Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Screw pump

2009-08-15T17:30:10Z

Jaaz: Diagonal flow note ~~~~

{{archive|
#[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]
#[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]
}}

== Archiving ==

See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.
Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==
As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

You'd also cut how to set up water wheels & connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

== Pumping Magma? ==

Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

:Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Upon further testing, it seems that wooden magma pumps can work, but only for so long. As soon as the magma reaches a certain height, it burns up the wood and pushes the burn-proof block out of the way. I just lost about 10 worker dwarves in a accident trying to create an above ground lava cistern for my glass fortress, as soon as it reached an average level of about 5, the pump gave way. Between those deaths and the ones from the recent goblin ambush, I fear my fortress will devolve into madness and tantrums any day now. ADDENDUM: I would also like to add that the magma has just ''burned a hole through 2 z-levels of sand'' and is now flooding my workshops. It seems that the red liquid deserves a lot more respect and caution in the latest release. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]]

== Self powered pumps ==

So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Wait, the stacked pumps transmit power upwards ''through themselves''? I didn't realise that - if it's true, then the whole L-shaped tunnels section is unrequired and should probably be removed. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:05, 6 November 2008 (EST)

: I've been playing around with this for the last week or so. I completely missed the bit where you need to have a channel underneath the front end of the pump in order for power to transmit (you put the channel under the front end so that the pump blocks the water). You can also draw water from a stairway or into a stairway. And since water pressure will push water up z-levels, you don't actually need to stack your pumps. In other words:

0-lvl all others levels
~www~ ..... www a waterwheel
..|.. ..... | pumps from
.#V#. .###. v the north
.#X#. .#X#. X into up/down stairway
.###. .###. # surrounded by walls
..... .....

That should work for a substantial height. Sadly, my current river is filled with carp, so I won't be able to find out for a while. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Pumps only push fluids up to their height. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Front vs rear ==

Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?

Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word "front", as my perception is that the "front" of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Alternate vs. other ==

Alternate generally means "in turn" or "in place of" -- not "as an alternative".[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But "alternative" can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend "other uses" here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I support other! [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:09, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Pump + Stairs = Win? ==

Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?

Side View Top Views Key
###### ######
#v->__ #v->^# -> or <- : Direction of pump
#^<-v# ###### v : down stairs
#v->^# #^<-v# ^ : up stairs
#^<-v# ###### # : Wall
____^# _ : space

I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== /fail at pump stacking. ==

I'm trying to construct a pump stack as shown in figure 2, which says 'notice how the front of the pump doesn't need a floor'. If I have open space there, it says it's blocked, 'needs ground or near machine'. I can't build the bottom one to go up. So I tried the top down; same problem. To (badly) diagram it vertically; (_= floor, .= space, %=front of pump over space, @=pump on solid floor)<BR>

.@@_ <- Pumps from left to right onto solid floor
_@%. <- right to left.
.%@_ <- left to right.
wmwm <-water

I can't build any of the pumps if either of their Xs are sitting over an open space. If I build a gear, it won't let me build on top of it. The diagram doesn't seem to show a need for gears, anyway, which is what I was trying to do. Just for laughs, I closed off one of the two holes on the bottom, built the pump and had someone pump it. It quickly (Almost immediately) filled the room with 1/7 water, so I got that right... how do I build the next level up so it connects to the one below, then the one on the surface that will begin the perpetual motion through the attached waterwheel? Trying to give the ungrateful little buggers a waterfall in the statue garden...--[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 01:41, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Ok, I now got the whole stack built...for some reason, it wouldn't let me when I tried it previously, but now I have it going... but they don't seem to all operate when one is manually pumped to prime. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:12, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Or when temporarily powered with a windmill. As soon as the gear and axle gets wet, it stops working. With three guys pumping, the waterfall runs for a little bit, half flooding the statue garden. :-p Why are they not connecting to power each other vertically?

