered workshop.

----

'''See also'''
:*[[Insanity]]
:*[[Legendary artifact|Artifact]]
:*[[Profession]]
:*[[Legendary|Legendary Skill]]

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-12-11T05:11:50Z

Shardok:

40d:System requirements

2009-12-06T00:08:31Z

Shardok: Can't see any reason not to put that information into this.

''If you're looking for information on improving the performance of Dwarf Fortress on your computer, see [[Maximizing Framerate]].''

General Requirements:

:* Operating System: Requires Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98, or newer ''(If on a non-Windows OS, see [[System requirements#Other Operating Systems]] for information on how to install Dwarf Fortress)''

:* Disk Space: ~100MB. The game itself takes only about 20MB, but savegames and screenshots (if you take them) use considerable amounts of disk space. It is possible to use over a gigabyte of disk space with Dwarf Fortress.

:* RAM: 256MB. The game uses 150+ MB memory while running (more if you select a local grid larger than 6x6). The more creatures, objects, and explored space on your map, the more memory you will need. Most of this can be kept in virtual memory (page file), but be sure to have at least 500MB total (physical + virtual) memory available. [[World generation]] requires 400MB at its peak.

:* CPU: Dwarf Fortress is able to use as much CPU power as you can provide it with. While a Pentium II at 500Mhz is initially sufficient, your frame-rate will substantially decrease as your population increases, among other factors. Keep in mind that Dwarf Fortress will only run on one CPU at a time. There doesn't appear to be any indication that Dwarf Fortress will support multi-threading in the near future.

The larger your map and the more units on it, the harder your computer will need to work. The speed of the simulation depends on the size of the map, the number of entities (dwarves, pets, etc.), the number of levels (mountainous maps have more depth levels), the number of objects and other factors. Modern computers should be able to run 3x3 maps with medium-sized fortresses at 80-100 FPS. Particularly fast processors may be able to handle much larger maps at the same speed.

===Dual-core machines===

If you're running a lot of things at once while playing Dwarf Fortress, open Task Manager and set DF to Core1 and everything else to Core0. You will now have an entire core dedicated to running DF, which should give slightly better performance. Multi-threading support isn't currently implemented.

==Other Operating Systems==
===Linux===
Although DF is a Windows game, it works perfectly in Linux using Wine, as long as you have video drivers with working OpenGL acceleration – for all NVIDIA and newer ATI cards, this means using the vendor's closed source driver. Without 2D acceleration the game runs slow as [[Dwarven syrup]]. Most distributions provide Wine, so consult your distribution-specific documentation for help.

See [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000448 this thread] for tips about Ubuntu and other distributions.

On 24 December, 2008 Toady released the first native Linux version of Dwarf Fortress. It is compiled for 32-bit environments, however, and may not run under 64-bit environments without additional libraries, depending on the Linux distribution.

====Ubuntu/Kubuntu====
Under an Ubuntu/Kubuntu installation one first of all needs the ia32-libs package installed. This is a standard Ubuntu package that contains 32-bit versions of many common libraries. Unfortunately, while it includes 32-bit versions of some SDL libaries, older versions of this package lack SDL_image, which Dwarf Fortress needs.
'''''In Jaunty Jackalope''' (Ubuntu 9.04) this shared library is included in the ia32-libs package and '''you can skip the other steps in this section.'''''

The 32-bit package can be downloaded directly from [http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libsdl-image1.2/download Ubuntu's package repository]. Once the download is complete, open a console window and navigate to the directory containing the file. Extract the contents by typing:

dpkg-deb -x libsdl-image1.2_1.2.6-3_i386.deb ./libsdl-image

Copy the files from libsdl-image/usr/lib into the df_linux/libs directory and the game should now work.
:If you have extremely low FPS make sure you have turned on your graphics card enabled in the ''Hardware Drivers''.

====Ubuntu/Kubuntu - Using getlibs====
The other way to get the require SDL_image library is to use getlibs, which will get the correct 32bit library when run on 64bit Ubuntu and create all the required links.

At a command prompt:
sudo apt-get install ia32-libs getlibs
sudo getlibs -l libSDL_image-1.2.so.0

The game can now be run from the df_linux folder (or wherever you extracted it to) using the df bash script.

==== Gentoo ====

The required libraries can be pulled from portage before running DF.

For x86, you will need the basic GTK/OpenGL/SDL stuff, plus sdl-image, which means the following packages:

* x11-libs/gtk+:2
* media-libs/libsdl
* media-libs/sdl-image
* virtual/opengl
* virtual/glu

For amd64, you will need the 32-bit emulation libraries instead. Note that sdl-image is already included in the sdl emulation package, so you need:

* app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-sdl
* >=app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-baselibs-20081109 (earlier versions may not provide a 32-bit libgio-2.0.so)
* app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-xlibs
* app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-gtklibs

==== Arch ====

The required libs can be pulled from pacman before running.

If using Gnome, or KDE with some Gnome applications, the following will most likely be installed already:

* gtk2
* libgl
* sdl
* sdl_image

In addition, libtiff (<= 4, to be exact) is also required. Libtiff 4 is not available on Arch. Linking or copying /usr/lib/libtiff.so.3.8.2 to /usr/lib/libtiff.so.4 is sufficient.

The Dwarf Fortress files can be installed with an AUR frontend, or from the AUR itself if so inclined. The current files are at [http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=22795 this page.]

At a command prompt:
wget http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/dwarffortress/dwarffortress.tar.gz
tar xvzf dwarffortress.tar.gz
cd dwarffortress
makepkg -s
su
pacman -U dwarffortress-v0.28.181.40d11-5-i686.pkg.tar.gz

===OS X===
A port of Dwarf Fortress to Mac OS X has been completed, and runs on both Intel and PPC based macs. According to the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Website]
it requires system 10.3 or later, 100mb of hard drive space, and a minimum of 512mb of ram.

==Optimizing Dwarf Fortress==
You can greatly increase game speed on all systems; details at [[Maximizing framerate]].

==Example results: What you can expect with various machines==

=== Intel Processors ===
'''Celeron M 353 @ 630 mhz, Windows XP(custom optimized), DF v0.27.176.38c:'''
* smallest map possible with the smallest site (2x2, assuming no modding),
* 7 dwarves,
* 12 revealed creatures,
* flatland only 1z above ground, 15z underground, volcano, some lakes, no underground water, speed boosting edits in init.txt,
* 10FPS on fullscreen mode and 20 on window mode,
* play it on a desktop or a better EEE PC. :-(

'''Celeron M @ 900 MHz, Ubuntu-eee 8.04, DF .40d11'''
* 4x4 site,
* 150 dwarves,
* some beginners mistakes in logistics,
* ~5 FPS (Dwarven Syrup)

''' Atom @ 1.6 GHz, Windows XP, DF 40d11'''
* 6x6 site
* 70 ('''non-laboring''') dwarves
* 76 misc (revealed) creatures
* brook, magma pipe, bottomless pit, chasm, HFS, underground river
* HFS & UR are unbreached
* ~70 fps

'''Pentium 4 @ 2.2 GHz, (unknown OS), DF 0.27.169.33g:'''
* 3x3 site,
* ~80 dwarves
* relatively hilly (ten z-levels of elevation change), without magma but with unfrozen brook, no caves, lakes, or monsters; virtually all possible speed-boosting edits in init.txt applied,
* 30-45 FPS (varies) and occasional interface jerkiness is becoming noticeable

'''Core Duo 4400 @ 2 ghz, Windows Vista, DF .38c'''
* 3x3 site,
* 120 dwarves
* <10 roaming animals
* pretty cliffy, volcano, part of river and pretty big artificial pool,
* ~50 fps (~30 when merchants arrive or many hauling jobs start)

'''Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 2.4 ghz, Windows XP SP2, DF 0.28.181.40d16'''
* 6x6 site
* 95 (laboring) dwarves
* cave-ins, temp., weather disabled, no elevation changes at ground-level, no special sites
* 5-40 fps (play capped @ 30 fps, dips frequent, avg @ ~20 fps)

'''Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2 Ghz, Windows 7 RC, (unknown DF version #)'''
* medium-sized site (assumed ~4x4)
* 151 dwarves
* 170 animals
* around 400 creatures (dwarves + animals + merchants + wildlife)
* brook, magma pipe, HFS, chasm
* 22 z-levels
* 15-25 FPS, (avg @ 20-21 fps)

'''Pentium D 940 @ 3.17 ghz, Windows XP SP2, DF 0.28.181.40d16'''
* 6x6 site
* 95 (laboring) dwarves
* cave-ins, temp., weather disabled, no elevation changes at ground-level, no special sites
* 30-65 fps (play capped @ 50 fps, dips occasionally, avg @ ~40 fps)

=== AMD Processors ===

'''Athlon XP 2200 @ 1.8 ghz, Windows XP, DF .38c'''
* 6x6 site,
* A/V software & Dwarf Foreman running in background,
* slightly upwards slanted hill, human town,
* 35-40 FPS with 17 humans, 38-48 FPS with 7 (Drops to 30-35 with alot of hauling or when viewing 1 z level up)

'''Phenom 9600 @ 2.4 ghz, Windows XP SP2, DF 0.28.181.40d16'''
* 6x6 site
* 95 (laboring) dwarves
* cave-ins, temp., weather disabled, no elevation changes at ground-level, no special sites
* 10-50 fps (play capped @ 40 fps, dips frequent, avg @ ~25 fps)

'''Athlon64X2 5600 @ 2.8GHz, Ubuntu 9.04, DF .40d11'''
* 6x6 site
* 32 dwarves
* lava, wildfires, and flowing water.
* ~100 FPS

'''Phenom II 955 @ 3.5 ghz, Windows XP SP2, DF 0.28.181.40d16'''
* 6x6 site
* 95 (laboring) dwarves
* cave-ins, temp., weather disabled, no elevation changes at ground-level, no special sites
* 45-90 fps (play capped @ 60, rarely dips below max, avg @ ~55 fps)

==See also==
*[[Maximizing framerate]]

[[Category:FAQ]]

40d Talk:Baron

2009-11-13T01:11:40Z

Shardok: /* The Jobs */

==(preliminary requirements discussion)==
I've had a Baron (and Hammerer and Tax Collector) arrive when my population was exactly 80 and when my population was capped in the init.txt file at 80. I'm confident that the requirement of 100 people is wrong. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Likewise, my current fortress has 134 people and 1.5M in created wealth, but no baron. I'm reasonably certain this must be some sort of weighted random arrival. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 18:22, 6 January 2008 (EST)

2.5 Millon wealth, 232 dwarfs, 4K exported wealth. Last year I did all the jobs required, certain of that. I can only think its my exported wealth. I'm guna try raising it to just over 10K, do the jobs again and wait. Think this should be added to the wiki page, give a rough estimate of the number if i do get a migrant baron next year. (My populatin cap is 400 at the moment)--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 16:16, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Oops, I killed the consort ==

The consort was making mandates I could not satisfy, so he had to go. This has caused some kind of problem though... my fortress will not upgrade to a county so I can get the king. I am considering killing my baroness as well, and attempting to reset the whole situation. Any suggestions? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:Kiilll them! Kiiilll them! Kiiilllll them alllll! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:52, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hammerer and tax collector ==

Do the hammerer and tax collector always arrive along with the Baron? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:26, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I Don't think that its Always the case but it seems to frequently be the case for me; all of my forts that I allow nobles they tend to show up together. --Silver
:I suspect that some are prerequisite for the others, i.e. would a baron ever show up at a fort that didn't have a tax collector? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:38, 23 December 2008 (EST)

They do come at the same time. Heck, my baron appeared first, even. But no, I think that the article has it correct.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 19:47, 24 December 2008 (EST)
==Peasant King==

I got the [[King]] as a peasant due to discovering [[Adamantine]]. I don't appear to be getting a Baron, tax collector, hammerer or a royal guard. Is this a bug? -[[User:Rushyo|Rushyo]] 21:54, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:The peasant king happens independently of other nobles in my experience. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Minimum Exported Wealth? ==

Im pretty sure there's gotta be a Minimum exported wealth for the baron to arrive, I satisfy all the other conditions, and have over 1.6 million created wealth, 163 dwarves, and my dwarves do well over the job requirements. However, I as of now, only have 30426 Exported wealth. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 16:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Duke arrived at 32435 exported wealth. No baron yet. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 00:37, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

:That's because the Duke is an 'upgraded' version of the count, which is an 'upgraded' version of the baron. Once you have a Duke, you won't ever get a Baron. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 17:31, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

::Once my exported wealth topped 10k I got the Baroness the next migrant season. I was down at 8k exported for about 3 years and had at least that many migrant waves without a baron during the same time. 17th of Slate in the year 308, population 139 (not counting the new tax collector thats just on the edge of the map), 1,912,970 created wealth, 235,635 imported, 11,558 exported. I've also traded with a group of Elves but they hadn't left the map by the time the migrants arrived and it only put my exported wealth to 11,958. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 11:38, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:::No disagreement since January - removing the "verify" tag from EW.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== share rooms? ==

does the baron and his consort share a room? or do I need to make an extra pair of tombs/dining rooms/bedrooms? --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 17:14, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:Yup, consorts demand all their own rooms, and neither will be happy if you try to cram them together. The only room that doesn't need to be doubled up is the office/throne room, since the Consort doesn't conduct diplomacy. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 21:41, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Incorrect Baron Prerequisites? ==

I just got a Baron, Tax Collector, and Hammerer and have never done a single metal crafting job. I did, however, Cage Trap a Titan in the previous month though. The quote from Toady One at the bottom of the Baron page would appear to be in error in this case. -- [[User:unseenmage|unseenmage]] 14 January 2009

:I think you are misunderstanding the quote. There are a variety of categories, and you must have done the required number of jobs for 4 of those categories. Nothing requires you to have specifically done metal crafting jobs (which would only count towards 'metal related' if you did do some). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:33, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Merging ==
I would like to suggest the merging of Baron, Count and Duke. Manager and his upgrades only use one page. Each is only a minor upgrade from another and has no vastly different requirements. It would make it easier to view them as they are all connected. Anyone agree/disagree?--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 06:38, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:Sounds good to me--[[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 10:48, 14 February 2009 (EST)
::strongly disagree - requirements and arrival conditions, and the uncertainties with them, make it necessary to have separate articles. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 22:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::-1. As H says. A Manager is an appointed position that upgrades - the "nobility" are migrants, and as such work differently. Possibly in the future once concerns and unknowns are resolved. However, possibly a new article where they are comparable at a glance? (sim to [[other weapon]]?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== The Jobs ==

I did four of the required job sets, but the last one I finished wasn't completed until shortly after the caravan left, will I still get my baron, provided I meet the other requirements? Also, could the baron come in a wave after the caravan but before spring, or does he always wait until the new year? --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 20:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
:Honestly, don't know there at all.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I just received my first Baron, and I do not remember doing anything with gems. --[[Special:Contributions/173.73.81.248|173.73.81.248]] 23:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:You Only need to meet Some of the requirements when it comes to jobs done. Not all of them. So like Gems, Stone, Crafting, and food. Or some combination like that. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== List Formatting ==
I believe the list of requirements would be clearer/easier to read as a bulleted list. --[[User:Rwindmtg|Rwindmtg]] 22:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== when is this guy gonna show up? ==

I am all the way at population 110 exported wealth is ~24000 and I met the jobs prerequisit. Any Idea why this guy might not be showing up?--[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 21:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
:Usually (always) arrives with the next spring immigration. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I got to 140 people before then and I had my fortress upgraded to a duchy right away. I was so surprised, but the worst part was I had to go from little to no nobles to a TON of nobles. --[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 13:02, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== "Wealth" ==
There is a "verify" tag next to this enigmatic entry under "requirements", yet no sign of a discussion here. Is this "Created Wealth"? And if so, what is that requirement? Should make an effort toward deleting either the entry or the verify tag.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== "Activates Dwarven Economy" ==
There is (again) a "verify" tag next to this enigmatic entry under "requirements", yet no sign of a discussion here. What's the concern? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:Presumably, the confusion was whether the economy was activated by the Baron or the Tax Collector. An experiment in my current fortress may provide the answer: I had [ECONOMY:NO] when my Baron first arrived, and after turning it back on and killing the Tax Collector, his replacement didn't activate it - I've since killed my Duke and Duchess Consort (stupid [[anvil]] mandates, as well as excessive plate mail and high boots), so if the economy activates when they arrive, this one can be confirmed. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::You da man. ("Player mandates death of Tax Collector", in the name of dwarven science.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:::And it is confirmed - once "The Duke Cog Lisidèzum has arrived", the "Prices" and "Currency" screens have magically appeared in my Z-Status screen. Unfortunately, said replacements have equally annoying preferences - the new Duke likes pig iron, green glass, bolts, and shields, and the Duchess Consort likes bismuth bronze, plate mail, barrels, and bracelets, so it's into the suicide booth with both of them. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Oh dear, it seems that somebody ''accidentally'' pulled the lever that retracts the bridge across my moat (read: magma pipe) just as the newly arrived Duke and Duchess Consort were walking across it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
::And there was great rejoicing. (yay! yay! yay!). Just to be clear (and so I'm not posting mere fluff), that didn't turn back off the economy, right? Once on, always on, neh? (And can we lose the "Wealth" requirement???)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Once the economy is on, it can never be turned off. I'm pretty sure that's been common knowledge for quite some time. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:54, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Baron

2009-11-13T01:11:05Z

Shardok: /* The Jobs */

==(preliminary requirements discussion)==
I've had a Baron (and Hammerer and Tax Collector) arrive when my population was exactly 80 and when my population was capped in the init.txt file at 80. I'm confident that the requirement of 100 people is wrong. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Likewise, my current fortress has 134 people and 1.5M in created wealth, but no baron. I'm reasonably certain this must be some sort of weighted random arrival. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 18:22, 6 January 2008 (EST)

2.5 Millon wealth, 232 dwarfs, 4K exported wealth. Last year I did all the jobs required, certain of that. I can only think its my exported wealth. I'm guna try raising it to just over 10K, do the jobs again and wait. Think this should be added to the wiki page, give a rough estimate of the number if i do get a migrant baron next year. (My populatin cap is 400 at the moment)--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 16:16, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Oops, I killed the consort ==

The consort was making mandates I could not satisfy, so he had to go. This has caused some kind of problem though... my fortress will not upgrade to a county so I can get the king. I am considering killing my baroness as well, and attempting to reset the whole situation. Any suggestions? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:Kiilll them! Kiiilll them! Kiiilllll them alllll! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:52, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hammerer and tax collector ==

Do the hammerer and tax collector always arrive along with the Baron? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:26, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I Don't think that its Always the case but it seems to frequently be the case for me; all of my forts that I allow nobles they tend to show up together. --Silver
:I suspect that some are prerequisite for the others, i.e. would a baron ever show up at a fort that didn't have a tax collector? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:38, 23 December 2008 (EST)

They do come at the same time. Heck, my baron appeared first, even. But no, I think that the article has it correct.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 19:47, 24 December 2008 (EST)
==Peasant King==

I got the [[King]] as a peasant due to discovering [[Adamantine]]. I don't appear to be getting a Baron, tax collector, hammerer or a royal guard. Is this a bug? -[[User:Rushyo|Rushyo]] 21:54, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:The peasant king happens independently of other nobles in my experience. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Minimum Exported Wealth? ==

Im pretty sure there's gotta be a Minimum exported wealth for the baron to arrive, I satisfy all the other conditions, and have over 1.6 million created wealth, 163 dwarves, and my dwarves do well over the job requirements. However, I as of now, only have 30426 Exported wealth. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 16:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Duke arrived at 32435 exported wealth. No baron yet. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 00:37, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

:That's because the Duke is an 'upgraded' version of the count, which is an 'upgraded' version of the baron. Once you have a Duke, you won't ever get a Baron. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 17:31, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

::Once my exported wealth topped 10k I got the Baroness the next migrant season. I was down at 8k exported for about 3 years and had at least that many migrant waves without a baron during the same time. 17th of Slate in the year 308, population 139 (not counting the new tax collector thats just on the edge of the map), 1,912,970 created wealth, 235,635 imported, 11,558 exported. I've also traded with a group of Elves but they hadn't left the map by the time the migrants arrived and it only put my exported wealth to 11,958. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 11:38, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:::No disagreement since January - removing the "verify" tag from EW.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== share rooms? ==

does the baron and his consort share a room? or do I need to make an extra pair of tombs/dining rooms/bedrooms? --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 17:14, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:Yup, consorts demand all their own rooms, and neither will be happy if you try to cram them together. The only room that doesn't need to be doubled up is the office/throne room, since the Consort doesn't conduct diplomacy. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 21:41, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Incorrect Baron Prerequisites? ==

I just got a Baron, Tax Collector, and Hammerer and have never done a single metal crafting job. I did, however, Cage Trap a Titan in the previous month though. The quote from Toady One at the bottom of the Baron page would appear to be in error in this case. -- [[User:unseenmage|unseenmage]] 14 January 2009

:I think you are misunderstanding the quote. There are a variety of categories, and you must have done the required number of jobs for 4 of those categories. Nothing requires you to have specifically done metal crafting jobs (which would only count towards 'metal related' if you did do some). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:33, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Merging ==
I would like to suggest the merging of Baron, Count and Duke. Manager and his upgrades only use one page. Each is only a minor upgrade from another and has no vastly different requirements. It would make it easier to view them as they are all connected. Anyone agree/disagree?--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 06:38, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:Sounds good to me--[[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 10:48, 14 February 2009 (EST)
::strongly disagree - requirements and arrival conditions, and the uncertainties with them, make it necessary to have separate articles. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 22:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::-1. As H says. A Manager is an appointed position that upgrades - the "nobility" are migrants, and as such work differently. Possibly in the future once concerns and unknowns are resolved. However, possibly a new article where they are comparable at a glance? (sim to [[other weapon]]?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== The Jobs ==

I did four of the required job sets, but the last one I finished wasn't completed until shortly after the caravan left, will I still get my baron, provided I meet the other requirements? Also, could the baron come in a wave after the caravan but before spring, or does he always wait until the new year? --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 20:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
:Honestly, don't know there at all.

I just received my first Baron, and I do not remember doing anything with gems. --[[Special:Contributions/173.73.81.248|173.73.81.248]] 23:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:You Only need to meet Some of the requirements when it comes to jobs done. Not all of them. So like Gems, Stone, Crafting, and food. Or some combination like that. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== List Formatting ==
I believe the list of requirements would be clearer/easier to read as a bulleted list. --[[User:Rwindmtg|Rwindmtg]] 22:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== when is this guy gonna show up? ==

I am all the way at population 110 exported wealth is ~24000 and I met the jobs prerequisit. Any Idea why this guy might not be showing up?--[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 21:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
:Usually (always) arrives with the next spring immigration. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I got to 140 people before then and I had my fortress upgraded to a duchy right away. I was so surprised, but the worst part was I had to go from little to no nobles to a TON of nobles. --[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 13:02, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== "Wealth" ==
There is a "verify" tag next to this enigmatic entry under "requirements", yet no sign of a discussion here. Is this "Created Wealth"? And if so, what is that requirement? Should make an effort toward deleting either the entry or the verify tag.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== "Activates Dwarven Economy" ==
There is (again) a "verify" tag next to this enigmatic entry under "requirements", yet no sign of a discussion here. What's the concern? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:Presumably, the confusion was whether the economy was activated by the Baron or the Tax Collector. An experiment in my current fortress may provide the answer: I had [ECONOMY:NO] when my Baron first arrived, and after turning it back on and killing the Tax Collector, his replacement didn't activate it - I've since killed my Duke and Duchess Consort (stupid [[anvil]] mandates, as well as excessive plate mail and high boots), so if the economy activates when they arrive, this one can be confirmed. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::You da man. ("Player mandates death of Tax Collector", in the name of dwarven science.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:::And it is confirmed - once "The Duke Cog Lisidèzum has arrived", the "Prices" and "Currency" screens have magically appeared in my Z-Status screen. Unfortunately, said replacements have equally annoying preferences - the new Duke likes pig iron, green glass, bolts, and shields, and the Duchess Consort likes bismuth bronze, plate mail, barrels, and bracelets, so it's into the suicide booth with both of them. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Oh dear, it seems that somebody ''accidentally'' pulled the lever that retracts the bridge across my moat (read: magma pipe) just as the newly arrived Duke and Duchess Consort were walking across it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
::And there was great rejoicing. (yay! yay! yay!). Just to be clear (and so I'm not posting mere fluff), that didn't turn back off the economy, right? Once on, always on, neh? (And can we lose the "Wealth" requirement???)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Once the economy is on, it can never be turned off. I'm pretty sure that's been common knowledge for quite some time. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:54, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

40d:Stockpile

2009-11-07T05:27:31Z

Shardok: /* Uses for Custom Stockpiles */

'''Stockpiles''' are where [[dwarves]] will store items of various types. Dwarves with the corresponding "[[hauling]]" job on will seek out items that aren't already on a stockpile that accepts them and carry them to the appropriate stockpile. It's important to place your stockpiles carefully to minimize the amount of time spent carrying items to and from them. Items in a stockpile may be stored in [[bag]]s, [[barrel]]s or [[bin]]s (see [[Using bins and barrels]]).

== Allocating stockpiles ==

To allocate an area as a stockpile, use the {{key|p}} menu. The right-hand menu pane will list all the stockpile categories, and the appropriate key to press to begin allocating that type. Allocating an area works exactly the same as designating an area. Press {{k|Enter}} to specify the first corner of the stockpile, use the primary movement keys to move the cursor to the opposite corner, and press {{k|Enter}} again. This will create a stockpile of the chosen type that occupies the area between the two corners specified. If the chosen area has parts that cannot be made into a stockpile, like a [[wall]], a [[workshop]], or an already existing stockpile, a stockpile will be created but they will not be part of it.

Removing a stockpile works exactly the same, but choose {{key|x}}: Remove Designation. This will unallocate the area specified. It is possible to create a single stockpile with a shape other than a rectangle by using the Remove Designation tool to remove only part of the stockpile.

== Using stockpiles ==

Once a stockpile has been allocated, dwarves will automatically move items to the stockpile when they are available, and as long as the stockpile has available space. Note that the dwarves will place the item into the empty spot that is nearest to the item, ''not counting any obstructions''. Additional behaviour also includes the fact that dwarves will stockpile the ''newest'' item first, which may not necessarily be the nearest item to the stockpile.

When dwarves need an item for a particular task, they will head to the nearest (again, not counting any obstructions that may lie in the way) item of the correct type, regardless of whether it is in a stockpile or not. Apart from some exceptions, items do not have to be stockpiled at all. Players are generally advised to avoid stone stockpiles, because stone [[hauling]] jobs take an extreme amount of time for unskilled dwarves, due to the weight hauled.

One method to ensure a workshop has raw material on hand is to place a small stockpile next to the workshop. This will speed up production as the crafter in question only has to take a few steps to obtain the material. It also has a useful side-effect, in that as soon as the crafter picks up the piece of material, the stockpile will issue a new task to fetch another piece of that material. Because that crafter is busy, that hauling job will be taken by another [[dwarf]]. This speeds up a queue of jobs, as other dwarfs perform the time-consuming distant haul whilst the crafter actually makes the items.

It's not necessary to place stockpiles for all types of objects. If no storage is available for a certain item type, dwarves will seek out items wherever they might lie as mentioned earlier. This can be advantageous -- if you don't have a stockpile for [[gem]]s, your [[jeweler]] will go pick up fresh gems without waiting for them to be carried to a pile first. However, this also means your jeweler has to spend a lot of time fetching the gems. If you have enough haulers available, it's generally more advantageous to designate stockpiles than not. Also remember that your workshops will get [[clutter]]ed and suffer production slowdowns if you let items pile up in them, so it's important to regularly clear out workshops when they get cluttered. This can be done either by having a stockpile available so that haulers will remove the items or by removing and rebuilding the workshop, which will empty its contents onto the ground.

== Take from a stockpile ==

Another feature of stockpiles, currently in a limited form, allows you to tell dwarves to fill one stockpile not only with unstockpiled items, but also those located on another stockpile that accepts those items. To specify such a flow, use the {{key|q}} menu, and highlight the ''destination'' stockpile. Press {{key|t}}, and, using the cursor, highlight another stockpile and press [Enter]. Your chosen stockpile will now list the stockpile it will take from. This will cause items in the second stockpile to be hauled to the first stockpile. To stop first stockpile taking items from second use {{K|q}} menu on first, higlight the unneeded stockpile in the list using {{K|+}} and {{K|-}} and press {{K|d}}'''elete Selected'''

Each stockpile can can take from any number of other stockpiles, but can only have one stockpile taking from it in turn. This limit applies even if the two stockpiles you want it to feed into don't share a single material that can be stored in both of them. Additionally, you can't make two stockpiles feed into each other, although larger loops (e.g. 3 stockpiles that feed into each other in a circle) are allowed.

However, despite these limitations, enough micromanagement will allow for effective and (relatively) streamlined supply chains. For example, you can speed up [[wood cutting|lumber harvesting]], [[carpentry]], ''and'' [[ash]] and [[charcoal]] production by putting several wood stockpiles near the various [[Chop_down_trees|tree-felling areas]], then one large "primary" stockpile near the [[carpenter's workshop]] that takes from those small ones, and then finally, a small stockpile near the [[wood furnace]] that takes from the primary one.

== Stockpile categories ==

===[[Ammo]]===
This stockpile contains ammo for all forms of ammunition-requiring weaponry (except siege engines). It can use [[bin]]s to consolidate up to 100 units of ammo.

===[[Animal]]===
[[Animals]] stored in [[cage]]s that are not affixed to a location will be stored in these stockpiles. [[Animal Trap|Trap]]s used for capturing wild animals and empty [[cage]]s are also stored here.

===[[Armor]]===
Armor of all types is stored here. This kind of stockpile can use bins to consolidate up to 10 items. There is no preference for specific body parts. All types of armor can be stored in [[bin]]s.

===[[Bar]]/[[Block]]===
Bars of smelted [[metal]] and blocks of cut stone and [[glass]] are kept here after being processed by the [[smelter]], [[mason's workshop]]s, and [[glass furnace]]s, before being used for other purposes. Weirdly, [[ash]]es, [[potash]], [[soap]], [[charcoal]], and [[coke]] from the [[wood furnace]], [[ashery]], [[alchemist's laboratory]] and smelter will also be stored here. Like with all stockpiles, this can be changed to allow for specific blocks and bars to be stored with custom settings. [[Bin]]s can be used to consolidate up to 10 bars and blocks.

===[[Cloth]]===
Woven cloth and [[thread]] from the [[loom]] is stored here. [[Bin]]s can be used to consolidate up to 10 items.

===[[Coins]]===
Minted coins are kept here. Bins can be used to consolidate up to 3000 coins, which is equivalent to six new coins stacks.

===[[Finished Goods]]===
Finished goods created by the [[craftsdwarf's workshop]], as well as the [[clothier's shop]] and the [[leather works]], are placed here before being used in trade or other uses. This type of stockpile can use [[bin]]s to consolidate up to 25 items.

=== [[Food]] ===

As one would assume based on the name, food is stored here. Unexpectedly, [[lye]], [[giant desert scorpion]] venom, bags of [[dye]], and [[Fire snake|liquid fire]] are as well. Raw [[fish]] is brought here before being processed by [[fishery]] and turned into edible [[meat]]. Drinks are always stored in [[barrel]]s. Seeds can be stored in [[bag]]s, whereas other food items can be stored in [[barrel]]s (up to 10 items per barrel, but note that
the stack +Cow meat roast [8]+ would count as eight items.)

Note that [[prepared meal]]s in stacks larger than ten (☼Dwarven Beer Roast [200]☼ is possible) will not fit in a barrel, but will not rot once placed in a food stockpile, and still only take up one space. To free up barrels, you may decide to have separate prepared food stockpiles that do not accept barrels. If you cook larger meals, this shouldn't be a problem.

Food stockpiles should in most cases be specified as things like [[seed]] stockpiles or meat stockpiles or unprepared fish stockpiles; there are simply too many things that go in them.

===[[Furniture]] Storage===
Completed items from the [[carpenter's workshop]], mason's workshop, and [[mechanic's workshop]] will be stored here, along with furniture created from other shops, until placed or used in another building. Bags filled with [[sand]] can also be stored in furniture stockpiles.

Since this is a very broad category, it may be useful to create stockpiles for a specific type of item (like barrels, bags, bins, mechanisms) via the stockpile settings.

===[[Gem]]===
This stockpile stores gems and raw [[glass]], both cut and uncut, before being used in a construction. It can use [[bin]]s to consolidate up to 10 gems.

===[[Graveyard]]===
Dead dwarves and [[pet]]s that have no burial location will be placed here. If placed indoors, decaying bodies will generate [[miasma]], but [[bone]]s will not removed at the end of the season. Rotting [[pets]] or [[friends]] gives dwarves unhappy [[thoughts]] unless they are given a proper burial in a [[tomb]]. 
Are dwarf and pet bones removed at the end of the season ever? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] Yes, if they are outside. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

===[[Leather]]===
Leather, which is produced at a [[Tanner's shop]], will be kept here. Like most stockpiles, it can use [[bin]]s to consolidate up to 10 items.

===[[refuse stockpile|Refuse]]===
Since dwarves hate rot because of the miasma it spreads when in an enclosed place like a [[cave]], any garbage item that can rot will be stored in a refuse stockpile. Many players prefer to place this stockpile outside their cavern, usually a small distance from the entrance. If placed indoors, decaying items will generate miasma, which will spread through your fortress and generate a small unhappy thought in any dwarf passing through it. For this reason it is sensible to build [[door]]s to all of your indoor refuse stockpiles - the miasma won't spread through a closed door so only dwarves with business in the room will be bothered by the rot. An alternative to this is to dig [[channel]]s down from the surface, creating an outside area inside your fortress. You can place your refuse stockpile here and whilst it will be in your fort it will technically be outside and won't generate miasma.

