Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Kydo

2014-04-28T08:56:10Z

Kydo: /* Preface: */

User:Kydo

2014-04-28T08:54:17Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

v0.34:Glass industry

2014-04-08T20:43:28Z

Kydo: /* Glassmaking vs. Other Professions */

{{quality|Exceptional|14:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)}}{{av}}

The '''Glass Industry''' is a versatile and, under the right circumstances, sustainable source of items. Everything from [[finished goods]] to [[furniture]] to low value [[glass]] [[gem]]s to [[block]]s to [[trap component]]s can be created in [[glass]], making [[Glassmaker]] a very useful profession. Since glass is [[magma-safe]] and capable of producing all necessary [[screw pump]] components, a glassmaking industry can prove quite valuable when working with [[magma]].

=Producing glass=
The limiting factors to [[glass]] production are [[sand]] and [[fuel]]; in order to produce glass in great quantities your map must have sand and either a good source of coal, magma or many trees. Small quantities of sand can regularly be acquired from [[caravan]]s, but rarely enough to run a large industry. Soil layers may or may not include sand; there is no way to tell if your map will provide it until you embark (other than [[cheating]]). If you want to ensure the possibility of a flourishing glass industry, embark on a [[sand desert]] or [[badlands]] biome. Keep in mind these biomes by themselves don't have [[tree]]s to [[fuel]] your furnaces early on.

To make items from glass, sand must first be gathered in [[bag]]s using a task available at any [[glass furnace]], "Gather Sand". You must designate a [[activity zone|Sand Collection zone]] from the ({{k|i}})-menu that includes an accessible area of sand in order for this task to be performed. Only cut glass "gems" (and [[artifact]]s) can be made from raw glass purchased from [[caravan]]s. All other glass objects must be made from "sand bearing items", i.e. bags of sand.

Once you have one bag of sand you can order glass to be created at a furnace. A standard [[glass furnace]] will consume one unit of [[fuel]] per job; a [[magma glass furnace]] uses no fuel.

==Collecting sand==
All sustainable types of glassmaking require a [[container|bag]] of [[sand]]. The "Collect [[Sand]]" order at the glass furnace requires the "[[hauling#Item_hauling|item hauling]]" labor, not glassmaking. The Collect Sand order does however still occupy the glass furnace, preventing glassmakers from performing any other jobs there until after the collection has been completed. Collecting sand is a time consuming task, and proficient glassmakers quickly become faster at making items than gathering materials, leading to job cancellations as collected sand becomes scarce.

===Collecting sand efficiently===
There are ways around this problem, each with its own benefits and drawbacks.

====Controlled====
Collect a specific amount of sand bags, then assign the correspondent orders of actual glass making. This ensures that enough bags remain for other tasks and no cancellations happen. It is also the best way to keep an overview of what has actually been produced, especially when using the manager. Time loss is negligible as the bulk of time is consumed by hauling sand.

====Brute force====
The fast, somewhat sloppy method is to build additional glass furnaces near your sand collection zone for the sole purpose of [[repeat]]ing the Collect Sand order while other furnaces are used for actual glassmaking. Keep in mind that ordering glass goods through the [[manager]] will schedule jobs in your sand collection glass furnaces, which can get irritating and interfere with your balance of sand supplies and glassmaking orders. To avoid this, queue ten sand collection jobs and set them all to repeat. This will prevent new jobs from being assigned to the [[furnace]].

'''Benefits:'''
*This method will free up time for your glassmakers to focus on making glass items.

*It is possible to turn off all of your craftsdwarves' hauling labors and let your pack of otherwise useless [[Potash maker|Potash Maker]]s do all the grunt work of filling [[container|bags]].

'''Drawbacks:'''
*This method is hard to balance. Just when you think you have found an equilibrium between supply and demand, a legendary glassmaker goes to sleep and every bag is filled with sand during his absence, resulting in a cascade of canceled bag filling jobs. If you instead order more bags than can be used, hundreds of surplus sand bags will accumulate until you eventually run out of bags or tweak the balance again.

====Slow and easy====
The slightly slower but more controllable method of collecting sand efficiently. Assign each glass furnace to an individual glassmaker, and make sure that the dwarf's item hauling labor is turned on. Stagger work orders so the glassmaker hauls their own sand, then makes their item, then hauls their own sand.

'''Benefits:'''
*Orders can be set to repeat endlessly in the background with no oversight, which is particularly excellent when mass producing [[Gems#Glass|raw glass]] or [[block]]s.

*Usage of bags is set to a minimum, which frees [[cloth]] and [[leather]] for other purposes.

'''Drawbacks:'''
*Tandem job orders like this mean that only five orders can be placed at a time, meaning that orders are placed most effectively as [[repeat]]s. A way around this is to set five different types of tandem orders and [[suspend]] and unsuspend them as desired.

*This method is slower than the brute force method, and doesn't give your horde of idle dwarves anything to do.

*The manager can still be a burden with this system and ruin the balance of labors.

==Varieties of glass==
:*Producing '''green glass''' requires only a bag of sand. Green glass items are [[value|worth]] twice as much as objects made from most [[stone]], making it equivalent to cheap metals like [[copper]] and [[zinc]].

:*Producing '''clear glass''' requires one bar of [[pearlash]] in addition to a bag of sand. Clear glass items are worth five times as much as items made from most stones, making it equivalent to metals like [[bronze]].

:*Producing '''crystal glass''' requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough [[rock crystal]]s, a [[gem]] which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from [[trader]]s will not work for producing crystal glass. Crystal glass is worth ten times as much as objects made from most stones, making it equivalent in value to metals like [[silver]].

See also "[[Glass]]" for a full discussion of the properties of glass items.

==Glass Industry Flowchart==

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Flowchart of the glass industry and its interaction with surrounding industries.]]

=Glassmaking vs. Other Professions=
Functionally, the glass industry is like a cross between the Stone industry, and the Metal industry, incorporating elements from both. Functionally, it is similar to metalworking, using a furnace and fuel to produce its products, and its products can have material values similar to metals. Meanwhile, its actual product output is most similar to stoneworking, with only a few differences, and it can pretty much fully replace masonry except for those instances.

==vs. Stoneworking==
There is considerable overlap between items produced from [[stone]] at a [[Mason's workshop]], and items produced from glass at glass furnaces. [[Mason]]ry is easier to get running and will [[stone management|clear excess stone]] from your fortress. Glass produces items with a higher base [[value]] (unless you make your masons use flux or [[obsidian]]), and using a [[magma glass furnace]] allows you to make green glass objects without consuming anything but dwarven labor. Glass also provides a [[magma-safe]] alternative, to prepare for magma-based projects before it's discovered or avoid stockpile micromanagement for the correct building materials. Unique stone products which cannot be made of glass are querns/millstones, slabs, crafts, and stone short swords.

==vs. Metalworking==
There are many similarities in the processes between [[metalsmithing]] and glassmaking. Both require fuel, and both require supplementary materials for certain unique products. Additionally, crafts are made directly at the furnace, rather than at a craftsdwarf's workshop. Metalworking is generally more likely to be started first, as any site will eventually find metals and fuel, (if even only in the form of magma) and quality weapons are often needed to start a military, but how much you can make is limited by how much you can dig up or buy. Glassmaking has the potential to produce ''infinite'' products, if given sand, enough bags, and magma. Also, while metal ores are turned into an intermediary material, (bars) by another profession at a different workshop, which must then be forged into a product, glassmaking produces a product directly from the raw materials, and still leaves you with an empty bag. Finally, metalworking has a far more diverse range of products, including restraints, weapons, and armor.

=Glassmaking and [[minecart]]s=
In a typical fortress, [[magma]] is located deep below, while sand is a soil layer and thus without some creative management is just below ground. Without minecarts, each sand bag will be carried by a single dwarf, thus requiring a lot of dwarf labor and wide staircases. With minecarts one can not only transport a lot of sand bags to the magma furnace without much dwarftime wasted on hauling, but also transport all the glass products back up. If set up, the track can be also used to supply (and grab from) [[magma smelter]] which is likely to be located close to [[magma glass furnace]].
If one is too lazy to set up a track, minecart system can be easily used simply to haul all the sand bags in a convenient container (requires a wooden minecart). If both endpoints are set to '''guide''', but are left disconnected, dwarves will just grab the minecart and haul it to destination. Since sand bags and wooden minecarts are both reasonably light, the dwarf won't slow down much.
{{Category|Industry}}
{{Industry}}

v0.34:Glass industry

2014-04-08T20:39:43Z

Kydo: /* vs. Metalworking */

{{quality|Exceptional|14:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)}}{{av}}

The '''Glass Industry''' is a versatile and, under the right circumstances, sustainable source of items. Everything from [[finished goods]] to [[furniture]] to low value [[glass]] [[gem]]s to [[block]]s to [[trap component]]s can be created in [[glass]], making [[Glassmaker]] a very useful profession. Since glass is [[magma-safe]] and capable of producing all necessary [[screw pump]] components, a glassmaking industry can prove quite valuable when working with [[magma]].

=Producing glass=
The limiting factors to [[glass]] production are [[sand]] and [[fuel]]; in order to produce glass in great quantities your map must have sand and either a good source of coal, magma or many trees. Small quantities of sand can regularly be acquired from [[caravan]]s, but rarely enough to run a large industry. Soil layers may or may not include sand; there is no way to tell if your map will provide it until you embark (other than [[cheating]]). If you want to ensure the possibility of a flourishing glass industry, embark on a [[sand desert]] or [[badlands]] biome. Keep in mind these biomes by themselves don't have [[tree]]s to [[fuel]] your furnaces early on.

To make items from glass, sand must first be gathered in [[bag]]s using a task available at any [[glass furnace]], "Gather Sand". You must designate a [[activity zone|Sand Collection zone]] from the ({{k|i}})-menu that includes an accessible area of sand in order for this task to be performed. Only cut glass "gems" (and [[artifact]]s) can be made from raw glass purchased from [[caravan]]s. All other glass objects must be made from "sand bearing items", i.e. bags of sand.

Once you have one bag of sand you can order glass to be created at a furnace. A standard [[glass furnace]] will consume one unit of [[fuel]] per job; a [[magma glass furnace]] uses no fuel.

==Collecting sand==
All sustainable types of glassmaking require a [[container|bag]] of [[sand]]. The "Collect [[Sand]]" order at the glass furnace requires the "[[hauling#Item_hauling|item hauling]]" labor, not glassmaking. The Collect Sand order does however still occupy the glass furnace, preventing glassmakers from performing any other jobs there until after the collection has been completed. Collecting sand is a time consuming task, and proficient glassmakers quickly become faster at making items than gathering materials, leading to job cancellations as collected sand becomes scarce.

===Collecting sand efficiently===
There are ways around this problem, each with its own benefits and drawbacks.

====Controlled====
Collect a specific amount of sand bags, then assign the correspondent orders of actual glass making. This ensures that enough bags remain for other tasks and no cancellations happen. It is also the best way to keep an overview of what has actually been produced, especially when using the manager. Time loss is negligible as the bulk of time is consumed by hauling sand.

====Brute force====
The fast, somewhat sloppy method is to build additional glass furnaces near your sand collection zone for the sole purpose of [[repeat]]ing the Collect Sand order while other furnaces are used for actual glassmaking. Keep in mind that ordering glass goods through the [[manager]] will schedule jobs in your sand collection glass furnaces, which can get irritating and interfere with your balance of sand supplies and glassmaking orders. To avoid this, queue ten sand collection jobs and set them all to repeat. This will prevent new jobs from being assigned to the [[furnace]].

'''Benefits:'''
*This method will free up time for your glassmakers to focus on making glass items.

*It is possible to turn off all of your craftsdwarves' hauling labors and let your pack of otherwise useless [[Potash maker|Potash Maker]]s do all the grunt work of filling [[container|bags]].

'''Drawbacks:'''
*This method is hard to balance. Just when you think you have found an equilibrium between supply and demand, a legendary glassmaker goes to sleep and every bag is filled with sand during his absence, resulting in a cascade of canceled bag filling jobs. If you instead order more bags than can be used, hundreds of surplus sand bags will accumulate until you eventually run out of bags or tweak the balance again.

====Slow and easy====
The slightly slower but more controllable method of collecting sand efficiently. Assign each glass furnace to an individual glassmaker, and make sure that the dwarf's item hauling labor is turned on. Stagger work orders so the glassmaker hauls their own sand, then makes their item, then hauls their own sand.

'''Benefits:'''
*Orders can be set to repeat endlessly in the background with no oversight, which is particularly excellent when mass producing [[Gems#Glass|raw glass]] or [[block]]s.

*Usage of bags is set to a minimum, which frees [[cloth]] and [[leather]] for other purposes.

'''Drawbacks:'''
*Tandem job orders like this mean that only five orders can be placed at a time, meaning that orders are placed most effectively as [[repeat]]s. A way around this is to set five different types of tandem orders and [[suspend]] and unsuspend them as desired.

*This method is slower than the brute force method, and doesn't give your horde of idle dwarves anything to do.

*The manager can still be a burden with this system and ruin the balance of labors.

==Varieties of glass==
:*Producing '''green glass''' requires only a bag of sand. Green glass items are [[value|worth]] twice as much as objects made from most [[stone]], making it equivalent to cheap metals like [[copper]] and [[zinc]].

:*Producing '''clear glass''' requires one bar of [[pearlash]] in addition to a bag of sand. Clear glass items are worth five times as much as items made from most stones, making it equivalent to metals like [[bronze]].

:*Producing '''crystal glass''' requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough [[rock crystal]]s, a [[gem]] which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from [[trader]]s will not work for producing crystal glass. Crystal glass is worth ten times as much as objects made from most stones, making it equivalent in value to metals like [[silver]].

See also "[[Glass]]" for a full discussion of the properties of glass items.

==Glass Industry Flowchart==

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Flowchart of the glass industry and its interaction with surrounding industries.]]

=Glassmaking vs. Other Professions=

==vs. Stoneworking==
There is considerable overlap between items produced from [[stone]] at a [[Mason's workshop]], and items produced from glass at glass furnaces. [[Mason]]ry is easier to get running and will [[stone management|clear excess stone]] from your fortress. Glass produces items with a higher base [[value]] (unless you make your masons use flux or [[obsidian]]), and using a [[magma glass furnace]] allows you to make green glass objects without consuming anything but dwarven labor. Glass also provides a [[magma-safe]] alternative, to prepare for magma-based projects before it's discovered or avoid stockpile micromanagement for the correct building materials. Unique stone products which cannot be made of glass are querns/millstones, slabs, crafts, and stone short swords.

==vs. Metalworking==
There are many similarities in the processes between [[metalsmithing]] and glassmaking. Both require fuel, and both require supplementary materials for certain unique products. Additionally, crafts are made directly at the furnace, rather than at a craftsdwarf's workshop. Metalworking is generally more likely to be started first, as any site will eventually find metals and fuel, (if even only in the form of magma) and quality weapons are often needed to start a military, but how much you can make is limited by how much you can dig up or buy. Glassmaking has the potential to produce ''infinite'' products, if given sand, enough bags, and magma. Also, while metal ores are turned into an intermediary material, (bars) by another profession at a different workshop, which must then be forged into a product, glassmaking produces a product directly from the raw materials, and still leaves you with an empty bag. Finally, metalworking has a far more diverse range of products, including restraints, weapons, and armor.

=Glassmaking and [[minecart]]s=
In a typical fortress, [[magma]] is located deep below, while sand is a soil layer and thus without some creative management is just below ground. Without minecarts, each sand bag will be carried by a single dwarf, thus requiring a lot of dwarf labor and wide staircases. With minecarts one can not only transport a lot of sand bags to the magma furnace without much dwarftime wasted on hauling, but also transport all the glass products back up. If set up, the track can be also used to supply (and grab from) [[magma smelter]] which is likely to be located close to [[magma glass furnace]].
If one is too lazy to set up a track, minecart system can be easily used simply to haul all the sand bags in a convenient container (requires a wooden minecart). If both endpoints are set to '''guide''', but are left disconnected, dwarves will just grab the minecart and haul it to destination. Since sand bags and wooden minecarts are both reasonably light, the dwarf won't slow down much.
{{Category|Industry}}
{{Industry}}

v0.34:Glass industry

2014-04-08T20:36:36Z

Kydo: /* Glassmaking vs. Masonry */

{{quality|Exceptional|14:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)}}{{av}}

The '''Glass Industry''' is a versatile and, under the right circumstances, sustainable source of items. Everything from [[finished goods]] to [[furniture]] to low value [[glass]] [[gem]]s to [[block]]s to [[trap component]]s can be created in [[glass]], making [[Glassmaker]] a very useful profession. Since glass is [[magma-safe]] and capable of producing all necessary [[screw pump]] components, a glassmaking industry can prove quite valuable when working with [[magma]].

=Producing glass=
The limiting factors to [[glass]] production are [[sand]] and [[fuel]]; in order to produce glass in great quantities your map must have sand and either a good source of coal, magma or many trees. Small quantities of sand can regularly be acquired from [[caravan]]s, but rarely enough to run a large industry. Soil layers may or may not include sand; there is no way to tell if your map will provide it until you embark (other than [[cheating]]). If you want to ensure the possibility of a flourishing glass industry, embark on a [[sand desert]] or [[badlands]] biome. Keep in mind these biomes by themselves don't have [[tree]]s to [[fuel]] your furnaces early on.

To make items from glass, sand must first be gathered in [[bag]]s using a task available at any [[glass furnace]], "Gather Sand". You must designate a [[activity zone|Sand Collection zone]] from the ({{k|i}})-menu that includes an accessible area of sand in order for this task to be performed. Only cut glass "gems" (and [[artifact]]s) can be made from raw glass purchased from [[caravan]]s. All other glass objects must be made from "sand bearing items", i.e. bags of sand.

