Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d:Oriole

2009-11-12T23:18:26Z

Quil: fixed/adjusted formatting

An '''oriole''' is a [[vermin]]-type bird found in [[temperate]] [[broadleaf]] [[forests]]. It is tameable, and can be set as "available" for ownership. It can be caught with [[animal trap]] by someone with the [[trapping]] skill enabled. Like all vermin, it does not show up on the {{K|u}}nits page.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:BIRD_ORIOLE]
[NAME:oriole:orioles:oriole]
[TILE:249][COLOR:6:0:1]
[VERMIN_GROUNDER][FREQUENCY:100]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:250:500]
[FLIER]
[SMALL_REMAINS]
[SPEED:400]
[PETVALUE:30][NATURAL][PET]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[PREFSTRING:coloration]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:FOREST_TEMPERATE_BROADLEAF]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10071]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[MUNDANE]
}}

[[Category:Vermin]]

40d Talk:Cat

2009-11-12T23:13:16Z

Quil: /* paused adoption */

== Bones, etc. count ==

Wile butchering cats I always got stacks of 3 bones... Anyone, check this, please. --[[User:Dorten]]

:Cats are size 3 in the raws so 3 stacks of bones would make sense to me. Maybe they are taking the numbers from kittens, likewise you probably get 3 meat. Can someone confirm this, I don't trust my reading of the raws. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:00, 25 January 2008 (EST)

::Bone#=Size --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:58, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

== Disable Cats? ==

I'm getting annoyed with all these cats, is there a way to delete them? Maybe removing their creature details? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Yep, that's the way. Just look for the file raw/objects/creature_domestic.txt and delete the 'cat' creature. Although personally I wouldn't recommend that, since if you just delete the [VERMINHUNTER] the cats act like normal animals, they don't go around slaughtering rats and roaches and they dont 'adopt' owners.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 12:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there anyway to remove cats adoption behaviour whilst leaving their rat catching intact?----
:None known. The two are tied together in the deeper game code. (If you give, say, dogs the [vermin catcher] tag, they begin to adopt owners same as cats.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Too injured? ==

Right after the last siege, I've had a sudden surge of odd announcements along the lines of "Tame Cat Algazud Knogger cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too Injured". Several cats exhibit this behavior, none of them actually wounded in any way I can tell. Anyone else seen this? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:51, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
:I'm guessing that the vermin the cat just killed and wants to move to the stockpile is what's tripping the injured message. I'm seeing it I think every time a cat kills a vermin. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::Ah, well it's still happening. I took a look through the bug list and someone has listed it under "Announcement spamming". No response yet from The Toady One as best I could tell. It's annoying, but I already have to deal with a lot of spurious cancellation messages, so it's liveable. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:00, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:::See [[Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured]]. The cat needs something to grasp with, apparently; either you make a type of grasping mouth and call it CAT_MOUTH, and assign it to CAT, or just change the CAT raws from [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH] to [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:UPPERBODY_PINCERS]. See what he did there? Version .40d. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 03:24, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Indeed... whoever wrote that FAQ entry must have been a very wise and knowledgable person. Truly a paragon among men. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:00, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::It is only right that we should link there from here and let his teachings be known more widely. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:49, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Added to the page. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:34, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

== Closed door method of impounding cats ==

Recently, a method was posted to isolate cats by means of tightly-closed doors, luring the owner there by drafting, and then letting him leave while the cat is stymied. I haven't had means to test this exact method, but I do know that cats and other pets will eventually get out of the tightly closed doors if there's ever another Dwarf that will walk through. My experience is that cats especially will just sit by the door with a question mark, waiting for someone to open it so they can slip out (just like real cats!). Similarly, I've seen accounts of people on the board who've noticed peculiarly sneaky muskoxen using the same tactic to get into fortresses. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:In addition, wouldn't this method just cause the pathfinding algorithm to continually execute for the cat, slowing down the FPS anyway? Also this could be moved to the 'catsplosion' page, rather than being here... --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 20:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::All animals will pile up at tightly closed doors because they path like dwarves, so they don't understand the door won't open for them. This should kill your FPS because they are queuing the pathfinding algorithm repeatedly. Now, if you really want to control the cat problem with tightly closed doors, build a Upright Spike trap right next to the door with a lever on the other side. When the cats pile up, have someone go pull the lever. (Works best with 2 doors airlock fashion so you can forbid the other door when you notice a cat pileup to stop dwarves from pathing through the room and letting the cats out before their death). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:::Make the floor of the cat impound a retracting bridge. When pulled, cats fall 1 z-level into a completely sealed walled-in room. Now there is no door to escape, and cats cease pathfinding in favor of standing there pitiably until the end of time. Deconstruct a wall to let them out. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)

::::I've also noticed that cat's aren't very smart. I once saw 3 trying to get into a human house because there was a lizard inside. They wouldn't go find another victim, they seemed focused on that one lizard. this could potentially have some use for cat death traps.--[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

== Virgin birth? ==

My current fortress is an obsidian wasteland, complete with haunted area that is spawning undead animals regularly. I only brought 1 cat with me. I haven't kept an eagle's eye on the creatures in the area, but my single female cat just gave birth to kittens. No immigrants have arrived, but I've had the first two caravans come through. They don't bring (uncaged) cats with them, do they?

:Well, the gestation period for cats in RL is about two months and I'm not sure just what the gestation period is in DF. It's entirely possible that traders will have a stray cat tagging along, so if its the opposite gender... you know. I did think that she was pregnant from the start (as in mated before the game 'started'), but given that a year and a half went by...--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 18:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::I've seen other evidence to suggest that caged males can impregnate uncaged females. Certainly, we have seen evidence that animals which have never come in contact with each other can mate. My most recent fortress included a large array of paired animals (cats, dogs, horses, donkeys, muskox). All of them gave birth within a very narrow time frame right as Autumn began. This suggests that all animals have the same 2-season gestation period. -- 05:07, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

== Chains ==

Can't you just chain them instead?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:I think you can't chained named pets. Just strays? - Cayzle
::You "think"? For trivial questions, trivial experiments are called for - and let's be honest, this is hardly a complex or hard-to-answer question. Just find out instead of wondering or guessing. If you have an empty [[restraint]] (chain or rope), [[pet]]s do not appear on the list of possible animals to assign to it, only "stray" animals - ''with or without names!''. (An animal that is "named" is not the same as "being a pet".) Note also that if a ''stray'' cat is chained, and then later adopts someone after that, the "owner" (the dwarf, not the cat) will get bad thoughts until the animal is released. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== paused adoption ==

i'm one of the types to spend about 2 hours just designing keeping the game paused and draw digging plots when 4 games out of 5 i get a "(so in so) cat has adopted (named dwarf)". always happens if a dwarf has a liking to cats and never otherwise. not a bug report or anything just a finding as nothing is "wrong". [[User:Soul4hdwn|Soul4hdwn]] 00:03, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, had this happen too. It appears a few of the timers (liaison conversations, adoption, etc.) work off of a real time counter, and not seasons. Incredibly aggravating in this case.--Gotthard 04:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:: The question is, did the dwarf like cats before the cat adopted him? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 05:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
::There seems to be a strange issue with using the mouse to designate areas which causes some events to act as though a game tick has occured with each click, which results in meetings progressing, record-keepers performing record-keeping, and cats adopting owners even when the game is paused. Using the keyboard doesn't seem to cause this to happen.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 23:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

40d:Dragon

2009-02-26T19:53:41Z

Quil: Undo revision 40636 by DONT CARE BUTTON (Talk)

{{CreatureInfo|name=Dragon|symbol=D|color=rgb(0, 128, 0)|
bones=20|chunks=20|meat=20|fat=10|modvalue=50|skulls=1|skin=Yes|
biome=
* Any land
}}

'''Dragons''' are ferocious predatory [[:Category:Megabeasts|Megabeasts]] which are extremely hostile, larger than elephants, and quite resistant to damage. In addition to bite and claw attacks, they can breathe [[fire]] over a considerable area, which can cause things such as grass, equipment and people to ignite. This fire is apparently magical in nature, and can hurt many creatures who are otherwise comfortable in the fire.

When a dragon enters your area, the game will announce its presence and its name. It will then attempt to eat you. Quickly.

==Dealing with Dragons==

It takes from 3 to 10 stone-fall traps to kill a dragon. This is probably the safest way to manage this creature

Despite all its advantages, it is possible for relatively small groups of [[dwarves]] (even as few as 8) to take down dragons, especially if there are high proportions of relatively well trained [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] available.

Additionally, dragons can be caught in cage traps and then tamed or sold to traders. ('''Beware''': When transferring a Dragon cage to a trade depot the dragon, like all [[captured creatures]], may escape, wreaking havoc on all your dwarves who are bringing other trade items.)

While the dragon itself is usually fairly easy to deal with, if you are not quick in doing so, it will likely set a large number of objects (and dwarves) on fire. Given that dwarven AI doesn't understand being on fire very well, this can quickly lead to dwarves inadvertantly spreading the fire throughout your fortress. Be sure to quickly forbid burning objects that dwarves might want to pick up, and also draft burning dwarves so you can order them to take a bath before spreading the burning horror around.

Timing can make the difference between black and white. One strategy is to pile a large squad of melee dwarves and marksdwarves on the dragon while its crossing a bridge / floor-path over a river. If you're lucky, the barrage of bolts will send the dragon falling off of the bridge stunned and you can have your way with it. This is possible to pull-off without a single casualty (war dogs being an exception).

==Dragon Irregularities, Bugs, and Planned Features==

Note that, as of the current version, Dragons cannot actually fly, which contributes towards the ease of killing them. Certain dev_notes indicate that in eventual future releases, dragons will not only be able to fly, but will use their flight to a terrifying level of efficiency, strafing your troops with fire from above, as well as picking them up and dropping them from a great height. Unfortunately (fortunately?) these enhancements may not show up in the game for many months.

Dragons are apparently immune to dragonfire, but not immune to any other kind of fire. Unfortunately, the dragon AI (like the dwarf AI) seems to believe that it is in fact immune to all fire, and so they will gleefully go swimming in lava-- and hence get burned to a crisp. Their dragonfire can also ignite many objects on the ground, and if the dragon then walks over these objects, they will sometimes ignite themselves in the process. These factors are all likely bugs, and are liable to be fixed at some time in the future.

==Taming dragons with a dungeon master==
Dragons can be tamed only with the help of the [[Dungeon master|dungeon Master]] [[noble]]. Any dragon that has already tasted dwarven blood and received a title for doing so will never be ''truly'' tamed. Dwarves will ''believe'' the dragon to be tame, and will not run away in fear from it, but the dragon will continue to happily devour them. This bug/feature exists for all creatures that have killed your dwarves, not just dragons.

Even in the case of taming a dragon that has not killed any of your dwarves, beware that dragonfire does not discriminate between friend or foe.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:DRAGON]
[NAME:dragon:dragons:draconic]
[TILE:'D'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[MODVALUE:50]
[DRAGONFIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]
[FANCIFUL]
[MEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FREQUENCY:5]
[PETVALUE:10000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:50]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[PREFSTRING:terrible majesty]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:CLAW_FOOT]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:10]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME_ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Megabeasts]]

40d Talk:Dragon

2009-02-26T19:52:59Z

Quil: /* They go through magma */

== They go through magma ==

a dragon walked through 3 tiles of magma channel and destroyed my fortress

:Considering that vanilla dragons are specifically not immune to magma, I find this hard to believe. As such, I'm removing the comment on the page proper until someone can confirm this. kind of thing. Also, sign your comments.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:52, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Tameable? ==

Are Dragons tameable in this version? Supposedly they were in the previous version, but I am not sure. [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)

If you see a Hyrda in a fortress, will a Dragon ever appear, or will you forever see Hyrdas going forward? [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)

: Yes, they can be tamed once you get the [[dungeon master]], just like before. --[[User:JT|JT]] 18:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:: What about multiple types of megabeasts showing up? Or is it "once a hyrda, always a hydra?"
::: I had both a hydra and bronze colossus show up in the same fort [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]
::: I had a Dragon, and then 3 months later a hydra show up as well. PS: I edited your comment. --[[User:Gotthard|Gotthard]] 11:08, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::::So far I'm 15 years into my fortress and I've had 3 Bronze Collusi, 2 Hydras, 1 Titan and 1 Dragon. I've tossed them all into a pit which I drop sieging armies into for my amusment... [[User:XRsyst|XRsyst]] 22:55, May 15 2008 (PDT)

== Disappointment ==

I was pretty disappointed with my first Dragon. It came during a goblin siege, and proceeded to make a bee line for them. The first goblin bolt grounded it as unconscious, and the second killed it. Highly anticlimactic, it didn't even singe anything. Would be nice if they were somewhat threatening. --Gotthard 13:50, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:This is not a problem with dragons, it's a recuring problem from ranged weapons. Did you ever try to send champions against a horde of bowmen? They'd die just as easily as recruits... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:30, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::I would say it is somewhat a problem with megabeasts in general, though. Someone actually mentioned this to me in another context the other day, but megabeasts really need to have some special mechanics for them if they're going to be very mega.--[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:01, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::If I read the raws correctly, it just looks like his only attack is a bite (with a good damage of 1-6). Shouldn't he have a tail swipe, or a wing buffet to complement his fire breathing ability? Perhaps an increased resistance to ranged attacks, although armor doesn't seem to do much to piercing damage. Very irritating. --Gotthard 17:21, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:I just saw something similar -- my hunter was out hunting, and came upon a dragon that had just invaded. He seems to have dodged the fire the dragon breathed at him, then knocked it unconscious with a bolt to the heart. The hunter must have agreed that this was anticlimactic, as he then shrugged and went to kill a mountain goat. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 14:35, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
A dragon raided my village, burning everything above ground. The flames consumed everything. Including the dragon itself. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 16:31, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
:err... it burned itself to death? Are you sure? Because if you look at the object data for dragons in this article, it has the [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] tag... --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:17, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
::[FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] grants immunity to dragonbreath and the belief that the creature is immune to fire. It does not actually grant an immunity to fire. [FIREIMMUNE] does that. The dragon breathed, ignited grass, and burned upon the fire it started. Sometimes they purposefully hop into lava and become dragon fritters. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 23:43, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Yup, my dragon just destroyed itself in it's own firey fury too, unless my recruit kicked it in it's softspot... And the wooden building nearby just become 'warm'. So there we have it.--[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 18:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Tiny? ==

Dragons can enter dwarf homes? That's a bit odd. A five story tall dragon probably should be a bit taller then the four-or-so foot dwarves. I'd imagine elves have a hard enough time as is. [[User:Minalkra|Minalkra]] 01:20, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
:Uhh.. This is Dwarf Fortress not the North American Scale and Size Convention (NASSC) ...Duh [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Burning items ... ==

IMO the easiest way of dealing with fire breath is: Options -> Only military allowed outside.

Setting this ON as soon as the dragon arrives will result in dwarves not doing much (or more precisely cancelling any task that paths them outside), but should also prevent dwarves from picking up burning items (providing you kill the dragon while it's still outside the fortress.)

== They're [FANCIFUL]...? ==

I just noticed the object data for dragons has the [FANCIFUL] tag. I had been led to believe by [[Fanciful|this article]] that this tag was for creatures that were just mythical and didn't actually spawn in the game. But dragons certainly do spawn in the game. Is that article wrong or what? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:26, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

:I think this makes dragons not spawn normally. Instead, they spawn when it's time for a dragon attack. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

::Ah, I just looked at the other megabeasts, and they have the tag too, along with the demons. So that's probably why. The [FANCIFUL] article is still somewhat wrong or misleading though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I have been led to believe that it is for creatures that everyone knows about, no matter what. Everyone has heard of a dragon, even if only about 50 people have seen one. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:01, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== After being tamed ==

Will the defend themselves if they get attacked? I would love burning the bloody goblins who go after my dwarf families. It seems they won't move much if you let them out of their cages. It would also be fun to have a match with 2 mega beasts against each other.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:37, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Spawning Injured? ==

I was just assaulted by a Dragon. With no legs. (Well... it was missing 2 legs... completely cut off)

It constantly was unconscious (although it did wake up every 5 minutes or so and take a couple steps forward)
I haven't checked up on the legends for that dragon yet, but I can assume it lost those body parts in a battle sometime back. Very... intriguing. Should a note be made about mega-beasts spawning as such?

