Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Alcohol

2010-06-14T15:30:35Z

Libelnon:

This page could probably be upgraded to [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|Exceptional Quality]] as soon as someone verifies that the drink values haven't changed. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 16:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

== dwarves not drinking ==

Since the dwarves take longer before drinking (and will become drowsy before sleeping, and hungry before eating) many dwarves will have the blue warning arrow saying they are thirsty. Therefore it's not obvious that your settlement has run out of alcohol and has no viable water source, until people start dying.

:I've had dwarves dying of thirst from simply refusing to drink clean water. If you haven't set up a water source or a well, dwarves seem to take even longer to decide they want a drink. I learnt that at the price of my legendary weaponsmith. --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 15:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Alcohol

2010-06-14T15:30:21Z

Libelnon:

v0.31 Talk:Cheese

2010-06-14T15:21:04Z

Libelnon:

==Changes in the Cheese Industry==
Supposedly, cows can now be milked. From this I infer other creatures can as well. Can anyone verify what creatures are milkable?

Cow cheese is worth 50,
Donkey 50,
Horse 50,
etc.

In other words, common cheeses are worth much less / very little now in the food industry. A table needs to be made, but I don't know of all of the available cheeses yet.

Toady also mentioned that dwarves should not eat purring maggots so frequently now. Can anyone verify this?

== Don't cook the milk ==
Confirmed that, unlike 40d, milk will still be made into cheese if cooking of milk is turned off in the kitchen z-menu. Hoo-ray! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:16, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

== Purring Maggots should exist ==

In a devlog entry, Toady mentioned that dwarves were eating purring maggots. This likely means the biome still exists. --[[Special:Contributions/174.113.156.80|174.113.156.80]] 17:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

The issue isn't about existence it's about biome. There are no more chasms or bottomless pits. Purring Maggots only occur in a now non-existent biomes. Thus, you don't see them. --[[Special:Contributions/76.188.109.43|76.188.109.43]] 18:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
:They do still appear, the same way that cave spiders still appear despite having the same biome tags. [SUBTERRANEAN:CHASM] doesn't mean the same thing that it used to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 02:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you can still spot them in the caverns. --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 15:21, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Helmet snake

2010-05-04T14:57:31Z

Libelnon:

''"Eating the poison itself, counterintuitively, is also perfectly safe, due to the way the game handles poisons."''
This could make more sense than it seems. The poison causes necrotosis, therefore would require to be in the muscle tissue or bloodstream. The dwarven digestive system could contain an acid strong enough to dissolve the poison, or the mucous lining of the stomach and digestive tract could be strong enough to repel the poison.
And yes. I am starting a disscussion over dwarven anatomy. --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 10:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
::Since we're being pedantic, why not point out that even though it makes a certain amount of sense, once thought about, the fact that "eating the poison... is perfectly safe" is still counterintuitive, as one's intuition would be to keep it out of contact with one's critters entirely. BAM! You got '''logic'd!''' --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 11:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Ah, but then you get snake charmers who drink snake venom quite often with no ill effects. In fact, it's apparently a good source of protein. --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 14:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

User:Libelnon

2010-05-03T16:15:50Z

Libelnon:

User:Libelnon

2010-04-27T10:03:59Z

Libelnon:

v0.31 Talk:Helmet snake

2010-04-27T10:03:12Z

Libelnon: Created page with '''"Eating the poison itself, counterintuitively, is also perfectly safe, due to the way the game handles poisons."'' This could make more sense than it seems. The poison causes n…'

User:Libelnon

2010-03-30T18:08:04Z

Libelnon:

User:Libelnon

2010-03-27T22:56:45Z

Libelnon:

Talk:Tileset repository

2010-03-27T22:47:55Z

Libelnon:

==Tilesets requiring edited raws==

I'm noticing more and more tilesets on the list which require edited raws, in most cases they require the raws from DFG. Shouldn't those be separated to prevent confusion among newbies? They are likely to try these tilesets with an unmodded DF and get frustrated. --[[User:Mikemayday|Mikemayday]] 00:07, 21 September 2009 (GMT)
:I agree, those heavily edited tilesets should be seperated, preferably with a link to the matching raws. --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 10:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks Mike for doing this, this explains some of the confusion I had with others (I knew yours required RAW mining, but not the others.) My only problem is that many of the others don't seem to have any explanation of which RAWs to change. Anyone know of any links? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 14:15, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

== Mac user ==

Can these tilesets be used on a mac as well?

* Yes. I'm using them right now. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 19:12, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Tiny tilesests ==

<blockquote>
''Sets smaller than 8x8. Used for playing in tiny windows, '''display of massive maps''' and perhaps videos.''
</blockquote>

I thought it wasnt possible to change the size of the map (number of tiles rendered on screen), am I wrong or does the author mean display of maps '''outside''' the game? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 21:09, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:I imagine the only current use is in exporting bitmaps from the game. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 15:30, 14 November 2007 (EST)
::I've used one of 'em to hide a DF window on my work computer, and they're fun to use at 4x size,too. But yeah, they make real nice maps. --[[User:Maus|Maus]] 09:10, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:::Note that it's now possible to change the 80x25 in the init file.--[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 19:13, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Can anyone say PocketPC Dwarf Fortress? I imagine with a low popcap and a 3x3 or less area, it wouldn't be too bad on most PDAs out there. Now, if only someone would port the code... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:40, 8 January 2008 (EST)

== Page Split ==

There are too many character sets on this one page, I propose splitting the page into twopages:
* one for 'classic' code page 437 fonts/glyph sets/character sets with no graphical characters whatsoever
* one for 'semigraphical' character sets which have one or more of the normal glyphs replaced with a df-specific graphic (a barrel instead of the division sign, for instance) - [[User:Lord Nightmare|Lord Nightmare]] 19:18, 9 December 2007 (EST)

:I disagree; there's no reason to split content into two different areas when it's already easily comparable and all in one place. --[[User:Maus|Maus]] 09:12, 18 December 2007 (EST)

== Why png? ==

If they all have to be resaved as bmp, why the heck are they uploaded as png? These are small files, you're not saving significant disk or bandwidth by keeping them in png. This is particularly irritating since I can't seem to get any of these to work even after resaving/converting them -.- --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 14:14, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:If you're not just renaming the files, then your problem isn't with the files being .png format. Making an exception to [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|Rule I]] would only cause confusion as there are many images that are quite large indeed. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:32, 20 February 2008 (EST)

