Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2008-10-11T17:19:59Z

Dadamh: /* Shutting down the archive */

Order descends newest to oldest. Use edit to add a newer section.

== The "Bedroom Design" page is broken ==

When trying to load the page I get this error:

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/Parser.php on line 2717

It's been this way for a couple days at least. The rest of the wiki works fine. <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Phillstac3|Phillstac3]]</small>

:The culprit was too much QD, which caused the page to load too slowly. The wiki gave up when it didnt load fast enough. I have the culprit for now, but I have idea for a more permanent solution. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:28, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

== "new version" ==

ShunterAlhena changed "new version" to "new (3D) version" to "3D version". I changed this to "Z-axis version", to reduce newbie confusion (thinking there's a fully-3D graphical version could be disappointing) but now I'm starting to wonder if maybe "new version" would be best after all. As far as I can tell, "new version" doesn't just mean all of the versions since the October 2007 release, but rather the ''latest'' version.

That said, that's what I'll tweak it to. --[[User:JT|JT]] 19:47, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

== Offline Version? ==

Is there an offline version of DwarfFortressWiki (ala [http://static.wikipedia.org/ Wikipedia])? I'm going to be doing some traveling, and would like to use this resource when I don't have internet access :) --[[User:Sim9]], unsigned

:I know that obtaining one is possible. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:31, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:I was told that a torrent was circulating on 4chan and other places but I don't know anything else about it. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:46, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
:Go to [[Special:Export]] then go to [[Special:Allpages]] in another window/tab. Make a copy of every article's name. Paste it into the export page and click export. Now its just a matter of finding a way to parse the xml file you get.

:I now have an offline copy. I can post it if anyone is interested in a copy :) --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 22:57, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Just found this: [http://www.wikitaxi.org/delphi/doku.php/products/wikitaxi/index WikiTaxi]. It took me a while to find a suitable program for viewing Wiki XML dumps, so I thought I'd save some others the time. By 'suitable', I mean easy to use and without requiring a lot of extras before it will work (most I found require you to set up a server with a MySQL database and apache - I already meet those requirements on my desktop, but that almost defeats the purpose of downloading the wiki in the first place). This one however is completely portable - I can have it on external storage and use it on any computer I find myself needing to. --[[User:Tyranic-Moron|Tyranic-Moron]] 13:57, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Coincidence? ==

I got a quote that said:<br>
"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!"<br>
--Savok<br>
right after creating this account... Is this a coincidence or a command?<br>
--[[User:Peewee|Peewee]] 20:02, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:Coincidence. That's the end of a newbie-welcoming template that someone found funny enough to put in the [[Main Page/Quote|Quote list]], which delivers randomized quotes to the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

::Both coincidence AND command. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:41, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

== Russian Interwiki ==
I've made a deal with the admin of the Russian wiki, we can both link to each other. So if you know Russian, you're welcome to add links to the bottom of pages to their equivalent Russian pages.
For example, on the [[Carp]] page, I have added [[ru:Карп]] - so there is now a link to its Russian counterpart in the left-side navigation bar, under the "In other languages" header. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:37, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
:Looks like the other wiki may be down/broken. I don't have a suggested action though. -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
::I have made new russian wiki. URL: http://www.dfwk.ru. I do translation now. -- [[User:igoreklim|igoreklim]] 22:15, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Many Laughs ==
Congrats to whomever made the april's fool's day changes. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 04:34, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Agreed. I didn't think of doing anything myself so kudos for going in. Nobody changes it for the whole day, I'll revert any reverts. :) --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 08:56, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

== Navigation on bottom ==
Since recently (2 or 3 days) the navigation and search box are at the very bottom of every page (opera user). Can someone please fix this? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:It's at the bottom of the page for me too, and I'm using Firefox. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 11:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

::Confirm this is happening for me as well, Firefox 2.0.0.12 ubuntu 7.04. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 14:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:::For what it's worth, ditto, and FF 2.0.0.12 Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 Service Pack 2. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:07, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

::::Hah! Sorry, meant Senso. XD Good to have another confirmation regardless. Anyway, I went ahead and emailed him. It's weird how it just cropped up all of a sudden, hopefully something easily fixed. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 02:00, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

:It should be back to normal now, sorry for that. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

::No worries, looks good here. Thanks! --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
::: *[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] jumps up and rejoices*
:::: "[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] was pleased to have a mandate deadline met lately."? --[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 06:13, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

== "American" English or Rest-Of-The-World English? ==
Just a minor question, while spell-checking articles, I've encountered a few discrepancies between the two, but I usually see the "rest of the world English" more. So what's the official rule here, assuming we're going for a constant? --[[User:Snoob|Snoob]] 08:40, 7 March 2008 (EST)
:Haha. You don't sound biased at all ;). I figure we can go one of two routes. We can either claim that DF is an american topic, since it's being made in america by an american and the wiki is on an american domain—or we can say DF is an international topic since people from all over are funding Toady. If it's an international topic, we might as well follow the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English wikipedia manual of style]. Wikipedia has no preference over the variant used, but there should be consistency in each article. The first user who makes an edit which disambiguates the variety being used in the article is considered the first major contributor and all subsequent edits to that article should use the same type of english. If in doubt, we have history pages. I think the reason you see british english more often in the wiki is because we've had a few editors who in their extreme modesty decided british english is superior and changed several of the american english articles over. I've noticed this happening on a few occasions. (please dont do that). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:53, 7 March 2008 (EST)
::I second sticking with the Wikipedia's Manual of Style for language. And as a note, there isn't a "Rest of the World English." In fact, the language is documented to vary [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accents_of_English_speakers|as much as the countries that speak it].
::So, how does the Namibian English variant sound to everyone? At least then most of us are at an equal starting point! :P --[[User:TarrVetus|TarrVetus]] 11:25, 7 March 2008 (EST)
::I made a pretty bad assumption there, I suppose. I was trying to not sound biased, but I suppose I accidentally let it creep in somewhere. I'll just leave the variations to you guys and stick to cleaning up actual typos then. :P --[[User:Snoob|Snoob]] 11:37, 7 March 2008 (EST)
:::Hehe. I can sympathize, Snoob. I've had this debate with myself in the past, though it was from the other side. --[[User:TarrVetus|TarrVetus]] 13:17, 7 March 2008 (EST)
:::This is a late reply, but I am an American in China. Here, English is classified either as American English or British English, and American English is widely preferred even though British English is taught to beginning students. I wouldn't say calling it "rest-of-the-world English" is very accurate. I would venture that many countries in Latin America also prefer American English, but what do it know.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 01:16, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

== Version updates ==
There's a new version out today, so the version number and release date need changing. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how to do this as they appear to use some kind of function instead of being typed in. Somebody with the know-how fancy making the change? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 10:04, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:[[Template:current/version]]
:[[Template:current/lastupdate]]
:[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:15, 24 February 2008 (EST)

== Quote randomization ==

VengefulDonut, if you want to randomize that for improved quality, you'll need to do it right: Many (most?) of the quotes in the quote archive are in an ARCHIVE: They are bad quotes never intended to be reused. Also, what do we do when we get new quotes? Do they get put in a database, not to be used till the RNG chooses? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:What would you like? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:36, 7 February 2008 (EST)

::I suggest that one quote is permanant, and the other quote refresh everytime we visit the page. So far, I noticed that even if I refresh the page, the same quotes stay. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 05:49, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::A new quote on the left, and a randomized archive quote on the right? As for the refesh: the template checks the time. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:35, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::What is the tick? Every few minutes? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:14, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::The template checks the time, but the time doesn't update because the server caches the page. It gets a new one whenever the server refreshes it; you can force this by editing the page or by clicking the preview button. Also, I could make it so that one of the quote boxes picks from the newest x quotes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:43, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::Having a newer quote on the left and an archived one on the right sounds better than a permanent quote on either. PS. Might want to remove a few of them, like the 'palisade' quote. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:47, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::::The goal of the quote archive was to archive every single quote which ever got to the main page. If you want to thin out only the best quotes, I suggest you use a separate database for that. Even then, how "good" is a quote is very open to interpretation and taste. If I had to remove all the quotes I find bad or unfunny myself, I'd probably remove 80% of the present quotes in the archive. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::::Ok. The right quotebox now chooses from the last 10 quotes instead of from among all of them. If anyone feels like they want to prune out or fiddle with quotes, go for it. I think what I've set up should be pretty straightforward, but if you have questions I'll be glad to answer them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:11, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::I added two new quotes (40, and 41), but only 40 is showing up at the moment, am I doing something wrong? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 10:10, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

::::You did it exactly right. The left quote box randomly chooses between all quotes. The right quote box randomly chooses between the 10 newest. It will come up eventually. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:17, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::If possible can we implement a check to insure that the left quote and the right quote are not in fact the same quote? I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal with a small quote, however when it is large, such as the 7 line one I ran into today appearing in both boxes, it makes the page seem a bit crowded and symmetrical. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 14:51, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::We could do that, but the probability of identical quotes is <sup>1</sup>⁄<sub><totalquotenum></sub>, so I don't think it's really needed.

== Requesting installation of ParserFunctions extension ==
It would be nice if the ParserFunctions[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions] extension was installed (#if, #expr, etc). It would be useful for having templates that exclude parts of it if no values are provided. Note: I cannot find a place for requesting extensions --[[User:Aygar|Aygar]] 13:00, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:ParserFunctions has been '''installed'''. I did a quick test and it works. Let me know if you run into problems. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)

== German Translation ==
I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages LanguageTemplates]? Is there a need for other additional languages? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 14:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)
::My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)
::There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:::My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)
::::I'm French too, you know. But when I offered to host a DF wiki, I didn't do it in French because I know English is widely used. But I'm still glad that someone else started a French wiki. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)
I don't see what harm could come from hosting a German, Japanese, and Russian wiki. It's not like it will interfere with the English one. Also, as a student of languages, I would love to read equivalent articles in German and Japanese. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 22:01, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::I am german and while I can read english books like german ones, I have to agree that being able to use a UI and understanding the finer points in a tutorial etc. are two quite different things. I guess that if the bandwidth of the wiki is no burden on anyone, it could actually lead to an influx of new ideas and players, which is very important for a "community" game like DF. --[[User:Caiburn|Caiburn]] 20:44, 18 February 2008 (CET+1)

== Version of MediaWiki? ==
Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses?
Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)
:I think I found out. This page: [[Special:Version]] says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Combat Logs? ==
What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== Humor? ==
Any thoughts about possibly linking [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I second that. This second is adorned with hanging rings of Goshenite and menaces with spikes of Goshenite. - [[User:Laugurinn|Laugurinn]] 22:57, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
<br>""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:That's not exactly funny, but [[Main_Page/Quote]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:43, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

== Demystify messages? ==
Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Importing old entries ==
What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --[[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:You could use [[Template:Verify]] to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's ''exactly'' what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Basic Format ==
I think the [[Farming]] page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. [[Gear Assembly]]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --[[User:Dogcow|Dogcow]] 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:Would like to second the build-tree suggestion. New player here, and I use the wiki to reference items I require but do not know how to build. I may be a bit slow, but it took me half a year to figure out I needed a Weaponsmith to make new Iron Picks. The wiki page only mentions the Metalsmith's Forge, and it never occurred to me that Weaponsmiths use the same workshop, since a pick is physically both wood and iron. Having a description that says exactly what is needed to create an item would be very useful for new players. --[[User:T.D.|tuxdelux]] 15:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Change guide? ==
Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
::*The thing is, the whole idea of the wiki kind of goes against 'finding things out on your own'. If you want to be completely surprised by a game, don't read a wiki specifically intended to reveal all the details about it... sure, we do put warnings on the most spoily stuff, but at the end of the day this is a Wiki intended to document everything about Dwarf Fortress, so just about every page is going to be a spoiler to some degree. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:12, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

To add my take on this subject... I think that this is a gigantic game, in some ways more complex then any of the Elder Scrolls game. I mean, in the ES games, you have weapons, armor and others... In this game you have an exceptionally large number of items of many different types and purposes... It's very difficult for newbies to fathom exactly what an item is used for. Without this Wiki, I think a lot of people would struggle with this game. [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:59, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== Possible bugs ==

Hi, this is my first time writing to any wiki.

I am writing about possible bugs. I have seen, that some sections of this wiki contain information about bugs. I think I have found one, but don't where to put it, or whether it is already here. I am also sorry, if this isn't the right place. If so, please delete this entry.

Anyway, if your furniture stockpile isn't big enough, and you try to put furniture into a specific room,it is sometimes possible, that that furniture won't be put. Instead, it will be blinking forever. You can change it functioning (make bedroom, throne room...) but to be honest, I don't know if this item is actually there, or not.

== alternate site???? ==

there appears to be a very similar site at
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Immigration
(not just that adress)
what is the diffrence???

That's the address which was originally used for the site, before Senso registered a separate domain for it (dwarffortresswiki.net). Both domains are valid and point to the same content, so they're interchangeable. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 20:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

== Quotes ==

Just for the record, does anybody mind if I put a link to the [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page on the front page? [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:58, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

== Shutting down the archive ==

In about two weeks, I will shutdown the read-only archive (http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net) as I believe we've been using the current versions long enough. I'm also looking at ways to reduce the server load, disk space used and bandwidth consumed. So there. If articles were not ported to the current wiki, please do ASAP. If you have objections, please speak now. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:33, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:Regarding outright deletion: I'd prefer you didn't. Is there at least a way to preseve it in some downloadable format? The old version of the game was interesting in its intrinsic danger, and besides that, I have a succession game using that version. I think a downloadble, locally-running copy would be a good idea.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:19, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Animal trap

2008-06-04T20:26:55Z

Dadamh: /* Effectiveness */

So dwarves can make and use animal traps WITHOUT the hunting skill? Just trapping? Does this ensure that my carpenter won't go try and wrestle elephants? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:28, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:Yup. Just activate Trapping and leave Hunting alone. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:06, 10 November 2007 (EST)
==Effectiveness==
Does this work? Does it work agains the [[hoary marmots]] that wake everyone up and stop them working?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:11, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:Hoary Marmots aren't vermin! You'll have to build real cages to trap them.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:26, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Ridding myself of vermin in traps ==

I have successfully trapped three lizards, and they are all sitting in my animal storage room. I worry that my Mayor(who has a deathly fear of lizards) will come in and see them. I'd like to make them into food, but I tamed one and then it couldn't be designated for slaughter. What should I do? Melt the traps? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 23:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
:You can't butcher vermin, much less get material from them. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:15, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

:Just wait some time. Sometimes, dwarves will come in and eat them. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:21, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Old version ==

If you compare this article with the article of the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Animal_trap old wiki] you see how it can be improved. [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 07:13, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Dwarf cancels task: Dropoff inaccessible

2008-06-04T20:21:18Z

Dadamh: New page: This occurs when a dwarf is moving an item and the path between the dwarf and the stockpile or garbage dump is suddenly blocked, or forbidden by "Dwarves Stay Inside" order. For instance ...

This occurs when a dwarf is moving an item and the path between the dwarf and the stockpile or garbage dump is suddenly blocked, or forbidden by "Dwarves Stay Inside" order.

For instance the stockpile is in a room and you lock all the doors.

{{Errors FAQ}}

Bedroom Design

2008-06-04T20:19:00Z

Dadamh: Redirecting to Bedroom design

#REDIRECT [[Bedroom design]]

40d Talk:Eerie glowing pit

2008-06-04T17:28:03Z

Dadamh: /* Captives */

{{spoiler}}

== The Demons ==

How powerful ARE the demons now? I gather that a pit chamber will release piles of them, but how many and how nasty are they all? Wonder if adamantine is really worth it... though if you've planned it out, I suppose it might be. Wonder how many demons a legendary dwarf warrior wielding masterwork adamantine weapons and armor could take out by himself!