:This does sound rather interesting. When did Toady Introduce the fact that Megabeasts exist in the world and can be encountered on numerous occasions, given that you haven't killed them yet? And, Can you find mega-beasts in Adventure mode? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:17, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:As I recall, Megabeasts have their own lives and histories, generated when the map is generated. There is a rotating quote on the front page from Toady about a Titan that had its leg gnawed off by a dwarf and then laid waste to the land for 1000 years or so. So, no, your Dragon didn't start injured. Someone else injured it for you. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 17:09, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hell, even the semi-megabeasts that mayors want you to fight spawn injured. In my most recent adventure, besides successfully killing almost an entire town (I had recruited like 30 marksdwarves. Heh.) I had at least 5 occassions where a semi would constantly fall unconcious from the fact it had missling legs, lungs, arms, etc. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:16, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:::I've even seen this happen with civ leaders, I recently had a goblin elite marksman with his whole left leg gone siege me, he of course never advanced because he was always unconscious, but somehow he escaped two times. On the third time I finally got the sucker because he came in right beside my castle. -[[User:Jebraltix|Jebraltix]] 16:46, 18 January 2009 (CST)

== Dragon Footprints ==

From SomethingAwful forums thread #2917631<blockquote>

'''Krinkle posted:'''

holy poo poo! Just as I was getting ready to go home I get a message.

''Berayi Nelarthesa, Dragon, has arrived.''

I saved and took the save with me. Holy crap. I sounded the alarm that nobody but nobody was allowed outside and let loose and he leaves sand where he walks HE LEAVES SAND WHERE HE WALKS.
</blockquote>
Reposted for flavour by --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 07:02, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

:It seems to me that dwarves walking on a layer of sand covered by grass leave sand where they walk, too. This way the stange phenomenon posted above might be explained. --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
::Elves have grasstrample 0. Dwarves have default grasstrample. Giant desert scorpions have grasstrample 10. Alligators have grasstrample 20. Dragons have grasstrample 50. A mess of dwarves milling about your entrance will wear away all the grass eventually. A dragon does it with every step. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 23:43, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

== Trapped! ==

I have built a few hundred cage traps around my fortress. The second a Dragon appeared, I ordered (o) my dwarves to stay indoors and just waited. AWESOME! Caught him in a dumb cage trap. Shucks the kobalts don't get caught in them... (so I put a few stone traps around the exits/entrances).

== Bugged Dragon? ==

I had 3 stonefall traps lining the entrance to my fortress (this was very early in the game). A dragon showed up when I was still getting settled (not even a season into the game) and cheerfully walked right past my traps without setting them off, then torched all of my dwarves. Why didn't it set off the traps? Was it flying over them?--[[User:Aegeus|Aegeus]] 20:17, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

It probably set off the stonefall traps. (you can check, there should be stone on the ground). Dragons just don't get hurt much by them (I had a skeletal dragon run through a line of 8 and come out with some badly bruised bones and a broken (for skeletal, that means totally lost) left claw. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:02, 9 November 2008 (EST)
:Depends on random factors, I suppose. When a dragon went after the chained horse surrounded by stonefall traps I keep outside, it was already nauseous by the time my military arrived to finish the job. It can't have gone through more than three traps, more likely two. I don't think I'll d trapfields again, they're just too appallingly effective. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 09:50, 14 January 2009 (EST)

::Given how early this dragon showed up, did you check to see if you had a cave on the map? The dragon probably lives there and came out to investigate who was disturbing his land. There at least used to be a bug that native creatures (start on the map) know where all the traps are - not sure if its still true. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:22, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Dragonfire too weak? ==

Ok, I got a skeletal dragon invading my fortress. He sends dragonfire out at a regular dwarf, and it hits him at the very edge for no damage (the land is scorched, no fire). Dwarf flees, jumps in the river, dies to carp (which rather hilariously start attacking the skeletal dragon, who proceeds to claw one to death until another dwarf walks by. No big deal, the fire barely hit the peasant so it makes sense it didn't hurt him.

I send in a military squad to fight the dragon. My champion (the one *without* my legendary shield, his was -quality- iron) runs to the dragon, gets hit POINT BLANK by dragonfire (which once again kills the plants without setting them on fire) and doesn't even get hurt. Repeat when two swordsdwarves, one who is only a low level shield user, get hit at about a third of the total range. I killed the dragon, but honestly, he didn't light a thing on fire and couldn't hurt the dwarves. It would AT LEAST make sense if the dwarves got light injuries from the fact they are standing on freshly scorched land while it's in the process of being scorched again.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:08, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Still Relevant? ==
Those parts about training not working on murderous dragons, and especially about fire being inexplicably deadly, sound vaguely 2D. Can anyone confirm the training issue still exists? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 09:50, 14 January 2009 (EST)
:The training quirk is a problem with all tamed animals, not just dragons. [[Fire]] is still outrageously deadly because the dwarven AI doesn't correctly understand being on fire, or why they should not touch things that are on fire. So yes, this is all still relevant. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)
The section could still do with a rewrite, though, considering that all dragons are named and not just those that have killed dwarves --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 10:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Dragonfire and fortifications ==
Question: Will a breath dragonfire go through fortifications? Will it be blocked, or will the dragon be able to 'shoot' through it like marksmen? --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 05:03, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Dungeon Master ==
I noticed when I tamed a captured dragon that the actual task of taming was performed by a normal animal trainer and not by my Dungeon Master. My Dungeon Master was alive and well at the time but is it possible that megabeast taming doesn't require one after all? --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 10:46, 12 February 2009 (EST)
:The DM must be at least on the map. That is the only requirement.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:05, 25 February 2009 (EST)

40d:Trading

2009-02-16T17:41:16Z

Quil: /* Trading cue colors */

{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D
|job=
1 of:
* [[Broker]] noble
* None (See description)
|construction=
3 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Metal bar]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Architecture]]
* and 1 of:
** [[Metalsmithing]]
** [[Masonry]]
** [[Carpentry]]
|purpose=
Trade goods with other races.
}}
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]).

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.

Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.

=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.

=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.

=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.

=== Trade ===
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your trader are both at the depot. It begins trading.

==Trading==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.

=== Trading cue colors ===

* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.
* Items in green have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.

=== Merchant mood ===
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

=== Seizing items ===

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].

As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid traders' goods. They will leave them in depot.

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an [[ambush]] killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a [[siege]] instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!

===Offering items===

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.

=== Wagons ===
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals.

Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.

To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation.

After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.

As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.

=== Liaisons ===
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liason of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

=== Races ===
The following races send caravans.

==== [[Dwarves]] ====
The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.
* tends to be well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location.
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.

==== [[elf|Elves]] ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].
* does not send wagons.
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].
* carries more wood logs the smaller a fort's wood stockpile.
* tends to be unguarded.
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.
* does not accept some items in trade.

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}:

* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the caravan to refuse to trade any more that season and will leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for suggesting it. Tragic incidence can befall name callers which if repeated can lead to [[siege|interesting times]] and even great [[fun]]!

However, [[stone]] and [[metal]] items, even when [[charcoal]] is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].

Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== [[Human]]s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.
* tends to be moderately guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.

==== [[Goblin]]s ====
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*does not send wagons
*tends to be unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

=== Destruction ===
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.

Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].

40d Talk:Wolf

2009-02-12T22:23:42Z

Quil: Formatting error

What about the growing epidemic of Roof Wolves?
--[[User:Metal chao|Metal chao]] 17:06, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Ack! I just lost a dwarf to a wolf that healed from its injuries in seconds... how does that work? Its injuries included its body parts being "lopped off", but it regained consciousness in seconds, then healed itself, then killed my dwarf. It has the name "Zamothrikker, Wolf", with a detail below that "Venomwhiskered". Any information on this? [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 10:10, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: This sounds familar. I had a beloved hunter being killed by a named Wolf. I think this is a feature... --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 10:37, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::Named creatures are usually unusually tough/powerful, due to the level of experience they have. Limbs being lopped off are permanent injuries, however, and the "lightly wounded" and "lopped off" colours are quite similar, so at a guess I'd say it was merely lightly wounded, which can be healed in real-time seconds. "Venomwhiskered" is a mere translation of the wolf's name from whatever language it's named in.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:19, 11 February 2009 (EST)

:::I suppose it's possible I misread the colour, although I distinctly remember dark gray vs light gray colour... oh well, I'll assume it was just "lightly wounded". More details include that when I did kill that wolf (with an axedwarf), it got an interesting light-blue background (I'm using some added graphics, so that's meaningless), then walked about 5-6 squares where it died. What I find kind of weird is that the wolf would continually become unconcious, then wake up a few seconds later and feel 'pain', where it would continue killing that one poor dwarf until it was knocked unconcious again. Was this just because of the pain, perhaps? Originally I had thought that the dwarf, despite being unconcious, was fighting back. 
:::Also, the wolf did have a yellow injury in the lower body that never healed, supporting the idea that his limbs were never lopped off in the first place. 
:::Thanks, 
:::chess123mate [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 16:20, 12 February 2009 (EST)

::::Light-blue background indicates a creature is flying through the air; your axedwarf hit it so hard that it flew backwards from the impact. Heavily-wounded creatures will, indeed, "give into pain" as it's called in adventure mode, and lose consciousness. You often see injured animals walking a few steps, losing consciousness, waking up, walking a few steps, et cetera.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:23, 12 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Wolf

2009-02-12T22:23:03Z

Quil:

What about the growing epidemic of Roof Wolves?
--[[User:Metal chao|Metal chao]] 17:06, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Ack! I just lost a dwarf to a wolf that healed from its injuries in seconds... how does that work? Its injuries included its body parts being "lopped off", but it regained consciousness in seconds, then healed itself, then killed my dwarf. It has the name "Zamothrikker, Wolf", with a detail below that "Venomwhiskered". Any information on this? [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 10:10, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: This sounds familar. I had a beloved hunter being killed by a named Wolf. I think this is a feature... --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 10:37, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::Named creatures are usually unusually tough/powerful, due to the level of experience they have. Limbs being lopped off are permanent injuries, however, and the "lightly wounded" and "lopped off" colours are quite similar, so at a guess I'd say it was merely lightly wounded, which can be healed in real-time seconds. "Venomwhiskered" is a mere translation of the wolf's name from whatever language it's named in.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:19, 11 February 2009 (EST)

:::I suppose it's possible I misread the colour, although I distinctly remember dark gray vs light gray colour... oh well, I'll assume it was just "lightly wounded". More details include that when I did kill that wolf (with an axedwarf), it got an interesting light-blue background (I'm using some added graphics, so that's meaningless), then walked about 5-6 squares where it died. What I find kind of weird is that the wolf would continually become unconcious, then wake up a few seconds later and feel 'pain', where it would continue killing that one poor dwarf until it was knocked unconcious again. Was this just because of the pain, perhaps? Originally I had thought that the dwarf, despite being unconcious, was fighting back. 
:::Also, the wolf did have a yellow injury in the lower body that never healed, supporting the idea that his limbs were never lopped off in the first place. 
:::Thanks, 
:::chess123mate [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 16:20, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:::Light-blue background indicates a creature is flying through the air; your axedwarf hit it so hard that it flew backwards from the impact. Heavily-wounded creatures will, indeed, "give into pain" as it's called in adventure mode, and lose consciousness. You often see injured animals walking a few steps, losing consciousness, waking up, walking a few steps, et cetera.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:23, 12 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Weapon

2009-02-11T17:28:16Z

Quil: /* Possible bug with long swords in 40d (not wieldable in two hands) */

Are the bows and blowguns melee or ranged? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

:Both. When they run out of ammo the dwarves will beat their enemies to death with their bows. The listed damage is for when that happens. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)

----

What about damage done by artifact weapons? Is it x2 like masterwork items?

:The exact damage bonus granted by artifact weapons is unknown, though it's quite likely much higher than a masterwork, if the value is any indicator. It's difficult to determine the exact bonus, as it's not in the raws, Toady hasn't told us, and it's very difficult to gauge exactly how much damage a weapon is dealing due to how little is known about the combat calculations in general. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 07:31, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Conflicting Info? ==

Earlier on, we say that dwarves can't wield bows because they are too big. Down in the tables, the bow is listed as two handed and not unwieldable. Need to correct one or the other (I'm too lazy to verify that in the current version bows are still unwieldable.) --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 06:20, 28 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, a bow is two handed and unwieldable to dwarves, do you mean in adventure mode with humans/elves? I think most of this data is fortress mode specific. --Gotthard 18:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::I didn't write the article, so I don't know it's original intention, however there are other weapons that can be wielded 2 handed by humans and others in adventure mode, but are listed as unweildable by dwarves. Need to choose to make the table fortress specific, adventure mode specific, or add another col and make it specific to both. As it stands now, it doesn't make sense. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 18:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:::I'm almost certain this is dwarf specific, because I had some goblin axemen siege my base, and one of them was wielding a great axe in one hand, and a shield (not even a *buckler*) in the other hand. I think I saw the same thing with a halberd, but a pike was multigrasped. Looks like goblins have a lot more options than our poor dwarves. --Gotthard 12:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)

== Pike ==

I been able to wield a bronze pike with an adventurer in 23a and it was quite deadly. This need to be verified. Maybe there is a strength requirement? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:43, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== Whips and scourges ==

So, I'm guessing that you can't assign dwarves to use whips and scourges unless you've traded for one, right? And on the article for [[Scourge]] it says it's deadlier than a whip (which currently has no page)... Does that mean scourges are better in every way? What's worse? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:03, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:Did you actually read the tables? It does 10 more damage, and is the same in everything else. Dwarves can't become lashers. There are no lasher option in the military settings... --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 14:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)

== Unorthodox weapons ==

Is there any information on unorthodox weapons such as coins and loincloths? For instance, are the material and crafting value taken into account, and what is the base damage of the item? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)

:"Unortodox" weapons are not really weapons. However, since ''absolutly anything thrown is deadly in the curren fight code'', a lot of people use about anything in adventure mode. This is how coins became popular as a throwing weapon. Part because it's as deadly as anything else and very light which mean you can carry a lot around, part because it is a weapon used in other ascii or rogue like games. You could throw butterfly corpses and mud around and it would be just as deadly as coins. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:52, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Great axe ==

I'm not saying dwarves can wear it, but the dead goblin over there wore one, and even a shield too..if I can get 5 minutes of peace from this annoying little buggers i will try to let one of my dwarves wear it..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:40, 3 March 2008 (EST)

:You're lucky. You get alot of goblins! I want some! Can you send some over?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:16, 10 April 2008 (EDT

== Weapons ==

Clicking the links of some of the types of weapons redirects back to weapons. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 21:07, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:This is a feature called a redirect. If you want to then go ahead and create enough of an article that nobody reverts it back to a redirect. For a lot of weapons there isn't that much of a need for a seperate article, but the redirect will point someone back to a place they can find out what they need to know.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Trap components as weapons ==

"There are a few enormous weapons that no race can wield..." 
I beg to differ. In Adventure mode, at least in "Play Now", you can in fact pick these things up and hit people with them. I dunno if they come with lots of negatives for being a stupid weapon, but I know I've used an enormous wooden corkscrew to fight troglydites before. That, and a barrel of dwarven wine.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 11:19, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:I know that adventurers can do things that shouldn't be possible. Other creatures are technically capable of doing those things, but their code won't ask them to do them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:51, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::I'll say. In adventure mode, you can carry around and throw anvils at enemies. It does no more damage than sand and you'll have the speed of a glacier, but it's hilarious. I suspect, though, that improvised weapons are as effective as unarmed attacks. I'll have to check on that though. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:45, 13 January 2009 (EST)

== Possible bug with long swords in 40d (not wieldable in two hands) ==

Today I traded for two wooden longswords and set two new recruits to use them for sparring.
The recruits continually go pick up the swords ("Pickup Equipment") and then instantly drop the weapon on the ground. It doesn't matter whether they are on duty or not, actually.

