2009-04-10T10:19:35Z

Denspb: /* Limited Caravan Accessiblity */

{{Archive|
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.
}}

== Culling on mandates ==

what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Trading flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)

Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|
|-
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})
|-
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})
Check green area reaches edge of map
|-
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."
|-
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"
|-
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded
|-
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})
|}

Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
'''Re: Adeptable's changes''' I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)
::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:::Ack, somehow didn't see this. Empty bins will still show up as Trading in the bring goods to depot menu, unmark them and your dwarves will haul them back to where they're needed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::Surely the bins' "Trading" status disappears after the Trader leaves? I mean, I've never noticed them as still being marked for "Trading" when the next caravan arrives next season. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 22:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

 

== How many wagons? ==

I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==

Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot?

I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)

:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)

:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)

::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.

== Merchant moods ==

My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?

:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)

== No more dwarven caravan ==

So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)

::I'm on year 13 of my most recent fortress and the Dwarven caravan declined to show up this year, after 12 years of no problem. I still don't meet the requirements for the Incoming King. In a previous game I did meet those requirements, and that did not interfere with the caravan (though the liason stopped letting me place orders once the king arrived). Anyway, I don't think my current fort has anything in common with what you've described, other than a mysteriously missing caravan after not damaging previous ones. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 00:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::It appears my problem was caused by a brief goblin siege that occurred when the caravan was supposed to be showing up. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==

I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::is this still true? i was unwittingly stealing everything off the merchants via the stocks screen. i dont have any steel yet, as i've not found any flux or iron ore. but every now and again, i noticed i had a bunch of steel/iron weapons/bolts/armo(u)r, so designated it all for melting, etc, etc.. eventually, i chose to 'dump' everything to see where they were getting it, and they were stripping the merchants of all their goods/clothes/everything metal xD will they come and siege me anytime soon? my army's not ready yet! i do give good profit margins (20%+), but i'm sure the stuff i nick is much more valuable :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

== Wagon movement ==

I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Arrival dates ==

Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)

==Wagons and magma==
A dwarven trade caravan passing over a magma channel on its way to my trade depot recently caught fire. Naturally, this caused lots of [[fun]], but I'm a bit perplexed by it. There was nothing flammable on the bridge - in fact, the magma beneath was 1/7 deep at best - but it looks like the wagons just spontaneously combusted as they passed over the stream. Can anyone confirm that it was the magma that caused this, or were the children just playing with matches again? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:07, 14 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven Caravan Wood Logs ==
I noticed there was a "verify" next to "carries more wood the less trees you cut down" under the Elven Caravans and am not sure if it is right or not. Can anyone confirm this? I have observed the stock of wood brought by the elves in two games as increasing significantly with time. In one of the games wood was scarce, in the other wood was plentiful but to dangerous to cut down and in both I would consistently buy out all of the wood logs from every caravan. So I had theorized the increase in the number of logs brought was related to demand conveyed by buying out the stock repeatedly for years. However, not cutting down trees and buying out all the wood logs would tend to go hand in hand. Also, to really see a significant increase in a specific item I would need to buy out all the wood stock from a caravan for close several years. It is possible that both the demand and level of "production" of wood determine how much is brought. If either is true for wood, then it might be true for other items that Elves bring. Also, did I format this thing right? --[[User:Pencilinhand|PencilinHand]] 8:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)
:In my experience it's something more like - the more you have in stock, the less they bring. I was buying out all logs from them, and they brought ~120 logsevery year, and I chopped a lot of trees, but used them fast. Then I built some wooden machinery (axles, windmills), my stocks always showed about 100 logs in them after that, and elves began to bring only about 5 logs...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)

::I did a series of experiments over a period of 3 years in my current fort and can confirm that Dorten is right and my previously stated theories are wrong. A forts stockpile of wood appears to be the biggest factor in determining how much wood is brought by the elven caravans. When I had a stockpile of 51 wood logs the elves brought no wood, when I had a stockpile of 0 wood logs they brought 43 wood logs, similar results were observed regardless of if I was cutting down trees during the year(though I did not test any clear cuts). The other caravans may have brought more wood as well, but further testing is needed before I am confident in that statement, as it may have been caused by offerings/gifts. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)

==Trade Depot Color==
I know this doesn't have anything to do with trading, but it is interesting. Since Trade Depots are made out of 3 stones (or logs etc etc), if you combine stones of various colors, what do you get? I tried combining Orthoclase (yellow), Kimberlite (blue) and Olivine (green), and I got a green depot. Then I tried Gabbro (black) and 2 Orthoclase, and the depot was yellow. Kimberlite, Petrified Wood (red) and Olivine, the depot was green. Does anyone know how the color is selected?