:They're as nasty as they used to be. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 11:38, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I had repulsed the initial wave of 1 Daemon and 7 Spirits of Fire by 5 marksdwarves and 4 axedwarves. 2 marksdwarves and 2 axedwarves were Elite in full steel chain/plate, others - on their way to it. Lost all axedwarves and 1 marksdwarf in the process. A few seasons later I thought that there weren't much more daemons and breached the pits in a new spot. By that time I had 3 Champion marksdwarves in Fortress Guard (not controllable at all :( ), ~20 wardogs, 4 other marksdwarves, 2 of which - Elite and 4 axedwarves/hammerdwarves at about 'competent' each. All the civilians (90 of them) were drafted into military with some extra weapons and no armor including ~10 miners from Legendary to novice with picks. The aftermath in the units screen is 16 dead Spirits of Fire including 7 from the initial attack, 10 live and happy Spirits of Fire with '''very''' long names, probably some more Spirits of Fire in ambush/invisible to me state and 5 recruits resting and dehydratated in remote corners of my bedroom area. There were immence lags when my stockpiles cathed fire and it were heavily lagging when I got there in adventure mode. --[[User:Another|Another]] 15:05, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I just recently breached a pit, only to result in my entire fortress virtually being annihilated, 109 military dwarves were killed, including a Hammerlord with a legendary adamantine hammer, a mortally wounded Legendary Captain of the Guard, and the daemons lost only 50 total. --[[User:Naze|Naze]] 23:19, 12 December 2007

:I cleansed a demon pit that included exactly 30 fire spirits and a demon. I built a corridor to the chamber, filled it with spikes and chained them to a lever, with the pull lever/R action. It worked quite well despite the fact that my spikes were melt by the demons as they approached. They eventually had to go through a corridor where marksdwarves were stationned. They killed 5 marksdwarves, and some managed to enter my fortress undetected. I was VERY lucky because the fortress guard was useful! If you disable TEMPERATURE, they will be destroyed with no sweat. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:01, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:If you re-site your barracks to just outside the pits, then your fortress guard will find themselves joining the front line... [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 09:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== Magma mini-pipes/vents? ==

Are the magma bits considered unconnected, and thus will cool to obsidian, or are they in effect pipes/vents and will refill via the new code? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 23:29, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:there is no such thing as disconnected magma solidifying. that was added for some reason by someone to the wiki a long time ago but is incorrect. magma that is not connected anything will stay magma forever. the only way to turn it into obsidian is by adding water -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 05:15, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::Although, to be fair, depth 1 magma will cool to, um... air or something. At any rate, if you let it get to depth 1 it evaporates, much like water. Except more frustrating, because it's very slow to begin with.--[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Twas cooling in 2D. And what about refilling?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::What? Magma didn't ever cool in 2D, except for the special event that sometimes occurred on breaching the magma river.
::::ah, the magma river. The name brings back such memories...
::::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rewalling/Flooring ==

If you floor over the glowing pit rather as opposed to rewalling do the demons still spawn? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 18:18, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:No, reflooring still can release demons. Tested the hard way. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Additionally, building walls over every glowing pit tile still releases demons. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

== First encounter ==

A creature I am developing, called the solen, was tested today using these. That is, demons. And the interesting thing is, fourteen have slaughtered--so far--about...

20 tentacle demons, 5 daemons.

Shall I upload pics of the room, its contents, and the glowing pit itself? Also I think this should be moved to ''Eerie Glowing Pit'', as that's what it really is. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 17:21, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:I like the move idea. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Captives ==

what happens if you free the captives in a glowing pit after surviving the demon onslaught? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 02:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:dunno, think they just go around babbling or somesuch :\ --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:32, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::They are all insane, mostly melancholy. If you unhook them, they just act like melancholy dwarves and wander around or throw themselves in the pit. Poor guys :( --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Eerie glowing pit

2008-06-04T17:27:05Z

Dadamh: /* Captives */

40d Talk:Legendary

2008-06-03T19:54:33Z

Dadamh: Encumbrence exists.

Should we mention that legendary dwarves don't pay money once the economy sets in?
Might be important.
--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]] 12:21, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

==Blinking==
I'm not sure how important this is, but I'll talk about it anyways. I set up a game with [[User:Rinn/AdjustProfile|Adjust Profile]] so that all of my starting Dwarves were legendary. So la-de-da-da, they all blink 'in tune' at the start. After some time, they some of them started to blink out of tune with one another. So does this mean that the blinking subroutine is independently timed on each dwarf? Is there significant lag if one has a legendary dwarf vs a non-legendary? Or 5? Or 50? --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 08:21, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

==Encumbrence==
The editor herein has not observed encumbrence. Watch a hauler drag a bin fill of platinum ore to the trading depot He MIGHT move a tile for every fifty steps his compatriots carrying single bolts get.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 15:54, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Barrel

2008-06-03T19:08:44Z

Dadamh: /* Barrels not used for food? */

Not sure exactly what we should have in this article. I'm taking out info on alcohol and putting that into its own article, but Mix Food might be noted on the Orders page. I'm moderately sure that I'm right about this order, but I may not have tested sufficiently - change it if you decide otherwise.

== Barrels not used for food? ==

I have a food stockpile near my dining room, and a furniture stockpile near my crafters. The food in the food stockpile appears to be dumped on the floor, while spare barrels sit in the furniture stockpile. How can I fix this? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 17:56, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:If the food stockpile has been entirely filled, dwarves won't move a barrel over. You need to clear some floor space in the food stockpile before they'll do so. This is one of the quirks with how it handles barrels.

:You can try designating another food stockpile to get the ball rolling, or try dumping some food in order to make room. --[[User:JT|JT]] 18:03, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:Addendum: Also check to see that you aren't reserving any barrels in the Stock{{k|p}}iles setting. --[[User:JT|JT]] 18:07, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

::It's also possible that your food is something like -Minced Plump Helmet Stew [85]- and thus won't fit in a barrel. Cooking usually causes this.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 15:08, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Thrower

2008-06-03T18:36:19Z

Dadamh: Throwing damage mods?

Does the size/weight of an object affect throwing damage? I know thrown vomit can injure things, but does a thrown platinum enormous corkscrew do more damage?
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Ash

2008-06-02T18:48:11Z

Dadamh: Ash created also by firebreathers

==Stockpiling==
Not that you want to keep it much... but where do I find how to store ash in the stockpile I am setting up between my wood furnace and my ashery?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Stock{{key|p}}pile, Cus{{key|t}}om settings, {{key|e}}nable Bars/Block, {{key|f}}orbid Bars: Metal, Blocks, Blocks: Metal. Then toggle off coal, potash, pearlash and tallow soap, leaving ash the only allowed material.--[[User:Maska|Maska]] 10:22, 5 January 2008 (EST)

== Other sources ==
Not that ash is really worth worrying about all that much, but I've noticed (through [[losing|fun]] times, that Magma Men (probably other firebreathing things too) can create ash from plants, trees, and dwarves on the surface at least. I was running a test site to pump magma around, and a magmaman to offense and breathed fire over my workshops and haulers/crafters. The dead dwarves and vegetation became ash.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:48, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Quiver

2008-06-02T18:16:09Z

Dadamh:

If I'm not mistaken, a dwarf can carry around ammo in one hand, its just that using a quiver frees up that hand. Correct? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 17:58, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:AFAIK they hold '''training''' ammo in their hand when shooting at archery range. But to hold a '''real''' ammo they need quivers. Marksdwarf without a quiver will take traning ammo and train, but at the time of emergency he will drop it and run to his station point, carrying no ammo with him. Kinda weird--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:08, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
:I can confirm that a dwarf can carry ammo in his hand. I have one hunter who doesn't have a quiver and he's carrying his steel bolts. I haven't supervised him enough to know if it hinders him in any way, though. Just check on him: he's sleeping with a steel bolt clutched in his hand...--[[User:Klox|Klox]] 00:00, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

:It may be some mix of those two. It seems like dwarves are reluctant to fire in a military sense with bolts in their hand. I have hundreds of bolts of both metal and wood around, but my quiverless dwarves chase down Rhesus Macaques and beat them to death with the side of their bow. The ones with quivers fire ammunition.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:16, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Unicorn

2008-06-02T18:13:45Z

Dadamh:

I think the opening paragraph for this, and other creatures, should describe what the unicorn looks like, their demeanor, and where they are found. The current paragraph refers to the old version of the game. Advice on how players should handle creatures hunt/ignore/barricade) is more useful to readers of the wiki. Does anyone agree? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

:It looks like a white U. There's a picture on the right. The places where it's found are there too. The main text goes into its demeanor (at least for adventure mode). Where does it reference the old version? Are you looking at the same page? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:42, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Escapes? ==

The creature data says "Benign" but I'm not sure. In a fortress, I had spammed a few cage traps around an area in which Unicorns once freely ran, and they kept running into them, so I had a nice fine stockpile of the useless things. However, they seemed to slip their cages somehow, because suddenly I had a half dozen Unicorns prancing around in my fort. Didn't seem hostile though, and some marksdwarves took care of it. Anyone else know if they typically escape cages? (wooden ones at least?)--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:13, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Weapon

2008-06-02T15:19:41Z

Dadamh:

Are the bows and blowguns melee or ranged? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Both. When they run out of ammo the dwarves will beat their enemies to death with their bows. The listed damage is for when that happens. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)

What about damage done by artifact weapons? Is it x2 like masterwork items?
:The exact damage bonus granted by artifact weapons is unknown, though it's quite likely much higher than a masterwork, if the value is any indicator. It's difficult to determine the exact bonus, as it's not in the raws, Toady hasn't told us, and it's very difficult to gauge exactly how much damage a weapon is dealing due to how little is known about the combat calculations in general. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 07:31, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Conflicting Info? ==

Earlier on, we say that dwarves can't wield bows because they are too big. Down in the tables, the bow is listed as two handed and not unwieldable. Need to correct one or the other (I'm too lazy to verify that in the current version bows are still unwieldable.) --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 06:20, 28 November 2007 (EST)
:Well, a bow is two handed and unwieldable to dwarves, do you mean in adventure mode with humans/elves? I think most of this data is fortress mode specific. --Gotthard 18:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)
::I didn't write the article, so I don't know it's original intention, however there are other weapons that can be wielded 2 handed by humans and others in adventure mode, but are listed as unweildable by dwarves. Need to choose to make the table fortress specific, adventure mode specific, or add another col and make it specific to both. As it stands now, it doesn't make sense. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 18:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:I'm almost certain this is dwarf specific, because I had some goblin axemen siege my base, and one of them was wielding a great axe in one hand, and a shield (not even a *buckler*) in the other hand. I think I saw the same thing with a halberd, but a pike was multigrasped. Looks like goblins have a lot more options than our poor dwarves. --Gotthard 12:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)

==Pike==

I been able to wield a bronze pike with an adventurer in 23a and it was quite deadly. This need to be verified. Maybe there is a strength requirement? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:43, 28 November 2007 (EST)

==Whips and scourges==
So, I'm guessing that you can't assign dwarves to use whips and scourges unless you've traded for one, right? And on the article for [[Scourge]] it says it's deadlier than a whip (which currently has no page)... Does that mean scourges are better in every way? What's worse? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:03, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Did you actually read the tables? It does 10 more damage, and is the same in everything else. Dwarves can't become lashers. There are no lasher option in the military settings... --[[User:Nitem4re|Nitem4re]] 14:13, 4 December 2007 (EST)

==Unorthodox Weapons==

Is there any information on unorthodox weapons such as coins and loincloths? For instance, are the material and crafting value taken into account, and what is the base damage of the item? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:13, 13 February 2008 (EST)
:"Unortodox" weapons are not really weapons. However, since ''absolutly anything thrown is deadly in the curren fight code'', a lot of people use about anything in adventure mode. This is how coins became popular as a throwing weapon. Part because it's as deadly as anything else and very light which mean you can carry a lot around, part because it is a weapon used in other ascii or rogue like games. You could throw butterfly corpses and mud around and it would be just as deadly as coins. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:52, 13 February 2008 (EST)

==Great axe==
I'm not saying dwarves can wear it, but the dead goblin over there wore one, and even a shield too..if I can get 5 minutes of peace from this annoying little buggers i will try to let one of my dwarves wear it..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:40, 3 March 2008 (EST)

:Youre lucky. You get alot of goblins! I want some! Can you send some over?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:16, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

==Weapons==
Clicking the links of some of the types of weapons redirects back to weapons. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 21:07, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

== Trap Components as Weapons ==

"There are a few enormous weapons that no race can wield..."

I beg to differ. In Adventure mode, at least in "Play Now", you can in fact pick these things up and hit people with them. I dunno if they come with lots of negatives for being a stupid weapon, but I know I've used an enormous wooden corkscrew to fight troglydites before. That, and a barrel of dwarven wine.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 11:19, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Rock salt

2008-06-01T21:38:26Z

Dadamh:

Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)

:Also, why is it possible to pump water through rock salt without dissolving any? My indoor well is over a resevoir of water in a rock-salt basin, which would presumably make it so salinated as to be worthless. No effect in game though.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:57, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

::Find me dwarven poop and I shall answer your question. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:15, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, have you ever wondered why the seeds left over from eating plants are left on the chair instead of the table?--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 17:38, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Your first fortress

2008-05-31T11:32:47Z

Dadamh: /* Have to be in contact with dwarves? */

=Other=
===== Content from [[Getting started]] =====
The goal of this page is to explain in detail, and for newbies, how to:
#Generate a world (possibly from a seed)(probably will link to article(s) on the topic)
#Pick a fortress location
#Name your fortress and starting group
#Buy skills and items, for the biome type picked in #2 (probably will give the newbie build from the [[starting builds]] page)
#Play the first month or two of the game, for the biome type picked in #2
I don't know how to write an article that does this, but I do know that this is what this article should be.<br>
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

I'd like to avoid having an overabundance of tutorial articles again. It sounds to me like all of the above would fit into [[Your first fortress]] just as easily. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:00, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:Should we go ahead and just #redirect it?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:14, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

===== Recording a Movie =====
I was thinking that someone could record a movie following the steps given here, as a visual aid. As DF is very structure-based it would help to visualize how the fortress is supposed to look. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 15:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

=Choosing a location=
==Your surrondings==
===== Have to be in contact with dwarves? =====

"You will want to be in contact with dwarves to get immigrants and a dwarven trading caravan."

Is it even possible to settle somewhere <i>without</i> dwarves? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:18, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

:Nope. Even on a volcanic island on the opposite side of the map from any dwarven mountainhome, caravans visited. It's worth noting that the local map was all land, but still they took ships over to get to the island itself, I suppose.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:49, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

::Ships don't exist. <tt>"Boats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --Toady One</tt>
::They don't need to, either - the caravans just bring along seven units of lava, one block of green glass, and a legendary glassmaker. Once they get to the beach, they turn a tiny patch of sand into an ocean-spanning bridge.
::That, or they tunnel under the ocean with an unskilled miner - he'll become legendary soon enough. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:01, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, I sort of meant it as a joke. Off-screen boats. My entire tile was flat land, but they still got there somehow, so I was supposing boats over the water.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 07:32, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

=Buying Skills and Items=
==Skills==
===== Skill choices =====
I know skill choices are largely a matter of preference, but the inclusion of a Bookkeeper, Manager, Expedition Leader, and Broker in the landing party definitely merit a mention, as well as whether or not a beginning player should throw a few skill points at improving his Broker's and Leader's key skills. Being able to talk that first dwarven caravan into throwing some extra sides of meat in could mean the difference in survival for a newer player.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I agree with this. When I make a new Caravan, I often make a Leader-type with ONLY leader/trade related skills. Even just having the ability to SEE the values of the items (even if you have them memorized) helps aid in making a good first-year trade session. And the first-year Dwarven caravan doesn't expect a large profit. I've done large deals with them that only netted them a 10-coin profit. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:45, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I think good bridging points are the seasons and end of the years; To aid readability and to separate into chunks, I think a listing of 'things to accomplish by winter', 'things to accomplish by spring (your first immingants!)', that sort of thing -- To avoid having a gigantic page, it might be better to split them off into "your first year", "your second year", especially because the gameplay changes signifiantly when you start getting nobles and your construction focus starts to shift from mere survival into making your dwarves happy, trading, and onward to economy and such. If people are interested in taking this approach, I'd certainly help with the writing. [[User:Bhodi|Bhodi]] 13:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Current skill list could be improved. Gem setter? Just wait for immigrant... Starting points can be spent in better ways. Mechanic/architect won't have time for architecture if he has well-planned day. Woodcutting goes up really quick. 4 points in axedwarf will give you enough active defense for everything that isn't strong enough to force you to lock all dwarves underground. Weaponsmith isn't really needed at start. Your unskilled dwarves aren't good fighters, and this 20-40% damage won't change much. Proficient in herbalism is too much. It's either only to bootstrap aboveground farming or to replace it entirely (for starting fortresses) in which case you don't need grower skill. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:35, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Speaking of gem setters, they're completely worthless because it takes more time to stud 300 exceptional mugs with gems than it takes to make 300 masterwork mugs. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:50, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::Hey now, the point of gem setting (after you've gotten a legendary one of course) isn't to stud your mugs, its to decorate those statues/thrones/tables/doors for the king or just general enjoyment of the fortress. Its not like you need gems or gem-studded objects for trade, buying out caravans is so trivially easy without that. And if you're going to stud a tradegood with gems, stud something with more intrinsic value than a mug - even a masterwork one isn't worth all that much.
::More generally on skills, i've been finding that once you get comfortable with the game you want to load up on skills that are harder to level up. I haven't even been starting with miners my last couple games, leveling miners is pretty easy. I often grab dwarves who can do one to two of the following: Carpentry, Building Design, Masonry, Mechanics, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith. After that, choose one of Clothier or Glassworker (and possibly grab some related profession skills). Make sure one dwarf has leader skills (I prefer 1 in each of Negotiator/Appraiser/Judge Intent/Persuader/Consoler). Combine these as you see fit (though I generally combo Architect/Mason and make my Mechanic my broker/trader/bookkeeper/hopefully leader). And make sure to get a Brewer/Grower to handle your food needs (starting with a trained cook I find to be less important than a trained brewer). Anything left I put into other possibly useful and hard to train skills - gem cutter or setter being most typical. The real trick is suitably micromanaging the 'easy-train' necessary jobs to avoid polluting your desired mood skill before the first wave of immigrants arrive. I've also been starting with an anvil most of the time too, and crafting my axe (and sometimes my picks, although you don't save much doing that).
::Which isn't to say beginners shouldn't start with some experienced miners and so forth. But the herbalist is wholely unnecessary (I've only above ground farmed once, and that was for dye plants and 4 years in). It would be more worthwhile to recommend they start in an area with a soil layer to make underground farming easier (and soil layers seem to be pretty common). But the starting advice recommends so much food that the only difficulty is figuring out how to irrigate, not having the time to do so before they run out of food. Finally, defensive skills are overrated. You want defense? That's what the mechanic is for. Stonefall traps are far more reliable than a military dwarf, and won't take ages getting into position, be sleeping/eating/drinking when you need them, or take an unlucky hit and die instead of finishing the critter. Far too much of a gamble, especially for a new player. (Kobold thieves are easily dealt with by drafting everyone within a small radius, or just letting it run away if only one dwarf is nearby - they won't try to engage your dwarves once spotted - or by dogs for that matter).
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:31, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a concern that fisherdwarf is a suggested skill. If you are along a river or ocean, chances are any fisherdwarves will be horribly mauled by deadly carp and longnose gar. Fish are deadly enough to any dwarves getting a drink from a river without tempting fate by actually fishing. One dwarf dying along a river creates a deadly cycle of dwarves attempting to loot the body and then being killed by fish.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 14:19, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

