Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Mule

2010-09-11T17:02:36Z

Extar: Created page with 'If mules cannot breed, is there an explanation for the presence of Mule foals in my fortress? ~~~~'

If mules cannot breed, is there an explanation for the presence of Mule foals in my fortress? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 17:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Tomb

2010-09-04T02:28:39Z

Extar:

[[User:Extar|Extar]] 02:28, 4 September 2010 (UTC)==Inheritance==
It's well known that when a dwarf dies without a designated tomb, any possessions will be inherited by his/her spouse. In version 0.23.130.23a, I found that children will also inherit possessions if both of their parents die - it's almost certain that this is still the case, but it would still be prudent to verify. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:11, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

==Happy Thoughts==
Do dwarves still get happy thoughts from having a tomb assigned to them? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 02:28, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Stockpile

2010-08-28T22:37:43Z

Extar:

{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}

'''Stockpiles''' are where {{L|dwarf|dwarves}} will store items of various types. Dwarves with the corresponding "{{L|hauling}}" job on will seek out items that aren't already on a stockpile that accepts them and carry them to the appropriate stockpile. It's important to place your stockpiles carefully to minimize the amount of time spent carrying items to and from them. Items in a stockpile may be stored in {{L|bag|bags}}, {{L|barrel|barrels}} or {{L|bin|bins}} (see {{L|Using bins and barrels}}). Seed bags can go inside barrels.

== Allocating stockpiles ==

To allocate an area as a stockpile, use the {{key|p}} menu. The right-hand menu pane will list all the stockpile categories, and the appropriate key to press to begin allocating that type. Allocating an area works exactly the same as designating an area. Press {{k|Enter}} to specify the first corner of the stockpile, use the primary movement keys to move the cursor to the opposite corner, and press {{k|Enter}} again. This will create a stockpile of the chosen type that occupies the area between the two corners specified. If the chosen area has parts that cannot be made into a stockpile, like a {{L|wall}}, a {{L|workshop}}, or an already existing stockpile, a stockpile will be created but they will not be part of it.

Removing a stockpile works exactly the same, but choose {{key|x}}: Remove Designation. This will un-designate the specified area. It is possible to create a single stockpile with a shape other than a rectangle by using the Remove Designation tool to remove only part of the stockpile.

Stockpiles cannot be expanded once created; you must delete the pile and create a new one.

== Using stockpiles ==

Once a stockpile has been allocated, dwarves will automatically move items to the stockpile when they are available, and as long as the stockpile has available space. Note that the dwarves will place the item into the empty spot that is nearest to the item, ''not counting any obstructions''{{verify}}. Additional behavior also includes the fact that dwarves will stockpile the ''newest'' item first, which may not necessarily be the nearest item to the stockpile.

When dwarves need an item for a particular task, they will head to the nearest (again, not counting any obstructions that may lie in the way) item of the correct type, regardless of whether it is in a stockpile or not. Apart from some exceptions, items do not have to be stockpiled at all. Players are generally advised to avoid stone stockpiles, because stone {{L|hauling}} jobs take an extreme amount of time for unskilled dwarves, due to the weight hauled.

One method to ensure a workshop has raw material on hand is to place a small stockpile next to the workshop. This will speed up production as the crafter in question only has to take a few steps to obtain the material. It also has a useful side-effect, in that as soon as the crafter picks up the piece of material, the stockpile will issue a new task to fetch another piece of that material. Because that crafter is busy, that hauling job will be taken by another {{L|dwarf}}. This speeds up a queue of jobs, as other dwarfs perform the time-consuming distant haul whilst the crafter actually makes the items.

It's not necessary to place stockpiles for all types of objects. If no storage is available for a certain item type, dwarves will seek out items wherever they might lie as mentioned earlier. This can be advantageous -- if you don't have a stockpile for {{L|gem|gems}}, your {{L|jeweler}} will go pick up fresh gems without waiting for them to be carried to a pile first. However, this also means your jeweler has to spend a lot of time fetching the gems. If you have enough haulers available, it's generally more advantageous to designate stockpiles than not. Also remember that your workshops will get {{L|clutter|cluttered}} and suffer production slowdowns if you let items pile up in them, so it's important to regularly clear out workshops when they get cluttered. This can be done either by having a stockpile available so that haulers will remove the items or by removing and rebuilding the workshop, which will empty its contents onto the ground.

This is unfortunately bugged and very few people seem to have gotten it to work.[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=86] It leaves dwarfs running around confused rather than moving goods in most situations.

== Take from a stockpile ==

Another feature of stockpiles, currently in a limited form, allows you to tell dwarves to fill one stockpile not only with unstockpiled items, but also those located on another stockpile that accepts those items. To specify such a flow, use the {{k|q}} menu, and highlight the ''destination'' stockpile. Press {{k|t}}, and, using the cursor, highlight another stockpile and press {{k|Enter}}. Your chosen stockpile will now list the stockpile it will take from. This will cause items in the second stockpile to be hauled to the first stockpile. To stop the first stockpile from taking items from the second, use the {{K|q}} menu on the first one, highlight the unneeded stockpile in the list using {{K|+}} and {{K|-}} and press {{K|d}}'''elete Selected'''.

Each stockpile can take from any number of other stockpiles, but can only have one stockpile taking from it in turn. This limit applies even if the two stockpiles you want it to feed into don't share a single material that can be stored in both of them. Additionally, you can't make two stockpiles feed into each other, although larger loops (e.g. 3 stockpiles that feed into each other in a circle) are allowed.

However, despite these limitations, enough micromanagement will allow for effective and (relatively) streamlined supply chains. For example, you can speed up {{L|wood cutting|lumber harvesting}}, {{L|carpentry}}, ''and'' {{L|ash}} and {{L|charcoal}} production by putting several wood stockpiles near the various {{L|Chop_down_trees|tree-felling areas}}, then one large "primary" stockpile near the {{L|carpenter's workshop}} that takes from those small ones, and then finally, a small stockpile near the {{L|wood furnace}} that takes from the primary one.

== Stockpile categories ==

==={{L|Ammo}}===
This stockpile contains ammo for all forms of ammunition-requiring weaponry (except siege engines). It can use {{L|bin|bins}} to consolidate up to 100 units of ammo.

==={{L|Animal}}===
{{L|Creature|Animals}} stored in {{L|cage|cages}} that are not affixed to a location will be stored in these stockpiles. {{L|Animal trap|Traps}} used for capturing wild animals and empty {{L|cage|cages}} are also stored here.

==={{L|Armor}}===
Armor of all types is stored here. This kind of stockpile can use bins to consolidate up to 10 items. There is no preference for specific body parts. All types of armor can be stored in {{L|bin|bins}}.

==={{L|Bar}}/{{L|Block}}===
Bars of smelted {{L|metal}} and blocks of cut stone and {{L|glass}} are kept here after being processed by the {{L|smelter}}, {{L|mason's workshop|mason's workshops}}, and {{L|glass furnace|glass furnaces}}, before being used for other purposes. Weirdly, {{L|ash|ashes}}, {{L|potash}}, {{L|soap}}, {{L|charcoal}}, and {{L|coke}} from the {{L|wood furnace}}, {{L|ashery}}, {{L|alchemist's laboratory}} and smelter will also be stored here. Like with all stockpiles, this can be changed to allow for specific blocks and bars to be stored with custom settings. {{L|Bin|Bins}} can be used to consolidate up to 10 bars and blocks.

==={{L|Cloth}}===
Woven cloth and {{L|thread}} from the {{L|loom}} is stored here. {{L|Bin|Bins}} can be used to consolidate up to 10 items.

==={{L|Currency|Coins}}===
Minted coins are kept here. Bins can be used to consolidate up to 3000 coins, which is equivalent to six new coins stacks.

==={{L|Finished goods|Finished Goods}}===
Finished goods created by the {{L|craftsdwarf's workshop}}, as well as the {{L|clothier's shop}} and the {{L|leather works}}, are placed here before being used in trade or other uses. This type of stockpile can use {{L|bin|bins}} to consolidate up to 25 items.

=== {{L|Food}} ===

As one would assume based on the name, food is stored here. Unexpectedly, {{L|lye}}, {{L|giant desert scorpion}} venom, bags of {{L|dye}}, and {{L|Fire snake|liquid fire}} are as well. Raw {{L|fish}} is brought here before being processed by {{L|fishery}} and turned into edible {{L|meat}}. Drinks are always stored in {{L|barrel|barrels}}. Seeds can be stored in {{L|bag|bags}}, whereas other food items can be stored in {{L|barrel|barrels}} (up to 10 items per barrel, but note that
the stack +Cow meat roast [8]+ would count as eight items.)

Note that {{L|prepared meal|prepared meals}} in stacks larger than ten (☼Dwarven Beer Roast [200]☼ is possible) will not fit in a barrel, but will not rot once placed in a food stockpile, and still only take up one space. To free up barrels, you may decide to have separate prepared food stockpiles that do not accept barrels. If you cook larger meals, this shouldn't be a problem.

Food stockpiles should in most cases be specified as things like {{L|seed}} stockpiles or meat stockpiles or unprepared fish stockpiles; there are simply too many things that go in them.

==={{L|Furniture}} Storage===
Completed items from the {{L|carpenter's workshop}}, mason's workshop, and {{L|mechanic's workshop}} will be stored here, along with furniture created from other shops, until placed or used in another building. Bags filled with {{L|sand}} can also be stored in furniture stockpiles.

Since this is a very broad category, it may be useful to create stockpiles for a specific type of item (like barrels, bags, bins, mechanisms) via the stockpile settings.

==={{L|Gem}}===
This stockpile stores gems and raw {{L|glass}}, both cut and uncut, before being used in a construction. It can use {{L|bin|bins}} to consolidate up to 10 gems.

==={{L|Graveyard}}===
Dead dwarves and {{L|pet|pets}} that have no burial location will be placed here. If placed indoors, decaying bodies will generate {{L|miasma}}, but {{L|bone|bones}} will not removed at the end of the season. Rotting {{L|pet|pets}} or {{L|friend|friends}} gives dwarves unhappy {{L|thought|thoughts}} unless they are given a proper burial in a {{L|tomb}}.

==={{L|Leather}}===
Leather, which is produced at a {{L|Tanner's shop}}, will be kept here. Like most stockpiles, it can use {{L|bin|bins}} to consolidate up to 10 items.

==={{L|refuse stockpile|Refuse}}===
Since dwarves hate rot because of the miasma it spreads when in an enclosed place like a {{L|cave}}, any garbage item that can rot will be stored in a refuse stockpile. Also, any XXdamaged itemsXX will be moved to the refuse stockpile. Many players prefer to place this stockpile outside their cavern, usually a small distance from the entrance. If placed indoors, decaying items will generate miasma, which will spread through your fortress and generate a small unhappy thought in any dwarf passing through it. For this reason it is sensible to build {{L|door|doors}} to all of your indoor refuse stockpiles - the miasma won't spread through a closed door so only dwarves with business in the room will be bothered by the rot. An alternative to this is to dig {{L|channel|channels}} down from the surface, creating an outside area inside your fortress. You can place your refuse stockpile here and whilst it will be in your fort it will technically be outside and won't generate miasma.

{{L|bone|Bones}}, {{L|skull|skulls}}, and {{L|shell|shells}} are also stored here, whether they be from defeated enemies or raw food processing. If left outdoors, these will randomly disappear, but will remain indefinitely if stored indoors, currently{{version|0.31.03}} you cannot create refuse piles that will only store {{L|bone|bones}}, {{L|skull|skulls}}, and {{L|shell|shells}}.

Note that a refuse stockpile is not the same as a {{L|Activity_zone#Garbage_Dump|garbage dump}}. A garbage dump is only for things manually marked to be dumped. Additionally, refuse types specifically marked as '''Dwarves Dump '''''refuse type'' in {{k|o}}-{{k|r}} will be hauled to the garbage dump instead of the refuse stockpile.

Also note that if you allow bins to be used on your refuse pile, damaged clothing will be stored in it, allowing for more efficient use of your pile.

==={{L|Stone}}===
Rough stone will be stored here, as well as {{L|ore}}. Given the extreme abundance of stone, it is very likely for this stockpile to fill up quickly, making stone stockpiles largely ineffective for {{L|Stone_management|dealing with excess stone}}. Probably the best use of stone stockpiles is to make sure that workshops and smelters, catapults, and impending construction projects have their materials close at hand. Be aware that these things can use up a lot of stone very quickly, leading to your dwarves scurrying around the fortress trying to keep up. To avoid stone hauling when you don't want it, you can slow down or stop the nearby usage, allowing the stockpile to fill back up (and thus no longer need more stone), or you can set the dwarves to ignore minerals in {{key|o}}rders and options.

==={{L|Weapon|Weapons}}===
Weapons of all types are stored here by default, including the weapons that dwarves do not use and trap components. {{L|Bin|Bins}} can be used to consolidate up to 10 weapons of any type.

==={{L|Wood}}===
Chopped trees are brought to the wood stockpile before being used by the carpenter's, woodburner's or siege workshop. Because wood takes a long time to haul and tends to travel a long way, the stockpile should be rather close to a fortress entrance (which does not necessarily mean on the upper z-levels - moving down one z-level is only one tile), unless you have an {{L|Tower-cap|underground tree farm}}. It is a good idea to position this stockpile close to your carpenter's workshop (or the other way round) since he is likely to be the main "customer".

=== Custom stockpiles ===

With custom stockpiles you can change which types of materials, goods, etc, can be stored in that pile. Any types of things can be mixed, so you could have a stockpile that will hold raw {{L|turtle}}, {{L|mechanism|mechanisms}} and all stone types apart from {{L|onyx}} if you wanted, or only high-quality steel crossbow bolts (Ammo), all quivers (a Finished Good), and metal Crossbows (a Weapon) - the combinations are endless, and can be finely tuned. Highlighting a stockpile with {{key|q}}, then pressing {{key|s}} will allow you to adjust the stockpile settings or in the {{key|p}} menu you can press {{key|t}} to adjust a custom stockpiles settings before placing it with {{key|c}}. Note that many sub-menus consist of several pages ( the 'other' menu of stone e.g. consists of several pages while 'metal {{L|ore|ores}}' and 'economic' consist of only one ).

