Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Millstone

2009-12-02T19:05:02Z

Petersohn: /* Non-Plant Reactions in Millstones */

There is no key for this workshop design template. I don't know what is what. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:54, 15 November 2007 (EST)

----

Can one millstone handle multiple jobs at once? If so, how many? Do I need to build multiple millstones to grind up my dimple cup farm's large output?
* With the mill plants task on repeat, I've always been limited by bag production and not capacity of the millstone. However I normally build two just because I can power that from one windmill. [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 11:14, 27 November 2007 (EST)

==z-level (-1)==
Isn't the whole z-level (-1) unnecessary? [[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 07:49, 27 November 2007 (EST)
* yes [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 11:14, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Unless you want to power multiple mills then the gear assembly is unnecessary too you could put the mill directly under the vertical axle/ windmill
* Are you sure? The millstone showed as unpowered when I tried that [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 12:44, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, putting the millstone directly underneath a windmill definitely works. (version 0.27.169.33d) I've updated the article accordingly. --[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 01:40, 13 December 2007 (EST)

::I added a note to the page to qualify: If you build a millstone and then a windmill above it, your stone will not be powered! You must build the windmill first and then the millstone. --[[User:Zwergner|Zwergner]] 00:10, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
:::I'm assuming this involves a supported windmill - a hanging windmill can be built directly above a millstone and will generate its power correctly, at least in 40d. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Why is the room on -1 2x2? Doesn't it only have to be 2x1? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 22:09, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
* Yes, the extra two tiles on the left are unnecessary. [[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 19:46, 6 August 2009 (EST)

== Vs. Quern ==

Is a Millstone better than a Quern? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 13:06, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:It has to. It uses 10 power for a reason. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:43, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Yes, it is significantly faster. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 15:59, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

==template "power" section==
Millstone workshop template probably should have a "Power" section, similar to [[gear]]. --[[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:07, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

==Power transmission==
I was wondering whether millstones can transmit power to adjacent machine components so I did a couple of experiments and it turns out they can. Gear assemblies, horizontal axles and other millstones placed next to a powered millstone are also powered (I didn't try vertical axles). --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 17:30, 27 February 2009 (EST)

== Non-Plant Reactions in Millstones ==

I was thinking that maybe you could mill stone, and get "Dwarven Rock Flower". However, it would have poor value and no dwarf would actually like it (but many would DISlike it). You could maybe even grind up Rock Salt to get, well, salt (obviously); and a more complex recipe could by Charcoal + Saltpeter + Brimstone = Dwarven Chili Powder, the main ingredient in Dwarven Tabasco Sauce.
:Good idea. Cinnebar could be milled into another kind of dye, or coal+<sulphur>=you-know-what

User:Petersohn

2009-12-01T12:39:57Z

Petersohn: Created page with '==My first fortress== The first fortress that lived for a longer time. It was called Tailkey, lasted for a fairly long time, and had many Stupid dwarf tricks. It was lost bec…'

==My first fortress==
The first fortress that lived for a longer time. It was called Tailkey, lasted for a fairly long time, and had many [[Stupid dwarf trick]]s. It was lost because I lost the save file.

It lied on a very easy ground. Chalk mountain, river, lots of trees. Tons of magnetite and other iron ore and fairly large amount of coal. The only difficulty was carps, which I got rid of by draining the ponds and the river they lived in.

To be continued...

User:Fastjack

2009-12-01T12:39:34Z

Petersohn: /* My first fortress */

Whoops!

User:Fastjack

2009-12-01T12:31:01Z

Petersohn: /* My first fortress */

User:Fastjack

2009-12-01T12:30:05Z

Petersohn: Created page with '==My first fortress== The first fortress that lived for a longer time. It was called Tailkey, lasted for a fairly long time, and had many Stupid Dwarf Tricks. It was lost bec…'

==My first fortress==
The first fortress that lived for a longer time. It was called Tailkey, lasted for a fairly long time, and had many [[Stupid Dwarf Trick]]s. It was lost because I lost the save file.

It lied on a very easy ground. Chalk mountain, river, lots of trees. Tons of magnetite and other iron ore and fairly large amount of coal. The only difficulty was carps, which I got rid of by draining the ponds and the river they lived in.

40d:Fluid logic

2009-12-01T12:09:29Z

Petersohn: /* Advanced CMOS Gates */

Fluid logic is a form of [[computing]] which uses a fluid (generally [[water]]) controlled by various means, to trigger [[pressure plate]]s and hopefully accomplish some desirable result.

