Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Eagle of Fire

2013-03-27T08:09:06Z

Eagle of Fire:

40d Talk:Mayor

2008-03-23T04:33:58Z

Eagle of Fire:

My mayor just had the thought "..angered that nobody could be punished for a recent failure". Is this what happens when I violate an export mandate? Currently export of bolts is prohibited; I was smug and exported some arrows that obviously none of my dwarves made. He still could have punished my trader though? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
:You get this message when one of your nobles gave a mandate, it failed but you didn't have dwarves with the right job enabled. For example, if your broker ask for a gem and you have no gemcutters around until the mandate end, he'll have nobody to properly punish. That's when he'll get such a thought. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Main Page/Quote Archive

2008-02-18T14:49:18Z

Eagle of Fire: Adding joke, plus adding a few from main page history which got missed.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border-spacing: 1em"

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|"I think I'll stick to drowning dwarves and cooking puppies."}}
{{Quote Box|"I mean, how dangerous can an elephant be, anyway?"}}
{{Quote Box|Toady has created a masterpiece!}}
{{Quote Box|Is that a hammer in your ≡Giant cave spider silk trousers≡ or are you just happy to see me?}}
{{Quote Box|Do these +narrow chimpanzee leather trousers+ make me look fat?}}
{{Quote Box|This wiki menaces with spikes of bread.}}
{{Quote Box|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.}}
{{Quote Box|Fun fact: Ditching the starting anvil for a shit ton of logs makes for a strong early defense by way of a palisade...}}
{{Quote Box|"The interface is coming - it's not coming in your lifetime but it's coming."<br> - [[Toady One]]}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!}}
{{Quote Box|Beware of the Elephant's greatest evolutionary trait: [[Talk:Elephant#Stealth_Elephants|Stealth]].}}
{{Quote Box|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [[Fortress_Paintrag#1056|"Aaah! Gorillas!"]]}}
{{Quote Box|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!}}
{{Quote Box|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!}}
{{Quote Box|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!}}
{{Quote Box|[[Elephant]]s are like huge, wrinkly [[ambusher|ninjas]].}}
{{Quote Box|Tobul Dumatfath, Fisherdwarf cancels Fish: Interrupted by [[carp]].}}
{{Quote Box|The critical question is this''':''' do dead elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|What is that [[magma|red stuff]] coming towards me? Oh well, I think I'll stay in this [[channel|trench-shaped]] thing.}}
{{Quote Box|“Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess.”}}
{{Quote Box|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].}}
{{Quote Box|"Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions." There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins.}}
{{Quote Box|Toady One likes donors for their [http://www.bay12games.com/support.html generosity]. He absolutely detests trolls.}}
{{Quote Box|Booze does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.}}
{{Quote Box|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.}}
{{Quote Box|"Madness? THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS!" -Dwarven King}}
{{Quote Box|'I wonder what would happen if I poked that elephant with a stick' - Gib Trampledmangled.}}
{{Quote Box|If in doubt, [[fluid|flood]] the fort!}}
{{Quote Box|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.}}
{{Quote Box|Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter is throwing a tantrum!
Felsite Bridge destroyed by Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter.
Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter has drowned.}}
{{Quote Box|"Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!"}}
{{Quote Box|Only you can prevent fortress fires.}}
{{Quote Box|On the assumption that there is something scarier than a hydra out there.

''Your in-laws have arrived from Shinthumtobul Imketh.''}}
{{Quote Box|'Leader' Igëratìr, Clerk has created Razuk Lanzil, a Obsidian Crown!"<br><br>-"I think the leader business is getting to his head!}}
{{Quote Box|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?}}
{{Quote Box|Damn, isn't there a way to start out where fights aren't like a coin toss?"<br><br>"Ironically enough, tossing coins is among one of the most effective forms of combat.}}
{{Quote Box|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...}}
{{Quote Box|M.C. Hammerer.<br>"You, peasant! Thou hast stolen a possession of a nobledwarf, and must be punished!"<br>"What? B-but I didn't-"<br>"Silence, knave! I shall teach you not to steal!"<br>*SMACK*<br>"CAN'T TOUCH THIS!"<br>*SMACK*<br>"CAN'T TOUCH THAT!"<br>*SMACK*<br>Etc...}}
<div style="float: left; margin-right: 1em">
[[Category:Humor and stories]]

Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport

2008-02-18T03:43:10Z

Eagle of Fire:

Use this page to notify the admin of any spamming account.

Blibble [[http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Special:Contributions/Blibble]] just spammed the main page. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)

He did not spammed, he vandalized the page. --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 19:11, 17 February 2008 (EST)
:Same difference. This page is to be used to report to the sysop people who are spamming or, if you wish, vandalizing pages. Or any other antisocial behavior. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport

2008-02-17T22:22:40Z

Eagle of Fire:

40d:Dimple cup

2008-02-13T22:54:16Z

Eagle of Fire: 500 ticks. If you don't like how the info is displayed, expand on it. Don't just remove it.

'''Dimple Cups'''

Dimple cups are a subterranean [[crop]] that can be grown any time of year. Dimple cups can only be milled into dimple dye at a [[mill]] or [[quern]].

<br />Grow time: 500
<br />Value: 4
<br />Mill product: Dimple dye. Value of 20.
<br />Dye color: Midnight blue.
<br />Seasons: All

[[Category:Indoor crops]]
[[Category:Spring crops]]
[[Category:Summer crops]]
[[Category:Autumn crops]]
[[Category:Winter crops]]
[[Category:Non-brewable plants]]
[[Category:Inedible plants]]

40d Talk:Weapon

2008-02-13T22:52:03Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Unorthodox Weapons */

Are the bows and blowguns melee or ranged? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Both. When they run out of ammo the dwarves will beat their enemies to death with their bows. The listed damage is for when that happens. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)

What about damage done by artifact weapons? Is it x2 like masterwork items?
:The exact damage bonus granted by artifact weapons is unknown, though it's quite likely much higher than a masterwork, if the value is any indicator. It's difficult to determine the exact bonus, as it's not in the raws, Toady hasn't told us, and it's very difficult to gauge exactly how much damage a weapon is dealing due to how little is known about the combat calculations in general. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 07:31, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Conflicting Info? ==

Earlier on, we say that dwarves can't wield bows because they are too big. Down in the tables, the bow is listed as two handed and not unwieldable. Need to correct one or the other (I'm too lazy to verify that in the current version bows are still unwieldable.) --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 06:20, 28 November 2007 (EST)
:Well, a bow is two handed and unwieldable to dwarves, do you mean in adventure mode with humans/elves? I think most of this data is fortress mode specific. --Gotthard 18:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)
::I didn't write the article, so I don't know it's original intention, however there are other weapons that can be wielded 2 handed by humans and others in adventure mode, but are listed as unweildable by dwarves. Need to choose to make the table fortress specific, adventure mode specific, or add another col and make it specific to both. As it stands now, it doesn't make sense. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 18:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:I'm almost certain this is dwarf specific, because I had some goblin axemen siege my base, and one of them was wielding a great axe in one hand, and a shield (not even a *buckler*) in the other hand. I think I saw the same thing with a halberd, but a pike was multigrasped. Looks like goblins have a lot more options than our poor dwarves. --Gotthard 12:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)

==Pike==

I been able to wield a bronze pike with an adventurer in 23a and it was quite deadly. This need to be verified. Maybe there is a strength requirement? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:43, 28 November 2007 (EST)

==Whips and scourges==
So, I'm guessing that you can't assign dwarves to use whips and scourges unless you've traded for one, right? And on the article for [[Scourge]] it says it's deadlier than a whip (which currently has no page)... Does that mean scourges are better in every way? What's worse? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:03, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Did you actually read the tables? It does 10 more damage, and is the same in everything else. Dwarves can't become lashers. There are no lasher option in the military settings... --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 14:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)

==Unorthodox Weapons==

Is there any information on unorthodox weapons such as coins and loincloths? For instance, are the material and crafting value taken into account, and what is the base damage of the item? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)
:"Unortodox" weapons are not really weapons. However, since ''absolutly anything thrown is deadly in the curren fight code'', a lot of people use about anything in adventure mode. This is how coins became popular as a throwing weapon. Part because it's as deadly as anything else and very light which mean you can carry a lot around, part because it is a weapon used in other ascii or rogue like games. You could throw butterfly corpses and mud around and it would be just as deadly as coins. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:52, 13 February 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Dwarf

2008-02-11T14:57:52Z

Eagle of Fire:

I don't really see the point of those pictures, but that isn't a good enough reason to remove them.<br>
If you have any reasons for which the picture(s) should stay or should not stay, please give them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:58, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:I believe that the pictures help visualize the things talked about in this article, for instance, the dwarven stature, the artifacts dwarves are said to make, and a little joke about managers. -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

::The joke is just plain stupid and DF doesn't connect axes and dwarves at all.
::I suggest placing a smaller, possibly improved version of the picture directly in the article, and deleting the other two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:39, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::This entire article, barring the 3rd paragraph, has nothing to do with the game and should be tossed. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::I agree. I plan to rewrite it in the form of [[Human]] and [[Elf]]. The wiki can have some humour, but this doesn't fit the tone at all. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:22, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::Done, a complete revamp. I considered removing the Mythology section too and just linking to the wikipedia article, but I suppose it doesn't hurt the article any. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Do dwarf chicks have beards?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 21:58, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Usually, no. Unless you are talking about a hardcore mythology version in a very specific locale, like the example image you get if you follow the Wiki link. For DF, I don't think there ever been a fixed description, so it would be up to [[Toady One|Toady]] to decide in the end... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:20, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Naturally. All dwarves have beards, according to Tolkien. This is a page for discussing the article, though, not for discussing dwarves in general. That kind of stuff is for the [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi forum]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 23:27, 13 November 2007 (EST)
::It's not like Tolkien is an ultimate reference to anything... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:10, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Has anyone tried editing dwarves so they can fly? I'm wondering how that would work in fortress mode. Cliffside fortress, anyone?--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 20:33, 23 November 2007 (EST)

I did some research on dwarfs and how long they can live without water. I reclaimed a fortress using 63 dwarfs and brought no alcohol with me, and at the site there was no liquid water. They all died nearly instantaneously after 2 months and 7 days [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 00:08, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Life cycle ==

The article could be improved with some information about
*mating / babies / birth
*infancy
*childhood
*adulthood
*old age
Do each of these stages exist?
*Sleep cycles
Dwarves seem to hit the sack pretty much at the same time. Is it a seasonal thing or based on workload?
*marriage
Do dwarves get married or just "shack up"? If I reallocate the bedroom does only one leave or both of them?
*Death and grief

I was hoping to find some information about how long children stay children for. Being of the Nintendo Generation I have been suprised how long they stay kids for (anyone played SIMS? 3 days from birth to school!) but then I guess a year takes a long time in DF. Given "traditional" dwarves are meant to be long-lived does that mean the children will still be children in 30 game years time?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:51, 4 February 2008 (EST)
:Dwarves dont marry or shack up. All marriage occurs "off stage" and the married couples then arrive at your fotress. [[children|Childhood]] lasts 12 years. When a dwarf dies, all of their friends and family get an unhappy thought. If their corpse decomposes outside of a coffin, they get an additional unhappy thought. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:27, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::Your edit just after this one was to [[child]]. I guess that article answers some of my questions, but I wouldn't have thought to look there. I will sort out how this article should link to this one.
::There ''are'' only three stages aren't there: [[child]], [[dwarf]] and ''deceased''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:25, 5 February 2008 (EST)

==Object Data?==
Do dwarves even have object data? Should it be included? Cause I wan't to know their size.
<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>
:Yes. First entry in creature standard.txt [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:47, 10 February 2008 (EST)

==Verify tag about throwing peebles==
I'm pretty sure the original writter of that sentence wanted to talk about the boulder throwing tantruming dwarves. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 09:57, 11 February 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Irrigation

2008-02-10T20:04:50Z

Eagle of Fire:

Irrigation is not always needed for farming. i have my plot inside on sandy clay loam and it works fine. But: would the harvest maybe be better/faster with water? will check out. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:20, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: Made a few changes to clarify.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:36, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:Irrigation is only needed to be able to farm on rock. Soil layers don't need irrigation before you can farm on them. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:04, 10 February 2008 (EST)

40d:Dwarf

2008-02-10T13:06:44Z

Eagle of Fire: Immigrants can also come in fall in rare cases.

__NOTOC__
[[Image:Dwarf.jpg|100px|thumb|An engraving of a dwarf]]

'''Dwarves''' are intelligent [[humanoid]] [[creatures]] that live in fortresses carved from [[mountain]]s. They are the featured [[race]] of [[Dwarf Fortress mode|Fortress Mode]], and also a one of the races playable in [[Adventure Mode]]. They are mainly interested in acquiring wealth and rare [[metal]]s, especially [[adamantine]]. They are [[alcohol]] dependant, and work slowly if deprived of it for long. Their most hated enemies are the [[goblin]]s. Dwarves and most other creatures have an incredible ability to build up enormous strength by throwing pebbles around the place.

Dwarven [[child]]ren become adults at their twelth birthday.
== Dwarves in Fortress Mode ==

Dwarves are a [[trading]] race and will send a [[caravan]] every year in the [[Calendar|fall]]. [[Immigrant|Immigrants]] will be attracted to your fortress as your wealth grows, prompted by the stories of your wealth and the goods that the dwarven traders bring back from your fortress. The immigrants arrive every spring. If your fortress is particularly successful, immigrants might even decide to come early smaller groups and arrive in late fall in addition to the normal wave of spring immigrants.

=== Living among them ===

You cannot start your fortress where another fortress exists.

== Dwarves in Adventure Mode ==

Dwarven mountainhomes and outposts do not have any [[shop]]s, but usually have a variety of fighters to recruit. Outposts have or quest giver{{verify}}, but the monarch of each civilization will give quests at their capital city.

Dwarven characters always start with [[iron]] [[weapon]]s and [[armor]], making them the best-equipped race. Unfortunately, [[human]] armor is too large for them to wear, and humans are the only race with shops, so all armor upgrades will have to come from looting dwarven fortresses. Most human weapons must be wielded two-handed by dwarves, due to their size.

Dwarves have the highest natural armor of the adventuring races, at +1, but are one [[size]] smaller than [[Elf|elves]] and humans, so they cause less damage and absorb less damage. Dwarves are the only race that sometimes enters a [[martial trance]] when beset by many foes, which gives them combat bonuses.