===== Dwarf with appropriate skills not necessarily the leader =====
I used a skill assignment similar to those recommended here and my presumptive leader with mining/judge of intent/consoler/appraiser/record-keeper/organizer was passed over for the weaponsmith/armorsmith. He was assigned outpost leader, manager, trader, and bookkeeper despite not having a single appropriate skill. And to really rub it it in, one of his traits is "never speaks out or attempts to direct activities." At least I was able to switch the jobs other than leader back to the right dwarf for the job (and I'm forcing the smith to smooth stone all day for his presumption.) One other factor that may have been involved is that the smith is friends with 5 others and the intended boss-dwarf has but one friend and one grudge. --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:12, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

==Items==
=====Huh?=====
Is this still up to date? In the newest version of DF, you don't seem to spend money on skills, but rather use points from a collective pool. There doesn't seem to be enough points to even come close to creating the suggested group. I've never actually played a game (hence my consultation of the "first fortress" page), so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something, though. Any advice? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind... I just realized I needed to remove items from the pool first. Maybe a note that you have to hit Tab to get to the items page would help? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

=Beginning the Fortress=
==Intro==
===== Wall of text =====
I think the "Beginning the Fortress" section isn't very pleasant to read. The bullet points help a bit, but I think numbered ones (matching the "TOC" above it) would be a bit more helpful. I'd however prefer to split the steps using numbered headlines, then it'd clearly define each step and automatically be indexed at the top. Thoughts? --[[User:TwoD|TwoD]] 13:03, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:That's beyond me, but anyone who can should feel free to clean it up and make it as readable as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Trading ==
=====Anvil=====
The caravan is by no means guaranteed to bring an anvil the first year. (Out of ten games started and played through first year, I think I've gotten an anvil twice.) You can request one from the liason, though. I'd edit the entry myself, but I'm not certain how to word it without totally changing that whole paragraph.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:41, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I think that Humans always bring an anvil or two, but I may be wrong. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 17:02, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:: You are not correct, Memo. I've had fortresses that have gone anvil-less for 2 years before a Dwarven Caravan finally brought one (brought three, actually). Edit: The first year's caravans (Fall Dwarven, Spring Elven, and Summer Human) are largely randomized. I've seen vastly different products being brought in on all three of those, with roughly similar settlements and trade requests. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)

===== Trading vs Growing=====
Is it just me, or is it much easier to teach people how to trade for food than it is to farm/grow/brew? I find one dedicated stonecrafter is more than enough to purchase all the food that can be possibly thrown at you, and will likely even be legendary by the time the second trade caravan comes along. For a "newb strategy" this might be the way to go instead of trying to explain floodgates and channels right off the bat. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yeah, but you're forgetting something. If a trade caravan gets ambushed or if they don't sell anything to you, then you're in trouble. And of course, trading with an Elf is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
My recommendation is to get food three ways;
1) Grow Plump Helmet
2) Fish
3) Kill animals for meat.[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

::Eeeeeexcept you don't know how to properly trade with the elves. As a general rule of thumb, if it once lived, don't sell it to them. Silk is fine, buy shit from the elves using the *cave spider silk sock*s you made from the dwarves' cave spider silk cloth that you bought with your *cat meat roast [40]*. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:16, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Alternately, trade them craploads of stonecrafts. I mean, there are two ways to clear a fortress of excess stone (stone blocks and stonecrafts), and one of them provides tradegoods, so stonecraft like mad. You'll get nice clean hallways too. Mechanisms would almost work, except they can't be binned. They're also a great early trade good, but elves will complain about the weight - you can unload a couple on the elves generally though if you clear them out (supplemented by lighter things, like... stonecrafts). Mechanisms are far better for doing things like buying metal bars and an anvil off the dwarf caravan, because they're more value/mass than those are.
:::You can also unload all those Narrow Giant Spider Silk loincloths you'll start collecting on elves, just make sure to check for blood spatters - elves don't like those too much.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:20, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

===== Office not required to meet with liaison =====
I met him in my barracks with no office built. :) --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
:I confirm. When I forgot to assign office to my Exp leader, he conducted meeting with liaison at meeting hall (designated from well)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

::I also confirm, my leader's thoughts included 'was embarassed to hold a meeting in a dining room'.--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 13:35, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Despite having built an office for him, he refused to use it while he was still an expedition leader - and received no bad thought because of it. From a different game, after becoming mayor he does receive an embarassed thought if no office is assigned. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:48, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:I fixed this in the article a week ago. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 15:24, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

==Stockpiles==
===== Moving refuse stockpile inside =====
Section about stockpiles recommends moving all stockpiles inside as soon as possible. It's wrong thing as it creates miasma if not handled properly. Best thing that can be done is either making custom stockpiles - one for bones/shells/skulls (inside, near craftdwarf shop) and one for rest (outside, near tanner), designing special anti-miasma room for refuse or order dwarves to dump rotting things into water/magma/chasm etc.

You dont understand the point - if your miasma creating stuff is usually put outside, the shit hits the fan one or another way when u have the first siege or even only ambush. Made this clearer in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:36, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for an example, I store my refuge and graveyard in a nearby cave/mountain/basement. I usually make the corridors a bit more winding then usual, and I put a few doors in for an air-lock effect. a 5x5 refuge pit should be enough for the first year, and 1-3 coffins in the graveyard just in case. [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Rock salt

2008-05-30T20:57:54Z

Dadamh:

40d Talk:Dog

2008-05-30T20:32:21Z

Dadamh: /* War dog */

==War dog==
is it me or can only male dogs become war dogs? i got a bitch that isnt recognized as trainable to war dog status... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:25, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Not at all. She's probably someone's pet already. Pet's can't be trained. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 13:42 27 November 2007 (CST)

Is it just for me, or are war dogs completely useless other than cannon fodder when restrained? When I assign them to dwarves they seem somewhat useful as they swarm the enemy. However, when I chain a line of 4-6 dogs at a choke point, 3+ goblins just plow through them unscathed and it seems like the dogs are trying to run from them rather than attack. [[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]]
:Chained war dogs are very useful to deter theify kobolds and snatchy goblins. These units ignore traps and stealth everywhere, but dogs chained near the fort entrance will eat them immediately.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d:Children

2008-05-30T20:27:05Z

Dadamh:

__NOTOC__
Dwarves are considered '''children''' for their first twelve years. They learn how to become a dwarf through living in and participating in dwarven society with no formal schools, apprenticeships or other formal learning; even parenting seems quite minimal.

In fortress mode, some migrant dwarves are married and may bring children. Children who immigrate to your fortress might be any age from 2 to 12, and there is no way to determine the age of a child.

"Resident" dwarves may also give birth to children. This can be stopped or reduced by editing the init file. Dwarves even can have miscarriages, which causes an unhappy thought for the mother but not for the father.

Some fortresses seem to have a higher fertility rate than others.

==Babies==

When children are born, they are looked after by their parents, who will continue working, leaving the baby in the workshop if they go to get materials. It is thought that babies sharing a tile with their parents always lie down, not the parent. Babies do not have to be born in [[bed]]s, but are born wherever the mother happens to be; the birth will interrupt the mother's current action. If the mother dies the baby will almost always head to the nearest ledge and throw itself off of it, they will continue to do this until they either die or they grow to be a child. Orphans are never adopted by other dwarves.

==Labor==
Children may not be assigned any labors, but perform some activities without any intervention:

* socialising, through arranging [[party|parties]] in [[meeting hall]]s;
* [[harvest|harvesting]] [[crops]], if the 'All dwarves harvest' order is on;
* removing [[construction]]s (such as walls, floors, ramps);
* pulling [[lever]]s;
* filling designated ponds;
* [[hauling]] items to the [[trade depot]];
* eating, drinking, and sleeping as necessary.

Children may not be assigned to the [[noble|nobility]].

==Diet==
Children seem to eat and drink with similar preferences to adult dwarves, including a preference for [[alcohol]] over plain water.

==Kidnapping==
Children are also the target of [[goblin|goblin snatchers]], who will sneak into your fortress and try to kidnap young dwarves by stuffing one in a sack and hightailing it out of there. Like stolen objects, children who are removed from the map are lost forever.

==Moods==
[[Strange mood]]s affect children in the same way as adults. [[Experience]] gained through a strange mood will lead to the dwarf having legendary skill in either [[woodcrafting]], [[bone carving]] or [[stonecrafting]], depending on the artifact made.

==Adulthood==
At the age of twelve, children become adult [[dwarf|dwarves]]. While most then become unskilled peasants, those who have successfully completed a strange mood other than possession will become legendary [[craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]]; those who help in harvesting plants throughout childhood may have built up sufficient experience points in the [[grower]] skill to become Planters.

==Dwarven parenthood==

As an oversight in programming, children's parents can become so preoccupied with finding their children that they can die of thirst. This is aimed to be fixed at a later update.

==Military Children==

Although possibly not a bug, children with military mothers will be carried joyfully into battle and usually slaughtered wholesale. Deactivating the mother's military commission may be the best idea to keep the children alive and the parents from tantrumming when a stray bolt hits the child.

[[Category:Dwarves]]

Goblin Child Snatcher

2008-05-30T20:18:44Z

Dadamh: Redirecting to Goblin

#REDIRECT [[Goblin]]

Glowing Pits

2008-05-30T20:17:18Z

Dadamh: Redirecting to Glowing pit

#REDIRECT [[Glowing pit]]

Zombie

2008-05-30T20:12:31Z

Dadamh: Redirecting to Undead

#REDIRECT [[undead]]

40d:Smoke

2008-05-30T20:02:21Z

Dadamh: Created smoke page.

Smoke is the product of [[fire]]. When items burn, they release smoke into the surrounding area.

[[Dwarves]] that inhale smoke will get unhappy [[thoughts]]. They also may get internal injuries or become unconscious. The presence of smoke means that the dwarf is also reasonably close to a source of fire, which can cause [[losing|fun]] times.

40d:Steam

2008-05-30T19:58:39Z

Dadamh: Created steam page.

Steam is created from the mixing of [[magma]] and [[water]]. This is distinct from [[mist]], a similar looking product of water falling, and [[smoke]], the product of mixing magma and anything else.

In older versions, steam would cause massive [[wound|injuries ]] and death. In v0.27.176.38c, steam is harmless but still rendered.

Another product of water and magma mixing is [[obsidian]].

How do I get my dwarves to spar and fight with different weapons

2008-05-30T19:50:38Z

Dadamh: Redirecting to Sparring

#REDIRECT [[sparring]]

40d Talk:Hammerer

2008-05-30T18:59:02Z

Dadamh: /* Arrives with Baron */

I saw it mentioned somewhere - on either the bay12 forums or elsewhere on this wiki - that if you strip a Hammerer of his hammer (mark it for dumping), he'll not pick up another one, and will 'hammer' people unarmed instead. Certainly this seems to be working for me so far; out of two prescribed 'hammerings' I've had one Carpenter come out with a bruised lower spine, and a Swordsdwarf come out unscathed (likely thanks to his chainmail). Not yet any skill in wrestling for the Hammerer either (not even dabbling). -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:56, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

:Nice find, why not add that to the article?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

==Arrives with Baron==
Can anyone verify this?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've had this happen recently; that is, the hammerer and baron arriving together. I've only had a baron arrive once, however, so this is hardly conclusive. Also this baron promptly ruined the fort with his 'economy' and 'coin' and other seditious ideas, but that's beside the point.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Your first fortress

2008-05-30T18:50:45Z

Dadamh: /* Your surrondings */

=Other=
===== Content from [[Getting started]] =====
The goal of this page is to explain in detail, and for newbies, how to:
#Generate a world (possibly from a seed)(probably will link to article(s) on the topic)
#Pick a fortress location
#Name your fortress and starting group
#Buy skills and items, for the biome type picked in #2 (probably will give the newbie build from the [[starting builds]] page)
#Play the first month or two of the game, for the biome type picked in #2
I don't know how to write an article that does this, but I do know that this is what this article should be.<br>
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

I'd like to avoid having an overabundance of tutorial articles again. It sounds to me like all of the above would fit into [[Your first fortress]] just as easily. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:00, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:Should we go ahead and just #redirect it?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:14, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

===== Recording a Movie =====
I was thinking that someone could record a movie following the steps given here, as a visual aid. As DF is very structure-based it would help to visualize how the fortress is supposed to look. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 15:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

=Choosing a location=
==Your surrondings==
=====Have to be in contact with dwarves?=====
"You will want to be in contact with dwarves to get immigrants and a dwarven trading caravan."