Once you have one bag of sand you can order glass to be created at a furnace. A standard [[glass furnace]] will consume one unit of [[fuel]] per job; a [[magma glass furnace]] uses no fuel.

==Collecting sand==
All sustainable types of glassmaking require a [[container|bag]] of [[sand]]. The "Collect [[Sand]]" order at the glass furnace requires the "[[hauling#Item_hauling|item hauling]]" labor, not glassmaking. The Collect Sand order does however still occupy the glass furnace, preventing glassmakers from performing any other jobs there until after the collection has been completed. Collecting sand is a time consuming task, and proficient glassmakers quickly become faster at making items than gathering materials, leading to job cancellations as collected sand becomes scarce.

===Collecting sand efficiently===
There are ways around this problem, each with its own benefits and drawbacks.

====Controlled====
Collect a specific amount of sand bags, then assign the correspondent orders of actual glass making. This ensures that enough bags remain for other tasks and no cancellations happen. It is also the best way to keep an overview of what has actually been produced, especially when using the manager. Time loss is negligible as the bulk of time is consumed by hauling sand.

====Brute force====
The fast, somewhat sloppy method is to build additional glass furnaces near your sand collection zone for the sole purpose of [[repeat]]ing the Collect Sand order while other furnaces are used for actual glassmaking. Keep in mind that ordering glass goods through the [[manager]] will schedule jobs in your sand collection glass furnaces, which can get irritating and interfere with your balance of sand supplies and glassmaking orders. To avoid this, queue ten sand collection jobs and set them all to repeat. This will prevent new jobs from being assigned to the [[furnace]].

'''Benefits:'''
*This method will free up time for your glassmakers to focus on making glass items.

*It is possible to turn off all of your craftsdwarves' hauling labors and let your pack of otherwise useless [[Potash maker|Potash Maker]]s do all the grunt work of filling [[container|bags]].

'''Drawbacks:'''
*This method is hard to balance. Just when you think you have found an equilibrium between supply and demand, a legendary glassmaker goes to sleep and every bag is filled with sand during his absence, resulting in a cascade of canceled bag filling jobs. If you instead order more bags than can be used, hundreds of surplus sand bags will accumulate until you eventually run out of bags or tweak the balance again.

====Slow and easy====
The slightly slower but more controllable method of collecting sand efficiently. Assign each glass furnace to an individual glassmaker, and make sure that the dwarf's item hauling labor is turned on. Stagger work orders so the glassmaker hauls their own sand, then makes their item, then hauls their own sand.

'''Benefits:'''
*Orders can be set to repeat endlessly in the background with no oversight, which is particularly excellent when mass producing [[Gems#Glass|raw glass]] or [[block]]s.

*Usage of bags is set to a minimum, which frees [[cloth]] and [[leather]] for other purposes.

'''Drawbacks:'''
*Tandem job orders like this mean that only five orders can be placed at a time, meaning that orders are placed most effectively as [[repeat]]s. A way around this is to set five different types of tandem orders and [[suspend]] and unsuspend them as desired.

*This method is slower than the brute force method, and doesn't give your horde of idle dwarves anything to do.

*The manager can still be a burden with this system and ruin the balance of labors.

==Varieties of glass==
:*Producing '''green glass''' requires only a bag of sand. Green glass items are [[value|worth]] twice as much as objects made from most [[stone]], making it equivalent to cheap metals like [[copper]] and [[zinc]].

:*Producing '''clear glass''' requires one bar of [[pearlash]] in addition to a bag of sand. Clear glass items are worth five times as much as items made from most stones, making it equivalent to metals like [[bronze]].

:*Producing '''crystal glass''' requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough [[rock crystal]]s, a [[gem]] which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from [[trader]]s will not work for producing crystal glass. Crystal glass is worth ten times as much as objects made from most stones, making it equivalent in value to metals like [[silver]].

See also "[[Glass]]" for a full discussion of the properties of glass items.

==Glass Industry Flowchart==

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Flowchart of the glass industry and its interaction with surrounding industries.]]

=Glassmaking vs. Other Professions=

==vs. Stoneworking==
There is considerable overlap between items produced from [[stone]] at a [[Mason's workshop]], and items produced from glass at glass furnaces. [[Mason]]ry is easier to get running and will [[stone management|clear excess stone]] from your fortress. Glass produces items with a higher base [[value]] (unless you make your masons use flux or [[obsidian]]), and using a [[magma glass furnace]] allows you to make green glass objects without consuming anything but dwarven labor. Glass also provides a [[magma-safe]] alternative, to prepare for magma-based projects before it's discovered or avoid stockpile micromanagement for the correct building materials. Unique stone products which cannot be made of glass are querns/millstones, slabs, crafts, and stone short swords.

==vs. Metalworking==
There are many similarities in the processes between [[metalsmithing]] and glassmaking. Both require fuel, and both require supplementary materials for certain unique products. Additionally, crafts are made directly at the furnace, rather than at a craftsdwarf's workshop. Metalworking is generally more likely to be started first, as any site will eventually find metals and fuel, (if even only in the form of magma) and quality weapons are often needed to start a military, but how much you can make is limited by how much you can dig up or buy. Glassmaking has the potential to produce ''infinite'' products, if given sand, enough bags, and magma. Also, while metal ores are turned into an intermediary material, (bars) which must then be forged into a product, glassmaking produces a product directly from the raw materials, and still leaves you with an empty bag. Finally, metalworking has a far more diverse range of products, including restraints, weapons, and armor.

=Glassmaking and [[minecart]]s=
In a typical fortress, [[magma]] is located deep below, while sand is a soil layer and thus without some creative management is just below ground. Without minecarts, each sand bag will be carried by a single dwarf, thus requiring a lot of dwarf labor and wide staircases. With minecarts one can not only transport a lot of sand bags to the magma furnace without much dwarftime wasted on hauling, but also transport all the glass products back up. If set up, the track can be also used to supply (and grab from) [[magma smelter]] which is likely to be located close to [[magma glass furnace]].
If one is too lazy to set up a track, minecart system can be easily used simply to haul all the sand bags in a convenient container (requires a wooden minecart). If both endpoints are set to '''guide''', but are left disconnected, dwarves will just grab the minecart and haul it to destination. Since sand bags and wooden minecarts are both reasonably light, the dwarf won't slow down much.
{{Category|Industry}}
{{Industry}}

File:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png

2014-04-08T20:21:09Z

Kydo:

Created to streamline the former glass industry flowchart, which improved on inaccuracies on the even older version which did not represent the 2012 version of the game.
In this version, the clear and crystal glass colours have been swapped, to reflect their actual in-game material colours.

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T20:20:22Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

31d [[v0.31:Glass industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

I am planning on revising the new [[DF2012:Glass industry|glass industry]] flow chart to show literal interactions, eliminate flow line crossovers, and establish a unidirectional flow, all for clarity.

And there it is! I swapped the clear and crystal colours to reflect their actual material colours in-game.

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Thumb|200px]]

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T20:19:10Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

31d [[v0.31:Glass industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

I am planning on revising the new [[DF2012:Glass industry|glass industry]] flow chart to show literal interactions, eliminate flow line crossovers, and establish a unidirectional flow, all for clarity.

And there it is!

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Thumb|200px]]

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T20:17:41Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T20:16:30Z

Kydo:

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

[[v0.31:Glass industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

I am planning on revising the new [[DF2012:Glass industry|glass industry]] flow chart to show literal interactions, eliminate flow line crossovers, and establish a unidirectional flow, all for clarity.

And there it is!

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png]]

v0.34 Talk:Glass industry

2014-04-08T20:14:11Z

Kydo: /* Glass Industry flowchart */

== Glass Industry flowchart ==

:''This discussion has been copied from [[Talk:Main Page]]''

I apologize in advance for posting here my predicament, but this seemed like the only adequate place where I could post this without creating an account.

So, my problem with the Glass Industry flowchart (and, overall, the Glass Industry page) is that it is somewhat misleading regarding the production of vials. Vials require sand, not "pure" glass, in order to be produced. I noticed that my dwarves complained a lot about not being able to produce vials although having tonnes of green glass. For all that it's worth, there isn't a page describing how a vial is made. Typing vial in the searchbox redirects me to the Flask page, where it erroneously (at least from this point of view) states that it is produced from glass.

I'm not sure whether there are more items produced directly from sand, rather than producing the glass first.

I thank you for the attention given to this problem. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:217.129.96.108|217.129.96.108]]

:Indeed, most glass items in the current version (0.34.11) require a bag of sand instead of raw glass (such as glass purchased from caravans). In fact, that flowchart dates back to [[v0.31:Glass industry|the v0.31 article]], which seems to be outdated for the current version. [[User:Kydo]] was the creator of the original flowchart, but has been inactive for over 2 years. If it helps to avoid confusion, I could attempt to create a new one (although I can't guarantee perfection). --{{User:Lethosor/sig}} 00:59, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

::Well, I've refreshed the flowchart to match what the DF2012 process is. I was the guy that posted this in the first place, so it seems fit for me to care about the whole process.--[[User:Doktoro Reichard|Doktoro Reichard]] ([[User talk:Doktoro Reichard|talk]]) 04:19, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

:::Hello! I have returned! And I'm less of a jerk now! Ok, so, When I made that flow chart, I never actually tested any of it, I just built a glass furnace and made a few blocks after looking over its menu. Honestly, it took me a few read-throughs of that post to understand what the distinction really was. ("Made from sand means made of glass, therefore being made from glass is the same thing." Was my thought.) But, you are right, my flowchart is outdated. That new one sure is stylin', though! Reminds me of the Bulbapedia aesthetic! If you don't mind me doing so, I could rearrange your artistry for some visual clarity? (Also, my wiki-fu is a little rusty, please don't mind any repetitive re-editing of my own messages.) --Kydo 03:50, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

::::Ok, I uploaded a reinterpretation of the former design, which shows the direct production of glass goods from raw base materials, has an overall downward flow, and maintains that spiffy style and generally more efficient layout from the previous version. Any comments? --Kydo 20:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

v0.34:Glass industry

2014-04-08T20:11:56Z

Kydo: /* Glass Industry Flowchart */

{{quality|Exceptional|14:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)}}{{av}}

The '''Glass Industry''' is a versatile and, under the right circumstances, sustainable source of items. Everything from [[finished goods]] to [[furniture]] to low value [[glass]] [[gem]]s to [[block]]s to [[trap component]]s can be created in [[glass]], making [[Glassmaker]] a very useful profession. Since glass is [[magma-safe]] and capable of producing all necessary [[screw pump]] components, a glassmaking industry can prove quite valuable when working with [[magma]].

=Producing glass=
The limiting factors to [[glass]] production are [[sand]] and [[fuel]]; in order to produce glass in great quantities your map must have sand and either a good source of coal, magma or many trees. Small quantities of sand can regularly be acquired from [[caravan]]s, but rarely enough to run a large industry. Soil layers may or may not include sand; there is no way to tell if your map will provide it until you embark (other than [[cheating]]). If you want to ensure the possibility of a flourishing glass industry, embark on a [[sand desert]] or [[badlands]] biome. Keep in mind these biomes by themselves don't have [[tree]]s to [[fuel]] your furnaces early on.

To make items from glass, sand must first be gathered in [[bag]]s using a task available at any [[glass furnace]], "Gather Sand". You must designate a [[activity zone|Sand Collection zone]] from the ({{k|i}})-menu that includes an accessible area of sand in order for this task to be performed. Only cut glass "gems" (and [[artifact]]s) can be made from raw glass purchased from [[caravan]]s. All other glass objects must be made from "sand bearing items", i.e. bags of sand.

Once you have one bag of sand you can order glass to be created at a furnace. A standard [[glass furnace]] will consume one unit of [[fuel]] per job; a [[magma glass furnace]] uses no fuel.

==Collecting sand==
All sustainable types of glassmaking require a [[container|bag]] of [[sand]]. The "Collect [[Sand]]" order at the glass furnace requires the "[[hauling#Item_hauling|item hauling]]" labor, not glassmaking. The Collect Sand order does however still occupy the glass furnace, preventing glassmakers from performing any other jobs there until after the collection has been completed. Collecting sand is a time consuming task, and proficient glassmakers quickly become faster at making items than gathering materials, leading to job cancellations as collected sand becomes scarce.

===Collecting sand efficiently===
There are ways around this problem, each with its own benefits and drawbacks.

====Controlled====
Collect a specific amount of sand bags, then assign the correspondent orders of actual glass making. This ensures that enough bags remain for other tasks and no cancellations happen. It is also the best way to keep an overview of what has actually been produced, especially when using the manager. Time loss is negligible as the bulk of time is consumed by hauling sand.

====Brute force====
The fast, somewhat sloppy method is to build additional glass furnaces near your sand collection zone for the sole purpose of [[repeat]]ing the Collect Sand order while other furnaces are used for actual glassmaking. Keep in mind that ordering glass goods through the [[manager]] will schedule jobs in your sand collection glass furnaces, which can get irritating and interfere with your balance of sand supplies and glassmaking orders. To avoid this, queue ten sand collection jobs and set them all to repeat. This will prevent new jobs from being assigned to the [[furnace]].

'''Benefits:'''
*This method will free up time for your glassmakers to focus on making glass items.

*It is possible to turn off all of your craftsdwarves' hauling labors and let your pack of otherwise useless [[Potash maker|Potash Maker]]s do all the grunt work of filling [[container|bags]].

'''Drawbacks:'''
*This method is hard to balance. Just when you think you have found an equilibrium between supply and demand, a legendary glassmaker goes to sleep and every bag is filled with sand during his absence, resulting in a cascade of canceled bag filling jobs. If you instead order more bags than can be used, hundreds of surplus sand bags will accumulate until you eventually run out of bags or tweak the balance again.

====Slow and easy====
The slightly slower but more controllable method of collecting sand efficiently. Assign each glass furnace to an individual glassmaker, and make sure that the dwarf's item hauling labor is turned on. Stagger work orders so the glassmaker hauls their own sand, then makes their item, then hauls their own sand.

'''Benefits:'''
*Orders can be set to repeat endlessly in the background with no oversight, which is particularly excellent when mass producing [[Gems#Glass|raw glass]] or [[block]]s.

*Usage of bags is set to a minimum, which frees [[cloth]] and [[leather]] for other purposes.

'''Drawbacks:'''
*Tandem job orders like this mean that only five orders can be placed at a time, meaning that orders are placed most effectively as [[repeat]]s. A way around this is to set five different types of tandem orders and [[suspend]] and unsuspend them as desired.

*This method is slower than the brute force method, and doesn't give your horde of idle dwarves anything to do.

*The manager can still be a burden with this system and ruin the balance of labors.

==Varieties of glass==
:*Producing '''green glass''' requires only a bag of sand. Green glass items are [[value|worth]] twice as much as objects made from most [[stone]], making it equivalent to cheap metals like [[copper]] and [[zinc]].

:*Producing '''clear glass''' requires one bar of [[pearlash]] in addition to a bag of sand. Clear glass items are worth five times as much as items made from most stones, making it equivalent to metals like [[bronze]].

:*Producing '''crystal glass''' requires no sand, but does require pearlash and rough [[rock crystal]]s, a [[gem]] which is not found on all maps. Cut rock crystals bought from [[trader]]s will not work for producing crystal glass. Crystal glass is worth ten times as much as objects made from most stones, making it equivalent in value to metals like [[silver]].

See also "[[Glass]]" for a full discussion of the properties of glass items.

==Glass Industry Flowchart==

[[Image:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png|Flowchart of the glass industry and its interaction with surrounding industries.]]

=Glassmaking vs. Masonry=
There is considerable overlap between items produced from [[stone]] at a [[Mason's workshop]], and items produced from glass at glass furnaces. [[Mason]]ry is easier to get running and will [[stone management|clear excess stone]] from your fortress. Glass produces items with a higher base [[value]] (unless you make your masons use flux or [[obsidian]]), and using a [[magma glass furnace]] allows you to make green glass objects without consuming anything but dwarven labor. Glass also provides a [[magma-safe]] alternative, to prepare for magma-based projects before it's discovered or avoid stockpile micromanagement for the correct building materials.

=Glassmaking and [[minecart]]s=
In a typical fortress, [[magma]] is located deep below, while sand is a soil layer and thus without some creative management is just below ground. Without minecarts, each sand bag will be carried by a single dwarf, thus requiring a lot of dwarf labor and wide staircases. With minecarts one can not only transport a lot of sand bags to the magma furnace without much dwarftime wasted on hauling, but also transport all the glass products back up. If set up, the track can be also used to supply (and grab from) [[magma smelter]] which is likely to be located close to [[magma glass furnace]].
If one is too lazy to set up a track, minecart system can be easily used simply to haul all the sand bags in a convenient container (requires a wooden minecart). If both endpoints are set to '''guide''', but are left disconnected, dwarves will just grab the minecart and haul it to destination. Since sand bags and wooden minecarts are both reasonably light, the dwarf won't slow down much.
{{Category|Industry}}
{{Industry}}

File:Glass Industry 2012 Update.png

2014-04-08T20:10:46Z

Kydo: Created to streamline the former glass industry flowchart, which improved on inaccuracies on the even older version which did not represent the 2012 version of the game.

