Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d:Iron

2008-12-06T04:46:44Z

Navian: Hmm. That was awkward, too.

{{Metal|name=Iron|color=#888|bgcolor=#CCC
|ore=
* [[Hematite]]
* [[Limonite]]
* [[Magnetite]]
|uses=
* Make [[pig iron]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[steel]] at [[smelter]]
* [[weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Armor]]
* [[Anvil]]s
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
|properties=
* [[Magma]] proof
* [[Armor|Block]]% 100
* [[Damage]]% 100
* [[Material value]] 10}}

'''Iron''' bars can be smelted at a [[smelter]] by a dwarf with the [[furnace operating]] labor activated. Iron is a fairly common, naturally occuring metal and can be obtained from [[hematite]], [[magnetite]] and [[limonite]] ores.

Iron is predominantly used to forge [[weapons]] and [[armor]], and its strength is the baseline from which all other metals are judged: [[Steel]] and [[Adamantine]] are more effective, [[Copper]] and [[Bronze]] items less effective. Iron is the most commonly used of the three metals used to forge [[anvil]]s (steel and adamantine are harder to obtain but the anvil does not become more useful). Iron can also be fashioned into objects such as [[coins]], [[furniture]], and [[crafts]], when it is not being used for more practical purposes.

Iron bars can be used to make [[pig iron]], which in turn is used to make [[steel]] bars.

Iron ore is found in [[sedimentary layer]]s and [[igneous extrusive layer]]s. [[Andesite]], [[Basalt]], [[Felsite]], [[Obsidian]], and [[Rhyolite]] layers are igneous extrusive, while [[Sandstone]], [[siltstone]], [[mudstone]], [[shale]], [[claystone]], [[rock salt]], [[limestone]], [[conglomerate]], [[dolomite]], [[flint]], [[chert]], and [[chalk]] layers are sedimentary.

Invading goblins (or humans) often carry iron equipment. After successful [[fortress defense]], liberated arms and armour can be melted into bars. This can be a reliable source of iron even when ore is scarce.

Iron is used in steelmaking at a [[Smelter]], as a part of the follow recipes:

*[[Pig iron]] = Iron + [[Flux]] + [[Coal]]
*[[Steel]] = Iron + [[Pig iron]] + [[Flux]] + [[Coal]]

[[category:metals]]

40d:Iron

2008-12-06T04:42:15Z

Navian: Phew! That was awkward...

{{Metal|name=Iron|color=#888|bgcolor=#CCC
|ore=
* [[Hematite]]
* [[Limonite]]
* [[Magnetite]]
|uses=
* Make [[pig iron]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[steel]] at [[smelter]]
* [[weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Armor]]
* [[Anvil]]s
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
|properties=
* [[Magma]] proof
* [[Armor|Block]]% 100
* [[Damage]]% 100
* [[Material value]] 10}}

'''Iron''' bars can be smelted at a [[smelter]] by a dwarf with the [[furnace operating]] labor activated. Iron is a fairly common, naturally occuring metal and can be obtained from [[hematite]], [[magnetite]] and [[limonite]] ores.

Iron is predominantly used to forge [[weapons]] and [[armor]], which deal or absorb nominal damage, whereas [[copper]] and [[bronze]] items are less effective. Iron is the most commonly used of the three metals used to forge [[anvil]]s (steel and adamantine are harder to obtain but the anvil does not become more useful). Iron can also be fashioned into objects such as [[coins]], [[furniture]], and [[crafts]], when it is not being used for more practical purposes.

Iron bars can be used to make [[pig iron]], which in turn is used to make [[steel]] bars.

Iron ore is found in [[sedimentary layer]]s and [[igneous extrusive layer]]s. [[Andesite]], [[Basalt]], [[Felsite]], [[Obsidian]], and [[Rhyolite]] layers are igneous extrusive, while [[Sandstone]], [[siltstone]], [[mudstone]], [[shale]], [[claystone]], [[rock salt]], [[limestone]], [[conglomerate]], [[dolomite]], [[flint]], [[chert]], and [[chalk]] layers are sedimentary.

Invading goblins (or humans) often carry iron equipment. After successful [[fortress defense]], liberated arms and armour can be melted into bars. This can be a reliable source of iron even when ore is scarce.

Iron is used in steelmaking at a [[Smelter]], as a part of the follow recipes:

*[[Pig iron]] = Iron + [[Flux]] + [[Coal]]
*[[Steel]] = Iron + [[Pig iron]] + [[Flux]] + [[Coal]]

[[category:metals]]

40d:Building designer

2008-11-28T00:34:08Z

Navian: Adding some dash consistency. Didn't see that one!

{{Skill
| color = #848
| skill = Building Designer
| profession = Administrator
| job name = [[Architecture]]
| tasks =
* Construct Building
}}
The '''building designer''' [[skill]] is used in the construction of certain [[building]]s, specifically:

* [[Archery target]]s
* [[Bridge]]s
* All [[furnace]]s
* Paved [[road]]s
* [[Screw pump]]s
* [[Shop]]s
* [[Support]]s
* [[Trade depot]]s
* [[Waterwheel]]s
* [[Well]]s
* [[Windmill]]s

Its corresponding [[labor]] is '''architecture'''. When building structures that require architecture, it is the architect who carries the building materials to the site and clears it of debris. The building is then built in two stages: the first performed by the architect, the second by a [[mason]] (if the building built from [[stone]], stone [[block]]s, or [[glass]] blocks]]); a [[carpenter]] (if it is built from [[log]]s or wood blocks); or a [[metalsmith]] (if it is built from metal [[bar]]s or blocks).

Building a "designed" building grants 30 points of [[experience]] in building designer to the architect and 10 points in mason/carpenter/metalsmith to whoever finishes the structure (this may be the architect as well, if he or she has the appropriate labor enabled). Any of the [[armoring]], [[weaponsmithing]], [[blacksmithing]], or [[metalcrafting]] labors will be used if the building is made of metal, though only metalsmith experience will be granted.

The architectural experience will be awarded at the end of the "designing" stage, but the masonry/etc. experience will be awarded when the dwarf ''begins'' the second stage of building, making it possibly the only task in the game where experience is awarded when it is commenced, not when it is completed.

[[Dwarves]] that have high building designer skills can make [[Quality|masterpiece]] structures, which can give dwarves very happy [[thought]]s from admiring the excellently designed buildings. Designed buildings are the only ones that have a quality (aside from "built" furniture -- tables, statues, doors, etc.) Dismantling a masterwork structure will not cause its creator to [[tantrum]] -- after all, it is the building design that is the masterpiece, not the structure itself.

A relatively easy way to train a [[dwarf]]'s [[architecture]] skill is to place many [[support]]s in a recently mined hall. So long as the architect's [[masonry]] labor is disabled, the architect can use nearby stone to design the supports and gain experience without making a mess. The stone can be immediately reused after cancelling the construction of the supports.

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]

40d:Building designer

2008-11-28T00:33:05Z

Navian: Cool, huh.

{{Skill
| color = #848
| skill = Building Designer
| profession = Administrator
| job name = [[Architecture]]
| tasks =
* Construct Building
}}
The '''building designer''' [[skill]] is used in the construction of certain [[building]]s, specifically:

* [[Archery target]]s
* [[Bridge]]s
* All [[furnace]]s
* Paved [[road]]s
* [[Screw pump]]s
* [[Shop]]s
* [[Support]]s
* [[Trade depot]]s
* [[Waterwheel]]s
* [[Well]]s
* [[Windmill]]s

Its corresponding [[labor]] is '''architecture'''. When building structures that require architecture, it is the architect who carries the building materials to the site and clears it of debris. The building is then built in two stages: the first performed by the architect, the second by a [[mason]] (if the building built from [[stone]], stone [[block]]s, or [[glass]] blocks]]); a [[carpenter]] (if it is built from [[log]]s or wood blocks); or a [[metalsmith]] (if it is built from metal [[bar]]s or blocks).

Building a "designed" building grants 30 points of [[experience]] in building designer to the architect and 10 points in mason/carpenter/metalsmith to whoever finishes the structure (this may be the architect as well, if he or she has the appropriate labor enabled). Any of the [[armoring]], [[weaponsmithing]], [[blacksmithing]], or [[metalcrafting]] labors will be used if the building is made of metal, though only metalsmith experience will be granted.

The architectural experience will be awarded at the end of the "designing" stage, but the masonry/etc. experience will be awarded when the dwarf ''begins'' the second stage of building, making it possibly the only task in the game where experience is awarded when it is commenced, not when it is completed.

[[Dwarves]] that have high building designer skills can make [[Quality|masterpiece]] structures, which can give dwarves very happy [[thought]]s from admiring the excellently designed buildings. Designed buildings are the only ones that have a quality (aside from "built" furniture -- tables, statues, doors, etc.) Dismantling a masterwork structure will not cause its creator to [[tantrum]]--after all, it is the building design that is the masterpiece, not the structure itself.

A relatively easy way to train a [[dwarf]]'s [[architecture]] skill is to place many [[support]]s in a recently mined hall. So long as the architect's [[masonry]] labor is disabled, the architect can use nearby stone to design the supports and gain experience without making a mess. The stone can be immediately reused after cancelling the construction of the supports.

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]

40d Talk:Building designer

2008-11-27T21:56:55Z

Navian: /* Quality of buildings and efficiency */

Do we know how much the skill of the designer and the constructor affect the quality of the building? Does it just average out, or does the materials involved skew the results?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 17:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:Both are listed seperately when the structure is selected on the rooms list. Need to check if there are seperate happy thoughts for high quality design and high quality construction.--[[User:Metalax|Metalax]] 02:11, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::There were in the old .23a release. I say this as the person who disassembled the game and found all of the thoughts. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 01:07, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== What buildings need design? ==

Is there a definitive list of what structures need an architect? There should be a list either here or on the [[architect]] page.--[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 00:58, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

== Quality of buildings and efficiency ==
Does the quality of a building affects its efficiency? For instance, is it faster to smelt ores at a masterpiece furnace ? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 11:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nope. [[Thought|admiration]] bonus only.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:19, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::"Efficiency? ''Efficiency''? Philistine! My furnace is a work of ''ART''!" -- Urist Thikutud, Architect (--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:56, 27 November 2008 (EST))

40d Talk:Strange mood

2008-11-27T05:05:29Z

Navian: /* Order of stuff */

Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2008-11-27T04:43:00Z

Navian: /* Order of stuff */ Oops.

40d Talk:Strange mood

2008-11-27T04:40:46Z

Navian: /* Order of stuff */

Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Skill

2008-11-27T00:10:13Z

Navian: /* List of fortress mode skills */ Moved 'thrower' and made an 'other skills' category, as having it with the military skills is misleading... technically it's a 'tantrum skill'

The '''skill''' a person has in an area determines how well that person accomplishes tasks in that area. Skills increase in rank with [[experience]]: every time a person completes a task successfully, the corresponding skill will increase by an amount of experience points (XP). Once the XP reach the amount required for the next level, the rank will increase.

The highest skill or skills of a [[dwarf]] determines their [[jobs|profession]].

== Skill ranks ==

To reach Novice level in any skill requires 500 XP. Reaching each successive level requires an additional 100 XP, so to go from Novice to ''No label'' requires 600 XP; ''No label'' to Competent requires 700 XP, and so on. The following figures are the ''cumulative'' XP needed to go from unskilled to any given skill level.

Although [[Legendary]] is the highest skill level displayed, there are actually five skill levels above it. These higher skill levels are known to have an effect on [[item quality]]; a Legendary dwarf will make masterpiece items 15% of the time, on average, where a Legendary+5 dwarf will make masterpieces 27% of the time (and exceptional items the other 73% of the time). Skill beyond Legendary+5 does not increase the probability of creating a masterpiece item.

You can't find out exactly when a dwarf gets to Legendary+5, but it will happen 1000 XP before their eighth [[attribute]] if they have no other skills -- so when they get eight attributes, they are at Legendary+5. Although skill is capped at Legendary+5, experience is not capped at any level; a dwarf can keep gaining attributes by using a skill that has long since topped out.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0"
|-
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Dabbling || align="right" | 1
|-
| Novice || align="right" | 500
|-
| ''No label'' || align="right" | 1100
|-
| Competent || align="right" | 1800
|-
| Skilled || align="right" | 2600
|-
| Proficient || align="right" | 3500
|-
| Talented || align="right" | 4500
|}
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Adept || align="right" | 5600
|-
| Expert || align="right" | 6800
|-
| Professional || align="right" | 8100
|-
| Accomplished || align="right" | 9500
|-
| Great || align="right" | 11000
|-
| Master || align="right" | 12600
|-
| High Master || align="right" | 14300
|}
| width="33%" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Grand Master || align="right" | 16100
|-
| Legendary || align="right" | 18000
|-
| Legendary+1 || align="right" | 20000
|-
| Legendary+2 || align="right" | 22100
|-
| Legendary+3 || align="right" | 24300
|-
| Legendary+4 || align="right" | 26600
|-
| Legendary+5 || align="right" | 29000
|}
|}

== List of fortress mode skills ==

The following list of skills is grouped by the professions they fall in. Each skill has a corresponding [[labor]] which is usually named similarly. There are several notable exceptions, however, namely:

{| {{prettytable}}
|-
! Skill !! Labor
|-
| Ambusher || Hunting
|-
| Bowyer || Crossbow-making
|-
| Building designer || Architecture
|-
| Engraver || Stone detailing
|-
| Grower || Farming (fields)
|-
| Herbalist || Plant gathering
|-
| Metalsmith || Blacksmithing
|-
| Thresher || Plant processing
|}

"Professions" determine only the color of the [[dwarf]] and their profession name if you haven't set it yourself.

{| style="margin: 0 auto"
|-
| valign='top' |

{{Skill Box|Miner|#bbb|#bbb|
* [[Miner]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Woodworker|#ff2|#ff6|
* [[Bowyer]]
* [[Carpenter]]
* [[Wood cutter]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Stoneworker|#fff|#fff|
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Mason]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Ranger|#282|#484|
* [[Ambusher]]
* [[Animal caretaker]]
* [[Animal dissector]]
* [[Animal trainer]]
* [[Trapper]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Metalsmith|#888|#888|
* [[Armorsmith]]
* [[Furnace operator]]
* [[Metal crafter]]
* [[Metalsmith]]
* [[Weaponsmith]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Jeweler|#2f2|#6f6|
* [[Gem cutter]]
* [[Gem setter]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Craftsdwarf|#22f|#66f|
* [[Bone carver]]
* [[Clothier]]
* [[Glassmaker]]
* [[Leatherworker]]
* [[Stone crafter]]
* [[Weaver]]
* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Strand extractor]]
}}

| valign='top' |

{{Skill Box|Administrator|#828|#848|
* [[Appraiser]]
* [[Building designer]]
* [[Organizer]]
* [[Record keeper]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Fishery Worker|#228|#448|
* [[Fish cleaner]]
* [[Fish dissector]]
* [[Fisherdwarf]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Farmer|#882|#884|
* [[Brewer]]
* [[Butcher]]
* [[Cheese maker]]
* [[Cook]]
* [[Dyer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Herbalist]]
* [[Lye maker]]
* [[Milker]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Potash maker]]
* [[Soaper]]
* [[Tanner]]
* [[Thresher]]
* [[Wood burner]]
}}

{{Skill Box|Engineer|#f22|#f66|
* [[Mechanic]]
* [[Pump operator]]
* [[Siege engineer]]
* [[Siege operator]]
}}

| valign='top' |

{{Skill Box|''No profession''|#288|#488|

''Military skills''
* [[Armor user]]
* [[Axedwarf]]
* [[Hammerdwarf]]
* [[Macedwarf]]
* [[Marksdwarf]]
* [[Shield user]]
* [[Speardwarf]]
* [[Swordsdwarf]]
* [[Wrestler]]

''Social skills''
* [[Comedian]]
* [[Consoler]]
* [[Conversationalist]]
* [[Flatterer]]
* [[Intimidator]]
* [[Judge of intent]]
* [[Liar]]
* [[Negotiator]]
* [[Pacifier]]
* [[Persuader]]

''Other skills''
* [[Swimmer]]
* [[Thrower]]
}}

|}

== Job Management ==
To view a list of every [[dwarf]] and significant creature ([[Elf]], [[Goblin]], [[dog]], livestock, etc.) and the job they are currently performing, press {{k|u}} and from there, if you want to order specific jobs to be done in bigger amounts, press {{k|m}}. You can order up to 30 of single job from the manager screen. To see a list of all jobs and [[dwarves]] doing them press {{k|j}}.

[[Category:Skills|*]]

40d Talk:Block

2008-11-26T23:58:44Z

Navian: /* Ice blocks */

Actually the values are off. the base value of wood is 1. But a piece of wood has a value multiplier of 3. And a block a multiplier of 5. Should I add this, this might confuse newbies. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 10:02, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Raw value, shape modifier, resultant value? I think people can cope with that. --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 10:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Quote:
but the difference is purely in the value
My observations suggest that when marking economic stone as green, dwarves can build of it, but blocks are still ignored. Hellzon or irc said blocks can only be used to build buildings, wells and pumps. So that would make the above statement false. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 12:47, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:You can build walls and buildings out of blocks and stone (some buildings require blocks) but I don't think you can craft blocks. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 15:19, 15 December 2007 (EST)

Quote:
This doesn't apply to blocks made out of metals.
Why is that? in my experience it's working just fine (golden blocks worth 150, copper blocks worth 10... just as they should)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Naming ==

Does "block" ever occur in the singular in Dwarf Fortress? I think [[block]] should redirect to [[blocks]], rather than vice versa. --[[User:JT|JT]] 13:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:Seconded. You make rock blocks, metal blocks, wooden blocks and glass blocks. A bunch of blocks, a pile of blocks, you name it yourself. The game always call one unit of them as "blocks"--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

::Rule N says that it should be called "Block," and is there really any actual problem with it? ''Not'' doing it, on the other hand, could confuse wiki-newbies. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Construction ==

Does making a construction out of blocks instead of raw stone allow the construction to go faster? (I'm thinking along the lines that it's easier to work with bricks and mortar than raw stone and mortar) [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] 22:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
: i dont know, it should, you would think, but mabey the time makeing the blosk is greater than the time saved?

: As far as I can tell from experimentation, making constructions with blocks rather than raw stone simply increases the value of the architecture (which pleases dwarves and attracts immigrants). It is far slower, due to the additional time required to carve the blocks. [[User:Iituem|Iituem]] 11:43, 29 July 2008 (GMT)

::Well, yeah, it's slower ''that'' way - the question is, is it faster if you already have blocks? (i.e. have your mason turning out blocks while you've not yet thought of what constructions to have built; will it be faster to turn those into a construction?) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 14:04, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, since blocks can be stored in bins you can save a whole lot of hauling time when building with them. I don't think it speeds up the actual build though.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:36, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll second that, I've been building quite a castle (about 120x120 at the max size) and am 2k blocks in so far. Switching replacing stone from block appears to have no effect on the speed of construction, although masonry (I *think*) appears to make it go faster. The hauling time is nothing to sneeze at though, having them drag the blocks to a central distribution area really speeds up the work.--Gotthard 22:05, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Ice blocks ==

Is it possible to make ice blocks? --[[User:Locolan|locolan]] 02:28, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:I don't think so, any more than it's possible to create ice statues or furniture from ice. Only stone, metal, and glass can be turned into blocks, and water, even frozen water, is none of the above. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:13, 19 November 2008 (EST)
::Ice is treated as a stone when mined. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:45, 26 November 2008 (EST)
:::If you forbid all normal stone and make orders at the mason's shop, your mason cancels them claiming he 'needs access to non-economic stone'. So Ice can not be used to make blocks. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:44, 26 November 2008 (EST)
::::Ice isn't in the raws as a stone type. If it were, it'd have to show up in stone layers, instead of places where it actually made sense, which could cause problems if it melted. Being inaccessible in the raws basically amounts to being unable to make anything out of it, even if it's treated as a stone otherwise. Ice also shows up as a 'glob' if it melts and refreezes, or if it forms from freezing water carried in a bucket or waterskin, so it's treated like other such materials there, too. You can't melt ice into metal bars, though, so it's totally useless in that state, again.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 18:58, 26 November 2008 (EST)

==Parry==
I don't have the wiki know-how, but perhaps someone should add one of those little things at the top giving people the link to parrying and shields page, just fpr the sake of newbies--- Mr.Dwarf

==Blocks -> Stone==
Yes, I did just accidentally cause a small lava flood onto my block pile, why do you ask? Anyway, some curious notes:

1) It is possible to achieve this with a wooden bin, but don't count on it. You'll have to apply enough heat to melt the blocks without the bin being totally destroyed - Seeing as I just lost ~40 bins of blocks and only have 1 wooden bin which managed to achieve this, I wouldn't count on it.

