Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:DUMBELLS

2010-04-09T00:53:42Z

Iban: /* ... */ new section

==Creatures==

Nice work taking charge of the Creatures page! About time someone did. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 16:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! --[[User:DUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 22:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:Something like this format was discussed "once upon a time" (see [[Talk:Main_Page#Articles_on_Olivine_and_other_generic_stones|MainPage talk]], esp the bottom part, or all of it if you can't sleep), but never went anywhere. See [[Example - some fish]] for one idea.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of having the game object data included, and I'll consider changing the format. --[[User:DUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 22:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== ... ==

I know you... [[User:Iban|Iban]] 00:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Briess

2010-02-09T07:20:12Z

Iban: /* Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism */

== Extension request ==

(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows:
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

==Archive Subdomain problem==
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact info? ==

Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== You may want to watch this page ==

[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Short delay for new accounts? ==

Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.

Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP numbers instead of sig? ==

When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... 
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

==leave==
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==Personal==
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]

== Deletion Policy ==

Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? 
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. 
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh. 
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none. 
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== graphic gone missing ==

[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad.

I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus.

You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ?

Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

::This is stupid and childish. I suggest the two of you cease contact and stay away from the quote page. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 07:20, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==

The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cannot add new accounts ==

The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong

<pre>
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below:

This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre>

Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP

:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.

::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue.
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==

We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==

I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]

As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.

I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!

Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==

Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]] (one of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]), but he continues to make edits to the [[gremlin]] page. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Can I have admin rights? ==

Hey. I'm working on developing wiki pages for the new version of DF. These pages are listed [[:Category:Dwarf_Fortress_2010|here]]. There is a lot to do for this and most people probably won't be too interested for a couple weeks after release. I'm hoping to have something in place for structure, and also for new users before release. In doing so I'm trying to rearrange some of the pages I've made and make them more useful. I've done a few moves but I'm going to have a lot of move over redirects to do at some point and I need admin rights to make sure I clean up the mess I make. I've been admin on a dozen or so wikis, and effectively ran [http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki sporewiki] for months myself. If you give me admin rights you can feel free to monitor all my actions to make sure everything is kosher. I just hate having to bother someone else to fix tiny things. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 17:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:Just as a side comment, it's usually been my observation (from many different places) that directly asking for admin rights is a really good way to ensure that the answer will be "no", especially for somebody who only registered on the wiki 1 week ago, but that's just me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::I suppose on a forum or site where admin matters, but on wikis my experience is that if people have a reasonable use for the tools and don't look like they intend to screw anything up, then who cares? But then again, that's only because everything is able to be undone so it's a zero risk situation. I don't know why people would want to make a wiki and then restrict people who seem helpful from editing it easily, kinda counter-productive imo. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 03:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I think Admin is the wrong word. These kinds of people are janitors or managers or something. Admins are people who also manage users, sometime you don't want a person to have access to. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 03:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
::::Depends what environment you are familiar with. On Mediawiki-based wikis (Wikipedia for example) the phrase "Admin" often refers to the user group that has a few powers like deleting pages, blocking users, protecting pages, editing system messages, because these are the default for the sysop group. I really only have a desire to use the deleting pages power, but there is a lot of opportunity to work on the system messages here as well. I posted this hear because even though the average person doesn't know that admin = person with a couple extra powers on a wiki, I assumed Briess (who is a bureaucrat) would know. Admin is in Media-Wiki terminology correct, the person who manages users is a bureaucrat on wikis. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 06:05, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wouldn't it be less problematic to just create Category:Deletion_requests or something? Oh, we already have that at [[:Category:Deletion]]. I don't know if Briess knows about it though. --[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 06:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
::::::Well I don't see any reason why it's problematic to just hit the button on the user rights page. Just because some people seem to think that admin on a wiki should be like a reward system instead of a set of tools doesn't mean that's the right thing to do. Especially when the two bureaucrats aren't even on here most days (or so it seems). [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 08:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not inclined to make a decision about this just yet, give me a day or two to mull over it. If you want to continue discussing this, please do by all means. Also, I am aware of the deletion request page, and actually pruned it this last week. :) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 10:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Sounds good, just remember that all sysop actions are revertible as well, as well as the decision to make someone a sysop. You can always just mark deletion and then visit [http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Mason11987&page=&year=&month=-1 this page] once a day to make sure I wasn't deleting useful things. Most of what I intend to delete will be my own pages anyway, or redirect pages. I read your comment on your deletion policy on albedo's talk page and that's pretty much my philosophy as well. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 18:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

== Wİkimedia Commons ==

I've been thinking that it would be nice to add some photos to the wiki, such as of trees, stones and animals, for example. Wikimedia commons would make an excellent source, since from what I gather the whole point of it is that the images are meant to be freely reused. However, apparently third party wikis such as this one can link to commons directly, if it's enabled. (see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgForeignFileRepos and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseInstantCommons) So is there any chance we could get that enabled? (Excuse me if this is already enabled, but unless I am mistaken it is not.)--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 01:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

== Help with Bloodline Games ==

I've started a couple of games ([[User:Melek|see my user page]]) but although lots of people seem interested from various discussion pages I'm guessing they're not watching that page to see that games are now being hosted. Is there any way for me to send emails to these interested parties or have someone who already has access to their emails to do it for me? I would like to get these games on the go and alot of people are interested on the Wiki without knowing about them! -- [[User:Melek|Melek]] 06:35, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

40d:Grate

2010-02-07T07:18:28Z

Iban: Information was a complete fabrication.

'''Grates''' are a furniture building can be placed either as walkable platforms (as a '''floor grate''') or as walls (as a '''wall grate'''). They can be constructed from [[stone]] or [[ore]] (with the [[masonry]] [[labour]] at a [[mason's workshop]]), wood (with the [[carpentry]] labor in a [[carpenter's workshop]]), or [[Metal|metal bar]]s (with the a [[blacksmithing]] labour at a [[forge]]). They are represented in game by the symbol " # ".

Grates, like [[Bars]], are incredibly useful as a semipermeable membrane. Uses include:
*Creatures may walk over floor grates.
*Creatuers may no walk (or swim) through wall grates, making them a useful separator in Underground Rivers.
*They can be operated with a [[lever]] to retract them in either position.
*[[Fishing|Fisherdwarves]] may fish through floor grates.
*Dwarves may drink through grates (assuming there is 4/7 or more water directly under it).

Floor grates ''must'' be attached [[orthogonal]]ly (i.e. not diagonally) to firm ground or some solid construction (a wall, floor, etc), not (just) other grates. [[Construction]]s, of any type, will ''not'' be supported by grates - although the game allows you to designate something supported only by a grate, any construction will collapse as soon as it is completed. Wall grates need only be placed on top of a natural or constructed floor - no supporting walls are needed.

Since a grate must be connected to something other than other grates, they currently cannot be used to cover a large area by themselves. Therefore, large areas can only be covered with some sort of patchwork connected to solid ground, such as this tessellated pattern, which covers 80% of any extended area with grates, and the top of a "wall" only 1 every 5 tiles:

+ <- single supporting tile
# #+## #+##
#+####+####+## + = natural ground or top of [[wall]] 1 [[z-level]] below
##+####+####+# # = grate
##+####+###
##+# ##+#

:''Note that none of these are constructed floors, unless those are attached to something other than a grate.''

== Compared to Bars ==

Floor grates and wall grates are much like floor [[bars]] and vertical bars. Are they different? [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=12967.msg120313#msg120313 Toady writes]:

<blockquote>
I don't think there's a meaningful distinction at this time [10/31/2007] (perhaps the grate does have that extra step to make the item). Later, I imagine larger items will fall through bars, and only small items will go through grates. Grates might also stop most vermin. Perhaps even small units could go through bars.
</blockquote>

{{buildings}}
[[Category:Furniture]]

40d:Grate

2010-02-07T06:52:07Z

Iban:

'''Grates''' are a furniture building can be placed either as walkable platforms (as a '''floor grate''') or as walls (as a '''wall grate'''). They can be constructed from [[stone]] or [[ore]] (with the [[masonry]] [[labour]] at a [[mason's workshop]]), wood (with the [[carpentry]] labor in a [[carpenter's workshop]]), or [[Metal|metal bar]]s (with the a [[blacksmithing]] labour at a [[forge]]). They are represented in game by the symbol " # ".

Grates, like [[Bars]], are incredibly useful as a semipermeable membrane. Uses include:
*Creatures may walk over floor grates.
*Creatuers may no walk (or swim) through wall grates, making them a useful separator in Underground Rivers.
*They can be operated with a [[lever]] to retract them in either position.
*[[Fishing|Fisherdwarves]] may fish through floor grates.
*Dwarves may drink through grates (assuming there is 4/7 or more water directly under it).
*Grates prevent dwarves from being scared or interrupted by creatures on the other side. You can now make zoos featuring lions, tigers, and elves in their synthetic exhibits.

Floor grates ''must'' be attached [[orthogonal]]ly (i.e. not diagonally) to firm ground or some solid construction (a wall, floor, etc), not (just) other grates. [[Construction]]s, of any type, will ''not'' be supported by grates - although the game allows you to designate something supported only by a grate, any construction will collapse as soon as it is completed. Wall grates need only be placed on top of a natural or constructed floor - no supporting walls are needed.

Since a grate must be connected to something other than other grates, they currently cannot be used to cover a large area by themselves. Therefore, large areas can only be covered with some sort of patchwork connected to solid ground, such as this tessellated pattern, which covers 80% of any extended area with grates, and the top of a "wall" only 1 every 5 tiles:

+ <- single supporting tile
# #+## #+##
#+####+####+## + = natural ground or top of [[wall]] 1 [[z-level]] below
##+####+####+# # = grate
##+####+###
##+# ##+#

:''Note that none of these are constructed floors, unless those are attached to something other than a grate.''

== Compared to Bars ==

Floor grates and wall grates are much like floor [[bars]] and vertical bars. Are they different? [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=12967.msg120313#msg120313 Toady writes]:

<blockquote>
I don't think there's a meaningful distinction at this time [10/31/2007] (perhaps the grate does have that extra step to make the item). Later, I imagine larger items will fall through bars, and only small items will go through grates. Grates might also stop most vermin. Perhaps even small units could go through bars.
</blockquote>

{{buildings}}
[[Category:Furniture]]

Toady One

2010-02-04T13:24:29Z

Iban: Fixed numerous grammatical errors and generally cleaned up the biography.

{{D for Dwarf}}


== Early Life ==
Toady One was born on January 5th, 1981 in Anchorage, Alaska. There was a blizzard at the time of his birth, and he sustained crippling frostbite to both his feet almost immediately upon exiting the womb that debilitates him to this day. Because of his injuries, he was never an active or social child and had to stay indoors under the care of his mother, in a household with a severely [[alcohol|alcoholic]] father, who, in his drunken frenzies, strapped him to his chest as a meat shield while hunting [[wolf|wolves]] and [[carp]] with his decorative, and non-functional, hunting [[bow]] that often resorted in the beast being beat to death with it.

By the time he was 10, he had already had multiple points on his body mangled from the wolf attacks. To his fortune, however, his father was killed in the great [[goblin|Eskimo]] [[Siege]] of 1992. This left him with many years to contemplate the meaning of life, developing a keep sense of logic.

== College Years ==
When entering college, he quickly found a taste for programming. Alone and miserable in his dorm with his [[ThreeToe|abusive boyfriend]], he spent most of his time honing skills in software engineering and smoothing his ideas for [[Dwarf Fortress|a game with unimaginable brutality and carnage]].

On the brink of [[insanity]], he was bailed out from [[Hidden Fun Stuff|the depths of hell]] in April 2009 by his now better half: [[Scamps]]. The two of them spent hours alone discussing what to implement in their life's work. Among these, in the excavated notes, were [[bridge|large crushing devices]], [[dwarf|alcoholic creatures which barely care for their children]], cinematic brawls, and other [[carp|bizarre, horrific aquatic creatures]].

== Current Lifestyle ==
Little is known about Toady One, as he spends most of his time in his basement with Scamps. [[ThreeToe|His lover]] is sometimes rarely seen outside in the front yard, screaming in [[strange mood|pseudo-shakespearean language about various demands]] (such as chunks of rock, bins of cloth, and turtle parts). Very rarely, ThreeToe will even begin reading a history textbook, demanding that he will only stop if everything he says is imprinted on a [[Planepacked|limestone statue]]. However, after a few days, he passes out and presents the only opportunity in which Toady One may be seen: Dragging his dehydrated body back inside. Scamps remains elusive.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:TOADY_ONE]
[NAME:toady one:toady one:toady one]
[TILE:249][COLOR:2:0:0]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CAN_SPEAK]
[BENIGN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[INTELLIGENT]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[MAXAGE:60:120]
[SPEED:2900][NATURAL]
[FAT:3]
[PREFSTRING:coding]
[NOCTURNAL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[LAYERING:10]
[MALE]
[SPEECH_MALE:human_male.txt]
[MUNDANE]
}}

[[Category:Game development]]

User talk:Briess

2010-02-01T03:16:19Z

Iban: /* Can I have admin rights? */

== Extension request ==

(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows:
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

==Archive Subdomain problem==
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact info? ==

Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== You may want to watch this page ==

[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Short delay for new accounts? ==

Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.

Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP numbers instead of sig? ==

When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... 
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

==leave==
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==Personal==
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]

== Deletion Policy ==

Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? 
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. 
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh. 
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none. 
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== graphic gone missing ==

[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad.

I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus.

You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ?

Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==

The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cannot add new accounts ==

The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong

<pre>
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below:

This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre>

Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP

:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.

::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue.
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==

We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==

I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]

As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.

I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!

Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==

Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]] (one of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]), but he continues to make edits to the [[gremlin]] page. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Can I have admin rights? ==

Hey. I'm working on developing wiki pages for the new version of DF. These pages are listed [[:Category:Dwarf_Fortress_2010|here]]. There is a lot to do for this and most people probably won't be too interested for a couple weeks after release. I'm hoping to have something in place for structure, and also for new users before release. In doing so I'm trying to rearrange some of the pages I've made and make them more useful. I've done a few moves but I'm going to have a lot of move over redirects to do at some point and I need admin rights to make sure I clean up the mess I make. I've been admin on a dozen or so wikis, and effectively ran [http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki sporewiki] for months myself. If you give me admin rights you can feel free to monitor all my actions to make sure everything is kosher. I just hate having to bother someone else to fix tiny things. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 17:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:Just as a side comment, it's usually been my observation (from many different places) that directly asking for admin rights is a really good way to ensure that the answer will be "no", especially for somebody who only registered on the wiki 1 week ago, but that's just me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::I suppose on a forum or site where admin matters, but on wikis my experience is that if people have a reasonable use for the tools and don't look like they intend to screw anything up, then who cares? But then again, that's only because everything is able to be undone so it's a zero risk situation. I don't know why people would want to make a wiki and then restrict people who seem helpful from editing it easily, kinda counter-productive imo. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 03:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I think Admin is the wrong word. These kinds of people are janitors or managers or something. Admins are people who also manage users, sometime you don't want a person to have access to. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 03:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Briess

2010-02-01T03:16:04Z

Iban: /* Can I have admin rights? */

== Extension request ==

(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows:
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

==Archive Subdomain problem==
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact info? ==

Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== You may want to watch this page ==

[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Short delay for new accounts? ==

Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.

Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP numbers instead of sig? ==

When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... 
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

==leave==
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==Personal==
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]

== Deletion Policy ==

Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? 
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. 
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh. 
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none. 
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== graphic gone missing ==

[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad.

I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus.

You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ?

Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==

The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cannot add new accounts ==

The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong

<pre>
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below:

This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre>

Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP

:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.

::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue.
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==

We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==

I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]

As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.

I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!

Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==

Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]] (one of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]), but he continues to make edits to the [[gremlin]] page. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Can I have admin rights? ==

Hey. I'm working on developing wiki pages for the new version of DF. These pages are listed [[:Category:Dwarf_Fortress_2010|here]]. There is a lot to do for this and most people probably won't be too interested for a couple weeks after release. I'm hoping to have something in place for structure, and also for new users before release. In doing so I'm trying to rearrange some of the pages I've made and make them more useful. I've done a few moves but I'm going to have a lot of move over redirects to do at some point and I need admin rights to make sure I clean up the mess I make. I've been admin on a dozen or so wikis, and effectively ran [http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki sporewiki] for months myself. If you give me admin rights you can feel free to monitor all my actions to make sure everything is kosher. I just hate having to bother someone else to fix tiny things. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 17:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
:Just as a side comment, it's usually been my observation (from many different places) that directly asking for admin rights is a really good way to ensure that the answer will be "no", especially for somebody who only registered on the wiki 1 week ago, but that's just me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::I suppose on a forum or site where admin matters, but on wikis my experience is that if people have a reasonable use for the tools and don't look like they intend to screw anything up, then who cares? But then again, that's only because everything is able to be undone so it's a zero risk situation. I don't know why people would want to make a wiki and then restrict people who seem helpful from editing it easily, kinda counter-productive imo. [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 03:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:::I think Admin is the wrong word. These kinds of people are janitors or managers or something. Admins are people who also manage users. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 03:16, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Giant cave spider

2010-02-01T00:46:11Z

Iban: /* Harvesting Giant Cave Spider Silk */

==Anecdotes on article page==
THEY ARE EVIL. One killed 2 of my proficient miners on its own! It has a breath attack that shoots webs and it rips off people limbs! Dont attack them if you know whats good for you! --[[User:Diabl0658]]
:What is this? I did not write this in the comments! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
::The article page was cleaned up - less personal (the 'my' aspect of it - that only applies to ''your'' (Diabl0658's) experience and not necessarily that of any future editor). JT copied the anecdote in the article to the talk page and attributed it to you. (Side consideration sub pages of /anecdote for this type of thing?) --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 22:44, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::What Shagie said. I figure the articles themselves should be left for "fact" (you can inject subtle humour or hearsay if it's between the lines), while any personal experiences or questions can be mentioned on the Talk pages. (I dunno if an anecdotal page is necessary. Do we really need so many more stub pages?) That's the general idea on Wikipedia, anyway... --[[User:JT|JT]] 23:13, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::: The sub page idea could be a way of clearly making a place for anecdotes that would otherwise show up in article pages or talk pages (where talk pages would (in theory) be more about the factual/design content of the articles themselves. One of the wikis I am involved with is particularly prone to vandalism - the funny vandalism they move off to a sub page. This way, its still there as a record but isn't hampering discussion or reading the article itself. Realize I'm not calling anecdotes vandalism, but rather suggesting a similar way that they can be put somewhere so they don't hamper discussion or the article. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 23:25, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
==Categories?==
Should this article not be under the "creatures" section? --[[User:Talith|Talith]]
==Phantom vs GC spiders==
I've noticed a few references to "phantom spiders" in material lists and such. Is it possible that a phantom spider is in fact what created that hellishly large web in the picture, or is it known that that was a regular giant cave spider? --[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]]

:Nope, that's a bona fide giant cave spider. You can see it towards the centre of the web. Phantom spiders are vermin-sized critters which appear only on evil maps. --[[User:JT|JT]] 01:06, 6 November 2007 (EST)

You should probably upload that web picture to the wiki rather than an external host. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:18, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== The Spidernator ==

Added a line half intended to bring a chuckle to readers, though well with intent of warning of one of their greatest threats that wasn't previously mentioned; they can't be stunned or incapacitated in any way, due to having such tokens as [NOPAIN] and [NOSTUN], along with several other immunities. I modified the "quote" a bit so that it more accurately fits the description for more practical purposes. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 21:53 EST, 15 November 2007

== Giant Spider Silk ==

Sure, they can poison you and web you up and eat you later. (Attercob! Attercob!) But don't their webs make the loveliest high-value [[silk]] shirts and cloaks? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:11, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
: I understand they can be tamed by a [[Dungeon Master]]; does anyone know if they will still produce silk for the loom if tame? Is the webbing they spray at attacking enemies collectible for the loom? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:08, 14 January 2009 (EST)
::To catch it, you would probably need a ton of cage traps and AT LEAST half a dozen recruits for bait (the faster the better). Beware: 'bait' has 90% fatality rate, and you may cause a tantrum spiral. Use a wave of immigrants you don't want for this (insane) task. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 04:47, 13 August 2009 (EST)
:::Alternatively, if it's inside a bottomless pit (and you know which level it's on), you can dig a tunnel up to it (but not all the way), build a cage trap, chain a puppy behind the trap, then dig out the final wall (and make sure everything inside the pit is forbidden, such as any ratman bones). If the spider has already revealed itself, place the tunnel somewhere in its line of sight - once it sees the chained animal, it'll make a beeline toward it and walk straight into the cage trap. In my latest fortress, I got impatient and unchained the first dog to reveal the spider, then chained a second one to lure it into the trap - my GCS silk farm can easily generate over a hundred webs per season. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:57, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
:::The way I managed to capture one was by digging a tunnel that was in as direct a line as possible from where the Giant Spider was hanging out to the entrance of my fort. (Making sure the end point of the tunnel was far enough away from the spiddy that it didn't "trigger" it to attack.) Then I built a cage trap inside and activated a dwarf of mine who was supper agile (fast) and slowly walked him towards the spider. As soon as the spider started moving I deactivated my dwarf and the civilianized dwarf headed back twards my fort taking the shortest route possible (through the tunnel). Spider followed and got caught. I lost my first dwarf trying this out, but was successful with my second. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 16:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::So, the question still stands: Can you use tame GCS to produce webbing? Do they only shoot it at enemies, and can you collect it? --[[Special:Contributions/24.179.141.137|24.179.141.137]] 23:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
:::I imagine it best not to tame them to harvest the silk. Instead, try to entomb them hostile into a 1x1 room with a fortification in it which faces your silk industry. Dwarves going to work in the shop or hauling from the stockpile will anger the spider enough to make it vomit web through the fortification, continually replenishing your stocks? [[Special:Contributions/76.185.61.24|76.185.61.24]] 11:15, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
::::GCS silk farms work just fine if the spider is tame, provided you use hostile bait. Also, your described setup would not work at all - a GCS won't shoot webs unless it has a valid path to its target (ideally involving unlocked but pet-impassable doors, due to a pathfinding bug), and putting it right near your workshops would make it impossible for your dwarves to do anything at all, instead constantly '''running away''' from what they perceive to be a hostile creature. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:34, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
::::Problem is, it'll scare the dwarves and you'll be flooded with job cancellation spam. Actually, I bet most of the silk would never even be collected, as everyone would be too scared to go close enough to the cage to get it. --Arrkhal (not logged in)
::::Oh, and a tame one ''will'' still shoot webs at hostiles. Just use captured, unarmed goblins. Either with the spider in a fortification "cage," or the lazy way and just "feed" it the gobbos. --Arrkhal (not logged in)

== Visible invisible web ==

I've seen giant cave spider silk webs in my pit in my most recent fort (haven't bothered to touch them yet, haha). Could it be that new pieces of web are visible from creation point? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:30, 4 November 2008 (EST)
:I've got the same thing in my bottomless pit. I've had five units of Giant Cave Spider Silk Web visible on my stocks screen since embark, despite the pit not being revealed (probably a bug). --[[Special:Contributions/24.179.141.137|24.179.141.137]] 23:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Escaping a web ==

Could someone who knows include information in this article regarding whether a dwarf can escape a web or be freed from one?
When my dwarf gets stuck in a web he invariably gets killed...--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 00:30, 3 February 2009 (EST)
:Well, when the spider cannot reach entangled dwarf, the paralysis wears away pretty quickly.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:40, 3 February 2009 (EST)
::Thanks, I think I understand now. The web just "paralyzes" the dwarf for an amount of time after which he is able to move again and get stuck again.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 02:23, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Stray Giant Cave Spider (tame) bleeds to death ==

Anyone have this problem? I've a tame giant cave spider that just keeps randomly dying while staying in my meeting hall. It was perfectly healthy. I assume that the creature is somehow "freezing" to death, even though I'm on a warm map? I come to this conclusion because of its homeotherm:10040 and no layering, perhaps, and I'm thinking that it is too hot for the creature. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 07:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

:Upon further review, I think a friendly trade caravan is killing it. Either way, it is bothersome. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 07:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Wall climbing abilities? ==
I was in the middle of constructing my spider moat (it involves a sealed of room with a cow(and a trap in front of it), the other room contains the soon-to-be-captured GCS, my plan was to have the not tame GCS kill everything in my moat and then get re-caught but they i realized "couldn't it simply climb out?" How does GCS's move around in their almost cliff-like pits and chasms? do they have some kind of wall climb abilities? - [[User:Sava2004|Sava2004]] 20:04, 30 May 2009 (EST)

:As far as I know, there are no creatures that can climb walls. I've never seen a GCS change z-levels in a pit or chasm unless they were at the surface, where there were ramps. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 10:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sensitive to Motion ==
Anyone else find that Giant Spiders appear to be sensitive to motion? Needs more testing, but A) when my sacrificial pet entered a giant spider’s lair it was safe while it didn’t move. As soon as it moved the spider shot at it with webbing and proceeded to devour it. And B) when a soldier stood in front of a row of fortifications with a giant spider behind it nothing happened, but when he was set to “patrol” along the border of the fortifications the giant spider would occasionally shoot at him with webbing. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Harvesting Giant Cave Spider Silk ==
For those who are inclined to try, it is definitely possible to harvest Giant Cave Spider (GCS) silk. While profitable, it can also be fairly costly in terms of how many dwarves end up dying in the attempt to capture the creature, but once captured there are at least two methods of harvesting the GCS silk.

1) Build a series of rooms which are connected by floodgates (floodgates can’t get stuck open) each of which has a tile channeled out above it and an activity zone making the hole a pit into the GCS’s den. Then all you need to do is drop in an animal and the GCS will (eventually) shoot at it with its webbing and eat it up. Once the GCS moves to another of the connected rooms you can go in to harvest the webs.

