https://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=KarpatiusDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-04-07T23:22:51ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Still&diff=14961040d Talk:Still2011-05-25T06:25:30Z<p>Karpatius: Small joke about multiple barrels</p>
<hr />
<div>Will food production really drop in the winter any more, now that you can plant plump helmets then? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 15:12, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: It still will (though not as much):<br />
:* reduced fishing (unless in a map that doesn't freeze over)<br />
:* plump helmets are the only indoor winter crop (are you cooking plump helmets)?<br />
:* outdoor crops don't like freezing<br />
:So there are three sources of reduced food in the winter. How much of an effect this has is another matter - but it is still reduced in the winter. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 15:42, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== 'Extract plants to barrel' ==<br />
<br />
Should there be more information on this option? Specifically on the one thing it does, and how that is mostly useless? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:VALIS|VALIS]]</small><br />
:That's "extract plant essence". <_< And this is a wiki for a reason. Try writing the information yourself. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:50, 19 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I'm rather curious myself... it doesn't seem to be doing anything in my current fort, but maybe I have the wrong plants. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:42, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::I know Valley Herbs are one, not sure if there are any others. Building a fortress in grasslands is definitely an unusual thing, though, and Golden Salve doesn't do anything yet, it's just a trade good.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 21:50, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well, I can see one benefit from incompetent harvesters: more booze barrels equals more dwarfs drinking at the same time. What kind of dwarf likes to wait in line for his/her booze?--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 06:25, 25 May 2011 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=138573User:Karpatius2011-03-19T09:11:51Z<p>Karpatius: Idea 26</p>
<hr />
<div>"No Plan is Perfect"<br />
<br />
'''Plan 371: Entrychamber of Final Disappointment'''<br />Dig a tall, narrow chamber into the fortress. Fill the chamber with a vertical stair maze, going up and down randomly and taking a path towards the entrance when space allows, as the only means of entering your actual fortress gate.<br />An assigned Gatekeeper or a pressure plate near the end of the maze will ensure safety of the fort and keep the masons busy.<br /><br />Difficulty: slight; with security moderate<br />Usefulness: usable, so a bad dwarf trick<br /><br />Flaw: flying enemies<br />Correction: fortification corridors along the chamber walls, train only archers in the fort<br /><br />Bonus: lava moat<br />Bonus: have a giant gate at the end of the chamber<br /><br />Bonus: lock the doors just before invaders reach your fort and flood the chamber<br />Mega Bonus: make it magma instead<br />Mega Mega Bonus: mix water and magma, mine out he valuable obsidian, rebuild, rinse and repeat<br /><br /><br />
'''Plan 27: The Vault'''<br />Dig a complex big enough for several rooms and create a farm, some workshops and haul in a few animals. Make sure you have as many crops available inside the vault. Next, dig a chamber around the complex and create a watertight, collapsible ( either destruction or otherwise ) corridor from one of the walls into the complex with a gate at the complex end. Flood the chamber with water and in case of trouble run into the complex and seal yourself in.<br /><br />Difficulty: moderate. The entry corridor and safe flooding might take some thingking.<br />Usefulness: possibly save a few dwarfs or the entire fortress by locking them in a pressure chamber. Since this is pretty much long-term suicidal, a decent dwarf trick<br /><br />Flaw: tantrum spiral if relatives didn't make it in<br />Solution: fancy and artifact furniture<br /><br />Bonus: water tank below the complex to ensure lastability<br />Bonus: instead of water, create lava<br />Bonus: if you used lava, make underground aqueducts for plumbing<br /><br /><br />
<br />
Slorga Rustbeard, Part-time Evil Genius<br /><br /><br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Paranoid<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Accomplished Game Tester<br /></div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=138540User:Karpatius2011-03-18T15:23:08Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>"No Plan is Perfect"<br />
<br />
Plan 371: Entrychamber of Final Disappointment<br />Dig a tall, narrow chamber into the fortress. Fill the chamber with a vertical stair maze, going up and down randomly and taking a path towards the entrance when space allows, as the only means of entering your actual fortress gate.<br />An assigned Gatekeeper or a pressure plate near the end of the maze will ensure safety of the fort and keep the masons busy.<br /><br />Difficulty: slight; with security moderate<br />Usefulness: usable, so a bad dwarf trick<br /><br />Flaw: flying enemies<br />Correction: fortification corridors along the chamber walls, train only archers in the fort<br /><br />Bonus: lava moat<br />Bonus: have a giant gate at the end of the chamber<br /><br />Bonus: lock the doors just before invaders reach your fort and flood the chamber<br />Mega Bonus: make it magma instead<br />Mega Mega Bonus: mix water and magma, mine out he valuable obsidian, rebuild, rinse and repeat<br />
<br />
<br />
Slorga Rustbeard, Part-time Evil Genius<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Paranoid<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Accomplished Game Tester<br /></div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=138539User:Karpatius2011-03-18T15:22:28Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>"No Plan is Perfect"<br />
<br />
Plan 371: Entrychamber of Final Disappointment<br />Dig a tall, narrow chamber into the fortress. Fill the chamber with a vertical stair maze, going up and down randomly and taking a path towards the entrance when space allows, as the only means of entering your actual fortress gate.<br />An assigned Gatekeeper or a pressure plate near the end of the maze will ensure safety of the fort and keep the masons busy.<br /><br />Difficulty: slight; with security moderate<br />Usefulness: usable, so a bad dwarf trick<br /><br />Flaw: flying enemies<br />Correction: Fortifications along the chamber walls, train only archers in the fort<br /><br />Bonus: lava moat<br />Bonus: have a giant gate at the end of the chamber<br /><br />Bonus: lock the doors just before invaders reach your fort and flood the chamber<br />Mega Bonus: make it magma instead<br />Mega Mega Bonus: mix water and magma, mine out he valuable obsidian, rebuild, rinse and repeat<br />
<br />
<br />
Slorga Rustbeard, Part-time Evil Genius<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Paranoid<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Accomplished Game Tester<br /></div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=138530User:Karpatius2011-03-18T14:56:44Z<p>Karpatius: New page and tricks</p>
<hr />
<div>Stupid Dwarf Trick<br />
<br />
#371 Entrychamber of Final Disappointment<br />
Dig a tall, narrow chamber into the fortress. Fill the chamber with a vertical stair maze, going up and down randomly and taking a path towards the entrance when space allows, as the only means of entering your actual fortress gate.<br />
An assigned Gatekeeper or a pressure plate near the end of the maze will ensure safety of the fort and keep the masons busy.<br />
<br />
Bonus: lava moat<br />
Bonus: have a giant gate at the end of the chamber<br />
<br />
Mega Bonus: make a second chamber in case the first is breached and laugh maniacally<br />
<br />
<br />
Slorga Rustbeard, Part-time Evil Genius<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Paranoid<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Accomplished Game Tester<br /></div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:Friedlever.jpg&diff=138034File:Friedlever.jpg2011-03-10T06:54:19Z<p>Karpatius: In Finland we eat fried levers! ( some noble mispelled liver )</p>
<hr />
<div>In Finland we eat fried levers! ( some noble mispelled liver )</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:Skeletal_duck.png&diff=137155File:Skeletal duck.png2011-02-27T15:02:58Z<p>Karpatius: Does the duck lay eggs...?</p>
<hr />
<div>Does the duck lay eggs...?</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Flour&diff=3197140d Talk:Flour2009-09-23T06:31:24Z<p>Karpatius: Mock insult</p>
<hr />
<div>Should we have a flour page and a separate page for each *kind* of flour? Might as well merge them unless anyone has a problem with it.<br />
<br />
For reference, [[dwarven wheat flour]], [[whip vine flour]], and [[longland flour]] are the pages I"m referring to. --Gotthard 18:36, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I'd like to know the difference in values between flours. What are the most valuable food ingredients, anyway?--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 03:31, 21 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Moonshine and megabeast meat, being the most valuable, are one highly desirable ludicrous meal ingredients. "Meat has a base value of 2☼ multiplied by the MOD_VALUE of the animal the meat came from, so meat from exotic creatures is worth far more than meat from more common animals." from the [[meat]] page. Thus, megabeast-megabeast-megabeast-moonshine-meals are fit for kings, while swampbrew-donkey-meals are... ugh... a trial, lets say.(unsigned by [[Karpatius]], 02:50, August 14, 2009)<br />
::I would assume that by "moonshine" you actually mean [[sunshine]]. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::You, sir, are no dwarf, for preferring the sun. -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 06:31, 23 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Floodgate&diff=1370540d Talk:Floodgate2009-09-06T00:51:47Z<p>Karpatius: /* Small Floodgate */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Floodgates vs magma==<br />
... but only '''stone''' and metal will hold back magma.<br />
<br />
Is this true? In the last version only steel was strong enough to contain magma. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Well, my dolomite floodgates were enough to hold magma. So stone floodgates are capable of holding magma. Dunnoe about wooden ones though. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:59, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Not true. I used stone floodgates all the time with magma in the last version. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 00:52, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you needed steel to bridge over magma --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:11, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Alright, the dolomite floodgates that I've mentioned earlier seem to have disappeared, presumably melted away. Thus I'm led to belive that only steel(or better) floodgates are capable of holding magma now. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 09:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::From what I've seen stone floodgates are, at the moment, one use like the steel ones listed in the article...but for different reasons. A closed stone floodgate will hold back magma indefinitely (probably for the same reason that the normal stone walls hold magma as they do), but once you link and open it the magma enters the same tile and turns any stone into it's molten counterpart. This means both your stone floodgate and stone mechanism are turned to slag and eventually lost to the magma forever. I would bet that the steel floodgates are still there, but forever locked in their open state since your mechanism just got turned to goo and you can no longer select the flood gate from the lever's link menu. Perhaps [[Bauxite|Bauxite]] might be able to survive the magma, but I need to find some first in order to test that theory.{{version|0.27.169.33b}} --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:28, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Interestingly enough, I do believe dolomite has a high melting point and is somewhat heat resistant...<br />
<br />
:::To clear things up: build both floodate and mechanism from a material listed at [[Magma-safe materials]].[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:13, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::In the current version (40d) I've successfully used bauxite floodgates/mechanisms to control magma flow. Bauxite is your best bet (and less costly than steel in terms of material). Sdu - 01/11/2008<br />
----<br />
<br />
==Activation time==<br />
Interesting note, floodgates seem to take approximately 100 steps to open after activation, from my experimentation. Maybe this could be used in the article somehow? <br />
[[User:NullAshton|NullAshton]] 23:51, 1 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Ooh, interesting. Exactly the same amount as a bridge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:36, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== opening and closing ==<br />
<br />
do I '''have''' to use a lever to open and close a floodgate? Early on - I have a room next to a river - I want to put a floodgate in the corridor and "bucket fill" a "pond" from the outside.<br />
<br />
will this plan work or do I '''need''' a lever?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:55, 5 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:You need some kind of machine to trigger it, yes. Pressure plates work as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:20, 5 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Construction ==<br />
<br />
All right... I have a 1-wide channel, with a floodgate "placed" not "built" somewhere along it.<br />
Access is from a stair to the right.<br />
No matter if I put the build command closer to the stair, or further away from the stair, the dwarves seem to build the floodgate so that it cuts off their exit! WTF is one to do here? I keep ordering the dwarf that just built the floodgate to remove it so they can get out again.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:34, 2 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Hook it to a mechanism and open it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 00:59, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah well when I get a mechanic that is the general plan ;) but right now it's sitting in the middle of a channel while I prey for more immigrants before all of my dwarves die of thirst![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:48, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::All right, I have opening and closing floodgates now.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:45, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Would you mind posting a pic of your setup? I'm a mite confused on this also....[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 22:38, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Sorry that fortress is lost to it being a very early experiment.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:13, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
== River crossings ==<br />
<br />
I can dam/divert a river with floodgates I hope. <br />
If I dig a channel 1 z-level down, then build a wall, the top is a floor I can walk across. Why isn't the top of a floodgate a floor? it is silly that I have to build a floodgate then a bridge as well, and connect them to the same lever, if I want a floodgate I can walk over. (in real life even a simple drop-board weir - which is pretty mcuh a timber floodgate - can be walked over so that you can put the boards in and out).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:45, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:PS. I am diverting my brook by digging a channel through it while it is frozen then building a series of floodgates in the resulting channel. I guess this will work (here's for trying) but how would one divert a river?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:47, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Non-freezing? Very difficult to get to work properly, dependent on the terrain of course. Basically, you'd have to dig quite a large pond/lake for the river to fill while scrambling like mad to get those dwarves to install all the floodgates or build the walls before the flow into the lake slows enough for construction-blocking waterlevels to start flowing again. Definitely suggest a stockpile immediately adjacent to the closest entry point to the downstream side of the dam to hopefully avoid a waste of time if only one or two dwarves get their lazy butts over to the work that needs to be done! As for freezing; well, that's always been child's play, and I always wonder why people bother asking someone "if the map they're on freezes," anytime someone says they need help trying to dam a flow. ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:30, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Well, I have dug a channel in the ice. There are some boulders left behind as well as it seems some ice blocks. I think these will be off to make a pond as ice hauling seems much more efficient to me than bucket hauling?<br />
:But anyway, the channel is all marked as "blocked" when I try to build floodgates. Will see what it's like when the ice blocks are all gone.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:40, 6 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::To make your dwarf build on the right side you can "suspend" ('s' key is the shortcut) the building as soon as the dwarf starts on the wrong side. As soon as they move away you then un-"suspend" the construction and they should attempt to build it again. It can take a few tries but it works.<br />
<br />
:::Another way is just to let them build it on the wrong side and have a miner dig out a square adjacent to the floodgate. You may need to dig out one more square but then you you can wall them up with the (C)onstruction building task. - Sdu 01/11/2008<br />
<br />
:::Some people use doors instead of floodgates to do the same job which means that whatever side your dwarf builds it, he can still walk back through it. - Sdu 01/11/2008<br />
<br />
== Floodgate swept away ==<br />
<br />
With version 38a I noticed that floodgates can be swept away by molten rock which is pushed by the flowing lava. I don't know if this also happend with earlier versions since this was the first time, because of lack of fule and wood, that I actually used magma.<br />
Somebody should probably mention in the article that it is advisable to remove rocks from the magma channel to prevent this. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 11:53, 9 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The floodgate was verified beforehand to have been built, and not simply dropped and forgotten? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:39, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm quite sure that it was build, and not just dropped. It was even connected to a lever and was working. For a short time at least... And I'm also quite sure that I used Bauxit mechanism for it. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 09:53, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::A non-bauxite mech. would be my next point of inquiry, and just to make sure we're not missing the obvious, the floodgate itself was magma-proof? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:14, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, the floodgate too was made of Bauxit, and it is still visible in my magma silo. ([http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/TaBu-NiW/magmachamber.png?t=1203005405 Link to image]) [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 11:11, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::Can you reproduce this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:21, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::::No. I tried a few times to reproduce this, but never succeeded. Probably I just forgot to use bauxit mechanism the first time. Though, I would have sworn that I did. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 20:14, 8 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No Access ==<br />