2) molten stone, and hardened stone that was formerly molten, have no value when looked at with 'k'. I am not sure if one can craft or build with them.

3) It is unclear whether a dwarf can pick up the undamaged metal bin with molten stone in it - do metal objects have a heat parameter? If you can, is it possible to trade molten stone to traders - will they light on fire when you do so?

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:59, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Quite an interesting discovery. To answer #2, why don't you plunk down a mason's shop nearby and see if the stone gets used?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Bone

2008-11-26T22:48:41Z

Navian: /* Origin of bones */

== Underground bones ==

I'm pretty sure bone in refuse piles underground lasts a LOT longer, if not indefinitely. This makes it helpful to have one place above ground that accepts everything, and then another underground that only collects bones for carving. Can anyone verify this? I don't want to put this information in the article in case it just SEEMS like a lot longer to me because my games run at 10fps. --Gotthard 08:56, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:I use that underground refuse for bones,skulls and shells and never saw any bone to dissapear on any 'underground' tile in at least 8 years. A refuse pile is not needed (except to actually deliver the bones there in the first place). 'Inside' but 'above ground' refuse stockpiles don't help bones to last longer at all.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:47, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I tried an experiment with keeping bones "inside", and [[forbidden|forbade]] some turtle bones in my outside refuse pile, which I then built a roof over. Those bones persisted long after other bones, shells and vermin corpses had disappeared. ''However'', I've just reloaded that game and the turtle bones are no longer there. They certainly lasted from mid-winter to mid-spring though.
:: So in conclusion: Either or both of being "inside" or forbidden makes bones last longer; There is the possibility that such bones will disappear on reloading the game. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:03, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

== Severed limbs ==

:AFAIK, all refuse left above ground disappear at season changes (at least bones/shells/chunks, not sure about the limbs and corpses)
I'm interested in following - how much bones will the corpse leave, if it lacks limbs. It seems to me, that a goblin corpse will generate 6 bone stack in any case. In this case: you kill a goblin - you get 6 bones, but if you tear his legs before killing him, you'll get two bones for legs, and six for body. Can anyone verify and clear this out?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:17, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:From experience in past forts, I seem to remember each limb loss reduced the "main" stack by one.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)
::In my current fort, I just had a bunch of goblins met a bunch of *large steel serrated disks*, so I had a LOT of limbs and a LOT of corpses. Some time passed. I have a LOT of "goblin bone"s and a LOT of "goblin bone[6]"s. not a single "goblin bone[2]" (or [3/4/5]). Will investigate further, cause they could be just stripped of ALL their bones >;)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::Made some tests: dropped kittens from very high. Result is always a corpse, four legs, head and tail. after rotting they leave 5 separate bones, two in a stack (body), and, strangely, no skull (no idea why, maybe bug). So, that's a way to farm bones!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:10, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== butcher goblins ==
Does butchering goblin or elven corpses work? I also failed to butcher the corpse of a cat killed by goblins though it was right next to the butcher and the horse next to it was butchered (the cat was a pet). --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:17, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Depending on the creature tags, some creatures cannot be butchered, and pet-like creatures usually can only be butchered live. If they die in battle they cannot be butchered (but you can still use the bones after they rot). --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:02, 29 February 2008 (EST)
::Well, that exactly fits my experience - should we put a note in the article? Saves all the hauling of goblins and ''accidently'' died elves ;). They also rot faster outside..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:23, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Dwarven Bones ==
Is it possible to use dwarven bones for any kind of crafting? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:30, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:If you edit the raws. Otherwise, if you get a fell mood. Otherwise, nope. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:13, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::Yeah, I think I'll modify the code. I think it makes sense if you use dwarven bones to make weapons; I mean come on, they're already dead so that harm is already done. Besides, dwarves don't care about using goblin bones, so why not dwarf bones?! :) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:08, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Anyone know what I need to modify in order to allow dwarf bones to be used in boneworking? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:52, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== crossbows ==

The [[crossbow]] page seems certain that the material of a crossbow only affects damage output if it's being used as a hammer. Bolts are affected as by material.
--[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 11:55, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:The [[crossbow]] page is right. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:13, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== bonecarn ==

I don't see this ever coming up in normal unmodded gameplay, but can creatures with the [BONECARN] tag eat things(armor, bolts, crafts) made from bone?

:I don't think so. I'd imagine that anything made out of bone is a seperate kind of item, and so not edible. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:49, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bone Value List ==

Having a listing of notable bone type values here would be pretty convenient, if it can be set up. Or does it exist somewhere else and it either isn't linked from the Bone page or I missed it somehow? - [[User:E-mouse|E-mouse]] 20:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fish bones? ==

Do bones come from fish or not? Will I still get the bones if I cook the fish? Also, how do pearls work? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 16:21, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish, when eaten, will leave behind one bone. Cooking will destroy the bones, which I feel is a bug. I believe pearls are not yet implemented.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:53, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish ''meat'', however, leaves behind nothing. (The traders sometimes sell it -- for instance, "longnose gar meat", as distinct from "longnose gar".) And raw fish ("raw longnose gar") can't be eaten until it's cleaned at a fishery.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:56, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Origin of bones ==
It's not entirely clear where bones come from. I know they come from corpses and severed limbs. I don't know whether they come from chunks or remains. It would be great if this information was put here as well as under the Refuse page. (For the record--I think remains is just things like rats, and I think they never drop bones, right? That would mean that if you want to make a 'rot stuff into bones' stockpile, you want a refuse stockpile with all corpses and all body parts but *NO* Item Types?) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:34, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:You are correct - bones come only from corpses, severed body parts, and the eating of things such as turtle. Chunks are mainly flesh with little to no bone, so yeah. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:45, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::Roght. Add fish and raw fish from 'item types' and you're set. Chunks are produced from butchery as waste, at the same time this produces bones (so 'meat' has no bones, either). --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:48, 26 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Clothing

2008-11-26T22:39:22Z

Navian: /* Coats Anyone? */

== masterpiece disentigration ==
Does masterpiece clothing disentigration still cause the maker to get all pissy over it?

If so, then it needs to be added to the article. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:31, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I've seen a few artifact articles of clothes in the game, but I have never seen anyone wear them. It could be that the game avoids this question. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 20:24, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== mass-produce? discard old clothes? ==
I would like to see something on which clothes players should mass-produce to keep their dwarves happy. I'm really not sure myself. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:37, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: I second this request. Do dwarves automatically discard old clothes? It seems that my dwarves are buying new clothes at the stores, but then they still wear there old rotting trousers. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::In my experience they would discard old socks and boots, but will wear a dosen rotting dresses at once. Maybe some inv slots have limit on the clothes number, and some not? [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I recall a post on the forums that said it's best not to produce clothing at all, and start a dwarven nudist colony. That method is a simple solution that prevents unhappy thoughts from accumulating. I don't think it maximizes happiness, though, as Dwarves get happy thoughts from making satisfying acquisitions. [[User:Non|Non]] 03:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:: No good idea. Not having clothes gives an unhappy thought for every separate piece of clothes missing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::not so. dwarves get(used to, removed this version) an unhappy thought for LOSING each piece of clothing, but once its gone(or if they started with none) there is no unhappy thought. they are perfectly fine and happy being naked, once the sadness of rotting clothes wears off --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::: I once had the thought "XY was embarrassed to have no shirt lately". cant swear if he had one before that thought or not, but dont rotting clothes give a different thought "emb. about...clothes rot away"? It still might be that he gets that thought only once. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Artifact Cave Spider Silk Thong ==

All right, given that you probably ''are'' going to make exotic underwear with cave spider silk... couldn't it at least be something that the dwarf who made it was going to ''wear'' rather than something which is rare for humans?

Oh well, when my clothier passes over I will have something fantastic to sell which is also very light I guess![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:47, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Why bother? ==

Am I missing something? Is there any reason at all to provide new clothes for dwarfs? --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 09:27, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:You mean other than the fact that if old clothes start to rot the dwarf wearing said clothing gets an unhappy thought? I highly doubt that's been removed since the last version I was semi-familiar with. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 13:52, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Ah. Well, I built a HUGE dining room. Its taken two years to fully smooth it, but now any dwarf who eats instantly becomes either ecstatic, happy, or, if they're whole family was killed and they had to sleep on the ground by the rotting corpses, they might just be content. Wow, writing that once again reminded me how totally R rated this game would be if it were 3d. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::BDR- it was taken out in the latest release because of problems. Once it works right, Toady said he was going to bring it back, but for the current version and immediate future, clothes are just a waste of effort.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 16:36, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::: Here I have a massive clothing industry sitting idle, unemployed dyers starting fights, and dear Toady is off figuring out how many ribs dwarves have and whether skin can be flayed. My civilization yearns to be built on green silk cravats, not the torturer's arts. :) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 17:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, there's still the awesome value of having your dwarves swank around in fancy clothes. Plus adamantine clothes provide more protection than most pieces of more conventionally-manufactured plate-level armour if I'm not mistaken, which might prove worthwhile if you happen to strike adamantine and only have legendary clothiers.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:40, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Hahaha, I have to note here that there is one very, very practical reason to give your dwarves clothes: If it's cold and they have body parts exposed, they will freeze, and the nerve damage from this is permanent. My glacial fortress suffers from chronic brainfreeze epidemics in babies and soldiers, and they don't even get to eat any ice cream. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:45, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Frequency ratings ==
How common is common? It seems like every goblin invasion has had about 4 or 5 iron masks, about 50% of goblins, so it doesn't seem like they are that uncommon. Is this on the threshold of uncommon? Do others get this many masks? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:11, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I've been playing for a couple months, and I've never seen one. So, uh, maybe it's something to do with the specific culture of the goblin civilization that's attacking you. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:01, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::That would make sense, I might start a new fortress else where, and see if I get as many. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Separating ==

Is there anyway to separate dwarf-sized clothing from goblin & kobold sized clothing? I've been messing with my stockpiles, but can't seem to sort them out. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:14, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I've been working under the assumption that the {{key|u}} usable and {{key|j}} unusable toggles on many of the stockpile pages provide this functionality. I ''think'' it works, but I generally don't really pay that much attention to such matters... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 11:59, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Clothing appears to be sorted as a "finished good" though, which doesn't have those toggles. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:56, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

==Coats Anyone?==
I can't seem to make coats in the latest version (.40d) in either clothiers or leatherworkers, and I haven't seen a dwarf start with a coat in this version yet. Anyone know what's going on? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:36, 25 November 2008 (EST)

:I've had no problem with that in 40d. They wear coats when they arrive (unless they're wearing a robe instead), I can produce them, and they'll put on new coats if their coat or robe wears out.

:There used to be a note somewhere that not all forts/civs can produce the same clothing. Maybe that's what's at work?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:02, 25 November 2008 (EST)

::The possible types of clothing for civs are in the entity_default.txt file, and are selected for each individual civ (or site, even, not sure) in that 'finalizing uniforms' step near the end of world gen. I'm not sure if the climate of the civilization's cities has any effect on this determination, but they definitely will have a limited selection instead of being able to make anything on the entity_default list. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:39, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Bloodline:Boatmurdered

2008-11-26T22:02:25Z

Navian: Rewrote, and changed the link to go directly to the introduction instead of the index page... I kind of felt the original wording spoiled and cheapened it too much.

'''Boatmurdered''' was a succession game on the Something Awful forums. From this spawned an epic tale, incorporating hordes of belligerent elephants, floods of biblical proportions, flaming puppies, and more.

The entire saga can be read [http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/intro.html here]. As the editor says, the madness surrounding Boatmurdered speaks for itself.

40d:Channel

2008-11-24T19:47:15Z

Navian: /* Creating channels */ Added the 'big crunch' suggestion

A '''channel''' is a hole dug in the ground or wall which will mine out the [[z-level]] below too. You can use long channels to act as [[moat]]s, to move liquids such as [[water]] and [[magma]] from one point to another, and other creative purposes. With this option it is possible to either select floor tiles or 'full' tiles. When channeled out, the floor (as well as a wall if it exists) on your layer will be removed and the tile on the layer below will be [[mine]]d out. Creating a channel could be described as "strip mining".

In layman's terms: mining an area will carve out a tunnel in the rock to crawl through, whereas channelling an area will also remove the bottom of that tunnel and make a second tunnel one level below, creating a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench Trench] of sorts.

Because it has the potential of removing two layers of wall and one of floor, channeling has the potential to be the fastest mining method. However, be careful to ensure that multiple [[miner]]s working on the same channel don't undermine each other, causing them to fall through to the tile below. If this happens you may need to build a [[stair]] or a [[ramp]] in order for the fallen miner to escape.

==Creating channels==

Open the {{k|d}}esignation menu and select c{{k|h}}annel. Mark out the area you want to create as a channel - be careful to check the z-level below too! When building channels diagonally, a single line is enough - water, like [[creatures]], moves in all 8 directions (+ z-axis).

The channel designation can be used to dig upwards. If a square is designated to be channeled and the z-level below has either a ramp or upward stair the miner will stand on that and remove the roof. In the same manner, designating channels over existing downward [[stairs]] will make the dwarves remove the staircase.

Designating a channel on the level underneath an existing channel is the way to dig deep pits or [[well]] shafts. Designating an adjacent up/down staircase is the easiest way to give access to the [[miner]] who will dig the shaft.

To swiftly channel out large areas multiple Z-levels deep, the fastest way is to designate the entire area as up/down staircases. After the staircases are dug out, designate the entire top Z-level for channeling, and repeat for subsequent levels once the upper ones are completely emptied. Once all areas are channeled, designate the bottom level for Remove Up Stairs. You may consider leaving a single column of stairs leading back to the surface, removing it the same way once you're done, to aid miner access; in any case, this method requires that you give your miners a way out of the bottom level once they've finished.

If the area you wish to channel is many Z-levels deep, it can be more efficient to build a [[construction]] shaped like the hole you would like to create on top of a support at the highest level. If the [[support]] is linked to a [[lever]], and the lever is pulled, the constructions will fall through every floor until hitting solid material. Be sure to keep dwarves and valuable items clear of the falling debris.

==Using channels==

Creatures cannot pass over open channels but you can build [[floor]]s, [[bridges]], [[hatch cover]]s, or place floor [[grate]]s on top of channels. Grates will allow fluids to pass through.

To move liquids simply connect one end of the channel to the liquid source, and the other to your desired destination. You will probably want to leave digging through the last square prior to the liquid until all your [[floodgate]]s etc. are finished. An unexpected [[flood]] can set your [[fortress]] back several [[season]]s.

Be careful when tapping into a [[aquifer|reservoir]], such as the bottom of a [[lake]], since the [[pressure]] head will cause the water to overtop the sides of the channel. Magma will not do this.

{{Water FAQ}}
{{Magma FAQ}}
[[category:designations]]

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-11-23T16:29:24Z

Navian: /* Genesis */

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]

:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

~LrZeph~

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind

~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
..
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
>^
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:
| /
| /
| /
|/
|\
| \
| \
| \
:Or:
| /
| /
| /
|/___
| /
| /
| /
|/___
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Agoraphobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)

==Genesis==
Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves.

::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.

::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.

::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Unconscious

2008-11-23T16:21:53Z

Navian: /* Crazy Narcoleptic Dwarf */

==Crazy Narcoleptic Dwarf==
I have this one dwarf who fell unconscious a lot while hunting yet somehow never died (saw her struggle back to life while a wolf was gnawing on her face and then woke up to kill the wolf)... since then I've taken her off hunting and she is constantly falling unconscious just doing mundane stuff like hauling stone. What gives? --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 03:39, 23 November 2008 (EST)

She's either poisoned or has missing eyes/limbs, I'd wager. I had a blind wrestler who had that problem. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:21, 23 November 2008 (EST)

User talk:Dog of Rhy

2008-11-23T04:57:22Z

Navian: /* Adventurer Mode: */

== Adventurer Mode: ==

Been playing adventurer mode for a bit and I diecided that I should start writing down all the odd things that have happened to me and my loyal band of Elves (no one else wants to be in my group...)

Today while I was returning to the capital I ran into a very unlucky pack of Wolves. Especially this first one.

You bash the Wolf in the head with your Iron Mace!

It is broken!

The Wolf has been stunned!

The Wolf's brain is broken!

The Wolf falls over.

The Wolf vomits.

The Wolf misses you!

You counterstrike!

You bash the Wolf in the lower body with your Iron Mace!

It explodes in gore!

The Wolf is propelled away by the force of the blow!

The Wolf slams into an obstacle!

The Wolf is struck down.

Yeah it really sucked to be that Wolf. (also the Wolf vomited but managed to missed me... so was it trying to shoot me with it's vomit?)

'''Wolf Exploding'''

It seems that there are only a few creatures in my world to fight. Wolves are nearly the only creature to appear and attack me! Ohh well it makes a fun sport, Wolf Exploding it's the next big thing!

You bash the Wolf in the head with your Iron Mace!

It is smashed into the body, an recognizable mass!

The Wolf is propelled away by the force of the blow!

The Wolf slams into an obstacle!

The lower body is battered!

The left front leg is battered!

The lower body is mangled!

The left rear leg is battered!

The left front leg is mangled!

The lower body explodes in gore!

The right front leg is mangled!

The left rear leg is mangled!

The lower body explodes in gore!

The upper body is battered!

The left rear leg is mangled!

The Wolf is struck down.

No shit!!!

Now this happened quite randomly to me but the wierdest thing is that the Wolf attacked me when it was dead... now believe me I'am not making any of this up.

You bash the Wolf in the upper body with your Iron Mace!

It collapses into a lump of gore!

The Wolf is propelled away by the force of the blow!

The Wolf slams into an obstacle!

The left rear leg is bruised!

The left rear leg is battered!

The left rear leg is broken!

The upper body collapses into a lump of gore!

The head is smashed into an unrecognizable mass!

The left front leg is bruised!

The lower body is bruised!

The head is smashed into the body an unrecognizable mass!

The Wolf has been struck down.

The Wolf falls over.

The Wolf misses You!

You counterstrike!

You bash the Wolf in the lower body with your Iron Mace!

It is battered!

The Wolf's pancreas has been bruised!

The Wolf's left kidney has been badly bruised!

Ahhh undead Wolf!!! (Don't worry I vanquished the beast... It doesn't have a head any more and I think it flew of a cliff just to make sure!)

:(I think you meant to put this on your user page?) There were probably two wolves on the same tile, one prone and one standing. What creatures you run into while moving around the map depend on the climate, mostly. Evil and savage areas in particular can have exotic things, though. Also, if you make a world with an earlier end year, there will be more crazy stuff still around, though you'll still have to go in caves to find it. I had a dwarven king ask me to go slay a dragon, once. I... never got around to it, really... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Activity zone

2008-11-23T01:40:09Z

Navian: /* Deadly Animal Pits */ Oops. Again.