::No, it's not just a rename, I'm going into GIMP and doing a Save as... The file size changes, so it's doing SOMETHING, but when I go to use the font the screen comes up blank (but if I hit down twice and enter, I still exit, so everything works, there's just no display.) I hadn't seen the style guide/list, however, so that's fair enough. I'll post on the message boards and see if I can troubleshoot there. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 16:58, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:::Simple solution: Open the image in MSPaint and save as a 24-bit BMP. If you don't have Windows, then you should have enough computer savvy to do it in whatever program you choose.
:::Also, bmps cannot be uploaded to the wiki.
:::Furthermore, we do actually save significant page size. If those were all bitmaps, that would be a few megabytes, which is annoying to load. Converting to png makes it only a couple hundred kilobytes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:59, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

== Length, and how we can decrease it ==

This page is the twelfth longest page in the wiki. Ten of the eleven pages longer than it are lists. It has forty tilesets, less than a third of which are at all good. This is obviously a problem – sludging through all forty of those is not at all fun and, for most of it, not at all useful. 
As a fix, I propose that we copy this page to "Full list of user character sets" and keep only the best fifteen (or maybe ten or maybe twenty) here. Of course, that brings up the difficult question "how do we determine which tilesets are best?" To determine that, we could try getting as many DF players as we can to tell us which tileset(s) they use. Of course, that would need some rules, a forum thread, etc. 
I'll write more about this later, assuming that some interest exists. The time is late and sleepiness impedes thought. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:53, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

:To solve [[User:Nunix|Nunix's]] '''Why png?''' problem and to determine the popularity, I suggest we upload all tilesets to [http://dffd.wimbli.com/index.php Dwarf Fortress File Depot] in .bmp format (so nobody have to convert images from .png anymore). Dwarf Fortress File Depot has download trackers for all its downloads. The end of the week, we can determine the 15 most popular based on the download count. Anybody interested can compare the download numbers and edit the 15 best list for the wiki anytime they feel like it to keep it updated often.
:The current tileset Template will need a '''download''' bit added to it as well. [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 17:01, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

::That could work...
::*downloads his tileset fifty times*
::I don't think it would work at all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:59, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

::What about making one sub page per tile set. Classify each with 'size', 'shape' and 'style'. Use categories to navigate. Have each character set include a 64x64 pixel chunk of the screen - of these, then use gallery tags to browse with links to the sub page. The why png and link and supporting information for downloads is not a bad idea, but given the small DF playing population, the downloads are likely to be very skewed and cutting off at 15 may remove some very good ones that people have already downloaded and don't see a need to download again. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 17:52, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I don't think that the tilesets & tileset descriptions are large enough to warrant that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:59, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Hmn. Perhaps, we could ask all the dwarves on this wiki to submit a list of their top 20 tilesets, roughly in order of preference. If we get consensus on the best ones, that could work. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

: What about splitting the tilesets into separate pages by size, e.g. a page for all 16x16s, another for 12x12s, etc? About favorite tilesets, I could barely name my favorite three, so I think picking a favorite 15 or 20 is a bit extreme, and I don't think we can rely on download counts or people just happening to vote, unless we specifically say that voting is going to determine something. '''So''', what do you think about this idea: First, ask forum-goers to nominate user character sets for archiving (removal to an archive page). Second, after the nomination period is over (say, a week), upload those to the file depot, link to the pages, and give forum-goers a month or so to vote down the character sets they want archived, and to vote up ones they don't want archived. At the end of that time we can check their ratings and archive the lowest-rated ones. --[[User:SL|SL]] 01:37, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::I think that splitting the tilesets by size into subpages could be handy: Resolution is a key factor in determining usability of a tileset. For instance, I'd never need to use a 48x48 tileset by a user named "AAAAAAAAA", but in our current sorting system, that'd be the first one displayed on the page, for all to see. I must however raise a question about the direction this line of discussion has gone: Do we really want to prune content based on some standard of quality? If so, whose standard of quality? The problems with this page seem to arise from the fact that this page is unusual for a wiki: It's goal doesn't seem to be "disseminate information" as much as "Host tilesets for download". Which is a valuable service, granted, but an unusual shift for a wiki. This different focus in purpose should be considered before deciding to begin pruning. An excess of content and options is arguably a good thing.[[User:Teeto K|Teeto K]] 05:53, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Now that we have many different subsections here perhaps it's time we took those subsections into separate pages with this page as the central navigation point to those other pages? Would that help? It might be useful so that way each subsection can have whatever explanations are required here, thus important distinctions such as with the tilesets that need different RAWs will be noticed before someone dives into the repository. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 14:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

== Page name ==

<code>List of user character sets</code> is long and unnecessarily wordy. I propose <code>List of tilesets</code>. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
:Sounds like a good idea. Seconded. [[User:Isenhertz|Isenhertz]] 07:41, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== New grid sizes ==

Will someone please explain to me how I can make a 960x300 (Markavian's) tileset work with the new grid sizes larger than 80:25? 96:60 used to work until I tried to us .40c, now it doesn't. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:38, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Oops I had forgotten to change the size in the init to
[WINDOWEDX:1152]

[WINDOWEDY:720]

[FONT:mkv_solidcurses_960x300.bmp]

and

[GRID:96:60]
--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:41, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Problem with Fullscreen ==
I changed the fullscreen settings in my init to 1280x400 like Aesomatica's 16x16 tileset says, but every time I start DF it gives me a 'Mode changed failed, switching to windowed' error, with or without blackspace. How do I get it to run full? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 16:27, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Edit: Checking several different tilesets, for some reason none of them want to work fullscreen other than curses.. I'm wondering if I screwed something up, or if I still just need different measurements.. D: --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 17:20, 2 March 2009 (EST)

::Edit 2: Nevermind, I figured out the problem and now I just feel like a doofus for not recognizing it sooner :p To those who also end up with this problem, here is the solution: you have to set the fullscreen resolution to one your monitor can actually support. Matching the listed res is nice if it works cause it makes everything big and easy to see without stretching it if you have black space off, but if your monitor can't go to 400 Y for example, then you should just go to your current desktop res (in my case 1280x1024) and turn black space on.. Tweak to taste. I'm certain others can clarify this better, though :) --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 17:47, 2 March 2009 (EST)

== Tileset Transparency ==
So, I learned that 0.28.181.40d11 (And possibly earlier versions) supports png format files natively. I know that pngs support an alpha layer (transparency). I tested how transparency works in 40d11 and was quite pleased with the results. Basically, when you add an alpha layer to the png, the magenta color is no longer considered the 'transparent' color, but this allows you to add shading to the transparent color, like for barrels (which has a black normal color and a brown background color). So, white to black shades the normal color, alpha to black shades the background color. Just wanted to share! [[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 07:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
:I tried dabbling with this recently ("dabbling tileset artist" ftw!) but I haven't been able to get pngs to work at all. The game simply doesn't load. Is there a link to any discussions on the Bay12 forums about this? I tried searching but didn't find anything there [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
::I see now what I was doing wrong. Belathus was referring to early release 11 which is part of an open-source project towards using OpenGL as the DF graphics engine, which should allow PNGs. They are now up to 16 now and the testing is being managed by [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40349.405 Baughn on the forums]. Depending on the success of the testing, Toady One might put it into the next version, but people need to help test it. So go there and help dammit!! [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 01:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

