Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Fire snake

2009-10-06T20:50:05Z

DracoG: Wood trap works fine for fire snakes

== Fire snakes and cats ==

My cats seem to ignore the fire snakes. This makes me kind of scared.
Are they just busy doing other things, or are fire snakes cat-immune? [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 13:19, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:Cats ignore fire snakes. Probably because they're too hot to bite, what with being filled with liquid fire and all. -Dkarrde

::Some people declare otherwise. I, personally, am of no help here. Never had areas frequented by cats also frequented by fire snakes.
::It seems that cats are usually busy around fire snakes. Not that they are immune. Vaguely recall dead fire snake. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
:::In my game, at least, they go completely ignored. I have at least thirty cats and constantly find dead vermin of every kind around my booze and food piles, ''except'' fire snakes, which populate the area because my fort is built around a magma pipe. The fire snakes rampage through my stuff unhindered while cats blither about. I've had to employ dedicated trappers to try to limit the barrel/bin destruction. -Dkarrde
::::I lost an entire fortress to a fire snake. Bugger set one of my cats on fire, who still had the fire snake remains in his mouth when he finally died. -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

== moved from Liquid Fire discussion page ==

Okay, well I've just seen some fire snakes on the map, so I'll give a whirl at trying to catch them and extract some Liquid Fire from them, but if anybody has any info on this process already, this page is conspicuously absent. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:00, 4 November 2008 (EST)
: It worked for me - build an [[animal trap]], leave in animal/cage stockpile, assign "Capture animal" as a task in the [[Kennels]] menu, and dwarves with Trapping enabled should set to work. Either that or build the trap on the edge of the magma vent and bait it with meat. With a [[fire snake]] trapped, set task "Extract from a small dead animal" in the [[Butcher]]y menu. I think you need a vial or [[flask]] available to catch the squeezed snake drippings. We can still only speculate whether Liquid Fire is a potent venom for dipping arrowheads, or suitable for mixing into cocktails, because it's only a trade good for now. Also, I think [[vermin]]ious fire snakes were finding ways to burn their way out of wooden cages, and burning sandbags(!) leaving piles of sand. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 13:01, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: One of my kittens mysteriously caught on fire, so I'm assuming fire snakes can burn things. I've built an iron trap and am placing it next to the only path from the magma into my fortress. If fire snakes can set things on fire, that should go in the wiki somewhere. Any suggestions as to where? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::OMG! [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NEDM NEDM]! Dwarf Fortress just blows my mind sometimes.

:::Looking at the raws again, fire snakes have a FIXED_TEMP of 14000. According to [[temperature scale]], this means they have a body temperature of 4000 degrees Fahrenheit. That's actually higher even than bauxite's melting temperature. I am suddenly ''damn'' glad I didn't put my booze stockpile right next to the magma pipe. Though the explosion would have been awesome. Confusing, but awesome.

:::I do have an ore stockpile there, and I've seen fire snakes darting around it. I guess it takes a while before the heat transfer causes melting, 'cause I've never seen melted ore there. Yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:01, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:::Oh, and they are also the only creatures with [IMMOLATE]. The fun never stops.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:12, 6 November 2008 (EST)

I think it would be a fantastic inclusion if liquid fire could be loaded a unit at a time into traps that exploded and caught victims on fire when triggered. --[[User:SquidDNA|SquidDNA]] 14:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Value of Liquid Fire==
My extraction seems always to produce 5 units at 100☼ each per snake/vial, for a value of 500, not 1000. Can anyone else explain the 1000 price? Older version, maybe? The only way I get 1000 is if you include a vial worth 500. --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 06:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

==Extraction==
After being extracted, my liquid fire seems to stay in the vials and never gets transferred into barrels (for storage in an appropriate food stockpile). Do I need suitably fireproof barrels, or is the storage of extracts within barrels something that only other civilizations are capable of doing (similar to milking large animals)? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)q
:It's not meant to be stored in barrels. It will stay in vials, which can be placed in bins.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 09:06, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
::Then why do food stockpiles accept liquid fire? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

==Animal Traps==

I built an animal trap in the hallway leading to the magma, and it caught a fire snake without any bait in it. I don't know if this is a common enough occurrence to merit mentioning in the article itself. -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
:I just had something rather surprising happen - I ordered my trapper to "catch live land animal", so he grabbed my artifact clear glass animal trap and spotted a fire snake. Once he caught it, I got a yellow message "live fire snake has burned its way out of confinement!" and he dropped the animal trap (with the fire snake slithering away). I've caught hundreds of fire snakes in baited gem/bone/shell animal traps and had to recapture one using this method once, though I've never had this happen before... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
::Shortly afterwards, he managed to successfully catch the same fire snake in an exceptional bronze animal trap. All subsequent attempts to catch additional fire snakes in the glass trap have failed - seems it doesn't consider glass to be sufficiently fireproof. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Using wood traps seems to be fine for the moment. It may just be glass that is an issue. Captured a fire snake through the kennel using a Maple animal trap.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 20:50, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Grudge

2009-09-29T19:31:39Z

DracoG: /* Death of Grudge: Negative thought */

I went ahead and added what I knew to this page.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure I know how grudges are formed now, if a dwarf is part of an organization and dislikes a different organization, and comes into contact with said Org. then they form a grudge.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
::So what organizations would that be for example? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Alright, let me write down an example.

"Urist McArmokWorshipper belongs to the society of the plump helmets. He disliskes those in the sweetpod society. He comes across a dwarf in that society in the meeting area and begins to chat. They are now enemies. Now, whenever they chat, both of them get bad thoughts."

Sorry for my spelling errors, I just woke up.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 15:00, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:I have lots of grudges but no societies. So that can be only part of the truth. In my fortresses it looks more like being on opposing sides of a scale triggers it, like "constantly active" vrs. "lives life at a leisurely pace" "modest" vrs. "immodest", tradition loving vrs. hating it --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
::Alright so there are alot of factors, all we need to do now is find them all! I'm going to get a picture of a society for you real quick.
Edit; [[File:Citizen.jpg]]--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 15:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

:::That's not a "society". The latter name mentioned is the name of your settlement, and the former is the name of the dwarf's original civ. I've never heard of dwarfs disliking other dwarf civs - the closest I've seen to something along those lines is when a dwarf (or any other civver) becomes an enemy of a civ after killing enough of their citizens, but that's got nothing to do with the thought of individual dwarfs. --[[User:3|3]] 19:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== Death of Grudge: Negative thought ==

I can't say this is definitive proof; ethics and personalities may still play a large part.

However, as I was conducting quick testing on some mod/reaction changes I was consistently embark/abandoning. One such embark landed straight in the middle of a open magma pipe. One of the starting seven was killed off by a Fire Imp.

Relationships broke down like this:
-Deceased Kobold
-Friend 1/Miner
-Friend 2/Fish Cleaner
-Long-Term 3/Trader
-Long-Term 4/Woodcutter
-Long-Term 5/Swordbold
-Grudge 6/Carpenter

Friend 1/Miner and 2/Fish Cleaner were struck with "has lost a friend to tragedy recently", bringing them down to 60~ happiness.

Long-Term 3/Trader, 4/Woodcutter, 5/Swordbold had no negative or positive reactions at all and remained "quite content", 100~ happiness.

Grudge 6/Carpenter became unhappy due to "lost an annoying acquaintance to tragedy recently", 50~ happiness. The worst reaction of the group.

'''edit:''' Friend 1/Miner and 2/Fish Cleaner took a second negative thought "forced to endure the decay of a friend". Grudge 6/Carpenter had no such thought, positive or negative.

These were extrapolated using Dwarf Therapist and Dwarf Companion to verify.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 19:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Grudge

2009-09-29T19:27:29Z

DracoG: /* Death of Grudge: Negative thought */ new section

I went ahead and added what I knew to this page.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure I know how grudges are formed now, if a dwarf is part of an organization and dislikes a different organization, and comes into contact with said Org. then they form a grudge.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
::So what organizations would that be for example? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Alright, let me write down an example.

"Urist McArmokWorshipper belongs to the society of the plump helmets. He disliskes those in the sweetpod society. He comes across a dwarf in that society in the meeting area and begins to chat. They are now enemies. Now, whenever they chat, both of them get bad thoughts."

Sorry for my spelling errors, I just woke up.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 15:00, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

:I have lots of grudges but no societies. So that can be only part of the truth. In my fortresses it looks more like being on opposing sides of a scale triggers it, like "constantly active" vrs. "lives life at a leisurely pace" "modest" vrs. "immodest", tradition loving vrs. hating it --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
::Alright so there are alot of factors, all we need to do now is find them all! I'm going to get a picture of a society for you real quick.
Edit; [[File:Citizen.jpg]]--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 15:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

:::That's not a "society". The latter name mentioned is the name of your settlement, and the former is the name of the dwarf's original civ. I've never heard of dwarfs disliking other dwarf civs - the closest I've seen to something along those lines is when a dwarf (or any other civver) becomes an enemy of a civ after killing enough of their citizens, but that's got nothing to do with the thought of individual dwarfs. --[[User:3|3]] 19:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== Death of Grudge: Negative thought ==

I can't say this is definitive proof; ethics and personalities may still play a large part.

However, as I was conducting quick testing on some mod/reaction changes I was consistently embark/abandoning. One such embark landed straight in the middle of a open magma pipe. One of the starting seven was killed off by a Fire Imp.

Relationships broke down like this:
-Deceased Kobold
-Friend 1/Miner
-Friend 2/Fish Cleaner
-Long-Term 3/Trader
-Long-Term 4/Woodcutter
-Long-Term 5/Swordbold
-Grudge 6/Carpenter

Friend 1/Miner and 2/Fish Cleaner were struck with "has lost a friend to tragedy recently", bringing them down to 60~ happiness.

Long-Term 3/Trader, 4/Woodcutter, 5/Swordbold had no negative or positive reactions at all and remained "quite content", 100~ happiness.

Grudge 6/Carpenter became unhappy due to "lost an annoying acquaintance to tragedy recently", 50~ happiness. The worst reaction of the group.

These were extrapolated using Dwarf Therapist and Dwarf Companion to verify.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 19:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Noise

2009-07-17T19:36:10Z

DracoG: /* Other sources of noise */

== Other sources of noise ==
Any information on whether fighting causes noise? [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 02:22, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Does anyone know if dwarves just walking about causes noise? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:31, 5 March 2008 (EST)

:I can't say for certain now, but I am certain that they did not in the old version. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:50, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Do machines make noise? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:06, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

How about things like doors opening and floodgates being activated? Kinda falls under "machines" but eh. --[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 00:01, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

Does Smoothing Stone or Engraving Stone cause noise? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]]

I observed a dwarf being woken up when a square next to him was mined out. corecting entry. --[[User:mrdudeguy|mrdudeguy]]

Pumping and farming? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 18:34, 8 July 2009 (CEST)
:Neither of these cause noise. I usually stick Screw Pumps in the barracks to train my military. In fledging stages, my farms are quite close to beds and never had an issue.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 19:36, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Diagonal Z-Noise ==
How does the Z-direction work with noise in terms of diagonals? If my bedrooms are two layers down, can they be closer than they would be if they were one layer down? Or is noise effectively a cylinder where the nearby squares aren't feasible even when down 3 layers?

I'm not sure how old this comment is, but this is actually brings up a good question. Has anyone actually verified that noise still radiates in a diamond pattern? Rooms used to "radiate" in diamond patterns, but they now expand like a square. Could noise have been modified similarly? If noise does move diagonally, a workshop would produce a noise cube with dimensions 9x9x9. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 23:29, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

On second thought it would probably look like a pyramid with square cross-sections and a base that was 9x9, which seems to be what the article suggests. I'll have to try and find some room to verify this behavior in my current fortress. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 23:37, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

:I tested this by stopping all mining, catapults, training, etc, and every workshop except one. I placed beds in places I wanted to check for noise. Here's a list of my results in (X, Y, Z) co-ordinate pairs. Assume the workshop's center tile is the origin (0, 0, 0). Positive X is east, negative Y is south, and negative Z is down.

:* (+5, 0, 0) = No
:* (+4, -4, 0) = Yes
:* (+5, -4, 0) = No
:* (0, 0, -4) = Yes
:* (+1, 0, -4) = Yes
:* (+4, -4, -4) = Yes
:* (+5, -4, -4) = No

:Dwarves get a thought about where they're sleeping when they crash (slept without a proper room, in a good bedroom, etc), but they don't get a thought for noise until they wake up. I assume this is because there are three tiers to the noise thought: uneasily, very uneasily, and was woken up by. I'd hazard a guess as jobs happen, applicable nearby sleeping dwarves will "accumulate" noise until they wake up. If they pass a certain threshold, they wake up prematurely and get the most severe negative thought. Otherwise, they get "uneasily" or "very uneasily" when the wake normally, based on how much noise they accumulated. Perhaps noise has both a loudness (how much it increases the dwarf's counter) and a range, or maybe longer range noises increase the counter more, or maybe all noise is the same loudness and it's just a matter of the number of noise events a dwarf hears while sleeping. It seems reasonable to me, but I've no way to test it. Not sure if any of this additional information belongs in the main article or not. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 22:26, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

::My guess is that noise doesn't accumulate. I suspect that the reason the thought appears when they wake up is in case they hear a noise that's louder than the one they already heard. Otherwise you could insulate your dwarves from loud noises by making small noises. (not that this would be practical) [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:38, 19 December 2008 (EST)

== distances ==

gee, no wonder my dwarves are all upset by noise - 16 squares from anywhere a chair is being moved in is a long way! Here I was being worried about how close the masons' workshop is, when my problem all along was I keep building doors, beds and things just next door.

I think that is broken personally - building furniture should be treated way differently to building a workshop! Building a workshop I can understand being heard easily for 16 squares, but destroying/building a chair, table or bed should be pretty much cut out at 4 squares.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:55, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Accurate for the latest version? ==

I built a hatch cover right next to a sleeping dwarf and he wasn't woken up. D'ya think some of this might have been changed? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 23:36, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:Dwarves being outright awoken due to noise is a pretty severe case - just building a hatch cover wouldn't do it. Check the dwarf when he wakes up and see if he got the sleeping uneasily thought. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 02:13, 20 December 2008 (EST)
::No, I don't think he did. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 21:23, 22 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Leatherworker

2009-06-15T23:37:25Z

DracoG: Training tips

So any tips on how to train this guy up faster? - seems to be learning really slow --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 16:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
:I've found making backpacks and quivers for your military works well. The quality has no effect, so it's good for training. Waterskins could work as well, but they're usefulness is very limited since they don't contain alcohol. After that, I make bags. Again, quality isn't a huge importance for holding sand or seeds. Should put your main leatherworker up a few levels, depending on skill rank. Sewing can be useful, if you don't mind having images on almost everything in your fortress.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 23:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dog

2009-06-09T20:54:30Z

DracoG: /* War Dog Burials, possible? */ new section

==War dog==
is it me or can only male dogs become war dogs? i got a bitch that isnt recognized as trainable to war dog status... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:25, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Not at all. She's probably someone's pet already. Pet's can't be trained. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 13:42 27 November 2007 (CST)

Is it just for me, or are war dogs completely useless other than cannon fodder when restrained? When I assign them to dwarves they seem somewhat useful as they swarm the enemy. However, when I chain a line of 4-6 dogs at a choke point, 3+ goblins just plow through them unscathed and it seems like the dogs are trying to run from them rather than attack. [[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]]
:Chained war dogs are very useful to deter theify kobolds and snatchy goblins. These units ignore traps and stealth everywhere, but dogs chained near the fort entrance will eat them immediately.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hunting dogs ==

I was wondering what are the advantages of hunting dogs as opposed to war dogs. As far as i can tell the only one is that theyre weaker. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 17:53, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:"It sounds like Hunting dogs behave as if 'harass animals' was set to 'yes.'" --[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]], from the old wiki. Also, see [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000334 this thread], in which Toady says what exactly hunting and war dogs do in the 2D version.
:In short, war dogs do double damage and hunting dogs are useless. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:31, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
::Useless? Doesn't the increased detection range count for anything, like guard duty? ( Ironic that war dogs spot enemies slower... )--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:45, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
::: From the words in the current wiki and elsewhere, it sounds like hunting dogs only work when they're assigned to someone. It may be even more strict and require the person to whom they're equipped be "hunting," but I can't confirm this. Would a hunting dog be able to see someone who is hidden from a distance, such as ambushers? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 18:11, 16 March 2009 (EST)

== Annoying problem with training dogs ==

I have tons of puppies, set to "Unavaliable", yet I never get any non-pet dogs to train. Is there any way to disable pets? This is getting ridiculous now. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:46, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:unavailable means you can change it to available or ready for slaughter using b for butcher
: only mature dogs can be trained

::Only mature dogs, that are not in a setup cage(it can be in a stockpile though), can be trained. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:02, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== The Life of a dog ==

A dog amazingly took down a troll by itself and now is dying from injuries. They don't heal right? Oh yeah it was a war dog.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 06:14, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

(note, I have deleted two unsigned and very unhelpful comments here)
Dogs with a caretaker will heal. Assign the dog to a dwarf (any dwarf will do), and turn on the Animal Care labor on that dwarf. After that, dogs will heal any wound that dwarves can.

I had a puppy that was wounded in a cave-in once: 2 mangled legs, 1 broken paw, moderate (brown) lower spinal chord injury. When it grew to a dog, I trained it as a War Dog and assigned it to my Captain of the Guard. 2 seasons later, the dog was fully healed except for the lower spinal chord injury, which didn't seem to slow it down at all. It went on to kill 4 goblins before I got bored of the game and abandoned the fort. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

== Puppies ==

Do puppies provide the same items if slaughtered as full grown dogs? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:MrMustard|MrMustard]]
:As of currently, yes. They will provide bones, meat, fat, skin, and chunks just like dogs. (I know you meant quantity. People are speculating that the numbers are 2/3 the full-grown animal except for fat.) --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:11, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I dunno about dogs, but kittens provide 2 meat and 2 bone, instead of 3 each for cats. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:53, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Hunting dogs flow==

I can verify that unassigned hunting dogs follow the trainer just like war dogs. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:09, 25 January 2009 (EST)

==Impotent war dogs==
It seems to me that trained war dogs do not make puppies, regardless if they are assigned or not. Can anyone confirm/deny? --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 08:30, 8 February 2009 (EST)
: I can deny that. [[image:WarDogPuppies.JPG]] [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:52, 8 February 2009 (EST)
::What if all of your dogs are war dogs? Do male wardogs "mate" at all?
:::I'm fairly certain they can, I train all of my dogs to wardog status as soon as the mature. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:25, 16 February 2009 (EST)

Can anyone confirm/deny about a dog or animal limit? It seems I'm not getting any more puppies.... I have about 56 dogs and a total of 101 animals. At first I thought it was because I'd split up my war dogs among warriors, but putting stray war dogs in a single cage did not change the situation. Any info on this? [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 19:27, 26 February 2009 (EST)
:Considering that I've spent the last two in-game years culling my animal population down from over 300, I'm pretty sure there's no limit on animals in general. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 02:09, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::The explanation I recall is that there is an animal limit on births and migrations, but these don't apply to pets (who can continue having children indefinitely). I can't actually verify that, however. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:15, 27 February 2009 (EST)
:::I've noticed the same thing that [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] noted above. I also know that war dogs normally reproduce as shown above. None of my many (>50) dogs have had puppies in the last 3-4 game years. I thought of the animal limit as well (I had near 200) so I [[butcher|took care of it]]. Still no new dogs. Another strange thing is I've caught lots of my own cats in traps. I've never seen that before. I cannot assign the caught cat (like normally possible for caged animals), either. If I do build the cage and release it, it gets caught again (lucky) or squished (rock trap). Any thoughts?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 08:37, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::::I wonder if that's related to something I'm seeing in my current fort. I've been breeding [[Cave crocodile|Cave Crocodiles]] out of a pair that I caught in my underground river, but lately a few of them have started being treated as only "half-tame", so to speak. They don't attack or scare dwarves, they are chained and caged exactly as normal, and they breed perfectly normally. However, I have to go to the {{k|z}} menu to butcher them, they get stuffed in a spare cage when unchained, and they show up as red on the overview map. One even started knocking over statues for no reason. I figured it was something about them being tamed "dangerous" animals, but it might be related to what you mention. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)
:There is no limit to how many of an animal you can have, but if you get to 50 then they will stop becoming pregnant. Any already pregnant will eventually still give birth, pushing you over 50. I don't know if this limit applies to pets or not, but I know it applies to unassigned non-pet animals because I always embark with 49 dogs. (I fill my moats with war dogs, not water or magma.) [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:46, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::That must be it. I have been able to buy them. Any idea on the cats issue?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:36, 27 February 2009 (EST)

::This would fit with what I've witnessed then. Although I personally prefer leaving my moats empty with a path back to the outer edge of my defenses...if you still want in after falling in the moat, you get to go the long way. While being filled with bolts =) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)

== War Dog Burials, possible? ==

Just curious if any other players have been able to bury war dogs. Never used hunting dogs, so unsure about that. War Dogs are considered "pets" to some degree, but yet they don't seem to be buried in any caskets despite being "open" for pets.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 20:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Giant cave swallow

2009-05-04T04:06:12Z

DracoG: /* Z-Level issue */

I've had a giant cave swallow kill one of my haulers recently, so what exactly does "this creature won't attack unless threatened" mean? Does it already feel threatened when a dwarf comes too close?

There was no military dwarf anywhere close, and I have no hunters. So the giant cave swallow must have attacked first. -Unsigned by [[User:Syndic|Syndic]]

:It means somebody spotted their [BENIGN] tag and assumed it was peaceful/neutral/cowardly when it is quite certainly aggro/aggressive/hostile.

:Sorry for any dwarves who might've gotten their eyes removed by the little flying, feathered jerks. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:34, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Z-Level issue ==

Not sure if anyone has noticed or if this was an isolated situation but I had a Giant Cave Swallow attack and kill a Donkey. In retaliation, I sent a Woodcutter and two squads of two Wrestlers after it. After engaging, only one Dwarf would be attacking, despite the Giant Cave Swallow being on the same Z-Level. I attributed it to some sort of flight mechanic (allowing the Swallow to engage its own targets rather than being bumrushed). However, despite being stunned and unconscious at some points; it was only truly engaged by one Dwarf at a time. I had even assigned two war dogs to the Woodcutter (whom was slaughtered) and they wouldn't engage it either.

I haven't had much experience with flying creatures so I'm not sure if this is a regular occurrence or some form of bug (or feature, re: [[Fun]]). Any others mind verifying this one way or another? Perhaps updating flying creatures (if attributable to Flying and not just Giant Cave Swallows) pages with warnings.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 04:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

File:Saltwaterwell.PNG

2009-05-03T00:40:51Z

DracoG: Wells currently act as freshwater sources in Saltwater embark sites; even if used over a failed cistern full of saltwater.

Wells currently act as freshwater sources in Saltwater embark sites; even if used over a failed cistern full of saltwater.

40d Talk:Water

2009-05-03T00:38:12Z

DracoG: /* Salt Water and mud */

I dug into a Murky pool, all 7's, drained out 8 squares of 7's into my reservoir to irrigate my farm, then closed the floodgate up. The murky pool was mixed 6's and 7's. After winter, it froze over, and in Spring melted back into all 7's again. Apparently they can refill themselves. It did snow on top of the pool. Perhaps the snow melted and got it wet? --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 20:36, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, if there's any water in the pool then they will freeze into ice walls. When the ice wall melts, it will always melt to depth 7, irrespective of how much water the ice was originally formed from. It is unaffected by snowfall, so if your murky pool ever completely dries out, it will never refill, even if you get lots of rain or snow. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

Do fish really flop around after you drain a pool? This didn't happen for me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:08, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know what the water output of a brook is? As in, does it fill a 1-width channel any faster or slower than a river?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Has anyone else seen stagnant water spontaneously appear beside a still? I had it happen twice, I swear that the still is leaking. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 02:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Likely, a dwarf for some reason dumped out a bucket or waterskin nearby. It tends to happen when you get job cancellations while filling a well or taking water to a prisoner or injured dwarf.--[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 06:58, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Evaporation ==

I notice that evaporation isn't covered here or in [[Magma]], and I think it might be a useful topic. My observation is that depth 1 fluids can evaporate if left alone. This means that you can get rid of arbitrary amounts of fluid simply by spreading it out enough, or by using a multiple-floodgate lock system to meter measured quantities of fluid out over a chamber floor. In my experience, evaporated water leaves behind mud, whereas evaporated magma leaves behind nothing. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Magma... evaporates? Could be true – this is DF, after all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

While your at it you can create that soap fortress page.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bend bugs ==

Should we add a section about the u-bend bug?

I've just managed to make a V-bend that can absorb infinite water as well as the U-bend that creates it. Basically I used ramps to create a dip in a pipe trying to make a u-bend, and when I poured a full murky pool into it I ended up with only the bottom three squares full of water. I then got a real u-bend going from another pond and as much as it poured into a pool the v-bend absorbed it all.

Can anyone reproduce? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] ([[User talk:Ikkonoishi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ikkonoishi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

The u-bend is notorious, but never heard or ran into a "v-bend" before.
A (side) diagram of your v-bend would be helpful in reproducing.
As for pages, I'd say no, since they shouldn't end up being around a long time, but who knows. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:13, 1 February 2008 (EST)
: I was going to do one but couldn't figure out how to make the ramps. I'll just use \.

Water went in. --> ~.~########
~.~.~### <--- No water out
####\~# /##
#####\~/###
###########

Even when I brought infinite water from a normal u-bend two levels above it it would not flow through to fill the pond again until I capped the holes. Using periods to break up the ~ so I don't have to use nowiki tags. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:58, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The map http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-3138-emptypool --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Stagnant Water ==

What marks water as stagnant? I know bucket water dumped on the ground is sometimes stagnant, but it's not defined here and I'm not sure what does it.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:30, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Ice that melts becomes stagnant water. So if you mine out ice in an underground area, it will immediately melt into stagnant water. [[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 13:56, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

::But I've had water in a bucket turn Stagnant. What is your responce Poindexter?! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:32, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== Map limits ==

Does water fall off the edge of the map ? Is it possible to actually make it flow out the map like rivers do ? Is it possible underground, several z-levels below he surface ? --[[User:Cptnemo01|Cptnemo01]] 03:51, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

: I would think so, but bear in mind that you can not construct or dig near the edge of the map, making it impossible to channel out water (however, you could make a big surface delta). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:07, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Water doesn't technically flow off the edge of the map, i dropped a few zombies into a brook and they floated downstream, the result was about 20 zombies stuck at the bottom of the map and a whole load of miasma.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== underground water manipulation ==

I am utterly lost when it comes to making underground channels/resovuoirs/wells or any other aquatic contraption beneath the earth. I've looked through both the wiki and the bay12 forums and all I've found are specialized articles for people who already know the basics. so can someone point me in the right direction? or even make a faq, if you're bored? I'd appreciate it.
--[[User:Splendiferous|Splendiferous]] 04:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps you have something a little more specific? Asking for all three is rather big and vague. --[[User:Borninshadow|borninshadow]] 22:32, 19 August 2008 (GMT -8)

== Finding Water ==

If there is no water visible on the map, how can I track it down? There's a small glacier away from my mountain, but I don't see an easy way to melt it. Other than that, nothing shows up on the map underground. --[[User:Aegeus | Aegeus]] (21:09, 20 September 2008)

: I'll take a guess and say [[exploratory mining]] is the only way to go. Only one that I know of at least. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 23:19, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Wrong Information on Page? ==

The salt water section states:

"If a site contains saltwater (there will be a warning before embarkation), then all the naturally occurring water in that site will be salt water; including ponds, rivers and aquifers."

However, I have made wells from aquifers before on a map that was 1/4 tropical ocean and my dwarves drank from it. I think this information might be wrong. (Edit: I did not use a pump at all. I just channeled out above an aquifer and let the area below fill up, and then created wells over top of it). – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:According to a [[Talk:Well#Salt_Water|comment]] on the [[well]] [[Talk:Well|talk page]], it may in fact be the well that somehow manages to desalinate the water! Check to see if a zone drawn over the aquifier can be marked as a water source. If not, then this is most certainly a feature of wells which should be noted! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Salt Water and mud ==
I've discovered that desalinated water will become salt water once again if used on muddy constructed floors.

I constructed a cistern/aqueduct with no natural tiles exposed; however, in my temporary ignorance I had forgotten pumps attempt to fill to the same z-level. Resulted in a large flood; luckily I was using lakes/ponds and not a brook or river.

After waiting for 3 seasons for the single bits of 1/7 water to evaporate (already pumped it back out, couldn't pump it all out) leaving the entire construction muddy. I figured it would be a good time to test something else.
#Does mud influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? '''Yes'''.
#Does rain influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? Unsure.
After answering the first, I'm going to confirm the well desalination issue next. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Talk:Well#Salt_Water]]--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 10:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

:After finally getting my cloth industry going to make rope, a well ''DOES'' act as a freshwater source. It doesn't change the water source underneath (it might if well uses 1x1 water?) to freshwater, so I'm not sure if this is intentional or a bug. Looked over the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug list] and didn't notice anything other than "# 001026 □ [dwarf mode][buildings] (Report) well buckets do not use low water in a square even if there is more water below".

:Verifying this is easy enough; build a well then mark a zone (before and after well completion) and "Water Source (0)" will remain the same. Also, even with Standing Orders of "Zone-Only Drinking", dwarves will still use the well for drinking/pond/etc purposes regardless if it is marked with a zone.

:I made sure to take a quick screenshot, if needed.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 00:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Jesus Brooks ==

I think that humanoids shouldn't be allowed to walk over brooks, this was underlined to me when i saw the fisherdwarf asleep on the open space above the brook. {{unsigned|Warlordzephyr}}

:First off, sign your comments please. Secondly, and I don't mean to sound like an annoying Wiki bureaucrat, opinions about how something should or shouldn't be don't really belong on the talk page; you'd get a better response over at the Bay 12 forums. Nonetheless, I will address your point.
:The way brooks are now is just a simple way to represent shallow running water that shouldn't block movement. A more realistic rendering would be to make the brook a small depression with ramps on both sides, and the bottom filled with depth 2 water, but for now, this is what we've got. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 22:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Water

2009-05-02T10:38:53Z

DracoG: /* Salt Water and mud */ new section

I dug into a Murky pool, all 7's, drained out 8 squares of 7's into my reservoir to irrigate my farm, then closed the floodgate up. The murky pool was mixed 6's and 7's. After winter, it froze over, and in Spring melted back into all 7's again. Apparently they can refill themselves. It did snow on top of the pool. Perhaps the snow melted and got it wet? --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 20:36, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, if there's any water in the pool then they will freeze into ice walls. When the ice wall melts, it will always melt to depth 7, irrespective of how much water the ice was originally formed from. It is unaffected by snowfall, so if your murky pool ever completely dries out, it will never refill, even if you get lots of rain or snow. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

Do fish really flop around after you drain a pool? This didn't happen for me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:08, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know what the water output of a brook is? As in, does it fill a 1-width channel any faster or slower than a river?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Has anyone else seen stagnant water spontaneously appear beside a still? I had it happen twice, I swear that the still is leaking. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 02:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Likely, a dwarf for some reason dumped out a bucket or waterskin nearby. It tends to happen when you get job cancellations while filling a well or taking water to a prisoner or injured dwarf.--[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 06:58, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Evaporation ==

I notice that evaporation isn't covered here or in [[Magma]], and I think it might be a useful topic. My observation is that depth 1 fluids can evaporate if left alone. This means that you can get rid of arbitrary amounts of fluid simply by spreading it out enough, or by using a multiple-floodgate lock system to meter measured quantities of fluid out over a chamber floor. In my experience, evaporated water leaves behind mud, whereas evaporated magma leaves behind nothing. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Magma... evaporates? Could be true – this is DF, after all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bend bugs ==

Should we add a section about the u-bend bug?

I've just managed to make a V-bend that can absorb infinite water as well as the U-bend that creates it. Basically I used ramps to create a dip in a pipe trying to make a u-bend, and when I poured a full murky pool into it I ended up with only the bottom three squares full of water. I then got a real u-bend going from another pond and as much as it poured into a pool the v-bend absorbed it all.

Can anyone reproduce? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] ([[User talk:Ikkonoishi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ikkonoishi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

The u-bend is notorious, but never heard or ran into a "v-bend" before.
A (side) diagram of your v-bend would be helpful in reproducing.
As for pages, I'd say no, since they shouldn't end up being around a long time, but who knows. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:13, 1 February 2008 (EST)
: I was going to do one but couldn't figure out how to make the ramps. I'll just use \.

Water went in. --> ~.~########
~.~.~### <--- No water out
####\~# /##
#####\~/###
###########

Even when I brought infinite water from a normal u-bend two levels above it it would not flow through to fill the pond again until I capped the holes. Using periods to break up the ~ so I don't have to use nowiki tags. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:58, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The map http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-3138-emptypool --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Stagnant Water ==

What marks water as stagnant? I know bucket water dumped on the ground is sometimes stagnant, but it's not defined here and I'm not sure what does it.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:30, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Ice that melts becomes stagnant water. So if you mine out ice in an underground area, it will immediately melt into stagnant water. [[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 13:56, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

::But I've had water in a bucket turn Stagnant. What is your responce Poindexter?! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:32, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== Map limits ==

Does water fall off the edge of the map ? Is it possible to actually make it flow out the map like rivers do ? Is it possible underground, several z-levels below he surface ? --[[User:Cptnemo01|Cptnemo01]] 03:51, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

: I would think so, but bear in mind that you can not construct or dig near the edge of the map, making it impossible to channel out water (however, you could make a big surface delta). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:07, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

== underground water manipulation ==

I am utterly lost when it comes to making underground channels/resovuoirs/wells or any other aquatic contraption beneath the earth. I've looked through both the wiki and the bay12 forums and all I've found are specialized articles for people who already know the basics. so can someone point me in the right direction? or even make a faq, if you're bored? I'd appreciate it.
--[[User:Splendiferous|Splendiferous]] 04:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps you have something a little more specific? Asking for all three is rather big and vague. --[[User:Borninshadow|borninshadow]] 22:32, 19 August 2008 (GMT -8)

== Finding Water ==

If there is no water visible on the map, how can I track it down? There's a small glacier away from my mountain, but I don't see an easy way to melt it. Other than that, nothing shows up on the map underground. --[[User:Aegeus | Aegeus]] (21:09, 20 September 2008)

: I'll take a guess and say [[exploratory mining]] is the only way to go. Only one that I know of at least. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 23:19, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Wrong Information on Page? ==

The salt water section states:

"If a site contains saltwater (there will be a warning before embarkation), then all the naturally occurring water in that site will be salt water; including ponds, rivers and aquifers."

However, I have made wells from aquifers before on a map that was 1/4 tropical ocean and my dwarves drank from it. I think this information might be wrong. (Edit: I did not use a pump at all. I just channeled out above an aquifer and let the area below fill up, and then created wells over top of it). – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:According to a [[Talk:Well#Salt_Water|comment]] on the [[well]] [[Talk:Well|talk page]], it may in fact be the well that somehow manages to desalinate the water! Check to see if a zone drawn over the aquifier can be marked as a water source. If not, then this is most certainly a feature of wells which should be noted! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Salt Water and mud ==

I've discovered that desalinated water will become salt water once again if used on muddy constructed floors.

I constructed a cistern/aqueduct with no natural tiles exposed; however, in my temporary ignorance I had forgotten pumps attempt to fill to the same z-level. Resulted in a large flood; luckily I was using lakes/ponds and not a brook or river.

After waiting for 3 seasons for the single bits of 1/7 water to evaporate (already pumped it back out, couldn't pump it all out) leaving the entire construction muddy. I figured it would be a good time to test something else.

#Does mud influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? Yes.
#Does rain influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? Unsure.

After answering the first, I'm going to confirm the well desalination issue next. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Talk:Well#Salt_Water]]--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 10:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Giant cave swallow

2009-05-02T02:28:11Z

DracoG: /* Z-Level issue */ new section

40d Talk:Chunk

2009-05-02T02:19:08Z

DracoG: /* Usage */ new section

Is this true? I thought they could be cooked. [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 01:50, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Chunks are worthless.[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:19, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::This page violates rule P. Suggest putting the content on [[Chunk]] instead.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 20:29, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:::Use : when answering other comments, helps readability quite a lot. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:31, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::: Rule p violation resolved.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:27, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:Moved talk page to chunk as well. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]
::I apologize for all the history changes I forgot to hit preview [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]

Chunks are produced by unskilled butchers instead of some of the expected meat? [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]
:No, chunks are produced, along with meat, by any butcher or slaughter task, regardless of skill. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:51, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:: well, more skilled ''Axedwarves'' '''do''' produce more chunks *hehehe* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:15, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Where do chunks come under the refuse ordering? Obviously I have missed it as they never get hauled. --[[User:Gorfob|Gorfob]]

:Probably under 'other' (o-r-k), but they should be hauled with either setting if you have designated a dump area ('i') ; either to the dump or the refuse pile. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:15, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

make tame animals eat them tbh.... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:32, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

== Usage ==

Depending on the type of chunk, it may actually decay into bones; possibly skull. I noticed a Ratman leg chunk (not sure on specifics, just recall "Leg") near beginning of embarkation with my Woodcutter. The corpse decayed into bones (did not check amount specifically) and skull while the leg chunk decayed into a bone (again, did not check amount; assuming [1]).

I'll be careful to take special note in the future to see if its purely humanoid or applies to animals as well. Also, I'm going to assume it's based upon what the chunk is of. A foot or hand chunk may decay into nothing, whilst arm, torso, lower body, etc may decay into bones (number may be based again on area chunk is made of). I can't remember if heads are considered chunks when decapitation occurs; if so I believe they decay into skull. --[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 02:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)