Note that using {{key|q}} also allows you to adjust the number of bins or barrels that a stockpile will use. By default, if the item can be stored, it will try to fill the entire stockpile with that type of container. This can be troublesome, especially early in the game when you don't have nearly enough to go around.

== Stockpile Settings ==
The '''Stockpile Settings''' screen is weird to use. In the first column are the major categories. In the second column there may or may not be subcategories. In the third you will see the individual items. The second and third columns are only visible when a category is enabled and selected.

You navigate this screen with {{key|+}} and {{key|-}}, and left and right on the arrow keys. {{key|e}} and {{key|d}} are used to enable and disable the categories. {{key|a}} and {{key|b}} are used to allow or disallow all the subcategories. {{key|p}} and {{key|f}} will permit or forbid individual subcategories. These six keys work no matter which column you have selected, though the last 4 will not always be available. {{key|Enter}} will toggle individual item types.

Be careful when selecting 'block all' on the subcategories as it can make your stockpiles useless. For example, if you block all the furniture subcategories and then re-enable beds under types, the stockpile won't actually accept anything because it still registers all materials as forbidden. The correct way would be to 'forbid types' and then re-enable beds.

== Notes ==
Some categories will have a special extra type of item(s) that can be toggled with {{key|u}} and sometimes {{key|j}}.

{| border="1" cellpadding="4"
|+
! Categories
! Item type
|-
| Animals
| Empty cages and Empty animal traps
|-
| Food
| Prepared food
|-
| Furniture
| Sand bag
|-
| Weapons
| usable and unusable
|-
| Armor
| usable and unusable
|}

If you disable an item or items that are already sitting in a stockpile then they become loose items and your dwarves will move them to a more suitable stockpile should one exist.

== Uses for Custom Stockpiles ==

A custom stockpile is most useful for food, furniture, and bar/block stockpiles, to prevent your lye and venom sitting next to the {{L|kitchen|kitchens}}, your {{L|floodgate|floodgates}} and mechanisms near the {{L|room|rooms}} that need {{L|statue|statues}} and doors, your stone blocks next to the forges, and your metal bars by the farms.

One use for this is to have an outdoor stockpile next to your gate that will accept all refuse except bones, shells, skins and skulls, and then an indoor pile near your craftsdwarf's workshop that will '''only''' accept these things. If you have set the option for dwarves to gather refuse from outside, the bones will be brought in once all the meat has rotted off of any carcasses outside. This means added risk to your dwarves if they try to gather refuse that is far from your gate, and additional hauling.

Another effective use of custom stockpiles is Elven trading. Make a stockpile just for elf-safe trade goods: most categories where it's relevant have a 'materials' option.

A highly efficient method is to have wood burning furnaces feeding into a '{{L|charcoal}} only' bar/blocks stockpile, which in turn is near the smelting furnaces and forges. Bonus points if you also place a small wood stockpile near the wood furnaces.

Other good uses:
* Planter's stock: {{L|seed|seeds}} and {{L|potash}}. (If your {{L|ashery}} is nearby, include ashes and lye.
* Smelter stock: {{L|ore|ores}} and {{L|flux}}.
* Sandpile: {{L|sand}} bags.
* Clothes Plus: a cloth stockpile that also includes {{L|dye|dyes}}. (Dyes normally count as food.)
* Food Plus: a food stockpile that includes barrels. This spares your dwarves from carrying empty barrels to and from the furniture stores.
* Skins: a refuse stockpile limited to {{L|skin|skins}}, a bit like the bone & shell stockpile above. Place near the tannery.
* Brewer's stock: {{L|List of crops|brewable plants}}.
* Refreshment stand: Since dwarves drink twice as often as they eat, having several small food stockpiles that only accept {{L|Alcohol|drinks}} scattered strategically through your fort can minimize [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoko smoko breaks]. The usefulness of this kind of stockpile is often disputed as dwarves go to the fullest barrel first, so if you can't keep your stockpile constantly filled with new full barrels of alcohol your masons might decide to run all the way over to the alcohol stockpile you have setup for your brewers or your metalsmiths. If you can keep each stockpile constantly being filled with fresh supplies of full barrels of alcohol then this can increase productivity greatly. A simple way of doing this is by keeping a brewery near each separate alcohol stockpile, or locking dwarves in so that local stockpile is the only one they can {{L|path}} to.
* Artifact materials: The massive value and effectiveness of {{L|artifact|artifacts}} means the materials used in them can have drastic effects, sometimes even into the ''{{L|Value|millions}}''. Having special stockpiles for high-value metals, stones, gems, and other such materials will make it that much easier to insure that you will get the most out of each {{L|strange mood}}. (However, even with materials-specific stockpiles, it can take a fair amount of micromanagement to get a moody dwarf to use a specific material.)
* Artifact storage: Artifacts add a great deal to the created wealth of the fortress and the loss of an artifact can result in a very bad {{L|thought}} for the creator. Keep valuable artifacts safe from {{L|thief|thieves}} in a special stockpile.
* Ingredients: Store things that are cookable but not edible, like milk and quarry bush leaves, near kitchens. For that matter, store both fat and tallow near kitchens for efficient rendering.
* Mason's Stone: Since a mason's workshop doesn't let you pick what type of stone to use, use customized stone stockpiles to provide some of that control. On maps with mass {{L|flux}} stone, a small stockpile for flux stone near masons' workshops can boost the values of stone furniture in general.

==Bugs==
*The taking from stockpile function is currently bugged.{{version|0.31.03}} Fixed. {{version|0.31.07}}
*Refuse outside your fort will no longer disappear.{{version|0.31.03}} Fixed. {{version|0.31.04}}
*It is not possible to undesignate a stockpile.{{version|0.31.12}}

[[Category:Stockpiles]]
[[Category:Items]]

40d:King

2009-04-25T23:35:45Z

Extar:

{{Noble
| noble=King
| quarters=Royal [[Bedroom]]
| dining=Royal [[Dining Room]]
| office=Royal Throne Room
| tomb=Royal Mausoleum
| stands=5
| racks=5
| chests=10
| cabinets=5
| arrival=
* Duchy, high [[value]] of architecture, roads and offerings to a Dwarven [[caravan]]
* '''or''' discover [[Adamantine]] (bugged{{version|0.27.176.38c}})
| function=
* Promote [[fortress]] to Mountainhome
}}
This is the [[dwarf]] named as ruler of the dwarf civilization in the [[civilization]]s screen. When the King arrives, your fortress will be promoted to Mountainhome and capital of that civilization.

The king may, in fact, be a Queen. She will be referred to as the King in text relating to the process of her arrival.

==Requirements==
Once your [[fortress]] becomes the capital of a [[Duke/Duchess|duchy]], 'The Incoming King' will appear on your nobles screen. You will need to reach a certain architectural [[value]], [[road]] value, and [[offering|offerings]] required (to the dwarven civ's merchants) for the King to arrive. The values needed for each vary from fort to fort, but can be viewed by examining 'The Incoming King' on the nobles screen. Offerings to merchants must actually reach the king: the merchants must make it safely off the map with your offerings.

Alternately, if you find [[adamantine]], this [[noble]] will make a surprise arrival, dressed as a [[peasant]]. Despite arriving dressed as a peasant, he will make the same room and furniture demands as otherwise.

The adamantine king was bugged in some previous versions,{{version|0.27.176.38c}} where you were not guaranteed the ruler when you discover adamantine, but instead the first dwarf in the full civ list. This may have been fixed.

==Arrival==
If the king arrives normally (i.e., not from adamantine), he will come with some Royal [[Guard]]s and an [[advisor]]. The spouses (if any) of the king's entourage will also arrive at this time, all in the form of peasants. The [[king consort|king's spouse]] will also arrive if he or she is still alive (this is dependent on history generation).

A king that comes dressed as a peasant will have no entourage, and therefore no advisor and no royal guards.

The arrival of the king makes your fortress the mountainhome. The foremost consequence of this is you will no longer receive a trade [[liaison]] from your civilization.{{Verify}}

==Demands==
Aside from his room and furniture requirements, the king makes no demands and issues no mandates.

[[Category:Nobles]]

40d:Economics

2009-04-25T23:35:16Z

Extar:

:''For the game concept added with the baron, see [[Dwarven economy]].''
= Overall Economic Flowchart =
Each process on the economic flowchart has the following components:
* Inputs (on left) - the process will use up these raw materials.
* Means/Job - either a [[building]] where the process is assigned, or (if in italics) a tool which the worker must have to carry out the process. Following the slash is a job title - this job must be enabled on a [[dwarf]] or that dwarf will not participate in that level of the economic path.
* Outputs (on right) - These are the goods that are produced by the economic activity in question.

== Raw Materials ==

[[Walls]] -> [[Pick]]/[[Mining]] -> [[Stone]], some of which is also [[Ore]] or [[Flux]] or [[Gems]] or [[Coal]] or [[Lignite]]
:{{K|d}}esignate -> Mine

[[Chop down trees|Trees]] -> [[Battle axe]]/[[Wood Cutter]] -> [[Wood]]
:{{K|d}} -> Chop Trees)

[[Walls]] -> [[Engraving|Stone Detailing]] -> [[Rooms#Room_grades|Room Quality]]
:{{K|d}} -> Smooth Stone and {{K|d}} -> Engrave Stone
:Stone detailing increases the architectural value of floors and walls so improved. Boulders on the surface can also be smoothed so as to not impede wagon access.

[[Water]] -> [[Fishing]] -> Raw [[Fish]]
:{{K|i}} -> Fishing is performed from the bank immediately above and next to a water source. Defining an [[activity zone]] is optional.

Wild [[Animals]] -> [[Weapon]]/[[Ambusher|Hunting]] -> [[Corpse|Corpses]]
:Dwarves will do this automatically without your input after the labour is enabled. [[Hunt]]ing can be a dangerous task, see the relevant article for details.

[[Bush|Shrubs]] -> [[Herbalist|Gather Plants]] -> [[Crops]]
:Use {{K|d}} ->{{K|p}} to designate an area in which to gather.

== Secondary Products ==
:Only raw materials needed as input. Note that [[furnace]]s have a separate submenu from [[workshop]]s. Kennels and farm plots lack a submenu altogether.

[[Seed]] -> [[Farm plot]]/[[Farming|Farming(fields)]] -> [[Crops]]

[[Crops]] -> [[Food#Eating|Eating]] -> [[Seed]] x 2
:Note that [[muck root]]s do not have seeds.

Raw [[Fish]] -> [[Fishery]]/[[Fish cleaner|Fish Cleaning]] -> [[Fish]]

[[Corpse]] -> [[Butcher's Shop]]/[[Butchery]] -> [[Meat]] (which is [[Food]]), [[Fat]], [[Skin]], [[Bones]], [[Skulls]]

[[Stone]] -> [[Mason's workshop]]/[[construction|Masonry]] -> [[Furniture]], and [[Blocks]]; [[Quern]]s and [[Millstone]]s.

[[Stone]] -> [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]/[[Craft#Crafts|Stonecrafting]] -> [[Craft]], [[Weapon|Short Sword]]

[[Stone]] -> [[Mechanic's workshop]]/[[Mechanics]] -> [[Mechanism]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Carpenter's workshop]]/[[construction|Carpentry]] -> [[Furniture]], [[Blocks]], [[Container|Barrels]], [[Container|Bins]], [[Bed]]s

[[Wood]] -> [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]/[[Craft#Crafts|Woodcrafting]] -> [[Craft]], [[Bolts]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Carpenter's workshop]]/[[Skills|Trapping]] -> [[Animal Trap]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Bowyer's workshop]]/[[Bowyer]] -> [[Crossbow|Wooden Crossbow]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Wood furnace]]/[[Wood burner|Wood burning]] -> [[Charcoal|Fuel]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Wood furnace]]/[[Wood burner|Wood burning]] -> [[Ash]]

[[Wood]] -> [[Siege Workshop]]/[[Siege engineer]] -> [[Siege engine]] parts and ammunition

== Other Products ==
===Animal Products===
Some [[Fish]] -> [[Food#Eating|Eating]] -> [[Shell]] and/or [[Bone]]

Wild [[Animal]] -> [[Animal Trap]]/[[Trapping]] -> Captured [[Animals]]

Tame [[Animals]] -> [[Kennels]]/[[Animal Training]] -> Trained [[Animals]]
:Not all animals can be tamed. A [[Dungeon master]] is required to tame more exotic creatures.

Captured [[Animals]] -> [[Kennels]]/[[Animal Training]] -> Tame [[Animals]]
:Only dogs can be trained without [[modding]].

Tame [[Animal]] -> [[Butcher's Shop]]/[[Butchery]] -> [[Corpse]]
:{{K|z}}-Animals-Ready for Slaughter
:{{K|u}}->Select the Animal Unit->Set "Ready for Slaughter" to (Y) if there's a specific animal you want to set for slaughter. Note that pets cannot be slaughtered.

[[Fat]] -> [[Cooking]]?/[[Kitchen]] -> [[Tallow]]

[[Tallow]], [[Lye]] -> [[Soaper]]/[[Alchemist's laboratory]] -> [[Soap]]
:[[Soap]] is a valuable [[trade|trade good]]. It is not used used to manufacture anything, but can be used for [[construction]].