==Infinite Flow Gates==
[[File:Logic1.gif|thumb]]
These logic gates are relatively simple and cheap to make, but require an infinite amount of water and infinite drainage to operate (alternatively a power-hungry pump-circuit). Credit goes to numerous forum members for refining these designs.<br clear="all"/>

==Mechanical-Fluid Gates==
[[File:Logic2.gif|thumb]]
The water sources in these diagrams are located 1 z-level below the pumps and gear assemblies.

These gate designs have the advantage of destroying no water and requiring no drainage off the map, making them suitable for maps where infinite water and/or drainage may be a problem. The only fluid lost will be to evaporation. However, there are a number of disadvantages. They require significantly more materials and time to make, they require [[power]], and a [[flood]] could have disasterous consequences, as it would cover all the plates at once.

For the XOR-Gate it is assumed that the gear is powered by a windmill on a map with strong wind (40 power). If both gears are active the XOR-Gate would need more than 40 power and will stop working. If you use a different source of power - a waterwheel with axles or combined windmills 20 power each - you´ll have to add or remove some gears or axles to calibrate it.<br clear="all"/>

==CMOS Transmission Gate and Inverter Logic==
[[File:Inverter.gif|thumb]]
Perhaps the closest to utilizing water as a stand-in for electricity, transmission gate logic can be accomplished by simply having an infinite water source in place of all +Vs, and infinite drainage for all grounds. Simple floodgates behave as standard transmission gates, while bridges are inverted gates. However, unlike the other forms of fluid logic, but like a real world electrical circuit, a dedicated inverter is required, which must be hooked up to +V and ground.

==Advanced CMOS Gates==
This type of logic uses the same concept as real CMOS circuits do, which causes them to minimalize power (in this case, water) consumption. The idea is that water should only flow when there is a state change.

===Basic Design===
Let's say we want to evaluate the logical expression ''f''. It can be a simple '''and''' or '''or''' gate, or anything more complicated. Follow the following scheme:

{| style="border-spacing: 0"
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|-
|{{RTF|╗}}
|{{RTF|A}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT0|^|#808}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|B}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|}

Here, {{Tile|A|#FFF|#000}} is a set of floodgates and/or drawbridges that let water flow exactly when ''f'' evaluates to true, {{Tile|B|#FFF|#000}} is the same except that it lets water flow when ''f'' evaluates to false, {{Tile|^|#808|#000}} is a pressure plate set to activate on water levels 4-7, and {{Tile|#|#FFF|#000}} is the drain.

===Examples===
In the following examples, {{Tile|X|#000|#888}} is a floodgate, and {{Tile|╬|#FFF|#000}} is a drawbridge. Red ones are connected to input A, green ones to input B and blue ones to input C.

====NOT====
{| style="border-spacing: 0"
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|-
|{{RTF|╗}}
|{{RT|╬|#F00|#000}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT0|^|#808}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#800}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|}

====AND====
{| style="border-spacing: 0"
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|-
|{{RTF|╗}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#800}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|{{RTF|═}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#080}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT0|^|#808}}
|{{RTF|╚}}
|{{RTF|╗}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|{{000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#F00|#000}}
|{{RT|╬|#0F0|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|}

====OR====
{| style="border-spacing: 0"
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|-
|{{RTF|╗}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#800}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#080}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|{{000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT0|^|#808}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|{{RTF|╝}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#F00|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#0F0|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|}

====XOR====
This is not as straightforward as the previous ones. The ''true'' expression is the following: (A '''and not''' B) '''or''' ('''not''' A '''and''' B). The ''false'' expression: (A '''and''' B) '''or''' ('''not''' A '''and not''' B).

So the gates look like the following:

{| style="border-spacing: 0"
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{H2O}}
|-
|{{RTF|╗}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#800}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#080}}
|{{RTF|╔}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#0F0|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#F00|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{000}}
|{{RT0|^|#808}}
|{{000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#F00|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#800}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|╬|#0F0|#000}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RT|X|#FFF|#080}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|-
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|{{RTF|#}}
|{{RTF|║}}
|}

===Advantages And Disadvantages===
The basic advantage of this design is that it uses much less water than infinite flow gates. A river is enough to supply even the more complex systems, maybe with an added reservoir to neutralise flow irregularities. Similarly, for the drain, it is enough to excavate a cavern where the water can evaporate.

The disadvantage is that it requires much more resources and time to construct, especially more mechanisms. And more planning, since floodgates tend to block paths when constructed.

===Faster Version===
The main factors that affect the speed of these gates are the delays of floodgates and bridges, and the switch-off delay of pressure plates. These cannot be eliminated.

Another factor is the flowing speed of the water. It can be improved. First, the water should flow in from a reservoir a few z-levels higher then the gates themselves (the more the better). This way, water will flow in much faster. Next, replace the pressure plates with up stairs, and make a 2x1 room one z-level above. On on tile is a down stair, and on the other is the pressure plate. Now the water will also flow out faster, or at least the pressure plate will switch off sooner.