2) Slightly more efficient then the above method, you can also place your captured GCS in its cage along the length of a wall, link the cage to a lever, build fortifications around the cage so that the GCS can’t escape, and pull the lever releasing the GCS. Once it is released, place a recruit on patrol along the length of the fortifications. The GCS will occasionally shoot at the soldier causing webbing to appear which can be harvested. (No dwarves or animals are harmed with this method.)
Anyone else know of any GCS silk harvesting methods? --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:Floodgates '''will''' get jammed open if there's anything there, and I'm pretty sure spider webs are included. If you want a gate that will never get jammed, better make it a raising bridge. As for actually farming the silk, there are several methods that involve pet-impassable doors and chained creatures such that the spider can't reach its target but shoots webs anyways. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
::I don't know why, but for some reason I was under the impression that floodgates would crunch anything that gets caught in them. I have no idea why I thought that, however. I guess I'm going to have to pay a bit more attention to my spider den now that I know the doors can get stuck open. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I'll venture a guess as to why you'd think that: the Nethack castle drawbridge. --[[Special:Contributions/77.160.191.85|77.160.191.85]] 14:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
::::The Nethack castle drawbridge is actually much more similar to a Dwarf Fortress drawbridge - both act as atom smashers, utterly destroying anything in their tiles when they raise/lower (except for monsters that can phase through walls, of course). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 
 
:You're overcomplicating this. I don't have the patience to go out and capture anything like a GCS, but this method should work:
#Build a 3x8 room.
#Build a 3x1 floodgate line down the middle, closer to the exit. Connect to a lever.
#Build a 3x1 grate line down the middle, farther to the exit. Connect to another lever.
#Build a chain in the dead center of the section that connects to the outside world.
#Build your GCS cage in the other half. Connect to another lever.
#Build a cage trap in a narrow hallway that leads out of the silking room.
#Build a floodgate infront of this cage trap - this is the actual barrier keeping civilized dwarves from the spider lair.
#Chain a cat or something to the silking room.
#Release your spider.
#Open the floodgates.
#Let the spider silk the cat.
#Close the gates.
#Collect webs.
#???
#Profit!

--[[User:Iban|Iban]] 00:46, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

== Web Spinning ==

What causes the GCS to spin visible webs for reasons other than attacking? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 08:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

== Can they walk on their webs? ==

Can a GCS walk on the webs that are built over the chasm? [[User:TheWealthyAardvark|TheWealthyAardvark]] 18:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

== Cave Spider vs. Giant Cave Spider webs ==

My bottomless pit has a load of items shown as Cave Spider Webs, however it seems whatever is making them is a GCS. One, almost every Batman in the pit has broken legs, even when they didn't go by the troll (yeah, it has a troll). Second, no cave spiders show up- I've personally seen the webs pop out of nowhere and ensnare (vermin) bats, then k'd over the spot and found nothing. Is it marked as normal cave spider webs because the spider is still in ambush mode, or just because that's how they always are? --[[User:Rotten|Rotten]] 03:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

: Eh, apparently never mind. I did some looking and they are definitely normal cave spider webs. --[[User:Rotten|Rotten]] 04:01, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Magma

2010-01-30T22:51:13Z

Iban: /* Vs. Windows?? */

==Steel?==
Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::The "must have steel" thing is from the old 2d version. Now, it is only required to be fire safe, such as iron and steel, most other metals, and most types of rock.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

==Disabling temperature?==
If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

==Mountain Layers & magma?==
Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:::A small patch of obsidian is a dead giveaway for a magma pipe.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

==magma chamber not visible==
On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
::::I have seen this "cap" of obsidian over pipes in all temperatures.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm playing a magma pipe right now, and after filling a reservoir to build my forges over, I noticed the main pipe section refilled itself a little bit. It's not back to what it used to be, but there is definitely some regeneration going on. Seems to be going at an excruciatingly slow pace though. About 7 years into the fort and the pipe is nowhere close to being completely refilled. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.8.163|65.94.8.163]] 14:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>
:::Oh what [[Losing|FUN!]] --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]]
::::A bit late, but are you sure you didn't somehow cause a [[cave-in]] and punch a hole through the floor? I've '''never''' observed magma destroying walls or floors on its own, even those made of sand. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Good timing because I just observed this myself and it definitely wasn't a cave in. Magma created an open space in a white sand floor and began flooding my fortress. Had breached the underground river so it could also have been a tower cap burning but I didn't think that happened. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::Incidentally, that was with temperature off. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::That would actually be an interesting thing to check - my current fort has a short underground magma channel, hollow underneath, and having sand floors, but the layer underneath is all chalk so no tower-caps would be able to grow. I could possibly test it by adding some mud next to the channels, since I've observed nearby muddy floors to permit tower-cap growth above stone layers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Hidden Magma Pipe ==
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?

::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Tested this by a) dropping (non-magma safe) rocks into a river and then pouring in Lava, they were recoverable. b) putting a couple of similar rocks as well as a nickel-silver bar and a constructed nickle-silver bridge into a room, letting enough magma in to cover the floor, and then adding water before the rocks had melted. All items were recoverable and the bridge was still intact after digging it out. --[[User:Mael|Mael]] 00:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Nice! That means my Obsidian Tomb trap concept just got a lot better! --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 14:10, 20 August 2009

== Flies spawning from magma? ==

I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:This has happened to me as well, it dosn't have anything to do with the graphics mod because I don't use it, I thought it was part of the civi forge mod I have been using, my personal theory it that flies spawn from refuse and molten rocks are refuse, it might also be from the dirt that magma makes because once I found a dwarf going down to my obsidian farm to clean something, the magma had cleared because my watergate broke(I suspect that an elven plot or carp are the cause).The ground had marks on it and I saw my cleaner cleaning it up.The flies may be attracted to "dirty" tiles but i'm not sure.--[[User:Supercharazard|Supercharazard]] 17:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
::I have noticed this same behavior in vanilla DF--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Digging into volcano wall ==

While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

== digging away the obsidian ==

There's something that I've not been able to find an answer for anywhere, which is if I dig away at the obsidian walls of the magma pipe (without touching the very inner layer of obsidian), will magma thats above the obisidan tile be able to leak down or is there a floor under the magma tile (above the obsidian) that'll prevent it from spilling out? --[[User:Kain|Kain]] 21:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

:If there was a natural tile one z-level down, then there is a floor there. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Producing Obsidian section ==

The example directly on the page is difficult to understand--some diagrams would be helpful. Really, detailed designs like that should be on user pages anyway. It would be swell if the person who added this design put it on their own user page and linked to that from here. --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 01:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:Agreed, needs some simple diagram(s) (not over-specific, easily understood/modified to suit individual needs), but also needs to be 1) [[Character_table|standard notation]], and 2) on this page. If it's on a user page, other users really can't edit it if needed (for instance, to standardize the map symbols - the wall, specifically). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:Edit - upon reflection, there's every reason to give this topic its own page. [[Obsidian farming]]. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Lava ==

Lava is the same substance, but this name for the material is seen less often seen. It seems to be the result of a 1/7 magma flow onto floor tiles, before it evaporates.{{verify}}

Magma that occurs [[Tile attributes|above ground]] is referred to as '''Lava'''.
Nope, sorry - I may not have the whole definition, but your limits are just wrong. I noticed "lava" underground while piercing an aquifer. It had been pumped down from the surface, but it was then underground, and had overflow from making obsidian on water onto a floor tile - and none of the other magma doing the work was "lava", it was all "magma". So was every bit of the magma vent that was exposed. So... I don't know where that leaves us, but for now neither may be (completely) right.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
*I've got an above-ground magma pipeline that briefly passes through an underground passage - it becomes Lava once it goes above ground, turns ''back'' into Magma once it enters the subterranean tunnel, then becomes lava again when it emerges. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Magma "teleportation" ==

I've observed this an incredibly annoying number of times; as I'm writing, my current fortress just lost two mason-engravers to magma magically appearing on top of them. In all cases, this has happened when I'm digging near the magma pipe; the first was on a glacier which had a "capped" pipe, so it was covered by obsidian. I became aware of this a little more quickly than I'd like - after a short while I noticed that the small area I'd dug out (just above the magma) for forges had filled up with small amounts of magma, and continued to do so. After that, I noticed that the garbage pit I'd dug out had begun to harbor magma, and so sealed it off. And now, in my current fortress, construction of a (fully iron) screw pump is barely grinding along because the magma respawns and I have to wait for it to "evaporate" before I can continue. Considering how it's about 150 tiles away from my stockpiles, work is moving slowly, and it's requiring an obscene amount of power (and wood) just to build the infrastructure to deliver power to the pump in the first place so that it can start pumping magma through the 5 or so z-levels ahead of it. I can't have somebody power it themselves unless I'm in the mood for barbecue (and don't mind any more casualties on my end). This is kind of getting on my nerves, because I can't expand into using magma-powered workshops until that one pump is actually delivering magma to the reservoir I designed for that purpose, and even after that, there are about 7 more floors to go until it reaches the workshops. 
TL;DR: Magma is refilling where it shouldn't, and it's getting '''extremely''' [[Fun|annoying]]. Suggestions? I have an [[aquifer]] of unknown depth surrounding the source, so I can't take the direct route. (I found out by trying to, it wasn't pleasant.) ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 00:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
:If the pump's input tile has a "Magma Flow" directly beneath it (i.e. no obsidian walls obstructing the path) and said pump is not at the very top of the magma pipe, then the magma pipe is simply refilling into that tile. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:41, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
::Seen it mentioned on the forums that the magma pipe refills by spawning magma at the TOP of the pipe, rather than from the bottom or whatever level the magma's at. Probably should be added to the article. --Gelmax
:::No, since that's wrong - the magma spawns at the '''surface''' of the magma, not the top of the pipe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vs. Windows?? ==

I know walls are impervious to magma, but I was going to drain down some of my magma pipe, and wanted happiness from the fall, without much danger. So, I put up a gm window. Let's see what happens.--Aescula (not logged in ATM)
:Magma never forms mist unless it is caught in a cave-in. And, as far as I know, it does not cause the happy thoughts. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 22:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Briess

2010-01-30T11:09:59Z

Iban: /* Vandal */

== Extension request ==

(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows:
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

==Archive Subdomain problem==
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact info? ==

Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== You may want to watch this page ==

[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Short delay for new accounts? ==

Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.

Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP numbers instead of sig? ==

When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... 
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

==leave==
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==Personal==
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]

== Deletion Policy ==

Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? 
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. 
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh. 
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none. 
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== graphic gone missing ==

[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad.

I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus.

You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ?

Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==

The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cannot add new accounts ==

The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong

<pre>
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below:

This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre>

Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP

:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.

::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue.
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==

We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==

I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]

As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.

I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!

Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==

Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]] (one of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]), but he continues to make edits to the [[gremlin]] page. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Briess

2010-01-30T11:08:50Z

Iban: /* Vandal */ new section

== Extension request ==

(mostly copied from [[User talk:senso]])

A string manipulation extension would allow things to be dynamically created from raw files and other powerful templates. With the upcoming big change to creature structure in DF, something that pulls info directly from raw data would really help rework the creature pages. I've been looking through some extensions, and one of these would fit well (in order of preference)
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiReplace
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexParserFunctions
#http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions
The first one is a replacement function that can preform multiple replacements in one call (and it supports regex). The second one is a straightforward regex engine, and the last one is a collection of string manipulations. For my suggested purpose just one of the three would be enough, but none of them completely covers the tasks the of others. So, if possible, having all of them would be best. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

:Their functionality does overlap a lot. The differences are as follows:
*Multireplace can preform multiple replacements with one call, which the second one cannot. It can evaluate regular expressions for the replacement.
*RegexParserFunctions can preform a regex replacement. It can also be used for a regex search, which multireplace isn't meant for.
:Multireplace would be better suited for a template that generates diagrams. Regexparserfunctions could do this by nesting the function call many times, which I don't think is a good idea.
:Regexparserfunctions would be better suited for a template that pulls information from raw data files. Multireplace could do this by matching everything before and after the matchtext and cropping it, like so: '''(.*)(matchtext)(.*)=$2'''. However, to do this multireplace is effectively matching the entire page at once. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

::This is a possible alternative: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RegexFunctions [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

==Archive Subdomain problem==
Sorry to bother, i sent an email to senso, but it seems that you are the new admin. Grats.
Yesterday i was surfing the archive [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page] and suddendly it started to redirect to a french blog. Now it redirect to the main wiki. (Actually every subdomain redirects to the main wiki, also invalid ones) Can you bring it back? I know that it's rarely used, but sometimes it's funny to build 2D nostalgia fortresses. --[[User:Tempus|Tempus]] 09:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact info? ==

Thanks for stepping up. Are you going to have an e-mail contact addy, for less public communication? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Favicon ==

The favicon for the previous wiki seems not to have been copied over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

:http://web.archive.org/web/20071127071819/http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/favicon.ico [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== You may want to watch this page ==

[[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Short delay for new accounts? ==

Some wikis have a policy of a short waiting period between the creation of a new user account and the ability to edit an article. (On the main wiki, I believe this is 30 days.) This delay achieves 3 things, but the only one I'm really concerned with is that it would ''seriously'' slow down bots and spammers. As a side benefit, it also prevents confused newbies from editing before they have a feel for the wiki as a whole, and spontaneous, ill-considered or mean-spirited contributions from a variety of other less-than-serious sources, such as the occasional spur-of-the-moment vandal or the late-Saturday-night beer-goggled comedy writing team. I think 1 week would be ample, but even a 48 or 72 hour period might slow the spam bots. No editor who has a worthwhile contribution to make would resent 48 hours to consider their first effort.

Just a thought.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP numbers instead of sig? ==

When I was trying to use the standard <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> sig, IP numbers are coming up instead of the user/date. See [[Talk:Furniture Industry]]. Don't know what's up wi'dat. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today...
Okay, that must have been it - I had no notification that it wouldn't accept my edit, so... 
Otoh, I, for one, do have a problem when a page gets edited by [[24.198.25.175]] - how do I respond on their talk page? More, don't some smaller ISP's still share IP numbers between users over time in the same area? So... who, exactly, made that edit? Everyone with that ISP? Lastly, when keeping getting a feel for who is editing what, and their style, hard to mentally keep casual track of an IP addy. Just one vote, but in this case, it's one of dissent.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Well, you da boss. You may want to make a general announcement, perhaps on the "current events" page? It's rather jarring to see IP's instead of user:names, and I would never have guessed that their :talk page would work - might want to mention that, too, for all the other ignorants out there. (Also, if I never "don't log in" again, I'll never see any response to the one IP edit I did make, right? 2 user pages for each editor w/ a user:name? And even more if they (don't) log in from different locations/IP's? hrmmm...)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
You're on 'er, yer honour. Sleeep gooood...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

==leave==
User AcpasNorol wants to leave the wiki (see edits). I think he was blocked before, are old spamaccounts still blocked? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.37.191|92.202.37.191]] 13:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

==Personal==
Thanks for cleaning up after me, including the formatting on the joining page. --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]]

== Deletion Policy ==

Redirects serve two purposes - links from other articles, and Searches. These fit under neither category, or none that also fit other policies (like singular/plural article names). And a lot depends on what links to them - since most of these were orphans (or effectively so, any reference only being a conversation re deletion) what are the odds of a search? 
Re plurals - I guess on one hand once they're there, they might as well stay, but they do set a bad precedent, and they are serving no good purpose except as an undesirable crutch. 
As far as "bizmuth bronze", that's a terrible precedent imo - do we start allowing any and every misspelled word to be "redirected"? If it's regional (armour/armor) or a common confusion (adamantium/adamantine) I support it 100%, but misspellings? Bleh. Remind me to make a redirect page for the metals iorn and steal, and sliver and goaled, among others. Double bleh. 
[[Personality modding]] was someone's pet project that was never started beyond posting the (almost blank) page, and abandoned and forgotten by late '07, not updated until [[user:I2amroy]] copied/pasted the entirety of the personality page onto it without further comment. It had no links except on 2 user pages, one where we were recently wondering "WTF ''IS'' this?", and another that's listed under "old forum links". Since the page itself was 2 years old, and has nothing that the original didn't... I think it's another that could get trimmed without loss, as the odds of anyone typing in "personality modding" are slim to none. 
So my position is "Lose 'em all, no one will ever miss them, and it's a cleaner site without" - but that's my opinion - the final policy is up to you.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
.... Er, I really meant if you still disagree, I'm more than willing to continue discussing what the appropriate course of action should be over any editorial policies we may have on this wiki.
Nah - I'm opinionated and vocal, but that's not the same as being always adamant in that opinion nor believing that means that I'm "right" (nor always spoiling for an argument/fight, some evidence to the contrary). I've voiced my point and the reasons behind it, and I believe you've weighed that (Respect) - so if in your estimation it doesn't wash, that's all good by me. (In this case.) ;) The policies are a collaboration as much as the content itself, and we've held to that process. So, until next time... ;D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== graphic gone missing ==

[[File:Pumpsnc4.png]], from the [[pump]] page, is MIA. I have no idea why or how, she gone.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

== Quote page - Karl's recent deletion constitutes vandalism ==
Karl is continually removing any and every quote I add to the quote page while leaving alone anything added by anyone else. Ie, he's clearly attacking me rather than trying to improve the quote page. This behavior is strikingly aberrant especially because he seems to be in favor of keeping any other quote no matter how bad.

I've acted in good faith to improve the quote page, and am trying to participate in a dialog about the other deleted quotes which I honestly don't feel belong on the page on their own merits. He's judging quotes i've added solely on the basis that I added them. He's also deleted other quotes i've added previously, and appends his recent changes summary with smilie faces as if he thinks he's being funny. This amounts to vandalism pure and simple. Needless to say, this is unacceptable behavior.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Addendum: My attempts to talk with him about it on his talk page caused him to merely delete my text with no response. I hate to ask it, but i'm asking for administrative action - he's clearly incapable of separating personal from substantative differences. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The quote I removed was based on the way you remove them, they were not grade-A funny quote. A taste of your own Medicine. You judge quote based on your biased opinion, saying they need to be funny, which is not the case, it's written nowhere on the wiki. You try to impose your own twisted sense of humor on this wiki. The fact no one cares about the quote make it hard to add them back, even if me and corona wanted to have some back, you opposed your veto, saying it was hardly a consensus.

You are by the way really condescending vs me and corona, talking about whining and all, did it ever occur to you that humor might be a personal taste ?

Oh, and by the way, it's unnecessary to copy/paste your rant on multiple page. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

:As much as i hate to have a discussion with you on someone else's talk page
:First, the discussions, while on related issues, served different purposes. Namely a referendum on the quotes talk page on those quotes versus talking with an administrator about the appropriateness of particular editing behavior.
:Second, you're applying a different standard to quotes I've added than to other quotes on that page, which means you're targetting them because I've added them. Ie, exactly what I've said above. I doubt anything which I add you would ever consider grade-A funny, solely because i've added it.
:Third, they certainly aren't quotes crafted by me - i've merely noticed them and decided they should be added. They deserve to be judged on their own merits. You're not hurting me by removing them because I added them, you're hurting the page, and you're penalizing the people whose material it was originally.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Number of regex evaluations allowed per page ==

The number-of-functions-per-page parameter in the regex parser functions extension defaults to 10. Limiting it to a small number isn't warranted since computation time is based more on the complexity of the expressions involved rather than the quantity. A higher limit would allow [[template:diagram]] to be used more than three times on a single page. I've compared the serve time of these two pages: [[User:VengefulDonut/g|a]] [[User:VengefulDonut/r|b]], and found the difference was usually about 0.003 seconds. Based on this, I don't think its use is dangerous. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

:Hmm. If the ceiling is a few hundred, we probably won't bump into it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

::When you were testing [[template:diagram]], the limit you bumped into was the post-expand include size limit for templates. Templates are not allowed to generate more than 2MB of data on a single page. Since trying to display 2MB of data in one article is a bad idea anyway, this limit is very reasonable. If you want to see the include size, serve time, and other properties of an article, they get added as comments the page's html source when served. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cannot add new accounts ==

The wiki will not allow new accounts to be created as the picture thing seems to be set up wrong

<pre>
To help protect against automated account creation, please type the two words you see in the box below:

This reCAPTCHA key isn't authorized for the given domain. More info </pre>

Please fix, I would like to set up and account versus being just an IP

:I found this other site "http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/" by googleing "Briess contact wiki" which looks very simular, and reCAPTCHA works on. That .net site did let me make an account and post the above message. Then it showed up on the .com site, and then the .com site let me log in. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

::Well I still can't post on the .com site as each post seems to require the annoying reCAPTCHA thing (which doesn't work). But any thing I put on that other .net site, shows up on the orginal .com one very quickly. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 00:37, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Briess asked, The .com site is the First (and Second) hit on google when searching for "dwarven fortress wiki" which is http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com And yes I know that its "Dwarf Fortress" not "Dwarven Fortress", is just that when I speak to others about DF "Dwarven" is usally said since it is Dwarfs that build that Fortress.

::::Well I don't know what you have access to, and how lowlevel you can get on the webserver. But a Robots.txt that prevents google from indexing the .com site would fix my issue.
::::I can't find any trace of a 301 redirect on the .com site through IE6 or Netscpe. Also redirect checking tool http://www.internetofficer.com/seo-tool/redirect-check/ seems to think there is not redirect either. Hope this helps. [[User:Larek|Larek]] 15:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links to russian DF wiki ==

We previously had the ability to create interwiki links to the corresponding page on the Russian DF wiki. It seems that this functionality has been broken. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:15, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

:The russian wiki is at http://www.dfwk.ru/ [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

== Custom namespace on the wiki for DF mods? ==

I'm one of the people working on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46472.0 Ark Project], a collaborative DF mod. So far we've been using a [[User_talk:Lancensis|user talk page]] on the DF wiki for planning purposes, but we were thinking it'd be nice if there were a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces custom namespace] called "Mod" on the wiki. This would also help clean up the problem with [[:Category:Mods|mod pages in the Main namespace.]]

As an aside, it might also be helpful to have a "Utility" namespace for [[Utilities|utilities]], which are in the same boat as mods.

I noticed the DF wiki already has custom namespaces for bloodline games, so hopefully this isn't too much to ask. Thanks!

Oh, and apologies for contacting you via both this and a PM. I sent the PM and then noticed you hadn't logged onto B12 forums in a while, so I didn't know if you'd get it.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a ton! This'll be really helpful. One thing though: the new namespaces don't seem to have [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages subpages] enabled, and a lot of the people currently hosting mods on their talk pages are using subpages. I know people can switch to using categories instead (we may do this), but it's something to consider. Also, this is pure irrelevant nitpicking, but namespace names usually use the singular.

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!

--[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 21:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

== Could you mark me autoconfirmed? ==

Hey, I don't know what the rule is for this, but if I'm not autoconfirmed when you see this, can you mark me as that? The captcha is really annoying when I'm trying to develop the [[Dwarf_Fortress_2010]] page. Thanks! [[User:Mason11987|Mason11987]] 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

== Vandal ==

[[User:173.19.42.186|This guy]] has been adding trash to a bunch of the creature pages. [[User:Quietust|Quietust]] warned him already on his [[User_talk:173.19.42.186|talk page]] for unconstructive edits to [[Scamps]]. One of these edits were undone by [[Special:Contributions/173.19.42.186|you yourself]]. ---[[User:Iban|Iban]] 11:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Gremlin

2010-01-30T11:01:55Z

Iban: The edits being applied are not funny and do not contribute anything. Adding {{D4D}} doesn't help that.

{{CreatureInfo|name=Gremlin|symbol=g|color={{COLOR:2:0:1}}|butcher=no|bones=4|fat=1|skin=Yes|skulls=1|chunks=4|meat=4|biome= * [[Chasm]]}}

'''The Gremlin''' is a little mischievious critter that lives near [[chasm]]s. They can avoid [[trap]]s and, in previous versions, liked pulling [[lever]]s. They can live up to 1000 years old and even though they don't have a [[pet]] [[tame|value]], they are exotic pets.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:GREMLIN]
[NAME:gremlin:gremlins:gremlin]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[LOCKPICKER][TRAPAVOID][MISCHIEVIOUS]
[GENPOWER:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:mischief]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:LIBERALISM:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ORDERLINESS:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:DUTIFULNESS:0:25:50]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Humanoids]]

40d:Legendary artifact

2010-01-29T20:58:41Z

Iban: /* Usage */

Dwarves in [[strange mood]]s will create '''legendary artifacts''', unique, "named" items which are of unsurpassable quality (and often [[value]] as well). An artifact is the ultimate expression of a [[dwarf]]'s desires, fears, memories and hopes in art form, and each dwarf will produce at most only one in their lives (or [[insane|die]] trying). Dwarves that create an artifact immediately gain enough [[experience]] to boost them to [[legendary]] level in the affected [[moodable skill|skill]] unless they were [[Strange_mood#Possessed|possessed]].

Dwarves drop artifacts in the [[workshop]] as soon as they are made. They cannot be traded, but can be used just like any item of its type, except for clothing and with some limitations to armor and weapons (see below). A list of all artifacts that the fortress has created can be seen by pressing {{k|l}}.

Artifacts cannot be destroyed unless lost in a [[chasm]] or dropped to the [[magma]], though the heat generated by a [[Spirit of fire]] seems to be able to melt artifacts not made from [[magma-safe]] materials. They ''can'' be stolen by [[thieves]]; an artifact lost to you will have a note to that effect in the Artifacts screen ( {{k|l}} ), and give a ''very'' bad [[thought]] to the creator.

__TOC__

==Construction==
Dwarves will normally use anywhere from one to ten items in their construction. If you view ({{k|q}}) the [[workshop]] a dwarf has seized while the dwarf is in it, you can see what materials he or she plans to use (see [[strange mood]]s for further details). Once the dwarf has started to construct the artifact, you can also use {{k|t}} to see exactly what materials have been tasked (although some may be tasked to be [[haul]]ed away).

It's worth noting that artifacts ''can'' be made out of materials that normally could not produce the base [[furniture]] or item in question. For example, you may get [[platinum]] [[armor]], [[stone]] [[bed]]s, or even [[gem]] [[furniture]]. Further, these artifacts could be produced in workshops by professions that could not normally build such an item, such as a bone door being made by a [[bonecarver]] in a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]].

Workshops which normally require [[fuel]] (a [[forge]] or [[glass furnace]]) do not require and will not use fuel to make an artifact at that shop. Magma versions which lose power, however, will immediately cause the moody dwarf's mood to end (with [[insane|disastrous consequences]]).

====Decoration====
Artifacts will automatically have one "free" [[decoration]] of the same material as its base material. For instance, a "Perfect Ruby" might have "Images of mangrove trees in Ruby". This decoration doesn't consume additional materials: in the above example, only one ruby was used.

Item types which normally require multiple objects to create (such as Platemail) will cause the moody dwarf to acquire that number of objects, but each such object will also contribute a decoration - basically, the item receives multiple free decorations. For example, artifact gold platemail will use a minimum of 3 objects (3 bars of gold), and have 3 gold decorations.

Decorations are sometimes simple rings or spikes, or shapes or images (often drawn from [[preference]]s of the creator), or events in the history of the fortress or [[legend|world history]].

