Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Technical tricks

2009-05-15T00:09:54Z

Mithra: signed

== Relevant News ==

A few new init settings are on the way according to the Dev Log.
It would be nice if the whole of this article could get an overhaul and verification to get it out of the outdated pages.--[[User:N9103|N9103]] 21:21, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Economy toggle ==
Can the dwarven economy be started in the present version? There are strings in the binary that make me think so, but I haven't been able to activate it. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 20:19, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:No, I don't believe so. I've read that Toady made a few errors with the economy system, and has it disabled in the current version until he gets it fixed. [[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 8:55, 15 November 2007
:As of the .33b release, the economy can start. Note that the conditions are currently unknown; minting coins is no longer the trigger, or is only one of the triggers. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:48, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Staying Inside? ==

When I was hiding my fledgling fortress from a small ogre warband on the surface, I hunkered down behind my fortifications, set my orders to "dwarves stay inside", and carried on with my development. My FPS was almost entirely at my cap, 100fps. When I turned it off, it almost immediately dropped to 60-70 fps. Has anybody else had this happen to them, and should it be posted on this page?

:Sounds like "Dwarves Stay Inside" was complicating pathing. I think that's a lot more common in this version, the Z-axis complicates pathing greatly over the 2d version and the addition of traffic zones does the same thing. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 08:57, 15 November 2007 (EST)--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 04:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

::Don't you mean that it was uncomplicated the pathing? To me it reads as though he gets 100fps with dwarves stay inside set. This makes sense from a programming point of view and assuming that when routes are calculated the fact outside is allowed significantly increases the breathed of the search space. However either my understanding of exactly how much path finding is done is wrong or there is a flaw in Toady's code because pathing in this game adds way too much load on the system. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 10:59, 15 November 2007 (EST)

:::There are numerous bugs associated with the dwarves stay inside command, Toady mentioned several fixes coming on that issue. It seems they don't drop any outside goals when ordered inside, so they go just inside, stand right at the exit, and do nothing as they try to pathfind a way outside, sounds FPS expensive. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 12:06, 15 November 2007 (EST)

== Artifacts == moods? ==

Might be worth mentioning in the article whether ARTIFACTS:NO will definitely also stop moods, or whether moods will still occur, but without resulting in artifacts. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:14, 8 December 2007 (EST)
:Uh... making artifacts is the entire point of moods, so yeah. I personally don't play with artifacts turned on, too annoying. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 17:18, 8 December 2007 (EST)

== Engravings ==

I thought I read somewhere on the wiki that there is an option you can set so that you receive verbose descriptions of your engravings while in Fortress Mode. Is this possible? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:03, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:In the init file, set [SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE] to YES. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 21:13, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

==Nickname==
Please explain why nickname redirects here. I don't understand. Thanks.--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 04:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:Probably because of the "# [NICKNAME_DWARF:CENTRALIZE]..." section, have no experience with the nickname function myself, but it's probably mentioned in a few of the tutorials. --[[User:Doodle|Doodle]] 00:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::You are probably right. Until I feel like expanding the nickname page, I guess this is just as good as anything. Thanks.--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 04:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:::He is right. I made that redirect just recently - this is the only page that comes close to addressing "nicknames". I just updated the redirect to go to that specific sub-section. Don't think it's in any tutorial, at least not that uses the word "nickname". The [[controls guide]] and Indecive's guide both mention it in passing, but no real info or help.

:::I wouldn't create a nickname article - not enough info to worry about, you'd only be creating a stub. Expand the throw-away line in the Controls Guide - that's where I'd expect to find it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I'll think about it. For now, it's fine.--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 00:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Technical tricks

2009-05-15T00:09:23Z

Mithra:

40d Talk:Technical tricks

2009-05-14T04:31:35Z

Mithra:

40d Talk:Ambusher

2009-05-06T04:29:16Z

Mithra: /* Equipment */

== Unconscious spotters? ==

The article states that you can be seen by an unconscious creature when standing next to it, yet I always get back into sneak mode as soon as I get an enemy unconscious, and it always has worked, as did passing right next to an unconscious creature. Never got a chance to gouge out eyes in the new version, but in the old DF, I could start sneaking very close to a cyclops, about three tiles, maybe two, which is more than close enough for him to normally see you and prevent you from sneaking. I'd like someone to confirm this, but I'm fairly certain the part about unconscious creatures is false. --[[User:Ryke Masters|Ryke Masters]] 20:45, 2 December 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that statement is false. I'll remove it in a day unless anyone thinks it true. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:55, 3 December 2007 (EST)

The "hunting" skill link redirects to this page, which is kind of useless. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:49, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: Well, there is no hunting skill, and hunters all use Ambushing. I figure there ought to be some sort of "activity" page that describes how to hunt, equipment, products, risks, etc - where should that be, though? Not here, although there should probably be a link from here to it. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 14:23, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== ` ==

Well, my hunters keep catching things then my butcher won't do anything with it.

if I am chasing a "foo" what is the sequence to follow to get from:
1 hunter
1 foo
1 Butcher's shop
1 butcher
1 kitchen

to "food"?
TIA
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:06, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Provided the hunter is bringing the corpses back to camp (does one need a refuse pile for this? I forget), then the butcher should automatically butcher it, turning it into meat, bones, a skin, a skull, fat, and "chunks", which are inedible. Fat can be rendered into [[tallow]] in the kitchen, which can then be cooked into a meal. (Mmm, horse tallow roast.) Meat can be eaten raw, so you don't need to cook it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:46, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::From what I have noticed they will bring the kill straight to the butchers shop but if they drop it to drink or whatnot you can {{k|p}} lace a {{k|r}}efuse pile under the corpse and the butcher will go out and get it. Or you could chain pile it to a refuse pile right next to your butcher shop if you have extra hands about. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:54, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Lack of prey ==

is there something I can do to get more work for my hunters? I have started drafting them all to the millitary becuase they already have armour and a bow when they turn up! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:30, 30 January 2008 (EST)

:Well, if you have few/no spawning animals on your map, then making them marksdwarves is by far the best option, as the only alternative really, is training them in a new profession. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:05, 30 January 2008 (EST)

== go get him ==
Nothing more fun than watching your unarmed hunter chase and wrestle a groundhog to death *laugh*. *note to self: when making a hunter always check for weapon preference* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:00, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I'm seeing the same thing. Although, in my case, all three of my hunters were set up with crossbows and quivers. Initially, they ran out of bolts. No worries except that now, although their weapon choice is set to crossbow, they won't pick one up. I've tried changing their jobs, changing their military status, and none of it makes a difference as best I can tell. Now, they don't even pick up the crossbow or quiver, let alone ammo.
:And, in my case, it's beating up Elks and Muskoxes... tough dwarves. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:09, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
:Personally, I liked seeing my hammer-equiped hunter whacking horses and other large animals so hard they go flying through the air :) [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]]

== Exhausted animal supply ==
Through my use of several hunters on round-the-clock 'killing everything in sight' duty It appears that no more animals spawn on my map. I really wish I could hunt some gorilla for a more balanced dwarf diet aside from dogmeat. --[[User:Jemulov|Jemulov]] 13:41, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== How many bolts? ==

On this page it says that immigrating hunters arrive with a stack of 30 steel bolts. However, I've got a stack of 34 lying right here, which means they bring more, though I think the stack is partly used.

It's been a while since I've had a hunter or marksdwarf arrive; can anyone check how large a stack they each bring (and is it the same for both)?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:28, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:Okay, 36 for a hunter. Might be more for a marksdwarf.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:46, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:38 for another hunter. So I'll call it 30 to 40, pending further information.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== Hunting Labor and sleeping prefs ==

I was lucky enough to land a fortress with absolutely no huntable animals, as a result I took the opportunity to give my dwarves all leather armor and enable hunting for them, this turned out rather splendidly for the next siege, but as a long term plan, seems to run into the issue that when hunting is enabled dwarves seem to have nothing against sleeping wherever they wish, causing negative thoughts... this isn't specifically tied to the Ambusher skill, it is a side effect of the hunting labor, so I'm wondering if anyone would care to bring in Hunting as its own category, or if someone simply wanted to append that information to the Ambusher article.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:40, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

== Equipment ==

I'm confused, I know if you start a fortress with an ambusher as one of your dwarves, he gets a crossbow, some bolts, and leather armor. But what happens if you assign some random dwarf to it? Will he pick up a crossbow and leather armor? I just want to know if I'm wasting my time making him equipment he might not use --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Alright I just checked, they will use whatever weapon/armor you set in the military menu. Gonna add that to the main page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
: Verified --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 04:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Ambusher

2009-05-06T04:28:13Z

Mithra: Removed verify tag

{{Skill
| color = rgb(0,128,0)
| skill = Ambusher
| speciality = [[Hunter]]
| profession = [[Ranger]]
| job name = Hunting
| tasks =
* Hunt
}}
[[Dwarves]] with the hunting [[labor]] enabled automatically use the '''ambusher''' skill while hunting outside of the fortress, which allows them to sneak up on their prey. Dwarves using the ambush skill move [[speed|slower]], but cannot be seen by enemies.

As an ambusher gets closer to his prey, there is a greater and greater chance he or she will be spotted and stop ambushing. Higher skill allows dwarves to get closer before being spotted, and also increases the speed at which a dwarf can move while sneaking.

In [[adventurer mode]], ambusher skill is gained by moving around while {{key|S}}neaking. This will greatly reduce your [[speed]] just as it does in dwarf mode, but will cause hostile [[creatures]] not to attack you. Until you un{{key|S}}neak or someone spots you, you will gain a small amount of [[experience]] in ambushing with every step. Presently, smashing a creature's skull in with your bare hands does not count as being spotted, so the best way to tell if you're still sneaking is to check your speed in the bottom right of the screen. Ambusher also helps prevent encounters from enemies while traveling on the world map.

== Hunting ==

A hunter picks a mark which he pursues. Upon killing the mark, a hunter will carry it home to the [[butcher's shop]]. A hunter may kill other [[creatures]] that are closer to them than the fleeing mark he is intent on catching. This happens frequently with [[crossbow]]s due to their range. They will ignore the accidental carcass and only bring home a carcass they have marked beforehand. This means that sometimes multiple dead critters per hunt will be lying about and start rotting around the map if you do not set the refuse orders to 'gather refuse from outside' ([[corpse]]s count as refuse). If you do this and have a good system of [[stockpile]]s, available dwarf haulers and a map free of menacing critters (the hunters should accomplish this just fine), then you should have the outside of your fort just as tidy as the inside, and will be able to salvage the corpses.

The same caution is advised to the slaughtering process. Hunters will drop carcasses directly into the butchery, which will make it cluttered very fast. Animals upon being butchered explode into [[chunk]]s, [[meat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, [[fat]] and [[skull]], and the clutter will make the [[butcher]] work many times slower. Stockpiles and haulers are required, or your animal corpses will rot even while in the butchery and you will lose the skin, the meat and the fat ([[food]]). Bones and skulls can be salvaged even from rotting corpses.

If you don't have a good stocking and hauling system, you will not get more than half of the kill, and the [[craftsdwarf]] unfortunate enough to need the bones from the rotted critters will have to go out alone several times to get them every time which places a huge strain on production speed and safety.

You can assign [[hunting dog]]s to [[hunter]]s, as they will sneak just as the hunter. [[War dog]]s die more often for hunters even if they are stronger, since the dogs outrun the sneaking hunter and thus the hunter never gets the first shot and sometimes never even has time to arrive at the combat before the dog is either dead or wounded.

Dwarves can hunt with any [[weapon]], or even unarmed, but a [[crossbow]] is the most sensible choice, due to its range. They will use whatever weapon/armor is assigned to them. (See [[Military]])

You should consider training hunters with [[hammer]]s and in wrestling in order for them to defend themselves. This is because hunters will fight to the death even if they run out of [[bolt]]s. Without bolts, he must fight with the butt of the crossbow which is counted as a weak [[hammer]]. Wrestling is his last resort if the hunter drops his crossbow in the fight. Wrestling will help him to break the jaw-grips that the enemy critter places on him, and will help the dwarf wrestle on his own and even place his own jaw grips if both of his hands are incapacitated.

== Free equipment ==

Any dwarf given ambusher skill at Novice level or better before embarking will get a free set of leather armor (leather armor, leather leggings, leather low or high boots, and leather helm or steel cap); a crossbow (made of copper, bronze, bismuth bronze, iron, or steel); and a quiver with 30-40 steel bolts. All of these items will be of ordinary [[quality]].

This equipment will only be given if ambusher is the dwarf's highest skill; a Proficient Ambusher/Proficient Cook will have [[farmer]] as a profession, and will not receive any equipment. However, ambushers with other [[ranger]] skills, even ones higher than their ambusher skill, will still receive this equipment, as will ambushers with [[military]] skills at any level. (Separately, military skills will not influence what equipment is given: speardwarves will arrive at the site carrying nothing, and speardwarf/ambushers will arrive with the crossbow given to all ambushers. [[Armor user]] and [[shield user]] have no effect either.)

Any [[immigration|immigrating]] rangers with ambusher skill will also receive this equipment.

== Crossbows ==
A hunter armed with a [[crossbow]] will increase both his [[marksdwarf]] and ambusher [[skill]]s.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Technical tricks

2009-05-06T04:18:17Z

Mithra: Nickname redirect?

40d:Domestic animal

2009-04-30T22:33:27Z

Mithra: Fixed Raws internal link

''(If you're looking for domestic skills, see [[skill]]s)''

Domestic [[animal]]s are creatures that can be used by dwarfs one way or another without taming or training, usually for security or food. Technically, they have the [domestic] tag in the [[Raws]]. They can be bought at [[embark]], or [[trade]]d for with [[caravan]]s. Wild versions of domesticated animals (horses, muskoxen, etc) can be [[tame]]d, as can almost any wild animal.

Every fortress expedition starts with two free domestic draft animals which pulled their wagon to the fortress site. Fortresses have no use for a wagon after, except to break it up for wood, so these two animals can be slaughtered or kept for breeding.

While any animals of the same species bought at embark always alternate male/female/male/female (in that order), the two free wagon animals are not guaranteed to do so.

Domestic animals include:

:* [[cat]]s
:* [[dog]]s
:* [[horse]]s
:* [[cow]]s
:* [[muskox]]en
:* [[donkey]]s
:* [[mule]]s

40d:Children

2009-04-30T17:24:49Z

Mithra: Added that birth won't wake a sleeping mother. Saw it myself.

__NOTOC__
[[Dwarves]] are considered '''children''' for their first twelve years. They learn how to become a [[dwarf]] through living in and participating in dwarven society with no formal schools, apprenticeships or other formal learning; even parenting seems quite minimal.

In fortress mode, some migrant dwarves are married and may bring children. Children who immigrate to your fortress might be any age from 2 to 12, and there is no way to determine the age of a child.

"Resident" dwarves may also give birth to children. This can be stopped or reduced by editing the init file. Dwarves even can have miscarriages, which causes an unhappy thought for the mother but not for the father.

Some fortresses seem to have a higher fertility rate than others.

==Babies==

When children are born, they are looked after by their parents, who will continue working, leaving the baby in the [[workshop]] if they go to get materials. It is thought that babies sharing a tile with their parents always lie down, not the parent. Babies do not have to be born in [[bed]]s, but are born wherever the mother happens to be; the birth will interrupt the mother's current action. If the mother is sleeping, however, the birth will not wake her. If the mother dies the baby will almost always head to the nearest ledge and throw itself off of it, they will continue to do this until they either die or they grow to be a child. Orphans are never adopted by other dwarves.

==Labor==
Children may not be assigned any labors, but perform some activities without any intervention:

* socialising, through arranging [[party|parties]] in [[meeting hall]]s;
* [[harvest|harvesting]] [[crops]], if the 'All dwarves harvest' order is on;
* removing [[construction]]s (such as [[wall]]s, [[floor]]s, [[ramp]]s);
* pulling [[lever]]s;
* filling designated ponds;
* [[hauling]] items to the [[trade depot]];
* eating, drinking, and sleeping as necessary.

Children may not be assigned to the [[noble|nobility]], although babies seem to be able to.

==Diet==
Children seem to eat and drink with similar preferences to adult dwarves, including a preference for [[alcohol]] over plain [[water]].

==Kidnapping==
Children are also the target of [[goblin|goblin snatchers]], who will sneak into your fortress and try to kidnap young dwarves by stuffing one in a sack and hightailing it out of there. Like stolen objects, children who are removed from the map are lost forever, for now. [[Toady]] has hinted that slaves can be freed in future version.

==Moods==
[[Strange mood]]s affect children in the same way as adults. [[Experience]] gained through a strange mood will lead to the dwarf having legendary skill in either [[woodcrafting]], [[bone carving]] or [[stonecrafting]], depending on the artifact made.

==Adulthood==
At the age of twelve, children become adult [[dwarf|dwarves]]. While most then become unskilled peasants, those who have successfully completed a strange mood other than possession will become legendary [[craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]]; those who help in harvesting plants throughout childhood may have built up sufficient experience points in the [[grower]] skill to become [[Planter]]s.

==Dwarven parenthood==

As an oversight in programming, children's parents can become so preoccupied with finding their children that they can die of thirst. This is aimed to be fixed at a later update.

