Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:N9103

2015-05-21T19:07:41Z

N9103: Clean slate

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== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==
 
 

== Problems/mistakes/corrections ==
Forgive me for the occasional slip up. Just make a note here of where I managed to screw up, so that I may endeavor to learn from my mistakes.

User:N9103

2015-05-21T19:05:30Z

N9103: Revamp

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{| align=right
|+ [[Image:Crayon_Art_-_N9103.jpg|thumb|May 2015]]
|-
|+ {{Crayon art|N9103}}
|}
Long time lurker/player. 
Not often on Wiki. 
Frequently seen in Other Games. 
 
Recently became a Champion.

File:Crayon Art - N9103.jpg

2015-05-21T18:36:34Z

N9103: May 2015 Crayon Art Original 5100x6600 600dpi Uploaded with ~85% compression level.

May 2015 Crayon Art
Original 5100x6600 600dpi
Uploaded with ~85% compression level.

DF2014 Talk:Dwarf

2015-05-21T14:51:47Z

N9103: /* Crayon Art Rewards */ location reason

{{newpage|type=cp|109.218.162.86}}

== Crayon Art Rewards ==

It seems there is no unified space here or on the forum, or at least not a well named/labelled one, for sharing crayon art rewards that people have received.
I would be happy to upload and share it with the community.
Posting here because the reward is depicting a dwarf.

If there is a preexisting solution to this problem, please let me know. ─[[User:N9103|N9103]] [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=11307 Forum Profile] 14:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

DF2014 Talk:Dwarf

2015-05-21T14:50:04Z

N9103: /* Crayon Art Rewards */ new section

{{newpage|type=cp|109.218.162.86}}

== Crayon Art Rewards ==

It seems there is no unified space here or on the forum, or at least not a well named/labelled one, for sharing crayon art rewards that people have received.
I would be happy to upload and share it with the community.

If there is a preexisting solution to this problem, please let me know. ─[[User:N9103|N9103]] [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=11307 Forum Profile] 14:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation

2010-08-07T13:58:15Z

N9103: /* Current state */

== From [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion|DFW:Centralized Discussion]] ==
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::Gems are definitely going to have to be consolidated into their own article. Ores and other valuable stones have too much relevant information to stuff in a table, although the worthless stuff like microcline or slate should definitely be relegated to Table Land (presumably we'd have a Stones page, with extra pages for stuff like obsidian or hematite). I think following the example of articles from 40d is a good idea. -- 114.77.43.223
:::What is there to know about Hematite except what it makes and where it's found? What makes it so useful is the metal, which is better described in the Iron page. Seems perfect for a table to me, alongside the myriad other ores that get mined and smelted exactly the same way. Obsidian on the other hand has a fairly unique property that wouldn't be well-described in the valuable stones table alone. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.242.69|71.17.242.69]] 06:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree that ores/stones/gems should be in combined articles. I think I could work on something like this today. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 16:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
:Minerals having their own pages is fine with me. There's a bit of information that can be included on the odd page as well as values, pictures and a wikipedia link. Time is better spent elsewhere. One area that could use some looking into is which material is best for each weapon on the weapons article. It currently doesn't have any information on this at all. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
::What are minerals? *SCNR* --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
::The "best material" thing is likely to be in flux for some time until Toady gets the damage calculations and so on working. Eventually I'd expect to see something like this in the weapon articles though, naturally. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Generally I don't think "stubs" are a bad thing. Fish cleaner, fishery and fish cleaning may be put in one article+2 redirects, but there are other topics where there is not much to say, and that's just fine, too. With barely 1000 articles it is also rather silly to talk of clutter. How does Wikipedia manage then? Making ''additional'' guides and summarizations is of course useful (and linking to them).
::Stubs that stay stubs are a bad thing. They bury searches in useless results. Wikipedia does not have the problem of filling in hundreds of EMPTY articles following a premade structure that may no longer be relevant or even sensible. And if they're staying stubs, really, they don't deserve a page. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 01:09, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Er, that was me. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure why microcline should have it's own article..actually, it should. What I - and a lot of players? - like to do is dig down, find a new stone, look it up. Not just if it's valuable, but also in what layers it appears and if its worth to dig through it into the base layer that may contain interesting or specific stuff. So even when i see that microcline really is everywhere i may decide to not dig on there when I'm looking for, say, platinum. In any case I didn't like the way the table for "generic" stone was organized in the 40d space. As for gems I think we should have both. An article for every gem so i can just check it's value when I find it (before I mine it) without needing the browser search function to find it in a pages-long table, but a table too so we have a central place where one can compare gems with each other. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
:A table would accomplish all that a lot better than an eternally empty stub or a fancy illustration of microcline would. Why couldn't it have a column for value? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
::I'd also add that when you did a search for, say, Diamond, it would bring you to /whatever/page#Diamond but for some reason not forward you to Diamond in the page. That could probably be fixed, so the search would work for you too. --[[Special:Contributions/71.17.241.117|71.17.241.117]] 03:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
:::That'll be because there's no heading "Diamond" on the Gem page, so the #Diamond part of the URL is effectively discarded. It'd be great if it could jump you to the right part of the table (i.e. where you end up when you hit Ctrl-F and type it in again) but I suspect that's a non-trivial job. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::Are we clear on the definition of the word 'stub' here? If all there is to say about, say, granite is captured by the table (it's a low-value layer stone, these are its melting & boiling points, whatever) then does the fact that there isn't much text to go with it actually matter? The pictures from Commons and real-world info are nice (and don't fit into a table, though links to WP do of course) but they don't add game value to the article.
::I think I just convinced myself I ike having both pages and tables. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 12:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

By all means, create your giant tables and combined articles. Nobody will be against more useful content. However, please don't destroy the already existing stone and gem pages. If you really want them gone, we can discuss it ''after'' you've made a suitable replacement. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:42, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
: Well of course we'd want to replace them with a more useful resource before we remove them, and I also see the potential value in having specific pages, and also table pages. So I might start working on that [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 13:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Lumping everything into a table just means more work for a new player to find the information they are looking for. Sure, it seems obvious to anyone that's played for more than a day that microcline is pretty but worthless, but new players shouldn't be forced to scroll through potentially confusing tables to find what they want. But big tables DO have value players both new and old, so having BOTH mega-tables and individual pages is the best solution, in my opinion. The individual pages should however have very clear links to the main stone/gem/ore/etc. pages, plus any information that may be unique to that object. Don't make it hard on newcomers just to "tidy things up" or whatever. A wiki is about getting the relevant information to the user, and if the user wants to know about microcline, it should be as simple as typing it into the box. (on an unrelated note, I apparently don't understand talk pages? why isn't mine signed like everyone elses?)
:I don't see how having the individual pages forwarding to these, quiet small really, tables would make it harder to find information. If anything it would be easier to find similar types of that item or other things in the same layer. The signature is done if you type ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces and is generally prefixed with a -- like so --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:58, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::You really think this [[40d:Stone]] is a good way of presenting information, especially to new players? Particularly if they just struck, um, orthoclase? Well obviously you do, and other editors too. Well, I don't. [[40d:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] is better, but still far from clearly laid out, complete and easily digested. This is not the editors fault, it's just too much info for a table (so either info is missing or it's bloated). (I ''do'' think, though, that both articles are a valuable ''addition'' to the wiki) If I enter orthoclase, I want info on orthoclase. I don't want to read 4 pages and then find orthoclase on the 5th, if I'm patient and lucky, and ''then'' learn less than from an "empty" "stub" like [[40d:Kimberlite]]. Lets make this wiki usable for all players? --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:::2 more things:
:::1) stubs: A WP stub is an article that does not contain ''enough'' info or might not even merit an article at all. This does not apply here. The possible lemmata are very limited and this will always be a really small wiki. A lemma is relevant if it is a game term. If there is not much to say about it, then the player has already gained enough from knowing ''that''. Short articles are '''good''' if they are complete.
:::2) "clutter": Only auditors[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality] even perceive that. Not users. We have all the (name-)space in the world. I can imagine topics where info can be too fragmented if an overview article is missing, but have a look at how it's not trivial to even make clear what the [[40d:Restraint]] article is actually about; chains, ropes and restraints (AKA "Huh, why have i been redirected here??"). --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 15:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Right now, when the wiki's just an empty skeleton, users can perceive the clutter quite clearly. And the bigger the skeleton, the more work there is to do. Pages can always be split out later if need be, but consolidation needs to happen now if ever. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Just chiming in to say all this talk of clutter is utter nonsense. [[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] and [[User:Birthright|Birthright]] have it spot on. There's no point in consolidation if it hurts the target audience's ability to find information quickly and easily. Since the '''primary''' target are new players, forcing them to sift through a table for a specific stone they just struck is going to make the wiki far less useful to them. Also, (as OA observed) people seem to be perceiving a problem where there isn't one. Just because there isn't much to say about something, doesn't mean that it isn't saying everything it need to, to deserve it's own article. And one last point for Corona: If the wiki's an empty skeleton now, then it will be always be one. It's unlikely that, even if all the core and bloat items are finished, there will be a '''HUGE''' amount of content as compared to now. There will be lots more, definitely, but enough to justify a skeleton comparison between then and now? Not at all. Users only see clutter if they're interested in the overall framework of the wiki... New users simply aren't. If you're concerned about mass-management of articles, might I suggest you work with an Admin on getting a bot or two set-up to do some of the repetitive work done across multiple articles? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== How about summary and individual pages? ==

So it seems like we have a lot of points about the value of individual pages, as well as the value of "combined" pages. How about then we take each article that would apply to: [[DF2010:Ore]] / [[DF2010:Gems]] / [[DF2010:Stone]] and put a single line at the top saying something to the effect of:
:''To view details on all <ore/gem/stones> see here''.
I think this gives value to users who want to look up a specific item, and also to users who want to see similar items. Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 16:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:That seems to be the way many people, myself included, are leaning. --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:Though should 'Gems' not be singular for consistency? --[[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 17:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think this would be the way to go. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::Details details ;). Yes, it should. Let's wait for some more comments on this. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:I'm not sold on the value of individual pages. Particularly when most of them aren't and won't ever be filled with anything but raws info, except the ones people have helpfully added spiffy pictures to. Most of the arguments '''against''' tables here are arguments against ugly table arrangements, not tables in general. If we put them in a table -- a '''good table''' with relevant information as one mineral per row, properly fast-forwarded to by the search -- it will be every bit as relevant and informative as the individual article without the search spam. Having both essentially doubles the work and threatens to make the articles go out of sync with each other. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 06:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
::Well, there has been some suggestions on having those pages. Having small articles isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as harmful to the wiki as a whole as long as users can still get information easily. In that sense I agree the value may be low, and perhaps not widespread, but the cost is effectively zero as long as we have a link to the "general" page... so why not? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 13:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
::Hard to get them out of sync if the data's pulled from the raws, I'd say. As far as I can see from the stone lookup template the raws in question are being stored somewhere centrally anyhow, so they should always be equal. -- [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 09:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::If the raws are being stored centrally, there's even less reason to have the separate pages -- they perform no function but repeating data stored elsewhere. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

: I think, having both (table AND individual pages) would be the best solution. Reasons are the same already listed above. New players type hematite in the search and want to find infos about hematite! Looking a gigantic table with tons of info is to much for a little starting dwarf. By the way i think that all infromation about the stones can't be listed in a single table --[[User:Used|Used]] 10:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly. It isn't feasible to pack all of the information about every stone into one table. There isn't any danger of the pages being destroyed as long as nobody tries it while there's no good replacement for them. This is because you will never get to the point where even the creator of such a table thinks it's a good replacement. But please, carry on discussing what would be good or bad to do if you were ever handed one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::It's completely viable to pack the vast majority of stones into a table. The only relevant info for the vast majority of stones is "grey, sedimentary, sheets, melts at 13000", why have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of this? Only the vanishingly few with any characteristics whatsoever deserve their own pages. And, for the n+1st time, finding the hematite entry in an ore table is finding perfectly good information about hematite. It's an ore that's smelted to make iron -- just like all the other ores, identical but for color, weight, layer, and melting points, are smelted to make other metals in completely identical ways. As long as the search fast-forwards properly to the anchors, all they're missing is a fancy picture of hematite. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:58, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Really, that's the one point I don't see being acknowledged by anyone else here. Ores, stones, and gems '''are''' all nearly identical, differing in a very limited number of ways. Individual pages thus add no content and make a lot more work. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If you think you can do it, my words aren't going to stop you. None of this talk is going to mean anything until (UNLESS) such an all-encompassing table has been made. Your rational choices are reduced to the following: put up or shut up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::This could be taken more harsh then you probably intended. Just saying. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::It's meant entirely as harsh as it sounds, I'm quite sure of that. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::You wanted me to do it? Wow. I got the impression you wanted the precise opposite. Okay. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::I've gotten halfway through making a raws-to-table generator script then got flattened by work and work stress and lack of sleep. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't understand the argument "it's more work" when there are people who WANT to make the pages. This isn't a company, we aren't on any sort of deadline, and people contribute what they want to contribute. And if they want to contribute pages for each stone, let them. I myself was quite frustrated with the stone and gem tables when I was first starting DF.-- [[User:Turkwise|Turkwise]] 02:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Would you have been as frustrated if they were a) sensible, b) searchable? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 03:52, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::They probably wouldn't, but I agree that talking about not having pages because they could be replaced by a table which doesn't quite exist, isn't really that valuable. I agree that if you think this table could be done well then give it a shot and let's see how it turns out. It looks like a few others have tried to make such a table but I really don't think it's a suitable replacement as-is, agreed? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

::I,too, can only repeat: The tables (the 3 or 4 on stone and gem I can think of right now) are good, valuable, but not good ''enough'' to replace the separate articles for a beginner. So those who want the tables: just go ahead and present some concepts. After all, no one wants to delete tables, so the wiki can only get better? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

=== Current state ===

It looks like the current state is that we think a table article for gems/stones is a good idea and should exist.
That if we're going to replace the individual articles with a single one it has to meet some standards the current ones don't meet.
Corona688 (anyone else?) is taking a stab at making a suitable replacement.
In the meantime we'll continue as-is until we have a viable potential replacement to consider.
Everyone on board with this? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:I am on board with tabling the discussion until a proposed replacement exists. This is '''not''' implicit agreement to delete individual articles if a "replacement" is made. Also, I think Corona has given up on making his table (correct me if I'm wrong here). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

::Separate tables for Gems/Stone/Ore is not such a great idea, because it assumes the user already knows the category. This was often not the case when I went looking for a "You struck <whatever>". I recommend a table that lists everything, with links to the separate articles/sub-tables. Here is an example for consideration [[User:AngleWyrm|- AngleWyrm]] 03:27, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
::{| class="wikitable sortable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
!Name !!Type !!Value !!class="unsortable"|Location !!class="unsortable"|Notes
|-
|Alexanderite ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"
| Granite || small clusters
|-
|Schist ||small clusters
|-
|Marble ||veins
|}
||
|-
|Almondine ||[[Gem|Semi-precious gem]] ||20 ||
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"
|Metaphoric layers ||small clusters
|-
|Diorite ||small clusters
|-
|Gabbro ||small clusters
|}
||
|-
|[[Galena]] ||[[Ore]] ||15 ||
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"
|Metamorphic layers ||veins
|-
|Igneous Extrusive layers ||veins
|-
|Granite ||veins
|-
|Limestone ||veins
|}
||Ore of silver(50%), Ore of lead, make billon bars (use ore), make electrum bars (use ore)
|}

If you can make that table use search headers (such that you'll be taken to the specific line when you do a search on the wikibox,) then that would be a good consolidation format. if you can't make it do that, then it's pointless, and just makes a larger mess for a new user to look at, be intimidated by, and decide to walk away from the wiki, if not the game. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:58, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation

2010-08-07T13:50:19Z

N9103: /* From DFW:Centralized Discussion */ Consolidation = Bad for new players and new users.

User talk:StrongAxe

2010-04-18T03:27:03Z

N9103: /* Greetings */ new section

==Deletion==

Simply place <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> or a <nowiki>{{del|reason}}</nowiki> on the page in question and we'll get to it. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:51, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== Greetings ==

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since you should try to follow wiki standards, and you probably don't know ours yet, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is a template, not a customized message for you.
* To tell us who you are when you talk, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Don't put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. In general, put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Putting things in the wrong sections is confusing. You can create a section!
* Generally, [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] They're like a little constitution, except not boring! Really, read them.
* Read the [[df:Announcements|site announcements]] regularly, they contain important info.
* Check up on the [[df:Manual of Style|manual of style]] occasionally, it's still being written, but will contain important style info soon.
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<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

(Point #3 is what got you this greeting. Welcome to the Wiki -[[User:N9103|Edward]])

User talk:Smd

2010-04-18T03:26:32Z

N9103: greetz

User:N9103

2010-04-10T14:13:06Z

N9103: ok, I lied, now I'm done. (moved some info from talk to main.

__NOTOC__

'''N9103 = Edward''' 
=My Odds and Ends=
Useful things not well documented elsewhere, or placed here for easy reference. (Comments welcome) 
[http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1424-aq1 Equi-area Aquifer Breaching] Courtesy of [[User:VengefulDonut|VD]]

=Status of the Fortress=
No current fort, and I'm waiting until the Army Arc release to start a serious game again. 
Various little fun/niche forts being run to stay familiar with the version(s) of the game out. 
If there aren't major features available in the latest version, I'm probably running the last major version with many utilities available. 