====Value====
Artifacts can range in value from 2,400☼ (all-stone furniture or finished good) to 7,200,000☼ (full-decorated adamantine Platemail). Since [[immigration]] totals are, among other factors, based on your fortress's "Created Wealth" (and held/worn items count double in the total), expensive artifacts are often the driving factor behind how many immigrants show up in the first years.

It has been reported that artifacts can occasionally glitch in the number of materials needed, with a corresponding increase in value (eg, [[Planepacked|this monstrosity]]).

==Quality==
When an artifact's details are viewed, all "craftsdwarfship" will ''always'' be listed as being "of the highest quality". Artifact items have a [[Item quality|value modifier]] of 120×. This is applied on top of the item's [[item value#Base values of items|base value]], its [[decoration]]s and the value of all [[item value#Material multipliers|material]]s used in its construction.

Artifact [[armor]] and [[weapons]] have at least the damage/protection modifier of [[Damage#Item_quality|masterful]] (×2.0) quality items. Many players suspect it's (much) higher, but this has yet to be confirmed one way or the other. ''(Needs more research*.)''

:''(* The problem is that only a [[hero]] ("Great" [[skill]] level) or legendary [[champion]] can wield an artifact weapon, and even just a masterful ''silver'' weapon (with a relatively low [[damage|damage multiplier]]) in the hands of such a hero will insta-kill or dismember almost anything it hits with one strike - so, since an artifact weapon is significantly '''better''' than that, how does one tell the difference, much less quantify it? Who can tell the difference between "dead" and "doubly dead"? (It's possible that such a difference would only be discernible against [[megabeast]]s, whales and other huge creatures.) For similar reasons, it's also unclear whether an artifact weapon of a [[Damage#Material_damage_modifiers|lesser material]] is better than a normal-quality adamantine one (at least a 4:1 material value multiplier).)''
:''With regards to artifact armor, without tedious combat logging of the highly-random combat system, again, it's very difficult to tell whether a strike that bounces off artifact armor would not have been blocked by masterful steel, etc. etc.''

==Usage==
[[Image:Artifact_Storage.png‎|thumb|left|"Finished Goods" artifacts have no use whatsoever other, and will only serve to raise your Fortress' worth (which has some benefits).]]
Artifacts of types which can be built ([[furniture]], [[animal trap]]s, [[chain]]s, etc...) can be used as normal. [[Weapon]]s can be built into traps in the room. [[Mechanism]]s can become [[trigger]]s or other mechanism-appropriate buildings. Often artifacts of this nature are used to meet noble room requirements or establish high-quality dining halls as a single artifact is typically capable of bumping a room up to [[Room#Specific_room_quality_grades|royal quality]] on its own; however, a particularly poor artifact may turn it to at least [[Room#Specific_room_quality_grades|grand]]. Object types which are used for storage in stockpiles ([[bin]]s, [[barrel]]s) will be used by your dwarves without regard to their status.

Artifacts which are [[crafts]] or [[clothing]] cannot be so used, nor will a stockpile that contains them count toward room value.

Object types which require a dwarf to wear or use the item will generally not be used by your dwarves, with the exception of artifact weapons and armor, which can only be used by [[Hero#Heroes_and_Champions|heroes and champions]].

====Artifact Weapons & Armor====
Artifact weapons and armor will only be equipped by [[Soldier#Heroes and Champions|heroes and champions]] (even if they are novice in the artifact's weapon skill). This means that an artifact axe can be wielded by an Axe Lord but cannot be used for woodcutting, as a dwarf that reaches Elite status can never return to civilian life. Similarly, an artifact pick will never be used by your miners.

Be warned that when a dwarf equips an artifact, '''he will never drop it''' {{version|0.28.181.40d}} - artifacts can not be marked for dumping, and changing the weapon or armor setting in the military screen won't help either. Items held are dropped when dwarves lose consciousness; you may wish to set up a simple cave-in trap. Your only other options are to get really lucky and have it wrestled out of his hand in combat, or for the dwarf to be killed.

A dwarf may carry around several artifact weapons in each hand {{verify}} {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. <s>Of course, you might not see a champion [[swordsdwarf]] wielding eight artifact [[adamantine]] scimitars as a bad thing</s>.

Actually, Holding 8 [[adamantine]] scimitars is probably the worst thing ever as the hero/champion is probably holding 7 in one hand thus making the weapons useless.

----

'''See also:'''
*[[Moods]]
*[[Item value]]

[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Lore]]

40d:Wrestling

2010-01-26T16:36:45Z

Iban: /* Weapon or Shield */

The text below applies to using wrestling in [[Adventure Mode]]. Wrestling in [[Fortress Mode]] is presumed to use the same mechanics, although the player has no direct control over how the wrestling is performed.

== Initiating wrestling ==

While standing next to an opponent, the "Attack" key {{K|Shift}}+{{K|a}} by default will give you a list of targets, and allow you to switch modes by pressing {{K|Enter}}.
Press enter until you are in wrestling mode, then chose your opponent as you would for a normal attack.
You should now be on the wrestling screen ready to initiate a wrestle.

== Wrestling screen ==

The wrestling screen is divided into the current holds at the top of the screen and the wrestling options at the bottom.

== Current holds ==

The current holds are displayed at the top of the screen in the following format

You <Your Limb> <direction> <Hold Type> <direction> <Their Limb> Them

the two direction symbols are always either pointing from you toward them to indicate that you are holding them, or from them toward you, indicating that they are holding you.

The Hold Type progresses from holds to locks, and the limbs includes all sorts of limbs appendages, and also weapons.

== Wrestling Techniques ==

=== Getting Hold of Someone ===
To grab a body part, you have to be standing next to your target.

#Press {{k|Shift}} + {{k|A}} to open the attack dialog.
#Press {{k|Enter}} to switch to the wrestling menu.
#Use arrow keys to highlight your target and press {{k|Enter}} to open the detailed wrestling dialog.
#Use arrow keys to highlight which part of the enemy you want to grab with what grasper. If you do not see any options in this dialog (especially if you're using a non-standard Adventurer class or modded game), it means your adventurer's race has no graspers (hands, in other words) and it cannot wrestle.
#Your character will then attempt that move. If you fail, you will be notified. This counts as an attack and, as such, your enemy will attempt to counter-attack you.

=== Head ===
Attempting to grip your enemy's head using an empty hand has one major advantage over the other body parts: you are able to then gouge out their eyes. A blind enemy almost entirely defenseless (granted, there are occasions where a heavily bleeding, blinded marksman will fire a random shot that kills you instantly). If you are in a pinch and are just trying to dispatch of one creature, this is a highly effective maneuver as a blind enemy cannot stop you from [[Ambusher|sneaking]] if you out of the 8-Square area they can feel around in.

The other options allow you to "pinch" aspects of their head (ears, nose, etc) but those are pretty weak movies that only cause pain, which can cause the enemy to pass out without actually dealing limb damage.

=== Throat ===
Strangulation is another fantastic method of killing your opponent. If already unconscious or stunned, you can seize the opportunity and begin choking them to death by first grasping their throat. You do not need to continually order your adventurer to strangle your enemy, a standard attack will continue to crush their windpipe.

'''Note'''
*Strangling your enemy will crush their throat. This will cause their death to be from bleeding out.
*Once you have moderately damaged their windpipe, you can just hold down the {{k|.}} key until they suffocate.

=== Joints ===
If you have an enemy wielding a weapon you would prefer they did not, you can literally break their arm to disable their attacks. Simply grab their hand (you can use the {{k|l}} key to check out which hand is holding the offensive device - characters are ambidextrous and it is a 50/50 gamble as to which will have it), then "lock" their hand, and then break it. If you have a low wrestling skill, you may need to try and break it more than once.

=== Other Parts ===
Almost all parts have the option to "throw" and "knock down." Throwing slams your opponent into a nearby wall if there is one {{verify}}, while knocking them down shoves them to the ground, giving you a significant offensive advantage over them. Both give the chance to stun, which can allow you to either continuing (and uninterrupted) pounding, or strangulation.

=== Weapon or Shield ===
If you are an effective wrestler, there is the chance you can just disarm your enemy altogether. Assume you were in a scenario where 3 enemies are brandishing weapons. It is inefficient to try and take them on one-by-one. Even trying to blind your enemy requires 3 moves (or more, if you miss). However, you can quickly disarm enemies by simply go into the wrestling menu and scroll down until you see the enemy's actual weapon (along with the rest of their inventory, if you want to be a loincloth snatcher). You can then attempt to grab it '''if you have a free hand'''. To disarm them, simply move away. If you're successful, it will say: "You maintain possession of ''Their Weapon''." At that point, its yours to use. Very enjoyable to club an archer to death with his own silver bow.

== Training strategies ==

You can train up quickly by breaking a zombie's limbs, then choking it repeatedly. Take a break from time to time, because you will get tired. (Oddly enough, walking will cause you to become less tired.)
Alternatively you can train wrestling along with your weapon skill by doing a single takedown, or breaking a single joint before finishing an enemy.

== Wrestling strategies ==

If your enemy is wielding a weapon, it is a good idea to break his weapon arm.

Knocking them down without breaking their legs is rather sneaky, as you can wait for them to get up, then charge at them again and keep alternating moves.

You can also use it to grab worn items (including weapons) to prevent them being used against you, and even snatch them away. Beating an [[undead]] pike master with his own weapon is always fun. (Press "shift + i". It displays the inventory. Select the object written in red : It is the one that both you and your opponent are holding) NOTE: This is only possible with a free hand. If you are already holding, say, a crossbow, and attempt to wrest said undead pike master's pike away, you will not be able to take it from it.

Due to a bug in the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you can {{k|r}}emove several things from your backpack into your hands, allowing you to use each held item to grab at an opponent, essentially giving you an extra limb to grapple with.

== What grabs do ==

Breaking joints disables limbs and does not cause bleeding.
* Arm will stop the opponent from using that arm to attack (at least effectively)
* Leg will cause the opponent to fall to the floor and dramatically reduce their movement speed
* Strangling an opponent damages the throat location. A red throat injury is a mortal wound which will inevitably cause the victim to bleed to death. Also makes them winded, which lowers movement speed and may cause suffocation.
* Gouging eyes out will cause incredible pain as well as blinding opponents or at least greatly reducing accuracy and vision. (also causes heavy bleeding)
* Pinching will cause pain/unconsiousness to an opponent without wounding them. You can pinch any part of an opponent, as long as you are using a hand to grab that part.

{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|+ '''How To Hurt People Limb By Limb'''
|- style="background: grey; color: black;"
! Limb !! Held By !! Grip Actions !! Lock Actions
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Head || Hand || Pinch, Gouge,Take down || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Neck || Any || None || Strangle
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Arm || Any || Throw, Take Down || Break Shoulder
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Arm || Any || None || Break Elbow
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Hand || Any || None || Break Wrist
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Leg || Any || None || Break Hip
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Leg || Any || None || Break Knee
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Foot || Any || None || Break Ankle
|}

== Changes in the future ==

[[Toady One]]'s mentioned that the system's going to be changed at some point; I can only assume (without looking at his dev/bloat lists) that means the menu will be changed so have you to work by the limb you want to use and the part you want to grab in turn, not all in a list at once. There's the promise of 'dirty' moves he mentioned too, such as slitting your foes throat. That one I’m looking forward to most. I mean... err...

I hope that helps you some.

[[Category:Guides]]

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

40d:Gremlin

2010-01-25T14:45:34Z

Iban: Creature has [MISCHIEVIOUS] tag. They will pull levers.

{{CreatureInfo|name=Gremlin|symbol=g|color={{COLOR:2:0:1}}|butcher=no|bones=4|fat=1|skin=Yes|skulls=1|chunks=4|meat=4|biome= * [[Chasm]]}}

'''The Gremlin''' is a little mischievious critter that lives near [[chasm]]s. They can avoid [[trap]]s and like pulling [[lever]]s. They can live up to 1000 years old and even though they don't have a [[pet]] [[tame|value]], they are exotic pets.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:GREMLIN]
[NAME:gremlin:gremlins:gremlin]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[LOCKPICKER][TRAPAVOID][MISCHIEVIOUS]
[GENPOWER:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:mischief]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:LIBERALISM:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ORDERLINESS:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:DUTIFULNESS:0:25:50]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Humanoids]]

40d:Wrestling

2010-01-24T01:21:14Z

Iban: /* Weapon or Shield */

The text below applies to using wrestling in [[Adventure Mode]]. Wrestling in [[Fortress Mode]] is presumed to use the same mechanics, although the player has no direct control over how the wrestling is performed.

== Initiating wrestling ==

While standing next to an opponent, the "Attack" key {{K|Shift}}+{{K|a}} by default will give you a list of targets, and allow you to switch modes by pressing {{K|Enter}}.
Press enter until you are in wrestling mode, then chose your opponent as you would for a normal attack.
You should now be on the wrestling screen ready to initiate a wrestle.

== Wrestling screen ==

The wrestling screen is divided into the current holds at the top of the screen and the wrestling options at the bottom.

== Current holds ==

The current holds are displayed at the top of the screen in the following format

You <Your Limb> <direction> <Hold Type> <direction> <Their Limb> Them

the two direction symbols are always either pointing from you toward them to indicate that you are holding them, or from them toward you, indicating that they are holding you.

The Hold Type progresses from holds to locks, and the limbs includes all sorts of limbs appendages, and also weapons.

== Wrestling Techniques ==

=== Getting Hold of Someone ===
To grab a body part, you have to be standing next to your target.

#Press {{k|Shift}} + {{k|A}} to open the attack dialog.
#Press {{k|Enter}} to switch to the wrestling menu.
#Use arrow keys to highlight your target and press {{k|Enter}} to open the detailed wrestling dialog.
#Use arrow keys to highlight which part of the enemy you want to grab with what grasper. If you do not see any options in this dialog (especially if you're using a non-standard Adventurer class or modded game), it means your adventurer's race has no graspers (hands, in other words) and it cannot wrestle.
#Your character will then attempt that move. If you fail, you will be notified. This counts as an attack and, as such, your enemy will attempt to counter-attack you.

=== Head ===
Attempting to grip your enemy's head using an empty hand has one major advantage over the other body parts: you are able to then gouge out their eyes. A blind enemy almost entirely defenseless (granted, there are occasions where a heavily bleeding, blinded marksman will fire a random shot that kills you instantly). If you are in a pinch and are just trying to dispatch of one creature, this is a highly effective maneuver as a blind enemy cannot stop you from [[Ambusher|sneaking]] if you out of the 8-Square area they can feel around in.

The other options allow you to "pinch" aspects of their head (ears, nose, etc) but those are pretty weak movies that only cause pain, which can cause the enemy to pass out without actually dealing limb damage.

=== Throat ===
Strangulation is another fantastic method of killing your opponent. If already unconscious or stunned, you can seize the opportunity and begin choking them to death by first grasping their throat. You do not need to continually order your adventurer to strangle your enemy, a standard attack will continue to crush their windpipe.

'''Note'''
*Strangling your enemy will crush their throat. This will cause their death to be from bleeding out.
*Once you have moderately damaged their windpipe, you can just hold down the {{k|.}} key until they suffocate.

=== Joints ===
If you have an enemy wielding a weapon you would prefer they did not, you can literally break their arm to disable their attacks. Simply grab their hand (you can use the {{k|l}} key to check out which hand is holding the offensive device - characters are ambidextrous and it is a 50/50 gamble as to which will have it), then "lock" their hand, and then break it. If you have a low wrestling skill, you may need to try and break it more than once.

=== Other Parts ===
Almost all parts have the option to "throw" and "knock down." Throwing slams your opponent into a nearby wall if there is one {{verify}}, while knocking them down shoves them to the ground, giving you a significant offensive advantage over them. Both give the chance to stun, which can allow you to either continuing (and uninterrupted) pounding, or strangulation.

=== Weapon or Shield ===
If you are an effective wrestler, there is the chance you can just disarm your enemy altogether. Assume you were in a scenario where 3 enemies are brandishing weapons. It is inefficient to try and take them on one-by-one. Even trying to blind your enemy requires 3 moves (or more, if you miss). However, you can quickly disarm enemies by simply go into the wrestling menu and scroll down until you see the enemy's actual weapon. You can then attempt to grab it. To disarm them, simply move away. If you're successful, it will say: "You maintain possession of ''Their Weapon''." At that point, its yours to use. Very enjoyable to club an archer to death with his own silver bow.

== Training strategies ==

You can train up quickly by breaking a zombie's limbs, then choking it repeatedly. Take a break from time to time, because you will get tired. (Oddly enough, walking will cause you to become less tired.)
Alternatively you can train wrestling along with your weapon skill by doing a single takedown, or breaking a single joint before finishing an enemy.

== Wrestling strategies ==

If your enemy is wielding a weapon, it is a good idea to break his weapon arm.

Knocking them down without breaking their legs is rather sneaky, as you can wait for them to get up, then charge at them again and keep alternating moves.

You can also use it to grab worn items (including weapons) to prevent them being used against you, and even snatch them away. Beating an [[undead]] pike master with his own weapon is always fun. (Press "shift + i". It displays the inventory. Select the object written in red : It is the one that both you and your opponent are holding) NOTE: This is only possible with a free hand. If you are already holding, say, a crossbow, and attempt to wrest said undead pike master's pike away, you will not be able to take it from it.

Due to a bug in the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you can {{k|r}}emove several things from your backpack into your hands, allowing you to use each held item to grab at an opponent, essentially giving you an extra limb to grapple with.

== What grabs do ==

Breaking joints disables limbs and does not cause bleeding.
* Arm will stop the opponent from using that arm to attack (at least effectively)
* Leg will cause the opponent to fall to the floor and dramatically reduce their movement speed
* Strangling an opponent damages the throat location. A red throat injury is a mortal wound which will inevitably cause the victim to bleed to death. Also makes them winded, which lowers movement speed and may cause suffocation.
* Gouging eyes out will cause incredible pain as well as blinding opponents or at least greatly reducing accuracy and vision. (also causes heavy bleeding)
* Pinching will cause pain/unconsiousness to an opponent without wounding them. You can pinch any part of an opponent, as long as you are using a hand to grab that part.

{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|+ '''How To Hurt People Limb By Limb'''
|- style="background: grey; color: black;"
! Limb !! Held By !! Grip Actions !! Lock Actions
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Head || Hand || Pinch, Gouge,Take down || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Neck || Any || None || Strangle
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Arm || Any || Throw, Take Down || Break Shoulder
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Arm || Any || None || Break Elbow
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Hand || Any || None || Break Wrist
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Leg || Any || None || Break Hip
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Leg || Any || None || Break Knee
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Foot || Any || None || Break Ankle
|}

== Changes in the future ==

[[Toady One]]'s mentioned that the system's going to be changed at some point; I can only assume (without looking at his dev/bloat lists) that means the menu will be changed so have you to work by the limb you want to use and the part you want to grab in turn, not all in a list at once. There's the promise of 'dirty' moves he mentioned too, such as slitting your foes throat. That one I’m looking forward to most. I mean... err...

I hope that helps you some.

[[Category:Guides]]

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

40d:Wrestling

2010-01-24T01:19:26Z

Iban: /* Wrestling Techniques */

The text below applies to using wrestling in [[Adventure Mode]]. Wrestling in [[Fortress Mode]] is presumed to use the same mechanics, although the player has no direct control over how the wrestling is performed.

== Initiating wrestling ==

While standing next to an opponent, the "Attack" key {{K|Shift}}+{{K|a}} by default will give you a list of targets, and allow you to switch modes by pressing {{K|Enter}}.
Press enter until you are in wrestling mode, then chose your opponent as you would for a normal attack.
You should now be on the wrestling screen ready to initiate a wrestle.

== Wrestling screen ==

The wrestling screen is divided into the current holds at the top of the screen and the wrestling options at the bottom.

== Current holds ==

The current holds are displayed at the top of the screen in the following format

You <Your Limb> <direction> <Hold Type> <direction> <Their Limb> Them

the two direction symbols are always either pointing from you toward them to indicate that you are holding them, or from them toward you, indicating that they are holding you.

The Hold Type progresses from holds to locks, and the limbs includes all sorts of limbs appendages, and also weapons.

== Wrestling Techniques ==

=== Getting Hold of Someone ===
To grab a body part, you have to be standing next to your target.

#Press {{k|Shift}} + {{k|A}} to open the attack dialog.
#Press {{k|Enter}} to switch to the wrestling menu.
#Use arrow keys to highlight your target and press {{k|Enter}} to open the detailed wrestling dialog.
#Use arrow keys to highlight which part of the enemy you want to grab with what grasper. If you do not see any options in this dialog (especially if you're using a non-standard Adventurer class or modded game), it means your adventurer's race has no graspers (hands, in other words) and it cannot wrestle.
#Your character will then attempt that move. If you fail, you will be notified. This counts as an attack and, as such, your enemy will attempt to counter-attack you.

=== Head ===
Attempting to grip your enemy's head using an empty hand has one major advantage over the other body parts: you are able to then gouge out their eyes. A blind enemy almost entirely defenseless (granted, there are occasions where a heavily bleeding, blinded marksman will fire a random shot that kills you instantly). If you are in a pinch and are just trying to dispatch of one creature, this is a highly effective maneuver as a blind enemy cannot stop you from [[Ambusher|sneaking]] if you out of the 8-Square area they can feel around in.

The other options allow you to "pinch" aspects of their head (ears, nose, etc) but those are pretty weak movies that only cause pain, which can cause the enemy to pass out without actually dealing limb damage.

=== Throat ===
Strangulation is another fantastic method of killing your opponent. If already unconscious or stunned, you can seize the opportunity and begin choking them to death by first grasping their throat. You do not need to continually order your adventurer to strangle your enemy, a standard attack will continue to crush their windpipe.

'''Note'''
*Strangling your enemy will crush their throat. This will cause their death to be from bleeding out.
*Once you have moderately damaged their windpipe, you can just hold down the {{k|.}} key until they suffocate.

=== Joints ===
If you have an enemy wielding a weapon you would prefer they did not, you can literally break their arm to disable their attacks. Simply grab their hand (you can use the {{k|l}} key to check out which hand is holding the offensive device - characters are ambidextrous and it is a 50/50 gamble as to which will have it), then "lock" their hand, and then break it. If you have a low wrestling skill, you may need to try and break it more than once.

=== Other Parts ===
Almost all parts have the option to "throw" and "knock down." Throwing slams your opponent into a nearby wall if there is one {{verify}}, while knocking them down shoves them to the ground, giving you a significant offensive advantage over them. Both give the chance to stun, which can allow you to either continuing (and uninterrupted) pounding, or strangulation.

=== Weapon or Shield ===
If you are an effective wrestler, there is the chance you can just disarm your enemy altogether. Assume you were in a scenario where 3 enemies are brandishing weapons. Simply go into the wrestling menu and scroll down until you see the enemy's actual weapon. You can then attempt to grab it. To disarm them, simply move away. If you're successful, it will say: "You maintain possession of ''Their Weapon''." At that point, its yours to use. Very enjoyable to stab a club an archer to death with his own silver bow.

== Training strategies ==

You can train up quickly by breaking a zombie's limbs, then choking it repeatedly. Take a break from time to time, because you will get tired. (Oddly enough, walking will cause you to become less tired.)
Alternatively you can train wrestling along with your weapon skill by doing a single takedown, or breaking a single joint before finishing an enemy.

== Wrestling strategies ==

If your enemy is wielding a weapon, it is a good idea to break his weapon arm.

Knocking them down without breaking their legs is rather sneaky, as you can wait for them to get up, then charge at them again and keep alternating moves.

You can also use it to grab worn items (including weapons) to prevent them being used against you, and even snatch them away. Beating an [[undead]] pike master with his own weapon is always fun. (Press "shift + i". It displays the inventory. Select the object written in red : It is the one that both you and your opponent are holding) NOTE: This is only possible with a free hand. If you are already holding, say, a crossbow, and attempt to wrest said undead pike master's pike away, you will not be able to take it from it.

Due to a bug in the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you can {{k|r}}emove several things from your backpack into your hands, allowing you to use each held item to grab at an opponent, essentially giving you an extra limb to grapple with.

== What grabs do ==

Breaking joints disables limbs and does not cause bleeding.
* Arm will stop the opponent from using that arm to attack (at least effectively)
* Leg will cause the opponent to fall to the floor and dramatically reduce their movement speed
* Strangling an opponent damages the throat location. A red throat injury is a mortal wound which will inevitably cause the victim to bleed to death. Also makes them winded, which lowers movement speed and may cause suffocation.
* Gouging eyes out will cause incredible pain as well as blinding opponents or at least greatly reducing accuracy and vision. (also causes heavy bleeding)
* Pinching will cause pain/unconsiousness to an opponent without wounding them. You can pinch any part of an opponent, as long as you are using a hand to grab that part.

{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|+ '''How To Hurt People Limb By Limb'''
|- style="background: grey; color: black;"
! Limb !! Held By !! Grip Actions !! Lock Actions
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Head || Hand || Pinch, Gouge,Take down || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Neck || Any || None || Strangle
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Arm || Any || Throw, Take Down || Break Shoulder
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Arm || Any || None || Break Elbow
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Hand || Any || None || Break Wrist
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Leg || Any || None || Break Hip
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Leg || Any || None || Break Knee
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Foot || Any || None || Break Ankle
|}

== Changes in the future ==

[[Toady One]]'s mentioned that the system's going to be changed at some point; I can only assume (without looking at his dev/bloat lists) that means the menu will be changed so have you to work by the limb you want to use and the part you want to grab in turn, not all in a list at once. There's the promise of 'dirty' moves he mentioned too, such as slitting your foes throat. That one I’m looking forward to most. I mean... err...

I hope that helps you some.

[[Category:Guides]]

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

40d:Wrestling

2010-01-23T04:10:34Z

Iban: /* Wrestling technique */

The text below applies to using wrestling in [[Adventure Mode]]. Wrestling in [[Fortress Mode]] is presumed to use the same mechanics, although the player has no direct control over how the wrestling is performed.

== Initiating wrestling ==

While standing next to an opponent, the "Attack" key {{K|Shift}}+{{K|a}} by default will give you a list of targets, and allow you to switch modes by pressing {{K|Enter}}.
Press enter until you are in wrestling mode, then chose your opponent as you would for a normal attack.
You should now be on the wrestling screen ready to initiate a wrestle.

== Wrestling screen ==

The wrestling screen is divided into the current holds at the top of the screen and the wrestling options at the bottom.