This increases the water consumption a bit, but it still remains relatively low.

[[Category:Constructions]]

40d Talk:Fluid logic

2009-11-30T12:46:51Z

Petersohn: /* CMOS logic */

Can anyone explain how the XOR of the Mechanical-Fluid Gates work? I don´t seem to understand it...--[[User:Kami|Kami]] 17:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
* Sure. It assumes the pump is powered by a windmill on a map with strong wind (40 power). If neither input is on, the power is only transfered to the southeast gear assembly (total of 10 power consumed). If only the yellow gear assembly is connected (considered to be a logic high), then every gear assembly but the green input is powered (30 power in gear assys, 10 power for the pump). If only the green assembly is connected, the yellow assy and the white one to the north are both disconnected (25 power in gear assys, 10 for the pump). But if both assys are connected, the entire thing requires 45 power to work, and nothing turns. Easily modifiable with a huge number of gears for water wheel power. I believe a windmill farm would be necessary on a map with 20 or 10 wind. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
** Now I understand. But I think this should be mentioned anywhere. ^^<br />By the way, I don´t think this is a good concept. You´ll have to empower every single part of your "computer" by itself. And you´ll have to calculate your power well and build tons of useless gears. Complex logic will lead you to a state you can´t handle it anymore... I´ll think of it. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 13:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
*** Probably not the best system, yeah. I was mainly just trying to think of a system which destroys a minimum amount of water, to be able to compute on a map with only murky pools. You may want to look at the [[mechanical logic]] page, too. That's where I got the XOR design from. If there's a better way to make an XOR with gears and axles, I can't think of it. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 23:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
****Just hook the inputs up to the same gear- gear assemblies toggle. You'll need to "invert" the pressure plate, though, since hooking up two levers to a gear assembly leaves them both off and the power on. With one lever pulled, the power's off, and with both it's back on. 23:34, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
****I think this is more mechanical computing than water computing, because in this case the logic lies within the gears and power. The water is only used to convert power into lever signals.<br />But I see the destruction of water is a problem you will have to solve if you have limited ressources. Did you ever consider to use hatches to control the flow of water? This would require more pumping, but could work?<br />An XOR with gears that is not based on underpovering can be made the same way you did for the infinite flow gates above. A XOR B = (A AND NOT B) OR (NOT A AND B) | A XNOR B = (A AND B) OR (NOT A and NOT B)<br />Oh, and here is an short example of computing I tested: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1745-dwarfputerv01 --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 10:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

==Help: Time Keeping, a counting problem==
Ok, I am well-and-truly crazy, but I want to make a DF clock. One which accurately tracks days and month. (Additional awesome for tracking 'hours' within days, but that would be crazy). So, i think i know what to do conceptually, but i'm having problems making the leap from concept to a concept of execution in the game. (Part of this certainly results from my having had problems getting pressure plates to work properly before)

Thoughts: <br>
So, there's going to be some minimal repeater, which toggles with a frequency of f. Each toggle of the repeater fills a 1x1 area with 7/7 water, or dumps that water.

The resevoir into which the water is dumped with each toggle is 7x1, causing it to fill to 1/7 everywhere the first time, 2/7 the second, etc... When it reaches 7/7 it dumps...

...into a 7x7, which similarly fills up to 7/7 over 7 dumps of the second level system.

Issues: How do i ensure perfect draining of a 1x7 area in relatively short time? A 7x7 area? How many iterations / what final depth on last iteration do i need to count out a day/month? (Ie, how short or long does a repeater tend to run per repeat, and what multiple of that is sufficient to count out a month?)

Biggest issue: It must work slowly enough to allow draining yet quickly enough to permit accurate counting of days.

I suppose after the 1x7 it could trigger another 1x1 repeater, and i could just parallelize that way, with each repeater being triggered slower and slower. The 7x1 could also be a 6x1 column with a 1x2 top layer (7 cubes, 6 vertical, 7th needs a floor to measure depth), which would help with rapid draining, but will it be rapid enough?

So, any thoughts? How can I build this and not go crazy?

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC) has the potential to become the greatest dwarfputer ever!

Here are some suggestions:
* If you fill an area with 1/7 water you will encounter a problem with evaporation, especially when it takes more time until you add more water for example when you´re counting months.
* Possible solution: You could work with multiple of 2/7 water or use some system that adds an additional 1/7 water per field for the first time.
* You can´t totally drain an area, even it goes -1 z-level through a whole at one side a 1/7 portion of water will always stay there. One possibility would be to use a hatch or a bridge, but then you can´t use a pressure plate as trigger.
* Imagination: 6/7 would be perfect if you have an 1x3 area and want to use multiple of 2/7 water.
* Don´t use larger areas for each level like you suggested (1 7 43 ...). Use multiple small components connected via pressure plate in a row.
* Suggest to work with components like others used for their alculation machines. Using the height of water is not the the best idea comparing to pure binary logic with filled/not filled.
* I think the best repeater would be a that goblin one.