[[Skin]] -> [[Tannery|Tanning]]/[[Tannery]] -> [[Leather]]

[[Leather]] -> [[Leatherworks]]/[[Leatherworking]] -> [[Armor]], [[Bags]], [[Backpack]]s, [[Clothing]], [[Decoration]], [[Quiver]]s, [[Waterskin]]s

[[Bone]] -> [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]/[[Bonecarving]] -> [[Craft]], [[Bolts]], [[Armor]], [[Decoration]]

[[Bone]] -> [[Bowyer's workshop]]/[[Bowyer]] -> [[Crossbow|Bone Crossbow]]

[[Shell]] -> [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]/[[Bonecarving]] -> [[Craft]], [[Decoration]], [[Armor]]

[[Skull]] -> [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]/[[Bonecarving]] -> [[Totem]]

=== Metal ===
:The various "Magma" variants all require [[Magma]], and use less [[Refined coal|refined coal]] ("fuel") - no refined coal at all if you don't make steel.
:The reaction table for which Ores make which [[metal]]s and/or alloys is complex and beyond the scope of this article. see [[Ore]] for details.
:Metals often have unique properties and not all are suitable for all purposes, see the article for a given product for details.
:Material requirements for individual metal items vary. Detailing the exact material cost for every piece of furniture and equipment is beyond the scope of this article, but it is generally one bar for most items and three bars for armour and furniture.

[[Ore]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Metal|Metal bars]]

[[Ore]] x ? + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> Various [[Alloy]]

[[Ore]] -> [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Metal|Metal bars]]

[[Ore]] x ? -> [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> Various [[Alloy]]

[[Lignite]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Coke]] x2

[[Lignite]] -> [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Coke]] x2

[[Bituminous Coal]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Coke]] x3

[[Bituminous Coal]] -> [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Coke]] x3

[[Iron Bars]] + [[Flux]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]] or [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Pig Iron]]

[[Pig Iron]] + [[Iron Bars]] + [[Flux]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]] or [[Magma Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Steel Bars]] x 2

:To stay in steady operation, smelt [[iron]] ore twice, then [[pig iron]] once, then [[steel]] bars once. The four operations together produce 2 steel. Magma halves the fuel cost but does not eliminate it.

[[Metal|Metal Bars]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Smelter]]/[[Smelting]] -> [[Alloy]]

:Making alloys directly from ore whenever possible will save fuel.

[[Metal|Metal Bars]] + [[Fuel]] -> [[Metalsmith's Forge]]/[[Metal crafter|Metal crafting]] or [[Blacksmith]]ing -> [[Furniture]], [[Craft]]s, [[Coins]]

[[Metal]], [[Fuel]] -> [[Metalsmith's Forge]]/[[Armorsmith]] -> [[Armor]]

[[Metal]], [[Fuel]] -> [[Metalsmith's Forge]]/[[Weaponsmith]] -> [[Weapon]]

[[Metal]], [[Fuel]] -> [[Metalsmith's Forge]]/[[Trapping]] -> [[Animal trap]]

[[Metal]] + [[Wood]] -> [[Siege Workshop]]/[[Siege engineer]] -> Ballista arrowhead

=== Misc ===

Empty [[Bags]] -> [[Glass Furnace]] / [[Item Hauling]] -> [[Sand]]
:You need to assign the collect sand job to a glass furnace, AND designate a sand collection activity zone with {{K|i}}.

[[Sand]] -> [[Glass Furnace]] / [[Glassmaker|Glassworking]] -> Raw [[green glass]] gems, [[Furniture]], [[Weapon|Trap components]]

[[Sand]] + [[Pearlash]] -> [[Glass Furnace]] / [[Glassmaker|Glassworking]] -> Raw [[Clear glass]] gems, [[Furniture]], [[Weapon|Trap components]]

[[Rock crystal]] + [[Pearlash]] -> [[Glass Furnace]] / [[Glassmaker|Glassworking]] -> Raw [[Crystal glass]] gems, [[Furniture]], [[Weapon|Trap components]]

[[Barrel]], [[Crops]] -> [[Still]]/[[Brewing]] -> [[Alcohol]], [[Seed|Seeds]]

[[Seeds]], [[Crops]], [[Meat]], [[Alcohol]], [[Fish]], [[Milk]], [[Cheese]], and/or [[Tallow]] -> [[Kitchen]]/[[Cooking]] -> [[Food#Prepared_food|Prepared Meals]]
: All byproducts ([[seeds]], [[bones]], [[shells]], etc.) are destroyed by cooking. Use the {{K|z}} kitchen menu to set which items will be cooked and which will be saved. Dwarves will still eat items that are disabled from cooking to produce byproducts.

[[Crops]] -> [[Farmer's workshop]]/[[Thresher|Threshing]] -> [[Thread]] + [[Seeds]]

[[Thread]] -> [[Loom]]/[[Weaver|Weaving]] -> [[Cloth]]

[[Cloth]] -> [[Clothier's shop]]/[[Clothier|Clothesmaking]] -> [[Clothing]], [[Bag]]s, [[Restraint]]s, [[Decoration]]

= Economic Management =
== Stockpiles ==
: Due to the way the interface works, the key to maintaining flow in your [[workshop]]s is to have properly positioned and well-maintained [[stockpiles]].

: [[Clutter]] has a severe impact on productivity, so minimizing the dwarf-labor required to clear finished goods out of your workshops is key to maintaining their productivity.

: It is also important, especially in a mature fortress with a division of labor, to have goods close at hand so that [[legendary]] dwarves don't have to walk all over the fortress to get what they need.

: One way to achieve this is to locate small stockpiles (3x3 suggested) near the workshop to hold the raw materials needed. By keeping the stockpiles small, less labour will be required to fill them. On the other hand, if they are too small, you risk running out before highly skilled dwarves finish their shifts!

: Specific guidelines follow.

=== Stone ===
: [[Stone]] is so abundant that you almost never need large stone stockpiles. If you want your [[stonecrafter]]s or [[mason]]s to use a choice variety of stone (such as [[obsidian]]), and have plenty of excess hauling labor, place a 3x3 or 4x4 stockpile near to the workshop, and restrict it to only a few high-value varieties of stone.
: Flux, Fuel and Ore are covered below.

=== Flux and Ore ===
: A handy flux stockpile is absolutely key to maintaining efficient throughput in making steel. Steel is very labor intensive to begin with and if your furnace operators have to go a long way to get materials, you're over and done.
: On the other hand, if you have any flux at all, it's probably marble and you probably have lots of it.
: So a large flux stockpile will divert all hauling labor into filling it up.
: Generally speaking, a 3x3 stockpile should be plenty, but keep it absolutely as close to your furnaces as possible.

: The same considerations apply with ore and furnace fuel, but larger stockpiles are generally less of a problem, because there aren't 800 units of ore to haul. A skilled furnace operator can smelt direct-use ores *very* quickly, so consider a large stockpile for ore once a high skill level is achieved.
: In general, a full time [[wood burner]] will produce more Charcoal and more [[ash]] than a set of magma furnaces (even making steel) will actually use, so you may want to allow the wood furnace to get cluttered and then shut it off; but you should still build a fuel stockpile.
: If you don't have magma you're going to be burning fuel like crazy.

=== Lumber ===
: Lumber takes a long time to haul down from the surface, so lumber stockpiles should be quite a bit larger, as this can introduce a significant lag in refilling them, you'll want some cushion.
: There's also a big labor input issue - either it takes even longer to haul from the surface, or it takes your intermediary dwarf a long time to get the lumber.
: In general, I recommend placing your lumber stockpile near the surface, and placing the lumber using workshops or furnaces as nearby as possible.
: This means it may take a long time to haul your ashes or charcoal to your forges for use, but that hauling job can be handled by a [[peasant]], while the Wood Burner has to haul the logs into the furnace himself.

=== Finished Goods ===
: Firstly, life without [[bin]]s is unlivable. If you have to make them out of metal, I suggest [[copper]] or [[lead]]. But few start locations are so [[wood]] deprived that one log is harder to come by than 3 metal bars. You'll want more bins than you can possibly make, so make as many as you can.
: Once you have bins, it becomes much easier to haul finished goods to your trade [[depot]], since the dwarves haul the bin with them. However, goods have to be hauled one at a time from the workshop and then placed in bins. I'm hoping that this is a high priority for change, since it's a major pain in the arse, but there you are. So, your finished goods stockpile should be as close to your workshops as possible, and you should only haul items to the trade depot once they've been placed in bins.

=== Misc. Products ===

: [[Refined coal]] of every kind, as well as [[Ash]], [[Potash]] and [[Soap]], are classified and stored as bars.

[[category: Economy]]

40d:Design strategies

2009-04-25T23:33:40Z

Extar:

==Fortress defense==
See [[fortress defense]].

== 3D map format ==
For more information on how to dig passages and structures in a 3D map, see [[digging]].

== Interior design ==
It may seem obvious to experienced players but it should be stated explicitly: for maximal efficiency your dwarves should spend the least amount of time moving about and the most time doing productive things. Fortress interior design is critical to productivity.

===Bedroom design===
See [[bedroom design]].

===Workshop Logistics===

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently.

Pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required (smelter, smith..), it is better to make specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

One way of doing this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level like this:

(view from above)

Level 0:
<pre>
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|W|W|W|`
|`|.|.|>|>|.|.|`|.|.|>|>|.|.|`
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`

</pre>
Level -1:
<pre>
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`
|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`
|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`|i|i|i|i|i|i|`
|.|.|.|<|<|.|.|.|.|.|<|<|.|.|.
|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`
|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`
|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`|o|o|o|o|o|o|`
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`
</pre>

i=input item o=output item W=workshop

Alternatively you can place input above and output below the workshops or the other way round, depending, for example, on the location of your trade depot. Additional stairs may be useful.

==== Moody Dwarves ====
One important consideration of workshops includes design to account for moody dwarves. Open workshops might be easy and convenient, but make containment in the case of a berserk dwarf difficult. One such layout that takes this into consideration is as follows:
<pre>
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|`|`|┼|`|┼|`|`|`
|`|`|`|`|X|`|`|`|`
|`|`|`|┼|`|┼|`|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W|`
|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`|`
</pre>

Key: W: Workshop, X: up/down staircase

Access and stockpiles are placed above and below the room. Similar workshops can be grouped together for easier checking on, and a door can be locked should a moody dwarf's wishes be unmet. This concept can be used for your entire fortress:

Below you can see a piece from around the central staircase, to see how the design should start. Notice that it is pretty modular, you can have two workshops pushed together, or you can separate them all, and you have a couple options on how you set up your entrances, connecting two workshops with one door, or leaving them with separate entrances. Up to you. Notice the initial diagonal terminates at a workshop, and starts the grid pattern.

<pre>
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|`|`|`|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|`|`|`|`|`
|.|.|.|.|.|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|.|.|.|.|.|.
|`|`|`|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|.|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|`|X|`|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|.|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W
|`|`|`|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`
|.|.|.|.|.|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|.|.|.|.|.|.
|`|`|`|`|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|`|`|`|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|W|W|W|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`
</pre>

Key: W: Workshop, X: up/down staircase

The floors alternate workshop/storage. On workshop floors the diagonals immediate to the main stairway are mined out a couple spaces to make room for the first workshops; around those you can start mining in straight lines and start a grid pattern. For storage floors you can leave a wall of stone around the staircase with only one or two walls mined out for access; then mine out everything around it. On the ground level you start by mining into a cave, clear out space for a trade depot, and mine out one spot where you build a single downward staircase; here the entire fortress starts. It works great and is very efficient, though it takes a while to get setup right.

====Decentralized Workshop Complex====
Designed for use with the [[Bedroom_Design#Decentralized_Living|decentralized living]] plan, this plan emphasizes fine-grained planning with many small, specific stockpiles and planned workshop quarters. It therefore requires some micro-management to get going. However, once you have it working, things work extremely smoothly and you should never have a significant delay in production again.

[[Image:Workshops.GIF]]

Total workshop loadout for 1 floor:
* Sixteen (16) 3x3 workshops
* Four (4) 4x3 workshops
* Two (2) 5x5 workshops

Maximum walk to stockpile on same wing: 18.

The light gray crosses are optional doors. They can be useful for sealing off a Kitchen or Butcher's Shop to keep [[miasma]] from annoying the neighbors. Beyond that, the blue field is the stairwell access (recommend separate up stairs and down stairs for safety reasons), and the gray fields are stockpiles.

4x3 workshops are useful for workshops with strange blocked square formations (the Bowyer's shop is an example). They can also be nice for setting up a tiny 1x2 or 1x3 stockpile for a specific workshop - with bins, this can be a significant reserve of material. Imagine a Clothier or Leatherworker with 3 full bins of cloth or leather right next to them.

The 5x5 workshops are useful for [[shop]]s, [[kennel]]s, and [[siege workshop]]s. You can even put your [[trade depot]] in one of them if you've got a mind to. Maintaining proper security can be a nightmare in that situation (remember that [[troll]]s and others can break down doors and floodgates), but if you manage to get it done it can be a trader's dream come true. They can also be useful for making a specialty shop with a few stockpiles designed to accomplish only one thing (encrusting statues with gems, for example).

The 3x3 workshops are best organized into wings, where a pair of workshops share a similar function with the pair directly next to them. They share stockpile space better this way. When set up correctly, less than 10 dwarves will regularly use each stockpile room, so traffic is a non-issue. There tends to be a lot of dwarves in the halls, though, because [[peasant]] haulers visit the workshops frequently, hence the 3-wide corridors.

Finally, this design offers lots and lots of wall space for smoothing and engraving. Free wealth is good.

====Fluid workshop locations====
Alternatively, you can employ a "work site" methodology where workshops are constructed and destroyed as necessary. For example, if you mine out a huge dining hall and it is completely filled with stone, build a masonry shop in the hall to manufacture tables and chairs. This eliminates the need for a stone hauler because your mason only has to travel a few squares to get raw material. In addition it makes furniture hauling more efficient because the tables and chairs are right next to their eventual location. And of course it clears stone out of your dining hall, eliminating the need for a refuse hauler to dump it all.