You need to put the power-transfer hole under the output end of the pump. The impassable part will prevent backflow. Also, from your diagram it looks like the top pump isn't getting a power hole while the bottom onw is. Thta should be reversed. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:35, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:Aargh. I tore the whole thing down, built floors over everything, then very, very carefully figured out where I needed holes. I removed the floors so that the dark green Xs were over the open spaces above the light green Xs of the pump below, and still nothing. I gave up on the water wheel idea because I didn't have enough vertical space to channel beneath it, so I set up a windmill on a roof on top of built walls above the top pump, very carefully making sure to leave space above the dark green X on the pump... and STILL nothing. -- Hm. Just went to tear down the windmill and it says 'has 20 power, need 30'. (Spends two hours fiddling around adding walls in the wrong place, tearing them down, rebuilding them, convincing a bunch of doofuses to move the mechanism that is there to make a gear out of the way of the axle) Success! Finally got it... was a lack of power. One dwarf is capable of running one pump (until he nearly drowns himself. :p) but apparently they don't run each other in that configuration. That's what was foozling me. And yes, I screwed up on what I diagrammed above...which was part of the problem. The diagram was accurate to what I'd built...(Edited to add what I forgot: Thanks for the help, Bilkinson. :D) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:51, 1 December 2008 (EST)

== Pump Rate ==

Does anyone have a good estimate of the pump rate? It doesn't have to be accurate 7ths of a tile per step, but maybe enough to say "if you're building a waterfall that is x tiles across, and the fall is fed from a reservoir of y tiles, you need z pumps operating to maintain constant water flow, and z pumps operating to keep the upper reservoir full" or something...
--[[User:Yidda|Yidda]] 00:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

== Water Purifying / Desalting ==
Can someone better explain how exactly one must dig/build a water purifier to turn salt water into drinkable water? My last 3 tries have failed miserably...[[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 03:36, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I just built an entire zone out of wood and stone, it stands free of all walls. I dug a chasm out for the entire thing, I even built the floor of the screw pump out of wood floor just to be safe. The moment I turned that pump on it was salt water (double ~) so I don't know how old this information is but unless I'm missing something you cannot de-salt water with a screw pump [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 09:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I figured it out. I added a video to make sure there is no confusion on how to do this for newbies. [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 00:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

== "Natural" walls and floors ==

''Salt water pumped through a pump will become drinkable if then kept separate from natural walls, natural floors, other salt water or an aquifer.''

I dug out a reservoir, pumped some water into it, and put a well on top of it. The dwarves drank from the well. I didn't build the reservoir's walls or floor. I just dug them out. I didn't even smooth them down. They are natural.

What is meant by "natural" walls and floors?[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 02:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

:Afaik, exactly what you have described. Did you have any "salt" water anywhere? (You didn't mention it, so I have to ask.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== Water Containment ==

The uses of pumps to contain water pressure have been discussed extensively, but what about using pumps to transmit mechanical power into an area without allowing water to flow out at all?

Axles run into both sides of the pump. The impassible square of the pump prevents water flowing from the right (submerged) to the left (unsubmerged), while the pump transmits power from one axle to the other. I know this is a simple concept, but it took me a while to think of it - and when most of this system has to be submerged in pressurized water, it's rather nice to be able to block water entirely, and I think the concept merits a section on the page (whether it works or not, actually).

('#'=stone wall, '='=dry axle, '-'=submerged axle, '%%'=pump, pumping from the left to the right (so active, but accomplishing nothing because the left is entirely dry))

########
===%%---
########

I'm setting up for a test run; I'll report results shortly, I hope.
--[[User:Cowmage|Cowmage]] 17:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
:This does work, even under significant pressure. I'll add it to the 'alternate uses' section. --[[User:Cowmage|Cowmage]] 22:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

==No Flow to Diagonals==

Due to space constrains, I tried pulling off this scenario:

.####
#%%=#
#####

('#'=stone, '.'=level land, '='=floor bars over channel, '%'=pump from right to left)

The the pump would not output to the diagonal level land, so I had to modify my plans somewhat. Should this be noted somewhere? [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]] 17:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Elf

2009-08-12T05:12:32Z

Jaaz: Asking if images of a <wooden> object done in a <non-wooden> material count as wood to the elves. ~~~~

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly. I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

::: I've had it happen to me as well, heck, half my map is haunted and frozen year round. Oddly vermin, bats and squirrels and such, make it through fine. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I have had a super agile mace-elf (from a goblin ambush) pass three rows of noquality weapon traps; he then proceeded to ''slaughter'' my chained dogs, black bear, alligator, jaguar and monkeys almost unscratched (his upper body was merely 'tired'). Either the animals are particularly weak, or they failed to attack the invader. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]</small>

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)

== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason. Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼». (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...) I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace. I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk. I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Elven in-laws? ==

Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!