--[[User:Kami|Kami]] 11:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:Ok, big first issue: I made a rough build of a single component as i proposed, just to see if it would work at all. It doesn't. For some reason I can't have a single pressure plate open the floodgates *and* close the hatches? Am i misunderstanding something about the way pressure plates work?

:So, i'm filling with pressurized water, meaning the 1x1 component goes to 7/7 instantaneously. This means it should open the floodgate to drain the 1x1 and close the hatch to prevent additional fill of the 1x1 at the same time. Flood gate opens fine but the hatch refuses to close... What the heck am i doing wrong? Shouldn't the pressure plate toggle both hatches and floodgates to the opposite of their current positions?

:If it toggles multiple times, maybe i could just open and close components with a 3/7-4/7 signal and it could just repeatedly toggle the components at some frequency that could be counted with other components... of course, then i need to time every component separately - now that sounds like a nightmare.

:This would be easier if screw pumps didn't create water, so their supply was actually limited by how much had gone in...

:Issue with lots of binary components - that sounds a lot more space intensive. It does, however, sound more foolproof.

:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

::Relevant additional question - Does anyone know how many 'steps' there are in a DF day? Month? Year? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

:Your Problem is: pressure plates and levers have a "on" and a "off" state. "On" opens door, floodgates and hatches, "off" closes them. It is not possible to open one thing and close another directly with the same lever or pressure plate. Look at [[lever]] for more information. You´ll have to use some kind of signal-inverter or use a bridge to block flow. Bridges can be used as inverted doors ([[fluid logic]]). --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 15:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

::That's really stupid. But creatures stepping on a pressure plate just work like a toggle? What the hell? Why can't fluids work more like that. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I think I have a design that might work. Its not exactly binary, but its going to be a whole lot easier to build rather than figuring out the mess of logic.

So the example repeater on the Repeater page says it works ~1/300 'steps'. Assume there are 1200 'steps' in a day.

P|_+_|_+^_

Where P is pressurized water, | is a floodgate, + is a drawbridge, ^ is a 3/7-7/7 pressure plate, and _ is a hatch. The doors and bridges are linked to the pressure plate in the repeater, which alternately toggles them, so it counts up to 4. The ^ at the end opens all the hatches when 'on' (voiding the system), and also triggers a day counter, built on similar principles but 28 long. The day counter similarly triggers a month counter that is 12 long. The difference being each step of the day/month counter needs a ^ to trigger a display somewhere (unless you use the counter itself as the display, which is admittedly inelegant).

... The ^ from the repeater is going to toggle on and off once per iteration isn't it, so it'll do two parts instead of one per 300 'steps'? crap. I suppose you need to make it twice as long then, huh? Ie:

P|_+_|_+_|_+_|_+^_

(As much fun as building a full binary system would be, I want something that can be constructed relatively quickly, which in this case means 'with a limited number of logic structures')

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Ok, it doesn't work, i can't keep water at 7/7 through the whole thing (annoying).
:a day is also not an integer multiple of that particular repeater. Its somewhere between 3 and 4 iterations. Ugg, getting this to work properly is going to drive me nuts. I'm not really sure I want to try to code in binary... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:04, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm.. with a little more complication i don't need to have them in sequence. But drainage becomes a bigger engineering problem... Ok, lets solve the repeater:day ratio problem first, then i'll try to figure out how to 'wire' this mess. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:39, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
::I have seen a video of a goblin running forth an back towards triggered doors. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1299-goblininfiniteloop I think this would be a perfect and scalable repeater... I think if you know how fast a goblin can run and how long it would take to find the new way, you´ll be able to have him "repeat" exactly x times a day. --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 19:39, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

:::So, there's this theory that a day has 1200 'ticks'. Bridges and floodgates have a 100 tick delay (assuming they're built *before* the pressure plate, o/w 101 ticks...). Theory seems to suggest pressurized water pushes 7/7 water into an open space each tick. So the minimal repeater with pressurized water: P+^| has a 202 tick cycle (assuming +,| are built before ^). Theory - we need to extend the front end of this 38 squares to get a 240 tick repeater (1200/240 = 5).

:::by front end i mean something like P+____..._____+^|, where _ are open space with hatch covers, because this needs to completely drain each cycle, and also not interfere with the spacing of the actual repeater, just the time it takes to refill/retrigger.