==Standard preview==
I can't seem to find it anywhere, but where is the fort many of you have been using for a standard preview? I'm talking about the one pictured in Lord Nightmare, Markavian, Zaratustra, and Herrbdog's previews. I feel a bit out of place with my tilesets and no direct means of comparison. --[[User:Kein|Kein]] 15:40, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

==Adding a date field==
Some of these entries are quite old, dating back to the ol' Boatmurdered days. Many more are based on the old classics, and generally say so, but right now it's hard to find the difference between a new entry and an old one. Someone, (ok, me) should find the date stamps on the graphics and add it to the description. Barring any objections, I'll start adding them tomorrow... --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 01:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

== Request ==
I'm quite intrigued by the graphical 16x16 tilesets, such as Aesomatica's, but have one minor problem - my monitor only supports up to 1024x756, meaning that the 1280x400 resolution required is way too big for my monitor. Since I won't be able to get a larger monitor for a while yet, would it be possible to add in a section for 12x12 tilesets for the slightly smaller resolutions, or do you not think it's really worth it? --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 22:47, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

User:Libelnon

2010-03-26T12:06:39Z

Libelnon:

40d Talk:Dwarf

2010-03-03T22:04:37Z

Libelnon:

I don't really see the point of those pictures, but that isn't a good enough reason to remove them. 
If you have any reasons for which the picture(s) should stay or should not stay, please give them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:58, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:I believe that the pictures help visualize the things talked about in this article, for instance, the dwarven stature, the artifacts dwarves are said to make, and a little joke about managers. -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

::The joke is just plain stupid and DF doesn't connect axes and dwarves at all.
::I suggest placing a smaller, possibly improved version of the picture directly in the article, and deleting the other two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:39, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::This entire article, barring the 3rd paragraph, has nothing to do with the game and should be tossed. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::I agree. I plan to rewrite it in the form of [[Human]] and [[Elf]]. The wiki can have some humour, but this doesn't fit the tone at all. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:22, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::Done, a complete revamp. I considered removing the Mythology section too and just linking to the wikipedia article, but I suppose it doesn't hurt the article any. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Do dwarf chicks have beards?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 21:58, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Usually, no. Unless you are talking about a hardcore mythology version in a very specific locale, like the example image you get if you follow the Wiki link. For DF, I don't think there ever been a fixed description, so it would be up to [[Toady One|Toady]] to decide in the end... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:20, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Naturally. All dwarves have beards, according to Tolkien. This is a page for discussing the article, though, not for discussing dwarves in general. That kind of stuff is for the [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi forum]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 23:27, 13 November 2007 (EST)
::It's not like Tolkien is an ultimate reference to anything... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:10, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:::Considering Tolkien defined the modern conception of dwarves as a separate race famed for their love of wealth and mining prowess, and he also created the plural dwarves as opposed to dwarfs, which would be the proper plural for non-'fantasy' dwarfs (genetic disease in a minority of humans - dwarfism), eg, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (who are actually just short people in early versions that even include dwarfs, not a different race, and its unclear when the characters Snow White lives with became miners - the Disney version certainly post-dates the Hobbit by about 6 years - and her housemates are originally non-dwarf robbers in early versions of the tale).
:::And you can't say that dwarves are solely a Norse Mythology-inspired race, as dwarfs and 'dark' elfs in Norse Mythology are indistinguishable, and both terms often used for the same characters. These characters are often mischevious but also reknowned for possession of valuable objects and strange knowledge, much like the Faerie of diluted Celtic mythology, and while Tolkien likely used them for inspiration, he did much of the creative work in establishing the modern view of dwarves (and elves for that matter). Its not even clear Norse dwarfs are subterranean, as while they live in the 'lower' worlds, Midgard is certainly not subterranean and Asgard is 'above' it, which means the lower worlds may easily have their own sky. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:36, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Are you perhaps confusing Tolkien with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wagner Richard Wagner]?--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:53, 12 November 2008 (EST)
Has anyone tried editing dwarves so they can fly? I'm wondering how that would work in fortress mode. Cliffside fortress, anyone?--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 20:33, 23 November 2007 (EST)

I did some research on dwarfs and how long they can live without water. I reclaimed a fortress using 63 dwarfs and brought no alcohol with me, and at the site there was no liquid water. They all died nearly instantaneously after 2 months and 7 days [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 00:08, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Life cycle ==

The article could be improved with some information about
*mating / babies / birth
*infancy
*childhood
*adulthood
*old age
Do each of these stages exist?
*Sleep cycles
Dwarves seem to hit the sack pretty much at the same time. Is it a seasonal thing or based on workload?
*marriage
Do dwarves get married or just "shack up"? If I reallocate the bedroom does only one leave or both of them?
*Death and grief

I was hoping to find some information about how long children stay children for. Being of the Nintendo Generation I have been suprised how long they stay kids for (anyone played SIMS? 3 days from birth to school!) but then I guess a year takes a long time in DF. Given "traditional" dwarves are meant to be long-lived does that mean the children will still be children in 30 game years time?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:51, 4 February 2008 (EST)
:Dwarves dont marry or shack up. All marriage occurs "off stage" and the married couples then arrive at your fotress. [[children|Childhood]] lasts 12 years. When a dwarf dies, all of their friends and family get an unhappy thought. If their corpse decomposes outside of a coffin, they get an additional unhappy thought. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:27, 4 February 2008 (EST) '''addendum added by --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT):''' This is not true, or at least is no longer true. Single Dwarves will get married, but they need to be lovers for quite some time. 5 years is roughly what I've come to expect. Note that dwarves can and do break up after starting a relationship, so it's very unlikely that you'll ever see a wave of marriages. 
::Your edit just after this one was to [[child]]. I guess that article answers some of my questions, but I wouldn't have thought to look there. I will sort out how this article should link to this one.
::There ''are'' only three stages aren't there: [[child]], [[dwarf]] and ''deceased''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:25, 5 February 2008 (EST)
::: I've had dwarves already living at my fortress get married; they have a wedding reception and everything. Also, sleep appears to be based on a hidden timer, but it's hard to tell. They do tend to go to sleep around the same time as each other, yet not at the same time, so there may be some kind of variation.[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 10:16, 2 April 2008 (EST)

==Object Data?==
Do dwarves even have object data? Should it be included? Cause I wan't to know their size.
—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Yes. First entry in creature standard.txt [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:47, 10 February 2008 (EST)

==Verify tag about throwing peebles==
I'm pretty sure the original writter of that sentence wanted to talk about the boulder throwing tantruming dwarves. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 09:57, 11 February 2008 (EST)