==Undumpable: belongings of dead dwarves==
Has anyone else noticed that when a dwarf dies and leaves behind all his items on the floor of your fortress, you can designate them for dumping but the dwarves never come and dump them? Is there any way to get rid of these? I also noticed dwarves never seem to dump damaged items (items that have an x in their name). ----[[User:Hyperbox|Hyperbox]] 04:29, 21 August 2008 (EST)
:I don't think dwarves will dump items with ownership flags, so that's why your dwarves never seem to dump damaged items. I think they need to replace them first. In the case of death, though, my experience has been that the items get de-owned on death and the other dwarves come strip the body. If you do {{k|o}}rders & choose {{k|F}}orbid, there are some settings about whether items are forbidden upon death, but I think they default to mostly-permissive, so unless your settings got changed that shouldn't be affecting you, either. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:41, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
::I'm thinking that the [[dwarven economy]] might throw another yet wrench into this system. Since my economy started, my dwarves have refused to dump ''any'' clothing items, including narrow clothing. I'm wondering whether it's because dwarves won't dump anything they might be able to sell. Bless their capitalist little hearts, but it's extremely frustrating. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 21:42, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

==Proposed move==
should this page be moved to the singluar title "Activity zone" ?
(unsigned/unknown [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT))

==Force drinking location==
Any advice how to get dwarves really drink where I want them?
I have one space water supply zone at the end of channel so the zone is above the floodgate) and then I have another 12 space zone around a little pond.. still all the dwarves run all the way to the brook for drink. (..yea yea, I know, I need booze. sorry for beeing slow)
--Shiona
:under the orders menu, along with the only farmers harvest and refuse type orders, there is an option for zones, under that submenu you can say 'prefer to drink/fish at zone' 'only drink/fish at zone' which might be what you need. Also make sure you are setting the zones to a type and not just designating them. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Vertigo when filling ponds?==
This is not really related to zones, but I have a pond my dwarves are filling, which is three levels deep. They seem to be suffering from extreme vertigo; they keep filling a bucket, dumping it in, and then staggering away stunned and nauseous. There's vomit ''all over'' my pond now.
- [[User:Clockwork|Clockwork]] 19:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:That sounds like cave adjustment to me. When's the last time they've been outside before that problem arose? If dwarves spend too long underground, they'll get accustomed to it, to the point that being hit by sunlight again will give them the exact symptoms you just described. The pond has nothing to do with it, aside from the fact that they're outside while filling it. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 22:42, 18 November 2007 (EST)

==Inappropriate building?==
I have designated a pond inside my fort in an attempt to get some floors muddy for farming. However, I keep getting the message: so and so cancels Fill Pond: Inappropriate building. Any hints as to what I am doing wrong?
- [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 07:03, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

: IIRC Dwarves will only pour water into a pit; ie. an empty space. If you want to make a floor muddy, you need to mark a pond on the z-level above it. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:41, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Garbage dump ==
The following sentence is self contradicting. "Each ground tile within that zone is considered a garbage dump tile; thus, if you want to place a single-tile zone, place the zone onto a ground tile (optionally adjacent to a cliff or pit), not onto an open space." It needs correcting, one way or the other. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 04:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

==Wiki style question==
while reading articles in this wiki, i sometimes see keyboard keys described as being "pushed" (for example, under Construction in [[Well]]), sometimes as being "used" (link) and sometimes just Shortcut {{k|w}} (for example, [[Dump]]). can i use any of these in articles that i wish to add to the wiki? -[[User:Anachron|Anachron]]
:There is a lack of consistency. Fix it all! or adopt the (non)standard that already exists... the real answer is see the [[rule]]s. If it's not covered and you think it should be.... work out where it should go![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

==Animal pits==
Is this how I am meant to keep all my herd animals in the same place (I'd prefer not to cage them, I don't know why...)? Are they gonna get hurt when I drop them down a z-level?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:Now I think I have an issue that...
::I have a passage leading to a channel. The channel and one floor tile before it are my pit zones.
::Below that is a room with a s-bend corridor with several doors marked "Passable" (ie not passable to pets).
:It seems that my dwarves want to drop an animal into the pit. Then go downstairs, pick it up, and do it again.
:I am confused![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
===After a night of sleep===
Alright. I now have an animal pit activity zone. Below it is a room with an S-bend corridor with three doors marked '''Passable''' (for dwarves only).
There are "several" animals in the pit.
My question: When I {{k|i}} on the zone, then {{k|P}}, does it show me the animals who have already been put in the pit or not? I would have thought it would be like a cage, showing all animals but putting a special character next to the ones already in the pit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:01, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

::Unfortunately there is no way to tell if an animal has been placed in a pit. So when you assign animals to a pit, it is a one-shot thing only - a dwarf will pit the animal, then there will be no indication that the animal is there the next time you look at the list. It would be nice if we could designate areas as pits, where the areas would act as 'stockpiles' or 'cages' that track which animals are in them.[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:46, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Deadly Animal Pits==
I'm surprised I'm not seeing anyone talking about this, but when I saw that you could put animals in pits the first thing I thought about was filling it with snakes, lions, maybe a dragon or two, and having that be what the unlucky goblins who fall into when the get dropped down from your drawbridge trap. --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:31, 22 November 2008 (EST)

*Adding onto that... how about making ponds and filling them with your own fish to start some kind of fish pond or something? --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:32, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, that makes sense! I always thought that was what ponds were for, before I figured out you could do other things with them, too. I'd be careful with the dragon pits, though. Even tame ones are very indiscriminate when breathing fire on their foes. (Currently I'm using a race that I gave dragonfirebreath. First thing that happened when zombies attacked was they lit up the zombies, the wagon and all the supplies, and the clothes their friends were wearing. I changed the race's ignite point after that.) --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 20:38, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Activity zone

2008-11-23T01:38:46Z

Navian: /* Deadly Animal Pits */

==Undumpable: belongings of dead dwarves==
Has anyone else noticed that when a dwarf dies and leaves behind all his items on the floor of your fortress, you can designate them for dumping but the dwarves never come and dump them? Is there any way to get rid of these? I also noticed dwarves never seem to dump damaged items (items that have an x in their name). ----[[User:Hyperbox|Hyperbox]] 04:29, 21 August 2008 (EST)
:I don't think dwarves will dump items with ownership flags, so that's why your dwarves never seem to dump damaged items. I think they need to replace them first. In the case of death, though, my experience has been that the items get de-owned on death and the other dwarves come strip the body. If you do {{k|o}}rders & choose {{k|F}}orbid, there are some settings about whether items are forbidden upon death, but I think they default to mostly-permissive, so unless your settings got changed that shouldn't be affecting you, either. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:41, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
::I'm thinking that the [[dwarven economy]] might throw another yet wrench into this system. Since my economy started, my dwarves have refused to dump ''any'' clothing items, including narrow clothing. I'm wondering whether it's because dwarves won't dump anything they might be able to sell. Bless their capitalist little hearts, but it's extremely frustrating. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 21:42, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

==Proposed move==
should this page be moved to the singluar title "Activity zone" ?
(unsigned/unknown [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT))

==Force drinking location==
Any advice how to get dwarves really drink where I want them?
I have one space water supply zone at the end of channel so the zone is above the floodgate) and then I have another 12 space zone around a little pond.. still all the dwarves run all the way to the brook for drink. (..yea yea, I know, I need booze. sorry for beeing slow)
--Shiona
:under the orders menu, along with the only farmers harvest and refuse type orders, there is an option for zones, under that submenu you can say 'prefer to drink/fish at zone' 'only drink/fish at zone' which might be what you need. Also make sure you are setting the zones to a type and not just designating them. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Vertigo when filling ponds?==
This is not really related to zones, but I have a pond my dwarves are filling, which is three levels deep. They seem to be suffering from extreme vertigo; they keep filling a bucket, dumping it in, and then staggering away stunned and nauseous. There's vomit ''all over'' my pond now.
- [[User:Clockwork|Clockwork]] 19:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:That sounds like cave adjustment to me. When's the last time they've been outside before that problem arose? If dwarves spend too long underground, they'll get accustomed to it, to the point that being hit by sunlight again will give them the exact symptoms you just described. The pond has nothing to do with it, aside from the fact that they're outside while filling it. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 22:42, 18 November 2007 (EST)

==Inappropriate building?==
I have designated a pond inside my fort in an attempt to get some floors muddy for farming. However, I keep getting the message: so and so cancels Fill Pond: Inappropriate building. Any hints as to what I am doing wrong?
- [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 07:03, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

: IIRC Dwarves will only pour water into a pit; ie. an empty space. If you want to make a floor muddy, you need to mark a pond on the z-level above it. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:41, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== Garbage dump ==
The following sentence is self contradicting. "Each ground tile within that zone is considered a garbage dump tile; thus, if you want to place a single-tile zone, place the zone onto a ground tile (optionally adjacent to a cliff or pit), not onto an open space." It needs correcting, one way or the other. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 04:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

==Wiki style question==
while reading articles in this wiki, i sometimes see keyboard keys described as being "pushed" (for example, under Construction in [[Well]]), sometimes as being "used" (link) and sometimes just Shortcut {{k|w}} (for example, [[Dump]]). can i use any of these in articles that i wish to add to the wiki? -[[User:Anachron|Anachron]]
:There is a lack of consistency. Fix it all! or adopt the (non)standard that already exists... the real answer is see the [[rule]]s. If it's not covered and you think it should be.... work out where it should go![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

==Animal pits==
Is this how I am meant to keep all my herd animals in the same place (I'd prefer not to cage them, I don't know why...)? Are they gonna get hurt when I drop them down a z-level?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:Now I think I have an issue that...
::I have a passage leading to a channel. The channel and one floor tile before it are my pit zones.
::Below that is a room with a s-bend corridor with several doors marked "Passable" (ie not passable to pets).
:It seems that my dwarves want to drop an animal into the pit. Then go downstairs, pick it up, and do it again.
:I am confused![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
===After a night of sleep===
Alright. I now have an animal pit activity zone. Below it is a room with an S-bend corridor with three doors marked '''Passable''' (for dwarves only).
There are "several" animals in the pit.
My question: When I {{k|i}} on the zone, then {{k|P}}, does it show me the animals who have already been put in the pit or not? I would have thought it would be like a cage, showing all animals but putting a special character next to the ones already in the pit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:01, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

::Unfortunately there is no way to tell if an animal has been placed in a pit. So when you assign animals to a pit, it is a one-shot thing only - a dwarf will pit the animal, then there will be no indication that the animal is there the next time you look at the list. It would be nice if we could designate areas as pits, where the areas would act as 'stockpiles' or 'cages' that track which animals are in them.[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:46, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

==Deadly Animal Pits==
I'm surprised I'm not seeing anyone talking about this, but when I saw that you could put animals in pits the first thing I thought about was filling it with snakes, lions, maybe a dragon or two, and having that be what the unlucky goblins who fall into when the get dropped down from your drawbridge trap. --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:31, 22 November 2008 (EST)

*Adding onto that... how about making ponds and filling them with your own fish to start some kind of fish pond or something? --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 20:32, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, that makes sense! I always thought that was what ponds were for, before I figured out you could do other things with them, too. I'd be careful with the dragon pits, though. Even tame ones are very indiscriminate when breathing fire on their foes. (Currently I'm using a race that I gave dragonfirebreath. First thing that happened when zombies attacked was light up the zombies, the wagon and all the starting supplies, and the clothes their of their friends were wearing. I changed the race's ignite point after that.) --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 20:38, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-11-23T01:10:46Z

Navian: Sorry. Yeah, that was supposed to be three on both sides, and when I tried to fix it I rushed.

== Correctness ==
There is no "correct" way to start fortress mode except from not picking Adventure Mode or Legends or Create New World on the main menu screen. It's entirely proper to embark with no skills and absolutely no supplies and watch your seven dwarves go crazy and die in the terrifying glacier. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:03, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:If you'd like to change the name, leave a request with the sysop or something. This conversation has been done 10 times over already and it never ends in anything useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::I dunno, he might be on to something there. This could be a guide on how to start the game, step by step, without pressing the wrong buttons or accidentally defenestrating either your computer or yourself! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Farm Size ==
''Farm size: 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin ''

Is this with or without boozecooking? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:12, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reformatting this page ==

This page breaks from the style used on the rest of the wiki -- it's a dump of opinions and suggestions instead of a collaborative, well-organized article. The problem with this is evident in how people are just arguing with each other on the page (that's what ''talk pages'' are for) instead of putting their heads together to offer readers streamlined, practical advice.

Can we do some discussion here of what its general advice and structure should be, then rewrite it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:Having a bunch of different viewpoints in the page is fine to me as long as it doesn't look like a big argument :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT) 
:I was thinking about this too, but the unfortunate hurdle is that there's no good way to put in a 'generally agreed upon' sort of structure, and there's a lot of strong feelings that run both ways with many things. Perhaps the better way to do this would merely be to take the names out of it. Just put a heading and a couple of equally-bulleted points with the various views, possibly with the dates these views were last updated. A large part of my issue is that most of the advice on the page is clearly from many moons ago (the cats comments being the most noticable). The anvil discussion, for example, could then just be broken down into three bullets, one which suggests crafts, a second which suggests mechanisms, and a third which suggests meals.

:A reformat does need to happen, though. This wiki is really shortwinded on useful, coherant gameplay advice (MANY of the Beginners FAQ pages need total rewrites that I'll probably get to sooner rather than later) and I'd really like to see that change. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::Removing the signatures is definitely the starting point -- it will allow us to treat what's on the page as "our words" instead of "my words".

::I don't think "general agreement" is out of reach -- for any subject, there will be obviously bad advice, obviously good advice, and stuff that will largely depend on how you like to play the game. Our current dispute over trade goods is like that: crafts, mechanisms, meals, and clothes can ''all'' be effective trade goods; we can list their respective advantages and disadvantages and leave it for the player to decide what approach he or she wants to take. We just need to avoid the "One True Approach" mentality, except where everyone agrees that a given idea is Very Good or Very Bad.

::While we're at it, the page title needs to be changed -- though we can do that after it becomes clear what direction the rewrite is taking it in.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll give the page a once-over tomorrow and give my initial thoughts on what should be changed then.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It shouldn't take too long. Click Edit, hit Ctrl-A, and type <nowiki>{{Del}}</nowiki>. Profit. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Reformat is done. Someone else can deal with the nomenclature. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:You did an excellent job with the rewrite. I made various changes and expansions, and there's other stuff I want to add over the next several days.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I really think that a better name for this page would be "General Advice," since that's all it really is, and "Correctly" starting a fortress is mostly a matter of opinion and we're trying to make the page look less opinionated. The page could be very helpful and I think that once it's worked on a bit it could go on the main page. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 21:00, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, "general advice" is a little ''too'' general. At this point, I want to see what kind of changes we make to other related pages, such as [[your first fortress]]. Once we define the role of each better, it should be clear what this page should be named.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lies ==
Don't bring any beasts of burden. You will start with a breeding pair of them for free
That's a lie. You can have different animals at start

Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone
Lies again. It's not '''metal''', it's made of ore. Not Iron statue, but Limonite statue, etc. (You still gain in wealth though)

Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like megabeasts and goblins riding beak dogs as cavalry.
Oh, yeah? ONLY?

Ask for pearlash and rock crystal to make crystal glass.
crystal glass requires '''RAW''' rock crystal, that can't be imported

:Go ahead and edit the page as you like... There does appear to be a consensus that it needs improvement! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:25, 21 November 2008 (EST)

==Thoughts on Revising this Page==
Currently this and similar pages seem deadset on giving very specific advice, which is problematic when people don't agree on the nature of that advice. Why don't we do a basic analysis of the different considerations involved in putting together a successful fortress and maximizing your dwarves, and leave specific build advice as a postscript and proof of concept/example instead of the mainthrust of the article?

Ie, make the first paragraph something like this: 
When establishing a new fortress there are certain difficulties that must be overcome. All fortresses will need to feed their dwarves, handle the influx of migrants, build a secure space to live and work, keep their dwarves happy, and generate trade goods for the merchant caravans. Beyond satisfying these basic needs, dwarves will want to be leveled in experience, both in terms of physical abilities and at particular tasks, and may gain free experience from successfully completing strange mood requests. What follows is a guide to building a fortress that not only survives, but thrives.

Follow this up with paragraphs on options for accomplishing the above basic goals, and a paragraph on the relative value of various skills and how easy it is to level them respectively. Only then should we start busting out examples. Advice should also tend to be less absolute than it currently is (I've started plenty of successful fortresses without dogs, for example).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I agree with that approach. Your post over at [[talk:starting builds]] got me thinking along those lines. Although it's harder than just saying "do this" ;-) .

:In truth, as long as you have a means to feed your dwarves and a handful of things to keep them happy, any fortress will work. (Sooner or later you usually need some defensive measures as well.) That's that's one of the first things we should point out.

:But for me, and I think a lot of other players, much of the fun is in figuring out how to get your dwarves to do lots of stuff very effectively. We actually give pretty good advice on that -- we just make too many assumptions about what the specific stuff will be. This is not surprising given the page's origin ("How to correctly start fortress mode"? Ugh.), though it was improved dramatically by ThunderClaw and others. But it could be improved further, as could all of our "basic advice" pages.

:Right now I'm thinking through a rewrite of [[starting builds]] in response to your post there a few days ago. You made some assumptions as well, but also you challenged me to think beyond the assumptions I had been making. Bit by bit I think we can pull everything together better.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Personally, I found the in-game help file more than sufficient for my needs. But since that's not very helpful to this discussion, allow me to
===An All-Inclusive Guide===
"Fortress mode: So, you've got a crew together, united in a sense of adventure, duty, social outrage, simple greed or bloody-mindedness, perhaps even all of the above. You've come down (or up) out of the mountain halls, home trees, dark fortress, death pits, mother hive or backwater village, and regardless of race, species, motivation or temperment, two questions are likely on your mind: What do you need to accomplish your goals, and what's going to allow you to live to enjoy it? Look no further, the answer(s) lie within!

The first step in your journey is the most important: Choosing a destination. With the wide, wide world laid out before you, expansive and great but not overweight and actually quite good-looking, you know, given her age, this task can be so intimidating that many might be driven to simply bury their heads in the sand or whatever else serves as a soil type within the heartlands of their home civilization. While certainly a valid option, and a safe one, a truly brave, ambitious, and/or foolhardy band of explorers should set their sights much higher.

Is there evil to cleanse? A volcano to harness? Savage wilds to tame? Perhaps you really like snowcones, think it'd be cool to be able to fry eggs right on your doorstep, or always wanted to feel the soothing mist of a waterfall as your mortal enemies plummetting to their deaths are washed away into the raging rapids. All these and more are possible--just choose the right fortress site! See [[starting builds]] for some hints when deciding what to take with you. (Sorry--no kitchen sinks allowed.)

Know your limits and remember your priorities. Most people can't live without water, and few want to live without beer. Food is important, but unless your race is carnivorous, so long as you bring or gather a few seeds and have a small patch of soil you can protect, it won't be a problem. Meat-eaters should seek deeper wildnerness areas with better hunting and fishing grounds, and bring plenty of livestock if possible. Temperature and warm areas tend to have the most wildlife.

If there's no soil for farming, wet rocks will do! By pumping water over the ground, digging a channel to briefly divert a river or stream into (make sure to install a [[floodgate]] and a [[|mechanic|lever]] first!) or digging a [[pond]] to soak with a few bucketfuls, you can ensure that you'll have plenty of crops for the years to come. Remember that outdoor plants need sun and indoor plants need a lack of sun, and that sunlight only ever falls straight down from the sky, straight through anything until it hits the ground.

On the subject of water, watch out. Rivers often menace with spikes of [[carp]], and when the [[ocean]]s were created, someone was having way too much fun with the salt shaker. It's completely undrinkable. You can fix it up so you can drink it down by [[screw pump|pumping]] it into a fully [construction|constructed]] [[reservoir]], but making one of those isn't easy, especially if the ground is so [[|aquifer|soggy]] you can't dig out any stone without [[drowning|getting pickled lungs and a dead brain.]] Bring plenty of [[booze]] if you really, really want that beachfront property; even the water in the ground, rivers, and ponds will be salty for miles around.

A last word on water in regard to temperature. In 'hot' climates, water can boil away in the summer, in 'temperate' or 'cold' it will freeze in the winter. Frozen water can be fun to play with, but drinking it is another story. Water that's flown away into the sky can be pretty to look at, especially when it's shaped like a bunny or a dragon, but it's even harder to drink than the frozen kind. In 'scorching' or 'freezing' climates, water is often in its more useless states year-round! Both problems can be solved by getting the water under the ground, or finding some already there in an [[aquifer]] layer, but keep in mind that trying to build a [[reservoir]] in a [[glacier]] is not only futile, but also very dumb.