==Military Children==

Although possibly not a bug, children with military mothers will be carried joyfully into battle and usually slaughtered wholesale. Deactivating the mother's military commission may be the best idea to keep the children alive and the parents from throwing [[tantrum]]s when a stray [[bolt]] hits the child. However, If the dwarven parent in question can be kept happy, Dwarven babies make ''excellent'' combat armour.
''
[[Category:Dwarves]]

User talk:N9103

2009-04-24T15:36:24Z

Mithra: /* Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here */

__NOTOC__

== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==
"Pointless, unconstructive, and generally humorless. practically vandalism."

In the interests of clarity and cohesion--two values of which I can now assume you praise to at least some degree--it is with regret that I find myself compelled to inform you that your observations, as quoted above, aren't strictly true: The point was to entertain and if I am to take your position seriously I now expect you to strip the Wiki of any similar content. It is not constructive, but neither is a blank page. A homogeneous collection can realistically find no derision of a generality, and "vandalism" is certainly not the word I would select to describe the modifications I made--may I suggest you consider the alternatives?

I anticipate your response on this issue and implore you to consider my stance; that until a better, more informative description is created a little lightheartedness is superior to a lack of anything at all. You are, let us not forget, vandalizing my purely altruistic efforts with your pragmatic attitude and unenlightening blank spaces. ~ [[User:Rep|Rep]]

: Well, if I can give my advice, not ''everyting'' is better than a blank page. I mean, instead of your rather unexplainable sentences, you could have made a little bit of description on the stone (something like "This is a brown stone, found in igenous extrusive layer, it may contain hematite, rock crystal etc etc"). Il will be more constructive than a blank page, and more than your previous modifications, which were effectively useless and practically humorless, altough the intent was nice. Not that this wiki shouldn't have humor (it already has), but it should had least be humoristic and understandable by everyone :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:14, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

:: Your opinion has been duly noted, your example scrutinized without any impressions of inadvertent condescension and your position appears clear, so thank you. I suspect, also, from your efforts, you appear to be a prime candidate for what the blank stone pages really require--may I suggest you consider applying your insight to them at some point in the future? It would be somewhat unbecoming for you to now leave them blank. ~ [[User:Rep|Rep]]

: Timst seems to grasp my position on the matter pretty well, and I'll only add this: I did leave at least one of your additions untouched, because the humor was done in a dwarfy way. Even bad humor, in a dwarven mindset, is acceptable to me.. but yes, I'd prefer no description, to a bad attempt at humor that doesn't even fit the background of the wiki as a whole. I said they were ''practically'' vandalism, meaning that while they weren't, the rest of my statements about them applied; The same statements are usually applied to judge what could be considered vandalism. I do appreciate you coming here, rather than starting an edit war, and if I could have put a couple hundred more characters in my undo descriptions, I'd have given more explained reasons, but such is the way it is. Hopefully this won't rub you too badly, and I apologize if any undue grief has been had. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

: Nice simplification on the containers page. Thanks. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 15:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Problems/mistakes/corrections ==
Forgive me for the occasional slip up. Just make a note here of where I managed to screw up, so that I may endeavor to learn from my mistakes.

40d Talk:Dungeon master

2009-04-24T15:24:22Z

Mithra: /* There IS a way of adjusting jobs? */

Anyone know what triggers the dungeon master now? I have absolutely NO coins whatsoever and he just showed up at the start of my 4th spring. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 11:54, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a point to the image? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:38, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I think it's there to show what skills the Dungeon Master starts with. Putting the same in plain text would work better, methinks. --[[User:Zirik|Zirik]] 03:08, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::My oppinion also. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:45, 10 November 2007 (EST)

He showed up here in summer 1055 with the 'normal'/standard skill level in those four skills mentioned in the article (Animal Trainer, Animal Caretaker, Furnace Operator, Metal Crafter). I've got no coins either. Created wealth was around 70k, around 60-70 dwarves. Maybe it's the number of pets? I have 123.--[[User:SL|SL]] 00:43, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:Probably not. I got him in 1054 with no more than 25 animals, and had passed 70k wealth long ago so that wasn't it either. Number of dwarves? 1054 would have been the first year after I hit 50 dwarves, which might be the case with yours as well. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 01:36, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:When I got him, I had 57 dwarves. The requirement is probably 50 dwarves, we all have that number in common. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:19, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I dont think the requirement is 50 dwarves, i have the dungeon master arrive when i was nearing the 80 Mark, and had a wealth of around 200k. --[[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 20:48, 15 November 2007 (EST)
::Were you nearing the 80 mark BEFORE or AFTER the migration when he showed up? A requirement of 50 dwarves to trigger him would mean you would probably have 70+ dwarves by the time he actually arrives, since he generally shows up at the same time as 20 other immigrants.
:::It was before the migration ofcourse, ill try it again when i have time [[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 14:44, 17 November 2007 (EST)
:My numbers were 68 dwarves (I went from 36 to 60+ in the last wave), roughly 2.7M in wealth (and I'd been over 1M for years) in year 1056 with a moderate number of pets and no coins. I'd also dug to the deepest level the first year, in case folks were considering that as a criterion. I have fought numerous slugmen, goblins and kobolds, but nothing exotic (I had to reload after the dragon arrived and burned everything down). Bear in mind that if there's a pop requirement, then it's important how many you have before the DM arrives, but it's equally important how many you had before the ''previous'' wave. Those numbers form the bounds. So if you had 80 before the DM arrived, but 31 of them arrived or were born in that last wave, then this will have been the first time the caravan saw you with 50+ pop. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:56, 20 November 2007 (EST)

I think his arrival might be related to your stored animals. He seems to arrive for me whenever I get my first goblin in a cage trap. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:04, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:I just had this happen again. My pop. went from 57 to 80 or so and it was the first wave after I had captured a dragon and some goblins. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:22, 24 December 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that he does NOT arrive simply at 50 dwarves. Just got an immigration wave that raised my pop from 52 to 60, and no DM.
--[[User:Tyrving|Tyrving]] 02:56, 22 December 2007 (EST)

How about using skill names that are shown in the game? For example armor crafting -> Armorsmith , weapon smithing -> Weaponsmith and so on. Its a bit confusing now with blacksmithing and all.

Have you considered that the DM has /a percentage based chance of arriving once you fortress reaches the population of 50?/ --[[User:Hamenopi|Hamenopi]] 07:13, 17 January 2008 (EST)

I had about 53 dwarves then an immigration wave took me up to 62 but it wasnt until the next wave which gave me 81 that I got him also in requirements says you need to discover hidden site feature, but i havent discovered anything yet. Imported wealth is 128245 Exported is 682 Created wealth is 429483 and on the off chance his arrival is related to animal numbers i have 5 trained and 21 others [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:26, 19 January 2008 (EST) - I hadnt caught anything in a trap but i had nicked a cougar from the elves. Also I'd smithed a massive amount of gold and copper as well as some silver reckon it might be related to that? [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:49, 19 January 2008 (EST)

I snagged the DM right as my population hit 80. I have >700K wealth (got lucky with artifacts), and hardly any jobs (as Economy requires), so I would imagine it's either a population thing, or a mix of things including population.

Here's a bit of fun to smash pretty much all the speculation so far... I've had over or around 100 dwarves for the past year or two (at 142, now), I've captured goblins, I've captured and trained vermin, I've trained war dogs, I have no coins (though we seem to know that isn't a requirement), and I have
over a million in fortress wealth. Also, nearly half a million in imported wealth. I'm fairly certain none of the previously discussed conditions are the requirement. I'm wondering if it really is 'dungeon feature' related. The only thing I haven't had is greater beasts (unless a single Titan counts).—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

:A titan certainly would count, but that's not the 'map feature' that's required. Do you have magma, chasm, cave water, pits and/or a cave? Those might be what's the trigger, if you don't have any of those, then perhaps one (or more than one) is the trigger? I've gotten a DM without any invasions or sieges and an equally impressive amount of wealth in and out (turned off invasions cause I was tired of getting attacked while I was moving from my initial dig-in to an ideal spot). Mine came before 50 (a kid being born took me to 51,) and he came with the last migration before the birth. My site has magma, a brook, and pits. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:42, 27 January 2008 (EST)

::I have none of those, that I've found, so it might be one of those. I'm wishing I'd known about how to identify magma on the embark screen prior to doing this, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pits or magma, or maybe just any feature that has monsters. [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 05:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:::Don't feel too bad, as you could consider it cheating to know what you're going to get... Us 'cheaters' will quickly call it time-saving or whatnot instead ;) Check out Regional Prospector if you haven't, and don't mind crossing that grey line. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Hm, the DM just arrived after 68 Dwarves, 380k Wealth and no map feature whatsoever. [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 17:40, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:So you're in an area that you've revealed, and has nothing previously mentioned? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:19, 29 January 2008 (EST)

DM just arrived at 66 dwarfs, can't think of any map feature i have/discovered (no magma, chasm, cave, cave water, pit - however, i do have an ordinary river). I traded with the elves for a tiger, elk, camel and crocodile just before, but i already had other animals like leopard and saltwater crocodile. I have lots of animals (79), lots of war dogs (65). wealth 1818000. export 40700. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:20, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

hmm... my dungeon master is wearing a hood, cloak, mittens and nothing else xD [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 16:49, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

In my experience, DM arrives around the fifty to sixty dwarf mark, usually in the second year. I rarely have wealth over about 100k by this time. However, I generally have a lot of cages and traps about. Maybe that's what it is?--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:11, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Mine arrived in mid spring of my third year when I had about 78 dwarves (that wave of immigration bumped it up to 95), I had a wealth over 920k, and I had a visible magma vent since I arrived. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 19:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:84 Dwarfs, 2.6 million wealth, struck adamantine a year ago, no Dungeon Master. Which "site features" trigger the DM? Edit: Dungeon Master arrives, no further discoveries, 87 Dwarfs, 5.6 million wealth. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:54, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

== Cloak obsession ==

Should there be something about the DM's taste in clothes? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:07, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:My current DM is sporting no less then 8 cloaks in various states of disrepair. There might be something to this. Anyone else confirm? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:12, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

:Correction: 10 cloaks, and on his way to get another. Also, disturbingly the only other clothes he has are mittens, shoes, and a hood. What the hell. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:14, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

:My DM arrived with a cloak, a hood, and two mittens. He immediately stole a used sock from someone's cabinet. Pretty bold for someone that spends all their time smelting steel. Nope, check that, he has two cloaks, and still no real clothes. Are all DM's male? I can't think of a single DM in all my forts that was female. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 09:53, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
::My DM is female, has 2 cloaks, a hood, a pair of mittens, 3 socks, and one shoe. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:27, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:::try making some underwear? perhaps he's trying to stay warm... in fashion.
::Well, you see, being a Dungeon Master involves a certain sort of gear... be thankful that the Toady One hasn't implemented gimp masks yet (although now I'm flashing back to seeing clips of the Jerry Springer show with their "sex therapist" Thor, the dominatrix dwarf...). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:07, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Would a leather mask with menacing spikes (possibly also of leather) and studded with metal really be any different? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:55, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
::::I've had one who wandered around with nothing but 12 cloaks and a pair of shoes, despite abundant other clothes available. Current game he arrived with mittens, a hood, and a cloak. I haven't made any clothes yet... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:15, 12 December 2008 (EST)

== Dead Dungeon master ==

My Dungeon master showed up, wandered into a river, and drowned. Is there a chance another is coming?

Yes you will. When mine died I used Dwarf Companion to revive him. The next migrant wave, there is a second one. So right now I've got two Dungeon Masters.

== Likes ==
Does every Dungeon Master like Copper, Silver, Electrum, Gold, and Platinum? As a long-time Dungeons and Dragons player, that list looks like a shout-out to AD&D. --[[User:Dornbeast|Dornbeast]] 01:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== There IS a way of adjusting jobs? ==

Just use the DwarfManager program that comes with the game.
So shouldn't the 'no way of adjusting a noble's jobs' bit be removed/changed? Don't know how to myself otherwise I would've already.

:Dwarf Manager doesn't come with the game. It's a third-party program. As such, I don't think this section should be changed because there is no in-game way to change noble jobs. And please sign your additions to talk pages, it makes it easier to follow. Thanks. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 15:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Glass

2009-04-22T20:49:58Z

Mithra:

==Quantities Required==
Do some items require more sand than others? Or can you really make furniture from one bag each? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 17:33, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

:From my glass-tower fort days, I'm inclined to say 'yes'. Every glass item, from a gem to a floodgate, only requires one bag of sand. I certainly don't remember having any problems with running out of sand, once I started using the manager screen to order an equal amount of sand collection before each glass item order. Probably a good idea to test in the latest version though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 03:40, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just tested in 0.28.181.39c: A raw green glass (gem) and a green glass floodgate both used a single bag of sand (plus a unit of fuel). --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 05:35, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

==Glass Traps==
With v 33b, I have successfully made trap components without difficulty, so I've deleted the reference to bars being required. This raises the issue, however, of what damage rating the various sorts of glass get. As far as I can tell, glass doesn't appear in the mat glosses, so I'm not sure how to determine what the actual value is. Anyone have a suggestion? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:46, 22 November 2007 (EST)
:I can't answer your question of getting the data from the files, but apparently someone has confirmed glass as having 50% damage, so I removed your verify tag and pointed to my source. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 04:31, 22 November 2007 (EST)

==Products==
:"Raw glass is essentially a low-value gem, a frequent request of dwarves undergoing a strange mood. Given its abundance, raw green glass makes an excellent training material for practicing the gem cutting skill."
::In 33g, I'm having trouble making raw glass show up for cutting in the Jeweler's Workshop. GreyMario on #bay12games @ WorldIRC.net suggests that raw glass is not able to be cut to train the gem cutting skill. If it is possible to cut raw glass, is there something special that needs to be done, or some reason why it wouldn't show up in the screen? If it isn't possible, the above line needs to be removed from Products. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:19, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:::I believe there currently is a bug where raw and cut clear and crystal glass does not shop up on the jeweler's workshop screen. You can get around it with the manager. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 00:30, 26 February 2008 (EST)
::::Confirmed (33g). The manager can queue glass cutting jobs, which are then processed normally. I will make a note of this in the article. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:37, 26 February 2008 (EST)

==The Raw Glass==
:I am having trouble making raw glass i think its some kind of bug but when they go get the sand then they will bring it to the furnace only to stop making it and it will go off my que even if its on repeat, they do how ever use the sand so can my swarfs fail at making raw glass. i have this problem alot with my magma forges and furnaces [[User:Rock n rat|Rock n rat]
::Are you sure they didn't make raw glass and then run out of sand (Check your gem bins)? If you've got Collect Sand and Make Raw Glass both on repeat, when they run out of sand they'll switch to gather sand and when they run out of bags they'll switch to make raw glass. Occasionally they'll cancel one of them, but most of the time they'll just move the active job to the top. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:26, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::And you do have fuel for the furnace, right? Also, other than green glass needs additional materials. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Glass furniture made by a Mason? ==

According to [[gem]], it's possible to use glass (presumably they're talking about raw glass) as a stone for making tables and doors. If this is the case, there's no real point in having a skilled glassmaker, as you could just make raw glass for your highly-skilled masons. Thoughts? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:15, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:It's not like you're going to run out of stone. You can run out of gems, though, so if you want to train a gem cutter/setter, use raw glass. Aside from that, glass is most useful for making the things you can't make out of stone: trap weapons, terrariums, tubes, windows, vials... I think that's it. High-quality glass trap weapons (and terraria) are really quite good. Pity Toady still doesn't let us make glass [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboy demijohns].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:16, 7 December 2008 (EST)

::The only ores with value >3 are the iron ores, native silver, native gold, native platinum, native aluminum, and raw adamantine. It seems unlikely that you'll have enough of those to build all your fortress's furniture, but you might have enough clear glass. So clear glass furniture makes sense for a classy fortress. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:58, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:I don't think raw glass is usable in a mason's workshop (although it has been a long while since I last tried it). To get tables and chairs of glass you need to make them directly at the furnace. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:25, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:Clear glass is a pain to make. Woodcutting, ashery, kiln, glass furnace, plus sand collection and hauling for everything. In fact, it may be the single most complicated material to make in all of DF, short of crystal glass, which adds one more ingredient. Clear glass is fancy, certainly, but best left to challenge builds. And as far as I know, dwarves ignore item [[value]] -- a masterpiece basalt chair is a thing of beauty while a no-quality platinum table is ho-hum. (Item value contributes to overall bedroom value, but expensive ones are off-limits to non-legendary dwarves. Good food and drink is a much easier way to keep dwarves ecstatic.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:55, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Hmmm... You may be right about the quality thing. Looking at the thoughts page, we have one thought following the template "admired {a/own} {quality} {building} lately" and another following the template "admired (own?) very fine/splendid/wonderful/completely sublime/tastefully arranged ___ lately". So my guess is that the first thought depends only on quality, while the second thought depends on value. The second thought might only be for statues. As for clear glass, please do not doubt my mastery of efficient fortress design and operation. :-P [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:58, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:You can't make furniture from raw glass in the way you describe. Masons only use stones made of stone for their tasks (stones made of green glass are invalid, stones made of clear diamond are valid). Raw glass is a rough gem made of glass (rough gems made of granite are invalid). [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== raw glass cannot be cut by Jewelers to make glass gems ==

According to this article, raw glass can be cut by a gem cutter just like other rough gems.
I have produced raw glass. It has been placed in my gem stockpile (just like a rough or cut gem) but it does not appear in the workshop menu to be cut or encrusted. I repeat: raw glass does not appear as an option for cut or encrust. What am I missing here? Is this a bug in 40d? What the heck else is raw glass good for?!--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 02:08, 16 February 2009 (EST)

:As I recall, raw _green_ glass shows up just fine, but clear glass does not for some reason. Use the manager's screen to order clear glass to be cut. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:10, 16 February 2009 (EST)

::Ah, thank you very much! Indeed I have been making ''clear glass'' (I have never tried using the manager screen before either...)--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 08:13, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Glass is Magma-Proof? ==
I have some glass items that have been submerged in magma for an awful long time. Is glass somehow magma proof? Has anyone got molten glass or made glass buildings deconstruct under magma assault? --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 19:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

:The [[magma-safe materials]] page says that glass ''furniture'' won't melt when dumped in magma. It seems like a good thing to add to this article. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

:I have noticed the same thing for dumped iron weapons: They get dumped in magma and they didn't melt. Also, I had a floodgate that wasn't magma safe, but it didn't melt either. Is that a random chance thing or does it take time (it was only exposed for ~1 season)?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

==Limestone?==
Why was a comparison to the value of limestone added? I don't see the reason?--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 20:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

40d:Fire

2009-04-18T19:08:50Z

Mithra: /* Origins */ - Slight re-write for clarity.

