Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

DF2014 Talk:Need

2018-03-02T19:13:53Z

Pyrite:

== !!Research!! ==
Research needs to be done into need fulfillment. As otherwise, one might be clueless on the matter of crafting, practicing an art, or being with family. (If even possible.) [[Special:Contributions/73.154.165.60|73.154.165.60]] 03:11, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

== Introspection ==
From the bugtracker:

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9292

>Reading, writing and prayer satisfy [INTROSPECTION] right now [...]

[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 22:17, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

== Abstract Thinking ==

Satisfied by pondering in a library.

== Crafting ==

(r) = reaction in raws

Satisfied by cooking, gem cutting, dyeing, constructing animal trap, weaving thread into cloth, assembling instrument from parts, making rock blocks, making wooden blocks, making clay bricks (r), making steel (r), milling seeds/nuts to paste.

Unsatisfied by plant collecting, sowing seeds, smoothing, engraving, web collection, smelting ores, the 'Mill plants' job.

Note -- smelting an ore does not satisfy, but making steel does. Any reaction in the raws seems to count, even if it's missing reagents, products, or an associated skill.

== See great beast ==

The comes from a combination of high Curiosity and Nature. Still uncertain what qualifies as 'great beast', may be any LARGE_ROAMING.
[[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] ([[User talk:Uzu Bash|talk]]) 17:43, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

== Away from family ==

maybe this was recently implemented my dwarves are distracted about being away from friends and family.
it would be very nice if there were links here to how to go about fixing these traits.
[[Special:Contributions/77.127.4.53|77.127.4.53]] 05:29, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

== Fort mode ==

Do we have a list for fulfilling needs in fort mode? According to a recent FotF, wandering is tied to hunt/gather/fish jobs. [[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 02:38, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

== Creatures page ==

Is there any reason for this page to be in the [[:Category:DF2014:Creatures|Creatures category]]? [[User:The Mastrod|The Mastrod]] ([[User talk:The Mastrod|talk]]) 03:51, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

== What are the penalties ==

Is there a page that talks about the actual effects of being distracted? If so, why is it not linked here? I would add a section on it but I came here to find out. [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] ([[User talk:Pyrite|talk]]) 19:13, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

DF2014 Talk:Need

2018-03-02T19:13:33Z

Pyrite: Added question about effects of being distracted.

40d Talk:Noble

2009-01-07T20:49:50Z

Pyrite: /* Pretentious Arrangements */

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Sorting nobles ==
I find it rather silly to have the Expedition leader in the ''Appointed'' section just to be immediately told (s)he can not be appointed. I'm too newbie in terms of nobles to draft sections that make sense, but I feel this needs changing.[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:23, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-01-07T20:49:35Z

Pyrite: /* Pretentious Arrangements */

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Sorting nobles ==
I find it rather silly to have the Expedition leader in the ''Appointed'' section just to be immediately told (s)he can not be appointed. I'm too newbie in terms of nobles to draft sections that make sense, but I feel this needs changing.[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:23, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T20:47:23Z

Pyrite: /* No More Elf References? */

==No More Elf References?==

I'm not going to start a revert war, but personally I thought the recently-removed parts of the article comparing the merits of wooden and silver weapons to be amusing and entirely in keeping with the style of this wiki. Impromptu vote, anyone? I vote '''keep''', myself.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:54, 6 January 2009 (EST)
:I agree. Also, it helped further the distinction between wooden and silver weapons, so that a person can easily understand that, for instance, they won't find a wooden hammer.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 22:35, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::'''Keep''', and if I actually gave a crap, I'd have reverted it myself. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:01, 7 January 2009 (EST)

:::'''Keep''', because it was funny, and this wiki doesn't mind funny. I mean, we have D for Dwarf for a reason, yes? --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 01:20, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::'''Keep''', I like flavorful D is for Dwarf entries. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:33, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I don't know, I think there's a difference between "dwarven humour" and "distracting and irrelevant information". I know this "isn't Wikipedia" and that humour is fine, but I prefer *well written* humour, and honestly I'm so sick of hearing people bitch about the elves that it's no longer even remotely funny. Really it's not (for me) so much the humour of it, but its placement. I could see it on the "wood" page, or on the "elves" page (though I'd rather not), but it doesn't have anything to do with silver. [[User:Thestripedone|Thestripedone]] 14:40, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:It's about a use for silver (sparring weapons) and comparing silver with a material that is also affective for that use. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:47, 7 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T03:35:39Z

Pyrite: /* No More Elf References? */

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T03:35:24Z

Pyrite: /* No More Elf References? */

40d Talk:Silver

2009-01-07T03:35:12Z

Pyrite: /* No More Elf References? */

40d Talk:King

2009-01-06T20:58:14Z

Pyrite:

Got the king tonight. Unsure of the trigger; had missed two prior dwarf caravans due to sieges. Had population 37 and fortress value about 1.3 million when he arrived. His fellow immigrants raised the population to 63 immediately afterward. My first wiki page, let me know what I did wrong :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:29, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:I had him arrive under similar conditions recently: Population of around 40, high overall fortress value(~6 million) and three past sieges.[[User:Killtheimpostor!|Killtheimpostor!]] 19:53, 15 November 2007 (EST)
::Have either of you reached adamantine? -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 20:33, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:::I had only my 7 dwarves when i reached adamantine by sheer dumb luck, and then the king arrived with 22 immigrants. Adamantine has to have something to do with it. [[User:abattur|abattur]]
:::There was some discussion elsewhere, and apparently the 'King arrives dressed as a peasant' in previous versions meant you'd found adamantine but not met other criteria of having the king arrive. And yes, I had found adamantine. So once we figure out the criteria for a non-adamantine visit, we should redo and expand the page. And never demean the value of pure dumb luck! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:23, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I never understood what the dressed as a peasent thing refers to. Is he not the king at first? Or does he simply arrive with poor clothing and then immediately get the best clothing from the fort? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 11:34, 16 November 2007 (EST)

:maybe he is trying to sneak into the fortress? --[[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 13:53, 16 November 2007 (EST)