Got your food or water? Good! This next section might help you from bleeding your foody water all over the ground. When people talk about 'basic needs', they tend to include clothing and shelter with the other two. Well, let's face it: They're optional so long as you're not in the burning sun or freezing cold, or in danger of getting mauled by lions and tigermen and [[undead|skeletal]] [[giant eagle]]s, [[losing|oh my]]. Don't be fooled by the terrible threats that are out there, though, even a [[raccoon]] can be [[wounds|lethal]] if you don't take precautions. Choosing a more peaceful [[biome]] can help, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the opposite of evil is [[unicorn|cuddliness.]]

The best way to protect your community is to put as much [[wall|stuff]] as possible between ''the'' environment and ''your'' environment, by digging down, by building up, or just by picking a nigh-inaccessible site to live from the outset. More than likely, you'll still need to venture out to gather resources. This is where [[weapon]]s and [[military|armies]] come in, not to mention [[traps]] for your access points and the various other zany and funtastic aspects of [[fortress defense]].

Still alive? Phew. Lucky! If you're done securing yourself from [[food|the]] [[water|'ations,]] and you've been working on protecting yourself from [[creatures|nature]], you've got a head start on preparing for (semi-)intelligent [[semimegabeast|((semi-)]][[megabeast|mega-)]][[invader]]s. If you ''stay'' lucky, you'll have time to make [[legendary artifact|cool]] [[finished goods|stuff]] for [[trading|trade]], [[thoughts|happiness,]] or [[mega constructions|je ne sais quoi]].That's all there is to it!

...Or is it?"

do that. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:40, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-11-23T00:44:40Z

Navian: /* =An All-Inclusive Guide */ I *meant* to click 'show preview'...

== Correctness ==
There is no "correct" way to start fortress mode except from not picking Adventure Mode or Legends or Create New World on the main menu screen. It's entirely proper to embark with no skills and absolutely no supplies and watch your seven dwarves go crazy and die in the terrifying glacier. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:03, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:If you'd like to change the name, leave a request with the sysop or something. This conversation has been done 10 times over already and it never ends in anything useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::I dunno, he might be on to something there. This could be a guide on how to start the game, step by step, without pressing the wrong buttons or accidentally defenestrating either your computer or yourself! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Farm Size ==
''Farm size: 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin ''

Is this with or without boozecooking? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:12, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reformatting this page ==

This page breaks from the style used on the rest of the wiki -- it's a dump of opinions and suggestions instead of a collaborative, well-organized article. The problem with this is evident in how people are just arguing with each other on the page (that's what ''talk pages'' are for) instead of putting their heads together to offer readers streamlined, practical advice.

Can we do some discussion here of what its general advice and structure should be, then rewrite it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:Having a bunch of different viewpoints in the page is fine to me as long as it doesn't look like a big argument :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT) 
:I was thinking about this too, but the unfortunate hurdle is that there's no good way to put in a 'generally agreed upon' sort of structure, and there's a lot of strong feelings that run both ways with many things. Perhaps the better way to do this would merely be to take the names out of it. Just put a heading and a couple of equally-bulleted points with the various views, possibly with the dates these views were last updated. A large part of my issue is that most of the advice on the page is clearly from many moons ago (the cats comments being the most noticable). The anvil discussion, for example, could then just be broken down into three bullets, one which suggests crafts, a second which suggests mechanisms, and a third which suggests meals.

:A reformat does need to happen, though. This wiki is really shortwinded on useful, coherant gameplay advice (MANY of the Beginners FAQ pages need total rewrites that I'll probably get to sooner rather than later) and I'd really like to see that change. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::Removing the signatures is definitely the starting point -- it will allow us to treat what's on the page as "our words" instead of "my words".

::I don't think "general agreement" is out of reach -- for any subject, there will be obviously bad advice, obviously good advice, and stuff that will largely depend on how you like to play the game. Our current dispute over trade goods is like that: crafts, mechanisms, meals, and clothes can ''all'' be effective trade goods; we can list their respective advantages and disadvantages and leave it for the player to decide what approach he or she wants to take. We just need to avoid the "One True Approach" mentality, except where everyone agrees that a given idea is Very Good or Very Bad.

::While we're at it, the page title needs to be changed -- though we can do that after it becomes clear what direction the rewrite is taking it in.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll give the page a once-over tomorrow and give my initial thoughts on what should be changed then.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It shouldn't take too long. Click Edit, hit Ctrl-A, and type <nowiki>{{Del}}</nowiki>. Profit. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Reformat is done. Someone else can deal with the nomenclature. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:You did an excellent job with the rewrite. I made various changes and expansions, and there's other stuff I want to add over the next several days.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I really think that a better name for this page would be "General Advice," since that's all it really is, and "Correctly" starting a fortress is mostly a matter of opinion and we're trying to make the page look less opinionated. The page could be very helpful and I think that once it's worked on a bit it could go on the main page. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 21:00, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, "general advice" is a little ''too'' general. At this point, I want to see what kind of changes we make to other related pages, such as [[your first fortress]]. Once we define the role of each better, it should be clear what this page should be named.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lies ==
Don't bring any beasts of burden. You will start with a breeding pair of them for free
That's a lie. You can have different animals at start

Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone
Lies again. It's not '''metal''', it's made of ore. Not Iron statue, but Limonite statue, etc. (You still gain in wealth though)

Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like megabeasts and goblins riding beak dogs as cavalry.
Oh, yeah? ONLY?

Ask for pearlash and rock crystal to make crystal glass.
crystal glass requires '''RAW''' rock crystal, that can't be imported

:Go ahead and edit the page as you like... There does appear to be a consensus that it needs improvement! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:25, 21 November 2008 (EST)

==Thoughts on Revising this Page==
Currently this and similar pages seem deadset on giving very specific advice, which is problematic when people don't agree on the nature of that advice. Why don't we do a basic analysis of the different considerations involved in putting together a successful fortress and maximizing your dwarves, and leave specific build advice as a postscript and proof of concept/example instead of the mainthrust of the article?

Ie, make the first paragraph something like this: 
When establishing a new fortress there are certain difficulties that must be overcome. All fortresses will need to feed their dwarves, handle the influx of migrants, build a secure space to live and work, keep their dwarves happy, and generate trade goods for the merchant caravans. Beyond satisfying these basic needs, dwarves will want to be leveled in experience, both in terms of physical abilities and at particular tasks, and may gain free experience from successfully completing strange mood requests. What follows is a guide to building a fortress that not only survives, but thrives.

Follow this up with paragraphs on options for accomplishing the above basic goals, and a paragraph on the relative value of various skills and how easy it is to level them respectively. Only then should we start busting out examples. Advice should also tend to be less absolute than it currently is (I've started plenty of successful fortresses without dogs, for example).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I agree with that approach. Your post over at [[talk:starting builds]] got me thinking along those lines. Although it's harder than just saying "do this" ;-) .

:In truth, as long as you have a means to feed your dwarves and a handful of things to keep them happy, any fortress will work. (Sooner or later you usually need some defensive measures as well.) That's that's one of the first things we should point out.

:But for me, and I think a lot of other players, much of the fun is in figuring out how to get your dwarves to do lots of stuff very effectively. We actually give pretty good advice on that -- we just make too many assumptions about what the specific stuff will be. This is not surprising given the page's origin ("How to correctly start fortress mode"? Ugh.), though it was improved dramatically by ThunderClaw and others. But it could be improved further, as could all of our "basic advice" pages.

:Right now I'm thinking through a rewrite of [[starting builds]] in response to your post there a few days ago. You made some assumptions as well, but also you challenged me to think beyond the assumptions I had been making. Bit by bit I think we can pull everything together better.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Personally, I found the in-game help file more than sufficient for my needs. But since that's not very helpful to this discussion, allow me to
===An All-Inclusive Guide==
"Fortress mode: So, you've got a crew together, united in a sense of adventure, duty, social outrage, simple greed or bloody-mindedness, perhaps even all of the above. You've come down (or up) out of the mountain halls, home trees, dark fortress, death pits, mother hive or backwater village, and regardless of race, species, motivation or temperment, two questions are likely on your mind: What do you need to accomplish your goals, and what's going to allow you to live to enjoy it? Look no further, the answer(s) lie within!

The first step in your journey is the most important: Choosing a destination. With the wide, wide world laid out before you, expansive and great but not overweight and actually quite good-looking, you know, given her age, this task can be so intimidating that many might be driven to simply bury their heads in the sand or whatever else serves as a soil type within the heartlands of their home civilization. While certainly a valid option, and a safe one, a truly brave, ambitious, and/or foolhardy band of explorers should set their sights much higher.

Is there evil to cleanse? A volcano to harness? Savage wilds to tame? Perhaps you really like snowcones, think it'd be cool to be able to fry eggs right on your doorstep, or always wanted to feel the soothing mist of a waterfall as your mortal enemies plummetting to their deaths are washed away into the raging rapids. All these and more are possible--just choose the right fortress site! See [[starting builds]] for some hints when deciding what to take with you. (Sorry--no kitchen sinks allowed.)

Know your limits and remember your priorities. Most people can't live without water, and few want to live without beer. Food is important, but unless your race is carnivorous, so long as you bring or gather a few seeds and have a small patch of soil you can protect, it won't be a problem. Meat-eaters should seek deeper wildnerness areas with better hunting and fishing grounds, and bring plenty of livestock if possible. Temperature and warm areas tend to have the most wildlife.

If there's no soil for farming, wet rocks will do! By pumping water over the ground, digging a channel to briefly divert a river or stream into (make sure to install a [[floodgate]] and a [[|mechanic|lever]] first!) or digging a [[pond]] to soak with a few bucketfuls, you can ensure that you'll have plenty of crops for the years to come. Remember that outdoor plants need sun and indoor plants need a lack of sun, and that sunlight only ever falls straight down from the sky, straight through anything until it hits the ground.

On the subject of water, watch out. Rivers often menace with spikes of [[carp]], and when the [[ocean]]s were created, someone was having way too much fun with the salt shaker. It's completely undrinkable. You can fix it up so you can drink it down by [[screw pump|pumping]] it into a fully [construction|constructed]] [[reservoir]], but making one of those isn't easy, especially if the ground is so [[|aquifer|soggy]] you can't dig out any stone without getting [[drowning|pickled lungs and a dead brain.]] Bring plenty of [[booze]] if you really, really want that beachfront property, because even the water in the ground, rivers, and ponds will be salty for miles around.

A last word on water in regard to temperature. In 'hot' climates, water can boil away in the summer, in 'temperate' or 'cold' it will freeze in the winter. Frozen water can be fun to play with, but drinking it is another story. Water that's flown away into the sky can be pretty to look at, especially when it's shaped like a bunny or a dragon, but it's even harder to drink than the frozen kind. In 'scorching' or 'freezing' climates, water is often in its more useless states year-round! Both problems can be solved by getting the water under the ground, or finding some already there in an [[aquifer]] layer, but keep in mind that trying to build a [[reservoir]] in a [[glacier]] is not only futile, but also very dumb.

Got your food or water? Good! This next section might help you from bleeding your foody water all over the ground. When people talk about 'basic needs', they tend to include clothing and shelter with the other two. Well, let's face it: They're optional so long as you're not in the burning sun or freezing cold, or in danger of getting mauled by lions]] and tigermen and [[undead|skeletal]] [[giant eagle]]s [[losing|oh my]]. Don't be fooled by the terrible threats that are out there, though, even a [[raccoon]] can be [[wounds|lethal]] if you don't take precautions. Choosing a more peaceful [[biome]] can help, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the opposite of evil is [[unicorn|cuddliness.]]

The best way to protect your community is to put as much [[wall|stuff]] as possible between ''the'' environment and ''your'' environment, by digging down, by building up, or just by picking a nigh-inaccessible site to live from the outset. More than likely, you'll still need to venture out to gather resources. This is where [[weapon]]s and [[military|armies]] come in, not to mention [[traps]] for your access points and the various other zany and funtastic aspects of [[fortress defense]].

Still alive? Phew. Lucky! If you're done securing yourself [[food|the]] [[water|'ations,]] and you've been working on protecting yourself from [[creatures|nature]], you've got a head start on securing yourself from (semi-)intelligent [[semimegabeast|((semi-)]][[megabeast|mega-)]][[invader]]s. If you ''stay'' lucky, you'll have time to [[category:industry|make]] [[legendary artifact|cool]] [[finished goods|stuff]] for [[trading|trade]], [[thoughts|happiness,]] or [[mega constructions|je ne sais quoi]].That's all there is to it!

...Or is it?"

do that. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:40, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-11-23T00:40:20Z

Navian: /* Thoughts on Revising this Page */

== Correctness ==
There is no "correct" way to start fortress mode except from not picking Adventure Mode or Legends or Create New World on the main menu screen. It's entirely proper to embark with no skills and absolutely no supplies and watch your seven dwarves go crazy and die in the terrifying glacier. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:03, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:If you'd like to change the name, leave a request with the sysop or something. This conversation has been done 10 times over already and it never ends in anything useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::I dunno, he might be on to something there. This could be a guide on how to start the game, step by step, without pressing the wrong buttons or accidentally defenestrating either your computer or yourself! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Farm Size ==
''Farm size: 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin ''

Is this with or without boozecooking? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:12, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reformatting this page ==

This page breaks from the style used on the rest of the wiki -- it's a dump of opinions and suggestions instead of a collaborative, well-organized article. The problem with this is evident in how people are just arguing with each other on the page (that's what ''talk pages'' are for) instead of putting their heads together to offer readers streamlined, practical advice.

Can we do some discussion here of what its general advice and structure should be, then rewrite it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:Having a bunch of different viewpoints in the page is fine to me as long as it doesn't look like a big argument :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT) 
:I was thinking about this too, but the unfortunate hurdle is that there's no good way to put in a 'generally agreed upon' sort of structure, and there's a lot of strong feelings that run both ways with many things. Perhaps the better way to do this would merely be to take the names out of it. Just put a heading and a couple of equally-bulleted points with the various views, possibly with the dates these views were last updated. A large part of my issue is that most of the advice on the page is clearly from many moons ago (the cats comments being the most noticable). The anvil discussion, for example, could then just be broken down into three bullets, one which suggests crafts, a second which suggests mechanisms, and a third which suggests meals.

:A reformat does need to happen, though. This wiki is really shortwinded on useful, coherant gameplay advice (MANY of the Beginners FAQ pages need total rewrites that I'll probably get to sooner rather than later) and I'd really like to see that change. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::Removing the signatures is definitely the starting point -- it will allow us to treat what's on the page as "our words" instead of "my words".

::I don't think "general agreement" is out of reach -- for any subject, there will be obviously bad advice, obviously good advice, and stuff that will largely depend on how you like to play the game. Our current dispute over trade goods is like that: crafts, mechanisms, meals, and clothes can ''all'' be effective trade goods; we can list their respective advantages and disadvantages and leave it for the player to decide what approach he or she wants to take. We just need to avoid the "One True Approach" mentality, except where everyone agrees that a given idea is Very Good or Very Bad.

::While we're at it, the page title needs to be changed -- though we can do that after it becomes clear what direction the rewrite is taking it in.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll give the page a once-over tomorrow and give my initial thoughts on what should be changed then.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It shouldn't take too long. Click Edit, hit Ctrl-A, and type <nowiki>{{Del}}</nowiki>. Profit. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Reformat is done. Someone else can deal with the nomenclature. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:You did an excellent job with the rewrite. I made various changes and expansions, and there's other stuff I want to add over the next several days.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I really think that a better name for this page would be "General Advice," since that's all it really is, and "Correctly" starting a fortress is mostly a matter of opinion and we're trying to make the page look less opinionated. The page could be very helpful and I think that once it's worked on a bit it could go on the main page. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 21:00, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, "general advice" is a little ''too'' general. At this point, I want to see what kind of changes we make to other related pages, such as [[your first fortress]]. Once we define the role of each better, it should be clear what this page should be named.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lies ==
Don't bring any beasts of burden. You will start with a breeding pair of them for free
That's a lie. You can have different animals at start

Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone
Lies again. It's not '''metal''', it's made of ore. Not Iron statue, but Limonite statue, etc. (You still gain in wealth though)

Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like megabeasts and goblins riding beak dogs as cavalry.
Oh, yeah? ONLY?

Ask for pearlash and rock crystal to make crystal glass.
crystal glass requires '''RAW''' rock crystal, that can't be imported

:Go ahead and edit the page as you like... There does appear to be a consensus that it needs improvement! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:25, 21 November 2008 (EST)

==Thoughts on Revising this Page==
Currently this and similar pages seem deadset on giving very specific advice, which is problematic when people don't agree on the nature of that advice. Why don't we do a basic analysis of the different considerations involved in putting together a successful fortress and maximizing your dwarves, and leave specific build advice as a postscript and proof of concept/example instead of the mainthrust of the article?

Ie, make the first paragraph something like this: 
When establishing a new fortress there are certain difficulties that must be overcome. All fortresses will need to feed their dwarves, handle the influx of migrants, build a secure space to live and work, keep their dwarves happy, and generate trade goods for the merchant caravans. Beyond satisfying these basic needs, dwarves will want to be leveled in experience, both in terms of physical abilities and at particular tasks, and may gain free experience from successfully completing strange mood requests. What follows is a guide to building a fortress that not only survives, but thrives.

Follow this up with paragraphs on options for accomplishing the above basic goals, and a paragraph on the relative value of various skills and how easy it is to level them respectively. Only then should we start busting out examples. Advice should also tend to be less absolute than it currently is (I've started plenty of successful fortresses without dogs, for example).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I agree with that approach. Your post over at [[talk:starting builds]] got me thinking along those lines. Although it's harder than just saying "do this" ;-) .

:In truth, as long as you have a means to feed your dwarves and a handful of things to keep them happy, any fortress will work. (Sooner or later you usually need some defensive measures as well.) That's that's one of the first things we should point out.

:But for me, and I think a lot of other players, much of the fun is in figuring out how to get your dwarves to do lots of stuff very effectively. We actually give pretty good advice on that -- we just make too many assumptions about what the specific stuff will be. This is not surprising given the page's origin ("How to correctly start fortress mode"? Ugh.), though it was improved dramatically by ThunderClaw and others. But it could be improved further, as could all of our "basic advice" pages.

:Right now I'm thinking through a rewrite of [[starting builds]] in response to your post there a few days ago. You made some assumptions as well, but also you challenged me to think beyond the assumptions I had been making. Bit by bit I think we can pull everything together better.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Personally, I found the in-game help file more than sufficient for my needs. But since that's not very helpful to this discussion, allow me to
===An All-Inclusive Guide==
"Fortress mode: So, you've got a crew together, united in a sense of adventure, duty, social outrage, simple greed or bloody-mindedness, perhaps even all of the above. You've come down (or up) out of the mountain halls, home trees, dark fortress, death pits, mother hive or backwater village, and regardless of race, species, motivation or temperment, two questions are likely on your mind: What do you need to accomplish your goals, and what's going to allow you to live to enjoy it? Look no further, the answer(s) lie within!

The first step in your journey is the most important: Choosing a destination. With the wide, wide world laid out before you, expansive and great but not overweight and actually quite good-looking, you know, given her age, this task can be so intimidating that many might be driven to simply bury their heads in the sand or whatever else serves as a soil type within the heartlands of their home civilization. While certainly a valid option, and a safe one, a truly brave, ambitious, and/or foolhardy band of explorers should set their sights much higher.

Is there evil to cleanse? A volcano to harness? Savage wilds to tame? Perhaps you really like snowcones, think it'd be cool to be able to fry eggs right on your doorstep, or always wanted to feel the soothing mist of a waterfall as your mortal enemies plummetting to their deaths are washed away into the raging rapids. All these and more are possible--just choose the right fortress site! See [[starting builds]] for some hints when deciding what to take with you. (Sorry--no kitchen sinks allowed.)

Know your limits and remember your priorities. Most people can't live without water, and few want to live without beer. Food is important, but unless your race is carnivorous, so long as you bring or gather a few seeds and have a small patch of soil you can protect, it won't be a problem. Meat-eaters should seek deeper wildnerness areas with better hunting and fishing grounds, and bring plenty of livestock if possible. Temperature and warm areas tend to have the most wildlife.