Is it even possible to settle somewhere <i>without</i> dwarves? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:18, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

:Nope. Even on a volcanic island on the opposite side of the map from any dwarven mountainhome, caravans visited. It's worth noting that the local map was all land, but still they took ships over to get to the island itself, I suppose.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:49, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

=Buying Skills and Items=
==Skills==
===== Skill choices =====
I know skill choices are largely a matter of preference, but the inclusion of a Bookkeeper, Manager, Expedition Leader, and Broker in the landing party definitely merit a mention, as well as whether or not a beginning player should throw a few skill points at improving his Broker's and Leader's key skills. Being able to talk that first dwarven caravan into throwing some extra sides of meat in could mean the difference in survival for a newer player.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I agree with this. When I make a new Caravan, I often make a Leader-type with ONLY leader/trade related skills. Even just having the ability to SEE the values of the items (even if you have them memorized) helps aid in making a good first-year trade session. And the first-year Dwarven caravan doesn't expect a large profit. I've done large deals with them that only netted them a 10-coin profit. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:45, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I think good bridging points are the seasons and end of the years; To aid readability and to separate into chunks, I think a listing of 'things to accomplish by winter', 'things to accomplish by spring (your first immingants!)', that sort of thing -- To avoid having a gigantic page, it might be better to split them off into "your first year", "your second year", especially because the gameplay changes signifiantly when you start getting nobles and your construction focus starts to shift from mere survival into making your dwarves happy, trading, and onward to economy and such. If people are interested in taking this approach, I'd certainly help with the writing. [[User:Bhodi|Bhodi]] 13:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Current skill list could be improved. Gem setter? Just wait for immigrant... Starting points can be spent in better ways. Mechanic/architect won't have time for architecture if he has well-planned day. Woodcutting goes up really quick. 4 points in axedwarf will give you enough active defense for everything that isn't strong enough to force you to lock all dwarves underground. Weaponsmith isn't really needed at start. Your unskilled dwarves aren't good fighters, and this 20-40% damage won't change much. Proficient in herbalism is too much. It's either only to bootstrap aboveground farming or to replace it entirely (for starting fortresses) in which case you don't need grower skill. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:35, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Speaking of gem setters, they're completely worthless because it takes more time to stud 300 exceptional mugs with gems than it takes to make 300 masterwork mugs. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:50, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::Hey now, the point of gem setting (after you've gotten a legendary one of course) isn't to stud your mugs, its to decorate those statues/thrones/tables/doors for the king or just general enjoyment of the fortress. Its not like you need gems or gem-studded objects for trade, buying out caravans is so trivially easy without that. And if you're going to stud a tradegood with gems, stud something with more intrinsic value than a mug - even a masterwork one isn't worth all that much.
::More generally on skills, i've been finding that once you get comfortable with the game you want to load up on skills that are harder to level up. I haven't even been starting with miners my last couple games, leveling miners is pretty easy. I often grab dwarves who can do one to two of the following: Carpentry, Building Design, Masonry, Mechanics, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith. After that, choose one of Clothier or Glassworker (and possibly grab some related profession skills). Make sure one dwarf has leader skills (I prefer 1 in each of Negotiator/Appraiser/Judge Intent/Persuader/Consoler). Combine these as you see fit (though I generally combo Architect/Mason and make my Mechanic my broker/trader/bookkeeper/hopefully leader). And make sure to get a Brewer/Grower to handle your food needs (starting with a trained cook I find to be less important than a trained brewer). Anything left I put into other possibly useful and hard to train skills - gem cutter or setter being most typical. The real trick is suitably micromanaging the 'easy-train' necessary jobs to avoid polluting your desired mood skill before the first wave of immigrants arrive. I've also been starting with an anvil most of the time too, and crafting my axe (and sometimes my picks, although you don't save much doing that).
::Which isn't to say beginners shouldn't start with some experienced miners and so forth. But the herbalist is wholely unnecessary (I've only above ground farmed once, and that was for dye plants and 4 years in). It would be more worthwhile to recommend they start in an area with a soil layer to make underground farming easier (and soil layers seem to be pretty common). But the starting advice recommends so much food that the only difficulty is figuring out how to irrigate, not having the time to do so before they run out of food. Finally, defensive skills are overrated. You want defense? That's what the mechanic is for. Stonefall traps are far more reliable than a military dwarf, and won't take ages getting into position, be sleeping/eating/drinking when you need them, or take an unlucky hit and die instead of finishing the critter. Far too much of a gamble, especially for a new player. (Kobold thieves are easily dealt with by drafting everyone within a small radius, or just letting it run away if only one dwarf is nearby - they won't try to engage your dwarves once spotted - or by dogs for that matter).
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:31, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a concern that fisherdwarf is a suggested skill. If you are along a river or ocean, chances are any fisherdwarves will be horribly mauled by deadly carp and longnose gar. Fish are deadly enough to any dwarves getting a drink from a river without tempting fate by actually fishing. One dwarf dying along a river creates a deadly cycle of dwarves attempting to loot the body and then being killed by fish.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 14:19, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

===== Dwarf with appropriate skills not necessarily the leader =====
I used a skill assignment similar to those recommended here and my presumptive leader with mining/judge of intent/consoler/appraiser/record-keeper/organizer was passed over for the weaponsmith/armorsmith. He was assigned outpost leader, manager, trader, and bookkeeper despite not having a single appropriate skill. And to really rub it it in, one of his traits is "never speaks out or attempts to direct activities." At least I was able to switch the jobs other than leader back to the right dwarf for the job (and I'm forcing the smith to smooth stone all day for his presumption.) One other factor that may have been involved is that the smith is friends with 5 others and the intended boss-dwarf has but one friend and one grudge. --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:12, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

==Items==
=====Huh?=====
Is this still up to date? In the newest version of DF, you don't seem to spend money on skills, but rather use points from a collective pool. There doesn't seem to be enough points to even come close to creating the suggested group. I've never actually played a game (hence my consultation of the "first fortress" page), so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something, though. Any advice? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind... I just realized I needed to remove items from the pool first. Maybe a note that you have to hit Tab to get to the items page would help? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

=Beginning the Fortress=
==Intro==
===== Wall of text =====
I think the "Beginning the Fortress" section isn't very pleasant to read. The bullet points help a bit, but I think numbered ones (matching the "TOC" above it) would be a bit more helpful. I'd however prefer to split the steps using numbered headlines, then it'd clearly define each step and automatically be indexed at the top. Thoughts? --[[User:TwoD|TwoD]] 13:03, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:That's beyond me, but anyone who can should feel free to clean it up and make it as readable as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Trading ==
=====Anvil=====
The caravan is by no means guaranteed to bring an anvil the first year. (Out of ten games started and played through first year, I think I've gotten an anvil twice.) You can request one from the liason, though. I'd edit the entry myself, but I'm not certain how to word it without totally changing that whole paragraph.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:41, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I think that Humans always bring an anvil or two, but I may be wrong. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 17:02, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:: You are not correct, Memo. I've had fortresses that have gone anvil-less for 2 years before a Dwarven Caravan finally brought one (brought three, actually). Edit: The first year's caravans (Fall Dwarven, Spring Elven, and Summer Human) are largely randomized. I've seen vastly different products being brought in on all three of those, with roughly similar settlements and trade requests. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)

===== Trading vs Growing=====
Is it just me, or is it much easier to teach people how to trade for food than it is to farm/grow/brew? I find one dedicated stonecrafter is more than enough to purchase all the food that can be possibly thrown at you, and will likely even be legendary by the time the second trade caravan comes along. For a "newb strategy" this might be the way to go instead of trying to explain floodgates and channels right off the bat. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yeah, but you're forgetting something. If a trade caravan gets ambushed or if they don't sell anything to you, then you're in trouble. And of course, trading with an Elf is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
My recommendation is to get food three ways;
1) Grow Plump Helmet
2) Fish
3) Kill animals for meat.[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

::Eeeeeexcept you don't know how to properly trade with the elves. As a general rule of thumb, if it once lived, don't sell it to them. Silk is fine, buy shit from the elves using the *cave spider silk sock*s you made from the dwarves' cave spider silk cloth that you bought with your *cat meat roast [40]*. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:16, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Alternately, trade them craploads of stonecrafts. I mean, there are two ways to clear a fortress of excess stone (stone blocks and stonecrafts), and one of them provides tradegoods, so stonecraft like mad. You'll get nice clean hallways too. Mechanisms would almost work, except they can't be binned. They're also a great early trade good, but elves will complain about the weight - you can unload a couple on the elves generally though if you clear them out (supplemented by lighter things, like... stonecrafts). Mechanisms are far better for doing things like buying metal bars and an anvil off the dwarf caravan, because they're more value/mass than those are.
:::You can also unload all those Narrow Giant Spider Silk loincloths you'll start collecting on elves, just make sure to check for blood spatters - elves don't like those too much.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:20, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

===== Office not required to meet with liaison =====
I met him in my barracks with no office built. :) --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
:I confirm. When I forgot to assign office to my Exp leader, he conducted meeting with liaison at meeting hall (designated from well)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

::I also confirm, my leader's thoughts included 'was embarassed to hold a meeting in a dining room'.--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 13:35, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Despite having built an office for him, he refused to use it while he was still an expedition leader - and received no bad thought because of it. From a different game, after becoming mayor he does receive an embarassed thought if no office is assigned. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:48, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:I fixed this in the article a week ago. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 15:24, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

==Stockpiles==
===== Moving refuse stockpile inside =====
Section about stockpiles recommends moving all stockpiles inside as soon as possible. It's wrong thing as it creates miasma if not handled properly. Best thing that can be done is either making custom stockpiles - one for bones/shells/skulls (inside, near craftdwarf shop) and one for rest (outside, near tanner), designing special anti-miasma room for refuse or order dwarves to dump rotting things into water/magma/chasm etc.

You dont understand the point - if your miasma creating stuff is usually put outside, the shit hits the fan one or another way when u have the first siege or even only ambush. Made this clearer in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:36, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for an example, I store my refuge and graveyard in a nearby cave/mountain/basement. I usually make the corridors a bit more winding then usual, and I put a few doors in for an air-lock effect. a 5x5 refuge pit should be enough for the first year, and 1-3 coffins in the graveyard just in case. [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Your first fortress

2008-05-30T18:49:53Z

Dadamh: /* Have to be in contact with dwarves? */

=Other=
===== Content from [[Getting started]] =====
The goal of this page is to explain in detail, and for newbies, how to:
#Generate a world (possibly from a seed)(probably will link to article(s) on the topic)
#Pick a fortress location
#Name your fortress and starting group
#Buy skills and items, for the biome type picked in #2 (probably will give the newbie build from the [[starting builds]] page)
#Play the first month or two of the game, for the biome type picked in #2
I don't know how to write an article that does this, but I do know that this is what this article should be.<br>
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

I'd like to avoid having an overabundance of tutorial articles again. It sounds to me like all of the above would fit into [[Your first fortress]] just as easily. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:00, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:Should we go ahead and just #redirect it?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:14, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

===== Recording a Movie =====
I was thinking that someone could record a movie following the steps given here, as a visual aid. As DF is very structure-based it would help to visualize how the fortress is supposed to look. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 15:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

=Choosing a location=
==Your surrondings==
=====Have to be in contact with dwarves?=====
"You will want to be in contact with dwarves to get immigrants and a dwarven trading caravan."

Is it even possible to settle somewhere <i>without</i> dwarves? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:18, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

:Nope. Even on a volcanic island on the opposite side of the map from any dwarven mountainhome, caravans visited. It's worth noting that the local map was all land, but still they took ships over or something, I dunno.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:49, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

=Buying Skills and Items=
==Skills==
===== Skill choices =====
I know skill choices are largely a matter of preference, but the inclusion of a Bookkeeper, Manager, Expedition Leader, and Broker in the landing party definitely merit a mention, as well as whether or not a beginning player should throw a few skill points at improving his Broker's and Leader's key skills. Being able to talk that first dwarven caravan into throwing some extra sides of meat in could mean the difference in survival for a newer player.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I agree with this. When I make a new Caravan, I often make a Leader-type with ONLY leader/trade related skills. Even just having the ability to SEE the values of the items (even if you have them memorized) helps aid in making a good first-year trade session. And the first-year Dwarven caravan doesn't expect a large profit. I've done large deals with them that only netted them a 10-coin profit. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:45, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I think good bridging points are the seasons and end of the years; To aid readability and to separate into chunks, I think a listing of 'things to accomplish by winter', 'things to accomplish by spring (your first immingants!)', that sort of thing -- To avoid having a gigantic page, it might be better to split them off into "your first year", "your second year", especially because the gameplay changes signifiantly when you start getting nobles and your construction focus starts to shift from mere survival into making your dwarves happy, trading, and onward to economy and such. If people are interested in taking this approach, I'd certainly help with the writing. [[User:Bhodi|Bhodi]] 13:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Current skill list could be improved. Gem setter? Just wait for immigrant... Starting points can be spent in better ways. Mechanic/architect won't have time for architecture if he has well-planned day. Woodcutting goes up really quick. 4 points in axedwarf will give you enough active defense for everything that isn't strong enough to force you to lock all dwarves underground. Weaponsmith isn't really needed at start. Your unskilled dwarves aren't good fighters, and this 20-40% damage won't change much. Proficient in herbalism is too much. It's either only to bootstrap aboveground farming or to replace it entirely (for starting fortresses) in which case you don't need grower skill. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:35, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Speaking of gem setters, they're completely worthless because it takes more time to stud 300 exceptional mugs with gems than it takes to make 300 masterwork mugs. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:50, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::Hey now, the point of gem setting (after you've gotten a legendary one of course) isn't to stud your mugs, its to decorate those statues/thrones/tables/doors for the king or just general enjoyment of the fortress. Its not like you need gems or gem-studded objects for trade, buying out caravans is so trivially easy without that. And if you're going to stud a tradegood with gems, stud something with more intrinsic value than a mug - even a masterwork one isn't worth all that much.
::More generally on skills, i've been finding that once you get comfortable with the game you want to load up on skills that are harder to level up. I haven't even been starting with miners my last couple games, leveling miners is pretty easy. I often grab dwarves who can do one to two of the following: Carpentry, Building Design, Masonry, Mechanics, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith. After that, choose one of Clothier or Glassworker (and possibly grab some related profession skills). Make sure one dwarf has leader skills (I prefer 1 in each of Negotiator/Appraiser/Judge Intent/Persuader/Consoler). Combine these as you see fit (though I generally combo Architect/Mason and make my Mechanic my broker/trader/bookkeeper/hopefully leader). And make sure to get a Brewer/Grower to handle your food needs (starting with a trained cook I find to be less important than a trained brewer). Anything left I put into other possibly useful and hard to train skills - gem cutter or setter being most typical. The real trick is suitably micromanaging the 'easy-train' necessary jobs to avoid polluting your desired mood skill before the first wave of immigrants arrive. I've also been starting with an anvil most of the time too, and crafting my axe (and sometimes my picks, although you don't save much doing that).
::Which isn't to say beginners shouldn't start with some experienced miners and so forth. But the herbalist is wholely unnecessary (I've only above ground farmed once, and that was for dye plants and 4 years in). It would be more worthwhile to recommend they start in an area with a soil layer to make underground farming easier (and soil layers seem to be pretty common). But the starting advice recommends so much food that the only difficulty is figuring out how to irrigate, not having the time to do so before they run out of food. Finally, defensive skills are overrated. You want defense? That's what the mechanic is for. Stonefall traps are far more reliable than a military dwarf, and won't take ages getting into position, be sleeping/eating/drinking when you need them, or take an unlucky hit and die instead of finishing the critter. Far too much of a gamble, especially for a new player. (Kobold thieves are easily dealt with by drafting everyone within a small radius, or just letting it run away if only one dwarf is nearby - they won't try to engage your dwarves once spotted - or by dogs for that matter).
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:31, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a concern that fisherdwarf is a suggested skill. If you are along a river or ocean, chances are any fisherdwarves will be horribly mauled by deadly carp and longnose gar. Fish are deadly enough to any dwarves getting a drink from a river without tempting fate by actually fishing. One dwarf dying along a river creates a deadly cycle of dwarves attempting to loot the body and then being killed by fish.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 14:19, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

===== Dwarf with appropriate skills not necessarily the leader =====
I used a skill assignment similar to those recommended here and my presumptive leader with mining/judge of intent/consoler/appraiser/record-keeper/organizer was passed over for the weaponsmith/armorsmith. He was assigned outpost leader, manager, trader, and bookkeeper despite not having a single appropriate skill. And to really rub it it in, one of his traits is "never speaks out or attempts to direct activities." At least I was able to switch the jobs other than leader back to the right dwarf for the job (and I'm forcing the smith to smooth stone all day for his presumption.) One other factor that may have been involved is that the smith is friends with 5 others and the intended boss-dwarf has but one friend and one grudge. --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:12, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

==Items==
=====Huh?=====
Is this still up to date? In the newest version of DF, you don't seem to spend money on skills, but rather use points from a collective pool. There doesn't seem to be enough points to even come close to creating the suggested group. I've never actually played a game (hence my consultation of the "first fortress" page), so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something, though. Any advice? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind... I just realized I needed to remove items from the pool first. Maybe a note that you have to hit Tab to get to the items page would help? --[[User:DuckAndCower|DuckAndCower]] 23:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

=Beginning the Fortress=
==Intro==
===== Wall of text =====
I think the "Beginning the Fortress" section isn't very pleasant to read. The bullet points help a bit, but I think numbered ones (matching the "TOC" above it) would be a bit more helpful. I'd however prefer to split the steps using numbered headlines, then it'd clearly define each step and automatically be indexed at the top. Thoughts? --[[User:TwoD|TwoD]] 13:03, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:That's beyond me, but anyone who can should feel free to clean it up and make it as readable as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Trading ==
=====Anvil=====
The caravan is by no means guaranteed to bring an anvil the first year. (Out of ten games started and played through first year, I think I've gotten an anvil twice.) You can request one from the liason, though. I'd edit the entry myself, but I'm not certain how to word it without totally changing that whole paragraph.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:41, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I think that Humans always bring an anvil or two, but I may be wrong. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 17:02, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:: You are not correct, Memo. I've had fortresses that have gone anvil-less for 2 years before a Dwarven Caravan finally brought one (brought three, actually). Edit: The first year's caravans (Fall Dwarven, Spring Elven, and Summer Human) are largely randomized. I've seen vastly different products being brought in on all three of those, with roughly similar settlements and trade requests. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)