::Maybe he's embarrassed to move to a fort that doesn't meet royal standards (as perceived by The People(TM)), but he knows it'll soon be filthy rich with all that adamantine? -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 14:46, 16 November 2007 (EST)

::: He's probably just coming when you hit adamantine because he wants to get his grubby little paws on it.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm at 1.5M Created Wealth, 337k imported, 116k exported, 165 population, and 23,000 silver coins. The baroness has turned into the duchess, and I have a new noble: "The Incoming King". When I get details of him, it mentions how much archecture I have vs needed (Desired 10k, Current: 101k), Road Value (7.5k vs 280), and Offerings (5000 vs 0). Presumably the Offerings are to the Dwarven caravan. Road value seems easy to get up, each glass square is worth 40 bucks. [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 21:50, 18 November 2007 (EST)

I'm at 317K created wealth, 283k imported, 61k exported, 146 population, no coins. We recently turned into a duchy and now have "The Incoming King" as well. He wants 15k architecture (we have 108k), 5k road (we have 1182), and 5k offerings (We have 0). Breakdown of created wealth: 9.6k weapons, 0 armor and garb, 45k furniture, 130k other objects, 111k architecture, 19k displayed, 9.9k held/worn. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:51, 20 November 2007 (EST)

What happens when you get the king and abandon your fort? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 03:35, 22 November 2007 (EST)
: Your fort shows up as the "Mountainhome" for the civ when you find it in adventure mode. When asking people of that civ about the capital, they say "There is no capital." --[[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Just to confirm how this works: Once you get promoted to a Duchy, you must meet the three requirements given by the Incoming King noble. Road value, Architecture value and Offerings (to dwarven caravans). The offering takes a while to get to the king, but once the requirements are met, you should get a king in the next wave of immigrants. --[[User:Starfisher|Starfisher]] 18:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)

So if, uh, totally hypothetically, my King went Stark Raving Mad due to his room not being up to snuff and died naked and thirsty, will I ever get another King? [[User:Viper1969|Viper1969]] 14:42, 17 January 2008 (EST)

==Accompaning Nobles ==
Who arrives with the king other than the [[Advisor]]?
Who oth
: I did not get an advisor with my Queen. Although she came with the discovery of adamantine. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 08:17, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:: A consort, like most nobles... about four Royal guards, if I remember properly... and an assortment of peasants. Only peasants. I'm assuming they're all spouses of the guards/king/advisor/consort, but I'm too lazy to really look into that. [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 03:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

==Addy King==
(Moved from article page --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:56, 31 January 2008 (EST))
 
From my experience so far, he's not made a single demand what so ever (other than his room, etc). Admittedly it hasn't been that long (4th year of the fort, King was 1st immigrant), but I've had time to mine every tile of addy on the map that's safe to dig (and then a couple). Bonus? Bug? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] ([[User talk:Draco18s|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Draco18s|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== Do I want this guy? ==

im ALMOST at the requirements to get the king. But the nobles i have are already anoying enough, why do i want this king? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]]

:erg. *shudders at the grammar*
:AFAIK, the king serves no purpose other than to challenge you. So, no. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:39, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Every times I get a king (adamantine king actually), the dwarven liaison won't come any longer.
:Quite anoying on fortresses relying on an external source of flux. --[[User:Yag|Yag]]

== King Vs Population Cap ==
I'm at my population cap (actually just over due to births). I've meet all the requirements for the Incoming King. Will he still come? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 02:40, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:He came with a few regular immigrants, several guards and a consort pushing my population past 210. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 07:26, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

== No King (or Queen rather) ==

I had been waiting for a King for a long time already, but I had finally filled all the requirements. So at last I get an announcment of his (well her) arrival. There's lot's of immigrants but the Queen is nowhere to be seen! Is this a bug of some sort or does she arrive seperately from the other immigrants? My population is 185 which is under the cap. I'm using version 28_181_39e.

I also had a wrestler stuck to the spot where he entered the map to. Could this affect somehow?

Oh there she is. But she doesn't move, and appears as Ruler/Queen and I can't interract with her. She appears like Town Liaisons for example. She appears as Friendly in the U(nit)-screen.

== How long does it take for this guy to get here? ==

I was told that the king was incoming about 2-3 years ago in game time. It took me a long time to get enough roads to be built, but about a year or so ago, I finished. The field for the incoming king says all of the qualifications are in. And... it's been a year. There has been an immigration and a "no one dared brave your fort" immigration message, but no king. How long does he wait to show up after that initial message? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 10:29, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
: I still don't know how long it takes, but he has arrived. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:00, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

==Update to 40d==
I got the adamantine king in my current game. He came with no consort but doesn't appear to have one at all in the relationship screen, so no information there. Have not seen an advisor and do not know if one will come later when I meet the normal requirements or whatnot.

He has issued no mandates and made no demands except for his standard room/furnishing requirements.

I should note it also took him 3 years to arrive from when I first struck adamantine, but I don't know if that's because reporting back to the civilization takes longer when your civ isn't sending you a liaison in the first place.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:24, 10 December 2008 (EST)

==Turning off the King==
Is there a simple way to disable the arrival of the king? While I like my current fortress, I don't see a place with no iron, no magma, and no tower-caps becoming The Mountainhome. I see us as an outpost whose primary purpose is to fight goblins and produce marble things.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:Provided you don't have adamantine, all you have to do is not build roads worth a total of 5000☼ and the "Incoming King" will never income.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:20, 13 December 2008 (EST)

==Relationships and deities.==
Got the Queen tonight for a different fortress than the one above (decided I needed magma, settled in the side of a volcano, and managed to find adamantine.)I was looking over her relationships and noticed she has ten children, and also has her grandparents, aunts and uncles, and a dozen cousins. I was also interested to note she worships two deities, something I've never seen in any other dwarf.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 04:20, 3 January 2009 (EST)

==Justice==
My Queen, mentioned above, went on a tantrum due to the mayor having an artefact cabinet raising her room to "Royal". This led to her throwing boulders, breaking a stone table, and starting a fistfight. The justice system has ignored this, and it doesn't look like the queen will be jailed for it.