=Latest Mods=
===Sometimes In Use===
None Yet, Still getting my hands on the new version.
===Not In Use===
None Yet, Still getting my hands on the new version.
===Previously Tried out===
'''Enjoyed and Recommended''' 
[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jackard Jackard's Redjack] 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18474.0 Simplicity Mod] (Abandoned by creator) - Very nice for those of you that love the mechanics of the game, but hate having material lists 20 pages long (e.g. furniture placement!) 
With only a handful of each of the common material types (metal, wood, stone) item placement is no longer a minute-long ordeal just to place a single piece of any quality furniture of a specific type. 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22554.0 Fallout Mod] - Sheer Epic Win.
==Plan to Try==
Got an interesting Mod you think I should try out? [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User:N9103&action=edit&section=7 Tell me] about it! 
I enjoy trying all the different flavors of DF. 
Thorough testing isn't a requirement, but it is preferred. I'd rather any bugs I find end up being rare.

User talk:VengefulDonut

2010-04-10T14:11:06Z

N9103: /* Aquifer Breach */ new section

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since you should try to follow wiki standards, and you probably don't know ours yet, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is a template, not a customized message for you.
* To tell us who you are when you talk, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Don't put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. In general, put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Putting things in the wrong sections is confusing. You can create a section!
* Generally, [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] They're like a little constitution, except not boring! Really, read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

== Extension request ==

Ok, I'll see about getting all three of those installed this weekend then. [[User:Briess|Briess]] 14:52, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
: All three of the extensions you listed seem to either cause PHP to die a horrible death or are incompatible with ParserFunctions. Are there any other extensions that fulfill the same purpose? I'll look into what I can do to make the extensions you listed work, but I'm no PHP guru. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 01:10, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
::After an extreme period of laziness, I would like to direct your attention to [[:Special:Version]] (I installed the extension you requested. Sorry about the delay :V) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 11:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::: I'll look into what I need to do to update the number of regex evaluations first thing tomorrow morning. Any specific number you're looking for? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 04:29, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
:::: It's a bit more complex than I had hoped to increase the regex evaluations limit; I'll have to spend more time on this tomorrow to get it working. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 03:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
::::: I got several of the random limits increased that deal with this, but I'm possibly missing a few other random template limits that may later become an issue. If they do, just let me know. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

Hrm, ok. Do you happen to have a copy of the favicon image somewhere? I couldn't find it in the copy I received of the wiki. [[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:56, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:I don't think I had a valid favicon, I just had an empty file to remove all the 404 errors. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Internal Error when submitting screenshot ==

Hey Donut, I saw your name on the screenshot template page so I hope you're the right person to talk to! When I try to upload an image, I'm getting an Internal Error reading "The upload directory (public) is not writable by the webserver." What do I do? --[[User:KenboCalrissian|KenboCalrissian]] 13:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
:[[User:Briess|Briess]] is the new server admin. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Russian Interwiki ==

Do you happen to have the webserver address for the russian wiki? I wasn't able to recover that from the db dumps when I took over the wiki, unfortunately. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Ads ==

You might be interested in looking into Firefox and AdBlockPlus. Had no idea the new host even had ads on the pages until I noticed your post in the current events. (After coming from a very long forced vacation, admittedly.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

== Wagn ==

Other than server maintainability (I'll be able to drop the PHP stack on the dfwiki backend server); the big three are:
*Uptime. I'm sick (and I'm sure others are sick of it too) of getting an email at 3:30 in the morning from the server saying that PHP has crashed. Again. because of one of many known mediawiki bugs.
*Wagn offers much more extensive inter relational features for articles (cards).
*End users can directly modify HTML for layouts and looks of pages.
--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:38, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

== [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] ==
Based on your comments and input on the administration requests pages I thought you might be interested in this kind of discussion. Please bring in your comments on this page and on it's talk page and let everyone know what you think. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 20:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

:== What about <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:version|version]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>? ==

Did you have something like this in mind? [[:category:version]] [[template:version]] (: [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

: I did see that before and I think that's awesome as notes about particular items in an article, but it doesn't quite bring us to the two goals I hoped for [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions|here]]. It informs users about a statement but because of the difficulty (and undesirability) of labeling every statement in an article I think a single template per article can bring something different to the table. I hope you don't mind but I copied your comment and my response to the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions|versions talk page]] so others can contribute to this and expand on it. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 21:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

:Could you drop by and comment on "consensus" again? [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#Consensus.3F] [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 00:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:Right, but the goal as I understood it is to maintain a persistent archive of old material, which would require a copy of every page as eventually something will be affected. As per the double redirect situation, I'll be working on that tonight. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 02:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::Unfortunately, no, there's no way for me to just copy the pages. I figure that we move everything to 40d, have the main namespace redirect there, and once we have to edit an article, edit the redirect to become an article again. Eventually, every article will probably be edited in some way, shape, or form and thus will need to be moved out anyways. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 02:16, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Doing so greatly increases the server resources required to serve up both wikis. This only increases disk space usage, which is nearly limitless. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 02:21, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:::: Re: [[:Category:Creatures]] : awwww, fuck. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 23:05, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

== Slightly Annoyed ==

Being a furry is not "who you are". It's an association people make by choice. Unlike race and gender, it's not genetically coded into you.
Unlike religion, it's not fueled by deep rooted conviction. It's an arbitrary and ultimately meaningless label that people can choose either to attach
or not attach to themselves on a whim. VengefulDonut 00:11, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Considering the application has been accepted, and my responding to you there would break the conversation on that page, I'll respond here. (A little late, I suppose) "Who you are" is defined by a LOT more than just the genetic coding that went into making you. Your personality and opinions are shaped by the actions of your environment upon you as you develop. (Your environment includes other people) A person, who they are, is defined by their actions. I am an artist, not because my blood says I am, but because I got bored in school and drew so much I just happened to get good at it and kept going. My brother is a musician because he likes women and music is good at attracting them, but he's become quite involved in the music scene itself, unrelated to his initial goal. "Who you are" is different from "What you are". --Kydo 14:10, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

:I will allow your definition of terms. In this context, my argument would become that discrimination based on "who you are" rather than "what you are" is acceptable.
:You didn't even have do all that work to make me allow that. I will use words with whatever meaning you want the words to have, as long as we both know what the meaning is. If necessary, I can just make up a new word to fill the gap of the word you redefined. (: [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:12, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, this is a pretty basic concept at the moment, dude. The whole nature versus nurture issue of what defines us as people. It's part of that weird overlap between experimental psychology and philosophy. These days most people pretty much agree that who you grow up to become is heavily influenced by your experiences in life, with genetics only holding a foundation which defines how you are most likely to react to certain things at a face value. Like, disliking certain flavors is caused by how your brain processes that information, not your experiences. --Kydo 13:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

==Not what you know, but who you know...==
But I can't remove <nowiki>{{mod}}</nowiki> from it because it's locked
Hey! Good catch - done. And any time see a need for something, absolutely, no problem, just lemme know. (I assume you didn't RA because of time/energy, obviously not b/c of qualification or interest.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:29, 12 March 2010 (UTC) 
btw - you don't think the [[Modding Guide]] deserves that category and warning template? I'd think that is the essence of what that's for, no?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:44, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The article is about how to make mods, not about particular mods
:Sure, but that template does more than label a mod as such. It does (at least) two other things that are directly related - first, it's a (friendly) warning, which is not out of place on that page imo, and it also adds that page to the "modding" category, which is again approp. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

== DF2010 ==

:"it feels good to spread it"? I'm "proud"?, Wow... haha. I named an article something succinct and people continue to use it. It isn't some ego high I get when I see other people use it as you seem to be suggesting, although I find that hilarious.
:The reality is that people will put things in the wiki and they need to use SOME word/phrase/term to refer to the upcoming version of DF, and "The upcoming version of DF" doesn't exactly have the kind of ring to it that people would use. Having them all use the same name for it makes it substantially easier to search for and update then thousands of phrases like "the next version", "post-40d" "the upcoming version", "the yet-to-be-released version". Basically people WILL make references to the next version in this wiki as long as information exists about it, and having them all use the same name (even if it isn't accurate) is certainly more helpful then everyone using whatever name they choose. I'm skeptical there will be another major release version (that we will have in it's own namespace) in 2010 anyways. Basically I disagree with your assessment of the harm I've done, and I disagree with your assessment that I get some kind of pleasure out of people using some random name, but I'm glad you took my joke on the versions talk page so seriously. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 18:59, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

:::I re-read your memssage a few times and I suppose I could have taken it in a different manner and so I removed my last message. It appears that after your initial assumption about my intentions it was hard for me to AGF with regard to you.
:::I still disagree with your concern about the use of the name, and I disagree that we should encourage people not to use that name. A single name now is better then no name, and that one has already stuck. If we can replace it with the real name later then so be it but I don't think the use of the name should be cause for concern.

== Re: Bot Edit Request ==

I was already planning to do that, the way I want to do it is just a little more involved than previous scripts. I want it to change them if they're non-namespace links, and then if the page has any red links after the change, to add {{tl|Red link}} to the top, so that we have a nice way to find what redirect chains need to be fixed. It's the second half of this that's a little trickier than just going through and changing them. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== Article Names ==

Article names only with the first word capitalised? I'm assuming this is the rule you were quoting: "Naming: The titles of new pages should be singular nouns, with only the first word capitalized. Example: Screw pump, Metalsmith's forge, Gear assembly." The next sentence was "Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural." I am fully aware of this convention, and always attempt to follow it. The only articles I can think of where I capitalised more that the first word were proper nouns. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 01:17, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Mineral template ==

Wow, that's neat. I just made one minor tweak to not make it list everything as "layers" since, well, only layer stones are layers. I'm not quite sure how those templates work, but it would probably suffice to have it only append "layers" if it's an ENVIRONMENT token (as opposed to ENVIRONMENT_SPEC which can be a layer stone, a large cluster, a vein, or even a small cluster). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:43, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

:Hehehe. I was just considering whether to comment on your page about that same issue. I guess we're on the same page :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:45, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
::Just noticed that the environment links (i.e. stone types or layer types) aren't being reinterpreted into the current namespace. I'm not even going to try fixing the template, since it's highly likely I'd just break it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:19, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Ah. Oops. I'll nab that next. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Aquifer Breach ==

Any word on getting part 5 up? I noticed it's still not up, but there's no info as to it getting remade/abandoned either. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 14:11, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:N9103

2010-04-10T14:05:39Z

N9103: revamp... long overdue!

__NOTOC__
If I left anything on your User or Talk page, feel free to remove it after a month of inactivity, as I'll be doing the same. 
Wiki's have history for a reason, and non-relevant info is best left behind, as you can probably see from my own Talk's [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:N9103&action=history History page].

== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==

== Problems/mistakes/corrections ==
Forgive me for the occasional slip up. Just make a note here of where I managed to screw up, so that I may endeavor to learn from my mistakes.

User talk:N9103

2010-04-10T13:54:55Z

N9103: /* Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here */

__NOTOC__

== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==

== Problems/mistakes/corrections ==
Forgive me for the occasional slip up. Just make a note here of where I managed to screw up, so that I may endeavor to learn from my mistakes. 

== Re: gallery ==

Oh, that's right. I didn't even notice that that was one of the no-diagonal-movement rooms. I just threw some interesting looking things together without examining them too closely. Yeah, we should definitely replace it with something else. Unfortunately, all of my ideas are already there. Do you have any? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, feel free to add anything that strikes your fancy. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

See response, [[User talk:Albedo]] --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Something from a while ago ==

It's been over a year since I asked if anyone wanted me to put together a multi-level aquifer guide, but I finally got around to it. You can see it [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1424-aq1 here]. This meets the posed requirements (top level same size as bottom; it's relatively simple; it's also pretty fast) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:I capped the frame rate (to 20 I think) so that the file size wouldn't get too large. Also, If I went through it at the usual game speed then they each could have ended up nine minutes long or so D: [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Part 5 is recorded, but since the size it a little larger I can't upload it through the system. I emailed it to Markavian, so hopefully he will put it up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Ads ==

Haha. I'll admit I've never actually seen the ads for a similar reason. I was just poking the bear :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:10, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

== [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] ==
Based on your comments and input on the administration requests pages I thought you might be interested in this kind of discussion. Please bring in your comments on this page and on it's talk page and let everyone know what you think. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 20:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

User:N9103

2010-04-10T13:54:27Z

N9103: final format

__NOTOC__

'''N9103 = Edward''' 
=My Odds and Ends=
My current fort/build/whatever it happens to be at the time. 

=Status of the Fortress=
No current fort, and I'm waiting until the Army Arc release to start a serious game again. 
Various little fun/niche forts being run to stay familiar with the version(s) of the game out. 
If there aren't major features available in the latest version, I'm probably running the last major version with many utilities available. 

=Latest Mods=
===Sometimes In Use===
None Yet, Still getting my hands on the new version.
===Not In Use===
None Yet, Still getting my hands on the new version.
===Previously Tried out===
'''Enjoyed and Recommended''' 
[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jackard Jackard's Redjack] 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18474.0 Simplicity Mod] (Abandoned by creator) - Very nice for those of you that love the mechanics of the game, but hate having material lists 20 pages long (e.g. furniture placement!) 
With only a handful of each of the common material types (metal, wood, stone) item placement is no longer a minute-long ordeal just to place a single piece of any quality furniture of a specific type. 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22554.0 Fallout Mod] - Sheer Epic Win.
==Plan to Try==
Got an interesting Mod you think I should try out? [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User:N9103&action=edit&section=7 Tell me] about it! 
I enjoy trying all the different flavors of DF. 
Thorough testing isn't a requirement, but it is preferred. I'd rather any bugs I find end up being rare.

User:N9103

2010-04-10T13:48:15Z

N9103: /* Not In Use */

__NOTOC__

'''N9103 = Edward''' 
=My Odds and Ends=
Comments on my current fort/build/whatever it happens to be at the time, are quite welcome and encouraged. 

=Status of the Fortress=
No current fort, and I'm waiting until the Army Arc release to start a serious game again. 

=Latest Mods=
==Sometimes In Use==
==Not In Use==
===Tried out===
'''Enjoyed and Recommended''' 
[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jackard Jackard's Redjack] 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18474.0 Simplicity Mod] (Abandoned by creator) - Very nice for those of you that love the mechanics of the game, but hate having material lists 20 pages long (e.g. furniture placement!) 
With only a handful of each of the common material types (metal, wood, stone) item placement is no longer a minute-long ordeal just to place a single piece of any quality furniture of a specific type. 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22554.0 Fallout Mod] - Sheer Epic Win.
==Plan to Try==
Got an interesting Mod you think I should try out? [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User_talk:N9103&action=edit&section=2 Tell me] about it! 
I enjoy trying all the different flavors of DF. 
Thorough testing isn't a requirement, but it is preferred. I'd rather any bugs I find end up being rare. 
</pre>

User:N9103

2010-04-10T13:43:47Z

N9103: revamp... long overdue!

__NOTOC__

'''N9103 = Edward''' 
=My Odds and Ends=
Comments on my current fort/build/whatever it happens to be at the time, are quite welcome and encouraged. 

=Status of the Fortress=
No current fort, and I'm waiting until the Army Arc release to start a serious game again. 

=Latest Mods=
==Sometimes In Use==
==Not In Use==
===Tried out===
'''Enjoyed''' 
[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jackard Jackard's Redjack] 
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18474.0 Simplicity Mod] (Abandoned by creator) - Very nice for those of you that love the mechanics of the game, but hate having material lists 20 pages long (e.g. furniture placement!) 
With only a handful of each of the common material types (metal, wood, stone) item placement is no longer a minute-long ordeal just to place a single piece of any quality furniture of a specific type.
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22554.0 Fallout Mod] - Sheer Epic Win.
===Plan to Try===
Got an interesting Mod you think I should try out? 
[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=User_talk:N9103&action=edit&section=2 Tell me] about it! 
I enjoy trying all the different flavors of DF. 
Thorough testing isn't a requirement, but it is preferred. 
I'd rather any bugs I find end up being rare. 
</pre>

User talk:VengefulDonut

2010-02-25T21:42:49Z

N9103: /* RE: Ads */ new section

Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Request for Adminship/Albedo

2010-02-25T21:37:45Z

N9103: /* Support */ Casting my lot.

==Administrator Candidacy Questionnaire==
===Why would I be a good Administrator?===
I just added my name to the list for '''Asst. Admin''' for this site. As a site User, I've tried to support the Admin as best I can, editing with comments, posting links to the Guidelines on over-enthusiastic newbie's pages, stuff like that. I'm active on site most days/week. And if you could see the look on my face, you'd know I'm not over-eager for this, which is a good thing. It's always dangerous to hire people who volunteer, but I have the time and energy, so... why not?

If you care about "What has Albedo done?", here are some things I'd not blush about if someone were to mention them:

* Instituted a use for [[current events]] page, where you just read about my application.

* Complete edit of more articles than I can remember - not "rewrite" (altho' that too), but just re-organizing and formatting what was there and tying it together.

* Re-organized all the randomly titled design pages into formal "X design" article format.

* Added the [[Welcome]] template to more newcomers than I can remember.

* Added more redirects and disambigs than I care to remember (including [[welcome]], among others).

* Just added all this info to my User page moments before Briess instituted this form. :P

Meh - In short, I'm active enough and have a decent sense of writing and organization, both for a single article and for a collection of them.

Vote me. Yay. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

====Supporting Evidence====
[[Special:Contributions/Albedo]]
& more recently: [[Special:Contributions/75.62.155.145]]

:Link to any articles you are particularly proud of.

* Conceived of [[vein|veins and clusters]] page, combining many random pages into that one article. My first solo article.
* Re-organized and partially re-wrote the various and scattered "defense" pages ([[Defense guide]], [[Defense design]], [[Military design]], [[Trap design]], and related others) into their current format. See [[Talk:Fortress_defense#Merging_in_other_articles_and_defining_what_this_page_should_be|Talk: Fortress Defense]]for an idea of what it was before. This was a [[demon|bitch]], as it was a complete [[Losing|cluster]] before. Established editing policies in an attempt to never go there again. (Open any of those pages to edit and read <-Notes to editors->), and/or see relevant [[Talk:Defense design|discussion pages]]).