== Fortress ==

Anyone have a map of a typical game-generated fortress? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 15:23, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lifespan ==
Is there any information on how long dwarves live? Because the Queen just died of old age (the fortress is around 11 years old and she came probably 6 years ago). I have a screenshot of the message, but I'm not sure where to put that kind of thing. --[[User:Namako|Namako]] 07:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, but to address your more immediate concern, no dwarf enters the game "fresh" except literal newborns. They all have pasts that were gen'd during world-gen. So the queen was probably past "old age" already. Same thing can happen with "wounded" nobles who show up - they got hit during some world-gen battle (doesn't happen to migrants, afaik). No need to post screenshots, not a bug, not uncommon at all.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::At this point, migrants dont come from world gen populations, so they just "appear" fully grown at your fortress. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Nobody actually answered your question, [MAXAGE:150:170] tag in raw. Dwarves live to be 150-170 years old. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 22:40, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:That's why I play in really young worlds (like 5 years old or so). Everyone's young! --[[Special:Contributions/97.121.190.196|97.121.190.196]] 05:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== Dorf ==

Where did this term "Dorf" come from. Obviously it means, "Dwarf"... but it's a terrible spelling variation. [[Special:Contributions/153.18.25.179|153.18.25.179]] 20:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
:I think it's a reference to "dork" or something like that. The same kind of slang that brought us newbie -> newb -> noob -> nOOb -> nub -> nubcakes -> nubbins. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 06:00, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

== Lefty dwarves? ==

Can dwarves be left-handed? I have a friend who claims to have had this happen. --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 04:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

:Have a play as a dorf in Adventure mode. You'll find that the grand majority seem to be lefties... or at least, ambidextrous.

File:Edzul Hammerfists.png

2010-02-28T11:48:58Z

Libelnon: A third 'hero' of Dathateyo, one who fell prey to an unfortunate critical by an alligator.

A third 'hero' of Dathateyo, one who fell prey to an unfortunate critical by an alligator.

File:Kivish Lengthsabres.png

2010-02-28T10:24:08Z

Libelnon: A second hero. This particular one learned the dangers of alligator hunting the hard way.

A second hero. This particular one learned the dangers of alligator hunting the hard way.

File:Stakud Bloodfist.png

2010-02-28T10:07:52Z

Libelnon: The Legends entry for Stakud Bloodfist. This makes it rather apparent that adventurers rarely see their next birthday.

The Legends entry for Stakud Bloodfist. This makes it rather apparent that adventurers rarely see their next birthday.

File:Dathateyo.png

2010-02-28T09:52:55Z

Libelnon: A map of Dathateyo.

A map of Dathateyo.

User:Libelnon

2010-02-26T19:56:14Z

Libelnon:

Strike the earth!

I'm Libelnon - relative newbie to both the game and this wiki. Although I suppose I'm a little revolutionary in my ideas... I tend to build my fortresses above ground, using plenty of marksdwarves patrolling the rooftops in search of trouble. Oh, and a couple hammerers and a speardwarf or two in the gatehouse, to really deter those annoying macaques!

==Projects==

Working on large-area forts in numerous locations. Will keep you posted.

===Current World===

'Snospaslozgo' - The Past Universes 
Large sea in the south, with multiple islands. Large number of lakes across the northern highlands.

====Current Fortress - 'Idenoshar'====

=====Starting Goods and Positioning=====

======Dwarves======

Tekkud Tathurriguth, Competent Organiser, Competent Consoler, Competent Pacifier, Novice Conversationalist 
Zuglar Otungdoduk, Proficient Miner, Proficient Mechanic 
Kivish Bomreksterus, Proficient Axedwarf, Proficient Woodcutter 
Deduk Fikodtomus, Proficient Carpenter, Proficient Bowyer 
Likot Sobirducim, Proficient Mason, Proficient Engraver 
Datan Dumatken, Proficient Fisherdwarf, Proficient Grower 
Olon Uthirlikot, Proficient Herbalist, Proficient Fish Cleaner 

======Goods======

Seeds would probably be available later, as is needed. But for the time being, I set out with the following: 
 
2 Copper Picks 
2 Steel Battleaxes 
50 units of Dwarven Wine 
50 units of Dwarven Ale 
100 units of Turtles 
2 Pig Tail Ropes 
4 suits of Horse Leather Armor 
4 Horse Leather Helms 
4 pairs of Horse Leather Gloves 
4 pairs of Horse Leather High Boots 
4 pairs of Horse Leather Leggings 
2 Iron Crossbows 
2 Bronze Crossbows 
As well as 2 dogs, a cat, and a horse. 
 
Plenty of equipment for the time being, and enough to sustain a small squad of marksdorfs later.

======Positioning and Initial Info======

Continent: The Full Continent 
Location: Bridges between The Static Forests and The Waxy Spine 
Area: 8x8 
Climate: Cold. 

<gallery>
Image:LibelnonIdenosharOrbital.png|An orbital shot of the starting location.
Image:LibelnonIdenosharTopdown.png|A top down shot of the starting location.
</gallery>

=====Year One=====
Ironically, that's 4 by game time.

======4th Granite======
Had a quick search around, and surely enough, even still in spring, sections of the river are frozen. The river might be useful for a moat later, because an open drawbridge still functions as a fairly strong door. Began work on a well, knowing that as soon as my booze stocks ran out, I'd be pretty much fekked on the water front. 'Scuse the pun.

======14th Slate======
Well, whaddya know? Digging in the well recess, i discovered a microcline cluster - unfortunately in the lower level of the well. Ah well. Beggars can't be choosers. And I'm a little OCD in these kinds of things.

======11th Felsite======
Mission accomplished! With the well up and running, I can begin work on other projects. Firstly - get my meetingplace set up. It's presently in a 9x9 area around the well - so the idea here is to pave that, and then expand the city around that area. Usually easier said then done... So first task? Dig out enough of that Mica deposit near the frozen river section, and get those roads paved!

======17th Felsite======
Woah, freaky! A whole section of the river melted, just like that! Kinda glad now I didn't go ice mining earlier on, that could've been messy...

======13th Limestone======
The caravans from home arrived. Whoo. Pity too, I haven't got a trade depot - or any need of one - just now, so they're going to bugger on past.

======16th Limestone======
Told the liason that we only needed bolts (which is true... to a point) and he buggered off. He wants beer off us, and that's not likely going to happen - only 28 units left between the 7 dorfs I've got, and no chance of any brewable items popping up sometime soon.

======12th Timber======
Blasted racoons, ran off with my armor. I'll get them, I will... I'll get them!

Oh, and... I didn't mention the immigrants, did I? Well, I'll mention them now.
Muthkat Fikodvush, an Engraver, and Ducim Likotokil, a Metalsmith, skilled in smelting, armoring and weaponcraft.