==Miscellaneous strategies==

===Use for soil layers===
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

Since soil is primarily located near the surface, where a trade depot is often built, it is very useful to dig out large spaces for furniture and finished goods in soil for several reasons. First, it produces no stone, and is thus very fast to dig out. Secondly, having finished goods as close to the trade depot as possible is necessary for efficient trading.

===Curtain Walls, Orchards and Farmland===
Just because your fortress is underground doesn't mean it has to start there! If you have the labour and the means, a wall outside of your fortress gate, enclosing an area, can be a great way to claim a little land for yourself. You don't even necessarily have to use your front gate either, as you can wall in an area completely, with no entrance, and then open a door through the mountain. Though time-consuming, this will allow you to better weather sieges, by a variety of means. The area can be used to plant above-ground crops, or allow trees to grow as an emergency reserve. Natural ponds can be walled into your fortress's overall design, and clever use of underground rivers to feed them can provide fish and turtles even in a siege. Dwarves can also safely work here to avoid cave adaptation. Furthermore, with a good supply of stone you can just mine straight down and build a curtain wall around the entrance, so if you're challenging yourself on a map without a mountain, this is a good long-term strategy for defense against siege.

===C-Chute===
The C-Chute, or Casualty Chute, is a special internal construction for fortresses with large underground areas mostly disconnected with the surfaces, especially if a fortresses defenses are primarily internal. Basically, a deep pit within the fortress walls, down which goes any dead goblins, wildlife, kolbolds and so forth. They are allowed to decay, but the miasma is too far from the areas dwarfs use to affect your fortress. Once they have rotted away completely, you can enter the chute to retrieve their bones, without ever having to go outside! Also useful for fortresses often under siege, where moving bodies outside is not always possible. This is better than using a room to dispose of the bodies, as the dwarfs dumping the bodies will not have to deal with miasma from other corpses in the dump zone.

===Avoiding Cave Adaptation===
[[Cave adaptation]] is something you will generally want to avoid. By utilizing a lighted central stair column, it is possible to make it so that dwarves will be constantly exposed to light and thus avoid cave adaptation. You can light your central column by using a design similar to the one illustrated below (side view)

<pre>
|s|u|r|f|a|c|e
|_|`|_|_|_|`|_
|`|`|`|x|`|`|`
|`|`|_|x|_|`|`
|`|`|_|x|_|`|`
|`|`|_|x|_|`|`
|`|`|_|x|_|_|_
|`|`|_|x|_|`|`
|`|`|`|x|`|`|`
</pre>

Start by digging your stairway column all the way to the surface. Next, channel out the surface layer and replace it with either a floor or stairway, depending on your design strategy. Channel out the next layer below the newly-constructed layer, and replace it appropriately. Repeat all the way down the column, and you should have lighted stairs all the way up and down through your fortress. A wall around the top will provide safety from invaders (a hatch cover will make the stair column count as inside, which won't prevent cave adaptation). Note that if you turn on Dwarves stay inside you'll forbid the dwarves from using your stairway.

Another form you can use is to place your dining hall just under the surface. dig out a section of your new hall and use a chair-table-chair etc down. When you channel out the top, dig out the area above the chairs, leaving the tables in the still-undug land. This will force your dwarves to eat in the sunlight, and since they take a while (depending on the meal) they'll avoid adaptation. You have to make sure to have an excellent main gate defense so you do not have to order that they stay inside, or they'll starve.

===Dams===
See [[dam]].

[[Category:Design]]

40d:Immigration

2009-04-25T23:30:27Z

Extar:

'''Immigration''' can occur during any [[season]]. A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration.

Migrants will spawn at the edge of your local zone and move towards any meeting area that you have designated. They will travel single file from this one location until the last one of this wave has arrived.

If there is no meeting zone they will simply sit at the edge of the map until their "migrant" status fades and they find a [[job]]. Keep in mind that they can spawn on '''any''' open edge of the map, on any Z-axis; if there is no available path to your [[fortress]], they will sit and wait until one is opened up or until they go crazy and die. Some players have reported that their migrants spawn in the middle of nowhere. This behaviour is a bug, though an entertaining one.

The total number of [[dwarves]] in your fort is limited to 200, but you can change this in the init file. It will take several years to reach this number, assuming you want to reach it at all. Once you reach the immigration limit, normal immigration will cease.

== When does Immigration usually occur? ==
If your dwarves are very industrious numbers would be helpful here, you can expect to receive ten or more migrants in the first immigration wave, which can occur in [[autumn]] or even in [[summer]] of your first year. Immigration does usually occur from mid-spring of the second year on.

Migrants seem to have a tendency to arrive in [[spring]] but can arrive in any season.

== How immigration is calculated ==

Immigration figures are based on your fortress's total "Created [[Wealth]]" (visible on the Status (['''z''']) screen once you get a [[broker]] with the [[appraiser]] skill). All objects with any [[value]] (including mined-out areas, [[bridge]]s, and just about every kind of created [[crafts|good]]) will be included in the total. [[Artifact]]s are one of the largest influences of fortress wealth. Artifacts made of precious resources and heavily [[decoration|decorated]] can potentially double fortress wealth early in the game. Forbidden items included in your wealth "properly" as of [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html 09/02/2008].

This created wealth will be witnessed and reported back to the world by the yearly dwarven [[caravan]]. If the caravan dies before making it back to the dwarven capital (if they fail to make it off your map), then the previous caravan's report is used to determine this year's figures.{{verify}}. The other known factor that influences immigration is that dwarf deaths will make immigrating dwarves scared, reducing immigrant numbers possibly down to zero.

Immigration is rarely greater than 24 dwarves per wave, not including [[pet]]s, [[children|kids]] and spouses.

Immigration will be stopped if your fortress reaches the Population Cap set in the [[init]] file.

==Immigrants' skills==
Migrants come with no skills at all ([[peasants]]), novice level of two or three skills from a single profession, or a (no adjective) level of a single [[skill]]. Migrants will sometimes bring their spouses, [[child]]ren, and even their [[pet]] [[animal]]s. A migrant may not always come with the necessary equipment to perform their jobs. For example, a [[Wood cutter]] may come without a [[battle axe]]. Inversely, a migrant may come with equipment they ''don't'' need to do their jobs. For example, a [[Carpenter]] may come with a [[battle axe]].

=== How to influence the types of dwarves that immigrate ===
Note that the greater the number of dwarven [[civilization]]s, the greater your ability to influence immigration.{{verify}}

The immigrants' [[skills]]/[[jobs|careers]] might be influenced by the type and number of [[workshops]] available, but also might be influenced by the population of the surviving dwarven civilizations. (Similar to that [[goblin]]s sometimes have [[human]]s in their armies, that were previously snatched from you!)

[[Soldiers]] will only arrive if you have made their type of [[weapon]]; if you make one [[battle axe]], you will only get [[axedwarf|axedwarves]]. If you make a [[crossbow]] and a [[war hammer]], you will get [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] and [[hammerdwarf|hammerdwarves]]. This is not affected by weapons brought to your fort; getting immigrant [[carpenter]]s won't let you get immigrant axedwarves. It is not known if the number of weapons created matters.{{verify}}

When you meet certain requirements in your outpost, like population or created wealth, some [[nobles]] will immigrate, like the [[Dungeon master]].

== What are the drawbacks to immigration? ==
Most of the time, immigration is a ''Good Thing,'' and the more, the merrier. More dwarves means more work gets done (especially hauling, since immigrants are basically peasants), more dwarves can be given "luxury" tasks like defending the fortress or making [[dye]]d [[cloth]], and some nobles require a certain number of dwarves before they arrive. However, more dwarves also means more CPU cycles eaten up, especially if your fortress is already taxing on your computer.

Of course, additional dwarves also require additional [[bedroom]]s, workshops, and [[alcohol|booze]] before they can be properly productive, and some players prefer to increase their population slowly to allow them to add the extra infrastructure at a more sedate pace.

== How can I curb immigration? ==
The easiest method to handle immigration is to alter the population cap in init.txt. You can first set it low and raise it as you see fit. Note that you may consider this to be cheating, and it also requires exiting the game each time you want more immigrants.

You can also make sure your fort does not produce or build much. Of course, this is not an especially interesting way to play the game. Since artifacts often account for most of your fortress' wealth, killing dwarves that enter [[strange mood]]s, or turning the moods off entirely in the init file, may be a better option. This can often be accomplished by making sure all your [[workshop]]s are in enclosed [[room]]s, then locking the [[door]] on them until they go [[insane]], then starve to death. This has a drawback in that dwarves that do manage to produce an artifact often gain a desirable [[legendary]] [[skill]]. Lock the door at your own discretion.

You can also kill the immigrants themselves, deliberately or otherwise. Large numbers of deaths will lead to the event announcement "Some immigrants have arrived" changing to "Some immigrants have arrived, despite the danger!" Even larger numbers of deaths, about 80, will cause the announcement to be something like: "Some immigrants have come to this terrifying place despite the probability that it will become their tomb." I don't not remember the exact quote, if any of you want just make a high population fortress and then lock everyone on a floor 10 z-levels up and use one guy to remove on floor to cave it in... You need about 2.5 million fortress wealth to get any more after this but if you do, you'll get the message. Very large numbers of deaths at a fortress, from any cause, (exact number unknown) can cause all immigration (except nobles) to cease for a while: your fortress has gained a reputation as a deathtrap!
Killing nobles seems to have a magnified effect here, and killing even a single noble can cause no immigrants to arrive in the next [[season]].

== Migrants in [[Adventure Mode]] ==
Roving bands of migrants may be found on the world map. These migrants can be linked to any of the major civilizations found on the world. This includes [[goblin]]s and [[kobold]]s. Such bands will consist of non-specialized adults and children.

== Migration Effects on the World ==
It is possible for migration to change the population levels of settlements on the map over time, and to cause factions of a civilization to merge. This can be discovered through talking to individuals in Adventurer mode, and will subsequently show up in [[Legends mode]].

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:World]]

{{Starting FAQ}}

40d:Peasant

2009-04-25T23:30:04Z

Extar:

Peasants in [[fortress mode]] are civilian dwarves that have no trade [[skills]] higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants, and [[children]] who mature into adults usually become peasants if they have no other skills sufficiently developed. Peasants usually fill the role of [[hauler]]s though in times of crisis--when a militia must be raised to supplement the [[army]] and [[fortress guard]]--are also ideal candidates for drafting.

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{{Notice Box|In Progress|This page is (still) a stub. If you've verified that's something missing or incorrect here, add it in or discuss it on the talk page!}}

[[Category: Fortress mode]]

40d:Peasant

2009-01-06T15:08:06Z

Extar:

Peasants in [[fortress mode]] are dwarves that have no trade [[skills]] higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants, and [[children]] who mature into adults usually become peasants if they have no other skills sufficiently developed. Peasants usually fill the role of [[hauler]]s though in times of crisis--when a militia must be raised to supplement the [[army]] and [[fortress guard]]--are also ideal candidates for drafting.

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{{Notice Box|In Progress|This page is (still) a stub. If you've verified that's something missing or incorrect here, add it in or discuss it on the talk page!}}

[[Category: Fortress mode]]

40d:Peasant

2009-01-06T15:07:16Z

Extar:

Peasants in [[fortress mode]] are dwarves that have no trade [[skills]] higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants, and [[children]] who mature into adults usually become peasants if they have no other skills sufficiently developed. Peasants usually fill the role of [[hauler]]s though in times of crisis--when a militia must be raised--are also ideal candidates for drafting.

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{{Notice Box|In Progress|This page is (still) a stub. If you've verified that's something missing or incorrect here, add it in or discuss it on the talk page!}}

[[Category: Fortress mode]]

40d:Peasant

2009-01-06T15:02:56Z

Extar:

Peasants in [[fortress mode]] are dwarves that have no trade [[skills]] higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants and [[children]] who mature into adults usually become peasants. Peasants usually fill the role of [[hauler]]s.

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{{Notice Box|In Progress|This page is (still) a stub. If you've verified that's something missing or incorrect here, add it in or discuss it on the talk page!}}

[[Category: Fortress mode]]

Hauler

2009-01-06T15:02:33Z

Extar:

Hauler typically refers to a dwarf in [[fortress mode]] who has no labors enabled other than '[item] hauling'. Once the [[dwarven economy]] starts peasants are usually the poorest in the fortress as the hauling task only pays 1¤ and especially in large fortresses where there may be great distances for haulers to travel, individual hauling tasks may take a long time to complete. Haulers are good candidates for [[cross-training]] to help improve their strength and agility [[attributes]] which are importing to moving heavy objects across the fortress quickly.

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{{Notice Box|In Progress|This page is (still) a stub. If you've verified that's something missing or incorrect here, add it in or discuss it on the talk page!}}

[[Category: Fortress mode]]

Hauler

2009-01-06T14:59:31Z

Extar:

Hauler

2009-01-03T02:42:47Z

Extar: New page: Hauler typically refers to a dwarf in fortress mode who has no labors enabled other than '[item] hauling'. Once the dwarven economy starts peasants are usually the poorest in the f...

40d:Peasant

2009-01-03T02:36:43Z

Extar:

40d:Peasant

2009-01-03T02:36:20Z

Extar: New page: Peasants in fortress mode are dwarves that have no trade skills higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants and children who mature into ad...

Peasants in fortress mode are dwarves that have no trade [[skills]] higher than dabbling. The spouses of immigrants to the fortress often arrive as peasants and children who mature into adults usually become peasants. Peasants usually fill the role of [[haulers]].

40d:Legendary

2009-01-03T02:26:08Z

Extar: /* Cross-training Legendary dwarves */

[[Dwarves]] which repeatedly perform a specialized task will quickly gain [[skill]] levels, and within a year or two of constant labor, greatly depending on the skill, can attain '''Legendary''' ability. Tasks which do not involve time-consuming gathering of materials, especially [[mining]], [[engraving]] and [[Record keeper|record keeping]], are easy to develop quite rapidly. If you have Proficient miners dig constantly through [[stone]], they can reach Legendary skill before your first [[winter]]. Digging through dirt is far faster.