A border of exclamation marks (!!) on an item or [[dwarf]] name indicates that it is on '''fire'''.
Items on fire also release smoke and ignite adjacent items. The color of the name of burning dwarves will alternate between yellow and red (it may do so forever after the dwarf died).

This had problems in the old version, in that the burning items set other nearby items on fire. A good example:

#Dwarf gets hit by fireball from [[fire imp]] at the [[magma forge]]
#Dwarf runs around his business, as he takes burning damage he goes for a rest, and heads for the [[barracks]]
#The dwarf dies on the way. Someone comes and picks up his !![[giant cave spider]] [[silk]] [[shoe]]!! and puts it on. His clothing catches on fire
#This dwarf also feels hurt and heads for the barracks, but this one gets on the [[wood]]en [[bed]], lighting that up.
#Nearby beds light up; dwarves sleep on that [[bed]] and the others near it and get lit up themselves, as well as the dwarves going for the !![[cave spider]] [[silk]] [[robe]]!!
#Some of these dwarves go past the [[alcohol]] stores for a drink, these light up. now a fair portion of the fortress is on fire.
#Remaining dwarves will have other barracks to sleep in, and some of them have rooms. they go back and set more of their stuff on fire
#Three months later: everything is burning and all your dwarves are dead because none of them fell in the [[river]](Which in the old version wouldn't actually put your dwarves out).
#Wasn't that [[fun]]?

==Forest fires==

===Origins===
Creatures such as [[Fire imp]]s can cause a forest fire by igniting a creature with a fire attack. If grass also ignites, the fire will slowly spread to all connected grass, generating smoke as it burns. Fire turns [[grass]] into ashes, but not usable [[ash|ashes]]. Anything that is flammable and stands on burning grass (if you loo{{k|k}} at it you will see "A fire") has a chance to catch fire each turn.

===Preventing forest fires===
It is recommended to guard the surroundings of an exterior [[magma]] pool with [[Marksdwarf|Marksdwarves]] so that creatures don't have a chance to light anything up (except the Marksdwarves themselves, but this is unlikely if they are well trained). Having walls or better yet fortifications all around the pools is likely to prevent all possible forest fires. Strangely [[grizzly bear]]s seem to be ineffective against such a threat.

===Protecting from forest fires===
Since dwarves will not pay attention to fires , and dwarves will rush to move their dead friends to the graveyard, you may end up very quickly with heavy casualties if you do not {{k|o}}rder all dwarves to stay {{k|i}}nside. If you have precious items and buildings outside, it is also possible to dig a [[channel]] to stop the fire from spreading any more (they are cheaper then walls, offer the same protection and, most importantly, a much faster to create).

Know however that merchants will not pay anymore attention to the fire than your own dwarves, so you may also want to protect them in the same fashion, even if it should change their path, otherwise they could all happily walk into flames when leaving the region (or worse, stand for days on "A fire").

===Irregularities===
Forest fires present certain irregularities that you should take in consideration {{version|0.28.181.40d}}:
*[[Trees]], [[plants]] and other [[map tile]]s will '''not''' be destroyed in the fire. That makes them very easy to spot after a forest fire, and also a possible (if unlikely) natural defense. [[Items]], however, may burn.
*Grassy slopes will not catch on fire, thus preventing the fire from spreading across z-levels.
*Forest fires, no matter how big, will never cross a [[channel]] or a non-wooden [[road]].

Note that actively making use of these irregularities may be considered an [[exploit]].

[[Category:Physics]]

40d:Cougar

2009-04-18T05:53:39Z

Mithra: Language cleanup.

{{CreatureInfo|name=Cougar|symbol=C|color=rgb(255, 255, 0)|skulls=1|chunks=7|meat=7|fat=2|bones=7|skin=1|modvalue=3|biome= * Any [[temperate]] [[forest]]
* Tameable
* Any [[tropical]] forest
* Temperate shrubland
* Tropical shrubland}}
A Cougar is a sizable carnivorous feline creature found in a wide range of biomes. While no match for [[steel]] [[bolt]]s, it can take down a [[war dog]] quite easily, and can be a significant threat to unarmed [[dwarf|Dwarves]] caught outside. When killed and butchered, the resulting [[meat]] and [[leather]] are of better than average value (6☼ and 15☼ respectively).

Lone cougars sometimes ambush players in random encounters in [[Adventure Mode]]. Even for inexperienced characters, these fights are extremely simple.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:COUGAR]
[NAME:cougar:cougars:cougar]
[TILE:'C'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[MODVALUE:3]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[GENPOWER:2]
[PETVALUE:100]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][NATURAL][PET]
[CARNIVORE]
[PREFSTRING:cunning]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:7]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:cougar cub:cougar cubs]
[FAT:2]
[NOCTURNAL]
[BIOME_ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME_ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
[BIOME_SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME_SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d Talk:Trading

2009-04-17T17:11:02Z

Mithra: /* Arrival dates */

{{Archive|
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.
}}

== Culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Trading flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
'''Re: Adeptable's changes''' I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:::Ack, somehow didn't see this. Empty bins will still show up as Trading in the bring goods to depot menu, unmark them and your dwarves will haul them back to where they're needed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::Surely the bins' "Trading" status disappears after the Trader leaves? I mean, I've never noticed them as still being marked for "Trading" when the next caravan arrives next season. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 22:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

 

== How many wagons? ==

I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==

Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot?

I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)

:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)

:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.
:::::Auto Hotkey thingy. Heard it works wonders. Never tried it though.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== Merchant moods ==

My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?

:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== No more dwarven caravan ==

So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)

::I'm on year 13 of my most recent fortress and the Dwarven caravan declined to show up this year, after 12 years of no problem. I still don't meet the requirements for the Incoming King. In a previous game I did meet those requirements, and that did not interfere with the caravan (though the liason stopped letting me place orders once the king arrived). Anyway, I don't think my current fort has anything in common with what you've described, other than a mysteriously missing caravan after not damaging previous ones. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 00:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::It appears my problem was caused by a brief goblin siege that occurred when the caravan was supposed to be showing up. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==

I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::is this still true? i was unwittingly stealing everything off the merchants via the stocks screen. i dont have any steel yet, as i've not found any flux or iron ore. but every now and again, i noticed i had a bunch of steel/iron weapons/bolts/armo(u)r, so designated it all for melting, etc, etc.. eventually, i chose to 'dump' everything to see where they were getting it, and they were stripping the merchants of all their goods/clothes/everything metal xD will they come and siege me anytime soon? my army's not ready yet! i do give good profit margins (20%+), but i'm sure the stuff i nick is much more valuable :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

== Wagon movement ==

I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Arrival dates ==

Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:I've kept track over about 5 years. The Dwarf caravans seem to arrive around the 15th or 16th of Limestone and leave about the same time in Sandstone. The Human caravans seem to arrive around the 12th to 14th of Hematite and leave in Malachite. I don't have any data yet for the Elves. Once I get some more data points, I'll edit the wiki to add this info. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 17:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

==Wagons and magma==
A dwarven trade caravan passing over a magma channel on its way to my trade depot recently caught fire. Naturally, this caused lots of [[fun]], but I'm a bit perplexed by it. There was nothing flammable on the bridge - in fact, the magma beneath was 1/7 deep at best - but it looks like the wagons just spontaneously combusted as they passed over the stream. Can anyone confirm that it was the magma that caused this, or were the children just playing with matches again? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:07, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven Caravan Wood Logs ==
I noticed there was a "verify" next to "carries more wood the less trees you cut down" under the Elven Caravans and am not sure if it is right or not. Can anyone confirm this? I have observed the stock of wood brought by the elves in two games as increasing significantly with time. In one of the games wood was scarce, in the other wood was plentiful but to dangerous to cut down and in both I would consistently buy out all of the wood logs from every caravan. So I had theorized the increase in the number of logs brought was related to demand conveyed by buying out the stock repeatedly for years. However, not cutting down trees and buying out all the wood logs would tend to go hand in hand. Also, to really see a significant increase in a specific item I would need to buy out all the wood stock from a caravan for close several years. It is possible that both the demand and level of "production" of wood determine how much is brought. If either is true for wood, then it might be true for other items that Elves bring. Also, did I format this thing right? --[[User:Pencilinhand|PencilinHand]] 8:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)
:In my experience it's something more like - the more you have in stock, the less they bring. I was buying out all logs from them, and they brought ~120 logsevery year, and I chopped a lot of trees, but used them fast. Then I built some wooden machinery (axles, windmills), my stocks always showed about 100 logs in them after that, and elves began to bring only about 5 logs...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::I did a series of experiments over a period of 3 years in my current fort and can confirm that Dorten is right and my previously stated theories are wrong. A forts stockpile of wood appears to be the biggest factor in determining how much wood is brought by the elven caravans. When I had a stockpile of 51 wood logs the elves brought no wood, when I had a stockpile of 0 wood logs they brought 43 wood logs, similar results were observed regardless of if I was cutting down trees during the year(though I did not test any clear cuts). The other caravans may have brought more wood as well, but further testing is needed before I am confident in that statement, as it may have been caused by offerings/gifts. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)

==Trade Depot Color==
I know this doesn't have anything to do with trading, but it is interesting. Since Trade Depots are made out of 3 stones (or logs etc etc), if you combine stones of various colors, what do you get? I tried combining Orthoclase (yellow), Kimberlite (blue) and Olivine (green), and I got a green depot. Then I tried Gabbro (black) and 2 Orthoclase, and the depot was yellow. Kimberlite, Petrified Wood (red) and Olivine, the depot was green. Does anyone know how the color is selected?

:As far as I understand is the last stone for the color (or was it the first one?) --[[User:NobbZ|NobbZ]] 10:50, 23 February 2009 (EST)
::I'll have to fire up the game again when I get home, but I could have sworn that I've occasionally wound up with two-tone depots when I've used different stones. The main part was one color while the corners were another. But maybe I'm just imagining things. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)

== stealing animals ==

One of the objects I happened to cheat the game of was a nickel cage with a dog in it. on the units page, the dog was still shown to belong to the traders. Is there any way to change this? (or at least any [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun fun] to be had from this?)

: What happens when you [[kennel|train]] it into a war dog? or, for that matter, does the game recognize it as an animal that can be [[kennel|tamed]]? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:15, 25 March 2009 (EST)

==Buggy behavior with sieges==

In my current game the dwarven caravan arrived, followed immediately by a goblin siege. I crushed the siege but a couple caravan guards and a pack animal were killed. A handful of merchants, guards and animals got stuck at the edge of the map, and I never got to trade, even though all the wagons made it safely into the depot. I was however able to make the usual arrangements with the liason. Then I got the message that the caravan was leaving but they didn't actually go. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any way to fix it? --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 23:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

:In case something like this happens to anyone else, I found that digging out the area under the stuck merchants and collapsing it fixed the problem. The survivors started moving off the map and the wagons immediately pulled out of the depot. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Limited Caravan Accessiblity ==

Contrary to the comments in the section on wagons, I do not believe you can force a caravan to enter the map at a specific point. Running 0.28.181.40d, I build a wall so that there is only one entrance to the map that is accessible to the depot. Humans arrived from another point of the map, and I got the message "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site." I do see 'Depot accessible' on D. --[[User:Sfogarty|Sfogarty]] 05:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:As for my experience, game first chooses the side of the map for traders, and then checks if wagons can reach depot. I had to chop trees yearly to keep fortress accessible before I've build a road. However, it can be not side but embarking tile that is chosen before accessibility check, but I haven't done any experiments to validate if it is the case. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== lazy dwarves ==

I just had a Human Caravan.

None of my dwarves did anything. Not a single mug or gem or meal was moved to the depot. I had to disable my broker's labours- ALL of his labours- to get him to speak with the diplomat following him about like a lost puppy.

Now, I see a 'priority' setting function in the Manager. Would this be practical or even usable to set Depot requests high?

== Attacked caravan slowed down - bug? ==

All right, I was in my third or so year. Autumn came and the dwarven caravan showed up - along with a Goblin ambush. Naturally the two fought in front of my fortress (with some strategic ranged support from my marksdwarves). Of the three wagons, one was destroyed (phat lewt!). Thing is, once the Goblins were taken out of the pricture one of the wagons moved *very* slowly - slow enough, in fact, that it didn't even get into the trading depot before I got the message that the caravan was going to leave soon. The wagon froze at the edge of the depot, two steps shy of getting into position, and then they both just sat there - I never even got the option to trade with them :-/ Has anyone else encountered a similar issue or did my game just have a bout of cranial flatulence?

40d Talk:Container

2009-04-12T18:37:12Z

Mithra:

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

::A failed Goblin ambush preceded an incredible procession of EVERYONE in my fort carrying plump helmet spawn up to the surface to store it on a Goblin corpse who was unfortunate enough to die with a leather bag in its inventory. Even people for whom everything was turned off but their related job (e.g., miners). They only forgot about the bag when I both forbade it and set it for dumping. Now I can't do anything with it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:19, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Degrading bags ==

I am not sure if this should be mentioned here or under [[wear]] but I have noticed that bags of leaves, seeds, dye, etc. stored in barrels, inside, in designated stockpiles are subject to wear, though the contents of the bags and the barrels holding the bags are immune to wear. I am not sure if this is caused by foot traffic(though I suspect it is) or simply time as I made most of my bags in the first 5 years of my fort and I am just noticing this after year 20. I suggest a comment be added here and in the wear article as a warning, pending further investigation. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== Container Contents ==

I re-added the information about using the k-key to view container contents since the t-key method only works if the container isn't in a stockpile. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 18:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

40d:Container

2009-04-12T18:35:17Z

Mithra: Re-added k-key method for containers in a stockpile.

Types of containers the game knows are chests, coffers, boxes, cabinets, bags, [[barrel]]s and [[bin]]s. Only chests, coffers, bags and boxes are explicitely called container in game as they can be placed as [[furniture]] by {{k|b}}uilding. All containers are used to hold items, from personal possessions to [[gem]]s, [[alcohol|beer]], [[quarry bush]] leaves, and even living [[creatures]], but their use is context-sensitive, so you cannot use your barrels for storing [[coins]], but you ''can'' {{k|b}}uild a bag as a dwarf's personal container, analogous to a chest.

Chests, coffers, boxes and bags are subsumed under ''boxes and bags'' in the z-status' stocks screen, the other containers have their own entry.

To examine a container's contents when the container is in a stockpile, select the object location with the {{k|k}} key. Then, use {{k|+}} and {{k|-}} until the container is highlighted, then press {{k|enter}}. Press {{k|enter}} again to select the contents, if any. The i{{key|t}}ems command can be used to see items that are stored in a container that is not in a stockpile, once the container is built. See also, [[stocks]].

== Barrels, bins and bags ==

[[Barrel|Barrels]] are [[wood]]en or [[metal]] containers that are useful for storing items in a [[Stockpile#food|food stockpile]] and are used to store [[alcohol]], [[plants]], [[seed]] bags, [[meat]], [[fish]], [[dwarven syrup]], [[quarry bush]] leaf bags, [[flour]] bags and [[dye]] bags, cooked food in a stack of 10 or less, [[fat]] and [[tallow]].

[[Bin]]s are containers, again made from wood or metal, used for for most non-food items. They are sent to all the other stockpiles (with the exclusion of the [[refuse]], [[stone]] and [[graveyard]] piles) and will hold much larger stacks of items, making organizing those endless piles of +giant cave spider silk socks+ much easier to manage.

Bags are used to store [[powder]]s, such as [[seed]]s, [[quarry bush]] leaves, [[mill]] products ([[flour]], [[sugar]], [[dye]]) and [[sand]]. They are made from [[plant fiber]] (or [[silk]]) [[cloth]], [[leather]], or [[adamantine]]. Bags are used to gather and transport powders the same way [[bucket]]s are used to carry [[water]]. Bags can be placed inside other containers, such as barrels. Bags can be placed as [[furniture]] and then function as [[coffer]]s (see below).