If there's no soil for farming, wet rocks will do! By pumping water over the ground, digging a channel to briefly divert a river or stream into (make sure to install a [[floodgate]] and a [[|mechanic|lever]] first!) or digging a [[pond]] to soak with a few bucketfuls, you can ensure that you'll have plenty of crops for the years to come. Remember that outdoor plants need sun and indoor plants need a lack of sun, and that sunlight only ever falls straight down from the sky, straight through anything until it hits the ground.

On the subject of water, watch out. Rivers often menace with spikes of [[carp]], and when the [[ocean]]s were created, someone was having way too much fun with the salt shaker. It's completely undrinkable. You can fix it up so you can drink it down by [[screw pump|pumping]] it into a fully [construction|constructed]] [[reservoir]], but making one of those isn't easy, especially if the ground is so [[|aquifer|soggy]] you can't dig out any stone without getting [[drowing|pickled lungs and a dead brain.]] Bring plenty of [[booze]] if you really, really want that beachfront property, because even the water in the ground, rivers, and ponds will be salty for miles around.

A last word on water in regard to temperature. In 'hot' climates, water can boil away in the summer, in 'temperate' or 'cold' it will freeze in the winter. Frozen water can be fun to play with, but drinking it is another story. Water that's flown away into the sky can be pretty to look at, especially when it's shaped like a bunny or a dragon, but it's even harder to drink than the frozen kind. In 'scorching' or 'freezing' climates, water is often in its more useless states year-round! Both problems can be solved by getting the water under the ground, or finding some already there in an [[aquifer]] layer, but keep in mind that trying to build a [[reservoir]] in a [[glacier]] is not only futile, but also very dumb.

Got your food or water? Good! This next section might help you from bleeding your foody water all over the ground. When people talk about 'basic needs', they tend to include clothing and shelter with the other two. Well, let's face it: They're optional so long as you're not in the burning sun or freezing cold, or in danger of getting mauled by [[lions]] and [[tigermen]] and [[skeletal]] [[giant eagles]] [[oh my|losing]]. Don't be fooled by the terrible threats that are out there, though, even a [[raccoon]] can be [[lethal|wounds]] if you don't take precautions. Choosing a more peaceful [[biome]] can help, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the opposite of evil is [[unicorn|cuddliness.]]

The best way to protect your community is to put as much [[wall|stuff]] as possible between ''the'' environment and ''your'' environment, by digging down, by building up, or just by picking a nigh-inaccessible site to live from the outset. More than likely, you'll still need to venture out to gather resources. This is where [[weapon]]s and [[military|armies]] come in, not to mention [[traps]] for your access points and the various other zany and funtastic aspects of [[fortress defense]].

Still alive? Phew. Lucky! If you're done securing yourself [[starvation|the]] [[dehydration|'ations,]] and you've been working on protecting yourself from [[creatures|nature]], you've got a head start on securing yourself from (semi-)intelligent [[semimegabeast|((semi-)]][[megabeast|mega-)]][[invader]]s. If you ''stay'' lucky, you'll have time to [[category:industry|make]] [[legendary artifact|cool]] [[finished goods|stuff]] for [[trading|trade]], [[thoughts|happiness,]] or [[megaconstructions|je ne sais quoi]].That's all there is to it!

...Or is it?"

do that. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:40, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Civilization

2008-11-23T00:18:22Z

Navian: /* Skulking Civilization (The kobolds) */ That's how it is!

A '''civilization''' is a nation, with settlements and a capital city.
At the embark screen, you can select one of the controllable civilizations to play as.
Without [[:Category:Modding|modding]], these are all [[dwarves]], but they may have different items available to start out.

===Mountain Civilization (The [[dwarf|dwarves]])===

Mountain civilizations build settlements on the edge of [[mountain]] ranges.
Their settlements are represented by {{Tile|Ω|#777|#000}} on the world map

=== Plains Civilization (The [[human|humans]])===

Plains civilizations build wooden towns in the lowlands.
Their settlements are represented by {{Tile|+|#777|#000}}, {{Tile|*|#777|#000}}, {{Tile|☼|#777|#000}}, and {{Tile|#|#777|#000}} on the world map

=== Forest Civilization (The [[elf|elves]])===

Forest civilizations build wooden towns in heavily forested areas.
Their settlements are represented by {{Tile|î|#ff0|#000}} and {{Tile|¶|#ff0|#000}} on the world map

=== Evil Civilization (The [[goblin|goblins]])===

They build towers, represented by {{Tile|П|#707|#000}} on the world map

=== Skulking Civilization (The [[kobold]]s)===

Skulking civilizations populate [[caves]], which are hidden unless discovered.
{{World}}
[[Category:World]]

40d Talk:Undead

2008-11-22T22:27:37Z

Navian:

One question: I had two dwarves that were not always occupied hunt small zombies and skeletons (hoary marmots, mountain goat and such). Apart from getting really good at wrestling, they both seemed to gain "Is used to tragedy" as a character trait. Can anyone confirm that? -- [[User:qwertyu|qwertyu]] 12:34, 9 March 2008 (CET)

:That always happens regardless of what they are killing.

:Should we include the fact that attempting to pit undead animals of any kind will result in them attacking the moment they are released, regardless of how close they are to the pit. (They can be right next to it but still attack the pit-ter once they are out of the cages)
:--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 07:39, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::I believe we should put it in as a warning to those who attempt to put captured undead in pits.
::--Rickola

:::Should it be mentioned that the Undead versions are much more tougher than 'normal' creatures, once I had an entire fortress wiped out by a single Undead Racoon. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I think zombies are a lot harder than skeletons. Maybe undead horses are just absurdly hard anyway, but I put all seven of my starting dwarves on a single zombie horse. Sure, they were untrained and unarmored and were wrestling it to death (except for the miners), but all seven dwarves went from untrained in wrestling to novice wrestlers, became tired/exhausted, AND two dwarves died and three got yellow/red injuries, before that single zombie horse went down. Then the other four zombie horses wandered in... Skeletons seem to be a lot easier to kill. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 04:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Though zombies are easy to run away from. My dwarves sidestep zombies whenever they see them (which is often, on my current map), but skeletons would corner them. Zombies are, however, famously difficult to kill by wrestling. Use an axe or sword.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::::Zombies are utterly impossible to kill with wrestling. The only wrestling move that can kill at all is strangling, and zombies don't breathe or bleed. Dwarves set to wrestle undead will only ever destroy them with punches. If you're heading into an evil biome, I'd recommend bringing a well-armed macedwarf! That'll teach 'em to stay dead, pretty darn quick. Swords aren't so good, spears and picks even worse, though axes will do okay. In a pinch, at least make your dwarves shields to bash with. It's a matter of raw damage. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Skeleton Corpse ==

I have a Skeleton Horse Corpses. That's not normal, right? It appears to have fallen several levels into a river. Adjacent to it (well... adjacent if you ignore the z-difference) are bridge squares and weapon traps. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 11:55, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

:I saw [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22793.0 this report] a while ago on the bugs board. May be worth resurrecting it (especially if you can supply saves)? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, just noticed it wasn't on the bugs board, but on the gameplay questions board. May be worth starting a thread on the bugs board then? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:49, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, the board. I hadn't even looked at that yet. Anyway, the person you linked to posted in the bugs board too, so I guess this is known. I didn't think of getting a save... --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 07:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Skeletal creatures ==

I was told that skeletal creatures would lose their limbs whenever they hit broken status. Is this true?

As another note, if that is true, I have a bug that occured. Under the assumption broken bones = removed bones for the skeletons, one of my hammerdwarves hit a skeletal dragon so hard that its upper body was instantly mangled, skipping the broken (and thusly removed) state entirely.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Assuming the 'sever on break' tag applies to skeletons, it only applies to limbs. You can't 'sever' a torso. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Crossbow

2008-11-22T05:55:05Z

Navian:

== Training with Crossbows, Wooden/Bone Bolts more than preferred ==

Dwarves will automatically use only wooden or bone bolts, you needn't worry about metal bolts being wasted on practice.

Based on classic DF, bone or wooden bolts will indeed be used to fight if the dwarf doesn't have anything else though, and they sometimes would just coincidentally have a handful of "practice" bolts when they went out to battle thus having a useful backup. Especially nice when they're very highly skilled and 35-45 bolts isn't enough to last the duration of a fight!

== Out of ammo ==

Is it worth noting (on this page) that dwarves will use the hammer skill to bludgeon with their crossbow if they run out of ammo? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:22, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:I think it is, if only to warn that if they run out of bolts while they're fighting something, they won't immediately run back to the stockpile to get more. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 09:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)

==Xbow material==
Do someone know if your crossbow hit harder, or do more damage, when it's made of metal rather than wood or bone in the same way a melee weapon would? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:42, 28 November 2007 (EST)
:When it is used in melee - crossbow material is important as all other melee weapons. In ranged only material and quality of the bolt affect it's damage potential. Crossbow's quality level is directly added to the soldier's effective marksdwarf skill increasing his accuracy and rate of fire.--[[User:Another|Another]] 13:11, 9 December 2007 (EST)

== training ===

Does say, hunting with a crossbow increase marksdwarf skill?
—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: Yes it does. Unfortunately it will also increase hammerdwarf skill ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== dual wielding ==

I set one of my marksdwarves to wield 2 crossbows, and he's currently holding them both in the same hand. Can he use them both like this or does it mean he'll just going to be using one of them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 18:18, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:Late as hell, but for the record no dwarves truly dual wield in DF. When they carry 2 weapons, it's just in case they lose one in an enemy or it shatters in the middle of a fight. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::Shatter? Wow, I've never seen that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:20, 3 November 2008 (EST)

==Two-handed?==
Are crossbows two-handed when used at range? You'd think they'd be two-handed for re-loading, and one-handed (at the very least, two hands are more accurate) for firing, but I don't know if DF supports this.[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]] 10:34, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

On a more important issue; will a Dwarf be capable of carrying a shield while using a crossbow in case he was forced into melee? Would he only equip the shield up close? How would it affect his ability to carry bolts in his off-hand?

== Z-levels and Range ==

How does firing up or down affect the range of a marksdwarf? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 17:15, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:From what I've seen, marksdwarves can shoot up or down with little problem. The range of a marksdwarf is pretty finite anyway, something like 20 squares.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:36, 10 November 2008 (EST)

==Bolts==
Do bolts even have a quality rating, and if so does it affect damage? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 00:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

They do have a quality rating. It's hard to tell for the other question, but it should. Ammo is treated like weapons in most other respects. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:55, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Crossbow

2008-11-22T04:23:17Z

Navian: /* Bow */ Tweaky.

'''Crossbows''' are the only ranged [[weapon]] that [[dwarves]] can carry. This article also covers '''bolts''', '''quivers''', '''bows''', and '''arrows''' for completeness' sake.

==Crossbow usage==
Once you tell a dwarf to use a crossbow he will pick it up if he has either the [[ambusher|hunting]] [[skill]] enabled or if he is in the [[military]]. He will then pick up a [[#quiver|quiver]] and [[#bolts|bolts]], preferring [[metal]] bolts if available. A dwarf can carry one stack of bolts in his hands, and one in his quiver.

When in range dwarves use crossbows to fire [[#Bolts|bolts]]. If they are engaged in melee they will use the crossbow as a club, using their [[hammerdwarf]] skill.

==Crossbow skill==
Interestingly, when a dwarf levels up his crossbow skill both his civilian ([[ambusher]]) and military ([[marksdwarf]]) skills go up at the same rate{{verify}}. This means that an accomplished marksdwarf will be equally good at hunting animals, despite having never done it before.

Increasing skill requires a successful hit upon a target, with "live targets" granting more experience than an [[archery target]]{{verify}}. Higher skill affects accuracy and rate of fire. An archery range is only used by military dwarves that are off duty, and they will only use wood or bone bolts during practice.

==Construction and quality==
Crossbows can be constructed from [[wood]], [[bone]] or [[metal]]. Wooden and bone crossbows are created at a [[bowyer's workshop]]; metal ones at a [[metalsmith's forge]] using the [[crossbow-making]] or [[weaponsmith|weaponsmithing]] skills, respectively.

The [[quality]] of a crossbow is added to the [[marksdwarf]]/[[ambusher]] and [[hammerdwarf]] skills. The [[material]] used in construction of a crossbow does not affect the damage done when firing, but does affect the damage done when it is used as a melee weapon.

==Related information==
===Bolts===
'''Bolts''' are used by crossbows and [[Weapon_trap#Weapon_Trap|crossbow traps]]. Making bolts from [[wood]] or [[metal]] gives a stack of 25 whilst making them from [[bone]] gives a stack of 5*number of [[bones]].

Metal bolts are created at the [[metalsmith's forge]] and require [[weaponsmith]] skill. Wood and bone bolts are created at the [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] and require [[woodcrafting]] and [[bone carving]] skills, respectively. The material and quality{{verify}} of the bolts affects the amount of [[Weapon#Material damage modifiers|damage]] done.

If you decorate a stack of bolts, the same decoration will be applied to every bolt in the stack simultaneously. In other words, decorating a stack of 10 bolts will produce 10 times as much wealth as decorating a single sword, even though it takes the same amount of material. This can be considered as an [[exploit]] because doing so increases the value of a fortress by a ridiculous amount.

In [[adventure mode]], bolts can also be thrown for about the same results as firing them, except that it uses the [[thrower]] skill.

===Quiver===
A '''Quiver''' is an item used to store [[bolt]]s or [[arrow]]s. It is worn on the body, like a [[backpack]].

Quivers are made of [[leather]] at a [[leatherworks]]. Dwarves equipped with a crossbow will automatically wear quivers if they are available, and carry a stack of bolts in it. This allows a dwarf to carry one extra stack of bolts, typically [[bone]] or [[wood]] training bolts in the hand, and [[metal]] ones in the quiver.

Invaders, merchants, and migrants often have [[silk]] and [[cloth]] quivers, even though you can't make them yourself.

In adventure mode, a quiver can hold any number of arrows and bolts.

===Bow===
A '''bow''' works the same way as a crossbow, except that is uses [[arrow]]s instead of [[bolt]]s. [[Dwarf|Dwarves]] cannot equip bows, and the interface is such that they still cannot be wielded in [[Fortress Mode]] at all, even with [[Modding guide|modding]]. They can still be used in [[weapon trap]]s, however.

When firing arrows it uses the [[bowman]] skill. When attacking with melee, it uses the [[swordsman]] skill, although it's a bludgeoning attack.

===Arrows===
An '''arrow''' is just like a bolt but for bows. [[Dwarves]] can't handle bows, so they don't need arrows. But in [[adventure mode]], [[humans]] and [[elves]] can use bows, so they will need arrows if they choose to use one.

Arrows can also be thrown in adventure mode for about the same results, except that it uses the [[thrower]] skill.

==See also==
*[[Ambusher]]
*[[Marksdwarf]]
*[[Archery target]]
*[[Bowyer]]

[[Category:Weapons]]

40d Talk:Wall

2008-11-22T04:07:00Z

Navian: /* Building from bridges */

Is there a way to build walls on areas (like when designating a stockpile) instead of tile per tile? Very boring work when constructing long walls... --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 13:40, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Not as of {{ver|0.27.169.33a}}. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 14:11, 4 November 2007 (EST)
The text of the article seems to suggest that engravings and smoothing can be done on constructed walls. In my experience, a constructed wall is described as a "Granite Block Wall" and does not accept either smoothing or engraving commands. It also highlights with a flashing green "C" in designation mode, indicating it is constructed. If I'm wrong, I'd love to know how to accomplish this!
Also, the article text indicates that a wall must be built above certain types of solid object. In my experience, this is not true; you can build a wall over empty space provided you build ''beside'' an existing solid structure. This is key when building spiral ramps within towers, etc.
I'm very new to wiki editing, so I'm not going to touch the article itself at this point. If someone would like to verify...?--[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:10, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:All right, some experimentation has determined how walls are named and how the operate. I'll use "felsite" as my material in the examples: A wall which is comprised of naturally-occurring rock or other material is called a "Rough-hewn Felsite Wall". Smoothed, it becomes a "Smoothed Felsite Wall". A wall constructed of mined stone using the building menu is described as a "Rough Felsite Block Wall" while one made out of stone block (prepared by a mason) is a "Felsite Block Wall". Neither type of constructed wall is engravable or smoothable, and both type look identical to a smoothed natural wall. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:40, 14 November 2007 (EST)

: Any idea why constructed walls cannot be engraved? It seems somewhat counterintuitive. --[[User:Trithemius|Trithemius]] 09:15, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

: I had a dwarf build an engraved wall. I think all I used was the normal build wall command and nothing more, but I wasn't really paying attention, i just needed to fill in an extra wall section. When I went back one section of the wall looked weird, and when I looked at it and pressed enter a description of the engraving came up. However it is still called a rough basalt block wall not an engraved wall. [[User:Afu|Afu]] 05:08, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Do glass walls block LoS? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 20:18, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Has anyone come across a bug where built walls do not produce a floor on the z level above? I was building two small towers and for some reason some constructed walls are being built without anything above them, it doesn't even show up (using looK) as Open Space but it is displaying the - symbol normally used for open space. Most frustrating is it I rip it down and built the wall again it does it again. Both towers were the same other than material used and one has this problem along one face while the other is fine.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 05:42, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:yes, but it was fixed several versions ago, in 176.38a and ive not had it happen again since. from the Devlog:
* fixed problem leading to floors not being placed above some constructed walls
:-[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:40, 26 February 2008 (EST)
::Now I feel stupid, I downloaded 176.38a but didn't actually unzip/install it. Thanks. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 15:25, 26 February 2008 (EST)

I've noticed it's not always necessary to have a z+0 wall supporting a z+1 wall (on top of) as long as there is an access via a floor. Thus one can achieve a "protuberant" type construction which is physically eerie. Is it a known bug or on purpose?--Annales
:It's just how support and cavein code works for now. You can call it "on purpose", but i's going to change someday (and don't forget signing)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:52, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

==wall strength==

does the strength of the wall change depending on the material? doors gain strength when made of iron. --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]

:AFAIK, walls are basically invulnerable still (33g), if not permanently so. So at this time, no relevant tests can be done to determine if one wall is more or less resilient than another. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:55, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

::Wooden walls will block magma... Ashen (from ash - burned wood, not ash - kind of tree) walls block stones fired from catapult. I think that's enough to say that strength of the wall doesn't depend on anything. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:13, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
::: ok, tohught trolls could break through walls, if not, KOOL --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]

== One way to make your masons behave ==

So I've dug a tunnel that'll carry a flow of magma, and I just need to plug the access corridor I used during its excavation before unleashing the torrent. And of course, my idiot mason ''insists'' on walling himself up inside the magma tunnel. I could provide escape stairs, but really, why should I compromise my fortress' aesthetics for the sake of that suicidal dunce? So here's what I did:

#####
..S.. <- lava channel
##W##
##.## <- access corridor

The "W" is where I want to build a wall, and "S" is where the mason insisted on standing while building it. So I crafted a cheapo stone statue, placed it at S, and it forced the mason to stand on the other side of W to build it. Then when the magma came through it melted the statue away.