Dwarves which attain Legendary skill at any task will [[status icons|blink]] on the game screen and have a blinking name on the Unit screen.

Legendary is not the highest skill level a [[dwarf]] can attain. There are five invisible skill levels above it, all called "Legendary," but providing increasing skill. We've named them Legendary+1...Legendary+5. At Legendary+5, a dwarf will always produce at least [[quality|exceptional]] goods, whereas at Legendary through Legendary+4 superior quality is possible.

== Benefits of Legendary status ==

=== Attribute increases ===

With skill increases also come [[attributes|attribute]] increases. Legendary dwarves are typically Strong, Agile, and/or Tough – sometimes superdwarvenly so.

The specific benefits of each attribute are:

*'''Agility:''' Agile dwarves perform all tasks faster. Perfectly Agile dwarves work at nearly twice the rate as non-agile dwarves, not counting skill differences.
*'''Strength:''' High strength will increase damage done in battle{{verify}}. It will also reduce or eliminate the [[encumbrance]] penalty on a dwarf's [[speed]]. However, since it takes a lot of weight to encumber, high strength will rarely be useful for that purpose.
*'''Toughness:''' Tough dwarves are more durable in combat and heal much faster.

=== Increased productivity ===

Dwarves with Legendary skill work at a, well, legendary rate. A legendary [[miner]] will mine roughly 14-15 squares to a no-label miner's one, for instance, and a legendary engraver can smooth 25 squares in the time it takes a no-label engraver to do one. The real-time rate is dependent on CPU speed: a Perfectly Agile legendary miner can mine about FPS×2 squares per minute, or FPS×4 [[ore]] squares. This is through normal stone – dirt, and possibly other substances, are much easier to mine through.

=== Free rent ===

Like [[nobles]], Legendary dwarves are exempt from the [[dwarven economy]]: they can take any object as a personal possession without paying for it, and claim any bedroom as their own without paying rent. This helps to keep them [[thought|happy]], although some Legendary dwarves may acquire an annoying number of objects.

== Speeding skill attainment ==

If you provide item-producing dwarves ([[Mason]]s, [[Carpenter]]s, [[craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]], [[Brewer]]s, etc.) with a constant supply of nearby goods, they can quickly increase their skill levels as well. However, such dwarves can quickly produce mountains of goods, so you must allocate huge [[stockpiles]] and many dedicated haulers in order to keep their [[workshop]]s from becoming severely [[clutter]]ed. [[Farmer]]s with a nearby [[seed]] [[barrel]] and [[food]] stockpile can also gain skill quite rapidly.

== Strange moods ==

Dwarves which enter a [[strange mood]] and successfully construct an [[artifact]] object will usually gain one Legendary skill, with commensurate attribute increases. The single exception is a "possessed" mood, which will result in the creation of an artifact, but no skill increase. The skill a dwarf gains from a strange mood will be that dwarf's highest "trade" skill (generally, any skill which involves the production of finished goods, plus Mining, Engraving, and Furnace Operation). If you have your peasants train to "dabbling" in desired skills (such as Armorsmith), you will greatly increase your chance of gaining dwarves with those skills at Legendary level.

== Cross-training Legendary dwarves ==

Because their attributes are so high, Legendary dwarves can quickly develop other skills to high levels as well. This is most useful when you have many redundant Legendary dwarves in certain professions but lack them elsewhere.

It may also be useful to deliberately train dwarves in a quick skill to get them to Legendary status, then switch them to other jobs. If you wish to do this, set the dwarf as your [[Bookkeeper]] and set the options to the highest level of precision. Provided with an office and with their other jobs turned off, the dwarf will train their record keeper skill to legendary in the space of about a season, leading to legendary status extremely quickly.

As haulers are usually unskilled peasants, having them cross-trained is a good idea to improve their [[attributes]]. With more strength they can haul heavy items (or bins full of heavy items) faster, and with more agility they can generally move faster; resulting in more efficient hauling.

The [[Siege_operator|Siege Operator]] skill is also of use for training dwarves. Siege operation does not train very quickly, since it takes a few years to gain Legendary skill. On the plus side, it requires little supervision: Build a [[catapult]] and set it to fire at will. Siege operation is not considered a "trade" skill, so it will not interfere with gaining useful skills through strange moods, and having a catapult operate continuously is a good way to clear an area of loose [[stone]]. Furthermore, siege engines are of little use in combat without skilled operators. Dabbling operators take minutes to load a single [[bolt]] or stone, whereas skilled operators can load and fire several times a minute.

Another prominent skill for cross-training is the [[Pump_operator|Pump Operator]]. Simply building some [[Screw_pump|Screw Pumps]], not necessarily near water, switching them to manual pumping and assigning the skill to the dwarves to be trained results in pumping hot air for the benefit of better attributes. Operating pumps also produces no strange moods and needs little supervision. The skill gained itself is rather useless, because of the possibility of [[Water_wheel|Perpetual Motion]] within Dwarf Fortress. So nobody would really want to dedicate a couple of dwarves for this job.

Another set of skills for training are the [[Skill|Social Skills]] like Comedian, Consoler, Conversationalist, Flatterer, Intimidator, Judge of Intent, Liar, Negotiator, Pacifier and Persuader. They are gained for tasks like trading, but also for simple chatting among the dwarves. This happens occasionally, uncontrolled, and at [[Party|parties]]. A way to force this chatter is designating only a single 1x1 meeting area [[Zone]]. All idling/breaking dwarves will flock to this area (resulting in a 3x3 dwarf pile), and a storm of communication ensues. So giving your dwarves more spare time will increase their training. Because they train not only one, but several skill (there are 10), reaching legendary status in all of them usually means that their [[Attributes|dwarf attributes]] will be maxed. Oddly enough, some dwarves seem to ignore/do not use one or two of the social skills, e.g. some honest dwarf may never use the liar skill. But that has no real effect one the training. Gaining strength and toughness through talking is a little unusual, so it has already been suggested to remove attribute gain from improving this skills. But on the other hand, chatting among dwarves may also contain some brawling. It is also worth noting that allowing your dwarves to be socialites will make a significant chunk of the fortress friendly with each other very quickly. This might seem like a good thing, since making and talking to friends gives a [[thoughts|happy thought]], but dwarves also take the death of friends much harder than they otherwise might, increasing the risk of a tail spin of [[tantrum]]s. Another fact is that it seems to have an effect how many dwarves are chatting simultaneously, the more the merrier, meaning faster skill gain. So seeing 70 idlers may be a good thing for once. Again, no strange moods in this skills, and little supervision, but almost an exploit.

[[Category:Dwarves]]

40d:Strand extractor

2009-01-03T02:18:18Z

Extar:

'''Strand extractor''' is the labor associated with processing [[adamantine]] ore into strands. It takes place in a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]. Processing adamantine ore is very time consuming for a dwarf with a low extraction [[skill]] and so it is worth only allowing the labor on one dwarf to train the skill faster.

[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Strand extractor

2009-01-03T02:15:14Z

Extar:

'''Strand extractor''' is the labor associated with processing [[adamantine]] ore into strands. It takes place in a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]. Processing adamantine ore is very time consuming with a low extraction [[skill]].

[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Captain of the guard

2009-01-03T02:03:11Z

Extar:

{{Noble
| noble=Captain of the guard
| quarters=Quarters
| dining=Dining Room
| office=Office
| stands=1
| racks=1
| chests=1
| cabinets=1
| arrival=
* 50 population
| function=
* [[Justice]]
* [[fortress guard|Fortress Guard]]
}}
Your [[sheriff]] noble gets promoted to Captain of the Guard at a population of 50 dwarves, along with the [[expedition leader]]'s promotion to [[Mayor]]. If you have managed your Fortress up to this point without a sheriff, the position of the Captain of the Guard will be vacant and you can assign one. The current Sheriff/Captain can still be removed from office and the post once again be vacant.

The Captain of the Guard leads the [[fortress guard]], which aids the Captain in the enforcement of [[justice]]. Assigning dwarves to the fortress guard delights the Captain, and is important to ensure that justice is dispensed in a timely manner. This, in turn, is important because if justice is not dispensed quickly by the guard, the [[Hammerer]] will do the job instead.

[[Category:Nobles]]

User:Extar

2008-11-21T05:00:51Z

Extar:

{{Gametext|Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [http://extarscube.com website] lately. He plugged a website lately. He slept in a good bedroom recently. He was disgusted by a miasma lately. He was caught in the rain recently.}}
{{Gametext|Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, the colour black, denim, band t-shirts, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.|#0f0}}
{{Gametext|He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He is modest. He enjoys the company of others. He has a fertile imagination. He dislikes confrontations. He dislikes self-aggrandisement. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.}}

40d Talk:Soldier

2008-11-21T05:00:03Z

Extar: /* The enemy of my enemy is my friend */

I currently have a champion who will not obey orders. She has picked a station herself and remains there no matter what I do. Is this a champion behavior in 2.7?--[[User:Mlcy]]
:Champions always behaved that way as far as I know. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:40, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== No more sparring? ==

For some reason, my military has stopped sparring. I have 4 Wrestler Champions, 2 Wrestler Elites, 1 Wrestler, and they're all 'Soldier'ing. I now want to bring them all up to legendary Swordsdwarves too, but they just. Won't. Train. They have swords and a barracks, and they're not on duty. Still no training. Help? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 07:09, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Make sure there is a barrack designated for them to train. You may have unconstructed one of the furniture from which you've designated the room, so you'd need to do it again. Also, dwarves need to train in pair, and they don't always train. They often take breaks. This mean that the biggest the amount of trainees you have, the greatest the chance two of them will head at the same time to the barracks to train. Also, they will never train unless you go in the military screen, enter each individual squad setting with {{K|v}} and then hit {{K|t}} to make them "stand down". Don't forget to do exactly the same again to place them "on duty" if you ever want to send them fighting again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:26, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:: Viable barracks, check. Several pairs, check. Stood down, check. The weird thing is that they were sparring like nutters in order to get up to Champion, and then they all just lost interest and started Soldiering. I note above that Champions have a mind of their own - maybe they can't be trained to legendary in an additional weapon, or stop sparring altogether at legendary? Also, there's an unresolved post in the bug forum that suggests that dwarves only spar for 3 years. Odd. I'm not hugely bothered because there's nothing for the army to kill; no sieges and no megabeasts. Bit boring, really. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:31, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::: I think I ran into the "no sparring after 3 years" bug, as my champions stopped sparring after around 3-4 years, then never sparred for the next 10 years, even when I drafted new recruits. They started sparring when I (f)reed the existing barracks and redesignated a new one from an armor rack instead of a bed.--[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 00:02, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== only water? ==
Do soldiers only drink water? Both those who carry water and those who dont, complain about not having had booze for too long and becoming slow. Even the ones who are standing down dont seem to get booze. My piles are loaded and my civilians are ok, so that cant be the problem. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:26, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:They should only do that if you have them set to use waterskins. It's generally better to just have them not use waterskins so that they'll go for a refreshing alcoholic beverage when they need a drink like regular dwarves. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:11, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:: I think i have it worked out; they don't drop the waterskin, even if you make them civilians or tell them not to carry water, and they use up the water inside before going for booze again. What you can do is order the waterskin dumped and a fellow dwarf will take it off him. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:09, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Cluttering my stockpiles ==

My soldiers are leaving their junk, mostly clothing, laying all over the place. I have a barracks room with about 20 beds in it, although its all the same room. Can I just throw some coffers in the barracks room for them to put their stuff, or do I need to designate individual rooms with containers in them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:33, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I made each of the beds separate rooms and put in a bunch of coffers, they are not moving their stuff, do i have to assign the barracks bedrooms, or will they claim them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:17, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I feel dumb now. I am putting cabinets in the rooms as well... --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:28, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Alright, I have cabinets next to every bed, as well as coffers, and they are assigned to dwarfs. They still are not moving their possessions. Is there any other way to move them? Dumping does not work, and neither do stockpiles for that item. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 14:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:Undraft them and wait. If you are lucky, they might decide to clean their junk. If you are VERY lucky. They won't do it, while drafted, EVEN if they are standing down.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks for the tip, they seem to be cleaning up their stuff... very very slowly. I think this is going to take awhile. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:01, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== Overcoming Sobriety ==

I left a Champion on Use Waterskin for too long, and now he's beyond caring about the world. Any idea how long he'll take to drink himself out of his apathy? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 14:32, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'm confused... you can't directly make a dwarf only drink water. Anyway, "beyond caring" is, IIRC, caused by seeing lots of death, and it's a good thing (I believe it limits the effect of negative thoughts, while also limiting positive ones). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 18:37, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::Actually, a soldier assigned a waterskin will indeed drink only water, which is why you should ''never assign them waterskins''. Hrmph. And "not caring about anything anymore" is caused by witnessing a lot of death, and is, like you say, a good thing, despite how it sounds.

::Did the soldier get back on the bottle, Romeo?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:57, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== The Cripple Squad ==

I have a military consisting of roughly a half marksdwarves, a fifth champions, and the rest melee dwarves. Unfortunatly, most of these melee users have spinal injuries (brown-ish or grey). Luckily, most of them are right below "great" in their primary skill. Would it be in my best interests to slap on a custom title and send them to do civilian work?