* Consulting on the Talk pages, conceived and/or wrote or re-wrote the current [[armor]], [[armor piece]], [[weapon]], [[dwarven weapon]] and [[other weapon]] page collection, thus ''removing every single redundant article on every individual weapon and piece of armor in existence.'' Sheesh, as if.

* Edited, formatted and organized the [[Color schemes]] page so the colors and differences could actually be seen at a glance, and the process understood (even by a newb!).

* Saw the need, created this tag and implemented its use:
{{Mod}}

==Public Q&A==
*'''Q''': What sort of things would you like to do with the admin tools that you currently are unable to do. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 11:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

*'''A''': A lot depends on what my tasked duties and rights are as co-Admin and what the "party line" is on improvements - the question is moot if my leash is a short one (and I'd expect it to be at first, at least). But, answering blind, I'd like to see the "build-a-diagram" process easier to use - if some internal coding could make that easier, that would be sweet. Maybe a page of standard tables, and a step-by-step tutorial "how to" for mid-level editing techniques like sortable tables & etc. I'd like to see some sort of easier tracking for IP-only posters - right now they're faceless to users, even when they're editing regularly (altho', again, that may depend on Admin policy). Maybe as part of that, I'd like "contributions" to be a link on ''other'' User pages, so navigation to that information is easier than it currently is. I'd also like to (try to) get more people involved in expressing opinions on the editorial direction and policies of this wiki - not to make it a pure democracy, but some sort of welcoming and well-advertised public forum where voices can be heard. But mostly I'd learn the tools themselves to see what is possible, both possible to improve and create anew - it's hard to know what I'd do with something I'm admittedly not very familiar with. But I didn't know jack about editing a wiki a year ago, not a single double-bracket or triple-apostrophe, nada, and I caught on pretty quickly as a User, so I have faith in myself.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:01, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh - I'll toss this out too - if I learned html and how to program Cisco router IOS (which I did), I can learn Wiki code. In case anyone had concerns in that direction.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:40, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Public Discussion==
:Discuss things here, yay

Shaun White kicked. Seriously. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
You see that faceplant he took? And an hour later a walk-away gold? Seriously.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

==Votes==
===Support===
# '''Strong Support''' --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:44, 18 February 2010 (UTC), great df player, lots of experience, good editing skills, practices the '''be bold''' meme.
# '''Strong Support''' positive contributions to the Wiki --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 16:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Updated, shows fairness in dealing with other admin candidates --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 21:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
# '''Strong Support''' - Easily one of the best users we have on this wiki. He's dedicated, smart, has a clear direction for the site and has been helping since before I was around. Great choice. [[User:SirPenguin|SirPenguin]] 19:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
# '''Strong Support''' As soon as I joined up and started talking around on the wiki, this guy appeared repeatedly. He is intelligent, knows the game, knows the wiki, and seems to know people well too. --Kydo 05:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
# '''Support''' What, you mean.... he wasn't already?[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 09:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
# '''Support''' I think he would be a fantastic admin, and clearly has the determination to help out with everything on the wiki. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 11:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
#'''Support''' There are two traits Albedo has that are not often found in the same person, both of which are crucial for an administrator to perform well. He has enough confidence in himself to take the actions he thinks are necessary and defend them. And he has enough doubt about himself to recognize and repair his own mistakes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
#'''Support''' QFT, VengefulDonut. My thoughts precisely. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

===Oppose===
# '''OPPOSE''': Blah blah blah, here's why, signature

===Neutral===
# '''NEUTRAL'''| blah blah blah here's why signature

40d Talk:Catsplosion

2009-07-25T05:54:52Z

N9103: spellcheck isn't always the answer.

== Modding solution without unhappiness ==
If you remove the [VERMINHUNTER] tag from the raw file of the cat and then load your game, all of the cats who chose their owner (not ones who came with immigrants) will be owner free again and you can butcher them without causing unhappy thoughts. They won't catch vermin anymore, but you can butcher as many as you like and then put the [VERMINHUNTER] tag back if you want to. This has worked for me in the 40d version.
[[User:Bobokapi|Bobokapi]] 21:39, 12 November 2008 (EST)

:Sounds really useful. Add it to the article, but you might want to mention it's a bug (or more likely, because all cats are now re-created as a new type of creature w/o owners, or verminhunter has something to do with the "cats adopt dwarves" thing). – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]]
:::It does. Someone put VERMINHUNTER on their dogs and found that they adopted owners. Apparently, you need to be of an appropriately independent mindset to go off and hunt rats. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)

==Cat Farm==
Why don't you try making a 'cat farm'? Dig a small pit (1 by 1 to 3 by 3) then dig a tunnel to the side. Build floodgates at the entrance, since the little buggers are able to get past tightly closed doors. The tunnel should lead to a room full of butcher's shops. Then designate the channel as a pit and dump all the cats in. Since its a small pit, the fps wouldn't reduce as much. The cats will breed, and breed, and breed. When you want to 'harvest' the cats get them ready to be slaughtered. Open the gate, then once the ones to be slaughtered are removed, close it. Enjoy the cat farm!--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:52, 10 February 2009 (EST)

:They'll still pick owners down there. And then you can't slaughter them. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:48, 10 February 2009 (EST)
::They shouldn't pick owners if they don't see dwarves. Are you sure?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:12, 10 February 2009 (EST)
:::I'm sure. They still pick owners buried -12 z-levels down and 100 tiles away from the nearest dwarf, pitted in a 1x1x1 hole in the center of a 9x9x9 constructed wall cube. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

==Is the answer to everything "Mod it"??==
I regularly embark with 10 cats, and have gotten to year 30 without a catsplosion... even in the unmodded version of the game... how do I do this? Simple. I embark with 1 stone of whatever sort, build a butcher shop and kill every female cat as soon as I arrive. I then sell any female cats I accedentally buy -without uncaging them- and kill any dwarf who is foolish enough to move to my fortress with a female cat (and take the cat with you!). I have 30 cats and 7 happy cat owners and NO CATSPLOSION. I admit I did have a slight incident where the owner's parents were a bit upset, but really... minor details.

Of course, if there were a mod that would allow me to make a mandate forbidding female cats, I could have the hammerer take care of all of that for me. ... so, yes, the answer to everything is "mod it". --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:: I think that "mandate against cats" is more of a Toady update thing than a mod, as I like the idea of cats adopting their owners but the damage to FraPS from Catsplosions ruins it. [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 13:56, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

==Catsplosion fixes from Toady?==
Does anyone know if Today plans on fixing the catsplosion problem with mandates or any other nifty ideas?[[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 13:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

:I don't really see the problem with cats at all. Sure, you need to keep an eye on them, but I start with 2 cats if cash allows it (just to defy the advice ;) ), and butcher the kittens, welcome bone and meat source. My current fortress has 4 pet cats (2♂,2♀), 1 or 2 of which I think came with immigrants. Not had a case of adopting the butcher either. And there's always upright menacing spikes for pet problems - a properly supervised dwarf will not even drop from ecstatic from the loss of a pet. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Water pressure

2009-07-23T19:25:40Z

N9103: /* overflow behaviour */

Verification of U-bend bug. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-207-infinitewaternopumps] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:37, 7 January 2008 (EST)

: Do you happen to have a save file so I can poke it a bit? --[[User:SL|SL]] 11:06, 15 January 2008 (EST)

::I don't, but it has been reliably reproducible. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 15 January 2008 (EST)

== Deep water pressure bug? ==

I just had an odd experience. I lucked into a map with a brook high up on a mountain slope, a deep ravine next to it with an extremely narrow mouth I could easily wall off, and goblin buildings down at the bottom of the slope. So I made a huge five-level-deep reservoir and dug a floodgate-controlled tunnel from the lowest level right into the basement of one of the goblin forts. The reservoir was filling slowly so I had the opportunity to test-fire the flood in some disposable save games while the reservoir was still only partly full; it gave the wonderful drowned-goblin corpse-fountain effect I was hoping for. But once the reservoir had finished filling up to 7 on the highest level, even with the brook that was feeding it, opening the floodgate produced only a disappointing unpressurized trickle. It wasn't until I dug a single channel square at the edge of the reservoir, introducing a single non-7 square to the uppermost water layer, that the torrent instantly let loose with all its pressurized might. A known issue? Some of this page is a bit too arcane for me to follow right now so I'm not sure if it's mentioned. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 01:59, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

:That's almost certainly because it's being treated as part of the brook, since brooks and rivers don't produce (and even neutralize) water pressure. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 14:49, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

::Ah, so if I closed the floodgates feeding the reservoir to sever the connection with the brook it'd pressurize? Interesting physics in DF world. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 03:09, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

:Are aquifers treated the same way? I have a pond fed by digging stairs up into an aquifer, and dug out the wrong tiles around my pump. My entire fort should be submerged, but all I got was a pond at permanent 7/7.
::Aquifers don't generate water pressure, and don't fill z-levels higher than the one on which they were originally found. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 18:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

==To clear out==
Water sources attempt to generate water in tiles adjacent to pressurized tiles. They will not generate water in tiles above
pressurized tiles unless the water source has nowhere else to generate any water, and they will never generate water above
the water source's z-level.
What exactly does this mean? If I understand right, then it's a lie--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]

:What do you think conflicts with the model? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:43, 9 February 2009 (EST)
::Things like this (side view)

≈≈≈≈≈≈≈# ≈≈≈
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈#≈≈≈≈≈≈++
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈###≈#####
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈#
############
The blue water tiles should not be filled before the plus marked ones (empty). But this situation can easily be made ingame--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
==Water U - BUG==
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1407-pressurebugwithfortification

W≈≈≈### ## z 0
###≈###≈### z -1
###≈###≈### z -2
###≈≈≈≈≈### z -3

W - Water from a water source
# - Solid wall
≈ - Water

The water does not go up to the z-level it came from.

== U Bend Bug ==

I found a quirky Pressure bug using a U-bend into my main reservoir. I have it tapped directly into the river with a floodgate (1) right at the river to control things. The surprise was when I went to irrigate my fields, I was pulling water out through (2) to fill a vault to irrigate my fields with since the main reservoir was way too large for this purpose. So I had left (1) open expecting it to naturally refill as quickly as I drained it. It did not. It instead pulled the water out filling my vault, emptied the main reservoir and sat there doing nothing. (1) is wide open still, so it SHOULD be refilling, but isn't. Toggling (1) closed and reopened seems to reset the pressure and allow the main reservoir to fill.

: ≈≈≈1≈######
: ####≈#≈≈≈##
: ####≈#≈≈≈##
: ####≈≈≈≈≈2≈
: ######≈≈≈##
: ###########

It's a little unclear on why it behaves this way. It has something to do with multiple floodgates, when one opens, it doesn't seem to bother to check the state of other floodgates that might also affect pressure on this waterway. It may also be important that the top of my reservoir is lower than the river itself, so once it's done filling it may be shutting off the water flow logic since it's full now and doesn't need to waste CPU cycles, and then forgetting to check it again when I pull water away from that.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 09:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

== overflow behaviour ==
"to a z-level one level lower than the source."

That is just plain contradicting the next sentence. Also, I have read the article at http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php?page=10 , but, please, explain then:

On level '1' I have a tunnel filled with water, steadily being refilled by a pump. It drops its content one level down ('0') through a channel tile, into a room that is open to level '1' via a stairway. The room fills with water and when all tiles are at 7/7 water starts pouring out back to level '1' - lots of water. Of course this makes perfect sense. If there is another mechanism at work that has nothing to do with the pressure model ("Pumps do not create pressure"), then there should still be a warning, or a rewording because, seriously, how is that not "water pressure" --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 16:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

:By not creating it, it means that the water coming out is at zero pressure. By dropping the water, it can now gain pressure if any of the tiles above it are at 7/7. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

== Oceans ==

I'm torn on whether to add something specifically about oceans on here. I tunneld into an ocean three z-levels below the ocean's surface with a door which I figured would allow my miner to escape with minor flood beeing the only damage. When I breached the ocean, the room immediatly filled with water. I thought that was odd but I let my miner do his this, and as soon as he opened the door the game went to 0 FPS for about 2 minutes and suddenly my whole fortress below that points (a good 6 z-levels with some sizable rooms) was 7/7. instantly in game time. You can see why I'm tempted to add a warning. [[User:Planetofthedwarves|Planetofthedwarves]] 18:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

:Damn, you got romped. Definetly add that warning!--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:56, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

:That's no different than would happen with any other large body of water with several Z-levels above where you breached. Fill a giant (x&y, not Z) tower that reaches into the ground with water, and then breach it.. You'll get the same instant fill to a certain level. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Water pressure

2009-07-23T19:24:01Z

N9103: /* Oceans */

Verification of U-bend bug. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-207-infinitewaternopumps] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:37, 7 January 2008 (EST)

: Do you happen to have a save file so I can poke it a bit? --[[User:SL|SL]] 11:06, 15 January 2008 (EST)

::I don't, but it has been reliably reproducible. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 15 January 2008 (EST)

== Deep water pressure bug? ==

I just had an odd experience. I lucked into a map with a brook high up on a mountain slope, a deep ravine next to it with an extremely narrow mouth I could easily wall off, and goblin buildings down at the bottom of the slope. So I made a huge five-level-deep reservoir and dug a floodgate-controlled tunnel from the lowest level right into the basement of one of the goblin forts. The reservoir was filling slowly so I had the opportunity to test-fire the flood in some disposable save games while the reservoir was still only partly full; it gave the wonderful drowned-goblin corpse-fountain effect I was hoping for. But once the reservoir had finished filling up to 7 on the highest level, even with the brook that was feeding it, opening the floodgate produced only a disappointing unpressurized trickle. It wasn't until I dug a single channel square at the edge of the reservoir, introducing a single non-7 square to the uppermost water layer, that the torrent instantly let loose with all its pressurized might. A known issue? Some of this page is a bit too arcane for me to follow right now so I'm not sure if it's mentioned. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 01:59, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

:That's almost certainly because it's being treated as part of the brook, since brooks and rivers don't produce (and even neutralize) water pressure. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 14:49, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

::Ah, so if I closed the floodgates feeding the reservoir to sever the connection with the brook it'd pressurize? Interesting physics in DF world. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 03:09, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

:Are aquifers treated the same way? I have a pond fed by digging stairs up into an aquifer, and dug out the wrong tiles around my pump. My entire fort should be submerged, but all I got was a pond at permanent 7/7.
::Aquifers don't generate water pressure, and don't fill z-levels higher than the one on which they were originally found. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 18:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

==To clear out==
Water sources attempt to generate water in tiles adjacent to pressurized tiles. They will not generate water in tiles above
pressurized tiles unless the water source has nowhere else to generate any water, and they will never generate water above
the water source's z-level.
What exactly does this mean? If I understand right, then it's a lie--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]

:What do you think conflicts with the model? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:43, 9 February 2009 (EST)
::Things like this (side view)

≈≈≈≈≈≈≈# ≈≈≈
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈#≈≈≈≈≈≈++
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈###≈#####
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈#
############
The blue water tiles should not be filled before the plus marked ones (empty). But this situation can easily be made ingame--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
==Water U - BUG==
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1407-pressurebugwithfortification

W≈≈≈### ## z 0
###≈###≈### z -1
###≈###≈### z -2
###≈≈≈≈≈### z -3

W - Water from a water source
# - Solid wall
≈ - Water

The water does not go up to the z-level it came from.

== U Bend Bug ==

I found a quirky Pressure bug using a U-bend into my main reservoir. I have it tapped directly into the river with a floodgate (1) right at the river to control things. The surprise was when I went to irrigate my fields, I was pulling water out through (2) to fill a vault to irrigate my fields with since the main reservoir was way too large for this purpose. So I had left (1) open expecting it to naturally refill as quickly as I drained it. It did not. It instead pulled the water out filling my vault, emptied the main reservoir and sat there doing nothing. (1) is wide open still, so it SHOULD be refilling, but isn't. Toggling (1) closed and reopened seems to reset the pressure and allow the main reservoir to fill.

: ≈≈≈1≈######
: ####≈#≈≈≈##
: ####≈#≈≈≈##
: ####≈≈≈≈≈2≈
: ######≈≈≈##
: ###########

It's a little unclear on why it behaves this way. It has something to do with multiple floodgates, when one opens, it doesn't seem to bother to check the state of other floodgates that might also affect pressure on this waterway. It may also be important that the top of my reservoir is lower than the river itself, so once it's done filling it may be shutting off the water flow logic since it's full now and doesn't need to waste CPU cycles, and then forgetting to check it again when I pull water away from that.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 09:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

== overflow behaviour ==
"to a z-level one level lower than the source."