Created to streamline the former glass industry flowchart, which improved on inaccuracies on the even older version which did not represent the 2012 version of the game.

v0.34 Talk:Glass

2014-04-08T19:51:41Z

Kydo:

"And possibly other things", eh? That's pretty vague. I'm exploring the glass industry as a whole in detail right now. I'll update it to be more specific when I'm done. --Kydo 19:21, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

:Ok, updated. Glass has more in common with stone working than wood, as far as products go, and more in common with metalworking as far as the process goes, such as how crafts are made at the furnace, rather than at the craftsdwarf's workshop. It's like a weird half breed between the two. --Kydo 19:51, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

v0.34:Glass

2014-04-08T19:47:24Z

Kydo: /* Uses */

{{quality|Exceptional|22:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)}}{{av}}

Glass is produced at the [[glass furnace]] using [[fuel]] with either [[sand]] (green glass), sand and [[pearlash]] (clear glass), or [[rock crystal]] and pearlash (crystal glass). A [[magma glass furnace]] can also be used, in which case no fuel is required. Raw glass (of all three types) can also be acquired from some [[trading|trade]] caravans and be purchased in the [[embark]] screen. Note that raw glass can '''''not''''' be made into glass items (excluding [[strange mood]]s), but can only be [[gem cutting|cut]] into [[gem]]-like items which can be used for [[decoration|decorating]] items - you have to buy or collect [[sand]] to get the raw materials to make glass.

Glass value corresponds to the difficulty of its production, with green glass having the lowest material value (2), clear glass intermediate (5), and crystal glass the highest (10).

== Uses ==
Glass can be used for most things that can be produced at a [[mason's workshop]], (with the exception of slabs, querns and millstones). It can also produce goods normally made at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] by a [[stonecrafter]], with the exception of obsidian short swords and generic crafts. In addition, it may be made as raw glass, which can then be cut as a gem at a [[jeweler's workshop]] by a [[gem cutter]], in a similar fashion to cutting generic stones. These, especially ones made of green glass, are excellent practice for aspiring jewelers (and their production provides experience for [[glassmaker]]s). Glass can also be made as [[block]]s which can be used to build [[workshop]]s and [[construction]]s. You can even make glass trap components. Unique goods made from glass include glass windows and vials, as well as renamed versions of common furniture.

For more information on the use of glass, see the [[Glass industry]] page.

Raw and cut glass storage options can be found under the Gem [[stockpile]] sub-menu. Glass blocks are stored in Bar/Block stockpiles.

==Glass and magma==
Glass behaves somewhat oddly with [[magma]], despite being strictly magma-safe (with a melting point of {{ct|13600}}) - glass objects dropped into magma tend to disappear instantly (a property seemingly shared by every organic material), but '''built''' glass furniture will survive indefinitely when covered with magma.

==Physical properties==
Through memory hacking, the material properties of each type of glass have been determined; for reference, they have been reconstructed below as material definitions:

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_GREEN}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CLEAR}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CRYSTAL}}}}

==See also==
*[[Glass industry]]
*[[Glassmaker]]

{{Category|Materials}}

v0.34:Glass

2014-04-08T19:45:58Z

Kydo: /* Uses */

{{quality|Exceptional|22:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)}}{{av}}

Glass is produced at the [[glass furnace]] using [[fuel]] with either [[sand]] (green glass), sand and [[pearlash]] (clear glass), or [[rock crystal]] and pearlash (crystal glass). A [[magma glass furnace]] can also be used, in which case no fuel is required. Raw glass (of all three types) can also be acquired from some [[trading|trade]] caravans and be purchased in the [[embark]] screen. Note that raw glass can '''''not''''' be made into glass items (excluding [[strange mood]]s), but can only be [[gem cutting|cut]] into [[gem]]-like items which can be used for [[decoration|decorating]] items - you have to buy or collect [[sand]] to get the raw materials to make glass.

Glass value corresponds to the difficulty of its production, with green glass having the lowest material value (2), clear glass intermediate (5), and crystal glass the highest (10).

== Uses ==
Glass can be used for most things that can be produced at a [[mason's workshop]], (with the exception of slabs, querns and millstones). It can also produce goods normally made at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] by a [[stonecrafter]], with the exception of obsidian short swords and generic crafts. In addition, it may be made as raw glass, which can then be cut as a gem at a [[jeweler's workshop]] by a [[gem cutter]], in a similar fashion to cutting generic stones. These, especially ones made of green glass, are excellent practice for aspiring jewelers (and their production provides experience for [[glassmaker]]s). Glass can also be made as [[block]]s which can be used to build [[workshop]]s and [[construction]]s. You can even make glass trap components.

For more information on the use of glass, see the [[Glass industry]] page.

Raw and cut glass storage options can be found under the Gem [[stockpile]] sub-menu. Glass blocks are stored in Bar/Block stockpiles.

==Glass and magma==
Glass behaves somewhat oddly with [[magma]], despite being strictly magma-safe (with a melting point of {{ct|13600}}) - glass objects dropped into magma tend to disappear instantly (a property seemingly shared by every organic material), but '''built''' glass furniture will survive indefinitely when covered with magma.

==Physical properties==
Through memory hacking, the material properties of each type of glass have been determined; for reference, they have been reconstructed below as material definitions:

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_GREEN}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CLEAR}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CRYSTAL}}}}

==See also==
*[[Glass industry]]
*[[Glassmaker]]

{{Category|Materials}}

v0.34:Glass

2014-04-08T19:45:24Z

Kydo:

{{quality|Exceptional|22:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)}}{{av}}

Glass is produced at the [[glass furnace]] using [[fuel]] with either [[sand]] (green glass), sand and [[pearlash]] (clear glass), or [[rock crystal]] and pearlash (crystal glass). A [[magma glass furnace]] can also be used, in which case no fuel is required. Raw glass (of all three types) can also be acquired from some [[trading|trade]] caravans and be purchased in the [[embark]] screen. Note that raw glass can '''''not''''' be made into glass items (excluding [[strange mood]]s), but can only be [[gem cutting|cut]] into [[gem]]-like items which can be used for [[decoration|decorating]] items - you have to buy or collect [[sand]] to get the raw materials to make glass.

Glass value corresponds to the difficulty of its production, with green glass having the lowest material value (2), clear glass intermediate (5), and crystal glass the highest (10).

== Uses ==
Glass can be used for most things that can be produced at a [[mason's workshop]], (with the exception of slabs, querns and millstones). It can also produce goods normally made at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] by a [[stonecrafter]], with the exception of obsidian short swords and generic crafts. In addition, it may made as raw glass, which can then be cut as a gem at a [[jeweler's workshop]] by a [[gem cutter]], in a similar fashion to cutting generic stones. These, especially ones made of green glass, are excellent practice for aspiring jewelers (and their production provides experience for [[glassmaker]]s). Glass can also be made as [[block]]s which can be used to build [[workshop]]s and [[construction]]s. You can even make glass trap components.

For more information on the use of glass, see the [[Glass industry]] page.

Raw and cut glass storage options can be found under the Gem [[stockpile]] sub-menu. Glass blocks are stored in Bar/Block stockpiles.

==Glass and magma==
Glass behaves somewhat oddly with [[magma]], despite being strictly magma-safe (with a melting point of {{ct|13600}}) - glass objects dropped into magma tend to disappear instantly (a property seemingly shared by every organic material), but '''built''' glass furniture will survive indefinitely when covered with magma.

==Physical properties==
Through memory hacking, the material properties of each type of glass have been determined; for reference, they have been reconstructed below as material definitions:

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_GREEN}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CLEAR}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CRYSTAL}}}}

==See also==
*[[Glass industry]]
*[[Glassmaker]]

{{Category|Materials}}

v0.34:Glass

2014-04-08T19:43:09Z

Kydo: /* Uses */

{{quality|Exceptional|22:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)}}{{av}}

Glass is produced at the [[glass furnace]] using [[fuel]] with either [[sand]] (green glass), sand and [[pearlash]] (clear glass), or [[rock crystal]] and pearlash (crystal glass). A [[magma glass furnace]] can also be used, in which case no fuel is required. Raw glass (of all three types) can also be acquired from some [[trading|trade]] caravans and be purchased in the [[embark]] screen. Note that raw glass can '''''not''''' be made into glass items (excluding [[strange mood]]s), but can only be [[gem cutting|cut]] into [[gem]]-like items which can be used for [[decoration|decorating]] items - you have to buy or collect [[sand]] to get the raw materials to make glass.

Glass value corresponds to the difficulty of its production, with green glass having the lowest material value (2), clear glass intermediate (5), and crystal glass the highest (10).

== Uses ==
A [[glass furnace]] can create most things that can be produced at a [[mason's workshop]], (with the exception of slabs, querns and millstones). It can also produce goods normally made at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] by a [[stonecrafter]], with the exception of obsidian short swords and generic crafts. In addition, it may be used to produce raw glass, which can then be cut as a gem at a [[jeweler's workshop]] by a [[gem cutter]], in a similar fashion to cutting generic stones. These, especially ones made of green glass, are excellent practice for aspiring jewelers (and their production provides experience for [[glassmaker]]s). Glass can also be made as [[block]]s which can be used to build [[workshop]]s and [[construction]]s. You can even make glass trap components.

For more information on the use of glass, see the [[Glass industry]] page.

Raw and cut glass storage options can be found under the Gem [[stockpile]] sub-menu. Glass blocks are stored in Bar/Block stockpiles.

==Glass and magma==
Glass behaves somewhat oddly with [[magma]], despite being strictly magma-safe (with a melting point of {{ct|13600}}) - glass objects dropped into magma tend to disappear instantly (a property seemingly shared by every organic material), but '''built''' glass furniture will survive indefinitely when covered with magma.

==Physical properties==
Through memory hacking, the material properties of each type of glass have been determined; for reference, they have been reconstructed below as material definitions:

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_GREEN}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CLEAR}}}}

{{gamedata|{{raw|DF2012:hardcoded_materials.txt|MATERIAL|GLASS_CRYSTAL}}}}

==See also==
*[[Glass industry]]
*[[Glassmaker]]

{{Category|Materials}}

v0.34 Talk:Glass

2014-04-08T19:21:44Z

Kydo: Created page with ""And possibly other things", eh? That's pretty vague. I'm exploring the glass industry as a whole in detail right now. I'll update it to be more specific when I'm done. --~~~~"

v0.34:Glassmaker

2014-04-08T19:13:03Z

Kydo:

{{quality|Exceptional|19:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)}}
{{Skill
| color = 1:1
| skill = Glassmaker
| profession = [[Craftsdwarf]]
| job name = [[Glassmaking]]
| tasks =
* Make raw glass
* Construct glass furniture
* Make glass goblet
* Make glass toy
* Make glass instrument
* Make glass [[vial]]
* Make glass tube
* Make glass [[window]]
* Make glass trap component
| workshop =
* Glass furnace
* Magma glass furnace
| attributes =
* Strength
* Agility
* Endurance
* Creativity
* Spatial Sense
* Kinesthetic Sense
}}
{{av}}

'''Glassmaker''' is the skill associated with the glassmaking [[labor]]. Glassmakers make [[glass]] [[furniture]], [[container]]s, [[block]]s, [[trap component]]s, [[gem|raw glass gems]], some [[pipe section|machine component]]s and most [[crafts|craft items]], (All but generic "crafts", which are actually made by a gem cutter.) at a [[glass furnace]] or [[magma glass furnace]]

Glassmaker [[skill|skill level]] is used to determine the [[quality]] of the created good. The type of glass also determines the base value of the final product.

Glassmakers can produce nearly everything for a fortress as part of the [[glass industry]]. Using a magma glass furnace can produce green glass indefinitely without consuming anything but dwarven labor.

{{Skills}}

v0.34 Talk:Glassmaker

2014-04-08T19:10:13Z

Kydo: Created page with "It should probably be mentioned that there is no actual "make X glass crafts" option available at the glass furnace- or anywhere for that mater. Glass Crafts, (figurines, ring..."

It should probably be mentioned that there is no actual "make X glass crafts" option available at the glass furnace- or anywhere for that mater. Glass Crafts, (figurines, rings, earrings, amulets, bracelets, crowns, and scepters) are an occasional byproduct from gem cutting raw glass. --Kydo 19:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T16:51:11Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

[[v0.31:Glass industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

I am planning on revising the new [[DF2012:Glass industry|glass industry]] flow chart to show literal interactions, eliminate flow line crossovers, and establish a unidirectional flow, all for clarity.

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T16:48:52Z

Kydo: /* Wiki Stuff */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

[[Glass Industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

I am planning on revising the new glass industry flow chart to show literal interactions, eliminate flow line crossovers, and establish a unidirectional flow, all for clarity.

User:Kydo

2014-04-08T16:47:35Z

Kydo: /* Current Fortress */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

== Wiki Stuff ==

[[Glass Industry|Glass Industry Flowchart]] designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

v0.34 Talk:Glass industry

2014-04-08T03:50:59Z

Kydo: /* Glass Industry flowchart */

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2011-01-16T19:33:19Z

Kydo: /* Well-Tower */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when water enters that tile. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh, crap, looking back, I need to do a minor update to this. Mud still isn't a contaminant, but contaminants have become much more complicated. I don't remember reading about that being implemented, but there it is! I guess I'll have to build even more experiments... Damn. The nature of contaminants is weird. Some will mix with water, while others just appear as small piles and don't actually seem to interact with water at all! --Kydo 07:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: I am telling you, I have taken water from a brook, through a well, and seen "stagnant water" listed in buckets. Perhaps I jumped to conclusions about the mud, but I have stagnant water in buckets. Okay, maybe they filled the buckets from a pool rather than the well, but until I put in a grate, ALL I had was stagnant water. Every single drop in every bucket was stagnant. After the grate, none of it was. Please do not jump to the conclusion that someone seeing something different than you must be mistaken, this game changes very quickly and new releases introduce new mechanics. At least have the decency to do some tests with the latest version before crying "Wrong!!" [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:29, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I am using the latest version. I just never read anything about any contaminants update at any point, and it never really came up in any of my fortresses, as my dwarves never get bloody, rarely bathe, and mud has no effect on wells. Thus, I didn't even think water contaminants existed until this came up! I'm sorry I was rather nasty to you. It was completely uncalled for. --Kydo 03:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
* I'm posting further discussion over at [[DF2010_Talk:Well]] to avoid duplication of arguments. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Well-Tower ==
'' A well tower may indeed be cool.''
To what purpose would a well-tower serve, and why should it be listed in this guide? This seems impractical, by all means, and although some players may build them it seems more ornamental than anything else. --[[User:RadGH|RadGH]] 07:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Although it offers no real use it encourages newer users to be creative and try new and crazy things. The statement doesn't even announce that it would serve any purpose it only stated it would be "cool". [[User:Mystery|Mystery]] 07:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Uses for a well tower:
1. The experimental models used to make the information on this page were mostly enormous well towers of different styles.
2. You may use the water source in the high reservoir as a source for practically infinite water pressure for things such as world-flooding weapons.
3. If your base is really tall and you want a well at a higher level, with it's reservoir directly below the well opening, most likely due to poor planning.
4. It would be cool, because if you manage to build it without flooding your fortress, it's quite an accomplishment.
--Kydo 19:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-30T06:51:32Z

Kydo: /* Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE */

==Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE==

Two quote the contaminant page:

Water that {{l|flow|flows}} over contaminants can pick them up and redistribute them as the water moves. Water does not appear to move mud, although mud will be created any time water covers a tile. The mechanics of redistributing contaminants using water is not well understood although there have been some observations of strange behavior when mixing blood and water.

And I can speak from experience, I have NEVER seen water move mud. I'm even running tests of it in my well guide fortress, there's no signs of any mud contaminating the water. The dwarves are fine with the water coming out of a well situated directly over a pile of mud. Whoever is making these claims about filtering mud with grates and bars needs to lurk (and experiment) moar. Even if mud were a functioning contaminant like blood, water just makes more mud as soon as it touches a floor tile, which means ALL water would be eternally muddy! Even after being "filtered" through a grate! --Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Further experimentation shows that water moves mud around a room, redistributing it. Mud will be in different piles when a room dries than before. You are correct that cleaned water will pick up more mud from unsmoothed floors. But who uses unsmoothed floors in their water system, you want it blocked up with 'shrooms? The "stagnant" modifier must be an invisible contaminant. I was confused by the fact that mud will collect on grates, and a I smooth my floors. What version are you playing? Do you have a "liquids" category in the first page of your stocks screen? What is listed there? Perhaps I'm not the only one who needs to experiment more, yeah? Or maybe you just need to update your executables so you are playing the same game we are. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down, both of you. This is what my experience is:
* Water can have contaminants.
** Salt is a water contaminant.
*** Salt occurs in water from any source in an oceanic setting (an ocean is present).
*** Salty water is described as "laced with salt" when you view it in a bucket.
** Grime is a water contaminant.
*** Grime occurs in water from murky pools, brooks, and rivers (but not oceans or aquifers).
*** Grimy water is described as "stagnant" when you view it in a bucket.
* Tiles can have contaminants.
** Mud is a tile contaminant.
*** Mud occurs in tiles with water on them.
*** Muddy tiles have "a _____ of mud" present when you loo{{k|k}} at them.
** Blood is a tile contaminant.
*** Blood occurs in tiles with creatures bleeding on them.
*** Bloody tiles have "a _____ of blood" present when you look at them.
* Water can move tile contaminants.
* Water is unaffected by tile contaminants.
** You can't have "bloody" or "muddy" water in a bucket.
* Tiles are unaffected by water contaminants.
** You can't have a "grimy" or "salty" tile.
:Okay? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::No. For one thing, water from rivers and brooks is '''not''' stagnant as long as it is drawn from the actual tiles of the river/brook itself - this is verified easily enough in Adventurer mode by trying to fill your waterskin. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Really? I was just now playing an adventurer, trying to get to a river/brook... and when I finally found a way down to a brook, and tried drinking from it ({{k|e}}), it '''was''' stagnant. Lemme jump an adventurer into a river to see whether that's stagnant too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Just created a new adventurer, found a brook and stood on top of it, and both my {{K|e}}at and f{{K|i}}ll waterskin menus listed "water" rather than "stagnant water". The same was true for a river. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Okay, now THAT is frickin' weird. It took a while, but I found some stagnant brook water... in the same brook as fresh brook water.
<gallery>
Image:Brook_weirdness.PNG|Hmmm... fresh or stagnant, west or east?
Image:Brook_weirdness_2.PNG|The surroundings.
</gallery>
:::It took a while to find... most brooks (and streams, and rivers) do seem to be fresh water. I dunno, maybe it's a biome thing? Wandering up and down stream, there were spots where it was fresh, and spots where it was stagnant. Didn't seem to be any connection to surroundings, as the site isn't listed as separate biomes in fortress mode. Building a fortress, there were still fresh spots and stagnant spots in roughly the same areas (though the murky pools got rearranged). Channelling the brook tiles didn't affect it. Adjacent channels always seem to be stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm pretty sure adventure mode treats water differently than dwarf mode. We've always been able to fill waterskins from murky pools without trouble, even before the contaminants got added, but dwarves have always had a distaste for water drawn through a well over a murky pool or brook tile. Again, even before contaminants were set up, back when salt water was shown by not allowing you to designate open water as a water source area. It was based on what kind of tile the well was situated over, and simply digging one tile out from the side of a pool or brook made the water perfectly fine if drawn from that location with a well. There's a good chance that this is still the case, because if you do dig a new tile for water to flow into, it isn't exactly sitting stagnant any more, is it? I've been testing it, and yeah, it still works. And really, stagnation wouldn't make sense as a contaminant anyways, it's a lack of movement, not a material. --Kydo 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::No... the two modes (should) have the same water. "Stagnant" status, in bucket water, is caused by a "grime" coating on the water itself. What generates the "grime" coating... is not clear. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:22, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::: I still can't find any evidence of this whatsoever. The latest version IS 0.31.18, right? I'm only finding stagnant water in pools. Draining the water from the pools makes it work just fine for me. The water from the river is just fine on it's own, thus far. Also, if stagnation is a contaminant, wouldn't it be listed as "laced with grime"? Also, my dwarves don't seem to be minding salty water from the well either. --Kydo 06:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

==Wells DO NOT clean water==
Look at your stocks screen under liquids. What sort of water do you have? Stagnant water, or just water? Unless you put in a grate or bars to catch the mud contaminant, you will see that you have stagnant water in your wells and all your buckets. Now go look at your injured dwarf's thoughts. Are they complaining about water quality? Yeah, the info in this article is wrong, I'm changing it.[[Special:Contributions/71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]] 19:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:You can't have stagnant water in a bucket. That's one of the best methods of eliminating the status of "stagnant". Water is considered stagnant when it's sitting on a brook or murky pool tile. That is the only deciding factor. At first, I thought people were just mixing up "mud" and "blood", but it's clearly so consistent, that there is no mistake. Also, where in the stocks page does it list water? Is it's quantity in the billion-gazillions? Now, if your well is full of ''blood'', THAT is a big difference. Blood will have an impact, as it is a genuine contaminant that will flow with water.--Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: People often go by what they "know to be true" from previous versions or things they have heard or read. I'm just reporting what I have actually seen. I had read that well clean water, so I was surprised to read the stock page and find only "stagnant water" listed in my stocks. Looking at injured dwarves, I saw they had all complained about the water quality.

Look under "liquids" in the stock page. You are playing a .31 version, right? Liquids have been in the stock pages a while. You may also see other fun liquids listed, like magma, or stuff magma has melted. The quantity of water listed is usually in the dozens. Buckets seem to hold five or ten units of water. Blood will not have an impact, blood does not make water stagnant. FB blood might make dwarves sick though. However, I have determined, mud is not the contaminant that makes water stagnant. It must be an invisible contaminant. Cleaned water will still make mud. Water that has passed through a grate and picked up mud from another source is still clean. Wells will not clean water. Buckets will not clean water. This may be new behavior, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just look.
:Whether or not water is "stagnant" is determined by a flag set on the tile from which the water was gathered; an adjacent flag determines whether or not the water is salty. If you try to (g)et water (or fill a container with water) in Adventurer mode, it'll tell you whether the water is stagnant and/or salty, and it seems that both rivers '''and''' brooks are nonstagnant (haven't checked lakes). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::What would explain my observation that I had a well, drawing from a brook, and a liquids stock screen full of stagnant water in buckets? And when I put in a grate, I had regular water? I'm trying to test this now. I have three wells built, one from a murky pool, two from a stream, one of which has a grate. I've forbidden two of them for now, to test the last one, but it is surprisingly difficult to get blood on the floor the first season. Chasing mountain goats all over the screen did not help. I have some cage traps set up outside and am waiting for a sacrificial test subject to bring underground and kill with my "military." I suppose I could embark without any booze... [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

==Through a stairway or ramp==

Is this confirmed? I've built a well over a downward ramp and it seems to be working fine. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 02:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:Just confirmed that it works through a ramp, but not through a stairwell --[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 02:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::When you say it works ''through'' a ramp, do you mean it can reach the bottom part of the ramp through the top one, or do you mean it can reach below the bottom part of the ramp? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:27, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't really understand your question, but where the ramp points upward it is sharing space with the water source. The source is only a square deep. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 03:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, the tile above a ramp counts as open space. You can build wells, grates, hatches etc on downward ramps, even if there's water below.
:::::Yes, a well will work over top of a ramp. Ramps act like an empty tile with a special function applied. So if all you have is a hole in the ground with a ramp in it, full of water, the well will still work there. But because a ramp requires ground to be built upon, you can't dig out anywhere below said ramp, so you can't exactly have much of a reservoir if you do that. Basically all it means is that having a ramp at the bottom of your well does nothing to the functionality of a well. But staircases still interrupt functionality should they be at or above the water level. --Kydo 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Can creatures come up through wells? ==

I've just created a fortress the bowels of a cavern - the only way to make a well would be to siphon some water from the bottom of it.. I don't want any Giant Olm's or anything rushing up through my well :P What I'll do for now is place some bars in the tunnel that leads under the well to the water. But for future reference, can anyone tell me if a creature has ever come up through their well?
:Yes, it can happen, but only under certain circumstances. If you put two sets of bars or two fortifications in the passage, that'll stop creatures from getting into your reservoir. Mind you, if you use a pump/stack, you won't need to worry about that. As for creatures getting out of the wells, I've never had that happen in any of my fortresses. I'm certain it's possible if your well has a staircxase or some other escape method and an amphibious creature from the deeps or some zombified fish got in, but I've never done anything that would allow such things access to my well. And the water level in my wells is rarely right to the top. (That cuts it too close, as far as flooding potential goes, in my mind) --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

:: At least as of .12 and later, bars, grates, and fortifications all turn the well to 'Dry'. Probably because they all block the bucket. Also, a pumpstack isn't feasible if your ground water is an expanse below many z-levels of open space. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 02:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I meant in the filling passage, the aqueduct, leading to the well. Not inside the well itself. Look, just go to my user page and look at the work I'm doing on the well guide. You'll see what I mean. --Kydo 07:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::: I see. Well, the simple question: can creatures come up the well? Simple answer: yes. If you can block access to the well's source, it won't be a problem, but if that's not possible, or not immediately feasible, then the well shaft is an easy access for flying creatures. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 18:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Non-freezing wells? ==
How do you make a well so that it doesn't freeze in winter?
:You put it underground. Also, '''sign your comments'''. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verified Well Fishers ==

Because a well is not an obstructing object, it's possible to designate a well as a fishing zone. The game basically reads it as a fancy hole in the ground full of water. Fisherdwarves can and will fish from a well, which could be a good thing if the well is over some underground water source. However, the water level must be right up under the well, or the available tiles for fishing will be reduced to 0. --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Muddy water from a well. ==

I had a well built about 100 levels above 1 level-deep underground pools and the water from these was always "muddy" when used to clean hospital patients (It was muddy already in the bucket on its <s>long</s> you-may-die-of-thirst-waiting-long way up). Water from a 2 levels-deep water source was never "muddy". It may be related to "muddy floor" of the tile the bucket reaches to fill with water. It may have a minor effect on thirsty dwarven thoughts and infection chances. Some dedicated experiments may clarify this more.--[[User:Another|Another]] 17:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Well, a 100 level drop was really difficult to pull off before. It only makes sense there'd be some weirdness when the distance itself gets weirdly long. I'm building a fortress full of example and tutorial wells right now, to illustrate the step-by-step guides, so I guess I'll see what comes of this. Though I need more clarification. Wells only care about the tile of water DIRECTLY underneath themselves. As far as I know, a floor covered in water can't be muddy. It's either dry, covered in water, or muddy, I don't think I've ever seen those states overlap. Because there can't be any floor between the water and the well opening, I can't see how floor tiles would cause a change in the water itself. Maybe it is just the distance itself, as you said. --Kydo 07:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verifying Happy Thoughts ==
Dwarves always think happy thoughts for well-crafted goods, no matter what they are. The thought is ''"(dwarf name) recently admired a (quality eg "Fine") well lately"'' --[[KingAuggie]]

== Verifying "Never Booze" and desalination ==

Recuperating dwarves will never drink alcohol, because other dwarves will never haul the alcohol to them. Until dwarves nolonger drink directly from the barrel in it's stockpile, recuperating dwarves will simply be unable to drink booze, because they can't walk to it. They stay in bed and recuperate. Or just stay in bed. --Kydo 07:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Also verifying well desalination. Went to a saltwater ocean (It warns you on embark) with an aquifer. Tried to make an area, to see if the water could be used as a water source. It could not. It was definitely salt water. Built a well over that water without changing ANYTHING. Well reads as active. Locked all alcohol in a vault, (Dwarves will still drink forbidden alcohol!) dwarves drank out of the well with no unhappy thought. Also worked with the aquifer when I dug into it. Wells make water saltiness irrelevant. This is probably still as much of a glitch as before, but I'm adding it to the reasons for building a well in the well guide. --Kydo 08:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::Regarding dwarfs drinking forbidden alcohol: did you forbid the barrel or the alcohol inside? Forbidding a barrel will not stop dwarfs from drinking or eating what is inside. It's the same with other containers. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I forbade both the barrel and the alcohol inside. They'd still drink it. And then I forgot to unforbid it when I told them to haul it underground, and they wouldn't do that. It was actually rather a pain in the butt, and I could have avoided it entirely if I'd just not started with any alcohol. Not like I started the fortress to actually PLAY it... --Kydo 19:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-30T03:32:09Z

Kydo: /* Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE */

==Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE==

Two quote the contaminant page:

Water that {{l|flow|flows}} over contaminants can pick them up and redistribute them as the water moves. Water does not appear to move mud, although mud will be created any time water covers a tile. The mechanics of redistributing contaminants using water is not well understood although there have been some observations of strange behavior when mixing blood and water.

And I can speak from experience, I have NEVER seen water move mud. I'm even running tests of it in my well guide fortress, there's no signs of any mud contaminating the water. The dwarves are fine with the water coming out of a well situated directly over a pile of mud. Whoever is making these claims about filtering mud with grates and bars needs to lurk (and experiment) moar. Even if mud were a functioning contaminant like blood, water just makes more mud as soon as it touches a floor tile, which means ALL water would be eternally muddy! Even after being "filtered" through a grate! --Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Further experimentation shows that water moves mud around a room, redistributing it. Mud will be in different piles when a room dries than before. You are correct that cleaned water will pick up more mud from unsmoothed floors. But who uses unsmoothed floors in their water system, you want it blocked up with 'shrooms? The "stagnant" modifier must be an invisible contaminant. I was confused by the fact that mud will collect on grates, and a I smooth my floors. What version are you playing? Do you have a "liquids" category in the first page of your stocks screen? What is listed there? Perhaps I'm not the only one who needs to experiment more, yeah? Or maybe you just need to update your executables so you are playing the same game we are. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down, both of you. This is what my experience is:
* Water can have contaminants.
** Salt is a water contaminant.
*** Salt occurs in water from any source in an oceanic setting (an ocean is present).
*** Salty water is described as "laced with salt" when you view it in a bucket.
** Grime is a water contaminant.
*** Grime occurs in water from murky pools, brooks, and rivers (but not oceans or aquifers).
*** Grimy water is described as "stagnant" when you view it in a bucket.
* Tiles can have contaminants.
** Mud is a tile contaminant.
*** Mud occurs in tiles with water on them.
*** Muddy tiles have "a _____ of mud" present when you loo{{k|k}} at them.
** Blood is a tile contaminant.
*** Blood occurs in tiles with creatures bleeding on them.
*** Bloody tiles have "a _____ of blood" present when you look at them.
* Water can move tile contaminants.
* Water is unaffected by tile contaminants.
** You can't have "bloody" or "muddy" water in a bucket.
* Tiles are unaffected by water contaminants.
** You can't have a "grimy" or "salty" tile.
:Okay? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::No. For one thing, water from rivers and brooks is '''not''' stagnant as long as it is drawn from the actual tiles of the river/brook itself - this is verified easily enough in Adventurer mode by trying to fill your waterskin. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Really? I was just now playing an adventurer, trying to get to a river/brook... and when I finally found a way down to a brook, and tried drinking from it ({{k|e}}), it '''was''' stagnant. Lemme jump an adventurer into a river to see whether that's stagnant too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Just created a new adventurer, found a brook and stood on top of it, and both my {{K|e}}at and f{{K|i}}ll waterskin menus listed "water" rather than "stagnant water". The same was true for a river. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm pretty sure adventure mode treats water differently than dwarf mode. We've always been able to fill waterskins from murky pools without trouble, even before the contaminants got added, but dwarves have always had a distaste for water drawn through a well over a murky pool or brook tile. Again, even before contaminants were set up, back when salt water was shown by not allowing you to designate open water as a water source area. It was based on what kind of tile the well was situated over, and simply digging one tile out from the side of a pool or brook made the water perfectly fine if drawn from that location with a well. There's a good chance that this is still the case, because if you do dig a new tile for water to flow into, it isn't exactly sitting stagnant any more, is it? I've been testing it, and yeah, it still works. And really, stagnation wouldn't make sense as a contaminant anyways, it's a lack of movement, not a material. --Kydo 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

==Wells DO NOT clean water==
Look at your stocks screen under liquids. What sort of water do you have? Stagnant water, or just water? Unless you put in a grate or bars to catch the mud contaminant, you will see that you have stagnant water in your wells and all your buckets. Now go look at your injured dwarf's thoughts. Are they complaining about water quality? Yeah, the info in this article is wrong, I'm changing it.[[Special:Contributions/71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]] 19:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:You can't have stagnant water in a bucket. That's one of the best methods of eliminating the status of "stagnant". Water is considered stagnant when it's sitting on a brook or murky pool tile. That is the only deciding factor. At first, I thought people were just mixing up "mud" and "blood", but it's clearly so consistent, that there is no mistake. Also, where in the stocks page does it list water? Is it's quantity in the billion-gazillions? Now, if your well is full of ''blood'', THAT is a big difference. Blood will have an impact, as it is a genuine contaminant that will flow with water.--Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: People often go by what they "know to be true" from previous versions or things they have heard or read. I'm just reporting what I have actually seen. I had read that well clean water, so I was surprised to read the stock page and find only "stagnant water" listed in my stocks. Looking at injured dwarves, I saw they had all complained about the water quality.

Look under "liquids" in the stock page. You are playing a .31 version, right? Liquids have been in the stock pages a while. You may also see other fun liquids listed, like magma, or stuff magma has melted. The quantity of water listed is usually in the dozens. Buckets seem to hold five or ten units of water. Blood will not have an impact, blood does not make water stagnant. FB blood might make dwarves sick though. However, I have determined, mud is not the contaminant that makes water stagnant. It must be an invisible contaminant. Cleaned water will still make mud. Water that has passed through a grate and picked up mud from another source is still clean. Wells will not clean water. Buckets will not clean water. This may be new behavior, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just look.
:Whether or not water is "stagnant" is determined by a flag set on the tile from which the water was gathered; an adjacent flag determines whether or not the water is salty. If you try to (g)et water (or fill a container with water) in Adventurer mode, it'll tell you whether the water is stagnant and/or salty, and it seems that both rivers '''and''' brooks are nonstagnant (haven't checked lakes). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::What would explain my observation that I had a well, drawing from a brook, and a liquids stock screen full of stagnant water in buckets? And when I put in a grate, I had regular water? I'm trying to test this now. I have three wells built, one from a murky pool, two from a stream, one of which has a grate. I've forbidden two of them for now, to test the last one, but it is surprisingly difficult to get blood on the floor the first season. Chasing mountain goats all over the screen did not help. I have some cage traps set up outside and am waiting for a sacrificial test subject to bring underground and kill with my "military." I suppose I could embark without any booze... [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

==Through a stairway or ramp==

Is this confirmed? I've built a well over a downward ramp and it seems to be working fine. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 02:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:Just confirmed that it works through a ramp, but not through a stairwell --[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 02:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::When you say it works ''through'' a ramp, do you mean it can reach the bottom part of the ramp through the top one, or do you mean it can reach below the bottom part of the ramp? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:27, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't really understand your question, but where the ramp points upward it is sharing space with the water source. The source is only a square deep. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 03:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, the tile above a ramp counts as open space. You can build wells, grates, hatches etc on downward ramps, even if there's water below.
:::::Yes, a well will work over top of a ramp. Ramps act like an empty tile with a special function applied. So if all you have is a hole in the ground with a ramp in it, full of water, the well will still work there. But because a ramp requires ground to be built upon, you can't dig out anywhere below said ramp, so you can't exactly have much of a reservoir if you do that. Basically all it means is that having a ramp at the bottom of your well does nothing to the functionality of a well. But staircases still interrupt functionality should they be at or above the water level. --Kydo 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Can creatures come up through wells? ==

I've just created a fortress the bowels of a cavern - the only way to make a well would be to siphon some water from the bottom of it.. I don't want any Giant Olm's or anything rushing up through my well :P What I'll do for now is place some bars in the tunnel that leads under the well to the water. But for future reference, can anyone tell me if a creature has ever come up through their well?
:Yes, it can happen, but only under certain circumstances. If you put two sets of bars or two fortifications in the passage, that'll stop creatures from getting into your reservoir. Mind you, if you use a pump/stack, you won't need to worry about that. As for creatures getting out of the wells, I've never had that happen in any of my fortresses. I'm certain it's possible if your well has a staircxase or some other escape method and an amphibious creature from the deeps or some zombified fish got in, but I've never done anything that would allow such things access to my well. And the water level in my wells is rarely right to the top. (That cuts it too close, as far as flooding potential goes, in my mind) --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

:: At least as of .12 and later, bars, grates, and fortifications all turn the well to 'Dry'. Probably because they all block the bucket. Also, a pumpstack isn't feasible if your ground water is an expanse below many z-levels of open space. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 02:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I meant in the filling passage, the aqueduct, leading to the well. Not inside the well itself. Look, just go to my user page and look at the work I'm doing on the well guide. You'll see what I mean. --Kydo 07:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::: I see. Well, the simple question: can creatures come up the well? Simple answer: yes. If you can block access to the well's source, it won't be a problem, but if that's not possible, or not immediately feasible, then the well shaft is an easy access for flying creatures. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 18:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Non-freezing wells? ==
How do you make a well so that it doesn't freeze in winter?
:You put it underground. Also, '''sign your comments'''. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verified Well Fishers ==

Because a well is not an obstructing object, it's possible to designate a well as a fishing zone. The game basically reads it as a fancy hole in the ground full of water. Fisherdwarves can and will fish from a well, which could be a good thing if the well is over some underground water source. However, the water level must be right up under the well, or the available tiles for fishing will be reduced to 0. --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Muddy water from a well. ==

I had a well built about 100 levels above 1 level-deep underground pools and the water from these was always "muddy" when used to clean hospital patients (It was muddy already in the bucket on its <s>long</s> you-may-die-of-thirst-waiting-long way up). Water from a 2 levels-deep water source was never "muddy". It may be related to "muddy floor" of the tile the bucket reaches to fill with water. It may have a minor effect on thirsty dwarven thoughts and infection chances. Some dedicated experiments may clarify this more.--[[User:Another|Another]] 17:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Well, a 100 level drop was really difficult to pull off before. It only makes sense there'd be some weirdness when the distance itself gets weirdly long. I'm building a fortress full of example and tutorial wells right now, to illustrate the step-by-step guides, so I guess I'll see what comes of this. Though I need more clarification. Wells only care about the tile of water DIRECTLY underneath themselves. As far as I know, a floor covered in water can't be muddy. It's either dry, covered in water, or muddy, I don't think I've ever seen those states overlap. Because there can't be any floor between the water and the well opening, I can't see how floor tiles would cause a change in the water itself. Maybe it is just the distance itself, as you said. --Kydo 07:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verifying Happy Thoughts ==
Dwarves always think happy thoughts for well-crafted goods, no matter what they are. The thought is ''"(dwarf name) recently admired a (quality eg "Fine") well lately"'' --[[KingAuggie]]

== Verifying "Never Booze" and desalination ==

Recuperating dwarves will never drink alcohol, because other dwarves will never haul the alcohol to them. Until dwarves nolonger drink directly from the barrel in it's stockpile, recuperating dwarves will simply be unable to drink booze, because they can't walk to it. They stay in bed and recuperate. Or just stay in bed. --Kydo 07:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Also verifying well desalination. Went to a saltwater ocean (It warns you on embark) with an aquifer. Tried to make an area, to see if the water could be used as a water source. It could not. It was definitely salt water. Built a well over that water without changing ANYTHING. Well reads as active. Locked all alcohol in a vault, (Dwarves will still drink forbidden alcohol!) dwarves drank out of the well with no unhappy thought. Also worked with the aquifer when I dug into it. Wells make water saltiness irrelevant. This is probably still as much of a glitch as before, but I'm adding it to the reasons for building a well in the well guide. --Kydo 08:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::Regarding dwarfs drinking forbidden alcohol: did you forbid the barrel or the alcohol inside? Forbidding a barrel will not stop dwarfs from drinking or eating what is inside. It's the same with other containers. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I forbade both the barrel and the alcohol inside. They'd still drink it. And then I forgot to unforbid it when I told them to haul it underground, and they wouldn't do that. It was actually rather a pain in the butt, and I could have avoided it entirely if I'd just not started with any alcohol. Not like I started the fortress to actually PLAY it... --Kydo 19:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Contaminant

2010-11-30T03:25:24Z

Kydo: /* Contradictions in regards to mud */

==Contradictions in regards to mud==

On the page, it first says water does not appear to move mud. Then it says that flowing water will frequently redistribute mud. I'm playing the game right now, and I see NO signs of mud being moved in the slightest. Unless anyone can give a solid explanation, I'm editing the page to state that water does not redistribute mud. --Kydo 07:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Flood a room. Let it dry. Examine how much mud is on each tile: a dusting, a pile? Now flood it again. Re-examine the tiles. You will find things have changed. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 20:17, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I believe we have some pretty solid information on this over in Well's talk page. Would you agree to copying DeMatt's information here? Also, I've been wondering, under what conditions would my well's reservoir run out? I use a gravity-fed aqueduct with depressurization at the reservoir's entrance, ensuring it's always full without overflowing. The only reason I can see for a well to go dry, is if one neglects to refill it, or if it's built over a murky pool. --Kydo 03:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

==Initial Discussions==

This is just a quick start so the page exists. I'll be adding a lot more information as I figure out more of the details of contaminants. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Still very nice. And using this systems helps if you want to irrigiate a place. Make a pool of mud and order your dwarves to move around it. It should work, I haven't tested it.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 17:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Found this:
 [[File:Pus_by_well.png]]
 --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 01:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Isn't sand a contaiminant? I've found a pile of it where my dwarves wash themselves, along with the multiple kinds of blood and some pus.
:Any material generated during a cave-in counts as a contaminant. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:25, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-30T03:21:56Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

v0.31 Talk:Contaminant

2010-11-30T03:18:27Z

Kydo: /* Contradictions in regards to mud */

==Contradictions in regards to mud==

On the page, it first says water does not appear to move mud. Then it says that flowing water will frequently redistribute mud. I'm playing the game right now, and I see NO signs of mud being moved in the slightest. Unless anyone can give a solid explanation, I'm editing the page to state that water does not redistribute mud. --Kydo 07:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Flood a room. Let it dry. Examine how much mud is on each tile: a dusting, a pile? Now flood it again. Re-examine the tiles. You will find things have changed. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 20:17, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I believe we have some pretty solid information on this over in Well's talk page. Would you agree to copying DeMatt's information here?

==Initial Discussions==

This is just a quick start so the page exists. I'll be adding a lot more information as I figure out more of the details of contaminants. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 08:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Still very nice. And using this systems helps if you want to irrigiate a place. Make a pool of mud and order your dwarves to move around it. It should work, I haven't tested it.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 17:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Found this:
 [[File:Pus_by_well.png]]
 --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 01:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Isn't sand a contaiminant? I've found a pile of it where my dwarves wash themselves, along with the multiple kinds of blood and some pus.
:Any material generated during a cave-in counts as a contaminant. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:25, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-30T03:18:17Z

Kydo: /* Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE */

==Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE==

Two quote the contaminant page:

Water that {{l|flow|flows}} over contaminants can pick them up and redistribute them as the water moves. Water does not appear to move mud, although mud will be created any time water covers a tile. The mechanics of redistributing contaminants using water is not well understood although there have been some observations of strange behavior when mixing blood and water.

And I can speak from experience, I have NEVER seen water move mud. I'm even running tests of it in my well guide fortress, there's no signs of any mud contaminating the water. The dwarves are fine with the water coming out of a well situated directly over a pile of mud. Whoever is making these claims about filtering mud with grates and bars needs to lurk (and experiment) moar. Even if mud were a functioning contaminant like blood, water just makes more mud as soon as it touches a floor tile, which means ALL water would be eternally muddy! Even after being "filtered" through a grate! --Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Further experimentation shows that water moves mud around a room, redistributing it. Mud will be in different piles when a room dries than before. You are correct that cleaned water will pick up more mud from unsmoothed floors. But who uses unsmoothed floors in their water system, you want it blocked up with 'shrooms? The "stagnant" modifier must be an invisible contaminant. I was confused by the fact that mud will collect on grates, and a I smooth my floors. What version are you playing? Do you have a "liquids" category in the first page of your stocks screen? What is listed there? Perhaps I'm not the only one who needs to experiment more, yeah? Or maybe you just need to update your executables so you are playing the same game we are. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:08, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:Calm down, both of you. This is what my experience is:
* Water can have contaminants.
** Salt is a water contaminant.
*** Salt occurs in water from any source in an oceanic setting (an ocean is present).
*** Salty water is described as "laced with salt" when you view it in a bucket.
** Grime is a water contaminant.
*** Grime occurs in water from murky pools, brooks, and rivers (but not oceans or aquifers).
*** Grimy water is described as "stagnant" when you view it in a bucket.
* Tiles can have contaminants.
** Mud is a tile contaminant.
*** Mud occurs in tiles with water on them.
*** Muddy tiles have "a _____ of mud" present when you loo{{k|k}} at them.
** Blood is a tile contaminant.
*** Blood occurs in tiles with creatures bleeding on them.
*** Bloody tiles have "a _____ of blood" present when you look at them.
* Water can move tile contaminants.
* Water is unaffected by tile contaminants.
** You can't have "bloody" or "muddy" water in a bucket.
* Tiles are unaffected by water contaminants.
** You can't have a "grimy" or "salty" tile.
:Okay? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::No. For one thing, water from rivers and brooks is '''not''' stagnant as long as it is drawn from the actual tiles of the river/brook itself - this is verified easily enough in Adventurer mode by trying to fill your waterskin. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Really? I was just now playing an adventurer, trying to get to a river/brook... and when I finally found a way down to a brook, and tried drinking from it ({{k|e}}), it '''was''' stagnant. Lemme jump an adventurer into a river to see whether that's stagnant too. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Just created a new adventurer, found a brook and stood on top of it, and both my {{K|e}}at and f{{K|i}}ll waterskin menus listed "water" rather than "stagnant water". The same was true for a river. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm pretty sure adventure mode treats water differently than dwarf mode. We've always been able to fill waterskins from murky pools without trouble, even before the contaminants got added, but dwarves have always had a distaste for water drawn through a well over a murky pool or brook tile. Again, even before contaminants were set up, back when salt water was shown by not allowing you to designate open water as a water source area. It was based on what kind of tile the well was situated over, and simply digging one tile out from the side of a pool or brook made the water perfectly fine if drawn from that location with a well. There's a good chance that this is still the case, because if you do dig a new tile for water to flow into, it isn't exactly sitting stagnant any more, is it? I've been testing it, and yeah, it still works. --Kydo 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

==Wells DO NOT clean water==
Look at your stocks screen under liquids. What sort of water do you have? Stagnant water, or just water? Unless you put in a grate or bars to catch the mud contaminant, you will see that you have stagnant water in your wells and all your buckets. Now go look at your injured dwarf's thoughts. Are they complaining about water quality? Yeah, the info in this article is wrong, I'm changing it.[[Special:Contributions/71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]] 19:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:You can't have stagnant water in a bucket. That's one of the best methods of eliminating the status of "stagnant". Water is considered stagnant when it's sitting on a brook or murky pool tile. That is the only deciding factor. At first, I thought people were just mixing up "mud" and "blood", but it's clearly so consistent, that there is no mistake. Also, where in the stocks page does it list water? Is it's quantity in the billion-gazillions? Now, if your well is full of ''blood'', THAT is a big difference. Blood will have an impact, as it is a genuine contaminant that will flow with water.--Kydo 06:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:: People often go by what they "know to be true" from previous versions or things they have heard or read. I'm just reporting what I have actually seen. I had read that well clean water, so I was surprised to read the stock page and find only "stagnant water" listed in my stocks. Looking at injured dwarves, I saw they had all complained about the water quality.

Look under "liquids" in the stock page. You are playing a .31 version, right? Liquids have been in the stock pages a while. You may also see other fun liquids listed, like magma, or stuff magma has melted. The quantity of water listed is usually in the dozens. Buckets seem to hold five or ten units of water. Blood will not have an impact, blood does not make water stagnant. FB blood might make dwarves sick though. However, I have determined, mud is not the contaminant that makes water stagnant. It must be an invisible contaminant. Cleaned water will still make mud. Water that has passed through a grate and picked up mud from another source is still clean. Wells will not clean water. Buckets will not clean water. This may be new behavior, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just look.
:Whether or not water is "stagnant" is determined by a flag set on the tile from which the water was gathered; an adjacent flag determines whether or not the water is salty. If you try to (g)et water (or fill a container with water) in Adventurer mode, it'll tell you whether the water is stagnant and/or salty, and it seems that both rivers '''and''' brooks are nonstagnant (haven't checked lakes). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::What would explain my observation that I had a well, drawing from a brook, and a liquids stock screen full of stagnant water in buckets? And when I put in a grate, I had regular water? I'm trying to test this now. I have three wells built, one from a murky pool, two from a stream, one of which has a grate. I've forbidden two of them for now, to test the last one, but it is surprisingly difficult to get blood on the floor the first season. Chasing mountain goats all over the screen did not help. I have some cage traps set up outside and am waiting for a sacrificial test subject to bring underground and kill with my "military." I suppose I could embark without any booze... [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

==Through a stairway or ramp==

Is this confirmed? I've built a well over a downward ramp and it seems to be working fine. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 02:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:Just confirmed that it works through a ramp, but not through a stairwell --[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 02:49, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::When you say it works ''through'' a ramp, do you mean it can reach the bottom part of the ramp through the top one, or do you mean it can reach below the bottom part of the ramp? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:27, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't really understand your question, but where the ramp points upward it is sharing space with the water source. The source is only a square deep. [[User:Haruspex Pariah|Haruspex Pariah]] 03:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, the tile above a ramp counts as open space. You can build wells, grates, hatches etc on downward ramps, even if there's water below.
:::::Yes, a well will work over top of a ramp. Ramps act like an empty tile with a special function applied. So if all you have is a hole in the ground with a ramp in it, full of water, the well will still work there. But because a ramp requires ground to be built upon, you can't dig out anywhere below said ramp, so you can't exactly have much of a reservoir if you do that. Basically all it means is that having a ramp at the bottom of your well does nothing to the functionality of a well. But staircases still interrupt functionality should they be at or above the water level. --Kydo 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Can creatures come up through wells? ==

I've just created a fortress the bowels of a cavern - the only way to make a well would be to siphon some water from the bottom of it.. I don't want any Giant Olm's or anything rushing up through my well :P What I'll do for now is place some bars in the tunnel that leads under the well to the water. But for future reference, can anyone tell me if a creature has ever come up through their well?
:Yes, it can happen, but only under certain circumstances. If you put two sets of bars or two fortifications in the passage, that'll stop creatures from getting into your reservoir. Mind you, if you use a pump/stack, you won't need to worry about that. As for creatures getting out of the wells, I've never had that happen in any of my fortresses. I'm certain it's possible if your well has a staircxase or some other escape method and an amphibious creature from the deeps or some zombified fish got in, but I've never done anything that would allow such things access to my well. And the water level in my wells is rarely right to the top. (That cuts it too close, as far as flooding potential goes, in my mind) --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

:: At least as of .12 and later, bars, grates, and fortifications all turn the well to 'Dry'. Probably because they all block the bucket. Also, a pumpstack isn't feasible if your ground water is an expanse below many z-levels of open space. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 02:40, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::I meant in the filling passage, the aqueduct, leading to the well. Not inside the well itself. Look, just go to my user page and look at the work I'm doing on the well guide. You'll see what I mean. --Kydo 07:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

:::: I see. Well, the simple question: can creatures come up the well? Simple answer: yes. If you can block access to the well's source, it won't be a problem, but if that's not possible, or not immediately feasible, then the well shaft is an easy access for flying creatures. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 18:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Non-freezing wells? ==
How do you make a well so that it doesn't freeze in winter?
:You put it underground. Also, '''sign your comments'''. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verified Well Fishers ==

Because a well is not an obstructing object, it's possible to designate a well as a fishing zone. The game basically reads it as a fancy hole in the ground full of water. Fisherdwarves can and will fish from a well, which could be a good thing if the well is over some underground water source. However, the water level must be right up under the well, or the available tiles for fishing will be reduced to 0. --Kydo 15:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Muddy water from a well. ==

I had a well built about 100 levels above 1 level-deep underground pools and the water from these was always "muddy" when used to clean hospital patients (It was muddy already in the bucket on its <s>long</s> you-may-die-of-thirst-waiting-long way up). Water from a 2 levels-deep water source was never "muddy". It may be related to "muddy floor" of the tile the bucket reaches to fill with water. It may have a minor effect on thirsty dwarven thoughts and infection chances. Some dedicated experiments may clarify this more.--[[User:Another|Another]] 17:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Well, a 100 level drop was really difficult to pull off before. It only makes sense there'd be some weirdness when the distance itself gets weirdly long. I'm building a fortress full of example and tutorial wells right now, to illustrate the step-by-step guides, so I guess I'll see what comes of this. Though I need more clarification. Wells only care about the tile of water DIRECTLY underneath themselves. As far as I know, a floor covered in water can't be muddy. It's either dry, covered in water, or muddy, I don't think I've ever seen those states overlap. Because there can't be any floor between the water and the well opening, I can't see how floor tiles would cause a change in the water itself. Maybe it is just the distance itself, as you said. --Kydo 07:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Verifying Happy Thoughts ==
Dwarves always think happy thoughts for well-crafted goods, no matter what they are. The thought is ''"(dwarf name) recently admired a (quality eg "Fine") well lately"'' --[[KingAuggie]]

== Verifying "Never Booze" and desalination ==

Recuperating dwarves will never drink alcohol, because other dwarves will never haul the alcohol to them. Until dwarves nolonger drink directly from the barrel in it's stockpile, recuperating dwarves will simply be unable to drink booze, because they can't walk to it. They stay in bed and recuperate. Or just stay in bed. --Kydo 07:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Also verifying well desalination. Went to a saltwater ocean (It warns you on embark) with an aquifer. Tried to make an area, to see if the water could be used as a water source. It could not. It was definitely salt water. Built a well over that water without changing ANYTHING. Well reads as active. Locked all alcohol in a vault, (Dwarves will still drink forbidden alcohol!) dwarves drank out of the well with no unhappy thought. Also worked with the aquifer when I dug into it. Wells make water saltiness irrelevant. This is probably still as much of a glitch as before, but I'm adding it to the reasons for building a well in the well guide. --Kydo 08:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::Regarding dwarfs drinking forbidden alcohol: did you forbid the barrel or the alcohol inside? Forbidding a barrel will not stop dwarfs from drinking or eating what is inside. It's the same with other containers. --[[User:Hermano|Hermano]] 15:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I forbade both the barrel and the alcohol inside. They'd still drink it. And then I forgot to unforbid it when I told them to haul it underground, and they wouldn't do that. It was actually rather a pain in the butt, and I could have avoided it entirely if I'd just not started with any alcohol. Not like I started the fortress to actually PLAY it... --Kydo 19:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Kydo

2010-11-30T02:58:51Z

Kydo:

Please try to refrain from telling people to "lurk moar" when you disagree with them. It is the same as saying "Shut up." This is a wiki. And this game is not an open book. Given that your name is not "ToadyOne" you are not an expert on the inner workings of this game. You are experimenting and making hypothesis like everyone else. For instance, you seemed surprised to learn there is a "liquids" category in the stock screens, and assumed it would show "billion-gazillions" of units of water. If you had bothered to look, you would know exactly what it shows. I would think someone writing a well guide should know about the "liquids" stock category. Perhaps you need to lurk and experiment moar, missing a simple and important thing like that. (See? Doesn't feel so nice, does it?) [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 20:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
: Indeed I do, and I did check after writing that. I also learned a number of other things from that. All of which told me he was still wrong. Also, when I originally wrote it, I DID say "shut up". I changed it because I thought that might be a bit too much. I didn't want him to stop posting completely, I just wanted him to stop spreading that particular (and easily disputed) rumor acrosss all of the water-related pages. I do agree with you though, it was mean of me, and deserves an apology. --Kydo 02:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

User talk:DeMatt

2010-11-29T07:44:01Z

Kydo:

So you have not noticed the message in bold at top of the page?

'''Do not copy/paste old information into new articles without verifying it first.''' --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:21, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

*Second! I was getting annoyed from seeing "Copied the old template ASSUMING nothing changed..". Stop assuming! - [[User:Eroing|Eroing]]
If you can identify anything in those infoboxes which I copied over WHICH IS INCORRECT, then CHANGE IT. I DID check over as much of the information as I could, I DID find some things which needed correction, e.g. the keyboard shortcut for [[DF2010:Magma kiln]], so I DID "verify" as much of that info as I could. [[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 17:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== New Player Questions ==

Thanks for your help [[User:Maunder/DeMatts_edits|answering]] some of my new player questions! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to the wiki and acknowledge you and incorporate the answers into my [[User:Maunder|User page]]. -- [[User:Maunder|Maunder]] 03:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== Thirst page ==

Hi, regarding the [[Thirst]] page, your edit removing my humor also thoroughly changed the point of the paragraph. Haulers eventually put booze down, while mildorfs do not. I have restored the original meaning, and made the humor politics-neutral. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:32, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Though we've disagreed before, your dedication to upholding the truth is admirable. Thanks for catching that mud-contaminant thing that got thrown into the Well Guide. I've noticed the topic pop up a few other places as well, and now I'm concerned. I don't remember reading anything about contaminants being updated as they have, and up until now I haven't noticed. The topic on contaminants is currantly garbage, and there seem to be a few rumors on the subject floating around. I was wondering if you know anything more than what the wiki already has, which I could use as a basis for my experiments to determine what is a contaminant, what is not, and how to deal with them, as that will probably be important for a guide on how to build and manage effective wells. --Kydo 07:44, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-29T07:36:23Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when water enters that tile. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh, crap, looking back, I need to do a minor update to this. Mud still isn't a contaminant, but contaminants have become much more complicated. I don't remember reading about that being implemented, but there it is! I guess I'll have to build even more experiments... Damn. The nature of contaminants is weird. Some will mix with water, while others just appear as small piles and don't actually seem to interact with water at all! --Kydo 07:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Important advice

2010-11-29T07:21:12Z

Kydo: /* Tricks */

{{quality|Exceptional|03:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}

Here are a few things to keep in mind when playing Dwarf Fortress.

Above all, one must remember that '''losing is {{L|fun}}!''' Be prepared to lose a few fortresses before you get the hang of things – it can be easy to accidentally kill the entire fortress while playing around with the different mechanics.
But remember: losing means that next time, you'll remember how you lost! In a big way, Dwarf Fortress uses the principle of learning from one's mistakes.

See also: {{L|What should I build first}}?

If you cannot find your answer on this wiki, check out the forums at [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php Bay12games.com]

== DF 2010 Advice ==
* [[Soap]] is very important now. If a dwarf is injured, soap will be necessary to clean the wound, otherwise infection will set in.

* Do not take on an armoured opponent with your fists; you will lose. Wrestling is no longer very effective and the use of quality weapons is strongly encouraged. It is still faster than using [[training weapon]]s of any type, though.

* To easily create an underground farm, c{{key|h}}annel above where you want the farm to be and remove all the down ramps. Des{{key|i}}gnate the area above the farm as a pond and dwarves will begin to fill it (Don't forget to designate a water source and make sure you have buckets). Don't channel from the surface; that will just make it an aboveground farm. Put your farm at least two levels underground and then channel a layer above that. Aboveground farms can be made without muddying the ground, despite the warning.

* Soil now has to be irrigated in order for underground crops to grow on it. Make sure your map has some immediate access to water at the start or you're going to be relegated to surviving off prickle berries and wild strawberries for however long it takes you to breach into the first [[cavern]] layer.

* Don't dig too greedily or too deep without a proper army - expecting a couple rookies to fend off a {{l|Giant cave spider}} (or {{l|Hidden_Fun_Stuff|worse}}) results in much {{l|fun}}. Make sure to properly train and equip your soldiers before breaching the depths. Equipment is much more important than before.

* The new resource allocation defaults (defined in init) means that dwarves stack resources far more efficiently into barrels than they used to. The net result is that the average number of barrels/bins you need has roughly halved compared to 40d. This means that you can put more of that precious wood towards beds in the early game as opposed to logging half the map to supply containers for your precious [[booze]].

== Advice ==

* Keep in mind that Dwarf Fortress doesn't have a "win" condition. It just has a long series of "lose" conditions.
** (Well, really just one lose condition {all your Dwarfs die}, but many ways to accomplish it.)
** What about {Abandon Fortress}?
** Arguably all funny unintended end of a forteress are 'win' because we're whores for despair and dystopia, and stop playing is 'losing'. Some other players argue it's exactly the opposite. This usually distinguishes between hardcore players, and hardcore-er players (no casual players stick with it long enough to argue either view).

* Learn the {{L|controls_guide|controls}}. There are lots, and learning them may seem daunting at first, but once you get the basics down (like how to check the status of your dwarves or the hotkeys for building certain structures), you'll find yourself playing much more efficiently. {{L|Efficient_gameplay|Efficient Gameplay}} offers some time-saving tips.

* If your game is running slowly, learn how to {{L|Maximizing framerate|maximize your framerate}}.

* Save often! Although it can be a hassle to have to quit out and get back in, it's a lot better than having to build that long hallway of stone-fall traps, plant the whole bag of plump helmet seeds, and make that shipment of steel battleaxes for the caravan next year, ''all over again''.
** In this vein, there is a seasonal auto-save feature which you can turn on by editing your /data/init/d_init.txt file.

* Plan ahead a little during construction. When building your first couple dozen rooms, consider that in the future you might want to make certain busy hallways wider so dwarves aren't always climbing over each other. This will be a lot easier if you put rooms back an extra tile so you don't have to rebuild everything.

* Think three-dimensionally. You have a Z-axis. Things will be much closer when they're downstairs one floor than if they're 20 tiles away down the hallway. Also note that, with the default {{L|tilesets|tileset}}, your display of the fortress is not square, so north/south distances will appear longer than east/west distances -- they aren't.

== Tips ==

* Dwarves thrive on {{L|alcohol}}. If a dwarf drinks only water, the rate at which he gets tasks done decreases. If the fortress has no alcohol for years, things will slow down quite a bit.
* Dwarves also need {{L|food}}, obviously - and a good {{L|cook}} (and a nice dining hall) go a long way towards keeping your fortress happy.
** Don't cook all your alcohol or all your {{L|seed}}s (or all the things that leave seeds). ({{k|z}} >> Kitchen).
* Dwarves tend to get trapped easily. They like {{L|Digging#Dig_Priority|building and digging things from certain directions}}, so try to make sure there is a way out (and keep an eye on them just in case they try something crazy). Also keep in mind that workshops block certain squares, so if ever notice that your jeweler dies after constructing a workshop with a door on the east side, that's why.
* Construction and combat are {{L|noise|noisy}}. Keep your sleeping areas away from noise and your dwarves will get a good night's rest.
* Workshops will become {{L|clutter|cluttered}} once they have 15 average goods in them (more for {{L|craft}}s, less for {{L|siege weapon}}s). Make stockpiles to receive the goods, and have ample {{L|hauler}}s, and/or more than one of a workshop that's likely to get cluttered.
* {{L|Traps}} can help take care of invaders at no risk to your dwarves. Any fortress can build a  bunch of stone-fall traps. Cage traps are also easy (you can make cages out of wood).
* Having a dwarf with the Appraiser skill to be your {{L|broker}} will help a lot when {{L|trading}}. Otherwise, you can't see how much an item is worth.
* {{L|Chain}}ing some {{L|dog}}s by your front door may deter thieves.
* Remember that dwarves can be assigned new {{L|labor|jobs}} at any time. If your carpenter has died, your farmer can start making beds. (He probably won't be very good at it, since he doesn't have the skill, but it's better than sleeping on the ground.)
* Idle carpenters? It's hard to have too many {{L|barrel}}s (or too many {{L|bin}}s... {{L|bed}}s for the next wave of {{L|immigrant}}s are pretty handy too). Idle masons? You can fit a lot of {{L|door}}s into your fortress, and buildings constructed from {{L|block}}s add value over rough stone.
* Too many {{L|immigrant}}s? Don't know what to do with them? Have you started an {{L|military|army}} yet?
* When setting a {{L|water}} source (for designated drinking zones) or a {{L|fishing}} zone, remember that only walkable tiles are valid - you need only mark the shore.

== Tricks ==

* To find a dead dwarf, go under status ({{k|z}}), then select stock>>corpses. Hit tab, and use {{k|z}} to zoom to the particular dwarf to find a hint on where and how he died.

* Don't like all the stone laying around? Instead of using a stone {{L|stockpile}} create a 1-square garbage {{L|zone}} and {{L|dump}} the stone. Reclaim the stone after it's been dumped. This way, you can store an unlimited amount of stone in just 1 tile! (This is especially useful when the tile in question is next to your mason shop).
** {{L|miasma|Miasma}} from the garbage zone won't spread diagonally. Making your garbage dump a 1-tile room dug diagonally into a corner means you won't even need a door.

* Usually the closest available material is used for tasks such as (for example) building a floodgate, but not always. To prevent frustration, you can make a custom stockpile (e.g. for {{L|bauxite}}) next to your workshop and close the dwarf in. Don't forget there's a z-axis, so make sure there aren't unwanted materials above/below your workshop.
** Lock your {{L|gem setter}} in a room with some cut {{L|gem}}s and a {{L|stockpile}} set to gather quality {{L|furniture}}, so that he doesn't waste time (and valuables) encrusting stupid things like barrels.

* The Standing Orders ({{k|o}}) screen can be used for a variety of useful settings, like having your dwarves temporarily ignore wood, or all hide inside for a siege, or making your weavers stop heading outside all the time to collect spiderwebs and get slaughtered by wild animals.

* Hitting {{k|x}} when building a building expands the list of items, so you can pick one with a specific {{L|quality}} (a nice bed for a noble's bedroom, or a cheap door for the garbage room).

* If you're scanning the outdoors for your next swath of {{L|tree}}s, move your view up one level. They will appear as little rectangles on a field of dots and will be easier to spot.
** Speaking of timber, try designating some high-traffic lanes ({{k|d}} {{k|o}} {{k|h}}) outside radiating away from your front door to the trees. Your dwarves will stick to the paths somewhat, and probably trample fewer saplings. (They also won't mess up the ground and leave a bunch of ugly {{L|sand}} spots scattered around on a sandy map.)

* Build a walled {{L|statue}} garden outside your fortress so that your dwarves don't get {{L|cave adaptation}}.
** Also Equally Effective. In any central stairways dig up to the surface. Any dwarfs moving through that central stairway will receive there daily dose of sunlight. You could do the same for a meeting hall or statue garden, but just do it underground.
***Although, keep in mind that you still probably want to minimize access points to your fortress. Really, any opening could be used by animals or enemies to get into your fortress. You should be able to close it in again afterwards, and the light will remain anyways, as once a tile becomes light, it doesn't stop being so. (Well, not yet anyways)
* {{L|Trade}} for basic items like {{L|meat}} and {{L|wood}}. They're cheap, and it's easier than gathering them yourself.

[[Category:Guides]]

v0.31 Talk:Contaminant

2010-11-29T07:07:24Z

Kydo:

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-29T07:03:47Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when water enters that tile. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh, crap, looking back, I need to do a minor update to this. Mud still isn't a contaminant, but contaminants have become much more complicated. I don't remember reading about that being implemented, but there it is! I guess I'll have to build even more experiments... --Kydo 07:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-29T06:57:42Z

Kydo: /* Mud Contaminant Rumors are FALSE */

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-29T06:55:15Z

Kydo: /* Wells DO NOT clean water */

v0.31 Talk:Well

2010-11-29T06:54:36Z

Kydo:

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-29T06:49:50Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when water enters that tile. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-29T06:49:13Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when ALL of the water has left that tile, but it doesn't exist until after the water has left. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-29T06:31:26Z

Kydo: /* Mud contaminant */

==Mud contaminant==
Complete misinformation on this page. Wells DO NOT filter out mud or any other actual contaminant. If they did, water from wells could not be used to irrigate. It would not create mud on stone floor tiles. Mud is what makes water stagnant, NOT coming from a murky pool. You NEED to filter out mud to stop the bad thought that comes from drinking stagnant water. Grates and bars filter out contaminants. I have verified this. You can too, well users, look at your stock screens. Tab to change modes. Look at all the water you own, even the stuff in buckets is stagnant if you are playing the latest version and you aren't cleaning with grates or bars. Unless you cleaned it first. There is one scenario I have not yet investigated, though: what happens if your well is above a grate, above water? This is not a bad idea in general, the grate will prevent anyone falling into the well from falling into the water. I haven't verified if passing through a grate this way even works, let alone filters contaminants.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:71.222.187.247|71.222.187.247]]
:Wrong. Wells do filter out mud. Since mud is created simply by having water on a tile, you can't have a well reaching water that isn't mud-contaminated. Try it - build a cistern, pump some water in (so it's completely uncontaminated), look at the floor of the cistern. "Stagnant" does come from murky pools specifically - the pool will give the water a '''grime''' coating, which in turn makes the water stagnant. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::Both wrong as hell. Wells don't give a crap about mud. Mud is an object spawned on a floor tile when ALL of the water has left that tile, but it doesn't exist until after the water has left. It's just an object, not a trait associated to the tile itself. Murky pools and brooks are special, unique floor tiles which control the maner in which water evaporates from above them. Mud doesn't form on these tiles. When a well is over a murky pool or brook tile, it will assume that the water is stagnant and filthy, and THAT is where the negative thought comes from. Furthermore, water doesn't carry mud with it, it just stays there on the tile it initially formed on. Thus, you can't really filter the mud, as the water doesn't get muddy. The only "filtration" you can do is with salt water, and the game doesn't currently display this trait beyond not allowing you to use salt water as a water source. The well guide already explains how to desalinate water, both the easy and the hard way, though I've yet to do the step-by-step on the hard way... (Or any of the step-by-steps, really...) Anyways, thanks DeMatt for fixing that.--Kydo 06:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-10T16:19:32Z

Kydo: /* Mud doesn't dry? */

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

:Really? Because I have never seen anything about mud evaporating. Nobody has ever been able to confirm it. The only confirmed method of removing mud, is to build something on it, like a floor, and then remove the construction. My current fortress has been running for about four (game) years, and the mud I made for irrigation at the beginning has yet to dry. --Kydo 16:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-11-10T16:16:44Z

Kydo: /* Danger of flooding? */

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, this really should be updated. The 40d version of this page was kind of disorganized and vague at times anyways. I can clean it up a little to make sense for the new version of the game and post it here if nobody has any complaints about me doing so. --Kydo 15:20, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. That would be great.[[User:Decius|Decius]] 20:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
: Right, so, I've got what I've finished uploaded to my user page, if you want to look it over and tear it apart. It's not finished, as the step-by-step section is empty thus far. I will put more into it, but I want to use actual in-game screenshots as examples, to show that it all works. So that part may take a while. If you guys can help me on that, it'd be awesome. Oh, also, it is RIFE with unverified stuff. Like, I don't know if he fixed the "urist mcdorf fell down the well again" problem. I need to do a bunch of verification work. Which is part of what the working examples thing is about. --Kydo 03:50, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Nobody's commenting. I'll just upload it in it's unfinished state and work on it as I find the inclination to. At the very least, it might set off an argument, which is better than nothing at all. Hopefully, having something actually on the page might prompt people other than myself to start making edits of their own, fixing my heapinng pile of mistakes. --Kydo 08:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
It might be useful to mention u-bends (see [[DF2010:Pressure]]). In older versions it was possible to lower the z-level of water with a series of u-bends, I suppose this still holds true in the current version. --[[Special:Contributions/92.224.74.71|92.224.74.71]] 15:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
: Yes, it is. That's actually exactly how gravity-fed aqueducts carry water to their subterranean reservoirs. But the original well guide didn't really talk much about the behavior of water, preferring to linking to the page on pressure. It assumes you have read both the well page and the pressure page, and gives a fair bit of warning of the danger of flooding. Actually, I found a glitch in u-pipe filling. I haven't figured out exactly what causes it, but it seems that if you try to u-pipe fill a chamber that's already full of water, both water sources try to push down, and regardless of how much water is in either water source, push down with equal force, and go nowhere. I think it has something to do with the door separating the two opening, leaving an empty space, which both sources flow into, initiating the direction of flow, and once it's full, the game thinks it's done and just stops flowing. I think. I need to experiment with it more, because it only happens sometimes. Also, thanks for fixing my stuff a bit. I forgot that not all aquefers are salty. Actually, each water source should have a link to it's own page, so that you can learn more about them individually... Actually, reading over the page on pressure, it looks like it could use a little cleanup too... I'll get to it eventually. --Kydo 16:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mud doesn't dry? ==
"''First, you need to "irrigate" underground floors before you can actually farm on them. Instead of making a separate, elaborate irrigation system for just one use, (To my knowledge, mud doesn't dry) why not just drain it out of your well?''"- from Multitasking wells.

Actually when I started my last game there was already mud for farming underground, but I had forgotten seeds.(:/) And when I later checked there was not mud... -A4

==Danger of flooding?==
Really? All this hoopla over flooding, and no mention of diagonal pressure reduction?

###X ###
##0#
###

X=floodgate
#=tunnel
0=where you put the well one level above.

It couldn't get any simpler. I have never once filled up a reservoir by bucket. Once you understand that a diagonal connection removes ALL pressure, flooding should never be a problem. You get the benefit of pressure, quick delivery of the water, without the risk of flooding. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 17:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

: You're right, diagona pressure gates can be handy. I can think of a more effctive design, though... A diagonal pressure gate only works riht under specific circumstances. If water has the ability to flow downward at any point after a diagonal pressure gate, it will be pressurized back to the gate's height. It also doesn't prevent water from flooding into the rest of the level it's on, which depending on where your well is located, can be a problem. If you depressurize water before it enters the well's reservoir, it will only fill the bottom level, which makes multi-level wells impossible. Ah, but if the fill pipe connects to the TOP edge of your reservoir, and fills diagonally, the game will depressurize the water as it enters the reservoir! Which means water will only ever be able to fill to the top edge! --Kydo 16:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

User:Kydo

2010-10-25T07:08:41Z

Kydo: /* Year One */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Epigraph: ===

Will be done in the end, IF it's worthwhile.

=== Preface: ===

I have an idea for a DF-inspired work of fiction. DF is un on it's own, but it's when we get to telling stories about what we've seen and done that things really get entertaining. Most of us got pulled in by the stories of Boatmurdered, and that was done in an OLD version of the game!But I believe we can do better. Pretty much all of the DF witing I've read is either D for Dwarf content on the wiki, or written from the perspective of the player, frequently as the "leader" of the fortress. I want to do something different. I want to explore, from a first-person perspective, the lives of the dwarves, in close detail. What's it like for seven-year-old Medtobonul, wandering stone halls and observing statues of his grandparents being eviscerated by demons? I don't want there to be a single narrative, that would just be too isolated, it wouldn't really give the full scope impression of all the life in a given fortress. Rather, there shall be many narratives. Bits and scraps, lik bitof old jounals, engravings on walls... Sort of like ghosts or memories of somthing huge, something grand. Something deeper than just a simple (and violent) game. I want to tell storis about the down time, the (currently) non-existent barroom conversations, the travelling, the politics... Not just the horrible accidents.

=== Introduction: ===

This section contains raw data, copied directly from the game. It is the raw information, kept as notes, to be used for the creation of the story. In time, I'll get a drawing for every character in the fortress.

'''World Size:''' Large 
'''History:''' Very Long 
'''Number of Civilizations:''' Very High 
'''Maximum Number of Sites:''' Very High 
'''Number of Beasts:''' Very High 
'''Natural Savagery:''' Very High 
'''Time Taken:''' 11:11 AM to 11:34 (23 minutes) 
'''Rejected:''' 30

'''The Product:'''

'''World:''' Sil Gomath, "The Plane of Legends" 
'''Year:''' 1,050 
'''Hist Figs:''' 206,114 
'''Dead:''' 196,504 
'''Events:''' 1,411,175

[[Image:World_map-region2-1050--10081.gif|Thumb|200px]]

'''Local Civs:''' 
Dwarves 
Goblins (War) 
Humans

'''Dwarven Civilizations:''' 
The Earthen Floor 
The Famous Standard 
The Rumored Knife 
The Tomes of Air 
The Moral Stockade 
The Elder Fortress '''(Parent)''' 
The Considerate Trumpets 
The Future Hames 
The Radiant Vessel 
The Wall of Defending 
The Wires of Covering 
The Scorching Fence 
The Books of Morning 
The Tools of Searching

'''Region:''' The Willful Hills 
'''Embark Site:''' 5x5

'''Temparate Shrubland''' 
'''Temparature:''' Warm 
'''Trees:''' Woodland 
'''Other Vegetation:''' Moderate 
'''Surroundings:''' Untamed Wilds

'''Stream:''' Balanceslings the Doomed Side 

'''Strata:''' 
Silt 
Silt Loam 
Sandy Clay 
Clay 
Rock Salt 
Schist 
Gabbro 
Quartzite

'''Group:''' The Arch of Whispering

'''Fortress:''' Rodimled, "Wadedracks"

'''Starting Stocks:''' 
2 dogs 
1 war dog 
1 hunting dog 
2 copper picks 
1 copper batle axe 
1 iron anvil 
20 dwarven beer 
20 dwarven wine 
20 dwarven ale 
5 plump helmet spawn 
5 pig tal seeds 
5 cave wheat seeds 
5 sweet pod seeds 
4 rock nuts 
5 dimple cup spawn 
15 pond grabber meat 
15 cave fish 
15 plump helmets 
5 pig tail fiber thread 
5 pig tail fiber cloth 
5 pig tail fiber bags 
3 pig tal fiber ropes 
3 fox leather quivers 
3 oaken buckets 
3 oaken splints 
3 oaken crutches 

'''Name:''' Amkinastesh, "Gladnesscudgels" 
'''Age:''' 81 
'''Gender:''' Male 
'''Religion:''' Dubious of Usen the Morality of Nourishment 
'''Appearance:''' 
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is aranged in double braids. His very long beard is neatly combed. He has very low cheekbones, and he has a deeply recessed round chin. His somewhat tall, small-lobed ears are very flattened. e is average in size. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somewhat narrow. His cinnamon skin is slightly wrinkled. His hair is ecru with a touch of gray. His eyes are ochre. 
'''Personality:''' 
He is slow to anger. He is comfortable in soial situation. He is very friendly. He isn't given to flights of fancy. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealing with others. He lacks confidence. He is very disorganized. He rarely does more work than necessary. He inhales sharply when he is angry. He often snaps his fingers when he's bored. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ He is almost never sick 
+ and very slow to tire. 
+ He has very good intuition, 
+ a natural inclination toward language, 
+ a sum of patience 
+ and a good spacial sense. 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- He is flimsy 
- He has a meager ability with social rlationships, 
- poor analytical abilities and 
- a large deficite of willpower. 
'''Preferences:''' 
Amkinastesh likes Diorite, trifle pewter, fire agate, oak wood, flounder bone, caps, scepters and horses for their strength. When possible, he prefers to consume bat, ray and longland beer. He absolutely detests lizards. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficient Miner 

-

'''Name:''' Ishkilrud, "Barbronze" 
'''Age:''' 54 
'''Gender:''' Male 
'''Religion:''' Dubious of Usen the Morality of Nourishment 
'''Appearance:''' 
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is arranged in double braids. His short hair is neatly combed. He is muscular. His somewhat tall ears have great swinging lobes. He has very high cheekbones, and he has a very round chin. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somwhat narrow. His teeth are crowded. He has a low voice. His hair is black. His skin is cinnamon. His eyes are amethyst. 
'''Personality:''' 
Hei very friendly. He is unassertive. He is rarely happy or enthusiastic. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He is organized. He strives for excellence. He acts impulsively. He begins to talk much more slowly when he's exasperated. When he's thinking, his body becomes very still. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ He is strong and 
+ slow to tire. 
+ He has great creativity 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- He is flimsy 
- he has poor focus, 
- an iffy sense for music 
- and a meager ability with social relationships 
'''Preferences:''' 
Ishkilrud likes bituminous coal, billon, red tourmaline, bolts, scepters and glasseye for their coloration. When possible, he prfers to consume lungfish, dwarven rum, whip vine flour and sliver barb seeds. He absolutely detests cave spiders. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Prficient Miner 

-

'''Name:''' Rakustlor, "Tombstools" 
'''Age:''' 79 
'''Gender:''' Male 
'''Religion:''' Casual of Kesh Windyfish the Tundra of Mornings 
'''Appearance:''' 
He is very skinny. His sideburns are clean-shaven. His very long moustache is neatly combed. Hi ver long har is neatly combed. His incredibly close-set eyes are bulging. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His slightly flattened ears are smewhat tall. He has high cheekbones. His teeth are crowded. His cinnamon skin islightly wrinkled. 
'''Personality:''' 
He hase a calm demeanor. He is quick to anger. He is comfortable in socia situations. He is often cheerful. He has a fertile imagination. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He is incredibly frank and candid in dealings with others. He doesn't like to compromise with others. He doesn't go out of his way to work more than necessary. He possesses great willpower. He oten bites his nails when he's trying to rememer smething. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ He is quite quick to heal 
+ He has an iron will, 
+ great creativity, 
+ a sum of patience 
+ and a feel for music 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- He has a meager ability with social relationships 
- Poor empathy 
- and poor analytical abilities 
'''Preferences:''' 
Rakustlor likes rutile, bismuth, yellow jasper, fungiwood, white-handed gibbon bone, backpaks, cages, scepters, donkeys for their stubbornness and demon rats for their diabolical hunger for the food of others. When possible, he prfers to consume giat cave swallow, cave fis and gutter cruor. He absolutely detests lizards. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficient Woodcutter 

-

'''Name:''' Rithum, "Bellnail" 
'''Age:''' 58 
'''Gender:''' Female 
'''Religion:''' Dubious of Tath 
'''Appearance:''' 
She is incredibly muscular. Her larg-irised wide-set amethyst eyes are bulging. Her somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. Her hair is clean-shaven. Her omewhat broad ears are flattened. Her skin is cinnamon. 
'''Personality:''' 
She often feels discouraged. She is somewhat reserved. She is candid and sicere in deaings with others. She is modest. She holds her breath whn he's nervous. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ She is mighty. 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- She is quite susceptibleto disease. 
- She has a shortage of patience. 
- and littlelinguistic ability. 
'''Preferences:''' 
Rithum likes ilmenite, iron, red beryl, spore tree wood, the colour pale pink, short swords, floodgates, amulets nd hagfish for their ability to tie themselves into knots. When possible, she prefers to consume banded knifefish, gutter cruor and dwarven wheat flour. She absolutely dtests lizards. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficient Mason 

-

'''Name:''' Melbilthikut, "Tomebooks" 
'''Age:''' 79 
'''Gender:''' Male 
'''Religion:''' Ardent of Rab 
'''Appearance:''' 
He is broad yet weak. His hair is quite sparse. His medium-length sideburns are neatly combed. His medium-length moustache is neatly combed.His long beard is neatly combed. His very long hair is natly combed. His very flattened ears have great swinging lobes. His protruding cobalt eyes are very round. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somwhat narrow. He has very high cheekbones. His eyebrows are quite long. His teeth are crowded. His hair is pale chestnut. His cinnamon skin is slightly wrinkled. 
'''Personality:''' 
He occasionally overindulges. He is confident under pressure. He is unassertive. He likes to try new things. He admires tradition. He is guarded in relationships with others. He doesn't like to compromise with others. He is occasionally given to procrastination. He takes time when making decisions. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ He has good intuition. 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- He is quick to tire 
- very weak 
- poor creativity 
- and alarge deficit of willpower. 
'''Preferences:''' 
Belbilthikut likes native platinum, billon, sard, the clour pine green, stars, shields and larg, serrated discs. When possible, he prefers to consume longland beer. He asolutely detests large roaches. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficient Planter 

-

'''Name:''' Thedakmorul, "Clanpage" 
'''Age:''' 87 
'''Gender:''' Male 
'''Religion:''' Dubious of Tath 
'''Appearance:''' 
His sideburns are clean-shaven. His very long mustache is neatly combed. His very long beard is natly combed. His very long hair is arranged in double braids. He has a recessed round chin. He is average in size. Hissomewhat short nos is incredibly upturned. He has a grating, raspy voice. His somewhat broad ears are somewhat tall. His emerald eyes have large irises. His cinnamon skin is wrinkled. 
'''Personality:''' 
He often feels discouraged. He is rarely happy or enthusiastic. He is self-disciplined. He runs his fingers through his hair when he's annoyed. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ Very rarely sick 
+ slow to tire 
+ Very good focus 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- Flimsy 
- quite clumsy 
'''Preferences:''' 
Thedakmorul likes slate, bronze, ruby, amber, the colour orange, waves, warhammers, bracelets and magma men for their flowng movement. Whn possible, he prefers to consume white-spotted puffer and fisher berry wine. He absolutely detests worms. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficient Brewer 

-

'''Name:''' Olindeleth, "Tongspolish" 
'''Age:''' 72 
'''Gender:''' Female 
'''Religion:''' Faithful of Etur 
'''Appearance:''' 
She is scrawny. Her hair is quite sparse. Her very long hair is neatly combed. She has high cheekbones, and a recessed chin. Her somewhat shot nose is incredibly upturned. Her ears are somewhat tall. Her somewhat short head is omewht narrow. Her eyebrows are quite long. She has a low voice. Her hair is chestnut. Her skin is cinnamon. 
'''Personality:''' 
Sh rarely feels discouraged. She occasionally overindulges. She is somewhat reserved. She is very energetic and active. Sh isn't given to flights of fancy. She is candid and sincere in dalings with others. She is truly fulfilled by assisting those in need. She doesn't like to compromisewith others. She has a sense of duty. She doesn't go out of her way to do more work than is necessary. 
'''Strengths:''' 
+ She has a good feel for social rltionships 
'''Weaknesses:''' 
- She is clumsy 
- flimsy 
- weak 
- very quick to tire 
- shortage of patience 
- poor analytical abilities 
- poor creativity 
'''Preferences:''' 
Olindeleth likes selenite, lead, tanzanite, amber, the colour cardinal, bolts and red-winged blackbirds for their colouration. When possible, she prefers to consume bloated tubers, prickle berry wine and mog juice. She absolutely detests fire snakes. 
'''Skills:''' 
! Proficiet Carpenter 

-

=== Chapter One: The Old Fotress ===

The King of the Elder fortress, atop his throne, far below the surface of the mounain, hidden behind a maze of twisting corridors, slumped bac in his seat. A fly, far from it's home, buzzed nearby. In his great halls, a crowd had gathered again. Merchants, soldiers, nobles, laborers, even children. And all were arguing. The king listened numbly, disinterested in this ancient debate.

The tax collector stepped foreward, pleading to his monarch. "Please, your magesty! We must do something! Our people ae on the verge of destruction! This mountain's resources are dwindling, our people are leaving for other cities. Work is going undone! We must find a new homeland! We must find somewhere to rebuild our fomer glory!"

The hammerer, then, stepped foreward, shoving the tax collector to the ground! "My liege! Do not listen to this madness! Our numbers are alreay so low! If we lose any more on such a dangerousand foolish endeavor, we'll surely be no more! We must make our stand here! I say we go for the deeps! demon remains and adamantium will revitalize us! We can rebuild our great Elder Fortress beyond it's former glor--"

The captain of the guard, then, interrupted, "Invade th demons?! Are you utterly MAD?!" He shoved the hammerer, knocing his helmet eschew. "We do not have the forces to fight off infinite waves of demons, forgotten beasts and Armok-knows-what-else! This is simply unfeaible. We shouldabandon this rotting shell of a mountain, gain new wealth elsewhere, regroup, and reclaim her for ourselves once more."

The king leaned to one side, resting his head on his fist. This argument has been going on for the last five hundred years. He's read the transcripts from hisancestors, nd nearly nothing's hanged. The posiions are all the same, only the names have ever changed. They have gone on this long without action on the subject, and he suspected they could go on much longer as well... Still... Something was off this time. things did seem more tense... Perhaps this year was the one to break the draltha's back? He raised his hand, and stood up.