== Current holds ==

The current holds are displayed at the top of the screen in the following format

You <Your Limb> <direction> <Hold Type> <direction> <Their Limb> Them

the two direction symbols are always either pointing from you toward them to indicate that you are holding them, or from them toward you, indicating that they are holding you.

The Hold Type progresses from holds to locks, and the limbs includes all sorts of limbs appendages, and also weapons.

== Wrestling Techniques ==

=== Getting Hold of Someone ===
To grab a body part, you have to be standing next to your target.

#Press {{k|Shift}} + {{k|A}} to open the attack dialog.
#Press {{k|Enter}} to switch to the wrestling menu.
#Use arrow keys to highlight your target and press {{k|Enter}} to open the detailed wrestling dialog.
#Use arrow keys to highlight which part of the enemy you want to grab with what grasper. If you do not see any options in this dialog (especially if you're using a non-standard Adventurer class or modded game), it means your adventurer's race has no graspers (hands, in other words) and it cannot wrestle.
#Your character will then attempt that move. If you fail, you will be notified. This counts as an attack and, as such, your enemy will attempt to counter-attack you.

=== Head ===
Attempting to grip your enemy's head using an empty hand has one major advantage over the other body parts: you are able to then gouge out their eyes. A blind enemy almost entirely defenseless (granted, there are occasions where a heavily bleeding, blinded marksman will fire a random shot that kills you instantly). If you are in a pinch and are just trying to dispatch of one creature, this is a highly effective maneuver as a blind enemy cannot stop you from [[Ambusher|sneaking]] if you out of the 8-Square area they can feel around in.

The other options allow you to "pinch" aspects of their head (ears, nose, etc) but those are pretty weak movies that only cause pain, which can cause the enemy to pass out without actually dealing limb damage.

=== Throat ===
Strangulation is another fantastic method of killing your opponent. If already unconscious or stunned, you can seize the opportunity and begin choking them to death by first grasping their throat. You do not need to continually order your adventurer to strangle your enemy, a standard attack will continue to crush their windpipe.

'''Note'''
*Strangling your enemy will crush their throat. This will cause their death to be from bleeding out.
*Once you have moderately damaged their windpipe, you can just hold down the {{k|.}} key until they suffocate.

=== Joints ===
If you have an enemy wielding a weapon you would prefer they did not, you can literally break their arm to disable their attacks. Simply grab their hand (you can use the {{k|l}} key to check out which hand is holding the offensive device - characters are ambidextrous and it is a 50/50 gamble as to which will have it), then "lock" their hand, and then break it. If you have a low wrestling skill, you may need to try and break it more than once.

=== Other Parts ===
Almost all parts have the option to "throw" and "knock down." Throwing slams your opponent into a nearby wall if there is one {{verify}}, while knocking them down shoves them to the ground, giving you a significant offensive advantage over them. Both give the chance to stun, which can allow you to either continuing (and uninterrupted) pounding, or strangulation.

== Training strategies ==

You can train up quickly by breaking a zombie's limbs, then choking it repeatedly. Take a break from time to time, because you will get tired. (Oddly enough, walking will cause you to become less tired.)
Alternatively you can train wrestling along with your weapon skill by doing a single takedown, or breaking a single joint before finishing an enemy.

== Wrestling strategies ==

If your enemy is wielding a weapon, it is a good idea to break his weapon arm.

Knocking them down without breaking their legs is rather sneaky, as you can wait for them to get up, then charge at them again and keep alternating moves.

You can also use it to grab worn items (including weapons) to prevent them being used against you, and even snatch them away. Beating an [[undead]] pike master with his own weapon is always fun. (Press "shift + i". It displays the inventory. Select the object written in red : It is the one that both you and your opponent are holding) NOTE: This is only possible with a free hand. If you are already holding, say, a crossbow, and attempt to wrest said undead pike master's pike away, you will not be able to take it from it.

Due to a bug in the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you can {{k|r}}emove several things from your backpack into your hands, allowing you to use each held item to grab at an opponent, essentially giving you an extra limb to grapple with.

== What grabs do ==

Breaking joints disables limbs and does not cause bleeding.
* Arm will stop the opponent from using that arm to attack (at least effectively)
* Leg will cause the opponent to fall to the floor and dramatically reduce their movement speed
* Strangling an opponent damages the throat location. A red throat injury is a mortal wound which will inevitably cause the victim to bleed to death. Also makes them winded, which lowers movement speed and may cause suffocation.
* Gouging eyes out will cause incredible pain as well as blinding opponents or at least greatly reducing accuracy and vision. (also causes heavy bleeding)
* Pinching will cause pain/unconsiousness to an opponent without wounding them. You can pinch any part of an opponent, as long as you are using a hand to grab that part.

{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|+ '''How To Hurt People Limb By Limb'''
|- style="background: grey; color: black;"
! Limb !! Held By !! Grip Actions !! Lock Actions
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Head || Hand || Pinch, Gouge,Take down || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Neck || Any || None || Strangle
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Arm || Any || Throw, Take Down || Break Shoulder
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Arm || Any || None || Break Elbow
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Hand || Any || None || Break Wrist
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Leg || Any || None || Break Hip
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Leg || Any || None || Break Knee
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Foot || Any || None || Break Ankle
|}

== Changes in the future ==

[[Toady One]]'s mentioned that the system's going to be changed at some point; I can only assume (without looking at his dev/bloat lists) that means the menu will be changed so have you to work by the limb you want to use and the part you want to grab in turn, not all in a list at once. There's the promise of 'dirty' moves he mentioned too, such as slitting your foes throat. That one I’m looking forward to most. I mean... err...

I hope that helps you some.

[[Category:Guides]]

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

40d:Wrestling

2010-01-22T11:41:07Z

Iban: /* Wrestling technique */

The text below applies to using wrestling in [[Adventure Mode]]. Wrestling in [[Fortress Mode]] is presumed to use the same mechanics, although the player has no direct control over how the wrestling is performed.

== Initiating wrestling ==

While standing next to an opponent, the "Attack" key {{K|Shift}}+{{K|a}} by default will give you a list of targets, and allow you to switch modes by pressing {{K|Enter}}.
Press enter until you are in wrestling mode, then chose your opponent as you would for a normal attack.
You should now be on the wrestling screen ready to initiate a wrestle.

== Wrestling screen ==

The wrestling screen is divided into the current holds at the top of the screen and the wrestling options at the bottom.

== Current holds ==

The current holds are displayed at the top of the screen in the following format

You <Your Limb> <direction> <Hold Type> <direction> <Their Limb> Them

the two direction symbols are always either pointing from you toward them to indicate that you are holding them, or from them toward you, indicating that they are holding you.

The Hold Type progresses from holds to locks, and the limbs includes all sorts of limbs appendages, and also weapons.

== Wrestling technique ==

=== Head ===
Attempting to grip your enemies head has one major advantage over the other body parts: You are able to then gouge out their eyes. A blind enemy almost entirely defenseless (granted, there are occasions where a heavily bleeding, blinded marksman will fire a random shot that kills you instantly). If you are in a pinch and are just trying to dispatch of one creature, this is a highly effective maneuver as a blind enemy cannot stop you from [[Ambusher|sneaking]] if you out of the 8-Square area they can feel around in.

The other options allow you to "pinch" aspects of their head (ears, nose, etc) but those are pretty stupid.

=== Throat ===
Strangulation is another fantastic method of killing your opponent. If already unconscious or stunned, you can seize the opportunity and begin choking them to death by first grasping their throat. You do not need to continually order your adventurer to strangle your enemy; once you have them in a chokehold a standard attack will continue the strangulation.

=== Joints ===
If you have an enemy wielding a weapon you would prefer they did not, you can literally break their arm to disable their attacks. Simply grab their hand (you can use the {{k|l}} key to check out which hand is holding the offensive device - characters are ambidextrous and it is a 50/50 gamble as to which will have it), then "lock" their hand, and then break it. If you have a low wrestling skill, you may need to try and break it more than once.

=== Other Parts ===
Almost all parts have the option to "throw" and "knock down." Throwing slams your opponent into a nearby wall if there is one {{verify}}, while knocking them down shoves them to the ground, giving you a significant offensive advantage over them. Both give the chance to stun, which can allow you to either continuing (and uninterrupted) pounding, or strangulation.

== Training strategies ==

You can train up quickly by breaking a zombie's limbs, then choking it repeatedly. Take a break from time to time, because you will get tired. (Oddly enough, walking will cause you to become less tired.)
Alternatively you can train wrestling along with your weapon skill by doing a single takedown, or breaking a single joint before finishing an enemy.

== Wrestling strategies ==

If your enemy is wielding a weapon, it is a good idea to break his weapon arm.

Knocking them down without breaking their legs is rather sneaky, as you can wait for them to get up, then charge at them again and keep alternating moves.

You can also use it to grab worn items (including weapons) to prevent them being used against you, and even snatch them away. Beating an [[undead]] pike master with his own weapon is always fun. (Press "shift + i". It displays the inventory. Select the object written in red : It is the one that both you and your opponent are holding) NOTE: This is only possible with a free hand. If you are already holding, say, a crossbow, and attempt to wrest said undead pike master's pike away, you will not be able to take it from it.

Due to a bug in the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you can {{k|r}}emove several things from your backpack into your hands, allowing you to use each held item to grab at an opponent, essentially giving you an extra limb to grapple with.

== What grabs do ==

Breaking joints disables limbs and does not cause bleeding.
* Arm will stop the opponent from using that arm to attack (at least effectively)
* Leg will cause the opponent to fall to the floor and dramatically reduce their movement speed
* Strangling an opponent damages the throat location. A red throat injury is a mortal wound which will inevitably cause the victim to bleed to death. Also makes them winded, which lowers movement speed and may cause suffocation.
* Gouging eyes out will cause incredible pain as well as blinding opponents or at least greatly reducing accuracy and vision. (also causes heavy bleeding)
* Pinching will cause pain/unconsiousness to an opponent without wounding them. You can pinch any part of an opponent, as long as you are using a hand to grab that part.

{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2"
|+ '''How To Hurt People Limb By Limb'''
|- style="background: grey; color: black;"
! Limb !! Held By !! Grip Actions !! Lock Actions
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Head || Hand || Pinch, Gouge,Take down || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Neck || Any || None || Strangle
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Arm || Any || Throw, Take Down || Break Shoulder
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Arm || Any || None || Break Elbow
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Hand || Any || None || Break Wrist
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Body || Any || Take Down, Throw || None
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Upper Leg || Any || None || Break Hip
|- style="background: #eee; padding: 1px;"
|| Lower Leg || Any || None || Break Knee
|- style="padding: 1px;"
|| Foot || Any || None || Break Ankle
|}

== Changes in the future ==

[[Toady One]]'s mentioned that the system's going to be changed at some point; I can only assume (without looking at his dev/bloat lists) that means the menu will be changed so have you to work by the limb you want to use and the part you want to grab in turn, not all in a list at once. There's the promise of 'dirty' moves he mentioned too, such as slitting your foes throat. That one I’m looking forward to most. I mean... err...

I hope that helps you some.

[[Category:Guides]]

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

Category talk:Legends

2010-01-22T09:59:03Z

Iban: Created page with '== Fuck == I went ahead and wrote up the category after looking through the massive category list trying to see if we had something like it. It wasn't until I loaded up [[Cacame_…'

== Fuck ==
I went ahead and wrote up the category after looking through the massive category list trying to see if we had something like it. It wasn't until I loaded up [[Cacame_Awemedinade|Cacame's]] page did I realize we did have something that fit the bill. Please go ahead and delete it. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 09:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Barrel

2010-01-22T07:58:25Z

Iban: Removed the {{verify}} tag as the [PENETRATEPOWER] tag confirms this.

'''Barrels''' are storage units that, like [[bins]] and [[bags]], conserve stockpile space by containing 10 items of the same type (for exceptions, see the ''Mix Food'' and ''Storage Quirk'' sections). They can be made out of [[wood]] or [[metal]]. Making a barrel from wood requires one [[log]], and making a barrel from metal requires three [[bar|bars]] of the same type.

==Specific Uses==
*Stores the following materials:
**[[farming|Plants]]
**[[Seeds]]
**[[Alcohol]]
**[[Extracts]]
**[[fishing|Fish]]
**[[Fat]]
**[[Tallow]]
**[[meal|Prepared meals]]

*Used in the construction of a dyer's shop and the ashery.

==Metal versus Wooden==
'''Metal'''
*A very practical use for bars in overabundance.
*If you're short on wood (due to fortress placement on a [[tundra]], for instance), you can use metal barrels and apply your wood elsewhere.
*Do not catch on fire. If fire is brought to your food stockpile, you can find yourself with a starvation pandemic.
*10x more effective at deterring [[vermin]] that can disgust your dwarves.

'''Wooden'''
*Wood is often more prevalent and easier to obtain than metal.
*Metal barrels require 3 bars, while wooden barrels only need 1 log. This is the main factor as to why wood barrels are the much more popular choice.
*[[Caravans]] do not stock metal barrels.

==Viewing Contents==
To see the '''contents''' of a barrel (or bin), use the {{k|k}} key to open the look menu. Once over the target, use {{k|+}} & {{k|-}} to scroll up or down the tile's list until the barrel in question is highlighted. Press {{k|enter}} to see its contents. If you wish to view a specific item, the same process can be applied to that menu. You can [[forbid|{{k|f}}orbid]]/[[dump|{{k|d}}ump]] a single item only if you are viewing that item's page. If you are still in the menu with the list of the barrel's contents, you will affect the container itself (and, by inheritance, everything inside it).

==Mix Food==
If the "Mix Food" toggle is on (from the {{k|o}}rders menu - default is on), then dwarves will store similar food into the same barrel, resulting in "Plant Barrel", "Meat Barrel", etc. Turning off this toggle will force the dwarves to store food more explicitly ("Plump Helmet Barrel", etc.), demanding more barrels. Turning off "Mix Food" is primarily useful if you have [[stockpile]]s that specialize based on plant type; for instance, a [[pig tail]] stockpile near the weaver, a [[cave wheat]] stockpile near the mill, etc.

==Storage Quirks==
Each barrel normally has a capacity of 10 items. Exceptions are [[alcohol]], where a barrel stores as much as can be squeezed in from a single plant stack, [[seed]]s, which can be stored in bags which in turn are stored in barrels, and [[milk]] and [[lye]], which can hold up to 100 units. If you have a stack of more than 10 items (typically [[prepared meal]]s), it will not be stored in a barrel.

[[Category:Furniture]]

40d Talk:Quest

2010-01-22T04:30:30Z

Iban:

I'm not sure, and it'd be difficult to test, but I think the status you have with an entity may affect the willingness of the more skilled warriors from that entity to join you. This might just be a side-effect of killing powerful monsters though. --[[User:Toastdieb|Toastdieb]] 19:22, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

--One hell of a lot of giants--
I had a really weird experience after a stupid treehugger druid asked me to kill a giant. I went to the cave with my scouting party (some elf warriors and some humans) and found an injured giant. I killed it with ease, but realised that that was not ''the'' giant that I was supposed to kill. I went further in and encountered 2 together. I had some difficulty killing these, and 1 of them killed 2 of my human sidekicks, but eventually they too lay dead. And neither of these was the required giant! I went further in and encountered 2 more. Thankfully the second one was the giant that was bothering the elves.

Wow. 5 giants in a cave. Has anyone else seen this many?--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 04:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Same thing happened to me again, in the same world but a different cave. And this time, there were 2 giants both named Sas!!--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

After a more careful search of the 2nd cave I found 2 more giants, bringing the total in the cave to 7. Whoa!--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 06:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Funny, since I have the opposite problem - I found the cave, but not the dragon. What does one do when the quest monster just isn't home? Travel around and come back? [[User:Frogwarrior|Frogwarrior]] 23:23, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
:I found I had this problem once, I traveled around a bit outside and found the dragon, or rather, it's fire found me. After a single warhammer hit it fell down dead though. I was quite disappointed. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, what do you do if the quest is religious in nature? Got one from a "church" telling me to put my faith in the local diety, and I have access to chatting with said diety, but they say no more. How odd. --[[Special:Contributions/71.112.186.117|71.112.186.117]] 11:04, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
:You haven't embarked on a quest - you've joined a religion. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:09, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
::Ooooooh. Acted like being given a quest, so that was the confusing thing then. I'm left wondering if the diety ever replies. --[[Special:Contributions/71.112.186.117|71.112.186.117]] 13:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
:: I think what Quietust said should be a quote for the main page. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

File:YouHaveBeenShotAndKilled.png

2010-01-19T14:59:13Z

Iban: Best sharpshooter ever.

Best sharpshooter ever.

40d Talk:Tantrum

2010-01-19T13:55:24Z

Iban: /* Tantrum Fail */ new section

== Drafting ==

It seems tantruming dwarves can be drafted and will act completely normally...Has anyone else seen this? My dwarf was already drafted before he was tantruming (I was testing on the destruction of artifacts heh), so maybe it makes a difference, but I was able to deactive/reactive his squad.

== Riots ==

Shouldn't someone edit this page to include the chain reaction of destruction that can cause a whole fortress to tear itself apart? Like when a dwarf gets mad, he destroys the carpenter's shop, the carpenter gets mad, destroys a few tables in the dining room, gets arrested and hammered to death, which makes all his friends go on a rampage and so on. I'd edit it myself, but I have no firsthand experience, and I'm not sure of the odds of something like this happening. ([[Boatmurdered]] is a fine example.) --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:50, 13 January 2009 (EST)

:Done. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 06:51, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Destroying masterpieces ==

I'm pretty sure destroying/losing masterpieces doesn't immediately make a dwarf tantrum. In fact, in dozens of forts, I've never had a dwarf tantrum who wasn't about to die anyway [when a dwarf gets extremely unhappy due to being attacked and then suffering major injuries, when not being particularly happy in the first place.]
But most of my dwarves are always very happy, and I've seen at least a dozen masterpieces get destroyed in various ways, and I get the message and they the unhappy note on their profile, but I've never seen them unhappy enough to tantrum. Can someone else second this? I've read many times that they automatically tantrum; I don't know why I seem to be the only one who doesn't think so.
:Most likely either a flawed assumption or outdated information - you would be correct in observing that destruction of masterpieces causes an unhappy thought and nothing more, but said unhappy thought is easily capable of triggering a tantrum (especially if it's the dwarf's '''only''' masterpiece). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:30, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

== Tantrum Fail ==

I'm pretty bad at keeping dwarfs busy, so everyone is a legendary social elite who knows everyone else. Some dwarf got his head lobbed off because he thought it was a good idea to run past a huge block of Orc invaders to pick up a shoe that one of them had dropped, so now the entire place is shitting itself. I've engraved pretty much every surface, am manufacturing steels statues and lavish meals, and brewing wine as fast as I can. I don't know what else I can do. Heeeelp. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 13:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

File talk:Goblin slaying Mayor.png

2010-01-19T04:08:56Z

Iban: Created page with 'Why do I have a feeling you didn't like that guy and did not expect him to survive? :P --~~~~'

Why do I have a feeling you didn't like that guy and did not expect him to survive? :P --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:08, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Justice

2010-01-19T03:28:57Z

Iban: Reworded some stuff.

'''Justice''' is dealt by your [[Sheriff]] (later [[Captain of the guard]]) or the [[Hammerer]].

Only metal [[cage|cages]] and [[restraint]] can be set to be used for justice, as [[jail|jails]]. Your police force (be it the [[Sheriff]] or the [[Captain of the guard|Captain]] and his [[guard|staff]]) will use them to contain criminals.

The current number of cages/restraints suggested is indicated on the {{k|z}} Status menu, under the Justice tab. That number is one-tenth (10%) the current population, rounded down. Not meeting this number does not cause any negative [[thought|thoughts]] or other instabilities, it is merely a rough estimation of what would be required if things get out of control.

=== Crimes ===
* Building destruction - destroying a [[building]] during a [[tantrum]].
* Disorderly conduct - brawling while throwing a [[tantrum]].
* Violation of work order - a dwarf is punished if you ignore a [[noble]]'s [[mandate]].
* Vandalism - toppling [[furniture]] or [[door]]s during a [[tantrum]].
* Murder - killing a fellow dwarf or a tame [[animal]].

=== Punishment ===
Note, that if the criminal is wounded at the time of the sentence is issued, the punishment will be delayed, until he is healthy again.
* X days imprisonment - the sheriff or fortress guard haul the dwarf off to a [[jail]] to serve his sentence
* Beating - the sheriff or fortress guard attack the dwarf unarmed for a short time
* Hammering - the [[Hammerer]] beats the dwarf with a [[war hammer]], causing death or serious injury

=== [[thought|Psychology]] ===
Crime and justice affects dwarven psychology by generating [[Thought]]s.
* A dwarf who smashes property during a [[tantrum]] will receive a happy thought. This is a major factor in how a dwarf becomes happy enough to stop tantrumming.
* A dwarf who commits a crime, particularly violates a work order, will receive a happy thought if there are not enough jail items to imprison him.
* A noble who makes a [[mandate]] will get a happy thought if it is completed, or an unhappy thought if the worker goes free due to insufficient jail items.

[[Category:Dwarves]]

40d Talk:Engraving

2010-01-19T02:59:15Z

Iban: /* How is history made? */

==Smoothing/engraving vs re-walling==

I started a general page on engraving, mostly to point out that it appears possible to smooth tiles containing ore, since they have been placed in the category of stone now. Haven't tried it on gems, but I'm quite giddy about being able to make an aesthetically pleasing fortress in the middle of an ore vein finally.

:Yes, ore is now exactly the same as regular stone, so it can be smoothed just fine. Make for MUCH nicer fort designs then before. I am not 100% sure but I think gems work the same way too. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 03:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::(For more recent readers, yes, confirmed, they do.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Note also that rewalling allows for even more aesthetic possibility. And you can extract the ore or gem from a wall and then rebuild it with less useful material.
:Except you can't engrave rewalls. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Actually, you can - I did it accidentally when I was smoothing out a plateau for one of my round towers (the fort was called that, might as well put some round towers in :P). Also added in a channel and they did their job before the lazy engraver could haul his arse to do his. In time, I put up a rewall and came back later to find the top of my rewall engraved with blazing suns, dwarves etc. Kinda confused me when I first saw it tho --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:57, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Did you construct these rewalls on top of an engraved floor? That gives the walls the appearance of engraving, but I don't know if it counts as an engraved wall for room value purposes. --[[User:zombiejustice|zombiejustice]] 00:41 2 June 2008 (CDT)

I hit {{K|k}} and everything, looked at my wall, and all it said was "Detailed Obsidian Wall." It doesn't work when I make the walls look like regular walls with lines on them or when I make them have the funky little symbols. My fortress is quite young, but I heard that the engraver can just use his imagination and stuff. What's wrong? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:55, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Hit {{K|k}} and then hit {{K|Enter}}.

:::as of the latest build you cannot engrave a built wall --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

==stone types & happiness?==
Does the type of stone affect Dwarf happiness? Are they happier if their room contains a golden engraved wall? Or even a granite one? And what about the floor? I've just cleaned out a gold vein and I'm thinking about rewalling it into a dinning hall to take advantage of the gold floor. --[[User:Malenfant|Malenfant]] 11:34, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000691 Draxxalon's study] suggests that the stone does have an effect. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 22:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==room value?==
I'm doing a little studying on the architecture value of smoothing/engraving for the current tournament. As far as I can tell, a smoothed wall is worth 8 monies, a smoothed floor is worth 6 monies, and the base value of an engraving is 10 (so an *engraving* is worth 40). The value *DOES NOT* depend on the type of stone, you get the same bonuses even if you smooth/engrave ore. And of course while engravings do have quality, smoothing does not. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:20, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:At one point I noticed a tiny room had an astronomical rent value - turns out the walls were native aluminum (that the game never announced for some reason, and i'd smoothed them without noticing). I mined out the ore and rewalled and the rent dropped substantially. So I'd say ore value matters quite a bit, at least for walls --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Had same thing but with gem floor. About 5 tiles of some x10 value gem floor increased rent from ~2300 (minor noble room) to ~8000. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Quality engravings tell more history ==

When I had my dwarves engrave the history in my story I wrote earlier, they weren't very skilled at engraving. Though my entire fortress had been burnt up by spirits of fire and attacked by goblins a couple years back, only two of thirty engravings depicted a demon and had a story along with it. There were about thirty engravings done, and only three were well-crafted. The three well-crafted included the two about demons, and one that had a fact about my mayor being elected in 1051. The rest, which were normal quality were of pointless designs and creatures never encountered. Quality plays a major role in what is shown in the engraving. I'll add a section about this, does someone know if higher qualities like masterful depict even more?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:51, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:I have no desire to savescum and abandon, but I do find that generic dwarf enrgavings tend to be less quality. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::I checked it out a few times, there's no difference in the history of masterful engravings then there were in well-crafted ones. The only exception is unskillful engravings, they don't tell anything. So it's confirmed then. --[[User:Richards|Richards]] 08:42, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Types of stone ==
I'm pressing {{K|d}} then {{K|e}} and selecting an area, then pressing {{K|Enter}}. But it's not seeming to do anything in most bits of my fortress. (I find this with smoothing as well.) Could this be because they're mudstone? Does engraving only work in certain types of rock? It'd be good to clarify this somewhere. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 08:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

alex: you need to smooth the surface first. currently any stone surface can be engraved. first you smooth it from a rough stone surface with {{k|d}} then {{k|s}} first, then designate it for engraving after it is nice and flat. confused me on my very first fort also. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 05:45, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Engraving Constructed Walls ==

Why can't constructed walls/floors be designated for engraving? Has Toady said anything specific about this, or is it just something we have to deal with? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried smoothing them first? I think they have to be smoothed first, they also must be made out of stone. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::Constructed walls also can't be designated for smoothing. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 03:39, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
I have just had dwarves engrave the floor tile made by the tops of some constructed walls. The engravers were originally ordered to engrave the natural stone walls there, but they were removed before the engravers arrived to make way for a waterfall. When they came, they engraved the floor tile made by the constructed wall on the z-level below.--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 04:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:Suddenly, I am hugely confused. The walls beneath the engravings were removed, and now there are engravings on open space.*makes backup*--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 05:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== Toggled engravings differentiation ==

I noticed in a previous fort (in a previous version) that engraved walls, once I'd toggled off their display, were a different shade to the ones that had only been smoothed. I believe it was smoothed basalt (dark grey), and the engravings were lighter - either mid-grey or white. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yes, I've seen the same thing. Smoothed and Engraved got the same tile, some foreground, different background. Smoothed siltstone was dark brown on black, and hidden-engravings on siltstone was dark brown on grey -- the same grey background as the non-hidden engravings got. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:21, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

== About Defacement ==

Will defacing an *engraved wall* or an =engraved wall= annoy the engraver? I have an enormous legendary dining room that I want to make even more legendary by adding a pair of waterfalls, but I don't want to piss off any of my engravers.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 17:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:Only defacing masterpieces (☼) will cause negative thoughts.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:38, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:: Somehow I think the values for negative thoughts for defacing engravings is wrong, actually. I defaced, in the course of a season, roughly 30 masterpieces (legendary +5 engravers can get DAMN annoying when it comes to where you can build) and he never dipped below ecstatic. He hadn't created an artifact (or been freed) recently, and I don 't think much else should be able to reconcile a supposed 1500 negative thoughts. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:::From what I've read elsewhere, the defacement penalty is 1000 divided by the total number of masterpieces created by that dwarf. So if your legendary dwarf has engraved a thousand or more tiles, he'll have made hundreds of masterpieces and the "travesty" over each will only be a few points.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:58, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::::I coulda sworn it was 50 per masterpiece... Ah well. Thanks for the tip. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Maximus is right, for what it's worth. Just a few days ago I inadvertantly told my miners to deface 5 masterpieces of one of my legendary engravers. He'd been with my fortress for many years (i think 5) and had hit legendary about 3 years prior. He's definitely engraved over 100 masterpieces; it may be 250 or more, really. The engraver barely noticed the 5 defacements. He was still ecstatic when I checked him, just chilling out in the statue garden and chatting with a friend. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:45, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Goblins can destroy engravings? ==

:''A masterful engraving that is destroyed or defaced (mining, magma, tower caps and goblins do the job nicely...''