== At War with Elves ==

I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter). Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:

*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message. So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.

*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above). You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.

*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not. So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name. Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name. I found this confusing, actually. Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.

*How can you start a war with Elves? Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?

*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees? I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.

*Is there a way to establish peace with elves? What is necessary to do so? (do you need to have the king?)

*Anything else about being at war with elves?

If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.

: They don't like cutting down undead trees. Undead logs are of course not tradable. [[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 11:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

== Elven Age ==

It also may be worth mentioning that elves do NOT die from age, due to the lack of [MAXAGE:] tag in their raw, haven't tested in game but it seems more than likely the absence of the tag would cause such an effect. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Trading ==
My elves stopped bringing, well, anything except cloth. the first 2,3 caravans brought all the nice things like animals, plants, weapons, logs, but not any more.

Why?
possible reasons:
*I have butchered some of the animals they sold.
*I might have mostly sold goblin stuff to 1 or 2 caravans (which does not count as export?), but this shouldn't affect their profits ,right?
*I have rather large log stores (40-80) (but have always agreed and kept to the lowest chopping limits) This probably explains why few/no logs are brought, but not the rest?
*I once accidently offered wooden items for trade, but this didn't even make them leave instantly but just set traders mood low
* diplomacy went well, no elven losses to sieges or ambushes

How can i please them again?

--[[User:Confused|Confused]] 13:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Tree Felling Warning ==

Some more details on the elven tree felling warning (got this today):

Elven diplomat arrives around the same time as the caravan normally appears, with the following request:

"We elves are partial in particular to the trees in the forests
surrounding your lands. Although we are loathe to spare a
single branch to your senseless slaughter, we are willing to ask
that you cap your tree-fells at one hundred until we next meet.
I will try to return next year as I am able."

You are then given the following options:

- We can grant this request. Let's discuss the specifics, though...
- We cannot stop production just because of your quaint sensibilities.

== Elves follow a drunk? ==

[http://grabug.web.nowhere-else.org/web/Drunkelvenleader.PNG Drunk Elf Leader]

==Images of trees a bad thing?==

(28.181.40d) This one has me bewildered. I was doing some batch trading with an elven caravan, not the first that's come by my fortress, only when I go to trade, they get offended and leave. So I scour the list I'd checked, and the talk page here, and have only two theories: 1. Skulls are still appalling (totems were marked to trade), but considering the above's post on bone being ok, I don't see why not. 2. I had a Herring bone ring, spiked with sapphire and having this image on it: "a well-designed '''''image of''''' a '''Birchen''' blowgun '''in Purple spinel'''." None of my dwarves have been assigned to decorate with wood, which is why the sour trade struck me as odd. Now, I've seen this occasionally with decorations where one material will (somehow) be representing an object made out of another material, but would that trigger the elven disgust at trying to sell them wood by way of a string match? [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]] 05:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Tax collector

2009-08-09T23:57:09Z

Jaaz: Updated smallest fortress class on appearance. ~~~~

I never minted a single coin and still got a Tax Collector in about my 5th year - perhaps the trigger is wealth created or exported? --GameHat

:Moved that from the article, Mr Hat. Anyway, I agree. I never minted a coin, and still got the Tax Collector. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:34, 18 November 2007 (EST)

My Tax Collector has a [happy] thought "Was happy to have pleased a noble". The Count has a [happy] thought "Was pleased that the tax collection went smoothly". --[[User:Another|Another]] 13:01, 25 November 2007 (EST)

=Trigger Condition=

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Lowest Values Reported
|-
| Population:
| 13
| [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]
|-
| Fortress Class:
| Town
| [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]]
|-
| Created [[Wealth]]:
| 330,339
| Cap'n Mayday, [[Nist Akath]]
|-
| Exported Wealth:
| 11,560
| [[User:MightyMooquack]]
|-
| Imported Wealth:
| 16,396
| [[User:Gibbonofdoom]]
|}