That is just plain contradicting the next sentence. Also, I have read the article at http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php?page=10 , but, please, explain then:

On level '1' I have a tunnel filled with water, steadily being refilled by a pump. It drops its content one level down ('0') through a channel tile, into a room that is open to level '1' via a stairway. The room fills with water and when all tiles are at 7/7 water starts pouring out back to level '1' - lots of water. Of course this makes perfect sense. If there is another mechanism at work that has nothing to do with the pressure model ("Pumps do not create pressure"), then there should still be a warning, or a rewording because, seriously, how is that not "water pressure" --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 16:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

== Oceans ==

I'm torn on whether to add something specifically about oceans on here. I tunneld into an ocean three z-levels below the ocean's surface with a door which I figured would allow my miner to escape with minor flood beeing the only damage. When I breached the ocean, the room immediatly filled with water. I thought that was odd but I let my miner do his this, and as soon as he opened the door the game went to 0 FPS for about 2 minutes and suddenly my whole fortress below that points (a good 6 z-levels with some sizable rooms) was 7/7. instantly in game time. You can see why I'm tempted to add a warning. [[User:Planetofthedwarves|Planetofthedwarves]] 18:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

:Damn, you got romped. Definetly add that warning!--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:56, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

:That's no different than would happen with any other large body of water with several Z-levels above where you breached. Fill a giant (x&y, not Z) tower that reaches into the ground with water, and then breach it.. You'll get the same instant fill to a certain level. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Ore

2009-07-12T14:18:13Z

N9103: /* ore -> blocks */

==Nomenclature==
Should nuggets be labelled as such in the list? Before they are mined they are referred to as 'Native <metalname>', and are only labelled as nuggets once mined. Perhaps the table should be changed to indicate this. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:14, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:Before they are mined, they can't be smelted. It doesn't really matter which approach is used, as long as it is consistent; this article consistently refers to the post-mining state. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:13, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Should we take the Chromite out of the 'Found In' section for Platinum? Chromite is found in Olivine, and Platinum is already found in Olivine.--[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:58, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

==Smelting of gold/silver==
Separate query - anyone know why Toady One requires native gold/silver to be smelted? You don't have to smelt rock to get the gold or silver out, it is gold or silver and you can either melt it for casting or work with it directly. (Historically most gold or silver mined has been melted down so it could be cast into bars for ease of transportation, but its still perfectly plausible to work with it in its raw state - rarely have the metalsmiths/jewelers been so close to the mining operations as in this game). I believe this is also true of native copper (hence why copper weapons/tools vastly predate iron equivalents). Smelting is the process of extracting metal from rock, not just melting it down. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:06, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:The closest I can come to an answer to this one is, you can build near-equal value items (maintly furniture) from the "native metal rock" using your mason instead of your metalworkers.
==Gold Nuggets==
So, I'm currently evaluating some gem occurrence data, but noticed that there is no native gold veins that are wholely interior to gabbro (with quite a few gold veins discovered thus far). They may occur at the border of gabbro and other layers, and thus possibly extend into the gabbro, but nothing that could be said 'yep, that was generated in gabbro'. This leads me to believe gold does not occur in gabbro, and gold present in gabbro is only incidental due to a vein running over into it from another stone layer. 
(For reference, I've dug 1x140 square tunnels on 55 z-levels such that they are all directly above each other, for a total of 7700 tiles dug out and ~15500 tiles revealed beyond that. I've then mined out all gem clusters i've found, and am working on mining out all veins i've found. The tunnels cross a biome boundary, with transitions of andesite/basalt, diorite/marble, and diorite/gabbro. Gabbro is by far the most common rock tunneled through, followed by diorite, as the diorite/gabbro transition layers are the bulk of the layers) 
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:35, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
[MATGLOSS_STONE:GOLD]
[NAME:native gold][STONE_NAME:gold nuggets][COLOR:6:7:1][TILE:156]
[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_ALL:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT:ALLUVIAL:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
[METAL_ORE:GOLD:100]
[SOLID_DENSITY:19320]
[VALUE:30]
:Any problem?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:28, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
::[[Gold]] occurs in all igneous. [[Gabbro]] is igneous. Gold does not occur in gabbro: a contradiction.
::Based on gem occurrence patterns I hypothesize that each main layer (such as gabbro) is limited by the code to only a certain number of inclusions (such as gold), and after this inclusion list is full nothing else is created. For instance, maps will have a lot of one specific type of agate, rather than a little of each; or [[rock crystal]] is nowhere to be found in ten maps, and then appears in 15 small clusters in exactly one layer in one map. Any thoughts? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 23:11, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
:::I'm starting to see correlation in gems within rock masses, even across z-levels. There may be something to this. It would also explain why I have a boatload of gold veins, but none in Gabbro. OTOH, I'm starting to think there's more to the mineral/gem generation that just what rock type the layer is - I've been getting some gem types repeatedly associated with areas where the rock layer is 'broken', ie, rock layer type boundaries (say Diorite meeting Gabbro) or next to an ore vein, whereas I'm finding different gems totally internal to rock layer types. This actually makes sense geologically, but I want more data before I say anything definite. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:34, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

I have found the start of a vein of gold in gabbro, so I think that he was just getting some odd, extremely specific thing. I don't know. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:47, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:You'd have to find a gold vein completely inside a gabbor layer to rule out the vein having just finished running into a different stone layer. I have malachite veins in my current game that terminate in andesite, mudstone, and even soil layers because they kept running past a stone boundary.
:Similar to my above query - I haven't seen a single gold vein in granite this game (and wasn't paying sufficient attention in previous games to notice). I have found plenty of Bismuthsite, Silver, and Casserite in granite though.
:It still strikes me as highly plausible that the ore/gem generation algorithm is more complex than just 'is it the right class of rock?'.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:04, 8 December 2008 (EST)

== Native Aluminum ==

According to the soil article Aluminum occurs in soil as well, but this table and the Native Aluminum article make no mention of it occuring in soil. Can someone verify if it occurs in soil? --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 03:07, 16 January 2009 (EST)

== Native Platinum ==

I've recently seen platinum clusters of about 20 to 30 in maps. Would this be classified as a size of its own? Although I have only seen it in one fort so far and i recently mined out a cluster of 4. Was this just a one time thing or is anybody else noticing this? --[[User:Jebraltix|Jebraltix]] 9:38, 16 Febuary 2009 (CST)
:I discovered a vein of native platinum once before, too. I thought platinum only occurred as small clusters, but apparently its matgloss says they can be discovered as veins in olivine and magnetite, too. --[[User:Sz|Sz]] 06:51, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::It most definitely veins in magnetite (and never forms small clusters there). I have never seen anything but small clusters in olivine. (I have a map with some 13 magnetite clusters thus far - most have had platinum veins). The strange thing about platinum veining in magnetite is the vein will extend to the edge of the magnetite, stop, and then pick up again a few tiles away and finish the vein. Not sure what causes this. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:59, 18 February 2009 (EST)

== ore -> blocks ==

Are blocks able to be refined at a smelter? this would reduce the number of hauling tasks taken to keep a furnace operator busy and create work to help level up a mason.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

:Almost certain that they're not. I don't remember where I read it, so I can't spread some sauce on this one. I do know there is (used to be?) a mod that was used only for converting blocks back to ores. An easy risk-free check is trading for one at the next caravan, as the humans/dwarven wagons almost always have a block of an ore. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 14:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Laptop keyboard

2009-07-06T06:30:04Z

N9103:

I just created this bage in response to a comment I recieved about my recient addition to [Template:Starting_FAQ]. It could/should probably be deleted and have the information merged into another page. I just don't know which one. Alternately, if someone wants to touch up this page (I'm sure it needs it) and keep it, please do. --[[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 14:30, 7 February 2009 (EST)

Not all is happy on laptop keyboards. When trying to limit the number of barrels/bins in a laptop, I get confronted with:
erER: Max Barrel - 0 and cvCV: Max Bin.

Does anyone have a table of the wierd codes to regular keys? Would be an error if the program just used them instead of codes? --[[User:Gizbot|Gizbot]] 02:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

:You are apparently mistaking the game's listing of control keys as a single command. That's lowercase and Capital E/R for barrels and C/V for bins. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

40d:Trading

2009-07-04T08:00:11Z

N9103: Undo revision 41280256 by Greep (Talk) Documented under seizing items.

{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D
|job=
1 of:
* [[Broker]] noble
* None (See description)
|construction=
3 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Metal bar]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Architecture]]
* and 1 of:
** [[Metalsmithing]]
** [[Masonry]]
** [[Carpentry]]
|purpose=
Trade goods with other races.
}}

'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.

A '''Trader''' is the term used at your [[Trade Depot]] to refer to your fortress [[Broker]] when dealing with [[merchant]]s in a visiting [[caravan]] ({{key|r}} - "''Trader requested at Depot"''). As a [[profession]], the term usually only applies to those merchants, and to a dwarf whose highest [[skill]] is [[Appraiser]].

== Trade Depot ==
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]).

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.

Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.

Do not build two Trade Depots however, as then neither will work properly.

=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. This screen menu is similar to the [[stock]]s menu ({{K|z}} - Stocks). This is where you select what items you want to trade with the caravan. If you have particular items you want to sell to the caravan, you can {{K|s}}earch for it. This is convenient if you want to export all your prepared meals or finished goods. Also shown is the culling on {{K|m}}andate option. The move to depot screen will not show things that violate an export [[mandate]]. By pressing {{K|m}}, it will change to Ignoring {{K|m}}andates, and you can select banned items for export. For example, if your [[mayor]] has a mandate banning the export of iron, this screen will hide bins that contain iron items. By changing this option, all iron items will be shown.<br\> <br\>After selecting items and exiting the screen, [[jobs]] will be queued to move the items to the depot. All dwarves, regardless of [[labor]] settings, can move goods to the depot. Items that have not been moved will show [PENDING], while those that have been brought to the depot and are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. <br\><br\>Items selected for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves. Alternatively you can select the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal. If you don't want all the items to be returned to their stockpiles, you can optionally {{K|f}}orbid them by looking at the [[Controls_guide#View_items_in_buildings.2C_t|i{{K|t}}ems]] in the depot.

=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.

=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.

=== Trade ===
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your trader are both at the depot. It begins trading.

==Trading==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again. Note however that a low profit margin for the traders may not be desirable - it has been suggested that both export and profit numbers influence the size of next years caravan and, in the case of the dwarven caravan, immigration numbers.

=== Trading cue colors ===

* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.
* Items in green have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.
* Items in red have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items. However, usually a caravan from a different civilization will accept stolen goods without changing them first.

=== Merchant mood ===
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

=== Seizing items ===

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy goods stolen from one of their caravans (then marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].

Pressing the seize button while no goods are selected will result in the merchant interpreting your seizure as a joke. This apparently does nothing to benefit or hinder your trading.

As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid traders' goods. They will leave them in depot.

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an [[ambush]] killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a [[siege]] instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!

===Offering items===

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey back exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.

=== Wagons ===
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals.

Wagons '''cannot''' cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.

To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation. A wagon can't go directly from a ramp to a bridge, there must be floor tiles in between.

After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.

As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.

=== Liaisons ===
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liason of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

=== Races ===
The following races send caravans.

==== [[Dwarves]] ====
The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]] and more. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.
* tends to be well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location.
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.

==== [[elf|Elves]] ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].
* does not send wagons.
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[Restraint|rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].
* carries more wood logs the smaller a fort's wood stockpile.
* tends to be unguarded.
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.
* does not accept some items in trade.

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}:

* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]
* All [[glass]]; formerly believed to be confined to clear and crystal glass (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation) but also includes green glass from a magma glass furnace.
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the caravan to refuse to trade any more that season and will leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for suggesting it. Tragic incidence can befall name callers which if repeated can lead to [[siege|interesting times]] and even great [[fun]]!

However, [[stone]] and [[metal]] items, even when [[charcoal]] is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].

Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== [[Human]]s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.
* tends to be moderately guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.

==== [[Goblin]]s ====
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*does not send wagons
*tends to be unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

=== Destruction ===
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.

While caravans can defend themselves, they don't like being ambushed. An encounter with unfriendly creatures may cause them to retreat and forget about trading with you for the season. Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].

=== Caravan Delay ===
If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave, the merchants and animals will soon go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death. It is not known if this hurts diplomatic relations.

Talk:Main Page/Quote

2009-06-28T21:06:11Z

N9103: /* 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions */ oops, 3, not 2.

== How to add quotes: ==

* Go to the line of the last quote.
* Add a line immediately after it (this should be before the closing }} brackets)
* type "|YOUR-QUOTE-HERE" on that line
:(The quote number is not functionally necessary, but it allows keeping track of how many quotes there are without counting)
* Look at the first line of the template
:It should look something like this:
<pre>{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|37}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+27)}} }}</pre>
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 37 to reflect the number of quotes in the list.
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 27 to reflect ten less than the number of quotes in the list. (in this case.. 27)
:The purpose of the first number is to choose a random element from the list of quotes.
:The second lets us pick from among the last ten quotes in the list.
*Preview your reply to make sure nothing is broken (or someone will be able to see it on the main page before it gets fixed)
*Profit!
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion: 
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

== Screenshots ==
The [http://www.dfwk.ru/index.php/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 russian wiki] has made use of the system here to show random DF screenshots rather than quotes. I think this is a rather clever idea. Maybe we have a good spot where we could place something similar? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

: Neat Idea. We could have one quote and one screenshoot. But we should define a standard size for the screenshot. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::200x150 would make it fit the 800x600 curses, with proportional distortion all around, without taking up much in the way of page real estate. If the real estate is deemed not quite so valuable, then 400x300 would work even better, suffering half the overall distortion (but still maintaining a relatively small footprint, and keeping aspect ratio intact.) Unless we're happy with the smaller size I suggested, a page overhaul is going to be needed to find a place to put it, such that it doesn't make a jumble out of the rest of it. (Conversely, I think the 200x150 would fit very neatly in the space already allotted to one of the quotes.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:Also, it could easily be arranged so that quotes and screenshots are paired. That way each screenshot has an accompanying caption. It would take quite a bit of work to get images for the current ones, though. I guess we could start them off as random stuff and switch them out as we go. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

== "[B]loats" ==

For what it's worth, the nowiki formatting around square bracketed 'B' in the Toady quote about boats was simply in the interests of quoting accuracy; the original word was not capitalized and I still have that kind of formatting in my heart from college paper citations. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. It looked to me like a weird, failed boats/bloats pun. I don't think it really matters; you can change it back if you like. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:19, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you! And done. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Quote removal ==

Say, why was the "interrupted by carp" quote removed? I loved that one. --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Blame Savok, he thought it was unfunny. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:22, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

And regarding VengefulDonut stripping off that last one, PTTG's quote was simply hilarious. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:19, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Thinking on this some more, the idea that anyone can just reverse a quote at their leisure strikes me as unusual. If a quote is an obvious spam, that's one thing; if a quote is something that ''you'' don't think of as funny, I think there should be some sort of consensus system involved. There are at least a couple existing quotes that I don't find funny in the slightest (Spiders Everywhere, you've been processed, GreyMario's), but I don't remove them. --[[User:JT|JT]]

My 2☼ on the subject: 
Unless a quote is offensively directed at a particular user/person, I don't see how there are any grounds for removal. 
If it is, it's perfectly acceptable for the addressed person to remove it, if they so choose. 
Additionally, you may remove quotes of yourself, whether or not they're offensive, regardless of who added the quote. 
In all cases, it's the sole responsibility of the addressed person to remove a quote, not someone else. 
I think that makes sense.. but perhaps I'm too far off base? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:When anyone is able to add a quote at their leisure, we will naturally end up with plenty of quotes that aren't funny. If anyone is able to remove a quote at their leisure, quotes that aren't funny will disappear. This is parallel to the wikipedia editing process in general, and I think this kind of process has decent results. Although I am open to other proposals.
:On the topic of racy jokes: I'm sure there are plenty of group-targeted jokes that could be stated in DF terms that would be very funny; just pick a group, a metaphor, and a stereotype. But even if you tell a member of that group to grow a thicker skin or to stop taking themselves seriously or learn to take a joke, it doesn't turn the joke from something alienating to something entertaining. In the right context, those kinds of jokes can be very funny even to those on the butt end of them. Standup comedians succeed or fail based on their ability to create it. But I don't think that the front page is the right context. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:24, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

::Unless its blantantly offensive I don't think "unfunny" is a reason to remove a quote, we each have our own sense of humour, such debate should be placed here on the discussion page imo. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Bleh. I'd like to, but nobody answers most discussion page debates in reasonable time. If we become more regularly active in discussion page debates (which isn't hard - we've got several that any experienced player can add to), we might be able to do that. As it is, the responses are usually at least a few days, often months apart. And then, occasionally, we get one that has five people with fifteen comments in a day or two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

As I've said before, if you want to revert those of my deletes that you really think should stay, that's fine. The way I see it, and the way some have said before me, anybody can, if they think it's funny enough, add a quote to the page. Of course, we will get some pretty poor quotes that way, so anyone can, if they dislike it enough, delete a quote from that page. If an edit war occurs, we can take it to the talk page (with the war attention, we'll actually have commenters), where it can be resolved. We Are Not Wikipedia. We're too small for that; everyone knows everyone else and anyone can monitor all edits if they have a little time to spend. 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], rambling at 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

== [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19686.msg206978#msg206978 Too untasteful?] ==

I found this on the forums:
<div style="width: 12em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' 
Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching</div>
For? Against? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. DF has people exploding in gore. Besides, these words are in the game anyway.
-- [[User:InquisitorSaturn|InquisitorSaturn]] 01:44, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. Lets be honest; how many people are likely to come to this wiki that aren't mature enough to enjoy a little mature humor. If anything people are more likely to complain that it didn't make them laugh then that they are worried that kids might see it. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 01:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nobody gives a fuck about the kids, man. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

For - Very funny and clever --[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 17:33, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Against. I think it might be funny once or twice, but it is not necessarily something that I want to see on the front page for hours until the quote changes again. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 10:26 June 14 (MST)

:Mmmm... against. When there were 2 quotes on the page, maybe. But now that there's only 1, I'd rather not have this be "representative" of any DF experience, when it's simply not. In fact, it has nothing to do with DF - it's just crude. (Not that that's a bad thing - it just has nothing to do with DF.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Multi-Line Quotes ==

I assumed your multi-line quote was an error because it rendered incorrectly when it appeared on http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote , and did so again when you restored the original. I've re-re-restored it in the interests of peace but I do note that the text extends outside the box and one line actually appears below the box. I'm less certain whether it appears this way on the main page. Perhaps we need a different way to enter multi-line quotes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:The quote that's causing problems is kinda long, either way. How about we just bonk it on the head?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:15, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::But it's funny. :( --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

:Just out of curiosity, what browser? It appears just fine in Firefox 2. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:39, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Firefox 3. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:My multi-line quote (shown below) doesn't appear to break anything (browser used: Firefox 3). --[[User:Beerdude26|Beerdude26]] 15:26, 22 January 2009 (EST)

<blockquote>
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"