News to me.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:44, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Engraving under siege ==

I assume that these battles depicted are actually over, but the whole siege isn't. So it will show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Flowers Treesunshine, the Elf. Which has already happened, but it won't show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Violet Lovefest, the Elf. Which hasn't happened, but is going to happen. So really, engraving under siege doesn't engrave any different than engraving after any other battles. Unless it does actually do the latter. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:That particular bit of information was added a few months ago by Eerr([[User talk:Eerr|Talk]]) and was cut out without any verifying, I thought it was interesting so I added it back in. Feel free to change any wording you think is deceptive to what you know is true.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 20:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Snow-covered Open Space ==

I dug a Pillar out of the mountain and detailed it. After it collapsed during a cave-in the place where the floor on the top was before, now was detailed open space. Still showing the same engraving as before but in blueish color.
[[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 13:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

I've had many miners beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after having had my miners remove engravings that I decided I didn't want there because I wanted to continue building past them. Unless you have a better reason for why these miners were suddenly listed as needing to be beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after they destroyed the walls I think that's pretty well verifiable.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, but do they get punished for words that are less than masterwork quality?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::My miners never get punished, no matter how many masterful engravings they deface. I have Justice in full effect. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== How is history made? ==

I don't get what causes dwarves to write what. This one masterwork really irked me. It says...

<blockquote>
Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of a orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. The orc is falling.
</blockquote>

This seems pretty standard, but there is a 20-Z pit in my fortress that has collected about 5 army's worth of dismembered-from-impact orcs. Is this where the dwarf got his inspiration? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 21:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. If you turn on SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE in init.txt, you'll be able to see exactly '''which''' orc is being depicted in the engraving and when it died, though since orcs don't have names, it'll probably come out something like "Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of the orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. Is falling. The artwork relates to the collision of the orc with an obstacle in [fortress name] in the [season] of [year]." --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
::That's very awesome. Thanks man. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 02:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Engraving

2010-01-18T21:54:55Z

Iban: /* How is history made? */ new section

File talk:Palace of Seducing.PNG

2010-01-18T21:48:59Z

Iban: Created page with 'There is so much wrong with this. --~~~~'

There is so much wrong with this. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 21:48, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Clothing

2010-01-18T21:44:15Z

Iban: /* Rags to Riches */

== masterpiece disintegration ==
Does masterpiece clothing disentigration still cause the maker to get all pissy over it?

If so, then it needs to be added to the article. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:31, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I've seen a few artifact articles of clothes in the game, but I have never seen anyone wear them. It could be that the game avoids this question. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 20:24, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

:My clothing industry has been running nonstop with 7 dwarves for many years (at least 10). They are all legendary or very nearly there in every clothing ability (besides strand extraction). At this point I've gotten 4 or so 'lost masterpiece' messages concerning my clothing dwarves, particularly the two who got legendary first, via artifacts. It would be extraordinarily improbable for a kobold thief to make it in and out of my fort undetected (my meeting area is in the 3 wide entrance, so a thief has to make it in when nobody happens to be there, which never seems to happen, what with 25+ hungry mouths and the aristocracy up to and including the queen) -- and it would say 'theft' not 'lost' anyways. I believe the only reason I haven't received many more such messages is because the dwarves aren't putting on the masterwork clothes -- I guess they don't see a point in being non-nudist in a desert.

A related question is whether one would get multiple unhappy thoughts from a masterfully dyed, woven, and sewn article of clothing disintegrating. Or, for that matter, masterfully encrusted as well (gem encrusting has quality, right?). --Wyriel
:Perhaps your dwarves doesn't have enough money to wear masterpiece clothes, so not a lot of them wears and tears out. As for the related question, I do not know at all. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

::Clothing is classed as "armor" (in some parts of the game, at least), and artifact armor can only be worn by... heroes (iirc), so maybe that's the dealbreaker? And the word is "wear", not "disIntEgrate". (& fixed subsection title spelleng.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== mass-produce? discard old clothes? ==
I would like to see something on which clothes players should mass-produce to keep their dwarves happy. I'm really not sure myself. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:37, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: I second this request. Do dwarves automatically discard old clothes? It seems that my dwarves are buying new clothes at the stores, but then they still wear there old rotting trousers. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::In my experience they would discard old socks and boots, but will wear a dosen rotting dresses at once. Maybe some inv slots have limit on the clothes number, and some not? [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I recall a post on the forums that said it's best not to produce clothing at all, and start a dwarven nudist colony. That method is a simple solution that prevents unhappy thoughts from accumulating. I don't think it maximizes happiness, though, as Dwarves get happy thoughts from making satisfying acquisitions. [[User:Non|Non]] 03:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:: No good idea. Not having clothes gives an unhappy thought for every separate piece of clothes missing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::not so. dwarves get(used to, removed this version) an unhappy thought for LOSING each piece of clothing, but once its gone(or if they started with none) there is no unhappy thought. they are perfectly fine and happy being naked, once the sadness of rotting clothes wears off --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::: I once had the thought "XY was embarrassed to have no shirt lately". cant swear if he had one before that thought or not, but dont rotting clothes give a different thought "emb. about...clothes rot away"? It still might be that he gets that thought only once. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Artifact Cave Spider Silk Thong ==

All right, given that you probably ''are'' going to make exotic underwear with cave spider silk... couldn't it at least be something that the dwarf who made it was going to ''wear'' rather than something which is rare for humans?

Oh well, when my clothier passes over I will have something fantastic to sell which is also very light I guess![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:47, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Why bother? ==

Am I missing something? Is there any reason at all to provide new clothes for dwarfs? --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 09:27, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:You mean other than the fact that if old clothes start to rot the dwarf wearing said clothing gets an unhappy thought? I highly doubt that's been removed since the last version I was semi-familiar with. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 13:52, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Ah. Well, I built a HUGE dining room. Its taken two years to fully smooth it, but now any dwarf who eats instantly becomes either ecstatic, happy, or, if they're whole family was killed and they had to sleep on the ground by the rotting corpses, they might just be content. Wow, writing that once again reminded me how totally R rated this game would be if it were 3d. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::BDR- it was taken out in the latest release because of problems. Once it works right, Toady said he was going to bring it back, but for the current version and immediate future, clothes are just a waste of effort.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 16:36, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::: Here I have a massive clothing industry sitting idle, unemployed dyers starting fights, and dear Toady is off figuring out how many ribs dwarves have and whether skin can be flayed. My civilization yearns to be built on green silk cravats, not the torturer's arts. :) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 17:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, there's still the awesome value of having your dwarves swank around in fancy clothes. Plus adamantine clothes provide more protection than most pieces of more conventionally-manufactured plate-level armour if I'm not mistaken, which might prove worthwhile if you happen to strike adamantine and only have legendary clothiers.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:40, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Hahaha, I have to note here that there is one very, very practical reason to give your dwarves clothes: If it's cold and they have body parts exposed, they will freeze, and the nerve damage from this is permanent. My glacial fortress suffers from chronic brainfreeze epidemics in babies and soldiers, and they don't even get to eat any ice cream. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:45, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Frequency ratings ==
How common is common? It seems like every goblin invasion has had about 4 or 5 iron masks, about 50% of goblins, so it doesn't seem like they are that uncommon. Is this on the threshold of uncommon? Do others get this many masks? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:11, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I've been playing for a couple months, and I've never seen one. So, uh, maybe it's something to do with the specific culture of the goblin civilization that's attacking you. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:01, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::That would make sense, I might start a new fortress else where, and see if I get as many. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Separating ==

Is there anyway to separate dwarf-sized clothing from goblin & kobold sized clothing? I've been messing with my stockpiles, but can't seem to sort them out. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:14, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I've been working under the assumption that the {{key|u}} usable and {{key|j}} unusable toggles on many of the stockpile pages provide this functionality. I ''think'' it works, but I generally don't really pay that much attention to such matters... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 11:59, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Clothing appears to be sorted as a "finished good" though, which doesn't have those toggles. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:56, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

==Coats Anyone?==
I can't seem to make coats in the latest version (.40d) in either clothiers or leatherworkers, and I haven't seen a dwarf start with a coat in this version yet. Anyone know what's going on? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:36, 25 November 2008 (EST)

:I've had no problem with that in 40d. They wear coats when they arrive (unless they're wearing a robe instead), I can produce them, and they'll put on new coats if their coat or robe wears out.

:There used to be a note somewhere that not all forts/civs can produce the same clothing. Maybe that's what's at work?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:02, 25 November 2008 (EST)

::The possible types of clothing for civs are in the entity_default.txt file, and are selected for each individual civ (or site, even, not sure) in that 'finalizing uniforms' step near the end of world gen. I'm not sure if the climate of the civilization's cities has any effect on this determination, but they definitely will have a limited selection instead of being able to make anything on the entity_default list. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:39, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== Seperating Dwarves from Rotten Clothing ==
I noticed my dwarves' clothing was wearing out, and started using all that nice fabric I'd been buying from the elves for years to replace it. My dwarves don't seem to care all that much... Some of them have picked up a few new things(no economy) but none of them have ditched any of their old stuff. I have dwarves wandering around wearing three pairs of socks, two ruined, one not. I even tried marking stuff for dumping but they don't give a damn; maybe I don't have to if they don't, but it bugs me. How do I get rid of the ruined clothes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:55, 10 December 2008 (EST)

:[[!!]]?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:48, 10 December 2008 (EST)
::Killing everyone with fire would destroy the clothing, yes. But would also kill everyone with fire. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:38, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::Yeah, I know. But I enjoyed typing it all the same. ;-) --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:24, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:Only way to do this is to mark their stuff for dumping. They'll then realize they're naked and will (eventually) go buy/obtain new clothes. I know exactly how you feel, my Captain of the Guard was getting negative thoughts from having her clothing fall apart and I kept wishing she'd just go replace her outfit. She was still ecstatic, but when a dwarf with maxed out stats that's a legendary Pump Operator, Wrestler, Marksdwarf, and Hammerdwarf gets negative thoughts, I get worried no matter what the circumstances are. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:43, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Marking items owned by a dwarf for dumping does not cause them to dump the item. In fact, if the dwarf owns it you have no control over what they do with it. Similarly, they will ignore any attempts to forbid the item and continue wearing them. They will, however, put on new clothes over their rags, which should stop them from being naked when the old ones disintegrate. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)

::Interesting. This means the Hammerer, when he arrives, does not own his Hammer, since you can dump it. :) "Tool of the state" indeed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:13, 19 December 2008 (EST)

:::I think you might be wrong Squirrelloid, I use dumping to change armor all the time. If you Dump then forbid the item at the same time then they wont dump it because they aren't allowed to interact with it. Double check to make sure you just dumped the item.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 05:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Dwarves do not own their armor. Dwarves will never dump or stockpile an object that is owned by one of your dwarves. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Do they still get negative thoughts from wearing decaying clothing? I haven't seen any in 40d. I used to see such thoughts a lot back when I was heavy into the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:43, 12 December 2008 (EST)

==Is there ANY difference?==
there seem to be many redundancy between types of clothing. EG:
Pants, Skirt, Short skirt, Long skirt all fill the same functional roll.
now I can understand Pants vs Skirts for flavor reasons, but does the type of skirt do ANYTHING?
This problem exists for many categories. Please help me understand.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 05:06, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

: Nope, no difference. Its pretty much like real life in that respect. Why would you expect a long skirt to do something different then a normal or short one? [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::Eeem..have you been to real life lately? A short skirt can make a '''huge''' difference ;) Who knows, maybe it already affects DF romances XD --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 21:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

::: Really? The two inch difference between a short DWARF skirt and a long DWARF skirt hugely matters? Remember their legs are only like 2 feet long };-). Anyway, yeah, its just a flavor thing, variety is the spice of life and all that. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 21:37, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Now i could be boring and point out that a smaller person also puts more weight into smaller differences, but meh - i'll just say good riposte ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== Clothing rotting away outside==

I have observed that my dwarves keep their old X<clothes>X around. Do these eventually find some way out of my fortress? Like, will they eventually just rot away on their own? or do i need to put them outside for them to rot completely, (like bones). Or is there some other way of dealing with these old clothes that nobody wears anymore? --[[User:Dissimulation|Dissimulation]] 23:08, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
:Once they become XX<clothes>XX, your dwarves will move them to a refuse stockpile, where they eventually disappear. You can speed up the process by using [[magma]] or a [[chasm]], or by trading/offering them to merchants. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 00:52, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

== Rags to Riches ==

All of my dwarves have tattered rags hanging off their limbs, yet there is a perfectly good stockpile of commandeered clothing laying around. Any reason why they don't want it? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 10:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:You might have to wait for the economy to activate, at which point they'll buy new clothes. If your economy is already active, then make sure you have some clothing stores so your dwarves can go shopping. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, I'm probably never going to get an economy because I have such a narrow focus on completing whatever super structure/deathpit I'm interested in at the moment. Rarely do I order the construction of stuff. Unless there is some sort of automated goods system I am overlooking, it's a depotism 4 lyf. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 21:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Clothing

2010-01-18T10:58:09Z

Iban: /* Rags to Riches */ new section

40d Talk:Wound

2010-01-18T07:33:26Z

Iban: /* Wound Cheat Sheet */ new section

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I had a miner who was wounded in a mine collapse lie where he fell for a long time before someone came to pick him up, even after prioritizing that a single peasant would do nothing but Health Care. I had even made sure that the Health Care dwarf had "likes doing stuff for others" in his profile/thoughts. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:40, 25 March 2009 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, have you seen where his injury is? It could be a nervous injury, which never heals (see the wound article, its really sad).

i have a similar problem, my legendary miner broke his head and upper arm in a cave in. now he's just sitting there.
unfortunately he is in the path of my lva moat that he was diging. will he ever be moved into a bed or something. will he recover? should i open up the lava waterfall and let him die with honor

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
: I only had this once when I started a fortress in a desert without any water resources. Maybe this is a hack to prevent dwarves from dying from thirst? [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:20, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
: I believe every season there is a chance of a red wound healing. Perhaps he had extraordinarily high toughness and you got lucky? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 19:53, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

(a non tough dwarf healed yellow in 2 days before even sitting in his rest bed -
we need to revisit the info here) [[ User:Höhlenschreck]]

Did a season change in those 2 days? Does this actually contradict the model we currently have?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:No. 
:Not entirely. 
:Just pointing out that healing may have become faster or different. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 16:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed that alot of my people with nervous damage have alot higher wrestling skill than their assigned weapon.. is it possible that people with nervous system damage spar as wrestlers still?--sindain

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I've got a war dog with lightly-wounded right lung, left lung, and heart. From combat (with a kobold thief), not from temperature exposure. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:I have a guard who's doing the same. Red lung wound and he's still trying to make his rounds as a guard. On the other hand, his toughness seems to be high enough that he's not dying from it... He rested when he was initially wounded (sparring) but got up because he was thirsty. He fell unconscious once in the process, but managed to slake his thirst. And then got up and grabbed his equipment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::FWIW, this guard lasted two more years limping along with a red lung until he finally died making a suicidal charge during a goblin siege. Îton Koganûker earned himself his own little decorated burial niche for his hardheaded service. Incidentally, I looked back at him and he actually had not toughness mods, so a regular dwarf survived three years with a red lung and might have survived longer if not for the charge. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have an ex-guard with a red lung injury. He's been that way for about 4 years so is it possible that lungs can't heal? At first he passed out a lot from being winded but after training him up as an engraver to improve his toughness he's able to go about a normal dwarven life. I've had a lot of odd injuries in this fortress; two guys lost both eyes somehow. One of them, a champion, seemed unperturbed by this and went on with his job for about a year until a goblin bowman took him out with a lucky shot. The other was a hunter and spammed up the announcements with "cancelled job: unconcious". He had to be... disposed of. Later, after accidentally releasing a caged titan in my entrance hall, my bone carver got a mangled stomach and lower body. I was preparing for him to die but amazingly he recovered his stomach in a season but it took him a lot longer to heal his other injury. Finally, one of my champions managed to break his lower back while sparring. I've provided him with a nice hospital where he can be looked after for the rest of his days but I fear one day he'll go beserk due to loneliness and boredom. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 19:24, 11 February 2009 (EST)

This is caused by some problem with the bed they are placed on. Removing the bed they are on seems to fix the problem for me everytime it happens. --[[User:Engy|Engy]] 22:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
:I came here because of an identical issue with my swordmaster's right lung. He rested for a moment, but got up and is just "toughing it out" making his rounds, but unwilling to spar. Does your comment mean this issue can be fixed by removing all barracks beds, and his bedroom, and replacing them? Also, would some kind of note, perhaps in a standard "Caveats" section be appropriate? --[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 10:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I have 3 dwarves who are very injured, and seem to be refusing to move, I deactivated their squad status, but none are unconcious, and none of the dwarves at ALL are helping them for some reason, they just keep walking over them, ignoring them.

I have a royal guard with a similar problem. Was wondering if it would ever heal, but I'm starting to think after more than two years that lung injuries also never heal. Mine has at least one level of toughness, though, and the only affect is that he walks slightly slower and flashes the wounded signal at me.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 08:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)

I had a dwarf with a broken leg fall into a strange mood. He got up off his sickbed, limped to a workshop, claimed it, etc. -- all at a fraction of normal dwarf walking speed. He finished the artifact, then went back to his sickbed to finish healing. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Broken brain? ==

I just got a kobold trapped in my hall of spiky death, and on its wound list was a yellow(broken) brain. I suppose that means it's going to die very soon, but it seems to be fine to me... --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 18:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's a kobold. You missed all its vital spots. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:53, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack ==
I have a dwarf with a lopped off left eye and right eye (and throat? how's he still suffering??) that is convinced that he's still under attack.
He's litterally spamming with over 1000 messages that he's canceling rest: interrupted by goblin crossbowman. In the 200-300 message range it was amusing. At this point, I'm only hoping that he shuts up when another dwarf drags him off to a bed for some rest. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 14:29, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
:Put him out of his misery. In style. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:43, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::How? The last of the goblin ambushes for that season shut him up for me. But I don't know how to kill off one of my own dwarves. Well... not intentionally anyway. Especially when he's so busy being unconsious that he's constantly interrupting his rest due to the memory of being shot at by a goblin. I think he got up to about 3000 messages. All his minor wounds healed up too. His head was still mangled (red) with his eyes & throat lopped off (grey). Well, until the goblin finished him off anyway. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 22:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:::For future reference, you can kill one of your dwarves off by dropping a constructed floor on him. Thus, it makes some sense to make bedrooms with a way to drop floor tiles on the beds. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Two words: Lava. Failing that, I usually went with GreyMaria's method and just tunnel out over the head of the wounded dwarf, and built/demolished floors atop him until dead. Too bad you can't build on bridges...I'd have an infirmary kept niiice and warm by a lava pit. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:47, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::LOL I wish! Poor guy collapsed above ground, about 7 steps away from the entrance to the fortress. And as for dealing with any other dwarves... I've found the lava, but they're pretty stubborn about not wanting to dig anywhere near it anymore. These bunch also seem to be only seasonal-miners too. They practically refuse to dig durring the winter & are reluctant to dig in the fall. Which leaves me to spring & summer for any fortress improvements that don't involve construction or engraving. They like farming and they like engraving. Canceling those tasks doesn't even seem to encourage them to dig. They'd rather sit around with no job than go dig out rooms near the lava. Boy, ya loose 1 dwarf to a random fire-man and the dig designations never get worked on! [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 00:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::The simplest method I've found for silencing Dwarves (Usually to put them out of their misery) is to have the a room of hospital beds connected to a pump with a nearby water source (aquifer or brook, usually). In the event that a dwarf has permanently debilitating wounds, you can simply flood the room. Even a normal door will hold back 7/7 tiles of water, so all you have to do is lock them in to make sure no other dwarves decide to open it. [[User:Xennith|Xennith]] 10:45 AM, 2 March 2009 (PST)
: As fun as it is to off wounded dwarves [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.0 this thread on the message board] alleges that destroying the bed may end the message spam. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: Thanks for the link. I'd post there but for some odd reason my browsers won't let me register on that forum. I keep getting redirected back to the index. I can't even read the help on registering because that also redirects me back to the index. Regardless, you are correct that in my case the dwarf had not reached a bed. I think in my case it was that the goblin crossbowman that had attacked that dwarf, had later fallen into a cage trap and hadn't been killed (or left the map) yet. I've a bit of a backlog on goblins waiting to use my drowning rooms.
::: to off yer dwarf, you can put a door on their bedroom and lock em in when they sleep--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 14:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

==Animal Wounds==
How fast can animals (e.g. leopards) heal wounds? Because I have a leopard which has minor injuries on the brain, heart, lungs and guts, and I want to use it to guard my fort (i feel like im gonna be sieged soon).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm fairly certain animals can only be healed via the animal caretaker labor. I had a cat with a mangled leg for 3 years before it stumbled into a weapon trap full of looted pikes. If the creature isn't assigned to anyone, the dwarf that trained the leopard can caretake it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've never studied the mechanics of animal caretaking, but I've gotten the impression that it's a "free" task -- any time your caretaker crosses paths with a wounded animal, the animal has a chance to get better. Try turning on caretaking on all your dwarves. The leopard might need to be uncaged in order for the caretaking to take place.

:But a guardian leopard alone is not going to be enough against a siege. For that, you want at least a dozen wardogs, or a set of traps at least six deep at all entrances (ten deep if they're "mere" stone traps), or some decent marksdwarves -- five or more is best, because at just the wrong moment, half of them will wander off to drink or sleep (or reload). A single champion with top-quality armor and weapon and very high shield user, armor user, and wrestling skills can potentially take out a whole squad by him or herself, but that takes about two or three years worth of sparring (with another champion) and you better hope they don't get spinal injuries or they'll stop training altogether.

:Barring that, use dogs if you got 'em, traps if you don't. And build traps anyway. You can secure a fortress in a couple of months using a couple of mechanics. And you won't get hit by an actual goblin siege until you have 80 dwarves, supposedly, though "ambushes" of about 8 goblins can come much sooner.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I did get sieged, but my army decimated the ugly gobbos before they could even come close (theres a load of blood near the norhern edge now) so the leopard was of no use. Talking of ward dogs, being an idiot, I went and made most of my dogs available for pets before I realised that pets cant be trained. Luckily a pair of stray puppies grew up a day before the siege but the two war dogs which i trained were too slow and the battle was over before they reached. About the animal caretaker, I do have one but he isn't really doing anything about the leopard (and a fox which i also bought from the elves, also with same injuries) --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 23:51, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain from my experiences that animal caretaking only applies to animals that 'belong' to the caretaker. The only dwarf with any skill in caretaking I've had has been my dungeon master because he has trained over a dozen wardogs that haven't been assigned elsewhere yet. Meanwhile my champions have wardogs and cats that have been mangled for years. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I've seen animals on chains healed -- by whom, I don't know. It may just be that dwarves are more likely to heal their own pets since said pets are always in their vicinity.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Apparently any caged animal you buy has minor wounds on the brain, heart, lungs and guts. I bought a jaguar, another leopard and a rhesus from the elves and all have the same injuries.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 21:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::I bought a black bear cage and it didn't have any wounds, could it be that the elves are traveling through a hostile region to reach your fortress? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Are you in a cold region? Maybe they got frostbitten on the trip to the depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

*sorry to interrupt*
i have a war dog with a red (mangled?) 'right rear leg' and 'head'. it's been like that for about a year now, crawling aruond the fortress and sitting where it's former master died (with it's/another dog's two puppies, might i add), passing out all the time. will it die soon? infact, shouldnt it be dead already, having a mangled head? (no internal organs seem to be damaged)

== Down, but not Out ==

Something I noticed earlier today: Late in my first winter, one of my dwarves was injured while sparring with swords. His leg was yellow, no blood anywhere to be seen, and he was literally right next to a bed. He would not accept any jobs, wouldn't climb into bed to rest, eat, drink water, and nobody else would help him. He lay on the floor for a few months until he got really dehydrated and fell unconscious. Finally somebody drug him to the bed and is now bringing him water. I also noticed that "He is socially crippled by thoughts that everybody is watching and judging him" in his profile. Too mistrusting of help until he is unable to say no (finally fell unconscious). I'm hoping for a full recovery now that he is accepting help. [[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 18:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:I have had this problem too...I think it is bug 360? I lost a legendary wrestler to melancholy from it already, another one is now affected by it -- I hope he collapses and gets dragged to a bed like yours did before he goes insane too.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 20:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)

== '' verify '' ==
'' so claiming it may help, as may marking it to be dumped.(verify) '' this most definitely worked, in a most excellent manner. now my most non-non-non-heinous speardwarf can recover. Note that I had to de-forbid it first, and then mark it for dumping. has anyone else had any experience with this? also, I still do not know if he will recover, we will have to wait.--(the most non-heinous)[[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:49, 27 December 2008 (EST)(be excellent to each other)

:this worked for me, too. I also don't know whether he'll recover yet, but the bolt is out of his arm. --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 01:11, 5 March 2009 (EST)

::Worked all the way. Legendary carpenter was up and running around, eating up all my wood again. Really quickly, too (maybe a month or two game time? This after lying in bed for almost 2 years). --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 10:08, 6 March 2009 (EST)

:::i'll edit the page accordingly then [[User:Kotekzot|Kotekzot]] 17:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? ==

I have a dwarf who got his hand bitten off and his upper and lower body broken. After a year or so he was completely healed, albeit still handless. He still hasn't gotten out of bed, though. Will he ever recover, or is this a bug?--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 05:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
: Maybe try deconstructing the bed in question, as above? (Next release will bring doctors and splints, apparently; maybe lopped off limbs will be colored purple or something other than another shade of lightly wounded gray...) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
::Lopped off eyes don't prevent people from running around. Miner took a fire imp to the face. Broke hus upper body. Ouch. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== No sparring for nervous wounds, but hunting allowed? ==

Seems like you can turn your melee dwarves with mild spinal injuries to hunters and they will practice that way ;) Although it is rather a waste of time if they are not at least very agile [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Lopped off limbs ==

I've a wrestling champion who, unfortunately, lost his entire left leg to a swordsgoblin's first strike, and is now bedridden.