== Cabinets and "chests" ==

These two containers are both furniture items only. They must be built in rooms assigned to dwarves in order to function properly. Cabinets are used to store clothing, and chests are used to store everything else.

A rock chest is called a coffer, and a glass chest is called a box, but they are used for the same purpose. Bags can also be built as chests.

[[Category:Furniture]][[Category:Items]]

40d:Animal trap

2009-04-10T20:04:19Z

Mithra: Meat used as bait will rot

:''For information on other types of traps, see [[Trap]].''

'''Animal traps''' are special [[trap]]s used to catch live [[vermin]] or [[fish]] from the [[river]], ''not'' (large) land [[animal]]s. Creating an animal trap requires the [[trapping]] skill and not [[carpentry]] or [[metalcrafting]] despite the fact that they are constructed at a [[carpenter's workshop]] or a [[metalsmith's forge]]. You may want to build separate workshops or forges to construct animal traps if you do it large scale, for if you do not have an unoccupied dwarf with the trapping skill active, work will grind to a halt as your carpenters and smiths wait for the construct animal trap job to be finished before they can get to their tasks.

Animal traps are stored by default in [[animal stockpile]]s when empty or containing an animal. They can be used for trapping animals in two ways - either by defining a Capture Live Land Animal task at the [[Kennel]]s (which usually results in [[Vermin]] being captured) or by {{k|b}}uilding them as an Ani{{k|m}}al Trap.

When used via the kennels, a dwarf with the Trapping [[labor]] enabled will pick up an animal trap and head to a food stockpile. The dwarf will search for nearby vermin, and if he find one, bundle the animal into the trap and drop it, and it will then be retrieved by a dwarf with Animal Hauling enabled and dropped in an animal stockpile.

When used via the {{k|b}}uild menu, the traps are constructed by a dwarf with the trapping labour enabled, using either a wooden or metal trap created previously from a Carpenter's shop or Forge. Once constructed, examining it with {{k|q}} will allow you to set the bait to be added to the trap. Set traps can be baited with nothing ({{k|z}}, presumably the inactive state), {{k|m}}eat, {{k|f}}ish or a large {{k|g}}em. Once placed and baited, you simply have to wait for an animal to walk in and trigger the trap. Meat used as bait can and will rot, releasing [[miasma]], if the trap is not triggered first. Traps are not guaranteed to successfully capture an animal, and it seems safe to assume that the quality of a constructed trap has some influence on the capture chance. The bait will be stolen if the trap fails to go off, but the trap remains set and simply needs rebaiting. It is interesting to note that fish cannot be captured in this method, with baited/flooded animal traps. One must use the 'capture live fish' command issued from the [[fishery]].

Once an animal is caught in a built and baited trap, the game will pause, zooming to the trap, and you will receive an announcement telling you what you caught. The trap will automatically be slated for removal, and one of your dwarves will deconstruct it and move the trap containing the animal back to the animal stockpile.

The sorts of small animal that these traps can catch aren't butcherable and provide no raw materials. Dwarves can tame them as pets, or if you leave them in the traps in the animal stockpile dwarves will occasionally come by and eat them. If your dwarves have a particular liking towards eating the vermin you catch, you might be unable to easily tame your vermin, as the dwarves will prefer to eat your vermin over almost anything else. To prevent this, you can forbid the vermin, but not the animal trap. This will stop the dwarves from eating the animal, but will not hinder your ability to tame it, since taming requires only that the animal trap be usable.

[[Category:Items]]

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2009-04-09T20:01:51Z

Mithra: /* Correctness */

== Correctness ==
There is no "correct" way to start fortress mode except from not picking Adventure Mode or Legends or Create New World on the main menu screen. It's entirely proper to embark with no skills and absolutely no supplies and watch your seven dwarves go crazy and die in the terrifying glacier. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:03, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:If you'd like to change the name, leave a request with the sysop or something. This conversation has been done 10 times over already and it never ends in anything useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::I dunno, he might be on to something there. This could be a guide on how to start the game, step by step, without pressing the wrong buttons or accidentally defenestrating either your computer or yourself! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:::Admins, please rename this page to "Dwarf management strategies" or something similar. It makes more sense than an assertion of "correctness". [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 03:11, 4 January 2009 (EST)
::::I'd like to add my vote for this. One of the keystones to DF play is that there isn't a correct way to do anything.--[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 20:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

== Farm Size ==
''Farm size: 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin ''

Is this with or without boozecooking? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:12, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reformatting this page ==

This page breaks from the style used on the rest of the wiki -- it's a dump of opinions and suggestions instead of a collaborative, well-organized article. The problem with this is evident in how people are just arguing with each other on the page (that's what ''talk pages'' are for) instead of putting their heads together to offer readers streamlined, practical advice.

Can we do some discussion here of what its general advice and structure should be, then rewrite it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:Having a bunch of different viewpoints in the page is fine to me as long as it doesn't look like a big argument :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT) 
:I was thinking about this too, but the unfortunate hurdle is that there's no good way to put in a 'generally agreed upon' sort of structure, and there's a lot of strong feelings that run both ways with many things. Perhaps the better way to do this would merely be to take the names out of it. Just put a heading and a couple of equally-bulleted points with the various views, possibly with the dates these views were last updated. A large part of my issue is that most of the advice on the page is clearly from many moons ago (the cats comments being the most noticable). The anvil discussion, for example, could then just be broken down into three bullets, one which suggests crafts, a second which suggests mechanisms, and a third which suggests meals.

:A reformat does need to happen, though. This wiki is really shortwinded on useful, coherant gameplay advice (MANY of the Beginners FAQ pages need total rewrites that I'll probably get to sooner rather than later) and I'd really like to see that change. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::Removing the signatures is definitely the starting point -- it will allow us to treat what's on the page as "our words" instead of "my words".

::I don't think "general agreement" is out of reach -- for any subject, there will be obviously bad advice, obviously good advice, and stuff that will largely depend on how you like to play the game. Our current dispute over trade goods is like that: crafts, mechanisms, meals, and clothes can ''all'' be effective trade goods; we can list their respective advantages and disadvantages and leave it for the player to decide what approach he or she wants to take. We just need to avoid the "One True Approach" mentality, except where everyone agrees that a given idea is Very Good or Very Bad.

::While we're at it, the page title needs to be changed -- though we can do that after it becomes clear what direction the rewrite is taking it in.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll give the page a once-over tomorrow and give my initial thoughts on what should be changed then.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It shouldn't take too long. Click Edit, hit Ctrl-A, and type <nowiki>{{Del}}</nowiki>. Profit. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Reformat is done. Someone else can deal with the nomenclature. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:You did an excellent job with the rewrite. I made various changes and expansions, and there's other stuff I want to add over the next several days.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I really think that a better name for this page would be "General Advice," since that's all it really is, and "Correctly" starting a fortress is mostly a matter of opinion and we're trying to make the page look less opinionated. The page could be very helpful and I think that once it's worked on a bit it could go on the main page. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 21:00, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, "general advice" is a little ''too'' general. At this point, I want to see what kind of changes we make to other related pages, such as [[your first fortress]]. Once we define the role of each better, it should be clear what this page should be named.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lies ==
Don't bring any beasts of burden. You will start with a breeding pair of them for free
That's a lie. You can have different animals at start
:And they're all breeding pairs and they're all beasts of burden (Musk oxen, camels, horses, donkeys, et al). The only way to not have a breeding pair is if you get mules to start out with, which has happened a grand total of 0 times in the 32 fortresses I've made. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::I think the commenter's point was that your two wagon animals will often not be the same species. I've only received two of the same wagon animals 2 times in 30-40 fortresses, and only when it was Muskoxen. Otherwise its two different species and therefore not a breeding pair.

::Further, if you buy single animals I've seen it where the wagon animal and the bought animal of the same species are the same sex - ie, unlike purchased animals, where buying two guarantees you one of each gender, the wagon animals are generated separately and don't check purchased animals gender before determining gender.

::If you want to guarantee a breeding pair, you have to buy 2 animals of the same type. Other methods have no guarantees.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::Well, if you want to put in 'often' then, you can be my guest, but I've seen no such thing. Every last time of the 40 fortresses or so I've played, I've gotten a breeding pair of beasts of burden for free when starting. The community I play DF with has had similar experiences - none of us have EVER had a breeding pair of beasts of burden as wagon animals, mules excepted for one playthrough on one person I speak with regularly. Overall I'd say my sample size is well over a hundred games, so I still feel this is entirely correct. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::I edited the paragraph. I've played a large number of fortresses and never seen a mated pair from my starting two animals. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 19:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone
Lies again. It's not '''metal''', it's made of ore. Not Iron statue, but Limonite statue, etc. (You still gain in wealth though)
:This works for '(material) nuggets'. Platinum, aluminum, gold, copper, etc. While the nomenclature is definitely wrong for ores, the ended cost of the statue is exactly the same based on quality. I don't know if this is a bug or not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::His objection was its not metal, its still made of stone. That stone is just 'Platinum Nuggets', which is not a *metal*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::It's indistinguishable. It's named the same, it impresses the same, it places the same, it is the same. I suppose if you want to call the swimming, feathered, quacking bird something other than a duck, go ahead, but it doesn't change the function of the game. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like megabeasts and goblins riding beak dogs as cavalry.
Oh, yeah? ONLY?
:Archers run out of ammo very quickly in pitched battles (they can only carry about 40 arrows in their quiver, and marksdwarves can run through that in no time at all. Trolls, Beak Dogs, and armored goblins will commonly take 5-7 arrows or more to bring down) and many people consider huge amounts of cage traps an exploit. If you've got another way of doing so, feel free to add it. I notice you didn't, nor did you sign your comments here. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::How about melee dwarves? Admittedly, I haven't seen beak dogs yet (my goblin civs apparently never have access), but i've seen a single legendary swordsdwarf deal with 10 armored goblins *by himself*. As melee dwarves are faster to train than marksdwarves...

::And megabeasts are a joke - even avoiding cage traps I trivially dealt with a zombie Titan via melee dwarves. Dragons and Hydrae are known pushovers, which makes the only significant megabeast threat a Colossus, and I'd be willing to bet sufficiently many legendary melee dwarves can take one. I mean, my last game featured 20 champion melee dwarves (legendary wrestlers/shield users/armor users/+1 or more weapons) who were all multi-legendary before I produced my first champion marksdwarf. They never even got injured during sieges/megabeasts/etc... And this is using training weapons (silver). Didn't see a Colossus, and by the time they do they'll probably be glad in shining adamantine, so...

::Really, the big problem with siege weapons is they don't have IFF technology, so your dwarven combatants are also at risk while you use them, meaning unlike marksdwarves you can't delay the enemy advance by sending melee dwarves into the fray to buy more firing time.

::As to solving small quiver size - stockpile your bolts right where you plan on firing from. Instant reload. Its not like you're going to attack from anything but a prepared position with them anyway.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::Two quick notes; beak dogs have a pretty annoying habit of shredding armor. The couple times I've had them get a hold of my champions, oftentimes the armor they are wearing is ruined and unusable. In other words, I don't think they'd have too many problems with melee dwarves in the grand scheme of things.

:::Secondly, archers are currently too dumb to reload bolts while still in combat mode. If they run out of ammo, they will abandon their post to charge the enemy and use the butt of their crossbow. The Hunter displays the same behavior when running out of bolts while hunting. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:49, 15 December 2008 (EST)

::::If you're microing enough to effectively use siege weapons, you can have your archers stand down when they run out of bolts so they can reload, then put them back on duty.
::::And I seriously doubt that if your champions are legendary wrestlers/shield users that beak dogs will get that many hits in. The megabeasts I've fought certainly haven't hit at all, and I would expect them to be better in combat than a beak dog. Even if the champion's armor gets shredded, he'll still have his dodging and blocking to keep him safe, and its not like he's just wearing one suit anyway - armor stacking (chain/plate) is good for you.
::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:48, 15 December 2008 (EST)

:::::For the half-dozenth time, and this is to everyone: if you'd like to change it, go right ahead, if you have something to add. I don't agree with you, Squirreloid, since I've seen a few beak dogs get nuts on my ironclad champion wrestlers more than once, but as you might figure from the fact that I take about 2 weeks to reply to this stuff, I honestly don't have much of an attachment to this page. I'm tired of seeing this space update with more random bullcrap with nothing happening on the actual page. I ignored it the last couple times it happened, but now it's time for it to stop. Put up or shut up. I don't know why folks keep coming back to this page anyway, almost all the notes are points of the tiniest nitpicks ('platinum' statues) or things that, honestly, go against most of the stories here and on the bay12 forums (beak dogs being 'jokes'), or even totally invented things (the note that this page 'needs revision', when there had been no such rumbling anywhere on this page and everyone shamelessly sucked me off when I finally reorganized it) and it's in defense of someone who couldn't even be arsed to sign his post or come back here to defend his own wild accusations. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:::::There has to be a better place for this discussion, but marksdwarves do in fact reload during combat now. At least they do when there is no easily available path to charge the enemy. Build towers, keep ammo in the tower, watch your dwarves go down stairs, reload quiver, and go back upstairs to continue firing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:26, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Ask for pearlash and rock crystal to make crystal glass.
crystal glass requires '''RAW''' rock crystal, that can't be imported
:Can't it? I admit I've only tried this once, but I pulled it in from the dwarven caravan just fine one time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:In conclusion, lies my ass. If you want to edit it, fine, but this is by and large good advice so you can kindly eat me if you're going to call me a liar. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:Go ahead and edit the page as you like... There does appear to be a consensus that it needs improvement! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:25, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::It's an error to say siege engines are the only safe way to deal with threats. Water traps, magma traps, hatch traps, weapon traps, and cage traps can all be arranged to be safer (and more hassle free) defense methods. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:54, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::That's fine, honestly it is. Feel free to add such a note, or a link to the various trap demonstrations. I'm pretty sure I meant to type 'one of the only' there anyway (it's hazy this long after the writing). I welcome editing and I welcome additions to the article. I don't welcome being called a liar by some idiot who doesn't even sign his posts. It was [[User:Dorten|Dorten]], incidentally. I have no idea who he is and I certainly don't have anything against him but he can eat my ass if he wants to call me a liar. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)

==Thoughts on Revising this Page==
Currently this and similar pages seem deadset on giving very specific advice, which is problematic when people don't agree on the nature of that advice. Why don't we do a basic analysis of the different considerations involved in putting together a successful fortress and maximizing your dwarves, and leave specific build advice as a postscript and proof of concept/example instead of the mainthrust of the article?

Ie, make the first paragraph something like this: 
When establishing a new fortress there are certain difficulties that must be overcome. All fortresses will need to feed their dwarves, handle the influx of migrants, build a secure space to live and work, keep their dwarves happy, and generate trade goods for the merchant caravans. Beyond satisfying these basic needs, dwarves will want to be leveled in experience, both in terms of physical abilities and at particular tasks, and may gain free experience from successfully completing strange mood requests. What follows is a guide to building a fortress that not only survives, but thrives.

Follow this up with paragraphs on options for accomplishing the above basic goals, and a paragraph on the relative value of various skills and how easy it is to level them respectively. Only then should we start busting out examples. Advice should also tend to be less absolute than it currently is (I've started plenty of successful fortresses without dogs, for example).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I agree with that approach. Your post over at [[talk:starting builds]] got me thinking along those lines. Although it's harder than just saying "do this" ;-) .

:In truth, as long as you have a means to feed your dwarves and a handful of things to keep them happy, any fortress will work. (Sooner or later you usually need some defensive measures as well.) That's that's one of the first things we should point out.

:But for me, and I think a lot of other players, much of the fun is in figuring out how to get your dwarves to do lots of stuff very effectively. We actually give pretty good advice on that -- we just make too many assumptions about what the specific stuff will be. This is not surprising given the page's origin ("How to correctly start fortress mode"? Ugh.), though it was improved dramatically by ThunderClaw and others. But it could be improved further, as could all of our "basic advice" pages.

:Right now I'm thinking through a rewrite of [[starting builds]] in response to your post there a few days ago. You made some assumptions as well, but also you challenged me to think beyond the assumptions I had been making. Bit by bit I think we can pull everything together better.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)
 
:The Your First Fortress guide covers the more general aspects of this; the purpose of this page, to my understanding, was to get into a bit more detail. When I rewrote this guide from its previous format, it was nothing but headings with a lot of people making various, very specific comments on very specific things. I tried to keep it like that during the overhaul, but I consolidated and updated a bunch of the advice and lumped it together in hierarchal headings that were a lot more readable.

:I don't pretend for an instant that this guide is perfect, but a general advice sort of thing seems to be contrary to the spirit of the article as I remember it. We had Your First Fortress for that. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:36, 12 December 2008 (EST)
===An All-Inclusive Guide===
"Fortress mode: So, you've got a crew together, united in a sense of adventure, duty, social outrage, simple greed or bloody-mindedness, perhaps even all of the above. You've come down (or up) out of the mountain halls, home trees, dark fortress, death pits, mother hive or backwater village, and regardless of race, species, motivation or temperment, two questions are likely on your mind: What do you need to accomplish your goals, and what's going to allow you to live to enjoy it? Look no further, the answer(s) lie within!