40d Talk:Noble

2009-01-06T18:58:28Z

Pyrite:

40d Talk:King

2009-01-03T09:20:32Z

Pyrite:

40d Talk:Currency

2008-12-19T03:35:32Z

Pyrite: /* Why no coins */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/ bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

::Honestly, the whole economy is so off-kilter right now I'm considering simply turning it off until it sees a major overhaul. I think I'll mess with it again when it's further along in development, as it seems a kind of placeholder right now. I'm sure Toady One can find some real, live economists on these boards to consult with in order to make the whole thing work.

40d Talk:Hammerer

2008-12-18T12:45:29Z

Pyrite: /* Avoiding a Hammering */

I saw it mentioned somewhere - on either the bay12 forums or elsewhere on this wiki - that if you strip a Hammerer of his hammer (mark it for dumping), he'll not pick up another one, and will 'hammer' people unarmed instead. Certainly this seems to be working for me so far; out of two prescribed 'hammerings' I've had one Carpenter come out with a bruised lower spine, and a Swordsdwarf come out unscathed (likely thanks to his chainmail). Not yet any skill in wrestling for the Hammerer either (not even dabbling). -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:56, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

:Nice find, why not add that to the article?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:: You can prevent hammerer-related deaths entirely by trapping the hammerer in a cage trap. You will need to arrange some way, such as sleep or giant cave spider, for the hammerer to become unconscious and fall down on a cage trap tile. -- [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 17:18, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:I also remember seeing horror stories from the 2D version where, if the Hammerer lost both his arms, he would BITE people as punishment. And tear their heads off with his jaws, walking around with dwarf chunks in his mouth. A hammerer with no arms is way more dangerous than you might think; if he loses his arms, make sure he loses his head too! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:19, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::It seems unlikely. A hammerer who lost both his arms would also be losing consciousness constantly.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:46, 27 November 2008 (EST)

==Arrives with Baron==
Can anyone verify this?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've had this happen recently; that is, the hammerer and baron arriving together. I've only had a baron arrive once, however, so this is hardly conclusive. Also this baron promptly ruined the fort with his 'economy' and 'coin' and other seditious ideas, but that's beside the point.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Finished off a goblin invader ==

Just fended off my second invasion of goblins first with trolls.(I love cage traps)
He killed off a goblin with heavy injuries from the stone traps bare-handed as I dumped his hammer. I'd like to give him a hammer (a weak one) for effort :) My point is that he'll help fighting.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 18:18, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

==Avoiding a Hammering==
This page would seem like a good place to put advice on how to avoid getting your dwarves hammered (and not in the good way.) Does putting the full amount of guards and cages prevent dwarves violating work orders being sentenced to hammerings?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:45, 18 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Hammerer

2008-12-18T12:37:30Z

Pyrite:

User:Pyrite

2008-12-18T01:19:22Z

Pyrite:

Hey, I just got started, on my first fort that survived it's first winter. Things were looking up at Lancersearched, but due to unforseen difficulties, we lost more dwarves than we've been used to from these sieges. The count has died, and I only hope that his crystal glass coffin makes him as happy in death as it did in life.

It's been a few years and a siege since then. This one went better, though almost dissapointingly so, as my marksdwarves broke the morale of the two squads who made it to my fortress, and they ran before my melee champions could chase more than a couple down. Still, more iron for the smelters.

40d Talk:Currency

2008-12-18T01:11:18Z

Pyrite:

40d Talk:Currency

2008-12-18T01:08:00Z

Pyrite: /* Other coins */

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T23:43:09Z

Pyrite: /* unknown civilizations */

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, yes (or, at least, how many settlements, those of the selected civ show up in blue), no. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
:When a settlement of another race is captured, it doesn't change the settlement type on the map even though it does note the race change. This can produce 'Dark Dwarven Fortresses' or even 'Forest Retreats'. The conquering civilization must be able to survive in the terrain type being captured, so you won't see elves leaving the forests or humans heading into mountain ranges. However, since forests can be converted into grasslands, humans seem to enjoy conquering elves and getting them to become pikemasters, wear chainmail, and assume leadership of their towns.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 02:36, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Humans actually do have [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED], so arguably it's intended to be possible for them to have mountain halls. I have not seen this, though (note that any world where dwarves tend to get conquered in worldgen will tend to get rejected, so we'll generally only be seeing worlds where it doesn't happen for whatever reason)

I've got contact with two different human civilizations. I've also noticed two goblin ambush parties that were led by a human (with lots of bone accessories like rings and bracelets). Has Toady made it so more civilizations can raid you? What this game really needs as part of the war arc is a decent diplomacy interface so you can make peace with various civs and get them to send trade caravans (or add a trade arc where you can send your own!). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:27, 24 November 2008 (EST)
:Children goblins kidnap will join goblin forces for ambushes and sieges when they grow up. Since they are bigger and tougher then goblins, they will likely end-up being squad leaders. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 24 November 2008 (EST)
::That doesn't explain why I have contact with a second human civilization - unless said humans still retain their civilization membership and thus I count as having contacted it? Weird... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:42, 24 November 2008 (EST)

==unknown civilizations==
I just looked at the entry for one of my hammerdwarf champions. She's apparently the enemy of three civilizations, one of which is the local goblin civ. and the other two, the "Nightmares of Crystal" and the "Doctrines of Guarding", I've never heard of before. Any idea who these guys are and why they don't show up on my civilizations menu?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 03:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:It seems likely that you only get civs in your menu that that have actually made an appearance in your local area. So they exist somewhere in the world (legends mode might tell you, depending on how you've set it) but they've not attacked you or otherwise arrived in your fortress.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::So my hammerdwarf, having heard of these civilizations, just decided on her own "I hate those guys."?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 17:10, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::Not per se. It seems that civs communicate who they like and dislike to other civs somehow, and becoming an enemy of one can provoke its friends to become your enemy. For example, I attacked a goblin civ in adventurer mode, and a study of my post-mortem chronicles in legends mode showed that virtually every goblin civ in the world became my enemy at that same time. Not sure about the precise mechanics, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:59, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The Fortress is at war with Eurasia. The Fortress has always been at war with Eurasia. Anyone saying otherwise is DoublePlusUnGood -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::::Looking at my whole military, and comparing their kill records, it seems only the ones with long lists of goblin kills are enemies of any of them, but about half of those are enemies of all three. does this have any game effect? If I were to somehow make peace with one of these civs, would these dwarfs get bad thoughts on seeing them in my fort?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 18:43, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Offerings to and exports from hostile nations ==