:As far as I understand is the last stone for the color (or was it the first one?) --[[User:NobbZ|NobbZ]] 10:50, 23 February 2009 (EST)
::I'll have to fire up the game again when I get home, but I could have sworn that I've occasionally wound up with two-tone depots when I've used different stones. The main part was one color while the corners were another. But maybe I'm just imagining things. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)

== stealing animals ==

One of the objects I happened to cheat the game of was a nickel cage with a dog in it. on the units page, the dog was still shown to belong to the traders. Is there any way to change this? (or at least any [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun fun] to be had from this?)

: What happens when you [[kennel|train]] it into a war dog? or, for that matter, does the game recognize it as an animal that can be [[kennel|tamed]]? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:15, 25 March 2009 (EST)

==Buggy behavior with sieges==

In my current game the dwarven caravan arrived, followed immediately by a goblin siege. I crushed the siege but a couple caravan guards and a pack animal were killed. A handful of merchants, guards and animals got stuck at the edge of the map, and I never got to trade, even though all the wagons made it safely into the depot. I was however able to make the usual arrangements with the liason. Then I got the message that the caravan was leaving but they didn't actually go. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any way to fix it? --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 23:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

:In case something like this happens to anyone else, I found that digging out the area under the stuck merchants and collapsing it fixed the problem. The survivors started moving off the map and the wagons immediately pulled out of the depot. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Limited Caravan Accessiblity ==

Contrary to the comments in the section on wagons, I do not believe you can force a caravan to enter the map at a specific point. Running 0.28.181.40d, I build a wall so that there is only one entrance to the map that is accessible to the depot. Humans arrived from another point of the map, and I got the message "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site." I do see 'Depot accessible' on D. --[[User:Sfogarty|Sfogarty]] 05:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:As for my experience, game first chooses the side of the map for traders, and then checks if wagons can reach depot. I had to chop trees yearly to keep fortress accessible before I've build a road. However, it can be not side but embarking tile that is chosen before accessibility check, but I haven't done any experiments to validate if it is the case. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Cross-training

2009-02-25T07:58:08Z

Denspb: signature added

=Pump operator notes=
Not sure the toughness note is really that important. The gym is just used for dwarven stat gains, so dwarves are beefy enough to excell at whatever you throw at them. It scarcely matters how well they pump, just so long as they get to Legendary to be reassigned to the military or something else. I've noticed gym graduates make fantastic hunters for example. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:47, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, it makes pump-training far more effective for dwarves that are already tough: they can hit legendary in a season or two, where other dwarves take about a year. So if you have a finite number of dwarves you can spare for training, choose tough ones. Strong ones can be put in plate and made to spar, or turned into siege operators.

:Currently I'm training all my haulers, in shifts. Ones that gain toughness get to keep pumping until they're ready for the military. Strong ones get stone hauling duty. Everyone else gets food, item, or refuse duty.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:06, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:: I now give all my haulers the custom profession ''ROTC.'' --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:50, 8 November 2008 (EST)

=Dwarf Powered Mill notes=
Actually, it is better not to cook seeds. As seeds have quantity cap at 200 seeds for each plant, milling will not produce seeds after you hit the cap. It saves a visible amount of food hauler's work. [[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 02:58, 25 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Cross-training

2009-02-25T07:57:23Z

Denspb:

40d:Item quality

2009-02-23T14:42:50Z

Denspb: /* Skill and quality levels */ : added probability for legengary +1 .. +4 levels

All items in the game have a [[item value|base value]], which is multiplied by what [[material value|material]] the item is made of and by the item's '''quality'''. [[Decoration]]s (such as bone, gems, and studding) further increase the value.

Item quality can have an effect on an item's properties, especially [[armor]] and [[weapons]].