The first step in your journey is the most important: Choosing a destination. With the wide, wide world laid out before you, expansive and great but not overweight and actually quite good-looking, you know, given her age, this task can be so intimidating that many might be driven to simply bury their heads in the sand or whatever else serves as a soil type within the heartlands of their home civilization. While certainly a valid option, and a safe one, a truly brave, ambitious, and/or foolhardy band of explorers should set their sights much higher.

Is there evil to cleanse? A volcano to harness? Savage wilds to tame? Perhaps you really like snowcones, think it'd be cool to be able to fry eggs right on your doorstep, or always wanted to feel the soothing mist of a waterfall as your mortal enemies plummetting to their deaths are washed away into the raging rapids. All these and more are possible--just choose the right fortress site! See [[starting builds]] for some hints when deciding what to take with you. (Sorry--no kitchen sinks allowed.)

Know your limits and remember your priorities. Most people can't live without water, and few want to live without beer. Food is important, but unless your race is carnivorous, so long as you bring or gather a few seeds and have a small patch of soil you can protect, it won't be a problem. Meat-eaters should seek deeper wildnerness areas with better hunting and fishing grounds, and bring plenty of livestock if possible. Temperature and warm areas tend to have the most wildlife.

If there's no soil for farming, wet rocks will do! By pumping water over the ground, digging a channel to briefly divert a river or stream into (make sure to install a [[floodgate]] and a [[|mechanic|lever]] first!) or digging a [[pond]] to soak with a few bucketfuls, you can ensure that you'll have plenty of crops for the years to come. Remember that outdoor plants need sun and indoor plants need a lack of sun, and that sunlight only ever falls straight down from the sky, straight through anything until it hits the ground.

On the subject of water, watch out. Rivers often menace with spikes of [[carp]], and when the [[ocean]]s were created, someone was having way too much fun with the salt shaker. It's completely undrinkable. You can fix it up so you can drink it down by [[screw pump|pumping]] it into a fully [construction|constructed]] [[reservoir]], but making one of those isn't easy, especially if the ground is so [[|aquifer|soggy]] you can't dig out any stone without [[drowning|getting pickled lungs and a dead brain.]] Bring plenty of [[booze]] if you really, really want that beachfront property; even the water in the ground, rivers, and ponds will be salty for miles around.

A last word on water in regard to temperature. In 'hot' climates, water can boil away in the summer, in 'temperate' or 'cold' it will freeze in the winter. Frozen water can be fun to play with, but drinking it is another story. Water that's flown away into the sky can be pretty to look at, especially when it's shaped like a bunny or a dragon, but it's even harder to drink than the frozen kind. In 'scorching' or 'freezing' climates, water is often in its more useless states year-round! Both problems can be solved by getting the water under the ground, or finding some already there in an [[aquifer]] layer, but keep in mind that trying to build a [[reservoir]] in a [[glacier]] is not only futile, but also very dumb.

Got your food or water? Good! This next section might help you from bleeding your foody water all over the ground. When people talk about 'basic needs', they tend to include clothing and shelter with the other two. Well, let's face it: They're optional so long as you're not in the burning sun or freezing cold, or in danger of getting mauled by lions and tigermen and [[undead|skeletal]] [[giant eagle]]s, [[losing|oh my]]. Don't be fooled by the terrible threats that are out there, though, even a [[raccoon]] can be [[wounds|lethal]] if you don't take precautions. Choosing a more peaceful [[biome]] can help, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the opposite of evil is [[unicorn|cuddliness.]]

The best way to protect your community is to put as much [[wall|stuff]] as possible between ''the'' environment and ''your'' environment, by digging down, by building up, or just by picking a nigh-inaccessible site to live from the outset. More than likely, you'll still need to venture out to gather resources. This is where [[weapon]]s and [[military|armies]] come in, not to mention [[traps]] for your access points and the various other zany and funtastic aspects of [[fortress defense]].

Still alive? Phew. Lucky! If you're done securing yourself from [[food|the]] [[water|'ations,]] and you've been working on protecting yourself from [[creatures|nature]], you've got a head start on preparing for (semi-)intelligent [[semimegabeast|((semi-)]][[megabeast|mega-)]][[invader]]s. If you ''stay'' lucky, you'll have time to make [[legendary artifact|cool]] [[finished goods|stuff]] for [[trading|trade]], [[thoughts|happiness,]] or [[mega constructions|je ne sais quoi]].That's all there is to it!

...Or is it?"

do that. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:40, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:How to safely start fortress mode

2009-04-09T19:59:58Z

Mithra: /* Lies */

== Correctness ==
There is no "correct" way to start fortress mode except from not picking Adventure Mode or Legends or Create New World on the main menu screen. It's entirely proper to embark with no skills and absolutely no supplies and watch your seven dwarves go crazy and die in the terrifying glacier. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:03, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:If you'd like to change the name, leave a request with the sysop or something. This conversation has been done 10 times over already and it never ends in anything useful. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::I dunno, he might be on to something there. This could be a guide on how to start the game, step by step, without pressing the wrong buttons or accidentally defenestrating either your computer or yourself! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:22, 18 November 2008 (EST)
:::Admins, please rename this page to "Dwarf management strategies" or something similar. It makes more sense than an assertion of "correctness". [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 03:11, 4 January 2009 (EST)

== Farm Size ==
''Farm size: 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin ''

Is this with or without boozecooking? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:12, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reformatting this page ==

This page breaks from the style used on the rest of the wiki -- it's a dump of opinions and suggestions instead of a collaborative, well-organized article. The problem with this is evident in how people are just arguing with each other on the page (that's what ''talk pages'' are for) instead of putting their heads together to offer readers streamlined, practical advice.

Can we do some discussion here of what its general advice and structure should be, then rewrite it?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:38, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:Having a bunch of different viewpoints in the page is fine to me as long as it doesn't look like a big argument :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:48, 30 October 2008 (EDT) 
:I was thinking about this too, but the unfortunate hurdle is that there's no good way to put in a 'generally agreed upon' sort of structure, and there's a lot of strong feelings that run both ways with many things. Perhaps the better way to do this would merely be to take the names out of it. Just put a heading and a couple of equally-bulleted points with the various views, possibly with the dates these views were last updated. A large part of my issue is that most of the advice on the page is clearly from many moons ago (the cats comments being the most noticable). The anvil discussion, for example, could then just be broken down into three bullets, one which suggests crafts, a second which suggests mechanisms, and a third which suggests meals.

:A reformat does need to happen, though. This wiki is really shortwinded on useful, coherant gameplay advice (MANY of the Beginners FAQ pages need total rewrites that I'll probably get to sooner rather than later) and I'd really like to see that change. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::Removing the signatures is definitely the starting point -- it will allow us to treat what's on the page as "our words" instead of "my words".

::I don't think "general agreement" is out of reach -- for any subject, there will be obviously bad advice, obviously good advice, and stuff that will largely depend on how you like to play the game. Our current dispute over trade goods is like that: crafts, mechanisms, meals, and clothes can ''all'' be effective trade goods; we can list their respective advantages and disadvantages and leave it for the player to decide what approach he or she wants to take. We just need to avoid the "One True Approach" mentality, except where everyone agrees that a given idea is Very Good or Very Bad.

::While we're at it, the page title needs to be changed -- though we can do that after it becomes clear what direction the rewrite is taking it in.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I'll give the page a once-over tomorrow and give my initial thoughts on what should be changed then.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It shouldn't take too long. Click Edit, hit Ctrl-A, and type <nowiki>{{Del}}</nowiki>. Profit. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Reformat is done. Someone else can deal with the nomenclature. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:You did an excellent job with the rewrite. I made various changes and expansions, and there's other stuff I want to add over the next several days.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I really think that a better name for this page would be "General Advice," since that's all it really is, and "Correctly" starting a fortress is mostly a matter of opinion and we're trying to make the page look less opinionated. The page could be very helpful and I think that once it's worked on a bit it could go on the main page. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 21:00, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, "general advice" is a little ''too'' general. At this point, I want to see what kind of changes we make to other related pages, such as [[your first fortress]]. Once we define the role of each better, it should be clear what this page should be named.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lies ==
Don't bring any beasts of burden. You will start with a breeding pair of them for free
That's a lie. You can have different animals at start
:And they're all breeding pairs and they're all beasts of burden (Musk oxen, camels, horses, donkeys, et al). The only way to not have a breeding pair is if you get mules to start out with, which has happened a grand total of 0 times in the 32 fortresses I've made. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::I think the commenter's point was that your two wagon animals will often not be the same species. I've only received two of the same wagon animals 2 times in 30-40 fortresses, and only when it was Muskoxen. Otherwise its two different species and therefore not a breeding pair.

::Further, if you buy single animals I've seen it where the wagon animal and the bought animal of the same species are the same sex - ie, unlike purchased animals, where buying two guarantees you one of each gender, the wagon animals are generated separately and don't check purchased animals gender before determining gender.

::If you want to guarantee a breeding pair, you have to buy 2 animals of the same type. Other methods have no guarantees.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:::Well, if you want to put in 'often' then, you can be my guest, but I've seen no such thing. Every last time of the 40 fortresses or so I've played, I've gotten a breeding pair of beasts of burden for free when starting. The community I play DF with has had similar experiences - none of us have EVER had a breeding pair of beasts of burden as wagon animals, mules excepted for one playthrough on one person I speak with regularly. Overall I'd say my sample size is well over a hundred games, so I still feel this is entirely correct. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::I edited the paragraph. I've played a large number of fortresses and never seen a mated pair from my starting two animals. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 19:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone
Lies again. It's not '''metal''', it's made of ore. Not Iron statue, but Limonite statue, etc. (You still gain in wealth though)
:This works for '(material) nuggets'. Platinum, aluminum, gold, copper, etc. While the nomenclature is definitely wrong for ores, the ended cost of the statue is exactly the same based on quality. I don't know if this is a bug or not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::His objection was its not metal, its still made of stone. That stone is just 'Platinum Nuggets', which is not a *metal*. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::It's indistinguishable. It's named the same, it impresses the same, it places the same, it is the same. I suppose if you want to call the swimming, feathered, quacking bird something other than a duck, go ahead, but it doesn't change the function of the game. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like megabeasts and goblins riding beak dogs as cavalry.
Oh, yeah? ONLY?
:Archers run out of ammo very quickly in pitched battles (they can only carry about 40 arrows in their quiver, and marksdwarves can run through that in no time at all. Trolls, Beak Dogs, and armored goblins will commonly take 5-7 arrows or more to bring down) and many people consider huge amounts of cage traps an exploit. If you've got another way of doing so, feel free to add it. I notice you didn't, nor did you sign your comments here. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::How about melee dwarves? Admittedly, I haven't seen beak dogs yet (my goblin civs apparently never have access), but i've seen a single legendary swordsdwarf deal with 10 armored goblins *by himself*. As melee dwarves are faster to train than marksdwarves...

::And megabeasts are a joke - even avoiding cage traps I trivially dealt with a zombie Titan via melee dwarves. Dragons and Hydrae are known pushovers, which makes the only significant megabeast threat a Colossus, and I'd be willing to bet sufficiently many legendary melee dwarves can take one. I mean, my last game featured 20 champion melee dwarves (legendary wrestlers/shield users/armor users/+1 or more weapons) who were all multi-legendary before I produced my first champion marksdwarf. They never even got injured during sieges/megabeasts/etc... And this is using training weapons (silver). Didn't see a Colossus, and by the time they do they'll probably be glad in shining adamantine, so...

::Really, the big problem with siege weapons is they don't have IFF technology, so your dwarven combatants are also at risk while you use them, meaning unlike marksdwarves you can't delay the enemy advance by sending melee dwarves into the fray to buy more firing time.

::As to solving small quiver size - stockpile your bolts right where you plan on firing from. Instant reload. Its not like you're going to attack from anything but a prepared position with them anyway.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::Two quick notes; beak dogs have a pretty annoying habit of shredding armor. The couple times I've had them get a hold of my champions, oftentimes the armor they are wearing is ruined and unusable. In other words, I don't think they'd have too many problems with melee dwarves in the grand scheme of things.

:::Secondly, archers are currently too dumb to reload bolts while still in combat mode. If they run out of ammo, they will abandon their post to charge the enemy and use the butt of their crossbow. The Hunter displays the same behavior when running out of bolts while hunting. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:49, 15 December 2008 (EST)

::::If you're microing enough to effectively use siege weapons, you can have your archers stand down when they run out of bolts so they can reload, then put them back on duty.
::::And I seriously doubt that if your champions are legendary wrestlers/shield users that beak dogs will get that many hits in. The megabeasts I've fought certainly haven't hit at all, and I would expect them to be better in combat than a beak dog. Even if the champion's armor gets shredded, he'll still have his dodging and blocking to keep him safe, and its not like he's just wearing one suit anyway - armor stacking (chain/plate) is good for you.
::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:48, 15 December 2008 (EST)

:::::For the half-dozenth time, and this is to everyone: if you'd like to change it, go right ahead, if you have something to add. I don't agree with you, Squirreloid, since I've seen a few beak dogs get nuts on my ironclad champion wrestlers more than once, but as you might figure from the fact that I take about 2 weeks to reply to this stuff, I honestly don't have much of an attachment to this page. I'm tired of seeing this space update with more random bullcrap with nothing happening on the actual page. I ignored it the last couple times it happened, but now it's time for it to stop. Put up or shut up. I don't know why folks keep coming back to this page anyway, almost all the notes are points of the tiniest nitpicks ('platinum' statues) or things that, honestly, go against most of the stories here and on the bay12 forums (beak dogs being 'jokes'), or even totally invented things (the note that this page 'needs revision', when there had been no such rumbling anywhere on this page and everyone shamelessly sucked me off when I finally reorganized it) and it's in defense of someone who couldn't even be arsed to sign his post or come back here to defend his own wild accusations. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:43, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:::::There has to be a better place for this discussion, but marksdwarves do in fact reload during combat now. At least they do when there is no easily available path to charge the enemy. Build towers, keep ammo in the tower, watch your dwarves go down stairs, reload quiver, and go back upstairs to continue firing. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:26, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Ask for pearlash and rock crystal to make crystal glass.
crystal glass requires '''RAW''' rock crystal, that can't be imported
:Can't it? I admit I've only tried this once, but I pulled it in from the dwarven caravan just fine one time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:In conclusion, lies my ass. If you want to edit it, fine, but this is by and large good advice so you can kindly eat me if you're going to call me a liar. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:Go ahead and edit the page as you like... There does appear to be a consensus that it needs improvement! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:25, 21 November 2008 (EST)

::It's an error to say siege engines are the only safe way to deal with threats. Water traps, magma traps, hatch traps, weapon traps, and cage traps can all be arranged to be safer (and more hassle free) defense methods. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:54, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::That's fine, honestly it is. Feel free to add such a note, or a link to the various trap demonstrations. I'm pretty sure I meant to type 'one of the only' there anyway (it's hazy this long after the writing). I welcome editing and I welcome additions to the article. I don't welcome being called a liar by some idiot who doesn't even sign his posts. It was [[User:Dorten|Dorten]], incidentally. I have no idea who he is and I certainly don't have anything against him but he can eat my ass if he wants to call me a liar. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)

==Thoughts on Revising this Page==
Currently this and similar pages seem deadset on giving very specific advice, which is problematic when people don't agree on the nature of that advice. Why don't we do a basic analysis of the different considerations involved in putting together a successful fortress and maximizing your dwarves, and leave specific build advice as a postscript and proof of concept/example instead of the mainthrust of the article?

Ie, make the first paragraph something like this: 
When establishing a new fortress there are certain difficulties that must be overcome. All fortresses will need to feed their dwarves, handle the influx of migrants, build a secure space to live and work, keep their dwarves happy, and generate trade goods for the merchant caravans. Beyond satisfying these basic needs, dwarves will want to be leveled in experience, both in terms of physical abilities and at particular tasks, and may gain free experience from successfully completing strange mood requests. What follows is a guide to building a fortress that not only survives, but thrives.

Follow this up with paragraphs on options for accomplishing the above basic goals, and a paragraph on the relative value of various skills and how easy it is to level them respectively. Only then should we start busting out examples. Advice should also tend to be less absolute than it currently is (I've started plenty of successful fortresses without dogs, for example).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:05, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I agree with that approach. Your post over at [[talk:starting builds]] got me thinking along those lines. Although it's harder than just saying "do this" ;-) .

:In truth, as long as you have a means to feed your dwarves and a handful of things to keep them happy, any fortress will work. (Sooner or later you usually need some defensive measures as well.) That's that's one of the first things we should point out.

:But for me, and I think a lot of other players, much of the fun is in figuring out how to get your dwarves to do lots of stuff very effectively. We actually give pretty good advice on that -- we just make too many assumptions about what the specific stuff will be. This is not surprising given the page's origin ("How to correctly start fortress mode"? Ugh.), though it was improved dramatically by ThunderClaw and others. But it could be improved further, as could all of our "basic advice" pages.