:::I need to actually build this and run some timing tests... The other problem is i'm assuming infinitely pressurized water - need to check feasibility if i'm draining 38 squares of water each cycle of the repeater... (admittedly, i can use its waste water to pressurize whatever adder i have keeping track of how often its repeated...)

:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

== Image improvement ==
[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]], you added an 'Image Rules Notice'. Can you explain what you'd like to have improved? Using the default tileset would rather reduce than improve clarity.
: The only thing that's rule-related is to convert from GIF to PNG, which is minor. I'd still find these a bit confusing after that, though; a few suggestions:
:* Change |thumb to |right or |left so they appear at full size, since they're an important part of the content and not an aside.
:* Omit the gridlines.
:* Use a black background.
:* Use the foreground color for color-coding the functional pieces. So the gear assembly itself would be green or purple, not the tile under it.
:* Use a thicker/bolder font.
:* ''Maybe'' draw some partially transparent arrows over the tiles to illustrate the flow of the logic. I.e., from this tile, to that tile, to that tile, ...
:* ''Maybe'' split them out into one graphic per diagram. This may not matter much once they're full-size, though.
: I found [[User:Hussell/SetResetLatch]] to be pretty readable, using mostly the standard tileset. I'll try to find some time today to mock one of these up with RT, to see how it looks.
: --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 14:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

::With the sole exception of screwpumps, i think the default tileset would make things a lot clearer. Also, why say 'input' and 'output' when what you mean is 'water' and 'pressure plate'? A less formal abstract treatment and a more DF-termed treatment might make it more accessible. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:36, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:::I allready tried to use default tileset, not for water logic but for mechanical logic, and failed so far. Especially pumps and plates for different levels are a problem, but also linkage issues and I/O can be difficult do display. But I have to admit that [[User:Hussell/SetResetLatch|Hussell's SetResetLatch]] looks quite good.<br />@[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]: I don't think the problem of this page are the images. There should be more Text to explain how they are working.--[[User:Kami|Kami]] 15:11, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
:::: [[File:Fluid darkbg.png|right]] For comparison, here's what it might look like with black backgrounds, varying foregrounds, no gridlines, and thicker glyphs:
:::: --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 17:29, 9 November 2009 (UTC) <br clear="all"/>

== CMOS logic ==

The logic gate described as CMOS logic is actually classic transistor logic, which relies on the flow of current (water). The point of CMOS logic is that there is only flow at state changes. It would look like this in Dwrf Fortress (not tested yet):
<pre>
║S║ - water source
╠X╣ - floodgate
║p║ - pressure plate
╠B╣ - drawbridge
║D║ - drain
</pre>
The floodgate and the bridge are connected to the same input, and the pressure plate will be the output (either positive or negative). It has an advantage of low water usage (the same as real CMOS circuits), so it can be connected to a permanent water source (or even a pond that is filled occasionally), and can be drained by letting the water into a large cavern where it will evaporate.

[[Special:Contributions/89.132.124.161|89.132.124.161]] 13:11, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
* I'm on to testing this logic and will write to the main page when ready. [[User:Petersohn|Petersohn]] 07:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
** Done. [[User:Petersohn|Petersohn]] 12:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

40d:Fluid logic

2009-11-30T12:45:22Z

Petersohn:

40d Talk:Bronze colossus

2009-11-29T22:38:22Z

Petersohn: /* Value Disparity */

Has anyone managed to see if the collossii still drop nice statues when you kill them with crossbows? --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:54, 8 November 2007 (EST)

They should no matter how you kill them. But I have verified that they still can slaughter about anything and toss it across the screen. And go through an entire army while only getting a scratch on the arm. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 16:45, 2 December 2007 (EST)

Good god, I've just lost three champions, two axe lords, and a swordmaster along with about twenty assorted soldiers and guards to one of these guys. And he heals himself. --[[User:Neatoburrito|Neatoburrito]] 15:38, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Should it be noted that if you can trap a colossus (via channels filled with water or similar) you can train marksdwarves VERY quickly by using it as a target (since it has no vitals to pierce and heals fast enough to overcome the damage from a couple of attackers). --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)