__TOC__
== Quality grades ==

All crafted items ([[furniture]], [[armor]], [[bolts]], etc.) – but not intermediate materials ([[bars]], [[blocks]], etc. except [[cloth]], which does have quality levels) – are bracketed by characters that show the quality of their craftsdwarfship. Dyeing also has a quality level, as does Decorating/Encrusting (with gems, leathers, cloth, etc). Prepared foods have quality levels. Alcohol has a hidden quality rating that controls the amount of happiness a dwarf gets from drinking it. It is not yet known whether the damage or destruction of masterful alcohol can cause tantrums.

{|
! style="padding-right: 35px;" | '''Designation''' || style="text-align: left;" | '''Description''' || style="padding-right: 20px; padding-left: 15px; text-align: center;" | '''Value Modifier''' || style="text-align: center;" | ''' Damage / To-Hit / Armor Modifier'''
|-
|  Item Name || style="text-align: center;" | —     || style="text-align: center;" | ×1  || style="text-align: center;" | ×1.0 
|-
| -Item Name- || Well-crafted || style="text-align: center;" | ×2  || style="text-align: center;" | ×1.2 
|-
| +Item Name+ || Finely-crafted || style="text-align: center;" | ×3  || style="text-align: center;" | ×1.4 
|-
| *Item Name* || Superior quality || style="text-align: center;" | ×4  || style="text-align: center;" | ×1.6 
|-
| ≡Item Name≡ || Exceptional || style="text-align: center;" | ×5  || style="text-align: center;" | ×1.8 
|-
| ☼Item Name☼ || Masterful || style="text-align: center;" | ×12  || style="text-align: center;" | ×2.0 
|-
| ''Unique name'' || Artifact || style="text-align: center;" | ×120  || style="text-align: center;" | ×2.0 
|}

When a masterful quality item is created, the game will announce, "<dwarf> has created a masterpiece!" The destruction or theft of such a masterpiece will cause the dwarf that created it an unhappy thought. [[Trading]] a masterpiece item to merchants is always safe. Masterpiece meals can be eaten safely, although allowing the food to rot will provoke the same response as theft or destruction. Using masterpiece bolts will not cause a tantrum, even if the bolts break. However, if a kobold or wild animal steals a used masterpiece bolt which was lying around, then the maker's mood will decrease. If a bolt misses its target and falls into the [[chasm]] or is melted by "the impertinent [[magma]]", this also counts as defacement.

The magnitude of the unhappy thought is equal to 1000 divided by the number of masterworks the dwarf has created{{verify}}. So a engraver with hundreds of masterwork images on the walls of the fortress will be merely irked by the destruction of a one, while a a dwarf who has only made a single masterwork item would become deeply upset.

Since legendary dwarves are most likely to be the ones creating masterpieces, keeping these creations safe should be high priority; tantruming legendary dwarves can be very difficult to subdue.

[[Artifact]] items have a unique name instead of bracketing symbols and are worth 120x base value. Artifacts, like masterpiece items, will cause a significant mood drop in the creator when destroyed or stolen. According to inspections of the memory values, it seems that artifacts have the same quality value as masterpiece items, with presumably the same armor/weapon modifiers (×2.0){{verify}}.

== Skill and quality levels ==

Tradesdwarves of different [[skill]] levels will produce items of differing quality. "Dabbling" dwarves never (without applicable preference) produce anything above a basic quality item, [[legendary]] dwarves usually produce Exceptional items, and the best legendary dwarves produce Masterful items approximately 27% of the time.

Preferences for particular materials and objects make a considerable difference. Although the exact adjustment is unknown, preliminary testing indicates that they can boost effective skill (not quality) by one to three levels (if the craftdwarf likes the item type, subtype and material).