On a whim I checked what I'd imported from the local goblins and kobolds, and found these amusing tidbits:

<blockquote>
Chrinkis, "Chrinkis", Kobold

 Exports to Fomireola [my fortress]: Petty Annoyance
 Offerings from Fomireola: Death
 
 Ustöspsong, "The Incidental Scourge", Goblin

 Exports to Fomireola: Terror
 Offerings from Fomireola: Vengeance
</blockquote>

I'm curious... are the exports and offerings the same from all kobold and goblin civs, or does it vary somehow? You can check these stats by going to the View Civilizations menu, selecting a civ, and pressing tab.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've seen the same remarks from Goblin and Kobold civs on multiple occasion. Does anything special show up for hostile elves or humans? --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::Good question. Time to annoy some <s>hippies</s> Elves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 11:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T22:10:56Z

Pyrite: /* unknown civilizations */

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, yes (or, at least, how many settlements, those of the selected civ show up in blue), no. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
:When a settlement of another race is captured, it doesn't change the settlement type on the map even though it does note the race change. This can produce 'Dark Dwarven Fortresses' or even 'Forest Retreats'. The conquering civilization must be able to survive in the terrain type being captured, so you won't see elves leaving the forests or humans heading into mountain ranges. However, since forests can be converted into grasslands, humans seem to enjoy conquering elves and getting them to become pikemasters, wear chainmail, and assume leadership of their towns.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 02:36, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Humans actually do have [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED], so arguably it's intended to be possible for them to have mountain halls. I have not seen this, though (note that any world where dwarves tend to get conquered in worldgen will tend to get rejected, so we'll generally only be seeing worlds where it doesn't happen for whatever reason)

I've got contact with two different human civilizations. I've also noticed two goblin ambush parties that were led by a human (with lots of bone accessories like rings and bracelets). Has Toady made it so more civilizations can raid you? What this game really needs as part of the war arc is a decent diplomacy interface so you can make peace with various civs and get them to send trade caravans (or add a trade arc where you can send your own!). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:27, 24 November 2008 (EST)
:Children goblins kidnap will join goblin forces for ambushes and sieges when they grow up. Since they are bigger and tougher then goblins, they will likely end-up being squad leaders. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 24 November 2008 (EST)
::That doesn't explain why I have contact with a second human civilization - unless said humans still retain their civilization membership and thus I count as having contacted it? Weird... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:42, 24 November 2008 (EST)

==unknown civilizations==
I just looked at the entry for one of my hammerdwarf champions. She's apparently the enemy of three civilizations, one of which is the local goblin civ. and the other two, the "Nightmares of Crystal" and the "Doctrines of Guarding", I've never heard of before. Any idea who these guys are and why they don't show up on my civilizations menu?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 03:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:It seems likely that you only get civs in your menu that that have actually made an appearance in your local area. So they exist somewhere in the world (legends mode might tell you, depending on how you've set it) but they've not attacked you or otherwise arrived in your fortress.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::So my hammerdwarf, having heard of these civilizations, just decided on her own "I hate those guys."?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 17:10, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Offerings to and exports from hostile nations ==

On a whim I checked what I'd imported from the local goblins and kobolds, and found these amusing tidbits:

<blockquote>
Chrinkis, "Chrinkis", Kobold

 Exports to Fomireola [my fortress]: Petty Annoyance
 Offerings from Fomireola: Death
 
 Ustöspsong, "The Incidental Scourge", Goblin

 Exports to Fomireola: Terror
 Offerings from Fomireola: Vengeance
</blockquote>

I'm curious... are the exports and offerings the same from all kobold and goblin civs, or does it vary somehow? You can check these stats by going to the View Civilizations menu, selecting a civ, and pressing tab.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've seen the same remarks from Goblin and Kobold civs on multiple occasion. Does anything special show up for hostile elves or humans? --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::Good question. Time to annoy some <s>hippies</s> Elves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 11:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T09:03:56Z

Pyrite: /* unknown civilizations */

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T08:20:53Z

Pyrite:

40d Talk:Bismuth

2008-12-17T04:53:09Z

Pyrite: /* Mandates */

== Mandates ==

Bismuth items (not bismuth bronze, but bismuth itself) can be mandated. Obviously this mandate can only be fulfilled by smelting bismuthinite. If you don't have a granite layer and one of your nobles likes bismuth then you'd better request bismuthinite stones (not blocks) from the liaison.--[[User:Another|Another]] 17:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

:I still like the execution bridge. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:01, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

::My tax collector just mandated three bismuth items. My first thought: It's winter and I don't have any bismuth, so getting any would be impossible. My second thought: Making items out of bismuth is impossible anyway. I don't want to kill the tax collector, but I don't have many metalworkers and I don't know if they could survive a hammering.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 18:38, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:::Execute the tax collector. They'll just send another one, and then you won't have failed to complete a mandate. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::::He seems to have rethought his mandate, and dropped it without anyone having to see the hammerer. Maybe he noticed I was staring at the door to his room... First time I've seen a production mandate go away without being fulfilled or leading to consequences.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 23:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Bismuth

2008-12-16T23:38:43Z

Pyrite: /* Mandates */

40d Talk:Bismuth

2008-12-16T23:38:27Z

Pyrite: /* Mandates */

40d Talk:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2008-12-16T11:44:05Z

Pyrite: /* Dwarves don't always stay inside. */

== New options in v0.28.181.40a ==

The new options in v0.28.181.40a allow for objects to be forbidden automatically. Ive edited the article to match. --[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 11:09, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Awesome sauce. Nice when one of [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5939.0 your own suggestions] is acted upon. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:56, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves don't always stay inside. ==
added something I noticed to "all dwarves stay inside." this seemed to be the best place to put it.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 04:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:I'd actually noted that before, but not on this page. Its not so much that the item they want is outside, its that 'Dwarves Stay Inside' doesn't stop dwarves from *pathing* outside, it merely causes dwarves to cancel whatever they're doing if/when they find themselves outside. They'll never actually complete any such job, merely keep canceling, returning inside, and immediately repathing through the outdoors.
:This also isn't the only way in which the pathing behavior is different than the permissions behavior. For example, doors which are tightly closed (no pet use) don't stop pets from pathing through them, which is why you get pet pile-ups at such doors.
:Ultimately this is a programming flaw which will hopefully be rectified at some point.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:32, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:I changed the wording to be more clear, and I do think this is a good place for this.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 06:44, 16 December 2008 (EST)

40d:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2008-12-16T11:42:01Z

Pyrite: /* "All dwarves stay inside" */

After the bodies start falling, and sometimes even before, citizens will run like madmen right into the middle of a [[combat]] situation. We'd like to think of it as natural selection, but all dwarves are potentially that stupid.