======4th Moonstone======
Ah. Obviously didn't think that over as well as I thought. Well's frozen over, and now is practically useless. And beer stocks are dangerously low.

======14th Opal======
And to think I was doing so well. Booze stocks have hit zero. Everyone's thirsty and not working. because of that the miner can't recover the well, so it looks like we've been forsaken in this goddamned place...

======18th Obsidian======
Poor Kivish Bomreksterus died of thirst just now. And he was almost at legendary woodcutting, too.

======23rd Obsidian======
Sucsess, I've avoided any further casualties! By flooding the cellar levels around the well, I have managed to avert this crisis by lowering the well far enough to allow citizens to drink from the cellar levels. But as of poor Kivish... He will be remembered. He didn't deserve to die.

=====Year Two=====
[[File:LibelnonYear2start.png|200px|thumb|right|The fortress at present.]]
Battered by an unexepectedly cold winter, the residents of Idenoshar press on, ready to embrace the coming storm.

======1st Granite======
Well, how's that for perfect. Another year, and Tekkud Tathurriguth's gone stark raving bonkers. Everyone else is annoyed at the death of Kivish, and unfortunately, Tekkud was the man responsible for calming the tantrumers. Things just took a turn for the worst.

======2nd Granite======
Madness is an incurable disease. Tekkud was discovered in the nearby pool this morning, drowned. Without his guidance, the ever present danger of a tantrum spiral looms overhead...

======5th Granite======
The flooded cellars are beginning the slow process of drying out, now. I've had my carpenter, Deduk Fikodtomus, construct coffins for those lost. Hopefully the feeling that their friends won't rot in vain will be appreciated by their friends.

Current population: 7.

======8th Granite======
Likot Sobirducim threw a momentary tantrum earlier. Probably just a mood swing.

======10th Granite======
Spoke too soon... He's gone berserk now. This won't end well.

======11th Granite======
He killed a puppy! Sadist Bas- no, I'd better not write that where children might see it.
And now a dog too. This guy's on a bloody roll. Literally.

======14th Granite======
And now he's killed his 'best friend', Muthkat Fikodvush. I'm beginning to think that Idenoshar might have been doomed by the frozen well. But I do believe there is a giant eagle somewhere near where Likot is...

======17th Granite======
Likot's rampage continues, as he mercilessly slaughters a young donkey.

======18th Granite======
And another dog as well.

======21st Granite======
And now a horse. My animal population has dropped to a meager 8.

======23rd Granite======
Likot's rampage draws to a close, as the five remaining citizens band together and kill him. Orders for more caskets are passed out.

======24th Granite======
More panic. Deduk Fikodtomus throws a tantrum.

======26th Granite======
Obviously just a short spell. Deduk calms down. Amazingly without destroying anything!

======27th Granite======
Tekkud and Kivish are buried in the mine shaft. Mainly because we didn't have anywhere else to put them.
Work is bugun to reconstruct the flooded cellars, involving many more walls.

======3rd Slate======
Ah, as if on cue, we have migrants! Lets see who... 
Well, we have Stakud Telingkadol, a butcher, and Logem Arbandakost, a pretty useless peasant.

======7th Slate======
Another tantrum. This is beginning to get annoying.

======12th Slate======
Deduk's off again. And he was going so well.
Finally made sense as to why. He and Olon, the fish cleaner, are laying wounded at the site of Likot's final stand. Both with severely mangled legs. How do I not notice these things!?

======25th Hematite======
With very little progress being made in terms of construction, the two injured dwarves slowly recover in a makeshift barracks in the cellar area. Logem has taken over any carpentry for now, and Stakud has become a fish cleaner. He's good with the knife, at least.

======1st Malachite======
More immigrants! 
Ushat Zonaned, a Carpenter (he'll be useful), and Degel Ninginiz, a peasant.
 
Unfortunately, they'll have to wait until the river freezes to get here. Their own stupid fault for spawning wrong side of the river.

======3rd Timber======
More immigrants. LOTS this time. Not even going to bother listing them. But I have got 17 citizens now.

======4th Moonstone======
Traders arrived, and quickly departed. Still no trade depot, see. Well's frozen again, but this time i'm prepared. The upper level of the well is dug out and water in those sections are available to the dwarves. Leaving a little iceberg in the centre of the well.

User:Libelnon

2010-02-26T17:40:26Z

Libelnon:

File:LibelnonYear2start.png

2010-02-26T16:54:47Z

Libelnon: A very battered Idenoshar at the start of it's second year.

A very battered Idenoshar at the start of it's second year.

User:Libelnon

2010-02-26T16:09:34Z

Libelnon:

File:LibelnonIdenosharTopdown.png

2010-02-26T16:07:53Z

Libelnon: A top-down screenshot of the fortress location of Idenoshar, created in Virtual Fortress.

A top-down screenshot of the fortress location of Idenoshar, created in Virtual Fortress.

File:LibelnonIdenosharOrbital.png

2010-02-26T16:06:19Z

Libelnon: An orbital view of the fortress Idenoshar, created in Virtual Fortress.

An orbital view of the fortress Idenoshar, created in Virtual Fortress.

User talk:Libelnon

2010-02-26T11:34:07Z

Libelnon:

Soon as I work out how the hell I put pictures up I'll post some screenies.
[[Screenshot]]. np. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:03, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
:ah, cheers. Shall go post them up then moment I gets home. --[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 11:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Libelnon

2010-02-25T22:26:27Z

Libelnon: /* Current Project */

User:Libelnon

2010-02-25T17:03:26Z

Libelnon:

User:Libelnon

2010-02-24T18:07:42Z

Libelnon:

User:Libelnon

2010-02-24T16:39:23Z

Libelnon:

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2010-02-24T00:27:20Z

Libelnon: /* Suggestions for the future */ new section

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

:I would personally like to see coins better implemented, i just like the idea of coffers full of gold and actually having a hoard to protect. Maybe each dwarf can have a 'Moneybag', which is like a quiver or waterskin, but for coins. They'll carry around in it their 'spending limit' for shops, the rest of their money being locked up in their coffer, if they have one, or maybe at a bank; a bigger personal hoard means more happy thoughts!. Other than those direct purchases, all earnings/expenditures is totaled up over a month, season, or year and the net result is transferred by the Tax Collector, who meets with each dwarf and gives (or takes) the appropriate amount of gold. The money owned by the government(controlled by you) is stored in either The Bank or The Hoard. The Bank is for day-to-day activities and exchanges; The Hoard being a designated area where goods are taken out of the economy. Weapons are in racks, armor on stands, furniture and crafts displayed; but most important of all are the piles of coins and gems! Active traps and proximity to magma and water help too. The size and value of The Hoard has a significant impact on fortress wealth, and increasing it is a common Noble Demand; a big hoard makes ALL of your Dwarves happier and vice versa.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::as soon as i got my economy up and running, i had my first siege, then my first (ever) megabeast attack straight after. similar to Eurytus, it's never happened in any of my other fortresses (only one siege prior to these two attacks, in a different fortress).
::however, i will add that in the year before, i was producing native platinum statues, increasing the fortress wealth considerably (native platinum = 120, native platinum statues = 3k), so what's the formula for it? is it:
Wealth = Attacks?
Economy = Attacks?
Wealth = Economy = Attacks? or maybe
Wealth = Attacks + Economy?