Is it possible this is a bug in 40d? Is it possible that oversized weapons that the article lists as being wieldable in two hands actually require a certain amount of strength attribute? Or is it that the article is just completely mistaken on long swords as being wieldable by dwarves using both hands? Any thoughts or input would be nice.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 01:02, 11 February 2009 (EST)

:If I recall, someone somewhere mentioned that setting a dwarf to use two weapons will permit them to hold two-handed weapons. I'm yet to confirm is this works, since I've not got any two-handed weapons available.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:28, 11 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Venom

2009-02-11T17:23:26Z

Quil:

What can venom be used for? ---Wavecutter

:Signing your edits with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or using the "your signature with timestamp" button at the top will automatically insert your name and timestamp, which is what I shall be using at the end of the paragraph.
:As it is, venom has very little use besides selling it, since there's currently no coding for that kind of thing. However, at some point in the future it's planned to make venoms a tad more versatile, so someone's created this page in anticiptation of that.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:23, 11 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Wolf

2009-02-11T17:19:47Z

Quil:

40d Talk:Starting location

2009-02-09T21:48:18Z

Quil: /* What is the RED LINE (and other questions)? */

Trees do not only grow on the lowest Z-Level. I have trees growing on multiple Z-Levels. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 02:46, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hmm. Maybe only up to a certain height? My first map--while initially pretty decent (sand, water, trees, rock, variety of minerals) had trees only in the most lower left hand corner (one screen's worth), which also happened to be the lowest surface level I had. But you are right, my current fort (nice entrance, there was a pocket by a river tributary that I turned into my entrance gateway, but no sand) has trees on two levels, the lowest surface, and the second lowest. Still, it's something to be aware of.
--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Absolutely - that's why I changed it to say "lower" instead of lowest. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 03:35, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

So I noticed. :)
--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Towns ==

Any benefit of building in towns? Other than mining under the elves and dropping them into pits? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:Yes there is. Humans are more than happy to share their stuff with you, and won't be at all upset if you rob them blind it seems. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:11, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
::Think this'll ever get changed? Seems kind of unrealistic to me...--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:56, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Mountain tiles guarantee certain features. ==

As per my addition, for each mountain square in the 2nd zoom view, you're guaranteed pits, a chasm, and an underground river. I have confirmed this myself using the reveal tool, and Today has confirmed at least part of it: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176 - [[User:Kjoery|Kjoery]] 16:49, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Confirmed this too.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:20, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Towns Revert ==

Any reason why that edit was unacceptable to you Savok? I'm not going to revert, but I would like an explanation. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:06, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Errors in PNG? ==

Contrary to the text in the attached PNG, I've had fortresses with pockets of sand sufficient for glassworking even when sand doesn't show up in the embark screen. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:25, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Yes, all maps I've ever had have had at least a few squares of sand. Is it guaranteed? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 22:18, 30 November 2007 (EST)
:I have never seen any pockets of sand. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Another error is that magma and volcanoes now appear on the map [[User:MikeWulf|MikeWulf]] 23:41, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Note that underground magma is hidden. Only lava on the surface is shown on the map --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Layers ==

The paragraph about layers is not explicit enough for newbies. For instance, 'igneous intrusive' never shows up on the embark screen. What I would like to see is something like
* red sand - useful for glass making
* gabbro - in this layer you may find chalk, a flux
* felsite - in this layer you may find copper ore
etc. (Caveat: the data I gave as example is most likely false and/or incomplete).

This way, by comparing the embark screen to this page, the reader would immediately find out what (s)he may find in the site.
--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:51, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:I added a link to [[stone layers]]. There's a lot more in-depth info there. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:32, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Fun starting locations ==

A starting location that looks pretty good from the readouts can turn out to be as boring as hell once you arrive at it. Are there any tips for finding ''interesting'' locations? --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 16:46, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

: Define "interesting"? Anything with a [[chasm]] or in a [[terrifying]] biome could be 'interesting', I'm sure! Personally I often like completely flat land, so I can make the area interesting with my own constructions! That said, I'm considering next building a settlement on the side/s of a steep canyon or river valley! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Magma ==

Regarding finding Magma, this page reads: "look for darker igneous rocks like basalt, obsidian, gabbro" -- is this accurate? Basalt and obsidian are igneous extrusive, while gabbro is igneous intrusive. Only the igneous extrusive page calls out that magma is commonly found there. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 20:41, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

== Mode:Civilisation==
I just noticed, when starting a new fort and choosing which dwarf civ I was from, a symbol I hadn't seen before. Normally dwarve homelands are just blue omegas, this time I saw an omega and also 2 blue {{Tile|î|#ff0|#000}}s. Anyone else seen this/know if this has any significance? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 05:25, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I've had this happen to human civs and one dwarf civ- it means they somehow acquired forest sites during worldgen. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The flipside of humans conquering forest retreats and building towns on them is that you can end up with elves living with them who wear metal armour. I had an 'elven diplomat' show up to discuss human diplomacy, and many 'human' merchants and guards were also elves. That could get scary in the event of a siege! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 09:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Not five minutes ago I had a goblin ambush that was mostly made up of Elves. They all had goblin-esque second names, so presumably they were kidnap-ees, although it seems that you can have large families of elves/humans/whatever who are all descended from kidnapped children and now happily evil.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Elevation changes and inaccessibility ==

I have my doubts about this being true. I'm on a huge mountain map and the wagons have traveled over its peak without a care, since they can go up ramps without a problem. I believe trees and boulders are what causes problems, not elevation.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:25, 10 December 2008 (EST)

:Hmm, ok. I've just cured some accessibility problems on a fairly mountainous map myself, and it seems the problems were right outside my fortress. There's an elevation change only 3-4 squares below (i.e. to the south of) my entrance ramp, and when I used the "upward ramp" designation on the area, my Dwarves dug away at the 3x5 area I'd marked, and -hey presto- the next caravan could suddenly get the big wagons into my trade depot (the smaller ones could get there fine anyway). I admit I was felling trees in the area as well, for timber, but I'd been doing this for the past two game years and it didn't seem to make any difference to accessibility. Ah well, maybe some more testing is required! [[User:Saiph|Saiph]] 21:01, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== "Invaluable" vs. "Unnecessary" ==

Okay, rather than a revert war, could we have opinions on which form of the sentence (if either) is a problem?

I for one certainly did not misunderstand the original form as trying to say that magma was worthless, and I would be likely to interpret the current form as trying to say that magma is unnecessary.

If enough other people do/did see the original form as being misleading (i.e. were misled by it), then I will withdraw my objections, but I do very much think that the original form is both the more correct and the less subject to misinterpretation. It would be possible to rephrase further to avoid the "misinterpretable" part (e.g. change "it" to either "that" or "doing so"), but I think the end result would not be as good as the original form before this change was made. --[[User:The Wanderer|The Wanderer]] 16:03, 17 January 2009 (EST)

:"invaluable" according to [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invaluable Merriam-Webster]: "valuable beyond estimation, priceless <providing invaluable assistance>" I say you're wrong. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:15, 17 January 2009 (EST)

::Yes, I know it means that. That's exactly my point; magma is invaluable, not unnecessary.
::The original form said that magma is invaluable, meaning "valuable beyond estimation" exactly as you say. The current form says that magma is unnecessary. The people who edited it into the current form apparently didn't mean it to say that, but that's what it says; the antecedent for the "it" in that part of the sentence is the magma, not the burning of charcoal.
::I could go into considerably more detail if you want, analyzing possible alternate forms of the sentence and alternate interpretations of those forms, but I hope it wouldn't be necessary... --[[User:The Wanderer|The Wanderer]] 17:01, 17 January 2009 (EST)

:::My interpretation was that the convenience of magma made wood-burning for charcoal unnecessary. Unnecessary is being applied to the main subject of the sentence (charcoal). Talking about wood-burning under magma though is a bit confusing. "Magma is invaluable for fueling your smithies, making it unnecessary to burn wood for charcoal fuel." A bit wordier but a bit clearer? And this way we get to use both "invaluable" AND "unnecessary"! --[[User:Torasin|Torasin]] 17:28, 17 January 2009 (EST)

::::That would work in theory, but it's not necessarily the best way of phrasing it in that context. Still, I don't think I'd object to it; I still don't think there was anything wrong with the original form (my primary evidence for that, aside from grammar, being the fact that I was not even slightly confused by it), but the form you suggest would be better than the IMO misleading current form. --[[User:The Wanderer|The Wanderer]] 18:36, 17 January 2009 (EST)

:::Yeah, the antecedent for "it" is "the burning of charcoal". Fuck you too, English Language. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 19:34, 17 January 2009 (EST)

::::At least in English you can figure it out, as opposed to, say, Latin, where you can order the words any damn way you please and its supposed to mean the same thing. (Fucking Roman poets) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:42, 17 January 2009 (EST)

:::I can see how it could be reasonably read that way, but as I've said (or tried to say) at least once, I find the current form to be considerably more open to the opposite interpretation than the previous one was. Some third form would probably be better than either, at least potentially, but I'd rather not leave it as it stands... --[[User:The Wanderer|The Wanderer]] 20:32, 17 January 2009 (EST)

::::As a more productive contribution, the current version reads just fine. I don't understand how there can be any confusion whatsoever. There is nothing unusual about that sentence structure, and I can't imagine the average 5th grader would have much problem with it, much less adults savvy enough to play a game whose graphics are rendered mostly in text with a byzantine user interface. In short, there is no 'other way' to read the sentence. Grey Mario has it right - there is exactly one way to interpret that. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:00, 17 January 2009 (EST)

:::::The thing is, I would have said exactly the same thing about the original form, and I do see the current form as being at least as easily misinterpreted as the original form.
:::::I suppose I am, at least partly, arguing from a position of "there was nothing wrong with the original so it shouldn't have been changed so we should change it back", which isn't a very defensible position if there's nothing wrong with the current form either. I *do* think that there's more wrong with the current form than was wrong with the original, but I don't have very much to back that up besides the simple fact that I was not tripped up even slightly by the original form whereas I did find the current form to read strangely when it was first changed.
:::::I quite literally had difficulty figuring out what the commit message was talking about; the only conclusion I could arrive at was that the person who made the edit (you, if I'm not mistaken) had misunderstood the sentence.
:::::If the commit message had said e.g. something about a grammatical fix, and had made the exact same edit, I probably wouldn't have said anything. However, since the commit message seemed to be based on the assumption that the original writer had misunderstood the meaning of "invaluable", it seemed obvious to me that the edit had been based on an incorrect premise and therefore was itself incorrect; I therefore reverted it with what seemed to me at the time to be an explanation of (or at least pointer to) the fact that the original form had not involved a misusage of "invaluable" but had simply been using it in a different correct manner. At this point I don't necessarily object so much to the current form (though, as I've said repeatedly, I do think the original was better) as to the notion that the original form was that kind of bad.
:::::--[[User:The Wanderer|The Wanderer]] 15:52, 18 January 2009 (EST)

::::::The original was wrong. It said burning charcoal was invaluable. Needless to say, as most people assume basic grammar, then the original editor of course thought that the original writer had misunderstood invaluable. The grammar wasn't wrong, the word was. Thus the editor correctly reported it as fixing word usage. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:12, 18 January 2009 (EST)

::Since there is so much dissent over which word the "it" binds to in the sentence, surely we can agree that either form is going to mislead some people and do away with both. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:37, 19 January 2009 (EST)

:::Except 'it' isn't actually confusing - the grammar is simple and obvious. The Wanderer seems to have a problem understanding basic grammar despite english apparently being his native tongue (which I gather from a lack of strange phrasing characteristic of other languages in his prose - not that other Western European languages would disagree with english on this point, can't speak for other languages). I don't think it needs to be changed for this reason. Now, having 'burning charcoal' as the subject of a sentence in a paragraph about Magma may be a little strange, so there may be other reasons to want to change the sentence, but acquiescing to people's requests to avoid grammatical sentences because proper grammar confuses to them is a bad idea - that way lies madness. Anyone who is misled by proper grammar should blame no one but himself. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:56, 19 January 2009 (EST)

::::Obvious... to you? Yeah. To me? Sure. To everyone? Not so much. We can't afford to be aloof in word usage when the target audience is so broad. While it is strictly correct and clear to those of us closely familiar with english, others who read this wiki might be taken for a spin. We want to prevent that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:23, 19 January 2009 (EST)

:::: Madness is a prerequisite to play this game, and edit this wiki, so, I guess it's not so bad! Yet, as a french canadian I think the initial wording was not misleading. But to prevent an edit war, we should rules that out in a pit, with sharp metal objet. :) --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 12:16, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Reworded what seemed to be the offending phrase to something somewhat wordier but about a billion times clearer, in my opinion. If you really think this tiny part of the wiki is quite so important, do feel free to replace it and keep arguing about what seems to be a rather minor point.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 23:45, 19 January 2009 (EST)

== What is the RED LINE (and other questions)? ==

I'm using 40d and have been seeing something show up that I can't find an explanation for anywhere.
That is, when viewing the accessable civilizations on the embark screen, often a red dashed line (-----) shows up next to a civilization (so far just Goblins). What does this mean? Furthermore, the ordering of listed civilizations seems to change by location does this imply their proximity to the site currently being viewed?
I hope that these questions are in the right section. It seems that "embark screen" is synonomous with "location" in terms of this wiki.
Thanks.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 18:57, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:The red dashed line indicated that that civ is at war with you, and will generally be nasty to you, unless I'm mistaken. The ordering of listed civs indicated their proximity, although the one at the top will be your civ since YOU are that civ, so you're closest to yourself.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:48, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Inaccessible places ==

On my Pocket world (I use an EEE,) the only cold biomes I've found are deep in the mountains, where I'm not even allowed to embark. Am I forbidden to go there because it's in the mountains, and if so, could I set up fortresses as far into the mountains as possible and pave the way to the colder areas?{{user:yrael/sig|I can't help it, my computer just sux...|DATE=[[User:Yrael|Yrael]] 12:11, 9 February 2009 (EST)}}

40d Talk:Cave adaptation

2009-02-02T01:26:58Z

Quil: /* Greenhouse farming */

Does cave adaptation lessen with increased exposure outside, or is the adaptation permanent? --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:48, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)
:I have found that after a while the dwarves will stop vomiting while outside. I dont know wheter they still have unhappy thoughts. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 15:35, 17 December 2007 (EST)
:I recall Toady mentioning on IRC some time back that cave adapted dwarves are supposed to recover from cave adaptation after a period outside. He didn't seem sure if it was functional though, but I think it might be... [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 04:09, 13 January 2008 (EST)

==Tiles that count as outside for cave adaptation==
I was wondering if tiles that are considered aboveground but inside will cause cave adaptation? I am building a shaft to the sky in my fortress that my dwarves will walk through a lot, with bridges spanning it on various z-levels. I noticed that tiles on the level below a bridge are considered inside/light/aboveground. Tiles that have no bridges anywhere above them count as outside/light/aboveground. Does anyone know if the inside/light/aboveground tiles work to prevent cave adaptation, or if it has to be an "outside" marked tile? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]]

:It's light. All aboveground tiles are always light. Inside/outside is irrelevant. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:41, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:So, in theory, would a greenhouse-esque section of glass tiles above a hallway or some such other high traffic area stop cave adaptation by keeping the dwarves exposed to light on a frequent basis? --[[User:Tehngion|Tehngion]] 03:05, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:: yes, but not because glass lets light through, but because flooring and walling doesn't undo the effect of light rays(giant rays in the sky shoot down, and perma-light any tile they pass through)--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 04:27, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've been watching the cave adaptation in my current fort very closely, and I think that ''being outside'' is what matters, not the light itself. So putting a ceiling over an area to make it Indoors+Light won't do anything but keep your dwarves from barfing all over that one particular spot. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 01:10, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

::How do you "watch for cave adaption?" [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

You can tell someone has cave adaptation by seeing their unhappy thought from being irritated by the sun. At that point it's just a matter of checking frequently and keeping track of who ought to be in the area where the inside/light tiles are often. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:16, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Greenhouse farming ==
I think the statement about brief exposure being insufficient to trigger/treat cave adaptation might be inaccurate. I just built a roofless farming pit for outdoor crops (mmm... whip vines) and I'm noticing that even the brief time it takes to harvest a crop (~10 spaces walked) is enough to make a dwarf vomit. --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 19:50, 29 January 2009 (EST)
:Your dwarves are stepping out into outdoor light, if the farm is roofless. The article specifically mentions that it's ''indoor'' light that doesn't affect cave adaptation.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 20:40, 29 January 2009 (EST)
:: The article states that ''Occasional or brief exposures to sunlight cannot prevent cave adaption. '' It does not qualify with respect to indoor/outdoor at this point. That is, I'm questioning the statement that '''''brief''''' exposure is insufficient to trigger/treat. --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 18:37, 31 January 2009 (EST)
:::I see no statement that says that brief exposure does not trigger cave adaptation, unless I'm missing something.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 20:26, 1 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Cave adaptation

2009-01-30T01:40:30Z

Quil: /* Greenhouse farming */

User talk:Karl

2009-01-28T05:18:44Z

Quil: New page: {{subst:hi}}--~~~~

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. This is a template.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
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* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
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* Most importantly, [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:18, 28 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-28T05:16:56Z

Quil: /* A joke, right */

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
::But if you don't have soil to farm on, you don't have plants to gather either. And getting the soil muddy can take far too long, especially early on. --[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 10:14, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Volcanic Death ==

Insofar as I can tell, the [[Losing#Volcanic Death|Volcanic Death]] section seems to be essentially fabrication as of v40d. I've never seen a volcano erupt, and doors are utterly invulnerable to being melted or set on fire when closed, if memory serves. Also for some reason I suspect that obsidian doesn't melt in lava, although I could be imagining that one. Comments?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:02, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:Closed doors don't melt, unless something changed in the last five or so seconds. I regularly use doors to hold back magma, and have a basalt door doing so in my current fort. Obsidian stones do melt in lava, however. It's possible that you've never seen a volcano erupt because you've only had a magma vent and not a volcano, because as far as I know they aren't the same thing.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Oh, that's right. Forgot about that. Though I do expect it'll be changing eventually. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:37, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Okay, yes, apparently I was hallucinating that obsidian didn't melt in lava. Having specifically hunted down volcanoes to attempt to build fortresses in on several occasions, I'm reasonably sure that eruptions haven't been implemented yet unless I'm very lucky or eruptions are very uncommon. Unless the comments that Toady intends to increase the dangerousness of volcanoes are way out of date, it's not actually been implemented yet.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 15:12, 3 January 2009 (EST)

:::Well, they do refill, maybe that's what he meant? I do still hope he'll make them erupt, though. But it's easy enough to simulate an eruption - just channel the rim. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:23, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:::I, too, relish the challenge of building magma forges in a region that occasionally fills with high-pressure magma. Either a lot of fun when you get it right, or a lot of [[fun]] when you get it wrong.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 07:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::There is still the bottomless pit bug where a large amount of magma spawns above a bottomless pit. I have experienced it my self. This will cause a large amount of that magma to flow over the edges of the pit and kill nearby creatures. It also will magma purge almost anything inside the pit, including lighting coal and lignite on fire.--[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 13, January 2009

::IIRC, the only case of volcanoes "erupting" was when magma refills were first implemented and DF was unable to judge the correct height to refill magma to in saves from older versions. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:08, 20 January 2009 (EST)

== A joke, right ==
This is a joke, right? My Dwarf Fortress is entirely self contained, I have a secret back door (a drawbridge) that can be used for the brave lumberdwarves, and all of my farming is indoors on sand. I am almost done making my fort bolt-proof, from where my drawbridge is, and I have enough food without farming for at least 5 months. By that time I could have 20 trained fighters ready to repel the siege. I got really lucky with fort design, but even a normal straight down fortress should have little problem waiting for a bit while they train.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 18:28, 27 January 2009 (EST)
:I believe that while, yes, many experienced fortress builders have indeed made their fortresses utterly invulnerable, and the section does indeed contain some humour, sieges are still a fairly common way to <s>lose</s> have [[fun]], so it's entirely valid to put it in the "how to lose" section. I assume that, since you have no problems with the other entries, that you regularly flood yourself or starve to death, rather than fall to goblins?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:16, 28 January 2009 (EST)

40d:Waterfall

2009-01-25T02:41:48Z

Quil: /* Water pressure within Waterfalls */

'''Waterfalls''' can be found often in [[mountain]]s. To locate them in the region map, check for [[river]]s that cross tall [[cliff]]s.

Waterfalls, like any other falling [[water]], generate [[mist]] that gives your dwarves happy [[thought]]s: "He was comforted by a lovely waterfall lately." Mist makes [[dwarves]] happy even if it's just from water cascading down a [[stair]]way, which in real life might be more of a cause for alarm.

If it's cold enough for water to freeze, the waterfall will freeze as well, forming a partial wall.

[[Image:Waterfall1.JPG]]

== [[Water pressure|Water Pressure]] within Waterfalls==

Water at the bottom keeps the pressure of the water at the top of the waterfall. Even water far away from the waterfall has the pressure of the first z-level of the waterfall. Channels dug after a waterfall will overflow.

== Artificial waterfall ==

By creating a stream of falling water with screw pumps, you can engineer a waterfall to take advantage of the happiness it causes. Such waterfalls can become highly complex indeed. One possible variant is a fountain, which often utilizes water pressure and a remote pumping system.

Since water falls straight down without splattering, you need not account for a splash zone when creating an artificial waterfall.

One dwarven waterfall can be seen [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-193-artificalwaterfall here], at DFMA, in movie form. A mistake to note: Water is hitting the side of the bridges, which splashes the water around and can knock dwarves in.

{{World}}

[[category:world]]

40d Talk:Magma

2009-01-24T05:36:58Z

Quil: /* Temperature setting */

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

User talk:PencilinHand

2009-01-23T20:42:32Z

Quil:

User talk:Sotanaht

2009-01-22T21:31:26Z

Quil: New page: {{subst:hi}} ~~~~

40d Talk:Challenges

2009-01-22T01:43:41Z

Quil: /* Hermit Challenge */

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]

:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
..
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
>^
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:
| /
| /
| /
|/
|\
| \
| \
| \
:Or:
| /
| /
| /
|/___
| /
| /
| /
|/___
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Agoraphobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

==Genesis==
Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves.

::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.

::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.

::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.

:::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.

:::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize.

:::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.

:::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)

==Noblesse requis==

Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:Sure – it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!
:Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)
::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Magma/Lava Waterfall ==

Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)

:I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves & ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.
:On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::Which is why it's great building your fort into the the ledge a few levels over a Magma Pipe ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:01, 12 January 2009 (EST)

::::Hmm, that would be one way to do it, too bad I can't search for maps with that specific of a terrain set. Anyways, there has to be a way to spill off at least some of the magma as the magma pipes fill slowly but constantly from the bottom. Also, I learned from my failed experiment that Coke roads + magma spillover = road of fire. Unusable except for turning your fortress into Mordor, which is awesome in it's own way. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 21:29, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::::LOL, yes, I saw that and was thinking something along the lines of Mordor myself ;) As for spill over, the magma tends to flow off to the side off the top of the magma pipe where I'm at, resulting in a net loss to evaporation, so I just turn it off for a season once or twice a year. As for finding a magma pipe that's exposed *and* sunken, to provide atleast one level of inaccessible floor around the pipe, I'd look in the mountains, where you've got many many levels of elevation. Or atleast, that's what my map looks like (50+ levels) with the majority of the map being mountain tiles, and one corner (of a 2x4 map) being desert. It had two * listed in the height map, '''''but no chasm''''', so that could help to find one. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:35, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:Or, how about a dual water/magma waterfall, meeting on the road leading in? Encase your enemies in carbonite, err, obsidian. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:31, 15 January 2009 (EST)

== "Real time" challenge talk ==

1) As mentioned in the challenge, opening any menu pauses the game

2) "You have struck Alunite!" Anyone else get this message and a pause every 5 minutes?

If you were to keep the game running while you slept -- and trust me, I have -- all it takes is one minor inconvenience of the legion the game contains to pause it. I set the game to keep running before I went to bed one night, and between doing that and going to brush my teeth, it paused. I resumed, lay down in bed, and not a minute later, I opened my eyes to see the game had paused ''again.'' Too much stuff causes the game to pause to really execute this without constant babying.

Overall, I don't see this challenge as being feasible. Not bad in theory, but impossible in practice. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 06:15, 16 January 2009 (EST)

:Yes, thats true. That challenge would require either a new version where pausing-for-announcements can be disabled or a helper program to automatically acknowledge them and unpause the game. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:54, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Hermit Challenge ==

Does anyone have any tips for not having any damn migrants? The carps can't eat everyone.
: Well, you can just kill them all. Atom smasher, lava, water, goblin siege, choose your way to kill them. Even random ballista bolt could do the trick! Bonus point for the creative part !? :D [[User:Karl|Karl]] 19:45, 21 January 2009 (EST)
::Well, if the problem gets too extreme, you can adjust your maximum population to 1 in the ini files, and see if that works...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 20:43, 21 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Fortress guard

2009-01-20T23:27:14Z

Quil: /* Elite guards 'worthless'? */

Does anyone have any advice on reasons I should put a new migrant into the Fortress Guard, instead of making him or her a regular soldier, whom I can control better? I assume it gives the Captain a happy thought to have more guards, but other than that, I prefer having a new soldier instead of a new guard. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 02:39, 2 December 2007 (EST)
:Untill he is close to elite status it is probably better to have more guards as I think that the more guards you have - the more chances that a guard will take care of a criminal and not a hammerer. Having elite guards is really totally worthless.--[[User:Another|Another]] 10:02, 2 December 2007 (EST)

Why was this moved from "Fortress guard"? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:07, 2 February 2008 (EST)
:Because {{user|Ironxides}} didn't read the wiki naming guidelines and decided it looked better with a capital G. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:30, 3 February 2008 (EST)

When I switched a squad to fortress guard, they stopped using the barracks to sleep in but continued to use it for training. Can anyone confirm this behaviour? (39c) [[User:Marasmusine|Marasmusine]] 12:01, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

:I can confirm that. Guards like private quarters, if they can afford them and they are available, but sparring happens in barracks, period, whether the barracks are defined by beds or by weapon racks or armor stands. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:48, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

In my experience, the number of Royal guard required is not a 1/20 of population, but equals to number of nobles. It also worth noting, that sometimes they will do the job 'Guard <noblename>'--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:56, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Nope, it's 1/20th. It just seems that way because 1/20th will wind up being close to the number of nobles that you'll have. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:52, 26 December 2008 (EST)

I don't have a captain (didn't assign one), but I still can assign Fortress and Royal Guards. So the first paragraph is misleading? Thanks. [[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]]

== Elite guards 'worthless'? ==

Could someone clarify this issue for me? Do they turn into essentially Philosophers with combat skills after being proclaimed champions? Don't they perform guard duties anymore?
:They still perform their guard duties, but you can't move them from being guards, which many would regard as a less-than-ideal situation for their elite dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:04, 20 January 2009 (EST)
:: Perhaps "effectively useless" is too strong, then? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 18:22, 20 January 2009 (EST)
:::Adjusted.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:27, 20 January 2009 (EST)

40d:Fortress guard

2009-01-20T23:26:48Z

Quil: /* The Fortress Guard */ "useless" -> "less flexible"

==The Fortress Guard==
The '''Fortress Guard''' is a military organization that essentially serves as a combined police and militia. Dwarves can be inducted into the Guard when the [[sheriff]] is promoted to the [[captain of the guard]].

1/10 (rounded down) of the [[fortress]] population should be members of the fortress guard. Ignoring this requirement mostly just annoys [[noble]]s, and the [[captain of the guard]] will have to deal with [[justice]] matters on their own. Once the [[hammerer]] arrives, they will personally deal out their own brand of vigilante [[justice]], if the fortress guard isn't doing its job. Note, that he will act only if some fortress guard officer was assigned to punish a dwarf, but didn't do it for some time, so, if you have NO guards, the Hammerer will NOT harm "criminals"{{Version|0.27.169.33g}}.

Guards act like [[military]] dwarves, but they cannot be commanded. They will attack any hostile creatures they see, but usually ignore wild [[animal]]s. When not patrolling the fortress, they will engage in [[sparring]] or [[archery range|target practice]] the same way regular soldiers with the same assigned [[weapon]] will. In a [[siege]], the fortress guard tend to make suicidal charges at the enemy and get slaughtered.

To assign a dwarf to the Fortress Guard, {{Key|v}}iew the dwarf, select {{Key|p}}references, and you will see a new option {{Key|C}} Fortress Guard. This option only appears after the Sheriff is promoted to Captain of the Guard.

Dwarves in the Fortress Guard spend most of their time [[sparring]] and will gain weapon (or wrestling) skill very quickly. Unfortunately, once they reach "Great" skill with their weapons, they will become [[hero]]es and can no longer be turned back into regular soldiers or civilians, greatly reducing their flexibility. If you want to retain use of dwarves in the Guard, either switch their weapons when they get above Adept, or rotate them into the regular military, where you can still give them orders. See [[Soldier#Heroes and Champions]] for more details.

==The Royal Guard==
The '''Royal Guard''' is activated by the arrival of any civ leader noble. For most forts this will be the [[Baron]], but could be the [[Count]], [[Duke]] or [[King]] if you jump a couple of steps up the social ladder at once. Dwarves are assigned to the Royal Guard in the same manner as the Fortress Guard (from the {{Key|v}}iew -> {{Key|p}}references menu), and act in most respects like the Fortress Guards do. They are not involved in the punishment of criminals, but they will spar in the barracks and can be assigned weapons and armour.

Nobles such as the [[Baron]] and consorts will receive unhappy thoughts if there are not enough Royal Guards. You need 1/20 of your population, rounded down, in the Royal Guard to avoid this.

==See also==
*[[Department of Dwarven Veteran's Affairs]]

40d:Losing

2009-01-20T23:22:28Z

Quil: /* Invasion */ Linkage

Losing is fun!

Either way, it keeps you busy.

Most new players will lose their first few forts; <s>if</s> when you lose a [[fortress]], don't feel like you don't understand the game. Dwarf Fortress has a steep learning curve, and part of the appeal is discovering things for yourself. However, this Wiki serves as an excellent place to speed up the learning process.

If you lose, you can always [[reclaim fortress mode|reclaim fortress]] or go visit it in [[adventurer mode]].

If you're looking for more ways to <s>die horribly</s> test yourself, try either the [[Difficult Seeds]], [[Mega Constructions]], or the [[Challenges]] pages.

== Autopsy ==

Various things can cause you to lose a fortress.