== The enemy of my enemy is my friend ==

Should we note that, at least in my game, soldiers tend to become friends with other soldiers quickly? Currently some of my nobles and even some of my more "sociable" dwarves (the ones working in areas with many other people) have no friends, yet a recently drafted recruit is already friends with one of my marksdwarves. I think this subject could do with some research (including of squadmates tend to be friends, if squad captains tend to be friends with one another, etc.)[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:Soldiers take a moment to chat after they spar together, presumably talking about their sparring. Since talking becomes part of their routine, soldiers make friends with the other soldiers pretty quickly. In most of my fortresses, most civilians are lucky to have 2 friends, while soldiers usually have 5-10.
:Incidentally, this is a huge problem for the mood of your armed forces; having a squad wiped out is quite likely to cause tantrums in the other squads. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:19, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:: Damn I keep forgetting to sign. Anyway, yeah, one of my champions happens to have something along the lines of 27 friends and all proficient or near proficient talking skills... 0_o. Now I can see destroying my (mostly friendly firing) atom smasher was an even smarter move (last time I only lost an expert marksdwarf). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
::This can also lead to soldiers falling in love and marrying quite often, leading to some of your forces wading into battle wielding babies... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:29, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::Aka meatshields.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:02, 14 November 2008 (EST)
::Soldiers divide their time between training and standing around in meeting halls. To reduce the amount of socializing they do, you can create more and larger meeting halls; however, soldiers will always follow their leaders. Even if the squad commander is sleeping in a private room, they'll all come to watch and talk with each other. At the least, smaller squads and more meeting places and barracks will mean less interaction, both in general and between squads.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 14 November 2008 (EST)

I've been trying a military-heavy fortress with at least 75% drafted and apart from the first couple of batches of recruits, most of the soldiers (upwards of forty or fifty) don't have any friends at all. Standing down soldiers have not been in squads and I've got one large barracks where everyone trains and there are no meeting halls. I suppose that in a larger army soldiers would be less likely to spar with the same dwarf twice and minimising the different opportunities for socialising in meeting halls is no doubt adding to this as well. It's actually turning out pretty useful because my army seems to be able to actually absorb losses without everyone falling into misery and unhappiness. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 00:00, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Restructure military articles? ==

How would everyone feel if I

1. moved the descriptions of the soldier classes to their respective weapon articles.
2. changed the skill articles (e.g. the "marksdwarf" page) to say something like "Marksman is the skill that controls how good you are at using a [[crossbow]]."
3. beef up each weapon article with all the info I can find regarding that weapon, its users, and how it's best used in combat.

[[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:48, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:I've been thinking that all the weapon-specific stuff should be in [[weapon]], not in separate articles: when choosing a weapon, it'd be good to have the pluses and minuses all on one page. I'd convert the prose into weapon-centric format instead of "weaponsdwarf" format.

:It's hard to get solid info on what each weapon is good for. Adventurer mode one way to test, but that doesn't tell you how effectively DF-mode dwarves fight with them. I'll share what little I know right now: ''any'' weapon, even a wooden one in the hands of a newbie, is better than wrestling. It takes forever to do real damage while wrestling. It's okay against individual weak animals but disastrous against a goblin squad. Your dwarves will either get chopped in half while wasting time, or exhausted, which makes them extremely vulnerable to damage. Wrestling skills are desirable for dodging, and a good way to keep sparring dwarves from cutting each other apart, but pathetic on offense.

:Swords and spears periodically get stuck. The only time I've seen that to be a real problem in combat is against zombies: both creatures freeze up, a bug I reported to Toady recently. Aside from that, though, swords work well. Axes work great against anything. There's really no effective defense against getting chopped into little bits. Hammers and maces work fine, at least against goblins. Despite what the article says about blunt weapons repelling the enemy, I've seen swords and axes do that as well. Maybe hammers just do it better. Regardless, anything that gets thrown backward by a blow is not getting up again. Though it does seem to me that edged weapons kill foes more quickly -- maybe because of bleeding.

:Crossbows are utterly lethal, especially in the hands of an elite marksdwarf. Even a novice with a crossbow can usually kill any single non-megabeast safely. But they run out of bolts very quickly, so never send a marksdwarf into combat alone.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:55, 19 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Military

2008-11-21T04:52:44Z

Extar: /* Injuries while sparring */

AFAIK, drafting unhappiness is more precice - ANY military skills will mitigate the "draft" thought, and ANY civilian skills will prevent grumpiness about "being relieved." Don't have proof, though, and I can't check just ATM - can someone look at this?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 20:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I checked a little. Dabbling skills are not enough, but novice military skills are sufficient to prevent unhappiness about being drafted, while novice civilian skills prevent angst when the dwarves are relived. Is it ok as long as they don't become peasants or recruits? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Tests:
* Novice Jeweler
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - did not complain
* Dabbling Butcher
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - unhappy
Will update again when dwarfs are no longer unhappy. Also, it seems to me that marksdwarves need to be stationed near the barracks to practice when they are standing down - can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I can also add results to the tests above:
* Novice Marksdwarf / Novice Butcher
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - No unhappy thought
* Novice Butcher only
** enlisted - unhappy
** unenlisted - no unhappy thought
* Novice Axedwarf / Dabbling Planter
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - unhappy.
Dwarves don't need to be stationed near the barracks for sparring practice when off-duty, mine (Axedwarves and Marksdwarves) are stationed almost 5 full screens away. [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 03:59, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Injuries while sparring ==

It IS still possible to get grievous injuries while sparring. I currently have two guards resting with injuries, one maimed and one with a broken limb. Mitigating circumstances? Near-masterwork steel battleaxes and no armor. On the other hand, none of them are Strong or anything (or Tough, for that matter). Also I just checked and I have a Wrestler with a left lung and upper spine maimed too, couldn't be from anything else but sparring with the over-equipped guards, and he was wearing iron chainmail AND was Agile, Tough. I'd make the change myself but I'm too clueless about wikis and don't want to break some law of etiquette.

I wrote the paragraph before, I shall amend if with your new information --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Interestingly, I've had no major injuries with wrestler sparring in 3 years. A couple bruises, nothing more. Only thing I can see different is that I have a massive barracks, with 3 rooms and inner doors. When they 'spar' next to each other, there can be some minor bruising, but they gain skill when they aren't next to each other. They do have iron bucklers and full steel chainmail which helps, but my barracks doesn't even have blood on the floor 95% of the time. Perhaps larger barracks are the way to go, or was I just lucky? --Gotthard 12:03, 10 December 2007 (EST)

I've had many announcements of guards/soldiers suffocating to death due to sparring with a wrestler. --Esoterrik 6:27, 4/10/08

That may have been due to miners getting critical hits with their picks, I think picks still have a massive critical boost like spears do. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 23:52, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Discarded equipment ==

I have noticed that if I have civilians wandering around who get interrupted by wild critters, if I draft them they are fairly inclined to dump whatever they are carrying and then follow orders. If their preferences are set to have certain millitary equipment then they will disregard whatever other orders I set to go off and try to make their inventory match their orders.

I don't really have a problem with any of that.
What I '''do''' have a problem with, is when I de-list/de-{{key|A}}ctivate them, they dump their millitary items wherever they happen to be.
So it means I should really only deactivate millitary types when they are close to a weapon & armour stockpile I guess?
Any other opinion/advice/observations on this issue?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== War ==

A goblin just snatched one of the babies out of my fortress.... Any way to take the war to these b@$+@rds? - [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 09:22, 23 March 2008 (EST)

:Not yet... that's the Army Arc, which Toady is working on right now. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:31, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

==Dual wield?==

(note: this is not dual wielding, this is the dwarf carrying a backup weapon slung across their back in case the first weapon becomes stuck in a combatant)
why then does my dwarf carry a short silver sword in each hand? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:00, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

My dwarves set to carry 2 weapons also drop their sheild. This does not necessarily mean that they are dual wielding, but it is a negative to them carrying 2 weapons. --[[User:Esoterrik1|Esoterrik1]] 16:27, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

==Cross-training/Reserves Program==

I think it's kind of sad that we don't have a section in this part of the wiki about cross-training or making a reserves program where you use civilian levelups to get stat increases for your military dwarves. It not only makes for better armies, it staves off unhappiness if you ever need to relieve some dwarves of duty. These little tips are spread throughout the wiki in weird places, and I think they really ought to be consolidated here. Going spit out a first draft of something like that in this spot so it can be discussed and edited before being added or put in its own page.

Please use this space (and not some spot inside the article) to discuss and note your changes. 
--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:38, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Nobody is commenting on it so I'm assuming people are fine with it. Adding this into the article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:31, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

"Internship (Bookkeeper) - Turn on Highest precision bookkeeping and rotate the appointed noble in and out the second he becomes a Legendary Bookkeeper." Can this go wrong if I don't switch the dwarf out before attaining highest precision? I have a legendary bookkeeper who attained highest precision, and now no other dwarf will take on bookkeeping jobs, despite being appointed to the job and having the office requirements met. The settings screen always reads: "Your bookkeeper has done enough work to attain the highest precision" (DF version 40d).
[[User:Edenicholas|Edenicholas]] 01:49, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
: Basically, the bookkeeper only has work if the stores change significantly enough for the precision. Unfortunately, this is not always under your direct control. *wrinkles nose* If you read through the Bookkeeper article and the associated talk pages, apparently at some point highest precision meant they worked on it frequently no matter what, but I agree that in 40d, this doesn't always seem to hold true. Ensure that you have enough stores to require frequent counting (it's what, a thousand items at least before the gain or loss of 10 or so puts you out of spec?). That's the closest I can find to actual advice for you. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 07:56, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
 
: Yeah, starting fairly recently the Bookkeeper will only do the extra work when it's needed. You can ensure that it is always needed by keeping a Gulag active (thus producing scads of stone), and keeping Mason shops active by requisitioning lots of Blocks. Also make sure to buy plenty from the caravans -- a full shipment of logs will wreak havoc on the stockpile books (lots of logs in, lots of crafts out). Still, though, it might be a good idea to make a gym and set your clerk to Pump Operation on top if it. You may end up with a Legendary Pump Operator/Adept Bookkeeper, but even by that point Bookkeeping has given the dwarf a few nice stat upgrades, and the lucky intern is now an ideal candidate for the military. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:05, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:: While I don't know if it's optimized, I used to set my Bookkeeper up as one of the fortress's hunters. Between the bookkeeping operations, he was out getting archery practice on the local wildlife. And with the legendary stat increases, he was fully capable of bashing foes through the air with his crossbow alone when he ran out of bolts. He never has increased very far on his Ambusher skill though... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:19, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

The article seems to be getting a bit long in the tooth. Perhaps split "Reserves program" and "Army engineers" into a different article? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 03:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:Agreed. The "cross-training" advice is good for any dwarf you want to beef up (which should be all of them, not just your military). The Corps of Engineers is an excessively elaborate way of saying you want one or more high-skill mason/building designers and mechanics in your fort.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:36, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

::I honestly wasn't sure where to put the Corps of Engineers bit. I considered putting it in its own article or attaching it to a couple others, but ended up putting it here because in my experience having them around benefits your military more than anything else. I haven't been around too long, so I'm not sure how people like to organize things here, so move it as it pleases you. 

::Also, the Corps advice goes beyond just a couple high skill masons and mechanics, the way I see it. They serve a very important niche in any fort, and it goes into a lot of detail about how to train them most efficiently. If you see a way to shorten it, please do so by all means; I proofread it a couple times trying to figure out how to do so, but I couldn't come up with anything - more or less everything I put in there is what I feel is needed detail. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:32, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:::With no real argument against splitting, it's been done. Info can now be found at [[cross-training]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:20, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

== smoothing near river? ==

# Careless designation of smoothing areas may have your dwarves trying to smooth walls too close to magma or a river.

Why is this bad? the article on smoothing doesn't say. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 13:59, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'd imagine it's because dwarfs aren't very smart and may either incite the local fauna, or fall in. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 15:03, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:Maybe they try to smooth the "wet" side, which would probably result in a cancellation message.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:38, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
::They don't do this. I flooded my swimming pool before it was totally smoothed and my engravers just politely ignored my designations until I had drained it for them. The larger issue is that rivers and magma pools can all contain Bad Things (tm) like carp or magma men, which puts your dwarves at an unnessecery risk. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Encumbrance ==

This is a really impressive amount of research, and I suggest it now is large enough to deserve its own page, with a link from here. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:49, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks. A split would be fine; [[Equipment and encumbrance]], maybe?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:31, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:: That's definitely got my vote over just "Encumbrance." I keep forgetting what sort of page titles are valid in a wiki. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 01:29, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Done. It certainly got more elaborate than I had initially intended. It was fun writing it, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:55, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Carrying two weapons ==

Ok, I have a dwarf champion with legendary in all weapon types (well, that can be equipped. No whips for him.) armor, shields and wrestling. He has the highest possible listed attributes and is currently wearing legendary steel greaves and plate (I got really lucky).

My question is, is there a way for me to make him carry two weapons around? Honestly, I took off his shield for the last goblin siege and he didn't get hurt at all (I think he had a bruised lower leg which healed in about one turn, it seemed).

I just think he would be better off carrying two weapons around instead of his shield, but the labor menu is totally blocked off, including hunting and soldiering. Is there any way to actually get him to carry that second weapon?[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 19:47, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:{{k|m}}ilitary-{{k|w}}weapons, right arrow over to where it says #:1, hit Enter. It's possible you'll also need to set "shield" to none. I've never tried out double weapons before. But given that he can get still injured, I personally wouldn't fool with it. Especially if you go up against elite bowmen: you'll end up with a legendary pincushion that menaces with spikes of iron.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:39, 8 November 2008 (EST)

::I suppose you have a point. Last ambush he only went against one bowman (who managed to badly bruise his shield arm, the bastard!) and some macegoblins. I'll just work on that legendary shield.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 20:52, 8 November 2008 (EST)

::: The menu Maximus is talking about is only for the number of weapons he carries with him. If a weapon gets stuck in an enemy, a dwarf carrying two weapons will be able to use the second weapon. Dwarves can carry a weapon and a shield in the same hand anyway, so I doubt you need to turn off shields. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:28, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:::Those who I've set to use this option I've seen holding both of their weapons in one hand, and a shield in the other. Somehow this seems to work well! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 03:08, 9 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Mandate

2008-09-06T02:04:19Z

Extar:

A '''mandate''' is a [[noble]]'s request that your [[dwarves]] produce a certain item or type of item. Starting nobles such as the [[expedition leader]] will not make mandates, upgraded nobles like the [[mayor]] will.