===== Trading vs Growing=====
Is it just me, or is it much easier to teach people how to trade for food than it is to farm/grow/brew? I find one dedicated stonecrafter is more than enough to purchase all the food that can be possibly thrown at you, and will likely even be legendary by the time the second trade caravan comes along. For a "newb strategy" this might be the way to go instead of trying to explain floodgates and channels right off the bat. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yeah, but you're forgetting something. If a trade caravan gets ambushed or if they don't sell anything to you, then you're in trouble. And of course, trading with an Elf is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
My recommendation is to get food three ways;
1) Grow Plump Helmet
2) Fish
3) Kill animals for meat.[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

::Eeeeeexcept you don't know how to properly trade with the elves. As a general rule of thumb, if it once lived, don't sell it to them. Silk is fine, buy shit from the elves using the *cave spider silk sock*s you made from the dwarves' cave spider silk cloth that you bought with your *cat meat roast [40]*. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:16, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Alternately, trade them craploads of stonecrafts. I mean, there are two ways to clear a fortress of excess stone (stone blocks and stonecrafts), and one of them provides tradegoods, so stonecraft like mad. You'll get nice clean hallways too. Mechanisms would almost work, except they can't be binned. They're also a great early trade good, but elves will complain about the weight - you can unload a couple on the elves generally though if you clear them out (supplemented by lighter things, like... stonecrafts). Mechanisms are far better for doing things like buying metal bars and an anvil off the dwarf caravan, because they're more value/mass than those are.
:::You can also unload all those Narrow Giant Spider Silk loincloths you'll start collecting on elves, just make sure to check for blood spatters - elves don't like those too much.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:20, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

===== Office not required to meet with liaison =====
I met him in my barracks with no office built. :) --[[User:Danny Rathjens|Danny Rathjens]] 02:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
:I confirm. When I forgot to assign office to my Exp leader, he conducted meeting with liaison at meeting hall (designated from well)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

::I also confirm, my leader's thoughts included 'was embarassed to hold a meeting in a dining room'.--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 13:35, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Despite having built an office for him, he refused to use it while he was still an expedition leader - and received no bad thought because of it. From a different game, after becoming mayor he does receive an embarassed thought if no office is assigned. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:48, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:I fixed this in the article a week ago. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 15:24, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

==Stockpiles==
===== Moving refuse stockpile inside =====
Section about stockpiles recommends moving all stockpiles inside as soon as possible. It's wrong thing as it creates miasma if not handled properly. Best thing that can be done is either making custom stockpiles - one for bones/shells/skulls (inside, near craftdwarf shop) and one for rest (outside, near tanner), designing special anti-miasma room for refuse or order dwarves to dump rotting things into water/magma/chasm etc.

You dont understand the point - if your miasma creating stuff is usually put outside, the shit hits the fan one or another way when u have the first siege or even only ambush. Made this clearer in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:36, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for an example, I store my refuge and graveyard in a nearby cave/mountain/basement. I usually make the corridors a bit more winding then usual, and I put a few doors in for an air-lock effect. a 5x5 refuge pit should be enough for the first year, and 1-3 coffins in the graveyard just in case. [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Legendary artifact

2008-05-30T18:36:51Z

Dadamh:

What are some of the things that dwarfs can make into artifacts? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:59, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Any item that your dwarves can craft and has a quality modifier can be made into artifacts. This includes armor, clothing, weapons, all kinds of crafts, furniture, cut gems and whatnot. Notable exceptions include coins(dunnae have quality modifiers), buildings(aint items) and babies(those rascals!). Bars, blocks, raw glass and other such base materials have no quality modifier and cannot be artifacts. I've never seen or heard about legendary meals, drinks and cloth/thread, so I think they can't be artifacts either. Though dwarves will say that they've eaten a legendary meal, when they've consumed a masterpiece meal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:02, 1 December 2007 (EST)
::Ive heard of someone creating a artifact meal and almost having it rot away before getting it into the food stockpile [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:00, 1 December 2007 (EST)

On #bay12games, there was some question about artifacts being destroyed by magma. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also ways to destroy artifacts which aren't listed: Trading, dumping in magma vent (the floorless bottom seems to count as chasm), and dropping a bridge on it. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:I can't imagine anything not made of a [[magma-proof]] base material *not* being destroyed by any significant immersion in magma. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:29, 20 January 2008 (EST)
::And yet because it's an artifact, it may have a special flag that prevents specifically that. Can anyone confirm non-magma-proof artifact destruction in magma? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::Nevermind. I did. Artifact mechanism melted in magma. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

== Furniture ==

All right, so what can I do with a legendary [[lace agate]] [[hatch cover]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 22 January 2008 (EST)
:<s>Same thing as 90% of Artis. Sell it or</s> Build it in a Noble's room. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:04, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Artifacts are not tradeable. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:19, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Really... that's weird then since I would swear that I sold a particularly valuable bracelet after killing off it's creator that was otherwise useless... Being that it was a good amount of time ago (possibly even pre-3D) that I actually *tried* to sell an arti, it's quite likely that time has muddled an attempt to sell into a successful sale. I suppose this somewhat nullifies my previous comment, since it's far less than 90% of artis which are buildable. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

We just endured a rather nasty goblin ambush (I'd built a nice castle but hadn't yet built a real military to go with it, so we huddled inside with the drawbridge up for a whole season while I had my dwarves equip and train a small army to "break out" with) and one of my peasants gave me the nicest present after we cleaned up; a legendary goblin bone door made out of the bones of our fallen enemies. I very much want to use this as our castle's main entrance door now. Does anyone know if an artifact's indestructibility applies to trolls and similar door-wreckers? Oh, I've got magma, so I'll make a copy of the save game and test whether magma can burn through such a thing too. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 15:30, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:It's a constructed nonterrain feature, thus it's going to be knocked down by anything that deconstructs constructions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

::Hmph. I'll put it a couple of layers deep inside my fortifications, then. Guests will pass through it but invaders will have to fight pretty hard to get there. I'll just have to be satisfied with my giant electrum drawbridge as a fancy front door. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 18:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact menu ==

I seem to recall stumbling across a list of the various legendary artifacts I had created. Can anyone tell me how to get to it again?
:If you're talking about current artifacts in a given fortress, you get a new menu option once you've produced atleast one in that fortress. (lowercase {{k|L}}) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

much better
--[[User:NateAustin|NateAustin]] 17:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Trade ==

Is it possible to trade legendary artifacts? I just got a legendary statue and it currently sitting my furniture storage. I 've tried to get my dwarves to bring it to the depot, but it doesnt show up on the trade list. Is it possible? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
:No, Artifacts are not tradeable. They will not even take them to the depot if they sit in a bin marked for trade. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Value ==
The value can be found under the artifact menur "l"
what is the maximum calue you have found on an artifact, mine is platnium high boot for 146400? --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]
:There is a thread on the forums somewhere with this specific purpose. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Finished Goods"-type Artifacts...? ==

I understand the point of furniture artifacts- they can be built and are great for nobles- but what the heck are you supposed to do with artifact rings/amulets/crowns/scepters/et cetera? I'm sitting on over 300,000 value worth of "Finished Goods" artifacts. I guess my dwarves don't like building furniture... --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]

:You could abandon the fortress and come back in adventure mode. Artifact rings? Too good! --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 11:01, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:There might be more point to those types if/when artifacts start getting special magical effects. That's probably a long ways off though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:16, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:But even in Adventure Mode, artifacts (besides weapons/armor) don't have much of a point, right? To be honest, I've never gone through Adventure Mode- ''it lags my laptop''. Sad, I know. But like BahamutZERO said, at least they'll gain some point ''eventually''... And hopefully soon. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:46, 15 May 2008 (CST)

::Well you can trade 'em to merchants in Adventure mode, I'd imagine? Maybe not, I've never tried, and I doubt the shops sell anything you'd care about (ie masterpiece steel or adamantine weapons and armor). Still, I think it's fun to walk around wearing an artifact ring or amulet! At least until an archer kills you. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:45, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell, artifact crafts/goblets/etc are used entirely for boosting your fortress created wealth stat. There is rarely a time when a sudden 200k added to that is trivial.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Dadamh

2008-05-30T17:08:23Z

Dadamh:

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers.<br>
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is an impersonal template, so some may not apply to you.
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put an empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> after each line.
* Never, ever, put a question mark in the title of a page. This is not an undoable mistake. The rule list elaborates.
* Most importantly, [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] Really. Read them.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>
Specifically, bullet #3. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:30, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
:Er, sorry about that then. I'm not exactly a veteran wiki editor. I just enjoy this game.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:08, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tim's castle building tutorial

2008-05-30T14:49:59Z

Dadamh:

Well, I didn't know that you could put apostrophies in the title! [[User:TimE|TimE]] 01:29, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:That's "apostrophes," by the way. --[[User:Savok|Savok]], representing the Spelling Guild at 09:46, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

----

Really nice tutorial; we've been needing something like this for a while.<br>
Would be better if it expressed to the young dwarves that there are other ways. For example, you tell us how to build multilevel walls. I, personally, build all of mine in a rather different way, but one that works fine too.<br>
Also, you need to read [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#I|Rule I]] sometime - specifically, "Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity." The current setup is close, but it's too big for that last image, even on 1024x768. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:46, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

----
Nice page, interesting style in the Art Of War bit. Could use standard tiles for dwarves and dogs, not the graphics tiles that required init.ini editing.

Also, and not to make it too much work, some 'in progress' shots could be helpful for newbies, despite that this is marketed as 'intermediate to advanced'.

Sort of a "Here's how you build this" section.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 10:49, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Door

2008-05-30T12:34:51Z

Dadamh: /* Dwarfs having happier thoughts about their own doors. */

== General Discussion ==

The only change I've noticed with doors so far is the placement: Locked doors no longer count as walls for door-placing purposes, and you can place a door in any unblocked space adjacent to a wall. --[[User:BehroozWolf]]

Doors seem to leak water very slowly for me - anyone else notice this? --[[User:Valdemar]]

: I've never observed doors leaking unless someone walks through them.

: Please sign your comments, guys! Four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) will insert your username and the current date. --[[User:JT|JT]] 21:49, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I've been told that levers can be attached to doors, and that they act much like floodgates with a lever attached. Might want to add something to the article about that - I haven't because I haven't confirmed this yet. [[User:Jp|Jp]] 01:35, 5 November 2007 (EST)

The article says that locked doors prevent dwarves from entering, but does that mean that hostiles can enter them? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:03, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:The doors aren't actually locked. They are just forbidden. I.e. it's not allowed for dwarves to use them. But they are still just a doors, and enemies can open them. Well... At least this is how I understand this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:24, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Creatures that can open doors cannot open forbidden doors. Trolls can open forbidden doors (by breaking them) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:27, 23 January 2008 (EST)
<br>
::"Creatures that can open doors cannot open forbidden doors" ...unless they are lockpickers. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)
LOCKPICKER Lets a creature open doors that are set to forbidden in Fortress Mode.

I may be jumping at straws, but it seems like wild animals won't go through a door that is kept tightly closed (but not forbidden). Can anyone corroborate or am I nuts? --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: I can confirm this now! Tightly closed but not forbidded will allow your dwarves to pass through, but will keep wild animals from wandering into your fort.
--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:58, 23 February 2008 (EST)

So do doors have to be locked shut to both dwarves and other animals to keep enemies out in, say, a siege? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 11:13, 17 February 2008 (EST)

:I doubt it, I'm almost certain "locked" doubles as both; "tightly closed" just forbids animals. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:51, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

:I'd actually recommend against using the animals option, as it doesn't work properly yet (33g) because the animals are pathfinding as if they're dwarves. Lots of pathing failures will wreck your FPS, and the animals will still get through the door anyways, like when a dwarf opens it. [[User_talk:Squirrelloid#Animals_try_to_path_through_tightly_closed_doors|Here]]'s a bit of testing/observation that was done and written down by Squirrelloid. I'll be posting this to a relevant discussion over in [[Talk:Maximizing_framerate]] to try and shed some more light on something that affects me drastically, and probably affects most everyone else too, even if they don't realize that it's the cause. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:23, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
::Also note this applies to nuissance (ie, hostile) animals - i've now had a crazed camel sit behind a tightly closed door waiting for a dwarf to open it and repeatedly '?' its inability to path. So its not just a 'pets' problem. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:45, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

== Doors for wagons? ==

When I move my trade depot inside, how should I allow wagons in? Do I need 3 doors next to each other? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 15:57, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

: I recommend building a (draw-)bridge 3 tiles wide over a channel, then the depot, then a second bridge further inside, to guarantee arrival of wagons (they will not enter the map if outer drawbridge is up) and still maintain fortress security. There are more elaborate options with traps, water and the like, but this one will work. I doubt wagons can cross doors, but i never tried. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:15, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

:Being that doors require a wall to be next to, you cannot create a 3-wide stretch of doors, (and yes, removing a wall will remove doors that require that wall.) In addition, doors block wagon travel ({{k|D}}), much like stairs. So on all accounts, doors are not an option. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:08, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

:Hint - blast doors. Ie, 3 floodgates connected to the same lever. You can keep them raised most of the time, and lower them as needed. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:45, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarfs having happier thoughts about their own doors. ==

Does someone know if this is true or not?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:35, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:It says something akin to "(Dwarf) has admired own fine door lately." Most "Own (item)" messages are happier than just "a(n) (item)". I'd say it's reasonable to assume, though I haven't done any research here. Not sure how one would.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 08:34, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

==Door Strength==
Has anyone tested an adamantium door against something like a colossus? One would imagine that it would stand up to ANYTHING, even a raging colossus, but a test could be handy. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:51, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Um, under 38c, I just had my door destroyed by a troll. This should probably be noted in the article. If nothing's posted in the next couple days, I'll change it myself, I guess. --Jhoosier

:It already is
::Stone, wood, and glass doors can be destroyed by the trolls which usually accompany goblin sieges
:[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:52, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an iron door. That's what I was getting at. Here's a screenshot of it: [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Image:Iron_door.JPG] (On a side note, how the heck do I embed this? Couldn't get it to do so. Ah well, it's linked to now. [[User:Jhoosier|Jhoosier]] 21:04, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

:Huh. OK. The only buildingdestroyers I've gotten were megabeasts (probably since I tend to play on tiny worlds with low goblin populations) so it'll probably be a while before I can test this for myself. This means someone else will have to get a troll and run him through some tests with the Warp utility. (or similar) I have a feeling that any buildingdestroyer can at least deconstruct any door, if not turn it into splinters.
:In the meantime, should we just drop the entire section from the page? Or just turn it into a single sentence like "trolls and some other creatures can destroy doors" [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 00:46, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

I've got a steel door up now, I'll try releasing a captured troll and see if it destroys the steel door. I don't know what everyone's experiences are with doors and door strength, so I'll leave dropping it up to smarter people.

== Bursting under water Pressure? ==

In my fort I have a door working as a flood gate that is under a fair amount of pressure. I've noticed it opening seemingly at random and was wondering whether there's a connection. It is attached to a lever and I seem to need to double pull the lever to get it to close. Anyone else notice this? <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Darthfrodo|Darthfrodo]]</small>
:Please sign your edits using <tt><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></tt>. At any rate, can you do a quick diagram of your setup using the templates for diagrams? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:07, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Bed

2008-05-30T10:41:44Z

Dadamh: /* Hospital beds? */

What are the causes of dwarves not sleeping on beds? I've made beds and rooms for my dwarves yet they just go to sleep wherever they are when they get tired. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 17:07, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Hunters never seem to use beds. If a dwarf can't afford a room when the economy is turned on, they'll sleep in a barracks, possibly on the floor there. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 19:38, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Thanks but this was a brand new fortress so no economy and it was all seven of them. And its still happening after getting first migrants. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:48, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Did you assign each dwarf to a bed? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 09:27, 6 March 2008 (EST)

You usually don't need to assign beds, they'll claim them on their own, however sometimes it will take a few sleep cycles before they do. I think it works something like this - once a dwarf has a bed, he will strongly prefer sleeping there, and will walk the extra distance to it when he gets sleepy. However, if a dwarf without a bed gets sleepy, and is a long walk from any unclaimed beds, he'll just go "Eh, screw it." and sleep on the ground. --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 09:38, 6 March 2008 (EST)

==Occupied==
It seems that dwarves will not sleep in their bed if another creature is standing on it when he 'gets sleepy'. I just started a new fortress and had temporary beds and meeting hall in the middle of a corridor. The dogs and such were standing on the beds, so 2 of my dwarves decided to sleep on the ground (they had claimed the beds last sleep cycle, and my entire fort is less than 2 screens big). --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 17:42, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hospital beds? ==

It is confirmed that dwarves use "hospital" beds in the current version?