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

:My Duke starved/thirsted himself to death... he had no money. Is this why? and yes there was plenty of food, none of the 152 other dwarves did starve. --[[User:L337chica|L337chica]]

:: A dwarf will not starve due to not having enough money, the children of my legendaries have put the family in debt (legendaries don't earn wages, children don't earn enough and once they grow up they get their own account) yet still new kids pop out with nobody in my fortress (who doesn't wall himself in/get walled in by me) starving to death. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 11:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Your Duke didn't starve from being unable to purchase food - he probably went [[insane]] from your failure to meet his demands. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:48, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:::They don't need money, they're exempt from the economy. Also, the children of nobles NOT BEING NOBLES THEMSELVES can create the amusing situation of the baron's son dying of hunger, if you keep churning out *plump helmet roast*s.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)
:I tried killing my tax collector, but when his replacement arrived a year later, the economy did '''not''' activate. I haven't tried offing my duke (and duchess consort) yet, but given his obsession with anvils (124 and counting), the temptation is very strong... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:42, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
::I've gone ahead and offed my duke and duchess consort - when their replacements arrive, we'll see if the economy turns on. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)
:::This is exactly what makes it an exploit. If the system took into account inflation and supply and demand, then this would not be an exploit. The fact that it does not count these things means that the infinite hauling jobs pay out pleanty of cash while achieving no net bennefit to the community, but are still not effecting the value of money. :P It is like turning your dwarven colony into a welfare state without the economic drawbacks! [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 20:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::No. Ok, lets be perfectly clear here, while there have been many theories about what creates value, the real economic model has always been supply and demand in the real world. You have just at various times had people pretending that other things were true (and generally not those whose business involved intimate interaction with said economy, who have always understood how supply effects price, if nothing else). So in the real world when you try to pretend something wrong is true there are horrible consequences.
::::Enter DF, which specifically institutes as a law of nature a theory of value totally at odds with supply and demand. Given the existence of that Truth of the DF world, nothing involving it can be an exploit because it does not and cannot behave like any real economy. Fact: DF posits a world with an absolute theory of value. Fact: given an absolute theory of value, pulling a lever really does have a set value even if pulling it accomplishes nothing - because the act of pulling that lever has been defined by the laws of nature as being worth a particular set amount. That action has an absolute value, just like every other action.
::::What it comes down to is the DF theory of value is *stupid*. However, all these exploits are actually such a thing working exactly as intended, its just the intention is stupid. But as such its not an exploit - an exploit requires something working differently than intended. The moment you assume an absolute theory of value, you necessarily intend for things like this to happen.
::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:25, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:::::It's an ALPHA. The entire game engine is just a placeholder. Nothing can be taken as cannon at this stage. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:48, 25 February 2009 (EST)
::::::....I'm confused. Are you saying its an exploit because sometime later the design of the economy might change and lever pulling for cash would be an exploit of some presumed future system? That would make every use of the current economy an exploit. When the economic engine is fixed, if it is fixed, then doing the listed 'exploits' won't even be possible. Yes, my position is that an economic engine is impossible to exploit, because its rules are necessarily the rules its implemented to use.
::::::But there's no evidence that any change is coming. Not that i've read every feature goal and power goal, but i don't recall incorporating a supply-demand system is on Toadyone's list of priorities at all. And the fact that its an alpha just means he isn't done implementing what he considers basic features, according to his own design plan.
::::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:15, 26 February 2009 (EST)
:::::::The same "impossible to exploit" thing applies to all other imperfect simulations, though. By the same logic, you could say that a drawbridge deleting things isn't an exploit, because that's how drawbridges work in DF, or using one block of aquifer stone to produce unlimited water isn't an exploit, because that's how aquifers work in DF. Triangle stockpiles to generate unlimited money are just as much an exploit as running a waterfall from one block of aquifer stone through a water wheel to a drawbridge. It's not a matter of "some future version", it's a matter of "the thing the game's trying to simulate".
:::::::Notably, the lore doesn't include the dwarven economy operating on a labor theory of value, and the liaisons and guildmasters even use a demand/supply theory of value. So the absolute system is just an alpha-quality simulation of a demand/supply system, and taking advantage of that is an exploit.
:::::::Of course, this cuts both ways. For example, a proper economy uses mass action, similar to "the wiki magic"; but in DF as it stands, the player has to assign labors and order workshops built - a dwarf who sees a need can't just buy some space, some tools, and some materials, and start fulfilling it. So the economy also exploits you. But that doesn't make exploiting it back into any less of an exploit.
:::::::But hey, I've modded in some supermetals, and just by not taking the midnightsteel battleaxes I embark with loads of points for equipment, and I bring tetrahedrite and smelt it into billion. I just accept that I'm exploiting flaws and bugs in the game. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 19:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)
: You mean benefits? Extra complexity and [[fun|challenge]], of course! You get shops, coins with value, and an answer to the question, "My dwarves are all happy, what do I do now?" I have it disabled in the .ini, like any sane dwarfmaster. Oh wait, that's a contradiction in terms. But I still have my Baron->Count->Duchess and my Incoming King (pop limit 140). --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:12, 12 February 2009 (EST)

==Fake Deaths==

Toady should add a mechanic where a brewer pretends to kill himself in a pub fire to claim the insurance cos he can't afford a room.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 16:29, 24 February 2009 (EST)

:Affordable life insurance couldn't possibly exist in a Dwarf Fortress. They die too easily. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:11, 24 February 2009 (EST)
::Affordable life insurance. Classic. oh, this place cracks me up...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)
:::In Dwarf Fortress, affordable life insurance is an [[artifact]] [[adamantine]] [[flail]]. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 01:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
::::One word: Magma--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:29, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Economy stoppers? ==

Is it possible to stop the Dwarven Economy once it starts by killing the Tax Collector/Baron?
::I've never seen it stop, even after a tax collector was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps with the init file, though? Anybody?[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 01:56, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:::Nope - once activated, it's locked.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

== Accurate as of...? ==

:"According to the game designer* [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6882.msg81183#msg81183], the '''dwarven economy''' is unlocked when ...

:* 25 [[crafts|crafting]] jobs
:* 25 [[metal]]-related jobs
:* 25 [[wood]]-related jobs
:* 10 [[gem]] jobs
:* 25 [[stone]] jobs
::or
:* 25 [[food]] jobs..."

The problem is that post was made by Toady One in Jan of '08, well ''before'' ver 39a was released (July '08). The numbers ''look'' right for the current version, they ''feel'' right - can anyone verify them?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:40, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== Suggestions for the future ==

I've had a few ideas for the future economy, so I'll post them up here:

- Thieves. Dwarves who are too poor to afford something essential (or not for greedy dwarves) should be allowed to turn to thievery to allow them to live - however, this should make them criminals. The chance of stealing without being seen should be relevant to their Ambusher skill (as that influences how easy it is to see them)
- I like the idea of dwarves having their own 'moneybags' or purses, but again that allows for another kind of criminal - the legendary cutpurse. Again, the chance to pinch the other dwarf's purse undetected should be relevant to their ambusher skill.
- Children shouldn't inherit their parent's wealth until their parents die, and should be allowed the 200 monies that everyone else is entitled to when the economy begins, to stop legendary/noble kids being the poor ones, and the commoner's kids being complete spoilt brats.
--[[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 00:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Chasm

2010-02-21T17:55:29Z

Libelnon: /* Cave spiders= Chasm */

==Dumping / Chasm-ing==
I removed the "this is for use on the lowest level of the Chasm" part of the article, because it doesn't seem to be the case. You can set a dump zone over the side of a tower 20 z-levels high and still have the crap land in the chasm, and I don't see why the collapse trick wouldn't work at all levels as well. --[[User:Tallyho|Tallyho]] 07:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

==Pit Chasm==
I've had a chasm in a mountainous area near a volcano which was in fact cylindrical, not shaped like a river at all. It was basically a bore of empty space all the way to the bottom-most level, which consisted of the # chasm squares. In that respect, it looked much like a volcano bore but generally a bit smaller. There were variations in width on different levels of it as well. This led to open cave floor around it on some levels where troglodytes, iron men, giant cave swallows, and caveswallowmen frolicked about. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 08:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Huh, how about that. They're certainly more interesting than they used to be.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 14:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Interesting. Sounds like a magma vent minus the magma. I have a game going in a grassland a few region squares away from a volcano. When I first started the game, I got a message that part of the cavern had collapsed and it zoomed to the magma vent. The vent itself was as you describe--a roughly cylindrical sinkhole of varying widths that went all the way to the bottom. Only in my case, it was full of magma up to the surface, and at lower depths, fire imps, magma men and fire snakes could be seen (Apparently, magma is transparent.) Maybe the game treats magma vents as localized chasms full of magma? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 16:43, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:: That's probably how it was formed, using the same algorithm as a magma vent, but it does appear to be intentional. Perhaps it is indeed meant to be a dead magma vent. That same map has the main volcano magma vent a short distance away. The magma vent was of course shown on the local map when choosing the map location, but the circular chasm was not.
::As for the collapse message when starting on a map with a magma vent, that appears to be due to a bug where a body of water is generated in the middle of it. This water instantly creates a solid block of obsidian with no support, which then collapses. Magma is semi-liquid, and fireproof monsters like those you mention will swim freely through it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 17:06, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Actually there are two variants of the chasm, a chasm vent/pit and a chasm/river star like chasm (encountered this one twice, and it really fucked up the level). Perhaps we should works this into the article. Perhaps we should ad screenshots. I sadly have no save with the star river like chasm anymore (abandoned those). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 18:45, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm playing a fortress right now with the same type of "pit" chasm. I'll see if I can get a shot of it to add to the page. --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 19:08, 7 November 2007 (EST)

==Surface / embark map view ==
Are the surface chasms visible from the map when selecting the site? It would be great to get a screenshot of that for the page to look similarly to the volcano page. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 02:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:They're not visible until you actually embark. Same thing for kobold caves. However, if they reach the surface at all, you can see every single tile they contain right away.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)

==Cliff as indicator==
I don't think that chasms are the only things that can produce 20+ cliffs. I have a fortress now that is right on the edge of a massive cliff.--[[User:Zonhin|Zonhin]] 19:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)

: They aren't. Those cliffs appear rather often around true volcanoes and mountain peaks. Chasms just happen to be VERY common in mountain region tiles at embark, as much so as small brooks/rivers in certain other regions.

==Tributary chasm==
I have a pretty oddly shaped chasm, or at least i think i do. It starts from the corner of the map in a river like shape, then it splits off into 5 smaller 'fingers.' I've mined alot of the rock around it; it has a wide assortment of metals, gems, and stone i havent seen anywhere else on the map.--[[User:Hiho216|Hiho216]] 00:58, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:Apparently, you have a chasm that got the same code as a river source/delta, as that creates the same sort of 'fingers.'--[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:34, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Cave spider spawning==
The article says that cave spiders "Often cave spiders are present near chasms". Shouldn't it be "Cave spiders spawn periodically near chasms"? I haven't seen chasm without those awesome little silk spawners. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a pic of the end of a chasm here: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8286/chasmendfl7.png
Not sure if it's notable... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 23:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:My current map has a chasm without any spawning spiders. I’ve been playing it for about three or four years (game time, of course) and have not seen any at all. I wonder if it has anything to do with whether the chasm breaks the surface or not? (Mine’s completely enclosed.) My biome is pretty standard, so I don’t think that’s what prevent them from spawning. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 20:27, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

::One of my fortresses has a chasm with no cave spiders. I think it's just random whether a particular chasm contains cave spiders or not. If you export the "world-sites-and-pops" file, it doesn't show chasms, but it does show caves (which supposedly contain the same creatures as chasms), and some have lots of cave spiders while others have none at all. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 21:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Baddies ==

Do chasms spawn hostile creatures like ratmen, or do they just start there? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

:Sadly, UG/chasm/magma no longer spawns anything. Kill it, and it is gone for good. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)

::Any chance of re-introducing spawning? A init option enabling it would be sweet! --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:04, 3 March 2009 (EST)

== Chasm of Death ==

There's no mention of this in the article so I feel compelled to inquire as to what people's experiences of chasms in adventure mode have been.

When 'venturing about one of my fallen fortresses I was attacked by a hoard of troglodytes, approximately 15 brutally violated me within the corridors of my fortress as my noble warrior collapsed due to over-exertion after blocking countless attacks and was promptly strangled to death. Thinking this a mere quirk of the wonderful world of DF I returned to the fortress with a different character, much stronger this time, expecting to be able to have a proper look around. I was sadly mistaken. I was first attacked by a giant eagle, after a few fortunate strikes I had claimed the upper hand and was preparing to deal the killing blow when a wave of those cursed troglodytes clambered up the mountainside. Well taught by the experience of that unfortunate past warrior, abandoning my prey, I fled. Well, I did for a few moments before turning to see the troglodyte hoard attacking the giant eagle, I must say, I felt a deep sense of pity for the poor beast as the monsters went about their brutal practice of trying to break every bone in its body.

With a cry I charged at the mass of assailants and began to cleave them apart, blood spat forth endlessly from the mound of creatures before me as I hacked and slashed, coating the mountainside in crimson. Unfortunately the eagle was torn apart before I could give it a slightly more honourable death (slightly being the key word here) and I found myself surrounded by limbs, corpses and blood. The slaughter of the troglodytes was not to be the first however as each time I return to that cursed place more and more crawl forth from the chasm. They attack all in their path, be they goat or giant eagle and as such the slope of the mountain is stained with the blood of perhaps hundreds and the bones of the countless fallen litter the earth. It seems the troglodytes are without number.

Perhaps this was a curious enigma in the world, a strange chasm of frenzied and blood thirsty troglodytes, so I thought until I came upon an inhabited fortress deep in the mountains nearby. Upon arriving I heard the cries of a child set upon by vicious bat-men, by the time I found the infant I was too late, only a bruised and battered corpse remained. Upon this visit there was little more of importance which came to pass, I was in fact not even aware that there was a chasm in the vicinity until my second visit. As soon as I neared the fortress the stench of death was thick in the air, rat-men, troglodytes and bat-men were mobbing and slaughtering soldiers, fish-cleaners and dyers indiscriminately. I ran to the aid of the assailed but for many I was too late, after what seemed like an age of combat all was quiet and the ground was littered with limbs and corpses and, of course, stained with blood. As I looked upon the all-to-familiar scene of destruction a terrible thought suddenly struck me, perhaps there was a chasm here. From my experience I presumed that it would probably be upon the side of a mountain and so to the East I ran, clambering up the slopes, and as I did so I heard a cry. A swordsman, perhaps with the same idea as I had come upon the chasm and was being attacked by numerous assailants, including a gremlin and several rat-men. Tragically, as I neared his location he bled to death (I don't quite know what cut him, perhaps a large rat entered the battle at some point), I found his corpse high atop a pile of the bodies of those he had slain in his battle-frenzy.

And then, I saw it, the chasm, a damned pit of suffering and torment. No sooner had I sighted it than I was attacked by a number of bat-men. As I fought more and more emerged from the chasm but they all met the same bloody end, my time spent fighting hoards of vicious troglodytes had sharpened my skill in combat and once the stream of foes ended I emerged tired, but unwounded.

To conclude, chasms may be useful waste-disposal areas in fortress, but in adventure they are terrible places of endless slaughter where blood flows unceasingly. Have others had similar experiences? If so I'll add a section (with a little less story-telling) to warn people of the dangers of these cursed pits. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 17:25, 8 February 2009 (EST)
----
Uncommon? They're all over the place in mountain biomes, in my experience. [[User:InsanityPrelude|InsanityPrelude]] 13:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

----

Y'mean the chasms? Perhaps I've been spending too much time frolicking with wolves in the woods.
Admittedly they are pretty prevalent in fortress mode but tend to be tucked away, at least in my fortresses. Maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough on my adventures or the majority of the citizens of chasms are friendlier folk who don't pick fights quite as often. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 21:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== To find a chasm ==

Once I looked at my stocks screen to find a bunch of naked mole dog/olmman corpses on the list. I didn't recall anything dying recently, so I zoomed to it and found it pointing deep underground. I never actually got the chance to dig it up and see, but it didn't take me long to figure out what was going on. Anyway, that's just something to look out for, if you're in the market for a chasm, or just don't want any nasty surprises. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, I found that if you have lots of red [[silk|cave spider silk thread]] on your stocks screen, zoom to one, and then dig to there. Chasm! --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 06:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cave spiders= Chasm ==

I was digging a corridor right under my cave river when I noticed that there was a bunch of silk laying around and my cats had killed about 10 cave spiders. So after a while more and more cave spiders spawned and made more silk.I was wondering if this meant that i was near a chasm.--[[User:Cerol The Elf Hunter|Cerol The Elf Hunter]] 17:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

More likely than not, this probably means chasm.
I would think yourself lucky - I was aware of a chasm in one of my earlier games, just not too sure of the hazards. A Giant Cave Spider spawned above the chasm on top of the mountain, and one of my stray cats stumbled into it's web - who narrowly escaped being devoured, and lured the beast back to the fortress entrance. Needless to say, as it was only autumn of the first year, even with the help of the caravan guards it still massacred half of my fort's population. [[User:Libelnon|Libelnon]] 17:53, 21 February 2010 (GMT)

== Use for Drain? ==

I haven't been able to try this out yet, but I was thinking that you could better use flowing water if the end dump was a chasm. There would be no need for any pumps, you can just build a tunnel to the drain and let gravity do the rest! This would make things like computers much easier to operate, and the amount of water you can use is only limited by how fast it spawns in a nearby brook. Tell me what you think (am I insane or a genius [or both]?).
:It actually works wonderfully, with one particular exception worth noting. The higher up in the chasm/pit that you place the water’s exit, the more mist you will generate (mist being generated by falling water) and, therefore, the slower your fort will move due to frame rate issues. I’m not totally sure how to get around this as the water will need to fall somewhere no matter what, but I would assume that if you had a 1x1 channel that the water fell down until it reached the bottom (at which point it would flow into the chasm/pit) that might help because you wouldn’t be generating as much mist in the confined space (but you would still be generating some). (NOTE: This is based on pure speculation from other things I have read on this wiki. I have not actually done this yet.) --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 20:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

== Spawning ==

Just curious: Do Chasms spawn creatures? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 06:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
:No. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

== Dragon? ==

According to [[User:Bentusi16|Bentusi16]]:
:In one case, a [[Dragon]] emerged from a chasm in a Fortress Mode fort without meeting the regular mega beast requirements (The fort had only been in play one in game season). It is not known if this was a bug or is a feature. No other recorded cases of this happening are available at this time.
More information needs to be gathered about this. Did the dragon appear within one of the side caverns, or did it emerge from the map edge? If the latter, it's likely that it simply chose a very poor location to enter the map as all megabeasts do. Also, it isn't clear that there are requirements under which megabeasts can arrive - the [[megabeast|article]] states that such requirements may exist, but they have never been verified. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

== Creating a Chasm ==

Is there any way to create a bottomless pit? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Aside from a utility (such as dtil), no. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:42, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

== Dead Creatures ==

All of the creatures spawned dead, is there a problem? --[[User:Raneman|Raneman]] 18:43, 5 February 2010 (Central time)

User:Libelnon

2010-02-21T08:11:26Z

Libelnon: Created page with 'Strike the earth! I'm Libelnon - relative newbie to both the game and this wiki. Although I suppose I'm a little revolutionary in my ideas... I tend to build my fortresses above…'