==Causes==
===Corpse looting===
The most common cause is the death of a friend or enemy. A dying creature who carries objects drops those objects on death, and your dwarves just can't wait to start looting the corpses. Even the presence of hostiles will only deter them if they get close enough to be spooked, and then there's often no telling which direction they'll run - it's usually the wrong one. This behavior only occurs after someone dies. To prevent this behavior, as soon as bodies are generated immediately forbid ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|f}}) all objects they were carrying and their corpse - including all parts thereof. Dwarves will cancel jobs to retrieve forbidden items.

As of v0.28.181.40a, an option is available to automatically forbid objects and corpses killed on the map. You can access the options via the following key combo: {{K|o}} - {{K|F}}

===Outside tasks===
The second behavior which leads to civilian dwarves in avoidable combat situations is dwarves who try to take jobs which take them outside. This is really a more general version of the previous (as they are trying to job 'take item to depot' for dropped items), but can be generated by any object or stockpile that's sitting outside. This is much harder to deal with unless you've kept your stockpiles inside and kept track of every object outside, because finding them to forbid them can be difficult, especially on larger maps or maps with many outdoor z-levels. Finally, not all outdoor jobs are going to be item collecting jobs. Woodcutters will want to chop designated trees (deselect them to stop this or turn off the labor), fisherdwarfs are going to want to go fishing (turn off the fishing labor), trappers will want to trap and hunters will want to hunt (turn off these labors). You'll want to turn off gathering refuse from outside as well using the [[standing orders]] menu: ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}).

===Rescue missions===
One last behavior which can (rarely) bring a civilian into combat is an attempt to rescue a wounded dwarf. Unfortunately you can't 'forbid' a living dwarf, but you can disable the "Health Care" job for the dwarf attempting the rescue. You may need to draft then undraft him to reset his health care job.

==Solutions==
==="All dwarves stay inside"===
You can order all your dwarves, or just non-soldier dwarves, to stay inside by using the standing orders menu: {{k|o}} - {{k|i}}. However this is often an ineffective solution because the prohibition only kicks in when a dwarf actually steps outside. Thus, if combat (or other enemy deterrence systems) are at or near your entrance, telling dwarves to stay inside will not help - they will still try to take these jobs, walk outside (right into a combat situation), and then realize they aren't supposed to be there, cancel the job, walk back inside, and try to take the same job again.

Setting only soldiers to go outside is not a cure-all, since soldiers can still generate Pickup Equipment jobs and run one by one into a hail of goblin crossbow fire.

Also, dwarves will go outside even under this order if there is something inside they want that can only be reached by a path that takes them outside, for instance running across a wall providing a beautiful target to aforementioned goblin crossbows.

===Remove distractions===
As described above, as soon as a siege or ambush occurs, turn off the labors of dwarves who have outdoor tasks (woodcutting, fishing, trapping and hunting), un-designate ({{k|d}} - {{k|x}}) trees or shrubs that were set to be cut or gathered, and forbid ({{k|d}}} - {{{k|f}}) anything outdoors that your dwarves might want to fetch (such as freshly-cut logs). Continue doing this as the combat progresses and bodies and items start dropping. Turning off refuse hauling, as described above ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}), may help. So can telling dwarves not to collect bodies: {{k|o}} - {{k|g}} if you use stockpiles for dead dwarves (which [[coffin|you shouldn't]]).

===Batten down the hatches===
An easier solution to manage is locking all your dwarves inside, for instance by raising drawbridges. This tends to break invader AIs however, as they will just mill about outside (not walking forward into your traps) because they can't find a path to a dwarf. It also makes it more difficult to get military out to the invaders because when you open the doors your dwarves will start taking outdoor jobs again.

===Martial law===
One last solution is to draft all your civilian dwarves and station them somewhere deep within your fortress. It will generate a lot of unhappy thoughts, and kill your productivity for the duration of the siege, but it will stop them from being stupid. Watch out for newly-recruited dwarves who are set to equip armour or weapons, however: they may attempt to run out into the fray to equip themselves if 'Soldiers can go outside' is selected.

===Forward barracks===
Create your barracks, a food stockpile, weapons and armour stockpiles, small meeting hall, etc. near the entrance of your fort for your military dwarves to use. Have the rest of your fort separated by lockable doors. When fighting occurs, lock all non-military dwarves in the back of the fort where they can continue working undisturbed. Forcing all incoming traffic to move through your barracks has the added benefit of making it likely that any sneaky [[thief]] will be discovered in the middle of your sparring ground -- with predictably gruesome results for the thief.

The forward barracks concept can be extended by placing the barracks so far forward that they are on the surface, outside the fortress proper, forming a castle of sorts. This requires encircling walls or channels on the surface to force enemies into a designated approach path and block others, so there is more work required of the player. One benefit is that the "soldiers can go outside" order will keep civilians out of the castle, and thus hopefully out of harm's way; also this will consume large amounts of those stones that clutter up the fortress.

==Conclusion==
The existence of this problem is a strong argument for doing as much as you can to give your dwarves little reason to go outside. The fewer reasons your dwarves have for going outside, the fewer dwarves you will lose to crazy dwarves wandering into the line of fire. It has the side benefit of greatly reducing your casualties from ambushes. Strategies like building a [[trade depot]] indoors, behind a retractable drawbridge, will help keep your dwarves out of danger.

