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	<entry>
		<id>https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Chronin&amp;diff=126108</id>
		<title>User:Chronin</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Chronin&amp;diff=126108"/>
		<updated>2010-08-20T19:25:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Chronin: Created page with 'Got referred to DF by a friend, 40d series. Loved the OpenGL versions after-wards.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt; Obsidian: Expanding the Solid Mass of the world, two […'&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Got referred to DF by a friend, 40d series. Loved the OpenGL versions after-wards.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[DF2010:Obsidian|Obsidian]]: Expanding the Solid Mass of the world, [[DF2010:Water|two]] [[DF2010:Magma|sources]] at a time. Great for creating towers, to make a [[DF2010:Trap#Weapon Trap|giant spiked ball]] out of the world.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Chronin</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Water&amp;diff=126107</id>
		<title>v0.31 Talk:Water</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Water&amp;diff=126107"/>
		<updated>2010-08-20T19:09:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Chronin: /* Freezing documentation? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Water as cushioning ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tried dropping various creatures in various places in arena mode. Everything survives 1z drops unharmed. 2z is damaging. 3z is more often than not lethal. Water appears to cushion falls. I dropped things from the top of the arena into the 3z deep end of the water and they weren't injured at all, though they quickly drowned due to not being swimmers. Also tried dropping people in 3z of magma. Magma seems to provide less cushioning than water. And then they burn. Suggest making irrationally large (200-300z or so) drops into various depths of water to test cushioning effect. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's worth noting that layers of water in previous versions did not cushion your fall so much as the depth of the water didn't increase it. I.e. the drop damage was calculated by the amount of air you fell through. Is that a possibility here? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::This appears to be actual cushioning. Creatures fell 5-6z before hitting the water and falling another 3z. If the water simply didn't count, they'd have splatted as normal for a 6z fall. Instead they were unharmed and seemingly unaware that they should swim to safety. Or merely unable to. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 16:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Contamination ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've built a very large reservoir (currently 30x25x4 approx) on some ground that had mountain goat blood on it. There is also a small amount of mountain goat and dwarf blood on the area around the reservoir. On overflowing the reservoir (which is fed from the top by a &amp;quot;clean&amp;quot; source), I get blood EVERYWHERE the water flows, seemingly on evaporation of the water. There's now far more blood spread around than the creatures had originally... anyone seen similar? --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I did some arena tests with blood and water. apparently adding a 7/7 tile of water on top of a pool of blood creates more pools of blood which are pushed out to the edges of the water as it moves. This behavior may be a bug. There is an open ticket about the subject on the bug tracker here with my full results. [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296]] - [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Verifications of old behavior ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*U-bend test from a river fills to z-1 as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*U-bend test from a murky pool fills to z-1 as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*channeling directly from a river temporarily has no flow, but soon becomes naturally flowing as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*screw pump to a dead end one level above a river generates natural flow as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Diagonal connections neutralize water pressure as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Diagonal connections do not prevent the spread of flow as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Reactor#3 built as a perpetual motion test -- behaves as expected&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*some flow artifacts at the bottom of both U-bends -- this was always a bit quirky, but should run more tests&lt;br /&gt;
*screw pump from a murky pool in a 1x18 channel which doubles back to the murky pond generates reliable flow -- '''possible change in flow mechanics'''&lt;br /&gt;
*Screw pump from z-2 one level below the river, pushing into a 1x100 channel generates flow only near the end of the channel where the water is still filling. Behaves as expected, the previous test appears to be a fluke.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm running through a battery of tests here, I will update this with my results. The one surprise so far is the murky pool test. In 40d a similar test would quickly become saturated with 7/7 water and only indicate flow at the end of the channel. need to test that more to make sure this isn't a fluke. I will continue to update this as I verify more things. Once I have a bit more information I'll start updating the water pages. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Ran a new variation of the long channel flow test using a level drop this time to break the natural flow effect from the river. This time I got the expected result of many tiles of still water with a small amount of flowing water near the end of the channel where it had not yet filled. This does however mean I'm using pressurized water this time which might be worth a bit more investigation. This also demonstrates the simplest form of water teleportation which is what is believed to be why flow of this nature fails to appear. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Springs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reading this article mentions that water can come from springs... and it's linked. I hadn't heard of this before, so I followed the link and it redirected to Calendar; it meant springtime. I removed the link for now, but do water-springs occur? Someone who knows either remove the term in this article or work on the Spring page. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 04:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Springs&amp;quot; probably refers to mountain brooks. At the head of each brook, there is a spidery section of water, and at the end of each &amp;quot;finger&amp;quot; of water there is a &amp;quot;river source&amp;quot; tile that can be viewed with {{k|k}}. These are infinite sources of water, and probably what the article refers to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 04:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: the source of many rivers is a spring, it's a weird spidery looking thing that is a direct source of water. They can sometimes be found on open plains. They are often found deep in the mountains. If you have one in your embark map, they have some odd properties as discussed in the wiki.  They will have a number of tiles that are treated as water sources, which will constantly and rapidly refill to 7/7 water providing and endless supply of water. a collapse above these tiles will break this effect. This is different from the much more common behavior of off map water sources where you have and edge of map tile that will constantly refill. Edge of map tiles cannot be destroyed. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well thanks for the answer... someone might want to make a Spring(Water) page as opposed to the Spring(Season) page... Either one of you guys prolly could... I don't have any firsthand knowledge, so I prolly shouldn't. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 00:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== fortifications on map edge to drain fluid away ==&lt;br /&gt;