<br />
I dug a diagonal tunnel towards a water source and I wanted to put a floodgate inside it - and one on the end where my farm will be - to create a reservoir. But I get the message, "no access" when I try to build the floodgate inside the tunnel. Apparently floodgates can only be placed when there is horizontal or vertical access to the square? (I planned to connect a lever to it so I don't need to stand next to it.)<br /><br />
That does indeed seem to be the case. I was able to place one in the middle of a horizontal tunnel but not in a diagonal one. I dug an extra square (ruining my perfect symmetry with an ugly dogleg :)) and was able to put the floodgate inside my diagonal tunnel. --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 01:15, 6 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== bug? ==<br />
<br />
i wanted to water some rock below my fortress with the water from my moat, so i built a setup like this:<br />
..~.<br><br />
..x.<br><br />
.> . surface level -1<br><br />
..x.<br><br />
..~.<br><br />
<br />
....<br><br />
.< x surface level -2<br><br />
....<br><br />
<br />
basically, the idea was that the area between the floodgates on the top level would fill with water, BUT while the top two were open, the bottom one would be closed. so i hooked up the top two to a lever, pulled it, built the third floodgate, linked that to the lever. so now my top two gates are open, and the bottom one closed. this would make sure that only the amount of water i wanted would go onto my plot. however, when i next pulled the lever, the top two closed, but the bottom one didnt open. i pulled it again and all 3 opened. so dont go doing this yourself, use two levers instead of 1. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:09, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::This is intended. Levers have an "on" and an "off" state. Pulling them switches the lever state and updates all connected constructions to the new state. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 12:47, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::use a pressure plate to cut off the area you don't want flooded beyond a certain depth.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== A Question on Flow and Floodgates ==<br />
<br />
So I had my two-[[floodgate]] system for letting [[magma]] into the trench below my smelting and forging rooms, each floodgate hooked up to a separate [[lever]]. The 'downstream' gate was right next to the [[ramp]] down which the magma was meant to [[flow]]. The upstream floodgate worked fine, and the magma went into the trench fine, but when I attempted to close the downstream gate, it re-appeared at the bottom of the channel. Was it swept away by the flow as it was trying to close? What happened there? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 19:21, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:What material was the floodgate made out of? What material were the mechanisms made out of? It seems that the magma melted something and deconstructed the floodgate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:36, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::It looks like this was answered higher on this page: The floodgate was made of bauxite, but the mechanism was not and must have melted once the gate was opened. Should really have seen that coming, I guess. Well, only a few rooms are full of magma, I'm sure it'll cool in a month or two. Lesson learned. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:19, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Placement and seeing it work ==<br />
<br />
I'm not sure if my flood gate is working. Once you place it, is it able to block water already or only after you connect a lever and pull it? It doesn't move in the z-axis? I'm not sure if it goes up or down from placement like if I had to dig and extra level down below them in order to get it move. I'm sure it just blocks one z-level of water right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 10:18, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:They start working as soon as they're built. They block water and dwarves, which can lead to a dwarf being trapped behind the floodgate until you ''very quickly'' get another dwarf to built a lever, connect it to the floodgate, and pull it, to open the floodgate. When they're opened, like bridges, they don't occupy a different z-level position - they just disappear. It only blocks one z-level of water, yes. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:39, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Well - they are "1 square wide". Nobody ever said the open part of a floodgate is the full 1-square wide, but they don't show up when opened.<br />
::Maybe there should be a tile for an open floodgate which shows posts on both sides and an opening in the middle. But then you would need to "orient" the floodgate.<br />
::My guess for a rock one: a ten foot (square) by two foot slab of rock that pivots centrally when opened. So when open it's still there in the middle of the tile, just oriented to let the fluid move through.<br />
::[http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/resources/soils/ass/leaflet/6 Look here] for some pictures of low-tech real-world ones - I'm sure the dwarves build ones which are pretty similar, just they use rock instead of concrete.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::And for "tidal floodgates" that link contains the following disadvantage:<br />
::::''Disadvantages: There is a minor risk of being jammed open (as with normal gates). May require a new gate to be made in some cases.''<br />
:::So don't be too hard on your dwarves building floodgates that can't handle high temperatures, us humans can't even get it right (low-tech) with just water![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:31, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::A pivoting slab (basically a giant butterfly valve) sounds like a good idea, but it wouldn't match the behavior of floodgates in the game. I routinely use a row of three floodgates as my fortress' main entrance, left open by default. Since caravan wagons can pass through when open there can't be any obstructions in those three squares, so I assume the floodgates must operate like vertical sliding sluice gates instead. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:34, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Advantage over doors? ==<br />
<br />
Aside from being able to make them wider than two tiles, is there any reason to use a floodgate rather than a (stone) door? The floodgates take longer to open and close, and block dwarves from whatever they desperately want that's always behind them... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 01:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Desire for authenticity and/or accuracy generally. Basically, a fair amount of people feel that doors shouldn't be as good as floodgates for holding back the waters. And Toady has said that this will be fixed in a later release. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:49, 1 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Can floodgates be smashed by megabeasts as doors can? That might be another reason. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 20:00, 4 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::Yeah. They can. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:59, 4 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Materials to build a Floodgate ==<br />
<br />
Hello everybody, shouldn't be there a list of the needed components to build a floodgate? Chris <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Sherelian|Sherelian]]</small><br />
<br />
:*10 seconds- time taken to look for floodgate jobs in the manager's job queue. (u>m>q>floodgate)<br />
:*1 minute- time taken to copypaste and adjust identical sentence from [[door]].<br />
:*50 seconds- time taken to find out who you *actually* are and sign your comment for you.<br />
:*1 minute- time taken to give you a response.<br />
:*3 minutes- time I donated to your life. Hope you enjoy it! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:01, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No Atomsmasher Floodgates? ==<br />
Can I kill goblins if i trap them on an open floodgate and then close it? [[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 16:30, 3 June 2009 (EST)<br />
:I believe that it will just block the floodgate from closing. So, anything can block a floodgate, even a butterfly corpse.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 15:35, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Confirmed. And edited into article.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Small Floodgate==<br />
Considering that farming will require a more or less permanent water source, small floodgates would be nice. This way you don't have to "slightly flood" the farm all the time, although this wouldn't be difficult with a gently overflowing pool next or near to the farm... What else could you use? Screw pumps seem a bit too aggressive for irrigation... -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 21:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
require a more or less permanent water source<br />
:Don't understand what you mean - this is not true at all. Only stone needs irrigation, and only if it's underground (AG won't work), and only once. Then, the water can be filled with magma for all you care.<br />
:One screwpump w/ walls and/or tunnels to channel the flow are a classic solution. The pump and walls can be deconstructed once the job is done if you want.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::In the future... Farming will change to require regular irrigation and thus be more realistic and challenging than current single-irrigation. Or so I read... -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 00:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Floodgate&diff=1370340d Talk:Floodgate2009-08-18T21:49:03Z<p>Karpatius: Partial floodgate opening</p>
<hr />
<div>==Floodgates vs magma==<br />
... but only '''stone''' and metal will hold back magma.<br />
<br />
Is this true? In the last version only steel was strong enough to contain magma. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Well, my dolomite floodgates were enough to hold magma. So stone floodgates are capable of holding magma. Dunnoe about wooden ones though. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:59, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Not true. I used stone floodgates all the time with magma in the last version. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 00:52, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you needed steel to bridge over magma --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:11, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Alright, the dolomite floodgates that I've mentioned earlier seem to have disappeared, presumably melted away. Thus I'm led to belive that only steel(or better) floodgates are capable of holding magma now. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 09:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::From what I've seen stone floodgates are, at the moment, one use like the steel ones listed in the article...but for different reasons. A closed stone floodgate will hold back magma indefinitely (probably for the same reason that the normal stone walls hold magma as they do), but once you link and open it the magma enters the same tile and turns any stone into it's molten counterpart. This means both your stone floodgate and stone mechanism are turned to slag and eventually lost to the magma forever. I would bet that the steel floodgates are still there, but forever locked in their open state since your mechanism just got turned to goo and you can no longer select the flood gate from the lever's link menu. Perhaps [[Bauxite|Bauxite]] might be able to survive the magma, but I need to find some first in order to test that theory.{{version|0.27.169.33b}} --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:28, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Interestingly enough, I do believe dolomite has a high melting point and is somewhat heat resistant...<br />
<br />
:::To clear things up: build both floodate and mechanism from a material listed at [[Magma-safe materials]].[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:13, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::In the current version (40d) I've successfully used bauxite floodgates/mechanisms to control magma flow. Bauxite is your best bet (and less costly than steel in terms of material). Sdu - 01/11/2008<br />
----<br />
<br />
==Activation time==<br />
Interesting note, floodgates seem to take approximately 100 steps to open after activation, from my experimentation. Maybe this could be used in the article somehow? <br />
[[User:NullAshton|NullAshton]] 23:51, 1 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Ooh, interesting. Exactly the same amount as a bridge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:36, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== opening and closing ==<br />
<br />
do I '''have''' to use a lever to open and close a floodgate? Early on - I have a room next to a river - I want to put a floodgate in the corridor and "bucket fill" a "pond" from the outside.<br />
<br />
will this plan work or do I '''need''' a lever?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:55, 5 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:You need some kind of machine to trigger it, yes. Pressure plates work as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:20, 5 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Construction ==<br />
<br />
All right... I have a 1-wide channel, with a floodgate "placed" not "built" somewhere along it.<br />
Access is from a stair to the right.<br />
No matter if I put the build command closer to the stair, or further away from the stair, the dwarves seem to build the floodgate so that it cuts off their exit! WTF is one to do here? I keep ordering the dwarf that just built the floodgate to remove it so they can get out again.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:34, 2 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Hook it to a mechanism and open it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 00:59, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah well when I get a mechanic that is the general plan ;) but right now it's sitting in the middle of a channel while I prey for more immigrants before all of my dwarves die of thirst![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:48, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::All right, I have opening and closing floodgates now.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:45, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Would you mind posting a pic of your setup? I'm a mite confused on this also....[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 22:38, 3 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Sorry that fortress is lost to it being a very early experiment.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:13, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
== River crossings ==<br />
<br />
I can dam/divert a river with floodgates I hope. <br />
If I dig a channel 1 z-level down, then build a wall, the top is a floor I can walk across. Why isn't the top of a floodgate a floor? it is silly that I have to build a floodgate then a bridge as well, and connect them to the same lever, if I want a floodgate I can walk over. (in real life even a simple drop-board weir - which is pretty mcuh a timber floodgate - can be walked over so that you can put the boards in and out).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:45, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:PS. I am diverting my brook by digging a channel through it while it is frozen then building a series of floodgates in the resulting channel. I guess this will work (here's for trying) but how would one divert a river?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:47, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Non-freezing? Very difficult to get to work properly, dependent on the terrain of course. Basically, you'd have to dig quite a large pond/lake for the river to fill while scrambling like mad to get those dwarves to install all the floodgates or build the walls before the flow into the lake slows enough for construction-blocking waterlevels to start flowing again. Definitely suggest a stockpile immediately adjacent to the closest entry point to the downstream side of the dam to hopefully avoid a waste of time if only one or two dwarves get their lazy butts over to the work that needs to be done! As for freezing; well, that's always been child's play, and I always wonder why people bother asking someone "if the map they're on freezes," anytime someone says they need help trying to dam a flow. ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:30, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Well, I have dug a channel in the ice. There are some boulders left behind as well as it seems some ice blocks. I think these will be off to make a pond as ice hauling seems much more efficient to me than bucket hauling?<br />
:But anyway, the channel is all marked as "blocked" when I try to build floodgates. Will see what it's like when the ice blocks are all gone.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:40, 6 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::To make your dwarf build on the right side you can "suspend" ('s' key is the shortcut) the building as soon as the dwarf starts on the wrong side. As soon as they move away you then un-"suspend" the construction and they should attempt to build it again. It can take a few tries but it works.<br />
<br />
:::Another way is just to let them build it on the wrong side and have a miner dig out a square adjacent to the floodgate. You may need to dig out one more square but then you you can wall them up with the (C)onstruction building task. - Sdu 01/11/2008<br />
<br />
:::Some people use doors instead of floodgates to do the same job which means that whatever side your dwarf builds it, he can still walk back through it. - Sdu 01/11/2008<br />
<br />
== Floodgate swept away ==<br />
<br />
With version 38a I noticed that floodgates can be swept away by molten rock which is pushed by the flowing lava. I don't know if this also happend with earlier versions since this was the first time, because of lack of fule and wood, that I actually used magma.<br />
Somebody should probably mention in the article that it is advisable to remove rocks from the magma channel to prevent this. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 11:53, 9 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The floodgate was verified beforehand to have been built, and not simply dropped and forgotten? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:39, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm quite sure that it was build, and not just dropped. It was even connected to a lever and was working. For a short time at least... And I'm also quite sure that I used Bauxit mechanism for it. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 09:53, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::A non-bauxite mech. would be my next point of inquiry, and just to make sure we're not missing the obvious, the floodgate itself was magma-proof? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:14, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, the floodgate too was made of Bauxit, and it is still visible in my magma silo. ([http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t243/TaBu-NiW/magmachamber.png?t=1203005405 Link to image]) [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 11:11, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::Can you reproduce this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:21, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::::No. I tried a few times to reproduce this, but never succeeded. Probably I just forgot to use bauxit mechanism the first time. Though, I would have sworn that I did. [[User:Buckermann|Buckermann]] 20:14, 8 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No Access ==<br />