Providing indoor pastimes (like a [[sculpture garden]], [[zoo]], [[meeting hall]], or a meeting area [[zone]]) will make dwarves spend their break time in the fortress rather than outside. This will prevent dwarves from hanging around outside, which will lessen the likelihood that they will get caught outside when siegers arrive. Creative use of water resources to create an [[underground forest]] can limit danger to woodcutters. Hunters, haulers and other dwarves who have business outside will still be at risk.

{{Military FAQ}}

40d Talk:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2008-12-16T09:24:57Z

Pyrite: /* New options in v0.28.181.40a */

40d:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2008-12-16T09:23:47Z

Pyrite: /* "All dwarves stay inside" */

After the bodies start falling, and sometimes even before, citizens will run like madmen right into the middle of a [[combat]] situation. We'd like to think of it as natural selection, but all dwarves are potentially that stupid.

==Causes==
===Corpse looting===
The most common cause is the death of a friend or enemy. A dying creature who carries objects drops those objects on death, and your dwarves just can't wait to start looting the corpses. Even the presence of hostiles will only deter them if they get close enough to be spooked, and then there's often no telling which direction they'll run - it's usually the wrong one. This behavior only occurs after someone dies. To prevent this behavior, as soon as bodies are generated immediately forbid ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|f}}) all objects they were carrying and their corpse - including all parts thereof. Dwarves will cancel jobs to retrieve forbidden items.

As of v0.28.181.40a, an option is available to automatically forbid objects and corpses killed on the map. You can access the options via the following key combo: {{K|o}} - {{K|F}}

===Outside tasks===
The second behavior which leads to civilian dwarves in avoidable combat situations is dwarves who try to take jobs which take them outside. This is really a more general version of the previous (as they are trying to job 'take item to depot' for dropped items), but can be generated by any object or stockpile that's sitting outside. This is much harder to deal with unless you've kept your stockpiles inside and kept track of every object outside, because finding them to forbid them can be difficult, especially on larger maps or maps with many outdoor z-levels. Finally, not all outdoor jobs are going to be item collecting jobs. Woodcutters will want to chop designated trees (deselect them to stop this or turn off the labor), fisherdwarfs are going to want to go fishing (turn off the fishing labor), trappers will want to trap and hunters will want to hunt (turn off these labors). You'll want to turn off gathering refuse from outside as well using the [[standing orders]] menu: ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}).

===Rescue missions===
One last behavior which can (rarely) bring a civilian into combat is an attempt to rescue a wounded dwarf. Unfortunately you can't 'forbid' a living dwarf, but you can disable the "Health Care" job for the dwarf attempting the rescue. You may need to draft then undraft him to reset his health care job.

==Solutions==
==="All dwarves stay inside"===
You can order all your dwarves, or just non-soldier dwarves, to stay inside by using the standing orders menu: {{k|o}} - {{k|i}}. However this is often an ineffective solution because the prohibition only kicks in when a dwarf actually steps outside. Thus, if combat (or other enemy deterrence systems) are at or near your entrance, telling dwarves to stay inside will not help - they will still try to take these jobs, walk outside (right into a combat situation), and then realize they aren't supposed to be there, cancel the job, walk back inside, and try to take the same job again.

Setting only soldiers to go outside is not a cure-all, since soldiers can still generate Pickup Equipment jobs and run one by one into a hail of goblin crossbow fire.

Also, dwarves will go outside even under this order if there is something inside they want that can only be reached by going outside.

===Remove distractions===
As described above, as soon as a siege or ambush occurs, turn off the labors of dwarves who have outdoor tasks (woodcutting, fishing, trapping and hunting), un-designate ({{k|d}} - {{k|x}}) trees or shrubs that were set to be cut or gathered, and forbid ({{k|d}}} - {{{k|f}}) anything outdoors that your dwarves might want to fetch (such as freshly-cut logs). Continue doing this as the combat progresses and bodies and items start dropping. Turning off refuse hauling, as described above ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}), may help. So can telling dwarves not to collect bodies: {{k|o}} - {{k|g}} if you use stockpiles for dead dwarves (which [[coffin|you shouldn't]]).

===Batten down the hatches===
An easier solution to manage is locking all your dwarves inside, for instance by raising drawbridges. This tends to break invader AIs however, as they will just mill about outside (not walking forward into your traps) because they can't find a path to a dwarf. It also makes it more difficult to get military out to the invaders because when you open the doors your dwarves will start taking outdoor jobs again.

===Martial law===
One last solution is to draft all your civilian dwarves and station them somewhere deep within your fortress. It will generate a lot of unhappy thoughts, and kill your productivity for the duration of the siege, but it will stop them from being stupid. Watch out for newly-recruited dwarves who are set to equip armour or weapons, however: they may attempt to run out into the fray to equip themselves if 'Soldiers can go outside' is selected.

===Forward barracks===
Create your barracks, a food stockpile, weapons and armour stockpiles, small meeting hall, etc. near the entrance of your fort for your military dwarves to use. Have the rest of your fort separated by lockable doors. When fighting occurs, lock all non-military dwarves in the back of the fort where they can continue working undisturbed. Forcing all incoming traffic to move through your barracks has the added benefit of making it likely that any sneaky [[thief]] will be discovered in the middle of your sparring ground -- with predictably gruesome results for the thief.

The forward barracks concept can be extended by placing the barracks so far forward that they are on the surface, outside the fortress proper, forming a castle of sorts. This requires encircling walls or channels on the surface to force enemies into a designated approach path and block others, so there is more work required of the player. One benefit is that the "soldiers can go outside" order will keep civilians out of the castle, and thus hopefully out of harm's way; also this will consume large amounts of those stones that clutter up the fortress.

==Conclusion==
The existence of this problem is a strong argument for doing as much as you can to give your dwarves little reason to go outside. The fewer reasons your dwarves have for going outside, the fewer dwarves you will lose to crazy dwarves wandering into the line of fire. It has the side benefit of greatly reducing your casualties from ambushes. Strategies like building a [[trade depot]] indoors, behind a retractable drawbridge, will help keep your dwarves out of danger.