Captain Mayday on the official forums got a tax collector during his Nist Akath story, as far as i know he doesn't have metal for minting coins his created wealth etc was this:
Imported Wealth: 330339
Exported Wealth: 42119
Actual fortress wealth is at 859403

hope this helps in some way --Bullion

I had a tax collector arrive together with the baron, baroness and hammerer, population of 13 due to bronze colossus encounter. Fortress type is city (it doesn't decrease with population loss) [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 22:38, 2 December 2007 (EST)

I recently got a fort far enough along to get this noble. I certainly had not minted any coins. What seemed to do it was my population passing 100. He arrived, along with the Baron, Consort and Hammerer in a wave that brought my population from the low 90s up to 115.

I think wealth is also required, passing 100 population brought me only the philosopher in said fort. Has anyone got the tax collector without a baron or vice versa? [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 17:57, 5 December 2007 (EST)

I just got my baron, collector, consort and hammerer.
The year is 1064, my population is 100 on the dot (at the note of the arival of the nobles)

I have:
388732 imported wealth
67325 exported wealth
506478 created wealth
4336 weapons
45840 armor and garb
65710 furniture
227955 other objects
74200 architecture
37877 Displayed
50560 held/worn.

-ellipsis (not sure how to fancy up a signature in here)

It seems that having 100 population is a major factor in getting the economy.

I just got the tax collector with a couple of other nobles, its 1054 Mid-Spring.
My pop is 99 now.
Created wealth: 763,020
Imported Wealth: 221,438
Exported Wealth: 21,747

Hope this helps! [[User:Marcsterix]]

I just got a tax collector, hammerer, count (and consort), and philosopher. It is Mid-Spring of 1058. My Created Wealth = 1431886, Exported = 29462, Imported = 388973. Population = 124 after the migration wave that included the nobles (111 before migration wave). [[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:05, 30 January 2008 (EST)

I just got the Tax Collector, Hammerer and Baroness in the year 1056, Mid-Spring
Population: ''89'' Created Wealth: ''398852'' Imported Wealth ''195743'' Exported Wealth: ''16396'' --[[User:Gibbonofdoom|Gibbonofdoom]] 10:21, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Another data point. I just got a tax collector, hammerer, and baroness on 12th Slate, 1055, Mid-Spring. Population: ''142'' Created Wealth: ''747376'' Imported Wealth: ''476282'' Exported Wealth: ''11560'' —[[User:MightyMooquack|MightyMooquack]] 00:39, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

I added a table above. If you've seen a tax collector appear at lower values, please update. (Maybe this should be on the main page?) --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:33, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

I got the Tax Collector, Hammerer, Baron and Baroness Consort at population '''86'''. (But lots of wealth). --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 11:51, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Has anyone seen the Tax Collector arrive separately from the Baron? I think the Baron, Tax Collector, and Hammerer all have the same conditions. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:18, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

=Labors=
What labors will the Tax Collector perform? The first thing my newly-arrived Tax Collector did was "Fill Pond"! Perhaps he's bored because I turned the economy off? -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:"Fill Pond" is a job that any dwarf will do, no matter what labors they have enabled. Other jobs like that are Haul Item to Depot and Pull Lever. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:58, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Ambusher

2009-08-08T20:55:03Z

Jaaz: A note added under sleeping anywhere and dehydration. ~~~~

== Unconscious spotters? ==

The article states that you can be seen by an unconscious creature when standing next to it, yet I always get back into sneak mode as soon as I get an enemy unconscious, and it always has worked, as did passing right next to an unconscious creature. Never got a chance to gouge out eyes in the new version, but in the old DF, I could start sneaking very close to a cyclops, about three tiles, maybe two, which is more than close enough for him to normally see you and prevent you from sneaking. I'd like someone to confirm this, but I'm fairly certain the part about unconscious creatures is false. --[[User:Ryke Masters|Ryke Masters]] 20:45, 2 December 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that statement is false. I'll remove it in a day unless anyone thinks it true. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:55, 3 December 2007 (EST)

The "hunting" skill link redirects to this page, which is kind of useless. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:49, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: Well, there is no hunting skill, and hunters all use Ambushing. I figure there ought to be some sort of "activity" page that describes how to hunt, equipment, products, risks, etc - where should that be, though? Not here, although there should probably be a link from here to it. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 14:23, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== ` ==