== Mythology ==

In real-life mythology, Dwarves are much like humans, but generally prefer to live underground and/or in mountainous areas. In their fortresses they have accumulated treasures of [[gold]], [[silver]], and [[gem|precious stone]]s, and pass their time fabricating costly weapons and armor. They are famed [[miner]]s and [[smith]]s, although, like humans, they can specialise in any number of trades. Generally shorter than humans, they are on average stockier and hairier, and usually sport full beards. Though slow runners and poor riders, dwarves are excellent warriors and defenders of their strongholds. Dwarves have the ability to forge magical items, which shows off their culture's and species natural craftsmanship. For instance, dwarvish smiths created some of the greatest and most powerful items of power, which inspired the in-game [[strange mood]]s and [[artifact]]s.

''See the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf Wikipedia article]''

{{creatures}}
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Races]]

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-02-08T23:46:19Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Quote randomization */

== Version of MediaWiki? ==
Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses?
Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)
:I think I found out. This page: [[Special:Version]] says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Change guide? ==

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Basic Format ==
I think the [[Farming]] page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. [[Gear Assembly]]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --[[User:Dogcow|Dogcow]] 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Importing old entries ==

What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --[[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:You could use [[Template:Verify]] to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's ''exactly'' what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Demystify messages? ==

Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Humor? ==
Any thoughts about possibly linking [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
<br>""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

== Combat Logs? ==
What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== German Translation ==

I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages LanguageTemplates]? Is there a need for other additional languages? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 14:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)
::My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)
::There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:::My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)
::::I'm French too, you know. But when I offered to host a DF wiki, I didn't do it in French because I know English is widely used. But I'm still glad that someone else started a French wiki. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)

== Requesting installation of ParserFunctions extension ==

It would be nice if the ParserFunctions[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions] extension was installed (#if, #expr, etc). It would be useful for having templates that exclude parts of it if no values are provided. Note: I cannot find a place for requesting extensions --[[User:Aygar|Aygar]] 13:00, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:ParserFunctions has been '''installed'''. I did a quick test and it works. Let me know if you run into problems. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)

== Quote randomization ==

VengefulDonut, if you want to randomize that for improved quality, you'll need to do it right: Many (most?) of the quotes in the quote archive are in an ARCHIVE: They are bad quotes never intended to be reused. Also, what do we do when we get new quotes? Do they get put in a database, not to be used till the RNG chooses? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)
:What would you like? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:36, 7 February 2008 (EST)
::I suggest that one quote is permanant, and the other quote refresh everytime we visit the page. So far, I noticed that even if I refresh the page, the same quotes stay. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 05:49, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:::A new quote on the left, and a randomized archive quote on the right? As for the refesh: the template checks the time. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:35, 8 February 2008 (EST)
::::What is the tick? Every few minutes? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:14, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:::The template checks the time, but the time doesn't update because the server caches the page. It gets a new one whenever the server refreshes it; you can force this by editing the page or by clicking the preview button. Also, I could make it so that one of the quote boxes picks from the newest x quotes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:43, 8 February 2008 (EST)
::::Having a newer quote on the left and an archived one on the right sounds better than a permanent quote on either. PS. Might want to remove a few of them, like the 'palisade' quote. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:47, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:::::The goal of the quote archive was to archive every single quote which ever got to the main page. If you want to thin out only the best quotes, I suggest you use a separate database for that. Even then, how "good" is a quote is very open to interpretation and taste. If I had to remove all the quotes I find bad or unfunny myself, I'd probably remove 80% of the present quotes in the archive. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-02-08T13:14:25Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Quote randomization */

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-02-08T10:49:34Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Quote randomization */

User talk:Eagle of Fire

2008-02-06T19:02:56Z

Eagle of Fire: /* *notices grey-on-black DF personality-screen-like description* */

== I know you! ==

<nowiki>:)</nowiki>
--[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 12:13, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:What a coincidence! I do, too! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::Huzzah! ASCII FOREVA!! --[[User:SupSuper|SupSuper]] 08:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)

==To whomever it may concern...==
What the hell is the "rule P" I keep reading about? O_o --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:59, 10 November 2007 (EST)

: It's a bunch of [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|stupid rules people have come up with]]. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 23:48, 10 November 2007 (EST)
::Hummm... I think your description is pretty accurate. If they want to create rules, I'd be happy with that... But to hide them behind some kind of game... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)
==Obsidian Short Sword==
Is it me or I noticed my dwarf taking up a log of wood to make an obsidian short sword? I wanted to check on the wiki to be sure, but there seem to be no particular page for the obsidian short sword that I could see with a quick search. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:Your obsidian sword needs a hilt. That's why you need the wood. [[User:Boo radley|Boo radley]] 13:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::I think obsidian short swords are really supposed to resemble a dwarf-sized [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl macuahuitl], hence the wood. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 01:47, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:::Would make sense, thanks for the link. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)

== Newbie nonsense ==
Thanks for that slap in the face there, chief. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 12:26, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:If you don't even know why it was put there, I should probably go place it back again. It was probably because you made a bunch of edits one after the other on the same page. Use the preview button and it won't happen again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::I'm well aware as to why it was put there, but it appears more as an insult than advice if you ask me. I did use the preview button, but I didn't see my mistakes until after published. Everyone makes simple mistakes. --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 19:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:::The reason why the <nowiki>{{newbie}}</nowiki> tag was created was to be able to send some quick pointers to new users. Your user page was pretty bland and I can't really keep track of the new users since there is so many now. I simply used the tag in a quick edit. I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff is said almost everyday, using a generic tag is so less bothersome and that much quicker.
:::It should not be taken as an insult but rather as a friendly advice. It's really not that big of a deal. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:08, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::::I'd like to point out that since then I've made a point to doublecheck the last few times I used this tag in the sole purpose of not using it without a good reason. Also, I took the resolution to only use it in talk pages in the future. This should avoid further incidents on the matter. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:40, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:::::I think it would be better to do away with the "newbie" tag altogether. The name of the tag is insulting itself and the text of the tag is less than useful when read by someone feeling insulted. I propose a more respectful tag like "tips". --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 09:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::::::The tag is intended to be subst'd in so that user talk pages arent updated in case of template change. When used properly, the name of the template wont show up at all. <blockquote><nowiki>{{subst:newbie}}<br>--~~~~</nowiki></blockquote>Not as terrible now, eh? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:46, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:::::::It's equally terrible if it's not used correctly. Seems a silly extra step to boost the ego of the person placing the tag. Makes more sense to rename in with something respectful. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::::::Ok. Do it :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:31, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::I have no objection to have it renamed to newcommer or tips or whatever you think is better. It would change ''absolutly'' nothing to me and it's use anyways, I never saw it as a way to feel superior or anything of that kind of crap... For me it's a tool to use sparingly in the right situation. If you look at my user page, you'll see in my description that ''He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary''. Use of this tool is simply a byproduct of this train of thought, by way of prevention. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== orphaned redirect ==

Why do you care so much about an orphaned redirect page? All that matters is that it points in the right direction. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Well, even if I were not to point out that it's adding absolutly nothing to the Wiki, that people are more than ''extremely'' unlikely to actually search with such a long keyword and that the word "retarded" is immature and unneeded... I've clicked on the "what links here" button and found out that the redirect you're talking about is not even linked from either. What kind of purpose would it have other than sporting such a word in it's name?
:None. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:36, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::There are quite a few orphaned redirects that have no purpose any more. For consistency's sake, you should either leave them all alone or hunt them all down ;) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:50, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:::I could not care less about "orphaned" redirects. I think you're completely missing my point... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::::It seems I am missing it; care to enlighten me? It seems inconsistent to me to care about the miner redirect and not care about things like [[negociator]] or [[Quern (item)]]. What is the difference? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:16, 11 December 2007 (EST)
:::::The word "retarded". Why would we need to be so crude in the wiki? There is no need, and the page itself was useless. Nobody's going to spell out a 15 word long search. Not to say that dwarves in DF can't really be "retarded"... It's all about how you make them do what you want which make them intelligent or not. When I was younger, we had an acronym to describe that... PIBKAC.
:::::The reason why I'm prompt to act on that particular page is because it's on my watchlist. I'd probably solve the problem if I realise another page is broken but I'm certainly not going to "hunt" those orphaned pages down for the fun of it. There's way more to do on the Wiki right now to stop at each peeble on the road. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:30, 11 December 2007 (EST)
::::::We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::'''[Conversation cut -> See ''Language'' below.]'''
::::::If I realized that the first page had been deleted, wouldn't have remade it - just wanted to make sure everything was pointing to the proper location when I posted the redirect, and mentally kicked myself when I saw it was marked as (N)ew. :p --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 23:59, 11 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::Yeah, it happened to me once or twice too. I think it's in direct relation with moved pages. I clearly remember that I moved both the talkpage and the page itself to remove the word "retarded" myself. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::You say the language "has no benefit." That point becomes moot because the '''page''' doesn't have benefit either, as is the case with [[negociator]] and [[Quern (item)]]. I'm not going to say we were better off having it, but it wasn't worth the effort to look it up and <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> the bugger, nor is it worth bothering senso about to delete. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:57, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::This argument doesn't make sense [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]. Let me copy and paste you the delete message when we add a del tag: ''This page is marked for deletion. Reasons could include a nonsense title, superfluous information, irrelevant/lack of material or the article could be outdated/duplicated.''
:::::::Had the page in question have a nonsense title? Yes, you said it yourself. Does it have irrevelant or a lack of material? Yes. Is the article outdated and/or duplicated? Yes.
:::::::Isn't that ''way'' enough to warrant the delete tag?
:::::::Oh, and BTW I've just checked your two links. [[Negociator]] have it's use for a search, I've added the delete tag to [[Quern (item)]] because I think it's outdated. Probably an old redirect from another page which got fixed/removed. ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::Almost every redirect merits the del tag going by the standards stated in the tag. Does this mean they warrant deletion? You might as well del [[Running pump with windmill]], too. From the start I was just pointing out that caring about the language use is silly on such a page and that your justification for deleting it applies to a wide spectrum of pages you aren't interested in. I am not saying that the page doesn't merit deletion -- I am saying it doesn't merit deletion '''more''' than all the pages I'm sure you've passed over from time to time and decided you might as well leave alone. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:38, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::I always do an edit if I think it waranted or needed. I very rarely wander on pages you're describing right now. I certainly would have no objection in deleting [[Running pump with windmill]] if you want to...
:::::::::On the subject of redirect, they serve their use if the redirect page is a word which could be commonly or wrongly used for another page or item described in another page. This is mainly to prevent double pages and to make it convenient to the visiting user who's not used to the wiki. But do I really need to explain this? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 21:59, 13 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::::The fact that you would consider explaining it shows the high level of regard you have for me. Amazing how language can be used to transmit venom without the use of vulgar words. In general, all of the redirects with capitalized names that are no longer linked to are useless, as noone will search for them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:05, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::::I had my doubts, but now it's pretty obvious you're just trying to mess with me. I'm not amused. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:24, 14 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::::::I was talking about this with you because consistency in editing is important to me. It's your prerogative not to care what I think, but I would prefer that you don't insult me; directly or otherwise. A simple "I'm not interested in talking about this with you" gets the message accross in a much friendlier way. In any case, the message has been recieved. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:45, 15 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::::::Your message about how important it is to explain everything was sarcastical, right? That's how I took it anyways and I was thinking that you were refering to me in regard to the poison thing, but your very last message lead me to think it might not be the case. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:59, 15 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::::::::The only time I intended to write something sarcastic in this conversation was when I pointed out the tone you used to write the 21:59 13 December 2007 (EST) comment, because things like that tend to escalate if ignored. Other than that, I was trying to convince you. I'm sorry if something I wrote came accross differently. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:20, 15 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::::I apologize for stepping even close to this discussion, but links with capital letters were mentioned. I have been trying to make multiple links like '''S'''hort '''S'''word and '''S'''hort '''s'''word into a link where the first letter is capitalized, and the rest are lower case. This reduces the number of red links, and hopefully makes things more standard. Should I be preforming re-directs instead? It seems like a needless complication, but I'm no wiki expert so I'll follow the lead of whoever is. --Gotthard 14:06, 14 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::::::What you've been doing is correct. You can also help by letting the users who made the mistake know our naming conventions. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:45, 15 December 2007 (EST)

== Societal standards ==

I'm being serious. Murder is flat-out worse than pedophilia; there's no denying that. So how is it that jokes about the former can be acceptable, but jokes about the latter cannot? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:1) I don't agree with you. My oppinion is pedophilia is worse because then the child may be left with permanent psychological scars for the rest of his/her life, which will be long because they're ''children'' who are not experienced enough to know better. Murder is about as bad, but since the murdered person won't suffer from it anymore I'm ranking pedophilia worse. Both are unacceptable.
:2) Jokes from both are unacceptable in a normal social situation. Try to make a joke about the murder of someone in front of his family, and see if they like you. Good luck with that. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::Pedophilia can be viewed as "worse" because the victim is ''necessarily'' an innocent, whereas in a murder that is not the case. Pedophilia is, truly, not funny in the normal sense. Ephebophila, now, that's comedy gold. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::1) I'm sorry, but if I had the choice of being molested/raped as a child or being murdered, I would choose the former without hesitation. If it's truly worse to suffer from the trauma then to be dead, well, they can always just commit suicide. But I seriously doubt that's the case (fortunately, I wouldn't know first-hand).
:::2) Yes, jokes about specific crimes can be very offensive. Since we're not talking about specific crimes, I don't see how that's relevant. In any case, your statement that both are unacceptable, while completely contradicted by the media in my opinion, differs from the statement I was responding to, so I retract my question.
:::Ephebophilia: That's a good point. I was previously unaware of the distinction, and in fact usually when I think of pedophilia, it's actually ephebophilia that I'm thinking of (who wants to think about real pedophilia? That's creepy!). I'll keep that distinction in mind in the future. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::Well I wasn't making a personal judgment call on what is or is not the worse crime. I was speaking from a societal point of view. Pedophilia could easily be seen as a "worse" crime societally - and I'm, again, not making my personal judgment here. I'd just as soon avoid murder and pedophilia, period. Of course, since we're truly talking about murder versus ephebophilia - I would think the latter is far "preferred" societally - and not even criminal all the time. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 19:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::1) Unfortunatly, the whole point of a murder or pedophilia act is that you don't really have a say in the matter. Furthermore, if you really go to the lenght of suiciding after suffering from pedophilia, the end result is then exactly the same than an improved or move vicious murder. Which is why I rank it worse. :P --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::That makes no sense. If you're molested, you have the choice of living with the trauma or committing suicide (not that I advocate the latter). If you're murdered, you have no choice whatsoever. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::Suiciding is something else. I was refering to the pedophilia and the murder acts concerning the "no choice" comment, not suicide. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::Since we're getting all technical about terminology, I'd like to point out that pedophilia is not a crime. It's a sexual orientation. It's acting on the urge (pederasty) that is the crime.—[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:33, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::I realize that. My point is that choices made lead to new choices. The only exception to that is the choice to end a life, which closes off future choices. Life isn't fair, and sometimes our choices get made for us. Sometimes those forced choices can be quite nasty. But a person who is violated but not murdered still has plenty of choices: how they are going to cope, whether they will seek justice, whether they will have spaghetti or tuna salad for dinner, what they will study in school, what they will name their children, how they will spend their retirement, etc. A person who is murdered has none of those choices; the act of ending their life robs them of all their choices, not just one. You talk as if none of those other choices matter in light of the one choice that the molested person didn't get, yet they're the same choices that everybody is faced with. In my view, a person who accepts that effectively has committed suicide, whether they're still physically alive or not. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:48, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==Language==
We still use it ... PEBKAC. ;) --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:30, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:What does the E stand for? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::"Exists". I've never even heard PIBKAC before. lol I suspect they're regional? Wikipedia redirects PIBKAC to PEBKAC, fwiw. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 16:22, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Probably regional, as english is not my native language. It would simply refer as "is" in my version. E and I are phonetically exactly the same in french VS english, this is probably the reason of the difference. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::Oh now that makes perfect sense. How would one say "Eagle of Fire" in French? And are you speaking Algerian, Swiss, Quebecois, Parisian, etc? What dialect do you have? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:09, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::My native language is french, I speak québéquois as the "subculture". Normal québéquois dialect I think, no special accents and the like. At least I don't know we have a name for it. I'm near Montréal, so if there is a name it should be related to that area.
:::::Eagle of Fire end up being a name, my name when I'm on the internet. Which mean that if we follow french conventions, we'd (try to) say it exactly like in english. Literal translation would be "Aigle de Feu", which mean exactly the same thing than in english: an eagle made of fire. Related information: Phoenix (Phénix)[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_%28mythology%29]] --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

While we are on the subject of language, I'd like to thank everybody who did a grammar check on my edits. In the past and in the future. It is a great incentive to contribute to this wiki for someone like me which english is not his native language when, even when you know that what you add is or may not be gramatically correct, some people are always there in the end to correct the pitch. Thanks. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:10, 13 December 2007 (EST)

=== Its VS It's ===
Could someone explain me the difference and why it is better to write ''its'' instead of ''it's'' in some circumstances? I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:35, 23 December 2007 (EST)
:"Its" is the possessive form of "it", while "it's" is a contraction of "it" and "is". ''It's an elephant. Its eyes are bloodshot.'' [[User:Klada|Klada]] 01:57, 23 December 2007 (EST)
::Thanks. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:24, 23 December 2007 (EST)

== Template:version ==

The version template is a bit different now as someone wanted to be able to easily mark pages with old versions as out of date. This should make the usage a bit clearer:
*[[:template:version]]
*[[:category:pages with dated info]]
*[[special:wantedcategories]]
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:09, 2 January 2008 (EST)

== [[:Image:Raynard whirlpool housing.png]] ==

Hey this is a really cool appartment design. I might just have to steal it for my new level of accomodation! Population is going up that quick that my basic square is filling up.

Biggest problem is getting rid of the leftover rock so people can move furniture in and close doors... :( [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:33, 13 January 2008 (EST)

:Try creating a nearby [[dump]] and manually designate ({{k|k}}-{{k|d}}) all the rock from the area for dumping.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:13, 13 January 2008 (EST)

== *notices grey-on-black DF personality-screen-like description* ==

<div style="background: black; width: 50em;"><font face="FixedSys" color="#C0C0C0">
Try these tags. --Savok 13:44, 6 February 2008 (EST)
</font></div>
:Thank you. :) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:02, 6 February 2008 (EST)

User:Eagle of Fire

2008-02-06T19:02:23Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Thoughts and Preferences */

== Thoughts and Preferences ==

[[Image:EagleAvatar.jpg|right|thumb|100px|100px|Friendly Fire]]

<div style="background: black; width: 50em;"><font face="FixedSys" color="#C0C0C0">Eagle of Fire is quite pleased about being part of a great project. He was able to rest and recuperate lately. He has played little Dwarf Fortress recently. He admired own copy of the game recently. He slept in a fine bedroom recently. He ate in a nice dining room recently. He has been satisfied at work recently. He is getting used to tragedy.<br><br>Eagle of Fire likes good computer games, strategy games in general and chess for it's challenge. He can be seen in several sites all over the internet, especially on [http://www.abandonia.com/index2.php Abandonia], [http://www.reloaded.org/ Abandonia Reloaded] and [http://www.lasersquadnemesis.com/ LSN] sites. He likes to contribute whenever he can, but have the tendency of being perceived as aggressive and/or as someone who can't get his point across diplomatically due mainly to a difference of native language. Eagle of Fire prefers to speak French whenever he can. He dislike disorder and particularly hate spammers (bots in particular) and will hunt them down if necessary. He dislikes Java and will use it only when absolutely necessary. He loathes Flash and would prefer to kill instead of using it on his own computer.<br><br>Eagle of Fire is happy working outdoor and complain only mildly about inclement weather. He loathe alcohol and would never consider it to get thru the working day.</font></div>

== Eagle of Fire's Tileset ==

{{Tileset|
|image=[[Image:eofshaded800x600pb9_f64ded.png]]
|author=[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]]
|size=10x12
|resolution=800x600
|comments=Designed for fullscreen. Inspired by Herrbdog's tileset, I created a shaded tileset targeting the default fullscreen 800x600 resolution. Basicaly, you have the exact same "curses" default tileset but with some shading done to the lower right of each letters and items. I've left alone everything which was related to mining or was meant to be plain, for example the smoothered tiles and the plain tiles in the demo. The reason behind that is that I didn't find much logic to have those graphics shaded as they could possibly connect on any direction on the screen, which would make the shading a little strange. Please note that this tileset is only a "beta". I might work on it again if there is enough people who like it and would like improvements. You can discuss the matter [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000645 here].
}}
Further comments: this tileset was added to the wiki list without my knowledge, and thus came into existance simply as "''Eagle of Fire's Tileset''". As I didn't receive any imput or even much replies, I took for granted that it wasn't interesting enough and I didn't bothered to try to improve on it. It is then pretty much simply for my personal use, and I still use it today with the new version. I like fullscreen, and I hate the window font.

==Current Fortress==
===Yeah, sure...===
[[Image:LeaderCrowned.png|center]]

Hehehe... First mood I get for this fortress. I think the whole leader thing is getting to his head! :D

===Humanity, shumanity...===
[[Image:DriedUpPond.png|right|thumb|100px|A diggen out dried up pond, scene of a tragedy.]]

In an attempt to speed up human wagons, I wanted to dig out a dried up pond and fill the sides with upward ramp. Going thru the dried up pond would have been way faster than zigzaging between the (yet) uncut trees and boulders... However, I forgot about the roof of the newly made "cavern", and the cavavan got in the dried up pond while my miner was still working on it. Part of the ceiling decided to collapse on the head of the caravan at that moment, and the wagons disapeared (died?). This left me with a lot of "free" stuff as the merchants packed up and ran away in fear, one of those freebies being my first anvil. At almost the same moment, I've struck a vein of hematite... I think it would be wise of me to start up my metal industry ASAP and prepare for a war...[[Image:StruckHematite.png|center]]

===Giant Spider Attack!===
[[Image:GiantSpiderAttack.png|right|thumb|100px|Giant spiders can be nasty...]]

While exploring a great chasm discovered near the sleeping quarters, a giant spider was discovered and proceeded into ripping appart every single dwarves getting near to collect the webs. Quickly setting up a defense squad sparsely equiped with diverse weapons, the strike team rushed to the rescue. Result of the attack: three deaths and at least as many wounded.

Note to self: when starting up metal operation, start by creating armor first for only a select few. Fighting around chasms is way too dangerous because getting thrown around in fights and thus falling in the chasm itself is way too easy. That, and giant spiders are hardcore and can spit webs which paralyse dwarves... Nasty.

===It's hell down here...===

Nothing to report since a while, except for the dumb immobile goblin sieges... No human attack in sight, but no caravans in years either because of aforementioned goblin sieges... So I decided to do some exploring deep underground in search of more iron. The last vein gave us some good weapons and armor but I could make steel now that I'm not in a hurry. So deep underground exploring we go, until...[[Image:MagmaPipeDiscovered.png|center]][[Image:AbortedCrisis.png|right|thumb|100px|Aftermath of an aborted crisis. This was pretty close!]]

No need to say that I was both thrilled and exited by this discovery, especially since the pit spawn the complete Z axis and that I unluckily mined around it all this time. Only exploratory shafts managed to find it... But maybe the miner was a little too much carried in his work, for he punched thru the pipe and magma began spilling out from the bottom.

Fortunatly, albeit it was from the lower level and that pressure must be pretty strong, magma spill very slowly. I ordered a door built to stop the magma flow, but the stockpile was pretty far from there and it would never had got there in time to stop the spill. In a last attempt to create a ditch, I ordered my mason to create an emergency wall made of a nearby [[obsidian]] rock. Fortunatly for me, he rushed down and built the wall just in time to stop the spill before it reached a bigger main shaft.

Now that the crisis been aborted, it's time to see how we could use the magma to fuel up our forge and smelter. No more need to decimate the entire tree population. :)

40d:Bedroom design

2008-01-29T21:35:47Z

Eagle of Fire: Revert: last edit make no sense.

{{old|0.23.130.23a}}
There are many ways to design the layout of bedrooms. Designs must consider simplicity and ease of designating, efficiency, and aesthetics. The ability to modify the design to enlarge, improve, or add rooms can be important as well. Proximity of the rooms to noise should also be considered.

Many of the designs shown here were taken from [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000432 this forum post].

== Plain square design ==

If it is 2×2, 3×3 or more, square designs are probably the first choice of many players. Easy to plan, easy to put in place, this kind of design is one of the best when the player value his playing time instead of the overall layout of his fortress. While square designs are easy to reproduce en masse, most are not optimized either for beauty or space efficiency, two aspects that other designs excel at.

[[Image:square_bedroom.png]]

== Line design ==

Line designs have the advantage of being very space efficient and very adaptative. From 1×1 to 1×4 and longer, it can fit almost anywhere, can be upgraded later on as long as you have the space behind your first original line and do not need excessive corridor space for the bedroom access. Simply dig a few lines out of an access tunnel already in use in your fortress and voila, you have new living quarters. This kind of minimalistic design is perfect for when the economy kicks in, as it can be adapted in a flash for any kind of low wage citizen.

[[Image:line_bedroom.png]]

== Fractal designs ==

Betting on design beauty and on geometrical symmetry first, fractal designs can also be at the same time very space and walk efficient. They however require a lot of time and space both to plan and execute and are most likely out of reach of all but the most serious players. Most players however agree to say that they are the most incredible of all the designs around, if not the for the sheer challenge of successfully executing something as complex, then for the extra touch it give to the whole fortress as a whole once it is done.

[[image:Raynard_square_delight1.png]] [[image:Raynard_square_delight2.png]]

[[image:Raynard_whirlpool_housing.png]]

[[image:Hactar1_3_branch_tree.png]] [[image:Hactar1_Mandelbrot_Tree.png]]

[[Image:SavokisLeaf08a032.png]]

[[image:Andrelius_Windmill_Villas.png]]

[[image:4bh0r53n_h-fractal.jpg]]

== '''THLawrence's Living Pods''' ==

Apartment
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╠══╬══╬══╬══╣
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝

Lobby
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗..
║..║..║..║..║..
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║..
╠═╣X╚═╩═╝X╚═╝..
║.D╗...........
║..║...........
╠══╣.....╔══╗..
║..║.....║..║..
║.D╝.....╚D.║..
╠═╣X╔═╦═╗X╠═╣..
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║..
║..║..║..║..║..
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝..

X=up/down stairs
D=Door
.=Floor
║=Wall

Put this above each other and get very useful living space.

{{Buildings}}

40d:Bedroom design

2008-01-28T22:30:40Z

Eagle of Fire:

{{old|0.23.130.23a}}
There are many ways to design the layout of bedrooms. Designs must consider simplicity and ease of designating, efficiency, and aesthetics. The ability to modify the design to enlarge, improve, or add rooms can be important as well. Proximity of the rooms to noise should also be considered.

Many of the designs shown here were taken from [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000432 this forum post].

== Plain square design ==

If it is 2×2, 3×3 or more, square designs are probably the first choice of many players. Easy to plan, easy to put in place, this kind of design is one of the best when the player value his playing time instead of the overall layout of his fortress. While square designs are easy to reproduce en masse, most are not optimized either for beauty or space efficiency, two aspects that other designs excel at.

== Line design ==

Line designs have the advantage of being very space efficient and very adaptative. From 1×1 to 1×4 and longer, it can fit almost anywhere, can be upgraded later on as long as you have the space behind your first original line and do not need excessive corridor space for the bedroom access. Simply dig a few lines out of an access tunnel already in use in your fortress and voila, you have new living quarters. This kind of minimalistic design is perfect for when the economy kicks in, as it can be adapted in a flash for any kind of low wage citizen.

== Fractal designs ==

Betting on design beauty and on geometrical symmetry first, fractal designs can also be at the same time very space and walk efficient. They however require a lot of time and space both to plan and execute and are most likely out of reach of all but the most serious players. Most players however agree to say that they are the most incredible of all the designs around, if not the for the sheer challenge of successfully executing something as complex, then for the extra touch it give to the whole fortress as a whole once it is done.

[[image:Raynard_square_delight1.png]] [[image:Raynard_square_delight2.png]]

[[image:Raynard_whirlpool_housing.png]]

[[image:Hactar1_3_branch_tree.png]] [[image:Hactar1_Mandelbrot_Tree.png]]

[[Image:SavokisLeaf08a032.png]]

[[image:Andrelius_Windmill_Villas.png]]

[[image:4bh0r53n_h-fractal.jpg]]

== '''THLawrence's Living Pods''' ==

Apartment
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╠══╬══╬══╬══╣
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝

Lobby
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗..
║..║..║..║..║..
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║..
╠═╣X╚═╩═╝X╚═╝..
║.D╗...........
║..║...........
╠══╣.....╔══╗..
║..║.....║..║..
║.D╝.....╚D.║..
╠═╣X╔═╦═╗X╠═╣..
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║..
║..║..║..║..║..
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝..

Put this above each other and get very useful living space.

{{Buildings}}

40d Talk:Magma

2008-01-26T00:43:53Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Criteria for Magma Buildings */

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Main Page

2008-01-25T01:26:50Z

Eagle of Fire: Revert: that joke quote is already present!

<h1 style="text-align: center; margin-top: 1em">The Dwarf Fortress Wiki</h1>

{{Colored Notice Box|#00f|
<p>'''The latest Dwarf Fortress version is v0.27.169.33g, released 21st December 2007'''</p>
<p>Please ensure that all information added is ''accurate for the new version''. The
[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page archive of the old wiki] is still available.</p>
}}

<p style="max-width: 48em; margin: 0 auto;">
Welcome to the Dwarf Fortress Wiki! This is a collection of user-submitted guides, information and advice for the Roguelike game [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ "Dwarf Fortress"]. Dwarf Fortress is a Windows game (though it can be played on other systems using Wine), developed by [http://www.bay12games.com/ Bay 12 Games] featuring two modes of play, a distinct, randomly-generated world (complete with terrain, wildlife and legends), gruesome combat mechanics and vicious schools of [[carp]].
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<div style="float: left; margin-right: 1em">{{Quote Box|"The interface is coming - it's not coming in your lifetime but it's coming."<br> - [[Toady One]]}}</div>
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{| style="width: 90%; max-width: 50em; margin: 0 auto; border-spacing: 1em; clear: both"
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{| style="width: 100%; background: #fdc; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; text-align: center"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #d66; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''New to Dwarf Fortress?'''
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| style="witdh: 33%" | * [[Your first fortress]] *
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| style="width: 33%" | [[Important advice]]
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{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Playing Dwarf Fortress'''
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{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Gameplay elements'''
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40d:Copper

2008-01-21T02:52:38Z

Eagle of Fire: Wood also make good training weapons.

{{Metal|name=Copper|color=#880|bgcolor=#800|
|ore=
* [[Copper nuggets]]
* [[Malachite]]
* [[Tetrahedrite]]
|uses=
* Make [[bronze]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[brass]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[lay pewter]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[fine pewter]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[trifle pewter]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[nickel silver]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[billon]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[sterling silver]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[rose gold]] at [[smelter]]
* Make [[bismuth bronze]] at [[smelter]]
* [[Armor]]
* [[weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
|properties=
* [[armor|Block]]% 66
* [[Damage]]% 66
* [[Material value]] 2
}}

'''Copper''' is a [[metal]] used in a large number of alloys. It is also one of the least valuable of the metals. Weapons made out of it do mediocre damage (66%) compared to Iron; similarly, armors have mediocre defense (66%). It may be best to use copper to smelt more valuable alloys rather than making weapons and armors. Of course if you don't have wide access to better metals, copper is still a fine metal to use. Copper weapons are the next best training weapons if you dont have access to silver or wood, or can't trade with the elves.

Copper is smelted (at a [[Smelter]])from [[Copper Nuggets]], [[Malachite]], or [[Tetrahedrite]]

A common use of '''copper''' is minting at a [[metalsmith's forge]], creating [[coins]] which value is multiplied by 10{{verify}}. Minted copper coins are then either used in the [[economy]] system or used as a trade good when trading with [[caravan|caravans]].

'''Copper''' may be combined with other metals at a [[smelter]]. The following is a list of recipes involving copper:
*[[Nickel Silver]] = Copper + 2x [[Nickel]] + [[Zinc]]
*[[Bronze]] = Copper + [[Tin]]
*[[Lay Pewter]] = Copper + 2x [[Tin]] + [[Lead]]
*[[Trifle Pewter]] = Copper + 2x [[Tin]]
*[[Fine Pewter]] = Copper + 3x [[Tin]]
*[[Billon]] = Copper + [[Silver]]
*[[Bismuth Bronze]] = 2x Copper + [[Tin]] + [[Bismuth]]
*[[Sterling Silver]] = Copper + 3x [[Silver]]
*[[Black Bronze]] = 2x Copper + [[Silver]] + [[Gold]]
*[[Rose Gold]] = Copper + 3x [[Gold]]
[[Category:Metals]]

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-01-18T15:06:58Z

Eagle of Fire: /* German Translation */

== Version of MediaWiki? ==
Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses?
Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)
:I think I found out. This page: [[Special:Version]] says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Change guide? ==

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Basic Format ==
I think the [[Farming]] page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. [[Gear Assembly]]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --[[User:Dogcow|Dogcow]] 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Importing old entries ==

What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --[[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:You could use [[Template:Verify]] to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's ''exactly'' what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Demystify messages? ==

Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Humor? ==
Any thoughts about possibly linking [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
<br>""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

== Combat Logs? ==
What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== German Translation ==

I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages LanguageTemplates]? Is there a need for other additional languages? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.
::My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)
::There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:::My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-01-17T18:06:42Z

Eagle of Fire: /* German Translation */

40d Talk:Broker

2008-01-15T18:38:10Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Force attendance at Trading Post */

How effective is it to make the Outpost Broker and the Expedition Leader/Mayor the same dwarf? And what complications and problems could arise from job conflictions, if any? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:20, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:None. I always make my expedition leader the broker, bookeeper ''and'' trader, all at the same time. The only downfall is that if he die, from a failed mood for example, you'll have to start over. My leader in my current fortress is also at the same time my legendary crafter and is churning out masterwork items to trade as well as masterwork obsidian short swords in industrial quantity... When I need him to manage work orders or to go trade, I just suspend everything he have to do at the craftdwarf workshop and he go do his broker/trader work. Then I unsuspend everything, and no problems arise. If by a streak of bad luck he's sleeping when I need him to trade, the Sheriff usually take over the trading. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:39, 7 January 2008 (EST)
::How come you'd have to start over if he dies? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 07:15, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:::You have to start over with your noble chain if he dies from his mood when his time come. Meaning that if he's already legendary organizer and legendary everything in fact and he dies of a failed mood, you end up with having to start over again with a completely newbie in social skill instead of someone who came to the fortress with at least a minimum of social skills. This will lead to some minor disagreements, like for example the first time you appoint someone without appraiser skill (I think) you won't be able to see the estimated worth of the items you're trading at the depot. Another example is if you are in a high setting in the bookeeper menu, the new bookkeeper will have to sit a ''long'' time doing nothing but counting everything in the fort to get back to the last bookkeeper status. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 11:00, 12 January 2008 (EST)

== Force attendance at Trading Post ==

How can you force your broker to attend the trading post?

I tried turning off all the other work and then they just go to bed. I'm not actually getting my trader to the depot in time and the merchants are all leaving time after time!

TIA
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:50, 15 January 2008 (EST)
:It's not a matter of your trader not going to the trade depot, it's the matter that you're unlucky enough he have to go sleep at that time. I suggest you appoint someone else as broker or then go at your depot and change the option "Only broker can trade" to "anybody can trade". Someone else should come take over, and more often than not it's the Sheriff who's doing nothing VS all the other dwarves who are hauling/building/sleeping/etc. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:38, 15 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Broker

2008-01-12T16:00:52Z

Eagle of Fire:

User talk:Sphr

2008-01-11T13:55:29Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Minor edits */

== Your Graphic Set, ==

More specifically the Hammerer, is amazing.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 14:09, 19 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks for your kind words :) -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 23:47, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==Praise==

Your sets are fantastic. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see the elves and humans sets in proper working order. Once they are up and running I'll create a graphics pack for them with your permission of course.--[[User:Gorfob|Gorfob]] 02:42, 31 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks. I am working on human military atm, and once that is complete, I'll probably put it up. As for the others, I'll usually put them up after I do enough of the tiles in a tile page. You are welcome to repackage the gfx tiles, well, at least those that are done by me. Do take note that some of those tiles I have not done may still use the ones belonging to Deep Qantas or to DR. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 09:11, 31 December 2007 (EST)

What you're doing with the templates is very clever. I'm interested to see how you use it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:11, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:lol. It's born out of desperation... our wiki seems too old to support some of the newer parser functions, so I thought I try out some of my meta-programming stuff out here, to try to create something like reusable 2d arrays (e.g. for floor plan). Dunno how far it will get though. if you are interested in this kind of stuff, here's the [[User:Sphr/test/test3 | test page]] -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 11:17, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Which tileset are you using in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/images/5/52/Sphr_sample_civilian.png this screenshot?] The font is clean and very pretty. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 07:04, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:oh that's a minor test. I modified guybrush's set to include the kelt font. Can be found here [http://valkyriepub.tripod.com/kelt.htm]. I just replaced the non-accented letters to look at the effects (so my creature names are now a messy mix of Guybrush's levers + the old accented letters + the new kelt font...) -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 07:31, 11 January 2008 (EST)
::ah, Kelt. I could have sworn it looked familiar, but couldn't find it on this computer. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 08:22, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== Minor edits ==

I've noticed you make a very large number of edits to your user pages. All of them show up in [[special:recentchanges]]. However, people can [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&hideminor=1 choose] not to view minor edits, which makes the page look much less cluttered. If you would tag your user page edits as minor it would be very helpful. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:03, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:sorry. was experimenting with declarative functions in wiki.Will do so from now on. --[[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 11:06, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Are you trying to reproduce the Template:RT used in the old version of the Wiki? [[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/RT]] --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:55, 11 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Pike

2008-01-10T16:02:18Z

Eagle of Fire: Disambiguation, dishambigueation...

I didn't try the adventure mode yet for the new version(s), but a pike should also be some kind of big spear usually wielded or sold by humans {{ver|DF 0.23.130.23a}}. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:15, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:This is correct; I just got poked with one by a goblin (which is odd, as I didn't think goblins were larger than dwarves, and pikes are too large for dwarves to wield..right?). Perhaps there should be some sort of disambiguation page between the fish and the weapon. My wiki-fu is weak; I don't know how to make one of those myself. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 09:58, 18 November 2007 (EST)
::I used one with a dwarf avatar in adventure mode in 23a. A lot of people told me you can't wield one, but this is not true. Maybe you simply need to be strong enough? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:20, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:::If I understand the format correctly... Step one is to create a Pike (disambiguation) page, redirect that to PIKE (all caps) and on that page list the various uses and have links from there. However, some of the disambiguations on WikiPedia are done only with a <nowiki>{disambiguation}</nowiki> area at the top of the page, but that seems inefficient as you would have to alter all of those as you add more and more. Example of the first: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ape_%28disambiguation%29&redirect=no ape]. Example of the second: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince prince]. If you do some rooting around, you'll see that most of the prince alternatives are not done in this fashion, and this is probably an old or incorrect method. I can go ahead and make the Pike disambig setup per the first if anyone likes.
::::I think the best way to do this would be to create a redirect at the [[Pike]] page and then link to each individual disambiguation. This way, someone searching for Pike in the search pannel to the left would end up with the right page giving him the choice, and it would not break any page already written. Anybody noticing the change could also direct link the old links as we find them.
::::Also, since the time I wrote my last post, I learned that dwarves can wield any kind of weapon in adventure mode but are restricted to the standard dwarf weapons in fortress mode. When you wield an exotic weapon in adventure mode, you learn the skill of that particular weapon as you fight. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 11:02, 10 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Waterskin

2008-01-10T15:25:28Z

Eagle of Fire:

==Civilians==
Is it possible to get civilians to carry waterskins? I think I'm about to wipe out my entire clan due to all the water being frozen, while they were activated to chase down a kobold (who they didn't manage to catch anyway) they all went and picked up waterskins then they put them down when I deactivated them... now they are dying of thirst since the brook and lakes are all frozen... :( [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:04, 10 January 2008 (EST)
:I do not think it is possible. Only military dwarves can carry a waterskin. You should have planned ahead and built yourself a well or made more booze... ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:35, 10 January 2008 (EST)
:Really what true Dwarf actually drinks water? [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 07:52, 10 January 2008 (EST)
::As unbeleivable as it sound, some outposts seem to have problem producing enough booze in the first few years to allow everyone to drink true to dwarven tradition. Where is the world going, I ask you? ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:25, 10 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Waterskin

2008-01-10T12:35:10Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Civilians */

40d Talk:Trade depot

2008-01-09T23:13:10Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Seize marked goods */

How exactly does the "trader requested at depot" toggle work? Which way is enabled, which way is disabled? And what does it do, even?

Edit: I got to trade with the dwarves by leaving it toggled as "r: Trader requested at depot". It took a litle while for the trade to show up. Anybody figured this out, though?

Edit: Yes, you want to leave it so it's showing the state you want - in this case "Trader requested" not "No trader needed", just like with any other toggled setting. An explanation of what it does is already provided below.

--

Toggling 'Trader Requested at Depot' will queue a job for your trader (designated under [N]obles) to show up at the trade depot. You can check the status of that dwarf at the Trade Depot (it will show their current job in light blue). If you are impatient, you can set the depot to [b] anyone can trade, in which case a dwarf with no job will trade.

I would recommend using a trader with high skill (I believe it is negociation and appraisal) to trade for you, as this will maximise your returns. --Alc 01:11, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

--

I added some more info, please refine as needed. It could use some better detail or a step-by-step path to build and operate a trade depot. [[User:Haddaway|Haddaway]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Verification question ==

Given different social skills for the broker, what are the number of allowed failed attempts at trading? --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:21, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've been doing some experiments on trading. I've got a skilled broker (Adept Appraiser, Competent Negotiator/Persuader, (no adjective) Intimidator/Comedian/Judge of Intent). After pumping the traders up to ecstatic, I attempted to annoy them into leaving by repeatedly offering moderately high value traders with 0 profit margin. It took forever, as he kept talking the traders into accepting the deals (the traders don't seem to be bothered any by deals with negative profit margin), which I assume boosted their mood a little bit. After dozens of proposed deals of varying success he did eventually manage to get them down to the second lowest mood level, and even once they reached the angriest level before they leave, it took 5 rejects in a row (plus a couple more rejects interspersed with successful trades) to get them to leave. Then I reloaded and tried again with a completely unskilled broker. Starting at ecstatic, the traders got angry enough to leave after 5 failed trades from the unskilled broker. I don't know exactly how fast the traders' mood dropped, since of course the unskilled broker couldn't tell me how angry they were. Since that was starting with the traders already ecstatic from successful trades, I would think starting with 3 bad deals in a row with an unskilled broker would be enough to risk the traders leaving. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 13:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== -X level depots ==

Has anyone checked what caravans will/will not go up or down? You can check your access with D but I find that both stairs and ramps still flash red, suggesting a caravan cannot go underground, even if the depot shows up as light-blue Accessible. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 20:16, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've watched wagons move across outside terrain level changes, and out there hills (ramps) flash as red, but the area on the other side (have to change zdepth) flashes green.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 02:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:Ramps are fine, but remember that walls will block adjacent tiles, as do trees and such: it's possible that the top of your ramp (closer to your depot) was blocked, which would cause the whole ramp to appear blocked. Thus, you need a ramp at least three tiles wide to let them through. I've had no trouble getting them to go up a very steep ramp as long as it had sufficient width and the bottom and top was clear.

:Note, of course, that stairs will always block wagons. Wagons don't have legs. =) --[[User:JT|JT]] 14:55, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Trading with elves ==

Exactly what kind of things will elves accept? Obviously no wood items, but what about things like charcoal, pig tail clothing, etc? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 22:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:See [[Elf]]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:36, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Edited dwarves section ==

I removed the bit about dwarf caravans giving you unlimited attempts to trade, because I had the initial dwarf caravan give me three counteroffers. After trying to tweak the third one and hitting trade, the caravan merchant responded with something like "Your childish games have made me tired. Perhaps next time when I return, you'll be ready to do business." And then proceeded to pack up their stuff and leave.

My trade rep had Novice Liar, Novice Negotiator, Novice Appraisal and Novice Intimidator. And, despite failing on all four trade attempts, he picked up Dabbling skill in Flatterer, Persuader, Judge of Intent, and Comedian. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 03:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Entry Location ==

Any rhyme or reason to where the humans, dwarves and elves all enter? For instance, if you nestle your fort in the furthest reaches of a valley that heads through the mountains to the main continent to the east, do they enter from the west side of your map? Or is it entirely random?

:I had the humans enter from the east, and I built a road west. Next year, they entered from the southeast and left to the west, and I built a road east. The following year, they entered along my western road. It's possible they show up randomly until they know you have a road for them, and then they follow that road every subsequent year. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 23:21, 22 November 2007 (EST)

==Offering loads of the same item==

i noticed that when i offered one of the caravans a huge profit, they wouldnt accept (they got fed up and left pretty soon)... i think this is for either of two reasons: i offered them too many of the same thing - about 3 or 4 barrels of stone crafts, or i offered too many low cost things for only a few high cost things... needs verification as i dont have a screenie though [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:57, 5 December 2007 (EST)
:I consistently stuff caravans with the same cheap stone crafts for their goods... It might be an issue with offering too many at one time - I usually do trades of 500-2000 in value at a time, as many as it takes to get everything I want. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 09:14, 6 December 2007 (EST)
:I had a similar problem with the humans, but when they got all pissy and left, they forgot EVERYTHING with them. I couldn't get my haulers to bring the items in, but when the dwarves came next season I could hit 'g' and make them not available for trade. Hello 150k worth of items for free. --Gotthard 18:19, 6 December 2007 (EST)
::The same thing will happen if you destroy the Depot. They leave all their stuff their and demand you build another one. Then they move to the other one and pout about there not being anything there. I will usually offer them a bunch of worthless stuff to fill up their wagons, and make them happier. Raw stone works pretty good. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 23:24, 24 December 2007 (EST)
:Had the same issue, Dwarf caravan got pissed off when I refused to accept their 'proposal' two times, which basically was a demand for $5000 worth of extra items on a $9000 trade. They appeared to leave a lot of their stuff behind though, not all of it as I didn't get the ingots and barrels I wanted :(

== getting bins to the depot ==

well I have several seperate problems really...
# convincing my woodworker to make bins
# getting my bins to the right stockpile area
# getting bins to be filled up
# getting the bin hauled to the depot

I think this is related to "not enough dwarves" but only slightly ;)

?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:52, 4 January 2008 (EST)

== Seize marked goods ==

What is this option used for? I can't seem to seize any goods. Is this a feature that hasn't been implemented? --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 17:58, 9 January 2008 (EST)
:You can't seize good from the dwarven caravan... For any other circumstances, it works very well. I've done it a lot of times to the elven caravan when they get too pissed and don't want to trade anymore... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:13, 9 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Bituminous coal

2008-01-08T13:59:48Z

Eagle of Fire: /* '''Must have coal fuel''' */

This is known ingame as "Bituminous coal", not the other way around, and the article name should probably be changed to reflect that. Anyone with the know-how and/or privilege want to do the honours?

==Coke ratio?==
Has the "3 for 1" coke ratio been tested with the new version yet? I have been trying to create coke from bituminous coal in my current fortress since there is no wood... I've created one coke from one tower-cap wood purchased from the dwarven caravan, then wanted to start out metal production with the mass produced coke from the coal... But whenever my furnace operator take one bituminous coal to the smelter, it only result in one coke. Normally there should be a net gain of two coke for each smelting, no? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

:[[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001388]] Seems like a great case of someone just copying from the old wiki without checking first... -_- --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:13, 10 November 2007 (EST)
::Well, scratch that. My meticulous side forced me to triple check everything, and I finnaly noticed that I somehow didn't know there was a new version out already... I'm still using 32a. -_- I'm sorry for that... At least in the process I learned a thing or two on how formats and templates... Time to generate a new world!--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:50, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::The 3 for 1 is taken from the reaction_stadard.txt raw. It should also hold for 32a [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::::There's a bug in 32a so that smelting coal ore only resulted in one coal, which naturally would be used in smelting the next chunk of coal ore. It's fixed for 33a. --[[User:WyldKarde|WyldKarde]] 01:47, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:::::I can confirm there was a bug in 32a. Since the fortress I now created have ample wood supply, I probably won't be able to confirm that the coal bug been fixed but I guess the countless other people who already tested it at the beginning of november are a voice to be reckoned with. I just can't beleive that Toady got a new version out so fast and that I was so busy IRL that I didn't even notice, nor did I see people talk about it in DF threads... Strange. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:08, 11 November 2007 (EST)

== '''Must have coal fuel''' ==

I have surrounded a [[smelter]] with Bituminous coal.

When I try to add a task to the smelter I get the message:
''Must have coal fuel''.

What am I missing here?
Thanks,[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:46, 8 January 2008 (EST)

:In order to be able to start, you need one fuel unit. Which is usually coal. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:59, 8 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Broker

2008-01-07T12:39:42Z

Eagle of Fire: Answer.

User talk:KittenyKat

2008-01-05T12:05:22Z

Eagle of Fire:

Well this is highly annoying.. I go on a few months hiatus and I come back to my entire account wiped, all my contributions gone and the wiki without any trace I ever did anything here :( On top of that now there's one of those screwy image confirmation things on making a new account that can't be bothered to print what it says reasonably legibly in the image :P --KittenyKat

:Depending on how long a few months is, you could be talking about the same loss the other users had. Senso couldn't transfer the user files over when he made the new wiki (as opposed to the pre-33a wiki that's in the Archive. Check out the [[Talk:Main_Page]] for the full story as is available on the wiki. Hope this helps! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:35, 5 January 2008 (EST)

:You can access the archives of the old Wiki version here: [[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page]]. Your old user page can be found here: [[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:KittenyKat]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:02, 5 January 2008 (EST)

User talk:KittenyKat

2008-01-05T12:02:56Z

Eagle of Fire:

Well this is highly annoying.. I go on a few months hiatus and I come back to my entire account wiped, all my contributions gone and the wiki without any trace I ever did anything here :( On top of that now there's one of those screwy image confirmation things on making a new account that can't be bothered to print what it says reasonably legibly in the image :P --KittenyKat

:Depending on how long a few months is, you could be talking about the same loss the other users had. Senso couldn't transfer the user files over when he made the new wiki (as opposed to the pre-33a wiki that's in the Archive. Check out the [[Talk:Main_Page]] for the full story as is available on the wiki. Hope this helps! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:35, 5 January 2008 (EST)

:You can access the archives of the old Wiki version here: [[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:02, 5 January 2008 (EST)

User talk:Senso

2008-01-02T02:17:19Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Vandal */

I used to go by the name Admin on the previous wiki.

Contact Info

- sensoz@gmail.com

- PM me on SA: Senso

== A request ==

Hullo! I've got a request that's fairly minor, though it's something only doable by an admin - copying the 'collapsible tables' code from Wikipedia's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js MediaWiki:Common.js] to [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] (or might have to be [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], I'm not sure if the configuration on this particular install is different). This would mainly be for the benefit of things like [[Template:Creatures]], to keep them as useful (go directly to related pages without loading a category page in-between) but without taking so much space on the screen. --[[User:Sukael|Sukael]] 15:50, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

: Done. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:20, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:: Thanks! As you can see at [[Template:Creatures]], it looks to be working perfectly. --[[User:Sukael|Sukael]] 21:12, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:::That's pretty fucking sweet. I didn't even know you could do that with MediaWiki. :)

== Wikipedia links ==

I've just noticed that when I'm not logged in, a link to a random Wikipedia help topic appears on every page in small font in the upper right. Is there any way to disable it? Most of the topics I've seen so far are pretty specific to Wikipedia and don't really belong here. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, it's annoying - I'll look into it. It seems to be well hidden into an obscure CSS file. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:33, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Old Bloodline article in main namespace ==

There is probably an article named [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] in the main namespace that redirects to Outpost Ducimemal, which in turn redirects to the Bloodline namespaced Outpost Ducimemal. This is causing some confusion on the double redirects page. Is there any way to fix this? I can't seem to get at the mainspaced article to fix the redirect (though it would probably best be just to delete it). --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 20:20, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Thanks, I've deleted [[Outpost Ducimemal]], which was a redirect to [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] since I added the namespace. I don't think [[Bloodline:Outpost Ducimemal]] redirects to anything. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:: It now shows up in [[Special:BrokenRedirects]]. This page exists from prior to the bloodline namespace being created and thus was in the main namespace but is now effectively masked by the bloodline namespace article. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 13:32, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:::The MediaWiki manual has some instructions on [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces#Dealing_with_existing_pages dealing with this]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:11, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::::Even easier: I've manually deleted the redirects in MySQL. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:35, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Database wiredness ==

Since you've fixed this before...

[[Special:Special pages]] -> [[Special:Lonelypages|Orphaned Pages]] -> How do I stop my retarded miners falling in channels as they dig them?

This gets redirected to ''How do I stop miners from falling in channels as they dig them?'' - however, it is not the same one you go to if you hit that page directly or through the FAQ. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 18:52, 6 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm looking into this. It seems that putting the '?' character in the title tends to break things.

== Vandal ==

Hi. [[User:Billdauterive]] ([[Special:Contributions/Billdauterive|contribs]]) keeps reverting the [[Goblin]] article to call them "pedophiles". Could you block his account or ban him, at least temporarily? After five edits it's just annoying. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:35, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:I have reported it on [[SpamReport]] also, mirroring the old page on the old Wiki. If something like this happen again, should I come here to report it instead? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm watching both pages but I'd say [[SpamReport]] is better. I've warned the guy, I'll block him if he does it again. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:32, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Just to make sure that you were aware of it, please take knowledge of this matter posted on the main DF forum: [[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001513]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 21:17, 1 January 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Channel

2008-01-01T10:39:10Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Falling */

==Empty channels as moats==
Can land-bound enemies cross empty channels? Or would an empty channel dug around your entire fort suffice to prevent intruders? [[User:Julius|Julius]] 19:53, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:Probably not... I'm assuming they'd just fall down a z-level, just like your dwarves do.--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 20:07, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:A channel with a constructed wall on the inner side is an ultimate defence against every non-flying creature. Without the wall enemy archers/crossbowmen can deal some damage.--[[User:Another|Another]] 07:10, 22 November 2007 (EST)

==Falling==
Can digging a channel, that has a solid floor below it, under a dwarf, that would result in the dwarf falling in, cause death or make the dwarf unable to operate?
:Don't see why not, the dwarf is falling so could get hurt (although death would be unlikely) and it's also possible any stone generated from the fall could land after, but I have no idea how that is worked out so that might not be true. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 07:27, 22 November 2007 (EST)
::Happened to me more than once. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 07:55, 22 November 2007 (EST)
:::What has happened more than once? Falling? Ya, I just asked because it is good to know and I have a big project involving digging through many levels of rock and channels are the most efficient way to do it. --[[User:Nerd10101|Nerd10101]] 01:04, 23 November 2007 (EST)
::::If you dig from the top to the bottom and plan everything out, you should not have a problem. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:10, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:A one-layer fall has never caused serious damage on my fort. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 01:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)
::A dwarf that drops one z-level is not damaged, just temporarialy stunned. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 02:35, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:::I got dwarves suffer very serious injuries from falling one Z in a chasm to the second level while fighting, though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:32, 23 November 2007 (EST)
::::Is it possible for a dwarf to get out of a channel if they fall in? - [[User:Znex|Znex]] 04:47, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::::Other than creating stairs/ramps, I don't believe so. If they could, then channels/moats wouldn't be very effective in defense. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:54, 1 January 2008 (EST)
::::::So...it could never get out? - [[User:Znex|Znex]] 05:23, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:::::::Channels now create a hole to the next Z level down. This mean that the dwarf would need some way to get up, like a stair or ramp. I am not sure if they could just swim to the surface and get up this way if the channel is full of water though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 05:39, 1 January 2008 (EST)

==Andesite==

This rock seems to block all of my buildings, doors and workshops especially. Have I just never noticed rock blocking things before now?
:An object wont block construction unless it is tasked for something already. Tasked means there is a job in the job queue that wants to do something with that particular object, so dwarves are not allowed to interact with it unless they are doing it for that particular job. Large stone stockpiles will leave a lot of rocks tasked (because stone hauling is slow), preventing dwarves from moving them out of the way to place doors and buildings. In the [[stone management]] article there are methods of dealing with the large amounts of stone your miners produce. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:20, 23 November 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:How do I construct a wall from a particular direction

2007-12-28T19:45:15Z

Eagle of Fire: /* More research needed */ Moving post to proper reply point.

This doesnt work. They ignore the restricted designation. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 00:43, 25 December 2007 (EST)
:I just tested this. It does work, for me at least. Prevents my retarded dorfs from walling themselves in with the lovely magma flow that's coming in at a good speed. --[[User:Corbine|Corbine]] 05:34, 25 December 2007 (EST)
::They rewall from the east when the west side is fully accessible and pathable but is 'restricted' via traffic designations? I have some doubts. It is definitely worth testing with lone pillars in the field.--[[User:Another|Another]] 07:25, 25 December 2007 (EST)
:::Perfectly worked for me. Now I can wall my open chambers instead of placing a door in the open space. It is worth nothing though that I successfuly tested it in mostly closed space. I think the point of this method is to have a wall with only one piece missing, then restricting one side of the wall should lead the masson to "prefer" the side of the wall which is not restricted to build the last wall piece. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:34, 27 December 2007 (EST)
== More research needed ==

This has definitely worked for me before, but it's not 100%. I just tested it out in the open, and the dwarf totally ignored my designation. I'll keep testing.

1. What about placing a construction on the undesired tile, then suspending it? Does that work? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 13:43, 26 December 2007 (EST)

2. There's always the babysitter method: watch the dwarf build, if he ends up on the wrong side quickly suspend construction so he leaves, then turn it back on. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 13:43, 26 December 2007 (EST)

:Perhaps setting every square but the desired one would help. We don't know how prioritized the default behavior is. When I try to stop blood from spreading (in previous versions) I would designate that square and a bunch in the area too, because I found they would still go through the square. --Gotthard 18:45, 27 December 2007 (EST)
::If I understand well what Toady explained in a thread on the forums, all what restricting does is that if the pathing of a dwarf goes thru a restrited tile, the pathing algorith will (try to) recalculate a better route X amount of time. You can see (and change) it in the init file:

:''Change these numbers to set the default weights for traffic designations. If you make the last'' ''numbers too large, pathfinding might lag.''
:''The format is (PATH_COST:<high>:<normal>:<low>:<restricted>).''

:''[PATH_COST:1:2:5:25]''

::This mean that when you restrict a square, if the pathing algorithm happen to plot a way into it, it will recalculate up to 25 times (by default) to try to find a better route. If it fails, it will keep the same route and the dwarf will walk thru the restricted space.

::I think people mix up the terms "restricted" and "forbiden", when in fact it's in no way coded to act like a barrier for dwarves but more as a way to "nudge" dwarves gently in better area(s). --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:42, 27 December 2007 (EST)
:::Yup. Personally, I thought the pathfinding cost made that a little obvious. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 22:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

:::Clarification: "recalculate" is not a proper word here. Path is always calculated only once and all <restricted> do is making the dwarves think that the length of the path to their destination across a restricted tile is by 11.5 <normal> or 24 <high> tiles longer that it would be without <restricted> designation. Personally I try to avoid <restricted> as it does not completely prevent dwarves from anything and designate <high> in my main halls/roads fooling my dwarves into believe that the path along those is 2 times shorter then alternatives across my stockpiles/workshops/sleeping blocks. Designating large areas as <restricted> can supposedly cause some FPS drop due to constant calculating of very long routes.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:45, 28 December 2007 (EST)

40d:Bedroom

2007-12-28T07:01:54Z

Eagle of Fire: Small rewrite.

A '''bedroom''' is a [[room]] defined from a [[bed]]. A dwarf will usually store their belongings in their bedroom when not carrying them. A dwarf will claim an unassigned bedroom after [[Sleep|sleeping]] in it, but they can be manually assigned. [[Marriage|Married]] dwarves will share a bedroom, even sleeping in the same bed; [[children]] will also share a bedroom with their mother until they grow up.

Once the economy starts, dwarves will get unhappy thoughts from not having a [[chest]] in their bedroom.

Military and bedroom-less dwarves have the option of sleeping in a [[barracks]]. Dwarves will sleep in a bed that is not defined as a bedroom if no alternative is available.

It is best to place bedrooms far from [[workshop]]s and other work areas due to [[noise]].

A group of bedrooms together are commonly called living quarters, or living area. Enterprising players often try to find a design for their living quarter area which is either very space efficient or easy on the eye. This subject haven't been tackled much yet but you can see the different designs most often used by players of older versions {{v|DF 0.23.130.23a and down}} [[bedroom design|here]]. Most of them are still applicable on the newer versions {{v|DF 0.27.169.32a and up}} but could possibly be heavily modified to benefit from the new Z-axis stairs placing.

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Rooms]]

40d Talk:How do I construct a wall from a particular direction

2007-12-28T00:42:33Z

Eagle of Fire: /* More research needed */

This doesnt work. They ignore the restricted designation. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 00:43, 25 December 2007 (EST)
:I just tested this. It does work, for me at least. Prevents my retarded dorfs from walling themselves in with the lovely magma flow that's coming in at a good speed. --[[User:Corbine|Corbine]] 05:34, 25 December 2007 (EST)
::They rewall from the east when the west side is fully accessible and pathable but is 'restricted' via traffic designations? I have some doubts. It is definitely worth testing with lone pillars in the field.--[[User:Another|Another]] 07:25, 25 December 2007 (EST)
:::Perfectly worked for me. Now I can wall my open chambers instead of placing a door in the open space. It is worth nothing though that I successfuly tested it in mostly closed space. I think the point of this method is to have a wall with only one piece missing, then restricting one side of the wall should lead the masson to "prefer" the side of the wall which is not restricted to build the last wall piece. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:34, 27 December 2007 (EST)
== More research needed ==

This has definitely worked for me before, but it's not 100%. I just tested it out in the open, and the dwarf totally ignored my designation. I'll keep testing.

1. What about placing a construction on the undesired tile, then suspending it? Does that work? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 13:43, 26 December 2007 (EST)

2. There's always the babysitter method: watch the dwarf build, if he ends up on the wrong side quickly suspend construction so he leaves, then turn it back on. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 13:43, 26 December 2007 (EST)

:Perhaps setting every square but the desired one would help. We don't know how prioritized the default behavior is. When I try to stop blood from spreading (in previous versions) I would designate that square and a bunch in the area too, because I found they would still go through the square. --Gotthard 18:45, 27 December 2007 (EST)
::If I understand well what Toady explained in a thread on the forums, all what restricting does is that if the pathing of a dwarf goes thru a restrited tile, the pathing algorith will (try to) recalculate a better route X amount of time. You can see (and change) it in the init file:

:''Change these numbers to set the default weights for traffic designations. If you make the last'' ''numbers too large, pathfinding might lag.''
:''The format is (PATH_COST:<high>:<normal>:<low>:<restricted>).''

:''[PATH_COST:1:2:5:25]''

::This mean that when you restrict a square, if the pathing algorithm happen to plot a way into it, it will recalculate up to 25 times (by default) to try to find a better route. If it fails, it will keep the same route and the dwarf will walk thru the restricted space.
::I think people mix up the terms "restricted" and "forbiden", when in fact it's in no way coded to act like a barrier for dwarves but more as a way to "nudge" dwarves gently in better area(s). --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:42, 27 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:How do I construct a wall from a particular direction

2007-12-28T00:34:12Z

Eagle of Fire:

40d Talk:Goblin

2007-12-27T14:17:36Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Goblin Siege */

==== Thieves & cage traps ====
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion

:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:Uh, surely this isn't a real tag? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:15, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::It's used on gnomes, so that they can drink your booze if they find it. Strangely, it's also used on bears. Mindsnap, try <nowiki>[CURIOUSBEAST]</nowiki>. It's not anywhere in the default raws, but it's in the program text so it may be recognised. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Snatchers / pedophiles ==

Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::I'm very confident that if it continue, it will result in the ban of [[User:Billdauterive|Billdauterive]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:I support the word "snatcher" over "pedophile", for three reasons. First, it's more likely to be immediately understood by all wiki readers. Second, we're not talking same-species kiddy snatchers here - these are goblins, and goblins enslave and/or eat dwarf children. Third, why suggest nastiness and smut (as though dwarven kids ''a la carte'' wasn't horrid enough!) in a wiki without firm grounds? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 16:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::I wasn't suggesting removing the word "snatcher" at all. You've got to agree that it seems a bit peculiar that the snatchers ''only'' target children. Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile goblins are sick? Seems like a double standard to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Nothing strange at all about targetting only children. They're easier to catch, easier for goblins (who are no great size themselves) to carry, can't resist as well, are much more tender when cooked, and can be permanently enslaved more easily. There's just flat-out no reason to bother with any mention of pedophilia. --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
:::''Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile <s>goblins</s> are sick?'': Because it's the truth. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::Meh. As long as it stays fantasy I don't have a problem with them. Much. I don't subscribe to the notion of thoughtcrime. It's the pederasts, who act on the urge, that are the criminals.<br/>—[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::For the record, it's not just boys that get molested, girls do too. --Gotthard 17:52, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::Well, if I keep with the current "for the record" trend, I have to say that I would have no problem with having goblin pedophiles in game. It's a simulation afterall. Thing is, the current discussion is related to the article page, which is used in real life by humans and not dwarves. There is also no proof at all that goblin snatchers are pedophile, so not only it is a false entry but, as I said, since it's read by real life humans then the comment can also be considered offensive. Which is my case, I do find it offensive and there's no good reason to justify it. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::::<br/>Certainly. I know that. Pederasty is the closest word we have, though. Statutory rape, while applicable, is a broader term. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::::The only reason I made the distinction is that girls are far more likely to suffer long term damage from sexual abuse. Pederasty refers only to males. Anyway, [[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] I don't think the term should be in the article unless for some reason it is in the game. My 'for the record' comment was more off topic on the definition of the word than an attack. [[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] and I seem to be on the same page anyway. --Gotthard 19:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::A through search of the games strings turns up no occurances of '''pedo''', '''pede''', or '''rape'''. '''Sex''' occurs only in the word '''''sex'''tuplets'', and in the programming term ''RegisterClas'''sEx'''''. For what that's worth. I will add my personal opinion that I also think it doesn't belong in the article. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::To be fair, 'rape' is a word in the in-game goblin language, and often appears as a surname, or civilization name. I do agree that this oughtn't be in the article, though; I suspect that children are probably taken for eating, not raping. —[[User:Captain Epix|Captain Epix]] 22:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Besides, murderous carp aren't real to life the way pedophilia is. A large zombie fish attacking a mythological creature is a bit more abstract than the a pedophile (traditionally viewed as human) molesting a small child. Frankly, I like the lack of swearing and general offensiveness of the wiki, it's a nice change compared to most of the internet. Why spoil that for the ones that like it, for information that is unclear and doesn't help understanding the article? --Gotthard 17:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:A thought: assume, arguendo, that the children are stolen for such a purpose. This implies not only rape and statutory rape, but also sex outside one's species. (Not quite bestiality, but similar. We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.) And since there are many snatchers, this must be sanctioned by goblin society. How warped they must be! Comments? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::''We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.'' Isn't that more or less what the word yiffing means? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:19, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Point. Though I think it hasn't entered the mainstream. Another one: in the ''Ringworld'' series, there's the concept of 'rishathra', ceremonial inter-species (though all descended from homo erectus) sex for the purpose of sealing trade agreements and alliances. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:53, 12 December 2007 (EST)
'''I find it surprising that such a large debate has resulted [[User_talk:Billdauterive|from the actions of an obvious vandal.]]''' --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 20:04, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, that comment's not scoring him any points. Although at least he appears to have stopped editing the page. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 21:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:It's not like I like to talk about those things, but I thought it was important to have a discussion against the idea of having pedophilia added to a page when it's unneeded... Read above. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:18, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::I don't believe there was a chance it ''would'' be added, discussion or no. At best it was a crude, immature attempt at humor. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:17, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:::[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] started this discussion, and I've taken his first comment as a suggestion to consider it. It was enough for me. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)

== Goblin Siege ==

it´s the year 1059 and I stillwaiting for a goblin siege. the kitnappers are comming since 2 years already...

I have the newest verison (0.27.169.33g)
so what´s wrong?
:Are you sure goblins have access to your fortress? You should be able to see that on the embark screen. If goblins used to raid you all the time (like me) and you don't see them at all since the new version (like me), goblin sieges might be broken again... (I'm very happy to have been able to play almost two years now without invasions... I now have almost double amount of dwarves and I can trade now!) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:47, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::sorry. that waqs just a bad timing. (10 minutes later the goblins came. late but now they are here)
::bad luck ^^;
::by the way...since the first dig in the mountain I am waiting for the goblins (I have over 400 traps) and a bridge-system with fortifications...so it was a little bit boring without goblins. no matter >:D
::thank you for your help!
:::No problems... I've seen so many people complaining about the lack of gobling sieges since 33g that I was wondering myself if they were broken or not. They're supposed to attack you now instead of sitting on the edge of the map, can you confirm that? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:42, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::::of course they do. but they came in where no connection was (okok...it was a bridge)
::::so I had to dig a new way...and yes they are very agressive! I wondered why the goblin force came exacly at the beginning of 1060...coincidence?
:::::Depends if you're playing a game from a fortress ported from lower versions like me or not. Hard to say when you're playing an old game and didn't start the fortress on a world generated on the same version. It could be anything that Toady ajusted and you're simply over a certain limit by far and it takes a while before they raid you again... From that point on, it's only speculation unless some specific corrolations can be made. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 09:17, 27 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Goblin

2007-12-27T13:42:48Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Goblin Siege */ (plus typo fix)

40d Talk:Goblin

2007-12-27T12:47:16Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Goblin Siege */

==== Thieves & cage traps ====
Not sure that Goblin (master) thieves /can/ evade traps. I've caught a bucketful in cage traps. Didn't know what to do with them, mind... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:23, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I've noticed that when i melt down Narrow Steel Equipment, all i get is Copper! can someone verify this as a bug or intentional? -- Bullion

:I would think that that would be a bug. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Does adding [CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER] actually semi-fix sieges? I thought that it didn't. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 18:42, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:Uh, surely this isn't a real tag? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:15, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::It's used on gnomes, so that they can drink your booze if they find it. Strangely, it's also used on bears. Mindsnap, try <nowiki>[CURIOUSBEAST]</nowiki>. It's not anywhere in the default raws, but it's in the program text so it may be recognised. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Snatchers / pedophiles ==

Why not just leave it as <s>pedophiles</s> "snatchers"? I think it's funny. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:55, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:Why not deal with it as "civilized" people? I mean have some sort of a voting with an argumented discussion on the talk page before a wiki admin say his final word. Those who reverted the change were at least stating something in the summary field. I myself don't think that this bit of humor is appropriate to this article and the user who did it again and again seems to be a vandal for me.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::Whatever you do or say, pedophiles are no laughing matter. What's wrong with you [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]? >:( --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:28, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::There are about 30 episodes of Family Guy that would beg to differ. However this turns out, please stop the edit war. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::I'm very confident that if it continue, it will result in the ban of [[User:Billdauterive|Billdauterive]]. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:I support the word "snatcher" over "pedophile", for three reasons. First, it's more likely to be immediately understood by all wiki readers. Second, we're not talking same-species kiddy snatchers here - these are goblins, and goblins enslave and/or eat dwarf children. Third, why suggest nastiness and smut (as though dwarven kids ''a la carte'' wasn't horrid enough!) in a wiki without firm grounds? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 16:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::I wasn't suggesting removing the word "snatcher" at all. You've got to agree that it seems a bit peculiar that the snatchers ''only'' target children. Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile goblins are sick? Seems like a double standard to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:27, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Nothing strange at all about targetting only children. They're easier to catch, easier for goblins (who are no great size themselves) to carry, can't resist as well, are much more tender when cooked, and can be permanently enslaved more easily. There's just flat-out no reason to bother with any mention of pedophilia. --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
:::''Why is it that murderous carp are funny but pedophile <s>goblins</s> are sick?'': Because it's the truth. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::Meh. As long as it stays fantasy I don't have a problem with them. Much. I don't subscribe to the notion of thoughtcrime. It's the pederasts, who act on the urge, that are the criminals.<br/>—[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::For the record, it's not just boys that get molested, girls do too. --Gotthard 17:52, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::Well, if I keep with the current "for the record" trend, I have to say that I would have no problem with having goblin pedophiles in game. It's a simulation afterall. Thing is, the current discussion is related to the article page, which is used in real life by humans and not dwarves. There is also no proof at all that goblin snatchers are pedophile, so not only it is a false entry but, as I said, since it's read by real life humans then the comment can also be considered offensive. Which is my case, I do find it offensive and there's no good reason to justify it. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::::<br/>Certainly. I know that. Pederasty is the closest word we have, though. Statutory rape, while applicable, is a broader term. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::::The only reason I made the distinction is that girls are far more likely to suffer long term damage from sexual abuse. Pederasty refers only to males. Anyway, [[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] I don't think the term should be in the article unless for some reason it is in the game. My 'for the record' comment was more off topic on the definition of the word than an attack. [[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] and I seem to be on the same page anyway. --Gotthard 19:12, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::A through search of the games strings turns up no occurances of '''pedo''', '''pede''', or '''rape'''. '''Sex''' occurs only in the word '''''sex'''tuplets'', and in the programming term ''RegisterClas'''sEx'''''. For what that's worth. I will add my personal opinion that I also think it doesn't belong in the article. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::To be fair, 'rape' is a word in the in-game goblin language, and often appears as a surname, or civilization name. I do agree that this oughtn't be in the article, though; I suspect that children are probably taken for eating, not raping. —[[User:Captain Epix|Captain Epix]] 22:51, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Besides, murderous carp aren't real to life the way pedophilia is. A large zombie fish attacking a mythological creature is a bit more abstract than the a pedophile (traditionally viewed as human) molesting a small child. Frankly, I like the lack of swearing and general offensiveness of the wiki, it's a nice change compared to most of the internet. Why spoil that for the ones that like it, for information that is unclear and doesn't help understanding the article? --Gotthard 17:50, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:A thought: assume, arguendo, that the children are stolen for such a purpose. This implies not only rape and statutory rape, but also sex outside one's species. (Not quite bestiality, but similar. We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.) And since there are many snatchers, this must be sanctioned by goblin society. How warped they must be! Comments? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::''We don't have a word for sex with a sapient that is not of one's own species.'' Isn't that more or less what the word yiffing means? --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:19, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::Point. Though I think it hasn't entered the mainstream. Another one: in the ''Ringworld'' series, there's the concept of 'rishathra', ceremonial inter-species (though all descended from homo erectus) sex for the purpose of sealing trade agreements and alliances. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:53, 12 December 2007 (EST)
'''I find it surprising that such a large debate has resulted [[User_talk:Billdauterive|from the actions of an obvious vandal.]]''' --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 20:04, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:Yeah, that comment's not scoring him any points. Although at least he appears to have stopped editing the page. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 21:05, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:It's not like I like to talk about those things, but I thought it was important to have a discussion against the idea of having pedophilia added to a page when it's unneeded... Read above. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:18, 12 December 2007 (EST)
::I don't believe there was a chance it ''would'' be added, discussion or no. At best it was a crude, immature attempt at humor. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:17, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:::[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] started this discussion, and I've taken his first comment as a suggestion to consider it. It was enough for me. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)

== Goblin Siege ==

it´s the year 1059 and I stillwaiting for a goblin siege. the kitnappers are comming since 2 years already...

I have the newest verison (0.27.169.33g)
so what´s wrong?
:Are you sure goblins are access to your fortress? You should be able to see that on the embark screen. If goblins used to raid you all the time (like me) and you don't see them at all since the new version (like me), goblin sieges might be broken again... (I'm very happy to have been able to play almost two years now without invasions... I now have almost double amount of dwarves and I can trade now!) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 07:47, 27 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan

2007-12-26T06:40:38Z

Eagle of Fire:

====Insane merchants?====
I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.

How do I prevent this happening again? Because this lot are starting to putrify...[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:23, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Damned if I know. I now make a habit of locking up the outpost liaison because he's gone insane, often berserk, in every game I've played.
Ever. [[User:PandaKnight|PandaKnight]] 02:45, 17 November 2007 (EST)
====Caravan roads ====
Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road? Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:In v33a, no caravans need roads. However, I think the human caravan needs a smoothed, 3-wide path to a map edge - but I'm not certain about this.
:It's probably worth mentioning that roads might speed up a caravan - reducing the chance that they leave before they've unpacked.[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:(Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think you can influence where the caravan appears. I know that both the Elven and Dwarven caravans have ignored my roads when choosing their starting position.)[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:33, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:On a relatively flat and moderately forested map I recently played, each civ seemed to have a preferred side of the map to enter, but were relatively random about where on the edge they appeared. I built a straight, smoothed road to each edge that went largely unused. The human wagons are happy to go up and down slopes and cross quite rough (but unobstructed) ground to reach me. A smooth road would almost certainly speed their arrival and departure. As an aside, the goblin civ in my current map has been quite happy to start sieges from several different sides, so take the directionality with a grain of salt. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)

====Bugged Human Caravans====
I've had a crash bug associated with the arrival of the human caravan. Interestingly, when I raised my drawbridges, limiting access to my depot to a torturous 1-wide path, the caravan arrived OK with the message along the lines of "the wagons have bypassed this stop." I only got the mule-back traders, but no crash. This repeated the next year. I'm guessing this relates to Toady's comments about a seed pricing bug. It's possible that it's a pathing issue with the wagons, of course. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)
:Since upgrading to 33b, I have not seen this bug. Hooray! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 22:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

====Caravans immune to drowning?====
Can anybody confirm this? It looks like very unlikely to me... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Macros and keymaps

2007-12-26T02:41:06Z

Eagle of Fire:

Is 'Playing Dungeon Fortress' (first few words of the article) supposed to be a joke? --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:36, 25 December 2007 (EST)
:Probably meant to say "fortress mode"... Must be a typo which got overlooked. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 21:41, 25 December 2007 (EST)

User talk:Eagle of Fire

2007-12-23T07:24:35Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Its VS It's */ Thanks.

User talk:Eagle of Fire

2007-12-23T06:35:02Z

Eagle of Fire: Question.

40d:Strange mood

2007-12-23T06:00:08Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Unresolved questions */ ==> Answering a question with a link to Toady himself.

{{old|v0.23.130.23a}}

'''Help! A crazy dwarf is in my metal shop and I need to make giant axe blades to fend off the [[Undead|skeletal]] [[carp]]!'''

Periodically, individual dwarves in your fortress will be struck with an idea for a [[legendary artifact]] and enter a '''strange mood'''. Dwarves which enter a strange mood will stop whatever they are doing and pursue the construction of this artifact single-mindedly. They will not stop to eat, drink, sleep, or even run away from dangerous creatures. If they do not manage to begin construction of the artifact within three months or so, they will go [[Strange Mood#Failure|insane]] and die soon afterward.

However, if a dwarf does manage to create an artifact, he or she will gain one [[legendary]] [[skill]] (with one exception: "possessed" dwarves will create an artifact but gain no skill from it).

== Strange-mood behavior ==

When a dwarf is struck by a strange mood, the game will automatically center the map on the moody dwarf, pause, and alert you to his or her particular mood. While in a mood, a dwarf will display a blinking exclamation point (see [[status icons]]).

=== Workshops ===

After entering a mood, a dwarf will stop whatever he or she is doing, head to a [[workshop]], and "claim" it, kicking out any other dwarf who may be using it. The workshop a dwarf takes over will usually depend upon the dwarf's highest "trade" [[skill]]: a Bone Carver, for instance, will generally take over a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]]; a Jeweler will take over a [[jeweler's workshop]]; a Mechanic will take over a [[mechanic's workshop]]; and a Metalsmith will take over a [[forge]].

Most farming-, fishing-, trapping-, and combat-related skills (grower, thresher, brewer, fish cleaner, animal trainer, axedwarf, etc.) do not count as "trade" skills (although Tanners can enter strange moods, and will take over a [[tanner's shop]]).

Active [[soldiers]] can enter a strange mood if they have any trade skills from before they were conscripted. A soldier will be removed from his or her [[squad]] during the course of a mood and returned to it upon successful completion of an artifact. If a soldier has gained a legendary skill, you may wish to make use of it by removing that dwarf from the military.

If the right workshop is not available, a moody dwarf will stand idle instead (in their bedroom, outside the fort, in a [[sculpture garden]] or [[meeting hall]], etc.) waiting for you to construct the right workshop. You can usually tell which workshop a moody dwarf wants by {{key|v}}iewing their skills; their highest trade skill will dictate which workshop you should build for them. Be warned, however, that a moody dwarf will not help you construct a workshop. If you do not have another dwarf with the skills to construct it, you must enable the relevant skill on another dwarf.

Moody Glassmakers will require a [[glass furnace]] instead of a workshop, but Furnace Operators will require a [[forge]]. If your miners have reached the [[magma flow]], any dwarf requiring a forge will insist on a [[magma forge]], and will ignore any existing charcoal-powered forges.{{verify}} Glassmakers will use either a charcoal- or a magma-fuelled glass furnace.{{verify}}

Moody dwarves will occasionally seize a random workshop and proceed to create their artifact there. Following completion of the artifact, this workshop will often be converted into the type originally desired by the dwarf.{{verify}}

=== Skills ===

If a dwarf manages to successfully complete an artifact, the dwarf's highest trade skill will be elevated to "legendary". More specifically, 20,000 [[experience]] will be added to that skill. This will also give the dwarf several [[attribute]] boosts. ("Possessed" dwarves, however, gain no experience.)

This fact can be utilized to maximize the possibility of getting dwarf with a legendary skill you want: where possible, make sure each dwarf's highest trade skill is one of the kinds you want. Have all your peasants, growers, soldiers (you will have to temporarily deactivate them from the military), and other dwarves without trade skills do a tiny bit of work in the skill(s) you most want (Armorsmith is possibly the most-desired legendary skill); if a "dabbling" trade skill is the highest they have, that is the skill that will be used.

The type of artifact created will also depend on the dwarf's highest trade skill. Masons will always create some kind of [[stone]] object; Bone Carvers, a [[bone]] or [[shell]] object; Carpenters, a [[wood]] object, etc.

For the purposes of strange moods, [[mining]] and [[engraving]] are considered trade skills: moody miners and engravers will usually take over a craftsdwarf's or mason's workshop, turn out a stone craft or piece of furniture, and gain legendary skill as miners or engravers respectively (not as stone crafters or masons). Furnace operators will turn out a metal craft or piece of furniture and become legendary furnace operators. Weavers will take over a [[clothier's shop]] and produce an article of clothing.

Dwarves with no trade skills whatsoever (including [[children]], sometimes) can go into strange moods. Such dwarves generally gain one of the crafting skills (wood crafter, bone carver, etc.).

=== Materials ===

In addition to requiring a specific workshop, dwarves will also demand specific raw [[material]]s in order to complete their artifact. Each artifact will require between one and ten items to complete.{{verify}}

After claiming a workshop, a moody dwarf will set about collecting these materials. If the supplies are not at hand, the dwarf will sit in the workshop until the items become available, or go insane if they do not become available before long.

Jewelers will usually only require one item: a rough [[gem]], which they will fashion into a "perfect" gem. Metalsmiths will usually use [[ore]] (not [[metal bars]]).{{verify}}

Glassmakers will always require at least one piece of raw glass, usually clear. Since they will usually take over your glass furnace, you will either have to build another glass furnace or make sure you have the right types of raw glass ahead of time. The steps involved in glass production are fairly time-consuming: you must first collect sand, which requires an empty [[bag]] and an "Item [[hauling|Haul]]er" who is not busy hauling finished goods, then haul the sand to the furnace and melt it into glass. Clear glass is even more time consuming (the above steps plus: make [[potash]] out of [[wood]], bake it into [[pearlash]] in a [[kiln]], haul it to the furnace). It is therefore recommended you make several pieces of raw glass of each type as early as you can, reserved for use by moody dwarves. Furthermore, any dwarf may require raw glass, not just glassmakers. ''Why is this here? Make a seperate article about glassmaking. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:19, 6 November 2007 (EST)''

The first object grabbed by the dwarf will be the "primary" substance; all other materials will be used to decorate the artifact. If a dwarf grabs onyx and makes a bed, for instance, it will be an "onyx bed". In addition to the primary substance, many other materials will often be used to construct an artifact. An artifact can potentially be composed of bone, cloth, gems, leather, metal, shell, stone, and wood all at once.{{verify}}

==== Demands ====

While a moody dwarf is in a workshop, you can get an idea of what materials he or she wants by pressing {{k|q}} and moving the cursor over the workshop. (If the dwarf is busy fetching objects instead of "waiting" for unavailable materials, you can still see this display by catching the dwarf in the workshop just as he or she is dropping off an object.)

The message will change every few seconds if the dwarf demands several different items. The dwarf will list all the materials he or she demands even if most of them have already been fetched. If a demand lasts longer than about 2 seconds, that means multiple items of that type will be required. Sometimes a dwarf will also mutter an unfamiliar word, such as "Kerging". This word is the name of the artifact he or she intends to create.

Moody dwarves collect their items in a fixed sequence, so if they have already collected at least one item (it will be lying in the workshop, viewable under the {{k|t}} menu), you can see what item in the sequence they will need next to continue.

Things dwarves demand include:

* [[Bones]] - "bones... yes", "pictures of skeletons"
* [[Cloth]] (not thread) - "cloth... thread", "pictures of stacked cloth"
* Cut [[gem]]s - "gems... shining", "gems". ''These must be ordinary cut gems, not "large" gems.''
* [[Leather]] - "leather... skin", "pictures of stacked leather"
* Metal [[ore]] - "ore... particular ore", "picture of an ore mine", "the correct ore"
* Metal [[bar]]s - "shining bars... metal", "shining bars of metal"
* Rough [[gem]]s - "rough... color". ''Sometimes when they request rough gems they are looking for a specific type of raw [[glass]].''
* Raw crystal [[glass]] - "raw... crystal", "rough gems and glass" (I think this is right. I have raw types of both green and clear glass, but not crystal glass)
* Raw clear [[glass]] - "raw... clear", "glass with burning wood"
* [[Shell]] - "a shell"
* [[Stone]] - "stone... rock", "pictures of a quarry", "the right stone"
* Stone [[block]]s - "blocks... bricks", "the proper surface to work on", "square blocks"
* [[Wood]] - "tree... life", "pictures of a forest", "a tree"
* Dwarven bones/[[refuse|remains]] - "things... certain things". ''This demand is only seen during "Macabre" moods.''

Sometimes the required item(s) will be very specific (for instance, rough [[emerald]]s); other times, very general (leather from any type of creature). Sometimes when dwarves are waiting for a specific material, it will be listed in the dwarf's [[thought|thoughts and preferences]]. For instance, a dwarf that "likes platinum" will sometimes use one or more platinum nuggets in the construction of an artifact. This is not always the case, however, and they may want a completely unrelated item.{{verify}}

Once the dwarf has assembled all the materials he or she needs, the game will announce that the dwarf "has begun a mysterious construction!". The artifact should be completed within a day or two.

Dwarves which have created an artifact will hold on to it for a very long time (or the loss of the limb in which it is held{{verify}}) after which one of three events can occur.
* The dwarf can become [[obsessed]] with the item and will keep hold of it until death.{{verify}}
* Become nervous and hide the artifact.{{verify}}
* Become uneasy and drop the artifact wherever he currently stands.{{verify}}

If it is a heavy object (such as a floodgate), it will [[speed|slow]] them substantially unless they have several levels of [[strength]]. This is a bigger problem with a possessed dwarf, as the legendary status resulting from other moods will provide a good [[attributes|attribute]] boost.

=== Failure ===

If you can't provide all the required items within a couple of months, the dwarf will go insane and cancel the artifact. This [[insanity]] can take several forms:

* Become melancholy. The dwarf will either refuse to eat or drink until dead, or drown themselves at some point. They may also hurl themselves into the [[river]], [[chasm]], or [[magma]] immediately.{{verify}}
* Become a babbling wreck. A dwarf experiencing this will drop all the items he or she is wearing, one by one, and eventually starve to death.
* Go on a murderous rampage.

The first two outcomes are harmless (except to the moody dwarf, who will die), but you may want to station a squad nearby or assign a few war dogs to the dwarf on the chance that they will lash out. If you build your workshops inside enclosed rooms (with doors), you can also lock the moody dwarf in the room until he or she starves.

Anything that would cause the dwarf to cancel the strange mood job (like being attacked or having the workshop destroyed) will cause [[insanity]]. Note that the [[insanity]] can happen even when the dwarf is not deadlocked on an item; there have been observed instances where a dwarf goes insane while in the process of carrying a required item back to the commandeered workshop.

== Types of strange moods ==

The first message in the following sections is how the mood is [[announcements|announced]]; the second message appears in the dwarf's profile when he or she is ['''v''']iewed. All dwarves in a strange mood will have "Strange Mood" listed as their active task.

=== Fey ===

* ''Taken by a fey mood!''
* ''Has the aspect of one fey!''

This is the basic strange mood. Fey dwarves will clearly state their demands when the workshop they are in is examined.

=== Secretive ===

* ''Withdraws from society...''
* ''Peculiarly secretive...''

Secretive moods are the same as fey moods, except instead of loudly proclaiming his demands, a secretive dwarf will sketch his or her ideas.

=== Possessed ===

* ''Has been possessed!''
* ''Possessed by unknown forces!''

Possessed dwarves behave the same as fey dwarves, but will not gain any skill once the artifact is complete. Their thoughts are also cryptic, but are harder to understand than dwarves who withdraw from society.

=== Fell ===

* ''Looses a roaring laughter, fell and terrible!''
* ''Has a horrible fell look!''

A dwarf that goes into a fell mood will take over a [[butcher's shop]] or a [[tanner's shop]] instead of one of the craft shops. The dwarf will then ''murder'' the nearest dwarf, drag the corpse into the shop and make some sort of object out of dwarf [[leather]] or [[bone]]. Once the artifact is completed, the fell dwarf will become a legendary Bone Carver or Leatherworker. Strangely, none of the other dwarves seem to mind the murder.

Aside from the potential loss of an important dwarf in the wrong place at the wrong time, there doesn't seem to be any downside to a fell mood. The end result is always an artifact and a legendary craftsdwarf. Since the only ingredient used (a dwarf) is available in abundance, a fell mood will only "fail" if a hermit has a horrible fell look or if the proper workshop does not exist.

=== Macabre ===

* ''Begins to stalk and brood...''
* ''Brooding darkly...''

Like a fell mood, above, but the dwarf will not murder a fellow dwarf. A macabre dwarf may require dwarf bones, skulls, and chunks/remains; if you do not happen to have any, you will have to "make" some, or let the moody dwarf go insane.

Fell and Macabre moods will only happen to dwarves which are [[Thoughts|unhappy]] at the time of entering a mood.

== Multiple Moods ==

Toady stated on [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000567 this] thread in the forum that two moods at once is a bug. Therefore, it is safe to assume that it is usually impossible to get more than one mood at once. Also, on the buglists: 000317 □ [dwarf mode][moods] two mood dwarves at once

== Unresolved questions ==

* ''Does a larger number of dwarves in a fortress increase the chance of strange moods?''
** A fortress with a very small number of dwarves (1-3) can go many years without seeing any strange moods, so it would seem so.
* ''Can the same dwarf go into a strange mood more than once?''
** Presumably, they cannot.
* ''Can an already legendary dwarf go into a strange mood?''
** A Legendary dwarf that hasn't acquired legendary status via creating an artifact ''can'' go into a strange mood.
* ''How many strange moods can occur in a single fortress?''
** "There's a total growing limit based on how many items you've made and how many subterranean squares you've unhidden." --[[Toady One]][[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=002224]]
[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Thoughts]]

User talk:N9103

2007-12-21T04:12:26Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Flames Go Here */

== Test Space ==

Just my testing space.--[[User:N9103|N9103]] 21:16, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Comments/Opinions/Rants Welcome Here ==

== Flames Go Here ==
[[Image:Flames logo.jpg]]
Here you go! ;) --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:12, 20 December 2007 (EST)

40d:Bedroom design

2007-12-19T03:21:32Z

Eagle of Fire: Fixing name problem: this page was listed as Bedroom Design, while Bedroom design was only a redirect... Merging both.

(See also [[Design strategies]])
{{old|0.23.130.23a}}
There are many ways to design the layout of bedrooms. Designs must consider simplicity and ease of designating, efficiency, and aesthetics. The ability to modify the design to enlarge, improve, or add rooms can be important as well. Proximity of the rooms to noise should also be considered.

Many of the designs shown here were taken from [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000432 this forum post].

== Plain square design ==

If it is 2×2, 3×3 or more, square designs are probably the first choice of many players. Easy to plan, easy to put in place, this kind of design is one of the best when the player value his playing time instead of the overall layout of his fortress. While square designs are easy to reproduce en masse, most are not optimized either for beauty or space efficiency, two aspects that other designs excel at.

== Line design ==

Line designs have the advantage of being very space efficient and very adaptative. From 1×1 to 1×4 and longer, it can fit almost anywhere, can be upgraded later on as long as you have the space behind your first original line and do not need excessive corridor space for the bedroom access. Simply dig a few lines out of an access tunnel already in use in your fortress and voila, you have new living quarters. This kind of minimalistic design is perfect for when the economy kicks in, as it can be adapted in a flash for any kind of low wage citizen.

== Communal design ==

The space-conscious fortress designer who wants his dwarves to walk less and work more might decide to cut out the walls altogether, as dwarves do not require privacy (but you can imagine hanging sheets between the bedrooms if you prefer). This design is perhaps the most efficient use of space (without resorting to [[barracks]]-like single tile rooms). It places a large number of five-grid bedrooms in a small space. No bedroom overlaps any other, each has the basic furniture, and there is even room enough for extras. Additional value may be provided with engravings, brassware, decorations, or through catering to the taste of specific dwarves.

[[image:communal.gif]]

== T shaped design ==

T shaped designs, also called triangle designs, are efficient, but are not separated by impassible walls. While this doesn't bother the dwarves, it does somewhat void the aesthetic purpose of having individual walled off rooms. This kind of design usually ends up very ugly once the player begins to smooth the surfaces as this will result as mostly "O"'s for pillar everywhere, a concept hard to grasp for the eye in an already symbol rich ASCII world.

[[image:Tshaped-smooth(Novocain).png]]

[[image:Tshaped-plan(Raynard).png]] [[image:Tshaped-smooth(Raynard).png]]

== Fractal designs ==

Betting on design beauty and on geometrical symmetry first, fractal designs can also be at the same time very space and walk efficient. They however require a lot of time and space both to plan and execute and are most likely out of reach of all but the most serious players. Most players however agree to say that they are the most incredible of all the designs around, if not the for the sheer challenge of successfully executing something as complex, then for the extra touch it give to the whole fortress as a whole once it is done.

[[image:Raynard_square_delight1.png]] [[image:Raynard_square_delight2.png]]

[[image:Raynard_whirlpool_housing.png]]

[[image:Hactar1_3_branch_tree.png]] [[image:Hactar1_Mandelbrot_Tree.png]]

[[Image:SavokisLeaf08a032.png]]

[[image:Andrelius_Windmill_Villas.png]]

[[image:4bh0r53n_h-fractal.jpg]]

{{Buildings}}

40d:Design strategies

2007-12-19T03:15:18Z

Eagle of Fire: /* Bedroom design */

==Fortress defense==

See [[fortress defense]].

==Entrance designs==

===Flooded entrance===

Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two [[lever]]s, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup.
One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever.
Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with water or magma for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

=== 3D map format ===
For more information on how to dig passages and structures in a 3D map, see [[digging]].

==Interior design==
It may seem obvious to experienced players but it should be stated explicitly: for maximal efficiency your dwarves should spend the least amount of time moving about and the most time doing productive things. Fortress interior design is critical to productivity.

===[[Bedroom design]]===
Enterprising players often try to find a design for their living quarter area which is either very space efficient or easy on the eye. This subject haven't been tackled much yet but you can see the different designs most often used by players of older versions (0.23.130.23a and down, see link above). Most of them are still applicable on the newer versions (0.27.169.32a and up) but could possibly be heavily modified to benefit from the new Z-axis stairs placing.

'''THLawrence's Living Pods'''

Apartment Complex:
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╠══╬══╬══╬══╣
║..║..║..║..║
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║
╠═╣X╠═╬═╣X╠═╣
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║
║..║..║..║..║
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝

Lobby:
╔══╦══╦══╦══╗..
║..║..║..║..║..
║.D╩D.║.D╩D.║..
╠═╣X╚═╩═╝X╚═╝..
║.D╗...........
║..║...........
╠══╣.....╔══╗..
║..║.....║..║..
║.D╝.....╚D.║..
╠═╣X╔═╦═╗X╠═╣..
║.D╦D.║.D╦D.║..
║..║..║..║..║..
╚══╩══╩══╩══╝..

This design is compact and allows for a large number of rooms. Each room has 3 tiles and a door. To add the apartment complex build it one level above or below the lobby. The design can be stretched to make the rooms 3x2 or 3x3 depending on your preference. Though not as impressive as the fractal patterns it is very efficient in that it can allow for large numbers of dwarves to easily access the main hallway.

===Workshop Logistics===

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently.

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:

===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============

Level -1:

===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============

=== Alternate Workshop Design ===

One important consideration of workshops includes design to account for moody dwarves. Open workshops might be easy and convenient, but make containment in the case of a berserk dwarf difficult. One such layout that takes this into consideration is as follows:

=========
=WWWXWWW=
=WWW.WWW=
=WWW.WWW=
=.......=
=WWW.WWW=
=WWW.WWW=
=WWW.WWW=
====+====

Key: W: Workshop, X: up/downstaircase, =: wall, +: door.

Stockpiles are placed above and below the room, generally one for raw materials and another for finished materials. Similar workshops can be grouped together for easier checking on, and the door can be locked should a moody dwarf's wishes be unmet.

====Fluid workshop locations====
Alternatively, you can employ a "work site" methodology where workshops are constructed and destroyed as necessary. For example, if you mine out a huge dining hall and it is completely filled with stone, build a masonry shop in the hall to manufacture tables and chairs. This eliminates the need for a stone hauler because your mason only has to travel a few squares to get raw material. In addition it makes furniture hauling more efficient because the tables and chairs are right next to their eventual location. And of course it clears stone out of your dining hall, eliminating the need for a refuse hauler to dump it all.

==Miscellaneous strategies==
===Use for soil layers===
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

Since soil is primarily located near the surface, where a trade depot is often built, it is very useful to dig out large spaces for furniture and finished goods in soil for several reasons. First, it produces no stone, and is thus very fast to dig out. Secondly, having finished goods as close to the trade depot as possible is necessary for efficient trading.

==Dams==

[[Image:dam.jpg]]

In Dwarf Fortress, a dam can be built across a [[river]] or [[brook]]. This has several uses:

*Stop a river from flowing altogether
*Modify a river's path
*Create a pretty lake or functional reservoir
*Create water-based traps

=== Dam construction ===

Constructing a dam (probably) requires the draining of a river so [[walls]] or [[floodgates]] can be built on the river bed. If your map freezes during winter this should be easy.

Once the river has been drained you may have to dig into to river bed to be able to place buildings. It will look a bit like this:
[[Image:Dam2.JPG]]

After you have access to a river bed simply build a series of walls on top of it, blocking the path of the river. When the water comes back it will fill up the gap as far as it must to let the blocked water flow further. If you build your dam up to the level of the river the water will stop at the dam (it will not overflow). Since this defies logic it may be fixed in future releases.

You can create a massive flood if you build a dam out of floodgates and open them all at once.

[[Category:Guides]]