"My loyal followers. I appreciate your concern. But keep in mind the history we have here. We are the oldest dwarven culture with only a single fortress to our name. It has always been our belief that our centralization, our unity, our one-ness is the source of our strength. If we were to turn our backs on our home now, what would that say of our beliefs, our faith? If we were to leave, what would becom of our dear Elder Fortress? And what would become of her people? By principle, we ''cannot'' leave! It is true, however, that we are facing many challenges. With the death of our farmers, with only unskilled laborers tilling the fields there is much less food to go around these days. With the craftsdarves leaving for settlemnts with more materials to work with, our exports have dwindled. It is indeed true that we must do something. But I believe we can sustain the loss of a mere seven. The dwarven seven is a well known settlemnt strategy. If seven dwarves, two of each trade type, can step forward, we can begin plans."

Rithim was standing at the back of the crowd. She gazed at the crest of her lord's crown ove the heads of her comrades. She looked to her young apprentice, Tobullibash. "Tob', your skill with the cissel has grown impressively over this last year." Tob' looked up at his master, her dark eyes full of force. "Master... Do you intend.. To send me on this mission the king has proclaimed?" She shook her head and patted the boy on the shoulder, "No, Tob'. I don't." A shock of realization flashed through Tob's mind, as Rithim let go of him and began to push her way through the crowd.

Amkinastesh was standing at the front of the crowd, pick clutched firmly in his hands. Since he was a child, he'd never seen the king tak heed of anyone's proclamations in this debate. He feared his king may indeed be turning upon the mountainhome, the Elder Fortress. And then his friend and co-worker was staning next to him, her fists clenched. Rithim Nudged him with her bulging shoulder, "Amkin'! Our king needs us!" Amkinastesh looked at her, surprised. "Rith? Ar you serious? For all you know, this could be complete suicide! And who are you to start commanding around?" Rithim stepped foreward.

"My king, I accept your call. I am Rithim the mason. My apprentice has reached an approvable level of skill. I swear to you, that he can easily provide in my place. I wish to take part in this mission." Amkin' whispered loudly at her, "What are you doing?! Tob's a novice at best! And what are you going to do without any workers?!" Rith quickly shot over her shoulder, "If you're so concerned, offer your skills, miner. We'll need them." Amkin inhaled deeply, trying to control himself. Rith had never been so forceful with him before! hn he looked up at his king, watching the crowd intently, looking at them with almost pity, perhaps contempt... And then he felt his feet move foreward, ad her heard his voice, sharp and dry, crying out, "Then I shall stand beside her!" The king gave a half smile and nodded. Rakustlor, another friend, then nudged up from behind him, raisng his thin arm, his axe in hand, high, "With stone and chizzel, they shall need wood for warmth! These lands have grow barren.I wuld be of far more use to my friends in this!" Ishkilrud, the miner he'd trained with and befriended, then stepped out from the crowd, off to one side. He rested his hands on his pick as though it were a cane. "These hallowed hals are carved my liege. They have been for many generations before me. There is no need of our profession here any longer. If they are to survive, they need proper homes. That is a challenge no single dwarf could hope to shoulder." Olindeleth, the fortrss carpenter, the made her way to the front, the components of a chai half-assembled in one hand. "My woodcutter is leaving, and long to practice my trade once more. I beg of yu, my lord, allow me this opportunity to serve you, to serve the Elder Fortress more than I ever have before!" Finaly, a new farmer and an apprentice brewer stepped foreward. The brewer, Thedakmorul, spoke up, "The farmlord has commanded us to serve. We shall do so with honor. What are your comands?"

The seven dwarves, standing together before their entire people, looked up at the king. And the king smiled back at them. he sat down upon his throne once more, and stroked his mustache. He beckoned them to come closer, and waved the gawkers away.

"You seven are more important than you know. I know you may fear what I amabout to say, but... You are to settle a new fortress. You must forge new wealth. If we do no do this, our people, our oneness, shall fall for good. I do not know where this road leads... To decentralize like this... It is unprecedented in our history... We have never done this. I do not know what lies before you. But your is the fate of us all."

=== Epilogue: ===

This will be done when it's all finished.

== Wiki Stuff ==

{{L|Glass Industry|Glass Industry Flowchart}} designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

User:Kydo

2010-10-25T06:07:37Z

Kydo:

User:Kydo

2010-10-24T19:00:01Z

Kydo: /* Preface: Embark */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

To be written while I work on this. In short, I believe it is possible to make a genuinely appealing and exciting work of fiction, using Dwarf Fortress as a base.

=== Introduction: ===

This will be written in the end.

=== Epigraph: ===

Will be done in the end, IF it's worthwhile.

=== Preface: The World ===

World Size: Large
Hstory: Very Long
Number of Civilizations: Very High
Maximum Number of Sites: Very High
Number of Beasts: Very High
Natural Savagery: Very High

Time Taken: 11:11 AM to 11:34 (23 minutes)
Rejected: 30

Sil Gomath, "The Plane of Legends"

Year: 1,050
Hist Figs: 206,114
Dead: 196,504
Events: 1,411,175

[[Image:World_map-region2-1050--10081.gif|Thumb|200px]]

=== Preface: Embark ===

Local Civs:
Dwarves
Goblins (War)
Humans

Dwarven Civilizations:
The Earthen Floor
The Famous Standard
The Rumored Knife
The Tomes of Air
The Moral Stockade
The Elder Fortress (Parent)
The Considerate Trumpets
The Future Hames
The Radiant Vessel
The Wall of Defending
The Wires of Covering
The Scorching Fence
The Books of Morning
The Tools of Searching

Region: The Willful Hills
Embark Site: 5x5
Temparate Shrubland
Temparature: Warm
Trees: Woodland
Other Vegetation: Moderate
Surroundings: Untamed Wilds

Stream: Balanceslings the Doomed Side

Strata:
Silt
Silt Loam
Sandy Clay
Clay
Rock Salt
Schist
Gabbro
Quartzite

Group: The Arch of Whispering
Fortress: Wadedracks

'''Name:'''
'''Age:'''
'''Gender:'''
'''Appearance:'''

'''Personality:'''

'''Strengths:'''

'''Weaknesses:'''

'''Preferences:'''

'''Skills:'''

--------

'''Name:''' Amkinastesh, "Gladnesscudgels"
'''Age:''' 81
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is aranged in double braids. His very long beard is neatly combed. He has very low cheekbones, and he has a deeply recessed round chin. His somewhat tall, small-lobed ears are very flattened. e is average in size. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somewhat narrow. His cinnamon skin is slightly wrinkled. His hair is ecru with a touch of gray. His eyes are ochre.
'''Personality:'''
He is slow to anger. He is comfortable in soial situation. He is very friendly. He isn't given to flights of fancy. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealing with others. He lacks confidence. He is very disorganized. He rarely does more work than necessary. He inhales sharply when he is angry. He often snaps his fingers when he's bored.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is almost never sick
+ and very slow to tire.
+ He has very good intuition,
+ a natural inclination toward language,
+ a sum of patience
+ and a good spacial sense.
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He is flimsy
- He has a meager ability with social rlationships,
- poor analytical abilities and
- a large deficite of willpower.
'''Preferences:'''
Amkinastesh likes Diorite, trifle pewter, fire agate, oak wood, flounder bone, caps, scepters and horses for their strength. When possible, he prefers to consume bat, ray and longland beer. He absolutely detests lizards.
'''Skills:'''

--------

'''Name:''' Ishkilrud, "Barbronze"
'''Age:''' 54
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is arranged in double braids. His short hair is neatly combed. He is muscular. His somewhat tall ears have great swinging lobes. He has very high cheekbones, and he has a very round chin. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somwhat narrow. His teeth are crowded. He has a low voice. His hair is black. His skin is cinnamon. His eyes are amethyst.
'''Personality:'''
Hei very friendly. He is unassertive. He is rarely happy or enthusiastic. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He is organized. He strives for excellence. He acts impulsively. He begins to talk much more slowly when he's exasperated. When he's thinking, his body becomes very still.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is strong and
+ slow to tire.
+ He has great creativity
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He is flimsy
- he has poor focus,
- an iffy sense for music
- and a meager ability with social relationships
'''Preferences:'''
Ishkilrud likes bituminous coal, billon, red tourmaline, bolts, scepters and glasseye for their coloration. When possible, he prfers to consume lungfish, dwarven rum, whip vine flour and sliver barb seeds. He absolutely detests cave spiders.
'''Skills:'''

'''Name:''' Rakustlor, "Tombstools"
'''Age:''' 79
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
He is very skinny. His sideburns are clean-shaven. His very long moustache is neatly combed. Hi ver long har is neatly combed. His incredibly close-set eyes are bulging. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His slightly flattened ears are smewhat tall. He has high cheekbones. His teeth are crowded. His cinnamon skin islightly wrinkled.
'''Personality:'''
e has a calm demeanor. He is quick to anger. He is comfortable in socia situations. He is often cheerful. He has a fertile imagination. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He is incredibly frank and candid in dealings with others. He doesn't like to compromise with others. He doesn't go out of his way to work more than necessary. He possesses great willpower. He oten bites his nails when he's trying to rememer smething.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is quite quick to heal
+ He has an iron will,
+ great creativity,
+ a sum of patience
+ a a fel for music
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He has a meager ability with social relationships
- Poor empathy
- and poor analytical abilities
'''Preferences:'''
Rakustlor likes rutile, bismuth, yellow jasper, fungiwood, white-handed gibbon bone, backpaks, cages, scepters, donkeys for their stubbornness and demon rats for their diabolical hunger for the food of others. When possible, he prfers to consume giat cave swallow, cave fis and gutter cruor. He absolutely detests lizards.
'''Skills:'''

--------

Starting Stocks:

2 dogs
1 war dog
1 hunting dog

2 coppe picks
1 copper batle axe
1 iron anvil
20 dwarven beer
20 dwarven wine
20 dwarven ale
5 plump helmet spawn
5 pig tal seeds
5 cave wheat seeds
5 sweet pod seeds
4 rock nuts
5 dimple cup spawn
15 pond grabber meat
15 cave fish
15 plump helmets
5 pig tail fiber thread
5 pig tail fiber cloth
5 pig tail fiber bags
3 pig tal fiber ropes
3 fox leather quivers
3 oaken buckets
3 oaken splints
3 oaken crutches

=== Epilogue: ===

This will be done when it's all finished.

== Wiki Stuff ==

{{L|Glass Industry|Glass Industry Flowchart}} designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]

User:Kydo

2010-10-24T18:58:59Z

Kydo: /* Current Fortress */

== Current Fortress ==

=== Title Page: ===

When I have something worthwhile hapen, I'll do a drawing for a genuine cover, and give it an appropriate title.

=== Preface: ===

To be written while I work on this. In short, I believe it is possible to make a genuinely appealing and exciting work of fiction, using Dwarf Fortress as a base.

=== Introduction: ===

This will be written in the end.

=== Epigraph: ===

Will be done in the end, IF it's worthwhile.

=== Preface: The World ===

World Size: Large
Hstory: Very Long
Number of Civilizations: Very High
Maximum Number of Sites: Very High
Number of Beasts: Very High
Natural Savagery: Very High

Time Taken: 11:11 AM to 11:34 (23 minutes)
Rejected: 30

Sil Gomath, "The Plane of Legends"

Year: 1,050
Hist Figs: 206,114
Dead: 196,504
Events: 1,411,175

[[Image:World_map-region2-1050--10081.gif|Thumb|200px]]

=== Preface: Embark ===

Local Civs:
Dwarves
Goblins (War)
Humans

Dwarven Civilizations:
The Earthen Floor
The Famous Standard
The Rumored Knife
The Tomes of Air
The Moral Stockade
The Elder Fortress (Parent)
The Considerate Trumpets
The Future Hames
The Radiant Vessel
The Wall of Defending
The Wires of Covering
The Scorching Fence
The Books of Morning
The Tools of Searching

Region: The Willful Hills
Embark Site: 5x5
Temparate Shrubland
Temparature: Warm
Trees: Woodland
Other Vegetation: Moderate
Surroundings: Untamed Wilds

Stream: Balanceslings the Doomed Side

Strata:
Silt
Silt Loam
Sandy Clay
Clay
Rock Salt
Schist
Gabbro
Quartzite

Group: The Arch of Whispering
Fortress: Wadedracks

'''Name:'''
'''Age:'''
'''Gender:'''
'''Appearance:'''

'''Personality:'''

'''Strengths:'''

'''Weaknesses:'''

'''Preferences:'''

'''Skills:'''

--------

'''Name:''' Amkinastesh, "Gladnesscudgels"
'''Age:''' 81
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is aranged in double braids. His very long beard is neatly combed. He has very low cheekbones, and he has a deeply recessed round chin. His somewhat tall, small-lobed ears are very flattened. e is average in size. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somewhat narrow. His cinnamon skin is slightly wrinkled. His hair is ecru with a touch of gray. His eyes are ochre.
'''Personality:'''
He is slow to anger. He is comfortable in soial situation. He is very friendly. He isn't given to flights of fancy. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealing with others. He lacks confidence. He is very disorganized. He rarely does more work than necessary. He inhales sharply when he is angry. He often snaps his fingers when he's bored.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is almost never sick
+ and very slow to tire.
+ He has very good intuition,
+ a natural inclination toward language,
+ a sum of patience
+ and a good spacial sense.
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He is flimsy
- He has a meager ability with social rlationships,
- poor analytical abilities and
- a large deficite of willpower.
'''Preferences:'''
Amkinastesh likes Diorite, trifle pewter, fire agate, oak wood, flounder bone, caps, scepters and horses for their strength. When possible, he prefers to consume bat, ray and longland beer. He absolutely detests lizards.
'''Skills:'''

--------

'''Name:''' Ishkilrud, "Barbronze"
'''Age:''' 54
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
His hair is quite sparse. His very long sideburns are neatly combed. His very long moustache is arranged in double braids. His short hair is neatly combed. He is muscular. His somewhat tall ears have great swinging lobes. He has very high cheekbones, and he has a very round chin. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His somewhat short head is somwhat narrow. His teeth are crowded. He has a low voice. His hair is black. His skin is cinnamon. His eyes are amethyst.
'''Personality:'''
Hei very friendly. He is unassertive. He is rarely happy or enthusiastic. He prefers familiar routines. He is candid and sincere in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He is organized. He strives for excellence. He acts impulsively. He begins to talk much more slowly when he's exasperated. When he's thinking, his body becomes very still.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is strong and
+ slow to tire.
+ He has great creativity
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He is flimsy
- he has poor focus,
- an iffy sense for music
- and a meager ability with social relationships
'''Preferences:'''
Ishkilrud likes bituminous coal, billon, red tourmaline, bolts, scepters and glasseye for their coloration. When possible, he prfers to consume lungfish, dwarven rum, whip vine flour and sliver barb seeds. He absolutely detests cave spiders.
'''Skills:'''

'''Name:''' Rakustlor, "Tombstools"
'''Age:''' 79
'''Gender:''' Male
'''Appearance:'''
He is very skinny. His sideburns are clean-shaven. His very long moustache is neatly combed. Hi ver long har is neatly combed. His incredibly close-set eyes are bulging. His somewhat short nose is incredibly upturned. His slightly flattened ears are smewhat tall. He has high cheekbones. His teeth are crowded. His cinnamon skin islightly wrinkled.
'''Personality:'''
e has a calm demeanor. He is quick to anger. He is comfortable in socia situations. He is often cheerful. He has a fertile imagination. He does not have a great aesthetic sensitivity. He is incredibly frank and candid in dealings with others. He doesn't like to compromise with others. He doesn't go out of his way to work more than necessary. He possesses great willpower. He oten bites his nails when he's trying to rememer smething.
'''Strengths:'''
+ He is quite quick to heal
+ He has an iron will,
+ great creativity,
+ a sum of patience
+ a a fel for music
'''Weaknesses:'''
- He has a meager ability with social relationships
- Poor empathy
- and poor analytical abilities
'''Preferences:'''
Rakustlor likes rutile, bismuth, yellow jasper, fungiwood, white-handed gibbon bone, backpaks, cages, scepters, donkeys for their stubbornness and demon rats for their diabolical hunger for the food of others. When possible, he prfers to consume giat cave swallow, cave fis and gutter cruor. He absolutely detests lizards.
'''Skills:'''

--------

Starting Stocks:

2 dogs
1 war dog
1 hunting dog

2 coppe picks
1 copper batle axe
1 iron anvil
20 dwarven beer
20 dwarven wine
20 dwarven ale
5 plump helmet spawn
5 pig tal seeds
5 cave wheat seeds
5 sweet pod seeds
4 rock nuts
5 dimple cup spawn
15 pond grabber meat
15 cave fish
15 plump helmets
5 pig tail fiber thread
5 pig tail fiber cloth
5 pig tail fiber bags
3 pig tal fiber ropes
3 fox leather quivers
3 oaken buckets
3 oaken splints
3 oaken crutches
=== Epilogue: ===

This will be done when it's all finished.

== Wiki Stuff ==

{{L|Glass Industry|Glass Industry Flowchart}} designed to replace the old one. Though it was a masterpiece of wiki-magic, it wasn't particularly in-depth, was a little vague, had a couple of inaccurate points, and kept breaking whenever anything changed. Thus, the logical solution is to replace it with a more comprehensive flowchart in the form of an image. Sadly, it's a little too literal, a little too... Blunt. It comes across as somewhat disorienting and menacing. It's a lot of tiny little things to look at, in order to fully interpret the whole... It reads like a schematic diagram of some ornate machine. If you have any ideas on how to make it appear friendlier, or read easier, please say something! I'd love to discuss it with you!

[[Image:Glassflow.png|Thumb|200px]]

And a friendlier version for those of you who prefer to not be intimidated by blank white space.

[[Image:Glassflow2.png|Thumb|200px]]