:Right now I'm thinking through a rewrite of [[starting builds]] in response to your post there a few days ago. You made some assumptions as well, but also you challenged me to think beyond the assumptions I had been making. Bit by bit I think we can pull everything together better.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)
 
:The Your First Fortress guide covers the more general aspects of this; the purpose of this page, to my understanding, was to get into a bit more detail. When I rewrote this guide from its previous format, it was nothing but headings with a lot of people making various, very specific comments on very specific things. I tried to keep it like that during the overhaul, but I consolidated and updated a bunch of the advice and lumped it together in hierarchal headings that were a lot more readable.

:I don't pretend for an instant that this guide is perfect, but a general advice sort of thing seems to be contrary to the spirit of the article as I remember it. We had Your First Fortress for that. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:36, 12 December 2008 (EST)
===An All-Inclusive Guide===
"Fortress mode: So, you've got a crew together, united in a sense of adventure, duty, social outrage, simple greed or bloody-mindedness, perhaps even all of the above. You've come down (or up) out of the mountain halls, home trees, dark fortress, death pits, mother hive or backwater village, and regardless of race, species, motivation or temperment, two questions are likely on your mind: What do you need to accomplish your goals, and what's going to allow you to live to enjoy it? Look no further, the answer(s) lie within!

The first step in your journey is the most important: Choosing a destination. With the wide, wide world laid out before you, expansive and great but not overweight and actually quite good-looking, you know, given her age, this task can be so intimidating that many might be driven to simply bury their heads in the sand or whatever else serves as a soil type within the heartlands of their home civilization. While certainly a valid option, and a safe one, a truly brave, ambitious, and/or foolhardy band of explorers should set their sights much higher.

Is there evil to cleanse? A volcano to harness? Savage wilds to tame? Perhaps you really like snowcones, think it'd be cool to be able to fry eggs right on your doorstep, or always wanted to feel the soothing mist of a waterfall as your mortal enemies plummetting to their deaths are washed away into the raging rapids. All these and more are possible--just choose the right fortress site! See [[starting builds]] for some hints when deciding what to take with you. (Sorry--no kitchen sinks allowed.)

Know your limits and remember your priorities. Most people can't live without water, and few want to live without beer. Food is important, but unless your race is carnivorous, so long as you bring or gather a few seeds and have a small patch of soil you can protect, it won't be a problem. Meat-eaters should seek deeper wildnerness areas with better hunting and fishing grounds, and bring plenty of livestock if possible. Temperature and warm areas tend to have the most wildlife.

If there's no soil for farming, wet rocks will do! By pumping water over the ground, digging a channel to briefly divert a river or stream into (make sure to install a [[floodgate]] and a [[|mechanic|lever]] first!) or digging a [[pond]] to soak with a few bucketfuls, you can ensure that you'll have plenty of crops for the years to come. Remember that outdoor plants need sun and indoor plants need a lack of sun, and that sunlight only ever falls straight down from the sky, straight through anything until it hits the ground.

On the subject of water, watch out. Rivers often menace with spikes of [[carp]], and when the [[ocean]]s were created, someone was having way too much fun with the salt shaker. It's completely undrinkable. You can fix it up so you can drink it down by [[screw pump|pumping]] it into a fully [construction|constructed]] [[reservoir]], but making one of those isn't easy, especially if the ground is so [[|aquifer|soggy]] you can't dig out any stone without [[drowning|getting pickled lungs and a dead brain.]] Bring plenty of [[booze]] if you really, really want that beachfront property; even the water in the ground, rivers, and ponds will be salty for miles around.

A last word on water in regard to temperature. In 'hot' climates, water can boil away in the summer, in 'temperate' or 'cold' it will freeze in the winter. Frozen water can be fun to play with, but drinking it is another story. Water that's flown away into the sky can be pretty to look at, especially when it's shaped like a bunny or a dragon, but it's even harder to drink than the frozen kind. In 'scorching' or 'freezing' climates, water is often in its more useless states year-round! Both problems can be solved by getting the water under the ground, or finding some already there in an [[aquifer]] layer, but keep in mind that trying to build a [[reservoir]] in a [[glacier]] is not only futile, but also very dumb.

Got your food or water? Good! This next section might help you from bleeding your foody water all over the ground. When people talk about 'basic needs', they tend to include clothing and shelter with the other two. Well, let's face it: They're optional so long as you're not in the burning sun or freezing cold, or in danger of getting mauled by lions and tigermen and [[undead|skeletal]] [[giant eagle]]s, [[losing|oh my]]. Don't be fooled by the terrible threats that are out there, though, even a [[raccoon]] can be [[wounds|lethal]] if you don't take precautions. Choosing a more peaceful [[biome]] can help, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the opposite of evil is [[unicorn|cuddliness.]]

The best way to protect your community is to put as much [[wall|stuff]] as possible between ''the'' environment and ''your'' environment, by digging down, by building up, or just by picking a nigh-inaccessible site to live from the outset. More than likely, you'll still need to venture out to gather resources. This is where [[weapon]]s and [[military|armies]] come in, not to mention [[traps]] for your access points and the various other zany and funtastic aspects of [[fortress defense]].

Still alive? Phew. Lucky! If you're done securing yourself from [[food|the]] [[water|'ations,]] and you've been working on protecting yourself from [[creatures|nature]], you've got a head start on preparing for (semi-)intelligent [[semimegabeast|((semi-)]][[megabeast|mega-)]][[invader]]s. If you ''stay'' lucky, you'll have time to make [[legendary artifact|cool]] [[finished goods|stuff]] for [[trading|trade]], [[thoughts|happiness,]] or [[mega constructions|je ne sais quoi]].That's all there is to it!

...Or is it?"

do that. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:40, 22 November 2008 (EST)

40d:How to safely start fortress mode

2009-04-09T19:55:50Z

Mithra: Beasts of Burden: starting pair are not auto mating pair.

==Dwarf goods==
This section explains the relative importance of various goods in the early and late game.

===Starting equipment===

:''See also: [[Starting builds]]''

You should not start out without an ample quantity of [[food]] and [[drink]]. [[Booze]] should be brought in larger quantities than [[food]], since it is easier to produce food (it does not necessarily need to be stored in barrels), and dwarves drink twice as often as they eat. Approximately 60 drink and 20-30 food is a safe startup supply.

Every five units of food or drink (rounded up) will come in its own barrel, included for free. (This does not include seeds.) Different types of food will be stored in separate barrels, meaning that you can get a free barrel for each new food you buy. A single unit of each of the cheap (2☼) meats is recommended, and for whatever other food and drink you buy, try to have the quantity end in 1 or 6 (11, 16, 21, etc.) to get an extra barrel.

It is recommended to bring an equal amount of each type of [[alcohol]] (wine, rum, ale, and beer) to avoid dwarves getting "[[thought|tired of the same old booze lately]]". If bringing meat, [[turtle]] is recommended, as it leaves behind one [[bone]] and one [[shell]] when consumed, which can be turned into [[bolt]]s, [[crossbow]]s [[armor]], and other goods.

You might also consider bringing [[plump helmet]]s; when [[still|brewed]], each unit of plant turns into five units of alcohol and one to two seeds. This approach requires that you be able to cut down trees to make barrels shortly after your arrival (required for brewing), although you can also free up all those "free" barrels you brought by [[kitchen|cooking]] the food and drink in them into [[prepared meal]]s.

[[Farming]] is the most dependable method of food production, so you should bring some [[seed]]s on embark. If you plan to make large farms from the get-go, you should bring 50 seeds or more. Brewing, [[farmer's workshop|processing]], and [[milling]] plants all produce seeds; if you process your plants as you go along, your seed stockpiles will grow exponentially.

Plump helmets are the most useful crop, as they grow quickly, in any season, and are edible raw, making them the staple of the dwarven diet. But it is recommended you also bring at least five each of [[pig tail]], [[cave wheat]], and [[sweet pod]] seeds -- their respective crops can all be brewed, giving your dwarves access to a variety of alcohols, which makes them happy. All alcohol can also be turned into food via cooking, making them all viable food crops. Pig tails can additionally be turned into [[cloth]], from which you can make [[bag]]s, which are critical to several industries, or [[rope]]s, which are good for corrals. Bringing a few [[dimple cup]] spawn also allows you to start a [[dye|dyeing]] industry at any point, and [[rock nuts]] grow into [[quarry bush]]es, allowing for even greater variety in the dwarven diet.

Bring one copper [[pick]] for each miner you have and one steel [[battle axe]] for every [[woodcutter]] you have. They're gonna be no good without their tools.

Whether or not to bring an [[anvil]] to start out with is a pretty contentious issue. It's largely up to your playstyle, and the conditions surrounding the site you come up with. Generally, if you are settling an area that is very mountainous with lots of ore around and some [[magma]] to make production easy, you are definitely going to want to bring an anvil. If not, you may end up not using a forge for many seasons, so you can comfortably purchase one from the dwarven caravan before it's needed.

Bringing [[wood]] in your starting wagon is more important the less heavily forested your surroundings are. Even sparsely-wooded areas will provide enough wood to fuel your initial fortress, but woodcutting will take time. Another consideration is that if you make enough room to bring 30 logs or so, you will probably be able to sidestep having a dedicated [[woodcutter]] entirely, which will free up the 300 points you would have spent on a steel [[battle axe]] for other purposes. It is your call.

If you do bring an anvil and want to be really crafty with your points, don't bring any axes -- instead, forge them on-site. If you don't bring any wood, you'll need to first deconstruct the [[wagon]] ({{k|t}}-{{k|x}}: Remove Building), which will produce three logs. Build a [[wood furnace]], [[smelter]], and [[forge]], and turn two of the logs into [[charcoal]]. Scan the mountain's edge for exposed veins of [[ore]] and have your miners dig out a few tiles. Smelt one piece of ore (either [[copper]] or [[iron]] will do), then forge the resulting bar into an axe. Chop down more wood, make more charcoal, and repeat the process until you have as many axes as you want.

Always make room for at least two [[dog]]s. Always. Dogs are a critical part of any fortress and bringing a breeding pair to start out with will help a lot. Bringing more than two will greatly speed the breeding process (10 dogs can turn into 50 within a few years), and are a very effective early defense.

Build a [[kennel]] and train the dogs as early as possible; war dogs are far more effective in combat than regular dogs. War dogs will follow their trainers around, so have dwarves with high-risk jobs train them (such as woodcutters or wood haulers, who encounter a lot of wildlife). A stream of dogs criss-crossing the outdoors is also a very effective early warning system and first line of defense against ambushers and other dangerous creatures.

Buy regular dogs at the start, not war dogs or puppies. Untrained dogs cost half as much and are trivial to train. Puppies cannot breed or be trained until they grow up.

Beasts of burden are expensive and probably not worth the expense at the start. Immigrants will routinely bring their own to your fortress, often completing a mating pair for the two animals you automatically begin with. You'll be overrun with them soon enough. Cram them all into a [[cage]] to control their population and reduce their impact on your game speed.

===Advanced goods===
This section covers advanced goods for the betterment of one's own fortress. Trade goods are covered below, in Dwarven economics.

[[Statue]]s are one of the better ways to easily increase fortress wealth and improve the mood of the dwarves in the area. It's possible to make a metal [[statue]] from the ore of the metal if you turn off economic restrictions on the stone, which not only saves you time in operating the [[smelter]] and the [[fuel]] in the process, but it also allows you to triple the production potential from a single vein. Statues require 3 bars to make from metal, but only 1 stone to make from ore. Plus, it's easier to train up a high-skill mason to do the job than to train a high-skill metal crafter. Turning off restrictions on economic stone will allow you to make a metal ANYTHING from that ore stone, but statues get the highest multiplier, so they are best used there unless you are trying to impress a noble with a small room.

[[Stone]], as a whole, should be used for everything you can possibly use it for. It's plentiful and it's easy to use.

[[Metal]] is required for the dwarven [[justice]] system, since cages tend to leave dwarves very unhappy and liable to head right back into jail again, and strong dwarves can tear [[rope]] apart. Metal [[chain]]s are the best way to handle Justice, since the dwarf is active to sleep in an adjacent bed, admire nearby engravings and decorations, and do other things that rehabilitate him from crime.

[[Cloth]] is better than [[leather]] for making clothing for your dwarves. Cloth can be dyed, which increases its value and impressiveness, and it weighs significantly less, which is an important consideration for soldiers wearing heavy plate mail or haulers that are not strong.

[[Leather]] is fantastic for accessible armor. It requires nothing but a tanned hide and a leather works. To boot, masterwork leather armor is as strong as iron, letting you compete on level ground with goblins sporting iron equipment if you do not have access to metal, but do have a legendary leatherworker. Excess leather armor can always be sold as a trade good, so there's no excuse not to make a big surplus of it. A full suit of leather armor is a helm, armor (breastplate), leggings, high boots, and shield.

[[Shell]] can make cheap gauntlets using the [[bone carver]] skill, which can complete a suit of armor for people wearing leather (there are no handguards for leather wearers). It's also commonly requested by [[strange mood]]s and is difficult to make quickly, so it's best to keep a stockpile. If you have a large surplus, it's fantastic for decoration.

[[Bone]] is the best material to make [[bolt]]s out of. It's easy to get a hold of, requires no expensive materials, and does fine damage. A masterwork bone bolt hurts just as much as an iron bolt.

[[Glass]] is outstanding if you have sand and magma. A powered magma glass furnace with a steady supply of sand can essentially make rough gems, furniture, and cages out of nothing. Plus, green glass has a basic value of 2, the same [[flux]] stone. If you have no magma, though, feeding a full-scale glass industry is too expensive to consider, [[fuel]]-wise.

==Dwarf jobs==
This section encompasses advice for working your dwarves for the betterment of your personal fortress; the merits of various economic professions like craftsdwarves will be covered later.
===Fortress startup===
The critical jobs in a fortress are [[miner]], [[grower]], [[mason]], and [[carpenter]]. Your first 7 dwarves should always include someone who is proficient at these 4 jobs. The other skills you assign can be whatever you prefer or is most appropriate for your situation, though don't be afraid to double up on these base skills. 2 miners and 2 growers can make the early game much easier. Military skills can be critical in harsh starting locations. [[Cook]] and [[Brewer]] are only mildly less critical, as good food and drink gives essentially free happy thoughts, and trained kitchen/still staff produce much faster. [[Mechanic]] is useful if you intend to use mechanisms as trade goods. Taking a proficient [[armorsmith]], [[weaponsmith]], or [[siege engineer]] from the start can save a lot of material and time, and could be worthwhile. [[Woodcutter]] is also a common, popular choice, especially since it can be cut with [[axedwarf]] for some extra security early on. [[Herbalist]] can help you get away with bringing less food so you can instead get more durable commodities like picks, armor, or even dogs. [[Herbalist]] will also help you harvest the local seeds so you can get above-ground crops going quickly. Once the earth is struck, you should build a mason's and carpenter's workshop and have them start churning out things like doors, tables, chairs, and beds as quickly as they possibly can; your fledgling fortress will need lots and lots of basic commodities.

===Advanced jobs===
These are jobs that are important building blocks to your finished civilization, but are better handled by immigrants.

[[Fishing]] is one of the better industries to found with your first wave of immigrants. The most useful 'fish' to capture is the [[turtle]], which spawns as vermin in any still pool of water, including flooded cisterns inside your fortress. Turtle production provides [[bone]]s and [[shell]], which are common requests in [[strange mood]]s, and also provide an alternate food source for your dwarves in case your farms fail for whatever reason. To boot, fisherdwarves require no special equipment and can just jump right to work. Fishing should not, however, be relied on as the primary food source for any fortress in the long term; it is far less efficient than farming, and sources of fish can become temporarily exhausted at inopportune times.

[[Hunting]] is good for many of the same reasons. Animal kills produce meat, bones, skin, and fat. The meat is directly edible, even without cooking; the bones can be used to create [[bolt]]s, [[armor]], and [[craft]]s; the skin can be [[tanner's shop|tanned]] into [[leather]]; and the fat can be rendered into tallow at the [[kitchen]], which can then be turned into more food in the form of [[prepared meal]]s. Leather is outstandingly useful as cheap armor for your military and bags. Animal [[skull]]s are also useful for making the [[totem]] trade good, but that is a separate consideration.

Hunters will require weapons to be most effective. Build a [[Bowyer's Workshop]] to construct a bone or wood crossbow, and a [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop]] to stamp out bolts. This will require either [[bone carving]] or [[woodcrafting]], depending on if you use bone or wood bolts. Bone carvers tend to be fairly common in immigrant waves, but a hunter can handle most animals even with normal-quality bolts. Also be sure to have a [[tanner]] designated so you can process the hides, and a [[leatherworker]] designated who can construct some leather armor for your hunter as you get some hides to use.

[[Siege operator]]s are important for the long-term survival of your fortress. Siege engines the only safe way to deal with the biggest threats you will face, like [[megabeasts]] and goblins riding [[beak dog]]s as cavalry. They take a long time to train, so you need to plan well ahead. Designate some early and have them start training on throwaway catapults as soon as you can spare the labor.

Your standing [[military]] should also be a consideration from your first immigrant wave. Consider starting a [[cross-training]] program to get the flabby, untrained Peasants that immigrate into shape for military service.

The [[cloth]] industry is also a good one to establish if you get things like weavers and clothiers with your first immigrant wave. The cloth industry lets you create ropes (critical for building [[well]]s) and bags in the short term, and good finished clothing in the longer term to keep your dwarves happier. [[Pig tail]]s will provide an easy early cloth supply if you bring some seeds along when you embark.