It's not covered very clearly in the article just how badly lost limbs affect dwarves. I'd rather not kill him off (he happens to be quite popular), but I don't think he'll ever be getting out of bed again. If anyone has any evidence pointing to the contrary, I'd appreciate it.

For now, I'll just back up the save and lock him up. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 07:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Suffocation Mishaps ==

I just had a highly decorated Swordsdwarf suffocate to death, out of the blue, right after my military had repelled two back-to-back goblin ambushes.

I read in the Mods section that "super-dwarfs" can choke to death if modded so they can eat bones. I haven't made any such mods, however, and I can't find anything on the Wiki about what causes suffocation, apart from smoke (no fires here...)
He suffocated in a 2x2 barracks where two other dwarfs were sparring.

Any ideas? - [[User:Abkajud|Abkajud]] 04:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
*He probably had a sparring accident that punctured both of his lungs. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, good God! Well, thanks for the tip ^_^ - [[User:Abkajud|Abkajud]] 04:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

== Blindness ==

The leader of my squad of axe-dwarves took some damage in a recent fight, including the loss of both eyes and ears. All injuries healed within the day except for the eyes (she is "very tough"), so I demobbed her. Later I noticed she had been trying to cut down the same tree for about half an hour real time despite being a "talented" wood cutter (this is df_28_181_40d11).

Two questions: does blindness heal naturally, at season-change (with luck) or never; and is it known what types of tasks can and can't effectively be done by a blind dwarf? [[User:Hv|Hv]] 08:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
:Blindness never heals, though I haven't observed it to interfere with workshop activities - one of my 3 tanners got both of his eyes torn out by a wolf early in the fortress, and while he initially passed out a lot, he eventually leveled his toughness up high enough that he doesn't notice it anymore, and he performs his tasks just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks. She is my only Appraiser too, and she still manages just fine at trading - I guess you really can ''feel'' the quality. :) [[User:Hv|Hv]] 20:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

== Organ wound not possible ==

In reference to a "moderate wound to the gut", see this forum discussion:
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44204.0 "Impossible Gut Injury?"] --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:04, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

== On the subject of broken body parts and permanent damage ==

Hi, all! I have a few tiny questions and odd things I'd like to mention.

First, it does seem possible for eyes to be broken, at least in the most current version. [http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/A-chana/Dwarf%20Fortress/52.png This cougar] suffered that amongst other nasty things, but my dwarf didn't stop to ask it how many fingers he was holding up, so I still don't know the effects on vision or if such a wound is permanent (see third question). For the record, it got this way by being attacked by an unarmed dabbling/novice wrestler. I think the left eye was sent into dark yellow in one of the first strikes of the fight, and stayed that way until the dwarf pummeled the cougar's unconscious body for a while (it was one of the last few blows dealt to the cougar).

Second, does the lower body mean anything in terms of walking? I had a berserk dwarf try to take down an experienced founder, and he came away with a broken lower body (hips, legs, and spine were not wounded). He could still run about just as well as the fleeing civilians (he was merely Agile, no Toughness, and most of the other civs had some experience. Plus, he became tired while murdering the second victim but didn't seem too affected by it) and was able to take down four with no trouble before a war dog decided to wreck him. He was enraged at one point while fighting the founder, but came down from that high before he could get to work on beating down a much weaker migrant. I'm not sure if the lower body doesn't affect walking, if berserk dwarves will ignore certain injuries, or some combo of the two. On a similar subject, if the lower body doesn't affect walking, would hips affect it? Part of the massacre involved someone with a mangled hip, and I'm wondering if she could have been able to walk with that.

Third, what other organs can be permanently damaged? That same war dog had gotten to me lightly damaged (probably from temperatures during travel), and it doesn't seem to be recovering any of the wounds. I know the brain, neck, and spine aren't going to heal, but he still has wounded lungs, guts, and heart, so I guess those won't heal either. It's nothing important -- he's still a beast that likes bisecting its foes (like the broken-lower-body dwarf above, who is now severed-lower-body dwarf), but I'm just curious as to what other organs might not heal fully (I'm mostly curious on eyes right now, since they seem like they could be pretty sensitive to being broken/possibly mangled). Also, does severity affect it? I mean, I know lopped off technically counts as a degree of severity and will stick, but still. Example being, an arm (not necessarily an arm -- even internal organs like the spleen count too) is horribly mangled, probably almost to the point of being lopped off. Could it still make a full recovery, even over many, many years, or will it stay permanently slightly damaged, if not in outright sorry shape? (Edit to elaborate: The organ/limb in question would make full recoveries from minor wounds.)

Thanks for helping Again, none of this is ground-breakingly important, but I'm just curious to know. -[[User:A-chana|A-chana]] 16:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

== Executing the Sick ==

My Captain of the Guard and Legendary Miner somehow got her spine snapped like a piece of thatch by the weak-ass mayor (bless her :( ) and now is going to be a burden on the society she served to protect for the rest of her (very long) life. There are also several other injured people from a huge tantrum chain who are also bed-bound.

How would I go about disposing of them?

--[[User:Iban|Iban]] 05:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

: Drown them with water or... magma / release a wild animal near them / do a cave-in on them. The choice is yours. see [[Unfortunate_accident]] for more creative info. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 19:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

:: Thanks for the article. None of those would really fit because most of the sick were housed in their own bedrooms, which are in cramped public areas inaccessible to the magma and water plumbing. The above area was also packed with stockpiles and the like. The solution was to seal the doors to their places so they slowly succumb to starvation and dehydration. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 23:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

== Wound Cheat Sheet ==

I don't know if you guys have any use for this, but here's a nice little spreadsheet I made.

[[Image:WoundCheatSheet.png]]

--[[User:Iban|Iban]] 07:33, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

File:WoundCheatSheet.png

2010-01-18T07:32:05Z

Iban:

User talk:Corc

2010-01-18T04:52:50Z

Iban: /* Thanks for your input in the tweak tile edit discussion */ new section

==Tile Edit Experiments==
Good work!
Be sure to share your discoveries with the rest of the TileEdit group on Rick's page for it, once you've got it well defined. (looks like it should be good enough as is infact)
I'd always wanted to both make a river, and get rid of one with a chasm, but hadn't quite figured out how to do it yet.
Suppose it doesn't help that I prefer maps *without* chasms period -_-; --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:05, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:yeah, I wasn't sure about the etiquette for adding to someone else's page yet --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 19:31, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::The talk/discussion pages of both User pages and sub pages is the perfect place to put information for that user, like I've done here a couple times. Don't worry about being unsure about certain etiquette, it's more the norm than uncommon ;) Furthermore, I suggested an addition to the welcome template to address that specific topic. Unless there's any objections, it should make it into the template sooner than later. Thanks again for being a very helpful new user! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:03, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

==Welcome!==
Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is an impersonal template, so some may not apply to you.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
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* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put an empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki> </nowiki></code> after each line.
* Never, ever, put a question mark in the title of a page. This is not an undoable mistake. The rule list elaborates.
* Most importantly, [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>
 
 
Just a hello, and a particular pointer to the first point ;-)
--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:08, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:OKy doke, I'll keep this here so I can come back to it. I've never done anything on a wiki before :P --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 13:30, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks for your input in the tweak tile edit discussion ==

I was looking out on how to generate a chasm and your post did the trick. <3 --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Eerie glowing pit

2010-01-18T04:28:22Z

Iban: /* About the Pit */ new section

{{spoiler}}

== The Demons ==

How powerful ARE the demons now? I gather that a pit chamber will release piles of them, but how many and how nasty are they all? Wonder if adamantine is really worth it... though if you've planned it out, I suppose it might be. Wonder how many demons a legendary dwarf warrior wielding masterwork adamantine weapons and armor could take out by himself!

:They're as nasty as they used to be. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 11:38, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I had repulsed the initial wave of 1 Daemon and 7 Spirits of Fire by 5 marksdwarves and 4 axedwarves. 2 marksdwarves and 2 axedwarves were Elite in full steel chain/plate, others - on their way to it. Lost all axedwarves and 1 marksdwarf in the process. A few seasons later I thought that there weren't much more daemons and breached the pits in a new spot. By that time I had 3 Champion marksdwarves in Fortress Guard (not controllable at all :( ), ~20 wardogs, 4 other marksdwarves, 2 of which - Elite and 4 axedwarves/hammerdwarves at about 'competent' each. All the civilians (90 of them) were drafted into military with some extra weapons and no armor including ~10 miners from Legendary to novice with picks. The aftermath in the units screen is 16 dead Spirits of Fire including 7 from the initial attack, 10 live and happy Spirits of Fire with '''very''' long names, probably some more Spirits of Fire in ambush/invisible to me state and 5 recruits resting and dehydratated in remote corners of my bedroom area. There were immence lags when my stockpiles cathed fire and it were heavily lagging when I got there in adventure mode. --[[User:Another|Another]] 15:05, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I just recently breached a pit, only to result in my entire fortress virtually being annihilated, 109 military dwarves were killed, including a Hammerlord with a legendary adamantine hammer, a mortally wounded Legendary Captain of the Guard, and the daemons lost only 50 total. --[[User:Naze|Naze]] 23:19, 12 December 2007

:I cleansed a demon pit that included exactly 30 fire spirits and a demon. I built a corridor to the chamber, filled it with spikes and chained them to a lever, with the pull lever/R action. It worked quite well despite the fact that my spikes were melt by the demons as they approached. They eventually had to go through a corridor where marksdwarves were stationned. They killed 5 marksdwarves, and some managed to enter my fortress undetected. I was VERY lucky because the fortress guard was useful! If you disable TEMPERATURE, they will be destroyed with no sweat. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:01, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:If you re-site your barracks to just outside the pits, then your fortress guard will find themselves joining the front line... [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 09:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

: from Lumpen on SomethingAwful: "Last night I cracked into the glowing pits and massacred the demons by filtering them through a massive maze of twisting fortifications through which my legendary siege operators unleashed a hail of over a hundred ballista arrows cranked out by 6 ballistae." So, that could work. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 12:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

:I broke into the pitlast night, and beforeI could close it up, frog demons were across my cut of adamantine viens. I sent very little, but very strong people down there, as I only had about 39 dwarves :D. They killed them no sweat. They had abit trouble with a demon. There was only about 10 of the that came from the pit. I was quick to seal up where the whole where the demons came out of, yet my fortress still being able to get in.

== Magma mini-pipes/vents? ==

Are the magma bits considered unconnected, and thus will cool to obsidian, or are they in effect pipes/vents and will refill via the new code? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 23:29, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:there is no such thing as disconnected magma solidifying. that was added for some reason by someone to the wiki a long time ago but is incorrect. magma that is not connected anything will stay magma forever. the only way to turn it into obsidian is by adding water -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 05:15, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::Although, to be fair, depth 1 magma will cool to, um... air or something. At any rate, if you let it get to depth 1 it evaporates, much like water. Except more frustrating, because it's very slow to begin with.--[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Twas cooling in 2D. And what about refilling?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::What? Magma didn't ever cool in 2D, except for the special event that sometimes occurred on breaching the magma river.
::::ah, the magma river. The name brings back such memories...
::::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rewalling/Flooring ==

If you floor over the glowing pit rather as opposed to rewalling do the demons still spawn? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 18:18, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:No, reflooring still can release demons. Tested the hard way. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Additionally, building walls over every glowing pit tile still releases demons. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

== First encounter ==

A creature I am developing, called the solen, was tested today using these. That is, demons. And the interesting thing is, fourteen have slaughtered--so far--about...

20 tentacle demons, 5 daemons.

Shall I upload pics of the room, its contents, and the glowing pit itself? Also I think this should be moved to ''Eerie Glowing Pit'', as that's what it really is. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 17:21, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:I like the move idea. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Captives ==

what happens if you free the captives in a glowing pit after surviving the demon onslaught? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 02:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:dunno, think they just go around babbling or somesuch :\ --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:32, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::They are all insane, mostly melancholy. If you unhook them, they just act like melancholy dwarves and wander around or throw themselves in the pit. Poor guys :( --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Unchained humanoids? ==

The article talks about caged/chained humanoids.

Well, I have so far breached two pits. One had a floor of caged humanoids. That was the most recent one, which I breached carefully (and with cheating).

The first one, I breached with stairs (which was dumb, because they couldn't be stopped at that point by rewalling). Inside the chamber there were at least 40 '''unchained''' melancholy/crazy humanoids. They immediately started trying to flee, along with the demons. The initial wave of "refugees" lagged my fortress to the pits and back. They were free to begin with.

has this happened to anyone else?
[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 11:35, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, I breached my first pit ever last night. Thing was 4 stories, connected by stairs all the way to the lowest Z-Axis level. 3 floors FULL of Elves and Humans caged/chained. My Fortress pretty much lagged up into infinity at that point. It's gotten a little better, but it's still pretty bad. I appreciate the asthetic value, but good lord I hope Toady changes some of this in the future. Either let SOME of the Humans and Elves vamoose back to wherever they initially came from (I bet it's a funny story how they ended up in a glowing pit being tortured by unimaginable horrors from the deep....), or make a good point out of them trying to get a 10/10 on their headfirst dive into magma. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 00:53, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::They've been driven to insanity and care about nothing anymore. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:28, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::: So how do we get rid of the little lag monsters? Wait, nevermind, the sudden wave of tentacle monsters killing EVERYTHING seems to have been more than adequate. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 02:43, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::::: Well, my tentacle demons killed nothing (apart some marksdwarves), and I still got '''104''' (not kidding, there's more than 5 pages of them in the "u" menu) elves, dwarves and humans babbling around. How am I supposed to kill them all ? Most of them are still in the chamber, and because of the adamantine veins I can't force myself to flood it with magma, create a cave in or something like that. It will be fairly complicated to kill them with the dwarven atom smasher too... Do you have any ideas ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 15:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::[[Ballista]]e --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Time. Leave it a season and they'll all starve or die of thirst. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, they can do that ? Even if it's, err, NPC ? The merchants never die of thirst or starve, for instance. Anyway, it's "great". :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::They can do that! Don't know about diplomats etc, but the chained humanoids - i.e. anything labelled "From the Deep" in the {{K|u}} menu - can definitely starve, as of 40d. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Confirmed. Refugees are physically unharmed but all insane and wearing nothing but filth, blood, and stains. My refugees all died about two months later, all on the same week, except the caged ones. Evidently insanity means forgetting to drink when you're thirsty. The tortured dwarves were laid to rest with proper dwarf coffins by my citizens. The elves...were added to the bonepile. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::I did a few tests and it seems that only tentacle demon pits contain prisoners on every level (along with the depraved engravings and filth, slime, and unknown substances) - frog demon and SoF pits only contain prisoners on the lowest level. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:06, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

== Water? ==

Anybody know if pumping the glowing pit full of water will affect the demons? I've started a fortress to try it out, but it's slow going(I'm really more of a modder as DF goes).
*Demon leaders, frog demons, and tentacle demons can all swim, and spirits of fire are so hot that they'll boil the water from several tiles away, so flooding the pit is all but useless (aside from possibly drowning the chained prisoners). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

== [[Sphere]]s ==
A bit of research has revealed that the actual contents of each level of the glowing pit are determined by the [SPHERE] tags on the [[Demon]] entity (bottom level only) and on the Tentacle Demon/Frog Demon/Spirit of Fire entities (all other levels):

* [SPHERE:FIRE] - ashes + charcoal, pools of magma
* [SPHERE:WATER] - pools of water
* [SPHERE:MUCK] - muddy floors, vermin
* [SPHERE:DEPRAVITY] - engravings of depraved acts, general filth
* [SPHERE:THRALLDOM] - unchained prisoners
* [SPHERE:TORTURE] - caged and chained prisoners, corpses + body parts + chunks + meat + skins on pikes/in cages/on floor, pools of blood
* [SPHERE:DEATH] - engravings of death and suffering, bones, bone meal, skulls on pikes

It's very much possible to combine these spheres in other ways for interesting results - for example, giving a demon both FIRE and WATER spheres will give their pit levels pools of both water '''and''' magma. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== Demon Count ==

In my first fortress to uncover HFS, I got 1 red demon and 20 spirits of fire, while in my current fortress I got 1 red demon and 30 spirits of fire. Trying to figure out exactly what determined the demon count, I took a closer look at the two and discovered that while my current fortress had 3 floors worth of charcoal and ashes above the "torture pit", my last fortress had only 2 such floors - thus, it would appear that each "minion" floor contains ten minion-type demons (or simply causes 10 to be spawned within the entire region the instant the chamber is breached). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Further tests (using Dwarf Companion to remove them all from ambush mode) shows that each level does indeed contain exactly 10 demons, and the bottom floor contains only the red Demon. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

==Spawning?==

Do glowing pits spawn demons? or do they just contain them?--[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]] 23:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
:Open one and find out =) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
::In other words, no, they do not spawn demons. All of the fun is there the instant you open it, and once they're '''all''' dead, you're perfectly safe. Back in the 2D version, it may have been different. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

== Please clarify (article is mistaken, there can easily be more than one pit per region) ==

Ok, if by region you mean the area occupied by the "region" display in the embark screen, this is definately false. I have confirmed it with the site finder. I think probably the word "region" in this article must be refering to something else. Could the author please clarify?--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 14:39, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

== Spoiler ==

Why is this considered a massive spoiler for this game..? {{unsigned|97.89.42.171}}
:Perhaps thinking about that question a bit more would help you find an answer? ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 11:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
:: Nope. I've thought it through, and it seems like another feature to me, albeit a very dangerous one (this is why I asked)
::: It's intended (by the author) to be a surprise for new players, so let's leave it at that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== Pre-killed Demon? ==
Hey yall... I'm relatively new to DF, and I just breached my first Pit. Aside from lagging me to a deeper hell than the Demon's home, when I checked my unit list, I noticed this entry: "Rash Gedorilir, Demon ----- Deceased" I don't recall killing him (considering I ordered all my nearby dwarves to run to a safe point and they're still doing that as I write this, I would recall it) and there are no visible lesser demons. From the look of things, I have a SoF pit, charcoal and ash. There are the prisoners, but where are the guards and why is this all glitchy? Possible answer: I've reclaimed this fortress many times (I'm new, give me a break) and that's caused some other weird glitches (like a couple hundred enemies in my underground river)... any ideas? --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 19:01, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
:If the upper levels were filled with charcoal and ashes, you indeed have [[spirit of fire|spirits of fire]], which would explain why the Demon is already dead - being ridiculously hot (enough to melt Steel and even Bauxite), they have a tendency to set the Demon on fire and kill it before it ever reveals itself to you. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, I see. I also found out why the lesser demons had never revealed themselves; I had never found one. I let a dwarf go down there to clean up (the prisoners, I guess) and he stumbled onto one. The rest are probably there and hiding. At least I'm well-enough sealed off that I'll lose 2 dwarves, tops (the cleaner and the guy who finished the wall holding them back). Still lagged out, though. I've made about 2 "days" in this past hour, probably less. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 19:57, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Scratch the lag, too. I think there might be a glitch in the code for concealment; I was having less lag when the demons were busy slaughtering my cleaner than when they were just lurking. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 20:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

== About the Pit ==

#Can the glowing pit be used as a chasm for dumping objects?
#Can you know if your map contains an EGP without excavating the entire map if you did not have the ini set to reveal such things to you?

--[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Chasm

2010-01-18T04:24:07Z

Iban: /* Creating a Chasm */ new section

==Dumping / Chasm-ing==
I removed the "this is for use on the lowest level of the Chasm" part of the article, because it doesn't seem to be the case. You can set a dump zone over the side of a tower 20 z-levels high and still have the crap land in the chasm, and I don't see why the collapse trick wouldn't work at all levels as well. --[[User:Tallyho|Tallyho]] 07:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

==Pit Chasm==
I've had a chasm in a mountainous area near a volcano which was in fact cylindrical, not shaped like a river at all. It was basically a bore of empty space all the way to the bottom-most level, which consisted of the # chasm squares. In that respect, it looked much like a volcano bore but generally a bit smaller. There were variations in width on different levels of it as well. This led to open cave floor around it on some levels where troglodytes, iron men, giant cave swallows, and caveswallowmen frolicked about. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 08:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Huh, how about that. They're certainly more interesting than they used to be.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 14:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Interesting. Sounds like a magma vent minus the magma. I have a game going in a grassland a few region squares away from a volcano. When I first started the game, I got a message that part of the cavern had collapsed and it zoomed to the magma vent. The vent itself was as you describe--a roughly cylindrical sinkhole of varying widths that went all the way to the bottom. Only in my case, it was full of magma up to the surface, and at lower depths, fire imps, magma men and fire snakes could be seen (Apparently, magma is transparent.) Maybe the game treats magma vents as localized chasms full of magma? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 16:43, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:: That's probably how it was formed, using the same algorithm as a magma vent, but it does appear to be intentional. Perhaps it is indeed meant to be a dead magma vent. That same map has the main volcano magma vent a short distance away. The magma vent was of course shown on the local map when choosing the map location, but the circular chasm was not.
::As for the collapse message when starting on a map with a magma vent, that appears to be due to a bug where a body of water is generated in the middle of it. This water instantly creates a solid block of obsidian with no support, which then collapses. Magma is semi-liquid, and fireproof monsters like those you mention will swim freely through it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 17:06, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Actually there are two variants of the chasm, a chasm vent/pit and a chasm/river star like chasm (encountered this one twice, and it really fucked up the level). Perhaps we should works this into the article. Perhaps we should ad screenshots. I sadly have no save with the star river like chasm anymore (abandoned those). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 18:45, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm playing a fortress right now with the same type of "pit" chasm. I'll see if I can get a shot of it to add to the page. --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 19:08, 7 November 2007 (EST)

==Surface / embark map view ==
Are the surface chasms visible from the map when selecting the site? It would be great to get a screenshot of that for the page to look similarly to the volcano page. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 02:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:They're not visible until you actually embark. Same thing for kobold caves. However, if they reach the surface at all, you can see every single tile they contain right away.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:05, 19 November 2007 (EST)

==Cliff as indicator==
I don't think that chasms are the only things that can produce 20+ cliffs. I have a fortress now that is right on the edge of a massive cliff.--[[User:Zonhin|Zonhin]] 19:39, 18 December 2007 (EST)

: They aren't. Those cliffs appear rather often around true volcanoes and mountain peaks. Chasms just happen to be VERY common in mountain region tiles at embark, as much so as small brooks/rivers in certain other regions.

==Tributary chasm==
I have a pretty oddly shaped chasm, or at least i think i do. It starts from the corner of the map in a river like shape, then it splits off into 5 smaller 'fingers.' I've mined alot of the rock around it; it has a wide assortment of metals, gems, and stone i havent seen anywhere else on the map.--[[User:Hiho216|Hiho216]] 00:58, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:Apparently, you have a chasm that got the same code as a river source/delta, as that creates the same sort of 'fingers.'--[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:34, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Cave spider spawning==
The article says that cave spiders "Often cave spiders are present near chasms". Shouldn't it be "Cave spiders spawn periodically near chasms"? I haven't seen chasm without those awesome little silk spawners. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a pic of the end of a chasm here: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8286/chasmendfl7.png
Not sure if it's notable... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 23:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:My current map has a chasm without any spawning spiders. I’ve been playing it for about three or four years (game time, of course) and have not seen any at all. I wonder if it has anything to do with whether the chasm breaks the surface or not? (Mine’s completely enclosed.) My biome is pretty standard, so I don’t think that’s what prevent them from spawning. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 20:27, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

::One of my fortresses has a chasm with no cave spiders. I think it's just random whether a particular chasm contains cave spiders or not. If you export the "world-sites-and-pops" file, it doesn't show chasms, but it does show caves (which supposedly contain the same creatures as chasms), and some have lots of cave spiders while others have none at all. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 21:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Baddies ==

Do chasms spawn hostile creatures like ratmen, or do they just start there? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

:Sadly, UG/chasm/magma no longer spawns anything. Kill it, and it is gone for good. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)

::Any chance of re-introducing spawning? A init option enabling it would be sweet! --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:04, 3 March 2009 (EST)

== Chasm of Death ==

There's no mention of this in the article so I feel compelled to inquire as to what people's experiences of chasms in adventure mode have been.

When 'venturing about one of my fallen fortresses I was attacked by a hoard of troglodytes, approximately 15 brutally violated me within the corridors of my fortress as my noble warrior collapsed due to over-exertion after blocking countless attacks and was promptly strangled to death. Thinking this a mere quirk of the wonderful world of DF I returned to the fortress with a different character, much stronger this time, expecting to be able to have a proper look around. I was sadly mistaken. I was first attacked by a giant eagle, after a few fortunate strikes I had claimed the upper hand and was preparing to deal the killing blow when a wave of those cursed troglodytes clambered up the mountainside. Well taught by the experience of that unfortunate past warrior, abandoning my prey, I fled. Well, I did for a few moments before turning to see the troglodyte hoard attacking the giant eagle, I must say, I felt a deep sense of pity for the poor beast as the monsters went about their brutal practice of trying to break every bone in its body.