=== Losing your miners ===

If your [[miner]]s are killed in a [[cave-in|collapse]] and their equipment destroyed, chances are good that you will no longer be able to continue your efforts. Consider abandoning your fortress. Alternatively, you can try to keep your fortress running long enough to request additional [[pick]]s from your Outpost [[Liaison]], who will arrive with the next dwarven trade [[caravan]]. It will take another year before they will return. 
Also consider the tedious but fun option of making [[buildings]] outside! If your [[woodcutter]]s with [[axe]]s are still available, then you can build structures of [[wood]]. This is not recommended for very new players though, as it is intensely resource-demanding and takes a lot of managing to get right. (Also not recommended if you don't understand the z-axis system yet.)

=== Starvation ===

A serious danger, generally in the more inhospitable [[climate]]s, is the loss of your [[dwarves]] due to starvation; if you are in the heart of a [[mountain]] with no [[soil]] to build on, it is possible you will not be able to establish [[farm]]s. As dwarves begin to starve, they will become Hungry, then Starving. This will cause them to become very angry. When they die, their friends will become upset and will become even angrier, potentially causing the remainder of your fortress to break out in a terminal brawl.

Don't forget your alternative sources of [[food]]. Try [[butchering]] your [[animals]], [[plant gathering|gathering plants]], or resorting to [[hunting]] of local wildlife.

===Dehydration===

One of the biggest problems with a fortress that has no [[brook]], [[stream]], [[river]], or other source of fresh [[water]]. Water must be rapidly gathered from stagnant pools and stored into an indoor basin or water tower, with sufficient depth before it [[evaporate]]s. If this fails, all of the water on the map will likely evaporate and your dwarves will be left without any water.

Healthy dwarves will not die of thirst as long as they have alcohol, which in the current version can be [[Brewing|brewed]] without the use of water. However, injured dwarves must be given water, not alcohol, or they will die of dehydration.

In the current version (40d) rain will refill stagnant pools of water slightly. If the map is a hot place, such as a desert, however, than there can still be long periods of time with no water. Snow will also not refill pools, so in some cold places you can have a lack of water. Also, if weather has been turned off in the init file then there will be no rain and no water.

===Flooding accidents===

The opposite side of the dehydration spectrum is having too ''much'' water. Remember that water can [[flow]] in 10 directions (the 8 horizontal ones as well as up and down ) [[Magma]], unlike water, does not flow up.

If your fortress is beginning to flood from [[Water#Sourced Water|sourced water]], abandon all of the levels the water can reach immediately—drafting dwarves into the [[military]] and stationing them onto the surface if need be. You will never be able to recover those areas unless you can manage to [[pump]] out the water faster than it floods in, which can take over a year or two of game time to establish a functioning automated pump system. Generally, a flooding accident spells doom for your fortress.

===Invasion===

The [[goblin]]s first come with about a dozen soldiers to [[siege]] your fort. Then they come again with about two dozen. Then three. Soon enough your [[trap]]s are all sprung, your [[door]]s beaten down, and your dwarves are dead. Without some simple [[Fortress defense|defense]]s, such as a [[moat]], a horde of goblins on your doorstep can be deadly. While it is easily possible to build an utterly impenetrable fortress thanks to the general lack of goblinoid siege engines (barring trolls, although even they can be defeated by drawbridges and moats), they won't just give up and go away. Should you find yourself trapped inside your own fortress, you may find the [[Losing#Siege|Siege]] entry at the bottom of this article useful.

===Wildlife===

Goblins aren't the only creatures that want you dead. Be it [[unicorn|unicorns]], [[hippo|hippos]], [[undead]] [[elephant|elephants]] or a [[giant cave spider]], a sudden wildlife attack can quickly cripple or destroy an unprepared fortress.

===Volcanic Death===

{{Colored Notice Box|#00f|There is dispute over whether volcanoes actually erupt or if this behavior is the product of a bug where a [[bottomless pit]] and volcano are placed on top of each other.}}

[[Volcano]]es (read: '''''not''''' [[magma]] vents, actual ''volcanoes'') can and will erupt unexpectedly.{{verify}} If you've got front doors to your fort, don't forget to lock them during an eruption... and make sure you've got some way to remove excess magma, too.

Oh, that's right, you never installed any front doors. You were hoping that you could just dump the invaders into the volcano as they walked up to your front entrance, which is (conveniently) right on the edge of the lava. Whoops. Say goodbye to half your fort.

This advice also applies if you're trying to pull a [[Boatmurdered]] (i.e. flood the world with magma) or if you just want to roast those sieges sitting at your front door.

===General Unhappiness===

Think it's no big deal to leave your dwarves with a medicore [[dining room]], living room, and a generally inadequate fortress?

If there is little in a fortress to give your dwarves happy [[thoughts]] and enough to give them unhappy [[thoughts]], then your dwarves will start to throw tantrums, go melancholy, and destroy your [[civilization]]. Unhappiness is more likely to occur if your fortress is suffering other kinds of downfall.

===Siege===
Should hosts of goblins besiege your gates, drive your peasantry inside and force you to seal off from the outside world, you may have already lost the game. Although a dwarven fortress can be made to appear self-contained, with sources of [[metal]], [[fuel]], underground [[list of crops|crops]] and even livestock kept within inaccessible tunnels, very rarely if ever can a fortress sustain such a state indefinitely. For example, [[trade]] with the outside world has now been shut off, leaving you only what minerals are on your map for the production of mandate goods. This results in a breakdown of social order if your [[Hammerer]] kills and maims dwarves. [[Shell]], [[bone]], [[leather]] and other products commonly acquired by [[hunting]] and [[fishing]] can no longer be found by your workers, which can drive moody [[craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves]] to commit suicide. Rotten [[vermin]] [[corpse]]s begin to heap in your food supply, forcing you to dump these into garbage pits and refuse piles generating [[miasma]]. One fell miscalculation of your [[fuel]] reserves may leave you without [[coke]] to refine further coal, and without a supply of timber for your wood burning [[furnace]] this can drive your [[weaponsmith]]s to melancholy or berserk rage, and worse, end your vital [[weapon]]s production for a future counterattack. Unless an interior watersupply was established your wounded will die of dehydration and your entire colony will hinge on [[alcohol|booze]] production; a delicate balancing act.

With all these critical industries unproductive, dwarves dying, and friends mourning over the rotting heaps of slain loved ones, its important to remember your dwarves have nothing to do but throw funeral receptions, grief counseling sessions, and the occasional keg stand. This means they've all become one big happy family of friends, manically depressed from the loss of any dwarf.

In short, the attacking army can simply wait until your dwarves emo themselves to death.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Losing

2009-01-20T23:20:15Z

Quil: Invasion section: rewrite for spelling, grammar, and comprehensibility.

Losing is fun!

Either way, it keeps you busy.

Most new players will lose their first few forts; <s>if</s> when you lose a [[fortress]], don't feel like you don't understand the game. Dwarf Fortress has a steep learning curve, and part of the appeal is discovering things for yourself. However, this Wiki serves as an excellent place to speed up the learning process.

If you lose, you can always [[reclaim fortress mode|reclaim fortress]] or go visit it in [[adventurer mode]].

If you're looking for more ways to <s>die horribly</s> test yourself, try either the [[Difficult Seeds]], [[Mega Constructions]], or the [[Challenges]] pages.

== Autopsy ==

Various things can cause you to lose a fortress.

=== Losing your miners ===

If your [[miner]]s are killed in a [[cave-in|collapse]] and their equipment destroyed, chances are good that you will no longer be able to continue your efforts. Consider abandoning your fortress. Alternatively, you can try to keep your fortress running long enough to request additional [[pick]]s from your Outpost [[Liaison]], who will arrive with the next dwarven trade [[caravan]]. It will take another year before they will return. 
Also consider the tedious but fun option of making [[buildings]] outside! If your [[woodcutter]]s with [[axe]]s are still available, then you can build structures of [[wood]]. This is not recommended for very new players though, as it is intensely resource-demanding and takes a lot of managing to get right. (Also not recommended if you don't understand the z-axis system yet.)

=== Starvation ===

A serious danger, generally in the more inhospitable [[climate]]s, is the loss of your [[dwarves]] due to starvation; if you are in the heart of a [[mountain]] with no [[soil]] to build on, it is possible you will not be able to establish [[farm]]s. As dwarves begin to starve, they will become Hungry, then Starving. This will cause them to become very angry. When they die, their friends will become upset and will become even angrier, potentially causing the remainder of your fortress to break out in a terminal brawl.

Don't forget your alternative sources of [[food]]. Try [[butchering]] your [[animals]], [[plant gathering|gathering plants]], or resorting to [[hunting]] of local wildlife.

===Dehydration===

One of the biggest problems with a fortress that has no [[brook]], [[stream]], [[river]], or other source of fresh [[water]]. Water must be rapidly gathered from stagnant pools and stored into an indoor basin or water tower, with sufficient depth before it [[evaporate]]s. If this fails, all of the water on the map will likely evaporate and your dwarves will be left without any water.

Healthy dwarves will not die of thirst as long as they have alcohol, which in the current version can be [[Brewing|brewed]] without the use of water. However, injured dwarves must be given water, not alcohol, or they will die of dehydration.

In the current version (40d) rain will refill stagnant pools of water slightly. If the map is a hot place, such as a desert, however, than there can still be long periods of time with no water. Snow will also not refill pools, so in some cold places you can have a lack of water. Also, if weather has been turned off in the init file then there will be no rain and no water.

===Flooding accidents===

The opposite side of the dehydration spectrum is having too ''much'' water. Remember that water can [[flow]] in 10 directions (the 8 horizontal ones as well as up and down ) [[Magma]], unlike water, does not flow up.

If your fortress is beginning to flood from [[Water#Sourced Water|sourced water]], abandon all of the levels the water can reach immediately—drafting dwarves into the [[military]] and stationing them onto the surface if need be. You will never be able to recover those areas unless you can manage to [[pump]] out the water faster than it floods in, which can take over a year or two of game time to establish a functioning automated pump system. Generally, a flooding accident spells doom for your fortress.

===Invasion===

The [[goblin]]s first come with about a dozen soldiers to [[siege]] your fort. Then they come again with about two dozen. Then three. Soon enough your [[trap]]s are all sprung, your [[door]]s beaten down, and your dwarves are dead. Without some simple [[Fortress defense|defense]]s, such as a [[moat]], a horde of goblins on your doorstep can be deadly. While it is easily possible to build an utterly impenetrable fortress thanks to the general lack of goblinoid siege engines (barring trolls, although even they can be defeated by drawbridges and moats), they won't just give up and go away. Should you find yourself trapped inside your own fortress, you may find the Siege entry at the bottom of this article useful.

===Wildlife===

Goblins aren't the only creatures that want you dead. Be it [[unicorn|unicorns]], [[hippo|hippos]], [[undead]] [[elephant|elephants]] or a [[giant cave spider]], a sudden wildlife attack can quickly cripple or destroy an unprepared fortress.

===Volcanic Death===

{{Colored Notice Box|#00f|There is dispute over whether volcanoes actually erupt or if this behavior is the product of a bug where a [[bottomless pit]] and volcano are placed on top of each other.}}

[[Volcano]]es (read: '''''not''''' [[magma]] vents, actual ''volcanoes'') can and will erupt unexpectedly.{{verify}} If you've got front doors to your fort, don't forget to lock them during an eruption... and make sure you've got some way to remove excess magma, too.

Oh, that's right, you never installed any front doors. You were hoping that you could just dump the invaders into the volcano as they walked up to your front entrance, which is (conveniently) right on the edge of the lava. Whoops. Say goodbye to half your fort.

This advice also applies if you're trying to pull a [[Boatmurdered]] (i.e. flood the world with magma) or if you just want to roast those sieges sitting at your front door.

===General Unhappiness===

Think it's no big deal to leave your dwarves with a medicore [[dining room]], living room, and a generally inadequate fortress?

If there is little in a fortress to give your dwarves happy [[thoughts]] and enough to give them unhappy [[thoughts]], then your dwarves will start to throw tantrums, go melancholy, and destroy your [[civilization]]. Unhappiness is more likely to occur if your fortress is suffering other kinds of downfall.

===Siege===
Should hosts of goblins besiege your gates, drive your peasantry inside and force you to seal off from the outside world, you may have already lost the game. Although a dwarven fortress can be made to appear self-contained, with sources of [[metal]], [[fuel]], underground [[list of crops|crops]] and even livestock kept within inaccessible tunnels, very rarely if ever can a fortress sustain such a state indefinitely. For example, [[trade]] with the outside world has now been shut off, leaving you only what minerals are on your map for the production of mandate goods. This results in a breakdown of social order if your [[Hammerer]] kills and maims dwarves. [[Shell]], [[bone]], [[leather]] and other products commonly acquired by [[hunting]] and [[fishing]] can no longer be found by your workers, which can drive moody [[craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves]] to commit suicide. Rotten [[vermin]] [[corpse]]s begin to heap in your food supply, forcing you to dump these into garbage pits and refuse piles generating [[miasma]]. One fell miscalculation of your [[fuel]] reserves may leave you without [[coke]] to refine further coal, and without a supply of timber for your wood burning [[furnace]] this can drive your [[weaponsmith]]s to melancholy or berserk rage, and worse, end your vital [[weapon]]s production for a future counterattack. Unless an interior watersupply was established your wounded will die of dehydration and your entire colony will hinge on [[alcohol|booze]] production; a delicate balancing act.

With all these critical industries unproductive, dwarves dying, and friends mourning over the rotting heaps of slain loved ones, its important to remember your dwarves have nothing to do but throw funeral receptions, grief counseling sessions, and the occasional keg stand. This means they've all become one big happy family of friends, manically depressed from the loss of any dwarf.

In short, the attacking army can simply wait until your dwarves emo themselves to death.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d Talk:Fortress guard

2009-01-20T23:04:32Z

Quil: /* Elite guards 'worthless'? */

40d:Wolf

2009-01-20T18:17:35Z

Quil: typo correction

{{CreatureInfo|name=Wolf|symbol=w|color={{COLOR:7:0:0}}|bones=5|chunks=5|meat=5|fat=1|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome=
* Tundra
* Taiga [[forest]]
* Any [[temperate]] forest
* Temperate shrubland
}}

'''Wolves''' are predators and live in many [[regions]]. They have more chance to appear in [[winter]] than in other seasons. Wolves are social [[animals]] that live in groups. One on one, an armed [[dwarf]] will likely win with minor injuries, but if a pack gangs up, the hapless dwarf is in deathly trouble. A lone [[hunter]] will have trouble with wolves; they can spend all of their [[bolt|ammunition]] on a pack of wolves and then be eaten by the survivors after trying to bludgeon them to death with their crossbow. If there are packs of wolves on the map, it may be advisable to team up hunters with trained [[dog]]s, or send out military patrols to deal with them instead. Strength in numbers, after all.

In [[Adventure mode]], wolves are common ambushers in random [[encounters]] that will occur across the world map. Even a pack of them should be easily dispatched by an inexperienced adventurer, provided he is suitably equipped.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:WOLF]
[NAME:wolf:wolves:wolf]
[TILE:'w'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[PETVALUE:50]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][NATURAL][PET]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:cunning]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:wolf pup:wolf pups]
[FAT:1]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME_TUNDRA]
[BIOME_FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME_ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME_SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[LAYERING:200]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Wolf

2009-01-20T18:14:07Z

Quil: Rewritten, removed repetition

{{CreatureInfo|name=Wolf|symbol=w|color={{COLOR:7:0:0}}|bones=5|chunks=5|meat=5|fat=1|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome=
* Tundra
* Taiga [[forest]]
* Any [[temperate]] forest
* Temperate shrubland
}}

'''Wolves''' are predators and live in many [[regions]]. They have more chance to appear in [[winter]] than in other seasons. Wolves are social [[animals]] that live in groups. One on one, an armed [[dwarf]] will likely win with minor injuries, but if a pack gangs up, the hapless dwarf is in deathly trouble. A lone [[hunter]] will have trouble with wolves; they can spend all of their [[ammunition|bolt]] on a pack of wolves and then be eaten by the survivors after trying to bludgeon them to death with their crossbow. If there are packs of wolves on the map, it may be advisable to team up hunters with trained [[dog]]s, or send out military patrols to deal with them instead. Strength in numbers, after all.

In [[Adventure mode]], wolves are common ambushers in random [[encounters]] that will occur across the world map. Even a pack of them should be easily dispatched by an inexperienced adventurer, provided he is suitably equipped.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:WOLF]
[NAME:wolf:wolves:wolf]
[TILE:'w'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[PETVALUE:50]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][NATURAL][PET]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:cunning]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:wolf pup:wolf pups]
[FAT:1]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME_TUNDRA]
[BIOME_FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME_ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME_SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[LAYERING:200]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Mountain goat

2009-01-20T18:01:51Z

Quil: typo correction

{{CreatureInfo|name=Mountain goat|symbol=g|color={{COLOR:7:0:1}}|bones=5|chunks=5|meat=5|fat=2|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome= [[Mountain]]}}

'''Mountain goats''' are fairly weak animals and can be wrestled to death by a dabbling wrestler. They can also, of course, be hunted for meat, bones and skin.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:GOAT_MOUNTAIN]
[NAME:mountain goat:mountain goats:mountain goat]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:4]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER]
[PETVALUE:50]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[PREFSTRING:beards]
[PREFSTRING:long horns]
[PREFSTRING:surefootedness]
[NATURAL][PET]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:2HEAD_HORN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF]
[MAXAGE:20:30]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:STANCE:kick:kicks:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:mountain goat kid:mountain goat kids]
[SIZE:5]
[FAT:2]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME_MOUNTAIN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:200]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d Talk:Captain of the guard

2009-01-20T16:59:11Z

Quil: /* Put Captain Into Actual Guard Unit? */

Is it just me, or can this dwarf not be assigned a room once the economy starts (and thus cannot satisfy his "Quarters" requirement)? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 09:11, 6 December 2007 (EST)
:This same thing seems to apply to the mayor. Assigning bedrooms can only be done for migrated nobles and legendary dwarves during the economy for some reason. --[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]] 12:35, 6 December 2007 (EST)
---I'm pretty sure the mayor and captain could be assigned quarters under the economy in .33c, but I don't have that fort anymore to check it. Administrators (broker, trader..) needed to rent though. [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 13:13, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Anarchy ==

Is it necessary to have a standing guard? Will my fortress revolt if there isn't one?--[[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 03:54, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:Nope. This article [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Guards here], in the archive, does a good job on the guards, but I don't know whether or not it is completely accurate in this version.
:It will give unhappy thoughts to certain nobles, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:01, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

== Captain unnecessary for fortress guard ==

I tend to put off assigning a Sheriff, so I recently discovered that dwarves can still be assigned to the fortress guard, even if the Captain's position is vacant.

I'm not sure if they actually dispense justice, though. Can anyone confirm that?
[[User:Medi|Medi]] 20:58, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

== Put Captain Into Actual Guard Unit? ==

This may seem like an odd question, but do I have to literally put my Captain of the Guard into the Guard ("C" in prefs)?
[[User:Squints|Squints]] 10:23, 20 January 2009 (EDT)
:No, the captain of the guard does their job regardless, I do believe.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 11:59, 20 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Horn silver

2009-01-20T13:11:27Z

Quil: /* Difference between Horn and Native silver? */

==Difference between Horn and Native silver?==
Is there one? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 04:49, 20 January 2009 (EST)
:A quick check of the raws suggests that the only differences between horn silver and native silver is that they have different location specifications, but since horn silver appears only in native silver veins, they are essentially identical.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 08:11, 20 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Starting location

2009-01-20T04:45:45Z

Quil: /* "Invaluable" vs. "Unnecessary" */ Ye gods, how much discussion over a single sentence?

40d:Starting location

2009-01-20T04:42:43Z

Quil: /* Magma */ fix'd

A '''starting location''' (also called a ''starting site'') is a group of map tiles where a [[dwarf|dwarven]] settlement is located. Starting out in the right location is crucial to not [[fun|losing]]. Beginning players have several things to keep in mind when selecting a site.

== Choosing sites ==

[[Image:Embark_info.PNG|thumb|right|The Choose Fortress Location screen.]] When starting [[dwarf fortress mode]], the "Choose Fortress Location" screen allows you to choose your site. The right-hand pane shows its location within the entire generated [[world]]; the middle pane ("[[Region]]") shows the general [[biome|terrain]] types and [[civilization]]s in the area; and the left-hand pane shows the "Local" map. The {{k|u}}{{k|m}}{{k|k}}{{k|h}} and {{k|U}}{{k|M}}{{k|K}}{{k|H}} keys allow you to change the placement and size of your starting site within the region map -- any rectangular shape from 2x2 tiles up to the entire local area (16x16 tiles). The site you choose must contain at least one non-[[mountain]]/[[river]] square to be accessible to travelers as well as your settlers.

The far-right pane displays text information about the map tiles you have selected. Sites will usually span more than one [[biome]] type; to see the information on each biome, press the function keys ({{k|F1}} through {{k|F8}}, depending on how many biomes are contained in your site). Each biome will be home to different [[creatures]] as well as different types of rock and [[stone|rock layers]].

Pressing {{k|tab}} will show other location information as well:
* What civilizations can reach the site (remote sites such as [[glacier]]s and [[island]]s are often accessible only to dwarven [[immigrant]]s and [[trade]]rs; all other locations are usually accessible to dwarves, [[elves]], [[humans]], and [[goblins]]).
* What dwarven civilization you want your settlers to be from. Depending on whether you chose a civilization from the north, the middle or the south, you will get a combination of [[muskox]]es, [[mule]]s, [[horse]]s or [[camel]]s with your [[wagon]]. More importantly, when you select your starting equipment or make a trade agreement with the dwarven [[Trading|traders]] later you will only be able to select stones that are available at the locations of the other fortresses of your civilization. If you want to later import [[flux]] stone, [[bituminous coal]] or [[bauxite]], you need to chose wisely. You can see what items you civilization has access to on the embark screen. If you are not satisfied, you can abort the game at that stage and start the same map again, on the same location, but choosing a different dwarven civilization. This might similarly determine what kind of [[metal]]s and [[meat]] you can buy.

* The "relative elevation" of the site (useful for seeing how mountainous the terrain is)
* A "cliff indicator" (useful for the same reason)

It is recommended to choose the smallest site possible that still contains all the map features you want ([[river]], [[magma]], [[trees]], etc.) Sites larger than about 6x6 (36 tiles) will run slowly on all but the newest/fastest computers, and even a 6x6 site will probably not run at maximum speed (100 FPS) on a fast computer once several dwarves [[immigration|immigrate]] to the site (see [[maximizing framerate]] for more details).

The utility [[Utilities#Regional Prospector|Regional Prospector]] is very useful in identifying what kind of map features exist underground ([[chasm]]s, [[pits]], [[magma]], [[lake]]s, etc.) This makes good starting sites much easier to find, although it takes away the "surprise" of stumbling upon these features on your own (which may be good or bad, depending on your play style).

Once you have chosen the tiles you want for your site, press {{k|e}} to have your settlers embark on their journey. You will then be prompted to choose what [[starting builds|starting equipment and skills]] you want them to have (you can also choose to have them start with the default equipment and skills).

The [[pregenerated worlds]] page contains several pre-scouted sites (some downloadable), with descriptions of what kinds of resources are available in each.

== Surroundings ==

It's probably a good idea to avoid [[Haunted]], [[Sinister]], and [[Terrifying]] biomes, as well as extremes of cold and heat. Fortunately that still leaves you with a lot of options most of the time. Make sure you've got at least some [[trees]] and vegetation.

Make sure you at least have [[contact]] with [[Dwarves]]; [[Humans]] are also good [[trading]] partners. If you get those two, you'll probably be around [[Elves]] and [[Goblins]] too. Elves will trade some things, but are picky about what they'll accept; Goblins will just lay siege to your fortress every so often once they get angry enough about your presence.

== Terrain ==

[[Mountain]] squares will contain certain features, and each world map [[mountain]] tile is guaranteed an [[underground river]], a [[chasm]], and [[pits]] somewhere in the mountain tiles of the local view. Also, mountainous areas are worth looking into for the [[stone]] and greater probability of finding [[magma]].

[[Water]] is also a valuable commodity, for the purposes of [[farming]] and [[drinking]]. [[Ocean]] water is not drinkable. (See [[#Water |Water]] below.)

[[Forest]], [[jungle]] and [[swamp]] tiles with heavy vegetation are also beneficial for their ample supplies of [[wood]]. (See [[#Lumber |Lumber]] below.)

Some [[biomes]] will also contain unique types of fauna and flora. (See [[#Vegetation|Vegetation]] below.)

The surrounding elevation is a matter of preference. Elevation is represented in numbers from 1 to 9 and the * character for changes in elevation greater than 9. If you want an extreme landscape, with sheer cliffs and drop-offs, then pick a location with a large amount of elevation change (elevation changes of 4 or greater.) If you'd like a flatter landscape, try to settle in an area with low elevation (1's and 2's.) Remember: the more Z-levels you have on your map, the more data your computer will have to process. More Z-Levels will result in decreased performance.

== Layers ==

Pay attention to the [[layer]] types listed on the right when choosing a location. The ones listed in white are [[:Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers|sedimentary]] layers, which have the most [[iron]] [[ore]]s and are the only ones containing [[bituminous coal]]. If you plan to have [[steel]] production, you will also need a supply of [[flux]] stones. Since flux stones are almost always confined to their own layers, keep an eye out for them.

Any layer listed in brown is top[[soil]]. It can be used for farming even without water, but it only rarely contains small amounts of [[stone]] or [[ore]].

Dark gray layers are [[:Category:Igneous Extrusive Stone Layers|igneous extrusive]]. If you want valuable [[metal]]s like [[gold]] and [[aluminum]], these are your best bet.

== Water ==

[[Farming]] won't get you much in the middle of a [[desert]], though you can farm directly on [[sand]]. Try to find an area with a [[brook]] -- larger water sources can hinder [[mining]]. If the game warns you that you've selected an area with an [[aquifer]], pay attention: it's likely going to be very difficult to get through it to the stone below.

Currently a permanent source of water isn't required because farms don't dry out, this is expected to change. If your map starts with even the smallest pond you can dig under it, drain it into the room (and down again if there's that much water), and build a farm on the residual mud – water levels of 1/7 can be ignored when placing the farm plot.

== Lumber ==

The amount of [[tree]]s in the selected [[biome]] will be listed on the right hand side of your location selection screen. [[Treeless]] maps should be avoided by new players.

Trees grow on the lower surface z-levels, so make sure you have a nice large swath to chop down. Just because the biome says "heavily forested" doesn't mean you will actually have trees.

== Vegetation ==

The local flora can be a good source of [[seed]]s, [[alcohol]], and [[food]] for a just started fortress. Use the [[Gather plants]] [[designation]] to collect them for use.

=== Magma ===

Unlike in previous versions, you aren't guaranteed to find a source of [[magma]], unless you have a [[volcano]] or magma vent at your starting location. Having a source of magma on-site is extremely useful for metal- and glassworking since magma-powered versions of forges and furnaces consume no [[fuel]] (except when making [[steel]]), removing the need to search for coal or make charcoal. The site selection screen can give you a good idea of whether or not you'll be able to get any: look for darker igneous rocks like [[basalt]], [[obsidian]], [[gabbro]], and so on.

=== Towns ===

Towns created by other civilizations exist only for your benefit. Humans won't mind at all if you tear apart their main pub to build your tunnel entrance. {{version|0.27.176.38c}} Also, their buildings provide plentiful [[wood]] (a small house contains 34 wood logs. Other buildings have much more.) and other useful items such as prebuilt [[furniture]] and ready to sell trade goods.

{{World}}

{{Starting FAQ}}

[[Category:Guides]]

40d Talk:Bedroom design

2009-01-08T22:35:11Z

Quil: /* Weapon/Armour Racks */

Isn't 200 the absolute maximum number of dwarves one can have at any time?

If so, the High density single floor housing plan of 77x77 is... rather useless, isn't it?

[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 16:51, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:The max number of dwarves can be changed in the init files. So no. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:55, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:Even if you had only 200 dwarves, linking 2, 3, or even 4 rooms together to make noble housing, offices, and the like is quite useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:14, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
::I've always found it more space efficient to throw all my nobles into about a 10x10 room filled with 20x value gem encrusted furniture (granted, I *did* have a legendary gem setter making this easier the last time I did it) and just plop down all their necessities. I currently have a countess/count consort, hammerer, tax collecter, and duchess/duke consort all in one room with all their buildings set as royal. They also have a legendary mechanism hooked up to some gem encrusted spikes. Heh. Heh heh heh. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 04:19, 10 November 2008 (EST)

I have heard that fractal based designs (like the High density single floor housing) can cause the game to slow down is this true? --[[User:Rwindmtg|Rwindmtg]] 06:02, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Bitmap designs ==

Coudl we get some kind of colour key for these? Or standardise them or something if there isn't one? It can be very confusing to tell what is what in them. - [[User:Alloy|Alloy]] 01:37, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:Seconded... GnomeChomsky's Tessellated Apartments in particular are munged, looks like an earthquake broke them along several faultlines... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 00:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::GnomeChomsky's looks fine - only the beds look weird. Its virtually everything after that which isn't in the standard tile set and needs to be changed. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:I don't see why any of them are hard to understand. Access corridors, walls, doors, sometimes furniture. How hard is it to figure out that the small enclosed areas are the bedrooms, and that a door goes at the entrance to each?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:32, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::Its not about hard to understand, its about our style guidelines. All graphics are supposed to be in the standard tileset. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:50, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Most of these diagrams are are large-scale designs that can't be shown via a screenshot, so insisting on "standard tilesets" doesn't even make sense. We could change them to use a consistent set of colors, however. Gnome Chomsky's diagrams use [[template:qd]], which is one of our accepted standards for small diagrams.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:03, 4 December 2008 (EST)

Azaram, what browser are you using and what fonts do you have installed? Can you post a screenshot of what the diagram looks like? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 09:23, 5 December 2008 (EST)

==Weapon/Armour Racks==

You don't need a weapon rack/armor rack to designate a barracks. You can do that with the bed. So why build the racks? [[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]]
:Soldiers banging around against beds and other furniture is the number one cause of wounds and deaths during sparring. Designating a barrack from an armor stand will provide an open dojo without clutter. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:05, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::(added header) Actually, I believe consensus is that beds cause no injuries when collided with, and that the only real difference (until weapon and armour racks become functional, at least) is that you won't get random homeless dwarves trying to sleep in a barracks that have no beds (unless you have a severe shortage of beds), so you can have barracks in military areas without the risk of civilians sleeping in potentially dangerous places.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:37, 6 January 2009 (EST)
:::I'm not sure what to tell you aside from the fact that I routinely had dwarves die of suffocation (broken necks) before I moved my beds out of my barracks. And these were armored legendary (or close to it) wrestlers, to boot. I've never seen civilians get hurt by being in the middle of a sparring match, but I have definitely seen dwarf after dwarf after dwarf turn up dead on top of a barrack bed with the excuse 'suffocation'. Moving the beds out reduced accidents by 100%. I have not had a dwarf get hurt or die in 5 years, where I would otherwise see one to four a year. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:50, 6 January 2009 (EST)
:::::I see, thanks for the heads up. I wondered about the suffocation as well. Another question - do dwarfs train faster as a guard or as an off-duty military dwarf? Does it make a difference? It seems if I have several (say 6) off duty, only two will spar in the barracks, but 6 guards will all spar at the same time. Do I need to designate more barracks? Does it mack a difference if I have two weapon racks in the same room and designate both as barracks?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 01:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)
::::::Fortress/Royal Guards are well known for sparring enthusiastically. The dwarves in the regular military don't have a clear determiner, so it's probably either their stats or their personality. I unfortuantely don't have a clearer answer for you. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:10, 8 January 2009 (EST)
::::RE the bed/suffocation thing, I've had barracks with beds in them and barracks without beds in them, and I must confess I've not seen a statistically significant difference in the amount of injuries that people have suffered when sparring, even with unarmoured sparrers. Although I've only ever had one case of suffocation, long ago, so maybe there's a large element of random chance or some other variable involved.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:35, 8 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Elephant

2009-01-08T22:27:32Z

Quil: /* In Real Life? */

==initial postings==
I changed the line about cave features, but left the rest alone. Are there any other parts that are no longer accurate in this version?--[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:07, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

Someone told me that Toady mentioned he had toned down the elephant aggressivness in one of his daily dev posts, does anyone know anything more about that? I don't want to end up having put up a completely out-of-date article. :P --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:58, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:Elephants seem totally non-agressive now, I don't know if they even defend themselves when attacked. I had a dwarven caravan guard slaughter 3 of them without a single wound, all the elephants did was run even when the dwarf was right next to them. Of course, the dwarf guards have steel instead of iron now, but still, I think elephants are no longer a real threat. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 02:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Then I think Unicorns may have taken their place; in a way they're even worse because they went about slaughtering a bunch of elves without any provocation at all. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 14:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh, the irony of that, eh? --[[User:Xotes|Xotes]] 14:21, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Yep, I didn't fail to notice the new analogy; Elephants:Dwarves::Unicorns:Elves. :D --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 15:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I deleted most of the old information from the page, yes it was funny but after sending a raw peasant to hunt elephants with an axe and having him bring back multiple elephant corpses I decided it was time to change it. Please DO rewrite it and make it better, please DO NOT just revert the old one. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 10:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)

I think this article needs to be preserved for its humor, if nothing else. Can we move it to a 'fun stuff' category of articles?

:There's always the archives. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 15:22, 29 November 2007 (EST)
==Elephants as trade items==
Having a legendary stone carver, I just traded a bunch of stone junk for a caged elephant. Any ideas what to do with it? Any chance I can get a breeding pair by trading more *stone junk* ?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==In Real Life?==

Do we really need this section. There's a whole other wiki that does that, after all... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:42, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:Ok, I'm removing it. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:35, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::Probably a good call. It must have been using mind-control beams on me or something, because for some reason I couldn't decide if it should stay or not...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:27, 8 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T23:35:28Z

Quil: /* No More Elf References? */

==No More Elf References?==

I'm not going to start a revert war, but personally I thought the recently-removed parts of the article comparing the merits of wooden and silver weapons to be amusing and entirely in keeping with the style of this wiki. Impromptu vote, anyone? I vote '''keep''', myself.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:54, 6 January 2009 (EST)
:I agree. Also, it helped further the distinction between wooden and silver weapons, so that a person can easily understand that, for instance, they won't find a wooden hammer.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 22:35, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::'''Keep''', and if I actually gave a crap, I'd have reverted it myself. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:01, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:::'''Keep''', because it was funny, and this wiki doesn't mind funny. I mean, we have D for Dwarf for a reason, yes? --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 01:20, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::'''Keep''', I like flavorful D is for Dwarf entries. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:33, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I don't know, I think there's a difference between "dwarven humour" and "distracting and irrelevant information". I know this "isn't Wikipedia" and that humour is fine, but I prefer *well written* humour, and honestly I'm so sick of hearing people bitch about the elves that it's no longer even remotely funny. Really it's not (for me) so much the humour of it, but its placement. I could see it on the "wood" page, or on the "elves" page (though I'd rather not), but it doesn't have anything to do with silver. [[User:Thestripedone|Thestripedone]] 14:40, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:Quit gettin' mad at video games. Also, keep. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:19, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::I'm gettin' mad at people who play them, not the games themselves! Personally I'd '''delete''', because I think it's unnecessary (as see above), but since I'm (obviously) in the minority I won't kick up a fuss about it. [[User:Thestripedone|Thestripedone]] 18:10, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:It's about a use for silver (sparring weapons) and comparing silver with a material that is also affective for that use. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:47, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:As far as I'm concerned, the section is mildly amusing, also provides some information and links to other articles (as tenuous as their relation may be in some cases), and any random visitor might just happen to look up silver, go "ooh, these are good for sparring, are there any other options?" and hey, there are links to wooden weapons and where to get them from. You never know...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

As an aside, what weapons do the elves provide? I've never thought to look. Wooden swords and bows-and-arrows, and nothing else? [[User:Thestripedone|Thestripedone]] 18:14, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:If I recall, wooden spears and a plethora of edged weapons. I don't think they do hammers or similar bludgeoning things, and they might not do some of the larger swords, although I believe I've seen wooden axes.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:35, 7 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T21:17:32Z

Quil: /* No More Elf References? */

==No More Elf References?==

I'm not going to start a revert war, but personally I thought the recently-removed parts of the article comparing the merits of wooden and silver weapons to be amusing and entirely in keeping with the style of this wiki. Impromptu vote, anyone? I vote '''keep''', myself.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:54, 6 January 2009 (EST)
:I agree. Also, it helped further the distinction between wooden and silver weapons, so that a person can easily understand that, for instance, they won't find a wooden hammer.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 22:35, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::'''Keep''', and if I actually gave a crap, I'd have reverted it myself. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:01, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:::'''Keep''', because it was funny, and this wiki doesn't mind funny. I mean, we have D for Dwarf for a reason, yes? --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 01:20, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::'''Keep''', I like flavorful D is for Dwarf entries. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:33, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I don't know, I think there's a difference between "dwarven humour" and "distracting and irrelevant information". I know this "isn't Wikipedia" and that humour is fine, but I prefer *well written* humour, and honestly I'm so sick of hearing people bitch about the elves that it's no longer even remotely funny. Really it's not (for me) so much the humour of it, but its placement. I could see it on the "wood" page, or on the "elves" page (though I'd rather not), but it doesn't have anything to do with silver. [[User:Thestripedone|Thestripedone]] 14:40, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:It's about a use for silver (sparring weapons) and comparing silver with a material that is also affective for that use. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:47, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:As far as I'm concerned, the section is mildly amusing, also provides some information and links to other articles (as tenuous as their relation may be in some cases), and any random visitor might just happen to look up silver, go "ooh, these are good for sparring, are there any other options?" and hey, there are links to wooden weapons and where to get them from. You never know...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-01-06T23:07:30Z

Quil: /* Pretentious Arrangements */

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Sorting nobles ==
I find it rather silly to have the Expedition leader in the ''Appointed'' section just to be immediately told (s)he can not be appointed. I'm too newbie in terms of nobles to draft sections that make sense, but I feel this needs changing.[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:23, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-06T22:54:42Z

Quil: No more elf references?

40d Talk:Bedroom design

2009-01-06T21:37:57Z

Quil: /* Weapon/Armour Racks */ Doh, rule Z violation

40d Talk:Bedroom design

2009-01-06T21:36:21Z

Quil: /* Weapon/Armour Racks */

40d Talk:Door

2009-01-05T13:25:10Z

Quil: /* Doors for wagons? */

== General Discussion ==

The only change I've noticed with doors so far is the placement: Locked doors no longer count as walls for door-placing purposes, and you can place a door in any unblocked space adjacent to a wall. --[[User:BehroozWolf]]

Doors seem to leak water very slowly for me - anyone else notice this? --[[User:Valdemar]]

: I've never observed doors leaking unless someone walks through them.

: Please sign your comments, guys! Four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) will insert your username and the current date. --[[User:JT|JT]] 21:49, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I've been told that levers can be attached to doors, and that they act much like floodgates with a lever attached. Might want to add something to the article about that - I haven't because I haven't confirmed this yet. [[User:Jp|Jp]] 01:35, 5 November 2007 (EST)

The article says that locked doors prevent dwarves from entering, but does that mean that hostiles can enter them? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:03, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:The doors aren't actually locked. They are just forbidden. I.e. it's not allowed for dwarves to use them. But they are still just a doors, and enemies can open them. Well... At least this is how I understand this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:24, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Creatures that can open doors cannot open forbidden doors. Trolls can open forbidden doors (by breaking them) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:27, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 
::"Creatures that can open doors cannot open forbidden doors" ...unless they are lockpickers. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)
LOCKPICKER Lets a creature open doors that are set to forbidden in Fortress Mode.

I may be jumping at straws, but it seems like wild animals won't go through a door that is kept tightly closed (but not forbidden). Can anyone corroborate or am I nuts? --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: I can confirm this now! Tightly closed but not forbidded will allow your dwarves to pass through, but will keep wild animals from wandering into your fort.
--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:58, 23 February 2008 (EST)

So do doors have to be locked shut to both dwarves and other animals to keep enemies out in, say, a siege? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 11:13, 17 February 2008 (EST)

:I doubt it, I'm almost certain "locked" doubles as both; "tightly closed" just forbids animals. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:51, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

:I'd actually recommend against using the animals option, as it doesn't work properly yet (33g) because the animals are pathfinding as if they're dwarves. Lots of pathing failures will wreck your FPS, and the animals will still get through the door anyways, like when a dwarf opens it. [[User_talk:Squirrelloid#Animals_try_to_path_through_tightly_closed_doors|Here]]'s a bit of testing/observation that was done and written down by Squirrelloid. I'll be posting this to a relevant discussion over in [[Talk:Maximizing_framerate]] to try and shed some more light on something that affects me drastically, and probably affects most everyone else too, even if they don't realize that it's the cause. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:23, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
::Also note this applies to nuissance (ie, hostile) animals - i've now had a crazed camel sit behind a tightly closed door waiting for a dwarf to open it and repeatedly '?' its inability to path. So its not just a 'pets' problem. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:45, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

== Doors for wagons? ==

When I move my trade depot inside, how should I allow wagons in? Do I need 3 doors next to each other? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 15:57, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

: I recommend building a (draw-)bridge 3 tiles wide over a channel, then the depot, then a second bridge further inside, to guarantee arrival of wagons (they will not enter the map if outer drawbridge is up) and still maintain fortress security. There are more elaborate options with traps, water and the like, but this one will work. I doubt wagons can cross doors, but i never tried. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:15, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

:Being that doors require a wall to be next to, you cannot create a 3-wide stretch of doors, (and yes, removing a wall will remove doors that require that wall.) In addition, doors block wagon travel ({{k|D}}), much like stairs. So on all accounts, doors are not an option. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:08, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

:Hint - blast doors. Ie, 3 floodgates connected to the same lever. You can keep them raised most of the time, and lower them as needed. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:45, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

:: I've found Edwards comment to be untrue in 40d. I can build a 'wall' of doors across a pathway bigger than 2 tiles. Removing the 'supporting' walls that allowed me to place the door in the first place does not deconstruct the door. After the 'supporting' wall is removed, I can still lock/unlock/petlock the door, and I can also connect it to a lever. Removing the walls that the door requires also leave the door standing and operable (I can lock/unlock/connect). --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 23:33, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:::I'm fairly sure that wagons don't like doors or floodgates and won't try to pass through them, even if there's ostensibly enough space to do so. Will have a check at some point.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 08:25, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== Dwarfs having happier thoughts about their own doors. ==

Does someone know if this is true or not?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:35, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:It says something akin to "(Dwarf) has admired own fine door lately." Most "Own (item)" messages are happier than just "a(n) (item)". I'd say it's reasonable to assume, though I haven't done any research here. Not sure how one would.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 08:34, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

==Door Strength==
Has anyone tested an adamantium door against something like a colossus? One would imagine that it would stand up to ANYTHING, even a raging colossus, but a test could be handy. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:51, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Um, under 38c, I just had my door destroyed by a troll. This should probably be noted in the article. If nothing's posted in the next couple days, I'll change it myself, I guess. --Jhoosier

:It already is
::Stone, wood, and glass doors can be destroyed by the trolls which usually accompany goblin sieges
:[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:52, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an iron door. That's what I was getting at. Here's a screenshot of it: [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Image:Iron_door.JPG] (On a side note, how the heck do I embed this? Couldn't get it to do so. Ah well, it's linked to now. [[User:Jhoosier|Jhoosier]] 21:04, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

:Huh. OK. The only buildingdestroyers I've gotten were megabeasts (probably since I tend to play on tiny worlds with low goblin populations) so it'll probably be a while before I can test this for myself. This means someone else will have to get a troll and run him through some tests with the Warp utility. (or similar) I have a feeling that any buildingdestroyer can at least deconstruct any door, if not turn it into splinters.
:In the meantime, should we just drop the entire section from the page? Or just turn it into a single sentence like "trolls and some other creatures can destroy doors" [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 00:46, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

I've got a steel door up now, I'll try releasing a captured troll and see if it destroys the steel door. I don't know what everyone's experiences are with doors and door strength, so I'll leave dropping it up to smarter people.

Whoever wrote that article about door strength was talking out of his arse. I've had steel doors torn down left, right and center by trolls, dragons, and all sorts of building destroyers. It's easy to simulate too. Just give [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2] to humans and elves and see what they do to your doors when they even come to trade.
--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]]

== Bursting under water Pressure? ==

In my fort I have a door working as a flood gate that is under a fair amount of pressure. I've noticed it opening seemingly at random and was wondering whether there's a connection. It is attached to a lever and I seem to need to double pull the lever to get it to close. Anyone else notice this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Darthfrodo|Darthfrodo]]
:Please sign your edits using <tt><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></tt>. At any rate, can you do a quick diagram of your setup using the templates for diagrams? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:07, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

== lever-linked doors and lockpickers ==

If a door is linked to a lever, can a lock picking enemy open it? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:40, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

== Doors unable to be constructed from a diagonal. ==

I had a setup like this
{{qd|cols=3
|X|X|X
|X|D|X
|f|F|f
|f|f|f
|F|f|f}}

X= wall
D=door waiting to be built
f=farmer's workshop waiting to be built
F=farmer's workshop waiting to be built

the door kept getting canceled because they couldn't reach it apparently
--[[User:winn|winn]] 12:28, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:Most things can't be build on diagonals. This is especially important to remember when building walls. (Sorry for editing your comment, but it was not displaying as I thought you were going for.) [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:39, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Huh? ==
has anyone else made a granite door? whats up with that? (I'm using a graphic enhancer, not sure which one, and the door is a black outline, with the normal corners.)[[User:Destor|Destor]] 19:53, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
:If you have enabled granite to be used for non-economical purposes, then you can make a granite door. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== Melty mechanisms? ==
Will mechanisms in a metal door melt when magma passes through the door? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:If you don't build them from magma resistant materials, then yes, the mechanism will melt leaving you a door in a corridor flooded with magma. And no way to close it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:04, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::As far as I know, only Bauxite is Magma-safe. I also found it annoying that on the only map I needed it, the merchants wouldn't import any. --[[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 22:56, 16 NOV 2008 (PST)

== Rooms not including door? ==

Been encountering a strange issue...roughly half of the doors in my fortress aren't being included in the room they are assigned to. Meaning, when I create or re-size a room, the walls and surface of the room are encompassed by the flashing, but the door will remain solid and won't be encompassed by the room. More distressing is the fact that this means the value of the doors aren't being factored in, so the two solid gold, gem-encrusted doors I made for a noble are worthless. Anyone else having this problem, or have a fix for it? --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 04:46, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:This is standard behavior. If you wish to include a door in the value-reading of a room, then you need to {{k|q}}uery the door and set it to "Internal." However, this will cause the room size adjustments to ignore the door completely. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 05:48, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