'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
</blockquote>

== Okay wtf who broke shit where. ==

On the main page, the second random quote is just a '. WHAT GIVES? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:I can't find any recent changes to the code of the selector, and given that the first selector works, it's hard to blame a syntax error either. The mainpage does a weird thing to guarantee the quotes are different, passing |1 to the page as a parameter or...something. Someone who knows wikicode may know what's going on. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:13, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The problem is a bit deeper. [[template:rand]] and [[template:rand2]] use the mod function inside a #expr to mod the current timestamp and return a number in a specified range. The mod function is returning negative values for large inputs (this is a bug). Since it seems I can't guarantee a positive number will have a positive mod, I don't know how to modify the templates to make sure they keep returning positive numbers. Smaller inputs would be nice, but I need it to vary with time, and those are the ones that are blowing it up. Also, I don't have absolute value or any binary number operations, so those methods are out. Absolute value would be available with a newer version of parser functions, but convincing [[user:senso|Senso]] is an obstacle there. I'm really not sure how to remedy this. Anyone have ideas? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::: I say divide the end result before modulusing by 4. That'll still give pseudo-random numbers, just less often, and might work until a better fix rears its not-so-ugly head. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::: <s>Good idea. I'll try it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::: Didn't work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::: Feel free to fool around with [[template:rand]] and push a fix if you can find one. Just make sure to preview. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Ah well, it was worth a shot. I'll see what I can come up with in the [[Template:Sandbox|sandbox]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:31, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::<s>UPDATE: It appears using <tt><nowiki>{{#expr: ((({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} / 1024) + {{CURRENTDAY}} + {{CURRENTMONTH}}) mod {{{1|100}}}) + 1}}</nowiki></tt> seems to produce positive numbers for now. I'll go update [[Template:Rand2]] and see if it works.</s> <s>So much for that, but at least it was returning positive numbers. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::::Okay, I blame certain things being slow for the fact that it works over in the Sandbox but not in the Main Page/Quote template. :S But the good news is, it's at least producing a result over at the sandbox. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Can you use an <nowiki> {{ #ifexpr: {{{num}}} >= 0 | {{{num}}} | {{ #expr: {{{num}}} * -1 }} }} </nowiki> to replace abs? (I may have the syntax slightly wrong.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::Good call, Maximus. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:04, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::::You know, I thought of that just last night but was too busy falling asleep. :( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::::I stole it off your desk.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:06, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Here we go again! It's started displaying the telltale ' again. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST) UPDATE: It's just gone away again. Might be worth a try to check the conditions next time it does it D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:08, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::Should be fixed now. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== What's This Jreengus Stuff About, Anyway? ==

Googling it just gets me pages telling me it's funny for those in the know somehow. If any place ought to have an explanation it's the wiki. That's what it's there for! :) --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:05, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Kobolds speak gibberish. The code that named an event allowed the kobolds to name it (when they won? maybe.), and that caused the name of an event to sometimes be a single word of gibberish. Toady mentioned that somewhere in some part of the dev notes.
:That's it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal. ==

Haaaaawhaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Awesome. We need more quotes that are as funny as this. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:48, 25 November 2008 (EST)

== Long quotes ==

"Engraved on the wall is a masterfully designed image of a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf mining out a wall." Yes this is a long quote but it's also funny, why ditch it? I didn't see any long quotes breaking the mainpage the way multi-line quotes did. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:They make the main page look like crap by stretching the quote box and pushing down everything else. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Surely there are other places to put funny things. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Not really, unless you mean 'keep this stuff off the wiki'. No, quotes aren't a big deal. They're just fun, i.e. 'the entire point'. ;p The Quote_Archive is an obvious aging relic, and ought to go anyway since there's no sense having multiple, separate pages of slightly different functionality and identical content patchily duplicating each other. I wonder if the quote wikicode could be done the other way around... I might play around on my talk page and see if I can build a useful something. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::The Quote Archive was originally created as a place for quotes to go to never be deleted, so that it wouldn't be that bad if someone lost a quote from Main Page/Quote. When I created it, I didn't realize the effort it would take to update it, so I'm going to go over there now and clean it up, making it all plaintext.
:::Also, I concur with Vengeful that the long quotes are overly ugly on the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:35, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::::Not arguing with that. I usually run screens at a high resolution so I didn't notice the stretching myself. I do think multiple quote pages is pointless though, 'specially considering folk like me will happen upon them and helpfully transfer stuff from one to the other... Not that I would, but I had often considered doing so, obviously misunderstanding your intent in all that duplicate information. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:I agree in principle - many recently deleted are not (imo) a dealbreaker, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I just posted a guideline at the top of the page which reads:
::LIMIT QUOTES TO 150 CHARACTERS (as most are below)
::LONGER QUOTES MAY BE SNIPPED OR DELETED!
:- which seems the max currently. (Only visible when editing, allcaps for max visibility/impact.)
:I also edited several existing long quotes into shorter, acceptable format - some of those were funny, and while changing others' quotes is not my preferred option, this is a wiki, and it's that or lose them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Edit Warring ==
I see GreyMario has taken it upon himself to remove quotes by the dozen, most of which had previously been added back after someone noticed their mysterious absence. Clearly your sense of humor is not everyone's or people wouldn't have to keep adding them back, could you just leave it be instead of editwarring? Can someone give us a revert, please? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:Except they were removed because they were unfunny by popular vote. People should really put it up to a vote when it comes to adding them back. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::I must have missed this, where did it happen? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::In general, I think the replacement of deleted quotes is more of a problem than their deletion. As long as they are added just once and deleted just once, we won't have an edit war even with conflicting views of humor. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, most of those votes were not funny. They were not even remotely close to my "mind like a +whatever trap+" quote, and it's hard to be worse than that and still funny. Anyway, edit warring=no, people should ask what happened to them and it then should be explained exactly what did happen. Personally, I think that they should be left on the quote archive, but not popping up on the main page for all to see.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 12:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions ==

Here are 6 quotes that were deleted after being added. I believe they are worth keeping - wouldn't have added them if I didn't, but one other user disagreed enough to delete them all. Opinions on any or all are requested.

:*Look, there's sentient lava outside, & the only survivor is issuing mandates to the empty halls. This isn't going to get better.

:*On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human reading a dwarf fortress wiki. The human has '''no clue''' what is going on.

:*Seeing a dwarf give birth while sparring was scary, but worse was when she picked the child up & continued fighting.

:*The merchants won't leave because I killed their guys & I can't drown them because there's a shoe in the floodgate.

:*All I do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever to flood the central chamber, & the goblins start sorting themselves by density.

:*The mayor sent me to kill the crocodile that killed my last 3 characters - again... I think he's catching on that I want to kill him.
--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::It's worth noting that these are all misquotes. They have been modified from their original versions. Since these is a list of '''quotes''' rather than just '''jokes''' misquotes do not belong here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::IMO, we don't even credit the quotes so it's not ''that'' important to keep the original phrase intact. The quotes are here to add a funny aspect to the front page, it's not like we're quoting the President about some Important Matter. If a quote breaks the box, I say it's fine to shorten it until it fits, as long as the original spirit is kept. We could always ask the quote's author for their approval, if it's that important. Can we track the origin of those quotes? If not, let's edit them since nobody can prove they're actual quotes anyway. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If we're not going to pretend that we're quoting people, perhaps we should rename the page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::A bunch of sentences without any credits are not proper quotes so in fact, the Quotes page has never really been about quoting people, it's seen as a repository of funny quips about DF. Personally, I don't think it's important enough to start finding all the real authors and adding the authors to the quotes when they appear on the front page. We're not going to bicker about the definition of the word "Quote" and if it's a valid designation or not for that page, I'll leave that kind of debate for Wikipedia. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "quotes" were made up for that list anyway. My final opinion is this: The more sentences we have in that list the better, I don't mind if there is no source attribution. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 00:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::I like quote 2 (forum + wiki) so much that I'ld be willing to re-add it myself; don't care about the rest. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 15:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:'''Restore''' And I'll also echo Senso's sentiments on the matter. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== Signatures ==

Do we want to include signatures? ("Toady" and a few other notables being exceptions). Isn't that a bit against the anonymous/collective idea of a wiki? Doesn't that personalize the edits and hurt the overall process? (And risk turning this into a "look at me!" page?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/Quote

2009-06-28T21:05:47Z

N9103: /* 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions */

== How to add quotes: ==

* Go to the line of the last quote.
* Add a line immediately after it (this should be before the closing }} brackets)
* type "|YOUR-QUOTE-HERE" on that line
:(The quote number is not functionally necessary, but it allows keeping track of how many quotes there are without counting)
* Look at the first line of the template
:It should look something like this:
<pre>{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|37}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+27)}} }}</pre>
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 37 to reflect the number of quotes in the list.
*Adjust the number that is in the place of the 27 to reflect ten less than the number of quotes in the list. (in this case.. 27)
:The purpose of the first number is to choose a random element from the list of quotes.
:The second lets us pick from among the last ten quotes in the list.
*Preview your reply to make sure nothing is broken (or someone will be able to see it on the main page before it gets fixed)
*Profit!
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:34, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== When to add quotes: ==

So. We have a small problem here. People add quotes, people remove quotes, people un-remove quotes, and people make edit war. Suggestion: 
:Rough guidelines for [[Main Page/Quote]]:
:*New quotes are freely added.
:*Those quotes are freely removed.
:*If <user> wants to get quotes re-added, <user> can make a section here stating that they should be and asking for opinion.
:*If consensus doesn't state "no, don't re-add them" for a while, the quotes can be freely added.
:*If <user2> wants to get quotes re-removed once the previous consensus is old, <user2> can make a similar section.
:*Etcetera.
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:24, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::I approve. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:53, 7 March 2009 (EST)
__TOC__

== Screenshots ==
The [http://www.dfwk.ru/index.php/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 russian wiki] has made use of the system here to show random DF screenshots rather than quotes. I think this is a rather clever idea. Maybe we have a good spot where we could place something similar? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

: Neat Idea. We could have one quote and one screenshoot. But we should define a standard size for the screenshot. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::200x150 would make it fit the 800x600 curses, with proportional distortion all around, without taking up much in the way of page real estate. If the real estate is deemed not quite so valuable, then 400x300 would work even better, suffering half the overall distortion (but still maintaining a relatively small footprint, and keeping aspect ratio intact.) Unless we're happy with the smaller size I suggested, a page overhaul is going to be needed to find a place to put it, such that it doesn't make a jumble out of the rest of it. (Conversely, I think the 200x150 would fit very neatly in the space already allotted to one of the quotes.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:Also, it could easily be arranged so that quotes and screenshots are paired. That way each screenshot has an accompanying caption. It would take quite a bit of work to get images for the current ones, though. I guess we could start them off as random stuff and switch them out as we go. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

== "[B]loats" ==

For what it's worth, the nowiki formatting around square bracketed 'B' in the Toady quote about boats was simply in the interests of quoting accuracy; the original word was not capitalized and I still have that kind of formatting in my heart from college paper citations. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Ah. It looked to me like a weird, failed boats/bloats pun. I don't think it really matters; you can change it back if you like. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:19, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you! And done. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Quote removal ==

Say, why was the "interrupted by carp" quote removed? I loved that one. --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Blame Savok, he thought it was unfunny. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:22, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

And regarding VengefulDonut stripping off that last one, PTTG's quote was simply hilarious. If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? --[[User:JT|JT]] 02:19, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Thinking on this some more, the idea that anyone can just reverse a quote at their leisure strikes me as unusual. If a quote is an obvious spam, that's one thing; if a quote is something that ''you'' don't think of as funny, I think there should be some sort of consensus system involved. There are at least a couple existing quotes that I don't find funny in the slightest (Spiders Everywhere, you've been processed, GreyMario's), but I don't remove them. --[[User:JT|JT]]

My 2☼ on the subject: 
Unless a quote is offensively directed at a particular user/person, I don't see how there are any grounds for removal. 
If it is, it's perfectly acceptable for the addressed person to remove it, if they so choose. 
Additionally, you may remove quotes of yourself, whether or not they're offensive, regardless of who added the quote. 
In all cases, it's the sole responsibility of the addressed person to remove a quote, not someone else. 
I think that makes sense.. but perhaps I'm too far off base? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:When anyone is able to add a quote at their leisure, we will naturally end up with plenty of quotes that aren't funny. If anyone is able to remove a quote at their leisure, quotes that aren't funny will disappear. This is parallel to the wikipedia editing process in general, and I think this kind of process has decent results. Although I am open to other proposals.
:On the topic of racy jokes: I'm sure there are plenty of group-targeted jokes that could be stated in DF terms that would be very funny; just pick a group, a metaphor, and a stereotype. But even if you tell a member of that group to grow a thicker skin or to stop taking themselves seriously or learn to take a joke, it doesn't turn the joke from something alienating to something entertaining. In the right context, those kinds of jokes can be very funny even to those on the butt end of them. Standup comedians succeed or fail based on their ability to create it. But I don't think that the front page is the right context. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:24, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

::Unless its blantantly offensive I don't think "unfunny" is a reason to remove a quote, we each have our own sense of humour, such debate should be placed here on the discussion page imo. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Bleh. I'd like to, but nobody answers most discussion page debates in reasonable time. If we become more regularly active in discussion page debates (which isn't hard - we've got several that any experienced player can add to), we might be able to do that. As it is, the responses are usually at least a few days, often months apart. And then, occasionally, we get one that has five people with fifteen comments in a day or two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

As I've said before, if you want to revert those of my deletes that you really think should stay, that's fine. The way I see it, and the way some have said before me, anybody can, if they think it's funny enough, add a quote to the page. Of course, we will get some pretty poor quotes that way, so anyone can, if they dislike it enough, delete a quote from that page. If an edit war occurs, we can take it to the talk page (with the war attention, we'll actually have commenters), where it can be resolved. We Are Not Wikipedia. We're too small for that; everyone knows everyone else and anyone can monitor all edits if they have a little time to spend. 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], rambling at 23:45, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

== [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19686.msg206978#msg206978 Too untasteful?] ==

I found this on the forums:
<div style="width: 12em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' 
Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching</div>
For? Against? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. DF has people exploding in gore. Besides, these words are in the game anyway.
-- [[User:InquisitorSaturn|InquisitorSaturn]] 01:44, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm for it. Lets be honest; how many people are likely to come to this wiki that aren't mature enough to enjoy a little mature humor. If anything people are more likely to complain that it didn't make them laugh then that they are worried that kids might see it. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 01:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

:Nobody gives a fuck about the kids, man. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

For - Very funny and clever --[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 17:33, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Against. I think it might be funny once or twice, but it is not necessarily something that I want to see on the front page for hours until the quote changes again. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 10:26 June 14 (MST)

:Mmmm... against. When there were 2 quotes on the page, maybe. But now that there's only 1, I'd rather not have this be "representative" of any DF experience, when it's simply not. In fact, it has nothing to do with DF - it's just crude. (Not that that's a bad thing - it just has nothing to do with DF.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:41, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Multi-Line Quotes ==

I assumed your multi-line quote was an error because it rendered incorrectly when it appeared on http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote , and did so again when you restored the original. I've re-re-restored it in the interests of peace but I do note that the text extends outside the box and one line actually appears below the box. I'm less certain whether it appears this way on the main page. Perhaps we need a different way to enter multi-line quotes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:The quote that's causing problems is kinda long, either way. How about we just bonk it on the head?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:15, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
::But it's funny. :( --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 01:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

:Just out of curiosity, what browser? It appears just fine in Firefox 2. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:39, 4 November 2008 (EST)
::Firefox 3. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:My multi-line quote (shown below) doesn't appear to break anything (browser used: Firefox 3). --[[User:Beerdude26|Beerdude26]] 15:26, 22 January 2009 (EST)

<blockquote>
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"

'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
</blockquote>

== Okay wtf who broke shit where. ==

On the main page, the second random quote is just a '. WHAT GIVES? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:I can't find any recent changes to the code of the selector, and given that the first selector works, it's hard to blame a syntax error either. The mainpage does a weird thing to guarantee the quotes are different, passing |1 to the page as a parameter or...something. Someone who knows wikicode may know what's going on. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:13, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::The problem is a bit deeper. [[template:rand]] and [[template:rand2]] use the mod function inside a #expr to mod the current timestamp and return a number in a specified range. The mod function is returning negative values for large inputs (this is a bug). Since it seems I can't guarantee a positive number will have a positive mod, I don't know how to modify the templates to make sure they keep returning positive numbers. Smaller inputs would be nice, but I need it to vary with time, and those are the ones that are blowing it up. Also, I don't have absolute value or any binary number operations, so those methods are out. Absolute value would be available with a newer version of parser functions, but convincing [[user:senso|Senso]] is an obstacle there. I'm really not sure how to remedy this. Anyone have ideas? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::: I say divide the end result before modulusing by 4. That'll still give pseudo-random numbers, just less often, and might work until a better fix rears its not-so-ugly head. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:12, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::: <s>Good idea. I'll try it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:21, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::: Didn't work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::: Feel free to fool around with [[template:rand]] and push a fix if you can find one. Just make sure to preview. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:24, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Ah well, it was worth a shot. I'll see what I can come up with in the [[Template:Sandbox|sandbox]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:31, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::<s>UPDATE: It appears using <tt><nowiki>{{#expr: ((({{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} / 1024) + {{CURRENTDAY}} + {{CURRENTMONTH}}) mod {{{1|100}}}) + 1}}</nowiki></tt> seems to produce positive numbers for now. I'll go update [[Template:Rand2]] and see if it works.</s> <s>So much for that, but at least it was returning positive numbers. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:42, 20 November 2008 (EST)</s>
:::::Okay, I blame certain things being slow for the fact that it works over in the Sandbox but not in the Main Page/Quote template. :S But the good news is, it's at least producing a result over at the sandbox. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Can you use an <nowiki> {{ #ifexpr: {{{num}}} >= 0 | {{{num}}} | {{ #expr: {{{num}}} * -1 }} }} </nowiki> to replace abs? (I may have the syntax slightly wrong.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:09, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::Good call, Maximus. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:04, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::::You know, I thought of that just last night but was too busy falling asleep. :( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::::::I stole it off your desk.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:06, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Here we go again! It's started displaying the telltale ' again. D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST) UPDATE: It's just gone away again. Might be worth a try to check the conditions next time it does it D: --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:08, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::Should be fixed now. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:04, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== What's This Jreengus Stuff About, Anyway? ==