I hope the statue was a self-portrait. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 20:58, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

: You know, a simple door would've done the trick. You place a door instead of an actual wall, make it forbidden (and tightly closed) once the idiot has returned to his other things. It holds magma for now (and is cheaper and faster than building both a wall and a statue). [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 11:14, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Waterproof? ==
Do walls hold back liquids similar to a closed door?
I assume water, yes. And magma only if its a steel wall?
-- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 13:05, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:Yes in every possible case. A wall made of soap blocks will hold back water, and one constructed from ice will hold back lava. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:14, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== Construction on the Edges ==
Does anyone know of a mod or what file I should change to allow construction of walls along the edges of the map? I'm going for the "Border Crossing" challenge build and the map calls for a wall from edge to edge, yet I am prohibited from building anything within five spaces from the map's edges as well as digging one space from the edge. -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 17:40 10 November 2008 (PST)

:It's hard-coded into the engine. No can do. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:28, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Walls as battlements ==
If I have outdoor walls, are marksdwarves able to shoot enemies on lower levels from on top of the walls? I have ramps going up my walls so that my dwarves can get on them and I'm wondering if its useful to put an archery target up there or anything. -- --[[User:DimensionWarped|DimensionWarped]] 18:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Yes! I believe that their accuracy is increased with height, too. I put the target nearby, build extra flooring to put an ammo stockpile on, and "station" the squad (from the military screen) on the battlements so they'll go/stay up there when I send them on-duty. Do note that dwarves tend to fall off things when they find themselves dodging melee combat, so station some fighters at the bottom of your ramp to keep baddies from trying to engage your marksdwarves, widen the tops of the walls by [b]uilding floors to either side, and/or build walls up there you can then carve into [[fortification]]s they can shoot through (via the [d]esignations menu). --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 18:26, 21 November 2008 (EST)
::Afaik, you can't carve fortifications into built walls. Instead you just construct fortifications. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:30, 21 November 2008 (EST)
:::In the current version (40d) you can, at the very least, carve fortifications into walls constructed out of stone blocks. I know this, because my current game has giant battlements with constructed-wall-fortifications and remembering to go back and carve them after they were built was a pain in the butt. This would have been much more straightforward if I'd noticed that there was a [F]ortifications option on the construction menu. Thank you for pointing that out! :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:44, 21 November 2008 (EST)

==Building from bridges==
Something I noticed in a game. I could place a long wall along one side of the bridge and the dwarves would build it quite happily, starting from the secure end and working outwards. However if I placed a second long wall from the midpoint of the bridge onwards a dwarf would start it early (I think he was working on a wall square from the second long segment), causing a collapse. So it seems that it is safe to place long walls alongside bridges, as long as you do it one segment at a time. Can someone check this is true, and if so think of a better way of wording for placement in the article? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:53, 21 November 2008 (EST)

It's not always true, it depends on a number of factors. If you have multiple builders and one is slacking off, others can jump ahead. Likewise, if your materials aren't all in one stockpile, that could also cause problems, especially if one piece gets lost or stuck and the job for a section is suspended. Overall it's safest to supervise carefully. Better yet, if you're building walls next to bridges anyway, just build a floor instead of the bridge. Then it'll be indestructible. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:07, 21 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Wall

2008-11-22T03:01:52Z

Navian: /* Construction */ Oops, forgot to remove the dummy paragraph.

A '''wall''' is a either a [[map tile]] or a [[construction]] that blocks access to creatures. The appearence of a constructed wall is similar to that of a [[smooth]]ed wall but it works the same as any filled tile composed of mountain rock, clay or soil. Walls either occur naturally (e.g. a Rough-hewn Andesite Wall), or can be constructed. With constructed walls it is possible to create multi-level [[building]]s such as [[tower]]s complete with roofs by creating [[floor]]s on the layer above. A wall fills the tile it is in and creates a walkable space above it.

== Digging ==
As explained on the [[digging]] page, naturally occuring walls can be dug out using the {{Key|d}}esignations {{Key|d}}ig command, or {{Key|h}} channel command. These tasks are carried out by dwarves with the [[mining]] labor activated.

Natural walls can be designated for {{K|s}}moothing and {{K|e}}ngraving to improve the appearance and value of the wall. These tasks are carried out by dwarves with the [[stone detailing]] labor activated.

== Construction ==

As of v0.28.181.39a, walls can be built ''en masse''. To do this, use the {{K|b}}uild -> {{K|C}}onstruction -> {{K|w}}all command. The keys {{K|u}},{{K|m}},{{K|k}} and {{K|h}} are used to change size. )In earlier versions without this feature, constructions were placed as single tiles.) Walls may be built on any square which does not already contain a structure, provided your dwarves can reach an adjacent square. Diagonals can neither be built from, nor will they support constructions.

Ot is important to be careful when building around bridges. Dwarves consider constructions adjacent to bridges to be accessible for the purpose of building them, even though upon completion the wall will suddenly turn Wile E. Coyote and plummet in a cloud of dust, which can both directly injure any dwarves nearby and sweep them off the bridge and into oblivion.

Floors below and walls or floors up, down, left or right from a construction are the only ways to support one. Beware, as collapsing constructions will smash though every floor underneath them, even natual ones, until hitting a z-level occupied by solid stone or soil. Walls made of wood must be built by a carpenter, metal walls by any metalworker, and all other wall types (stone, charcoal, soap, etc.) use masonry.

Constructed walls cannot be engraved, but can be carved into fortifications ({{K|d}}esignate - c{{K|a}}rve fortifications). This is faster than deconstructing them, and they can still be deconstructed and then reconstructed to become walls again. If the floor under a wall is engraved, the engraving will be placed upon the wall, instead, and will be restored to its original position if the wall is deconstructed.

Normal walls are considered 'rough'. By using stone, wood, metal, or glass blocks, higher quality constructions can be built with increased value. This can be particularly important when trying to maximize the value of a [[noble]]'s room. Carving blocks is a good way to train the [[masonry]], [[carpentry]], [[metalsmithing]] and [[glassmaking]] skills, as blocks have no quality modifer. Raw materials, on the other hand, are ideal for temporary or makeshift constructions as they can be taken down with no loss of resources, whereas blocks can only be used for construction.

== Removing Walls ==

To remove a wall, open the {{Key|d}}esignations menu and select {{Key|n}} Remove Construction.

==See also==
*[[How do I construct a wall from a particular direction|How do I construct a wall from a particular direction?]]

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Buildings]]
[[Category:Constructions]]
[[Category:Map tiles]]

40d:Wall

2008-11-22T02:59:05Z

Navian: /* Construction */ It's the little things!

A '''wall''' is a either a [[map tile]] or a [[construction]] that blocks access to creatures. The appearence of a constructed wall is similar to that of a [[smooth]]ed wall but it works the same as any filled tile composed of mountain rock, clay or soil. Walls either occur naturally (e.g. a Rough-hewn Andesite Wall), or can be constructed. With constructed walls it is possible to create multi-level [[building]]s such as [[tower]]s complete with roofs by creating [[floor]]s on the layer above. A wall fills the tile it is in and creates a walkable space above it.

== Digging ==
As explained on the [[digging]] page, naturally occuring walls can be dug out using the {{Key|d}}esignations {{Key|d}}ig command, or {{Key|h}} channel command. These tasks are carried out by dwarves with the [[mining]] labor activated.

Natural walls can be designated for {{K|s}}moothing and {{K|e}}ngraving to improve the appearance and value of the wall. These tasks are carried out by dwarves with the [[stone detailing]] labor activated.

== Construction ==

As of v0.28.181.39a, walls can be built ''en masse''. To do this, use the {{K|b}}uild -> {{K|C}}onstruction -> {{K|w}}all command. The keys {{K|u}},{{K|m}},{{K|k}} and {{K|h}} are used to change size. )In earlier versions without this feature, constructions were placed as single tiles.) Walls may be built on any square which does not already contain a structure, provided your dwarves can reach an adjacent square. Diagonals can neither be built from, nor will they support constructions.

Ot is important to be careful when building around bridges. Dwarves consider constructions adjacent to bridges to be accessible for the purpose of building them, even though upon completion the wall will suddenly turn Wile E. Coyote and plummet in a cloud of dust, which can both directly injure any dwarves nearby and sweep them off the bridge and into oblivion.

Floors below and walls or floors up, down, left or right from a construction are the only ways to support one. Beware, as collapsing constructions will smash though every floor underneath them, even natual ones, until hitting a z-level occupied by solid stone or soil. Walls made of wood must be built by a carpenter, metal walls by any metalworker, and all other wall types (stone, charcoal, soap, etc.) use masonry.

Constructed walls cannot be engraved, but can be carved into fortifications ({{K|d}}esignate - c{{K|a}}rve fortifications). This is faster than deconstructing them, and they can still be deconstructed and then reconstructed to become walls again. If the floor under a wall is engraved, the engraving will be placed upon the wall, instead, and will be restored to its original position if the wall is deconstructed.

An unsupported wall will fall down and cause a [[cave-in]], even punching through any floor tile in its way before smashing into solid ground and deconstructing.

Normal walls are considered 'rough'. By using stone, wood, metal, or glass blocks, higher quality constructions can be built with increased value. This can be particularly important when trying to maximize the value of a [[noble]]'s room. Carving blocks is a good way to train the [[masonry]], [[carpentry]], [[metalsmithing]] and [[glassmaking] skills, as blocks have no quality modifer. Raw materials, on the other hand, are ideal for temporary or makeshift constructions as they can be taken down with no loss of resources, whereas blocks can only be used for construction.

== Removing Walls ==

To remove a wall, open the {{Key|d}}esignations menu and select {{Key|n}} Remove Construction.

==See also==
*[[How do I construct a wall from a particular direction|How do I construct a wall from a particular direction?]]

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Buildings]]
[[Category:Constructions]]
[[Category:Map tiles]]

User:Navian

2008-11-22T02:24:30Z

Navian: Oops, paragraph breaks failed.

Navian has been fine lately. She admired own fine laptop computer lately. She talked with a friend lately. She slept in a good bedroom recently. She complained about the crowded tables recently. She was unhappy with the lack of work last season.

She is a dubious worshipper of Yahweh the Big Cheese of Godliness.
She is a citizen of The True North Dominion of Freezing. She is a member of The Fortress-Wikipedia of Nets.

Navian likes Quartzite, Aluminum, Turquoise, Nylon Fabric, the colour cobalt and cougars for their cunning. When possible, she prefers to consume Cranberry juice.

She is always tense and jittery. She is slow to anger. She is often sad and dejected. She is socially crippled by thoughts that everyone is watching and judging her. She never feels tempted to overindulge in anything. She is very distant and reserved. She tends to avoid crowds. She loves a good thrill. She is mostly unaware of her own emotions and rarely expresses them. She is put off by authority and tradition. She doesn't like to compromise with others. She is uncomfortable with change. She is immodest. She does not feel effective in life. She is completely diorganized. She has a strong sense of duty. She thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. She is easily given to procrastination. She is extremely cautious. She doesn't mind being outdoors, at least for a time.

User:Navian

2008-11-22T02:23:57Z

Navian: There we go, a REAL user profile, now.

Navian has been fine lately. She admired own fine laptop computer lately. She talked with a friend lately. She slept in a good bedroom recently. She complained about the crowded tables recently. She was unhappy with the lack of work last season.
She is a dubious worshipper of Yahweh the Big Cheese of Godliness.
She is a citizen of The True North Dominion of Freezing. She is a member of The Fortress-Wikipedia of Nets.
Navian likes Quartzite, Aluminum, Turquoise, Nylon Fabric, the colour cobalt and cougars for their cunning. When possible, she prefers to consume Cranberry juice.
She is always tense and jittery. She is slow to anger. She is often sad and dejected. She is socially crippled by thoughts that everyone is watching and judging her. She never feels tempted to overindulge in anything. She is very distant and reserved. She tends to avoid crowds. She loves a good thrill. She is mostly unaware of her own emotions and rarely expresses them. She is put off by authority and tradition. She doesn't like to compromise with others. She is uncomfortable with change. She is immodest. She does not feel effective in life. She is completely diorganized. She has a strong sense of duty. She thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. She is easily given to procrastination. She is extremely cautious. She doesn't mind being outdoors, at least for a time.

40d Talk:Modding guide

2008-11-21T21:40:07Z

Navian: Might as well answer the rest, too!

[re: Creating separate .txt file for new creatures]

This didn't work well for me. I added a new playable civ (Klackon) to the entity_default file like this page said, and the species (Klackon) in that new civ was located in a new .txt file. Dwarves still showed up, but never my civ. I kept reducing the number of allowable dwarf civs thinking they were just competing for selection, culminating in getting rid of them entirely, ending up in developing a world that had humans and elves only! Oops.

Finally, I added my Klackon creature to the end of the creature_standard file instead of only having them in the creature_klackon.txt file.. Voila! I now have dwarf civs and klackon civs in the same world and actually get a choice between them when I make a fort.

It's very possible that I just messed up something basic when I made the new .txt file to contain the creature definition, but I could still point out that making a new, separate .txt file certainly didn't make things simpler for me, so it's not such great advice for budding modders.

Everything else worked fine though, so thanks, still!
:Have to be sure to add the text files name ( "creature_klackon" without the parenthesis, or brackets) and the line [OBJECT:CREATURE] to tell the game its a creature file. --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:17, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Bad info? ==

So someone added a big notice at the top that suggests there's a fair bit of out-of-date text.. but no mention of what that may be, no links to forum posts, et cetera. Someone want to clue me in on just what, exactly, is no longer relevant? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 15:14, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it's safe to take off the version warning but the examples need to be tested. It would probably be easier to manage if this article was split into smaller, in depth, modding guides. --[[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 23:07, 28 February 2008 (EST)

I would love to see a little more descriptive way of handling the raw files as opposed to simply a slew of examples on things to mod. Perhaps I'm just not spending enough time "tinkering", but it seems that the current article is set up rather poorly. Is that just me? --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]
[EDIT]
I didn't realize there were complete lists of tokens. Silly me; that sure makes things easier. 1:37, 15 May 2008 (CST)

== Arachnid Tutorial ==

<s>Minor nitpick here, but it apears he forgot to add :5FINGERS:</s> tested it and it works, added it to wiki. as one of its body tags to go with its hands. Also, as a nice additional tutorial, maybe add in this little bit of code to show people how to add joints? --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:39, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<pre>
[BODY:ARACHNID_JOINTS]
[BP:RUA_J:right shoulder][CON:RUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LUA_J:left shoulder][CON:LUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RLA_J:right elbow][CON:RLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LLA_J:left elbow][CON:LLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RH_J:right wrist][CON:RH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LH_J:left wrist][CON:LH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
</pre>

== Dwarven Flight ==

If I add the line [FLIER] to my dwarven civilisation would anything interesting happen? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:30, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:No, dwarves will just spam "Task cancelled: dangerous terrain". They will have problems doing anything. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Flight pathing is even broken for invaders. What a shame! Swimmers can have problems too, though not ''that'' bad. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Fireproof Trees? ==

Is there any means to create a wood material (and corrosponding trees to harvest for it) which will not burn, or at least won't ignite from contact with magma? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:47, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I am no expert but, what if you added the [FIRE_IMMUNE] tag to trees. Do not know if that will work, or if thats even the right tag. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:12, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::[FIREIMMUNE] doesn't seem to work for making a fire safe wood. I think it's a creature token, anyway, so it makes sense that it wouldn't work for materials. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 12:27, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::: It's a creature token so it won't work. However, taken from Adamantine's entry (it is magma-proof):
::::[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
::::[MELTING_POINT:25000]
::::[BOILING_POINT:50000]
:::Hopefully that helps. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:11, 12 August 2008
IGNITE_POINT is a matgloss token. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== .txt ==

My word processer won't let me save .txts. Does that matter?
:Yes. A word processor program (like anything from Microsoft Office) will generate all sorts of gibberish in addition to your text. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:22, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adventure mode? ==

Do I have to add the tag adventure tier to the dark elves to make them playable in adventure mode? [[User:Yaddy1|Yaddy1]] 16:13, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Yup. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Modded creatures not showing? ==

I tried making my own races for a test. Spartans, copied from entity_info of dwarves and creature_Standard info from Humans and small bit from Titans.
Persians, Like goblins but weaker and stupider.
after running 4 different regions with different settings, only Goblins, Dwarves and Humans showed up. What am I doing wrong? There is not a single trace of them even existing at the legends screen.
I really want to kick persians with spartans instead of biting goblins with dwarves.
[[User:Skibiliano|Skibiliano]] 14:22, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

:The problem probably lies in the titan tags. In any case, backing up the original raws and just editing them would be easier to test. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== "Random" civ selection with more than one playable civ ==

In the main text on this page (and I swear in a fair few other places, but I can't find them for some reason), it notes that if you have the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] token on more than one entity it will randomly select from the playable civs when you embark. Well, yes, it's random in the sense that it initially selects a random group for your fortress to be an offshoot of, but you can easily select the desired species of your fort inhabitants by manually picking the appropriate group from the embark screen, either using legends mode to work out which group is which species, or by checking the "nearby civilizations" section and seeing which species is at the top (it seems that your species will always be at the top of the list). I'm going to adjust the "random selection" note to say you can choose your civilization, but I'm not sure if a whole mini-tutorial on picking your civ really belongs in the modding guide, or whether it should go somewhere else. Comments? --[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:10, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:Just the one line about how the race you'll be playing will be at the top of the 'neighbours' list wouldn't be that bad, wouldn't it? No tutorial required, anyway. Maybe we could divide the topic later, but I think this is an relevant as anything, considering how much depth can be added to the game this way. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 18:55, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::Okay, added a paragraph on picking your species. I think I covered all the pertinent points fairly succinctly. As a random aside, while the species I added is quite hardy and long-lived, so they've never been wiped out, I'm not sure if the game will care if some of the playable species die out. While in the vanilla game with the default settings it's impossible to kill off the dwarves, since the game will reject it due to having no playable civs, with additional playable races it may just be possible to have your extra species (or the dwarves) all die out and be unplayable in an otherwise acceptable map.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 09:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::I confirmed that. My aquatic playable civ didn't appear on a map without their starting biome, and my single gender race was wiped out by humans on the next go, leaving only the other playable each time. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-11-21T17:25:35Z

Navian: /* Lies */

40d Talk:Archery target

2008-11-20T20:00:17Z

Navian: /* Experience */

== Dwarves don't practice with metal bolts. ==

"Any sort of bolts can be used to practice with." This can't be correct, unless it's been changed in this version. I have never seen a dwarf practice with metal bolts. --[[User:Kjoery|Kjoery]] 09:15, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:You are correct. In my new fortress, the dorves only practice when I finally built bone/wood bolts. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 17:53, 25 November 2007 (EST)

== Experience ==

Does the distance to the target have any effect on how effective the training is? Are longer distances better, or shorter? Does it depend on the dwarf's skill (i.e. shorter for novices, longer for professionals)?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 01:23, 28 February 2008 (EST)

so, am i the only one who is disturbed by the archers happily firing away at the dwarves cleaning up their training bolts? Is this the kind of respect we should show our cleaning personal? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 20:22, 5 March 2008 (EST)
:I've thought it odd, but as they don't get hurt its only a minor cosmetic bug.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 20:19, 7 March 2008 (EST)
:: I dont think its a bug at all. I was kidding ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:48, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::: It teaches them to shoot around friendlies... it's a feature, yeah, a feature. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:26, 20 November 2008 (EST)
::::Used ammunition immediately becomes 'forbidden by default... It'd be fun if the reason was to protect haulers from being forced to carry an uncomfortable number of bolts back in some uncomfortable places, but really it's just that stacks can't recombine yet! Training with one bolt at a time isn't very efficient, nor is carrying only one in your quiver... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:00, 20 November 2008 (EST)

==Distance==

Anyone know the minimum/maximum distance an archer will train from? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 20:06, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:Well, they won't stand directly adjacent to the target. "... cancels Shooting at Archery Range: No floor space." One space in between is enough. The archery range room has a maximum size too -- can't designate beyond that. They'll still train at the maximum distance. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 23:27, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Any benefit from using a smaller archery range? Do the dwarves wait for the bolt to hit the target before firing a new one? If so, a smaller range may imply faster training.

:Dorfs will fire as many shots as they want without waiting for their shots to hit their intended mark. I've seen this both with targets as well as fleeing goblins (heh heh heh.). Firing speed seems to vary from shot to shot, dorf to dorf (i've seen anywhere from 30 to 60 (k|.) presses before a second shot is unleashed). So on the contrary, a larger range may imply faster training since it allows them to practice their archery. Additionally, when faced with a small range and a large range, they usually take the longer range, even when it's further out of the way. --[[User:JeebusSez|JeebusSez]] 23:47, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

== Minimal Practice ==

When I have a barracks set up, my melee dwarves all spar like mad and happily paint the walls red with each other's blood. However, in my latest fort I had 22 archery ranges, yet only one or two of my twenty-four marksdwarves would practice at a time, despite an abundance of bone bolts (hundreds and hundreds). Is this a bug, am I doing it wrong, or what? I even tried separating the ranges with a wall between each. Do they need to be in distinct rooms with a door? What's going on here? --[[User:Xaddak|Xaddak]] 18:00, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
:Does each target have its own room defined? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 19:17, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
::Yes they do, and all of my dwarves are off-duty or in the Fortress Guard, too. --[[User:Xaddak|Xaddak]] 19:26, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Unfortunate accident

2008-11-20T18:33:59Z

Navian: /* Should that really be here? */

== Walk the Plank ==

''These threads were formerly at [[Talk:Walk the Plank]], which was merged with this article.''