<br />
I dug a diagonal tunnel towards a water source and I wanted to put a floodgate inside it - and one on the end where my farm will be - to create a reservoir. But I get the message, "no access" when I try to build the floodgate inside the tunnel. Apparently floodgates can only be placed when there is horizontal or vertical access to the square? (I planned to connect a lever to it so I don't need to stand next to it.)<br /><br />
That does indeed seem to be the case. I was able to place one in the middle of a horizontal tunnel but not in a diagonal one. I dug an extra square (ruining my perfect symmetry with an ugly dogleg :)) and was able to put the floodgate inside my diagonal tunnel. --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 01:15, 6 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== bug? ==<br />
<br />
i wanted to water some rock below my fortress with the water from my moat, so i built a setup like this:<br />
..~.<br><br />
..x.<br><br />
.> . surface level -1<br><br />
..x.<br><br />
..~.<br><br />
<br />
....<br><br />
.< x surface level -2<br><br />
....<br><br />
<br />
basically, the idea was that the area between the floodgates on the top level would fill with water, BUT while the top two were open, the bottom one would be closed. so i hooked up the top two to a lever, pulled it, built the third floodgate, linked that to the lever. so now my top two gates are open, and the bottom one closed. this would make sure that only the amount of water i wanted would go onto my plot. however, when i next pulled the lever, the top two closed, but the bottom one didnt open. i pulled it again and all 3 opened. so dont go doing this yourself, use two levers instead of 1. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:09, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::This is intended. Levers have an "on" and an "off" state. Pulling them switches the lever state and updates all connected constructions to the new state. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 12:47, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::use a pressure plate to cut off the area you don't want flooded beyond a certain depth.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== A Question on Flow and Floodgates ==<br />
<br />
So I had my two-[[floodgate]] system for letting [[magma]] into the trench below my smelting and forging rooms, each floodgate hooked up to a separate [[lever]]. The 'downstream' gate was right next to the [[ramp]] down which the magma was meant to [[flow]]. The upstream floodgate worked fine, and the magma went into the trench fine, but when I attempted to close the downstream gate, it re-appeared at the bottom of the channel. Was it swept away by the flow as it was trying to close? What happened there? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 19:21, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:What material was the floodgate made out of? What material were the mechanisms made out of? It seems that the magma melted something and deconstructed the floodgate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:36, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::It looks like this was answered higher on this page: The floodgate was made of bauxite, but the mechanism was not and must have melted once the gate was opened. Should really have seen that coming, I guess. Well, only a few rooms are full of magma, I'm sure it'll cool in a month or two. Lesson learned. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:19, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Placement and seeing it work ==<br />
<br />
I'm not sure if my flood gate is working. Once you place it, is it able to block water already or only after you connect a lever and pull it? It doesn't move in the z-axis? I'm not sure if it goes up or down from placement like if I had to dig and extra level down below them in order to get it move. I'm sure it just blocks one z-level of water right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 10:18, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:They start working as soon as they're built. They block water and dwarves, which can lead to a dwarf being trapped behind the floodgate until you ''very quickly'' get another dwarf to built a lever, connect it to the floodgate, and pull it, to open the floodgate. When they're opened, like bridges, they don't occupy a different z-level position - they just disappear. It only blocks one z-level of water, yes. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:39, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Well - they are "1 square wide". Nobody ever said the open part of a floodgate is the full 1-square wide, but they don't show up when opened.<br />
::Maybe there should be a tile for an open floodgate which shows posts on both sides and an opening in the middle. But then you would need to "orient" the floodgate.<br />
::My guess for a rock one: a ten foot (square) by two foot slab of rock that pivots centrally when opened. So when open it's still there in the middle of the tile, just oriented to let the fluid move through.<br />
::[http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/resources/soils/ass/leaflet/6 Look here] for some pictures of low-tech real-world ones - I'm sure the dwarves build ones which are pretty similar, just they use rock instead of concrete.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::And for "tidal floodgates" that link contains the following disadvantage:<br />
::::''Disadvantages: There is a minor risk of being jammed open (as with normal gates). May require a new gate to be made in some cases.''<br />
:::So don't be too hard on your dwarves building floodgates that can't handle high temperatures, us humans can't even get it right (low-tech) with just water![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:31, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::A pivoting slab (basically a giant butterfly valve) sounds like a good idea, but it wouldn't match the behavior of floodgates in the game. I routinely use a row of three floodgates as my fortress' main entrance, left open by default. Since caravan wagons can pass through when open there can't be any obstructions in those three squares, so I assume the floodgates must operate like vertical sliding sluice gates instead. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:34, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Advantage over doors? ==<br />
<br />
Aside from being able to make them wider than two tiles, is there any reason to use a floodgate rather than a (stone) door? The floodgates take longer to open and close, and block dwarves from whatever they desperately want that's always behind them... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 01:39, 1 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Desire for authenticity and/or accuracy generally. Basically, a fair amount of people feel that doors shouldn't be as good as floodgates for holding back the waters. And Toady has said that this will be fixed in a later release. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:49, 1 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Can floodgates be smashed by megabeasts as doors can? That might be another reason. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 20:00, 4 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::Yeah. They can. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:59, 4 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Materials to build a Floodgate ==<br />
<br />
Hello everybody, shouldn't be there a list of the needed components to build a floodgate? Chris <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Sherelian|Sherelian]]</small><br />
<br />
:*10 seconds- time taken to look for floodgate jobs in the manager's job queue. (u>m>q>floodgate)<br />
:*1 minute- time taken to copypaste and adjust identical sentence from [[door]].<br />
:*50 seconds- time taken to find out who you *actually* are and sign your comment for you.<br />
:*1 minute- time taken to give you a response.<br />
:*3 minutes- time I donated to your life. Hope you enjoy it! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:01, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No Atomsmasher Floodgates? ==<br />
Can I kill goblins if i trap them on an open floodgate and then close it? [[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 16:30, 3 June 2009 (EST)<br />
:I believe that it will just block the floodgate from closing. So, anything can block a floodgate, even a butterfly corpse.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 15:35, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Confirmed. And edited into article.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Small Floodgate==<br />
Considering that farming will require a more or less permanent water source, small floodgates would be nice. This way you don't have to "slightly flood" the farm all the time, although this wouldn't be difficult with a gently overflowing pool next or near to the farm... What else could you use? Screw pumps seem a bit too aggressive for irrigation... -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 21:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Flour&diff=3196840d Talk:Flour2009-08-14T09:50:25Z<p>Karpatius: Meal value help</p>
<hr />
<div>Should we have a flour page and a separate page for each *kind* of flour? Might as well merge them unless anyone has a problem with it.<br />
<br />
For reference, [[dwarven wheat flour]], [[whip vine flour]], and [[longland flour]] are the pages I"m referring to. --Gotthard 18:36, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I'd like to know the difference in values between flours. What are the most valuable food ingredients, anyway?--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 03:31, 21 December 2007 (EST)<br /><br />
:Moonshine and megabeast meat, being the most valuable, are one highly desirable ludicrous meal ingredients. "Meat has a base value of 2☼ multiplied by the MOD_VALUE of the animal the meat came from, so meat from exotic creatures is worth far more than meat from more common animals." from the [[meat]] page. Thus, megabeast-megabeast-megabeast-moonshine-meals are fit for kings, while swampbrew-donkey-meals are... ugh... a trial, lets say.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=2258240d Talk:Challenges2009-05-06T08:00:23Z<p>Karpatius: College idea</p>
<hr />
<div>==Prison Complex==<br />
The idea is to build a large detention centre for the Mountainhomes.<br />
Your starting 7 are the only dwarves allowed as wardens (except immigrants already in the military) and should have military skills and some basic construction skills.<br />
All immigrants are treated as prisoners, and should be met as soon as possible once they enter the map and shepherded into the prison.<br />
The cells should be arranged on three or four z-levels and all cell doors on a row linked to a lever in a seperate guard-only area.<br />
'New fish' entered into general population during the out-of-cell hours, then all prisoners locked up for the night.<br />
Some prisoners are on food duties - farming and such - but all food for prisoners to be dished out in a canteen.<br />
Prisoners may also work on crafting items for the guards to trade.<br />
Ideally many of your inmates are going to lose the plot and start attacking other inmates, leading to riots and all sorts. Send in the dogs!<br />
<br />
I'm sure there are other interesting additions to this concept, but my experience with large and especially themed fortresses is limited.<br />
I'd love it if anyone could expand this, and maybe figure out how to control the prisoners, get them all to bed etc.<br />
Also, this is my first post on these pages, so hope I'm doing it right. :)<br />
<br />
==Colorful==<br />
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Sparta==<br />
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."<br />
<br>why? --Savok <br />
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br />
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br />
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br />
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br />
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
==No mining==<br />
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]</small><br />
<br />
:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Assassination==<br />
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: How did you get it to work? I've tried starting with goblins and they are always "friendly" on the unit screen and so I can not attack them. Is there some trick to getting them hostile so you can do this sort of thing? 40d, by the way. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Humanlike? ==<br />
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br />
<br />
(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br />
<br />
(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br />
<br />
(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br />
<br />
It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br />
<br />
(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br />
<br />
Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br />
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br />
<br />
Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br />
<br />
They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br />
<br />
Description:<br />
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br />
<br />
P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]</small><br />
<br />
:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]</small><br />
<br />
== Dystopian society ==<br />
<br />
Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Underwater Building ==<br />
<br />
I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)<br><br />
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br />
<br />
:I recommend either<br />
:#Don't build it in the ocean.<br />
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br />
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Dwarf Factory ==<br />
<br />
--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br />
<br />
Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br />
<br />
Variants: <br /><br />
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.<br /><br />
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.<br /><br />
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.<br /><br />
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.<br /><br />
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.<br /><br /><br />
<br />
Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.<br /><br />
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br />
<br />
How's it sound?<br />
<br />
== Luxurious Tomb ==<br />
<br />
Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br />
<br />
Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br />
<br />
BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br />
<br />
BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br />
<br />
:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
..<br />
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
>^<br />
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br />
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br />
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br />
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br />
| / <br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/<br />
|\<br />
| \<br />
| \<br />
| \<br />
:Or:<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/___<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/___<br />
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Agoraphobia ==<br />
<br />
Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==<br />
<br />
Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Genesis==<br />
Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves. <br />
<br />
::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.<br />
<br />
::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.<br />
<br />
::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.<br />
<br />
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.<br />
<br />
:::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.<br />
<br />
:::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize. <br />
<br />
:::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.<br />
<br />
:::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Noblesse requis==<br />
<br />
Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Sure &ndash; it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!<br />
:Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma/Lava Waterfall ==<br />
<br />
Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves & ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.<br />
:On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Which is why it's great building your fort into the the ledge a few levels over a Magma Pipe ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:01, 12 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Hmm, that would be one way to do it, too bad I can't search for maps with that specific of a terrain set. Anyways, there has to be a way to spill off at least some of the magma as the magma pipes fill slowly but constantly from the bottom. Also, I learned from my failed experiment that Coke roads + magma spillover = road of fire. Unusable except for turning your fortress into Mordor, which is awesome in it's own way. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 21:29, 12 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::LOL, yes, I saw that and was thinking something along the lines of Mordor myself ;) As for spill over, the magma tends to flow off to the side off the top of the magma pipe where I'm at, resulting in a net loss to evaporation, so I just turn it off for a season once or twice a year. As for finding a magma pipe that's exposed *and* sunken, to provide atleast one level of inaccessible floor around the pipe, I'd look in the mountains, where you've got many many levels of elevation. Or atleast, that's what my map looks like (50+ levels) with the majority of the map being mountain tiles, and one corner (of a 2x4 map) being desert. It had two * listed in the height map, '''''but no chasm''''', so that could help to find one. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:35, 14 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Or, how about a dual water/magma waterfall, meeting on the road leading in? Encase your enemies in carbonite, err, obsidian. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:31, 15 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "Real time" challenge talk ==<br />
<br />
1) As mentioned in the challenge, opening any menu pauses the game<br />
<br />
2) "You have struck Alunite!" Anyone else get this message and a pause every 5 minutes?<br />
<br />
If you were to keep the game running while you slept -- and trust me, I have -- all it takes is one minor inconvenience of the legion the game contains to pause it. I set the game to keep running before I went to bed one night, and between doing that and going to brush my teeth, it paused. I resumed, lay down in bed, and not a minute later, I opened my eyes to see the game had paused ''again.'' Too much stuff causes the game to pause to really execute this without constant babying.<br />
<br />
Overall, I don't see this challenge as being feasible. Not bad in theory, but impossible in practice. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 06:15, 16 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Yes, thats true. That challenge would require either a new version where pausing-for-announcements can be disabled or a helper program to automatically acknowledge them and unpause the game. [[User:Random|Random]] 20:54, 16 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Hermit Challenge ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone have any tips for not having any damn migrants? The carps can't eat everyone.<br />