I've had a bed set up in an area which isn't a room, nor did I create a room defined by this bed, yet a recently-injured dwarf went to "rest" in his own, normal bed. He is being given food and water, though.

:I'm not certain what you mean by "Hospital beds". However, injured dwarves that require rest will use any available bed that isn't assigned to someone else. This includes their personal bed, barracks beds, and other undesignated beds, likely in that order. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:38, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

::I mean exactly what the article says: "Toady has stated that beds which are not in any defined room are considered hospital beds, and dwarves will recover faster when sleeping on them." If dwarves recover more efficiently on these, you'd think dwarves would see them as higher-priority for resting than their own bed or a barracks bed. -- [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 21:00, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:::I've had dwarves with stately rooms opt for the old beds laying around in the dining room when they are injured. I don't know about recovery time though, it was a brainpan injury. A guy with a broken head just doesn't come back.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 06:41, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Ice

2008-05-29T19:28:37Z

Dadamh: /* Ice walls */

Should probably include some information on melting the ice, as this is a common question. [[User:Sinoth|sinoth]] 10:44, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Ice is listed as a fire-safe material, and fire-safe materials are listed as being usable for creation of magma-powered buildings. Does this mean one can make a magma forge out of ice stones? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:29, 24 November 2007 (EST)

I tryed to get water out of ice by dropping it a floor but it did not work. What am I doing wrong? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 23:49, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:It no longer seems to work as of 33d, I'm removing that part from the page [[User:Klada|Klada]] 20:55, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Regarding melting ice, I found that if you melt ice, drain it off to a 2 or 3, and then shunt the magma off somehow (happens often when magma first flows, due to ebb and flow of the magma waves) the 2-depth water will re-freeze, allowing you to re-thaw it into a 7-depth water. ... I found this out the hard way actually, since the magma waves caused successive re-thaws for the water to flood out my then-thought-to-be-way-too-big water pit. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:20, 7 January 2008 (EST)[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:20, 07 January 2008 (EST)

==Value of ICE==
What's the material value of ice? 1? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 07:51, 31 December 2007 (EST)

:Whatever ice boulders are worth I would assume. Probably 2. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 08:31, 31 December 2007 (EST)
::0 Water is free so is ice. It doesn't even have a material entry it is hard coded in the game I think. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 10:56, 31 December 2007 (EST)

== Melting without magma ==

If there is any way to melt ice without magma this would be good to know.
Are there any drinks that are "just water"? ie can I put water into a barrel and have something to drink through the winter, or do I have to get plants and brew beer / wine / rum to not die of dehydration/thirst?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:15, 10 January 2008 (EST)
:Nope, you have to brew something to store a drink in a barrel. Besides, even if you could store water, you wouldn't want to. Dwarves need alcohol, or they work much slower. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 08:44, 5 February 2008 (EST)

::Well they may work slow for a bit but at least they don't die![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:50, 6 February 2008 (EST)

== Water pit vs lake / pond ==

Does a water pit have to be a certain number of tiles, depth below ground, or overall "internal depth" (ie go a certain number of z-levels) to not freeze? ie how much of a pit do I need to not only dig, but fill, to have water in my fortress no matter what the weather is like?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:21, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:Height doesn't seem to be important. It needs to be either Inside or Below Ground to not freeze, I'm not sure which. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 08:41, 5 February 2008 (EST) Update: It's Below Ground. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 18:56, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Well my current thought is to build a wall out of ice to see it melt and irrigate my field... also, I'm building an up/down stair down a few z-levels. Once done I will work out how to drop my ice down it... yes more to do it than anything else.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:49, 6 February 2008 (EST)

== Ice walls ==

Ice Walls can be engraved. I can prove it if you like. I made the change to the article, change the wording if you want.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 06:06, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:This seems a reasonably viable way to train engravers without wasting valuable wall space in a glacial sort of map.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 15:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Outside/Above Ground ==

I made a deep channel by actually digging a tunnel (so dwarves wouldn't get stuck by channelling stupidly), so it was all inside. BUT I dug an opening through the floor on one of the corners for some reason (thought it was required for flood gate lever). Anyway, so the water in this corner was inside, but above ground. And in late autumn it froze over, just when I was thinking I would need a well there! All the other water is still intact in the channel, but with a corner of damp ice wall blocking flow. Anyway, if someone else can confirm it doesn't have to be outside to freeze! --[[User:KernelJ|KernelJ]] 10:38, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

:I don't think I follow your situation. If you mined out an L-shaped path underground for water, then dug a channel on top of the corner, that corner tile should be outside/light/above ground, unless you put some kind of construction over it. It's possible that the tile became outside, and then froze to ice, which might cause the game to claim the tile was inside/light/above ground (the game seems to report most outside impassable tiles as inside). However, even if you've got an ice wall in the corner, water should still be able to flow around it diagonally, shouldn't it? --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 12:21, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Trap

2008-05-29T18:59:45Z

Dadamh: /* Cage traps clarification */

== Cage traps clarification ==

I think I know the answer, but are ANY sort of cages suitable for trapping any kind of invading monster (except those that evade traps altogether, such as kobalds). The page mentions a glass trap catching a colossus, but will that also apply to a rickety wooden trap? I haven't produced any glass. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. I've had a bronze colossus trapped in an Ashen Cage before. I don't think creatures care what you trap them in.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== cage traps for food ==
Couldn't one generate a mild supplementary food source by putting cage traps out on the map at random? Or create rows of them to catch aggressive creatures that are chasing down a fleeing dwarf. The ability to place them on the surface has some interesting possibilities. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 04:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)

: You can really do this with any kind of trap now - I built a 1 tile wide stair/corridor up an exposed cliff face, and as I was concerned about goblins and the like I stonefall-trapped it. Ever since then some of the local wildlife has used it to get up and down the 5 z-level cliff, with predictable and hilarious results. The goats just die, but the marmots are hurled off the cliff face to splatter on the ground below. It's a nice easy meat/leather/fat source, as well as being entertaining "Dwarfy McDwarf cancels reload stone trap - interrupted by (flying) hoary marmot" [[User:Acama|Acama]] 19:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==berserk dwarves==
Will berserk dwarves set off pressure plates? Toady mentioned he was going to stop that from happening [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On a possibly related note, pets CAN set off traps. Although in my experience the pet has to be falling unconscious to do so. [[User:Anonymousphrase|Anonymousphrase]] 22:43, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

[[image:Pet_setting_off_trap.png]]

It may also be the case that you can also get pets killed by a trap if they're in the square when a hostile sets off the trap. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 12:42, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

==flooding a spiked pit==
Will flooding a spiked pit break or cancel the spike trap? I'd test this, but I don't have the channel dug in yet. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:confirmed that flooding doesn't affect spear/spike traps. [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 17:52, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure the "corpse stuck in trap" chance is 50%, according to Toady either on IRC or some forgotten forum post a few months back. I really can't remember for sure. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:31, 10 November 2007 (EST)

==cage traps/ fire imps==
I've secured the entries oy my magma furnaces with cage traps, but it seems that the fire imps just walk through.
Just as the Giant moles did. How so? --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
:supposedly there is a bug that causes any creatures on the map when it is generated to count as residents, and thus know where your traps are and not trigger them. I've never run into the problem myself, but I've never specifically tested for it so I can't really say for sure if it still exists (or ever did). --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 07:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:I had read about this and tried it out with a trapped coridoor next to my magma vent - an imp I tempted out walked right through 4 cage traps and 4 stonefall traps without triggering them. Seems like indigenous life is currently trap-immune. Most magma creatures can be dealt with by a few marksdwarves though, so you're only in serious trouble if you have a herd of skeletal hippos on your map on embark.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 15:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::There's always the menacing spike + lever combo. And pits. [[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 16:08, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm planning on making the only passage to my fortress filled with cage traps, but I'm not sure if dwarves going out and migrants and traders coming in will be affected by them. Does anyone know? Also, do trolls smash goblin cages? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Only hostile units will trigger traps. Trolls only smash buildings and after a goblin is captured the cage is not built. So the answer to your second question is no. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 21:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Make sure to forbid the traps when the siege starts. Otherwise your dwarves will rush out to reload them and store all the cages. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:53, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Is it possible that Kobold thieves/Goblin master thieves can also trigger traps? I think I killed one and caged another master thief in the past. Maybe the quality of the mechanism is important here? --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:goblin thieves, both regular and master, have always triggered traps -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:18, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

::So why does the article then say "Sneaking enemies do not trigger traps"? Goblin master thieves seem very sneaky to me. --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:33 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:::once goblin thieves are revealed they are captured fine. even revealed kobolds dont trigger. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: At least "normal" goblin thieves are scewered fine without being detected, says my weapon trap --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: I have to agree with Koltom, I got an "Ambush" event when a goblin (master) thief went into a cage trap, and had another one cut to pieces by a serrated disc, which I only noticed when suddenly all my dwarves rushed off to remove his clothes. --[[User Quertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:31 (UTC+1)
:::: Weapon traps apparently have a chance of friendly fire. At least, that's what the ghost of my Kitten(tame) told me... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 18:48, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== Crossbow Trap? ==

How does a crossbow trap work? Does it have line of sight, like a Dwarf? {{Unsigned|Lordmick134}}

Ranged weapons in weapon traps work much the same as melee weapons do, attacking the creature which triggered the trap. The only real difference in functionality seems to be that they require and use up appropriate ammunition, and (according to the article) do not get occasionally stuck and need cleaning like melee weapons in a weapon trap do. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 21:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Trapping cave dwellers ==

Has anyone sucessfully caged a cave dwelling megabeast? I have tried on two seperate maps to capture a minotaur and an ettin, both times the monster just run right through the cage traps. Perhaps creatures that are spawned on embark are bugged immune to traps?

40d Talk:Bronze colossus

2008-05-29T18:55:12Z

Dadamh:

Has anyone managed to see if the collossii still drop nice statues when you kill them with crossbows? --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:54, 8 November 2007 (EST)

They should no matter how you kill them. But I have verified that they still can slaughter about anything and toss it across the screen. And go through an entire army while only getting a scratch on the arm. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 16:45, 2 December 2007 (EST)

Good god, I've just lost three champions, two axe lords, and a swordmaster along with about twenty assorted soldiers and guards to one of these guys. And he heals himself. --[[User:Neatoburrito|Neatoburrito]] 15:38, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Should it be noted that if you can trap a colossus (via channels filled with water or similar) you can train marksdwarves VERY quickly by using it as a target (since it has no vitals to pierce and heals fast enough to overcome the damage from a couple of attackers). --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)

In an unfortunate pit fight mishap (I guess maybe megabeasts escape when you try to dump them into a pit?), I had one of these guys rampage through my base. My quite impressive army of champions put an end to it with not a single scratch on them. The only casualty other than the BC was a war dog who gave his life to save the poor Siege Engineer who was transporting the colossus to the pit. The SE went berserk later due to his injuries though :-(. Watching the whole thing with combat messages on was quite fun! --[[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 03:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Is it even possible to defeat one of these things without a military? I let it out of a cage for practice for my wrestler recruits (in retrospect, a bit dumb) and it proceeded to slaughter eighty dwarves and end my fortress. I recruited everyone in the fortress and he just slung them all into walls until they died.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:55, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Social skills

2008-05-29T18:36:06Z

Dadamh:

After having some of his masterwork crafts stolen by rhesus macaques, my legendary stonecrafter predictably threw a tantrum. However then he went to attend a meeting with the expedition leader, who is a novice pacifier and consoler. After the meeting he calmed down, and his thoughts later showed "He yelled at somebody in charge lately and felt a little better afterward" and "He cried on somebody in charge lately and felt better afterward". Is this what these two skills are used for? --[[User:Harakka|Harakka]] 08:07, 25 November 2007 (EST)

:I am sure that my mayor once became a dabbling pacifier after being yelled at. Not sure about consoler. It also depends on the yelling dwarf's personality as I saw a dwarf who "disliked authorities" with a thought like "He cried on somebody in charge lately but felt only worse". You can probably skill your leader/mayor up by having lots of tantruming dwarves :) And a legendary pacifier would probably cheer your tantruming dwarves all the way to ecstatic in a few seconds :) --[[User:Another|Another]] 08:48, 25 November 2007 (EST)

::I'd THINK that a consoler would either be the skill used for grieving dwarves (Don't worry, it's okay that the Boss accidentally locked your fiancee and infant child in the demonic pit chamber) or for fairly unhappy dwarves. Speculation of course, I've not had my mayor do these things yet. Of course, I have no idea what it is if pacifier is ALSO used when the mayor gets yelled at by extraordinarily unhappy dwarves. Who knows [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 12:39, 25 November 2007 (EST)

===Gaining Social Skills===
Is it just me, or do ALL dwarves seem to be learning social skills now? It may have to do with the enhanced relationship systems in the latest release, but my dwarves have social skills now. In fact, ''every dwarf in the fortress'' is at least a Dabbling Intimidator/Consoler/Negotiator/Coversationalist/Judge of Intent/Persuader/Pacifier/Comedian.

Sounds like my dwarves are having conversations... and that this gives them social skills. Fun!

:And it also gets them stat upgrades for skillpoints, most of my craft/peasant hauler population spends a lot of time chatting around the tower-cap wagon, and they are all tough/agile/strong/mighty (or more than one :P) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:15, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

::So, learn from the game, kids: spend time talking around the water cooler, and you'll become a bulked-up super-dwarf without ever having to do any real work. Yay for laziness! [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 05:06, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:::If the kids are learning their lifestyles from DwarfFortress, laziness is the last thing I will worry about. I don't want to start seeing !!Co-Worker!!s walking caually around setting things on fire.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:My fortress is filled with dwarves who know only how to talk... It was pretty hard to find unexperienced dwarf to make him captain. When children are strong, tough and agile before they even grow up (and I have "farmers only harvest" option set) and competent in 5 skills there's something wrong. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:47, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

::You must not have many dwarves milling about then, Someone-else. It's not unusual in most forts I run (which focus on key players) to have legendary social skills for the children by the time they grow up. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:05, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tame

2008-05-29T18:12:17Z

Dadamh:

Do we know for sure that if an animal that kills a dwarf is tamed, it can still kill your dwarves?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:42, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
:It's been confirmed in talk for cages and captured creatures. Any creature that has killed any civilized creature will start killing dwarves on release.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:12, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Dungeon master

2008-05-29T18:11:01Z

Dadamh:

Anyone know what triggers the dungeon master now? I have absolutely NO coins whatsoever and he just showed up at the start of my 4th spring. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 11:54, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a point to the image? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:38, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I think it's there to show what skills the Dungeon Master starts with. Putting the same in plain text would work better, methinks. --[[User:Zirik|Zirik]] 03:08, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::My oppinion also. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:45, 10 November 2007 (EST)

He showed up here in summer 1055 with the 'normal'/standard skill level in those four skills mentioned in the article (Animal Trainer, Animal Caretaker, Furnace Operator, Metal Crafter). I've got no coins either. Created wealth was around 70k, around 60-70 dwarves. Maybe it's the number of pets? I have 123.--[[User:SL|SL]] 00:43, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:Probably not. I got him in 1054 with no more than 25 animals, and had passed 70k wealth long ago so that wasn't it either. Number of dwarves? 1054 would have been the first year after I hit 50 dwarves, which might be the case with yours as well. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 01:36, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:When I got him, I had 57 dwarves. The requirement is probably 50 dwarves, we all have that number in common. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:19, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I dont think the requirement is 50 dwarves, i have the dungeon master arrive when i was nearing the 80 Mark, and had a wealth of around 200k. --[[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 20:48, 15 November 2007 (EST)
::Were you nearing the 80 mark BEFORE or AFTER the migration when he showed up? A requirement of 50 dwarves to trigger him would mean you would probably have 70+ dwarves by the time he actually arrives, since he generally shows up at the same time as 20 other immigrants.
:::It was before the migration ofcourse, ill try it again when i have time [[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 14:44, 17 November 2007 (EST)
:My numbers were 68 dwarves (I went from 36 to 60+ in the last wave), roughly 2.7M in wealth (and I'd been over 1M for years) in year 1056 with a moderate number of pets and no coins. I'd also dug to the deepest level the first year, in case folks were considering that as a criterion. I have fought numerous slugmen, goblins and kobolds, but nothing exotic (I had to reload after the dragon arrived and burned everything down). Bear in mind that if there's a pop requirement, then it's important how many you have before the DM arrives, but it's equally important how many you had before the ''previous'' wave. Those numbers form the bounds. So if you had 80 before the DM arrived, but 31 of them arrived or were born in that last wave, then this will have been the first time the caravan saw you with 50+ pop. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 01:56, 20 November 2007 (EST)

I think his arrival might be related to your stored animals. He seems to arrive for me whenever I get my first goblin in a cage trap. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:04, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:I just had this happen again. My pop. went from 57 to 80 or so and it was the first wave after I had captured a dragon and some goblins. [[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 09:22, 24 December 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that he does NOT arrive simply at 50 dwarves. Just got an immigration wave that raised my pop from 52 to 60, and no DM.
--[[User:Tyrving|Tyrving]] 02:56, 22 December 2007 (EST)

How about using skill names that are shown in the game? For example armor crafting -> Armorsmith , weapon smithing -> Weaponsmith and so on. Its a bit confusing now with blacksmithing and all.