Well, my hunters keep catching things then my butcher won't do anything with it.

if I am chasing a "foo" what is the sequence to follow to get from:
1 hunter
1 foo
1 Butcher's shop
1 butcher
1 kitchen

to "food"?
TIA
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:06, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Provided the hunter is bringing the corpses back to camp (does one need a refuse pile for this? I forget), then the butcher should automatically butcher it, turning it into meat, bones, a skin, a skull, fat, and "chunks", which are inedible. Fat can be rendered into [[tallow]] in the kitchen, which can then be cooked into a meal. (Mmm, horse tallow roast.) Meat can be eaten raw, so you don't need to cook it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:46, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::From what I have noticed they will bring the kill straight to the butchers shop but if they drop it to drink or whatnot you can {{k|p}} lace a {{k|r}}efuse pile under the corpse and the butcher will go out and get it. Or you could chain pile it to a refuse pile right next to your butcher shop if you have extra hands about. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:54, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Lack of prey ==

is there something I can do to get more work for my hunters? I have started drafting them all to the millitary becuase they already have armour and a bow when they turn up! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:30, 30 January 2008 (EST)

:Well, if you have few/no spawning animals on your map, then making them marksdwarves is by far the best option, as the only alternative really, is training them in a new profession. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:05, 30 January 2008 (EST)

== go get him ==
Nothing more fun than watching your unarmed hunter chase and wrestle a groundhog to death *laugh*. *note to self: when making a hunter always check for weapon preference* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:00, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I'm seeing the same thing. Although, in my case, all three of my hunters were set up with crossbows and quivers. Initially, they ran out of bolts. No worries except that now, although their weapon choice is set to crossbow, they won't pick one up. I've tried changing their jobs, changing their military status, and none of it makes a difference as best I can tell. Now, they don't even pick up the crossbow or quiver, let alone ammo.
:And, in my case, it's beating up Elks and Muskoxes... tough dwarves. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:09, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
:Personally, I liked seeing my hammer-equiped hunter whacking horses and other large animals so hard they go flying through the air :) [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]]

== Exhausted animal supply ==
Through my use of several hunters on round-the-clock 'killing everything in sight' duty It appears that no more animals spawn on my map. I really wish I could hunt some gorilla for a more balanced dwarf diet aside from dogmeat. --[[User:Jemulov|Jemulov]] 13:41, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== How many bolts? ==

On this page it says that immigrating hunters arrive with a stack of 30 steel bolts. However, I've got a stack of 34 lying right here, which means they bring more, though I think the stack is partly used.

It's been a while since I've had a hunter or marksdwarf arrive; can anyone check how large a stack they each bring (and is it the same for both)?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:28, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:Okay, 36 for a hunter. Might be more for a marksdwarf.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:46, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:38 for another hunter. So I'll call it 30 to 40, pending further information.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== Hunting Labor and sleeping prefs ==

I was lucky enough to land a fortress with absolutely no huntable animals, as a result I took the opportunity to give my dwarves all leather armor and enable hunting for them, this turned out rather splendidly for the next siege, but as a long term plan, seems to run into the issue that when hunting is enabled dwarves seem to have nothing against sleeping wherever they wish, causing negative thoughts... this isn't specifically tied to the Ambusher skill, it is a side effect of the hunting labor, so I'm wondering if anyone would care to bring in Hunting as its own category, or if someone simply wanted to append that information to the Ambusher article.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:40, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:===And Dehydration!===
:In addition to the sleeping anywhere and getting cranky because of it, I just had one of my hunters land in my barracks and pass out - with the dehydrated status. My current fort involves a lot of obsidian/mudstone on the surface, a river, and scant murky pools out where undead are constantly spawning. Does the scarcity of the water on the surface mean that the hunter won't even think about going to known water sources when they're thirsty? I think the hunting labor code needs to be altered slightly to consider beneficial actions for the dwarf doing the hunting. Reroute to do these actions between combats: Restock ammunition when depleted; Drink when thirsty; Eat when hungry. As far as I can tell, the hunting labor takes over the pathing of a dwarf without considering the dwarf, and in my poor hunters case, much to his detriment. [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]] 20:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Equipment ==