Googling it just gets me pages telling me it's funny for those in the know somehow. If any place ought to have an explanation it's the wiki. That's what it's there for! :) --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:05, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Kobolds speak gibberish. The code that named an event allowed the kobolds to name it (when they won? maybe.), and that caused the name of an event to sometimes be a single word of gibberish. Toady mentioned that somewhere in some part of the dev notes.
:That's it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:17, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal. ==

Haaaaawhaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Awesome. We need more quotes that are as funny as this. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:48, 25 November 2008 (EST)

== Long quotes ==

"Engraved on the wall is a masterfully designed image of a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf engraving on a wall. The engraving is a dwarf mining out a wall." Yes this is a long quote but it's also funny, why ditch it? I didn't see any long quotes breaking the mainpage the way multi-line quotes did. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:They make the main page look like crap by stretching the quote box and pushing down everything else. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Surely there are other places to put funny things. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Not really, unless you mean 'keep this stuff off the wiki'. No, quotes aren't a big deal. They're just fun, i.e. 'the entire point'. ;p The Quote_Archive is an obvious aging relic, and ought to go anyway since there's no sense having multiple, separate pages of slightly different functionality and identical content patchily duplicating each other. I wonder if the quote wikicode could be done the other way around... I might play around on my talk page and see if I can build a useful something. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::The Quote Archive was originally created as a place for quotes to go to never be deleted, so that it wouldn't be that bad if someone lost a quote from Main Page/Quote. When I created it, I didn't realize the effort it would take to update it, so I'm going to go over there now and clean it up, making it all plaintext.
:::Also, I concur with Vengeful that the long quotes are overly ugly on the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:35, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::::Not arguing with that. I usually run screens at a high resolution so I didn't notice the stretching myself. I do think multiple quote pages is pointless though, 'specially considering folk like me will happen upon them and helpfully transfer stuff from one to the other... Not that I would, but I had often considered doing so, obviously misunderstanding your intent in all that duplicate information. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:I agree in principle - many recently deleted are not (imo) a dealbreaker, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I just posted a guideline at the top of the page which reads:
::LIMIT QUOTES TO 150 CHARACTERS (as most are below)
::LONGER QUOTES MAY BE SNIPPED OR DELETED!
:- which seems the max currently. (Only visible when editing, allcaps for max visibility/impact.)
:I also edited several existing long quotes into shorter, acceptable format - some of those were funny, and while changing others' quotes is not my preferred option, this is a wiki, and it's that or lose them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Edit Warring ==
I see GreyMario has taken it upon himself to remove quotes by the dozen, most of which had previously been added back after someone noticed their mysterious absence. Clearly your sense of humor is not everyone's or people wouldn't have to keep adding them back, could you just leave it be instead of editwarring? Can someone give us a revert, please? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:Except they were removed because they were unfunny by popular vote. People should really put it up to a vote when it comes to adding them back. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::I must have missed this, where did it happen? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::In general, I think the replacement of deleted quotes is more of a problem than their deletion. As long as they are added just once and deleted just once, we won't have an edit war even with conflicting views of humor. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I agree, most of those votes were not funny. They were not even remotely close to my "mind like a +whatever trap+" quote, and it's hard to be worse than that and still funny. Anyway, edit warring=no, people should ask what happened to them and it then should be explained exactly what did happen. Personally, I think that they should be left on the quote archive, but not popping up on the main page for all to see.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 12:12, 5 January 2009 (EST)

== 6 deleted quotes - call for opinions ==

Here are 6 quotes that were deleted after being added. I believe they are worth keeping - wouldn't have added them if I didn't, but one other user disagreed enough to delete them all. Opinions on any or all are requested.

:*Look, there's sentient lava outside, & the only survivor is issuing mandates to the empty halls. This isn't going to get better.

:*On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human reading a dwarf fortress wiki. The human has '''no clue''' what is going on.

:*Seeing a dwarf give birth while sparring was scary, but worse was when she picked the child up & continued fighting.

:*The merchants won't leave because I killed their guys & I can't drown them because there's a shoe in the floodgate.

:*All I do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever to flood the central chamber, & the goblins start sorting themselves by density.

:*The mayor sent me to kill the crocodile that killed my last 3 characters - again... I think he's catching on that I want to kill him.
--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::It's worth noting that these are all misquotes. They have been modified from their original versions. Since these is a list of '''quotes''' rather than just '''jokes''' misquotes do not belong here. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::IMO, we don't even credit the quotes so it's not ''that'' important to keep the original phrase intact. The quotes are here to add a funny aspect to the front page, it's not like we're quoting the President about some Important Matter. If a quote breaks the box, I say it's fine to shorten it until it fits, as long as the original spirit is kept. We could always ask the quote's author for their approval, if it's that important. Can we track the origin of those quotes? If not, let's edit them since nobody can prove they're actual quotes anyway. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:52, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If we're not going to pretend that we're quoting people, perhaps we should rename the page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::A bunch of sentences without any credits are not proper quotes so in fact, the Quotes page has never really been about quoting people, it's seen as a repository of funny quips about DF. Personally, I don't think it's important enough to start finding all the real authors and adding the authors to the quotes when they appear on the front page. We're not going to bicker about the definition of the word "Quote" and if it's a valid designation or not for that page, I'll leave that kind of debate for Wikipedia. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "quotes" were made up for that list anyway. My final opinion is this: The more sentences we have in that list the better, I don't mind if there is no source attribution. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 00:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

::I like quote 2 (forum + wiki) so much that I'ld be willing to re-add it myself; don't care about the rest. --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 15:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:''Restore'' And I'll also echo Senso's sentiments on the matter. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== Signatures ==

Do we want to include signatures? ("Toady" and a few other notables being exceptions). Isn't that a bit against the anonymous/collective idea of a wiki? Doesn't that personalize the edits and hurt the overall process? (And risk turning this into a "look at me!" page?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Prickle berry

2009-06-27T06:13:54Z

N9103: linkfix. no piping in external links. just a space. Preview is your friend, as is link hovering ;)

Maybe it would be better to compile these new plants under [[wild plants]] and make a table, showing

- crop seasons
- brews to make X
- cooks to make Y
- other by-products (plant fibers?)

----

The Prickle Berry page says that the plant's habitat is "Aboveground dry not freezing", but I'm currently playing on a freezing tundra, and picking dozens of them. Is this a bug, or is the "not freezing" part incorrectly labeled? --[[User:Attorneyatlawl|Attorneyatlawl]] 16:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
: It might be that you have two (or more) biomes in your region and one of them is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_m_planet capable of supporting life], that is, not freezing. :) --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 22:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:VengefulDonut

2009-06-23T21:16:52Z

N9103: /* Aquifer Video Tutorial */

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. This is a template.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Never put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code> after each line.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Don't put things in the wrong sections. If necessary, create a section.
* Most importantly, [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

Well, since linking externally isn't popular, and copying part-content isn't popular, might as well give up --[[User:TinyPirate|TinyPirate]] 05:11, 19 February 2009 (EST)

Re Parser Functions: Hmm... it was working in august, and supposedly in january at some point.
I guess i'll have to stop using my templates that relies on it, even though it was working back in august. :| thanks for the info -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 02:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Why did you revert my work on the [[Metal]] page about the different [[Value]] gains for making [[Billon]] with different [[ores]]?--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 05:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== re stones ==

Thanks for the input - don't want to overstep trying to be "helpful" if I'm working off of bad info. But ''is'' a vein of Al an anomaly in the current version? I'm unsure how to read the RAW's at that level.

(edit) - matgloss_stone_mineral says...
"[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]"
- is that supposed to be small clusters ''only''? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

== "Refined Coal" vs "Fuel" ==

Hey - okay, I've learned a lot since the above changes. About the game, about this wiki - thanks again for your comments. On a different subject...

I find the term "refined coal" unnecessarily confusing. Refined coal, charcoal, bituminous coal - and coke (which is like coal, right?). But doesn't only mined coal get refined? Wood is not refined - charcoal is not coal - does charcoal get refined after it's produced? Bleh. When I first read that page, a day-one n00b in the game, it was complete gibberish, and even now it takes some wading through. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but still...

I never see the term "refined coal" used anywhere in the game or forums. However, you are the one who originally changed the designated term from fuel to rc in the first place, over a year ago...

:''"6:28, 21 February 2008 VengefulDonut (Talk | contribs) m (Refined Coal moved to Refined coal: in accordance to naming conventions)"''

What are the "naming conventions" you are referring to? Was that simply to match the term used in the article to the page title?

I'd like to put that entire article under "Fuel", and retire the term "refined coal" in favor of that word. Nothing else need change - with the exception of that one term, the page as is would be copied/pasted and moved whole cloth. (Currently, "fuel" redirects to the "refined coal" page.) A short explanation on th RC page, to save the history & directing people to Fuel. Redirects from "charcoal" and "coke" would go to "fuel". Any coal would then be ''either'' Bituminous or Char-, and the world a little brighter. imo.

But, while "B" is for [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Community Portal#B|Bold]], I thought there was nothing lost in asking your opinion on the move first, since you were the one to see cause to change it in the first place. (respond on my page or in forums if you'd prefer) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was
"Refined Coal"....
...However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only
"refined coal" appears in-game. VengefulDonut 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah - all I could tell from the history was that you were the first to replace the term "fuel" with refined coal". Hmmm - when you have none and try to queue a task at a conventional smelter, you get the message '''"Must have coal fuel"''' - yet another vague and inaccurate term with "coal" - bonus. When you have some but run out before your queued tasks are complete, you get the '''"jpb cancels smelt <ore>: needs refined coal"''' message you are remembering. So much for in-game consistency (much less clarity).

The term "fuel" is what's used commonly (if informally) as a clear catch-all for both types - when you read the instructions "you need fuel for a smelter", that's both accurate and not misleading. A wiki needs to be sensitive to both the game and the players' usage, neh? The problem here is threefold - 1) that there is no single term, 2) that the (now two!) game terms are brutally misleading, and 3) that the chosen page title "refined coal" does necessarily refer to either "refined" nor "coal" - and all that should be made clearer, and avoid trying to use 4 terms with the word "coal" in them, including three that don't actually, technically refer only to coal. And all the more so since the in-game text doesn't go there.

If we direct both "coal fuel" and "refined coal" to a small explanation page, and then added a separate page to fully explain the concept of "fuel" (as the current page attempts, but without being a slave to the term "refined coal"), do you think that would cover it? Despite the confusion in the code, we can engineer a clear(er) understanding of what's going on for the new reader, which we ''don't'' have now.

Maybe something like this:

'''Refined coal''' and '''Coal fuel''' are both in-game terms for [[Fuel]]. At a conventional (non-magma) smelter,
cancellation the messages using these terms refer to the fact that there is no high-quality fuel available
to fire the smelter.
However, due to confusion between the terms "refined coal", "coal fuel", "[[charcoal]]", "[[bituminous coal]]",
and "[[coke]]", the term "[[fuel]]" is now more commonly seen and used, and you are now referred to [[Fuel|that page]].

Then, under "fuel" and using that term, each are explained clearly but without unnecessarily confusing terminology. If I were to do something along these lines and it's both clear and complete without being contradictory to the game terms, would you object? Because as is it's almost useless to newbies - we only understand it after we've played and figured it out ourselves, and that's not the point. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good advice, all makes sense, thanks. It's up. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== metal table ==

Inspired by the sortable gem table, I've beaten the [[metal#List of metals]] into submission - mostly. How to make colors sortable eludes me. You did the work to achieve that on the gems - if you care to repeat your magic, or point me where to find out how to. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:Completely by chance I stumbled on the solution to sorting the metal table - now fixed - explanation in my talk page.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Assorted armor articles ==

If you're not sure about something, please confirm it in talk pages rather than editing it into an article and leaving others to correct it. I suggest you read [[armor]] for a clearer understanding of the rules governing what clothes you can wear over others. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:I can't make head nor tail of that article. It's a jumbled mess, and needs fixing. So either help fix it, or stop complaining. Although, yeah, I should have asked someone. Like you. What the heck are the rules about wearing items?!?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::"Help fix it or stop complaining" you say. I actually don't have a problem with how the [[armor]] article is right now. The in-game system is wacky and convoluted. My grasp on it is far from complete, and several of the tags completely throw me for a loop. [[Armor]] really is your best bet. If that's too difficult for you, you're better off working on a different topic. I think common sense says that you need to know something yourself in order to teach others about it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I get how it works. I don't get how that article works. Although I am a little fuzzy on some of the specifics, such as tunics vs. shirts. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 04:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::::If you get how it works, why are high boots not better than low boots? :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::you can't wear them with something, due to the way the coverage works. And they weigh a bunch more. Something to do with how much of the leg they cover.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 04:51, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::P.S. Maybe. I'm not sure, just something floating in the back of my head.
::::::It's because they are completely identical except for their weight and material size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::lies.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! [ITEM_SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS]
! [ITEM_SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW]
|-
| [NAME:high boot:high boots]]
| [NAME:low boot:low boots]
|-
| [WEIGHT:20]
| [WEIGHT:15]
|-
| [VALUE:15]
| [VALUE:15]
|-
| [ARMORLEVEL:1]
| [ARMORLEVEL:1]
|-
| [BLOCKPOWER:60]
| [BLOCKPOWER:60]
|-
| [UPSTEP:1]
| '''No corresponding tag'''
|-
| [METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
| [METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
|-
| [LAYER:OVER]
| [LAYER:OVER]
|-
| [COVERAGE:100
| [COVERAGE:100]
|-
| [LAYER_SIZE:25]
| [LAYER_SIZE:25]
|-
| [LAYER_PERMIT:15]
| [LAYER_PERMIT:15]
|}
See that place where there is no tag? That means that low boots do not extend to the lower leg. High boots do. That is why they are different.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 05:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

::Oh, good call. Hmm, [[armor]] doesn't even mention that kind of thing. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

: ''"I get how it works..."''
:While I admit acknowledge your effort and enthusiasm, the content indicates otherwise. Too many factual and practical errours.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::Which is why we all need to work on it. I haven't been here long enough to know the mechanics very well. I'm still practicing not dying to gobbos in my third seige.(first two are ok, third gets hard.)--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page ==

Hi. You took it upon yourself to decide "When a quote was too long", and deleted a half-score of them. Some would call that "arrogant", but that's just another word for self-confident - and that's certainly called for at times. As it is, I happen to agree with you in this case - they were too long. But that doesn't change the fact that you projected guidelines when there were no guidelines to be followed, for better or worse. It's questionable for any user to presume to dictate to others something that is personal style and not written policy, I think we would agree on that. There are no DF wiki guidelines on "spellchecking a quote", or "what defines a quote", etc. etc. I'll leave the synthesis of these various statements to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Gallery ==

It's a nice addition, but I noticed atleast one faulty image that is from an older version of DF, and might not be appropriate for something that displays on the front page. 
Not sure what you think of it, but ''File:Tshaped-smooth(Raynard).png'' probably should be one of those orphans that needs to be deleted, rather than placed in a gallery to be featured on the Main Page. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:Not really, and since the Orphaned Pages Special Page seems to be broken, I can't really pick them from random either. Might not be a bad idea to add images from D for Dwarf pages though. The quotes are generally funnier than not, so it wouldn't be a bad idea for the SSG to be of similar direction. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

== rope/chain/restraint double redirects ==

Some of those were doubles, and some were pointing to rope/chain when they should have pointed to restraint (or being sloppy in distinguishing between those terms in the article.) After the first several I gave up trying to distinguish, and just changed them all on gp. Altho' it was more editing, it wasn't any slower than picking and choosing. Call me lazy.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
:Um, you're not explaining anything I don't already know. Some of the links linked to the [[chain]] page and then that to the [[restraint]] page, yes. But some needed rewrites as well, because a "chain" is not what you use for Justice, you use a "restraint". It's not about what I did, I just labeled them all the same rather than come up with an exact explanation for each one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

==concerning Refuse stockpile==
I couldnt agree more, but i was sorta complying with a comment on my talk page, so be prepared for a re add.. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 16:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Aquifer Video Tutorial ==

Looks great! I'm glad you got around to this, because I wasn't ever quite sure what you meant with the up/down staircases, and for whatever reason, constructing floors never occurred to me. One small issue, is that it seems you were recording with an FPS cap of only 25. This makes the standard playing speed a bit too fast for most people I'd say. It's great for the most part, but the text might be a bit too fast for some people. Other than that, it's practically perfect! (I wonder how hard it would be to splice all those together for a YouTube version, a la Capt'n Duck's series.)
-[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:Yea, the cap is a good idea, especially to speed up the dull parts on replay. Figured out what you're going to do about Pt 5? Seems like #6 is really short, and could take that extra time easily. Just a matter of piecing the replays together I'd say. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-06-23T16:47:05Z

N9103: /* Add a CptnDuck page? */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:VengefulDonut

2009-06-23T16:35:30Z

N9103: /* Aquifer Video Tutorial */ new section

User talk:Birthright

2009-06-19T23:43:05Z

N9103: /* Refuse/Stockpile merge */ take an inch, go for the whole mile.

Welcome!

===Refuse/Stockpile merge===
Merging is fine, but you shouldn't leave out parts that are relevant. (In this case, you left out the note that using diagonals is an exploit.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

: Because i don't consider it one. And relevance?? Lots of disc. about what is an exploit in DF. Not much diff. if you put a doubledoor instead. Besides, we have the exploit page for that. But if it hurts you, add it. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

::If necessary, we can make an article on speculation of what changes will be made to DF mechanics in the future. Even if we do, though, that article isn't [[refuse stockpile]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Then [[Special:Search?search=exploit&fulltext=Search|all the other references to exploits]] need to be removed as well, which is rather foolish, as it simply serves to screw up newbies when something they didn't think would change, suddenly does, because they'll no longer know that certain things that are possible in-game, aren't the way they're intended to be. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== New User Greeting ==

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. This is a template.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Never put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code> after each line.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Don't put things in the wrong sections. If necessary, create a section.
* Most importantly, [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

User talk:Birthright

2009-06-19T07:45:22Z

N9103: /* New User Greeting */ new section

Welcome!