Have you considered that the DM has /a percentage based chance of arriving once you fortress reaches the population of 50?/ --[[User:Hamenopi|Hamenopi]] 07:13, 17 January 2008 (EST)

I had about 53 dwarves then an immigration wave took me up to 62 but it wasnt until the next wave which gave me 81 that I got him also in requirements says you need to discover hidden site feature, but i havent discovered anything yet. Imported wealth is 128245 Exported is 682 Created wealth is 429483 and on the off chance his arrival is related to animal numbers i have 5 trained and 21 others [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:26, 19 January 2008 (EST) - I hadnt caught anything in a trap but i had nicked a cougar from the elves. Also I'd smithed a massive amount of gold and copper as well as some silver reckon it might be related to that? [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 07:49, 19 January 2008 (EST)

I snagged the DM right as my population hit 80. I have >700K wealth (got lucky with artifacts), and hardly any jobs (as Economy requires), so I would imagine it's either a population thing, or a mix of things including population.

Here's a bit of fun to smash pretty much all the speculation so far... I've had over or around 100 dwarves for the past year or two (at 142, now), I've captured goblins, I've captured and trained vermin, I've trained war dogs, I have no coins (though we seem to know that isn't a requirement), and I have
over a million in fortress wealth. Also, nearly half a million in imported wealth. I'm fairly certain none of the previously discussed conditions are the requirement. I'm wondering if it really is 'dungeon feature' related. The only thing I haven't had is greater beasts (unless a single Titan counts).<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>

:A titan certainly would count, but that's not the 'map feature' that's required. Do you have magma, chasm, cave water, pits and/or a cave? Those might be what's the trigger, if you don't have any of those, then perhaps one (or more than one) is the trigger? I've gotten a DM without any invasions or sieges and an equally impressive amount of wealth in and out (turned off invasions cause I was tired of getting attacked while I was moving from my initial dig-in to an ideal spot). Mine came before 50 (a kid being born took me to 51,) and he came with the last migration before the birth. My site has magma, a brook, and pits. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:42, 27 January 2008 (EST)

::I have none of those, that I've found, so it might be one of those. I'm wishing I'd known about how to identify magma on the embark screen prior to doing this, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pits or magma, or maybe just any feature that has monsters. [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 05:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:::Don't feel too bad, as you could consider it cheating to know what you're going to get... Us 'cheaters' will quickly call it time-saving or whatnot instead ;) Check out Regional Prospector if you haven't, and don't mind crossing that grey line. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:43, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Hm, the DM just arrived after 68 Dwarves, 380k Wealth and no map feature whatsoever. [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 17:40, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:So you're in an area that you've revealed, and has nothing previously mentioned? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:19, 29 January 2008 (EST)

DM just arrived at 66 dwarfs, can't think of any map feature i have/discovered (no magma, chasm, cave, cave water, pit - however, i do have an ordinary river). I traded with the elves for a tiger, elk, camel and crocodile just before, but i already had other animals like leopard and saltwater crocodile. I have lots of animals (79), lots of war dogs (65). wealth 1818000. export 40700. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:20, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

hmm... my dungeon master is wearing a hood, cloak, mittens and nothing else xD [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 16:49, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

In my experience, DM arrives around the fifty to sixty dwarf mark, usually in the second year. I rarely have wealth over about 100k by this time. However, I generally have a lot of cages and traps about. Maybe that's what it is?--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:11, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Farming

2008-05-29T17:36:54Z

Dadamh: /* Greenhouse */

== Farming in Winter ==

It appears that farm plots now have a menu for farming in the winter. Has anyone done this yet? --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:42, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Sounds like winter farming works fine. It's probably part of the general streamlining of temperature and whatnot (why would a tropical winter be worse than a glacial summer, underground?) --Doomclown

::Spider Webs do not seem to depend on being near the water or farms now. Most I have seen appeared in a narrow valley on the outside of the mountain. --Silveron

:::Winter farming is working fine, I've farmed Plump helmets whole winter. No starved dwarves for me! --[[User:UltimaPhantom|UltimaPhantom]] 15:25, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Farming aboveground issue ==

You're allowed to build aboveground farm plots on areas where you can't actually plant seeds, but it doesn't tell you this. Basically you have to make sure farm plots outdoors are built on biomes that have at least some vegetation (shrubs, grass doesn't count) in order for your dwarves to actually plant the seeds you set. Trying to farm on a mountain biome or any other that is listed with "Other Vegetation: None" will end up with the plot just being ignored. And there are now often multiple biomes in any given fortress map, as seen on the site selection menu when you start a fort. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 21:23, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Farming in the winter is handy now, but does any one know what it means when the plant type in the farm (when you pick out what yave our going to grow) is red? It won't let me grow it! --Comment by [[User:Rock n Rat|Rock n Rat]] and copy-edited by [[User:Savok|Savok]] due to its high level of unreadability

::When the name is red, that means that, for whatever reason, that crop cannot be planted at that time. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:53, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::This is most likely because it is late winter, and any seeds planted at that point won't have time to grow by the end of the year. It doesn't take into account the fact that the crops may still be growable in the spring as it does with the other seasons; something about the new year throws it off. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 10:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Mixed Plots ==

The following paragraph contradicts itself a couple times, which is the correct behavior? <blockquote>
The farm plot should be either entirely above ground or entirely subterranean. A mixed-class farm plot will allow you to choose any crop for planting, but the chosen crop will be planted only on tiles capable of growing it. Worse, planters will not skip over the infertile tiles, leaving the rest of the plot fallow whether it can support the crop or not.</blockquote>[[User:Amstrad|Amstrad]] 17:07, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:I think what it means is that the planter will plant until he reaches a tile incapable of growing, the stop completely. Let's say you have a 1x8 plot, and tile 3 is not capable of growing the crop. Tiles 1 and 2 will be planted, but the farmer will stop at 3. He will not skip over it and continue planting tiles 4-8. It is not contradictory, but should be reworded. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 13:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:What the writer mean by "mixed plot" is if you build a plot underground and open the roof in some place. The area(s) where you don't have roofing anymore will be considered as above ground, and the rest will still be considered by the game to be underground. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:09, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Food Hauling caveat ==

It was suggested that stone and wood hauling be turned off during planting season to prevent starvation. It seems more prudent to me that in case of eminent starvation to turn off FOOD HAULING so all the hungry dwarves can swarm the previously tasked foods. Then turn it back on and let them continue taking their time getting it to where it needs to be. Is this a bad idea? ~~

== Flowchart ==

That's got to be the most complicated possible way to present that information, which is already covered in a much clearer table on the [[crops]] page. It would also be horribly intimidating to the newbies. No offense to whoever took the time to make this monstrosity, but I think it should be axed, or at the least moved to the more relevant crops page. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 23:25, 28 November 2007 (CST)

:You say it like Dwarf Fortress itself is not horribly intimidating. No offense taken, but, then again, farming is one of the most complicated aspects of the game and I spent quite some time trying to wrap my mind around it's quirks.
:I made this illustration to help me plan workshops chaining, optimize hauling and quickly evaluate gathered shrubs. Tabular data on the [[Crops]] page serves great as a reference, but not so much as an aid in designing processes. Besides, some people like me comprehend such visual form of information easier.
:This diagram is already linked on [[Crops]] page, and if people deem that image describing in detail farming workflow doesn't belong to [[Farming]] page, so be it. [[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 02:49, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:It's seems a great flowchart to me, especially the way it's linked in the corner so it doesn't dominate the page. Well done for creating it. [[User:Djp|Djp]] 05:46, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:: I appreciate the flowchart, and find it more useful for contemplating the system-as-a-whole than the table on Crops. Table's good for detail, bad for seeing relationships & alternatives, like "What are all the crops that I can use to make fabric?". [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:: Hah, I seem to be in the minority, if indeed there's even one other person who agrees with me. Fair enough. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 15:38, 28 November 2007 (CST)

== Re-Irrigation ==

I noticed that my unused farms, after a time, will show "No seeds available for this location". There doesn't seem to be anything on this wiki to talk about this. I later found out (by loo{{K|k}ing around}) that this is because the tiles underneath the plot were no longer muddy. Shouldn't there be a section to warn players that even active farms have some de-muddified tiles (farmers no longer walk on them, to muddify them), that should periodically be irrigated? --[[User:Akel Desyn|Akel Desyn]] 10:24, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Red crops ==
We should try to figure out once and for all what the reddened crops mean. The two most popular explanations I see floating around are either that there are not enough days left in the season to grow it and that the farm is not fertile enough. My testing has shown that it is neither. In late autumn (13 Timber, not enough time to grow anything) cave wheat and pig tails red out, while quarry bushes do not. Quarry bushes can't be grown in winter either, so something weird is going on. It's not fertility either, because the plots that have had nothing grown on them redden out at exactly the same time as the ones constantly used. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:05, 27 December 2007 (EST)

:I remember reading somewhere that farmers have to have experience with a crop dying from being planted too late in a season before they know when it's too late to plant it. Sounds implausible, but I wouldn't put it past Toady to implement it that way. Had your farmers ever planted quarry bushes "too late" before your test?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:I've never planted quarry bushes at that fortress. Now that I think of it, I don't think I had any rock nuts at all. That's probably it. Crops only redden out if you have the seeds for them. I'll start a test fortress with no pig tails or something and see if I can confirm this. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 09:21, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::I've confirmed this. Crops red out if there are not enough days left in the season, but do NOT red out if you have no seeds. In my test, I brought rock nuts and plump helmet spawn only. In late summer, sweet pods did not redden out. In late autumn, only quarry bushes reddened out. However, I noticed another oddity. Quarry bushed reddened out when there were less than 25 days left until winter, even though they take 41 days to grow! I need to test whether they will wilt when planted between 41 and 25 days left. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::This is strange. It reddened out after I selected it and let it run for a game day (there were 39 days left in the season). Maybe the trigger for reddening is trying to plant it, not having seeds. This definitely needs more testing. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:41, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::: plants will red out if there is not enough time for them to grow in this season ''and'' they can't be grown in the next season (Otherwise they are just transferred to the next season). ''Dark'' red means there are still seeds on the plot of that plant. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:38, 4 March 2008 (EST)

==Fertilisation==
So you can choose to fertilise your plots with potash. How long does this last? How much more crop does a fertilised plot produce and if I fertilise more than once in short succesion, does it produce even more? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 17:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
And what does ''seas fert'' option mean?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:48, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:seas fert - seasonal fertilization? - auto fertilize every season?

I cant fertilize my indoor clay loam plot (probably not needed) - will now check silt. Muddy rock seems to work? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:IIRC, adds +3 to crop yield. I may be wrong. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:06, 21 February 2008 (EST)

==Greenhouse==

To my experience, the ceiling on a "greenhouse" can be made out of anything, my rock salt greenhouses work just fine. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:This is accurate. Floors of any variety let in light, even though dozens of levels of flooring. You can have an 'above ground' farm hundreds of feet underground.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:36, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Water

2008-05-29T17:30:47Z

Dadamh:

I dug into a Murky pool, all 7's, drained out 8 squares of 7's into my reservoir to irrigate my farm, then closed the floodgate up. The murky pool was mixed 6's and 7's. After winter, it froze over, and in Spring melted back into all 7's again. Apparently they can refill themselves. It did snow on top of the pool. Perhaps the snow melted and got it wet? --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 20:36, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, if there's any water in the pool then they will freeze into ice walls. When the ice wall melts, it will always melt to depth 7, irrespective of how much water the ice was originally formed from. It is unaffected by snowfall, so if your murky pool ever completely dries out, it will never refill, even if you get lots of rain or snow. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

Do fish really flop around after you drain a pool? This didn't happen for me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:08, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know what the water output of a brook is? As in, does it fill a 1-width channel any faster or slower than a river?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Has anyone else seen stagnant water spontaneously appear beside a still? I had it happen twice, I swear that the still is leaking. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 02:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Likely, a dwarf for some reason dumped out a bucket or waterskin nearby. It tends to happen when you get job cancellations while filling a well or taking water to a prisoner or injured dwarf.--[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 06:58, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Evaporation ==

I notice that evaporation isn't covered here or in [[Magma]], and I think it might be a useful topic. My observation is that depth 1 fluids can evaporate if left alone. This means that you can get rid of arbitrary amounts of fluid simply by spreading it out enough, or by using a multiple-floodgate lock system to meter measured quantities of fluid out over a chamber floor. In my experience, evaporated water leaves behind mud, whereas evaporated magma leaves behind nothing. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Magma... evaporates? Could be true – this is DF, after all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bend bugs ==

Should we add a section about the u-bend bug?

I've just managed to make a V-bend that can absorb infinite water as well as the U-bend that creates it. Basically I used ramps to create a dip in a pipe trying to make a u-bend, and when I poured a full murky pool into it I ended up with only the bottom three squares full of water. I then got a real u-bend going from another pond and as much as it poured into a pool the v-bend absorbed it all.

Can anyone reproduce? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] ([[User talk:Ikkonoishi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ikkonoishi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>

The u-bend is notorious, but never heard or ran into a "v-bend" before.
A (side) diagram of your v-bend would be helpful in reproducing.
As for pages, I'd say no, since they shouldn't end up being around a long time, but who knows. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:13, 1 February 2008 (EST)
: I was going to do one but couldn't figure out how to make the ramps. I'll just use \.

Water went in. --> ~.~########
~.~.~### <--- No water out
####\~# /##
#####\~/###
###########

Even when I brought infinite water from a normal u-bend two levels above it it would not flow through to fill the pond again until I capped the holes. Using periods to break up the ~ so I don't have to use nowiki tags. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:58, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The map http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-3138-emptypool --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Stagnant Water ==

What marks water as stagnant? I know bucket water dumped on the ground is sometimes stagnant, but it's not defined here and I'm not sure what does it.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:30, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Preferences

2008-05-29T17:14:02Z

Dadamh: /* colors */

A new image should probably be uploaded to this page to reflect the changes to the screen (colour coding, squads etc.). Some parts of the article will have to be rewritten. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 16:42, 7 February 2008 (EST)

== sewer brew? really? ==

One of my dwarves seriously has a preference for sewer brew and he arrived without it, too. Could it be that he nipped from that barrel the dead elf *snicker* dropped and liked it? Well, i guess thats what they call an acquired taste then.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:48, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== colors ==

I have seen a dwarf who preferred a color, instead of a material, for clothing. can someone else confirm this?

::Previous unsigned comment by [[User:Strangething|Strangething]]

:I've definitely seen color preferences - is that for clothing? Often its a pretty random color that i've never seen in clothing though. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:47, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:Does a preference for, say, "the color yellow" apply to gypsum walls? Is it just dyes?--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:14, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

40d:Magma

2008-05-29T15:23:29Z

Dadamh: /* Magma vs. Built Objects */

Magma is red-hot molten rock present in [[volcano]]es, as well as magma pools and magma pipes. It serves as an energy source, powering [[magma forge]]s, [[magma glass furnace]]s and [[magma smelter]]s. It is extremely dangerous.

==Magma sources==

While in previous versions of Dwarf Fortress, every map was guaranteed to have magma, since v0.27.169.32a magma is now a feature of terrain and may or may not be present.

Magma occurs in three different features; Magma pools, Magma Pipes, and [[Volcano|Volcanoes]].

* A '''Magma Pool''' is a reservoir of magma that occupies only a few Z-Levels in the mountain, without reaching the surface. Magma Pools can be very small, and may have few suitable locations for buildings that rely on magma. Magma in these pools is limited, and pools will not refill with magma once emptied.

* A '''Magma Pipe''' starts at the lowest z-level of the map from an magma (or lava) flow and extend in a pipe shape upwards, sometimes reaching the surface but often not. Magma Pipes gradually refill with magma.

* A [[Volcano]] is similar to a magma pipe, but it has the advantage of being a geographical feature that is visible on the [[location]] screen. This means that it is a lot easier to find. However, it IS actually possible for a volcano that shows up on the "local" and region screen in the starting location chooser to be entirely underground - Although you could see it in the starting location chooser, it would not be visible from the surface once your dwarves have arrived at the fort's site.