I'm confused, I know if you start a fortress with an ambusher as one of your dwarves, he gets a crossbow, some bolts, and leather armor. But what happens if you assign some random dwarf to it? Will he pick up a crossbow and leather armor? I just want to know if I'm wasting my time making him equipment he might not use --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Alright I just checked, they will use whatever weapon/armor you set in the military menu. Gonna add that to the main page. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
: Verified --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 04:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Cat

2009-03-13T07:53:52Z

Jaaz: /* Virgin birth? */ new section

== Bones, etc. count ==

Wile butchering cats I always got stacks of 3 bones... Anyone, check this, please. --[[User:Dorten]]

:Cats are size 3 in the raws so 3 stacks of bones would make sense to me. Maybe they are taking the numbers from kittens, likewise you probably get 3 meat. Can someone confirm this, I don't trust my reading of the raws. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:00, 25 January 2008 (EST)

::Bone#=Size --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:58, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

== Disable Cats? ==

I'm getting annoyed with all these cats, is there a way to delete them? Maybe removing their creature details? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

== Too injured? ==

Right after the last siege, I've had a sudden surge of odd announcements along the lines of "Tame Cat Algazud Knogger cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too Injured". Several cats exhibit this behavior, none of them actually wounded in any way I can tell. Anyone else seen this? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:51, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
:I'm guessing that the vermin the cat just killed and wants to move to the stockpile is what's tripping the injured message. I'm seeing it I think every time a cat kills a vermin. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::Ah, well it's still happening. I took a look through the bug list and someone has listed it under "Announcement spamming". No response yet from The Toady One as best I could tell. It's annoying, but I already have to deal with a lot of spurious cancellation messages, so it's liveable. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:00, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:::See [[Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured]]. The cat needs something to grasp with, apparently; either you make a type of grasping mouth and call it CAT_MOUTH, and assign it to CAT, or just change the CAT raws from [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH] to [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:UPPERBODY_PINCERS]. See what he did there? Version .40d. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 03:24, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Indeed... whoever wrote that FAQ entry must have been a very wise and knowledgable person. Truly a paragon among men. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:00, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::It is only right that we should link there from here and let his teachings be known more widely. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:49, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Added to the page. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:34, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

== Closed door method of impounding cats ==

Recently, a method was posted to isolate cats by means of tightly-closed doors, luring the owner there by drafting, and then letting him leave while the cat is stymied. I haven't had means to test this exact method, but I do know that cats and other pets will eventually get out of the tightly closed doors if there's ever another Dwarf that will walk through. My experience is that cats especially will just sit by the door with a question mark, waiting for someone to open it so they can slip out (just like real cats!). Similarly, I've seen accounts of people on the board who've noticed peculiarly sneaky muskoxen using the same tactic to get into fortresses. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:In addition, wouldn't this method just cause the pathfinding algorithm to continually execute for the cat, slowing down the FPS anyway? Also this could be moved to the 'catsplosion' page, rather than being here... --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 20:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::All animals will pile up at tightly closed doors because they path like dwarves, so they don't understand the door won't open for them. This should kill your FPS because they are queuing the pathfinding algorithm repeatedly. Now, if you really want to control the cat problem with tightly closed doors, build a Upright Spike trap right next to the door with a lever on the other side. When the cats pile up, have someone go pull the lever. (Works best with 2 doors airlock fashion so you can forbid the other door when you notice a cat pileup to stop dwarves from pathing through the room and letting the cats out before their death). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:::Make the floor of the cat impound a retracting bridge. When pulled, cats fall 1 z-level into a completely sealed walled-in room. Now there is no door to escape, and cats cease pathfinding in favor of standing there pitiably until the end of time. Deconstruct a wall to let them out. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)

== Virgin birth? ==

My current fortress is an obsidian wasteland, complete with haunted area that is spawning undead animals regularly. I only brought 1 cat with me. I haven't kept an eagle's eye on the creatures in the area, but my single female cat just gave birth to kittens. No immigrants have arrived, but I've had the first two caravans come through. They don't bring (uncaged) cats with them, do they?