In an unfortunate pit fight mishap (I guess maybe megabeasts escape when you try to dump them into a pit?), I had one of these guys rampage through my base. My quite impressive army of champions put an end to it with not a single scratch on them. The only casualty other than the BC was a war dog who gave his life to save the poor Siege Engineer who was transporting the colossus to the pit. The SE went berserk later due to his injuries though :-(. Watching the whole thing with combat messages on was quite fun! --[[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 03:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Is it even possible to defeat one of these things without a military? I let it out of a cage for practice for my wrestler recruits (in retrospect, a bit dumb) and it proceeded to slaughter eighty dwarves and end my fortress. I recruited everyone in the fortress and he just slung them all into walls until they died.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:55, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== uses ==
I just got my first megabeast, and instead of a nice hydra or dragon to tame and have guard my fortress, I instead got one of these guys. I'm currently considering one of the following options: 1. put it in a zoo 2. put it in one of my [[unfortunate accident |noble's]] rooms 3. destroy it in magma 4. target practice or 5. just let it sit in a pit until the end of time. Does anyone know anything else better than these to do with this guy? the magam and pit seem to be just a waste, and the zoo might be boring.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 20:02, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:Kill it and install the statue. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:17, 8 December 2008 (EST)

sounds good, but 1. how do get it to my pit (about 20 z-levels) and 2. there is nothing fun to do with these guys? I can't have it be my fortress defence or something? Anyway, what is your suggestion for killing it. Note, my military consists of 1 speardwarf, and 4 recruits (whom I made after this event, so I would be more prepared.)--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 20:42, 8 December 2008 (EST)

== Adventure mode ==

Out of curiosity has anyone gotten around to taking one on in adventure mode as of {{version|0.28.181.40d}}? I did it with an exceptional copper spear and, aside from a good deal of glancing shots, it wasn't too difficult. I think my experience is an exception, though as my adventurer is pretty fearsome. I am hoping to add something about the chances an adventure would have typically and strategies for taking one down. Kind of like the [[Giant_cave_spider]] entry --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 20:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

==Value Disparity==
Killing a lowly iron man gives you a statue worth 3000 dwarfbucks. Killing a mighty [[bronze colossus]] gives you a statue worth only 1500, half the value. Something doesn't seem quite right - given its uniqueness, a bronze colossus ought to become an [[artifact]] statue, ideally with the bronze colossus's name. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
:This is not just the colossus. If you have a place with lots of iron in it (for example a chalk mountain with tons of magnetite), you can make everything out of iron, and even use magnetite as a building material. You will barely need obscure metals like bronze or fine pewter. You just use iron, or if you have enough coal, steel. [[User:Petersohn|Petersohn]] 22:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Bronze colossus

2009-11-29T22:38:09Z

Petersohn: /* Value Disparity */

40d Talk:Bridge

2009-11-28T17:40:54Z

Petersohn: /* Rain filling up ponds */

==Fluids vs bridges==
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==picture: south-raising drawbridge==
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
{{qd|cols=8
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

== Items... ==

When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Channeling ==

Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008

::This is particularly applicable to the process of obsidian mass production. If you have a bridge-held reservoir at Z-level 1, and a magma reservoir at Z-level 0, you will have to destroy and rebuild (and re-mechanize) your bridges every time you make obsidian. To solve this problem, I re-routed my magma to Z-level -1, and left Z-level 0 as empty space. I also re-routed my access paths so that miners will arrive in Z-level 0 from the west side, (and channel East to West, one row at a time) and my stone haulers will arrive in the northeast corner, so they can start hauling stone as soon as it is channeled out. Although this took several false starts, it is now a highly efficient system. If I ever do it again, however, I will build MUCH bigger reservoirs... And way wider channels for the magma. It takes FOREVER to fill my magma buffer... Would pumping the magma fix this? --[[User:Wattj|wattj]] 17:26, 1 February 2009 (EST)
:::Probably. Pumped magma behaves differently, while the pump is on.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bridges as a temporary wall ==

I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.

How long should the bridge be?

It looks like this:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒
.........╥.........
.........║.........
.........╨.........
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Retractable/drawbridge ==

How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Actually, they carry thousand pound boulders in their hands. And cut it into blocks with their '''mind'''--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bridge-on-bridge action ==

I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

== lockdown system ==

in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses

== Flying Bridge ==
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpiles under bridges ==

I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]

::You don't need to make a ledge. Just retract the bridge (so you aren't dumping ontop of it) and make a garbage dump zone where the bridge will close. Voila --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 01:03, 21 January 2009 (EST)

== Drawbridge vs colossus ==

Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.
My bridge broke instead.
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==

Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==

Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

GO GO GADGET TEST MELTY MECHANISMS --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:25, 16 January 2009 (EST)
:Nope, doesn't work. The mechanisms melted... and just when I was making to re-pull the lever, too. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:05, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Bridges and wagons? ==

Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Indestructible Caravan ==
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:Funny. I dropped a bridge on a Mangrove Wagon yesterday, and the wagon vaporized like any other sap. It was an iron bridge - maybe that's the difference? --[[User:HMS Prancytime|HMS Prancytime]] 16:15, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==

Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.

But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.

Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?