With a cry I charged at the mass of assailants and began to cleave them apart, blood spat forth endlessly from the mound of creatures before me as I hacked and slashed, coating the mountainside in crimson. Unfortunately the eagle was torn apart before I could give it a slightly more honourable death (slightly being the key word here) and I found myself surrounded by limbs, corpses and blood. The slaughter of the troglodytes was not to be the first however as each time I return to that cursed place more and more crawl forth from the chasm. They attack all in their path, be they goat or giant eagle and as such the slope of the mountain is stained with the blood of perhaps hundreds and the bones of the countless fallen litter the earth. It seems the troglodytes are without number.

Perhaps this was a curious enigma in the world, a strange chasm of frenzied and blood thirsty troglodytes, so I thought until I came upon an inhabited fortress deep in the mountains nearby. Upon arriving I heard the cries of a child set upon by vicious bat-men, by the time I found the infant I was too late, only a bruised and battered corpse remained. Upon this visit there was little more of importance which came to pass, I was in fact not even aware that there was a chasm in the vicinity until my second visit. As soon as I neared the fortress the stench of death was thick in the air, rat-men, troglodytes and bat-men were mobbing and slaughtering soldiers, fish-cleaners and dyers indiscriminately. I ran to the aid of the assailed but for many I was too late, after what seemed like an age of combat all was quiet and the ground was littered with limbs and corpses and, of course, stained with blood. As I looked upon the all-to-familiar scene of destruction a terrible thought suddenly struck me, perhaps there was a chasm here. From my experience I presumed that it would probably be upon the side of a mountain and so to the East I ran, clambering up the slopes, and as I did so I heard a cry. A swordsman, perhaps with the same idea as I had come upon the chasm and was being attacked by numerous assailants, including a gremlin and several rat-men. Tragically, as I neared his location he bled to death (I don't quite know what cut him, perhaps a large rat entered the battle at some point), I found his corpse high atop a pile of the bodies of those he had slain in his battle-frenzy.

And then, I saw it, the chasm, a damned pit of suffering and torment. No sooner had I sighted it than I was attacked by a number of bat-men. As I fought more and more emerged from the chasm but they all met the same bloody end, my time spent fighting hoards of vicious troglodytes had sharpened my skill in combat and once the stream of foes ended I emerged tired, but unwounded.

To conclude, chasms may be useful waste-disposal areas in fortress, but in adventure they are terrible places of endless slaughter where blood flows unceasingly. Have others had similar experiences? If so I'll add a section (with a little less story-telling) to warn people of the dangers of these cursed pits. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 17:25, 8 February 2009 (EST)
----
Uncommon? They're all over the place in mountain biomes, in my experience. [[User:InsanityPrelude|InsanityPrelude]] 13:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

----

Y'mean the chasms? Perhaps I've been spending too much time frolicking with wolves in the woods.
Admittedly they are pretty prevalent in fortress mode but tend to be tucked away, at least in my fortresses. Maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough on my adventures or the majority of the citizens of chasms are friendlier folk who don't pick fights quite as often. --[[User:Deja Mort|Deja Mort]] 21:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

== To find a chasm ==

Once I looked at my stocks screen to find a bunch of naked mole dog/olmman corpses on the list. I didn't recall anything dying recently, so I zoomed to it and found it pointing deep underground. I never actually got the chance to dig it up and see, but it didn't take me long to figure out what was going on. Anyway, that's just something to look out for, if you're in the market for a chasm, or just don't want any nasty surprises. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 01:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, I found that if you have lots of red [[silk|cave spider silk thread]] on your stocks screen, zoom to one, and then dig to there. Chasm! --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 06:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Cave spiders= Chasm ==

I was digging a corridor right under my cave river when I noticed that there was a bunch of silk laying around and my cats had killed about 10 cave spiders. So after a while more and more cave spiders spawned and made more silk.I was wondering if this meant that i was near a chasm.--[[User:Cerol The Elf Hunter|Cerol The Elf Hunter]] 17:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Use for Drain? ==

I haven't been able to try this out yet, but I was thinking that you could better use flowing water if the end dump was a chasm. There would be no need for any pumps, you can just build a tunnel to the drain and let gravity do the rest! This would make things like computers much easier to operate, and the amount of water you can use is only limited by how fast it spawns in a nearby brook. Tell me what you think (am I insane or a genius [or both]?).
:It actually works wonderfully, with one particular exception worth noting. The higher up in the chasm/pit that you place the water’s exit, the more mist you will generate (mist being generated by falling water) and, therefore, the slower your fort will move due to frame rate issues. I’m not totally sure how to get around this as the water will need to fall somewhere no matter what, but I would assume that if you had a 1x1 channel that the water fell down until it reached the bottom (at which point it would flow into the chasm/pit) that might help because you wouldn’t be generating as much mist in the confined space (but you would still be generating some). (NOTE: This is based on pure speculation from other things I have read on this wiki. I have not actually done this yet.) --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 20:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

== Spawning ==

Just curious: Do Chasms spawn creatures? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 06:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
:No. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

== Dragon? ==

According to [[User:Bentusi16|Bentusi16]]:
:In one case, a [[Dragon]] emerged from a chasm in a Fortress Mode fort without meeting the regular mega beast requirements (The fort had only been in play one in game season). It is not known if this was a bug or is a feature. No other recorded cases of this happening are available at this time.
More information needs to be gathered about this. Did the dragon appear within one of the side caverns, or did it emerge from the map edge? If the latter, it's likely that it simply chose a very poor location to enter the map as all megabeasts do. Also, it isn't clear that there are requirements under which megabeasts can arrive - the [[megabeast|article]] states that such requirements may exist, but they have never been verified. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

== Creating a Chasm ==

Is there any way to create a bottomless pit? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 04:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

File:ChildNeglect.png

2010-01-18T03:36:08Z

Iban: Poor girl is entirely naked and covered in mud, vomit, and blood. Such a lovely society. Probably going to end up as a serial killer or some shit.

Poor girl is entirely naked and covered in mud, vomit, and blood. Such a lovely society. Probably going to end up as a serial killer or some shit.

40d Talk:Legendary artifact

2010-01-18T03:30:58Z

Iban: /* Whodunit? */ new section

==What can become an artifact?==
What are some of the things that dwarfs can make into artifacts? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:59, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Any item that your dwarves can craft and has a quality modifier can be made into artifacts. This includes armor, clothing, weapons, all kinds of crafts, furniture, cut gems and whatnot. Notable exceptions include coins(dunnae have quality modifiers), buildings(aint items) and babies(those rascals!). Bars, blocks, raw glass and other such base materials have no quality modifier and cannot be artifacts. I've never seen or heard about legendary meals, drinks and cloth/thread, so I think they can't be artifacts either. Though dwarves will say that they've eaten a legendary meal, when they've consumed a masterpiece meal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:02, 1 December 2007 (EST)
::Ive heard of someone creating a artifact meal and almost having it rot away before getting it into the food stockpile [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:00, 1 December 2007 (EST)
==Destruction==
On #bay12games, there was some question about artifacts being destroyed by magma. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also ways to destroy artifacts which aren't listed: Trading, dumping in magma vent (the floorless bottom seems to count as chasm), and dropping a bridge on it. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:I can't imagine anything not made of a [[magma-proof]] base material *not* being destroyed by any significant immersion in magma. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:29, 20 January 2008 (EST)
::And yet because it's an artifact, it may have a special flag that prevents specifically that. Can anyone confirm non-magma-proof artifact destruction in magma? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::Nevermind. I did. Artifact mechanism melted in magma. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
Can artifacts burn? After a very large confrontation with a couple dozen spirits of fire, my artifact kobold bone shield is putting off lots of smoke and burning anyone that comes near it, but isn't actually on fire (there's no !! next to the name). After about a year of it smoking up my fort, I channeled the ground under it and built a floor on top of it. 5 years later, it's still there, still smoking, and apparently hot enough to make the walls around it warm. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:44, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:By any chance is it encircled with bands of plutonium?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:33, 13 November 2008 (EST)
::Whoops, wrong bone shield. My other artifact bone shield is the buggered one: ''Tabaralen, "The Faithful Moth" This is a giant cave spider chitin shield. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. Is is decorated with turtle shell and goblin bone. This object menaces with spikes of giant cave spider chitin, Native gold and Tower-cap. On the item is an image of two shields in Phyllite. On the item is an image of Tirist Leaderhammer the dwarf and dwarves in turtle shell. Tirist Leaderhammer is surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the ascension of the dwarf Tirist Leaderhammer to leadership of The Boats of Swallowing in 98. On the item is an image of Mosus Autumnstockade the dwarf in Phyllite.'' [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:06, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Furniture ==

All right, so what can I do with a legendary [[lace agate]] [[hatch cover]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 22 January 2008 (EST)
:<s>Same thing as 90% of Artis. Sell it or</s> Build it in a Noble's room. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:04, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Artifacts are not tradeable. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:19, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Really... that's weird then since I would swear that I sold a particularly valuable bracelet after killing off it's creator that was otherwise useless... Being that it was a good amount of time ago (possibly even pre-3D) that I actually *tried* to sell an arti, it's quite likely that time has muddled an attempt to sell into a successful sale. I suppose this somewhat nullifies my previous comment, since it's far less than 90% of artis which are buildable. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

We just endured a rather nasty goblin ambush (I'd built a nice castle but hadn't yet built a real military to go with it, so we huddled inside with the drawbridge up for a whole season while I had my dwarves equip and train a small army to "break out" with) and one of my peasants gave me the nicest present after we cleaned up; a legendary goblin bone door made out of the bones of our fallen enemies. I very much want to use this as our castle's main entrance door now. Does anyone know if an artifact's indestructibility applies to trolls and similar door-wreckers? Oh, I've got magma, so I'll make a copy of the save game and test whether magma can burn through such a thing too. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 15:30, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:It's a constructed nonterrain feature, thus it's going to be knocked down by anything that deconstructs constructions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

::Hmph. I'll put it a couple of layers deep inside my fortifications, then. Guests will pass through it but invaders will have to fight pretty hard to get there. I'll just have to be satisfied with my giant electrum drawbridge as a fancy front door. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 18:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

My current fortress desperately needs display cases or pedestals for artifacts... or statues could hold them; a legendary blowgun, two scepters and a mask would look cool on statues holding them or in cases. You can build furniture artifacts but currently the only way to "display" other artifacts is to create a stockpile for them. Hmm... imagine a legendary king's statue holding several other artifacts. Forced happyness on anyone walking past it. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 05:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:I build museums; small, deeply-cloistered rooms with only one entrance from above and a sort of checkered fringe of alcoves. I put stockpiles in the fringe and traps in every other allowable space, forbid artifacts from all stockpiles, and watch them trickle in. Sometimes I let large gems in too. Still not quite a pedestal but a rather more decorous display than some random pile... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:23, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Artifact menu ==

I seem to recall stumbling across a list of the various legendary artifacts I had created. Can anyone tell me how to get to it again?
:If you're talking about current artifacts in a given fortress, you get a new menu option once you've produced atleast one in that fortress. (lowercase {{k|L}}) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

much better
--[[User:NateAustin|NateAustin]] 17:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Trade ==

Is it possible to trade legendary artifacts? I just got a legendary statue and it currently sitting my furniture storage. I 've tried to get my dwarves to bring it to the depot, but it doesnt show up on the trade list. Is it possible? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
:No, Artifacts are not tradeable. They will not even take them to the depot if they sit in a bin marked for trade. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed that when I reclaimed a fortress all reclaimed artifacts could be traded.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 20:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

== Value ==
The value can be found under the artifact menur "l"
what is the maximum calue you have found on an artifact, mine is platnium high boot for 146400? --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]
:There is a thread on the forums somewhere with this specific purpose. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Finished Goods"-type Artifacts...? ==

I understand the point of furniture artifacts- they can be built and are great for nobles- but what the heck are you supposed to do with artifact rings/amulets/crowns/scepters/et cetera? I'm sitting on over 300,000 value worth of "Finished Goods" artifacts. I guess my dwarves don't like building furniture... --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]

:You could abandon the fortress and come back in adventure mode. Artifact rings? Too good! --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 11:01, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:There might be more point to those types if/when artifacts start getting special magical effects. That's probably a long ways off though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:16, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:But even in Adventure Mode, artifacts (besides weapons/armor) don't have much of a point, right? To be honest, I've never gone through Adventure Mode- ''it lags my laptop''. Sad, I know. But like BahamutZERO said, at least they'll gain some point ''eventually''... And hopefully soon. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:46, 15 May 2008 (CST)

::Well you can trade 'em to merchants in Adventure mode, I'd imagine? Maybe not, I've never tried, and I doubt the shops sell anything you'd care about (ie masterpiece steel or adamantine weapons and armor). Still, I think it's fun to walk around wearing an artifact ring or amulet! At least until an archer kills you. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:45, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell, artifact crafts/goblets/etc are used entirely for boosting your fortress created wealth stat. There is rarely a time when a sudden 200k added to that is trivial.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Artifact craft items work weird in Adventure mode: you can sell them to a shopkeeper for all their goods and cash, and just pick it back up and walk away without guards jumping you for thievery; you can even re-sell it to the same guy if he has any money left. This is a pretty blatant exploit, though of limited use (coins is heavy!). You cannot, however, fast travel with an artifact you've already sold. But what does a wandering professional spearelf do with a turtle bone crown, anyway? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== selling ==

is there a way to hack DF and be able to sell artifacts? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:58, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact millstones and gems ==
My dwarves have made three artifacts so far; I know that my emerald flask is just for style, but what of the "Perfect Aquamarine" and the Millstone? Will some noble love having a mill placed in his bedroom, grinding away at all hours of the night when he's trying to sleep, or is it just going to annoy him? As for the aquamarine, can it be crafted into furniture? Will this raise the item's value exponentially? Will it still serve to elevate a room to royal status for satisfying noble needs? If no one has the answers to these questions, I'll do the research myself and post findings.
--[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:33, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
::Go ahead and use the millstone -- it'll work just fine. As for the gem, it just looks pretty. Sometimes gem cutters make large gems, and you can trade them away.[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 11:16, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
:::Curious on this note, Can you make gem windows with artifact gems? If so, there is a use for it. [[Gem Window]]s are windows that are made from 3 gems, alike or different, and their quality is derived from their components. [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 11:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

== Artifact quality modifier? ==

I know that the quality modifier for regular equipped items is 1.0... for masterful it's 2.0... But what is the modifier for artifact level items? I can't find it anywhere. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:The QUALITY modifier for artifacts is the same as Masterful, 2.0. The VALUE modifier of artifacts is MUCH higher than the Masterful's x12, though. :) AFAIK, the only difference is that only Legendary weapon/armor users can equip legendary weapons/armors. I may be wrong but I believe I read something to that effect a few months back. ----[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:00, 12 August 2008
::I have yet to run into anybody who knows the quality modifier for sure. If you can find where either testing or a statement from Toady confirms what the modifier is, it would clear that up and be useful in several pages of this wiki. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:14, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:Here's what we do know:
::1) In the game code, artifact weapons have a "masterful" multiplier attached to them.
::2) ''Also'', in that same part of the code, are more unknown modifiers - parts of the code that, as yet, have not been interpreted. Might involve multipliers, might not, we just don't know.
::3) Only Heroes (skill level 15 or better) can wield artifact weapons.
::4) Any dwarf with weapon skill 15 is a one-shot killing machine, with or without an artifact weapon. IF he hits, it's gone - if he hits a limb, it's off, if he hits the torso, organs go red, kk b'bye.. (Megabeasts/whales may be an exception.)
::5) Without combat logging, there is no way to begin to assess what damage is done. (This might be possible in Adventure mode - not as familiar with that.)
::6) Even with combat logging, combat has a lot of randomizing factors in it - a LOT of logging and statistical analysis would have to be done to approach something resembling convincing data.
:And parallel problems for armour (maybe more).
:So, all that said - we don't know. We suspect, but we just don't know. However, as mentioned above, with the possible exception of megabeasts and whales, practically speaking it's a moot point - with an artifact adamantine battle axe or a no quality silver practice axe, heroes are going to do just fine. (I'd like to know, no doubt - but a *steel battle axe* will do just fine for now.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

== Too precious to put down ==

Am I the only one whose dwarves create legendary... [[floodgate]]s, put them down in the workshop and immediately pick them up again... then continue on with their merry lives just significantly weighed down?

I have never been able to use an artifact yet. My dwarves just never let them go!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:04, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:That's never happened to me, fortunately. I've seen three legendary doors, a legendary grate, a legendary bed, and a legendary batman cabinet, and was able to place them all normally. In fact, I've never had a military dwarf who was skillful enough to be worthy of picking up a legendary weapon or piece of armor. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:37, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe that, in earlier versions, artificiers would carry their artifacts with them until death ripped them from their icy fingers. Perhaps you're just using an older version...? [[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:04, 12 August 2008

== Weird Materials (and armour?) ==

"Artifact weapons won't be used by recruits and normal warriors, only by elites and champions." Does this include armour? Also, should we add somewhere that weird materials are possible? Platinum plate armour (which is AWESOME) and the like that aren't normally possible? (I know I've seen it said ''somewhere'', but it's not here) [[User:Droqen|Droqen]] 10:58, 27 July 2008 (EST)

: My Charbone Battle Axe says it should be written down SOMEWHERE :P ...as does my Kunzite Cabinet and Blue Garnet Statue. I have some crazy dwarves. Oh, and that thing about any room with an artifact in it being royal....bunk. I have an artifact Bismuth Chain in a throne room, place didn't get bumped up to royal status until I also threw in the artifact Oaken Hatch Cover. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 11:51, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:: I think that, more specifically, it is that ''most'' artifacts will bump up a room to royal but all. Example: I have a Purple Spinel Door (worth 48000) that bumped up three rooms at once to royal quality. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:07, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

Um, my craftsdwarf just got possessed, and he made a bone spear. "this is a rhesus macaque bone spear, highest quality craftsdwarfship, adorned with hanging rings of birch. does anyone how much damage it will do? is it even possible? [[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Bone gives a 0.5 damage multiplier, but being an artifact gives it a massive (though unknown) damage multiplier also. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

What kind of damage/block multipliers do nontraditional materials have for weapons/armor anyway? Like if there were an artifact Platinum Shield, how would it compare to an artifact Iron Shield? ~~[[User:Loyal|Loyal]] 22:02, 27 December 2009 (EST)
::Pretty sure it's hardcoded that any material without values in the raws will be 50%. With the exception of standard rock short swords, which most people ''think'' are 133%, but no one's absolutely sure. What an artifact rock short sword would be is anyone's guess. --Arrkhal (not logged in)

== availability ==
Is there a way to hack the game so you can make artifact weapons, even if the dwarf isn't in a fey mood? Or better, for them out of nothing? -Eddren, Fortress extraordinar

:Firstly, you signed incorrectly. Use four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to sign with the name and date.

:Secondly, you spelled 'extraordinaire' incorrectly.

:Thirdly, no, not without modifying the source, which would mean you'd need to be a developer (which is, at the time of writing, just one person--Toady), or you'd need to decompile the executable to the base code (good luck with that). And after that, you'd need to be knowledgeable enough in the language it's written in to modify the code to suit your needs.

:In short, no. Wait for moods, like the ''rest'' of us do. And don't expect to be able to create '''artifacts''' out of '''nothing'''. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:55, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact Quine! ==

My Tanner claimed a leatherworking shop and produced a self-referential artifact: Lathonnunùr, "The Mythical Crevices", a donkey leather mask.
:This is a donkey leather mask. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. This object menaces with spikes of dog leather and Alunite. '''On the item is an image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in donkey leather.''' On the item is an image of Portalshades the alligator and dwarves in muskox leather. Portalshades in surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the rise of the alligator Portalshades as an enemy of The Problematic Sack in 29.
Presumably the image is recursive? Anyway, this artifact was apparently ''so cool'' that it created a disturbance in the Force which the dwarves back home managed to pick up, because the very next caravan to arrive offered an empty lead cage decorated with a (presumably also recursive) picture of The Mythical Crevices:
:This is a well-crafted Lead cage. It is decorated with exceptionally worked giant eagle leather and encircled with bands of exceptionally worked Ruby. On the item is a finely-designed image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in Cassiterite.
(Note that I'm running with <tt><nowiki>[SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:YES]</nowiki></tt>, and my fortress started in the year 88. I didn't feel like waiting for the whole thousand-year history to generate — if you hit Escape during worldgen, you can start playing with the universe "so far". Useful thing to know.)
--[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 23:40, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've several recursive artifacts like you mention, as well as caravans arriving with gear decked out in pictures of my artifacts. Maybe a little cave swallow told them? [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:12, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Reclaim Mode and Artifacts ==

It seems that if you have artifacts, lose your fortress, then reclaim, the artifacts are weirdly affected. Artifacts become sellable, for a start. This kinda makes sense because your dwarves don't care so much about someone else's artifacts, I suppose. The really odd thing, though, is that constructed artifacts (grates, doors, etc) seem to stop being artifacts. Shislugbumal becomes merely an elf bone throne - and if you view the items in the "building" the throne contains a Shislugbumal which isn't marked [B], can't be dumped or claimed, isn't listed in the stocks screen etc. And if the throne is deconstructed, it ceases to exist entirely. It does, however, still give a huge boost to the room value. Is this normal behavior?

PS: Damnit, every time I look to this wiki my dwarves all run off to be eaten by skeletal horses. Bastards. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 10:57, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adventure Mode Artfact Oddity ==
So I go to my fortress where two artifacts, a spear and a boot, happen to be still inside the forge. I take the spear and boot out, equip the spear, drop the boot, and look again. It shows that the spear and boot are still in the forge, with an additional boot outside the forge. Further, when I fast travel and end up fighting a bear, the spear is gone from my hand. Thankfully I'd kept the old one as a spare. Any ideas what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:57, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Only dwarves with a legendary skill will use artifact weapons or armor? ==
This bit was just added, but I thought it had been established that [[Soldiers#Heroes_and_Champions|heroes]] ("great" skill level or higher) can also use them, not just champions (legendary skill level). That selfsame data is referenced under [[Legendary_artifact#Usage|Usage]] in this article. I'd edit the article accordingly, but I'm not really sure of that fact; I just remember Toady mentioning offhand at one point something along those lines, that heroes could use them or similar. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 03:23, 9 December 2008 (EST)

== No fuel needed ==
Just noticed that one of my dwarves used a forge to create some artifact greaves with no fuel... Mainly noticed this due to the fact that he wouldn't use my magma forge, and I had to build a non-magma one to get him to make them... Not sure where to add this, and whether anyone else wants to confirm? [[User:Tr00st|Tr00st]] 04:36, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:Consider it confirmed. I've taken advantage of this multiple times. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:51, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Also of note: Moody Dwarves that use a magma forge will only do so if and as long as it is powered. I've had a dwarf go into a frenzy when the forge he was using lost its power due to the shifting of the magma beneath causing it to lose power. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:13, 2 January 2009 (EST)

== Controlled 'glitches' in item number ==
If you forbid an item the moody dwarf has already brought to the shop, it will grab a replacement item for that slot. However, if you unforbid the item afterwards, and the item is still there when he begins (ends?) construction, the previously forbidden items may be incorporated into the artifact.

:Example: Mangrodkast "Ashamed Genius": a fire imp leather shield
:This is a fire imp leather shield. All craftdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is encrusted with bauxite, decorated with leopard leather, and encircled with bands of fire imp leather, sturgeon leather, red diamond, green tourmaline, and nickel. This object is adorned with hanging rings of yellow diamond, donkey leather, and groundhog leather. On the item is an image of a cave spider in green diamond.
:On the item is an image of Ashamedgenius the fire imp leather shield in cave spider silk.
:On the item is an image of dwarves in yellow zircon. The dwarves are traveling. The artwork relates to the founding of Archspears by the Vestibule of Utterances of The Rags of Excavation in 30.

So, it includes: Fire imp leather, sturgeon leather, leopard leather, '''donkey leather''', '''groundhog leather''', bauxite, red diamond, green diamond, yellow diamond, '''green tourmaline''', nickel, cave spider silk, and (rough) yellow zircon, a total of 13 items. The bolded items I had forbade after they made it to the workshop because I wanted the dwarf to use more valuable items, and unforbade them after the dwarf brought such items to the workshop. I actually forbade a third piece of leather, which must have been put away (or possibly simply added to the job queue and thus unavailable) since it was not also added to the artifact.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:03, 17 January 2009 (EST)

== Losing an artifact? ==

I just had my worst artifact ever (first and only of this fort, a possession, created a turtle shell idol worth 3k) stolen by a kobold thief. However, there's no note about the artifact being lost on the artifact menu like the page says. Bug, or should the page be updated?

:Re: Losing an artifact

:Not sure if i'm editting this right, I'm not good at wikis. Anyway, several seasons after losing that artifact, it's name simply -disappeared- from the list of my artifacts. Again this seems to disagree with the article...

== Automatic Royal Wrong==
: An artifact furniture does NOT automatically make the room Royal. Case in point, my first artifact in my current fort- a wood bed with an image of cloud in pine. Only worth 3600, so no royal. Only grand. I suppose I should edit the article...

::Pretty much everything on the wiki regarding to room value is either wrong or hopelessly outdated =( --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

== Bug with Cloth in Artifacts ==
:A mechanic got possessed and made an artifact mica mechanism. He used a mica, cave spider silk ''cloth'' and pig tail ''cloth''. However, when the artifact was made, it said "...It is encircled with bands of cave spider silk and Pig tail..". Does the artifact-making process reduce the cloth to the raw material it was made of?

::When describing the clothes you wear, would you usually say it's made from cotton and polyester, or that it was made from cotton cloth and sheets of polyester? Given that thread is not used as crafting materials, it should be quite obvious that those bands are of cloth.

== Crossbow ==
I think the small entry about artifact crossbows needs to be changed, it's a tad confusing. "Note that the material of a crossbow, artifact or not, does not change its '''''shooting abilities''''', only its viability in melee. However, higher quality crossbows '''''shoot better'''''." -[[User:Lamp|Lamp]] 22:27, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== Values of cloth artifacts ==

Cloth used as the primary component of an artifact seems to have strange effects on its value. I have several cloth artifacts in my most recent fortress. All of them are worth at least 600☼ more than the formula would indicate in the absence of the "default" cloth and dye decorations, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to precisely how much. This item: [[Media:Stigazustos.png]] is worth 13000☼, which is particularly strange because 13000 is not divisible by 120, or even by 12 (the multiplier for masterful dye). Perhaps the quality of the cloth, although no longer visible, is somehow factored into the artifact's value? Does anybody have any idea how this works? --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 06:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

== Number of materials ==

Currently, the article states that "Item types which normally require multiple objects to create (such as Platemail) will cause the moody dwarf to acquire that number of objects". I'm fairly certain that this is false, since the actual type of item isn't determined until the artifact itself is produced at the end of the mood - unless there's some sort of special handling for armorsmithing moods, it should be entirely possible to savescum an artifact low boot into plate mail, regardless of the materials gathered. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Whodunit? ==

One of these arrogant bastards took my artifact turtle helmet and I cant seem to find whodunit. Is there any way to find out who has artifacts on them? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 03:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Barrel

2010-01-18T02:15:04Z

Iban: Overhauled page.