::But why shouldn't it be treated the same as the walls? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 12:13, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It seems to be doing so, some times. I'm going to do a little research later, see if it perhaps is only doing so with certain door materials or values. Some of the doors in my fortress are included in the boundaries of an assigned room, while others are not. In fact, the golden doors I spoke of earlier aren't included in the office or dining hall, but it IS being counted for the bed room...very odd indeed. Quick sketch of it:

:::Dining Hall [door 1] Office [door 2] Bedroom

:::Door 1 is not counted for either room it is connecting (unless I set it to internal), and door 2 is only being counted in the bedroom's region. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 13:18, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

::::I'm using something like the "Living Pods" [[Bedroom Design]] and the doors aren't counted in the bedrooms, either. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Could it matter what side it was installed from? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:20, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-05T12:46:53Z

Quil: /* Volcanic Death */

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Volcanic Death ==

Insofar as I can tell, the [[Losing#Volcanic Death|Volcanic Death]] section seems to be essentially fabrication as of v40d. I've never seen a volcano erupt, and doors are utterly invulnerable to being melted or set on fire when closed, if memory serves. Also for some reason I suspect that obsidian doesn't melt in lava, although I could be imagining that one. Comments?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:02, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:Closed doors don't melt, unless something changed in the last five or so seconds. I regularly use doors to hold back magma, and have a basalt door doing so in my current fort. Obsidian stones do melt in lava, however. It's possible that you've never seen a volcano erupt because you've only had a magma vent and not a volcano, because as far as I know they aren't the same thing.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Oh, that's right. Forgot about that. Though I do expect it'll be changing eventually. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:37, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Okay, yes, apparently I was hallucinating that obsidian didn't melt in lava. Having specifically hunted down volcanoes to attempt to build fortresses in on several occasions, I'm reasonably sure that eruptions haven't been implemented yet unless I'm very lucky or eruptions are very uncommon. Unless the comments that Toady intends to increase the dangerousness of volcanoes are way out of date, it's not actually been implemented yet.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 15:12, 3 January 2009 (EST)

:::Well, they do refill, maybe that's what he meant? I do still hope he'll make them erupt, though. But it's easy enough to simulate an eruption - just channel the rim. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:23, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:::I, too, relish the challenge of building magma forges in a region that occasionally fills with high-pressure magma. Either a lot of fun when you get it right, or a lot of [[fun]] when you get it wrong.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 07:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Bookkeeper

2009-01-05T12:34:56Z

Quil: /* Infinite Experience Corrected? */

My bookkeeper/carpenter won't do anything else other than update records...
I can't get him to go do carpentry, even though that's his main profession!
How do I get him out of his office? --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 18:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)
: Never mind, figured this out... just had to set the desired precision level to one below the currently reached one.--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 23:10, 7 November 2007 (EST)
== Quarters ==
(from article regarding quarters demand)
Really? I've only had an office demanded. --[[User:Savok|Savok]]

At what point does the bookkeeper require quarters (if at all)? --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 23:04, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:My newbie bookkeeper does not require quarters. --[[User:Arrendek|Arrendek]] 00:26, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:: I believe that the bookkeeper's quarters requirement only comes into play when you have a mayor. Before that, all he (or she) needs is an office. The wealth of your fortress is irrelevant. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 08:00, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Most of the time, the Mayor and the bookkeeper are the same person, thus you need an office for that person.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:52, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::::Actually not, because mayor is usually the laziest dwarf around spending all his time gaining noble (talking) skills. Bookkeeper is this lonely nerd spending all his time counting numbers. Funny thing is that all this bookkeeping builds up huge muscles and awesome speed, thus making paperwork best pre-military training ever (for single dwarf). If it was possible to have multiple bookkeepers my entire army would be drafted from clerks. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 13:52, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== Infinite Experience Corrected? ==

I'm using version 33g, it seems that at some point this bug got corrected, the bookkeeper will stop working once he reaches highest precision, and if I appoint someone else to the job that dwarf will also ignore it.

Now, all we need is some code that makes precision slowly decrease over time (personally I would make it a value equal to the amount of stocks the fortress has, and have it decrease whenever objects get destroyed / transformed / sold, and only goes up with bookkeeper work, capped again at the maximum stock level)

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:38, 5 January 2008 (EST)

:Precision *does* decrease over time, assuming you're acquiring new objects. (i.e. attaining highest precision early in a fortress's life where there are few objects will have little bearing on how accurate it will still be much later on when you've got a couple hundred pages of stocks) If you're looking for a simple degradation without changes to the actual items being counted, I don't see it happening, as it doesn't make a lot of sense on it's own. Once a count is fully established, it shouldn't be too hard to keep track of a static amount ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:57, 5 January 2008 (EST)

::I have played a game for 4 years, got all my bookkeeping finished before the end of year one, and so far precision hasn't decreased one bit, I got the bookkeeper job off, the screen shows "the bookkeeper has done all the needed work for maximum precision" or whatever. And I've been trading like crazy with the caravan all those extra expensive bloody vomit-encrusted goblin giant spider silk socks, the fortress wealth is at least 3x what it was since the bookkeeping was done. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 14:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

:::That's odd because I did similar (high, not highest, so I could track percentage to next level) and saw a gradual decrease with my precision. Did you keep a *very* close eye on the precision, and turn precision down to next lower level as soon as highest was achieved? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:32, 6 January 2008 (EST)

:::It sounds like your stocks aren't changing that much. You have a Goblin siege and get several goblin socks (not on the books). Then you sell them off... possibly for food/consumables that are processed/eaten, or for few steel items that don't cause as large a hit to your inventory?--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:37, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: In my experience, precision only needs to be changed from maximum whenever a stat has one more number added to it (and even, then, do you REALLY need to know if you created 5 or 9 total wealth on top of your 1,756,350 that is shown before updating?). Basically, though I've seen high precision constantly get updated, maximum precisions stays updated until your food starts going into the thousands or your created wealth (or some other stat) goes into the ten/hundred thousands or the millions (or whatever increases the amount of digits).

: It's been a year since this comment -- is there any doubt that it's no longer infinite? If not, I want to change the main article, which still reads "At the highest precision level, they will continue performing their task even when they have done all the work they need to do." This newbie spent a lot of head-scratching trying to figure out why he wasn't working any more! --[[User:phik|phik]] 15:14, 5 Jan 2009 (GMT+9)

::It's not infinite, but it's quite close to it, I believe. They'll stop working at 100% accuracy, but since any kind of change to the books will knock it down to 99% accurate, even a mildly busy fortress will generate a lot of bookkeeping work when it's set to max precision.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 07:34, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== Quantum bookkeeper works while paused! ==

It seems that my bookkeeper does work while the game is paused. It is the fifth of slate, first year, so (since I didn't get a throne asap) the bookkeeper has been working for a couple weeks or so. He's a High Master and gained three attributes while the game was paused. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds weird. Surely pause = no frames = nothing happens --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:12, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::That's why he's a quantum bookkeeper. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:33, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:Sounds similar to reports that liaison meetings progress while you're designating mining with the mouse. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:43, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::Aye. I've had those too. I believe they always happen on a mouse-click. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:41, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:::FWIW, I've had the liason acceleration happen while using the keyboard to designate mining spots. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 10:12, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Window

2009-01-04T12:30:01Z

Quil: /* Glass floors or skylights (ceiling windows!) */

Do windows block the flow of fluids? --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 20:16, 5 December 2007 (EST)
:Yes --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 10:58, 18 December 2007 (EST)

do windows allow light in? to fight [[Cave adaptation]] --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 22:24 24 december 2008
:Also yes. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:: No. The article says so since the 24th of July (see also [[light]]). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:27, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Do you get the materials back when you remove a window? Especially Gem windows? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:42, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
:Thirdly yes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:49, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Can dwarves "see" through the windows (i.e. see stealthly enemies on the other side)? [[User:Optimizt|Optimizt]] 20:02, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
:Again yes. At least, they get scared of things they see on the other side. I've not tested whether they can spot stealthy enemies. --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 11:09, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
::For what it's worth, spotting stealthed enemies requires that you be adjacent to them, so that particular question would be moot, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)

I'm assuming there's no bonus for a good view and that the only value a window adds is its own intrinsic value? I built a room out of windows and filled it with water, making a giant aquarium, but this seems to have been more for my benefit than the dwarves. [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]] 03:53, 4 January 2009 (EST)

== Glass floors or skylights (ceiling windows!) ==

We all know that windows don't let light in and so won't prevent cave adaptation, but I just learned that glass floors WILL let light in to the next Z level down, if you build it over an open space. This proves that it's always noon in DF land. This also allows you to grow light-needing crops underground without sacrificing security or usable ground-space. [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]] 03:46, 4 January 2009 (EST)
:Very astute, but as one can see under [[tile attributes]], as it is any kind of constructed floor will allow light to pass through (litle holes in them?). Presumably at some point in the future it'll be changed so that you'll need glass to make your greenhouse roof. As it is, it's merely a matter of personal preference.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 07:30, 4 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-03T22:19:32Z

Quil: /* Volcanic Death */ Doh, formatting failure

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Volcanic Death ==

Insofar as I can tell, the [[Losing#Volcanic Death|Volcanic Death]] section seems to be essentially fabrication as of v40d. I've never seen a volcano erupt, and doors are utterly invulnerable to being melted or set on fire when closed, if memory serves. Also for some reason I suspect that obsidian doesn't melt in lava, although I could be imagining that one. Comments?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:02, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:Closed doors don't melt, unless something changed in the last five or so seconds. I regularly use doors to hold back magma, and have a basalt door doing so in my current fort. Obsidian stones do melt in lava, however. It's possible that you've never seen a volcano erupt because you've only had a magma vent and not a volcano, because as far as I know they aren't the same thing.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Oh, that's right. Forgot about that. Though I do expect it'll be changing eventually. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:37, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Okay, yes, apparently I was hallucinating that obsidian didn't melt in lava. Having specifically hunted down volcanoes to attempt to build fortresses in on several occasions, I'm reasonably sure that eruptions haven't been implemented yet unless I'm very lucky or eruptions are very uncommon. Unless the comments that Toady intends to increase the dangerousness of volcanoes are way out of date, it's not actually been implemented yet.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 15:12, 3 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-03T20:12:36Z

Quil: /* Volcanic Death */

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Volcanic Death ==

Insofar as I can tell, the [[Losing#Volcanic Death|Volcanic Death]] section seems to be essentially fabrication as of v40d. I've never seen a volcano erupt, and doors are utterly invulnerable to being melted or set on fire when closed, if memory serves. Also for some reason I suspect that obsidian doesn't melt in lava, although I could be imagining that one. Comments?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:02, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:Closed doors don't melt, unless something changed in the last five or so seconds. I regularly use doors to hold back magma, and have a basalt door doing so in my current fort. Obsidian stones do melt in lava, however. It's possible that you've never seen a volcano erupt because you've only had a magma vent and not a volcano, because as far as I know they aren't the same thing.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Oh, that's right. Forgot about that. Though I do expect it'll be changing eventually. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:37, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Okay, yes, apparently I was hallucinating that obsidian didn't melt in lava. Having specifically hunted down volcanoes to attempt to build fortresses in on several occasions, I'm reasonably sure that eruptions haven't been implemented yet unless I'm very lucky or eruptions are very uncommon. Unless the comments that Toady intends to increase the dangerousness of volcanoes are way out of date, it's not actually been implemented yet.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 15:12, 3 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-02T23:02:00Z

Quil: Volcanic Death

40d Talk:Currency

2008-12-18T19:01:03Z

Quil: /* Why no coins */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/|bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Currency

2008-12-18T03:27:09Z

Quil: /* Other coins */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T23:51:14Z

Quil: /* unknown civilizations */

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, yes (or, at least, how many settlements, those of the selected civ show up in blue), no. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
:When a settlement of another race is captured, it doesn't change the settlement type on the map even though it does note the race change. This can produce 'Dark Dwarven Fortresses' or even 'Forest Retreats'. The conquering civilization must be able to survive in the terrain type being captured, so you won't see elves leaving the forests or humans heading into mountain ranges. However, since forests can be converted into grasslands, humans seem to enjoy conquering elves and getting them to become pikemasters, wear chainmail, and assume leadership of their towns.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 02:36, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Humans actually do have [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED], so arguably it's intended to be possible for them to have mountain halls. I have not seen this, though (note that any world where dwarves tend to get conquered in worldgen will tend to get rejected, so we'll generally only be seeing worlds where it doesn't happen for whatever reason)

I've got contact with two different human civilizations. I've also noticed two goblin ambush parties that were led by a human (with lots of bone accessories like rings and bracelets). Has Toady made it so more civilizations can raid you? What this game really needs as part of the war arc is a decent diplomacy interface so you can make peace with various civs and get them to send trade caravans (or add a trade arc where you can send your own!). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:27, 24 November 2008 (EST)
:Children goblins kidnap will join goblin forces for ambushes and sieges when they grow up. Since they are bigger and tougher then goblins, they will likely end-up being squad leaders. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 24 November 2008 (EST)
::That doesn't explain why I have contact with a second human civilization - unless said humans still retain their civilization membership and thus I count as having contacted it? Weird... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:42, 24 November 2008 (EST)

==unknown civilizations==
I just looked at the entry for one of my hammerdwarf champions. She's apparently the enemy of three civilizations, one of which is the local goblin civ. and the other two, the "Nightmares of Crystal" and the "Doctrines of Guarding", I've never heard of before. Any idea who these guys are and why they don't show up on my civilizations menu?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 03:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:It seems likely that you only get civs in your menu that that have actually made an appearance in your local area. So they exist somewhere in the world (legends mode might tell you, depending on how you've set it) but they've not attacked you or otherwise arrived in your fortress.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::So my hammerdwarf, having heard of these civilizations, just decided on her own "I hate those guys."?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 17:10, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::Not per se. It seems that civs communicate who they like and dislike to other civs somehow, and becoming an enemy of one can provoke its friends to become your enemy. For example, I attacked a goblin civ in adventurer mode, and a study of my post-mortem chronicles in legends mode showed that virtually every goblin civ in the world became my enemy at that same time. Not sure about the precise mechanics, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:59, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The Fortress is at war with Eurasia. The Fortress has always been at war with Eurasia. Anyone saying otherwise is DoublePlusUnGood -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::::Looking at my whole military, and comparing their kill records, it seems only the ones with long lists of goblin kills are enemies of any of them, but about half of those are enemies of all three. does this have any game effect? If I were to somehow make peace with one of these civs, would these dwarfs get bad thoughts on seeing them in my fort?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 18:43, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::::From my experiences in adventurer mode, they would psychotically chase after them and murder them all, assuming they remained hostile. It seems, however, that if it says X is an enemy of Y, it's less X hating Y and more Y hating X. So if you made peace with them, your soldiers would lose their "enemy of X" entries. This is all conjecture on my part from observation though, so it's really a question that wants posing to Toady.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:51, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Offerings to and exports from hostile nations ==

On a whim I checked what I'd imported from the local goblins and kobolds, and found these amusing tidbits:

<blockquote>
Chrinkis, "Chrinkis", Kobold

 Exports to Fomireola [my fortress]: Petty Annoyance
 Offerings from Fomireola: Death
 
 Ustöspsong, "The Incidental Scourge", Goblin

 Exports to Fomireola: Terror
 Offerings from Fomireola: Vengeance
</blockquote>

I'm curious... are the exports and offerings the same from all kobold and goblin civs, or does it vary somehow? You can check these stats by going to the View Civilizations menu, selecting a civ, and pressing tab.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've seen the same remarks from Goblin and Kobold civs on multiple occasion. Does anything special show up for hostile elves or humans? --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::Good question. Time to annoy some <s>hippies</s> Elves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 11:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)