: Well, you can just kill them all. Atom smasher, lava, water, goblin siege, choose your way to kill them. Even random ballista bolt could do the trick! Bonus point for the creative part !? :D [[User:Karl|Karl]] 19:45, 21 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::Well, if the problem gets too extreme, you can adjust your maximum population to 1 in the ini files, and see if that works...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 20:43, 21 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::: It doesn't work. The POPULATION_CAP seems bugged something awful. [[User:AbuDhabi|AbuDhabi]] 02:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== The Great Wall of [Kingdom] ==<br />
<br />
Here's an interesting challenge:<br />
<br />
Your kingdom needs a great impenetrable defense to protect against your goblin enemies. You have been assigned to build a giant wall!<br />
<br />
The wall must stretch from one side to the opposite, have a height of 5 z-axis, be four tiles wide complete with gate(s), towers, fortifications, ballistas and catapults. You must also position a crossbowdwarf at every ten tiles.<br />
<br />
* BONUS: Build it right next to a goblin lair.<br />
* BONUS: Build it all using only wood.<br />
* BONUS++: Build it all using only soap!<br />
<br />
[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:16, 22 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:This wouldn't work due to the fact that you can't build walls (among other things) too close to the edge. At best, it would have to start six tiles in on both sides. However, you could implement an existing hill/mountain to "assist" with the completion of the wall.<br />
:[[User:Nocash|Nocash]] 18:30, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Ah, good point. I kinda forgot about that. [[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 05:50, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::You could use raised bridges at the ends, they can be built right up to the edges. --[[User:Torasin|Torasin]] 13:25, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Pave the World? ==<br />
<br />
If one where to flood the world with magma, then flood it with water, you would be left with a solid block of obsidian, am I right? (along with ALOT of steam.) Bonus for paving the elves. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Rewrite ==<br />
Alright, this article is getting way too messy. 60 top-level items is more than most talk pages, many of them overlap each other, the ones involving goblin forts are out of date (as local goblins are automatically friendly as of 40d) and some of them just plain aren't challenges.<br />
<br />
For now I've split them up into three broad categories, and I plan to weed out redundant/wrong bits and streamline the whole thing while still hopefully preserving some of the "flavor text". [[User:Walliard|Walliard]] 04:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== College ==<br />
A center for enlighted craftsmanship studying and teaching. There should be auditoriums for each workshop type lined with chairs and a few lecture rooms with ascending rows of chairs where nobles rant to the peasants how lesser they are and to teach them manners. A canteen and dorms will also be needed.<br />
<br />
Minor bonus: auditoriums are designated as meeting halls and have balconies and floor hatches on the ceiling to allow best studying with illuminated stages.<br /><br />
Minor bonus: Hold keger parties each night.<br /><br />
Bonus: Do not make co-ed dorms; married couples can rent a small apartment from nearby study houses.<br /><br />
Bonus +: Engligthen other races.<br /><br />
Ultimate bonus: Englighten orcs, goblins and other less friendly creatures. -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Instrument&diff=4817340d Talk:Instrument2009-03-25T11:59:35Z<p>Karpatius: Music idea</p>
<hr />
<div>Would be interesting if bought intsruments were used for music at dining and throne rooms for happy thoughts from the diners/king. And demanding atleast some music would give one more reason to hate nobles. -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 11:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42298User:Karpatius2009-02-10T06:49:53Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchhikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br />Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Novice Game Tester<br /><br />
<br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate and rugged looks, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, snow for its natural beaty, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is somewhat paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Strange Mood: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius has died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42297User:Karpatius2009-02-10T06:48:38Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchhikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br />Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Novice Game Tester<br /><br />
<br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate and rugged looks, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, snow for its natural beaty, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is somewhat paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Strange Mood: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius has died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42296User:Karpatius2009-02-10T06:48:08Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br />Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Novice Game Tester<br /><br />
<br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate and rugged looks, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, snow for its natural beaty, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is somewhat paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Strange Mood: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius has died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Lever&diff=2330240d Talk:Lever2008-12-19T11:10:59Z<p>Karpatius: References to levers idea</p>
<hr />
<div>== floodgates vs. doors misinformation? ==<br />
"''Therefore, it is more logical to use doors, at least until doors aren't usable for holding back water.''"<br />
<br />
I'm fairly certain that doors can't be closed while flooded. They work as described for opening via lever, but cannot close when blocked by water or creatures.<br />
Granted, the last time i've levered doors was back in 2d. Please verify or change the wording? --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 15:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:In the current version{{version|0.27.176.38c}} doors can close if water currently occupies the same square. I believe elsewhere the wiki states this destroys the water, but I have not verified if the water is destroyed. --[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 16:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Does it matter how much water? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:35, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I have verified this with water of depth 1 and 7, but not values in between.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 13:38, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Todo: Check whether two levers connected to the same door operate it in the same way the older versions did - that is, pulling each lever once would open the door, then do nothing as the second lever is pulled. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 19:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I'm using vertical bars as portcullis for my keep, and they attach to levers. Perhaps a comment that bars and grates operate identically in this version, specifically with respect to levers? -Gotthard<br />
<br />
Doesn't the delay come from the floodgate grinding to close the water/magma channel/tunnel compared to a door slamming shut right away? --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:That is what it is meant to simulate. Like people mentioned above, though, Toady's said that doors shouldn't work as well as floodgates, so in some later version your doors will probably leak. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:09, 31 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== controlling at a distance ==<br />
<br />
Does the lever need to be adjacent to the item it is controlling?<br />
<br />
I want to put a floodgate at the end of a channel... [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:52, 23 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:No, it can be anywhere.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
so, analog to the support-cave-in-trap how about building a nice water basin, say 4x4 for a start and covering it with grates, all connected to a lever - do grates have to be attached to a wall or floor on one side? I will try *broad grin* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Grates must be attached to a wall on one side, although you can put grates next to only grates and the dwarves will build them. Followed by their collapse. Like walls off bridges.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Try building supports under them. SL's hand of armok uses supports under hatches in a similar way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, its not working like i wanted it too. The support thing will probably work. Or I will just leave a few walls in the basin..will try that later, busy right now. *watches goblin fly away in high arc* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:52, 3 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Regarding remote activation/control: I just spent 10 minutes berating my dwarves for completely ignoring two Pull Lever commands while vile forces of darkness approached, only to find that once I removed the Dwarves Stay Indoors restriction, they happily stepped up to the, uh, lever. The bridges are outside, the levers are on the level below. Has anyone else experienced this? [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 17:49, 22 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Was the lever and/or any part of the path to the lever marked as "outside"? Use {{k|k}} to check. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I checked and one of the levers was indeed marked "outside". In fact, there are several squares on my first underground level that are marked "outside". Is that because they are in the general area of the stairway leading outside? Thank you for the info. --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 18:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::When I quit reading all new forum messages and stayed at the wiki, I thought this would stop. [[Outside|Read The Wiki]]. Really. Read it. No, really, click on that link. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:57, 29 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts ==<br />
<br />
I have noticed that a bridge that a hydra is standing on cannot be retracted {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. Has anyone else had similar experiences? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Titans cause the same problem. I conjecture that bridged can't be retracted while megabeasts are standing on them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Also elephants, it seems. Possibly creature size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Dragons cause the same problem. Are megabeasts supposed to all show up at once like this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:43, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Proposed addition: Mechanism sequence ==<br />
<br />
Given the problems that arise when using non magma-safe materials for mechanisms on floodgates, it is quite handy to know which mechanisms go where at the link selection (When for example you're really low on bauxite).<br><br />
From my experimentation with floodgate-lever, the first mechanism selected goes at the gate and the second one at the lever. I still haven't activated the contraption, but I'm assuming it's going to be ok.<br><br />
I'm also assuming the same is usefull for grates and bars. --[[User:Nonickch]], unsigned<br />
<br />
:There is some lower-down text that tells you which mechanism goes in where. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Finding Links ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible to determine what a lever is linked to without pulling it and checking to see what happens? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 00:43, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:AFAIK the only way is to attempt to link the lever to a built object and notice which one if any is not available.<br />
:eg if you have two bridges but only one is available to be linked to, it is because you are already linked to the other one.<br />
:This would be a really good feature if it was implemented.<br />
:[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I guess this is one good use for the new note-feature: Just use the same note for lever and target. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Right now your best way to remember what lever does what is to build a reference behind the lever as a reminder: a one-tile bridge behind the<br />"front door/bridge" lever, a support behind the "collapse the mountain" lever and so forth... or write down what does what on paper.<br />Even naming levers would be useful but for now you need the "references." -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 06:10, 19 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Max number of links? ==<br />
<br />
''Is there a limit to the amount of objects that can be linked to a lever?''--[[User:Thendash|Thendash]] 22:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Speeding the job of linking ==<br />
<br />
Is it just me or does it not only take forever to finish the job of linking the lever to something, but also the dwarves treat it as extremely low priority? I've sometimes had to had an entire year for one of them to deign to hook it up. Incidentally, it is the Mechanics job that they use for that, right? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I haven't noticed anything about the priority of the job, but yes, it take hella long to finish it. Some big linking job (eg. linking a large bridge to a remote lever) are virtually impossible to complete without an experienced mecanic... dwarves don't manage to end the job before feeling the urge to eat or drink or something, and all their work is lost when they return, ending in an infinite loop. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 19:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Unless it's changed in the year since I've played, the mechanic must move the mechanisms to the lever and the "something", then spend time working on both the lever and the "something", all without being interrupted. Consider a 1-square stockpile next to both the lever and the something and choosing those unique mechanisms when you assign the linkage job. -- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:42, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: The catch, so far, is figuring out the "unique" mechanisms in the list. Short of making sure that that stockpile is the only one that carries Schist Mechanisms or something similar... Unlike the other "pick an item" lists, you can't specify a sort and there's nothing zooming you to the item that you will use. On a mildly unrelated note, I realized that part of the reason for my delay was that I was building large amounts of stone traps, so the nearest mechanism that was not already tied up in a trap building job was quote some distance away. I had this problem with the nearby stockpile as well, as it was also fairly close to the traps. It would be nice to even get a distance count on the mechanisms. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::When you choose the mechanism for the lever or trap, it does tell you its distance.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Addendum to Maximus's comment: When selecting the material to be used, you can e{{k|x}}pand the list of materials, and then select a particular item. Therefore, you can build a single-tile stockpile, then customize it (using {{k|q}} then {{k|s}}settings) to only allow a certain quality mechanism. Link the lever after these stockpiles have been filled. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:21, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Inverting a Lever ==<br />
<br />
I think I found a way to automatically invert the signal of a lever, say if you wanted one lever to open one door and close another. It involves a bridge and water, so it would not be instant. I haven't tested it yet. Anyone know if it would work?<br />
<pre>Side view: (Sorry, I realize this isn't the standard tileset, but my text editor doesn't have them all.)<br />
#####<br />
#_~@W<br />
##D##<br />
<br />
W - Water source (Under at least 7/7 pressure)<br />
D - Water drain<br />
_ - Pressure plate, set to activate under water of depth 4-7<br />
@ - Hinge of a raisable bridge, connected to the main lever (offscreen)<br />
~ - Bridge over channel<br />
# - Solid rock</pre><br />
When the main lever is OFF, the bridge is down. It allows water to flow past its hinge, and it covers the drain. Water fills the room, triggering the plate, which sends an ON signal.<br><br />
When the main lever is ON, the bridge raises. The hinge blocks water from flowing in, and the uncovered drain empties the room. The plate detriggers, sending OFF.<br><br />
WARNING: The drain must not fill! If it does, you wont be able to get into the room to connect more mechanisms to the plate.<br />
Option: If your water source is infinite, make your drain a hallway, at least 3 long, with a raising bridge that comes down from the far end. When the main lever is activated, the hallway floods. Shortly afterwards, the plate detriggers. After a short delay, the bridge slams down, destroying the water. <br><br />
--17:52, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Isn't it simpler to build two levers? Especially considering the pressure plate takes as many mechanisms? I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.<br />
:--[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 17:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::If you want a single action to do some "on" actions and some "off" actions - e.g. if from a stylistic point of view you want to have a single "activate outer defenses" lever that raises bridges over moats and puts down bridges blocking catapults.<br />
::--[[User:Random832|Random832]] 19:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: It's more than stylistic. My designs are complex systems, created on the assumption that only certain combinations of states are possible - that when ''this'' bridge is down, ''that'' bridge is always up, and that when ''this'' floodgate is open, ''that'' door is always closed. If I allow things to enter a condition I hadn't planned for - either because I forgot to throw both leavers, or the dwarf died between them, or whatever - there is literally no telling what would happen. It could drop civilians into a line of fire, or flood the fortress, or expose the marksdwarves to the enemy without also releasing their infantry guards. <br />
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'd say you should consult the [[Computing]] and [[Mechanical Logic]] pages then. Should find all the components you need there. <br />
:--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:13, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Doesn't help. That's all about power transfer - gears, axels, waterwheels... It only uses levers for input, not output - I could connect my controll leaver to a not-gate like [[Mechanical_Logic#NOT_or_BUFFER|this one]], but how do i connect ''that'' to a bridge?<br />
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:17, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Connect that power to a screw pump, that pours water onto a pressure plate. There's an example of such a device on the mechanics page. Take a look as Water/Fluid logic as well (Linked to on the mechanical page) for some other pump-based devices.<br />