Using the cloth industry, it is worth it to mass produce some ropes and honeycomb a large (5x5 or larger) room with them, then assign many beasts of burden to them. This works as a corral, keeping the animals contained and not clogging up traffic while at the same time allowing them to breed to become an emergency supply of food. For performance considerations, it's highly suggested you cage newborn animals in any cage you have available, to keep them from eating up CPU by wandering aimlessly around the fortress. This goes double for [[cat]]s, who randomly adopt dwarves and become unkillable.

==Dwarf happiness and domestics==
This section will cover how to keep your dwarves happy and satisfied in the early and late games.

===Fortress startup===
Early fortresses are usually pretty placid. There are not that many unhappy thoughts to go around, so dwarves generally do not get too angry at anything. However, it will certainly not remain that way, so you should plan for the eventual 200 mark from the get-go. A legendary dining room is a great place to start. Something as simple as a 5x5 room with a few very impressive things in the middle (such as an expensive [[statue]] or a furniture artifact) will induce the 'legendary dining room' happy thought in dwarves even without engraving (though smoothing doesn't hurt). Dwarves get harder and harder to impress as the game goes on, though, so be certain to engrave it once your engravers are legendary or close to it.

A legendary dining room is usually all the more you need to keep the peace in the early going. One powerful happy thought without many things to dampen the mood will keep everyone smiling wide.

Early on, you should plan ahead for the late game, though. Figure out where your heavy traffic areas are going to be, and make the hallway at least 3 squares wide. Cramped hallways slow down dwarves and make unhappy thoughts more likely after the economy activates. Designate a large (5x5 minimum) barracks and line only 2 sides with beds. Peasants will no longer use undesignated 'hospital beds' for sleeping after the economy activates, but at the same time, sparring soldiers will be hurt and accidentally killed much more often in very crowded barrack rooms. You need to provide large tracts empty space to keep sparring non-lethal. Plus, huge barracks are more impressive, which is another easy happy thought.

Plan an apartment complex from the get-go. Private bedrooms are a huge part of the late game, and will help keep everyone peaceful until the late game arrives, so there's no reason not to do it. The [[bedroom design]] article can help you more. Resist the urge to smooth and engrave EVERY apartment you make. When the economy activates, a bunch of people living above their means are going to get evicted, and they're going to need affordable housing to move into.

In other considerations, cats are almost certain to come to your fortress with immigrants, even if you didn't start with them. Since they arrive as pets, keeping them from breeding is impossible.

===Advanced domestics===
Happiness becomes one of your primary considerations when lots of dwarves are around and the economy has activated. The economy brings about a whole new truckload of possible unhappy thoughts in addition to the ones you've already been dealing with, so you need to use everything in your power to combat them. A [[cross-training]] program becomes a serious benefit here, since legendary dwarves are exempt from the economy and continue living large without any interferance from the nobles.

Private bedrooms are key. In addition to the happy thought that dwarves get from sleeping in a place that's theirs, having their own place with their own chest and cabinet will stave off unhappy thoughts they get from not having a place to store their acquisitions. You may also consider installing a table and chair in each bedroom; happy thoughts on par with or better than 'legendary dining room' are gained from eating at a high-quality table that the dwarf owns. Be sure that you have a lot of affordable housing; 300☼ is all the more most joe-dwarves with steady work can afford before they are evicted.

A high-quality recreational pursuit is very important. The easiest is probably a statue garden. Mine or import a chunk of native platinum or native aluminum (native aluminum is better for importing), and build a private mason's workshop for your best mason. Move the ore to a stockpile right outside the mason's workshop and provide enough doors to lock the mason in. Order a stone statue built and wait for your mason to respond. Your mason will bring an ordinary stone to the workshop. Once he is in the workshop, pause, lock the doors, and lift the restrictions on the platinum/aluminum nuggets as an economic stone. Order a few more statues built until your mason makes a statue with the ore. You now have an extremely high value platinum/aluminum statue (worth about 3000☼). Place the statue in its own room and flank it with the plain rock statues that your mason made. Then, make a sculpture garden room centered on the platinum/aluminum statue. Your dwarves will now come in to admire the 'completely sublime, tastefully arranged Statue', which can take them from unhappy to ecstatic in one fell swoop.

Another thing you may consider is getting your dwarves pets. Assigning trained war [[dog]]s to peasants makes the peasant adopt them as a pet, which not only makes them more safe from goblin attacks while they are milling about outside, it also gives them an instant happy thought if they ever become unhappy ('comforted by a beloved pet recently'). The downside, of course, is that if the war dog ever has to lay down its life for its master, the dwarf will become very upset, and doubly upset if you don't have the tombs to lay the pet to rest.

Making catacombs is another good way to provide some stability to your fortress. Unlike bedrooms, dwarves do not have to pay for thier own tombs, and get a yearly happy thought from them that lasts almost a whole season. Catacombs are also fairly easy to furnish, requiring little more than coffins and engravings. Some [[statues]] can also be good if you are going that route. Be sure to allot some coffins for pet burial, too; dwarves are just as upset about their pets dying as they are about their friends. It's best not to compound the problem by letting pets rot.

[[Cave adaptation]] creates some powerful unhappy feelings (as powerful as the thought from a legendary dining room). Unfortunately, making a greenhouse that is indoors and lighted will NOT fight cave adaptation. Your only bet is to make a walled-in meeting hall on the surface, preferably above the ground z level so attacking goblins have no chance of getting in. Decorate it lavishly so your dwarves have something to counteract the unhappy thoughts in a controlled manner. Do NOT, under any circumstances, make your main meeting hall indoor/lighted/aboveground by making its roof a bunch of Floor constructions. This will make that area forbidden when "Dwarves stay indoors" is on and make controlling your civilians during a siege much harder.

Keep people busy. Not having enough work to do will induce an unhappy thought, and idlers will make friends very quickly. An unhappy dwarf that tantrums will spread his unhappiness to all his friends when he is imprisoned or killed, and that is how death spirals start. You should never have more than 5-10 people idle at any one time (for hauling duties).

Nobles need their own quarter away from everything because they get the unhappy thoughts about their 'lessers' pretentious lodgings'. Integrating them into normal society is too much of a pain to bother with. Plus making a designated noble's quarter means they're easier to kill if the need arises. As far as can be determined right now, the Tax Collector, Hammerer, and Dungeon Master all consider themselves fairly equal, while the Baron/Count/Duke and consorts consider themselves a step up, with the King/Queen and consort a step above that. Build four 3x3 rooms for each low rung noble (bedroom, office, dining room, tomb), 7 slightly larger (3x4, 4x4, your call) rooms for the second rung (2 bedrooms, 2 dining rooms, 2 tombs, 1 office. The consort does not require an office), and 7 still larger rooms for the king/queen and consort (again, 2 bedrooms, 2 dining rooms, 2 tombs, 1 office). Turn off all engravers except for your one best one for engraving; engravings are extremely variable in impressiveness so you need to keep the worker constant and count on the fact that the rooms are larger to keep the net wealth from engravings from varying too much. Finally, if you really want to keep your nobles stupidly happy, dig out a 1x2 area near their bed, smooth it, and place an Aluminum or Platinum statue next to a stone statue (import aluminum from the dwarven caravan if you can't find any. It's only about 250 for some nuggets and it's much lighter than platinum). Make sure the statues are a part of the bedroom. The noble will now admire his 'own completely sublime tastefully arranged statue' every time he wakes up, for a massive mood spike that can take a dwarf from unhappy to ecstatic.

==Dwarven economics==
This topic encompasses effective trading.

===Fortress startup===
Your first year in the fortress is likely to be really sparse on trading. You won't have much to trade, and the dwarven caravan doesn't know your requests, so it's unlikely to be terribly helpful, anyway.

[[Prepared meal]]s are the trade good of choice for many fortresses: a tall stack of high-quality roasts can be worth 5,000☼ or more, depending on your cook's skill. Don't trade away meals unless you have a substantial food surplus, however; no amount of trade goods is worth a fortress of hungry dwarves. (Trading prepared meals in exchange for a larger quantity of cheaper foods is just fine, though.)

After your first immigrant wave arrives, you can concentrate on some specific trade goods. Stonecrafters are best for this, as they can produce crafts, mugs, and toys very quickly with the spare stone lying around.

There are a few things you should almost always be maxing out your requests for:
* Wood. Whether it be above-ground logs from the human caravan or tower-cap logs from the dwarven caravan, they will happily bring anywhere from 20 to 40 logs per visit and sell them for a mere 6☼ apiece. The less you have to touch your own trees, the better you will be able to react to a sudden demand for wood, and not chopping down trees keeps the [[elves]] from whining too much.
* Barrels. Again to decrease your demand for domestic wood. You need barrels to store food and booze, and you can get a 10 or so normal-quality barrels per caravan for 20☼ apiece quite easily. Be warned, the humans have a tendency to bring ones that have been decorated with expensive gems and so on, and those are not smart buys.
* Dogs. More dogs = more war animals. Better security, more pets for dwarves, at only 70☼ apiece. Plus, you get to keep the cages they come in!
* Fuel. Charcoal from both the human and dwarven caravans, and liginite and bituminous coal from the dwarven caravan. You will not get that much of this, but it will be enough to keep up with basic demands for metal items, and is sold for a pittance when you consider how costly it is in terms of labor to produce fuel. Even if you have magma, you'll want to request it so you have something to use for steel production.

The only reason you should not be maxing requests for these items is if the demand is totally saturated: a full stockpile of 100+ wood, no place to put any more empty barrels, a war dog on every dwarf in the fortress, etc. The cost you pay to the benefit you get is just too fantastic to pass up.

Past that, you may want to consider some conditional buying:
* [[Flux]] stone from the dwarven caravan. This will be critical to making steel if you don't have flux on your map. Unrefined stone is very cheap, but because of the weight of the rock you won't get too much of it.
* [[Silk]] cloth. This is commonly requested by [[strange mood]]s and your chances of being able to produce it yourself are almost nil. Buy only [[cave spider]] silk cloth early on. The giant cave spider variety is almost 10 times more expensive, which is great if you want massive value artifacts, but you've got bigger fish to fry this early on. In addition, you can turn a tidy profit by turning most of your silk cloth into socks. Socks are made in pairs, each worth at least 60☼ for a plain silk sock.
* [[Bauxite]] from the dwarven caravan, if you're needing magma-safe stone components.

There's also a number of things that make good one-time buys. Seed bags are cheap and come with enough seeds to start a thriving crop of the associated plant. Plus, you get to keep the bag. You will need to buy your first anvil from the caravans if you did not bring one, too. You may decide to put this off for a couple years, until you have more dwarves and can get into advanced trading.

===Advanced trading===
A larger fort has a few new ways to make money on the menu:
* [[Mechanism]]s. [[Item quality|Masterwork]] mechanisms made from obsidian or a [[flux]] stone can sell for as much as 1,080☼. Mechanisms are easy to produce and are already needed in your fortress. However, they are fairly heavy, requiring you to manage weight issues, especially when trading with the [[elves]]. Buy out any high-weight, low-cost items the traders have at the beginning of trading and you should be okay. Use high-value stone and a high-skill mechanic and weight will become a non-issue.
* [[Bone]] goods. Bone carvers are useful any time you have a half-decent hunter, and can be stellar under certain circumstances. You want a high-skill bone carver for producing bolts and armor, and if your map has certain high-value exotic creatures (ogres, unicorns, trolls, etc.), a stack of bolts made from their bones can be worth hundreds or even thousands. A stack of 100 masterwork dragon or hydra bone bolts is worth ''60,000☼''. [[Totem]]s made from of the skulls of exotic creatures are also worth quite a bit, as are their hides, meat, and fat, if they are butcherable.
* [[Clothing]]. [[Dimple cup]]s provide a dye when milled, which can be used to drastically increase the finished value of finished cloth goods. You can also sew images (whether leather, or more cloth) into the clothing to increase it further. Merchants will love it, and your dwarves will want new clothes as the economy kicks in, too. The downside is that this approach is labor intensive, requiring a thresher, weaver, miller, dyer, clothier, and maybe a leatherworker or another clothier to pull off. Still, in larger fortresses, there's usually plenty of labor to spare. You can also cut the thresher and weaver out of the equation by simply importing the raw cloth you want to use.
* Captured equipment. [[Goblin]] attacks will usually leave your store rooms awash in captured goblin equipment. Goblins often wear [[giant cave spider]] clothing, which sells very well. You can sew images into the cloth, and stud the metal equipment with bone or shell, to increase their trading value and 'naturalize' them, making them acceptable to offer to caravans for good will.
* [[Armor]] or [[weapon]]s. If you are trying to train up a high-skill [[armorsmith]] or [[weaponsmith]], you will have to create hundreds of items. What better way to get rid of them than to trade them? For trading and training purposes, silver is the best metal to use. Silver has a value multiplier of ×10, making a masterpiece silver weapon worth 1200☼, and silver has little utility except for trading anyway. For armor, low boots are best; they are comparatively light and are produced in pairs, effectively doubling their value. If you have [[cassiterite]] in your fortress, train your armorsmith using [[bronze]] (or better still, [[bismuth bronze]]). But even [[copper]] has a good enough price-to-weight ratio to be worth trading. An added advantage of armor and weapons is that traders usually put a premium on one or more types of them. Note what specific types they want when forging your [[trade agreement]]s and you can further double the value you receive for them.

As your fortress grows, you will have a large enough economic engine to eliminate the unproductive parts of your products' life cycles. Leather and cloth, especially, are very cheap to buy en-masse. 10 units of leather, plus the bin they came in, sells for 150-200☼ on caravans. 10 units of plant fiber cloth, plus the bin they came in, sells for 400☼. The best part is that humans and dwarves will usually bring 50 to 80 units of both cloth and leather per trip without you requesting it, letting you get cut rates on the merchandise. Note, however, that the plant fiber cloth tends to be of relatively low quality, which puts a legendary weaver to waste. However, the fact that you get so much cloth, plus a durable, always-useful [[bin]], probably overrides this.

With so much economic muscle in your fortress, you shouldn't be scared of making extravagant or lazy requests of traders. Aluminum nuggets are always useful for spiking the wealth of your fortress and making ridiculously elaborate tombs or meeting halls. Request mining picks instead of making them yourself. Demand various animals you don't have any of to populate zoos. Ask for [[pearlash]] and [[rock crystal]] to make [[crystal glass]]. Too lazy to mine for gems? Just ask for them. Large dwarven fortresses have the ability to kick out huge amounts of wealth. Ask for exotic metal bars like [[rose gold]] just because they look cool. By this point, you are officially rich. Act like it! If you're impressed with your fortress, your dwarves probably will be, too.

==Fortress Defense==

Please see the [[Military]] page and the ones like it for more details on this.

{{Starting FAQ}}
[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Adamantine

2009-02-08T01:55:28Z

Mithra: Added to Spoilers Category

{{minorspoiler}}
{{Metal|color=#0FF|bgcolor=#0CC|name=Adamantine|
|ore=
* [[Raw adamantine]]
|properties=
* [[Damage]]% 500
* [[Armor|Block]]% 500
* [[Material value]] 300
|uses=
* [[Weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Armor]]
* [[Anvil]]s
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
* [[Clothing]]
}}

'''Adamantine''' is by far the most rare and valuable [[metal]] in the game. It can only be found in mountainous areas, and only in small amounts. Care should be taken if it is found, since digging down several levels through it will lead you to the [[demon]] pits. After you reach the [[Glowing pits|pits]], a horde of demons will eventually be loosed on your fortress. These demons are very powerful and can wipe out even a mature, heavily defended fortress.

Discovery of adamantine will also bring the attention of the [[King]], who will immigrate to your fortress once news of your discovery reaches him. If you have not otherwise met the criteria for attracting the King, he will arrive "disguised as a peasant." His requirements appears to be the same in any case, so be prepared!

== Location ==

To start in a location which has adamantine (and the accompanying demon pits), you must start on a mountain tile ({{Raw Tile|∆|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|∆|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#C0C0C0|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#00FFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#00FFFF|#000000}}) or volcano tile ({{Raw Tile|^|#FF0000|#000000}}) in the Region map. The adamantine and pits will be located somewhere within the Local map of that region. It is more likely to be found on a Local map square which also shows as mountain. The adamantine will occupy only one Local square, though the demon pits may extend beyond it.

Deposits are not visible on the Region/World maps or the Local maps by default, but can be turned visible by setting SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER to ALWAYS in init.txt, in which case they appear as {{tile|£|#0FF}} on the local embark map.

==Veining==
Curiously, adamantine veins tend to span z-levels more than the xy planes. Finding a short section of adamantine only 2x1 or 3x1, dig up or down a z-level and you'll probably find another short section.
To view examples of this phenomenon, check out the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-2837-addyveinstotallyz-spanning DFMA Point of Interest] and [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-290-z-leveladamantinevein a movie] recording the layout of a vein.

== Processing ==

Adamantine strands are extracted from [[raw adamantine]] at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]]. The [[strand extraction]] labor must be enabled for a dwarf to perform the extraction. The process is extremely slow for an unskilled laborer. Adamantine strands are worth 1800☼ each, while the raw adamantine is worth 750.