===Refuse/Stockpile merge===
Merging is fine, but you shouldn't leave out parts that are relevant. (In this case, you left out the note that using diagonals is an exploit.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
: Because i don't consider it one. And relevance?? Lots of disc. about what is an exploit in DF. Not much diff. if you put a doubledoor instead. Besides, we have the exploit page for that. But if it hurts you, add it. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== New User Greeting ==

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. This is a template.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Never put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code> after each line.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Don't put things in the wrong sections. If necessary, create a section.
* Most importantly, [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

User talk:Birthright

2009-06-18T23:48:56Z

N9103: RE: Refuse/Stockpile merge

40d:Refuse

2009-06-17T01:33:29Z

N9103: non-diagonal spread containment = exploit

'''Refuse''' is a [[Stockpile|stockpile]] meant to designate where garbage can be placed. A typical refuse pile will hold items like [[Bone|bones]], [[Shell|shells]], non-[[Pet|pet]]/friendly [[Corpse|corpses]], remains, [[Chunk|chunks]], and any worn out items such as [[Clothing|clothing]].

Corpses, chunks, body parts, [[Skin|skin]], and food all can rot, emitting [[Miasma|miasma]] when stored on {{DFtext|Inside |#808000}}{{DFtext|Dark |#808080}}{{DFtext|Subterranean|#808080}} tiles. It is important to know where you want to place your refuse stockpile beforehand, as miasma causes an [[Thought#Unhappy_thoughts|unhappy thought]]. Designating a refuse stockpile on any tile with {{DFtext|Light |#ff0}}{{DFtext|Above Ground|#0f0}} will prevent miasma and makes the items subject to seasonal cleanups (this includes bones, skulls, and shells). If you want a stockpile inside your fortress, you can contain miasma with walls and doors. Alternatively, you can dig an open pit down to the [[Z-axis|z-level]] most convenient for you. Light need only touch the tile once for it to become permanently {{DFtext|Light |#ff0}}{{DFtext|Above Ground|#0f0}}, after which you can rebuild the roof.

It is a good idea to use two layers of doors (i.e. a short corridor with two doors, one after the other). This is to prevent miasma from leaking out into the fortress if a dwarf uses the door at the wrong time. You can contain miasma completely by building a diagonal entrance to the refuse area, since miasma cannot travel diagonally. This is considered an exploit however, and is likely to be fixed/changed at some point.

[[Category:Stockpiles]]

40d Talk:Trap design

2009-06-16T01:39:40Z

N9103: /* Bridge Land Mines */

:'''Editors & Contributors''' - Please include diagrams or ''clear'' and well-sized [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images images]] if appropriate. For diagrams, use [[Character table|standard Dwarf Fortress symbols]] for your diagrams - an x is an up/down stairwell, a ╬ is a fortification, a ▲ is an up-ramp/slope, etc. etc. For screenshots, use the standard tileset, not a custom one that few may recognize.

:Please do NOT add a "theoretical" trap design, that you have not actually tested, unless you are 100% sure it will work.

:If your suggestion is lengthy and complex, consider placing it on your User: page with simpler explanation and a link here.

:Lastly, if you can keep similar or alternate suggestions grouped within like subsections/topics/categories, that would be a good thing. Future wiki users and DF players thank you.

=New Pages, new organization=
There had been about 5-6 pages on "defense", and articles and advice on various topics were scattered and repeated across all of them. This is an effort to re-organize them into 4 tightly defined and user-friendly topics using current DF wiki naming conventions - a General guide and overview [[Defense guide]], and 3 articles on specific design - layout and architecture ([[Defense design]]), traps ([[Trap design]]), and specific advice on organizing your military ([[Military design]]).

Discussion from any pages removed or renamed will be placed (or linked) under one of those four.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== Dragonfire Pillbox ==

Does anyone know if this will/not work? Do captured dragons flame at kobolds/orcs/siegers? Can this also be used w/ fire imps? (I think the answer to that last is "no" - iirc, imps need to have a path to their targets, which would require that a trap be much more complex - but still possible.)
:If there is no confirmation, we should probably delete the design, unfortunately.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
::Don't be lame. It would totally work. Just nobody has done it yet.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:::The only thing "lame" would be including a design that is based on guesswork and doesn't actually work. I've read forum articles about this same set-up w/ fire imps NOT working - because they need a [[path]] to their target. And some creatures don't attack goblins unless they're [[Modding guide|modified]] to do so - very disappointing, but true. I just don't remember if the same is true with dragons or not - do you?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Weapon trap 'Spike strips'==
Despite the image, no, its not for wagons, but rather its an idea I have for killing animals like maybe unicorns. I'm in an area with plenty of unicorns (didn't bring along hunters and its still my first year of the fortress), and stuff made from unicorn parts are generally valuable, right? Also, knowing from the entry saying that they are rather dangerous, I have an idea of a way to get materials from them with minimal risk to the dwarves. My idea is to have an area of weapon traps, most likely single weapon traps to minimize corpse mangling, and maybe have them in rows or a grid in an area so that the animals will cross and die. This could also apply to huntable creatures that are able to move fast like gazelles. I haven't actually done this and so I don't know how effective it would really be. Of course though, there is no real substitue for a good hunter as far as bringing back an intact corpse 100% of the time.....as long as the corpse isn't the hunters....--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 18:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Bridge Land Mines ==

Pretty sure this is another Guessworked idea, as you can't build anything directly on a bridge. 
Nominate for removal unless someone's got proof otherwise. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:One of the masses of text I copied/pasted when re-formating the previous jumble. I'm going to ''guess''(?) that the OP meant a constructed span, and not a retractable/drawbridge, since he mentions a length of "at least 20 tiles" and that would be the max for ''two'' retractable bridges ''if'' they met in the middle. That would allow you to build the pp's on the span, but it would also mean that the collapse would take down the span, right? Dunno, never gone there myself. If you're sure it's faulty, scratch it. Or, better, rewrite it so it would work - on solid ground, for instance, with channels on either side. The "knock your enemy out" ploy should be represented in some form.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Hmm, I guess that could've been faulty wording on their part. I wouldn't really know anything about developing/deploying traps that aren't simple and straightforward, as my fortress design sticks to the KISS principals. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 01:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-15T21:44:16Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Tilessets */

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-14T21:21:27Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Tilessets */

40d:Bauxite

2009-06-14T04:13:54Z

N9103: No need for a pipe when the raw version is what's actually used in mechanism-making. Prior version could lead to trying to make a mechanism from wafers.

{{Stone|name=Bauxite|tile=+|color=#800
|location =
* [[Sedimentary layer]]s
* Found as large clusters
|properties =
* [[Magma proof]]
* [[Material value]] 1}}
Bauxite is the only [[stone]], apart from [[Raw adamantine]], which is suitable for the construction of [[mechanism]]s to be used in [[floodgate]]s which will come into contact with [[magma]]. Unfortunately bauxite can be found only in sedimentary areas, which are rare around volcanoes. However, you can trade for ''Bauxite stones'' with the Dwarven caravans. They're not expensive, and you should get enough to make a few bauxite mechanisms (just make sure their wagons make it to your trade depot alive and in one piece of course). You can also plan ahead and buy some before embarking. Just be sure to keep your mason away from them until you turn them into mechanisms; [[forbid]] them until you are ready, if need be.

Bauxite is the only stone that contains [[Gem#Precious|rubies]] or [[Gem#Precious|sapphires]], found as small [[cluster]]s.

While Bauxite is an [[aluminum]] ore, the technology to extract aluminum from it does not exist in the game setting.

{{Rocks}}
[[Category:Stone]]
[[Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers]]

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-14T03:34:58Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Tilessets */ hmm... interesting amibugity I hadn't noticed there.

40d Talk:Trap design

2009-06-14T00:42:13Z

N9103: /* Bridge Land Mines */ new section

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-14T00:28:06Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Tilessets */ new section

40d Talk:Refuse

2009-06-10T20:48:26Z

N9103: /* Miasma and Location */

==chasm==
Is it possible to use a bottomless chasme as a refuse pit?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:22, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:Quite possible, and is the intended use for garbage dump zones, as evidenced by the {{k|o}}->{{k|r}} menu that has "Chasm xxx" as opposed to "Dump xxx" or somesuch. Just don't forget that you can't recover anything that gets tossed in there, (i.e. excess stone that you're simply moving out of the way, as opposed to say rotten food or other 'never useful' items.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:26, 8 January 2008 (EST)

==Refuse Hauling==

Does anyone have any tips on refuse hauling? I have a refuse pit, quite close to my food stockpile but separated by doors. However, the dwarves will often leave the corpses of vermin lying around my food stockpile, generating [[miasma]] in the food stockpile, when I'd far rather they just cleaned up more quickly. Sometimes it helps to mark the vermin corpses for [[dump]]ing, but I'm not patrolling the food stockpile six times a season to look for corpses! Is there any way to make the dwarves prioritise [[clean]]ing higher? --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 05:55, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:You could always give the cleaning labor to some peasants. You could have the entire floor as a retractable bridge, so you could dump all the rubbish below. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::AFAIK, the cleaning labor causes dwarves to clean up mud, blood, and broken bolts. Refuse hauling makes them haul vermin corpses. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:55, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:Make a dwarf focus on refuse hauling, if nothing else works. [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 22:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

==Miasma and Location==
I've been working on a glass fortress and my refuse stockpile is {{DFtext|Inside |#808000}}{{DFtext|Light |#ff0}}{{DFtext|Above Ground|#0f0}}; I have yet to see it emit miasma once even with a booming meat industry. Perhaps it isn't the Inside/Outside flag but the Light/Dark flag that determines if miasma is emitted? Could also be the Above Ground/Subterranean flag, doesn't matter which as you'll never get {{DFtext|Inside |#808000}}{{DFtext|Light |#ff0}}{{DFtext|Subterranean|#808080}}. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 12:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

:Perhaps, but if that's the case, you might also be losing bones and any other refuse in there to the Seasonal Cleanup process. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Custom grid

2009-06-10T05:37:02Z

N9103: /* Windowed combinations */

Version 0.28.181.39f introduced the ability to increase the grid from 80 tiles wide by 25 tiles high to as many as 200 by 200.
The resolution and font are still a critical concern and must be calculated to match, to avoid strange results and crushed fonts.

'''To work out what grid size you want for a given screen resolution and font tile size:'''
# Determine your tile size. This may be found by dividing the x value of the intended screen resolution of the font by the x value of the grid, and then the y values are divided by each other. Example: If we use the default grid size, 80:25, and the resolution of curses_800x600.bmp, 800x600, then we would divide 800 by 80 to get 10 and 600 by 25 to get 24. This means our tiles are each 10x24. Note the tiles in curses_800x600.bmp are actually 10x12.
# Divide the x value of your screen resolution by the x value of the tile size to determine your wanted x grid value, then do the same with the y values to determine your y grid value.
# Change the [GRID] entry in the init.txt file to reflect your changes.
* Note: if your font is, for example, a 16x16 font, as specified in the filename, this means that each tile is intended to be 16x16 pixels in size, and you may therefore avoid the mathematics in step 1

==Notes==
* The title screen will be situated in the top right of the screen, instead of centred.
* Setting [TEXTURE_PARAM:LINEAR] instead of [TEXTURE_PARAM:NEAREST] will make squished tiles better looking.

== Notable Combinations ==
* [FULLSCREENX:1600], [FULLSCREENY:1200], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:200:100] (640x300 is 8x12 per tile)
* [FULLSCREENX:800], [FULLSCREENY:600], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:100:50] (640x300 is 8x12 per tile)
* [FULLSCREENX:1920], [FULLSCREENY:1200], [FONT:curses_800x600.bmp], [GRID:192:100] (800x600 utilized at 10x12 per tile, for an almost square aspect ratio with lots of view space)
* [FULLSCREENX:1280], [FULLSCREENY:1024], [FONT:{any 16x16 font}], [GRID:80:64]
* [FULLSCREENX:1680], [FULLSCREENY:1050], [FONT:{any 16x16 font}], [GRID:105:65]

====Windowed combinations====
* [WINDOWEDX:1272], [WINDOWEDY:960], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:160:80]

== External links ==
*[http://www.vaevictus.net/dfcalc.html DF Grid Calculator] - A javascript tool to help with the above calculations.

{{Game Interface FAQ}}

40d:Custom grid

2009-06-10T05:36:47Z

N9103: /* Notable Combinations */ Windowed 1280x1024

Version 0.28.181.39f introduced the ability to increase the grid from 80 tiles wide by 25 tiles high to as many as 200 by 200.
The resolution and font are still a critical concern and must be calculated to match, to avoid strange results and crushed fonts.

'''To work out what grid size you want for a given screen resolution and font tile size:'''
# Determine your tile size. This may be found by dividing the x value of the intended screen resolution of the font by the x value of the grid, and then the y values are divided by each other. Example: If we use the default grid size, 80:25, and the resolution of curses_800x600.bmp, 800x600, then we would divide 800 by 80 to get 10 and 600 by 25 to get 24. This means our tiles are each 10x24. Note the tiles in curses_800x600.bmp are actually 10x12.
# Divide the x value of your screen resolution by the x value of the tile size to determine your wanted x grid value, then do the same with the y values to determine your y grid value.
# Change the [GRID] entry in the init.txt file to reflect your changes.
* Note: if your font is, for example, a 16x16 font, as specified in the filename, this means that each tile is intended to be 16x16 pixels in size, and you may therefore avoid the mathematics in step 1

==Notes==
* The title screen will be situated in the top right of the screen, instead of centred.
* Setting [TEXTURE_PARAM:LINEAR] instead of [TEXTURE_PARAM:NEAREST] will make squished tiles better looking.

== Notable Combinations ==
* [FULLSCREENX:1600], [FULLSCREENY:1200], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:200:100] (640x300 is 8x12 per tile)
* [FULLSCREENX:800], [FULLSCREENY:600], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:100:50] (640x300 is 8x12 per tile)
* [FULLSCREENX:1920], [FULLSCREENY:1200], [FONT:curses_800x600.bmp], [GRID:192:100] (800x600 utilized at 10x12 per tile, for an almost square aspect ratio with lots of view space)
* [FULLSCREENX:1280], [FULLSCREENY:1024], [FONT:{any 16x16 font}], [GRID:80:64]
* [FULLSCREENX:1680], [FULLSCREENY:1050], [FONT:{any 16x16 font}], [GRID:105:65]

===Windowed combinations===
* [WINDOWEDX:1272], [WINDOWEDY:960], [FONT:curses_640x300.bmp], [GRID:160:80]

== External links ==
*[http://www.vaevictus.net/dfcalc.html DF Grid Calculator] - A javascript tool to help with the above calculations.

{{Game Interface FAQ}}

40d Talk:Glass

2009-06-09T22:05:44Z

N9103: /* The cake is a lie */

==Quantities Required==
Do some items require more sand than others? Or can you really make furniture from one bag each? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 17:33, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

:From my glass-tower fort days, I'm inclined to say 'yes'. Every glass item, from a gem to a floodgate, only requires one bag of sand. I certainly don't remember having any problems with running out of sand, once I started using the manager screen to order an equal amount of sand collection before each glass item order. Probably a good idea to test in the latest version though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 03:40, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just tested in 0.28.181.39c: A raw green glass (gem) and a green glass floodgate both used a single bag of sand (plus a unit of fuel). --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 05:35, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

==Glass Traps==
With v 33b, I have successfully made trap components without difficulty, so I've deleted the reference to bars being required. This raises the issue, however, of what damage rating the various sorts of glass get. As far as I can tell, glass doesn't appear in the mat glosses, so I'm not sure how to determine what the actual value is. Anyone have a suggestion? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:46, 22 November 2007 (EST)
:I can't answer your question of getting the data from the files, but apparently someone has confirmed glass as having 50% damage, so I removed your verify tag and pointed to my source. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 04:31, 22 November 2007 (EST)

==Products==
:"Raw glass is essentially a low-value gem, a frequent request of dwarves undergoing a strange mood. Given its abundance, raw green glass makes an excellent training material for practicing the gem cutting skill."
::In 33g, I'm having trouble making raw glass show up for cutting in the Jeweler's Workshop. GreyMario on #bay12games @ WorldIRC.net suggests that raw glass is not able to be cut to train the gem cutting skill. If it is possible to cut raw glass, is there something special that needs to be done, or some reason why it wouldn't show up in the screen? If it isn't possible, the above line needs to be removed from Products. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:19, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:::I believe there currently is a bug where raw and cut clear and crystal glass does not shop up on the jeweler's workshop screen. You can get around it with the manager. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 00:30, 26 February 2008 (EST)
::::Confirmed (33g). The manager can queue glass cutting jobs, which are then processed normally. I will make a note of this in the article. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:37, 26 February 2008 (EST)

==The Raw Glass==
:I am having trouble making raw glass i think its some kind of bug but when they go get the sand then they will bring it to the furnace only to stop making it and it will go off my que even if its on repeat, they do how ever use the sand so can my swarfs fail at making raw glass. i have this problem alot with my magma forges and furnaces [[User:Rock n rat|Rock n rat]
::Are you sure they didn't make raw glass and then run out of sand (Check your gem bins)? If you've got Collect Sand and Make Raw Glass both on repeat, when they run out of sand they'll switch to gather sand and when they run out of bags they'll switch to make raw glass. Occasionally they'll cancel one of them, but most of the time they'll just move the active job to the top. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:26, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::And you do have fuel for the furnace, right? Also, other than green glass needs additional materials. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Glass furniture made by a Mason? ==