===Applied use===
How, precisely, are you supposed to get your victim to walk to the kill zone? I don't see that mentioned here. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

''...Build another lever at the end of the plank and link it to both the bridge and the support; Set the workshop profile for the lever to the noble you would like to be rid of; Pull the lever '' [[User:Random832|Random832]] 10:29, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Though it's not clear to me why the bridge needs to be retractable. It seems like this would work just as well with a permanent bridge. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 10:31, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Why do you need all the trouble with bonus mechanisms and supports? Just build a bridge over the lava and put the lever on it. That way it is even re-usable. You might want to mention this here, because this seems needlessly complex.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 11:12, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Can you actually build the lever ''on'' the bridge though? I don't think you can stack things like that. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:17, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:Indeed you can't.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:20, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:No, you build the lever on the platform that gets collapsed, which is not a bridge. The bridge is so the platform can be walked to without being connected to adjacent floors. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:20, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Bridges are way better way of doing this... Just get the noble between 2 locked doors (lock them when he/she comes in) and bridge and you're done. It is also reusable. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:15, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

=== Suggest Merge ===

This should be merged into [[Unfortunate accident]]. 
--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 14:47, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:Seconded.
:--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:20, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

::Can someone add the "This page has been suggested for merging" template to the article? I don't know how.
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 10:53, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:::Since there were no objections, I just went ahead and merged it. The merge can be undone if objections arise.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:06, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::::Right now, [[Unfortunate accident]] has ''no'' talk page. Could you merge this the talks as well as the article?

:::::Done.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:15, 3 November 2008 (EST)

=== Platform Collapse ===
How is one supposed to build the lever at the end of the bridge? I tried building a floor to plant the lever on, and while the dwarves did try, the floor just instantly collapsed when complete. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:00, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== Should that really be here? ==
I don't know about that 'walk the plank' section being in this article, it runs counter to the tone of the rest of it. The other sections are tongue-in-cheek, and then suddenly it starts blowing a raspberry all over your face. Unless someone could rewrite it to fit the tone. That'd be impressive. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Your lever is ready, m'lord.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Well-done, sir. Well done. You are a champion! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:33, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Unfortunate accident

2008-11-20T15:23:35Z

Navian:

40d Talk:Starting build

2008-11-20T15:14:13Z

Navian: /* Disagreement with the thrust of the builds */

Hey, I'll have to see who wrote these starting builds and see if I can't contact him/her, but "About & Challenges" sounds uh... not informational? How about "Overview"? I don't want to edit your work here without your approval (even though I could do so on my own.) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
: Feel free to adjust the "About & Challenges" to anything else. It was just something to group one of the blocks of text and encourage others to write similar blocks of text. "Overview" sounds much better. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 22:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

i wrote the dwarves & skills part and wrote a small info on why to take this kind of a build as most of the items you take are heavily dependant on the area you are in.

Overviw sounds better though so i agree with that

also for the guy who asked why 10 bags; bags might be hard to come by in this version since cave spiders arent always there, which leads to little or no silk in the starting areas, and hunting might not be the best idea if you have dark gnomes or something like that in the area, and if you dont have any bags, making a glass indrusty will prove very hard.

:No ''sand'' on a map makes making glass even harder. No, impossible.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 05:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Remove Fortress Sites? ==

Most of the page is about items and skills. The fortress sites section doesn't seem to fit. I'd like to move that information to another page. Either [[location]], [[biome]] or [[region]]. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 00:40, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== trade goods ==

The mountain build suggests lots of turtle for trade goods as you'll have no wood, however shell and bone goods are worth next to nothing and roasts are worth enough to build out whole caravan. So rather then crafter and wood cutter skills I'd just go with a high-level cooking and sell excess food. (on the other hand shell and bone goods don't rot away ¬_¬) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:03, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I think the idea is that the bones and shells make fish and turtles marginally more valuable than other meat. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 00:00, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::With shell and bone you can create tons of bolts or crossbows to sell to merchants for next to no cost. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:15, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I'll keep the bone bolts, myself. Do you have any idea how incredibly fast marksdwarves-in-training go through them? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:56, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Fair enough, but if you can make goods to sell to the merchants then that's great. Don't forget, if you have plenty of wildlife and goblins, you can have enough bone to create bolts AND spare crossbows! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Food ==

The builds suggest taking at least 6 of each 2 cost food items, but I would suggest only one of each 2 food item (for a free barrel) and a lot of turtles, which leave both shells and bones. As other meats only leave either a bone or nothing at all. So for the easiest game use turtles. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 09:16, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Steel Axes? ==

I noticed in the build it says to get 2 copper picks and one steel axe. The first real attempt I made at getting a fortress going, the first thing I did was ditch the _steel_ axe in favour of a cheaper material, and got a better pick. Steel items cost 300. Copper costs 20. While it makes sense to have a few extra copper picks in case your miner gets killed, a good solid iron pick will make the early mining (And his skill increase) go a lot faster. Contrarily, you really don't need steel axes. Iron is more than enough. Even copper will do just fine. And you really only need one. And, rather than ditching your anvil for stuff, try ditching your steel axe for 100 logs. Thats more than enough to last you till you have a smelter going and can make your own axes. - Stormlock 7:03 Nov 1

:Steel axes are the only axes available on the preparation screen now. Does anyone know if this is a bug or not? --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:47, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Digging speed is not affected by the material the pick is made out of, as explained on the [[pick]] page. Neither are [[battle axe]]s. Therefore, you should just take the cheapest one. I've never been able to pick any axes other than steel either, however. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 17:33, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Layout ==

Should we really be dividing this up by biome? Seems to me it would be a better idea to lay this out as a series of options, e.g. "If you're settling in a mountainous/treeless region, drop your axes and take logs instead" etc. The new choices for landing site seem too diverse to keep the old formula methods of deciding on party goods. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:48, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== IOGT ==
I added AA to the IOGT title since ... I've never even heard of the IOGT and had to Google it. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 11:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== 2.2 and 2.3.2.4 ==

These two have a lot of redundancy between them. I can't really think of a good way to merge them though, since there is definitely information in each that should probably stay separate. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 16:06, 2 December 2007 (EST)
:Agreed. Moved some advice to external linked page. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 03:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==Critique of the "Rapid Expansion" build==
I didn't write it, so I'm not going to rewrite it unless I get approval. But I do have some beefs with it. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 03:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)

* The introduction is too wordy for this page and is more suited to a player's guide.
* The cross-training causes some of the dwarves to simultaneously be in demand for several essential early tasks, such as food-preparation and digging both.
* Suggesting a hunter/ranger is a death sentence on some maps; a warning is needed. Also, you also NEVER want to suggest making your leader a fisherdwarf, warning or no; at present, it's just too dangerous a profession at many sites to risk your appraiser/organizer/trader in.
* Strange moods in key trade skills are essential for a truly high-value fortress. The suggested skill set doesn't work at all well with strange moods; most dwarves will get nothing interesting from a strange mood and you don't know what The Smithy will make.
* Instead of the The Smithy being a "jack of all trades", he should be a master of a couple, chosen with both an eye to your fortress location and to his innate preferences. You'll get much more value this way, which is the declared point of this build.
* The comment "This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost." is factually incorrect. A 4-point plump helmet gets you five 2-point booze, plus several seeds, for each one brewed; all of this can become food. I know of no cheaper way to ensure both food and drink than bringing plump helmets.
* Bringing stone is unnecessary to make workshops. Just make the temporary buildings out of logs or raw materials and free them up later.
* The comment "as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon" is incorrect in my experience; I've known times when a horse was pulling the wagon, but more likely than not I don't have one.
* The comment "The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional" is totally false for many fortress sites and requires a skilled, experienced player at all others.
* Speaking generally, this build is very much tailored to particular ways of playing the game, assumes particular kinds of site, requires a fair amount of skill, and therefore is - IMHO - not particularly well suited to an introductory page as written.

: Agreed [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Starting builds page sucks ==

Frankly, this page sucks. There is too much irrelevant and or useless information. I made a few changes to cut down on the clutter, but the advice on this page stinks. We should focus more on what the best uses of points are instead of personal builds that have little relation to optimal strategy. I don't have time to do this right now. --[[User:Belasarius|Belasarius]] 23:20, 29 January 2008 (EST)

Added an introduction which, hopefully, explains what creating a build is about (skills, items).
I'd suggest moving the discussion of possible environments somewhere, but didn't want to replace that large chapter with a simple ' [[biome]]s' :-) [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 16:51, 19 February 2008 (EST)

== Ambusher Skill? ==

Do you still start with free items? If so, how much Ambusher is needed? Because I just tried this with novice ambushers/proficient marksmen/+4 other dwarves and no one got any crossbows, armor, or bolts. (Which, when your starting ontop of a goblin fortress, is a pretty rude surprise - that your marksdwarves don't actually have weapons).
:Unsigned comment above was [[user:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]
:I believe ambusher has to be the (joint) highest skill level that dwarf has to get the free equipment. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 10:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
::As of 27.176.38c, a Marksdwarf 4/Ambusher 2/Armor User 2/Wrestler 2 gets free armor + weapon + bolts, but if you mix in *any* civilian skills they seem to not get the free equipment. --[[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:00, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

==Disagreement with the thrust of the builds==
So, while I will grant some of the advice on this page is good for your first game where you're really trying to figure out how everything works, it seems like really poor advice for maximizing your starting dwarves.

I consider my starting skills as follows:
(1) What is fast and easy to train without any investment (take no ranks in these skills) 
(2) What would be especially valuable to get a legendary off a mood (take a full 5 ranks in some such skills, don't pair with other mood skills if possible) 
(3) Which skills are absolutely essential and don't fall under 1. 

My generic choice looks something like the following, although I vary a little based on fortress goals:

Armorer 5/Leader stuff (Negotiator/Appraiser/JoI/Consoler/Flatterer usually) 
He'll do really early mining until he hits Skilled (so as not to risk the valuable Armorer skill as the mood skill) and then be put on bookkeeping as soon as he gets an office.

Weaponsmith 5/xxx 5 
The xxx is generally another craft, often metalsmithing. He has a high likelihood of weaponsmithing for a mood (also valuable), especially as he's more likely to do some weaponsmithing before anything else (since he'll be making the battleaxe at the beginning). Also a possible early miner.

Mason 5/Building Designer 5 
The mason is mostly the go-to dwarf for building structures, so architecture is the only logical combo. Its also rare enough a skill to be demanded that it won't interfere with his masonry much, and hard enough to level (with substantial impact on the value of structures like roads and wells) that I can't justify starting it less than 5.

Brewer 5/Grower 5 
Cook 5/Grower 5 
I'm a big fan of entirely underground farming to start with - any other farming can be splashed after trading with the elves/humans and getting seeds from their plants later - indoor farming is more than sufficient for the fortress's food needs, so no herbalist needed. And these two can feed a fortress of 200 without breaking a sweat. They will each smith one copper pick in the beginning for a splash of metalsmithing in case they get a mood.

Carpenter 5/xxx 5 
Mechanic 5/xxx 5 
Finally, I'll need a mechanic and a carpenter. What I splash with them will vary from game to game. Often I find my carpenter and mechanic doing a lot of work early and later having abundant freetime, so another craft is often in order (generally having the two of them in the same production tree), though this is where I vary my skill set the most. As their secondaries aren't going to be the mood skill, its not worth sticking valuable metal skills here though. But clothing line or gem setter/glassmaker are good bets (other glass industry skills, including gem cutting, don't have any impacts on quality of most items). I've also run second masons here and so forth.

Skills I absolutely don't start with: Woodcutting, Mining, Stone/Bone/Wood Crafting, Herbalist (unless I'm trying to live above ground entirely for the last one). Woodcutting, Mining, and those crafting skills all train fast. And Mining will have plenty of practice time as I hollow out storage and living spaces before I need to worry about rock retention rate. I generally pass mining duties on to dedicated miners with the first immigrant wave (generally sometime in the first summer) and then level them to legendary as fast as possible with fortress expansion, prospecting, and random busywork if need be. I also rarely start with any military skills - mass drafting and mechanical traps can handle the early game without a problem. By the time I expect real opposition I'll have had immigrants I don't know what to do with that I can draft and set to training - often producing champions before the first real wave of goblins hits.

Starting equipment: 
Anvil, some copper and iron bars, some rock (generally bauxite), 1 charcoal, some Bituminous Coal, min/maxed food/drink supplies with an emphasis on turtles, seeds (generally 10 Rock Nuts, 1 of all the others, and i'll get plump helmet spawn to plant with from consumed/brewed plump helmets i bring with me), and some random bits of cloth, leather, thread, cut gems, etc... for insurance against moods. I'll often try to bring an animal that will likely pair up with one of the wagon animals (if Muskoxen are available, its a sure choice). Early game involves building a smelter, making coke, build a forge, make 2 picks (team grower) and an axe, and build some other essential buildings out of bauxite temporarily (this keeps the bauxite locked up and thus not crafted into doors or tables - i'll want it for mechanisms and floodgates later).

This is remarkably different from the advice offered here, because most of the builds push Mining as a starting skill, and don't consider mood skills at all (a rather important considerations considering how valuable some skills are and how valuable others aren't - making a legendary boneworker the old-fashioned way is easy).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:46, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Like a lot of things, it depends on biome. A skilled miner and military skills can be critically important for a starting party charging in to someplace savage. A location with a lot of water and dangerous water creatures can breathe much easier if everyone can swim and fight the [[carp]] menace. It's only natural that in an already secure site that you'll want to build for efficiency instead, though. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:14, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Island

2008-11-20T14:46:02Z

Navian: /* Rewrote the page. */

Um, I'm a complete newbie, and I want to make my first fortress on an island. What about the fact that you are immune to goblin attacks if you are on an island? What about some tips on how to make a fortress on an island? Help! -- Cayzle

This should be added to the <nowiki>{{world}}</nowiki> categories.

--[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 17:55, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Oh wait. I figured out how to do it.

--[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 18:02, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'm pretty sure an island isn't a biome type. Also, I've yet to see the game mention islands at all. Like a valley, this is a feature that is created and then recieves no reference. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:27, 14 November 2007 (EST)

== Complete nonsense ==

As far as I can tell there is nothing useful about this article. The facts listed are all either completely untrue, utterly misleading, or don't related specifically to islands.

As mentioned, islands are not a feature in the game, there is nothing special about islands at all. If there is anything truly unique about them, then it is the comment about volcanoes:

# Often has a volcano

But I'm not even really convinced that is very accurate.[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 14:27, 11 December 2007 (EST)

I agree. Delete this page. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 20:07, 11 December 2007 (EST)

== Rewrote the page. ==

I made the article a little less cluttered, but other than that not much. Islands really aren't all that different from other coastline, even if I like the aesthetics :P I suppose islands could be useful for escaping the hippy menace though. Can anyone verify what sea level is?

"Your first fortress" says that goblins will settle nearby you at a certain point if there weren't any to begin with. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:22, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Is that true? I'm not aware of a mechanism by which this happens. They don't siege until you have 80 dwarves -- maybe that's what the author of that line had in mind?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:29, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::I've built in a remote corner of the map with my fortress population approaching 400 and no hostiles have ever showed up, haha. It's been eight years, so if there's a trigger, it has to be pretty obscure. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 09:46, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Starting location

2008-11-20T14:41:49Z

Navian: /* Mode:Civilisation */

Trees do not only grow on the lowest Z-Level. I have trees growing on multiple Z-Levels. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 02:46, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Hmm. Maybe only up to a certain height? My first map--while initially pretty decent (sand, water, trees, rock, variety of minerals) had trees only in the most lower left hand corner (one screen's worth), which also happened to be the lowest surface level I had. But you are right, my current fort (nice entrance, there was a pocket by a river tributary that I turned into my entrance gateway, but no sand) has trees on two levels, the lowest surface, and the second lowest. Still, it's something to be aware of.
--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Absolutely - that's why I changed it to say "lower" instead of lowest. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 03:35, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

So I noticed. :)
--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Towns ==

Any benefit of building in towns? Other than mining under the elves and dropping them into pits? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:35, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:Yes there is. Humans are more than happy to share their stuff with you, and won't be at all upset if you rob them blind it seems. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:11, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
::Think this'll ever get changed? Seems kind of unrealistic to me...--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:56, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Mountain tiles guarantee certain features. ==

As per my addition, for each mountain square in the 2nd zoom view, you're guaranteed pits, a chasm, and an underground river. I have confirmed this myself using the reveal tool, and Today has confirmed at least part of it: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176 - [[User:Kjoery|Kjoery]] 16:49, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Confirmed this too.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:20, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Towns Revert ==

Any reason why that edit was unacceptable to you Savok? I'm not going to revert, but I would like an explanation. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:06, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Errors in PNG? ==

Contrary to the text in the attached PNG, I've had fortresses with pockets of sand sufficient for glassworking even when sand doesn't show up in the embark screen. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:25, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Yes, all maps I've ever had have had at least a few squares of sand. Is it guaranteed? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 22:18, 30 November 2007 (EST)
:I have never seen any pockets of sand. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Another error is that magma and volcanoes now appear on the map [[User:MikeWulf|MikeWulf]] 23:41, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Note that underground magma is hidden. Only lava on the surface is shown on the map --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Layers ==

The paragraph about layers is not explicit enough for newbies. For instance, 'igneous intrusive' never shows up on the embark screen. What I would like to see is something like
* red sand - useful for glass making
* gabbro - in this layer you may find chalk, a flux
* felsite - in this layer you may find copper ore
etc. (Caveat: the data I gave as example is most likely false and/or incomplete).

This way, by comparing the embark screen to this page, the reader would immediately find out what (s)he may find in the site.
--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:51, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

:I added a link to [[stone layers]]. There's a lot more in-depth info there. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 16:32, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Fun starting locations ==

A starting location that looks pretty good from the readouts can turn out to be as boring as hell once you arrive at it. Are there any tips for finding ''interesting'' locations? --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 16:46, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

: Define "interesting"? Anything with a [[chasm]] or in a [[terrifying]] biome could be 'interesting', I'm sure! Personally I often like completely flat land, so I can make the area interesting with my own constructions! That said, I'm considering next building a settlement on the side/s of a steep canyon or river valley! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Magma ==

Regarding finding Magma, this page reads: "look for darker igneous rocks like basalt, obsidian, gabbro" -- is this accurate? Basalt and obsidian are igneous extrusive, while gabbro is igneous intrusive. Only the igneous extrusive page calls out that magma is commonly found there. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 20:41, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

== Mode:Civilisation==
I just noticed, when starting a new fort and choosing which dwarf civ I was from, a symbol I hadn't seen before. Normally dwarve homelands are just blue omegas, this time I saw an omega and also 2 blue {{Tile|î|#ff0|#000}}s. Anyone else seen this/know if this has any significance? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 05:25, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I've had this happen to human civs and one dwarf civ- it means they somehow acquired forest sites during worldgen. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The flipside of humans conquering forest retreats and building towns on them is that you can end up with elves living with them who wear metal armour. I had an 'elven diplomat' show up to discuss human diplomacy, and many 'human' merchants and guards were also elves. That could get scary in the event of a siege! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 09:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Island

2008-11-20T04:12:40Z

Navian: I didn't put it there, but if 'coast' redirects to 'ocean', then the link just doesn't make sense.

{{Expand Topic}}

During world generation, seas and oceans will fill the lowlands (and lakes the bottled-up highlands) of your map. Islands are often volcanic, but can also simply be the result of mountain ranges that are mostly submerged.

==Starting your fortress on an island==
Islands vary in size, but even the smallest tend to be very large relative to the size of a typical fortress. In bodies of saltwater, islands tend to have little exposed stone and almost always have saline aquifer layers from sea to shining sea, all making basic survival difficult. Islands in freshwater lakes pose fewer complications, although they are more rare.

In either case, civilizations are rarely founded on islands. Generally, only your founding civilization will brave the seas to either trade or harass you. Although this can make security a lower priority, it can also be a disadvantage. Eventually goblins may settle nearby to conduct raids.