There are two types of mandates, production mandates and export bans. Export bans forbid the export of some goods, and can be for either goods of a certain type, like [[armor|chain mail]], or goods of a certain material, like [[copper]] items. Note that requests for a specific [[metal]] like [[pig iron]] can literally be fufilled by smelting pig iron.

Violating an export ban by [[trade|trading]] any of the item away is a [[Justice|crime]] for each of the haulers who brought a prohibited item (that was sold) to the [[trade depot]]. While selecting goods to be brought to the depot, you can select "culling on mandates" so that the item list won't include objects you can't export due to a mandate. Items that are subject to export bans are displayed in purple text in the trade window.

When a noble makes a production mandate, you will have about a year to fulfill it. These mandates for the production of goods, and can specify type or material, just like export bans. Note that a single [[mug]] is counted as 1 item although 3 are produced from one raw material, so if you are short of the mandated material producing mugs is favorable. Purchasing the required items at a trade [[caravan]] will not fulfill a mandate. Making metal items includes smelting [[ore]] to create metal [[bars]] of that type.

Mandates are announced at the bottom of the screen, but if you miss the message, you can see if a noble is mandating anything on the [[nobles screen|noble's screen]]. If the uppercase bracketed word '[MANDATE]' next to a noble's name is grey, he is making no mandates. If brown, he is making a production mandate, and you have a lot of time to complete it. If yellow, you have a couple seasons before the mandate expires. If red, the mandate will expire very soon. If white, then the mandate has been fulfilled, or it is an export ban.

If a production mandate expires without being fulfilled, the noble will get an unhappy [[thought]], and one or more dwarves might be sentenced with the 'violation of production order' [[Justice|crime]]. The dwarves sentenced will always have the skills appropriate to the mandate; a failed mandate for the production of [[quiver]]s will sentence [[leatherworker]]s. If the noble can't find any dwarfs suitable, or cannot punish any dwarves because of noble or legendary status, he will get another unhappy thought.

Fulfilling the mandate gives the noble a happy [[thought]].

Happy [[noble]]s make fewer mandates and [[demand]]s than unhappy ones.

Mandates should not be confused with [[demand]]s.

40d Talk:Trading

2008-09-06T02:02:05Z

Extar: /* Adamantium in trade window */

== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==

This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Extraction from different articles ==

All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Haulers? ==
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Moving goods on afterwards ==

To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Duplicate Page?==
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]

== culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== "everything is ruined now" ==
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

==Depot Access==
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading Margins ==
In regards to this submission:
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."

You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==

Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading flowchart ==

Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]

:Ask and ye shall receive
{|cellspacing=0 align=center
|-
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade
|}
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:The above was the first draft. You can access the current version at [[Trading/Flowchart]]. Anyway, what I wanted to say was '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''
:I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

== Offerings ==

Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==

Personally I've found it very useful to do this:

When traders arrive,
a) optionally check stocks.
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.

To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).

The reason:
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.

Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.

Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:

"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Clear the perimeter? ==

Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:What the article says is:
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization,
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year
:#they cannot use stairs
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot
:With the above points in mind:
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation.

I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction.

The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

==Seizing goods==
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."

I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Empty caravans ==

human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== starvation ==

it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)

== Added a small bit. ==

I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.

== Caravan at Inaccessible Depot ==

I assume it is related to the 3 wide path only showing as 1 green square, but the caravan has stopped at a trade depot that is listed as inaccessible. Does this mean that some trade depots will show bad with SHIFT-D but are actually okay? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 21:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:The three-wide path showing only one green square is, to my knowledge, correct. That green is the center of the path, along which the center of the wagon must align with to fit within the three-wide path. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 23:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks. It'd be nice then if the Shift-D showed that as a caravan accessible depot then. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 01:21, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Correction: It does, there was a boulder in the way that I did not see. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:10, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== 50% profit rule ==

This really, REALLY needs to be made clearer in the game. There's nothing wrong with the trader telling us how much profit he'd expect from our goods! I've got tens of thousands worth of goods that I haven't sold for two years straight because the bloody traders wouldn't tell me how much they want, and I didn't find the 50% rule buried in this article until just now! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 09:36, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's hardly 'buried' in the article, it's certainly not a rule, and it is made pretty clear in the game. I'm not just trying to be contrary; let me explain: A skilled broker can routinely trade with only a thirty or twenty percent profit, even down to ten percent if the merchant is in a good mood. If the merchant wants more profit, he will either put forth a counter-offer or say "With your trade goods such as they are, I can't possibly imagine you getting all of those items." This seems like a pretty clear indication that he wants a bigger margin. As to its place in the article: a full half of the section titled "Trading" details the fifty percent suggestion. If you think it deserves increased prominence, I encourage you to edit it yourself. Them's my six cents. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:16, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:: afaik, traders will accept ''any'' profit, as long as they're not annoyed and also as long as you're not trying to buy 'high-tech' items like steel anvils or bars, with 'low-tech' items such as poorly crafted pieces of stone, bone etc [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Elves and dead stuff==

it seems elves will make counter-offers for dead stuff, like totems, bone and shell crafts... needs to be fixed imo [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantium in trade window==

I've just noticed that Adamantine strands appear in my trade window in purple text despite them not being present at the depot and marked for trade. I'm fairly sure that this is something to do with mandates from the nobles (my broker has forbade the export of adamantine) but I can't find any mention of this on the Wiki, any thoughts? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 21:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
I did a bit more testing and the purple text is clearly to do with export bans, I'll add it to the mandate page. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 22:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Trading

2008-09-06T01:58:16Z

Extar: /* Adamantium in trade window */

40d Talk:Trading

2008-09-06T01:56:46Z

Extar: /* Adamantium in trade window */

== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==

This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Extraction from different articles ==

All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Haulers? ==
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Moving goods on afterwards ==

To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Duplicate Page?==
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]

== culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== "everything is ruined now" ==
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

==Depot Access==
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading Margins ==
In regards to this submission:
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."

You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==

Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading flowchart ==

Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]

:Ask and ye shall receive
{|cellspacing=0 align=center
|-
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade
|}
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:The above was the first draft. You can access the current version at [[Trading/Flowchart]]. Anyway, what I wanted to say was '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''
:I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

== Offerings ==

Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==

Personally I've found it very useful to do this:

When traders arrive,
a) optionally check stocks.
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.

To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).

The reason:
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.

Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.

Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:

"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Clear the perimeter? ==

Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:What the article says is:
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization,
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year
:#they cannot use stairs
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot
:With the above points in mind:
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation.

I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction.

The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

==Seizing goods==
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."

I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Empty caravans ==

human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== starvation ==

it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)

== Added a small bit. ==

I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.

== Caravan at Inaccessible Depot ==

I assume it is related to the 3 wide path only showing as 1 green square, but the caravan has stopped at a trade depot that is listed as inaccessible. Does this mean that some trade depots will show bad with SHIFT-D but are actually okay? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 21:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:The three-wide path showing only one green square is, to my knowledge, correct. That green is the center of the path, along which the center of the wagon must align with to fit within the three-wide path. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 23:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks. It'd be nice then if the Shift-D showed that as a caravan accessible depot then. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 01:21, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Correction: It does, there was a boulder in the way that I did not see. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:10, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== 50% profit rule ==

This really, REALLY needs to be made clearer in the game. There's nothing wrong with the trader telling us how much profit he'd expect from our goods! I've got tens of thousands worth of goods that I haven't sold for two years straight because the bloody traders wouldn't tell me how much they want, and I didn't find the 50% rule buried in this article until just now! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 09:36, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's hardly 'buried' in the article, it's certainly not a rule, and it is made pretty clear in the game. I'm not just trying to be contrary; let me explain: A skilled broker can routinely trade with only a thirty or twenty percent profit, even down to ten percent if the merchant is in a good mood. If the merchant wants more profit, he will either put forth a counter-offer or say "With your trade goods such as they are, I can't possibly imagine you getting all of those items." This seems like a pretty clear indication that he wants a bigger margin. As to its place in the article: a full half of the section titled "Trading" details the fifty percent suggestion. If you think it deserves increased prominence, I encourage you to edit it yourself. Them's my six cents. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:16, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:: afaik, traders will accept ''any'' profit, as long as they're not annoyed and also as long as you're not trying to buy 'high-tech' items like steel anvils or bars, with 'low-tech' items such as poorly crafted pieces of stone, bone etc [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Elves and dead stuff==

it seems elves will make counter-offers for dead stuff, like totems, bone and shell crafts... needs to be fixed imo [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantium in trade window==

I've just noticed that Adamantine strands appear in my trade window in purple text despite them not being present at the depot and marked for trade. I'm guessing that this is some special feature of adamantine or something to do with mandates from the nobles (my broker has forbade the export of adamantine) but I can't find any mention of this on the Wiki, any thoughts? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 21:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Trading

2008-09-06T01:55:03Z

Extar:

== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==

This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Extraction from different articles ==

All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)

== Haulers? ==
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Moving goods on afterwards ==

To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Duplicate Page?==
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]

== culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== "everything is ruined now" ==
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

==Depot Access==
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading Margins ==
In regards to this submission:
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."

You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==

Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trading flowchart ==

Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]

:Ask and ye shall receive
{|cellspacing=0 align=center
|-
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|width=50|
|width=1|
|width=50|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible
|-
|colspan=4|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|colspan=2|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours
|-
|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|colspan=5|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|
|-
|
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|
|-
|colspan=3|
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade
|}
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:The above was the first draft. You can access the current version at [[Trading/Flowchart]]. Anyway, what I wanted to say was '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''
:I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

== Offerings ==

Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==

Personally I've found it very useful to do this:

When traders arrive,
a) optionally check stocks.
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.

To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).

The reason:
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.

Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.

Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:

"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Clear the perimeter? ==

Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)
:What the article says is:
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization,
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year
:#they cannot use stairs
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot
:With the above points in mind:
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation.

I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction.

The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

==Seizing goods==
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."

I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Empty caravans ==

human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== starvation ==

it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)

== Added a small bit. ==

I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.

== Caravan at Inaccessible Depot ==

I assume it is related to the 3 wide path only showing as 1 green square, but the caravan has stopped at a trade depot that is listed as inaccessible. Does this mean that some trade depots will show bad with SHIFT-D but are actually okay? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 21:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:The three-wide path showing only one green square is, to my knowledge, correct. That green is the center of the path, along which the center of the wagon must align with to fit within the three-wide path. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 23:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks. It'd be nice then if the Shift-D showed that as a caravan accessible depot then. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 01:21, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Correction: It does, there was a boulder in the way that I did not see. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:10, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== 50% profit rule ==

This really, REALLY needs to be made clearer in the game. There's nothing wrong with the trader telling us how much profit he'd expect from our goods! I've got tens of thousands worth of goods that I haven't sold for two years straight because the bloody traders wouldn't tell me how much they want, and I didn't find the 50% rule buried in this article until just now! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 09:36, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's hardly 'buried' in the article, it's certainly not a rule, and it is made pretty clear in the game. I'm not just trying to be contrary; let me explain: A skilled broker can routinely trade with only a thirty or twenty percent profit, even down to ten percent if the merchant is in a good mood. If the merchant wants more profit, he will either put forth a counter-offer or say "With your trade goods such as they are, I can't possibly imagine you getting all of those items." This seems like a pretty clear indication that he wants a bigger margin. As to its place in the article: a full half of the section titled "Trading" details the fifty percent suggestion. If you think it deserves increased prominence, I encourage you to edit it yourself. Them's my six cents. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:16, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:: afaik, traders will accept ''any'' profit, as long as they're not annoyed and also as long as you're not trying to buy 'high-tech' items like steel anvils or bars, with 'low-tech' items such as poorly crafted pieces of stone, bone etc [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Elves and dead stuff==

it seems elves will make counter-offers for dead stuff, like totems, bone and shell crafts... needs to be fixed imo [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantium in trade window==

I've just noticed that Adamantine strands appear in my trade window in purple text despite them not being present at the depot and marked for trade. I'm guessing that this is some special feature of adamantine but I can't find any mention of this on the Wiki, any thoughts? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 21:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Underground river

2008-08-30T19:11:50Z

Extar:

Assuming that there's some logic behind underground river locations, it seems to me that the following might be good places to look: 'Upstream' from the source of a regular river (perhaps that river doesn't start there, but that's simply where it makes it to the surface first), in an area without many visible surface rivers (rain falls and has to go somewhere), and in areas with lots of limestone, which is where a lot of real-world underground rivers are. [[User:NPComplete|NPComplete]] 13:18, 4 December 2007 (EST)

It is in my understanding that underground rivers spawn cave fish. Also, above ground rivers channeled under ground do not spawn cave fish. Can someone verify this? --[[User:Flaa|Flaa]] 12:55, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I'm concerned creatures spawn only in respectable biomes. When you channel to cave river this biome does not extend up. It cannot be extended in any direction. If you could block flow of the cave river you could make small pond, from which cave fishes could travel up the channels to the aboveground river, but they will never spawn there.--[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 14:38, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

In the current version (38c) underground river creatures do get caught in cages. I can verify this, I have a pit full of cave crocodiles, and I've caught numerous lizardmen. -- [[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 9:58, (CST) June 11, 2008

==Flooding==

Do cave rivers still flood seasonally like in the 2D versions? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 15:11, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Appraiser

2008-08-25T23:47:05Z

Extar:

I've noticed that actual trades do not affect the Apprasial Skill. Instead, When the Broker actually goes to the depot when the Merchants are there, the skill increases. It seems like when I start a new fortress, if I use a dwarf without appraisal skill, he'll already have Dabbling Appraiser before I actually trade goods. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 12:58, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:I thought the appraiser skill was only really used to be able to see the price of the goods when you trade? Thus, it doesn't have much use in itself, it's simply pretty neat to actualy know accuratly what you're trading for and against in term of price. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed this as well. Further, it appears that only the first dwarf to examine a given set of trade goods will gain skill. --

I think the statement that "Selecting items to trade doesn't give skill" is incorrect, and actually ''is'' giving skill. I recently selected a whole slew of items with my non-legendary mayor/trader, but noticed I didn't have enough to afford all the caravan's goods so backed out of the trade window... then I noticed he just hit legendary. I could be mistaken and he had already been legendary before he got to the depot, but I'm fairly sure he wasn't. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 19:35, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I just got into dwarven economy mode on a fortress of mine, and it seems that my shops are owned by appraisers. Is this a coincidence? --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Do you mean that the shopkeepers happen to be dwarves that already has appraisal, or that the shopkeepers gained the appraisal skill?--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 20:43, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Gaining experience ==

So is experience gained quicker through single large transactions, that is trading loads of goods and clearing out the caravan in one transaction, or is offering more smaller transactions a better way? I've not been able to tell any difference so far but it seems reasonable that one way would be better. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:47, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Appraiser & Bookeeping ==

Are we sure that bookkeeping gives appraiser experience? Because I have a new bookkeeper in training, and she hasn't gained any appraiser skill. --[[User:Strangething]], unsigned

:You are correct; it does not give that experience. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:48, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

User:Extar

2008-08-25T20:10:16Z

Extar:

{{Gametext|Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [http://www.extarscube.com website] lately. He plugged a website lately. He slept in a good bedroom recently. He was disgusted by a miasma lately. He was caught in the rain recently.}}
{{Gametext|Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, the colour black, denim, band t-shirts, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.|#0f0}}
{{Gametext|He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He is modest. He enjoys the company of others. He has a fertile imagination. He dislikes confrontations. He dislikes self-aggrandisement. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.}}

User:Extar

2008-08-25T20:08:38Z

Extar:

{{Gametext|Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [http://www.extarscube.com website] lately. He plugged a website lately. He slept in a good bedroom recently. He was disgusted by a miasma lately.}}
{{Gametext|Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, the colour black, denim, band t-shirts, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.|#0f0}}
{{Gametext|He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He is modest. He enjoys the company of others. He has a fertile imagination. He dislikes confrontations. He dislikes self-aggrandisement. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.}}

40d Talk:Wound

2008-08-25T20:06:01Z

Extar:

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

40d:Stupid dwarf trick

2008-08-16T22:39:12Z

Extar:

{{D for Dwarf}}

A '''stupid dwarf trick''' is any project that that requires a large amount time and effort, for little or no practical benefit. They exist only as a challenge for experienced players.

==Monumental Statue==

'''Difficulty:''' Depends on how big you want the statue to be.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==Artificial Waterfall==
To keep the waterfall going, you need a [[pump]] stack, preferably powered by a [[windmill]] or [[water wheel]].

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Dwarves love [[waterfall]]s. Putting a waterfall in your [[meeting hall]] will give your dwarves good [[thought]]s.

==Execution Tower==
Just a tall tower to chuck your captives to their deaths.

'''Difficulty:''' Easy.

'''Usefulness:''' Lets you dispose of prisoners, and claim expensive silk, meltable iron, and (eventually) useful bones.

==Bridge-a-pult==
A bridge that opens outwards, to fling enemies away. Ideally, they land in a very nasty place.

'''Difficulty:''' The hard part is the nasty place they get flung to.

'''Usefulness:''' There are a lot more effective ways to defend a fortress, but not as entertaining.

==Dam==
Build a wall across a riverbed to stop the flow of water. Floodgates optional.

'''Difficulty:''' On a map that freezes in the winter, this is easy. Otherwise, very difficult.

'''Usefulness:''' Dubious.

==[[Tower-cap]] Farm==
You absolutely need to break into an underground river or lake. Make some muddy floors over a big area and wait.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Yes, if it's big enough.

==Magma Pumping==
It's a lot like pumping water, only more dangerous, and requires the [[screw pump|pumps]] to use magma-proof blocks in their construction. {{verify}}

'''Difficulty:''' The difficult part is making all those bauxite pumps and floodgates. Very high risk.

'''Usefulness:''' Magma is fun, but impractical.

==Booze Bomb==
If you set barrels of booze on fire they explode. Can possibly be used as a complex trap. About the only way to start a fire on demand is magma. Possibly caged fire imps or magma men.

'''Difficulty:''' High.

'''Usefulness:''' There many easier ways to kill goblins, but few that set them on fire.

==Greenhouse==
A [[greenhouse]] is just a farm with the the ceiling channeled out from above. This lets you grow outdoor plants without venturing above ground. For the maximum style, build a glass roof to keep your farmers safe.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Surface plants are not so much more useful than underground crops. [[Rope reed]] can be grown year round.

==Gladiator Arena==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate, but time consuming.

'''Usefulness:''' The most difficult way to dispose of prisoners. It does give your soldiers a little bit of experience.

==Self Destruct Lever==
'''Difficulty:''' Very high. Extremely dangerous.

'''Usefulness:''' None. By definition.

==Flood the World==
'''Difficulty:''' High danger. Will kill your frame rate.

'''Usefulness:''' Will prevent any sieges, at least. Or anything else.

==[[Ballista]] Battery==
Overlap a few ballistas to completely cover a narrow corridor. There is an unavoidable risk of your operators wandering into the line of fire.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. If you insist on highly-trained operators with high-quality ballistas, it gets harder.

'''Usefulness:''' A complicated and dangerous way to defend a single corridor.

==[[Swimming]] pool==
It's a reservoir that fills to 4/7 exactly. Station soldiers inside, lock them in, and fill. This way they gain [[swimming]] skill.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. It's just a pair of reservoirs.

'''Usefulness:''' The swimming skill is only slightly useful.

==[[Ice]] tower==
'''Difficulty:''' Low. You need to be on a freezing map to pull it off.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==[[Obsidian]] factory==
You need one reservoir of water, and one of magma. Mix, cool and mine.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium.

'''Usefulness:''' High.

==Drowning Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' You can kill prisoners, useless peasants, irate nobles, hammerers, untrainable animals, or anything else.

==Magma Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Dangerous as any magma project.

'''Usefulness:''' It's like a drowning chamber, but you can't recover most of the victim's stuff.

==Labyrinth==
'''Difficulty:''' It's a lot of mining. Having a bridge drop invaders inside is more difficult, but more useful.

'''Usefulness:''' It makes a nice element of fortress defense, and you can dump your prisoners inside it.

==[[Adventure Mode]] Fortress==
'''Difficulty:''' The sky's the limit.

'''Usefulness:''' Not applicable.

==Vomitorium==
It's like the greenhouse, only instead of a farm, it's meeting hall. Prevents [[cave adaption]].

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Low.

==Pit o' Doom==
Combine with an Execution Tower for maximum z-level executions! Spike traps are a must.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. You want it nice and deep though.

'''Usefulness:''' Dispose of prisoners, execute nobles, gruesome fatal injuries, laugh maniacally.

40d:Stupid dwarf trick

2008-08-16T22:38:41Z

Extar:

{{D for Dwarf}}

A '''stupid dwarf trick''' is any project that that requires a large amount time and effort, for little or no practical benefit. They exist only as a challenge for experienced players.

==Monumental Statue==

'''Difficulty:''' Depends on how big you want the statue to be.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==Artificial Waterfall==
To keep the waterfall going, you need a [[pump]] stack, preferably powered by a [[windmill]] or [[water wheel]].

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Dwarves love [[waterfall]]s. Putting a waterfall in your [[meeting hall]] will give your dwarves good [[thought]]s.

==Execution Tower==
Just a tall tower to chuck your captives to their deaths.

'''Difficulty:''' Easy.

'''Usefulness:''' Lets you dispose of prisoners, and claim expensive silk, meltable iron, and (eventually) useful bones.

==Bridge-a-pult==
A bridge that opens outwards, to fling enemies away. Ideally, they land in a very nasty place.

'''Difficulty:''' The hard part is the nasty place they get flung to.

'''Usefulness:''' There are a lot more effective ways to defend a fortress, but not as entertaining.

==Dam==
Build a wall across a riverbed to stop the flow of water. Floodgates optional.

'''Difficulty:''' On a map that freezes in the winter, this is easy. Otherwise, very difficult.

'''Usefulness:''' Dubious.

==[[Tower-cap]] Farm==
You absolutely need to break into an underground river or lake. Make some muddy floors over a big area and wait.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Yes, if it's big enough.

==Magma Pumping==
It's a lot like pumping water, only more dangerous, and requires the [[screw pump|pumps]] to use magma-proof blocks in their construction. {{verify}}

'''Difficulty:''' The difficult part is making all those bauxite pumps and floodgates. Very high risk.

'''Usefulness:''' Magma is fun, but impractical.

==Booze Bomb==
If you set barrels of booze on fire they explode. Can possibly be used as a complex trap. About the only way to start a fire on demand is magma. Possibly caged fire imps or magma men.

'''Difficulty:''' High.

'''Usefulness:''' There many easier ways to kill goblins, but few that set them on fire.

==Greenhouse==
A [[greenhouse]] is just a farm with the the ceiling channeled out from above. This lets you grow outdoor plants without venturing above ground. For the maximum style, build a glass roof to keep your farmers safe.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Surface plants are not so much more useful than underground crops. [[Rope reed]] can be grown year round.

==Gladiator Arena==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate, but time consuming.

'''Usefulness:''' The most difficult way to dispose of prisoners. It does give your soldiers a little bit of experience.

==Self Destruct Lever==
'''Difficulty:''' Very high. Extremely dangerous.

'''Usefulness:''' None. By definition.

==Flood the World==
'''Difficulty:''' High danger. Will kill your frame rate.

'''Usefulness:''' Will prevent any sieges, at least. Or anything else.

==[[Ballista]] Battery==
Overlap a few ballistas to completely cover a narrow corridor. There is an unavoidable risk of your operators wandering into the line of fire.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. If you insist on highly-trained operators with high-quality ballistas, it gets harder.

'''Usefulness:''' A complicated and dangerous way to defend a single corridor.

==[[Swimming]] pool==
It's a reservoir that fills to 4/7 exactly. Station soldiers inside, lock them in, and fill. This way they gain [[swimming]] skill.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. It's just a pair of reservoirs.

'''Usefulness:''' The swimming skill is only slightly useful.

==[[Ice]] tower==
'''Difficulty:''' Low. You need to be on a freezing map to pull it off.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==[[Obsidian]] factory==
You need one reservoir of water, and one of magma. Mix, cool and mine.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium.

'''Usefulness:''' High.

==Drowning Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' You can kill prisoners, useless peasants, irate nobles, hammerers, untrainable animals, or anything else.

==Magma Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Dangerous as any magma project.

'''Usefulness:''' It's like a drowning chamber, but you can't recover most of the victim's stuff.

==Labyrinth==
'''Difficulty:''' It's a lot of mining. Having a bridge drop invaders inside is more difficult, but more useful.

'''Usefulness:''' It makes a nice element of fortress defense, and you can dump your prisoners inside it.

==[[Adventure Mode]] Fortress==
'''Difficulty:''' The sky's the limit.

'''Usefulness:''' Not applicable.

==Vomitorium==
It's like the greenhouse, only instead of a farm, it's meeting hall. Prevents [[cave adaption]].

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Low.

==Pit o' Dooom==
Combine with an Execution Tower for maximum z-level executions! Spike traps are a must.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. You want it nice and deep though.

'''Usefulness:''' Dispose of prisoners, execute nobles, gruesome fatal injuries, laugh maniacally.

40d Talk:Sparring

2008-06-15T15:22:10Z

Extar:

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

User:Extar

2008-06-05T00:49:37Z

Extar:

{{Gametext|Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [http://www.extarscube.com website] lately. He plugged a website lately. He slept in a good bedroom recently. He was disgusted by a miasma lately.}}
{{Gametext|Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, the colour black, denim, band t-shirts, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.|#0f0}}
{{Gametext|He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He has a fertile imagination. He dislikes confrontations. He dislikes self-aggrandisement. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.}}

40d Talk:Currency

2008-06-05T00:12:48Z

Extar: /* Different materials for coins */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)
::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

==Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity?==
What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Currency

2008-06-05T00:08:52Z

Extar: /* Different materials for coins */

User:Extar

2008-06-04T23:57:00Z

Extar:

{{Gametext|Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [http://www.extarscube.com website] lately. He plugged a website lately. He slept in a good bedroom recently. He was disgusted by a miasma lately.}}
{{Gametext|Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, the colour black, denim, band t-shirts, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.|#0f0}}
{{Gametext|He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He has a fertile imagination. He dislikes confrontations. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.}}

User:Extar

2008-06-04T23:40:22Z

Extar: New page: Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [www.extarscube.com]website[/] l...

Extar has been content lately. He drank a fine drink lately. He slept uneasily due to noise lately. He was caught in the rain recently. He admired own fine [www.extarscube.com]website[/] lately. He plugged a website lately.
Extar likes computers, guitars, spray paint, Dwarf Fortress for its complexity, Diablo II for its addictiveness, metal for its heaviness. When possible he prefers to consume Heineken and english mustard. He absolutely detests mushrooms.
He tends to avoid crowds. He is very quick to anger. He needs alcohol to get through the working day and is starting to work slowly due to its scarcity.

40d Talk:Currency

2008-06-04T23:08:11Z

Extar: /* Different materials for coins */

40d Talk:Currency

2008-06-04T23:07:12Z

Extar: /* Monies? */

40d Talk:Currency

2008-06-04T23:05:25Z

Extar: /* Monies? */