:::--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 06:56, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::It's... ''workable'', I suppose. It's much more complex than the bridge system. It might be faster responding, depending on the speed at which a pump works, since there is no 100 step delay like a bridge. It would take a lot more room and mechanisms, not to mention a seperate power source for each one. Remember, each leaver you invert need its own, independent setup.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:09, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Check out this page, it might help.. www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:SL/Logic_Gates.<br />
::::[[User:Martinuzz|Martinuzz]] 8:54, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: So the goal here is to have water on a pressure plate when a lever is set to ON. Don't hatch covers respond quicker than bridges?<br />
<br />
: Gee, this sucks. I thought things just toggled whenever you flipped the lever. That's how it should be IMHO. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 20:31, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
Side view:<br />
<br />
####<br />
#^HW<br />
##D#<br />
<br />
^ = Pressure Plate<br />
W - Water Inlet<br />
D - Drain<br />
H - Hatch Cover<br />
# - Solid rock<br />
</pre><br />
:Main lever linked to Hatch Cover (H). When the lever is OFF, the hatch is closed and the Pressure Plate (^) chamber fills. When the lever is ON, the Hatch Cover (H) disappears and water drains away before reaching the pressure plate ledge.<br />
:[[User:Wangcommander|Wangcommander]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: But since you're not actually blocking off the water, you are dependent on the fickleness of the water pressure simulation. Sure, the room would never fill with an open hatch between the water source and the hatch, but after the first use it ''starts off'' filled. Are you certain it will drain? If the water comes in from the source as fast as it goes out the drain, will it not stay full? That's the advantage of using the bridge - it is the only piece of equipment that blocks water in the ON position.<br />
:: A hybrid design might be useful, using a bridge to block the input bu a hatch to control the output. When you switch it, the hatch instantly starts draining the water, then the bridge seals the inlet 100 ticks later to guarantee a complete drain.<br />
:: --[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:04, 12 November 2008 (EST)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Legendary_artifact&diff=3027940d Talk:Legendary artifact2008-12-05T10:42:20Z<p>Karpatius: Artifact display ideas</p>
<hr />
<div>==What can become an artifact?==<br />
What are some of the things that dwarfs can make into artifacts? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:59, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Any item that your dwarves can craft and has a quality modifier can be made into artifacts. This includes armor, clothing, weapons, all kinds of crafts, furniture, cut gems and whatnot. Notable exceptions include coins(dunnae have quality modifiers), buildings(aint items) and babies(those rascals!). Bars, blocks, raw glass and other such base materials have no quality modifier and cannot be artifacts. I've never seen or heard about legendary meals, drinks and cloth/thread, so I think they can't be artifacts either. Though dwarves will say that they've eaten a legendary meal, when they've consumed a masterpiece meal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:02, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::Ive heard of someone creating a artifact meal and almost having it rot away before getting it into the food stockpile [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:00, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
==Destruction==<br />
On #bay12games, there was some question about artifacts being destroyed by magma. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also ways to destroy artifacts which aren't listed: Trading, dumping in magma vent (the floorless bottom seems to count as chasm), and dropping a bridge on it. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:I can't imagine anything not made of a [[magma-proof]] base material *not* being destroyed by any significant immersion in magma. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:29, 20 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::And yet because it's an artifact, it may have a special flag that prevents specifically that. Can anyone confirm non-magma-proof artifact destruction in magma? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Nevermind. I did. Artifact mechanism melted in magma. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
Can artifacts burn? After a very large confrontation with a couple dozen spirits of fire, my artifact kobold bone shield is putting off lots of smoke and burning anyone that comes near it, but isn't actually on fire (there's no !! next to the name). After about a year of it smoking up my fort, I channeled the ground under it and built a floor on top of it. 5 years later, it's still there, still smoking, and apparently hot enough to make the walls around it warm. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:44, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:By any chance is it encircled with bands of plutonium?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:33, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Whoops, wrong bone shield. My other artifact bone shield is the buggered one: ''Tabaralen, "The Faithful Moth" This is a giant cave spider chitin shield. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. Is is decorated with turtle shell and goblin bone. This object menaces with spikes of giant cave spider chitin, Native gold and Tower-cap. On the item is an image of two shields in Phyllite. On the item is an image of Tirist Leaderhammer the dwarf and dwarves in turtle shell. Tirist Leaderhammer is surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the ascension of the dwarf Tirist Leaderhammer to leadership of The Boats of Swallowing in 98. On the item is an image of Mosus Autumnstockade the dwarf in Phyllite.'' [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:06, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Furniture ==<br />
<br />
All right, so what can I do with a legendary [[lace agate]] [[hatch cover]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 22 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:<s>Same thing as 90% of Artis. Sell it or</s> Build it in a Noble's room. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:04, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: Artifacts are not tradeable. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:19, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::Really... that's weird then since I would swear that I sold a particularly valuable bracelet after killing off it's creator that was otherwise useless... Being that it was a good amount of time ago (possibly even pre-3D) that I actually *tried* to sell an arti, it's quite likely that time has muddled an attempt to sell into a successful sale. I suppose this somewhat nullifies my previous comment, since it's far less than 90% of artis which are buildable. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
We just endured a rather nasty goblin ambush (I'd built a nice castle but hadn't yet built a real military to go with it, so we huddled inside with the drawbridge up for a whole season while I had my dwarves equip and train a small army to "break out" with) and one of my peasants gave me the nicest present after we cleaned up; a legendary goblin bone door made out of the bones of our fallen enemies. I very much want to use this as our castle's main entrance door now. Does anyone know if an artifact's indestructibility applies to trolls and similar door-wreckers? Oh, I've got magma, so I'll make a copy of the save game and test whether magma can burn through such a thing too. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 15:30, 5 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:It's a constructed nonterrain feature, thus it's going to be knocked down by anything that deconstructs constructions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Hmph. I'll put it a couple of layers deep inside my fortifications, then. Guests will pass through it but invaders will have to fight pretty hard to get there. I'll just have to be satisfied with my giant electrum drawbridge as a fancy front door. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 18:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
My current fortress desperately needs display cases or pedestals for artifacts... or statues could hold them; a legendary blowgun, two scepters and a mask would look cool on statues holding them or in cases. You can build furniture artifacts but currently the only way to "display" other artifacts is to create a stockpile for them.<br />Hmm... imagine a legendary king's statue holding several other artifacts. Forced happyness on anyone walking past it.<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 05:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Artifact menu ==<br />
<br />
I seem to recall stumbling across a list of the various legendary artifacts I had created. Can anyone tell me how to get to it again?<br />
:If you're talking about current artifacts in a given fortress, you get a new menu option once you've produced atleast one in that fortress. (lowercase {{k|L}}) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
much better<br />
--[[User:NateAustin|NateAustin]] 17:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Trade ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible to trade legendary artifacts? I just got a legendary statue and it currently sitting my furniture storage. I 've tried to get my dwarves to bring it to the depot, but it doesnt show up on the trade list. Is it possible? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
:No, Artifacts are not tradeable. They will not even take them to the depot if they sit in a bin marked for trade. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Value ==<br />
The value can be found under the artifact menur "l"<br />
what is the maximum calue you have found on an artifact, mine is platnium high boot for 146400? --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]<br />
:There is a thread on the forums somewhere with this specific purpose. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== "Finished Goods"-type Artifacts...? ==<br />
<br />
I understand the point of furniture artifacts- they can be built and are great for nobles- but what the heck are you supposed to do with artifact rings/amulets/crowns/scepters/et cetera? I'm sitting on over 300,000 value worth of "Finished Goods" artifacts. I guess my dwarves don't like building furniture... --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]<br />
<br />
:You could abandon the fortress and come back in adventure mode. Artifact rings? Too good! --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 11:01, 15 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:There might be more point to those types if/when artifacts start getting special magical effects. That's probably a long ways off though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:16, 15 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:But even in Adventure Mode, artifacts (besides weapons/armor) don't have much of a point, right? To be honest, I've never gone through Adventure Mode- ''it lags my laptop''. Sad, I know. But like BahamutZERO said, at least they'll gain some point ''eventually''... And hopefully soon. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:46, 15 May 2008 (CST)<br />
<br />
::Well you can trade 'em to merchants in Adventure mode, I'd imagine? Maybe not, I've never tried, and I doubt the shops sell anything you'd care about (ie masterpiece steel or adamantine weapons and armor). Still, I think it's fun to walk around wearing an artifact ring or amulet! At least until an archer kills you. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:45, 16 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::As far as I can tell, artifact crafts/goblets/etc are used entirely for boosting your fortress created wealth stat. There is rarely a time when a sudden 200k added to that is trivial.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Artifact craft items work weird in Adventure mode: you can sell them to a shopkeeper for all their goods and cash, and just pick it back up and walk away without guards jumping you for thievery; you can even re-sell it to the same guy if he has any money left. This is a pretty blatant exploit, though of limited use (coins is heavy!). You cannot, however, fast travel with an artifact you've already sold. But what does a wandering professional spearelf do with a turtle bone crown, anyway? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== selling ==<br />
<br />
is there a way to hack DF and be able to sell artifacts? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:58, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Artifact millstones and gems ==<br />
My dwarves have made three artifacts so far; I know that my emerald flask is just for style, but what of the "Perfect Aquamarine" and the Millstone? Will some noble love having a mill placed in his bedroom, grinding away at all hours of the night when he's trying to sleep, or is it just going to annoy him? As for the aquamarine, can it be crafted into furniture? Will this raise the item's value exponentially? Will it still serve to elevate a room to royal status for satisfying noble needs? If no one has the answers to these questions, I'll do the research myself and post findings.<br />
--[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:33, 2 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Go ahead and use the millstone -- it'll work just fine. As for the gem, it just looks pretty. Sometimes gem cutters make large gems, and you can trade them away.[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 11:16, 16 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Artifact quality modifier? ==<br />
<br />
I know that the quality modifier for regular equipped items is 1.0... for masterful it's 2.0... But what is the modifier for artifact level items? I can't find it anywhere. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:The QUALITY modifier for artifacts is the same as Masterful, 2.0. The VALUE modifier of artifacts is MUCH higher than the Masterful's x12, though. :) AFAIK, the only difference is that only Legendary weapon/armor users can equip legendary weapons/armors. I may be wrong but I believe I read something to that effect a few months back. ----[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:00, 12 August 2008<br />
<br />
== Too precious to put down ==<br />
<br />
Am I the only one whose dwarves create legendary... [[floodgate]]s, put them down in the workshop and immediately pick them up again... then continue on with their merry lives just significantly weighed down?<br />
<br />
I have never been able to use an artifact yet. My dwarves just never let them go!<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:04, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That's never happened to me, fortunately. I've seen three legendary doors, a legendary grate, a legendary bed, and a legendary batman cabinet, and was able to place them all normally. In fact, I've never had a military dwarf who was skillful enough to be worthy of picking up a legendary weapon or piece of armor. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:37, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I do believe that, in earlier versions, artificiers would carry their artifacts with them until death ripped them from their icy fingers. Perhaps you're just using an older version...? [[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:04, 12 August 2008<br />
<br />
== Weird Materials (and armour?) ==<br />
<br />
"Artifact weapons won't be used by recruits and normal warriors, only by elites and champions." Does this include armour? Also, should we add somewhere that weird materials are possible? Platinum plate armour (which is AWESOME) and the like that aren't normally possible? (I know I've seen it said ''somewhere'', but it's not here) [[User:Droqen|Droqen]] 10:58, 27 July 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: My Charbone Battle Axe says it should be written down SOMEWHERE :P ...as does my Kunzite Cabinet and Blue Garnet Statue. I have some crazy dwarves. Oh, and that thing about any room with an artifact in it being royal....bunk. I have an artifact Bismuth Chain in a throne room, place didn't get bumped up to royal status until I also threw in the artifact Oaken Hatch Cover. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 11:51, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: I think that, more specifically, it is that ''most'' artifacts will bump up a room to royal but all. Example: I have a Purple Spinel Door (worth 48000) that bumped up three rooms at once to royal quality. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:07, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Um, my craftsdwarf just got possessed, and he made a bone spear. "this is a rhesus macaque bone spear, highest quality craftsdwarfship, adorned with hanging rings of birch. does anyone how much damage it will do? is it even possible? [[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Bone gives a 0.5 damage multiplier, but being an artifact gives it a massive (though unknown) damage multiplier also. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== availability ==<br />
Is there a way to hack the game so you can make artifact weapons, even if the dwarf isn't in a fey mood? Or better, for them out of nothing? -Eddren, Fortress extraordinar<br />
<br />
:Firstly, you signed incorrectly. Use four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to sign with the name and date.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, you spelled 'extraordinaire' incorrectly.<br />
<br />
:Thirdly, no, not without modifying the source, which would mean you'd need to be a developer (which is, at the time of writing, just one person--Toady), or you'd need to decompile the executable to the base code (good luck with that). And after that, you'd need to be knowledgeable enough in the language it's written in to modify the code to suit your needs.<br />
<br />
:In short, no. Wait for moods, like the ''rest'' of us do. And don't expect to be able to create '''artifacts''' out of '''nothing'''. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:55, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Artifact Quine! ==<br />
<br />
My Tanner claimed a leatherworking shop and produced a self-referential artifact: Lathonnunùr, "The Mythical Crevices", a donkey leather mask.<br />
:This is a donkey leather mask. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. This object menaces with spikes of dog leather and Alunite. '''On the item is an image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in donkey leather.''' On the item is an image of Portalshades the alligator and dwarves in muskox leather. Portalshades in surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the rise of the alligator Portalshades as an enemy of The Problematic Sack in 29.<br />
Presumably the image is recursive? Anyway, this artifact was apparently ''so cool'' that it created a disturbance in the Force which the dwarves back home managed to pick up, because the very next caravan to arrive offered an empty lead cage decorated with a (presumably also recursive) picture of The Mythical Crevices:<br />
:This is a well-crafted Lead cage. It is decorated with exceptionally worked giant eagle leather and encircled with bands of exceptionally worked Ruby. On the item is a finely-designed image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in Cassiterite.<br />
(Note that I'm running with <tt><nowiki>[SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:YES]</nowiki></tt>, and my fortress started in the year 88. I didn't feel like waiting for the whole thousand-year history to generate &mdash; if you hit Escape during worldgen, you can start playing with the universe "so far". Useful thing to know.)<br />