--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him... --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::Update: here's what I found out. A megabeast standing on a bridge will prevent said bridge from functioning. In my case, this means a retracting bridge will refuse to retreact unless the megabeast steps off or dies. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST)
:::A Zombie Elephant will do the same thing. --[[User:May Cause Drowsiness|May Cause Drowsiness]] 07:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Rain filling up ponds ==

Hi all. I just noticed something strange. I have a fortress without flowing water where it is hot (the ponds dry up) The evaporation depends on weather it is covered or not (I verified this 40d) But, if it is covered, then it doesn't refill with rain. So I thought, how about a retracting bridge. Nope. Even if it is retracted, the pond doesn't refill when it rains. Oh well. Probably has to do with the construction note above.[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:16, 19 January 2009 (EST)
:Try this: build a cavern under the pond, and a hatch cover linked to a lever between them. Wait until the pond fills with water, then pull the lever, and drain the pond. Close the hatch, then wait until it refills. [[User:Petersohn|Petersohn]] 17:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

== Building at the end of a bridge ==
As an addition to the info regarding bridges constructed at the end of bridges, apparently you can build walls and floors at the end of bridges as well, but upon completion, they collapse, along with the dwarf who was building it. I only tested with a retracting bridge, but I see no reason the same wouldn't apply to drawbridges. Of course, this information isn't really useful, but a warning on the page would be nice. Actually, I suppose it would make an innovative way of killing off masons. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 05:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
:I just discovered this the hard way, when my mayor / broker / manager / legendary carpenter / only architect attempted to build a floor at the end of a bridge, only to plummet to his watery death in the ocean. Plans have been drawn to drain the ocean into the aquifer in retaliation. ~ [[User:Eidako|Eidako]] 05:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapult. ==

If you have a bridge that raises directionally attached to a lever, and it has retaining walls, and everything is magma-proof, can you fill the retainer with magma, pull the switch... would it throw magma like it throws other objects?
--[[User:Roflcopter!|Roflcopter!]] 22:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:An easy experiment to try - let us know how it works out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::I tested with water, it does not get flung but it does get atom smashed. --[[User:winner|winner]] 08:41, 26 September 2009 (PST)

== Deconstruction Scaffold ==

Backstory: my new fort's entrance is accessible only via a bridge over the magma pipe, using two 3x10 raising bridges on the edges and a bunch of constructed floors in the middle (and constructed walls along the edges), and I recently decided to rebuild it with 3x2 raising bridges on the edges and retracting bridges in the middle (for dropping goblins into the magma, or for clearing away magma pumped onto the bridge). In order to do this, though, I would need to deconstruct the existing floors, removing the only path out of my fortress (except for the walled-off back door which I'd rather not reopen), so as a test, I attempted to build a retracting bridge '''over''' the floor and then remove the constructed floors underneath it. Amazingly, it worked, and it even left the building materials sitting directly on top of the bridge rather than falling into the magma pipe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Retracting ...bridgeapult? ==

So my fortress entrance is a bridge over a magma pipe (as described above for "deconstruction scaffold"). When I place items on the center retracting bridge and pull the lever to drop them, they fly '''into the air''' before falling down into the magma, some of them ending up on top of the retaining walls. I suspect that once I finish building a floor over the bridge (about 66% done right now), it'll start behaving properly and simply drop the items straight down into the magma. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

== Bridgeapults forum thread ==

The [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42111.0 bridgeapults] has experiments to test what exactly bridges do
--[[User:winner|winner]] 08:35, 26 September 2009 (PST)

40d Talk:Bridge

2009-11-28T17:39:59Z

Petersohn: /* Rain filling up ponds */

==Fluids vs bridges==
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==picture: south-raising drawbridge==
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
{{qd|cols=8
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

== Items... ==

When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Channeling ==

Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008

::This is particularly applicable to the process of obsidian mass production. If you have a bridge-held reservoir at Z-level 1, and a magma reservoir at Z-level 0, you will have to destroy and rebuild (and re-mechanize) your bridges every time you make obsidian. To solve this problem, I re-routed my magma to Z-level -1, and left Z-level 0 as empty space. I also re-routed my access paths so that miners will arrive in Z-level 0 from the west side, (and channel East to West, one row at a time) and my stone haulers will arrive in the northeast corner, so they can start hauling stone as soon as it is channeled out. Although this took several false starts, it is now a highly efficient system. If I ever do it again, however, I will build MUCH bigger reservoirs... And way wider channels for the magma. It takes FOREVER to fill my magma buffer... Would pumping the magma fix this? --[[User:Wattj|wattj]] 17:26, 1 February 2009 (EST)
:::Probably. Pumped magma behaves differently, while the pump is on.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bridges as a temporary wall ==

I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.

How long should the bridge be?