{{World}}

[[Category:World]]

40d:Island

2008-11-20T03:51:58Z

Navian: I don't know about the accuracy of these statements, either, but the article definitely needed a rewrite.

{{Expand Topic}}

During world generation, seas and oceans will fill the lowlands (and lakes the bottled-up highlands) of your map. Islands are often volcanic, but can also simply be the result of mountain ranges that are mostly submerged.

==Starting your fortress on an island==
Islands vary in size, but even the smallest tend to be very large relative to the size of a typical fortress. Islands are dominated by [[Coast|coastlines,]] tend to have little exposed stone and almost always have saline aquifer layers from sea to shining sea, all making basic survival difficult. Civilizations are rarely founded on islands, and generally, only your founding civilization will brave the seas to either trade or harass you. Although this can make security a lower priority, it can also be a disadvantage. Eventually goblins may settle nearby to conduct raids.

{{World}}

[[Category:World]]

40d Talk:Item token

2008-11-20T03:18:07Z

Navian: Replies!

I don't think the ROUGH item type is obsolete. I'm pretty sure it's still used for rough gemstones IIRC. I've been putzing around with reactions a lot and I can't remember everything I've tried, but I think I made rough gems using that token that I was able to cut with a jeweler and everything. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:59, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, I've been poking around with ROUGH, too. Works fine for making/using raw glass, too, with GLASS_GREEN:NO_MATGLOSS (or _CLEAR or _CRYSTAL) as the material. [[User:Vanigo|Vanigo]] 20:25, 29 November 2007 (EST)

----

I've tried to use the tag [ITEMCORPSE:GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLET:METAL:ADAMANTINE] (for obviously nefarious purposes), and while I succeeded in getting two '☼Adamantine gauntlet☼'s, I cannot for some reason put them on (yes, even after removing the iron gauntlets I started with). I suspect this to be because I need an ☼Adamantine left/right gauntlet☼ instead, but I can't seem to figure out how to generate one (despite trying a couple variations on _LEFT). Any thoughts? --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 23:53, 28 February 2008 (EST)

:That should be 'gauntlets', with the s. Oops! --[[User:Navian|Navian]]

== Drop seeds? ==

Can I get an example on how to get a dog to drop seeds when butchered?

==Order==
Any reason this isn't in alphabetical order? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:24, 6 November 2008 (EST)

== Displaced Page? ==
Where is the list of tokens for item definition files (I.E. "item_weapon.txt)? I go to this page expecting to see a list of those tokens, and instead I see a list of things to put IN the [ITEM:...] token in OTHER definition files, which does me little good when I'm trying to make an item to make my unfortunately small foxes playable as a civilization. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zeta|Zeta]]

:Please sign your edits using two dashes and four tildes. Also, the list exists in the form of those "item_xxxxx.txt" files you mentioned. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:What exactly are you looking for? There are weapon tokens, armour tokens, etc., specific for every category. As far as I know, a digging tool and an axe are the only things a civilization needs to be fully playable, and even then, mining and woodcuting are optional. Wearable items are always the right size for their creators. Is there something else? --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 22:18, 19 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-11-19T22:41:21Z

Navian: /* <insert material> Fort....wait, what? */ Taking advantage

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]

:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

~LrZeph~

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind

~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
^^
..
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
VV
>^
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:
| /
| /
| /
|/
|\
| \
| \
| \
:Or:
| /
| /
| /
|/___
| /
| /
| /
|/___
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Agoraphobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)

User:Navian

2008-11-19T03:17:17Z

Navian:

My current project is a frozen fortress with no neighbouring civilizations. The biomes are taiga and glacier, with the fortress built in the glacier and the taiga used for farmland, plant gathering, sand, woodcutting and a water supply in the form of an aquifer. With no enemies and few animals, only one member of the fortress died of external causes, an unfortunate bear hunter. Another of my hunters has made sure to stock up on over a hundred food items and can barely move. This keeps him very safe, as he is unable to catch anything.

The lack of sieges gives the place an ominous tone, I find. All the ice makes room for acres of engraving and huge towers, but with most of the workforce devoted to food, cloth, dye, and glass production, not much work has been done. The count recently arrived, and went insane due to his bedroom not being engraved when he went to sleep in it, and being woken up by the engravers who came to improve it. Hard to satisfy, that one. The countess is easily pleased, on the other hand, all she needed to do was break a miner's spine in a fist fight and she was right as rain.

I've noticed a few interesting things during the course of this game. One, 'The Incoming King' really likes roads paved with clear glass. Two, not only did the dead count's wife stay a member of the nobility after his passing, but she's now become the 'Duchess Consort' after the arrival of a new Countess and her Consort, and subsequent promotion.

Yes, that's a Duchess, a Duke Consort, and a Duchess Consort, all demanding rooms and imposing mandates. Three, as it turns out it actually ''is'' possible to get engravings on constructed walls, it just requires building the wall on top of a floor engraving. This helps a lot for subdividing nobles' rooms, and it makes my covered roadways much prettier.

Carvans and migrants trek through hundreds of miles of snowfields, so I thought it'd be nice to get them a nice big hall. I was going to make it more epic/ridiculous in proportions, but I ran out of mined ice and left it at two stories with fortifications on the third level roof.

***

The king finally came, and the fortress population is 303. Still no signs of any hostiles whatsoever. Heck, the polar bears won't even come back. I'm starting to wonder whether there's any endgame for me at all, or if this is going to keep going on... I'm more than 20 years into the game, the year 599 is almost over, and there have only been fifteen deaths: Four babies who fell down the well shaft before I moved the barracks, the crazy count, a few failed moods, a couple sparring deaths, and one construction accident.

Justice hasn't given anyone permanent injuries yet, just broken bones, but brain damage was very common before the population got so high that the meeting areas and barracks carved into the glacier aren't so cold anymore. I wonder, if the ice started to melt and that 18 story tower collapsed on a few dozen idlers, could that be a game-ender? Definitely would be a cute one. I definitely have plenty of unemployed citizens, with more goods than they can export and so much food there are no barrels left for brewing. The only way to generate jobs would be to mine and construct great works of insanity in this featureless wasteland, and my fingers just aren't up to all the button-pressing involved.

40d:Aquatic creatures

2008-11-18T21:11:40Z

Navian: Clean-up!

'''Aquatic creatures''' live in fresh or salt [[water]], sometimes in both. Most are [[fish]] but some are amphibious or mammalian. While most are small creatures like perch or salmon, the majority are nearly alike in game terms and are not listed here.

== Amphibious creatures ==

'''Amphibious creatures''' live in water, but have lungs and can move on land. They have [AMPHIBIOUS] and sometimes [UNDERSWIM] tags in their raws. This category includes walrusses and such mammals but not whales.

* [[Alligator]]
* [[Cave crocodile]]
* [[Frog demon]]
* [[Frogman]]
* [[Giant olm]]
* [[Giant toad]]
* [[Grimeling]]
* [[Hippo]]
* [[Olmman]]
* [[Saltwater crocodile]]
* [[Turtle]]
* [[Walrus]]

== Fish ==

'''Fish''' are [[creatures]] that live solely on water. Most have gills, though a rare few have lungs. They generally have [AQUATIC], [UNDERSWIM] and [IMMOBILE_LAND] tags in their raws.

* [[Angelshark]]
* [[Baskingshark]]
* [[Blacktip reef shark]]
* [[Blue Shark]]
* [[Bluefin tuna]]
* [[Bluefish]]
* [[Bull shark]]
* [[Carp]]
* [[Cave lobster]]
* [[Cod]]
* [[Coelacanth]]
* [[Common skate]]
* [[Conger eel]]
* [[Frill shark]]
* [[Giant grouper]]
* [[Great barracuda]]
* [[Great white shark]]
* [[Halibut]]
* [[Hammerhead shark]]
* [[Leechman]]
* [[Longfin mako shark]]
* [[Longnose gar]]
* [[Manta ray]]
* [[Marlin]]
* [[Milkfish]]
* [[Nurse shark]]
* [[Ocean sunfish]]
* [[Opah]]
* [[Pike]]
* [[Sea lamprey]]
* [[Sea monster]]
* [[Sea serpent]]
* [[Shortfin mako shark]]
* [[Spiny dogfish]]
* [[Stingray]]
* [[Sturgeon]]
* [[Swordfish]]
* [[Tiger shark]]
* [[Tigerfish]]
* [[Whale]]
* [[Whale shark]]
* [[Whitetip reef shark]]

[[Category:Creatures]][[Category:Animals]]

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-11-18T18:22:26Z

Navian: /* Correctness */

User:Navian

2008-11-18T07:00:52Z

Navian:

40d:Status icons

2008-11-18T05:24:23Z

Navian: Expanded on 'thrown' and changed name to reflect other conditions in which it occurs.

'''Status icons''' are symbols that flash when a creature is under a certain effect. When a creature has multiple status icons, they will flash in succession.

{{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}}
flashes to...
* {{Tile|☺|rgb(128,0,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Legendary]]:''' The dwarf has a skill that has reached Legendary level. Take care of these fellows.

* {{Tile|X|rgb(128,128,128)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Immigration|Migrant]]:''' The dwarf has just arrived at your fortress and is still getting used to the place. They won't do any jobs while in this state, which doesn't last long.

* {{Tile|?|rgb(0,256,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''No Job:''' The creature has no job and no destination.

* {{Tile|?|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''No Destination:''' The creature has a job, but no destination. They get this when you shut a door on their faces.

* {{Tile|-|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}}{{Tile|\|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}}{{Tile|<nowiki>|</nowiki>|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}}{{Tile|/|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}}{{Tile|-|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Multiple Creatures:''' More than one creature is on the same tile, the game will switch between them using this animated line.

* {{Tile|↓|rgb(128,128,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Hungry:''' Dwarf needs [[food]] badly.

* {{Tile|↓|rgb(0,0,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Thirsty:''' The creature needs [[water]] or [[alcohol]].

* {{Tile|↓|rgb(128,128,128)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Tired:''' The dwarf wants [[Sleep]]. Depending on how tired they are, their speed will be drastically lowered.

* {{Tile|↓|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Unhappy:''' The dwarf's unhappy thoughts are piling up. Not a good sign for a fortress, as this can lead to tantrums.

* {{Tile|Z|rgb(128,128,128)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Sleep|Sleeping]]:''' This dwarf is not going to be productive, and the object it is sleeping on will have an effect on its mood.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(128,128,0)}} '''Prone:''' When the dwarf is lying on the ground. Several prone creatures can be in the same tile; therefore, in tight corridors, dwarves will be constantly lying down and standing so they can go through. Also happens in combat. Make sure to remember to stand up if this happens in Adventure Mode.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(0,256,256)}} '''Soaring:''' The dwarf has been thrown by a wrestling move, flung into the air by a raising drawbridge, fallen off a cliff, gone over a waterfall or gotten smashed by a blunt weapon and is flying backwards from the force of the blow. It's impossible to query a creature in this state, but you'd probably be better off covering your eyes, anyway.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(0,0,256)|rgb(0,0,128)}} '''[[Swimmer#Drowning|Drowning]]:''' The creature is underwater and cannot breathe.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(192,192,192)}} '''Webbed:''' The icon that shows when a dwarf walks into a [[cave spider]]'s web.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(192,192,192)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[fey mood|Fey Mood]]:''' The dwarf will find a workshop, get materials, and make an artifact. After this, it will have a skill increase to [[Legendary]], along with attributes. If it cannot find the required workshop or items, it will wait until it goes insane, berserk, or melancholy.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(256,0,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Possessed:''' The same thing as [[fey mood]], but without the skill increase.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(256,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Tantrum]]:''' The dwarf has finally had enough, and has lost his temper. The dwarf stops all work, and proceeds to throw things, destroy buildings and hurt other dwarves. This is not a permanent state, but extremely annoyed dwarves will tantrum repeatedly.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(0,256,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Insane]]:''' Dwarves may eventually go crazy and babble, leading to this icon (usually because they couldn't complete an artifact). Dwarf moves erratically around until he/she dies of hunger or thirst. A form of madness.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(0,0,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Melancholy]]:''' When a dwarf has sad thoughts for a very long time, it may lead to this. Dwarf sulks around the place until he/she dies of hunger or thirst, or tries to kill himself by drowning or chasm. A form of madness, it's pretty much permanent.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(192,0,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Enraged:''' After a dwarf is injured or had a pet killed by an enemy, the dwarf may get angrier and attack the enemy with rushes and powerful hits. Dwarves in this state will seek fights with enemy or neutral creatures. May also occur to non dwarves.

* {{Tile|!|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Martial Trance:''' When a single dwarf is being attacked by more than one enemy, it will fall into this state and supposedly focus better. Toady one has [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000037 said], "You have to be a dwarf [to be able to get the martial trance]. It improves all kinds of combat rolls and modifiers (but no direct damage bonus -- 'enraged' does that)." Dwarves in this state will seek fights with enemy or neutral creatures.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(128,0,128)}} '''[[Wrestling]]:''' It is grabbing, or attempting to grab, another creature in a fight. Could also be holding on to a part of the opponent as well.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(0,0,0)|rgb(256,0,256)}} '''Last seen:''' Indicates the last known location of the creature. Adventure mode only.

* {{Tile|+|rgb(256,256,0)|rgb(192,192,192)}} '''Minor [[Injury]]:''' Any wound that leaves only one hand in working condition, including severings.

* {{Tile|+|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(192,192,192)}} '''Major [[Injury]]:''' Loss of the use of a leg, both arms, or a fatal injury to a vital organ that hasn't killed the dwarf yet. Yellow or worse damage to any of the brain, throat, heart, guts, or both lungs are all mortal wounds. Yellow or worse damage to one lung is typically not fatal, but this status flag will remain on the dwarf permenantly as he goes about his day.

* {{Tile|X|rgb(0,256,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Stunned:''' Dwarves can be stunned because of pain, and may lead to unconsciousness. Cave spider bites also cause periodic stunning. May also occur from a fall, usually from a dodge or a [[cave-in]].

* {{Tile|X|rgb(0,256,0)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Nausea:''' Can be caused by [[cave adaptation]], and will cause [[vomit]], or during combat, when one spears another through the vital organs in the abdomen.

* {{Tile|X|rgb(192,192,192)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Winded:''' When a dwarf is out of breath, they are winded. This can be caused by being underwater, having a lung pierced or throat torn out.

* {{Tile|☼|rgb(0,256,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''[[Combat#Paralysis|Paralyzed]]:''' The creature cannot move. Caused by poison or severe brain damage.

* {{Tile|X|rgb(256,256,256)|rgb(0,0,0)}} '''Unconscious:''' A bad sign for a dwarf, since they usually become unconscious in a fight and will die shortly afterwards. Sometimes, pain or permanent spinal injuries will make a dwarf periodically fall unconscious.

* {{Tile|☺|rgb(256,0,0)|rgb(128,0,0)}} '''Dead:''' This dwarf is gone, far away from the horrors of the puppy-cooking, noble-drowning fortress.

In addition to the above symbols, creatures carrying an object will alternate between their usual icon and the icon of the object they are carrying.

==Cheatsheet==

[[Image:icons.gif]]

{{Game Interface FAQ}}

[[Category:Interface]]
[[Category:Creatures]]
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Thoughts]]

40d:Milker

2008-11-18T05:13:18Z

Navian: The best way to make suggestions is not to preface them with 'The best way...'!

{{Skill
| color = rgb(128,128,0)
| skill = Milker
| speciality = Milker
| profession = [[Farmer]]
| job name = Milking
| tasks =
* {{k|m}} [[Milk]] Creature
| workshop =
* [[Farmer's workshop]]
}}

A '''milker''' is a dwarf that will milk creatures. Currently{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, the only milkable creatures are purring maggots, though civilizations may milk creatures off-screen for your benefit.

Milkers tend to be glorified [[peasant]]s. Suggested tasks include:
* Military
* Meatshield
* Stone hauler

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Clothing

2008-11-17T22:45:10Z

Navian: /* Why bother? */

== masterpiece disentigration ==
Does masterpiece clothing disentigration still cause the maker to get all pissy over it?

If so, then it needs to be added to the article. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:31, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I've seen a few artifact articles of clothes in the game, but I have never seen anyone wear them. It could be that the game avoids this question. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 20:24, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== mass-produce? discard old clothes? ==
I would like to see something on which clothes players should mass-produce to keep their dwarves happy. I'm really not sure myself. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:37, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: I second this request. Do dwarves automatically discard old clothes? It seems that my dwarves are buying new clothes at the stores, but then they still wear there old rotting trousers. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::In my experience they would discard old socks and boots, but will wear a dosen rotting dresses at once. Maybe some inv slots have limit on the clothes number, and some not? [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I recall a post on the forums that said it's best not to produce clothing at all, and start a dwarven nudist colony. That method is a simple solution that prevents unhappy thoughts from accumulating. I don't think it maximizes happiness, though, as Dwarves get happy thoughts from making satisfying acquisitions. [[User:Non|Non]] 03:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:: No good idea. Not having clothes gives an unhappy thought for every separate piece of clothes missing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::not so. dwarves get(used to, removed this version) an unhappy thought for LOSING each piece of clothing, but once its gone(or if they started with none) there is no unhappy thought. they are perfectly fine and happy being naked, once the sadness of rotting clothes wears off --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::: I once had the thought "XY was embarrassed to have no shirt lately". cant swear if he had one before that thought or not, but dont rotting clothes give a different thought "emb. about...clothes rot away"? It still might be that he gets that thought only once. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Artifact Cave Spider Silk Thong ==

All right, given that you probably ''are'' going to make exotic underwear with cave spider silk... couldn't it at least be something that the dwarf who made it was going to ''wear'' rather than something which is rare for humans?

Oh well, when my clothier passes over I will have something fantastic to sell which is also very light I guess![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:47, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Why bother? ==

Am I missing something? Is there any reason at all to provide new clothes for dwarfs? --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 09:27, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:You mean other than the fact that if old clothes start to rot the dwarf wearing said clothing gets an unhappy thought? I highly doubt that's been removed since the last version I was semi-familiar with. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 13:52, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Ah. Well, I built a HUGE dining room. Its taken two years to fully smooth it, but now any dwarf who eats instantly becomes either ecstatic, happy, or, if they're whole family was killed and they had to sleep on the ground by the rotting corpses, they might just be content. Wow, writing that once again reminded me how totally R rated this game would be if it were 3d. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::BDR- it was taken out in the latest release because of problems. Once it works right, Toady said he was going to bring it back, but for the current version and immediate future, clothes are just a waste of effort.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 16:36, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::: Here I have a massive clothing industry sitting idle, unemployed dyers starting fights, and dear Toady is off figuring out how many ribs dwarves have and whether skin can be flayed. My civilization yearns to be built on green silk cravats, not the torturer's arts. :) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 17:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, there's still the awesome value of having your dwarves swank around in fancy clothes. Plus adamantine clothes provide more protection than most pieces of more conventionally-manufactured plate-level armour if I'm not mistaken, which might prove worthwhile if you happen to strike adamantium and only have legendary clothiers.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:40, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Hahaha, I have to note here that there is one very, very practical reason to give your dwarves clothes: If it's cold and they have body parts exposed, they will freeze, and the nerve damage from this is permanent. My glacial fortress suffers from chronic brainfreeze epidemics in babies and soldiers, and they don't even get to eat any ice cream. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:45, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Frequency ratings ==
How common is common? It seems like every goblin invasion has had about 4 or 5 iron masks, about 50% of goblins, so it doesn't seem like they are that uncommon. Is this on the threshold of uncommon? Do others get this many masks? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:11, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I've been playing for a couple months, and I've never seen one. So, uh, maybe it's something to do with the specific culture of the goblin civilization that's attacking you. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:01, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::That would make sense, I might start a new fortress else where, and see if I get as many. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Separating ==

Is there anyway to separate dwarf-sized clothing from goblin & kobold sized clothing? I've been messing with my stockpiles, but can't seem to sort them out. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:14, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I've been working under the assumption that the {{key|u}} usable and {{key|j}} unusable toggles on many of the stockpile pages provide this functionality. I ''think'' it works, but I generally don't really pay that much attention to such matters... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 11:59, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Clothing appears to be sorted as a "finished good" though, which doesn't have those toggles. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:56, 8 September 2008 (EDT)