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" valign="bottom"
|-
!Chance for !!No quality!!Well-crafted!!Finely-crafted!!Superior quality!!Exceptional!!Masterful!!Average [[Value]] Multiplier!!Jump in Average Value
|-
|Dabbling || 100% || || || || || ||1.0 ||
|-
|Novice || 80% || 18% || 1.9% ||0.13% ||0.007% ||0.00009% ||1.2226 ||0.2226
|-
|No label || 60% || 32% || 6.9% || 1.0% || 0.1% ||0.003% ||1.4924 ||0.2698
|-
|Competent || 40% || 42% || 14% || 3.1% || 0.5% ||0.02% ||1.8114 ||0.319
|-
|Skilled || 20% || 48% || 24% || 6.8% || 1.6% ||0.09% ||2.2428 ||0.4314
|-
|Proficient || || 50% || 33% || 12% || 4.0% ||0.28% ||2.7036 ||0.4608
|-
|Talented || || 40% || 36% || 17% || 6.6% ||0.58% ||2.9596 ||0.256
|-
|Adept || || 30% || 37% || 21% || 10% || 1.1% ||3.182 ||0.2224
|-
|Expert || || 20% || 37% || 26% || 15% || 1.8% ||3.516 ||0.334
|-
|Professional|| || 10% || 36% || 30% || 21% || 2.9% ||3.878 ||0.362
|-
|Accomplished|| || || 33% || 33% || 29% || 4.4% ||4.288 ||0.41
|-
|Great || || || 27% || 33% || 34% || 5.9% ||4.538 ||0.25
|-
|Master || || || 20% || 32% || 40% || 7.7% ||4.804 ||0.266
|-
|High Master || || || 13% || 31% || 46% || 9.8% ||5.106 ||0.302
|-
|Grand Master|| || || 6.7% || 28% || 53% || 12% ||5.411 ||0.305
|-
|Legendary || || || || 25% || 60% || 15% ||5.8 ||0.389
|-
|Legendary+1 || || || || 20% || 63% || 17% ||5.995 ||0.195
|-
|Legendary+2 || || || || 15% || 66% || 19% ||6.199 ||0.204
|-
|Legendary+3 || || || || 10% || 68% || 22% ||6.412 ||0.213
|-
|Legendary+4 || || || || 5% || 71% || 24% ||6.635 ||0.223
|-
|Legendary+5 || || || || || 73% || 27% ||6.89 ||0.232
|}

The above table is based on the formula discovered by [[User:Bartavelle]]:

First, a skill level is computed, apparently directly related to the dabbling...legendary indicators. No skill or dabbling is 0, legendary is 15. It's capped at 20.

Item quality is set to 0.

Then dice are rolled.

* If d5 < skill level, quality is bumped. Otherwise, it just returns quality 0.
* If d10 < skill level, quality is bumped. Otherwise, it just returns quality 1.
* If d15 < skill level, quality is bumped. Otherwise, it just returns quality 2.
* If d20 < skill level, quality is bumped. Otherwise, it just returns quality 3.
* If d25 < skill level and d3 == 1, quality is set to 5. Otherwise, it just returns quality 4.

This gives the 6 quality levels (0 to 5).

According to inspections of the memory values, it seems that artifacts have a quality of 5.

== Effect of quality on weapon skill {{ver|0.23.130.23a}} ==

To quote Toady:
<div style="width: 50em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee;">
The quality of any weapon, including crossbows used as launchers, affects the skill of the shooter. I think this even leads to obscene things like master crossbows + master bolts causing recruits to shoot like legends. In general, if the quality Q is from 0 to 5, the skill is modified according to

Skillnew = Skilloriginal × (1.0 + 0.2 × Q) + Q

This is pretty extreme and will probably be reduced for all weapons.
</div>

while equipped with a single masterpiece weapon, dwarves have skill increase to Accomplished, not Legendary. Still, the bonus is way too high. See this chart for the exact levels:

Note: This chart is out of date/wrong due to the facts that the integer that represents a specific skill level is not known, how the formula rounds is not known, and the fact that higher legendaries exist is known.

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" valign="bottom"
|-
!Result for !!Well-crafted!!Finely-crafted!!Superior quality!!Exceptional!!Masterful
|-
|Dabbling ||No label ||Skilled ||Talented ||Expert ||Accomplished
|-
|Novice ||Competent ||Proficient ||Expert ||Accomplished||Master
|-
|No label ||Skilled ||Adept ||Professional ||Master ||Grand Master
|-
|Competent ||Talented ||Expert ||Great ||High Master||Legendary
|-
|Skilled ||Adept ||Accomplished ||Master ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Proficient ||Expert ||Great ||Grand Master ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Talented ||Professional||Master ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Adept ||Accomplished||Grand Master ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Expert ||Master ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Professional||High Master ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Accomplished||Grand Master||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|-
|Great and better||Legendary||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary ||Legendary
|}

If this is true, then it would be possible to:

# Train a couple dozen skilled miners
# Give them exceptional picks
# Draft them and give them decent armor
# Kill a goblin siege with a couple dozen legendary speardwarves (picks = 70% damage spears) as long as there are no enemy champions to destroy your armour/shield/wrestling inept speardwarves

[[Category:Items|*Quality]]