Bones, [[skulls]], and [[shell]]s are also stored here, whether they be from defeated enemies or raw food processing. If left outdoors, these will randomly disappear, but will remain indefinitely if stored indoors, so you may wish to make an indoor refuse stockpile that takes bones from the outdoor stockpile.

Note that a refuse stockpile is not the same as a [[Activity_zone#Garbage_Dump|garbage dump]]. A garbage dump is only for things manually marked to be dumped. Additionally, refuse types specifically marked as '''Dwarves Dump '''''refuse type'' in {{k|o}}-{{k|r}} will be hauled to the garbage dump instead of the refuse stockpile.

===[[Stone]]===
Rough stone will be stored here, as well as [[ore]]. Given the extreme abundance of stone, it is very likely for this stockpile to fill up quickly, making stone stockpiles largely ineffective for [[Stone_management|dealing with excess stone]]. Probably the best use of stone stockpiles is to make sure that workshops and smelters, catapults, and impending construction projects have their materials close at hand. Be aware that these things can use up a lot of stone very quickly, leading to your dwarves scurrying around the fortress trying to keep up. To avoid stone hauling when you don't want it, you can slow down or stop the nearby usage, allowing the stockpile to fill back up (and thus no longer need more stone), or you can set the dwarves to ignore minerals in {{key|o}}rders and options.

===[[Weapon]]s===
Weapons of all types are stored here by default, including the weapons that dwarves do not use and trap components. [[Bin]]s can be used to consolidate up to 10 weapons of any type.

===[[Wood]]===
Chopped trees are brought to the wood stockpile before being used by the carpenter's, woodburner's or siege workshop. Because wood takes a long time to haul and tends to travel a long way, the stockpile should be rather close to a fortress entrance (which does not necessarily mean on the upper z-levels - moving down one z-level is only one tile), unless you have an [[Tower-cap|underground tree farm]]. It is a good idea to position this stockpile close to your carpenter's workshop (or the other way round) since he is likely to be the main "customer".

=== Custom stockpiles ===

With custom stockpiles you can change which types of materials, goods, etc, can be stored in that pile. Any types of things can be mixed, so you could have a stockpile that will hold raw [[turtle]], [[mechanism]]s and all stone types apart from [[onyx]] if you wanted, or only high-quality steel crossbow bolts (Ammo), all quivers (a Finished Good), and metal Crossbows (a Weapon) - the combinations are endless, and can be finely tuned. Highlighting a stockpile with {{key|q}}, then pressing {{key|s}} will allow you to adjust the stockpile settings or in the {{key|p}} menu you can press {{key|t}} to adjust a custom stockpiles settings before placing it with {{key|c}}. Note that many sub-menus consist of several pages ( the 'other' menu of stone e.g. consists of several pages while 'metal [[ore]]s' and 'economic' consist of only one ).

Note that using {{key|q}} also allows you to adjust the number of bins or barrels that a stockpile will use. By default, if the item can be stored, it will try to fill the entire stockpile with that type of container. This can be troublesome, especially early in the game when you don't have nearly enough to go around.

== Stockpile Settings ==
The '''Stockpile Settings''' screen is weird to use. In the first column are the major categories. In the second column there may or may not be subcategories. In the third you will see the individual items. The second and third columns are only visible when a category is enabled and selected.

You navigate this screen with {{key|+}} and {{key|-}}, and left and right on the arrow keys. {{key|e}} and {{key|d}} are used to enable and disable the categories. {{key|a}} and {{key|b}} are used to allow or disallow all the subcategories. {{key|p}} and {{key|f}} will permit of forbid individual subcategories. These six keys work no matter which column you have selected, though the last 4 will not always be available. {{key|Enter}} will toggle individual item types.

== Notes ==
Some categories will have a special extra type of item(s) that can be toggled with {{key|u}} and sometimes {{key|j}}.

{| border="1" cellpadding="4"
|+
! Categories
! Item type
|-
| Animals
| Empty cages and Empty animal traps
|-
| Food
| Prepared food
|-
| Furniture
| Sand bag
|-
| Weapons
| usable and unusable
|-
| Armor
| usable and unusable
|}

If you disable an item or items that are already sitting in a stockpile then they become loose items and your dwarves will move them to a more suitable stockpile should one exist.

== Uses for Custom Stockpiles ==

A custom stockpile is most useful for food, furniture, and bar/block stockpiles, to prevent your lye and venom sitting next to the [[kitchen]]s, your [[floodgate]]s and mechanisms near the [[room]]s that need [[statue]]s and doors, your stone blocks next to the forges, and your metal bars by the farms.

One use for this is to have an outdoor stockpile next to your gate that will accept all refuse except bones, shells, skins and skulls, and then an indoor pile near your craftsdwarf's workshop that will '''only''' accept these things. If you have set the option for dwarves to gather refuse from outside, the bones will be brought in once all the meat has rotted off of any carcasses outside. This means added risk to your dwarves if they try to gather refuse that is far from your gate, and additional hauling.

Another effective use of custom stockpiles is Elven trading. Make a stockpile just for elf-safe trade goods: most categories where it's relevant have a 'materials' option.

A highly efficient method is to have wood burning furnaces feeding into a '[[charcoal]] only' bar/blocks stockpile, which in turn is near the smelting furnaces and forges. Bonus points if you also place a small wood stockpile near the wood furnaces.

Other good uses:
* Planter's stock: [[seed]]s and [[potash]]. (If your [[ashery]] is nearby, include ashes and lye.
* Smelter stock: [[ore]]s and [[flux]].
* Sandpile: [[sand]] bags.
* Clothes Plus: a cloth stockpile that also includes [[dye]]s. (Dyes normally count as food.)
* Food Plus: a food stockpile that includes barrels. This spares your dwarves from carrying empty barrels to and from the furniture stores.
* Skins: a refuse stockpile limited to [[skin]]s, a bit like the bone & shell stockpile above. Place near the tannery.
* Brewer's stock: [[List of crops|brewable plants]].
* Refreshment stand: Since dwarves drink twice as often as they eat, having several small food stockpiles that only accept [[drink]]s scattered strategically through your fort can minimise [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoko smoko breaks]. The usefullness of this kind of stockpile is often disputed as dwarves go to the fullest barrel first, so if you can't keep your stockpile constantly filled with new full barrels of alcohol your masons might decide to run all the way over to the alcohol stockpile you have setup for your brewers or your metalsmiths. If you can keep each stockpile constantly being filled with fresh supplies of full barrels of alcohol then this can increase productivity greatly. A simple way of doing this is by keeping a brewery near each separate alcohol stockpile.
* Artifact materials: The massive value and effectiveness of [[artifacts]] means the materials used in them can have drastic effects, sometimes even into the ''[[Value|millions]]''. Having special stockpiles for high-value metals, stones, gems, and other such materials will make it that much easier to insure that you will get the most out of each [[strange mood]]. (However, even with materials-specific stockpiles, it can take a fair amount of micromanagement to get a moody dwarf to use a specific material.)
* Ingredients: Store things that are cookable but not edible, like milk and quarry bush leaves, near kitchens. For that matter, store both fat and tallow near kitchens for efficient rendering.
* Mason's Stone: Since a mason's workshop doesn't let you pick what type of stone to use, use customized stone stockpiles to provide some of that control. On maps with mass [[flux]] stone, a small stockpile for flux stone near masons' workshops can boost the values of stone furniture in general.

[[Category:Stockpiles]]
[[Category:Items]]

40d Talk:Stockpile

2009-11-07T05:24:42Z

Shardok: /* Refreshment Stand */

=== Stockpile categories ===
'''[[Ore]]''' 
Ore will be brought here. This is one of the simpler stockpiles.
: Is it just me, or is this incorrect? I don't see an option in the new version for ore piles. I'm at work and so cannot double-check at this time, but I'll check when I get home and if I confirm it then, I'll remove Ore from the Stockpile categories.

You're correct. Ore is now included in the stone stockpile and there is no mining stockpile. I've made the change. -Valdemar

Should this page be retitled "Stockpile" to keep in line with the title style rules? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

==Custom Catastrophe==

According to the forums, and my own experiences, the "Custom" category doesn't actually work. Removing the unused stockpile and replacing it with one of the standard type, then editing it to your specifications will work. Also types can be safely changed after they're assigned. (I turned a wood stockpile to a bed stockpile with successful stocking).
I came across this after a great deal of kitchen rebuilding because my cook wouldn't fill the stockpiles. If someone more familiar with the wiki, and the game, could confirm this and edit the page it would be appreciated, it's something that should be out there. [[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

: I have not had this problem, although I do need to be careful making sure that I actually adjust the cus{{k|t}}om stockpile settings before placing the stockpile, and then being sure that I'm still placing a custom stockpile. This menu is one of the least-intuitive to my mind, but the settings work, AFAIK. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:48, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:Custom stockpiles work perfectly for me, and have for a logn time. Maybe the original poster overlooked the "prepared food" option under the food submenu?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:53, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::probably as simple as not allowing the 'material'/'core quality'/'total quality' options to be on. maybe even the 'metals' one if you want a metal-stuff stockpile. i've had lots of trouble with it, too x] usually done by {{k|b}}locking all, and just selecting the item on it's own. everything has to be made out of something! --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:01, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::::For me, dwarves ignore custom stockpiles as long as there is an unfilled existing stockpile that accepts whatever the custom stockpile accepts. Once that stockpile fills (and the dwarves are forced to begin using the custom pile) the custom stockpile is used normally--even if the other stockpile empties.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'm having a similar problem. Whenever I have two stockpiles of the same type but different things accepted (like two refuse piles where one accepts only bones, shells, and skulls and the other accepts all except those), only one gets used. Individually, either one will get them correctly, but when I have both, one gets ignored. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding custom stockpiles: I'm pretty sure that setting one up using the custom menu is 100% identical to setting up a standard one and then editing it. Caveats: You're more likely to mess up the selection when using custom (because it remembers your prior one), whereas you're more likely to mess up the barrels / bins settings when editing an existing one (because those are only set at creation time).

:Remember also that items must match ALL filters. That means you must allow some or all "metals" / "materials" selections; some or all "core quality" and "total quality" modifiers; "usable" and/or "unusable" for weapons/armour; etc. Selecting "weapons, bolts, steel, masterful, usable" will get you '''only''' masterful steel bolts, and that's also the '''minimum''' needed to get them. Even something as broad as "weapons, bolts, all materials/metals, all qualities" will get you exactly nothing if you accidentally uncheck "usable".

:Also, remember that dwarves may not move items in barrels/bins between stockpiles unless the new stockpile also accepts barrels/bins. To truly unbarrel / unbin stuff, you may have to dump it and reclaim it.

:Regarding the scenario of a more selective stockpile accepting a subset of what a broader stockpile accepts: This will typically not work unless you use "take from stockpile" (from broad to selective) or simply turn off some stuff in the broader one so there's no longer an overlap. There is no rule that says "put items in the most specific stockpile".

:Regarding not being able to use multiple refuse piles: Remember that dwarves will not collect outdoor refuse unless you enable it. That means you cannot create a stockpile for corpses / bodyparts (not bones) outdoors, and a stockpile for bones (not corpses) indoors, and expect your dwarves to take the bones indoors once the corpses rot away. You must use {{k|o}}-{{k|r}}-{{k|o}} to enable outdoor refuse collection.

:Hope these help. Maybe they should be in the article, dunno. I've never seen any of the problems mentioned in this section, and I use custom stockpiles a lot. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 03:14, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::I think some of it may also be in the way dwarfs decide what to do where first. In mining, they'll gravitate toward the top left every time. Set up a huge stockpile, maybe 20x20, and they'll fill the top row from the left first, then go to the second row, walking over the closer ones to get to that top row. It's possible that stockpiles are being treated the same, or something parallel. If you have your custom piles draw from the generic ones, that might solve it, if after a wasted task to put the items in the generic stockpile the first time. But either way, bottom line is: if you want a custom stockpile with X in it, your generic stockpiles have to be tweaked to NOT accept X.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Bins ==

how do I make my bins get to the "right" stockpiles (ie i want to put stone in bins to compact it but so far my bin is sitting in a "finished goods" stockpile)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Raw objects generally can't be put in bins, only "processed" goods. For instance, [[block]]s can be put in bins, but not raw stone. The best way to get a compact stone store is to create a dump, though I haven't fiddled with that technique yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::Stone designated for dumping (individually which is a pain no matter how you do it) can all end up on a single dump activity zone and then reclaimed, this is much more space-efficient than stone stockpiles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:42, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:::You can now mass designate items for dumping by selecting large amounts of stone, or any other object, really. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:46, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Is my problem similar to what you mean, GarrieIrons? I have a clothing/leather stockpile that is filled to the brink with individual items. I want to put them in bins so that I can have more room (as there are more items to be stored) but whenever I find a way to make room in the stockpile, more non-bin items are added until it is full again. On top of that, there is already one bin on the stockpile and no one will store anything in it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 21:30, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::i had the same problem, and was just about to post it, then found an answer! :D set your stockpile to accept bins/barrels/whatever (mine's a stone block stockpile way outside of my fort, from which the peasants were carting one block at a time into a free bin. now it's a bin and block stockpile (Note: DO NOT TURN OFF 'core quality', 'total quality' etc. if you do, NO bins/barrels will be accepted)), press {{k|q}}uery(?) over the stockpile, then press {{k|t}}ake from a pile. go to your finished goods stockpile (the one containing the bins/barrels), and hit {{k|Enter}}. your peasants will immediately start running over to it with bins/barrels. sorted :D note: they'll take all your bins over! remember to {{k|q}} over your new stockpile, and set the maximum amount of bins/barrels with {{k|c}} (more) and {{k|v}} (fewer). mine's set to 10. thinking about it... you may just be able to set your finished goods stockpile max to 10 bins/barrels, and any others will be taken somewhere else (probably not a good thing; they may get left clogging up your workspace) --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 12:45, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Usable/Unusable Weapons/Armour? ==

Anyone knows exactly what this does? It seems that stockpiles set to "unusable" will only collect things that dwarfs can't possibly ever use, not even in Adventure mode (ex: big human two-handed weapons such as a halberd), but while technically things like whips and scimitars aren't unusable, dwarfs in Fortress mode will never equip them - no such option in the Military screen. Or will they use, for example, a scimitar if set to use swords? Will that use the Swordsdwarf skill? IMO it would be more useful if it included any weapon not in the Military screen. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:44, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:I use this when I kill kobolds etc - all the weapons my dwarf collect of '''hostile''' creatures then go into the same bin. I can't use them, but I ''can'' drag one bin all at once to the visiting [[trading|merchant]] - ker-ching! They sell pretty well.
:But I agree, it should be that any weapon dwarves cannot use should end up there.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== my dear cook ==

preparing food stacks larger than *ten* - on what depends the number? my cook sometimes does it, sometimes not, both with lavish and simple meals. Is it from the stack size? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:36, 14 February 2008 (EST)

:The biggest question here though is - what is the appropriate setting for a stockpile for cooked food?
:It seems to be, "forbid" everything but make sure "Prepared food" is turned on. But "prepared food" seems to be turned on as the default, and it allows even unprocessed fish etc to be placed in the stockpile. So this doesn't make much sense to me.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:40, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: well, you could use a refuse pile with only prepared meals enabled...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:39, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:: to be more precise, a custom stockpile (t) with only prepared meals enabled under 'Refuse' - works and is not even called a refuse pile. Havent seen someone eat from it yet though.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:03, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:I think in general, the number of prepared meals in the stack is based on the number of ingredients used. The biggest stacks of ingredients are generally quarry bush leaves, but depending on the animal, stacks of tallow can equal or exceed them. I have mini-stockpiles for quarry bush leaves and tallow adjacent to my kitchen, and if a stack smaller than 20 gets made, it generally means those mini-stockpiles are out. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone Stockpiles ==

Currently my dwarves are not hauling ores of iron, zinc and lignite which I have disabled for my other stone stockpiles. I have over 8000 stone in somewhat organized stockpiles since I thought my wealth would generate more slowly with everyone hauling them all around the map with the more common stones, siltstone and phyllite, creating common crafts, statues, hatch covers, flood gates, mechanisms and use in stone fall traps. I now have over 333 stockpiles. I went and mined all ores used in creating fuels and metals and it seems that the storage space I've made might not be that big enough. What's the problem?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just got it, I had ignore minerals. Sorry.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== Take From Stockpile ==

While we're adding information to this section, Can someone who has used this successfully give a more concrete example? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, I gave it a shot --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:27, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Clear stone to replace with stockpile? ==

Is there any way to clear the stone out of the way so I can build a stock pile for something that ISN'T stone? Got a nice big room full of workshops and nowhere to put anything because 90% of the spots are filled with stones.

(Is it just me, or do the dwarves sometimes seem ''really'' dumb? I set up a paved road of about 10 sections from the top exit of the fortress to the edge of the map for caravans. I set up stone stockpiles next to every other segment of the road both so they didn't have to walk so far to do it and to clear some of the stone out... They started at the farthest away road segment, and will go all the way to the other end of the road, down three flights of stairs, all the way to an otherwise empty room to pick up a piece of stone to go all the way back to use it on the road, rather than use the nearby and completely full stockpiles. ) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:[[Stone management]]. As for the road, when constructing a building, it shows you how distant the materials are, but only "as the crow flies". If the nearest stone is one z-level away and you unwittingly select it, they'll walk however long a path they have to actually fetch it. Same thing for workshops -- they'll go huge distances to get the item that's just above their heads.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::That may explain it... I set up the stockpiles after designating the road, so (after everyone dropped everything to fill the stockpiles), they went to the stone that I apparently designated when I set up the road. Would be nice if you could just tell them 'take THIS item and put it THERE'... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 21:16, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::[[Dump]]ing more or less allows you to do that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::::Seems less than more. :-p I've got a leftover iron knife sitting on the remains of a two dimensional goblin in a stonefall trap... I set everything to dump, and they took everything but his body and his knife. (I sold all his crap to the elves that showed up shortly thereafter). I ended up going with the catapult version...had a peasant build three catapult parts then set it up and toss rocks across the room into a channel... he's now a siege engineer. So I had him build another and started another peasant on it, and they're happily banging away at the wall... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

==Armor bin capacity==

I have a bin in my armor stockpile that has 17 items in it, so unless something really weird is going on the statement in the article that bins in armor stockpiles can consolidate up to 10 items is probably false. Anyone know what the truth is? [[User:MJSS|MJSS]] 20:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:It depends on the size of the items. An armor bin can hold a lot more boots and gauntlets than it can suits of platemail. It was speculated that 10 is the minimum number of goods a bin can hold, although I think platemail bins don't even hold that many. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::I've long been curious about what the formula is for bin capacity. A question for the future, I guess.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Crafts fit in bins in especially large numbers; perhaps based on the "material size" of the item, with some default applying to things with no explicit material size? There's also the matter of bags of seeds. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Core Quality vs Total Quality ==

What's the difference? Does core quality refer to the quality of the item while total quality somehow takes into account its decorations? If I have a standard quality sword menacing with masterwork spikes of bone, what total quality is that? [[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 17:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, and I have no idea. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:The formula is unknown. We wish we knew.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:07, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Putting things in bins higher priority than Take From Stockpile? ==

In most cases, ''Take From Stockpile'' works fine; however, I seem to have a situation where it does not. Stockpile A is set to accept only skull totems, zero bin maximum, and take from Stockpile B which is set to accept finished goods (incl. skull totems) and has a non-zero bin maximum. However, I find my dwarfs are moving items from A to B, when they should be moving totems from B to A.

I've only had this problem with skull totems, but I don't think it has to do with the totems themselves, but rather because this is the only time I've been attempting to move items from a stockpile that uses bins to one that does not. Has anyone else seen this? I need to do some testing, but I think the desire to put things in bins on stockpiles overrides the desire to take things from one stockpile to another. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 18:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could edit the priority of putting items in a bin, over just sitting on the ground. I think default is like 120 or something.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:P.S. It's in the init.

:Might I ask why you're allowing totems in Stockpile B at all? Seems like an easy way to do it would be to simply have the totems only end up in Pile A. I usually only use "Take from" when preparing to relocate my primary stockpile for an item elsewhere. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Trampling of food? ==

Is it just my imagination, or was there once an issue (feature) whereby unbarrelled food, particularly prepared meals, would degrade over time due to trampling by dwarves going to get food? I can't find mention of it anywhere, but I've been designing trample-proof piles with diagonal "checkerboard" access for a long time now, and I'm wondering if it's still (or was ever) necessary. Maybe someone confused the vermin issue with trampling? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think I've found a reference to it, in the [[Wear]] article. "Wear can be caused by heavy traffic over the location an item is stored." But my questions still stand re: whether this still/ever applied to food, whether barrels make them immune or just help, etc. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't believe it matters. If you read that article, you know that [[wear]] is a sort of lowering of quality. And you ''should'' know that raw foodstuffs have no quality - if you don't, they don't. (And that article specifically states that [[Kitchen#Prepared meals|prepared food]]s are not subject to wear.) Putting these together, we get - it doesn't matter. I don't believe they do, but ~if~ the plump helmets or jaguar meat were to get worn out - they're still plump helmets or meat, and still just as edible and quality-less as before. (As to the question of where you might have gotten this idea, I got nuthin'.) I think the important phrase is ''"I can't find mention of it anywhere"''. If wear effects food, I have seen no report of it either, anywhere.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I suspect it was a rumour someone started a while back as an explanation for why their food was getting damaged, when in fact it was vermin doing it. At least now I can stop making wacky stockpiles for unbarrelled food. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Moving only items that are in a bin ==

This is mainly aimed at efficiently moving items to be near the Trade Depot.

What I want to do is designate a mixed stockpile but then say "only bring full bins to this stockpile".

Then I can have stockpiles near each workshop, when a bin is full a hauler comes and does the right thing for me.

It all sounds so easy and logical! Now, is there an easy way to do it? What I am noticing is, if I have

workshop -> stockpile A -> stockpile B -> trade depot

when I put "stockpile B" on "max bins: all squares", then my haulers never bother stopping at Stockpile A with inidividual items they just go

workshop -> haul item -> stockpile B.

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

== where does bodywear go? ==

I have two stockpiles set up near my trade depot, one for (unuseable) armor, and one for finished goods (all except quivers and backpacks). My dwarves move all goblin- and kobold-dropped stuff there... except for the bodywear. tunics, robes, coats all litter the landscape still. So is there a way to set a stockpile to accept <narrow giant cave spider silk robe>s?

--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 09:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

any armor goes into armor, any clothes into finished goods - your setup should work. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
: (Necroposting FTW) Turn on "claim other death items" (o->F->t). Clothes are personal possessions and so are ignored until the owner dies and the haulers are given permission to move them. ~ [[User:Eidako|Eidako]] 01:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

== Refreshment Stand ==
<blockquote>
Refreshment stand: Since dwarves drink twice as often as they eat, having several small food stockpiles that only accept drinks scattered strategically through your fort can minimise smoko breaks. '''Usefulness: Zero; dwarves will go for the (newest) brew of their preference and conveniently ignore your custom stockpiles 99% of the time. Instead you cause more hauling.'''
</blockquote>

Can someone verify this new information added (in bold)? I see my own refreshment stands get used a fair bit. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 00:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
:Dwarves, according to the the articles on alcohol, go for the Fullest barrel first. Not the newest. So, they would go for your custom stockpiles just fine, so long as they were full. There is also some extent to which they go for what they like first. So I can see where the editor could of got that belief. But it's not entirely true. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 05:24, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

40d:How do I increase the value of a room

2009-11-07T00:47:36Z

Shardok: /* Cages */

[[Category:Stub]]

=Wall and Floor quality=

==Material==
Digging a room within a layer consisting of [[obsidian]] or [[flux]] will inherently give it a higher value than a room built inside a mundane stone such as granite or gabbro. Additionally, veins or clusters of precious minerals (whether [[ore]]s or [[gem]]s) which pass through the room can provide a dramatic boost in value.

==Engraving==
[[Room quality]] can be increased by [[smooth|smoothing]] and [[engrave|engraving]] the walls and the [[floor]].
Stone can be smoothed by any skilled dwarf without decreasing quality, but always engrave with more skillful Dwarves as unskilled Dwarves will permanently prevent you from putting a nice engraving there.

==Construction==
Constructing floors in a room using high-value building components (such as [[aluminum]] or [[platinum]] bars, or perhaps [[soap]] made from [[megabeast]] fat) can dramatically increase the value of a room if its location is important but valuable stones do not occur in the region. Note that constructed floors cannot be engraved, and constructing a floor on top of an existing engraving will destroy the engraving, resulting in the usual consequences of [[engraving#Art defacement|art defacement]].

=Furniture=
Any [[Furniture]] (such as [[statues]], [[chests]], [[cabinets]] or anything listed below) will increase room value. If made out of a material that the dwarf who owns the room likes, they will perceive the room as more valuable than its listed value, and be [[thought|happier]] for it. For instance, if a dwarf likes [[copper]] and/or [[armor stand]]s and you put a +copper armorstand+ in the room, she may view that as a *copper armorstand*. Whether this would be better than a +gold armorstand+, which would simply hammer room value without the increased perception, is in doubt. Dwarves that do not have such preferences perceive the room at its base value.

==Lever==
[[Lever]]s count as furniture for the purpose of increasing room value, and an unlimited number of mechanisms can be connected to a lever simply by linking it to an object and subsequently deconstructing said object (either directly, or by simply pulling the lever if the object is a [[cage]], [[restraint]], or [[support]]).

==Trap==
Weapons not being used by your dwarves (whether due to your military structure or due to the weapon being inherently unusable) can be placed in weapon traps, and traps located in a room will increase the value of the room by the value of all components. A trap containing an artifact weapon can easily max out a room's quality. This works for both conventional weapon traps and upright spears. As an added bonus, a strategically placed menacing spike in an annoying [[Noble]]'s room can also be employed for the purpose of arranging an [[unfortunate accident]].

==Cages==
[[Cages]] add the value of the animals occupying them to the room value, and you can store unlimited amounts of animals in one cage.

==Roads==
You can set a road to be built at maximum size and therefore use the maximum amount of building material (26 items), and still fit it on a single tile so long as all of the other tiles it would be built on are walls or empty space. This means you can have 26 pieces of aluminum or megabeast tallow soap adding value to a room with little effort.

==Other items==
[[Coffins]] not set to burial are not considered rooms and so can be built in other rooms without decreasing that room's value. This takes up space, but you do have to put the coffins somewhere anyways. You might as well get value from them.

==Artifacts==
Most artifacts will boost a room to 'royal'. Furniture artifacts can be built directly, weapons can be put in weapon traps, and buckets can be put in wells.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d Talk:Trading

2009-11-05T10:38:03Z

Shardok: /* Merchant moods */

{{Archive|
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.
}}

== Dead Wagons on Depot Deconstruct Exploit ==

You can take every item from a caravan by deconstructing a depot while the caravan is in it. The items aren't marked as stolen if you do this. But in the units screen, any wagons that were in the depot will appear as deceased. It's because the trader's wagon is a creature. Specifically, it's the center tile of the wagon. That's why the Depot Access view only shows where the center tile of the "wagon" can get to. I'd kind of like to point this out here, or perhaps on the page specifically about wagons, to identify the difference between the trade wagons and your starting wagon, which is a building.

Also, Dwarves still won't siege you, and this particular exploit can make the game ridiculously easy if you only deconstruct on the Dwarven caravan.--Kydo 02:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

:That exploit is already discussed in this article. And the distinction between embark wagons and trade wagons has (also) already been made clear on the [[wagon]] page (which the key word most users would Search for, I'd think - and where I'd think we should be having this discussion?) If you want to put a footnote in that article, so long as it isn't adding more confusion than clarification (that is, it doesn't devolve into pointless detail and supposition), more info can't be a bad thing.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:03, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

::Well, the wagon article seems to focus almost exclusively with the starting wagon, and only mentions the trade wagons once. In fact, reading over it again, it only mentions trade ''caravans''. Nothing about the wagons therein, or the distinction. Still, I agree with you that this is more about the wagons than about that exploit, and the conversation should be over there, not here.--Kydo 02:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

== Culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Trading flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
'''Re: Adeptable's changes''' I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:::Ack, somehow didn't see this. Empty bins will still show up as Trading in the bring goods to depot menu, unmark them and your dwarves will haul them back to where they're needed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::Surely the bins' "Trading" status disappears after the Trader leaves? I mean, I've never noticed them as still being marked for "Trading" when the next caravan arrives next season. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 22:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

 

== How many wagons? ==

I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've never seen more than two at a time before flooding my fortress. I didn't realize they could send more than two at a time. Kydo 14:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==

Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot?

I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)

:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)

:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.
:::::Auto Hotkey thingy. Heard it works wonders. Never tried it though.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== Merchant moods ==

My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?

:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Just got something close happening. They entered the map, and were chased off the map by goblins then the merchant went melancholy and a pack mule went stark raving mad. The only difference here is that one of them was actually killed before they left the map, so it could be he was unhappy over that. But still surprised that the merchants can get these kinds of moods and even weirder that the animals can... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== No more dwarven caravan ==

So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)

::I'm on year 13 of my most recent fortress and the Dwarven caravan declined to show up this year, after 12 years of no problem. I still don't meet the requirements for the Incoming King. In a previous game I did meet those requirements, and that did not interfere with the caravan (though the liason stopped letting me place orders once the king arrived). Anyway, I don't think my current fort has anything in common with what you've described, other than a mysteriously missing caravan after not damaging previous ones. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 00:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::It appears my problem was caused by a brief goblin siege that occurred when the caravan was supposed to be showing up. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==

I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::is this still true? i was unwittingly stealing everything off the merchants via the stocks screen. i dont have any steel yet, as i've not found any flux or iron ore. but every now and again, i noticed i had a bunch of steel/iron weapons/bolts/armo(u)r, so designated it all for melting, etc, etc.. eventually, i chose to 'dump' everything to see where they were getting it, and they were stripping the merchants of all their goods/clothes/everything metal xD will they come and siege me anytime soon? my army's not ready yet! i do give good profit margins (20%+), but i'm sure the stuff i nick is much more valuable :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::I've noticed that starving dwarves appear to be happy to steal food from merchants. I'm running 0.28.181.40d, and, being new to this, almost experienced [[fun]] due to lack of food. The dwarven caravan arrived in the nick of time, and rather to my surprise once they got close a clump of dwarves started hobbling their way over to the caravan. Once they got to it they started following it back to the depot (at full speed, not sure why), and then made off with a plump helmet each once the merchants started unpacking. Obviously food is rather less valuable than steel, but theoretically this too could tip the merchants into loss if you didn't buy much, assuming that profit/loss accounting is done this way. --[[User:Jenesis|Jenesis]] 19:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

== Wagon movement ==

I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)

They can, it just requires 7 tiles instead of 3 --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 04:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Arrival dates ==

Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:I've kept track over about 5 years. The Dwarf caravans seem to arrive around the 15th or 16th of Limestone and leave about the same time in Sandstone. The Human caravans seem to arrive around the 12th to 14th of Hematite and leave in Malachite. I don't have any data yet for the Elves. Once I get some more data points, I'll edit the wiki to add this info. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 17:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

:: Here I've got elves arriving the 11th of Granite. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::16th of hematite for humans here. 40d. Elves 11th too --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::They're supposed to leave one month to the day after they arrive - that's the same day number, next month. For me, I've seen dwarf caravans arrive as early as the 10th, and as late as the 17th (but usually toward the first part of that, 10-12th). (Usually right after the first dogs whelp, but that's from the Growers Almanac.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Wagons and magma==
A dwarven trade caravan passing over a magma channel on its way to my trade depot recently caught fire. Naturally, this caused lots of [[fun]], but I'm a bit perplexed by it. There was nothing flammable on the bridge - in fact, the magma beneath was 1/7 deep at best - but it looks like the wagons just spontaneously combusted as they passed over the stream. Can anyone confirm that it was the magma that caused this, or were the children just playing with matches again? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:07, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven Caravan Wood Logs ==
I noticed there was a "verify" next to "carries more wood the less trees you cut down" under the Elven Caravans and am not sure if it is right or not. Can anyone confirm this? I have observed the stock of wood brought by the elves in two games as increasing significantly with time. In one of the games wood was scarce, in the other wood was plentiful but to dangerous to cut down and in both I would consistently buy out all of the wood logs from every caravan. So I had theorized the increase in the number of logs brought was related to demand conveyed by buying out the stock repeatedly for years. However, not cutting down trees and buying out all the wood logs would tend to go hand in hand. Also, to really see a significant increase in a specific item I would need to buy out all the wood stock from a caravan for close several years. It is possible that both the demand and level of "production" of wood determine how much is brought. If either is true for wood, then it might be true for other items that Elves bring. Also, did I format this thing right? --[[User:Pencilinhand|PencilinHand]] 8:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)
:In my experience it's something more like - the more you have in stock, the less they bring. I was buying out all logs from them, and they brought ~120 logsevery year, and I chopped a lot of trees, but used them fast. Then I built some wooden machinery (axles, windmills), my stocks always showed about 100 logs in them after that, and elves began to bring only about 5 logs...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::I did a series of experiments over a period of 3 years in my current fort and can confirm that Dorten is right and my previously stated theories are wrong. A forts stockpile of wood appears to be the biggest factor in determining how much wood is brought by the elven caravans. When I had a stockpile of 51 wood logs the elves brought no wood, when I had a stockpile of 0 wood logs they brought 43 wood logs, similar results were observed regardless of if I was cutting down trees during the year(though I did not test any clear cuts). The other caravans may have brought more wood as well, but further testing is needed before I am confident in that statement, as it may have been caused by offerings/gifts. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::I've done some of my own testing and have found that '''all''' caravans follow this behavior - the less wood you have, the more caravans will bring. The trick is that with the human and dwarven caravans, the excess can be limited or eliminated outright if you've requested them to bring enough specific goods to reach their weight limit - if you go a year without making any requests, they'll bring tons of wood logs. An interesting way of manipulating this further is to simply '''forbid''' all of the logs in your fortress before the caravan arrives - doing this, I've made the elves bring nothing but wood when they would otherwise bring their typical goods (tested with save backups as well). Incidentally, actually requesting wood logs via the liaison doesn't really help much, since a maxed out request only makes them bring '''4''' logs of each type (which is near useless with the dwarves). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

==Trade Depot Color==
I know this doesn't have anything to do with trading, but it is interesting. Since Trade Depots are made out of 3 stones (or logs etc etc), if you combine stones of various colors, what do you get? I tried combining Orthoclase (yellow), Kimberlite (blue) and Olivine (green), and I got a green depot. Then I tried Gabbro (black) and 2 Orthoclase, and the depot was yellow. Kimberlite, Petrified Wood (red) and Olivine, the depot was green. Does anyone know how the color is selected?

:As far as I understand is the last stone for the color (or was it the first one?) --[[User:NobbZ|NobbZ]] 10:50, 23 February 2009 (EST)
::I'll have to fire up the game again when I get home, but I could have sworn that I've occasionally wound up with two-tone depots when I've used different stones. The main part was one color while the corners were another. But maybe I'm just imagining things. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::I just built a trade depot out of 3 Orthoclase (yellow) and it turned out where about half of it was yellow and half was white. Not like a two tone either, just blotches of yellow and blotches of white... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Sounds like that might be a screen (or eye) problem. [[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 16:43, 19 August 2009
:::::No... It's nothing like that. It's where different "block" of the Trade Depot appeared different colors. So, like some parts would have yellow blocks in it, where other parts would have white blocks. So... like...

WWWYW 
WWYYY 
WWWYY 
WWWWY 

But not exactly that, I can't remember the exact design of it. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== stealing animals ==

One of the objects I happened to cheat the game of was a nickel cage with a dog in it. on the units page, the dog was still shown to belong to the traders. Is there any way to change this? (or at least any [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun fun] to be had from this?)

: What happens when you [[kennel|train]] it into a war dog? or, for that matter, does the game recognize it as an animal that can be [[kennel|tamed]]? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:15, 25 March 2009 (EST)

==Buggy behavior with sieges==

In my current game the dwarven caravan arrived, followed immediately by a goblin siege. I crushed the siege but a couple caravan guards and a pack animal were killed. A handful of merchants, guards and animals got stuck at the edge of the map, and I never got to trade, even though all the wagons made it safely into the depot. I was however able to make the usual arrangements with the liason. Then I got the message that the caravan was leaving but they didn't actually go. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any way to fix it? --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 23:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

:In case something like this happens to anyone else, I found that digging out the area under the stuck merchants and collapsing it fixed the problem. The survivors started moving off the map and the wagons immediately pulled out of the depot. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Limited Caravan Accessiblity ==

Contrary to the comments in the section on wagons, I do not believe you can force a caravan to enter the map at a specific point. Running 0.28.181.40d, I build a wall so that there is only one entrance to the map that is accessible to the depot. Humans arrived from another point of the map, and I got the message "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site." I do see 'Depot accessible' on D. --[[User:Sfogarty|Sfogarty]] 05:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:As for my experience, game first chooses the side of the map for traders, and then checks if wagons can reach depot. I had to chop trees yearly to keep fortress accessible before I've build a road. However, it can be not side but embarking tile that is chosen before accessibility check, but I haven't done any experiments to validate if it is the case. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== lazy dwarves ==

I just had a Human Caravan.

None of my dwarves did anything. Not a single mug or gem or meal was moved to the depot. I had to disable my broker's labours- ALL of his labours- to get him to speak with the diplomat following him about like a lost puppy.

Now, I see a 'priority' setting function in the Manager. Would this be practical or even usable to set Depot requests high?

== Attacked caravan slowed down - bug? ==

All right, I was in my third or so year. Autumn came and the dwarven caravan showed up - along with a Goblin ambush. Naturally the two fought in front of my fortress (with some strategic ranged support from my marksdwarves). Of the three wagons, one was destroyed (phat lewt!). Thing is, once the Goblins were taken out of the pricture one of the wagons moved *very* slowly - slow enough, in fact, that it didn't even get into the trading depot before I got the message that the caravan was going to leave soon. The wagon froze at the edge of the depot, two steps shy of getting into position, and then they both just sat there - I never even got the option to trade with them :-/ Has anyone else encountered a similar issue or did my game just have a bout of cranial flatulence?

: I have seen my caravan ambushed by goblins (killing the ambush) and then retreat... No trade this season. I guess this kind of behaviour should go in the main page [[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 17:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::It seems that when you request a large amount of heavy (literally) goods, the wagon (which actually counts as a creature that hauls items) might become encumbered and move very slowly. It might even be unable to reach the trade depot before the merchants leave, especially if the map forces it to move along a long path between trees. I might wrong, this needs testing. [[User:Mateusz|Mateusz]] 16:19, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
::''(Moved from [[bug]] main article by --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:11, 5 September 2009 (UTC))''

== requested items ==

Any time I request specific items... the next caravan turns up with exactly 1 of each item and nothing else.

So I get caravans turning up with a total of say 6 items.

Any suggestions?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]]
:Not sure. Maybe it depends on the actual availability of said items? In one game where I played in a pretty barren area and I asked my dwarven traders to bring lots of wood and they brought like 60 something of it the next season. When asking for meat, they bring plenty of it as well. What are you trying to request though? I requested some flux stone once and only got 6 flux stone rocks.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::example: various types of leather - I got 1 of some of the types.
::I think maybe I didn't send out enough value last time and I may have just made the same mistake. I'm trying too hard to get "value".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I also suspect it has to do with the avialability at the mountainhome - i get huge loads of requested wood, meat and specific types of leather, but bit coal, lignite, pig iron, steel bars and charcoal always only come in small amounts like, 6, though still more than when i do not request them (zero :( ) --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::::It is of course also limited by the total capacity of the caravan. In the first two years its easy to "push out" all the crap they normally bring with requests. Later they will bring everything, and more of, what you request, but still not necessarily "much".. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

== Merchant turned friendly ==
Bug or feature? A macedwarf that came with the caravan lagged a bit behind when leaving and stopped 2 tiles from the border. When i checked with 'u' he had turned friendly. Now he's standing there guarding.. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:This happens whenever the merchants have all left and soldiers are left over. He will leave eventually. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidden Items? ==

I've never had green glass items refused by Elves, on my current or any other map. My main export to everyone is green glass goblets on any map that supports cheap glass. I don't need wood for them but then, I didn't think the trading system(or the elves, for that matter) was sophisticated enough to tell. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== Error ==
I just had my first time ever true crash of DF - right on arrival of human caravan i got a message smth like "fatal error: nemesis failed to load unit". What does this mean and how do i find out if this is a known bug and where do i report it if not? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:Okay, google was my friend. For some odd reason all the files accompanying world.sav were gone, that causes this error. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 16:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
::C - you're on the forums - you haven't ever heard of this? See [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34936.0| Nemesis Errour]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

== Self-Deconstructing Wagon? ==

I had a human caravan enter my map, and right where they entered was a group of bonobos. I was accustomed to the caravans plowing right through animals with no consequences, but this time, the wagon exploded as it touched the bonobo. The wagon was nowhere to be seen afterward, just all the trade goods it was carrying (in addition to one kapok log, which I suspect the wagon was built from). The rest of the caravan promptly ran away. The only thing I had built there was a rock block road. Has anyone else had anything like this happen, and if so, under what circumstances? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 00:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:That happens when a wagon is killed, all of the goods fly out, the Bonobo probably attacked it, and the rest of the traders always run away if a caravan is destroyed.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:I had this happen to me too. A caravan arrive just as a bunch of Orcs did. I wasn't watching, but they must have toasted one wagon and the caravan fled off the map. It was frustrating for two reasons. First, being on the very edge of the map, the clean up was terrible, and second, all the items dropped were marked as stolen.[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 15:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:So should it be noted on the page that normally-passive animals can attack the caravan, sending everyone back home? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 21:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

== D hotkey removed in .40d? ==

I tried to see which paths the caravan could take using D: nothing came up, and it's not on the hotkey menu.

Edit: Nevermind, it's back. Don't know where it went. @_@
: You need a trade depot so you can use the command. As soon as you'll order to build a trade depot, you can use it. It'll be all red, until the trade depot is constructed. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 12:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Offering to the Elves ==

In an attempt to piss off the Elves, I offered them a piece of raw clear glass and they happily accepted it. Last I checked, they dislike clear glass because of the pearlash used in its construction. Attempting to '''trade''' them tower-cap logs, however, was successful in getting them angry, as was simply seizing their 30 bins of cloth. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
:Just now, I attempted to offer them a tower-cap log and they were annoyed as a result. Exactly why they accepted a piece of raw clear glass last time is beyond me... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Main Page/Quote

2009-11-05T10:34:11Z

Shardok: "Muskox has gone stark raving mad!"

{{Choose|c={{rand|82}}
|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.
|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!
|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]
|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!
|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!
|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!
|The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?
|"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."
|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].
|[[Booze]] does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.
|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.
|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.
|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.
|Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!
|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...
|Wait, you're MAKING animals? —''Torak'' At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows. —''Spiders Everywhere''
|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." --[[Toady One]]
|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen
|[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded. --[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]
|"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --[[Toady One]]
|"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example." --[[Toady One]]
|"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]
|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."
|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn
|The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]
|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.
|Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.
|"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita
|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]
|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero
|"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]
|"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
|"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin
|"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name."
|"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]
|"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]
|"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]
|"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing." --George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)
|Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.
|Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.
|Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."
|"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."
|"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."
|"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]
|Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.
|Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.
|Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.
|Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
|There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.
|There is nothing to catch in the magma pipe.
|Bug #563: mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass objects
|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?
|Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
|"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?" '''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
|An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.
|flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy
|'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.
|<Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.
|"If you give a dwarf a fire, he will be warm for a night. If you set a dwarf on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."
|"Since the Elves said they won't let me cut down any trees, I bought 50 of their logs instead."
|Do not make a trading race that breathes fire. I REPEAT, DON'T!! EVER!!
|Dwarf Fortress: Because burning elves are funny.
|The carp has drowned.
|There's one thing a dwarf needs, and that's stones. And alcohol... and magma... but mainly stones.
|"I swear to god once I saw a dwarf who was labeled as being Strong, Very Agile, Very Tough... and ''Clean''. But it was probably just a bad dream."
|Urist McRandy has been ecstatic lately. He brought somebody to bed lately.
|"Dwarven children kidnapped and incorporated into goblin society might sh... shave." --Toady One
|Bug #871: babies fall to death when born on stairs
|Bug #1031: a merchant pack animal caught at an old dwarf site during adv mode was wearing a full set of clothes
|"[[Magma]] solves everything. [[Fire]] just ruins the [[booze]]." -sonerohi
|You can't yet strangle people with the exposed guts, though I suppose that's now within reach. --[[Toady One]]
|Look, there are roving clumps of sentient lava outside, ... This isn't going to get better. --PTTG??
|...and the only surviving dwarf is a noble who has mandated the construction of crowns and clear glass items to the empty halls. --PTTG??
|Adil Idenlocun is conflicted: "When possible he prefers to consume purring maggot, Dwarven ale and Dwarven syrup. He absolutely detests purring maggots."
|"I had to leave just before I tested the dwarf with the boiling gold blood." -- Toady the Great One
|Urdim Zatinod has been quite content lately. She has lost an annoying friend to tragedy lately.
|Kara Mase, the Glory of Amusing: Engraved on the wall is an image of a dwarf and an elf. The dwarf is committing a depraved act on the elf.
|'They're firing arrows at us! Quickly! Raise the babies!!' -Urdim McSquadLeader, mother of 8
|...it was found that 40% of pioneer dwarves left the Mountainhome due to "framerate issues," with a margin of error of ±Booze. --Center for Dwarven Advancement
|I added two levers. One opens the magma. The other sets free all the cats. --Someone in Headshoots
|"As Manbaspecut, Human Merchant is stricken by melancholy!" "Muskox has gone stark raving mad!" I think something is wrong with the human caravan...
}}<noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude>

40d Talk:Immigration

2009-11-05T09:41:26Z

Shardok: /* Military immigrants without weapons */

==Multiple civs==
What information do we have about the relationship between immigration rate and the number of dwarven civs? Is there info? Is there a relation? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

==Comments regarding new version==
Don't know how much of this info is still valid. For example, the line "Notably, the incredibly useful Manager requires at least twenty dwarves." is a hold-over from the previous wiki. In fact, most of the noble-related info is outdated.
I'm going to edit out anything that I ''know'' to be wrong. Get rid of the wrong stuff, and we can start getting correct stuff in instead.[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The validation abilities of the manager still only appear after you have 20 dwarfs. But you can access the screen before that happens. Don't know if this validation has any additional effect or if the managers even work before that.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, the manager will work just fine when you have less than 20 dwarfs. He will need an office if you have more than 20 dwarfs.--[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 16:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

==migration vs location on world map==
I have a nagging sense from playing a year or two in a few different areas that the number of migrants is a bit more random now. I have one decently wealthy young outpost located far from it's civilization on the map which has gotten very few immigrants in the first two years. Perhaps with groups now moving on the overall map, it is more important to be close to your civilization's area so immigrant groups arrive more quickly and are less likely to get ambushed on the way? Pure conjecture on my part and not backed by any real evidence, but an interesting idea nonetheless. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:15, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Well, my first throw-away fortress got gigantic immigration crowds every single season. Then I abandoned, rerolled the world, and started a new fortress. It produces worlds more wealth than my first fortress, but I have only gotten one immigration wave on the second Spring, bringing my numbers to 24. I then received my second immigration on the start of the third Spring, bringing me up to 48 dwarves. I was very worried up until I got that first wave in the spring... I almost thought I was going to have to scrap the fortress and start again. For reference, I receive elf, human, and dwarf traders. No sieges yet. I have no deaths so far. It would seem that the MAXIMUM immigration amount is 24 for one season. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 23:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::I've gotten 25 immigrants in one wave, but one of these was a child, which may ironically go into the 'pets' category rather than 'dwarf' category. Do children have parents when they come with immigrants? -Gotthard
::: I've had a family of four come in one wave-Husband and Wife and 2 children. The children were very sad when their mother got killed by a goblin. I also had a dwarf born from parents in my first immigration wave. Has anyone every had two dwarfs marry? Not arrive married but get married at your fort. Just wondering if it's possible. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::::With this latest version release (0.27.176.38a), dwarves can indeed marry each other at your fortress. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 04:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Just to confirm, I have to confirmed marriages at my fortress (these were both from my original seven dwarves) [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 06:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh, this has been known since, like, version 0.27.176.38a. Did you not read that comment properly, much less check the date of it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:57, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::Update: On the summer of my third year, I finally received some migrants! Woooo. I received about 12 immigrants. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 01:35, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

::Happend to me sometimes to, you have to wait for immigrants sometimes. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==clarification on editing ini file==
One point of conflict in this article. It states that once the immigration limit is reached normal immigration is ceased. It then encourages a method of editing the init file to curb immigration. It says to just reedit it when you want more dwarfs. In my findings when I use this tactic as soon as my limit is hit I get no more dwarfs, even after reediting the init file to a higher number.

The section where it says "A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration." is really obvious and there's no other information there. I think it should be removed, or at least made part of the general information. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]

--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:17, 17 February 2008 (EST)
==Talk Page from Migrant==
This page should be merged with the page on immigration. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:47, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:Agreed, and done --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

I felt this edited out info is worth keeping here as hint for further investigations.

=== Immigration Triggers ===

Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by hitting 'Z') reaches:

* 5,000
* 10,000
* 100,000
* 140,000
* 165,000 (?)
* 300,000
* 340,000

== Equipment ==

(This should probably go on the Migrant talk page, but this page seems to be busier)

Will an immigrant always arrive with the necessary equipment to perform his skills? ie, will a hunter always arrive with a crossbow, armour and bolts? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:nope, sometimes you get an immigrant who doesn't have the right equipment. (Had woodworkers with carpentry and wood cutting skills withouth an axe). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:46, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::I think it depends a bit on how multi-skilled they are: if he had been a [[woodcutter]] he would have had an axe but as he was a woodworker... well, carpenters need a workshop not an axe.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

'''Immigrant's equipment''' A migrant may not not always come with the necessary equipment... ...a Wood cutter may or may not come with a battle axe.... Rarely, ...a Carpenter may come with a battle axe.
I've seen a lot of migrants - I cannot remember ''any'' axes ''ever'' showing up except with axedwarves. Ambushers do the "free leather armor/crossbow/bolts" dance, and military dwarves sometimes come armed/armored, but can anyone confirm that the above is, even rarely, a valid statement for ''any'' other equipment? The poster above (Soyweiser) posted back in '07, several versions ago. Axes? Picks? I've never seen either. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Combat Immigrants ==

I have yet to have any of my immigrants to show up as military types, even though I've at least produced crossbows in every fort I've run so far. Had one fort reach it's 6th year and have crafted every type of weapon available without a single dwarf showing up with combat skills. Anyone verify that this is still true? --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)

You were just unlucky. I have forged some hammers and axes and a hammer and a axe soldier showed up at my fort [[Doler 12]], 18:11 19 November 2007 (GMT+1)

:Did you maybe create a military and train dwarves in hammers and axes? --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:19, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:: The one and only military migrant (a Marksdwarf) I got so far came after I had someone advance to Champion level. Is this just a coincidence or have other people noticed this? --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:44, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:::No. I made crossbows and got marksdwarves immigrants and my best soldier was a novice crossbowman. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:55, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

The equipment requirement is also filled by artifacts, I had a mood produce a sword and just got a swordsdwarf. The only weapon I have commanded to be forged was a crossbow. --[[User:Diserian|Diserian]]

== Immigration Rate ==

Has anyone noticed there seems to be a logarithmic curve associated with immigration? In the beginning, it doesn't matter what I do to keep my wealth down (including only building 7 beds and a small wooden 'shack' to put them above ground, and not mining out any squares) I seem to get a ton of immigrants. However, going from 1.1M to 1.4M resulted in only 5 immigrants or so the whole year. Either there might be a 'minimum' baseline for forts (and 7 isn't it, seems closer to 25-40 or so, doesn't matter what your wealth is you will grow to that) or it is logarithmic. I don't think it is related to deaths in my large fortress, I've had one elite marksdwarf die to a hydra, and 6-7 more (in 6 years) to goblins, moods, etc. I don't have the economy, perhaps this slows it down around 100? --Gotthard 11:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Heh, I'm about to test that: my first winter killed six of my dwarves so we'll see how many migrants I get. I'm currently outnumbered by dogs about 10:1... unfortunately I also lost my only mare so I've got two male horses, may as well kill both of them as soon as I need a quick snack! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:: Might as well add some info. While testing, I lost 4 of my initial dwarf. I digged a 3x3 up/down stair (mined some gold), build one bed, one armor rack. And that's it. Well I did kill some rhesus macaque and stole some food from a caravan. Yet 5 migrants still came anyway without a lot of wealth. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:54, 28 January 2009 (EST)
:::A bear attacked me during the first season, killing 2 dwarves, and badly wounding my leader/carpenter. After mining about 5 or 6 gem deposits, a hematite vein, a limonite vein, and a coal vein, my first immigrant wave came with 24 dwarves. Now, after a moody engraver made an artifact, I've engraved pretty much every available surface, masterpieces everywhere, and I'm afraid of how many dwarves I'll have after the next wave. The biggest problem is I don't know how many bedrooms to build ahead of time. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Military immigrants without weapons ==

I started a game with just one dwarf. The first immigration wave, in the next spring, I got a recruit as one of my immigrants. This recruit had NO military skills, and no armor or weapons. What confuses me is that I had never created any weapons. The only remotely military thing I ever made was a single leather armor. If it matters, I hadn't created hardly anything else before that point either--a bed, basic furniture, less than ten stone crafts, no cooking, and that armor. Anyone else seen this? It throws a kink into the "weapons bring military dwarves" thing. Oh, and I also have pits as a feature in this map if it matters (as yet unrevealed). --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 09:28, 12 January 2008 (EST)
: Did the recruit have any skills? Otherwise he's basically the same as a peasant. How many dwarfs were in your military at the time. That might also have been a factor. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)

I just got something sorta like this. I've made warhammers mostly and maybe some axes/picks. And yet, one of my immigrants that came was a marksdwarf. I didn't even have any crossbows or bolts of any kind. I think the claim that you need to have made the weapons first might be outdated. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 09:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Seasons and Immigration ==

I've had immigrants arrive in spring, summer and fall but never winter. Has anyone had immigrants arrive in winter? Or does whether immigrants arrive in winter depend on your fort's climate? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:45, 29 January 2008 (EST)
: I just had a group of dwarves migrate during winter right after reading this. I am in a warm climate though. What was strange was in the following Summer I had another wave of migrants. Two in one year. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Multiple waves of immigration isn't unusual, I often get migrants in both autumn AND spring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had an immigrant wave arrive mid-summer in my first year. 6th Malachite, to be specific.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:07, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Headline text ==

Currently, my record is 32 dwarfs, 8 kids and pets. anybody else beaten that?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 07:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if you are sure of that, you should add it to the article. While most people seem to get smth like 20 to 25 ( my max being 19+pets), no one knows if ther's a limit and how high it is, so.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::i regularly get 24 exactly, but on a few cases ive gotten more, most being 28, with lots of kids -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Strange stuff ==

Once I had a leatherworker who came onto the map and as soon as he appeared, there was a message
'dwarf has been possessed'
Strange, has this happenedto any once? Was he possessed before he came to my Fortress? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That once happened to someone in the 2D version... tis quite simple. When a fey mood occurs, a random dwarf gets it. As it so happened, this dwarf had recently immigrated to your fortress. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Interesting, can't say I've come across that particular bug, although I did come across an item with no name! It was just called a "Large ." --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It isn't a bug. The fey immigrant, not the "Large ." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: I seem to get this a lot - the wealth embodied by all those new clothes on the backs of the immigrants might push the fortress wealth over a level needed to trigger a strange mood, perhaps. Then it's luck of the draw whether it strikes a settled dwarf or a new immigrant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:50, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lone Dwarf ==

"A migrant has arrived."
For some reason I only got one migrant this time! Weird! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:28, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Migrant caps ==

The cap is set in my init.txt file as 200, but in one of my fortresses I got well over 200 (something like 225). Is there anything that could cause this other than a straight-up glitch? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 23:04, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:The population cap is only checked to see if another migrant wave is allowed. It is entirely possible, often likely, that the actual number of migrants in the wave pushes the population over the value set. IIRC, pregnancies will also bypass the cap. The softness of this limit is a well known... feature... :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:However I had mine set to 50, had a wave of immigration that pushed it from <50 to 59, and have just gotten another load of migrants. Is there some hard coded minimum population? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::It won't stop at exactly 50 -- you just stop getting immigrant waves after you exceed your cap.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:36, 6 December 2008 (EST)

I've got a cap of 0 and I still get bleeding migrant waves. I still get them with a cap of 1, too. Is there any way to turn them off? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:46, 3 February 2009 (EST)

== Migrant skills ==

Does the amount of workshops you have for a skill affect how many immigrants have that skill? I've had no dyer's shop for a really long time, and I notice I have only one dyer, whereas I have plenty of dwarves with every other skill. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 21:19, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
: I don't think so, because I always get hordes of dyers, cheese makers, and woodburners, even when I don't have any of the appropriate workshops. I really miss the days of getting miners, siege operators, growers, and masons.--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 16:59, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Your fortress attracted no migrants this season." ==

I'm playing a Haunted fortress on a volcano for the first time, and I got this message in my first summer. It seemed odd because I almost never get migrants during the first summer, but this is the first time that fact was announced. Is this a tweak in the new version (181.40c), which I just downloaded today, or is it because I'm in a haunted map? I got the message again in the fall. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 17:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:lots of people dying discourages immigration, as well as certain import/export/mining and immigration map factors, as far as i can tell.--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 21:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Id say its a new feature of the game, since it didn't occur before that version.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:08, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed an extension of this- I got a message just now, all in red, saying "Migrants refused to journey to such a dangerous fortress this season." Ive been raided near constantly by goblins over the last year of this game, so maybe that influences immigrants now? .--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 13:47, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd imagine it's due to the number of recent deaths, specifically. [[Immigration#How_can_I_curb_immigration.3F|That's covered in the article]]. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:11, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:^_^ I got a new message about immigration recently. "Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb". Seriously, I get very few deaths normally... this last season was bad because I've been building roads to try to entice the king, so I have more dwarves ranging far from the fortress. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 22:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::"No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season." Can you tell I just breached the [[Glowing pits|Fun stuff]]? 150 Dwarfs dead in less then a season.[[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I don't think it takes much... losses of about 4-5 dwarfs over the course of a year resulted in my getting both of the above messages about cursed death traps and probable tombs. Maybe it was the horrific way in which they happened... the Duchess's consort was ripped limb from limb right in front of the forest by an ambushing goblin party and I lost a few other people to goblin raids where they had every single body part broken and mangled before they died (sometimes a high toughness is a bad idea... as Jame said in ''Godstalk'', it's a good idea to always have the option of dying). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I've got many time this message : "Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season.".
I don't really know where does this come from... facts that can explain that are :

* I've been raided many times (something like 3-4 ambushes a year, and it's my 4th year) by goblin ambushers, and have been besieged by humans. But the last ambushers hadn't killed many dwarves (1 dwarf and 2 kittens last time).
* I settled on cold (north) and freezing (south, my fortress being approximatively in the north) biomes. The river in the south part of the map is always frozen, and the north murky pools freezes something like 6 months a year.
* Merchants (human, that's what caused the siege, but also -maybe- dwarves) has been killed during ambushes. I don't remember how many, but it may have scared the mountainhomes.

Also, immigration seems to be much slower than in my precedents forts (one wave per year or so, when it's not cancelled by the above message), and I noticed that I haven't received caravans since a year or so (maybe related with the above statement about merchants deaths). -[[User:Timst|Timst]] 12:58, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I also got the migrants where to nervous to migrant message, i dont know where it came from, before i got the migrants braved the danger message but for the past 2 years or so even with 2 sieges and numerous ambushes ive had no deaths, and im not on a dangerous biome, so the nervous migrant message most likely as nothing to do with either deaths or biomes... -sindain

I've killed off nearly every single dwarf that's immigrated to my fortress. I've got a nasty infestation of Carp (40+, with the assorted Sturgeon, Sea Lamprey, and Longnose Gar) in my river, and I've been sending the immigrants I didn't like to their deaths to whittle away at their numbers. The only immigration messages I've gotten are "Some immigrants have arrived, despite the danger," and "No immigrants have arrived this season." Odd that no one seems to be concerned about the high percentage of deaths in my immigrants any more than to say, "Well, it seems kind of dangerous there, but let's go anyway!" Then they end up being ripped limb from limb by vicious schools of Carp. Why is my fortress not yet labelled a death trap? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 14:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

==No immigration?==
I just played a game with no immigration. There were no dwarven civilizations nearby. How did that even happen? --[[User:Fringd|Fringd]] 22:10, 8 November 2008 (EST) (Moved from article page --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:23, 9 November 2008 (EST))
: You didn't start the game on an island, did you? It's not entirely impossible to find a location where there are no other civilizations near you, but the world gen certainly does a good job at making this difficult. Can you post an export or seed of your map? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:01, 15 March 2009 (EST)
: You said it yourself - "There were no dwarven civilizations nearby". If, during world-gen, all of those get wiped out (by the various forces and fates that worldgen subjects civs to), then congrats - you're all alone. Islands can do it too - it's hardly unheard of. But it does deserve a comment here I suppose. (I always check all the various info via {{key|tab}} on that site finder screen - make sure I have both trading partners and enemies. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

==Immigration season ==

For me, immigration seems to follow this trend: Randomly and completely independent of wealth, a small imigration may occur during summer/autumn/winter. This immigration is always typically in the very small amount range (seems to be no greater than about 10). However, during spring, immigration will ''always'' occur and be an amount dependent on wealth [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== Immigrants braving the tomb ==

Just got the message with 61 deaths and ~2,070,0000 created wealth. I'm guessing wealth is based on 2,000,000 and that the message occurs whenever one gets no immigration from danger, regardless of deaths (I let my queen die, e.g. and that's probably all it took). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

==This page contradicts itself.==

Where it says the caravan reports your wealth, than says if you are productive immigrants may come in the first summer. Something must be wrong, if there is no caravan report than your productivity would have nothing to do with it. If on the other hand it is productivity AND the caravan reports, then the guesses on other parts of the calculations for migrant waves are probably off.--[[User:Criptfeind|Criptfeind]] 16:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
: I went ahead and reworded a bit. Probably anyone agrees that wealth is a strong factor and I also have the impression that the dwarven caravan has an influence, but indeed neither is this proven fact AFAIK, nor is it the whole story. One might argue that word of early success (and great wealth/growth generally) gets around without caravan, but the detailed report of the caravan attracts more dwarves to come, but this is simply speculation. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:: Well it really doesn't matter too much in any case. After lots and lots of experimention and trying out builds, the amount of wealth required to get the maximum immgrants up until 50 population is incredibly low, and the first spring/summer/august immgrations will always happen randomly (after starting the first year for about 16 tests, I actually got more summer/autumn immigration with less wealth than the very high wealth trials (120k+ by first caravan), but I'm guessing it's coincidence). Getting 20k by the first caravan and 100k by the first caravan will net the exact same immgration for a long time (~8 for non-spring, 20-30 for spring). It's when you get incredibly low amounts, like 5k or so, by doing nothing but stat training on sand walls for two straight seasons, that you even notice a change in immigration. In that case I've gotten as little as 6 immigrants on the gauranteed new year's spring immigration, but you STILL get a random chance for summer/autumn/winter immigration. Once you get about 50, though, wealth makes a solid difference, but I'm too lazy to run tests for 3 year old fortresses. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

==migration and location on world map==
I know this is a really old discussion on the matter, and was from a different version. But to bring this topic back into context. I just started a fortress on the space right next to a dwarven mountainhome and in Summer of my first year I got 9 immigrants, then come Autumn, before my caravan left, I got another 9 dwarves coming. These were the first dwarves I had ever received before Spring of the second year of a fortress, and my wealth was under 5000 even when the first wave came, and just around 15000 when the second wave arrived. Could the close proximity to the other fortress be having an affect on my immigrant waves? [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 11:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well, I would agree, especially when you start your new fortress near your home civ. When I do so my autumn wave arrives rather fast after the carvan leaves. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Immigration tied to liason, not caravan ==

I don't think your wave of immigrants is tied to the caravan. I believe it is tied to the liason. In one game I traded with the caravan first and then talked to the liason. No immigrants arrived that fall of my first year. I reloaded, talked to the liason first, and sent him on his way as fast as I could and then traded with the caravan. And I got 7 immigrants my first year. My fortress wealth also was not very high at all (20k or so). Finally, sometimes, no matter how quickly I talk to the liason, I still don't get the immigrants the first year... so my theory could be wrong. But my experience indicates that the liason is tied to your immigrant waves.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 15:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is an interesting observation, and might well prove to have merit - HOWEVER... it doesn't yet. There are a LOT of random and unknown factors in DF. Repeat this experiment 5 times on different maps, with the same results, and it will gain more support - and surprise the hell outa me, because of the randomizers. Immigration (like combat, king's arrival and some other events) are the type of thing that must be seen as trends, not specific instances, because of all the variables and unknowns.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
::I can add weight to this theory as well. My first year, three raccoons (apparently DIRE RACCOONS!) ambushed and killed the wagon, leaving all the items on the map and all the traders left before getting to my trade depot. The liason made it successfully to the meeting and off the map, and my first migrant wave is currently in progress on 28th Sandstone in Autumn of year 1. To sum up -- merchants did not hit my trade depot (but did leave map, so maybe they DID report wealth somehow through the magic of...traderliness), Liason did, I have migrants. [[User:Rowenlemmings|''Rowen'']][[User Talk:Rowenlemmings|(talk)]] 03:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/Quote

2009-11-05T07:51:56Z

Shardok:

== How to add quotes: ==

* Go to the line of the last quote.
* Add a line immediately after it (this should be before the closing }} brackets)
* type "|YOUR-QUOTE-HERE" on that line
:(The quote number is not functionally necessary, but it allows keeping track of how many quotes there are without counting)
* Look at the first line of the template
:It should look something like this:
<pre>{{Choose|c={{rand|37}}</pre>
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 37 to reflect the number of quotes in the list.
*Preview your reply to make sure nothing is broken (or someone will be able to see it on the main page before it gets fixed)
*Profit!
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion: 
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

== Screenshots ==
The [http://www.dfwk.ru/index.php/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 russian wiki] has made use of the system here to show random DF screenshots rather than quotes. I think this is a rather clever idea. Maybe we have a good spot where we could place something similar? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

: Neat Idea. We could have one quote and one screenshoot. But we should define a standard size for the screenshot. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::200x150 would make it fit the 800x600 curses, with proportional distortion all around, without taking up much in the way of page real estate. If the real estate is deemed not quite so valuable, then 400x300 would work even better, suffering half the overall distortion (but still maintaining a relatively small footprint, and keeping aspect ratio intact.) Unless we're happy with the smaller size I suggested, a page overhaul is going to be needed to find a place to put it, such that it doesn't make a jumble out of the rest of it. (Conversely, I think the 200x150 would fit very neatly in the space already allotted to one of the quotes.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:Also, it could easily be arranged so that quotes and screenshots are paired. That way each screenshot has an accompanying caption. It would take quite a bit of work to get images for the current ones, though. I guess we could start them off as random stuff and switch them out as we go. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:: How does one add screenshots? -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 06:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which part don't you get? Saving screenshot, uploading image, adding it to the main page?
:::Assuming you mean the last bit - see [[Template talk:Sg]] - there should be some better form of documentation for [[Main page]] shouldn't there![[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 09:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== "[B]loats" ==

For what it's worth, the nowiki formatting around square bracketed 'B' in the Toady quote about boats was simply in the interests of quoting accuracy; the original word was not capitalized and I still have that kind of formatting in my heart from college paper citations. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. It looked to me like a weird, failed boats/bloats pun. I don't think it really matters; you can change it back if you like. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:19, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you! And done. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Quote removal ==

Say, why was the "interrupted by carp" quote removed? I loved that one. --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Blame Savok, he thought it was unfunny. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:22, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

And regarding VengefulDonut stripping off that last one, PTTG's quote was simply hilarious. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:19, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Thinking on this some more, the idea that anyone can just reverse a quote at their leisure strikes me as unusual. If a quote is an obvious spam, that's one thing; if a quote is something that ''you'' don't think of as funny, I think there should be some sort of consensus system involved. There are at least a couple existing quotes that I don't find funny in the slightest (Spiders Everywhere, you've been processed, GreyMario's), but I don't remove them. --[[User:JT|JT]]

My 2☼ on the subject: 
Unless a quote is offensively directed at a particular user/person, I don't see how there are any grounds for removal. 
If it is, it's perfectly acceptable for the addressed person to remove it, if they so choose. 
Additionally, you may remove quotes of yourself, whether or not they're offensive, regardless of who added the quote. 
In all cases, it's the sole responsibility of the addressed person to remove a quote, not someone else. 
I think that makes sense.. but perhaps I'm too far off base? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:When anyone is able to add a quote at their leisure, we will naturally end up with plenty of quotes that aren't funny. If anyone is able to remove a quote at their leisure, quotes that aren't funny will disappear. This is parallel to the wikipedia editing process in general, and I think this kind of process has decent results. Although I am open to other proposals.
:On the topic of racy jokes: I'm sure there are plenty of group-targeted jokes that could be stated in DF terms that would be very funny; just pick a group, a metaphor, and a stereotype. But even if you tell a member of that group to grow a thicker skin or to stop taking themselves seriously or learn to take a joke, it doesn't turn the joke from something alienating to something entertaining. In the right context, those kinds of jokes can be very funny even to those on the butt end of them. Standup comedians succeed or fail based on their ability to create it. But I don't think that the front page is the right context. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:24, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

::Unless its blantantly offensive I don't think "unfunny" is a reason to remove a quote, we each have our own sense of humour, such debate should be placed here on the discussion page imo. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Bleh. I'd like to, but nobody answers most discussion page debates in reasonable time. If we become more regularly active in discussion page debates (which isn't hard - we've got several that any experienced player can add to), we might be able to do that. As it is, the responses are usually at least a few days, often months apart. And then, occasionally, we get one that has five people with fifteen comments in a day or two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

As I've said before, if you want to revert those of my deletes that you really think should stay, that's fine. The way I see it, and the way some have said before me, anybody can, if they think it's funny enough, add a quote to the page. Of course, we will get some pretty poor quotes that way, so anyone can, if they dislike it enough, delete a quote from that page. If an edit war occurs, we can take it to the talk page (with the war attention, we'll actually have commenters), where it can be resolved. We Are Not Wikipedia. We're too small for that; everyone knows everyone else and anyone can monitor all edits if they have a little time to spend. 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], rambling at 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

== [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19686.msg206978#msg206978 Too untasteful?] ==

I found this on the forums:
<div style="width: 12em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' 
Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching</div>
For? Against? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. DF has people exploding in gore. Besides, these words are in the game anyway.
-- [[User:InquisitorSaturn|InquisitorSaturn]] 01:44, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. Lets be honest; how many people are likely to come to this wiki that aren't mature enough to enjoy a little mature humor. If anything people are more likely to complain that it didn't make them laugh then that they are worried that kids might see it. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 01:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nobody gives a fuck about the kids, man. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

For - Very funny and clever --[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 17:33, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Against. I think it might be funny once or twice, but it is not necessarily something that I want to see on the front page for hours until the quote changes again. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 10:26 June 14 (MST)

:Mmmm... against. When there were 2 quotes on the page, maybe. But now that there's only 1, I'd rather not have this be "representative" of any DF experience, when it's simply not. In fact, it has nothing to do with DF - it's just crude. (Not that that's a bad thing - it just has nothing to do with DF.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Multi-Line Quotes ==

I assumed your multi-line quote was an error because it rendered incorrectly when it appeared on http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote , and did so again when you restored the original. I've re-re-restored it in the interests of peace but I do note that the text extends outside the box and one line actually appears below the box. I'm less certain whether it appears this way on the main page. Perhaps we need a different way to enter multi-line quotes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:The quote that's causing problems is kinda long, either way. How about we just bonk it on the head?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:15, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::But it's funny. :( --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

:Just out of curiosity, what browser? It appears just fine in Firefox 2. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:39, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Firefox 3. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:My multi-line quote (shown below) doesn't appear to break anything (browser used: Firefox 3). --[[User:Beerdude26|Beerdude26]] 15:26, 22 January 2009 (EST)

<blockquote>
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"

'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
</blockquote>

== Okay wtf who broke shit where. ==

On the main page, the second random quote is just a '. WHAT GIVES? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:I can't find any recent changes to the code of the selector, and given that the first selector works, it's hard to blame a syntax error either. The mainpage does a weird thing to guarantee the quotes are different, passing |1 to the page as a parameter or...something. Someone who knows wikicode may know what's going on. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:13, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The problem is a bit deeper. [[template:rand]] and [[template:rand2]] use the mod function inside a #expr to mod the current timestamp and return a number in a specified range. The mod function is returning negative values for large inputs (this is a bug). Since it seems I can't guarantee a positive number will have a positive mod, I don't know how to modify the templates to make sure they keep returning positive numbers. Smaller inputs would be nice, but I need it to vary with time, and those are the ones that are blowing it up. Also, I don't have absolute value or any binary number operations, so those methods are out. Absolute value would be available with a newer version of parser functions, but convincing [[user:senso|Senso]] is an obstacle there. I'm really not sure how to remedy this. Anyone have ideas? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::: I say divide the end result before modulusing by 4. That'll still give pseudo-random numbers, just less often, and might work until a better fix rears its not-so-ugly head. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::: <s>Good idea. I'll try it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::: Didn't work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::: Feel free to fool around with [[template:rand]] and push a fix if you can find one. Just make sure to preview. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Ah well, it was worth a shot. I'll see what I can come up with in the [[Template:Sandbox|sandbox]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:31, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::<s>UPDATE: It appears using <tt><nowiki>{{#expr: ((({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} / 1024) + {{CURRENTDAY}} + {{CURRENTMONTH}}) mod {{{1|100}}}) + 1}}</nowiki></tt> seems to produce positive numbers for now. I'll go update [[Template:Rand2]] and see if it works.</s> <s>So much for that, but at least it was returning positive numbers. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::::Okay, I blame certain things being slow for the fact that it works over in the Sandbox but not in the Main Page/Quote template. :S But the good news is, it's at least producing a result over at the sandbox. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Can you use an <nowiki> {{ #ifexpr: {{{num}}} >= 0 | {{{num}}} | {{ #expr: {{{num}}} * -1 }} }} </nowiki> to replace abs? (I may have the syntax slightly wrong.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::Good call, Maximus. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:04, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::::You know, I thought of that just last night but was too busy falling asleep. :( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::::I stole it off your desk.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:06, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Here we go again! It's started displaying the telltale ' again. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST) UPDATE: It's just gone away again. Might be worth a try to check the conditions next time it does it D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:08, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::Should be fixed now. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== What's This Jreengus Stuff About, Anyway? ==

Googling it just gets me pages telling me it's funny for those in the know somehow. If any place ought to have an explanation it's the wiki. That's what it's there for! :) --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:05, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Kobolds speak gibberish. The code that named an event allowed the kobolds to name it (when they won? maybe.), and that caused the name of an event to sometimes be a single word of gibberish. Toady mentioned that somewhere in some part of the dev notes.
:That's it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal. ==

Haaaaawhaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Awesome. We need more quotes that are as funny as this. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:48, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:How many people can understand dwarven without dictionary? :) Anyway, the quote is still funny as is. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 12:13, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Long quotes ==

"Engraved on the wall is a masterfully designed image of a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf mining out a wall." Yes this is a long quote but it's also funny, why ditch it? I didn't see any long quotes breaking the mainpage the way multi-line quotes did. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:They make the main page look like crap by stretching the quote box and pushing down everything else. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Surely there are other places to put funny things. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Not really, unless you mean 'keep this stuff off the wiki'. No, quotes aren't a big deal. They're just fun, i.e. 'the entire point'. ;p The Quote_Archive is an obvious aging relic, and ought to go anyway since there's no sense having multiple, separate pages of slightly different functionality and identical content patchily duplicating each other. I wonder if the quote wikicode could be done the other way around... I might play around on my talk page and see if I can build a useful something. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::The Quote Archive was originally created as a place for quotes to go to never be deleted, so that it wouldn't be that bad if someone lost a quote from Main Page/Quote. When I created it, I didn't realize the effort it would take to update it, so I'm going to go over there now and clean it up, making it all plaintext.
:::Also, I concur with Vengeful that the long quotes are overly ugly on the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:35, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::::Not arguing with that. I usually run screens at a high resolution so I didn't notice the stretching myself. I do think multiple quote pages is pointless though, 'specially considering folk like me will happen upon them and helpfully transfer stuff from one to the other... Not that I would, but I had often considered doing so, obviously misunderstanding your intent in all that duplicate information. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:I agree in principle - many recently deleted are not (imo) a dealbreaker, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I just posted a guideline at the top of the page which reads:
::LIMIT QUOTES TO 150 CHARACTERS (as most are below)
::LONGER QUOTES MAY BE SNIPPED OR DELETED!
:- which seems the max currently. (Only visible when editing, allcaps for max visibility/impact.)
:I also edited several existing long quotes into shorter, acceptable format - some of those were funny, and while changing others' quotes is not my preferred option, this is a wiki, and it's that or lose them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Edit Warring ==
I see GreyMario has taken it upon himself to remove quotes by the dozen, most of which had previously been added back after someone noticed their mysterious absence. Clearly your sense of humor is not everyone's or people wouldn't have to keep adding them back, could you just leave it be instead of editwarring? Can someone give us a revert, please? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:Except they were removed because they were unfunny by popular vote. People should really put it up to a vote when it comes to adding them back. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::I must have missed this, where did it happen? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::In general, I think the replacement of deleted quotes is more of a problem than their deletion. As long as they are added just once and deleted just once, we won't have an edit war even with conflicting views of humor. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, most of those votes were not funny. They were not even remotely close to my "mind like a +whatever trap+" quote, and it's hard to be worse than that and still funny. Anyway, edit warring=no, people should ask what happened to them and it then should be explained exactly what did happen. Personally, I think that they should be left on the quote archive, but not popping up on the main page for all to see.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 12:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions ==

Here are 6 quotes that were deleted after being added. I believe they are worth keeping - wouldn't have added them if I didn't, but one other user disagreed enough to delete them all. Opinions on any or all are requested.

:*Look, there's sentient lava outside, & the only survivor is issuing mandates to the empty halls. This isn't going to get better.
::Goddamn I am ''sick'' of this constant editwarring. If I went around removing everything I didn't think was funny the quotes page would be cut in half, but I try to respect other people's content and acknowlege other people's sense of humor. This was not a misquote originally, someone just shortened it into one, and butchered both the content and the english language in the process. "There's sentient lava outside" is perilously close to lolspeak. "There are roving clumps of sentient lava outside", on the other hand, is a mental picture that gets a laugh reaction from 4/5 folks I show it to. I'm putting it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 20:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Vengeful donut took this to my talk page for some reason, I'm responding here. Humor is a matter of taste, unlike most of the rest of the wiki, and one person shouldn't try and define it for everyone. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

:*On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human reading a dwarf fortress wiki. The human has '''no clue''' what is going on.

:*Seeing a dwarf give birth while sparring was scary, but worse was when she picked the child up & continued fighting.

:*The merchants won't leave because I killed their guys & I can't drown them because there's a shoe in the floodgate.

:*All I do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever to flood the central chamber, & the goblins start sorting themselves by density.

:*The mayor sent me to kill the crocodile that killed my last 3 characters - again... I think he's catching on that I want to kill him.
--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::It's worth noting that these are all misquotes. They have been modified from their original versions. Since these is a list of '''quotes''' rather than just '''jokes''' misquotes do not belong here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::IMO, we don't even credit the quotes so it's not ''that'' important to keep the original phrase intact. The quotes are here to add a funny aspect to the front page, it's not like we're quoting the President about some Important Matter. If a quote breaks the box, I say it's fine to shorten it until it fits, as long as the original spirit is kept. We could always ask the quote's author for their approval, if it's that important. Can we track the origin of those quotes? If not, let's edit them since nobody can prove they're actual quotes anyway. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If we're not going to pretend that we're quoting people, perhaps we should rename the page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::A bunch of sentences without any credits are not proper quotes so in fact, the Quotes page has never really been about quoting people, it's seen as a repository of funny quips about DF. Personally, I don't think it's important enough to start finding all the real authors and adding the authors to the quotes when they appear on the front page. We're not going to bicker about the definition of the word "Quote" and if it's a valid designation or not for that page, I'll leave that kind of debate for Wikipedia. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "quotes" were made up for that list anyway. My final opinion is this: The more sentences we have in that list the better, I don't mind if there is no source attribution. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 00:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::I like quote 2 (forum + wiki) so much that I'ld be willing to re-add it myself; don't care about the rest. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 15:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:'''Restore''' And I'll also echo Senso's sentiments on the matter. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== Signatures ==

Do we want to include signatures? ("Toady" and a few other notables being exceptions). Isn't that a bit against the anonymous/collective idea of a wiki? Doesn't that personalize the edits and hurt the overall process? (And risk turning this into a "look at me!" page?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:That sounds like a fine idea, if someone sees a quote with somebody's sinature, they can just delete the signature. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 18:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Redirects in Quotes ==

Do you guys really think we should have [[]]'s in quotes? They mights help a bit, but it seems to take away a bit of the vibe. Thoughts about taking them down?
:I think the links are appropriate for drawing in and directing new users. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Inappropriate Undo ==

While you are free to re-add a removed quote, removal is a call to review those quotes which were removed. Undo is a blatant violation of that, as it doesn't necessitate even *looking* at what was removed. As such, I am undoing the undo, and ask that if the person wishes to re-add any of the quotes that he deliberately re-add the ones he actually thinks are funny. (Do note I moved a couple around because it was easier instead of de-incrementing numbers). Also, re-adding necessitates a discussion on this page - please have one before re-adding. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
: I want them back, 4 of the 5 were funny as they were, and there's no need to trim them since they doesnt break the page layout. Actually, I find your undo of the undo annoying, since they were fine quotes. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::I deleted more than 5... =P And I moved some because it was easier than changing numbers. Which ones did you think were funny - I mean, we can have the discussion, but we need to have a discussion before they get re-added. (Also, the carp one is totally funnier with just the game quote) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Seriously, Guys ==

I forget DF for a few months and you remove almost an entire kilobyte of quotes, along with the stupid goatse one which, while awful, was long since victorious in the protracted and bitter war over whether it should stay and in what form. Yes, it's quite clear you don't like some quotes. Yes, anyone is allowed to remove quotes but it's almost always the same very few people that do so, and the rules are clearly designed in your favor(delete anything you want with no justification, but add things only once unless you can change the deleter's mind). Would it kill you to at least '''add''' a little content to this page alongside removing so much? If I decided the main page was ugly and REMOVED IT wouldn't that still be a loss of content? Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

::Corona688, you have argued that the current system for deleting and undeleting quotes is bad. You have asked people who have removed quotes to be constructive instead. Let's turn this request around: when it comes to the issue of quote policy, please be constructive instead. I am sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with your complaints about the current system. They are all valid. However, despite these shortcomings, nobody has come up with a better one. If we decided the current policy was bad and just removed it without replacement, we would be worse off. "''Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave?''". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I have '''already''' suggested '''several''' things before. If you think I have no ideas, you haven't been paying attention. For the record, here are some I've suggested before:
::::Don't delete quote content if you can't put something else in its place!
::::Reverse the process -- make deleting harder than adding.
::::Utilize a '''little''' self-control to realize that your personal preferences don't define funny for the entire world.
:::How's that? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't remove the goatsects one, and while i didn't find it funny, i did respect the consensus of the talk page regarding it. The one quote i did add was removed in like a month.
:However, removing stuff from this page is as important as adding stuff - both types of people are needed to ensure a quality page. Otherwise we end up either with lots of crappy quotes or very few quotes. So don't disparage one side of the equation - both are essential. That said, expecting the people adding things to be funnier wouldn't be too much to expect, would it? There's still a lot of not funny in the quote list, and a few that could be funny with a little editing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, we need both. Not many folks would bother adding quotes more than once as is though, so we're seeing a net loss of content. I don't think the primary deleters here represent the One And Only True Correct Sense Of Humor™®ⓒ, and the rules as is unfairly pit content creators against them. Almost nobody cares one way or another except about their own quotes, you can't expect a consensus to readd when a good one is deleted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:::We are not experiencing a net loss of content. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Of course not. Which is why the file keeps getting smaller. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Ok, that's enough ==

Squirrelloid, you have your own humor, but don't try to impose it on other people. If you don't find something funny doesn't mean you have to remove it.

You removed these 3 lines with your last edit :
* had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09
* Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
* Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones.

The last one is taken from an epic forum topic, the second one is funny because of the focus the dwarf have on olivine. The first one is from the dev log...

By the way, where is it written than quote MUST be funny ? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Re: Readding quotes
::One person is hardly consensus. Page policy:
:::"If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion."
:::"If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added."
::I certainly don't feel you've met the burden of that, and I certainly don't find those quotes funny.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::: Make it two, with corona, there's no definite number of people needed AFAIK --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Corona doesn't come down in favor of any particular quotes actually, nor did he contribute to the relevant discussion. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::By the time I find out about these massive content deletions it's usually weeks too late to do a darn thing. I'm not here continually. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

::Also, you can't just go re-instating an old version if there's multiple subsequent versions. You actually deleted new material.
::On those specific quotes. The Dev log quote sucks. The delivery is awful. There may be a good line with the same base material, but that is certainly not it.
::The second one is clearly not in-game, because its impossible to generate that, which severely detracts from its humor value.
::And I don't care how epic the thread was, the quote isn't at all interesting.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, YOUR modification were not funny. So I removed them. If you want them back, you have to do a call for opinion :) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which, my new quote or my modification of the carp one? If you want to *remove* either, by all means, its your right. But to re-add the old material requires consensus on each and every individual quote, not just reverting. Its a violation of page policy. So stop. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which you'll never, ever, ever get, and you know full well you'll never, ever, ever get. All it takes to break a consensus is you... The page policy is crafted carefully in your favor and you know it. Why don't YOU quit it? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Request for opinion - Deleted quote ==

Since we have someone not funny at all who try to impose is humor, or lack of, on us, and since the guideline are there, even if they are not really clear or useful as stated by corona866... Here's a request for opinion on deleted quote.

Here's the list, just add under it if you want them back, or not. That way, no one is going to cry. In 2 weeks, enough time for the regular contributor to see this topic, we could add them back or not. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
* ;-) --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

=== I had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09 ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The language is confused, and the sentence after the ellipsis is redundant with the first part. (If its shot off, of course its removed...) Basically, this is a horrible mess of a line, and since its actually a direct quote it can't be modified (although it could be snipped - i could be convinced the line through the ellipsis is worth keeping, but i'd need to be convinced) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::This sentence actually makes perfect sense. He had his toe shot off. He comments that it was able to be shot off because it was just narrow enough. I found this dev log funny when I read it. I don't see any reason not to re-add this one. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't get why toes being narrow lets you shoot it off with a crossbow. Not that funny I think. But, not terrible either. I wouldn't add it but I wouldn't kill it either. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

==="So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. That's like every fortress ever? There is nothing surprising, interesting, or amusing about this quote --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Another one that actually has some humor at times. I mean, really, you can't expect all the quotes to be grade A funny. This one does have some hilarity to it because it actually is possible to have insane impact on the entire world despite only running a single fortress. Such as when suddenly the entire Elven population seems to have dwindled due to massive wars with your fortress. I think it's a nice one that should be in the quotes. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
::Actually, I can expect all the quotes to be grade A funny. That's the whole point of the page policy as it stands - bad quotes get removed and only the good ones remain. Fighting for quotes you know to be subpar defeats this purpose. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::See my reply to your other post. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 07:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:I want this one in, obviously. The context is they'd killed their King by accident somehow, so they really did destroy all of dwarven civillization above and beyond what most games usually do. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:56, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Utterly boring, and clearly artificial since the game cannot generate that as a set of prefstrings. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is a good one. And Not artificial. This came from the dwarves that were generated randomly by ToadyOne to show off the new likes/dislikes/appearance/etc. It just so happened most of them liked olivine, a lot. Some liked it twice, and one crazy dwarf, Sarvesh, only liked it. And nothing else. I think it should be added back [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back. It's funny. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring, and are mermaids even butcherable? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Not the best. One of the few I don't much see a use for. Mainly because it'd be funnier if the creature in question were a different animal. Like a cat. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Don't like this one, myself. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...> ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The material could be reworked, but the current presentation is crap. Would favor a reworded version of the same material. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:I'd only be okay with this one if it weren't so utterly annoying. "What the lever did" would work just the same and wouldn't look as stupid. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny. I'd like it back. And no, neutering it doesn't make it funnier Shardok... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
::So it should instead say "If I ''remembered'' what the fucking lever did, I'd ''pull'' it!" Because plain and simple, what I am saying is that the &%^#*@! looks like shit. It's not to do with the Language. It's to do with that it uses a stupid way of presenting it by using the symbols instead. They look plain stupid and honestly shouldn't be necessary on the wiki. Even just normal * instead would look better, but I don't see the need to keep the symbols as they are. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== <nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki> Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Don't see the value in posting something that every single player has probably thought at least 10 times. Its not noteworthy, much less funny or interesting. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I think it is a good quote just because every single player has probably thought at least 10 times... It´s typical DF. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::But why does that make it quote-worthy? It is neither especially witty, noteworthy, or interesting. I mean, there's lots of typical DF things that make for very poor quotes. You'll notice they *aren't on this page*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I think there are more poor quotes *on this page*, but I don´t think this one would be one of them. Just my opinion, let´s see what others think. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ok, i definitely agree there are more poor quotes on the page. But every time i remove a handful someone throws a hissy fit. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::If there's protest every time you delete... well... think about it! --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Because some people just like to whine whenever something gets removed? I'd rather not see a 150 page quote list with maybe 30 that are worth keeping. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
::::::::And yet most people Would rather see more quotes, that aren't necessarily *great* quotes than to end up seeing the Exact same quotes over and over again. It gets boring when it shows the same ones you've seen day after day, even if each of them is a grade A quote. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 07:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:This follows a common logic that many people start to notice. It's nice to warn users with the quotes and they don't all have to be jokes. I think it should be added in[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny and true, so I think it deserves in. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Game Features: How much you ''want''? System Requirements: How much you ''got''? ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Dislike. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I liked this one. Not love, but liked. Let's have it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/Quote

2009-11-04T21:09:41Z

Shardok: /* If I remembered what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd pull it! */

== How to add quotes: ==

* Go to the line of the last quote.
* Add a line immediately after it (this should be before the closing }} brackets)
* type "|YOUR-QUOTE-HERE" on that line
:(The quote number is not functionally necessary, but it allows keeping track of how many quotes there are without counting)
* Look at the first line of the template
:It should look something like this:
<pre>{{Choose|c={{rand|37}}</pre>
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 37 to reflect the number of quotes in the list.
*Preview your reply to make sure nothing is broken (or someone will be able to see it on the main page before it gets fixed)
*Profit!
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion: 
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

== Screenshots ==
The [http://www.dfwk.ru/index.php/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 russian wiki] has made use of the system here to show random DF screenshots rather than quotes. I think this is a rather clever idea. Maybe we have a good spot where we could place something similar? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

: Neat Idea. We could have one quote and one screenshoot. But we should define a standard size for the screenshot. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::200x150 would make it fit the 800x600 curses, with proportional distortion all around, without taking up much in the way of page real estate. If the real estate is deemed not quite so valuable, then 400x300 would work even better, suffering half the overall distortion (but still maintaining a relatively small footprint, and keeping aspect ratio intact.) Unless we're happy with the smaller size I suggested, a page overhaul is going to be needed to find a place to put it, such that it doesn't make a jumble out of the rest of it. (Conversely, I think the 200x150 would fit very neatly in the space already allotted to one of the quotes.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:Also, it could easily be arranged so that quotes and screenshots are paired. That way each screenshot has an accompanying caption. It would take quite a bit of work to get images for the current ones, though. I guess we could start them off as random stuff and switch them out as we go. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:: How does one add screenshots? -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 06:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which part don't you get? Saving screenshot, uploading image, adding it to the main page?
:::Assuming you mean the last bit - see [[Template talk:Sg]] - there should be some better form of documentation for [[Main page]] shouldn't there![[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 09:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== "[B]loats" ==

For what it's worth, the nowiki formatting around square bracketed 'B' in the Toady quote about boats was simply in the interests of quoting accuracy; the original word was not capitalized and I still have that kind of formatting in my heart from college paper citations. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. It looked to me like a weird, failed boats/bloats pun. I don't think it really matters; you can change it back if you like. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:19, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you! And done. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Quote removal ==

Say, why was the "interrupted by carp" quote removed? I loved that one. --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Blame Savok, he thought it was unfunny. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:22, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

And regarding VengefulDonut stripping off that last one, PTTG's quote was simply hilarious. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:19, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Thinking on this some more, the idea that anyone can just reverse a quote at their leisure strikes me as unusual. If a quote is an obvious spam, that's one thing; if a quote is something that ''you'' don't think of as funny, I think there should be some sort of consensus system involved. There are at least a couple existing quotes that I don't find funny in the slightest (Spiders Everywhere, you've been processed, GreyMario's), but I don't remove them. --[[User:JT|JT]]

My 2☼ on the subject: 
Unless a quote is offensively directed at a particular user/person, I don't see how there are any grounds for removal. 
If it is, it's perfectly acceptable for the addressed person to remove it, if they so choose. 
Additionally, you may remove quotes of yourself, whether or not they're offensive, regardless of who added the quote. 
In all cases, it's the sole responsibility of the addressed person to remove a quote, not someone else. 
I think that makes sense.. but perhaps I'm too far off base? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:When anyone is able to add a quote at their leisure, we will naturally end up with plenty of quotes that aren't funny. If anyone is able to remove a quote at their leisure, quotes that aren't funny will disappear. This is parallel to the wikipedia editing process in general, and I think this kind of process has decent results. Although I am open to other proposals.
:On the topic of racy jokes: I'm sure there are plenty of group-targeted jokes that could be stated in DF terms that would be very funny; just pick a group, a metaphor, and a stereotype. But even if you tell a member of that group to grow a thicker skin or to stop taking themselves seriously or learn to take a joke, it doesn't turn the joke from something alienating to something entertaining. In the right context, those kinds of jokes can be very funny even to those on the butt end of them. Standup comedians succeed or fail based on their ability to create it. But I don't think that the front page is the right context. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:24, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

::Unless its blantantly offensive I don't think "unfunny" is a reason to remove a quote, we each have our own sense of humour, such debate should be placed here on the discussion page imo. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Bleh. I'd like to, but nobody answers most discussion page debates in reasonable time. If we become more regularly active in discussion page debates (which isn't hard - we've got several that any experienced player can add to), we might be able to do that. As it is, the responses are usually at least a few days, often months apart. And then, occasionally, we get one that has five people with fifteen comments in a day or two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

As I've said before, if you want to revert those of my deletes that you really think should stay, that's fine. The way I see it, and the way some have said before me, anybody can, if they think it's funny enough, add a quote to the page. Of course, we will get some pretty poor quotes that way, so anyone can, if they dislike it enough, delete a quote from that page. If an edit war occurs, we can take it to the talk page (with the war attention, we'll actually have commenters), where it can be resolved. We Are Not Wikipedia. We're too small for that; everyone knows everyone else and anyone can monitor all edits if they have a little time to spend. 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], rambling at 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

== [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19686.msg206978#msg206978 Too untasteful?] ==

I found this on the forums:
<div style="width: 12em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' 
Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching</div>
For? Against? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. DF has people exploding in gore. Besides, these words are in the game anyway.
-- [[User:InquisitorSaturn|InquisitorSaturn]] 01:44, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. Lets be honest; how many people are likely to come to this wiki that aren't mature enough to enjoy a little mature humor. If anything people are more likely to complain that it didn't make them laugh then that they are worried that kids might see it. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 01:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nobody gives a fuck about the kids, man. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

For - Very funny and clever --[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 17:33, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Against. I think it might be funny once or twice, but it is not necessarily something that I want to see on the front page for hours until the quote changes again. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 10:26 June 14 (MST)

:Mmmm... against. When there were 2 quotes on the page, maybe. But now that there's only 1, I'd rather not have this be "representative" of any DF experience, when it's simply not. In fact, it has nothing to do with DF - it's just crude. (Not that that's a bad thing - it just has nothing to do with DF.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Multi-Line Quotes ==

I assumed your multi-line quote was an error because it rendered incorrectly when it appeared on http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote , and did so again when you restored the original. I've re-re-restored it in the interests of peace but I do note that the text extends outside the box and one line actually appears below the box. I'm less certain whether it appears this way on the main page. Perhaps we need a different way to enter multi-line quotes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:The quote that's causing problems is kinda long, either way. How about we just bonk it on the head?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:15, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::But it's funny. :( --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

:Just out of curiosity, what browser? It appears just fine in Firefox 2. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:39, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Firefox 3. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:My multi-line quote (shown below) doesn't appear to break anything (browser used: Firefox 3). --[[User:Beerdude26|Beerdude26]] 15:26, 22 January 2009 (EST)

<blockquote>
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"

'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
</blockquote>

== Okay wtf who broke shit where. ==

On the main page, the second random quote is just a '. WHAT GIVES? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:I can't find any recent changes to the code of the selector, and given that the first selector works, it's hard to blame a syntax error either. The mainpage does a weird thing to guarantee the quotes are different, passing |1 to the page as a parameter or...something. Someone who knows wikicode may know what's going on. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:13, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The problem is a bit deeper. [[template:rand]] and [[template:rand2]] use the mod function inside a #expr to mod the current timestamp and return a number in a specified range. The mod function is returning negative values for large inputs (this is a bug). Since it seems I can't guarantee a positive number will have a positive mod, I don't know how to modify the templates to make sure they keep returning positive numbers. Smaller inputs would be nice, but I need it to vary with time, and those are the ones that are blowing it up. Also, I don't have absolute value or any binary number operations, so those methods are out. Absolute value would be available with a newer version of parser functions, but convincing [[user:senso|Senso]] is an obstacle there. I'm really not sure how to remedy this. Anyone have ideas? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::: I say divide the end result before modulusing by 4. That'll still give pseudo-random numbers, just less often, and might work until a better fix rears its not-so-ugly head. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::: <s>Good idea. I'll try it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::: Didn't work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::: Feel free to fool around with [[template:rand]] and push a fix if you can find one. Just make sure to preview. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Ah well, it was worth a shot. I'll see what I can come up with in the [[Template:Sandbox|sandbox]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:31, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::<s>UPDATE: It appears using <tt><nowiki>{{#expr: ((({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} / 1024) + {{CURRENTDAY}} + {{CURRENTMONTH}}) mod {{{1|100}}}) + 1}}</nowiki></tt> seems to produce positive numbers for now. I'll go update [[Template:Rand2]] and see if it works.</s> <s>So much for that, but at least it was returning positive numbers. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::::Okay, I blame certain things being slow for the fact that it works over in the Sandbox but not in the Main Page/Quote template. :S But the good news is, it's at least producing a result over at the sandbox. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Can you use an <nowiki> {{ #ifexpr: {{{num}}} >= 0 | {{{num}}} | {{ #expr: {{{num}}} * -1 }} }} </nowiki> to replace abs? (I may have the syntax slightly wrong.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::Good call, Maximus. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:04, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::::You know, I thought of that just last night but was too busy falling asleep. :( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::::I stole it off your desk.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:06, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Here we go again! It's started displaying the telltale ' again. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST) UPDATE: It's just gone away again. Might be worth a try to check the conditions next time it does it D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:08, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::Should be fixed now. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== What's This Jreengus Stuff About, Anyway? ==

Googling it just gets me pages telling me it's funny for those in the know somehow. If any place ought to have an explanation it's the wiki. That's what it's there for! :) --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:05, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Kobolds speak gibberish. The code that named an event allowed the kobolds to name it (when they won? maybe.), and that caused the name of an event to sometimes be a single word of gibberish. Toady mentioned that somewhere in some part of the dev notes.
:That's it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal. ==

Haaaaawhaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Awesome. We need more quotes that are as funny as this. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:48, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:How many people can understand dwarven without dictionary? :) Anyway, the quote is still funny as is. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 12:13, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Long quotes ==

"Engraved on the wall is a masterfully designed image of a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf mining out a wall." Yes this is a long quote but it's also funny, why ditch it? I didn't see any long quotes breaking the mainpage the way multi-line quotes did. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:They make the main page look like crap by stretching the quote box and pushing down everything else. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Surely there are other places to put funny things. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Not really, unless you mean 'keep this stuff off the wiki'. No, quotes aren't a big deal. They're just fun, i.e. 'the entire point'. ;p The Quote_Archive is an obvious aging relic, and ought to go anyway since there's no sense having multiple, separate pages of slightly different functionality and identical content patchily duplicating each other. I wonder if the quote wikicode could be done the other way around... I might play around on my talk page and see if I can build a useful something. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::The Quote Archive was originally created as a place for quotes to go to never be deleted, so that it wouldn't be that bad if someone lost a quote from Main Page/Quote. When I created it, I didn't realize the effort it would take to update it, so I'm going to go over there now and clean it up, making it all plaintext.
:::Also, I concur with Vengeful that the long quotes are overly ugly on the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:35, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::::Not arguing with that. I usually run screens at a high resolution so I didn't notice the stretching myself. I do think multiple quote pages is pointless though, 'specially considering folk like me will happen upon them and helpfully transfer stuff from one to the other... Not that I would, but I had often considered doing so, obviously misunderstanding your intent in all that duplicate information. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:I agree in principle - many recently deleted are not (imo) a dealbreaker, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I just posted a guideline at the top of the page which reads:
::LIMIT QUOTES TO 150 CHARACTERS (as most are below)
::LONGER QUOTES MAY BE SNIPPED OR DELETED!
:- which seems the max currently. (Only visible when editing, allcaps for max visibility/impact.)
:I also edited several existing long quotes into shorter, acceptable format - some of those were funny, and while changing others' quotes is not my preferred option, this is a wiki, and it's that or lose them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Edit Warring ==
I see GreyMario has taken it upon himself to remove quotes by the dozen, most of which had previously been added back after someone noticed their mysterious absence. Clearly your sense of humor is not everyone's or people wouldn't have to keep adding them back, could you just leave it be instead of editwarring? Can someone give us a revert, please? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:Except they were removed because they were unfunny by popular vote. People should really put it up to a vote when it comes to adding them back. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::I must have missed this, where did it happen? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::In general, I think the replacement of deleted quotes is more of a problem than their deletion. As long as they are added just once and deleted just once, we won't have an edit war even with conflicting views of humor. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, most of those votes were not funny. They were not even remotely close to my "mind like a +whatever trap+" quote, and it's hard to be worse than that and still funny. Anyway, edit warring=no, people should ask what happened to them and it then should be explained exactly what did happen. Personally, I think that they should be left on the quote archive, but not popping up on the main page for all to see.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 12:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions ==

Here are 6 quotes that were deleted after being added. I believe they are worth keeping - wouldn't have added them if I didn't, but one other user disagreed enough to delete them all. Opinions on any or all are requested.

:*Look, there's sentient lava outside, & the only survivor is issuing mandates to the empty halls. This isn't going to get better.
::Goddamn I am ''sick'' of this constant editwarring. If I went around removing everything I didn't think was funny the quotes page would be cut in half, but I try to respect other people's content and acknowlege other people's sense of humor. This was not a misquote originally, someone just shortened it into one, and butchered both the content and the english language in the process. "There's sentient lava outside" is perilously close to lolspeak. "There are roving clumps of sentient lava outside", on the other hand, is a mental picture that gets a laugh reaction from 4/5 folks I show it to. I'm putting it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 20:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Vengeful donut took this to my talk page for some reason, I'm responding here. Humor is a matter of taste, unlike most of the rest of the wiki, and one person shouldn't try and define it for everyone. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

:*On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human reading a dwarf fortress wiki. The human has '''no clue''' what is going on.

:*Seeing a dwarf give birth while sparring was scary, but worse was when she picked the child up & continued fighting.

:*The merchants won't leave because I killed their guys & I can't drown them because there's a shoe in the floodgate.

:*All I do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever to flood the central chamber, & the goblins start sorting themselves by density.

:*The mayor sent me to kill the crocodile that killed my last 3 characters - again... I think he's catching on that I want to kill him.
--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::It's worth noting that these are all misquotes. They have been modified from their original versions. Since these is a list of '''quotes''' rather than just '''jokes''' misquotes do not belong here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::IMO, we don't even credit the quotes so it's not ''that'' important to keep the original phrase intact. The quotes are here to add a funny aspect to the front page, it's not like we're quoting the President about some Important Matter. If a quote breaks the box, I say it's fine to shorten it until it fits, as long as the original spirit is kept. We could always ask the quote's author for their approval, if it's that important. Can we track the origin of those quotes? If not, let's edit them since nobody can prove they're actual quotes anyway. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If we're not going to pretend that we're quoting people, perhaps we should rename the page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::A bunch of sentences without any credits are not proper quotes so in fact, the Quotes page has never really been about quoting people, it's seen as a repository of funny quips about DF. Personally, I don't think it's important enough to start finding all the real authors and adding the authors to the quotes when they appear on the front page. We're not going to bicker about the definition of the word "Quote" and if it's a valid designation or not for that page, I'll leave that kind of debate for Wikipedia. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "quotes" were made up for that list anyway. My final opinion is this: The more sentences we have in that list the better, I don't mind if there is no source attribution. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 00:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::I like quote 2 (forum + wiki) so much that I'ld be willing to re-add it myself; don't care about the rest. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 15:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:'''Restore''' And I'll also echo Senso's sentiments on the matter. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== Signatures ==

Do we want to include signatures? ("Toady" and a few other notables being exceptions). Isn't that a bit against the anonymous/collective idea of a wiki? Doesn't that personalize the edits and hurt the overall process? (And risk turning this into a "look at me!" page?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:That sounds like a fine idea, if someone sees a quote with somebody's sinature, they can just delete the signature. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 18:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Redirects in Quotes ==

Do you guys really think we should have [[]]'s in quotes? They mights help a bit, but it seems to take away a bit of the vibe. Thoughts about taking them down?
:I think the links are appropriate for drawing in and directing new users. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Inappropriate Undo ==

While you are free to re-add a removed quote, removal is a call to review those quotes which were removed. Undo is a blatant violation of that, as it doesn't necessitate even *looking* at what was removed. As such, I am undoing the undo, and ask that if the person wishes to re-add any of the quotes that he deliberately re-add the ones he actually thinks are funny. (Do note I moved a couple around because it was easier instead of de-incrementing numbers). Also, re-adding necessitates a discussion on this page - please have one before re-adding. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
: I want them back, 4 of the 5 were funny as they were, and there's no need to trim them since they doesnt break the page layout. Actually, I find your undo of the undo annoying, since they were fine quotes. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::I deleted more than 5... =P And I moved some because it was easier than changing numbers. Which ones did you think were funny - I mean, we can have the discussion, but we need to have a discussion before they get re-added. (Also, the carp one is totally funnier with just the game quote) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Seriously, Guys ==

I forget DF for a few months and you remove almost an entire kilobyte of quotes, along with the stupid goatse one which, while awful, was long since victorious in the protracted and bitter war over whether it should stay and in what form. Yes, it's quite clear you don't like some quotes. Yes, anyone is allowed to remove quotes but it's almost always the same very few people that do so, and the rules are clearly designed in your favor(delete anything you want with no justification, but add things only once unless you can change the deleter's mind). Would it kill you to at least '''add''' a little content to this page alongside removing so much? If I decided the main page was ugly and REMOVED IT wouldn't that still be a loss of content? Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

::Corona688, you have argued that the current system for deleting and undeleting quotes is bad. You have asked people who have removed quotes to be constructive instead. Let's turn this request around: when it comes to the issue of quote policy, please be constructive instead. I am sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with your complaints about the current system. They are all valid. However, despite these shortcomings, nobody has come up with a better one. If we decided the current policy was bad and just removed it without replacement, we would be worse off. "''Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave?''". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I have '''already''' suggested '''several''' things before. If you think I have no ideas, you haven't been paying attention. For the record, here are some I've suggested before:
::::Don't delete quote content if you can't put something else in its place!
::::Reverse the process -- make deleting harder than adding.
::::Utilize a '''little''' self-control to realize that your personal preferences don't define funny for the entire world.
:::How's that? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't remove the goatsects one, and while i didn't find it funny, i did respect the consensus of the talk page regarding it. The one quote i did add was removed in like a month.
:However, removing stuff from this page is as important as adding stuff - both types of people are needed to ensure a quality page. Otherwise we end up either with lots of crappy quotes or very few quotes. So don't disparage one side of the equation - both are essential. That said, expecting the people adding things to be funnier wouldn't be too much to expect, would it? There's still a lot of not funny in the quote list, and a few that could be funny with a little editing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, we need both. Not many folks would bother adding quotes more than once as is though, so we're seeing a net loss of content. I don't think the primary deleters here represent the One And Only True Correct Sense Of Humor™®ⓒ, and the rules as is unfairly pit content creators against them. Almost nobody cares one way or another except about their own quotes, you can't expect a consensus to readd when a good one is deleted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:::We are not experiencing a net loss of content. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Of course not. Which is why the file keeps getting smaller. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Ok, that's enough ==

Squirrelloid, you have your own humor, but don't try to impose it on other people. If you don't find something funny doesn't mean you have to remove it.

You removed these 3 lines with your last edit :
* had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09
* Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
* Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones.

The last one is taken from an epic forum topic, the second one is funny because of the focus the dwarf have on olivine. The first one is from the dev log...

By the way, where is it written than quote MUST be funny ? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Re: Readding quotes
::One person is hardly consensus. Page policy:
:::"If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion."
:::"If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added."
::I certainly don't feel you've met the burden of that, and I certainly don't find those quotes funny.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::: Make it two, with corona, there's no definite number of people needed AFAIK --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Corona doesn't come down in favor of any particular quotes actually, nor did he contribute to the relevant discussion. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::By the time I find out about these massive content deletions it's usually weeks too late to do a darn thing. I'm not here continually. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

::Also, you can't just go re-instating an old version if there's multiple subsequent versions. You actually deleted new material.
::On those specific quotes. The Dev log quote sucks. The delivery is awful. There may be a good line with the same base material, but that is certainly not it.
::The second one is clearly not in-game, because its impossible to generate that, which severely detracts from its humor value.
::And I don't care how epic the thread was, the quote isn't at all interesting.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, YOUR modification were not funny. So I removed them. If you want them back, you have to do a call for opinion :) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which, my new quote or my modification of the carp one? If you want to *remove* either, by all means, its your right. But to re-add the old material requires consensus on each and every individual quote, not just reverting. Its a violation of page policy. So stop. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which you'll never, ever, ever get, and you know full well you'll never, ever, ever get. All it takes to break a consensus is you... The page policy is crafted carefully in your favor and you know it. Why don't YOU quit it? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Request for opinion - Deleted quote ==

Since we have someone not funny at all who try to impose is humor, or lack of, on us, and since the guideline are there, even if they are not really clear or useful as stated by corona866... Here's a request for opinion on deleted quote.

Here's the list, just add under it if you want them back, or not. That way, no one is going to cry. In 2 weeks, enough time for the regular contributor to see this topic, we could add them back or not. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
* ;-) --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

=== I had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09 ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The language is confused, and the sentence after the ellipsis is redundant with the first part. (If its shot off, of course its removed...) Basically, this is a horrible mess of a line, and since its actually a direct quote it can't be modified (although it could be snipped - i could be convinced the line through the ellipsis is worth keeping, but i'd need to be convinced) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::This sentence actually makes perfect sense. He had his toe shot off. He comments that it was able to be shot off because it was just narrow enough. I found this dev log funny when I read it. I don't see any reason not to re-add this one. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't get why toes being narrow lets you shoot it off with a crossbow. Not that funny I think. But, not terrible either. I wouldn't add it but I wouldn't kill it either. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

==="So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. That's like every fortress ever? There is nothing surprising, interesting, or amusing about this quote --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Another one that actually has some humor at times. I mean, really, you can't expect all the quotes to be grade A funny. This one does have some hilarity to it because it actually is possible to have insane impact on the entire world despite only running a single fortress. Such as when suddenly the entire Elven population seems to have dwindled due to massive wars with your fortress. I think it's a nice one that should be in the quotes. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I want this one in, obviously. The context is they'd killed their King by accident somehow, so they really did destroy all of dwarven civillization above and beyond what most games usually do. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:56, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Utterly boring, and clearly artificial since the game cannot generate that as a set of prefstrings. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is a good one. And Not artificial. This came from the dwarves that were generated randomly by ToadyOne to show off the new likes/dislikes/appearance/etc. It just so happened most of them liked olivine, a lot. Some liked it twice, and one crazy dwarf, Sarvesh, only liked it. And nothing else. I think it should be added back [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back. It's funny. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring, and are mermaids even butcherable? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Not the best. One of the few I don't much see a use for. Mainly because it'd be funnier if the creature in question were a different animal. Like a cat. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:Don't like this one, myself. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...> ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The material could be reworked, but the current presentation is crap. Would favor a reworded version of the same material. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:I'd only be okay with this one if it weren't so utterly annoying. "What the lever did" would work just the same and wouldn't look as stupid. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny. I'd like it back. And no, neutering it doesn't make it funnier Shardok... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
::So it should instead say "If I ''remembered'' what the fucking lever did, I'd ''pull'' it!" Because plain and simple, what I am saying is that the &%^#*@! looks like shit. It's not to do with the Language. It's to do with that it uses a stupid way of presenting it by using the symbols instead. They look plain stupid and honestly shouldn't be necessary on the wiki. Even just normal * instead would look better, but I don't see the need to keep the symbols as they are. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== <nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki> Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Don't see the value in posting something that every single player has probably thought at least 10 times. Its not noteworthy, much less funny or interesting. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I think it is a good quote just because every single player has probably thought at least 10 times... It´s typical DF. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::But why does that make it quote-worthy? It is neither especially witty, noteworthy, or interesting. I mean, there's lots of typical DF things that make for very poor quotes. You'll notice they *aren't on this page*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I think there are more poor quotes *on this page*, but I don´t think this one would be one of them. Just my opinion, let´s see what others think. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ok, i definitely agree there are more poor quotes on the page. But every time i remove a handful someone throws a hissy fit. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::If there's protest every time you delete... well... think about it! --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:This follows a common logic that many people start to notice. It's nice to warn users with the quotes and they don't all have to be jokes. I think it should be added in[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's funny and true, so I think it deserves in. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

=== Game Features: How much you ''want''? System Requirements: How much you ''got''? ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Dislike. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
:I liked this one. Not love, but liked. Let's have it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stupid dwarf trick

2009-10-30T23:09:22Z

Shardok:

== Magma pumping ==
Thanks for the update [[user:Cizra|Cizra]], I've modified it to be more encyclopedic. :) I think more research/verification of which parts of [[screw pump|pumps]] need to be magma-proof is warranted. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:23, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

== Obsidian Factory ==
Any ideas on how I would get started with this? I actually have a magma pipe near some natural lakes. Do I have the makings of an Obsidian Factory? -- [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 10:59, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
:So you have an unlimited supply of magma. Is your water supply also unlimited? If not, you may want to save some for other things. But yes, that's really all you need, water and magma. It also helps to have bauxite and steel. You have two options: bring the magma to the water (via floodgates or pumps) or to bring the water to the magma (by pumps or floodgates or even buckets -which may be recommended it you have a less plentiful supply of water, as even one bucket of water will turn a square of magma into obsidian). Just be careful not to flood your fortress with anything or leave magma lying around where dwarves will foolishly walk on it and catch on fire before fleeing to their bed in the barracks to "recover". Other safety tips from my experiments with obsidian farming: Magma flows up in magma pipes up to the top of the pipe, so watch out if you're filling in, then mining out the pipe. If you are trying to drop water from a bucket onto magma, it needs to be at least two z-levels above, not just one; this is just the way it works. Good luck. Soon your giant tower made of obsidian blocks will rise majestically into the sky, I'm sure. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 11:48, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
::You don't actually need any bauxite or adamantine to start an obsidian factory. What I did was: build a pump on top of the magmapimp to take magme out of the pipe and pump it into the wall. In this wall create a tunnel to an underground area that is at least 2z levels high. (Use channel to channel through one floor. Ideally the bottom of this area should be one z-level above your sourced water (a brook in my case). The pump only needs the screw and the pipes of iron or steel, everything else can be stone. Don't make the magma tunnel too long since magma will be very slow. Create one or more windmills (depending on wind strength) above and connect one axle to a switch far a way (preferable in your fort), turn the axle of and connect the windmill(s) with the pump. Shield the pump with walls, so the magma will only run into the tunnel and nothing else aruond. Build a pump on the water source, create a channel for the water into the underground area, connect the pump with a waterwheel (but also turned of yet by a lever). Make a water exit with a floodgate, so the water can run back into the river if you open that, connect the floodgate also to a lever in your for (you should have 3 levels in your fort). Shield the whole area from dwarven acess by walls/moats/doors so once you got it ready and every dwarf is outside you can lock it. So no dwarf runs there to drink (like mine did) and catch fire. Pull the water pump level, fill the area with water. Turn the pump of. Pull the magma pump level, let some magma drop down into that area, as the first tiles will transform to obsidian, having a 2 level space will allow the magma to travel over it to more water further away. Never have too much magma, or you could end up with a permanent magma pool on top of the obsidian, you don't want that. So turn the magma pump soon enough off (get some experience, how much magma you can take in one shot)... wait until there are only 1/7 magma tiles left, wait further until everything is cooled down. Push the 3rd level attached to the floodgate to remove access water (there is likely some resevoir on the far end from the pipe left), wait for the water to be gone. Now you can open acess to dwarves, you might wand to channel some obsidian blocks to free some locked water. Or you just can let some of it it be trapped to be reused for the next go. Mine all obsdian. Rinse and repeat. However I found once I started to mine around to create my obsidian factory, I found so much obsidian in that area, I question how useful the whole construction is after all. --[[User:Catpaw|Catpaw]] 10:06, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

One advantage to molding a building as opposed to building it from the ground up is that as it's technically considered earth, you can smooth and engrave the rock, before building even more valuable floors on top of it; the obsidian produced from the mining will still be useful for making swords/doors/other valuable items.

=="I dinna say we wurren't crazy!"==
Instead of digging channels, dig fields of ramps. Its safe to dig an entire flat field of ramps at once, and very quick to remove the ramps(with 'd' 'z') after. Do that for a few layers and you'll end up with a pit containing untold rocks stacked on top of each other. Put a mason shop down there and a legendary mason'll make blocks faster than you'll believe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

==It's a Trap==
Who honestly considers this Stupid Dwarf Trick worthy? After I alphabetized it in properly I noticed that it really seems to not fit with the concept of a Stupid Dwarf Trick. Okay, so you get a little excessive building traps on Every single tile? It's not useless, and it's not exceedingly hard. So what makes it stupid? [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

40d:Stupid dwarf trick

2009-10-30T23:07:11Z

Shardok:

{{D for Dwarf}}

A '''stupid dwarf trick''' is any project that that requires a large amount time and effort, for little or no practical benefit. They exist only as a challenge for experienced players.

==Adventure Mode Fortress==

Build a fortress specifically for exploring in [[adventure mode]]. You can either make a nasty monster-filled challenge, or a Smörgåsbord of masterpiece steel weapons and armor. Possibly both. A [[chasm]], underground [[river]], or [[hidden fun stuff]] can ensure the fortress is occupied.

'''Difficulty:''' The sky's the limit.

'''Usefulness:''' Not applicable.

==Alarm Clock==
Are your soldiers all sound asleep while blood soaks the walls? No need to deconstruct their beds one by one, ''if'' you bought the Dwarf Wakey 3000! Simply a solitary floor tile balanced on a support, one or more can be toppled with the pull of a lever to produce an earth-shaking racket that'll have them leaping for their axes!

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Low.

==Aqueduct Power==
If your river's a long way away from your fortress, building a trans-map axle may be less efficient than building an aqueduct and pump stack driven by waterwheels in the river. The pump stack raises it to the height of your fort, where it flows through the long, long aqueduct and drives waterwheels on the other end. Getting the water pressure just right so it powers your waterwheel without flooding the fort can be [[Fun]]. Diagonal channels make good pressure reducers.

'''Difficulty:''' High. Lots of stone, lots of engineering, lots of dangerous outdoor work, lots of trial-and-error for the receiving waterwheels.

'''Usefulness:''' High. As much water and power as you want, wherever you want, whenever you want.

==Aquifer Power==
Aquifers can be a resource of immense power. If you have two levels of aquifer, you can generate a continuous flow by draining one level of aquifer into another and plant waterwheels above it. One stream can power a lot of wheels.

'''Difficulty:''' High. Anything to do with draining aquifers is very [[Fun]].

'''Usefulness:''' High. The lowly windmill pales in utility compared to a waterwheel.

==Artificial Waterfall==
To keep the waterfall going, you need a [[pump]] stack, preferably powered by a [[windmill]] or [[water wheel]].

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Dwarves love [[waterfall]]s. Putting a waterfall in your [[meeting hall]] will give your dwarves good [[thought]]s, although it can significantly lower framerate.

==[[Ballista]] Battery==
Overlap a few ballistas to completely cover a narrow corridor. There is an unavoidable risk of your operators wandering into the line of fire.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. If you insist on highly-trained operators with high-quality ballistas, it gets harder.

'''Usefulness:''' A complicated and dangerous way to defend a single corridor. Ultimately extremely effective. Sometimes.

==Bridge-a-pult==
A bridge that opens outwards, to fling enemies away. Ideally, they land in a very nasty place.

'''Difficulty:''' The hard part is the nasty place they get flung to.

'''Usefulness:''' There are a far more effective ways to defend a fortress, but few are as entertaining.

==Dam==
Build a wall across a riverbed to stop the flow of water. Floodgates optional.

Bonus: excavate a reservoir and a lower river valley
Bonus: build a control center to control the water flow
Bonus: draw your entire energy from a power station within

'''Difficulty:''' On a map that freezes in the winter, this is easy. Otherwise, very difficult. (See Moses effect, below, or simply drop ridiculous amounts of stone in with orchestrated [[cave-in]]s.) But with the bonuses it gets a bit harder.

'''Usefulness:''' Depends on how much bonuses you fullfill. The Power station is obvious, and with the control room you could build up a nice defense system.

==Doberman Launcher==
Whenever a dog or cat gives birth, stuff all the kittens and puppies in one cage in your entryway. Link this cage to a pressure plate beside it. Should your last lines of defense be breached, goblins will step on it and in the next instant be torn apart by dozens of goblin-seeking hostiles and distracted by dozens of surplus targets. The trap actually going off will probably be very bad for your framerate. Bonus: Train all dogs inside as wardogs when they mature. Super bonus: Make it a Bear Trap. MEGADWARF bonus: Combine with a drowning chamber and carp tarp.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Medium, potentially fortress-saving

==Drowning Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' You can kill prisoners, useless peasants, irate nobles, hammerers, untrainable animals, or anything else.

==[[Computing|Dwarfputer]] Complex==
A big mess of fluid and/or machine logic full of hatches, floodgates, gears, pumps, etc. and powered by waterwheels, windmills, or useless idle dwarves. Hook it up to doors, bridges, and traps.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium to high, depending on what you want to build. You'll want to build for very high water flow if you have more than a few fluid gates.

'''Usefulness:''' Your mechanics and architects will level up very fast. Manual pumps give something for your haulers to do and makes them stronger. Try and make a clock to trigger different mechanisms in different seasons. See if enemies actually blunder into your intricate traps. Watch all hell break loose as water freezes.

==Dwarven Apartment Complex==
Essentially, one of the many possible [[mega constructions]] dedicated to providing dwarves with rooms so high above the ground they get vertigo. Every floor must have plenty of rooms of at least 2x3 squares, with walls and a door surrounding this. Oh, and it has to go up as many Z-levels as possible. For extra credit, decide on what the top story will be (i.e. as many levels up as you deem possible, minus one so you can build a roof) and turn this into a Royal bedroom for a [[noble]], complete with gem windows, artifact/masterwork components, and untold numbers of armour stands and weapon racks. And then build some shorter but wider apartment buildings nearby to turn your fortress into essentially a giant fist with extended middle finger.

'''Difficulty:''' Low, although the walls around the rooms can be a bit fiddly due to the impossibility of building walls on constructed floors (yes, an extra credit challenge is to do this without using Remove Construction).

'''Usefulness:''' Limited, because you could just dig the things underground and save yourself the hassle.

==Execution Tower==
Just a tall tower to chuck your captives to their deaths.

'''Difficulty:''' Easy.

'''Usefulness:''' Lets you dispose of prisoners, and claim expensive silk, meltable iron, and (eventually) useful bones. Also highly amusing.

==Flood the World==
'''Difficulty:''' High danger. Will kill your frame rate.

'''Usefulness:''' Will prevent any sieges, at least. Or anything else, save for the occasional invasion of sociopathic [[Carp]].

==Gladiator Arena==
Station some soldiers at the bottom of a shallow [[Activity_zone#Pit/Pond|pit]] and dump your captives in. You can also use dangerous animals instead of soldiers. For extra points, put the prisoners in cages connected to ramps underneath the arena floor. One lever will open both the cage and a hatch above the ramp.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate, but time consuming. Some danger depending on the relative skill of your soldiers and the danger of the captive.

'''Usefulness:''' The most difficult way to dispose of prisoners. It does give your soldiers a little bit of experience.

==Glass Ceiling==
Sick of having your dwarfs vomit all the time when they go out to retrieve loot or lumber? Despair no more! Build an almost-infinitely tall tower, and then put a glass floor on the highest level, spanning the entire map. For extra kicks, make a mechanism that will crash the entire thing upon the heads of the one goblin horde that manages to get through all your other deathtraps.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium. Very grueling.

'''Usefulness:''' Low.

==Greenhouse==
A [[greenhouse]] is just a farm with the the ceiling channeled out from above. This lets you grow outdoor plants without venturing above ground. For maximum style, build the greenhouse above ground and cover it with a glass roof to keep your farmers safe.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Surface plants can be grown at any time of the year, and some are more useful than those available underground - for example, [[sun berry|sun berries]] can be brewed into valuable [[Sunshine]], and [[whip vine]]s can be milled into superior quality flour. Having greater food and booze diversity can also keep your dwarves happier.

==Hammer of [[Armok]]==
A gigantic hammer made out of pure steel and/or valuables looming over your fortress entrance ready to smite those foolish enough to lay a siege on you. Also, gives you a psychological advantage over the traders who unload their goods under it. Attach to a lever-linked support for quicksmiting, or any other single-tile collapse mechanism. BONUS: Cover it with blood.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. Depends on size, materials and magma's existence, though. Make it a gold hammer menacing with adamantine spikes, if you're going for high quality.

'''Usefulness:''' Low-medium. 10x10 size is minimum for practical effectiveness. 30x30 hammer extending handles length from your entrance actually works against sieges.

==Ice tower==

Building a huge tower is easy. To make things more [[fun]], make one out of some exotic material, like [[glass]], [[ice]], [[gold]], or [[soap]].

'''Difficulty:''' Low. You need to be on a freezing map to pull off an ice tower.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

=="I dinna say we wurren't crazy!"==

Build a huge room with nothing in it except rock pillars, then dig channels on the levels above and below it until you have a ridiculously huge room ten Z-levels in height. Inspired by Irregular Webcomic.

'''Difficulty:''' Mainly in putting up with the incessant channelling, and avoiding dropping large chunks of ceiling onto the floor from five levels up.

'''Usefulness:''' Negative, due to the insane amounts of space it takes up.

==It's A TRAP!==
It seems that [[traps]] are buildable outside. This provides for numerous opportunities. The first that comes to mind is to trap the entire outside world of your embarkation point. This will make your sieges very amusing, as a hundred high-level goblins rush onto the field and are immediately shredded into ribbons by invisible traps before even seeing one dwarf.

'''Difficulty:''' High. Depending on the size of your embarkation point, this may involve placing thousands of traps. Depending on the type of trap, that may involve making tens of thousands of trap components.

'''Usefulness:''' High. Sieges will be instantaneous, and if you use cage traps, your [[arena]] will never want for combatants, including all those pesky wild animals you no longer need to hunt for.

==Journey to the Centre of the Earth==

Construct a sturdy vessel hanging over the top of a magma pipe or volcano, outfitted with everything your intrepid crew might need for their journey of exploration - food, booze, sleeping quarters and a bridge a must, but depending on the amount of effort it can include other items such as a recreation deck, water reservoir and trade depot for dealing with the natives. When all is ready, lock the explorers inside and send them on their way.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate to High, depending on the size of the ship. For bonus points, carve the entire thing out of existing rock overhanging a magma pipe and engrave it with messages. The main problem is getting the whole crew inside at the same time - separate sleeping quarters help here.

'''Usefulness:''' Negative. For some reason, no explorers have returned.

==Labyrinth==

A maze of twisty little passages, all alike. [[Trap]]s and dangerous animals are essential. You can have a retracting bridge drop invaders in, or just have a labyrinth as a back door.

'''Difficulty:''' It's a lot of mining. Having a bridge drop invaders inside is more difficult, but more useful.

'''Usefulness:''' It makes a nice element of fortress defense, and you can dump your prisoners inside it.

==Magma Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Dangerous as any magma project.

'''Usefulness:''' It's like a drowning chamber, but you can't recover most of the victim's stuff.

==Magma Cannon==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=33837.0 It can be done!] It uses a row of pumps to pressurize the magma in a chamber with only one exit. When the floodgate opens, the magma flies out a short distance.

'''Difficulty:''' Very high. You need [[iron]] and [[bauxite]] [[screw pump]]s to make it work, plus a big above-ground construction.

'''Usefulness:''' Marginal. But very cool.

==Magma Mausoleum==
This trick involves dripping water on to the middle of a magma pool until you have a column of obsidian, then channeling down into the obsidian ''more than'' one Z level, and putting a burial receptacle there. This probably won't work in magma tubes or Volcanos since the created obsidian would fall into the bottomless pit. The trick is getting the water to fall onto the magma in a controlled manner. Bonus points for each additional level down you manage to place the coffin.

'''Difficulty:''' High. Requires certain resources from the start, plus lots of setup. And your dwarves tend to erupt into dwarf steam occasionally.

'''Usefulness:''' None, since an obsidian lined room with the exact same furniture somewhere else will please your nobles just as much.

==Magma Pumping==
It's a lot like pumping water, only more dangerous, and requires the [[screw pump|pumps]] to use [[magma-proof]] pipes and screws in their construction.

'''Difficulty:''' The difficult part is making all those [[iron]] or [[steel]] pumps and [[bauxite]] [[floodgate]]s. Very high risk.

'''Usefulness:''' Magma is fun, but also [[Fun]].

==Mega/Water Drowning Trap-Thing==
This is basically a channel above some pressurised water with a short tunnel leading to a door. The door needs to be connected to a lever somewhere in a safe part of the fortress. Position the door facing the main stairs into your fortress (for multiple stairs use multiple traps). When enemies come down the stairs, pull the lever and make them drown. (It helps to seal off the rooms).

'''Difficulty:''' Medium. Needs flowing water under pressure and levers.

'''Usefulness:''' Medium. Depends on the size of your fortress/defences/amount of attackers. Works well with fire demons to create a sauna.

==Monumental Statue==

'''Difficulty:''' Depends on how big you want the statue to be. If you are feeling really masochistic, cast it out of obsidian using magma and water.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

*BONUS:Make the statue hollow and have dwarves live inside it.

==Moses Effect==
With enough pumps, you can pull water out of a square faster than it flows in. This can create a reverse waterfall, or a dry spot in the middle of a flowing river. The effect is like Moses parting the Red Sea.

'''Difficulty:''' Surprisingly easy.

'''Usefulness:''' You can use this trick to create a waterfall or drowning chamber. It is also important if you want to pass through an [[Aquifer]], although that is far more difficult.

==[[Obsidian]] factory==
You need one reservoir of water, and one of magma. Mix, cool, mine, and repeat as necessary.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium.

'''Usefulness:''' Obsidian is 50% more valuable than [[flux]] and 3 times as valuable as ordinary stone, making it ideal for your [[mason]]s and [[stone crafter]]s. Done properly, it can also serve as a magma chamber ''and'' a drowning chamber.

==Pit o' Doom==
Combine with an Execution Tower for maximum z-level executions! Spike traps are a must.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. You want it nice and deep though.

'''Usefulness:''' Dispose of prisoners, execute nobles, gruesome fatal injuries, laugh maniacally.

==Self Destruct Lever==
A mechanism that, for example, could flood your fort with magma, or release a trapped megabeast. For bonus points, build the whole fort on a single [[support]].

'''Difficulty:''' Very high. Extremely dangerous.

'''Usefulness:''' None, by definition, but highly amusing.

==[[Swimming]] pool==
It's a reservoir that fills to 4/7 exactly. Station soldiers inside, lock them in, and fill. This way they gain [[swimming]] skill.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. It's just a pair of reservoirs.

'''Usefulness:''' The swimming skill is only slightly useful. This is most useful if the entrance to your fort has narrow walkways/moats surrounded by water, and you station your soldiers there. It does help gain attributes though.

==[[Tower-cap]] Farm==
You absolutely need to break into an underground river or lake. Make some muddy floors over a big area and wait.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Yes, if it's big enough.

==Underground Perpetual Motion Power Plant==
Combine with a use for the power and you either have an awesome setup, or a ticking time bomb.

'''Difficulty:''' High. Maintaining the correct water level is annoying difficult at times.

'''Usefulness:''' Depends on size of plant and what it's connected to. Also useful as a puzzle for adventurers.

==Vomitorium==
Prevents [[cave adaption]]. It's like the greenhouse, only instead of a farm, it's [[meeting hall]] or [[barracks]]. Since you can't build [[table]]s or [[bed]]s outside, build the room and [[channel]] down to it, or build a [[bridge]] or two over the top.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Low. Can be a problem when [[goblin]] archers get involved.

Talk:Main Page/Quote

2009-10-30T00:14:10Z

Shardok: /* Request for opinion - Deleted quote */

== How to add quotes: ==

* Go to the line of the last quote.
* Add a line immediately after it (this should be before the closing }} brackets)
* type "|YOUR-QUOTE-HERE" on that line
:(The quote number is not functionally necessary, but it allows keeping track of how many quotes there are without counting)
* Look at the first line of the template
:It should look something like this:
<pre>{{Choose|c={{rand|37}}</pre>
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 37 to reflect the number of quotes in the list.
*Preview your reply to make sure nothing is broken (or someone will be able to see it on the main page before it gets fixed)
*Profit!
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion: 
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

== Screenshots ==
The [http://www.dfwk.ru/index.php/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 russian wiki] has made use of the system here to show random DF screenshots rather than quotes. I think this is a rather clever idea. Maybe we have a good spot where we could place something similar? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

: Neat Idea. We could have one quote and one screenshoot. But we should define a standard size for the screenshot. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::200x150 would make it fit the 800x600 curses, with proportional distortion all around, without taking up much in the way of page real estate. If the real estate is deemed not quite so valuable, then 400x300 would work even better, suffering half the overall distortion (but still maintaining a relatively small footprint, and keeping aspect ratio intact.) Unless we're happy with the smaller size I suggested, a page overhaul is going to be needed to find a place to put it, such that it doesn't make a jumble out of the rest of it. (Conversely, I think the 200x150 would fit very neatly in the space already allotted to one of the quotes.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:Also, it could easily be arranged so that quotes and screenshots are paired. That way each screenshot has an accompanying caption. It would take quite a bit of work to get images for the current ones, though. I guess we could start them off as random stuff and switch them out as we go. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:: How does one add screenshots? -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 06:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Which part don't you get? Saving screenshot, uploading image, adding it to the main page?
:::Assuming you mean the last bit - see [[Template talk:Sg]] - there should be some better form of documentation for [[Main page]] shouldn't there![[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 09:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== "[B]loats" ==

For what it's worth, the nowiki formatting around square bracketed 'B' in the Toady quote about boats was simply in the interests of quoting accuracy; the original word was not capitalized and I still have that kind of formatting in my heart from college paper citations. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. It looked to me like a weird, failed boats/bloats pun. I don't think it really matters; you can change it back if you like. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:19, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you! And done. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Quote removal ==

Say, why was the "interrupted by carp" quote removed? I loved that one. --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Blame Savok, he thought it was unfunny. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:22, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

And regarding VengefulDonut stripping off that last one, PTTG's quote was simply hilarious. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:19, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Thinking on this some more, the idea that anyone can just reverse a quote at their leisure strikes me as unusual. If a quote is an obvious spam, that's one thing; if a quote is something that ''you'' don't think of as funny, I think there should be some sort of consensus system involved. There are at least a couple existing quotes that I don't find funny in the slightest (Spiders Everywhere, you've been processed, GreyMario's), but I don't remove them. --[[User:JT|JT]]

My 2☼ on the subject: 
Unless a quote is offensively directed at a particular user/person, I don't see how there are any grounds for removal. 
If it is, it's perfectly acceptable for the addressed person to remove it, if they so choose. 
Additionally, you may remove quotes of yourself, whether or not they're offensive, regardless of who added the quote. 
In all cases, it's the sole responsibility of the addressed person to remove a quote, not someone else. 
I think that makes sense.. but perhaps I'm too far off base? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:When anyone is able to add a quote at their leisure, we will naturally end up with plenty of quotes that aren't funny. If anyone is able to remove a quote at their leisure, quotes that aren't funny will disappear. This is parallel to the wikipedia editing process in general, and I think this kind of process has decent results. Although I am open to other proposals.
:On the topic of racy jokes: I'm sure there are plenty of group-targeted jokes that could be stated in DF terms that would be very funny; just pick a group, a metaphor, and a stereotype. But even if you tell a member of that group to grow a thicker skin or to stop taking themselves seriously or learn to take a joke, it doesn't turn the joke from something alienating to something entertaining. In the right context, those kinds of jokes can be very funny even to those on the butt end of them. Standup comedians succeed or fail based on their ability to create it. But I don't think that the front page is the right context. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:24, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

::Unless its blantantly offensive I don't think "unfunny" is a reason to remove a quote, we each have our own sense of humour, such debate should be placed here on the discussion page imo. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Bleh. I'd like to, but nobody answers most discussion page debates in reasonable time. If we become more regularly active in discussion page debates (which isn't hard - we've got several that any experienced player can add to), we might be able to do that. As it is, the responses are usually at least a few days, often months apart. And then, occasionally, we get one that has five people with fifteen comments in a day or two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

As I've said before, if you want to revert those of my deletes that you really think should stay, that's fine. The way I see it, and the way some have said before me, anybody can, if they think it's funny enough, add a quote to the page. Of course, we will get some pretty poor quotes that way, so anyone can, if they dislike it enough, delete a quote from that page. If an edit war occurs, we can take it to the talk page (with the war attention, we'll actually have commenters), where it can be resolved. We Are Not Wikipedia. We're too small for that; everyone knows everyone else and anyone can monitor all edits if they have a little time to spend. 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], rambling at 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

== [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19686.msg206978#msg206978 Too untasteful?] ==

I found this on the forums:
<div style="width: 12em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' 
Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching</div>
For? Against? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. DF has people exploding in gore. Besides, these words are in the game anyway.
-- [[User:InquisitorSaturn|InquisitorSaturn]] 01:44, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. Lets be honest; how many people are likely to come to this wiki that aren't mature enough to enjoy a little mature humor. If anything people are more likely to complain that it didn't make them laugh then that they are worried that kids might see it. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 01:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nobody gives a fuck about the kids, man. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

For - Very funny and clever --[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 17:33, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Against. I think it might be funny once or twice, but it is not necessarily something that I want to see on the front page for hours until the quote changes again. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 10:26 June 14 (MST)

:Mmmm... against. When there were 2 quotes on the page, maybe. But now that there's only 1, I'd rather not have this be "representative" of any DF experience, when it's simply not. In fact, it has nothing to do with DF - it's just crude. (Not that that's a bad thing - it just has nothing to do with DF.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Multi-Line Quotes ==

I assumed your multi-line quote was an error because it rendered incorrectly when it appeared on http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote , and did so again when you restored the original. I've re-re-restored it in the interests of peace but I do note that the text extends outside the box and one line actually appears below the box. I'm less certain whether it appears this way on the main page. Perhaps we need a different way to enter multi-line quotes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:The quote that's causing problems is kinda long, either way. How about we just bonk it on the head?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:15, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::But it's funny. :( --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

:Just out of curiosity, what browser? It appears just fine in Firefox 2. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:39, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Firefox 3. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:My multi-line quote (shown below) doesn't appear to break anything (browser used: Firefox 3). --[[User:Beerdude26|Beerdude26]] 15:26, 22 January 2009 (EST)

<blockquote>
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"

'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
</blockquote>

== Okay wtf who broke shit where. ==

On the main page, the second random quote is just a '. WHAT GIVES? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:I can't find any recent changes to the code of the selector, and given that the first selector works, it's hard to blame a syntax error either. The mainpage does a weird thing to guarantee the quotes are different, passing |1 to the page as a parameter or...something. Someone who knows wikicode may know what's going on. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:13, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The problem is a bit deeper. [[template:rand]] and [[template:rand2]] use the mod function inside a #expr to mod the current timestamp and return a number in a specified range. The mod function is returning negative values for large inputs (this is a bug). Since it seems I can't guarantee a positive number will have a positive mod, I don't know how to modify the templates to make sure they keep returning positive numbers. Smaller inputs would be nice, but I need it to vary with time, and those are the ones that are blowing it up. Also, I don't have absolute value or any binary number operations, so those methods are out. Absolute value would be available with a newer version of parser functions, but convincing [[user:senso|Senso]] is an obstacle there. I'm really not sure how to remedy this. Anyone have ideas? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::: I say divide the end result before modulusing by 4. That'll still give pseudo-random numbers, just less often, and might work until a better fix rears its not-so-ugly head. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::: <s>Good idea. I'll try it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::: Didn't work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::: Feel free to fool around with [[template:rand]] and push a fix if you can find one. Just make sure to preview. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Ah well, it was worth a shot. I'll see what I can come up with in the [[Template:Sandbox|sandbox]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:31, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::<s>UPDATE: It appears using <tt><nowiki>{{#expr: ((({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} / 1024) + {{CURRENTDAY}} + {{CURRENTMONTH}}) mod {{{1|100}}}) + 1}}</nowiki></tt> seems to produce positive numbers for now. I'll go update [[Template:Rand2]] and see if it works.</s> <s>So much for that, but at least it was returning positive numbers. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::::Okay, I blame certain things being slow for the fact that it works over in the Sandbox but not in the Main Page/Quote template. :S But the good news is, it's at least producing a result over at the sandbox. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Can you use an <nowiki> {{ #ifexpr: {{{num}}} >= 0 | {{{num}}} | {{ #expr: {{{num}}} * -1 }} }} </nowiki> to replace abs? (I may have the syntax slightly wrong.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::Good call, Maximus. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:04, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::::You know, I thought of that just last night but was too busy falling asleep. :( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::::I stole it off your desk.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:06, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Here we go again! It's started displaying the telltale ' again. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST) UPDATE: It's just gone away again. Might be worth a try to check the conditions next time it does it D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:08, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::Should be fixed now. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== What's This Jreengus Stuff About, Anyway? ==

Googling it just gets me pages telling me it's funny for those in the know somehow. If any place ought to have an explanation it's the wiki. That's what it's there for! :) --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:05, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Kobolds speak gibberish. The code that named an event allowed the kobolds to name it (when they won? maybe.), and that caused the name of an event to sometimes be a single word of gibberish. Toady mentioned that somewhere in some part of the dev notes.
:That's it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal. ==

Haaaaawhaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Awesome. We need more quotes that are as funny as this. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:48, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:How many people can understand dwarven without dictionary? :) Anyway, the quote is still funny as is. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 12:13, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Long quotes ==

"Engraved on the wall is a masterfully designed image of a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf mining out a wall." Yes this is a long quote but it's also funny, why ditch it? I didn't see any long quotes breaking the mainpage the way multi-line quotes did. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:They make the main page look like crap by stretching the quote box and pushing down everything else. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Surely there are other places to put funny things. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Not really, unless you mean 'keep this stuff off the wiki'. No, quotes aren't a big deal. They're just fun, i.e. 'the entire point'. ;p The Quote_Archive is an obvious aging relic, and ought to go anyway since there's no sense having multiple, separate pages of slightly different functionality and identical content patchily duplicating each other. I wonder if the quote wikicode could be done the other way around... I might play around on my talk page and see if I can build a useful something. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::The Quote Archive was originally created as a place for quotes to go to never be deleted, so that it wouldn't be that bad if someone lost a quote from Main Page/Quote. When I created it, I didn't realize the effort it would take to update it, so I'm going to go over there now and clean it up, making it all plaintext.
:::Also, I concur with Vengeful that the long quotes are overly ugly on the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:35, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::::Not arguing with that. I usually run screens at a high resolution so I didn't notice the stretching myself. I do think multiple quote pages is pointless though, 'specially considering folk like me will happen upon them and helpfully transfer stuff from one to the other... Not that I would, but I had often considered doing so, obviously misunderstanding your intent in all that duplicate information. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:I agree in principle - many recently deleted are not (imo) a dealbreaker, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I just posted a guideline at the top of the page which reads:
::LIMIT QUOTES TO 150 CHARACTERS (as most are below)
::LONGER QUOTES MAY BE SNIPPED OR DELETED!
:- which seems the max currently. (Only visible when editing, allcaps for max visibility/impact.)
:I also edited several existing long quotes into shorter, acceptable format - some of those were funny, and while changing others' quotes is not my preferred option, this is a wiki, and it's that or lose them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Edit Warring ==
I see GreyMario has taken it upon himself to remove quotes by the dozen, most of which had previously been added back after someone noticed their mysterious absence. Clearly your sense of humor is not everyone's or people wouldn't have to keep adding them back, could you just leave it be instead of editwarring? Can someone give us a revert, please? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:Except they were removed because they were unfunny by popular vote. People should really put it up to a vote when it comes to adding them back. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::I must have missed this, where did it happen? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::In general, I think the replacement of deleted quotes is more of a problem than their deletion. As long as they are added just once and deleted just once, we won't have an edit war even with conflicting views of humor. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, most of those votes were not funny. They were not even remotely close to my "mind like a +whatever trap+" quote, and it's hard to be worse than that and still funny. Anyway, edit warring=no, people should ask what happened to them and it then should be explained exactly what did happen. Personally, I think that they should be left on the quote archive, but not popping up on the main page for all to see.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 12:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions ==

Here are 6 quotes that were deleted after being added. I believe they are worth keeping - wouldn't have added them if I didn't, but one other user disagreed enough to delete them all. Opinions on any or all are requested.

:*Look, there's sentient lava outside, & the only survivor is issuing mandates to the empty halls. This isn't going to get better.
::Goddamn I am ''sick'' of this constant editwarring. If I went around removing everything I didn't think was funny the quotes page would be cut in half, but I try to respect other people's content and acknowlege other people's sense of humor. This was not a misquote originally, someone just shortened it into one, and butchered both the content and the english language in the process. "There's sentient lava outside" is perilously close to lolspeak. "There are roving clumps of sentient lava outside", on the other hand, is a mental picture that gets a laugh reaction from 4/5 folks I show it to. I'm putting it back. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 20:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Vengeful donut took this to my talk page for some reason, I'm responding here. Humor is a matter of taste, unlike most of the rest of the wiki, and one person shouldn't try and define it for everyone. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

:*On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human reading a dwarf fortress wiki. The human has '''no clue''' what is going on.

:*Seeing a dwarf give birth while sparring was scary, but worse was when she picked the child up & continued fighting.

:*The merchants won't leave because I killed their guys & I can't drown them because there's a shoe in the floodgate.

:*All I do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever to flood the central chamber, & the goblins start sorting themselves by density.

:*The mayor sent me to kill the crocodile that killed my last 3 characters - again... I think he's catching on that I want to kill him.
--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::It's worth noting that these are all misquotes. They have been modified from their original versions. Since these is a list of '''quotes''' rather than just '''jokes''' misquotes do not belong here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::IMO, we don't even credit the quotes so it's not ''that'' important to keep the original phrase intact. The quotes are here to add a funny aspect to the front page, it's not like we're quoting the President about some Important Matter. If a quote breaks the box, I say it's fine to shorten it until it fits, as long as the original spirit is kept. We could always ask the quote's author for their approval, if it's that important. Can we track the origin of those quotes? If not, let's edit them since nobody can prove they're actual quotes anyway. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If we're not going to pretend that we're quoting people, perhaps we should rename the page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::A bunch of sentences without any credits are not proper quotes so in fact, the Quotes page has never really been about quoting people, it's seen as a repository of funny quips about DF. Personally, I don't think it's important enough to start finding all the real authors and adding the authors to the quotes when they appear on the front page. We're not going to bicker about the definition of the word "Quote" and if it's a valid designation or not for that page, I'll leave that kind of debate for Wikipedia. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "quotes" were made up for that list anyway. My final opinion is this: The more sentences we have in that list the better, I don't mind if there is no source attribution. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 00:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::I like quote 2 (forum + wiki) so much that I'ld be willing to re-add it myself; don't care about the rest. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 15:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:'''Restore''' And I'll also echo Senso's sentiments on the matter. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== Signatures ==

Do we want to include signatures? ("Toady" and a few other notables being exceptions). Isn't that a bit against the anonymous/collective idea of a wiki? Doesn't that personalize the edits and hurt the overall process? (And risk turning this into a "look at me!" page?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:That sounds like a fine idea, if someone sees a quote with somebody's sinature, they can just delete the signature. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 18:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Redirects in Quotes ==

Do you guys really think we should have [[]]'s in quotes? They mights help a bit, but it seems to take away a bit of the vibe. Thoughts about taking them down?
:I think the links are appropriate for drawing in and directing new users. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

== Inappropriate Undo ==

While you are free to re-add a removed quote, removal is a call to review those quotes which were removed. Undo is a blatant violation of that, as it doesn't necessitate even *looking* at what was removed. As such, I am undoing the undo, and ask that if the person wishes to re-add any of the quotes that he deliberately re-add the ones he actually thinks are funny. (Do note I moved a couple around because it was easier instead of de-incrementing numbers). Also, re-adding necessitates a discussion on this page - please have one before re-adding. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
: I want them back, 4 of the 5 were funny as they were, and there's no need to trim them since they doesnt break the page layout. Actually, I find your undo of the undo annoying, since they were fine quotes. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::I deleted more than 5... =P And I moved some because it was easier than changing numbers. Which ones did you think were funny - I mean, we can have the discussion, but we need to have a discussion before they get re-added. (Also, the carp one is totally funnier with just the game quote) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Seriously, Guys ==

I forget DF for a few months and you remove almost an entire kilobyte of quotes, along with the stupid goatse one which, while awful, was long since victorious in the protracted and bitter war over whether it should stay and in what form. Yes, it's quite clear you don't like some quotes. Yes, anyone is allowed to remove quotes but it's almost always the same very few people that do so, and the rules are clearly designed in your favor(delete anything you want with no justification, but add things only once unless you can change the deleter's mind). Would it kill you to at least '''add''' a little content to this page alongside removing so much? If I decided the main page was ugly and REMOVED IT wouldn't that still be a loss of content? Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

::Corona688, you have argued that the current system for deleting and undeleting quotes is bad. You have asked people who have removed quotes to be constructive instead. Let's turn this request around: when it comes to the issue of quote policy, please be constructive instead. I am sure you will be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with your complaints about the current system. They are all valid. However, despite these shortcomings, nobody has come up with a better one. If we decided the current policy was bad and just removed it without replacement, we would be worse off. "''Wouldn't it be rude of me to expect others to fill in holes I leave?''". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

:I didn't remove the goatsects one, and while i didn't find it funny, i did respect the consensus of the talk page regarding it. The one quote i did add was removed in like a month.
:However, removing stuff from this page is as important as adding stuff - both types of people are needed to ensure a quality page. Otherwise we end up either with lots of crappy quotes or very few quotes. So don't disparage one side of the equation - both are essential. That said, expecting the people adding things to be funnier wouldn't be too much to expect, would it? There's still a lot of not funny in the quote list, and a few that could be funny with a little editing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, we need both. Not many folks would bother adding quotes more than once as is though, so we're seeing a net loss of content. I don't think the primary deleters here represent the One And Only True Correct Sense Of Humor™®ⓒ, and the rules as is unfairly pit content creators against them. Almost nobody cares one way or another except about their own quotes, you can't expect a consensus to readd when a good one is deleted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

:::We are not experiencing a net loss of content. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Ok, that's enough ==

Squirrelloid, you have your own humor, but don't try to impose it on other people. If you don't find something funny doesn't mean you have to remove it.

You removed these 3 lines with your last edit :
* had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09
* Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
* Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones.

The last one is taken from an epic forum topic, the second one is funny because of the focus the dwarf have on olivine. The first one is from the dev log...

By the way, where is it written than quote MUST be funny ? --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Re: Readding quotes
::One person is hardly consensus. Page policy:
:::"If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion."
:::"If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added."
::I certainly don't feel you've met the burden of that, and I certainly don't find those quotes funny.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::: Make it two, with corona, there's no definite number of people needed AFAIK --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Corona doesn't come down in favor of any particular quotes actually, nor did he contribute to the relevant discussion. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Also, you can't just go re-instating an old version if there's multiple subsequent versions. You actually deleted new material.
::On those specific quotes. The Dev log quote sucks. The delivery is awful. There may be a good line with the same base material, but that is certainly not it.
::The second one is clearly not in-game, because its impossible to generate that, which severely detracts from its humor value.
::And I don't care how epic the thread was, the quote isn't at all interesting.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, YOUR modification were not funny. So I removed them. If you want them back, you have to do a call for opinion :) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

::Which, my new quote or my modification of the carp one? If you want to *remove* either, by all means, its your right. But to re-add the old material requires consensus on each and every individual quote, not just reverting. Its a violation of page policy. So stop. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Request for opinion - Deleted quote ==

Since we have someone not funny at all who try to impose is humor, or lack of, on us, and since the guideline are there, even if they are not really clear or useful as stated by corona866... Here's a request for opinion on deleted quote.

Here's the list, just add under it if you want them back, or not. That way, no one is going to cry. In 2 weeks, enough time for the regular contributor to see this topic, we could add them back or not. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
* ;-) --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

=== I had somebody shoot my toe off with a crossbow, which was cool... It just happened that the toe was narrow enough to be removed. -- Dev Log, 08/18/09 ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The language is confused, and the sentence after the ellipsis is redundant with the first part. (If its shot off, of course its removed...) Basically, this is a horrible mess of a line, and since its actually a direct quote it can't be modified (although it could be snipped - i could be convinced the line through the ellipsis is worth keeping, but i'd need to be convinced) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::This sentence actually makes perfect sense. He had his toe shot off. He comments that it was able to be shot off because it was just narrow enough. I found this dev log funny when I read it. I don't see any reason not to re-add this one. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
==="So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. That's like every fortress ever? There is nothing surprising, interesting, or amusing about this quote --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Another one that actually has some humor at times. I mean, really, you can't expect all the quotes to be grade A funny. This one does have some hilarity to it because it actually is possible to have insane impact on the entire world despite only running a single fortress. Such as when suddenly the entire Elven population seems to have dwindled due to massive wars with your fortress. I think it's a nice one that should be in the quotes. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
=== Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Utterly boring, and clearly artificial since the game cannot generate that as a set of prefstrings. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is a good one. And Not artificial. This came from the dwarves that were generated randomly by ToadyOne to show off the new likes/dislikes/appearance/etc. It just so happened most of them liked olivine, a lot. Some liked it twice, and one crazy dwarf, Sarvesh, only liked it. And nothing else. I think it should be added back [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
=== Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring, and are mermaids even butcherable? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Not the best. One of the few I don't much see a use for. Mainly because it'd be funnier if the creature in question were a different animal. Like a cat. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
=== If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...> ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. The material could be reworked, but the current presentation is crap. Would favor a reworded version of the same material. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:I'd only be okay with this one if it weren't so utterly annoying. "What the lever did" would work just the same and wouldn't look as stupid. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
=== <nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki> Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago. ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Want it back --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Don't see the value in posting something that every single player has probably thought at least 10 times. Its not noteworthy, much less funny or interesting. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:: I think it is a good quote just because every single player has probably thought at least 10 times... It´s typical DF. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::But why does that make it quote-worthy? It is neither especially witty, noteworthy, or interesting. I mean, there's lots of typical DF things that make for very poor quotes. You'll notice they *aren't on this page*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::I think there are more poor quotes *on this page*, but I don´t think this one would be one of them. Just my opinion, let´s see what others think. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ok, i definitely agree there are more poor quotes on the page. But every time i remove a handful someone throws a hissy fit. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:This follows a common logic that many people start to notice. It's nice to warn users with the quotes and they don't all have to be jokes. I think it should be added in[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

=== Game Features: How much you ''want''? System Requirements: How much you ''got''? ===
:Want it back --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:53, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:no, don't re-add this --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 16:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Do not want. Boring. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:Dislike. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

40d:King

2009-10-17T02:57:56Z

Shardok: Undo revision 55268 by 67.238.138.183 (Talk)

{{Noble
| noble=King
| quarters=Royal [[Bedroom]]
| dining=Royal [[Dining Room]]
| office=Royal Throne Room
| tomb=Royal Mausoleum
| stands=5
| racks=5
| chests=10
| cabinets=5
| arrival=
* [[Duke|Duchy]], high [[value]] of architecture, roads and offerings to a Dwarven [[caravan]]
* '''or''' discover [[Adamantine]] (bugged{{version|0.27.176.38c}})
| function=
* Promote [[fortress]] to Mountainhome
}}
The '''King''' is the [[dwarf]] named as ruler of the dwarf civilization in the [[civilization]]s screen. When the King arrives, your fortress will be promoted to Mountainhome and capital of that civilization.

The king may, in fact, be a '''Queen'''. She will be referred to as the King in text relating to the process of her arrival.

==Requirements==
Once your [[fortress]] becomes the capital of a [[Duke/Duchess|duchy]], 'The Incoming King' will appear on your nobles screen. You will need to reach a certain architectural [[value]], [[road]] value (whether from paved roads or [[bridge]]s), and [[offering|offerings]] required (to the dwarven civ's merchants) for the King to arrive. The values needed for each vary from fort to fort, but can be viewed by examining 'The Incoming King' on the nobles screen. Offerings to merchants must actually reach the king: the merchants must make it safely off the map with your offerings.

Alternately, if you find [[adamantine]], this [[noble]] will make a surprise arrival, dressed as a [[peasant]]. Despite arriving dressed as a peasant, he will make the same room and furniture demands as otherwise.

The adamantine king was bugged in some previous versions,{{version|0.27.176.38c}} where you were not guaranteed the ruler when you discover adamantine, but instead the first dwarf in the full civ list. This may have been fixed.

==Arrival==
If the king arrives normally (i.e., not from adamantine), he will come with some Royal [[Guard]]s and an [[advisor]]. The spouses (if any) of the king's entourage will also arrive at this time, all in the form of peasants. The [[king consort|king's spouse]] will also arrive if he or she is still alive (this is dependent on history generation).

A king that comes dressed as a peasant will have no entourage, and therefore no advisor and no royal guards.

The arrival of the king makes your fortress the mountainhome. The foremost consequence of this is you will no longer receive a trade [[liaison]] from your civilization, so can no longer make special request of them, and you can no longer make offerings to the caravan.

===Wounds===
Occasionally, a King or Queen will have received crippling [[wound|injuries]] during world generation, long before they arrive on your map. These injuries will be permanent - either lost limbs ([[wound|dark grey]]) or non-healing spinal/nervous injuries. That's life.

==Demands==
Aside from his room and furniture requirements and the occasional [[demand]], the king issues no [[mandates]].

==Non-dwarven Rulers==
It is possible to have non-dwarven rulers. In these cases your liason may be of another race other than dwarf and when the king arrives, he will also be of that race. All other nobles that come will still be dwarves. Non-dwarven kings make no room demands, their advisor is also of the same non-dwarven race, and they do not move into your fortress, instead hanging out at the edge of the map where they first arrived. In the unit list, they appear as "Friendly", and they do not appear on your [[Nobles screen]]. The length of their reign is usually limited to the next [[seige]] unless you take measures to protect them.

[[Category:Nobles]]

40d Talk:Herbalist

2009-09-02T21:35:32Z

Shardok:

I would like to add a section "plant gathering can be a good food source early on, and a source for seeds otherwise not obtainable, but tends to be completely useless later in game unless you are in a biome where you can find Kobold Bulb or Valley herb. Objections? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:53, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:What! Are you mad? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard!
:
:Go read http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Editing_pages#Editing_rules.2C_editing_conventions.2C_and_formatting and follow those directions man. This is a wiki Edit first. Verify facts later (if ever). --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 02:05, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:: ;) Um, well.. i will just postpone the question of how much irony or insult is intended in your post and point out that calling a skill ''completely useless'' is a bit strong so i thought i d have more opinions on that first. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:53, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::: having a herbalist is also useful if you want to grow surface plants, since you need to obtain the seeds first and traders don't always bring the kind of seeds you need. So if it gets completely useless, then only after you obtained enough seeds for any surface farming plots you want. --[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 13:32, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::::: *squeeze in* um..which is why i wrote "and a source for seeds otherwise not obtainable" --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:22, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::::it never becomes completely useless. some of us never farm at all :) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:26, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Personally, I find that herbalism is useful until my food supply overwhelms my population. At that point, none of the other food-generating methods are either. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:28, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

== More than one region ==

Koltom, care to explain your definition of a region? [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wealth

2009-08-28T01:53:58Z

Shardok: /* Negative Wealth */

@ Savok: I dont know if we need it that detailed, but when an item is created or bought it is not forbidden and thus counts. Only after that you can forbid it - which in case of an artifact can cause quite the plunge and make players wonder what happened. That was my idea. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:27, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. IMO, to express that well, neither of our phrasings work well. I'll try to fix it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:48, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

::What about exported wealth? I've only got 305☼, whereas I have about 415,000☼ imported wealth! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:09, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::<offtopic>See [[CP437]] for the symbols DF uses. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:44, 16 June 2008 (EDT)</offtopic>

::::Thanks! ☺ --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:44, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

== Negative Wealth ==

Is this actually Possible without cheating? If not, I don't see any reason to put a comment about cheating into the main article, as it will just confuse people and generally cheating comments are kept in cheating areas of the wiki. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 06:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
:With few exceptions, if it's outside the game as presented, it's '''not''' mentioned in the wiki. Exceptions are ploys and exploits available (intentionally or accidentally) via the existing game controls, not via utilities or mods, etc.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
::Well, this can be achieved by editing raws I assume, but I still don't see it to be a very useful thing to stick into a section on wealth. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
::However, his more recent edit attempt sorta shows that this could possibly be achieved without *cheating* per se. If you can actually get the value of wealth to be over whatever value (I think around 2.15 billion most likely) without cheating, which, in theory someone could do with enough artifacts. If that's the case, then a section explaining negative wealth might be useful for those 1 in 100000 people that get their wealth so high that it becomes negative. However, if not the case. I still see no use. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wealth

2009-08-28T01:51:29Z

Shardok: /* Negative Wealth */

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-08-27T18:45:26Z

Shardok:

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it mentions that it has spoilers its perfect--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== misc ==
Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)
==Glassmaker==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rough Gems ==

EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Regarding "why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems" -- it is good enough. I've had fey dwarves grab raw green glass a half-dozen times. I think it's more likely that all the raw green glass in your fortress was TASKED, and therefore unavailable to the fey dwarf. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

== Materials used ==

Before I struck adamantine, all metalworking moods (weapons, armor, furniture, crafts) would pick a randomly available metal and use it. However, ever since I struck adamantine, they '''always''' go straight for the wafers, even when it isn't in their preferences. Stone-related moods, however, don't seem to prefer raw adamantine over other nearby rocks. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Material Preferences ==

Stories from the old 2D version have included many accounts of dwarves in strange moods requesting very specific materials, though with all of the moods I've gone through in 40d, I have '''never''' seen any dwarf require any specific material other than Adamantine (and only for metalsmithing or clothesmaking moods, and only once I've actually discovered it). Are specific material preferences even present in the current version, or were they removed from the game entirely (along with many other things)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

:I've also never got such requests. And I've used Dwarf companion to crank out over 20 artifacts in a single fortress at least 3 times. All in all, I've probably seen over 100 different artifacts made and never had a single request for a specific material (I don't play a lot of fortresses with Adamantine, so that's why I've not seen those, and the few I have died due to too much [[fun]].) [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 18:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wealth

2009-08-27T06:22:35Z

Shardok:

40d:Wealth

2009-08-27T06:21:27Z

Shardok: Undo revision 41283446 by Mad Fencer (Talk) See page talk.

Your fortress's total '''Created Wealth''' is visible on the {{k|z}} - [[status]] screen once you have a [[bookkeeper]] with at least novice [[appraiser]] [[skill]] (though your bookkeeper still needs to do quite a bit of work to achieve and maintain exact figures). All objects with any value (including mined-out areas, [[bridge]]s, engravings and every kind of created good) will be included in the total. [[Artifacts]] are usually one of the largest influences of fortress wealth. Artifacts made of precious resources and heavily [[decoration|decorated]] can easily be worth thrice the value of your fortress in the early years.

Items made off-site are not counted in your total fortress wealth. Their value is listed under "imports."

While [[prepared meal]]s can be quite valuable and it's to a much lesser extent possible to amass wealth from booze, unless forbidden, these items tend to get consumed by your gluttonous dwarves at an alarming rate, reducing your wealth. Among other factors, the value of a meal makes it more desirable, too. This loss is to be expected, and on the plus side quality food does provide a source of [[thought|happy thoughts]].

Wealth influences or triggers various game features, such as [[goblin]] [[siege]]s, the arrival of [[noble]]s and megabeasts, the number, and probably time of arrival, of [[immigration|immigrants]].

== Building fortress wealth==

Good ways to building wealth include:

* Checking for promising [[stone layers]] when selecting your [[location]].
* Searching for and using valuable [[metal]]s (e.g. gold, aluminium, or platinum) early on
* Choosing proficient dwarves on [[Your_first_fortress#Skills|embark]]; experienced dwarves work faster, and make higher quality goods.
* Using more valuable, but still abundant stone (e.g. [[obsidian]] or [[flux]]) for "everyday items"
* Smoothing and detailing walls
* Check [[item value]] for clues on what items are valuable and how processing boosts wealth
* Build a [[steel]] [[armor]] industry
* [[Encrust]]ing/decorating objects with highly skilled craftdwarves
* decorating specifically ''imported'' objects and goblin loot; those will be substracted from the import figure and added to their respective division of your created wealth
* Assisting dwarves in strange moods, especially leaving high value gems, giant cave spider silk, and adamantine/aluminum/platinum for decorations nearby

40d Talk:Tax collector

2009-08-27T06:15:21Z

Shardok:

I never minted a single coin and still got a Tax Collector in about my 5th year - perhaps the trigger is wealth created or exported? --GameHat

:Moved that from the article, Mr Hat. Anyway, I agree. I never minted a coin, and still got the Tax Collector. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:34, 18 November 2007 (EST)

My Tax Collector has a [happy] thought "Was happy to have pleased a noble". The Count has a [happy] thought "Was pleased that the tax collection went smoothly". --[[User:Another|Another]] 13:01, 25 November 2007 (EST)

=Trigger Condition=

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Lowest Values Reported
|-
| Population:
| 13
| [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]
|-
| Fortress Class:
| Town
| [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]]
|-
| Created [[Wealth]]:
| 330,339
| Cap'n Mayday, [[Nist Akath]]
|-
| Exported Wealth:
| 11,560
| [[User:MightyMooquack]]
|-
| Imported Wealth:
| 16,396
| [[User:Gibbonofdoom]]
|}

Captain Mayday on the official forums got a tax collector during his Nist Akath story, as far as i know he doesn't have metal for minting coins his created wealth etc was this:
Imported Wealth: 330339
Exported Wealth: 42119
Actual fortress wealth is at 859403

hope this helps in some way --Bullion

I had a tax collector arrive together with the baron, baroness and hammerer, population of 13 due to bronze colossus encounter. Fortress type is city (it doesn't decrease with population loss) [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 22:38, 2 December 2007 (EST)

I recently got a fort far enough along to get this noble. I certainly had not minted any coins. What seemed to do it was my population passing 100. He arrived, along with the Baron, Consort and Hammerer in a wave that brought my population from the low 90s up to 115.

I think wealth is also required, passing 100 population brought me only the philosopher in said fort. Has anyone got the tax collector without a baron or vice versa? [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 17:57, 5 December 2007 (EST)

I just got my baron, collector, consort and hammerer.
The year is 1064, my population is 100 on the dot (at the note of the arival of the nobles)

I have:
388732 imported wealth
67325 exported wealth
506478 created wealth
4336 weapons
45840 armor and garb
65710 furniture
227955 other objects
74200 architecture
37877 Displayed
50560 held/worn.

-ellipsis (not sure how to fancy up a signature in here)

It seems that having 100 population is a major factor in getting the economy.

I just got the tax collector with a couple of other nobles, its 1054 Mid-Spring.
My pop is 99 now.
Created wealth: 763,020
Imported Wealth: 221,438
Exported Wealth: 21,747

Hope this helps! [[User:Marcsterix]]

I just got a tax collector, hammerer, count (and consort), and philosopher. It is Mid-Spring of 1058. My Created Wealth = 1431886, Exported = 29462, Imported = 388973. Population = 124 after the migration wave that included the nobles (111 before migration wave). [[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:05, 30 January 2008 (EST)

I just got the Tax Collector, Hammerer and Baroness in the year 1056, Mid-Spring
Population: ''89'' Created Wealth: ''398852'' Imported Wealth ''195743'' Exported Wealth: ''16396'' --[[User:Gibbonofdoom|Gibbonofdoom]] 10:21, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Another data point. I just got a tax collector, hammerer, and baroness on 12th Slate, 1055, Mid-Spring. Population: ''142'' Created Wealth: ''747376'' Imported Wealth: ''476282'' Exported Wealth: ''11560'' —[[User:MightyMooquack|MightyMooquack]] 00:39, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

I added a table above. If you've seen a tax collector appear at lower values, please update. (Maybe this should be on the main page?) --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:33, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

I got the Tax Collector, Hammerer, Baron and Baroness Consort at population '''86'''. (But lots of wealth). --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 11:51, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Has anyone seen the Tax Collector arrive separately from the Baron? I think the Baron, Tax Collector, and Hammerer all have the same conditions. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:18, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

=Labors=
What labors will the Tax Collector perform? The first thing my newly-arrived Tax Collector did was "Fill Pond"! Perhaps he's bored because I turned the economy off? -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:"Fill Pond" is a job that any dwarf will do, no matter what labors they have enabled. Other jobs like that are Haul Item to Depot and Pull Lever. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:58, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

== Fort needs to be a barony? ==

I thought that the Tax Collector came at the same time as a Baron, therefore Fort Becomes a Barony on arrival of Tax Collector with Baron. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 06:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Thirst

2009-08-26T07:52:33Z

Shardok:

Wrote up as much information as I could think of on thirst. I'll try to see if wildlife drinks, if visiting creatures drink, and how long it takes a dwarf to die without water - maybe waiting until someone takes a drink, noting the date, then locking them in a room with food until they die. If someone beats me to it, please update the page accordingly - I'm not sure when I'll get around to running the experiments. --[[User:CrazyEyes|CrazyEyes]] 20:05, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Ran a test with the elven merchants, they lasted about a month before going berserk, then another five months without an apparent water source, so I think it's safe to say they don't drink.--[[User:CrazyEyes|CrazyEyes]] 23:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

To Editor:
:It is affected by the tileset.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:28, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I think only dwarves with yellow/red injuries drink nothing but water, minor wounds don't seem to be a problem. Not about to get a dwarf wounded to find out, though [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I have set up several wells and have several stockpiles of drinks scattered around the fortress, yet all of my dwarfs still complain of thirst. Is there something more I can do? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 05:37, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
:Do you *have* alcohol? You need to actually Brew the alcohol. And, the wells might be dried up. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 07:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Quest

2009-08-26T04:13:07Z

Shardok:

I'm not sure, and it'd be difficult to test, but I think the status you have with an entity may affect the willingness of the more skilled warriors from that entity to join you. This might just be a side-effect of killing powerful monsters though. --[[User:Toastdieb|Toastdieb]] 19:22, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

--One hell of a lot of giants--
I had a really weird experience after a stupid treehugger druid asked me to kill a giant. I went to the cave with my scouting party (some elf warriors and some humans) and found an injured giant. I killed it with ease, but realised that that was not ''the'' giant that I was supposed to kill. I went further in and encountered 2 together. I had some difficulty killing these, and 1 of them killed 2 of my human sidekicks, but eventually they too lay dead. And neither of these was the required giant! I went further in and encountered 2 more. Thankfully the second one was the giant that was bothering the elves.

Wow. 5 giants in a cave. Has anyone else seen this many?--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 04:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Same thing happened to me again, in the same world but a different cave. And this time, there were 2 giants both named Sas!!--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

After a more careful search of the 2nd cave I found 2 more giants, bringing the total in the cave to 7. Whoa!--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 06:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Funny, since I have the opposite problem - I found the cave, but not the dragon. What does one do when the quest monster just isn't home? Travel around and come back? [[User:Frogwarrior|Frogwarrior]] 23:23, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
:I found I had this problem once, I traveled around a bit outside and found the dragon, or rather, it's fire found me. After a single warhammer hit it fell down dead though. I was quite disappointed. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Currency

2009-08-25T20:58:57Z

Shardok: Undo revision 41283326 by 3lB33 (Talk) As it's only in the talk page, seems okay. Some people might find that information helpful.

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/ bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)
:For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that it is a correct spelling which has fallen out of usage. Also note that the term "monies" is correctly used as a meta-reference to multiple units of money, e.g. "The Member nations of the EU have many varied monies", not as in "How much monies do you have in your bank account". [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 08:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

This section has nothing to do with dwarf fortress, please stop adding to it.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 16:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

::Honestly, the whole economy is so off-kilter right now I'm considering simply turning it off until it sees a major overhaul. I think I'll mess with it again when it's further along in development, as it seems a kind of placeholder right now. I'm sure Toady One can find some real, live economists on these boards to consult with in order to make the whole thing work. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:::One option might be to count coins as a REALLY small item, so small that it doesn't actually appear in-game. Smelted coins are instead simply added to the currency screen, and the dwarves continue about their lives as though on credit. The credit system would be removed, and dwarves WOULD carry coins, but all transactions would be done "backstage." No running off to grab coins, no stashing them in chests, just a running tab of how much everyone is worth. Basically I am suggesting that coins operate like the credit system does now. That would give coins meaning, without making them obnoxiously inconvenient. Bank officers could be appointed to record transactions (or the treasurer could handle it), so that all dwarves' accounts are balanced correctly, without them actually ever touching their money. (BTW, I am not yet used to the whole wikipedia setup, so please bear with me.) --[[User:zipdog|zipdog]]
::::Brilliant Idea you could even control the money supply to avoid inflation or deflation and recessions. Knowing Toady tends to go overboard he will probably do something like this when he redoes the economy.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 00:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::If you want it to be all in the backround why don't you just stick with the credit system?--[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 08:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
::::::I agree that it shouldn't always be a 'hauled item' persay, but coins that are initially minted should be brought to a bank, (I like the idea of a bin vault with a teller desk on the outside with a banker who distrubutes coinage to arriving dwarves). Leather, or cloth wallets could be made and the coins stored as other containers do (quivers, backpacks). They would all have a limit on the amount of coins stored in them, and every three months dwarves get their "paycheck" for the difference in the money that they haved earned and that amount is accredited to the dwarf by the bank. So if the dwarf wanted to go shopping he would simply go to the bank and transfer the coins into him wallet, (maybe the banker does this for him or they go in to the coin stockpile themselves).

::::::Coins also allow the idea of "thieves" and if there were some dwarves with this personality they could go into other dwarves rooms, especially those with whom they have a grudge against, and steal their money out of their coffers. Causing new reasons and justification for justice to exist, (severe beatings causing thieves to loose that pesonality attribute).

::::::This solves the problem of dwarves hauling their money over the map, the problem with stacking, (if you allow coins to be deposited side-by-side in bins and in the wallet), and adds some depth. As a side note, the Tax Collector should have a role in collecting taxes for the bank's services. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 22:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

== As trade goods ==

This page says that coins are valued at 10 times the metal [[value]]. And the [[Metalsmith's forge]] page says that one bar of metal makes 500 coins! Even without [[quality]] levels wouldn't that make them vary good for trading?

: The entire Stack has that value.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

:: Should that be made more clear? --[[User:CoolMatthew|CoolMatthew]] 02:42, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

40d:Loosing

2009-08-25T04:21:44Z

Shardok:

{{D for Dwarf}}

[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=loosing Loosing]: Present participle of the verb "to loose," which means "setting loose" (as in dogs), "causing to be loose" (as in a knot), or "letting fly" (as in arrows). Compare the similar verb "[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=loosening loosening]."

[[Losing]]: The opposite of winning.

-----

Please learn the difference.

40d Talk:Fire

2009-08-25T00:08:06Z

Shardok:

==Putting out fire==

Not that it'll make much difference, as putting out fires in time to save a dwarf any injuries is nigh impossible, save for luck's intervention, but how do you put out fire?

I've been experimenting with this a bit, using the Dwarf Companion to help in this. I've managed to catch dwarfs and their clothing on fire by making paths through low-level magma (1 or 2 depth); No problems there. I do seem to have a few bugs in the next bit, however. My three experimental dwarves, (Each with different stages of fire injuries. One with only his upper body, another with both bodies and limbs at minimal, and another with all body parts, including internal organs in brown. After moving them into water, their clothes lose the flaming tag, with the exclamation points (!!) and flashing signature dissipating as well. However, this does nothing to actually remove the fire's effects. Even using Dwarf Companion's heal feature afterwards, the dwarves steadily lost health in the affected body parts until death, even though they were technically healed and no longer burning, or so the appearance of such was made.

I also tried placing them a Z-level above the Water, upon which, their falling caused an interesting thing to happen. The water immediately surrounding them instantly evaporated, and removed their burning tags, but the effect continued, as well. This makes me believe that the clothes may still be listed as burning, regardless of how they appear, and I am thus going to be trying to remove them from the dwarf, and see where that goes.

In the meantime, anyone got any suggestions? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

==Spreads?==

How does fire spread in the new version. I don't have magma on my map so I haven't been able to experiment.

Maybe someone with experience could write up on the risks, ie how it spreads, how long it burns, how dwarfs react and what can be done to fight/prevent it. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 21:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Could someone test to see what levels of water will extinguish fire somehow? Perhaps a fortress at high risk for fire could have emergency floodgates set up to dump precise reservoirs of water at important areas like the living quarters or food/booze stockpiles.

god save us if it is affected by the mud/blood bug too [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 13:07, 8 November 2007 (EST)

no it ain't the blood bug, it's the fire bug. Someone copy and paste it from the old wiki. --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 22:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that fire spreads to adjucent squares. My fortress catched fire (long story) and wooden barrels and bins on stockpiles burned. When they completety burned out their contents catched fire and many piles of 20 !!leather!!, 20 !!cloth!! and 20 or more !!seeds!! generated '''very''' heavy lags. I didn't pay attention if it spreads diagonally but a burning item on the floor makes all 8 squares around it "warm stone wall" just as magma do to it's 4 directly adjacent squares.--[[User:Another|Another]] 14:26, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a way to intentionally start a fire? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Dig into the side of a pool of lava. Remove a construction holding back lava. Open a wooden door holding back lava. Open a floodgate to lava. Some combination of pumps, stairs, ramps, walls, and stockpiles will allow you to choose what gets set on fire and where. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:59, 9 March 2008 (EST)

Fire doesn't seem to spread by walking near it though... I forbade a few burning corpses and the dwarves had no problem stepping over it without catching fire.

Possibly fire on items like clothing or corpses will only spread to dwarves touching it.

A more informative page than "fire sucks" might be useful. Maybe a list of fire sources, what objects will and won't burn, how fire spreads and measures you can take to limit the damage or stop it. Maybe telling your dwarves to dump water in your hallways to keep a nice [1/7] coating?

In the 2D version 0.23, fire was like an invisible disease - dwarves didn't know they had it, it was contagious, and it killed them. Thus it was a major source of [[fun]]. In this version - I don't know yet. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 09:05, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Fireproof silk? ==

i noticed that cave spider silk clothes dont catch fire. i had a guy incinerated by magma touching him - he managed to move away and his silk clothing was all that was left [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:06, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:If you get silk hot enough for long enough, it'll burn. It can take a while though. Odds are that if he managed to move away, then he wasn't touching the magma long enough to ignite the silk. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Forest Fire ==

I just started a new game near a volcano, in a forest. In the first winter, a fire imp left the caldera, and the forest burst into flame. Anyone see this before? The entire map went up in smoke... I lost 5 dwarves to it.
--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 22:01, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen this multiple times on my current map, haven't lost dwarves, but did have a dwarf caravan run straight into one... As when I tried to pin down what started it and why, all the fire imps were back in the volcano (if they ever left to begin with), but at the exact center of the ring of fire was a pile of groundhog bones - so I think a fire imp wandered out, saw a groundhog, and fried it, causing a massive fire... that or groundhogs spontaneously combust now. Could probably use channels or walls as firebreaks to keep the whole map from burning when it happens, embark with a magma vent that (hopefully) doesn't reach the surface rather than a volcano, or try to close off the top of the volcano. Probably simpler to wall in any surface areas you're using and just tell your dwarves to stay inside when you see a fire though. --[[User:Nethras|Nethras]] 15:02, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

:I had a forest fire the other day - the burn pattern indicated it started in two places approximately simultaneously, in the vicinity of a [[Fire_man|Fire Man]] and a Cougar (though I never saw any bones). The Fire Man had been busy elsewhere with no such effect though, despite killing numerous groundhogs, a couple of Mules, a pet cat, and one of my dwarves.
:The fire didn't manage to enter my encampment, probably due to the foot traffic killing off the vegetation around the entrance, but it did spread across the rest of that z-level. No harm was done to any living creature which encountered it though, as far as I could tell. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:50, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

: Similar situation, I used a forest fire to kill a bunch of satyrs by trapping single satyrs in cage traps. I couldn't kill them otherwise because they aren't hostile and aren't animals, so military and hunters wouldn't touch them, but they do set off cage traps and once one is trapped, the other satyrs stayed close. So I scattered some traps near the caldera and waited; eventually a fire imp popped out, started a fire, and about fifteen satyrs all got roasted by the fire. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

: I've seen the aftermath of similar (burnt forest, caldera, fire imps, missing wildlife) and can verify forest fires are currently (40d) restricted to the same Z-level. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:16, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpile exploit ==

"Fires won't cross an empty stockpile, providing an even fast way to create firebreaks."...not what happened at my own fortress. Maybe it doesn't apply if there's grass underneath? Needs more testing... – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]]
: I'll admit I'm not talking from my own experience. I got it off of the bug reports forum. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25600.0] – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
:I just checked, and fire will go right through as stockpile as if it wasn't there. Thus, I took that part out of the article. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Spontaneous Combustion?==
A bunch of goblin clothes and bodies in my entrance hall just went up in flames mysteriously. There are no fire imps left on the map, the Magma Man is far away in the magma vent near the bottom (10 z-levels and 3 screens away - the site isn't even near the magma pipe). There's just a bunch of smoke and burning goblin clothes. The heck? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:12, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Maybe it was in the bug forum, but I remember hearing of a similar known bug. {racks brain} Something to do with materials left in cages remaining tied to their owner. So if you strip the clothing off a goblin while he's in a cage, then drop the cage into lava, his clothes catch on fire. Or maybe it was the other way around. Assuming, of course, this is an example of this bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:02, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::I did drop a goblin cage into lava... I don't remember actually stripping gear off of him, but he may have dropped something before getting caged... Must find a way to use this offensively... probably involving a goblin cage stockpile near lava, a goblin clothes stockpile near the entrance, and a booze stockpile immediately adjacent... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:What actually happens is thus: When the cage is destroyed by magma, the items inside mysteriously teleport to the precise location the caged goblin was trapped in, on fire. This bug is 100% repeatable and afaik not fixed yet. Hmmm! Replace the trap with a barrel after capture, and you might have a fairly reliable booze bomb. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:: If you figure it out, be sure to post the method in [[Talk:Alcohol#Booze Bombs]]. If you're going to be experimenting, why don't you try testing out the existing theoretical methods?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 14:44, 17 December 2008 (EST)
:::So, I haven't tried it with booze bombs yet, but I have used it for trap hall cleaning (goblins drop so much crap). Its really too bad silk doesn't burn.
:::There seems to be some preconditions to the item teleportation actually working - I think its a cage material thing but it could be a goblin equipment thing. I have had a 0% success rate with wooden cage traps and nickel cage traps. Metal cage traps which will melt in magma seem to trigger the bug upon destruction of the cage.
:::Now, my sample sizes aren't huge, so it could be that those trap types have only caught wrestlers. Since leather items burn up instantly in magma, and silk doesn't seem to have temperature, the goblin will need some metal items to hold the heat when teleported back to the cage trap square. That said, I haven't seen any items teleported if there wasn't also metal (all teleported piles have included metal), so maybe its a metal equipment specific bug.
:::Anyway, this definitely produces fire in the area (I have been using it to burn up leather items dropped by goblins), which means it should ignite barrrels and cause explosions - specific testing is obviously required.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:14, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Image ==

I added an image to the page to show what fire looks like. I don't see many other images like this on the wiki though, so I'm curious as to if this is a good thing or if I should remove it? --[[User:Lulzmango|Lulzmango]] 00:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:It's nice, maybe an alttext and caption text would add to it a good bit too [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Maximizing framerate

2009-08-25T00:06:19Z

Shardok: /* Small Worlds */

== Effect on # of dwarves, framerate calculations ==

I'm not sure how important the number of dwarves is on the framerate. I was getting about 12 to 15 with 22 dwarves, and this has fallen to 9 with 97 dwarves. I think it is more bad pathing, like animals being caught behind doors that causes more problems than the number of units themselves. The addition of 80 goblins had an impact of 1 fps as well... although again, they probably weren't having any trouble path finding to no where. --Gotthard 13:53, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:I typically see a substantial drop in framerate when new immigrants come, and afterward the game's never as fast or responsive. However, I also demand a higher framerate (not less than 40, to avoid annoying interface lagging/jerkiness) than many people seem prepared to tolerate, so our findings aren't inconsistent. You just have more load already and so don't notice a given amount of additional usage as much. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 05:39, 7 December 2007 (EST)

::If this is the case, then I doubt there is a linear relationship associated with the FPS values. The G_FPS might also impact this. Typically, 10-12 more dwarves lowered my FPS by 1 at max, and I have 6 masons making blocks for my castle, and 18 dwarves running around permanently putting them up. I would guess that the FPS drops off fast to begin with, so it takes a lot to go down from 10-9 fps compared to 40-39 fps. --Gotthard 08:35, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:::Yes, this is expected. Framerate changes aren't linear and here's why: Let us imagine that a given computer can process 10,000 game things per second. A framerate of 100 means that the game requires only 100 calculations per update, and therefore can update 100 times/second. A framerate of 1 means the game has to perform 10,000 calculations per update. To drop from 40 to 39 FPS, the game must require ~6 more calculations per update. To drop from 10 to 9 FPS, the game must require ~111 more calculations per update. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)

::Wow, I can't stand things if FPS falls under ~80! Though, running a 2.1Ghz Dual Core and 512M 8600GeForce probably has some bearing on it. Personally, I run my G_FPS at only 10, and FPS_CAP at 200. I haven't gotten to economy sized populations yet with these settings (mostly on purpose cause I also keep my POP_CAP to only 10 until I've gotten the majority of the fortress dug out and a good stock of food and bedrooms, etc. The extra dwarves end up just getting in the way any other time I've tried my play-style. With this setup, I usually average around 150 FPS. Also, I've noticed a difference in FPS if I have the map section open, either single or double pane, moreso when there are a large number of creatures on the map. Simply closing (tabbing) the map got me an increase from ~125 to ~140. Should be worth 2-3 frames at the low FPS levels you guys are talking about. I'm also curious if the FPS counter itself has a significant effect on frames... --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:40, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

:::Dude... you are runnning the game displaying at 10 FPS even though it's 80~200 FPS (IE: Should be pretty damn jerky), and never got an economy sized population. Of course you have a good FPS. Hell, mine was sticking at 100 with 10 dwarves and I just have a ~2 year old straight out of the box PC. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:18, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Weather and Trees ==

Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back. Most saplings have withered and died. The landscape is littered with them. I'm in a Mirthful area, so it's not alignment. I haven't been able to get any trees since I deforested the entire area, and yes, it has been over three years. I'm playing 33d. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 19:50, 5 December 2007 (EST)

:Well I've been playing map for 6 years now, and I've had weather on the entire time, tons of trees have grown back. I've not deforested the ENTIRE area, but from what I understand trees grow back at a proportional rate to the amount of area there was to grow, so it should be better. I think saplings randomly die, perhaps moreso with traffic on them but... I don't have an explanation. --Gotthard 19:23, 6 December 2007 (EST)

::"Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back." Turned on or turned off? Logically, if weather were turned off, trees shouldn't grow to maturity. --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:29, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

:::Trees grow back just fine with weather turned off. I don't know why sometimes most or all the saplings die, but it's not turning weather off that causes it. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:00, 4 January 2008 (EST)

::::N9103, logic has no place here. Begone! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:12, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:::::HA! Tell that to Flingify() ^.^ Most things in DF do get a logical implementation... notable exceptions exist of course, but generally speaking, things follow commonsense. ... So Nya! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

:Is any part of the area you embarked at evil? If so, are they the areas that the trees could grow in? (i.e. a mirthful mountain next to haunted woods) If you're beyond doubt sure that that's not the case, then going on what else has been investigated, I see one of two things: Complete deforestation *stops* tree growth, including saplings; Or, you've got some kind of bug that hasn't been documented yet. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:05, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Economy ==

Can we confirm/disprove the effect of the economy on framerate? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 02:42, 13 December 2007 (EST)

:Not sure what you mean exactly. The economy makes several changes, any of which might potentially impact speed. Can you give more detail on what specifically might potentially be causing a slowdown (or speed boost)? Is there a discussion on the forum that you have in mind? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm pretty sure he's talking about the init setting and turning it off. The 'potentially' part you mentioned is what he wanted clarification on. Does turning the setting off before the economy activates improve pre-economy performance? There might indeed be people out there that are willing to lose one of the cooler features for a much improved framerate. A good question is does turning that setting off prevent you from ever gaining an economy (when you decide to turn the option back on) should you pass the point where it should have activated? --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:27, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

== One Way Stairs ==

"Use ...multiple one-way stairways to connect any two spots where lots of dwarves will want to be"

How do you make a one way stair? I tried searching here, and on the forum, but didn't find it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]]

:I mean to use paired up and down staircases instead of up/down ones. This suggestion is now removed because I'm not sure it actually makes a difference (it's safer for your dwarves, but I don't see a difference in game speed) [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 14:50, 2 January 2008 (EST)

::How is a single-floor staircase (down+up) any safer than using a multiple-floor staircase (down+down/up+up)?

::Or for that matter, how is it different than making all your staircases down/up (minus bottom level of course)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:40, 3 January 2008 (EST)

:::If a dwarf falls down a multi-level up/down staircase, he may die or be badly injured.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 22:52, 3 January 2008 (EST)

::::What would cause a dwarf to fall down stairs aside from combat?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:59, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:::::Haven't a clue. I just know that several people have reported their dwarves getting killed or maimed that way.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 15:17, 5 January 2008 (EST)

::::I used to use the up/down staircases for a central mineshaft until I had multiple dwarves become maimed/die when fighting on the stairs. I now use a spiral staircase design instead. I don't think anything BUT combat makes them fall, but if they charge a goblin snatcher and miss, there's no promise they won't end up 15 levels down missing all their limbs. --Gotthard 11:08, 7 January 2008 (EST)

:::::How about using floor hatches every level? -- Digger

::::::Those cause annoying blinkage. --[[User:Silfir|Silfir]] 07:17, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::Don't use stairs at all. Use ramps, the distance to travel a ramp is only 1, compared to a stair, which is two. (ramps, step on it, your down auto; stairs, you step on it, then you step down.)

== Weather and windmills ==

To BurnedToast: You seem to be right that turning weather off doesn't stop windmills from working. I wasn't sure where I got that impression, but after looking it up, it was from several instances on IRC where people came in, said "The windmill isn't making power :(", were told to "turn weather on", went "Ah ha!", and never said that it didn't make them start working. (After I while I started suggesting it too since nobody had reported it not working, until recently.) So, hmm. I just switched a fort that had weather to not having it, and yeah, the windmills all still work. So I built a new one - also works. Then I generated a new world with weather off, started a new fort in it, built a windmill, and it produced 20 power. Oh well. --[[User:SL|SL]] 13:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Multiple CPUs/Cores ==

As far as I have tested, DF uses 3 threads. It seems to put all its efforts in a single one, but even so, the other two still take cpu time, so having a dual-core machine still helps even if the threads are synchronized (and it isn't such a huge difference). I assume one of the threads link the display to the game core while the other runs the input buffer. I'd have to do more testing. [[User:Soulwynd|Soulwynd]] 23:37, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bulging Histories ==

Any chance history plays a role in framerates? I have a fairly beefy machine and was regularly getting 100FPS in my first few forts, but after about 15 forts and 30 adventure modes (I'm quite suicidal), I can't get my FPS above 35 even on initial embark and a 3x3 fortress plot. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 12:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well... from that data, that's likely. Personally, I play all my forts on separate worlds. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:12, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:I think I have to second the idea of (small histories == higher framerates) I've been playing a lot of small and smaller worlds, and even when I pick larger than normal sites, my frames seem to stay up better than on standard worlds. I'll test at some point just how well a Full Local map holds up in a Pocket world. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:04, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Disconnection ==

I've found it '''VERY''' important, in terms of framerates, not to block all paths between your fortress and the outside world, either with raised bridges, or with forbidden doors. I'm not certain about walls, as I haven't desired "permanent" blocking, but temporary, to prevent thives and the like. Infact, pathfinding errors from those I desire to keep out are exactly what crashes the framerate. 
 
I'm talking about '''50% loss''', and that's just to start. If you continue to block the pathfinding, It's possible to have it completely crawl to a stop, as in 0-1 FPS! 
It's a shame that such a primitive defense results in such a catastrophic failure of the pathing system. :( 
 
As I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, I'm adding it here, and will eventually add it to the main article if no one else feels like pretty-ing it up for display. 
--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:That's happening for you? I've been setting up an elaborate set of bridges and floodgates that serves as the only entrance to my fortress, and have closed my dwarves off inside on numerable occasions and it caused little more than make them cancel tasks that required them to leave the fortress.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 15:57, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::Have you turned off invasions as well? I used to do that when I played with invasions off to develop my management abilities. I did it now in three different worlds (smaller) and have had it happen every time. The framerate loss began as soon as a goblin/kobold tried to do mischief and pull a lever, as determined in the error log. I would assume that thieves/snatchers would likely cause similar frame-crashes, but that much isn't verified on my part. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:04, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I have invasions on, although any attackers have died rather quickly.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 21:48, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::::Hey look! invaders! I closed the gates and lowered the bridge, but my framerate didn't drop. In fact, just as the invaders got there my framerate went back up from a puzzlingly low 40 back up to a regular 90.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:19, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::::I've tested it again with a couple more waves of goblins, and I've come to the conclusion that the preceding immense slowdown is while the goblins are on the map but not in view. This makes me think that either hidden units contribute to lag more, or the difficult terrain in my area causes their pathfinding to temporarily "freak out."--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 1:03, 3 April 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, it would seem obvious that invaders have glitches that have direct effects on framerates... just not well defined effects :-/ The "not in view" part seems true enough since the 'mischief-makers' are always invisible until discovered, and my forts generally have been rather far from invasion points. Looks like this is gonna be on hold for the page until someone does some '''extensive''' testing. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:04, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::::::I'll be happy to start testing it as soon as I start establishing some more long-term fortresses.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 11:23, 4 April 2008 (EST)

:[[User_talk:Squirrelloid#Animals_try_to_path_through_tightly_closed_doors|Squirrelloid]]'s done some tests that end up proving the same point, but with animals instead of thieves/snatchers. Both of those groups use flawed pathfinding that doesn't properly account for created obstacles that are passable under certain conditions that aren't true at the time of the pathfind. (Doors being forbidden, or bridges raised for the thieves, and doors being designated as pet forbidden for the animals.) I still say that failed pathfinds cause 90% of framerate loss. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:24, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

:I've uploaded a zip of my errorlog.txt that encompasses a decent, but not overly long amount of time. The unzipped file is 22MB! Thankfully, text compresses very well, and the zip is only 387K. <99% of the file is failed mischief from either goblins or kobolds. [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=167] --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:29, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

: At some point the article on Maximizing Framerate should include a section that deals with player actions that can have an impact. Things like connecting a large open pipe system to a running water source, mass-designating stone for dumping, and closing off your fortress should all be listed as cons. I'm doing some research right now into the benefits of intelligent [[traffic area]] designations as well. For example, rooms larger than 11x11 with only two doors should have a high-traffic line linking the two doors, and two low-traffic "curbs" on either edge, to prevent the Dijkstra half of A* from spending extra cycles looking in dumb places. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 18:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

== Dual Screens ==

I just put a second monitor on my computer, partly so I could fullscreen DF with the wiki in another screen. However, running DF in fullscreen make sit take up one screen like normal, and the other goes black. Ckciking the black monitor causes DF to stretch across the monitors. Since there is info here about running DF in one monitor to save CPU cycles, I was wondering is anyone could help. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]]

:I don't understand what you're saying. Dwarf Fortress does not do that on my computer. Operating system, perhaps? By the way, sign your comments using <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:24, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

:When you enter fullscreen mode with most graphics apis (such as OpenGL) you will take full control, which is why the other screen goes black. Your best bet is to run in windowed mode with the window size set to your resolution. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:01, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

::I had this same thought; and did some measurement - on Windows with the "windows standard" theme and default fonts, the room needed for the chrome is 27 pixels vertical, 8 pixels horizontal. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 10:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== temperature ==

From the article "" You're well-advised to stick with "warm" or "hot" fortress sites if you turn temperature off and your source of water is a stream."" --- I cannot understand that. --[[User:Catpaw|Catpaw]] 08:29, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

:If you turn temperature off, and you start on a cold location with a stream, the stream will be frozen and never thaw.[[User:DaBing|DaBing]]

So wait, it says some "rather nice lava warming effects" are turned off, but what are these exactly? Can I still dump stone in lava? What stops working? [[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 17:09, 18 February 2009 (EST)

:You can still dump stone in lava, it just won't melt as there is no heat transfer. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 21:00, 18 February 2009 (EST)

== New 40d# releases and the Acceleration program ==

So I'm sure most of you are aware of the new 40d releases (I think it's on 40d7) that toady has been putting out that incorporate better handling of OpenGL. In so far as I understand, he is combining the acceleration program into Dwarf Fortress, so they come 'packaged' together right out of the box. Also, the thread that the wiki is linking to ( http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27262.0 ) is stated to be obsolete and sends the user to the 40d# thread ( http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27262.0 ). I think we should update/remove/replace the 'acceleration program' portion of this article to point users to the new 40d# releases, unless we want to wait until Toady releases something final before changing anything? If do decide to change it, we might want to make people aware that there WAS an acceleration program, but it has been superseded by the new 40d# releases. Thoughts? --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:24, 6 January 2009 (EST)

=== Turn Mouse Support Off ===

With the graphics-accelerated versions of 40d above, I've found that turning mouse support completely off ( [MOUSE:NO] in init.txt ) has had greater improvement in framerate than anything else I've tried. Can anyone else confirm this? (nammyung)

== Small Worlds ==

I noticed mention of small worlds. I have no doubt that they probably reduce lag, but I will argue the creation time issue. My experience so far has been that "pocket" and "smaller" sized worlds take longer to gen than "Small" and "Medium," because of the shear volume of rejected attempts in the initial creation stage. My experience is entirely with 40d and 40d9. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 01:42, 10 February 2009 (EST)
:You don't get many rejects with the default configurations for worlds. When you start changing those, yes, rejects will happen, especially if you're trying to fit as much into a pocket sized one as you would into a small. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Currency

2009-08-24T23:26:19Z

Shardok:

40d Talk:Moghopper

2009-08-24T21:06:30Z

Shardok:

== D For Dwarf ==

Does this really fall under any of these criteria? It may include witty humour, not-so-witty humour, bad humour, in-jokes related to the game, and references to the Bay12 forums. Sure, it has single "joke" but it's something that anyone will get instantly that doesn't really take a giant notice on the top to inform people of. Some people see that notice and assume the article is a complete joke, because some articles with it are, but if the page only has a minor little joke in it I don't think it should qualify unless the joke also could cause major confusion. Some humour should be expected in most articles, and unless it could be excessive or confusing it's not like it needs the giant notice of "possible" humour.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
*I'm inclined to say "no, it doesn't", so I've removed the tag for now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
in-jokes related to the game
::Actually it '''IS''' an in-joke from the game. Look at Line 37 in the DF/Raw/creature_other.txt file. It's what a Dwarf thinks of when he "prefers" that animal. And Frankly if you're going to be that strict about the use of D for Dwarf then it should be removed from the following pages as well:
::*[[Anvil]] (Only one joke, in italics, on an otherwise legitimate page)
::*[[Camel]] (only one joke, in italics, on an otherwise legitimate page)
::*[[Batman]] (I can't even see the joke there, if it IS a joke, it's not obvious and there is no link to the Bay12 forums.)
::*[[Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured]] (although a bug usually is great fodder for jokes, this one is peppered with "minor little jokes" that aren't likely to cause confusion, after all, IT'S A BUG!)
::*[[Cave Adaptation]] (The D for Dwarf should be moved to the "Proper Perspective" section, since that's the only place with a joke in it.)
::*[[Fish dissector]] (Oh I get it, funny, ha-ha; the useless job gets a D for Dwarf... then how come [[Milker]], [[Cheese maker]], [[Animal Dissector]] and [[Soaper]] don't get this label?? They all have some kind of joke or another. In fact, I'm inclined to go and add the D for Dwarf template to those as well.)
::*[[Grizzly bear]] (The joke is in italics and it's a quote from Jimmy Buffet... How is Jimmy Buffet relevant to DF?? (although if I found out he was a DF fan, I'd squeal like a little girl, cuz Jimmy Buffet is AWESOME.))
::*[[Hippo]] (a legitimate article peppered with cute, non-confusing jokes.)
::*[[Loosing]] (this just appears to be a rant, and the whole page should be deleted)
::*[[Quarry Bush]] (legitimate article, the joke paragraph should be italicize or set off in a different subsection with a D for Dwarf label on it.)

:: So unless either of you are willing to go though and clean up those other pages, I'm reverting this page back to have the D for Dwarf template. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:18, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

::: Re: Camels, That is not just "one" minor joke, it takes up well over 3/4ths of the article. Sure, it's all on the same thing, but it's only One joke. The rest of them I made changes to so they meet your status, and again, this article does not need the D for Dwarf title, and unless you can give good reason and convince someone else to your side, I doubt you'll get anywhere on this. Just saying since other articles have it this one should too is kinda pointless, especially when not all of those articles needed it and when you're idea of "just one joke" is incredibly skewed and can mean anywhere from 2 words to 3 paragraphs. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

40d:Quarry bush

2009-08-24T21:00:28Z

Shardok:

{{Crop|color=#999|seed_color=#FFF|character=♣|name=Quarry bush|seed=Rock nut|edible=No|cookable=If processed|alcohol=No|rarity=Common|spring=1|summer=1|autumn=1|habitat=Subterranean|uses=''
|other_products=
* [[Quarry bush leaves]] (Process to bag)
}}

The '''quarry bush''' is one of the six known [[subterranean]] [[crop]]s, and as such it may only be grown underground. Quarry bush [[seed]]s are known as '''rock nuts'''. They can be planted in [[Spring]], [[Summer]] and [[Autumn]].

Quarry bushes may be processed at a [[farmer's workshop]] into [[bag]]s of quarry bush leaves, which then must be cooked at the [[kitchen]] to be edible. You will need an empty bag to be available for this task.

Processing quarry bushes at a [[farmer's workshop]] will produce 5 quarry bush leaves for every plant in a given stack of quarry bushes. Processing one bush will require one [[bag]] and can yield 5 leaves from each plant in stack.
[[Cooking]] quarry bush leaves can result in up to 160 meals in a single stack of Prepared Food, thus saving space and [[barrel]]s. In a fortress that relies on selling large expensive stacks of Prepared Food, quarry bush leaves are great filler: a lavish meal made from [[whip wine]] and [[cheese|dwarven cheese]] with two stacks of quarry bush leaves for filler is worth almost ten times more than an easy meal made from wine and cheese alone.

Rock nuts may be purchased on embark.

Quarry bushes cannot be [[still|brewed]] into [[alcohol]].

*Grow time: 500
*Plant value: 4
*Leaf value: 5
*Seasons: Spring, Summer, and Autumn

{{D for Dwarf}}

Much debate exists amongst dwarven scholars as to why the quarry bush, which never sees the light of the sun, should grow leaves. While many of them have ultimately written the question off as unanswerable, some strange few have claimed that the bush is proof that they are nothing more than automata in a simulation of dwarven living, and that one of the mysterious controllers is dropping not-so-subtle hints like the quarry bush that there is another reality beyond the one all dwarves experience. Unfortunately, said dwarves all too often have shortened lifespans as contemplating such great mysteries generally leads to melancholy or other madness.

==See Also==
*[[List of crops]]

[[Category:Indoor crops]]
[[Category:Spring crops]]
[[Category:Summer crops]]
[[Category:Autumn crops]]
[[Category:Non-brewable plants]]

40d:Hippo

2009-08-24T20:59:46Z

Shardok:

{{CreatureInfo|name=Hippo|symbol=H|color=rgb(192, 192, 192)|
bones=12|chunks=12|meat=12|fat=10|skulls=1|skin=Yes|
biome=
* Any [[tropical]] [[river]] or [[lake]]
}}

'''Hippos''' seem to be peaceful, friendly and not very intelligent [[river]] [[creatures]] with a strong tendency to make loud noises while... reproducing. But this is not quite correct. Every [[dwarf]] who was courageous enough to settle near the ever growing colonies of the hippos will soon describe them as the monstrous beasties they are: stealthy, bloodthirsty killers who will assassinate every innocent dwarf on sight!

== Bloody Rites of the Hippos ==

Hippos travel through their territory as a swarm, harmless to most other [[animals]]. When they meet similar semi-intelligent groups like [[immigrants]] or [[Siege|invaders]], suddenly an individual Hippo's blood thirst awakens. After the herd massacres whoever they stumble across, this warlord hippo (who is given a cool name) will fight any [[humanoid]] lifeforms to death, actively supported by the brave rest of the herd.

== How to fight Hippos ==

In one word: Don't. Unless you have a strong army of [[spearman|Spear-]] and [[marksdwarf|Marksdwarves]], Hippos will pulverize your [[dwarves]]. Just set up long lines of [[spike]]d Hippo [[traps]] or dig [[channel|channels]] around your entrance. The biggest problem is [[water]]. Dwarves will drink the pesky stuff if there is no [[alcohol]], making themselves living targets with a "drown me" sign on them.

== How to fight Hippos in Adventure Mode ==

So you've discovered a river! Good for you! Hippos are one of the good reasons to not throw off those clothes and go skinny dipping just like that. They may, at first, appear like they are horses drowning. Don't be a hero and dive in after them, you want to make sure first. Then, if you aren't accompanied by numerous [[Marksman|bowmen]] or [[Marksman|crossbowmen]], and they are indeed hippos, it would be a good time to leave. Otherwise you can attack them, but don't be too sure you'll win.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:HIPPO]
[NAME:hippo:hippos:hippo]
[TILE:'H'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[MODVALUE:3]
[GENPOWER:3]
[PREFSTRING:strength]
[IVORY]
[DIURNAL]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL][PET]
[PETVALUE:400]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[MAXAGE:40:50]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:5][CHILDNAME:hippo calf:hippo calves]
[FAT:10]
[BIOME:RIVER_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:RIVER_TROPICAL_BRACKISHWATER]
[BIOME:RIVER_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:LAKE_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:LAKE_TROPICAL_BRACKISHWATER]
[BIOME:LAKE_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Grizzly bear

2009-08-24T20:57:57Z

Shardok:

{{CreatureInfo|name=Grizzly Bear|symbol=B|color=rgb(128, 128, 0)|bones=9|chunks=9|meat=9|fat=7|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome= * Forest taiga
* Any temperate forest}}

'''Grizzly bears''' are fairly tough [[creature]]s, and will gladly guzzle any [[Alcohol|alcoholic beverages]] they can get access to; even straight from under the [[Elf|elves]]' noses. Yes, you ''will'' have to pick up the tab for their party.

<blockquote>
''So I took ole' Buddy Bear by his island sized paw and I led him over to the [[still]]. Now he's a' sniffin' around that thing 'cause he's smellin' somethin' good. I gave him one of them jugs of [[whip wine|honeydew vine water]], he downed it upright, (looked like one of them damn bears in the circus sippin' sasparilly in the moonlight.) I gave him another and another and another 'fore I knew it, he'd downed eight of 'em and commenced to do the Bear Dance. Two sniffs, a snort, a fly, a turn and a grunt; and it was so simple like the jitterbug... it plumb evaded me.'' - Jimmy Buffett, ''God's Own Drunk''
</blockquote>

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:BEAR_GRIZZLY]
[NAME:grizzly bear:grizzly bears:grizzly bear]
[TILE:'B'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[MODVALUE:3]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:2]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[NO_WINTER][MEANDERER]
[GENPOWER:3]
[PETVALUE:500]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][NATURAL][PET]
[PREFSTRING:strength]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:20:30]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:grizzly bear cub:grizzly bear cubs]
[FAT:7]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME_FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME_ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:200]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Fish dissector

2009-08-24T20:57:05Z

Shardok:

{{Skill
| color = #00f
| skill = Fish Dissector
| speciality = Fish Dissector
| profession = [[Fishery Worker]]
| job name = Fish Dissecting
| tasks =
* Extract from a raw fish
| workshop = [[Fishery]]
}}

A '''fish dissector''' is a [[dwarf]] who can make [[extracts]] from certain [[fish]] caught in animal [[trap]]s, such as the [[moghopper]].

There is little use other than as [[trade]] goods for fish extracts currently, which makes [[migrant]] fish dissectors excellent candidates for your [[military]] or for any other minor tasks.

{{Skill Box|Fishery Worker|#228|#448|
* [[Fish cleaner]]
* [[Fish dissector]]
* [[Fisherdwarf]]
}}

{{Skills}}
[[category: Skills]]
[[category: Jobs]]

40d:Cave adaptation

2009-08-24T20:56:15Z

Shardok:

'''Cave adaptation''' is a condition that happens to your dwarves after spending too much time underground. It is unclear as to how much time underground causes cave adaptation, and there is no way to tell if a dwarf has cave adaptation simply by looking at their various stats.

When a dwarf with cave adaptation goes outside, the dwarf will gain one of two negative [[thought]]s. If the dwarf has mild cave adaptation, he will gain the thought 'irritated by the sun recently', and suffer no other effects. A dwarf with serious cave adaptation will gain the thought, 'nauseated by the sun recently' and will [[vomit]] all over the ground. While vomiting a dwarf is unable to defend himself, which can be a problem during combat. A dwarf with cave adaptation may end up with a [[stun]] status when exposed to the sun.

A dwarf with the description, 'likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather' is no more resistant to cave adaptation than a regular dwarf is. Likewise, dwarves that like working outdoors may even have cave adaptation.

Fortunately, cave adaptation is not a serious issue. The unhappy thought from serious cave adaptation is strong (strong enough to totally negate the "slept in a room like a personal palace" happy thought), and can easily push already unhappy dwarves over the edge, but it is very controllable. Setting up a meeting area outside and above ground with items that cause powerful happy thoughts: very valuable [[statue]]s are the best bet here. Be sure to wall it in or otherwise protect it so the area is not a liability during a [[siege]]. Dwarves will come out, admire the items in the meeting area, get a happy thought, then vomit all over themselves. If you do it right, you break about even. Prolonged, regular exposure to sunlight WILL cure cave adaptation, so this technique could be considered a controlled catharsis. Dwarves who vomit all the time don't seem to get hungry any faster.

If your [[trade depot]] is outside, cave adaptation can create the amusing scene of thirty dwarves carrying goods to the depot all emerging and throwing up at once. Fortunately, the merchants seem to take this in stride, and it doesn't seem to negatively affect negotiations.

== Preventing and curing cave adaptation ==
The easiest way to deal with cave adaption is not to go outside at all. On most maps this is quite manageable, e.g. with traders bringing enough wood, making bolts from your own cattle (no hunting)...

Curing and prevention of cave adaptation are achieved through the same means: regular, extended exposure to ''outdoor'' sunlight. ''Indoor'' sunlight will not treat, nor will it trigger, cave adaptation. An ''outdoor'' area to fight cave adaptation may be accomplished by having a [[meeting area]] or [[statue garden]] exposed to sunlight, with no roof. An [[armor stand]] or [[weapon rack]] placed outside in the same manner and made into a [[barracks]] for [[sparring]] will prevent cave adaptation in your [[military]].

Occasional or brief exposures to sunlight cannot prevent cave adaption.

Negative [[thoughts]] cannot be prevented in those who suffer cave adaptation, but can be treated with a really, really awesome dining room.

If all else fails, simply give up on the outside world and have your dwarves spend the rest of your fortress's life lurking in the bottom of a dark cave gnawing on a cold [[plump helmet]].

You can also remove this tag from the dwarves RAW files if you really wish too. Under "creature_standard.txt" remove the [CAVE_ADAPT] line and save.

{{D for dwarf}}

== Proper Perspective ==
Dwarven philosophers have pointed out that this odd ''human'' labeling misconceives an advantage for a problem and that in fact "sun adaption" is rather something to worry about. Blinding and losing control over bowel movements is nothing but a strong and appropriate warning signal from exposing the so amazingly adapted dwarven eye to the piercing sunlight. More so, since there is no good reason for exposing oneself to the various uncontrollable surface dangers in the first place. Does not the best wood come from tower caps? How can one spend "too much" time underground? How is the dwarven adaption to its natural environment (which is, by the way, a birth gift, not acquired) objectionable? Is it the human eye that picks out the greatest gems from inconspicuous rock? Or, in the words of Zuglares: "Does even a human look into the sun?" Did not the great poet Uristophanes say "Is there ore? Is there gem? Is there proper rock? Does the purple one spread its shield? What are you longing for, clouded mind?"

Pragmatically put, dwarves belong inside, buildings belong inside, if it means showing traders our great halls, all the better. If one lusts after strange surface crops, there are other ways. A true dwarf strives for his own tree farm. The hunters fate is that of a pitiful outcast, sacrificing his sanity to serve his home. Who misses the petty glowball when one can admire legendary halls and artwork? Give the surface what it deserves - your refuse.

== See also ==
* [[Vomit]]

[[Category:Lore]]

40d:Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured

2009-08-24T20:55:46Z

Shardok:

Your cat kills a [[vermin]].

It reaches down to pick it up.

It realizes it has no hands, cries out "My hands! My beautiful hands! Someone has chopped off my beautiful han... wait, I'm a cat. I don't have hands. Right," and then continues on with its business.

This error message is actually caused by an old bug in the system which was reintroduced in 40d. When a [[pet]] [[cat]] kills a [[vermin]] it will attempt to pick it up and carry it to their owner, to bask in the display of gratitude that every cat owner shows upon being gifted small dead animals.

However the cat's mouth does not possess the <tt>[GRASP]</tt> tag, so it registers as unable to pick up the item and so generates this error message. Frustratingly, secondary programming picks up the task and lets the cat carry the vermin anyway.

== Fixing the bug ==
As your cat and vermin population expands this message becomes more and more common, but it is easy enough to fix by [[modding]] (the exact steps are explained below). You don't even have to generate a new [[world]].

'''Step One'''

Open <tt>raw/objects/body_default.txt</tt> and add a new entry:

[BODY:CAT_MOUTH]
[BP:CAT_MOUTH:mouth][CONTYPE:HEAD][MOUTH][SMALL][EMBEDDED][APERTURE][GRASP]

This creates a new body part in your dwarf universe. Specifically, a mouth which can pick things up. Now we need to attach this body part to the cat!

'''Step Two'''

So open <tt>raw/objects/creature_domestic.txt</tt> and edit the cat to:

[CREATURE:CAT]
[NAME:cat:cats:cat]
[TILE:'c'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[VERMINHUNTER]
[PETVALUE:20]
[CARNIVORE][NATURAL][PET]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][BENIGN]
[PREFSTRING:aloofness]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:'''CAT_MOUTH''']
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:3]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:kitten:kittens]
[FAT:1]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[MUNDANE]

And you're done.

Note that you don't have to edit the <tt>[ATTACK]</tt> line, even though it contains a <tt>MOUTH</tt> too. This is because the "mouth" in this case is referring to a Tag, not a Body-part (you'll note that our <tt>CAT_MOUTH</tt> has a mouth tag, too).

{{Errors FAQ}}

40d:Batman

2009-08-24T20:55:17Z

Shardok:

{{CreatureInfo|name=Batman|symbol=b|color={{COLOR:0:0:1}}|butcher=no|bones=4|fat=N/A|skin=N/A|skulls=1|chunks=N/A|meat=N/A|biome=* Subterrenean [[chasm]]|wiki=no}}

Half [[man]], half [[bat]]. These weak [[creatures]] are commonly found around [[chasm]] areas. As a properly-armed [[dwarf]] can easily take them down with sufficient [[armour]]/weapons, they provide good military training. However, an unarmed no-military skilled dwarf can take one down easily without weapons or much armor. Caution is still advised when dealing them in a group at once and near or in the chasm itself as there are more dangerous creatures than Batmen that dwell in them.

They can fly and are sometimes armed with [[weapon]]s.

{{D for Dwarf}}

''Some things to watch out for when dealing with batmen:''
 They show a preference for working individually, paired up with a different birdman of some type or with [[nightwing]]s.
 They are most likely to target the dwarf whose "comedian" attribute is at the highest level.
 They are exceptional detectives: given enough preparation time, they can defeat any foe.
 Their default identities are a secret. If you turn this off, their chasm will flood your fortress with [[noble]]s instead.
 They can breathe in space.
 They are vengeance, they are the night.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:BATMAN]
[NAME:batman:batmen:batman]
[TILE:'b'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[PATTERNFLIER][FLIER]
[GENPOWER:4]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]
[PREFSTRING:mystery]
[BODY:HUMANOID_FLIER:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Humanoids]]

40d:Anvil

2009-08-24T20:53:03Z

Shardok:

Anvils are required to build [[forge]]s, either conventional or [[magma forge|magma powered]]. At least one is absolutely required if your fortress intends to do ''any'' metalworking whatsoever, including [[weaponsmith]]ing, [[armorsmith]]ing, [[metalsmith]]ing and [[metal craft]]ing.

Smithing an anvil uses the metalsmith skill.

Since the only way to make an anvil is with a metalsmith's forge, your first anvil must be sourced from outside of your colony, either before embark or by later trading. Anvils require three [[metal]] [[bars]] to be [[smith]]ed at a forge - once you have one to begin with. As this is an infinite loop, the origins of the first anvil are hard to discern*.

== Acquiring an Anvil ==

A standard (no quality) iron anvil is included by default in [[starting builds|starting equipment]], arriving with your dwarves in your [[wagon]]. If you choose not to bring an anvil, you are refunded the 1000 point cost, to be used for other purchases of items or skills. You will then have to [[trade]] for your first anvil with the dwarven (autumn) or [[human]] [[caravan]]s that usually (but not always!) carry one or more [[iron]] anvils (at a cost of 1000☼), and/or [[steel]] anvils (at a cost of 3000☼). If this fails the first time around, you may also request one from the [[dwarven liaison]] or [[human]] [[guild representative]], if you are willing to pay an increased price to guarantee that at least one anvil arrives with next year's caravan.

Once you have an anvil and have built a [[forge]], [[smith]]ing an anvil requires three bars of metal.

Tearing down a forge retrieves the anvil used to build it, which can then be stored, traded, [[melt]]ed, or re-used to build another forge.

== Anvil Properties ==

Anvils may be made of [[iron]], [[steel]] or [[adamantine]]. Rarely, dwarves in [[strange mood]]s will make anvils out of other metals, and these can be used in any forge. The material used does not seem to affect the performance of the forge. Neither does the anvil's quality, although anvils have a high [[value|base cost]], so quality greatly increases their value.

Anvils are considered [[furniture]] and will be stored in a furniture [[stockpile]] if not utilized in a forge.

== Anvil Origins? ==

{{d for dwarf}}

:* One theory of the anvils origin is that a dwarf struck by a [[strange mood]] made one of [[stone]] or [[bone]]. Another more radical theory put forward by dwarven [[philosopher]] Sodel Tomemfikod is that the first one was made of [[wood]] in a similar manner. This was deemed a heresy and he was later sentenced to be hammered for being a [[elf]] sympathizer by an angry [[mayor]] who had a strange fondness for [[glass]].

[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Furniture]]

40d:Milker

2009-08-24T20:48:28Z

Shardok:

{{Skill
| color = rgb(128,128,0)
| skill = Milker
| speciality = Milker
| profession = [[Farmer]]
| job name = Milking
| tasks =
* {{k|m}} [[Milk]] Creature
| workshop =
* [[Farmer's workshop]]
}}

A '''milker''' is a dwarf that will [[milk]] [[creature]]s in a [[Farmer's workshop]]. Currently{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, the only milkable creatures are [[purring maggot]]s (to milk something it has to be carryable, and the only milkable thing you can carry is a purring maggot), though [[civilization]]s seem to milk other creatures off-screen (and [[trade]] the milk with you).

Unless you embark on a suitable [[chasm]], milkers tend to be only as useful as [[peasant]]s. Suggested tasks include:
* Military
* Stone hauler
* Any other task almost

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Soaper

2009-08-24T20:46:30Z

Shardok:

{{Skill
| color = rgb(128,128,0)
| skill = Soaper
| speciality = Soaper
| profession = [[Farmer]]
| job name = Soap Maker
| tasks =
* Make [[soap]]

| workshop = [[Alchemist's laboratory]]
}}

A '''soaper''' is a [[dwarf]] who creates [[soap]] from [[tallow]] and [[lye]] at the [[Alchemist's laboratory]]. This is one of the least useful roles in the [[fortress]] because any dwarf can be assigned the task and yield the same result since soap has no quality modifier; the only difference is faster production. Additionally, in fortresses without [[sand]] (which is required to produce the 3 clear glass vials needed for the laboratory), the soap making profession is entirely worthless. Thus, soapers are typically excellent candidates to be drafted into the [[military]] or full-time [[hauling]] duty, or otherwise re-trained in another [[profession]].

At present soap has no different effect than any other [[block]], but given that the base value of soap is 25☼ multiplied by the [MODVALUE:] of the creature whose fat it is made from, soap can be very valuable to build with. It is also the best way to get [[value]] out of [[megabeast]] [[fat]] (plus,admit it, a block of Hydra or Dragon soap is just cool - and ''very'' valuable!).

:''"Those who wash earth from their face, I shall wash from my face."'' Sumu, Goddess of Earth, Tome of the Elders, Book III

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Loosing

2009-08-24T20:45:48Z

Shardok:

Yeah, normal prose style fits better than sounding like the OED. Should we go completely overboard and give pronunciation advice too? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:30, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:If you'd like to. This is a silly page - do with it what you will! Except, don't make it serious. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:11, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== -_- ==

Just because I made one mistake... --[[User:Peewee]], unsigned

:You aren't the only one. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:53, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Delete? ==

People still make this mistake. I don't see anything wrong with trying to show people Exactly how they're wrong, rather than just a simple redirect, which they may never notice that could cause them to still think it's spelled loosing, and in some cases go through and replace an entire articles use of the word lose with the word loose. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:45, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Trading

2009-08-23T22:40:16Z

Shardok: /* Trade Depot Color */

{{Archive|
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.
}}

== Culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Trading flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
'''Re: Adeptable's changes''' I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:::Ack, somehow didn't see this. Empty bins will still show up as Trading in the bring goods to depot menu, unmark them and your dwarves will haul them back to where they're needed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::Surely the bins' "Trading" status disappears after the Trader leaves? I mean, I've never noticed them as still being marked for "Trading" when the next caravan arrives next season. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 22:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

 

== How many wagons? ==

I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==

Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot?

I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)

:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)

:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.
:::::Auto Hotkey thingy. Heard it works wonders. Never tried it though.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== Merchant moods ==

My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?

:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== No more dwarven caravan ==

So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)

::I'm on year 13 of my most recent fortress and the Dwarven caravan declined to show up this year, after 12 years of no problem. I still don't meet the requirements for the Incoming King. In a previous game I did meet those requirements, and that did not interfere with the caravan (though the liason stopped letting me place orders once the king arrived). Anyway, I don't think my current fort has anything in common with what you've described, other than a mysteriously missing caravan after not damaging previous ones. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 00:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::It appears my problem was caused by a brief goblin siege that occurred when the caravan was supposed to be showing up. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==

I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::is this still true? i was unwittingly stealing everything off the merchants via the stocks screen. i dont have any steel yet, as i've not found any flux or iron ore. but every now and again, i noticed i had a bunch of steel/iron weapons/bolts/armo(u)r, so designated it all for melting, etc, etc.. eventually, i chose to 'dump' everything to see where they were getting it, and they were stripping the merchants of all their goods/clothes/everything metal xD will they come and siege me anytime soon? my army's not ready yet! i do give good profit margins (20%+), but i'm sure the stuff i nick is much more valuable :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::I've noticed that starving dwarves appear to be happy to steal food from merchants. I'm running 0.28.181.40d, and, being new to this, almost experienced [[fun]] due to lack of food. The dwarven caravan arrived in the nick of time, and rather to my surprise once they got close a clump of dwarves started hobbling their way over to the caravan. Once they got to it they started following it back to the depot (at full speed, not sure why), and then made off with a plump helmet each once the merchants started unpacking. Obviously food is rather less valuable than steel, but theoretically this too could tip the merchants into loss if you didn't buy much, assuming that profit/loss accounting is done this way. --[[User:Jenesis|Jenesis]] 19:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

== Wagon movement ==

I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)

They can, it just requires 7 tiles instead of 3 --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 04:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Arrival dates ==

Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:I've kept track over about 5 years. The Dwarf caravans seem to arrive around the 15th or 16th of Limestone and leave about the same time in Sandstone. The Human caravans seem to arrive around the 12th to 14th of Hematite and leave in Malachite. I don't have any data yet for the Elves. Once I get some more data points, I'll edit the wiki to add this info. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 17:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

:: Here I've got elves arriving the 11th of Granite. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::16th of hematite for humans here. 40d. Elves 11th too --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::They're supposed to leave one month to the day after they arrive - that's the same day number, next month. For me, I've seen dwarf caravans arrive as early as the 10th, and as late as the 17th (but usually toward the first part of that, 10-12th). (Usually right after the first dogs whelp, but that's from the Growers Almanac.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Wagons and magma==
A dwarven trade caravan passing over a magma channel on its way to my trade depot recently caught fire. Naturally, this caused lots of [[fun]], but I'm a bit perplexed by it. There was nothing flammable on the bridge - in fact, the magma beneath was 1/7 deep at best - but it looks like the wagons just spontaneously combusted as they passed over the stream. Can anyone confirm that it was the magma that caused this, or were the children just playing with matches again? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:07, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven Caravan Wood Logs ==
I noticed there was a "verify" next to "carries more wood the less trees you cut down" under the Elven Caravans and am not sure if it is right or not. Can anyone confirm this? I have observed the stock of wood brought by the elves in two games as increasing significantly with time. In one of the games wood was scarce, in the other wood was plentiful but to dangerous to cut down and in both I would consistently buy out all of the wood logs from every caravan. So I had theorized the increase in the number of logs brought was related to demand conveyed by buying out the stock repeatedly for years. However, not cutting down trees and buying out all the wood logs would tend to go hand in hand. Also, to really see a significant increase in a specific item I would need to buy out all the wood stock from a caravan for close several years. It is possible that both the demand and level of "production" of wood determine how much is brought. If either is true for wood, then it might be true for other items that Elves bring. Also, did I format this thing right? --[[User:Pencilinhand|PencilinHand]] 8:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)
:In my experience it's something more like - the more you have in stock, the less they bring. I was buying out all logs from them, and they brought ~120 logsevery year, and I chopped a lot of trees, but used them fast. Then I built some wooden machinery (axles, windmills), my stocks always showed about 100 logs in them after that, and elves began to bring only about 5 logs...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::I did a series of experiments over a period of 3 years in my current fort and can confirm that Dorten is right and my previously stated theories are wrong. A forts stockpile of wood appears to be the biggest factor in determining how much wood is brought by the elven caravans. When I had a stockpile of 51 wood logs the elves brought no wood, when I had a stockpile of 0 wood logs they brought 43 wood logs, similar results were observed regardless of if I was cutting down trees during the year(though I did not test any clear cuts). The other caravans may have brought more wood as well, but further testing is needed before I am confident in that statement, as it may have been caused by offerings/gifts. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)

==Trade Depot Color==
I know this doesn't have anything to do with trading, but it is interesting. Since Trade Depots are made out of 3 stones (or logs etc etc), if you combine stones of various colors, what do you get? I tried combining Orthoclase (yellow), Kimberlite (blue) and Olivine (green), and I got a green depot. Then I tried Gabbro (black) and 2 Orthoclase, and the depot was yellow. Kimberlite, Petrified Wood (red) and Olivine, the depot was green. Does anyone know how the color is selected?

:As far as I understand is the last stone for the color (or was it the first one?) --[[User:NobbZ|NobbZ]] 10:50, 23 February 2009 (EST)
::I'll have to fire up the game again when I get home, but I could have sworn that I've occasionally wound up with two-tone depots when I've used different stones. The main part was one color while the corners were another. But maybe I'm just imagining things. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::I just built a trade depot out of 3 Orthoclase (yellow) and it turned out where about half of it was yellow and half was white. Not like a two tone either, just blotches of yellow and blotches of white... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::::Sounds like that might be a screen (or eye) problem. [[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 16:43, 19 August 2009
:::::No... It's nothing like that. It's where different "block" of the Trade Depot appeared different colors. So, like some parts would have yellow blocks in it, where other parts would have white blocks. So... like...

WWWYW 
WWYYY 
WWWYY 
WWWWY 

But not exactly that, I can't remember the exact design of it. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== stealing animals ==

One of the objects I happened to cheat the game of was a nickel cage with a dog in it. on the units page, the dog was still shown to belong to the traders. Is there any way to change this? (or at least any [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun fun] to be had from this?)

: What happens when you [[kennel|train]] it into a war dog? or, for that matter, does the game recognize it as an animal that can be [[kennel|tamed]]? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:15, 25 March 2009 (EST)

==Buggy behavior with sieges==

In my current game the dwarven caravan arrived, followed immediately by a goblin siege. I crushed the siege but a couple caravan guards and a pack animal were killed. A handful of merchants, guards and animals got stuck at the edge of the map, and I never got to trade, even though all the wagons made it safely into the depot. I was however able to make the usual arrangements with the liason. Then I got the message that the caravan was leaving but they didn't actually go. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any way to fix it? --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 23:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

:In case something like this happens to anyone else, I found that digging out the area under the stuck merchants and collapsing it fixed the problem. The survivors started moving off the map and the wagons immediately pulled out of the depot. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Limited Caravan Accessiblity ==

Contrary to the comments in the section on wagons, I do not believe you can force a caravan to enter the map at a specific point. Running 0.28.181.40d, I build a wall so that there is only one entrance to the map that is accessible to the depot. Humans arrived from another point of the map, and I got the message "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site." I do see 'Depot accessible' on D. --[[User:Sfogarty|Sfogarty]] 05:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:As for my experience, game first chooses the side of the map for traders, and then checks if wagons can reach depot. I had to chop trees yearly to keep fortress accessible before I've build a road. However, it can be not side but embarking tile that is chosen before accessibility check, but I haven't done any experiments to validate if it is the case. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== lazy dwarves ==

I just had a Human Caravan.

None of my dwarves did anything. Not a single mug or gem or meal was moved to the depot. I had to disable my broker's labours- ALL of his labours- to get him to speak with the diplomat following him about like a lost puppy.

Now, I see a 'priority' setting function in the Manager. Would this be practical or even usable to set Depot requests high?

== Attacked caravan slowed down - bug? ==

All right, I was in my third or so year. Autumn came and the dwarven caravan showed up - along with a Goblin ambush. Naturally the two fought in front of my fortress (with some strategic ranged support from my marksdwarves). Of the three wagons, one was destroyed (phat lewt!). Thing is, once the Goblins were taken out of the pricture one of the wagons moved *very* slowly - slow enough, in fact, that it didn't even get into the trading depot before I got the message that the caravan was going to leave soon. The wagon froze at the edge of the depot, two steps shy of getting into position, and then they both just sat there - I never even got the option to trade with them :-/ Has anyone else encountered a similar issue or did my game just have a bout of cranial flatulence?

: I have seen my caravan ambushed by goblins (killing the ambush) and then retreat... No trade this season. I guess this kind of behaviour should go in the main page [[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 17:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

== requested items ==

Any time I request specific items... the next caravan turns up with exactly 1 of each item and nothing else.

So I get caravans turning up with a total of say 6 items.

Any suggestions?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]]
:Not sure. Maybe it depends on the actual availability of said items? In one game where I played in a pretty barren area and I asked my dwarven traders to bring lots of wood and they brought like 60 something of it the next season. When asking for meat, they bring plenty of it as well. What are you trying to request though? I requested some flux stone once and only got 6 flux stone rocks.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
::example: various types of leather - I got 1 of some of the types.
::I think maybe I didn't send out enough value last time and I may have just made the same mistake. I'm trying too hard to get "value".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I also suspect it has to do with the avialability at the mountainhome - i get huge loads of requested wood, meat and specific types of leather, but bit coal, lignite, pig iron, steel bars and charcoal always only come in small amounts like, 6, though still more than when i do not request them (zero :( ) --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
::::It is of course also limited by the total capacity of the caravan. In the first two years its easy to "push out" all the crap they normally bring with requests. Later they will bring everything, and more of, what you request, but still not necessarily "much".. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

== Merchant turned friendly ==
Bug or feature? A macedwarf that came with the caravan lagged a bit behind when leaving and stopped 2 tiles from the border. When i checked with 'u' he had turned friendly. Now he's standing there guarding.. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:This happens whenever the merchants have all left and soldiers are left over. He will leave eventually. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidden Items? ==

I've never had green glass items refused by Elves, on my current or any other map. My main export to everyone is green glass goblets on any map that supports cheap glass. I don't need wood for them but then, I didn't think the trading system(or the elves, for that matter) was sophisticated enough to tell. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

== Error ==
I just had my first time ever true crash of DF - right on arrival of human caravan i got a message smth like "fatal error: nemesis failed to load unit". What does this mean and how do i find out if this is a known bug and where do i report it if not? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:Okay, google was my friend. For some odd reason all the files accompanying world.sav were gone, that causes this error. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 16:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
::C - you're on the forums - you haven't ever heard of this? See [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34936.0| Nemesis Errour]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

== Self-Deconstructing Wagon? ==

I had a human caravan enter my map, and right where they entered was a group of bonobos. I was accustomed to the caravans plowing right through animals with no consequences, but this time, the wagon exploded as it touched the bonobo. The wagon was nowhere to be seen afterward, just all the trade goods it was carrying (in addition to one kapok log, which I suspect the wagon was built from). The rest of the caravan promptly ran away. The only thing I had built there was a rock block road. Has anyone else had anything like this happen, and if so, under what circumstances? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 00:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:That happens when a wagon is killed, all of the goods fly out, the Bonobo probably attacked it, and the rest of the traders always run away if a caravan is destroyed.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:I had this happen to me too. A caravan arrive just as a bunch of Orcs did. I wasn't watching, but they must have toasted one wagon and the caravan fled off the map. It was frustrating for two reasons. First, being on the very edge of the map, the clean up was terrible, and second, all the items dropped were marked as stolen.[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 15:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:So should it be noted on the page that normally-passive animals can attack the caravan, sending everyone back home? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 21:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)