--[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 23:40, 3 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Reclaim Mode and Artifacts ==<br />
<br />
It seems that if you have artifacts, lose your fortress, then reclaim, the artifacts are weirdly affected. Artifacts become sellable, for a start. This kinda makes sense because your dwarves don't care so much about someone else's artifacts, I suppose. The really odd thing, though, is that constructed artifacts (grates, doors, etc) seem to stop being artifacts. Shislugbumal becomes merely an elf bone throne - and if you view the items in the "building" the throne contains a Shislugbumal which isn't marked [B], can't be dumped or claimed, isn't listed in the stocks screen etc. And if the throne is deconstructed, it ceases to exist entirely. It does, however, still give a huge boost to the room value. Is this normal behavior?<br />
<br />
PS: Damnit, every time I look to this wiki my dwarves all run off to be eaten by skeletal horses. Bastards. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 10:57, 25 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Adventure Mode Artfact Oddity ==<br />
So I go to my fortress where two artifacts, a spear and a boot, happen to be still inside the forge. I take the spear and boot out, equip the spear, drop the boot, and look again. It shows that the spear and boot are still in the forge, with an additional boot outside the forge. Further, when I fast travel and end up fighting a bear, the spear is gone from my hand. Thankfully I'd kept the old one as a spare. Any ideas what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:57, 3 October 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Cistern&diff=4453640d Talk:Cistern2008-11-27T13:51:59Z<p>Karpatius: Ramp carving note</p>
<hr />
<div>Ripheus's first new page.<br />
<br />
Formatting is a little rough, consider yourself deputized to clear it up if you've got the skillz.<br />
<br />
Also, upon consideration, the page is very similar to [[reservoir]], though I'm thinking they're different enough to both exist.[[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 03:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
I suggest merging this and reservoir into the same page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:37, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
A fairly easy way to hollow out a cistern without elaborate designing is simply marking an area of [[ramps]] one level below where you are going to have the top of the cistern. The ground on the current level will be cleared off ( turned into down ramps ) and the same happens to the lower level when you assign a new ramp layer under that. And don't worry; when you assign ramps under ramps, the ramps on top will be cleared out safely.<br />Easy underground tank hollowing. Although you'll need stairs to climb for the miners sooner or later...<br />
:-[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:51, 27 November 2008 (EST)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42295User:Karpatius2008-10-31T12:54:47Z<p>Karpatius: New stuff</p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br />Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br />Novice Game Tester<br /><br />
<br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate and rugged looks, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, snow for its natural beaty, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is somewhat paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Eat: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius has died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Lever&diff=2329540d Talk:Lever2008-10-31T12:51:05Z<p>Karpatius: /* floodgates vs. doors misinformation? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== floodgates vs. doors misinformation? ==<br />
"''Therefore, it is more logical to use doors, at least until doors aren't usable for holding back water.''"<br />
<br />
I'm fairly certain that doors can't be closed while flooded. They work as described for opening via lever, but cannot close when blocked by water or creatures.<br />
Granted, the last time i've levered doors was back in 2d. Please verify or change the wording? --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 15:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:In the current version{{version|0.27.176.38c}} doors can close if water currently occupies the same square. I believe elsewhere the wiki states this destroys the water, but I have not verified if the water is destroyed. --[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 16:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Does it matter how much water? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:35, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I have verified this with water of depth 1 and 7, but not values in between.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 13:38, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Todo: Check whether two levers connected to the same door operate it in the same way the older versions did - that is, pulling each lever once would open the door, then do nothing as the second lever is pulled. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 19:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I'm using vertical bars as portcullis for my keep, and they attach to levers. Perhaps a comment that bars and grates operate identically in this version, specifically with respect to levers? -Gotthard<br />
<br />
Doesn't the delay come from the floodgate grinding to close the water/magma channel/tunnel compared to a door slamming shut right away? --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== controlling at a distance ==<br />
<br />
Does the lever need to be adjacent to the item it is controlling?<br />
<br />
I want to put a floodgate at the end of a channel... [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:52, 23 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:No, it can be anywhere.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
so, analog to the support-cave-in-trap how about building a nice water basin, say 4x4 for a start and covering it with grates, all connected to a lever - do grates have to be attached to a wall or floor on one side? I will try *broad grin* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Grates must be attached to a wall on one side, although you can put grates next to only grates and the dwarves will build them. Followed by their collapse. Like walls off bridges.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Try building supports under them. SL's hand of armok uses supports under hatches in a similar way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, its not working like i wanted it too. The support thing will probably work. Or I will just leave a few walls in the basin..will try that later, busy right now. *watches goblin fly away in high arc* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:52, 3 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Regarding remote activation/control: I just spent 10 minutes berating my dwarves for completely ignoring two Pull Lever commands while vile forces of darkness approached, only to find that once I removed the Dwarves Stay Indoors restriction, they happily stepped up to the, uh, lever. The bridges are outside, the levers are on the level below. Has anyone else experienced this? [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 17:49, 22 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Was the lever and/or any part of the path to the lever marked as "outside"? Use {{k|k}} to check. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I checked and one of the levers was indeed marked "outside". In fact, there are several squares on my first underground level that are marked "outside". Is that because they are in the general area of the stairway leading outside? Thank you for the info. --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 18:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::When I quit reading all new forum messages and stayed at the wiki, I thought this would stop. [[Outside|Read The Wiki]]. Really. Read it. No, really, click on that link. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:57, 29 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts ==<br />
<br />
I have noticed that a bridge that a hydra is standing on cannot be retracted {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. Has anyone else had similar experiences? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Titans cause the same problem. I conjecture that bridged can't be retracted while megabeasts are standing on them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Also elephants, it seems. Possibly creature size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Dragons cause the same problem. Are megabeasts supposed to all show up at once like this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:43, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Proposed addition: Mechanism sequence ==<br />
<br />
Given the problems that arise when using non magma-safe materials for mechanisms on floodgates, it is quite handy to know which mechanisms go where at the link selection (When for example you're really low on bauxite).<br><br />
From my experimentation with floodgate-lever, the first mechanism selected goes at the gate and the second one at the lever. I still haven't activated the contraption, but I'm assuming it's going to be ok.<br><br />
I'm also assuming the same is usefull for grates and bars. --[[User:Nonickch]], unsigned<br />
<br />
:There is some lower-down text that tells you which mechanism goes in where. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Finding Links ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible to determine what a lever is linked to without pulling it and checking to see what happens? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 00:43, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:AFAIK the only way is to attempt to link the lever to a built object and notice which one if any is not available.<br />
:eg if you have two bridges but only one is available to be linked to, it is because you are already linked to the other one.<br />
:This would be a really good feature if it was implemented.<br />
:[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I guess this is one good use for the new note-feature: Just use the same note for lever and target. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Max number of links? ==<br />
<br />
''Is there a limit to the amount of objects that can be linked to a lever?''--[[User:Thendash|Thendash]] 22:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Speeding the job of linking ==<br />
<br />
Is it just me or does it not only take forever to finish the job of linking the lever to something, but also the dwarves treat it as extremely low priority? I've sometimes had to had an entire year for one of them to deign to hook it up. Incidentally, it is the Mechanics job that they use for that, right? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I haven't noticed anything about the priority of the job, but yes, it take hella long to finish it. Some big linking job (eg. linking a large bridge to a remote lever) are virtually impossible to complete without an experienced mecanic... dwarves don't manage to end the job before feeling the urge to eat or drink or something, and all their work is lost when they return, ending in an infinite loop. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 19:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Unless it's changed in the year since I've played, the mechanic must move the mechanisms to the lever and the "something", then spend time working on both the lever and the "something", all without being interrupted. Consider a 1-square stockpile next to both the lever and the something and choosing those unique mechanisms when you assign the linkage job. -- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:42, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: The catch, so far, is figuring out the "unique" mechanisms in the list. Short of making sure that that stockpile is the only one that carries Schist Mechanisms or something similar... Unlike the other "pick an item" lists, you can't specify a sort and there's nothing zooming you to the item that you will use. On a mildly unrelated note, I realized that part of the reason for my delay was that I was building large amounts of stone traps, so the nearest mechanism that was not already tied up in a trap building job was quote some distance away. I had this problem with the nearby stockpile as well, as it was also fairly close to the traps. It would be nice to even get a distance count on the mechanisms. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::When you choose the mechanism for the lever or trap, it does tell you its distance.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Addendum to Maximus's comment: When selecting the material to be used, you can e{{k|x}}pand the list of materials, and then select a particular item. Therefore, you can build a single-tile stockpile, then customize it (using {{k|q}} then {{k|s}}settings) to only allow a certain quality mechanism. Link the lever after these stockpiles have been filled. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:21, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Inverting a Lever ==<br />
<br />
I think I found a way to automatically invert the signal of a lever, say if you wanted one lever to open one door and close another. It involves a bridge and water, so it would not be instant. I haven't tested it yet. Anyone know if it would work?<br />
<pre>Side view: (Sorry, I realize this isn't the standard tileset, but my text editor doesn't have them all.)<br />
#####<br />
#_~@W<br />
##D##<br />
<br />
W - Water source (Under at least 7/7 pressure)<br />
D - Water drain<br />
_ - Pressure plate, set to activate under water of depth 4-7<br />
@ - Hinge of a raisable bridge, connected to the main lever (offscreen)<br />
~ - Bridge over channel<br />
# - Solid rock</pre><br />
When the main lever is OFF, the bridge is down. It allows water to flow past its hinge, and it covers the drain. Water fills the room, triggering the plate, which sends an ON signal.<br><br />
When the main lever is ON, the bridge raises. The hinge blocks water from flowing in, and the uncovered drain empties the room. The plate detriggers, sending OFF.<br><br />
WARNING: The drain must not fill! If it does, you wont be able to get into the room to connect more mechanisms to the plate.<br />
Option: If your water source is infinite, make your drain a hallway, at least 3 long, with a raising bridge that comes down from the far end. When the main lever is activated, the hallway floods. Shortly afterwards, the plate detriggers. After a short delay, the bridge slams down, destroying the water. <br><br />
--17:52, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Isn't it simpler to build two levers? Especially considering the pressure plate takes as many mechanisms? I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.<br />
:--[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 17:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::If you want a single action to do some "on" actions and some "off" actions - e.g. if from a stylistic point of view you want to have a single "activate outer defenses" lever that raises bridges over moats and puts down bridges blocking catapults.<br />
::--[[User:Random832|Random832]] 19:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: It's more than stylistic. My designs are complex systems, created on the assumption that only certain combinations of states are possible - that when ''this'' bridge is down, ''that'' bridge is always up, and that when ''this'' floodgate is open, ''that'' door is always closed. If I allow things to enter a condition I hadn't planned for - either because I forgot to throw both leavers, or the dwarf died between them, or whatever - there is literally no telling what would happen. It could drop civilians into a line of fire, or flood the fortress, or expose the marksdwarves to the enemy without also releasing their infantry guards. <br />
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'd say you should consult the [[Computing]] and [[Mechanical Logic]] pages then. Should find all the components you need there. <br />
:--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:13, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Doesn't help. That's all about power transfer - gears, axels, waterwheels... It only uses levers for input, not output - I could connect my controll leaver to a not-gate like [[Mechanical_Logic#NOT_or_BUFFER|this one]], but how do i connect ''that'' to a bridge?<br />
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:17, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Connect that power to a screw pump, that pours water onto a pressure plate. There's an example of such a device on the mechanics page. Take a look as Water/Fluid logic as well (Linked to on the mechanical page) for some other pump-based devices.<br />
:::--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 06:56, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::It's... ''workable'', I suppose. It's much more complex than the bridge system. It might be faster responding, depending on the speed at which a pump works, since there is no 100 step delay like a bridge. It would take a lot more room and mechanisms, not to mention a seperate power source for each one. Remember, each leaver you invert need its own, independent setup.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:09, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::: Check out this page, it might help.. www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:SL/Logic_Gates.<br />
::::[[User:Martinuzz|Martinuzz]] 8:54, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Wrestling&diff=3708340d Talk:Wrestling2008-07-26T23:11:46Z<p>Karpatius: /* Upper arms? */</p>
<hr />
<div>I keep doing to appropriate moves on ant men and rat men limbs, but I never get the opportunity to break them. Is there something I'm doing wrong? --[[User:Patarak]], unsigned<br />
<br />
:A: Antmen and ratmen don't have joints, as I recall<br />
:Oy, whoever made the Wrestling page: Wikis are made in third person. That means no I's, we's, anything personal! --[[User:Jaybud4]], unsigned<br />
<br />
::Usually true, but not always. "I" can refer to the experiences of a single editor, which are occasionally article-worthy, and "we" can refer to the DFwiki community in general.<br />
::We aren't a formal wiki. To quote [[User:Senso|Senso]], the admin:<br />
::"...I'd like to say that this is not a 'professional' wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself...." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Upper arms? ==<br />
<br />
I was exploring a recently abandoned fortress, and I got close enough to see the fights on my announcement menu. One thing that caught my I was "XXX adjusts the grip of their upper arm and the troglodyte's second toe right foot." Is this a glitch or something that hasn't been resolved? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 00:52, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Right now, you can grab any body part with any body part. So grabbing a toe with your upper arm is valid, even if you can't do anything useful like throws or strangleholds with it. It'll probably get changed when wrestling gets overhauled, whenever that may be. -- [[User:Shandrunn|Shandrunn]] 05:36, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Your putting the toe into your armpit in this situation. Not the most elegant hold, but surely effective.--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 19:11, 26 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Pipe_section&diff=4358640d Talk:Pipe section2008-07-23T18:56:13Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Building pipes around the fortress to move water and magma safely ( hopefully ) would open up many new options and designs for players. Magma pipes would also vent invigorating steam occasionally.<br />Also, in my opinion, dwarfs should be able to move through pipe sections, as the pipes will be suspended from the ceiling, dug into the walls or even made into a part of the floor, looking very cool when covered with a grate.<br />The dwarfs also most certainly would really like to see glass pipes from rivers to allow fish to swim around the fort. ( Some would propably enjoy the fish heading to the chasm end of the pipe... )<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 18:11, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Maybe sometime, but not soon. Army arc goes first, then some other things. Blame Toady for not making DF Open Sauce. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:32, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Not blaming him, just voicing my idea and opinion. And I believe Dwarf Fortress wouldn't be quite what it is today if it were open source.--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 14:56, 23 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Pipe_section&diff=4358440d Talk:Pipe section2008-07-20T22:11:52Z<p>Karpatius: Pipe networks</p>
<hr />
<div>Building pipes around the fortress to move water and magma safely ( hopefully ) would open up many new options and designs for players. Magma pipes would also vent invigorating steam occasionally.<br />Also, in my opinion, dwarfs should be able to move through pipe sections, as the pipes will be suspended from the ceiling, dug into the walls or even made into a part of the floor, looking very cool when covered with a grate.<br />The dwarfs also most certainly would really like to see glass pipes from rivers to allow fish to swim around the fort. ( Some would propably enjoy the fish heading to the chasm end of the pipe... )<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 18:11, 20 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42294User:Karpatius2008-07-04T22:00:00Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br /><br />
Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate nature, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, cool breezes for their coolness, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Eat: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius has died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Glass&diff=2833340d Talk:Glass2008-07-04T21:59:09Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>With v 33b, I have successfully made trap components without difficulty, so I've deleted the reference to bars being required. This raises the issue, however, of what damage rating the various sorts of glass get. As far as I can tell, glass doesn't appear in the mat glosses, so I'm not sure how to determine what the actual value is. Anyone have a suggestion? [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:46, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:I can't answer your question of getting the data from the files, but apparently someone has confirmed glass as having 50% damage, so I removed your verify tag and pointed to my source. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 04:31, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Products<br />
:"Raw glass is essentially a low-value gem, a frequent request of dwarves undergoing a strange mood. Given its abundance, raw green glass makes an excellent training material for practicing the gem cutting skill."<br />
::In 33g, I'm having trouble making raw glass show up for cutting in the Jeweler's Workshop. GreyMario on #bay12games @ WorldIRC.net suggests that raw glass is not able to be cut to train the gem cutting skill. If it is possible to cut raw glass, is there something special that needs to be done, or some reason why it wouldn't show up in the screen? If it isn't possible, the above line needs to be removed from Products. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:19, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I believe there currently is a bug where raw and cut clear and crystal glass does not shop up on the jeweler's workshop screen. You can get around it with the manager. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 00:30, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Confirmed (33g). The manager can queue glass cutting jobs, which are then processed normally. I will make a note of this in the article. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:37, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
The Raw Glass<br />
:I am having trouble making raw glass i think its some kind of bug but when they go get the sand then they will bring it to the furnace only to stop making it and it will go off my que even if its on repeat, they do how ever use the sand so can my swarfs fail at making raw glass. i have this problem alot with my magma forges and furnaces [[User:Rock n rat|Rock n rat]<br />
::Are you sure they didn't make raw glass and then run out of sand (Check your gem bins)? If you've got Collect Sand and Make Raw Glass both on repeat, when they run out of sand they'll switch to gather sand and when they run out of bags they'll switch to make raw glass. Occasionally they'll cancel one of them, but most of the time they'll just move the active job to the top. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:26, 24 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::And you do have fuel for the furnace, right? Also, other than green glass needs additional materials. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42293User:Karpatius2008-07-04T21:55:06Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br /><br />
Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble and concrete for it's desolate nature, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, cool breezes for their coolness, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Eat: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius had died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42292User:Karpatius2008-07-04T21:53:29Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Designer<br />Accomplished Empath<br /><br />
Paranoia<br />Dabbling Grower<br />Cook<br />Dabbling Comedian<br />Consoler<br />Novice Conversationalist<br />Novice Flatterer<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain for it's calming effect, cool breezes for their coolness, steaks in a bun, dogs for their loyalty and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.<br />
<br /><br /><br />Karpatius cancels Eat: thirsty.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.<br />Karpatius had died of thirst.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Dog&diff=4137240d Talk:Dog2008-07-04T21:45:59Z<p>Karpatius: /* Hunting dogs */</p>
<hr />
<div>==War dog==<br />
is it me or can only male dogs become war dogs? i got a bitch that isnt recognized as trainable to war dog status... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:25, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Not at all. She's probably someone's pet already. Pet's can't be trained. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 13:42 27 November 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
Is it just for me, or are war dogs completely useless other than cannon fodder when restrained? When I assign them to dwarves they seem somewhat useful as they swarm the enemy. However, when I chain a line of 4-6 dogs at a choke point, 3+ goblins just plow through them unscathed and it seems like the dogs are trying to run from them rather than attack. [[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]]<br />
:Chained war dogs are very useful to deter theify kobolds and snatchy goblins. These units ignore traps and stealth everywhere, but dogs chained near the fort entrance will eat them immediately.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Hunting dogs ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering what are the advantages of hunting dogs as opposed to war dogs. As far as i can tell the only one is that theyre weaker. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 17:53, 30 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:"It sounds like Hunting dogs behave as if 'harass animals' was set to 'yes.'" --[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]], from the old wiki. Also, see [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000334 this thread], in which Toady says what exactly hunting and war dogs do in the 2D version.<br />
:In short, war dogs do double damage and hunting dogs are useless. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:31, 30 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Useless? Doesn't the increased detection range count for anything, like guard duty? ( Ironic that war dogs spot enemies slower... )--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:45, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Annoying problem with training dogs ==<br />
<br />
I have tons of puppies, set to "Unavaliable", yet I never get any non-pet dogs to train. Is there any way to disable pets? This is getting ridiculous now. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:46, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== The Life of a dog ==<br />
<br />
A dog amazingly took down a troll by itself and now is dying from injuries. They don't heal right? Oh yeah it was a war dog.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 06:14, 3 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Soaper&diff=4248740d Talk:Soaper2008-06-10T08:06:58Z<p>Karpatius: Soap as a building material</p>
<hr />
<div>I once saw soap as a building material for a workshop. Not sure if it works like wood or stone. I guess dwarfs like good-smelling workshops.<br />Still, any rain ( if the building is outside ) would wash it away.<br />Maybe make that a new game goal: Clean City, made of soap as much as possible.<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:06, 10 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Sparring&diff=4123740d Talk:Sparring2008-06-09T08:34:44Z<p>Karpatius: /* Miners using Mining skill */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Miners using Mining skill ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in <u>Miner</u> rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat.<br />Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate.<br />So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor...<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Tower-cap&diff=2518340d Talk:Tower-cap2008-06-09T08:30:24Z<p>Karpatius: /* Natural vs carved-out ponds */</p>
<hr />
<div>this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...<br />
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.<br />
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
You have a GirlFriend?--[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 13:07, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==<br />
<br />
Is it essential that the pond is already there?<br><br />
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...?<br><br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.<br />
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles.<br>But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods.<br><br />
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Cost of wood? What? It's 3☼ each! And why are tree farms needed if I don't have trees? I build in a desert. No trees there, and I have about a hundred unused wood. Granted, I haven't started the clear glass industry or the siege industry, but wood is only needed for beds, clear/crystal glass, and siege engine parts. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Personally I always choose to live near a forest, but it's quite acceptable to buy wood from traders. Though you may run into dry-spells if the caravans don't come for a year. I'd recommend having at least 100 logs at any time. Just in case you need to build lots of beds. You can build most other things from stone instead. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:13, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I presume you're living next to a volcano in that desert, since 3 metal bars per bin or barrel is 4 bars more than I'm willing to use, and 3 bars plus fuel is just nuts. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:03, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Aye. Why live in a desert if not for massive glass industries?<br />
:::::Oh, and I don't make bins or barrels with anything &ndash; they aren't needed and are in fact annoying if you have OCD management. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Hm.. I suppose that would work if you don't make Dwarven syrup... --[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I don't &ndash; I find it as cheaty as boozecooking, which is easier, and almost identical to boozecooking. However, I do boozecook, which does use a lot of barrels for alcohol. If you buy barreled stuff from caravans and ask for it in the trade agreement, you can easily get a lot of barrels.<br />
:::::::Worst case, you'll use up all your barrels. Then, all you have to do is put more labor sooner into cooking the stuff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Was just saying, that some might complain about it.<br />I myself seem to never have enough barrels for alcohol after I get a population over 30. I just like to have an "emergency" warehouse of booze, which takes barrels upon barrels... And syrup is always handy to have around.<br />Also, in my personal opinion, all space-saving is good.<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Finished_goods&diff=2895940d:Finished goods2008-06-09T08:22:34Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Finished Goods''' are a number of products produced mostly by [[craftsdwarfs]] and the like, such as [[leatherworkers]], [[clothiers]], [[stonecrafters]], ect.. These items are [[crafts]], [[instruments]], [[mugs]], [[toys]], and [[clothes]] (note: this is not a complete list).<br />
<br />
Finished goods are typically useful as [[export]] items. However, clothes are important for your dwarves after the second year, when the clothes they brought with them have been quite worn out.<br />
<br />
All finished goods go into a finished goods [[stockpile]].<br />
<br />
Should you have a [[Bin]] available, the goods will be stacked into the Bin, if the stockpile settings allow Bins to be used. When Finished Goods are in a Bin, the Bin can easily be moved to a trade depot instead of individual items, making hauling goods far faster and more efficient.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42291User:Karpatius2008-06-04T07:59:44Z<p>Karpatius: Minor corrections</p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Design<br />Accomplished Empathy<br /><br />
Dabbling Paranoia<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble, palm, oak, pine and cocoa trees, rain, cool breeze, steaks in a bun, dogs and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding. He works hard to help other people. He detests good weather.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42290User:Karpatius2008-06-04T07:56:18Z<p>Karpatius: Further layout</p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Design<br />Accomplished Empathy<br /><br />
Dabbling Paranoia<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble, palm, oak and cocoa trees, rain, cool, steaks in a bun, dogs and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42289User:Karpatius2008-06-04T07:55:37Z<p>Karpatius: Layout editing</p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Design<br />Accomplished<br />Empathy<br />
Dabbling Paranoia<br /><br />Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br /><br />Karpatius likes granite, marble, palm, oak and cocoa trees, rain, cool, steaks in a bun, dogs and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br /><br />He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42288User:Karpatius2008-06-04T07:54:06Z<p>Karpatius: New profile</p>
<hr />
<div>Karpatius, The Otherwordly Hitchikers<br />
<br />
Competent Fortress Design<br />
Accomplished Empathy<br />
Dabbling Paranoia<br />
<br />
Karpatius has been happy lately. He read a fine book lately. He dined in a meager restaurant lately. He dined in a fine restaurant lately. He has had mixed feelings at work lately. He has grumbled at the good weather lately. He is eagerly anticipating a new game. He has had a fine round of Magic the Gathering lately. He has been very stressed about finding a job a while ago.<br />
<br />
Karpatius likes granite, marble, palm, oak and cocoa trees, rain, cool, steaks in a bun, dogs and the colors blue and black. He absolutely detests alcohol.<br />
<br />
He is satisfied with the simple things in life. He prefers stability and security to ambiguity and disorder. He can be a worrywart. He doesn't stress easily. He appreciates arts and crafts and nature in general. He likes to try new things. He is slightly paranoid. He is somewhat impatient. He does not like to work too late into the evening. He is honest and empathic in dealings with others. He finds helping others rewarding.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Tower-cap&diff=2517040d Talk:Tower-cap2008-06-04T06:47:38Z<p>Karpatius: /* Natural vs carved-out ponds */</p>
<hr />
<div>this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...<br />
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.<br />
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==<br />
<br />
Is it essential that the pond is already there?<br><br />
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...?<br><br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.<br />
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles.<br />But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods.<br /><br />
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Finished_goods&diff=4232240d Talk:Finished goods2008-06-04T06:23:23Z<p>Karpatius: Typo</p>
<hr />
<div>What about mentioning that Finished Goods can be handily stacked into Bins that can then be used to haul a large amount of goods to the depot in one haul job?<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:21, 4 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Finished_goods&diff=4232140d Talk:Finished goods2008-06-04T06:22:56Z<p>Karpatius: Added a detail</p>
<hr />
<div>What about mentioning that Finished Goods can be handily stacked into Bins that can then be used to haul a large abount of goods to the depot in one haul job?<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:21, 4 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Finished_goods&diff=4232040d Talk:Finished goods2008-06-04T06:21:20Z<p>Karpatius: Cleaned up the layout a little</p>
<hr />
<div>What about mentioning that Finished Goods can be handily stacked into Bins?<br />--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:21, 4 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Finished_goods&diff=4231940d Talk:Finished goods2008-06-04T06:20:14Z<p>Karpatius: New page: What about mentioning that Finished Goods can be handily stacked into Bins? --~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>What about mentioning that Finished Goods can be handily stacked into Bins?<br />
--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=13484Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal2008-06-04T06:16:45Z<p>Karpatius: /* W */</p>
<hr />
<div>Use this discussion page to talk about any issues or ideas you have about the direction of this wiki. The community portal is a hub for directing our conciousness. Read the rules carefully, take them to heart, post here if you have any questions or you think the rules can be improved.<br />
<br />
==Account Problems==<br />
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)<br />
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==AdBlock==<br />
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Rule discussion == <br />
<br />
Z is pretty horrible, but not much point taking it out unless its to replace it with something better. (This whole setup is horrible, but that's irrelevant?) --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 21:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== A ===<br />
<br />
How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.<br />
<br />
:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I like rule A, it introduces the page, please keep it --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 16:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== B and E ===<br />
<br />
How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me<br />
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
:The be bold rule makes it's dramatic return! Victory! [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Serious Rules ===<br />
<br />
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.<br />
<br />
::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.<br />
<br />
:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::While I agree with some of your points, I'd like to say that this is not a "professional" wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself. If you want to create a Whole Complex and Indexed Body of Rules About Everything, go for it and as [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] said, editors should be able to choose between the two. I just don't see the need. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== Ack! The ToC! The ToC with a "1.26"! ===<br />
<br />
...why do we need section headers for each of the rules? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 28 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== W ===<br />
<br />
Word-of-mouth: If you hear someone saying something new about the game, don't post it without trying it out yourself. You might have misunderstood something or your friend might have expressed him/herself wrongly.<br><br />
Something like that.--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 10:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That goes in the "Rule discussion" section. *ka-move* Also, remember to not put blank lines in a comment by a single user.</offtopic><br />
:I don't like the rule. It discourages participation in the wiki. If they add something of questionable merit, they're supposed to use the verify template, as stated in rule V. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:39, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Will remember that in the future.<br />
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:16, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==<br />
<br />
Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
How about this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]<br />
<br />
It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Redirects and article titles ==<br />
<br />
How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Tutorials ==<br />
<br />
New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:[[Your first fortress]] will do just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT) <!-- changed GS to YFF on 2 June 2008 --><br />
<br />
== Categories ==<br />
<br />
I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.<br />
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Deletion ==<br />
<br />
We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Water level style ==<br />
<br />
I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Templates? ==<br />
<br />
Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Forum references ==<br />
<br />
Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Crops categories ==<br />
<br />
My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.<br />
<br />
Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Wealth page... ==<br />
<br />
I've been looking for tips on building fortress wealth, and haven't really been able to find anything. Can someone who knows something about it start a [[Wealth]] page? I know that mining out areas, making things, and artifacts contribute to wealth, but that's all I know. How much does mining a square contribute? Are there other ways to build wealth? Do mined out areas have to be populated, or can I go mine away a random hill and have it count? What are the best things to make to increase value? Do items have to be placed, or just made? and so on... --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Formatting standards ==<br />
<br />
=== Category tags ===<br />
<br />
On this wiki, the standard for capitalization in category tags is <tt><nowiki>[[Category:Stub]]</nowiki></tt>. I asked what it should be, and nobody answered for two and a half months, so I feel entitled to decide it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Headers ===<br />
<br />
At the current time, the standard for a header is <code>=== Headers ===</code>. <code>===Headers===</code> is slightly easier to type, is typed more often by newbies, and works just as well, but has less white space. Input?<br>--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I like <code>=== Header ===</code> better, because it's easier to read, and the extra whitespace helps call your attention to the name of the section, whereas you might glance over it as an "unrecognized token" if you didn't manage to filter out the immediately surrounding markup. I think the 2 bytes saved on whitespace is negligible and I certainly don't mind correcting them when I find 'em, if necessary. A similar question (if it's not been asked) would be whether or not to include a newline in between a heading and its text. I think for big sections of text, an extra line looks nice, but for multiple, smaller, less important sections, it's easier to manage the headings if there's no blank line separating them from the section they head. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 14:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I always put a blank line above and below a header (unless it's the first line in the page), except in rare situations, like the current List of Twenty-Six Rules. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Talk pages ===<br />
<br />
The current standard seems to be to never put a blank line in a comment by a single users, except in highly lengthy comments, and to always put exactly one blank line between comments by different users, because that's what I say in [[Template:Newbie]], but is that correct? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=13483Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal2008-06-04T06:15:32Z<p>Karpatius: /* W */</p>
<hr />
<div>Use this discussion page to talk about any issues or ideas you have about the direction of this wiki. The community portal is a hub for directing our conciousness. Read the rules carefully, take them to heart, post here if you have any questions or you think the rules can be improved.<br />
<br />
==Account Problems==<br />
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)<br />
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==AdBlock==<br />
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Rule discussion == <br />
<br />
Z is pretty horrible, but not much point taking it out unless its to replace it with something better. (This whole setup is horrible, but that's irrelevant?) --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 21:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== A ===<br />
<br />
How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.<br />
<br />
:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I like rule A, it introduces the page, please keep it --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 16:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== B and E ===<br />
<br />
How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me<br />
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
:The be bold rule makes it's dramatic return! Victory! [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Serious Rules ===<br />
<br />
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.<br />
<br />
::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.<br />
<br />
:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::While I agree with some of your points, I'd like to say that this is not a "professional" wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself. If you want to create a Whole Complex and Indexed Body of Rules About Everything, go for it and as [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] said, editors should be able to choose between the two. I just don't see the need. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== Ack! The ToC! The ToC with a "1.26"! ===<br />
<br />
...why do we need section headers for each of the rules? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 28 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== W ===<br />
<br />
Word-of-mouth: If you hear someone saying something new about the game, don't post it without trying it out yourself. You might have misunderstood something or your friend might have expressed him/herself wrongly.<br><br />
Something like that.--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 10:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That goes in the "Rule discussion" section. *ka-move* Also, remember to not put blank lines in a comment by a single user.</offtopic><br />
:I don't like the rule. It discourages participation in the wiki. If they add something of questionable merit, they're supposed to use the verify template, as stated in rule V. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:39, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Will remember that in the future.<br />
:--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:15, 4 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==<br />
<br />
Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
How about this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]<br />
<br />
It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Redirects and article titles ==<br />
<br />
How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Tutorials ==<br />
<br />
New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:[[Your first fortress]] will do just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT) <!-- changed GS to YFF on 2 June 2008 --><br />
<br />
== Categories ==<br />
<br />
I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.<br />
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Deletion ==<br />
<br />
We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Water level style ==<br />
<br />
I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Templates? ==<br />
<br />
Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Forum references ==<br />
<br />
Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Crops categories ==<br />
<br />
My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.<br />
<br />
Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Wealth page... ==<br />
<br />
I've been looking for tips on building fortress wealth, and haven't really been able to find anything. Can someone who knows something about it start a [[Wealth]] page? I know that mining out areas, making things, and artifacts contribute to wealth, but that's all I know. How much does mining a square contribute? Are there other ways to build wealth? Do mined out areas have to be populated, or can I go mine away a random hill and have it count? What are the best things to make to increase value? Do items have to be placed, or just made? and so on... --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Formatting standards ==<br />
<br />
=== Category tags ===<br />
<br />
On this wiki, the standard for capitalization in category tags is <tt><nowiki>[[Category:Stub]]</nowiki></tt>. I asked what it should be, and nobody answered for two and a half months, so I feel entitled to decide it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Headers ===<br />
<br />
At the current time, the standard for a header is <code>=== Headers ===</code>. <code>===Headers===</code> is slightly easier to type, is typed more often by newbies, and works just as well, but has less white space. Input?<br>--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I like <code>=== Header ===</code> better, because it's easier to read, and the extra whitespace helps call your attention to the name of the section, whereas you might glance over it as an "unrecognized token" if you didn't manage to filter out the immediately surrounding markup. I think the 2 bytes saved on whitespace is negligible and I certainly don't mind correcting them when I find 'em, if necessary. A similar question (if it's not been asked) would be whether or not to include a newline in between a heading and its text. I think for big sections of text, an extra line looks nice, but for multiple, smaller, less important sections, it's easier to manage the headings if there's no blank line separating them from the section they head. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 14:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I always put a blank line above and below a header (unless it's the first line in the page), except in rare situations, like the current List of Twenty-Six Rules. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Talk pages ===<br />
<br />
The current standard seems to be to never put a blank line in a comment by a single users, except in highly lengthy comments, and to always put exactly one blank line between comments by different users, because that's what I say in [[Template:Newbie]], but is that correct? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=13481Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal2008-06-03T14:33:06Z<p>Karpatius: Community Portal: W</p>
<hr />
<div>Use this discussion page to talk about any issues or ideas you have about the direction of this wiki. The community portal is a hub for directing our conciousness. Read the rules carefully, take them to heart, post here if you have any questions or you think the rules can be improved.<br />
<br />
==Account Problems==<br />
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)<br />
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==AdBlock==<br />
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Rule discussion == <br />
<br />
Z is pretty horrible, but not much point taking it out unless its to replace it with something better. (This whole setup is horrible, but that's irrelevant?) --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 21:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== A ===<br />
<br />
How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.<br />
<br />
:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I like rule A, it introduces the page, please keep it --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 16:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== B and E ===<br />
<br />
How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me<br />
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
:The be bold rule makes it's dramatic return! Victory! [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Serious Rules ===<br />
<br />
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.<br />
<br />
::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.<br />
<br />
:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::While I agree with some of your points, I'd like to say that this is not a "professional" wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself. If you want to create a Whole Complex and Indexed Body of Rules About Everything, go for it and as [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] said, editors should be able to choose between the two. I just don't see the need. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=== Ack! The ToC! The ToC with a "1.26"! ===<br />
<br />
...why do we need section headers for each of the rules? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 28 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==<br />
<br />
Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]<br />
<br />
::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
How about this?<br />
<br />
[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]<br />
<br />
It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Redirects and article titles ==<br />
<br />
How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Tutorials ==<br />
<br />
New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:[[Your first fortress]] will do just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT) <!-- changed GS to YFF on 2 June 2008 --><br />
<br />
== Categories ==<br />
<br />
I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.<br />
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Deletion ==<br />
<br />
We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Water level style ==<br />
<br />
I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Templates? ==<br />
<br />
Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Forum references ==<br />
<br />
Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Crops categories ==<br />
<br />
My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.<br />
<br />
Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Wealth page... ==<br />
<br />
I've been looking for tips on building fortress wealth, and haven't really been able to find anything. Can someone who knows something about it start a [[Wealth]] page? I know that mining out areas, making things, and artifacts contribute to wealth, but that's all I know. How much does mining a square contribute? Are there other ways to build wealth? Do mined out areas have to be populated, or can I go mine away a random hill and have it count? What are the best things to make to increase value? Do items have to be placed, or just made? and so on... --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Formatting standards ==<br />
<br />
=== Category tags ===<br />
<br />
On this wiki, the standard for capitalization in category tags is <tt><nowiki>[[Category:Stub]]</nowiki></tt>. I asked what it should be, and nobody answered for two and a half months, so I feel entitled to decide it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Headers ===<br />
<br />
At the current time, the standard for a header is <code>=== Headers ===</code>. <code>===Headers===</code> is slightly easier to type, is typed more often by newbies, and works just as well, but has less white space. Input?<br>--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I like <code>=== Header ===</code> better, because it's easier to read, and the extra whitespace helps call your attention to the name of the section, whereas you might glance over it as an "unrecognized token" if you didn't manage to filter out the immediately surrounding markup. I think the 2 bytes saved on whitespace is negligible and I certainly don't mind correcting them when I find 'em, if necessary. A similar question (if it's not been asked) would be whether or not to include a newline in between a heading and its text. I think for big sections of text, an extra line looks nice, but for multiple, smaller, less important sections, it's easier to manage the headings if there's no blank line separating them from the section they head. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 14:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I always put a blank line above and below a header (unless it's the first line in the page), except in rare situations, like the current List of Twenty-Six Rules. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=== Talk pages ===<br />
<br />
The current standard seems to be to never put a blank line in a comment by a single users, except in highly lengthy comments, and to always put exactly one blank line between comments by different users. That's what I say in [[Template:Newbie]], but is that correct? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Community Portal: W ==<br />
<br />
Word-of-mouth: If you hear someone saying something new about the game, don't post it without trying it out yourself. You might have misunderstood something or your friend might have expressed him/herself wrongly.<br />
<br />
Something like that.--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 10:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42287User:Karpatius2008-06-03T10:09:07Z<p>Karpatius: </p>
<hr />
<div>An eager finnish Dwarf Fortress fan.<br />
<br />
<br />
Comes along very well with all kinds of dwarven people, even though his refusal to drink any alcohol baffles all dwarfs.<br />
Starts the game with Competent Fortress Design, Accomplished Empathy and Dabbling Paranoid skills.</div>Karpatiushttps://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Karpatius&diff=42286User:Karpatius2008-06-03T10:03:50Z<p>Karpatius: New page: An eager finnish Dwarf Fortress fan.</p>
<hr />
<div>An eager finnish Dwarf Fortress fan.</div>Karpatius