'''Barrels''' are storage units that, like [[bins]] and [[bags]], conserve stockpile space by containing 10 items of the same type (for exceptions, see the ''Mix Food'' and ''Storage Quirk'' sections). They can be made out of [[wood]] or [[metal]]. Making a barrel from wood requires one [[log]], and making a barrel from metal requires three [[bar|bars]] of the same type.

==Specific Uses==
*Stores the following materials:
**[[farming|Plants]]
**[[Seeds]]
**[[Alcohol]]
**[[Extracts]]
**[[fishing|Fish]]
**[[Fat]]
**[[Tallow]]
**[[meal|Prepared meals]]

*Used in the construction of a dyer's shop and the ashery.

==Metal versus Wooden==
'''Metal'''
*A very practical use for bars in overabundance.
*If you're short on wood (due to fortress placement on a [[tundra]], for instance), you can use metal barrels and apply your wood elsewhere.
*Do not catch on fire. If fire is brought to your food stockpile, you can find yourself with a starvation pandemic.
*More effective at deterring [[vermin]] that can disgust your dwarves{{verify}}.

'''Wooden'''
*Wood is often more prevalent and easier to obtain than metal.
*Metal barrels require 3 bars, while wooden barrels only need 1 log. This is the main factor as to why wood barrels are the much more popular choice.
*[[Caravans]] do not stock metal barrels.

==Viewing Contents==
To see the '''contents''' of a barrel (or bin), use the {{k|k}} key to open the look menu. Once over the target, use {{k|+}} & {{k|-}} to scroll up or down the tile's list until the barrel in question is highlighted. Press {{k|enter}} to see its contents. If you wish to view a specific item, the same process can be applied to that menu. You can [[forbid|{{k|f}}orbid]]/[[dump|{{k|d}}ump]] a single item only if you are viewing that item's page. If you are still in the menu with the list of the barrel's contents, you will affect the container itself (and, by inheritance, everything inside it).

==Mix Food==
If the "Mix Food" toggle is on (from the {{k|o}}rders menu - default is on), then dwarves will store similar food into the same barrel, resulting in "Plant Barrel", "Meat Barrel", etc. Turning off this toggle will force the dwarves to store food more explicitly ("Plump Helmet Barrel", etc.), demanding more barrels. Turning off "Mix Food" is primarily useful if you have [[stockpile]]s that specialize based on plant type; for instance, a [[pig tail]] stockpile near the weaver, a [[cave wheat]] stockpile near the mill, etc.

==Storage Quirks==
Each barrel normally has a capacity of 10 items. Exceptions are [[alcohol]], where a barrel stores as much as can be squeezed in from a single plant stack, [[seed]]s, which can be stored in bags which in turn are stored in barrels, and [[milk]] and [[lye]], which can hold up to 100 units. If you have a stack of more than 10 items (typically [[prepared meal]]s), it will not be stored in a barrel.

[[Category:Furniture]]

40d:Dam

2010-01-17T23:35:25Z

Iban: /* Magma Method */

[[Image:dam.jpg|right]]

A dam can be built across a [[river]] or [[brook]]. This has several uses:

*Stop a river from flowing altogether
*Modify a river's path
*Create a pretty lake or functional reservoir
*Create water-based traps

A river will not "overflow" its banks above its starting level because of a dam. (Note - if a waterfall is upstream, the ''upper level'' is the "starting level"!)

==Dam Building==

Finding the direction the water flows is probably a necessary step to take. This is actually fairly simple - at one end, the river falls off the map, and so is of a low water height. Check the outmost tiles of both ends of the river.

===Ice Method===
The easiest and quickest method of Dam manufacture is only possible if your map freezes during winter. Simply dig out a thin section of [[channel]]s across the river and build a wall out of floodgates, blocking the path of the water.

===Draining Method===

Another way is to drain the river. This can be done by building a tunnel next to the river that dumps into a chasm or deep valley. The dumping tunnel should only be one square wide, with a single floodgate to control it, as long as where the water first enters it has a fairly large number of squares of "Open Space" to move into. The water over Open Space will rapidly force its way down, forcing the rest to flow at warp speed. Be sure the floodgate is operational, as this sort of flow imposes terrible game lag while active. The more edge tiles drained from, the faster the level will go down enough to allow construction.

An alternative method to this is to use a large number of pumps to move more water out of the river than can be replaced by the water flow. For a river with a width of 4 tiles, you will need three on either side pumping it into channels or tunnels, ideally off the map, a waterfall, or somewhere where flooding will not be a concern. While the pumps are operating, it will be drained enough to build the dam.

If your dwarves are persistent enough you can also dig out a large chamber under the river at Z-1, channel out holes on both sides at Z0, and cover these holes with walled-in bridges. When you raise the bridges the water drops down; when you lower them it starts flowing again. This avoids the 'infinite hole' bug that can result if you uses collapses to punch holes in the bottom of brooks.

[[Image:DammingEfforts.png|left|thumb|200px|An example of how to construct a magma dam.]]
===Magma Method===

If you have access to a [[magma]] source, you can pump magma into the flowing water. When the magma and water collide, the result is a tile of [[obsidian]]- an added bonus if you're in the market for making obsidian items. Pump enough magma into the river to reach both banks for a stretch at least 3-4 tiles wide in order to give your dwarves enough space to channel out the obsidian and place [[floodgate]]s. 
'''Beware:''' Pumping magma too close to the edge of the map could result in permanently damming your river! Obsidian tiles created on the edge of the map cannot be mined out!

If you wish to move magma over a brook without damming it, constructed floors over the brook tiles work.

===Natural [[Cave-in]] ===
If your river is '''[[River#Underground Rivers|underground]]''', you can use [[channel]]ing to collapse a section of rock into it. If this rock was [[construction|construct]]ed (i.e., you built it as walls or floors), it will revert to its component stones and sink to the bottom, not blocking the river at all. However, if the rock is '''natural''', it will retain its shape and block the flow of water.

Since above-ground rivers normally do not pass beneath natural rock, this strategy is difficult to apply to them. But dwarven ingenuity should never be underestimated.

==Your Dam==

===The Dam===
[[Image:Dam2.JPG|left]]
After your dam has been completed and looks something like the image, you can expect water to just stop flowing UNLESS there is a waterfall. If that is the case, the water will just flow around it after flooding a fair amount of space around it. If you messed up while making a magma dam and permanently obfuscated the edge of the map, you can expect the entire world to flood up to the point where water enters.

===Actually Building===
Once the river has been drained (which can take a VERY long time), you may have to dig into the riverbed by ordering a channel to be dug in the open space tile above the tile you want to build on. The result of this, however, is that the tile is no longer considered a brook/river and it behaves like any other storage of water. It no longer colored a pretty light-blue and nothing (including dwarfs, caravans, goblins, etc) can walk on top of it. This can be very annoying, so be prepared.

===Further Possibilities===
*Most of the above techniques can be used to puncture oceans and lakes, for dikes or random under-water bunkers.
*You can create a massive flood if you build a dam out of floodgates and open them all at once. Good for traps. Works with magma.
*Being in control of your local river/brook makes you more of a <s>man</s> dwarf.

[[Category:Guides]]
{{Water FAQ}}

40d Talk:Electrum

2010-01-17T08:21:50Z

Iban:

Has anyone actually done this in the current version? Or do we have to wait for a dungeon master equivalent?
--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 01:34, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Can you make electrum from a silver bar and a gold nugget or gold bar and silver ore? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 23:42, 9 January 2008 (EST)
:nope. Alloy can be made from bars only, or from ores only. Not the mix.[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:00, 10 January 2008 (EST)

--Easter Egg?--
Version 0.28.181.40d:
When I was trying to make electrum goods from the work orders menu, I misspelled electrum. Turns out that if you type any string that has no matches and has a word that starts with "elec-", Up pops some text that implies that electrum isn't included in the game.

This would be an Easter Egg, if electrum were not implemented. Maybe it is leftover from a version that didn't? Can anyone verify if this is in a pre-electrum version? (Is there a pre-electrum version?) [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:16, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:This was an easter egg in 2D versions that sprang up when you tried to make electrum before the dungeon master arrived. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Well, since you no longer need the dungeon master, I'll call this one a bug. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 00:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:::It's more likely a very intricate spell-checking/match-making feature for people who cant spell. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 08:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Iban

2010-01-16T19:12:09Z

Iban: Created page with 'Hey. I'm pretty new to the game, but I've gotten pretty good. I like contributin', since this is probably one the most complex and underrated games I have ever come across. Alth…'

Hey.

I'm pretty new to the game, but I've gotten pretty good. I like contributin', since this is probably one the most complex and underrated games I have ever come across. Although most of the articles have beat me to facts in most cases, the walls of text are somewhat foreboding so I'm trying to add a picture to a paragraph to help ease the learning curve for new players and add some comedic relief.

If I screw up, pop me a message on my talk page. I check the website religiously.

--[[User:Iban|Iban]] 19:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Children

2010-01-16T19:09:12Z

Iban: /* Moods */

__NOTOC__
[[Dwarves]] are considered '''children''' for their first twelve years. They learn how to become a [[dwarf]] through living in and participating in dwarven society with no formal schools, apprenticeships or other formal learning; even parenting seems quite minimal.

In fortress mode, some migrant dwarves are married and may bring children. Children who immigrate to your [[fortress]] might be any age from 2 to 12, and there is no way to determine the age of a child.

"Resident" dwarves may also give birth to children. This can be stopped or reduced by editing the init file. Dwarves even can have miscarriages, which causes an unhappy thought for the mother but not for the father.

Children are listed last among dwarves on the {{k|u}}nits list, and appear as a dark red dwarf:

:{{Skill Box|Children|#800|#800|
}}

==Babies==

When children are born, they are looked after by their parents, who will continue working, leaving the baby in the [[workshop]] if they go to get [[material]]s. It is thought that babies sharing a tile with their parents always lie down, not the parent. Babies do not have to be born in [[bed]]s, but are born wherever the mother happens to be; the birth will interrupt the mother's current action. If the mother is [[sleep]]ing, however, the birth may not wake her.{{verify}} Still the game may report the message "...cancels sleep: seeking infant."

If the mother dies the baby will almost always head to the nearest ledge and throw itself off of it {{verify}}, they will continue to do this until they either die or they grow to be a child. Orphans are never adopted by other dwarves.

==Labor==
Children may not be assigned any labors, but perform some activities without any intervention:

* socialising, through arranging [[party|parties]] in [[meeting hall]]s;
* [[harvest|harvesting]] [[crops]], if the 'All dwarves harvest' order is on;
* removing [[construction]]s (such as [[wall]]s, [[floor]]s, [[ramp]]s);
* pulling [[lever]]s;
* filling designated ponds;
* [[hauling]] items to the [[trade depot]];
* eating, drinking, and sleeping as necessary.

Children may not be assigned to the [[noble|nobility]], although babies seem to be able to.

==Diet==
Children seem to eat and drink with similar preferences to adult dwarves, including a preference for [[alcohol]] over plain [[water]].

==Kidnapping==
Children are also the target of [[goblin|goblin snatchers]], who will sneak into your fortress and try to kidnap young dwarves by stuffing one in a sack and hightailing it out of there. Like stolen objects, children who are removed from the map are lost forever, for now. [[Toady]] has hinted that slaves can be freed in a future version.

==Moods==
[[Image:LegendaryChild.png|right|thumb|200px|The result of intensive child labor.]]
[[Strange mood]]s affect children in the same way as adults, though a lack of any skill will always result in an artifact [[craft]] made of stone, wood, or bone; unless the child was possessed, the result is a [[legendary]] [[stone crafter]], [[wood crafter]], or [[bone carver]] (depending on the artifact made) once the child grows up.

If one of your dwarves gives birth while in a [[Strange Mood]], she will completely ignore her baby and focus completely on finishing her project. The baby will think that its mother is dead so it will attempt to end its life, but if the mother finishes creating the artifact before that happens, she will seek her child and they will behave normally (at least by dwarven standards, anyway).

==Adulthood==
At the age of twelve, children become adult [[dwarf|dwarves]]. While most then become unskilled [[peasant]]s, those who have successfully completed a strange mood other than possession will become legendary [[craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]]; those who help in harvesting [[plants]] throughout childhood may have built up sufficient experience points in the [[grower]] skill to become [[Planter]]s, although it will list them as peasants until they skill up.

==Dwarven parenthood==

As an oversight in programming, children's parents can become so preoccupied with finding their children that they can die of thirst. This is aimed to be fixed at a later update.

==Military Children==

Although possibly not a bug, children with military mothers will be carried joyfully into battle and usually slaughtered wholesale. Deactivating the mother's military commission may be the best idea to keep the children alive and the parents from throwing [[tantrum]]s when a stray [[bolt]] hits the child. However, If the dwarven parent in question can be kept happy, Dwarven babies make ''excellent'' combat armour.
''
[[Category:Dwarves]]

File:LegendaryChild.png

2010-01-16T19:07:12Z

Iban: I do not know how this happened. I swear, no witchcraft involved.

I do not know how this happened. I swear, no witchcraft involved.

40d:Dam

2010-01-16T07:21:44Z

Iban: I helped.

[[Image:dam.jpg|right]]

A dam can be built across a [[river]] or [[brook]]. This has several uses:

*Stop a river from flowing altogether
*Modify a river's path
*Create a pretty lake or functional reservoir
*Create water-based traps

A river will not "overflow" its banks above its starting level because of a dam. (Note - if a waterfall is upstream, the ''upper level'' is the "starting level"!)

==Dam Building==

Finding the direction the water flows is probably a necessary step to take. This is actually fairly simple - at one end, the river falls off the map, and so is of a low water height. Check the outmost tiles of both ends of the river.

===Ice Method===
The easiest and quickest method of Dam manufacture is only possible if your map freezes during winter. Simply dig out a thin section of [[channel]]s across the river and build a wall out of floodgates, blocking the path of the water.

===Draining Method===

Another way is to drain the river. This can be done by building a tunnel next to the river that dumps into a chasm or deep valley. The dumping tunnel should only be one square wide, with a single floodgate to control it, as long as where the water first enters it has a fairly large number of squares of "Open Space" to move into. The water over Open Space will rapidly force its way down, forcing the rest to flow at warp speed. Be sure the floodgate is operational, as this sort of flow imposes terrible game lag while active. The more edge tiles drained from, the faster the level will go down enough to allow construction.

An alternative method to this is to use a large number of pumps to move more water out of the river than can be replaced by the water flow. For a river with a width of 4 tiles, you will need three on either side pumping it into channels or tunnels, ideally off the map, a waterfall, or somewhere where flooding will not be a concern. While the pumps are operating, it will be drained enough to build the dam.

If your dwarves are persistent enough you can also dig out a large chamber under the river at Z-1, channel out holes on both sides at Z0, and cover these holes with walled-in bridges. When you raise the bridges the water drops down; when you lower them it starts flowing again. This avoids the 'infinite hole' bug that can result if you uses collapses to punch holes in the bottom of brooks.

[[Image:DammingEfforts.png|left|thumb|200px|An example of how to construct a magma dam.]]
===Magma Method===

If you have access to a [[magma]] source, you can pump magma into the flowing water. When the magma and water collide, the result is a tile of [[obsidian]]- an added bonus if you're in the market for making obsidian items. Pump enough magma into the river to reach both banks for a stretch at least 3-4 tiles wide in order to give your dwarves enough space to channel out the obsidian and place [[floodgate]]s. 
'''Beware:''' Pumping magma too close to the edge of the map could result in permanently damming your river! Obsidian tiles created on the edge of the map cannot be mined out!

If you wish to move magma over a brook without damming it, constructed floors over the brook tiles work.

===Natural [[Cave-in] ===
If your river is '''[[River#Underground Rivers|underground]]''', you can use [[channel]]ing to collapse a section of rock into it. If this rock was [[construction|construct]]ed (i.e., you built it as walls or floors), it will revert to its component stones and sink to the bottom, not blocking the river at all. However, if the rock is '''natural''', it will retain its shape and block the flow of water.

Since above-ground rivers normally do not pass beneath natural rock, this strategy is difficult to apply to them. But dwarven ingenuity should never be underestimated.

==Your Dam==

===The Dam===
[[Image:Dam2.JPG|left]]
After your dam has been completed and looks something like the image, you can expect water to just stop flowing UNLESS there is a waterfall. If that is the case, the water will just flow around it after flooding a fair amount of space around it. If you messed up while making a magma dam and permanently obfuscated the edge of the map, you can expect the entire world to flood up to the point where water enters.

===Actually Building===
Once the river has been drained (which can take a VERY long time), you may have to dig into the riverbed by ordering a channel to be dug in the open space tile above the tile you want to build on. The result of this, however, is that the tile is no longer considered a brook/river and it behaves like any other storage of water. It no longer colored a pretty light-blue and nothing (including dwarfs, caravans, goblins, etc) can walk on top of it. This can be very annoying, so be prepared.

===Further Possibilities===
*Most of the above techniques can be used to puncture oceans and lakes, for dikes or random under-water bunkers.
*You can create a massive flood if you build a dam out of floodgates and open them all at once. Good for traps. Works with magma.
*Being in control of your local river/brook makes you more of a man.

[[Category:Guides]]
{{Water FAQ}}

40d:Dam

2010-01-16T07:07:56Z

Iban: Moved the position of the image above the magma method header. looks nicer.

[[Image:dam.jpg]]

A dam can be built across a [[river]] or [[brook]]. This has several uses:

*Stop a river from flowing altogether
*Modify a river's path
*Create a pretty lake or functional reservoir
*Create water-based traps

A river will not "overflow" its banks above its starting level because of a dam. (Note - if a waterfall is upstream, the ''upper level'' is the "starting level"!)

==Dam Building==

Finding the direction the water flows is probably a necessary step to take. This is actually fairly simple - at one end, the river falls off the map, and so is of a low water height. Check the outmost tiles of both ends of the river.

===Ice method===
The easiest and quickest method of Dam manufacture is only possible if your map freezes during winter. Simply dig out a thin section of [[channel]]s across the river and build a wall out of floodgates, blocking the path of the water.

===Draining method===

Another way is to drain the river. This can be done by building a tunnel next to the river that dumps into a chasm or deep valley. The dumping tunnel should only be one square wide, with a single floodgate to control it, as long as where the water first enters it has a fairly large number of squares of "Open Space" to move into. The water over Open Space will rapidly force its way down, forcing the rest to flow at warp speed. Be sure the floodgate is operational, as this sort of flow imposes terrible game lag while active. The more edge tiles drained from, the faster the level will go down enough to allow construction.

An alternative method to this is to use a large number of pumps to move more water out of the river than can be replaced by the water flow. For a river with a width of 4 tiles, you will need three on either side pumping it into channels or tunnels, ideally off the map, a waterfall, or somewhere where flooding will not be a concern. While the pumps are operating, it will be drained enough to build the dam.

If your dwarves are persistent enough you can also dig out a large chamber under the river at Z-1, channel out holes on both sides at Z0, and cover these holes with walled-in bridges. When you raise the bridges the water drops down; when you lower them it starts flowing again. This avoids the 'infinite hole' bug that can result if you uses collapses to punch holes in the bottom of brooks.

[[Image:DammingEfforts.png|left|thumb|200px|An example of how to construct a magma dam.]]
===Magma method===

If you have access to a [[magma]] source, you can pump magma into the flowing water. When the magma and water collide, the result is a tile of [[obsidian]]- an added bonus if you're in the market for making obsidian items. Pump enough magma into the river to reach both banks for a stretch at least 3-4 tiles wide in order to give your dwarves enough space to channel out the obsidian and place [[floodgate]]s. 
'''Beware:''' Pumping magma too close to the edge of the map could result in permanently damming your river! Obsidian tiles created on the edge of the map cannot be mined out!

If you wish to move magma over a brook without damming it, constructed floors over the brook tiles work.

=== Natural [[Cave-in]] ===
If your river is '''[[River#Underground Rivers|underground]]''', you can use [[channel]]ing to collapse a section of rock into it. If this rock was [[construction|construct]]ed (i.e., you built it as walls or floors), it will revert to its component stones and sink to the bottom, not blocking the river at all. However, if the rock is '''natural''', it will retain its shape and block the flow of water.

Since above-ground rivers normally do not pass beneath natural rock, this strategy is difficult to apply to them. But dwarven ingenuity should never be underestimated.

==Actual building==

Once the river has been drained you may have to dig into the riverbed to be able to place buildings. It will look a bit like this:
[[Image:Dam2.JPG]]

Once the dam has been built and when the water comes back it will fill up the gap as far as it must to let the blocked water flow further. If you build your dam up to the level of the river the water will stop at the top level of the dam (it will not overflow). Since this defies logic it may be fixed in future releases.

You can create a massive flood if you build a dam out of floodgates and open them all at once.

===Further possibilities===

A similar technique can be used to create water "holes" in large bodies of water, such as lakes or even the ocean. Build a ring of floors at the water's surface, and line it with an immense number of pumps, facing out of the area you wish to drain. The pumps should be able to push out water faster than it can come back in, allowing you to build a dike in this area. This is hazardous if the water is more than one z-level deep, since it's highly likely a dwarf can drown. Even if technically safe in that the water level doesn't rise high enough to be dangerous, the rapidly-fluctuating water levels may cause dwarves to repeatedly stop work at the site anyway.
[[Category:Guides]]

{{Water FAQ}}

40d:Dam

2010-01-16T07:07:12Z

Iban:

[[Image:dam.jpg]]

A dam can be built across a [[river]] or [[brook]]. This has several uses:

*Stop a river from flowing altogether
*Modify a river's path
*Create a pretty lake or functional reservoir
*Create water-based traps

A river will not "overflow" its banks above its starting level because of a dam. (Note - if a waterfall is upstream, the ''upper level'' is the "starting level"!)

==Dam Building==

Finding the direction the water flows is probably a necessary step to take. This is actually fairly simple - at one end, the river falls off the map, and so is of a low water height. Check the outmost tiles of both ends of the river.

===Ice method===
The easiest and quickest method of Dam manufacture is only possible if your map freezes during winter. Simply dig out a thin section of [[channel]]s across the river and build a wall out of floodgates, blocking the path of the water.

===Draining method===

Another way is to drain the river. This can be done by building a tunnel next to the river that dumps into a chasm or deep valley. The dumping tunnel should only be one square wide, with a single floodgate to control it, as long as where the water first enters it has a fairly large number of squares of "Open Space" to move into. The water over Open Space will rapidly force its way down, forcing the rest to flow at warp speed. Be sure the floodgate is operational, as this sort of flow imposes terrible game lag while active. The more edge tiles drained from, the faster the level will go down enough to allow construction.

An alternative method to this is to use a large number of pumps to move more water out of the river than can be replaced by the water flow. For a river with a width of 4 tiles, you will need three on either side pumping it into channels or tunnels, ideally off the map, a waterfall, or somewhere where flooding will not be a concern. While the pumps are operating, it will be drained enough to build the dam.

If your dwarves are persistent enough you can also dig out a large chamber under the river at Z-1, channel out holes on both sides at Z0, and cover these holes with walled-in bridges. When you raise the bridges the water drops down; when you lower them it starts flowing again. This avoids the 'infinite hole' bug that can result if you uses collapses to punch holes in the bottom of brooks.

===Magma method===
[[Image:DammingEfforts.png|left|thumb|200px|An example of how to construct a magma dam.]]

If you have access to a [[magma]] source, you can pump magma into the flowing water. When the magma and water collide, the result is a tile of [[obsidian]]- an added bonus if you're in the market for making obsidian items. Pump enough magma into the river to reach both banks for a stretch at least 3-4 tiles wide in order to give your dwarves enough space to channel out the obsidian and place [[floodgate]]s. 
'''Beware:''' Pumping magma too close to the edge of the map could result in permanently damming your river! Obsidian tiles created on the edge of the map cannot be mined out!

If you wish to move magma over a brook without damming it, constructed floors over the brook tiles work.

=== Natural [[Cave-in]] ===
If your river is '''[[River#Underground Rivers|underground]]''', you can use [[channel]]ing to collapse a section of rock into it. If this rock was [[construction|construct]]ed (i.e., you built it as walls or floors), it will revert to its component stones and sink to the bottom, not blocking the river at all. However, if the rock is '''natural''', it will retain its shape and block the flow of water.

Since above-ground rivers normally do not pass beneath natural rock, this strategy is difficult to apply to them. But dwarven ingenuity should never be underestimated.

==Actual building==

Once the river has been drained you may have to dig into the riverbed to be able to place buildings. It will look a bit like this:
[[Image:Dam2.JPG]]

Once the dam has been built and when the water comes back it will fill up the gap as far as it must to let the blocked water flow further. If you build your dam up to the level of the river the water will stop at the top level of the dam (it will not overflow). Since this defies logic it may be fixed in future releases.

You can create a massive flood if you build a dam out of floodgates and open them all at once.

===Further possibilities===

A similar technique can be used to create water "holes" in large bodies of water, such as lakes or even the ocean. Build a ring of floors at the water's surface, and line it with an immense number of pumps, facing out of the area you wish to drain. The pumps should be able to push out water faster than it can come back in, allowing you to build a dike in this area. This is hazardous if the water is more than one z-level deep, since it's highly likely a dwarf can drown. Even if technically safe in that the water level doesn't rise high enough to be dangerous, the rapidly-fluctuating water levels may cause dwarves to repeatedly stop work at the site anyway.
[[Category:Guides]]

{{Water FAQ}}

File:DammingEfforts.png

2010-01-16T07:05:18Z

Iban: Please Note: Those floodgates are alunite. This is the result of a mod. Alunite floodgates will deconstruct in an unmodified game.

Please Note: Those floodgates are alunite. This is the result of a mod. Alunite floodgates will deconstruct in an unmodified game.

Damming

2010-01-16T07:02:07Z

Iban: Redirected page to Dam

#redirect [[dam]]

File:Waterfail.png

2010-01-15T22:03:25Z

Iban: