Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Albedo

2009-08-01T01:24:07Z

Riffraffselbow: /* RE: Garnierite */ new section

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
::And it all seems so polite. It's nice when people can disagree with courtesy and style. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== re: End of statement ==

See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]

== Masonry ==

I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== version tags ==

You can use <nowiki>{{subst:current}}</nowiki> to create a version tag on a page for the current version. When you use template:version in other cases, please try to use an actual version number (eg: 0.28.181.40d) since otherwise it will get stuck into [[:category:unknown version]] rather than the appropriate [[:category:version|version]] category. This will matter when game updates make us pick over the old stuff. Also, the game mechanics of 40d# versions are identical to 40d since the only changes are Baughn's OpenGL fixes. For this reason, it's safe to bundle those under 40d's umbrella. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Garnierite ==

I'm an absolute twit; It *was* in gabbro, i forgot that gabbro looks exactly like obsidian. *doh*. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 01:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Birthright

2009-08-01T01:23:23Z

Riffraffselbow:

Welcome!

===Refuse/Stockpile merge===
Merging is fine, but you shouldn't leave out parts that are relevant. (In this case, you left out the note that using diagonals is an exploit.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

: Because i don't consider it one. And relevance?? Lots of disc. about what is an exploit in DF. Not much diff. if you put a doubledoor instead. Besides, we have the exploit page for that. But if it hurts you, add it. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::If necessary, we can make an article on speculation of what changes will be made to DF mechanics in the future. Even if we do, though, that article isn't [[refuse stockpile]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Then [[Special:Search?search=exploit&fulltext=Search|all the other references to exploits]] need to be removed as well, which is rather foolish, as it simply serves to screw up newbies when something they didn't think would change, suddenly does, because they'll no longer know that certain things that are possible in-game, aren't the way they're intended to be. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::::[[talk:refuse stockpile]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:28, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

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== Past info ==

If there is something you are sure is no longer true about the current version, even if it was true in the past, feel free to delete it entirely. We want to maintain a timeless and current feel for the wiki, so bugs and quirks that are over with aren't something anyone needs to know (unless they are really funny) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

:I do so, but i am not sure of all details - i only tested rock floor so far, who knows, might work on soil still --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

::When you want to tag something with a version number, please use [[template:version]]. This will automatically include it in a category so that when a new version comes out we have available links to all potentially outdated information. When tagging something with the current version, you can use the <nowiki>{{subst:current}}</nowiki> shortcut rather than typing out the version number. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

== [[Food guide]] ==

See [[User talk:GarrieIrons#Food guide|my talk page]].[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 13:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm an absolute twit; It *was* in gabbro, i forgot that gabbro looks exactly like obsidian. *doh*. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 01:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

40d:Gabbro

2009-07-31T04:36:38Z

Riffraffselbow: I'll show you the screenshot of my 40d13 game with Garnierite and Kimberlite in Obsidian if you want.

{{Stone_layer|name=Gabbro|tile=▒|color=#888|basic_color=#888|color2=#CCC
|uses=
|properties=
* [[Igneous intrusive layer]]
* [[Material value]] 1
|contains=
* [[Garnierite]]
* [[Native gold]]
* [[Tetrahedrite]]
* [[Olivine]]
:* [[Native platinum]]
:* Serpentine
:* Chromite
* [[Kimberlite]]
* Ilmenite
* Pyrolusite
* Hornblende
* Orthoclase
* Microcline
}}

Gabbro is one of the types of [[stone]] that forms entire [[stone#Stones forming entire layers |layer]]s.

Gabbro contains [[kimberlite]], which is the only stone that contains [[gems|diamonds]]. Gabbro also contains [[Garnierite]], the ore of [[Nickel]], necessary for some magma-proof metals.

{{Rocks}}
[[Category:Stone]]
[[Category:Igneous Intrusive Stone Layers]]

40d Talk:Currency

2009-07-23T08:10:14Z

Riffraffselbow: /* Monies? */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/ bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)
:For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that it is a correct spelling which has fallen out of usage. Also note that the term "monies" is correctly used as a meta-reference to multiple units of money, e.g. "The Member nations of the EU have many varied monies", not as in "How much monies do you have in your bank account". [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 08:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

::Honestly, the whole economy is so off-kilter right now I'm considering simply turning it off until it sees a major overhaul. I think I'll mess with it again when it's further along in development, as it seems a kind of placeholder right now. I'm sure Toady One can find some real, live economists on these boards to consult with in order to make the whole thing work. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:::One option might be to count coins as a REALLY small item, so small that it doesn't actually appear in-game. Smelted coins are instead simply added to the currency screen, and the dwarves continue about their lives as though on credit. The credit system would be removed, and dwarves WOULD carry coins, but all transactions would be done "backstage." No running off to grab coins, no stashing them in chests, just a running tab of how much everyone is worth. Basically I am suggesting that coins operate like the credit system does now. That would give coins meaning, without making them obnoxiously inconvenient. Bank officers could be appointed to record transactions (or the treasurer could handle it), so that all dwarves' accounts are balanced correctly, without them actually ever touching their money. (BTW, I am not yet used to the whole wikipedia setup, so please bear with me.) --[[User:zipdog|zipdog]]

40d Talk:Currency

2009-07-23T08:08:37Z

Riffraffselbow: /* Monies? */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/ bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)
:For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that it is a correct spelling which has fallen out of usage. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 08:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

::Honestly, the whole economy is so off-kilter right now I'm considering simply turning it off until it sees a major overhaul. I think I'll mess with it again when it's further along in development, as it seems a kind of placeholder right now. I'm sure Toady One can find some real, live economists on these boards to consult with in order to make the whole thing work. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:::One option might be to count coins as a REALLY small item, so small that it doesn't actually appear in-game. Smelted coins are instead simply added to the currency screen, and the dwarves continue about their lives as though on credit. The credit system would be removed, and dwarves WOULD carry coins, but all transactions would be done "backstage." No running off to grab coins, no stashing them in chests, just a running tab of how much everyone is worth. Basically I am suggesting that coins operate like the credit system does now. That would give coins meaning, without making them obnoxiously inconvenient. Bank officers could be appointed to record transactions (or the treasurer could handle it), so that all dwarves' accounts are balanced correctly, without them actually ever touching their money. (BTW, I am not yet used to the whole wikipedia setup, so please bear with me.) --[[User:zipdog|zipdog]]

40d:Dungeon master

2009-07-23T06:30:04Z

Riffraffselbow: Just played a game with a magma pipe; had >50 dwarves for 2 immigration waves until I "found" the pipe, at which point he shows up.

{{Noble
| noble=Dungeon Master
| quarters=Quarters
| dining=Dining Room
| office=Office
| tomb=Burial Chamber
| stands=1
| racks=1
| chests=1
| cabinets=1
| arrival=
* 50 population
* Discover site feature
| function=
* Tame exotic animals
}}
:''"The dungeon master ponders fell beasts and treasure."''

The '''dungeon master''' is a [[noble]] and, like the [[expedition leader]], is not a position that can be replaced by the player. S/he arrives as an [[immigrant]] and is not elected. The dungeon master arrives in a fortress' first immigrant wave after reaching a population of 50 if certain site features are present like [[magma]], a [[river]] or a [[brook]] (as [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=13243.msg122185#msg122185 confirmed] by Toady One). This only occurs after the features have been discovered. The dungeon master may also arrive alone, without immigrants.

The dungeon master has a somewhat... odd taste in clothing. He or she often shows up wearing a cloak, hood, and mittens, with nothing underneath. The dungeon master will often procure more cloaks to wear over the first at your fortress.

The presence of this noble allows taming of exotic [[animals]] (by the dungeon master as well as other animal trainers). Exotic animals are animals with the [PET_EXOTIC] tag.

The dungeon master arrives with skills from both the [[metalsmith]] and [[ranger]] groups at (''no adjective'') skill level. These skills are:
*[[Animal trainer]]
*[[Animal caretaker]]
*[[Furnace operator]]
*[[Metal crafter]]

Additionally, Dungeon masters have the [[armorsmith]], [[weaponsmith]]ing and [[metalsmithing]] labor turned on even though they possess no base skill. At the moment{{version|0.28.181.40d}} since there is no way of adjusting a noble's jobs this means s/he can and will take over any of these crafts from a more skilled [[dwarf]] unless Workshop Profiles are used on the forge to prevent such.

All dungeon masters like [[copper]], [[silver]], [[electrum]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and cloaks among other things.

A dungeon master will not make [[mandate]]s.

[[Category:Nobles]]