It looks like this:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒
.........╥.........
.........║.........
.........╨.........
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Retractable/drawbridge ==

How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Actually, they carry thousand pound boulders in their hands. And cut it into blocks with their '''mind'''--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:24, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bridge-on-bridge action ==

I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

== lockdown system ==

in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses

== Flying Bridge ==
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpiles under bridges ==

I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]

::You don't need to make a ledge. Just retract the bridge (so you aren't dumping ontop of it) and make a garbage dump zone where the bridge will close. Voila --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 01:03, 21 January 2009 (EST)

== Drawbridge vs colossus ==

Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.
My bridge broke instead.
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==

Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==

Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

GO GO GADGET TEST MELTY MECHANISMS --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:25, 16 January 2009 (EST)
:Nope, doesn't work. The mechanisms melted... and just when I was making to re-pull the lever, too. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:05, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Bridges and wagons? ==

Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Indestructible Caravan ==
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:Funny. I dropped a bridge on a Mangrove Wagon yesterday, and the wagon vaporized like any other sap. It was an iron bridge - maybe that's the difference? --[[User:HMS Prancytime|HMS Prancytime]] 16:15, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==

Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.

But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.

Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?

--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him... --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::Update: here's what I found out. A megabeast standing on a bridge will prevent said bridge from functioning. In my case, this means a retracting bridge will refuse to retreact unless the megabeast steps off or dies. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST)
:::A Zombie Elephant will do the same thing. --[[User:May Cause Drowsiness|May Cause Drowsiness]] 07:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

== Rain filling up ponds ==

Hi all. I just noticed something strange. I have a fortress without flowing water where it is hot (the ponds dry up) The evaporation depends on weather it is covered or not (I verified this 40d) But, if it is covered, then it doesn't refill with rain. So I thought, how about a retracting bridge. Nope. Even if it is retracted, the pond doesn't refill when it rains. Oh well. Probably has to do with the construction note above.[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:16, 19 January 2009 (EST)
:Try this: build a cavern under the pond, and a hatch cover linked to a lever between them. Wait until the pond fills with water, then pull the lever, and drain the pond. Close the hatch, then wait until it refills.

== Building at the end of a bridge ==
As an addition to the info regarding bridges constructed at the end of bridges, apparently you can build walls and floors at the end of bridges as well, but upon completion, they collapse, along with the dwarf who was building it. I only tested with a retracting bridge, but I see no reason the same wouldn't apply to drawbridges. Of course, this information isn't really useful, but a warning on the page would be nice. Actually, I suppose it would make an innovative way of killing off masons. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 05:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
:I just discovered this the hard way, when my mayor / broker / manager / legendary carpenter / only architect attempted to build a floor at the end of a bridge, only to plummet to his watery death in the ocean. Plans have been drawn to drain the ocean into the aquifer in retaliation. ~ [[User:Eidako|Eidako]] 05:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapult. ==

If you have a bridge that raises directionally attached to a lever, and it has retaining walls, and everything is magma-proof, can you fill the retainer with magma, pull the switch... would it throw magma like it throws other objects?
--[[User:Roflcopter!|Roflcopter!]] 22:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
:An easy experiment to try - let us know how it works out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
::I tested with water, it does not get flung but it does get atom smashed. --[[User:winner|winner]] 08:41, 26 September 2009 (PST)

== Deconstruction Scaffold ==

Backstory: my new fort's entrance is accessible only via a bridge over the magma pipe, using two 3x10 raising bridges on the edges and a bunch of constructed floors in the middle (and constructed walls along the edges), and I recently decided to rebuild it with 3x2 raising bridges on the edges and retracting bridges in the middle (for dropping goblins into the magma, or for clearing away magma pumped onto the bridge). In order to do this, though, I would need to deconstruct the existing floors, removing the only path out of my fortress (except for the walled-off back door which I'd rather not reopen), so as a test, I attempted to build a retracting bridge '''over''' the floor and then remove the constructed floors underneath it. Amazingly, it worked, and it even left the building materials sitting directly on top of the bridge rather than falling into the magma pipe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Retracting ...bridgeapult? ==

So my fortress entrance is a bridge over a magma pipe (as described above for "deconstruction scaffold"). When I place items on the center retracting bridge and pull the lever to drop them, they fly '''into the air''' before falling down into the magma, some of them ending up on top of the retaining walls. I suspect that once I finish building a floor over the bridge (about 66% done right now), it'll start behaving properly and simply drop the items straight down into the magma. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

== Bridgeapults forum thread ==

The [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42111.0 bridgeapults] has experiments to test what exactly bridges do
--[[User:winner|winner]] 08:35, 26 September 2009 (PST)

40d Talk:Fluid logic

2009-11-18T07:50:03Z

Petersohn: /* CMOS logic */