Providing indoor pastimes (like a [[sculpture garden]], [[zoo]], [[meeting hall]], or a meeting area [[zone]]) will make dwarves spend their break time in the fortress rather than outside. This will prevent dwarves from hanging around outside, which will lessen the likelihood that they will get caught outside when siegers arrive. Creative use of water resources to create an [[underground forest]] can limit danger to woodcutters. Hunters, haulers and other dwarves who have business outside will still be at risk.

{{Military FAQ}}

40d Talk:Wound

2008-12-13T13:44:21Z

Pyrite: /* broken leg */

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, have you seen where his injury is? It could be a nervous injury, which never heals (see the wound article, its really sad).

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
: I only had this once when I started a fortress in a desert without any water resources. Maybe this is a hack to prevent dwarves from dying from thirst? [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:20, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
: I believe every season there is a chance of a red wound healing. Perhaps he had extraordinarily high toughness and you got lucky? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 19:53, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:I have a guard who's doing the same. Red lung wound and he's still trying to make his rounds as a guard. On the other hand, his toughness seems to be high enough that he's not dying from it... He rested when he was initially wounded (sparring) but got up because he was thirsty. He fell unconscious once in the process, but managed to slake his thirst. And then got up and grabbed his equipment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::FWIW, this guard lasted two more years limping along with a red lung until he finally died making a suicidal charge during a goblin siege. Îton Koganûker earned himself his own little decorated burial niche for his hardheaded service. Incidentally, I looked back at him and he actually had not toughness mods, so a regular dwarf survived three years with a red lung and might have survived longer if not for the charge. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I have 3 dwarves who are very injured, and seem to be refusing to move, I deactivated their squad status, but none are unconcious, and none of the dwarves at ALL are helping them for some reason, they just keep walking over them, ignoring them.

I have a royal guard with a similar problem. Was wondering if it would ever heal, but I'm starting to think after more than two years that lung injuries also never heal. Mine has at least one level of toughness, though, and the only affect is that he walks slightly slower and flashes the wounded signal at me.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 08:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Broken brain? ==

I just got a kobold trapped in my hall of spiky death, and on its wound list was a yellow(broken) brain. I suppose that means it's going to die very soon, but it seems to be fine to me... --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 18:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's a kobold. You missed all its vital spots. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:53, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack ==
I have a dwarf with a lopped off left eye and right eye (and throat? how's he still suffering??) that is convinced that he's still under attack.
He's litterally spamming with over 1000 messages that he's canceling rest: interrupted by goblin crossbowman. In the 200-300 message range it was amusing. At this point, I'm only hoping that he shuts up when another dwarf drags him off to a bed for some rest. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 14:29, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
:Put him out of his misery. In style. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:43, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::How? The last of the goblin ambushes for that season shut him up for me. But I don't know how to kill off one of my own dwarves. Well... not intentionally anyway. Especially when he's so busy being unconsious that he's constantly interrupting his rest due to the memory of being shot at by a goblin. I think he got up to about 3000 messages. All his minor wounds healed up too. His head was still mangled (red) with his eyes & throat lopped off (grey). Well, until the goblin finished him off anyway. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 22:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:::For future reference, you can kill one of your dwarves off by dropping a constructed floor on him. Thus, it makes some sense to make bedrooms with a way to drop floor tiles on the beds. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Two words: Lava. Failing that, I usually went with GreyMaria's method and just tunnel out over the head of the wounded dwarf, and built/demolished floors atop him until dead. Too bad you can't build on bridges...I'd have an infirmary kept niiice and warm by a lava pit. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:47, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::LOL I wish! Poor guy collapsed above ground, about 7 steps away from the entrance to the fortress. And as for dealing with any other dwarves... I've found the lava, but they're pretty stubborn about not wanting to dig anywhere near it anymore. These bunch also seem to be only seasonal-miners too. They practically refuse to dig durring the winter & are reluctant to dig in the fall. Which leaves me to spring & summer for any fortress improvements that don't involve construction or engraving. They like farming and they like engraving. Canceling those tasks doesn't even seem to encourage them to dig. They'd rather sit around with no job than go dig out rooms near the lava. Boy, ya loose 1 dwarf to a random fire-man and the dig designations never get worked on! [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 00:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
: As fun as it is to off wounded dwarves [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.0 this thread on the message board] alleges that destroying the bed may end the message spam. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: Thanks for the link. I'd post there but for some odd reason my browsers won't let me register on that forum. I keep getting redirected back to the index. I can't even read the help on registering because that also redirects me back to the index. Regardless, you are correct that in my case the dwarf had not reached a bed. I think in my case it was that the goblin crossbowman that had attacked that dwarf, had later fallen into a cage trap and hadn't been killed (or left the map) yet. I've a bit of a backlog on goblins waiting to use my drowning rooms.

==Animal Wounds==
How fast can animals (e.g. leopards) heal wounds? Because I have a leopard which has minor injuries on the brain, heart, lungs and guts, and I want to use it to guard my fort (i feel like im gonna be sieged soon).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm fairly certain animals can only be healed via the animal caretaker labor. I had a cat with a mangled leg for 3 years before it stumbled into a weapon trap full of looted pikes. If the creature isn't assigned to anyone, the dwarf that trained the leopard can caretake it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've never studied the mechanics of animal caretaking, but I've gotten the impression that it's a "free" task -- any time your caretaker crosses paths with a wounded animal, the animal has a chance to get better. Try turning on caretaking on all your dwarves. The leopard might need to be uncaged in order for the caretaking to take place.

:But a guardian leopard alone is not going to be enough against a siege. For that, you want at least a dozen wardogs, or a set of traps at least six deep at all entrances (ten deep if they're "mere" stone traps), or some decent marksdwarves -- five or more is best, because at just the wrong moment, half of them will wander off to drink or sleep (or reload). A single champion with top-quality armor and weapon and very high shield user, armor user, and wrestling skills can potentially take out a whole squad by him or herself, but that takes about two or three years worth of sparring (with another champion) and you better hope they don't get spinal injuries or they'll stop training altogether.