According to [[gem]], it's possible to use glass (presumably they're talking about raw glass) as a stone for making tables and doors. If this is the case, there's no real point in having a skilled glassmaker, as you could just make raw glass for your highly-skilled masons. Thoughts? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:15, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:It's not like you're going to run out of stone. You can run out of gems, though, so if you want to train a gem cutter/setter, use raw glass. Aside from that, glass is most useful for making the things you can't make out of stone: trap weapons, terrariums, tubes, windows, vials... I think that's it. High-quality glass trap weapons (and terraria) are really quite good. Pity Toady still doesn't let us make glass [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboy demijohns].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:16, 7 December 2008 (EST)

::The only ores with value >3 are the iron ores, native silver, native gold, native platinum, native aluminum, and raw adamantine. It seems unlikely that you'll have enough of those to build all your fortress's furniture, but you might have enough clear glass. So clear glass furniture makes sense for a classy fortress. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:58, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:I don't think raw glass is usable in a mason's workshop (although it has been a long while since I last tried it). To get tables and chairs of glass you need to make them directly at the furnace. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:25, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:Clear glass is a pain to make. Woodcutting, ashery, kiln, glass furnace, plus sand collection and hauling for everything. In fact, it may be the single most complicated material to make in all of DF, short of crystal glass, which adds one more ingredient. Clear glass is fancy, certainly, but best left to challenge builds. And as far as I know, dwarves ignore item [[value]] -- a masterpiece basalt chair is a thing of beauty while a no-quality platinum table is ho-hum. (Item value contributes to overall bedroom value, but expensive ones are off-limits to non-legendary dwarves. Good food and drink is a much easier way to keep dwarves ecstatic.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:55, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Hmmm... You may be right about the quality thing. Looking at the thoughts page, we have one thought following the template "admired {a/own} {quality} {building} lately" and another following the template "admired (own?) very fine/splendid/wonderful/completely sublime/tastefully arranged ___ lately". So my guess is that the first thought depends only on quality, while the second thought depends on value. The second thought might only be for statues. As for clear glass, please do not doubt my mastery of efficient fortress design and operation. :-P [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:58, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:You can't make furniture from raw glass in the way you describe. Masons only use stones made of stone for their tasks (stones made of green glass are invalid, stones made of clear diamond are valid). Raw glass is a rough gem made of glass (rough gems made of granite are invalid). [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== raw glass cannot be cut by Jewelers to make glass gems ==

According to this article, raw glass can be cut by a gem cutter just like other rough gems.
I have produced raw glass. It has been placed in my gem stockpile (just like a rough or cut gem) but it does not appear in the workshop menu to be cut or encrusted. I repeat: raw glass does not appear as an option for cut or encrust. What am I missing here? Is this a bug in 40d? What the heck else is raw glass good for?!--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 02:08, 16 February 2009 (EST)

:As I recall, raw _green_ glass shows up just fine, but clear glass does not for some reason. Use the manager's screen to order clear glass to be cut. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:10, 16 February 2009 (EST)

::Ah, thank you very much! Indeed I have been making ''clear glass'' (I have never tried using the manager screen before either...)--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 08:13, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Glass is Magma-Proof? ==
I have some glass items that have been submerged in magma for an awful long time. Is glass somehow magma proof? Has anyone got molten glass or made glass buildings deconstruct under magma assault? --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 19:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

:The [[magma-safe materials]] page says that glass ''furniture'' won't melt when dumped in magma. It seems like a good thing to add to this article. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

:I have noticed the same thing for dumped iron weapons: They get dumped in magma and they didn't melt. Also, I had a floodgate that wasn't magma safe, but it didn't melt either. Is that a random chance thing or does it take time (it was only exposed for ~1 season)?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

==Limestone?==
Why was a comparison to the value of limestone added? I don't see the reason?--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 20:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

==The cake is a lie==
"Behind a green glass door, there is cinnamon grossular and yellow spessartine, but no pink garnet or purple spinel." Is this an in-joke or something? If so, I don't get it. (I've played Portal.) If it's not, then what is going on with this sentence? I'd recommend either explaining it or taking it out. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]]

:Read the article and was wondering what that line was referencing as well... Can anyone clarify? --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 05:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

::Check the history of a page next time. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:05, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Green glass as gems ==
i had a dwarf in a strange mood ignore my Raw Green glass, till i got some gems proper.. why was this (he did want uncut gems) [[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 04:50, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:That's because when he wants glass, he'll ask for glass. This time he wanted gems. Glass is not a gem, you know--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 10:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
::then the article will have to be changed, it is written to sound like he can use green glass as a gem[[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 00:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:VengefulDonut

2009-06-08T01:38:49Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Gallery */ not really...

User talk:VengefulDonut

2009-06-07T23:05:16Z

N9103: /* Screenshot Gallery */ new section

User talk:N9103

2009-06-05T22:11:46Z

N9103: Cleaning time!

__NOTOC__

== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==

Nice simplification on the containers page. Thanks. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 15:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Problems/mistakes/corrections ==
Forgive me for the occasional slip up. Just make a note here of where I managed to screw up, so that I may endeavor to learn from my mistakes.

40d:Extracts

2009-06-05T21:55:46Z

N9103: /* Farmer's workshop */

'''Extracts''' are items derived from animals. The way they are created depends on the type of creature from which they are derived. Most currently have no known uses, except as their value in trade.

==Producing extracts==
A variety of buildings allow you to produce extracts.

===Butcher's shop===
{{main|Butcher's shop}}
Certain [[vermin]] will yield extracts at the butcher's shop by using the {{k|e}}xtract from a dead animal task. Requires a living caged animal, a [[vial]], and a dwarf with the [[small animal dissection]] labor enabled.

*[[Fire snake]]s create [[Fire snake|Liquid fire]]
*[[Phantom spider]]s create venom and antivenin
*[[Cave spider]]s create venom and antivenin

===Farmer's workshop===
{{main|Farmer's workshop}}
With the appropriate caged animals and a [[milker]], you can produce milk at the farmer's workshop.
*[[Purring maggot|Purring Maggots]] create [[Dwarven milk|Dwarven Milk]]

Plant extracts are also produced at the farmer's workshop. Requires an extractable plant, a [[vial]], and a dwarf with the [[plant processing]] labor enabled.
*[[Kobold bulb]]s make five{{verify}} units of [[Gnomeblight]], each worth 100
*[[Valley herb]]s make five units of [[Golden salve]], each worth 100

Dwarven Syrup is also considered an extract under the stockpile menu, and is also created in the Farmers workshop via "Process plants (barrel)"
*[[Sweet pod]]s make [[Dwarven syrup|Dwarven Syrup]], worth 20

===Fishery===
{{main|Fishery}}
With a living caged fish and a [[fish dissector]], you can get extracts from our aquatic neighbors.
*[[Moghopper]] makes five units of [[Mog juice|Mog Juice]]

===Import only===
Currently, there are some extracts that cannot be produced on site and need to be imported.

*[[Snakeman]] Venom, worth 100
*[[Giant desert scorpion]] Venom
*[[Giant cave spider]] Venom
*[[Cow]]'s Milk
*One-humped [[Camel]]'s Milk
*Two-humped Camel's Milk

==See also==
*[[Milk]]
*[[Venom]]

[[Category:Extracts| ]]

User talk:Senso

2009-06-05T03:54:02Z

N9103: /* Extension request */

I used to go by the name Admin on the previous wiki.

Contact Info

- sensoz@gmail.com

- PM me on SA: Senso

== A request ==

Hullo! I've got a request that's fairly minor, though it's something only doable by an admin - copying the 'collapsible tables' code from Wikipedia's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js MediaWiki:Common.js] to [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] (or might have to be [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], I'm not sure if the configuration on this particular install is different). This would mainly be for the benefit of things like [[Template:Creatures]], to keep them as useful (go directly to related pages without loading a category page in-between) but without taking so much space on the screen. --[[User:Sukael|Sukael]] 15:50, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

: Done. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:20, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:: Thanks! As you can see at [[Template:Creatures]], it looks to be working perfectly. --[[User:Sukael|Sukael]] 21:12, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:::That's pretty fucking sweet. I didn't even know you could do that with MediaWiki. :)

== Wikipedia links ==

I've just noticed that when I'm not logged in, a link to a random Wikipedia help topic appears on every page in small font in the upper right. Is there any way to disable it? Most of the topics I've seen so far are pretty specific to Wikipedia and don't really belong here. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, it's annoying - I'll look into it. It seems to be well hidden into an obscure CSS file. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:33, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I don't know what's causing it, but putting this in [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]] should hide it:
div#anontip{
display:none;
}
:--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:13, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks, this seems to have fixed it. If you still see the links, do a full refresh. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:28, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

:::The wiki looks weird to me now. The page is rendered under the left toolbar, making it impossible to read and click links on that side.[http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/TurgidBolk/dfwikimessed.png screenshot]. It's with skins besides Monobook, and it looks fine in IE (but not in Opera). Is there some way I can fix it? If not, I could just live with another skin I suppose. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 22:56, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

::::I have the same problem (I use Opera as my main browser), I fired off an e-mail to Senso so he can fix it. It's incredibly annoying right now. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 02:23, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:::::'''It should be fixed now''', my apologies. I had put the code in Monobook's main CSS file so I removed it. If you still have issues, clear your browser cache and refresh the website. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 08:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

::::I've removed it. It works perfectly fine in Firefox but since it breaks Opera, I'll try to find a permanent solution, in the monobook CSS files directly. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:48, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

::I've found out what's actually causing it. In [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] there's this line:
<code><pre>
document.getElementById("contentSub").innerHTML +='<div style="position:absolute; z-index:100; right:100px; top:0px;" class="metadata" id="anontip"><div style="text-align:right; font-size:87%">• ' + messageEdu[whichMessageEdu] + ' •</div></div>';
</pre></code>
::Just remove it (search for 'anontip') and the tips should go away. (Alternately, you could change the "messageEdu[x] = 'foo';" lines to Dwarf Fortress related lines =) --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 15:53, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Well that seems to work! I've removed the line, logged out and refreshed - I don't see the quote anymore and the menus don't look broken. Can someone with IE and Opera let me know if everything is working correctly? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 08:31, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Confirming that Opera still works. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 10:19, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== Old Bloodline article in main namespace ==

There is probably an article named [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] in the main namespace that redirects to Outpost Ducimemal, which in turn redirects to the Bloodline namespaced Outpost Ducimemal. This is causing some confusion on the double redirects page. Is there any way to fix this? I can't seem to get at the mainspaced article to fix the redirect (though it would probably best be just to delete it). --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 20:20, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Thanks, I've deleted [[Outpost Ducimemal]], which was a redirect to [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] since I added the namespace. I don't think [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] redirects to anything. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:: It now shows up in [[Special:BrokenRedirects]]. This page exists from prior to the bloodline namespace being created and thus was in the main namespace but is now effectively masked by the bloodline namespace article. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 13:32, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:::The MediaWiki manual has some instructions on [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces#Dealing_with_existing_pages dealing with this]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:11, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::::Even easier: I've manually deleted the redirects in MySQL. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:35, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Database wierdness ==

Since you've fixed this before...

[[Special:Special pages]] -> [[Special:Lonelypages|Orphaned Pages]] -> How do I stop my retarded miners falling in channels as they dig them?

This gets redirected to ''How do I stop miners from falling in channels as they dig them?'' - however, it is not the same one you go to if you hit that page directly or through the FAQ. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 18:52, 6 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm looking into this. It seems that putting the '?' character in the title tends to break things.
[[File:Example.jpg]]

S - Wiki could not find this page, said to contact Admin: 
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Organiser
 (You can delete this once addressed, unless you see a need to save for posterity.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

We have a user blanking the main page and replacing it with racist slurs. [[Special:Contributions/spanky]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:25, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Hi. [[User:Billdauterive]] ([[Special:Contributions/Billdauterive|contribs]]) keeps reverting the [[Goblin]] article to call them "pedophiles". Could you block his account or ban him, at least temporarily? After five edits it's just annoying. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:35, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:I have reported it on [[SpamReport]] also, mirroring the old page on the old Wiki. If something like this happen again, should I come here to report it instead? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm watching both pages but I'd say [[SpamReport]] is better. I've warned the guy, I'll block him if he does it again. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:32, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Just to make sure that you were aware of it, please take knowledge of this matter posted on the main DF forum: [[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001513]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 21:17, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:Seems to have been taken care of... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:23, 25 February 2008 (EST)
::Yes, the day after this was posted. :) --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:50, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Please see [[spamReport]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:50, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== SVG ==

I can't upload SVG images. Is this deliberate, or an oversight? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:44, 5 February 2008 (EST) 
I don't actually have any SVG images to upload, but I expect that some diagrams will be SVG if possible.

:I'll look into this but I think it's disabled by default. I'd need to install a plugin to have full SVG support. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:22, 7 February 2008 (EST)

== Wiki logo in upper-left corner ==

I just noticed that it is a resize, and shows, so I put together another version tile-by-tile with the tiles 5x8 (which isn't quite the 8x12 ratio; it is compressed horizontally by 6.25%). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:05, 5 February 2008 (EST) 
[[Image:WikiLogo_4fa619.png]]

:Thanks, I've replaced the old logo. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:20, 7 February 2008 (EST)

== Odd. ==

[http://imgplace.com/image/view/50645bd2d36fb631cef55c91c6b4f016 This] shouldn't be happening. 
Not the strange colors - that's GIF. The left-hand menu is placed far below where it should be. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:45, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:Here too, and it is really annoying --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 16:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

::Should be fine now, do a full refresh. Let me know if other problems remain. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

== Blank pages ==

During about midnight (CDT) last night the main page was loading as a blank page. I did some experimenting during that time and any page with the #expr parser function failed to load. This is very strange. Possibly a bug in the ParserFunctions extension. I tested it using <nowiki>{{#expr: 1 + 1}}</nowiki> which normally evaluates just fine to {{#expr: 1 + 1}}. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:40, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've done some tests right now and it seems to work fine. Are you still experiencing that? It could have been an issue with my host. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was a temporary problem. I'll keep an eye out to see if it happens again. If it's not a regular issue, we can probably ignore it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:17, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
::(If it recurs, it will be really easy to notice because the main page won't show up) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:19, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I noticed the main page being blank at that time as well. The odd thing was that other pages besides the main page were still accessible at my end.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 11:57, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== Odd... not really a problem, but odd. ==

We have thirteen hundred registered users and one sysop. It hasn't been a problem (we only need a sysop for page deletion and spammer blocking), but I find it odd. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:48, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
: What are you suggesting? I don't mind delegating powers. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:31, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

== Italian not-quite-wiki ==

It seems someone is trying to add an italian wiki [[Dwarf_Fortress_Italia|INSIDE]] of the english wiki. Things could get very strange. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Personally, I don't mind it if they stick to 1-2 pages. I'll contact the author. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Common.js ==

Contains a code section called "Internet Explorer bug fix"; this is somehow being called on Firefox, causing it to fail (and halt execution of the rest of the javascript stuff) because the function attachEvent does not exist. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:06, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

On Wikipedia, the same code section is surrounded in
<pre>if (navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer")
{
...
}</pre> This is missing in the version here. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:This should be fixed now. Let me know if you still have the problem. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:51, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== Wiki modification requested (PSA) ==

Since GreyMaria can't be bothered to take good advice, please give some attention to the recent addition to the main page, and the [[Talk:Main_Page#PSA|discussion]] that has occurred *after* the change was made, (no discussion was initiated beforehand, and G.M. even added another pet peeve to the list after being told it was inappropriate.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:55, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well excuuuse me for not noticing the discussion. My opinion on the matter still stands (though this is the first time it's mentioned): it's got to be posted SOMEWHERE where everyone will read it. Since I don't have the required permissions to modify certain pages (like the edit page) the only place that was possible was the Main Page. Though it may have been dumb to just stick it there without a second thought or consensus. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:01, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== Requested version update ==

I'm requesting a version update for mediawiki so that I can use <nowiki>{{PAGESINCATEGORY}}</nowiki> for the version category pages to automatically include themselves in [[:category:version]] only if they are not empty. This would allow the category to automatically just display things that need to be worked on. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:56, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Also, it seems there is an error in the current version of PaserFunctions. The mod operation for #expr is returning negative values for certain inputs. This is interfering with the (not very) random number system that chooses quotes for the front page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:32, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I'll try to eventually update. But it was a chore last time I did it so I'm usually lazy when it comes to do it. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:52, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Requested delete ==
I'd like to request deletes for the Gwalk#.jpg images I uploaded a few days ago. They're a lot more unworkable than I had initially expected, so I need to go back and do them over in .gif format and mess with some resizing and other crap. Since I'm going to do them in .gif I can't just overwrite them, so please delete them. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:46, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Done! --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:03, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Remove main page heading ==

Adding:

body.page-Main_Page h1.firstHeading { display: none !important; }

to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] will supposedly remove the "Main Page" heading from [[Main Page]], which would leave us with just "The Dwarf Fortress Wiki". Would you be willing to try it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:40, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:And it works! --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:19, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Woot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:48, 8 December 2008 (EST)

== Something off on this page ==

Hello, [[Design Strategies]] does not seem to appear for me, instead I get: Fatal error: Maximum function nesting level of '100' reached, aborting! in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/parser/Preprocessor_DOM.php on line 831. It appears in both FF and IE.[[User:Yuravian|Yuravian]] 22:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

:Hi, yes I know about those. I've been having some issues since the last upgrade and DB corruptions and space problems... I'm looking into all this. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:Ok, the error seems to come from the ParserFunctions extensions that is quite heavily used in that page. I'll try installing the newest version of the extension but if that doesn't work, that page will have to be reworked to fix it. I mean, goddamn, that's a huge page and I'm sure it could be split. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:52, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Extension request ==

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and would allow a really slim diagram creation template. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order or preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purposes just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]