Subsequent processing of the strands requires no adamantine-specific skills or labor permissions. Adamantine strands are processed into adamantine wafers at any [[smelter]]. Adamantine wafers are worth 1500☼ each - curiously, less than the strands they are smelted from. Adamantine wafers are treated much like [[bar]]s of other metal, and can be forged into a variety of useful items. Adamantine strands may also be woven into cloth using the Weave Metal Cloth task in a [[loom]]. Adamantine strands may be dyed, but if they are melted into wafers the they will return to their normal color and value.

Forging things out of adamantine requires a number of wafers equal to item's MATERIAL_SIZE. This is usually about three times as many as are needed for constructions with bars of other metals, since one metal bar counts for 3 MATERIAL_SIZE. For instance, plate mail has [MATERIAL_SIZE:9] and normally requires three metal bars to forge; adamantine plate mail requires nine adamantine wafers. Helm has [MATERIAL_SIZE:2] and normally requires one metal bar to forge; adamantine helm requires two adamantine wafers.

==Uses==
Adamantine is so valuable that a special message pops up when you discover a vein of it.

[[Image:000006 - Praise the miners!.png||500px]]

Raw adamantine may also be processed into [[stone]] goods in the same way as other economic stone. In its raw form, it has a [[Item value|value multiplier]] of x250 (as opposed to adamantine metal, which is x300). Raw adamantine blocks are worth 1250☼.

Adamantine items are incredibly light: they weigh about 2.5% as much as an equivalent article crafted from iron. [[Weapon]]s and [[armor]] made from adamantine are 5 times stronger than equivalent [[iron]] objects.

Adamantine is one of the few [[magma-safe]] materials. Raw adamantine is the only [[stone]], aside from [[bauxite]], that can be used to make magma-safe [[mechanism]]s. (To do this, you must lift the [[economic stone|restrictions]] on its use via the Stone submenu of the [[status]] screen.) Mechanisms can also be made from a single{{verify}} adamantine wafer at a [[forge]] or [[magma forge]], under "trap components" -- this cannot be done with any other metal.

==Storage==
Raw Adamantine is stored in stone stockpiles with "Raw Adamantine" enabled in that stockpile's 'other stone' category.

However once strands are extracted, they are stored in a cloth pile. It is unfortunately impossible to segregate adamantine from plant fiber and silk cloth, because all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal products as far as the game is concerned, and adamantine does not appear as a thread/cloth type in the cloth custom stockpile menu.

Wafers are stored in bar/block piles with adamantine enabled. All other goods can be stored in any stockpile with the adamantine metal enabled.

[[Category:Metals]]
[[Category:Economic Stone]]
[[Category:Spoilers]]

40d:Fortress defense

2009-02-08T01:47:32Z

Mithra: Not a stub

{{Image Rules Notice}}
There are two important things to consider when designing defenses for your fortress. First, you must protect the fortress itself. Second, protecting your [[dwarves]] is also often a priority. These two goals can often be rather divergent, as without careful planning your dwarves may wander the open countryside to collect herbs, cut trees, hunt, fish, or otherwise just enjoy nature, and while outside your fortress are vulnerable.

==Entrance design and traps==

You can help your soldiers a great deal by sensible entrance design and use of [[trap]]s and [[siege engine]]s. Simple approaches include clustering [[Trap|stone fall traps]] or [[Trap|cage traps]] in your entrance. More care is needed when placing [[ballista]]s or [[catapult]]s as they can hurt your dwarves too. Below are some example designs of more elaborate possibilities.

===Fortification based entrance designs===
Keep in mind that the entrance to defensive chokepoints should be outside. If you try to set up your defense somewhat underground, ordering your dwarves to stay inside has the result that your carefully designed 'kill zone' will be chock full of your own dwarves at the critical moment.

This particular design works well with plenty of archers, siege engines, and other ranged weaponry.
*<tt>╬</tt> - fortification
*<tt> </tt> - pit (filled with spikes, [[water]], [[magma]], whatever you prefer)
*<tt>+</tt> - Floor
*<tt>1</tt> - Bridge 1 (over pit)
*<tt>2</tt> - Bridge 2 (over pit)
*<tt>3</tt> - Bridge 3 (over pit)
*<tt>═</tt> - Wall
*<tt>@</tt> - Your ranged stuff here
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|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|║|+|+|@|╬|\|3|3|3|\|╬|@|+}}
The 3 tile wide lane is for traders, so if you have your [[trade depot]] before this,
cut it down to a 1 tile lane to slow down invaders more.
Retract [[bridge]] 1 to force invaders to take the long way, for maximum exposure to your ranged units.
Bridges 2 and 3 can be put down to allow more enemies into this pit entrance, then retracted again to trap them again.

=== The "Inverse Battlement" design ===

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Note that in this diagram, the fortress interior is to the West, and the enemy forces come from the East. Furthermore, it is somewhat stylized - the dwarves on the bridge with the [[fortification]]s are one level above the [[goblin]]s and [[troll]]s and such. One by one, they fall as soon as they pass this "bridge" (which is one level above), as the marksdwarves wait in ambush. For extra safety, hollow this tunnel out to the mountain, upwards into the sky (so it counts as "surface" and Dwarfs can "stay inside"). The bridge part can then be made out of construction, as soldiers can be ordered to go outside anyway.

If you're feeling especially nasty, make the tunnel really long into the mountain and build a [[ballista]] behind some fortifications. In my current version of the fortress, the goblins have to cross a long series of drawbridges to even get inside the mountain, so the ballista dwarf gets a lot of shots, and I can launch any escaping troops into the air.

===Flooded entrance===
Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two levers, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[Gear assembly|gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup. One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever. Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with [[water]] or [[magma]] for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

===Siege weapons===
One effective way to have seige weapons defend your fortress is:

*<tt>+</tt> - floor
*<tt>═</tt> - wall
*<tt>▼</tt> - ramp
*<tt> </tt> - channel
*<tt>╬</tt> - fortification

{{qd|cols=30
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╦|═|═|═
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|║|▐|▀|{{qd/ch{{!}}\{{!}}CCC}}
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Using this design you can cripple an army using a well timed volley.

===Tar Baby===
Enemies will hunt down and kill friendly tame animals wandering outside if they have nothing better to do. Put a puppy on a chain in some random spot outside, build a few columns around it to reduce the chance of them shooting it, and trap that area to hell and back.

==Defending your dwarves==

The best way to prevent dwarves outside from being ambushed and slaughtered by hostile creatures is to keep them from going outside. Unfortunately, there are valuable commodities like wood which are hard to acquire inside.

The next best thing is to provide defenses which protect your dwarves while outside. On the truly labor intensive end, you can fully enclose areas of wilderness you wish to utilize in walls or behind moats with the only access being from within your base. While faster, the moat is less effective because it can be seen over, and unless the area beyond the moat also has no access to any entrance to the fortress (and no dwarves) you will still be vulnerable to archers. Hostile creatures, even 'invisible' ones like ambushers, start at map edges and travel across the map - they will only spawn in regions where they can path to a dwarf. By controlling which areas have access to paths to dwarves, you can force all hostile forces to appear in predictable and limited areas. Basically, creating artificially constrained outdoors areas for dwarves to work in is like keeping your dwarves inside - you're only vulnerable while establishing the defense system, afterward its part of the fortress for most purposes.

Another options for outside defenses is scattered traps. Most hostile forces will flee if they take enough casualties, and stone-fall traps can be quite damaging to goblins and are easy to set up. Cage traps work even on [[Bronze colossus|Bronze Colossi]] and [[Dragon]]s. You just have to make sure your dwarves working outside actually stay near your traps - a fisherdwarf who goes wandering screens away from the nearest trap is not protected.

[[Dog|War dogs]] can also be assigned to dwarves who go outside frequently. Then when the dwarf encounters danger, the war dog runs at the danger while the dwarf runs away from it. Unfortunately, war dogs can't be reassigned once they are assigned. To get around this, have the dwarf you want to be guarded train the dog. (Dogs follow the one who trained them until they are assigned.)

Finally, a sufficiently large military could be used as a reactive force to rescue ambushed dwarves. The disadvantages are many - soldiers must physically move to the conflict zone which may be many screens away from the nearest entrance to your fortress, by which point dwarven lives may have already been lost. And while squad organization may make ordering a large army easier, a squad commander who is sleeping, eating, or drinking prevents his entire squad from responding. At best, an army should be considered supplemental for defending dwarves outside your fortress.

==Armed civilians==

Sometime you will embark in an area devoid of (huntable) wildlife.
In that case, you can turn on the hunting skill for all civilians and use the [m]ilitary menu to arm (and more importantly, armor and shield) them. Normally turning on hunting will cause dwarves to wander outside looking for wildlife, and turning it on on all your dwarves would delay your economy greatly. But without wildlife, no hunting jobs are generated.

[[Human]] trader: "Please, do not kill us, just take our goods and let us go!

[[Mayor]]: "Kill you? We've just come to trade with your caravan."

Human trader: "Why is it, then, that you have us surrounded by 200 soldiers the moment we arrive?"

Mayor: "They're not soldiers. They're civilians."

Human trader: "Civilians, eh? Civilians clad in full steel and armed to the teeth. You expect me to believe that? Come on you sadist, just get it over with and kill us now."

Mayor: "We're... [[Hunter]]s."

Human trader: "Hunters. Right. You know as well as I do that nothing bigger than a [[fluffy wambler]] lives in these lands.

Mayor: "Yes. That is... very convenient!"

==Armed Civilians (Gobbo Season Open!==
It can be a fairly decent idea to keep mass numbers of cheaply-made crossbows and bolts on hand and all expendable dwarves in one mass military squad set to use crossbows (and leather armor, if you have enough). What dabbling marksdwarves lack in speed and accuracy, they more than make up for with incredible enthusiasm, as a hailstorm of pathetically-aimed bolts will tear over anything stupid enough to move. Not really as useful as properly-emplaced marksdwarves with high skill, but a good emergency measure, especially if you keep your craftsdwarves busy churning out cheap ammo.

== See also ==
* [[Defense guide]] for a complete guide

[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:Design]]

User:Mithra

2009-02-08T01:39:35Z

Mithra: New page: Mithra here. Carry on.

Mithra here. Carry on.

40d Talk:Trap

2008-08-17T00:49:45Z

Mithra: /* Trap betreyals? */

== Cage traps clarification ==

I think I know the answer, but are ANY sort of cages suitable for trapping any kind of invading monster (except those that evade traps altogether, such as kobalds). The page mentions a glass trap catching a colossus, but will that also apply to a rickety wooden trap? I haven't produced any glass. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. I've had a bronze colossus trapped in an Ashen Cage before. I don't think creatures care what you trap them in.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== cage traps for food ==
Couldn't one generate a mild supplementary food source by putting cage traps out on the map at random? Or create rows of them to catch aggressive creatures that are chasing down a fleeing dwarf. The ability to place them on the surface has some interesting possibilities. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 04:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)

: You can really do this with any kind of trap now - I built a 1 tile wide stair/corridor up an exposed cliff face, and as I was concerned about goblins and the like I stonefall-trapped it. Ever since then some of the local wildlife has used it to get up and down the 5 z-level cliff, with predictable and hilarious results. The goats just die, but the marmots are hurled off the cliff face to splatter on the ground below. It's a nice easy meat/leather/fat source, as well as being entertaining "Dwarfy McDwarf cancels reload stone trap - interrupted by (flying) hoary marmot" [[User:Acama|Acama]] 19:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==berserk dwarves==
Will berserk dwarves set off pressure plates? Toady mentioned he was going to stop that from happening [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On a possibly related note, pets CAN set off traps. Although in my experience the pet has to be falling unconscious to do so. [[User:Anonymousphrase|Anonymousphrase]] 22:43, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

[[image:Pet_setting_off_trap.png]]

It may also be the case that you can also get pets killed by a trap if they're in the square when a hostile sets off the trap. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 12:42, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

==flooding a spiked pit==
Will flooding a spiked pit break or cancel the spike trap? I'd test this, but I don't have the channel dug in yet. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:confirmed that flooding doesn't affect spear/spike traps. [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 17:52, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure the "corpse stuck in trap" chance is 50%, according to Toady either on IRC or some forgotten forum post a few months back. I really can't remember for sure. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:31, 10 November 2007 (EST)

==cage traps/ fire imps==
I've secured the entries oy my magma furnaces with cage traps, but it seems that the fire imps just walk through.
Just as the Giant moles did. How so? --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
:supposedly there is a bug that causes any creatures on the map when it is generated to count as residents, and thus know where your traps are and not trigger them. I've never run into the problem myself, but I've never specifically tested for it so I can't really say for sure if it still exists (or ever did). --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 07:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:I had read about this and tried it out with a trapped coridoor next to my magma vent - an imp I tempted out walked right through 4 cage traps and 4 stonefall traps without triggering them. Seems like indigenous life is currently trap-immune. Most magma creatures can be dealt with by a few marksdwarves though, so you're only in serious trouble if you have a herd of skeletal hippos on your map on embark.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 15:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::There's always the menacing spike + lever combo. And pits. [[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 16:08, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've killed fire imps and magmamen with stone fall traps --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:20, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've caught native fire imps in cage traps loaded with green glass terrariums. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 21:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

==Trolls and Cages==
I'm planning on making the only passage to my fortress filled with cage traps, but I'm not sure if dwarves going out and migrants and traders coming in will be affected by them. Does anyone know? Also, do trolls smash goblin cages? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Only hostile units will trigger traps. Trolls only smash buildings and after a goblin is captured the cage is not built. So the answer to your second question is no. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 21:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Make sure to forbid the traps when the siege starts. Otherwise your dwarves will rush out to reload them and store all the cages. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:53, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Thieves and trap avoidance==
Is it possible that Kobold thieves/Goblin master thieves can also trigger traps? I think I killed one and caged another master thief in the past. Maybe the quality of the mechanism is important here? --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:goblin thieves, both regular and master, have always triggered traps -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:18, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

::So why does the article then say "Sneaking enemies do not trigger traps"? Goblin master thieves seem very sneaky to me. --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:33 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:::once goblin thieves are revealed they are captured fine. even revealed kobolds dont trigger. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: At least "normal" goblin thieves are scewered fine without being detected, says my weapon trap --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: I have to agree with Koltom, I got an "Ambush" event when a goblin (master) thief went into a cage trap, and had another one cut to pieces by a serrated disc, which I only noticed when suddenly all my dwarves rushed off to remove his clothes. --[[User Quertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:31 (UTC+1)
:::: Weapon traps apparently have a chance of friendly fire. At least, that's what the ghost of my Kitten(tame) told me... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 18:48, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== Crossbow Trap? ==

How does a crossbow trap work? Does it have line of sight, like a Dwarf? {{Unsigned|Lordmick134}}

Ranged weapons in weapon traps work much the same as melee weapons do, attacking the creature which triggered the trap. The only real difference in functionality seems to be that they require and use up appropriate ammunition, and (according to the article) do not get occasionally stuck and need cleaning like melee weapons in a weapon trap do. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 21:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trapping cave dwellers ==

Has anyone sucessfully caged a cave dwelling megabeast? I have tried on two seperate maps to capture a minotaur and an ettin, both times the monster just run right through the cage traps. Perhaps creatures that are spawned on embark are bugged immune to traps?

==Weapon Trap Jamming==
The page says crossbow weapon traps don't jam, but what about a trap with a crossbow and a melee weapon? Does the crossbow still fire if the trap jams? Or does a trap have to be pure crossbows to avoid jamming? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:21, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

== Trap betrayals? ==

Has anyone else been betrayed by their own traps? I had a dog and a crossbowman killed by weapons traps. Serrated iron disks ripped through their bodies like the bloody tusks of enraged elephants.

Correction. A dog, a crossbowman, and a miner. Will the slaughter never end?--[[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 12:08, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed that traps tend to fire on people/animals with injuries. They've killed lots of 3 legged dogs for me, and a soldier that was dragging himself off the field.

: Traps will (also) trip for any and all unconscious individuals. That may be or be one of the reasons. [[User:Drawf irons|Drawf irons]] 20:53, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

::Does that include dead individuals? And is it possible to get my dead dog out of his cage? --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 01:32, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Mark it for dumping? That's usually the solution as to how to get anything out of anywhere! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:34, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Trap Question ==

I recently received the message that there was a goblin snatcher in my fortress. It zoomed the page to one of the 3 cage traps. I took the game off pause and it gave me the same message again. Now I have two cave traps sprung, and when I press "k" and go over them, one says : "goblin cage (Larch)" and the other says "Goblin cage(nickel)". Does this mean I have successfully caught the scoundrels? Or are they still at large?

:If there is a flashing 'g' then yes, if no than It could be possibly a bug.[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:25, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Stone Fall Update: Watch Out!! ==

This is as of release '''0.28.181.39f''': in the past hour I saw two of my own dwarves - both normal healthy members of society - get killed in two different stone fall traps I'd had set up. Clearly, the old rule that dwarves are immune to their own traps is no longer entirely accurate...unless there's a bug going on here? Has anyone else fallen prey to this occurrence? [[User:Grand marquis|Grand marquis]] 06:31, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

:See two sections up. :P Anything unconscious will trigger traps currently - did those dwarves fall asleep on the trap square maybe? I've changed the section on triggering traps, so it gives at least a little hint that backfiring is now possible! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:33, 16 August 2008 (EDT)