:Barring that, use dogs if you got 'em, traps if you don't. And build traps anyway. You can secure a fortress in a couple of months using a couple of mechanics. And you won't get hit by an actual goblin siege until you have 80 dwarves, supposedly, though "ambushes" of about 8 goblins can come much sooner.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I did get sieged, but my army decimated the ugly gobbos before they could even come close (theres a load of blood near the norhern edge now) so the leopard was of no use. Talking of ward dogs, being an idiot, I went and made most of my dogs available for pets before I realised that pets cant be trained. Luckily a pair of stray puppies grew up a day before the siege but the two war dogs which i trained were too slow and the battle was over before they reached. About the animal caretaker, I do have one but he isn't really doing anything about the leopard (and a fox which i also bought from the elves, also with same injuries) --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 23:51, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain from my experiences that animal caretaking only applies to animals that 'belong' to the caretaker. The only dwarf with any skill in caretaking I've had has been my dungeon master because he has trained over a dozen wardogs that haven't been assigned elsewhere yet. Meanwhile my champions have wardogs and cats that have been mangled for years. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I've seen animals on chains healed -- by whom, I don't know. It may just be that dwarves are more likely to heal their own pets since said pets are always in their vicinity.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Apparently any caged animal you buy has minor wounds on the brain, heart, lungs and guts. I bought a jaguar, another leopard and a rhesus from the elves and all have the same injuries.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 21:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::I bought a black bear cage and it didn't have any wounds, could it be that the elves are traveling through a hostile region to reach your fortress? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Are you in a cold region? Maybe they got frostbitten on the trip to the depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== Down, but not Out ==

Something I noticed earlier today: Late in my first winter, one of my dwarves was injured while sparring with swords. His leg was yellow, no blood anywhere to be seen, and he was literally right next to a bed. He would not accept any jobs, wouldn't climb into bed to rest, eat, drink water, and nobody else would help him. He lay on the floor for a few months until he got really dehydrated and fell unconscious. Finally somebody drug him to the bed and is now bringing him water. I also noticed that "He is socially crippled by thoughts that everybody is watching and judging him" in his profile. Too mistrusting of help until he is unable to say no (finally fell unconscious). I'm hoping for a full recovery now that he is accepting help. [[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 18:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:King

2008-12-13T13:34:01Z

Pyrite:

User:Pyrite

2008-12-13T12:52:47Z

Pyrite: New page: Hey, I just got started, on my first fort that survived it's first winter. Things were looking up at Lancersearched, but due to unforseen difficulties, we lost more dwarves than we've been...

40d Talk:Siege

2008-12-13T12:50:22Z

Pyrite: /* I said stay inside! */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

===Megabeast Trigger ===

So, I'm in my 9th year with a population of 79 and haven't seen a megabeast yet, despite over 5 million in fortress wealth. I'd say the trigger has to be population and not wealth. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant Eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Morale==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:It might be dependent on whether the squad leader gets killed. Hard to tell, though -- most battles are pretty chaotic.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::That might be it, the squad leader was the first to be cut in half by a trap :D [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Siegers Listen to Orders ==
I can make my human siegers wait or not by changing orders; if dwarves are allowed to go outside, they will approach any usable entrances, but if I tell them to bunker down, they bugger off back to their campfires. "Pet Doors"(forbidden, pet-passable) are useful for this, since they allow siegers to approach but don't let dwarves outside to die.

==I Said Stay Inside!==
So I've taken the ramps off of a pair of hills, making them into circular towers of natural stone. Then I connected them with a wall. I put a door with a bridge over it to let me get through, and set it up so I could retract the bridge and isolate the second hill if necessary. I built a food stockpile and a meeting hall under the second hill. Then some goblins laid siege. I told the dwarves to stay inside. A squad of bowgoblins walked over to my wall. I didn't think this was a problem, until i started getting messages about dwarves bleeding to death. They were running across the wall to get to my backup food stockpile and meeting hall. Apparently they thought "I can't go outside, but the meeting hall isn't outside, so I should be ok to walk across this narrow walkway, completely exposing my silhouette to enemy fire. Y'know what, I'll take my baby with me." The only good thing was that the goblins were so busy shooting at my helpless dwarves and their pets that my pair of champion melee fighters were able to tear their flank a new one. Something should probably be updated to reflect that this can happen, but I don't know what and how. For now, I'll be widening the walls and lining them with fortifications. That should make them able to make the trip without dying, at least.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:49, 13 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-12-13T12:49:31Z

Pyrite:

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

===Megabeast Trigger ===

So, I'm in my 9th year with a population of 79 and haven't seen a megabeast yet, despite over 5 million in fortress wealth. I'd say the trigger has to be population and not wealth. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant Eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Morale==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:It might be dependent on whether the squad leader gets killed. Hard to tell, though -- most battles are pretty chaotic.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::That might be it, the squad leader was the first to be cut in half by a trap :D [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Siegers Listen to Orders ==
I can make my human siegers wait or not by changing orders; if dwarves are allowed to go outside, they will approach any usable entrances, but if I tell them to bunker down, they bugger off back to their campfires. "Pet Doors"(forbidden, pet-passable) are useful for this, since they allow siegers to approach but don't let dwarves outside to die.

==I said stay inside!==
So I've taken the ramps off of a pair of hills, making them into circular towers of natural stone. Then I connected them with a wall. I put a door with a bridge over it to let me get through, and set it up so I could retract the bridge and isolate the second hill if necessary. I built a food stockpile and a meeting hall under the second hill. Then some goblins laid siege. I told the dwarves to stay inside. A squad of bowgoblins walked over to my wall. I didn't think this was a problem, until i started getting messages about dwarves bleeding to death. They were running across the wall to get to my backup food stockpile and meeting hall. Apparently they thought "I can't go outside, but the meeting hall isn't outside, so I should be ok to walk across this narrow walkway, completely exposing my silhouette to enemy fire. Y'know what, I'll take my baby with me." The only good thing was that the goblins were so busy shooting at my helpless dwarves and their pets that my pair of champion melee fighters were able to tear their flank a new one. Something should probably be updated to reflect that this can happen, but I don't know what and how. For now, I'll be widening the walls and lining them with fortifications. That should make them able to make the trip without dying, at least.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:49, 13 December 2008 (EST)