== Finding magma ==

Volcanos are visible on the "local" screen in the starting location chooser. It is represented as a red ≈ mark (a double tilde) - essentially it looks like red water. Note that red ≈ marks in the "region" screen mean something different entirely (e.g. red sand).
If you are using a certain [[utility]], you can also see magma pools and magma pipes on the local screen in the embark menu.
After you have embarked for a place that has a volcano, and once your dwarves have arrived at their target destination, you should see a large red pool of lava on your map. If you don't, you should expect your volcano to be somewhere underground. You then have to use [[exploratory mining]] to find it.

While picking a starting location, the easiest place to look for magma is on or near a [[volcano]] (a red ^ mark in the "region" screen). There are often volcanic islands (easy to find, since they are the sole land in the middle of oceans), but since sea travel is not yet implemented, trade with other races may not be possible on such islands. Instead, find a volcano on land, and (optionally) start looking for a vent in nearby squares. "Nearby squares" can mean anything from literally on top of the volcano, to adjacent, to quite a long distance away indeed. The placement of magma seems to be related to the distance from volcanoes, but is still essentially random.

Magma vents occur exclusively in world map tiles that are primarily igneous extrusive. That is to say, if you select an entire tile on the embarkation screen and press F1 to highlight the most common terrain, the tile will only have magma if the top stone is dark gray, signifying igneous extrusive rock. Magma does not necessarily form in this geological zone/biome, rather anywhere in the tile. Even if magma is not evident on the surface, it's almost certain to be underground somewhere, though the chances of finding it without reveal.exe are still slim.

Much harder than simply finding a magma vent is finding a magma vent that is also near suitable terrain for building. Depending on your requirements - you may be looking for a source of running water, or a mountain for minerals, or a healthy tree population, or even all three - suitable building sites can be extremely scarce.

Since volcanoes show up on the region finder, and magma vents do not, you may find it easier to simply check all volcanoes on a map for suitability, and generate a new world if none are suitable, rather than scouring tile after tile for magma vents.

If you're willing to search exhaustively, you might want to consider finding magma vents that are not near volcanoes at all. Very occasionally, magma will be visible in the middle of forests, plains, or other terrain nowhere near a volcano or even mountains. There is no way to spot these on the region map, so you have to review the local maps. This can be done from DF, but since it involves a lot of scrolling and is very tedious, you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol.

You can also occasionally find magma that does not extend all the way to the surface, and therefore is not visible on the local map. These are in fact much more numerous than surface-visible magma vents; however, they are almost impossible to find without cheating via one of the [[utilities]] like "reveal.exe", since unlike proper magma vents these smaller deposits must be almost literally mined into to see (you will get a warning about "warm stone" before you actually breach the deposit). These smaller magma deposits appear in the same places as normal magma vents - near volcanoes, or, failing that, near other known magma.

== Using magma ==

On a map with a magma vent, the magma will be clearly visible from every level ground and below, unless the map is in a Freezing area. In Freezing areas, the top few levels of the vent will have cooled to form an obsidian "cap". This should still be readily recognizable however, as it will comprise a circular area. The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.

The vent has a similar, circular shape on each level. However, it is not identical from one level to the next; some levels will have a larger or somewhat misshapen circle of magma.

The primary use for magma is to power [[magma smelter]]s, [[magma glass furnace]]s and [[magma forge]]s. (There are other uses, including defense and possibly even garbage disposal.) To build forges, etc. on magma, at least one of the external eight squares must be above a square of magma.

This can be done most easily by simply building on ground level. The magma is visible from ground level but is actually contained one level below ground level, just like any ground-level water source.

To build underground, you will need to dig at least one tile of a [[channel]] above the location you wish to build the smelter or forge. Underneath this channel there must be magma, either directly from the vent or channeled from the vent. You can simply build a tunnel straight into the magma, or use channels to tap into the magma on the level below safely - this latter is easier if there is more magma on the lower level than the level on which you wish to build. Tapping into magma directly is quite safe, provided that you are prepared for it. Magma is much slower than water, and can be stopped by a simple floodgate.

Volcanoes and magma tubes slowly replenish their supply of magma.

==Magma compared to water==

Magma is a chunky liquid. As such, it acts like water in certain circumstances, but acts differently in others.

===Similarities===

*Magma fills a tile and has seven possible depths.

*Magma flows outward and downward to expand into clear space.

*Screw pumps work in magma.

*Floodgates and pressure plates work in magma.

*Constructed walls of all kinds safely contain magma.

*Objects thrown into magma sink to the bottom.

*Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time.

===Differences===

*Magma is extremely hot, and capable of melting objects and constructions made of most materials (see [[Magma#Magma vs. Built Objects|Magma vs. Built Objects]]) and thus destroying them.

*Magma is never pressurized, it seeps out of holes slower than water and slow enough for any dwarves to outrun, unless they are the ones digging into it.

*Magma never flows up. Its level may rise only by dripping more magma from above, and new magma may only distribute itself by moving down or to the sides, but never up.

*Magma reacts violently with water, releasing steam and, depending on the amount of magma, leaving behind tiles of solid obsidian which can be mined, smoothed or engraved like any natural tile.

*Magma is not a water source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded.

== Magma vs. Built Objects ==

Some objects that come in contact with magma will function fine, no matter what their material. Others will melt or cease to work properly unless they're made of [[magma-safe materials]].

* Workshops that are powered by magma need not be built of magma-safe materials to function.

* Constructed walls of any material, even those that are not "Magma-safe", will hold magma in without issues.

* Bridges that are built <i>over</i> magma may be constructed of any material. However, bridges that are <i>submerged</i> in magma must be constructed of a magma-safe material.

* Most machines must be made of [[magma-safe materials]] to function for more than a few minutes in magma. This includes Floodgates and Screw Pumps. Unsafe materials will function for a while, but then burn away.

* Stone mechanisms attached to a construction will melt in magma unless made of bauxite or raw adamantine, even if the construction itself is made of steel. In addition, if the mechanisms melt off of a floodgate, the floodgate will cease to be "constructed" and become an unplaced item again.{{version|0.27.176.38c}} At this point, the magma will flow over it freely.

== Temperature settings ==

Magma is almost harmless if temperature is disabled in the Dwarf Fortress init file. It can still trap and suffocate or simply starve your dwarves in some situations. It will not melt bridges, etc. constructed of non-[[magma-proof]] materials.

== Magma reactions ==

*Water: If magma happens to contact water it produces some steam and [[obsidian]]. This means there is no longer any chance of using a prolonged contact between the two to create a steam trap, though steam is also likely now not harmful. For those of you who aren't veteran dwarves, in the old 2D version, steam was deadly.
*Rocks: [[stone|Rock]]s left over from mining will melt if magma covers them.
*Speed: Magma moves relatively slowly. While it is nearly impossible to try to seal off water let loose, magma is slow enough for your dwarves to build a floodgate or door, or even wall off the flooding area, if you happen to let magma loose by mistake.
*Pressure: Magma does not transmit [[water pressure|pressure]].
: Observation. I have witnessed Magma "blurp" up through a channel, while working with a Volcano. In this partiucal case, a floor built in the volcano, 1 z level down. (This level was created by dropping water into the volcano from overhead, create a obsidian layer.)

[[Category:Physics]]

40d Talk:Screw pump/archive1

2008-05-29T15:20:29Z

Dadamh: /* Magma-safe screw pumps - 3 May 2008 */

I made some mockups of east-to-west pumps using Unicode characters, but we should really get some full-fledged graphical examples. --[[User:JT|JT]] 07:47, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it essential that the rear of the pump be adjacent to an open square over liquid? I need to do some tests of that, I had assumed from my testing it was sufficient to have the pump just over liquid (so for example, have the rear square on a ramp into a lake) [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 13:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The rear end doesnt need to be over an open space it can be pumped straight out onto the ground. Fixing that now.--[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 20:43, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Uh, I found that when building a screw pump on open ground, above a mined-out section filled with 7 waters ont he floor below, nothing pumped through until I dug an 'Open Space' next to the pump handle. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 20:52, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it possible to pump magma with a screw pump made of steel? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 04:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I'm going to try this, except I'll use a Bauxite block because I can and there's lots of Bauxite on my map, I'll let you know how it turns out. (My last attempt at pumping magma ended with fire and death; Wood Pipe section, Stone block, I can't recall what kind of corkscrew.) --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:27, 7 January 2008 (EST)
::Used Iron Corkscrew and Pipe Section, Bauxite block, and it pumps fine. I'm going to assume Steel would work just as well. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 01:21, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Has anyone confirmed the reynard diagram works? I was under the impression he meant it as conjecture [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:just tested it. its fine [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:19, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::In the reynard diagram tower are the fronts of the pump over the water on the square besides that?

Maybe this is helpful?

[[image:PumpWestExamplefix.png]]

This is an example of a pump facing West in wonderful 3D.

A: A square below the level of the pump without a floor where water is pumped from

B: The point in which a dwarf operates the machine

C: The three points in which water is deposited. [[User:MikeWulf|MikeWulf]]
:It's deposited only on the far C tile but leaks into the others from it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I can probably do a few of these for the digging article too if it is acceptable.

:What program did you use to make that graphic? I wouldn't be able to make something like this unless I had a laser pen or somethin'. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Just OpenCanvas with a graphic tablet. If the wiki wants uniform pictures I could probably do them.

After seeing the new quote on the main page and seeing the bottom of this article, I'm totally opening up a dwarven gym with pumps and, if I can figure out how to make them use it, a swimming pool. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 20:46, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Okay then, I'll put this bug in your head: If you build a pool with an adamantine floor, it'll look like lane markings :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:45, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Just added a note that stacked pumps have to be built from the bottom up in order to fulfill their support requirements. This may seem obvious to the initiated, but it frustrated me for quite some time. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:26, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I hear while draining ponds, screw pumps appear to create more water than they destroy, allowing some unexpected flooding. Does this mean, then, that you can take a single half-full square of water and eventually recycle it enough to fill a pond? Or is screw pump flooding just greatly exaggerated? --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 07:00, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Actually got a chance to test it, appeared to create and destroy the same amount. Darn, and I was hoping for an automatic-refilling well. --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 22:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

I think I have come up with a slightly more space efficient version of--what I can only assume to be--Juckto's pump tower system. It ought to work with either level as the base level and will use just as much energy as the previous version. I hope that it is useful! --[[User:Shimavak|Shimavak]] 23:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)

:Reynard's is still the best :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:11, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::I think that with Reynard's design, you would have to use axles at each level in order to run in mechanically; otherwise the water would leak if one were to run a pair of gears up the side the whole way. His is certainly more space efficient... --[[User:Shimavak|Shimavak]] 12:18, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Mud ==

My screw pump seems to be producing a lot of mud and emptying it into the brook. Is this going to do something bad to my water supply, or am I alright as long as I stay upstream of the mud? --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 13:08, 17 November 2007 (EST)

:I'm 99% certain that it's pretty much impossible at this point to contaminate a water supply. Heck, any pond shows as a "murky pool" and dwarves will use it freely, and making a pond by flooding a roomful of goblin invaders makes a perfectly usable pond despite the obvious issues of the rotting drowned goblins. So, there shouldn't be any problems either way. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 20:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Technical Nomenclature ==

I'm tired of being unsure of what to call either end of the pump so that other people can understand what I am saying. I propose that we come up with a particular set of terms to define how the pumps are setup in any description or example.

My proposal is as follows.

* Name: Screw Pump Block or Pump Block
* Acronym: SPB or just PB.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is dark when the screw pump is being built. It blocks creatures and water.
* Symbol: %

* Name: Screw Pump Step or Pump Step
* Acronym: SPS or just PS.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is light when the screw pump is being built. It can be walked on, and this is where the dwarf will stand to run the pump.
* Symbol: $

This will make it easier to tell where the pump faces when only a diagram is given. Such as the following. You can easily tell that the PB is on the left, and thus the pump is pumping right to left.

<div class="thumb">
<div class="thumbinner">
<div class="internal" style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%; text-align: left; border: 1px solid #CCC; background: white; padding: 5px;"><nowiki>
TOP VIEW SIDE VIEW
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒,,,,<-(Access tunnel) ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
≈≈≈≈▒,▒▒▒ <--pumping ≈≈≈≈%$
≈≈≈≈%$··· ▒▒▒▒▒▒≈≈≈ reservoir (below)-->
≈≈≈≈▒▒···
▒▒▒▒▒▒···
<--pumping (same level)
reservoir (below)-->
</nowiki>
</div><div class="thumbcaption">Diagram 1. Top and Side view of pump</div></div></div>

== Thumbed? ==

Is it necessary to thumbnail the isometric graphic? There's no text for it to push out of the way, so it seems odd to use a thumbnail. The general purpose of a thumbnail, I figure, is to float next to text to illustrate the subject in question. If the text has been removed (something I also disagree with: it's important to show what it would look like in DF terms), then the diagram might as well sit at full size. The reduced-scale thumbnail is less clear, IMO. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:38, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree, the full size pic should be used for clarity's sake - especially if you're removing the text. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 19:27, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

==Magma-safe screw pumps - 3 May 2008==
*[[Magma#Magma_vs._Built_Objects|Magma page]] says pumps made of non-safe materials will melt.
*[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Screw_pump&diff=23805&oldid=23382 InquisitorSaturn added] that wooden pumps can pump magma.
One of these must be wrong. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:45, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Technically, both are correct. A wooden pump moving magma will function for a few minutes until it burns.
--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 11:20, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Ruin.

2008-05-29T14:53:36Z

Dadamh: Ruin. moved to Ruin: Punctuation in a page title is no good.

#REDIRECT [[Ruin]]

40d:Ruin

2008-05-29T14:53:36Z

Dadamh: Ruin. moved to Ruin: Punctuation in a page title is no good.

A ruin is a former human or dwarven settlement that is now filled with [[undead]]. These sites are discovered in [[adventurer]] mode, either by stumbling across them or by talking with townsfolk and being alerted to nearby sites. These will then show up in [[fortress mode]] when picking a starting site, and the player can choose to place a new fort on top of a ruin or cave. Beware, your starting dwarves will probably be massacred!

40d:Glacier

2008-05-29T14:38:21Z

Dadamh: Stub template.

== Glacier ==

A glacier [[biome]] is a biome with a freezing [[climate]] that is mostly composed of [[ice]].

There are few resources on a glacier tile; no [[trees]], [[plants]], [[water]], [[animals]], [[stone]], or [[ores]] are typically included.

This makes a glacier a very difficult biome to build a successful [[fortress]] in.

{{Expand Topic}}

{{World}}

[[Category:Biomes]]
[[Category:World]]

User:Dadamh

2008-05-29T14:35:14Z

Dadamh: New page: Dadamh has been quite content lately. He admired a fine game lately. He had a decent drink lately. He recently lost a loved fortress to magma. He likes soil, coffee, and cats for t...

Dadamh has been quite content lately. He admired a fine game lately. He had a decent drink lately. He recently lost a loved fortress to [[magma]].

He likes soil, coffee, and cats for their stupidity.

He requires coffee to get through the working day, and is beginning to work slowly due to its scarcity. He dislikes working outside and grumbles loudly about even mildly inclement weather.

40d:Glacier

2008-05-29T14:24:57Z

Dadamh:

40d:Glacier

2008-05-29T14:23:05Z

Dadamh: Added page

40d Talk:Kennel

2008-05-27T17:57:27Z

Dadamh:

== New trainable animals? ==

Can anyone confirm that anything other than dogs are trainable in the new version (without modding)? I looked through the raws, and there's still no [TRAINABLE] flag on any other critters.

== Catch a live land animal ==

What does this command actually do? I tried it with an animal trainer (no hunters) and he didn't seem to do anything. Is the only way to catch wild animals for taming using cage traps, or can a hunter (or for example wrestlers) knock out animals in melee and catch them that way? Or does the animal trainer play any part here?

It is a command that makes a trapper use an animal trap to catch vermin.--[[User:Varsashi|Varsashi]] 18:42, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Ah, I see, so the only way to actually catch tamable deer/foxes/elephants etc. is to spam cage traps on the landscape and hope that they run into them? [[User:Jimphraxia|Jimphraxia]] 20:01, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, you can use walls to funnel them into the traps. That's actually the way it was more or less done in 2D DF, except channels were used to force them through the cage traps. You CAN spam the traps on the landscape, of course. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:11, 28 November 2007 (EST)
== Taming Vermin ==
The article states that it is impossible to train vermin caught through the "Capture Live Land Animal" order. This is false. I've upwards of ten tamed rats sitting around in traps.