They say you can designate fortifications on edge tiles to drain fluid off the map. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 13:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You can't dig out an edge tile. If there is solid ground there it is there to stay. Just to double-check I even tried to carve fortifications out of an edge tile. as expected, it doesn't work. You can smooth and engrave the wall if you so wish but cannot otherwise remove or alter it. However in underground complexes it is common to have open spaces at the edge of map. In this case you can choose to place walls (or fortifications) right up at the edge of the map. On the surface of the world where caravans travel, you may not place any structures within 5 tiles of the edge. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Actually, I've done the fortification trick.  If you smooth the edge wall, you can carve fortifications in it and use it to drain an infinite amount of water/magma. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.84|64.255.180.84]] 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Even in version 0.31? It's well known that this was possible in 40d (though only with water), but some things have changed since then. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Smoothing it first you say? I'll have to verify that later, if true that's useful to know. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Works fine, if you do this to a wall at waterlevel in a cavern near a part of the edge that generates water you can create real easy power supplies.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Freezing documentation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source water that freezes in colder months won't freeze if piped to an underground area. Rather, the source will freeze, but the water already underground won't become ice. I made an elaborate magma heating system, only to realize that it actually wasn't needed.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Chronin</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Water&amp;diff=126106</id>
		<title>v0.31 Talk:Water</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Water&amp;diff=126106"/>
		<updated>2010-08-20T19:08:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Chronin: /* Freezing documentation? */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Water as cushioning ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tried dropping various creatures in various places in arena mode. Everything survives 1z drops unharmed. 2z is damaging. 3z is more often than not lethal. Water appears to cushion falls. I dropped things from the top of the arena into the 3z deep end of the water and they weren't injured at all, though they quickly drowned due to not being swimmers. Also tried dropping people in 3z of magma. Magma seems to provide less cushioning than water. And then they burn. Suggest making irrationally large (200-300z or so) drops into various depths of water to test cushioning effect. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's worth noting that layers of water in previous versions did not cushion your fall so much as the depth of the water didn't increase it. I.e. the drop damage was calculated by the amount of air you fell through. Is that a possibility here? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::This appears to be actual cushioning. Creatures fell 5-6z before hitting the water and falling another 3z. If the water simply didn't count, they'd have splatted as normal for a 6z fall. Instead they were unharmed and seemingly unaware that they should swim to safety. Or merely unable to. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 16:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Contamination ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've built a very large reservoir (currently 30x25x4 approx) on some ground that had mountain goat blood on it. There is also a small amount of mountain goat and dwarf blood on the area around the reservoir. On overflowing the reservoir (which is fed from the top by a &amp;quot;clean&amp;quot; source), I get blood EVERYWHERE the water flows, seemingly on evaporation of the water. There's now far more blood spread around than the creatures had originally... anyone seen similar? --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I did some arena tests with blood and water. apparently adding a 7/7 tile of water on top of a pool of blood creates more pools of blood which are pushed out to the edges of the water as it moves. This behavior may be a bug. There is an open ticket about the subject on the bug tracker here with my full results. [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296]] - [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Verifications of old behavior ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*U-bend test from a river fills to z-1 as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*U-bend test from a murky pool fills to z-1 as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*channeling directly from a river temporarily has no flow, but soon becomes naturally flowing as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*screw pump to a dead end one level above a river generates natural flow as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Diagonal connections neutralize water pressure as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Diagonal connections do not prevent the spread of flow as expected&lt;br /&gt;
*Reactor#3 built as a perpetual motion test -- behaves as expected&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*some flow artifacts at the bottom of both U-bends -- this was always a bit quirky, but should run more tests&lt;br /&gt;
*screw pump from a murky pool in a 1x18 channel which doubles back to the murky pond generates reliable flow -- '''possible change in flow mechanics'''&lt;br /&gt;
*Screw pump from z-2 one level below the river, pushing into a 1x100 channel generates flow only near the end of the channel where the water is still filling. Behaves as expected, the previous test appears to be a fluke.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm running through a battery of tests here, I will update this with my results. The one surprise so far is the murky pool test. In 40d a similar test would quickly become saturated with 7/7 water and only indicate flow at the end of the channel. need to test that more to make sure this isn't a fluke. I will continue to update this as I verify more things. Once I have a bit more information I'll start updating the water pages. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Ran a new variation of the long channel flow test using a level drop this time to break the natural flow effect from the river. This time I got the expected result of many tiles of still water with a small amount of flowing water near the end of the channel where it had not yet filled. This does however mean I'm using pressurized water this time which might be worth a bit more investigation. This also demonstrates the simplest form of water teleportation which is what is believed to be why flow of this nature fails to appear. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Springs? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reading this article mentions that water can come from springs... and it's linked. I hadn't heard of this before, so I followed the link and it redirected to Calendar; it meant springtime. I removed the link for now, but do water-springs occur? Someone who knows either remove the term in this article or work on the Spring page. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 04:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Springs&amp;quot; probably refers to mountain brooks. At the head of each brook, there is a spidery section of water, and at the end of each &amp;quot;finger&amp;quot; of water there is a &amp;quot;river source&amp;quot; tile that can be viewed with {{k|k}}. These are infinite sources of water, and probably what the article refers to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 04:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: the source of many rivers is a spring, it's a weird spidery looking thing that is a direct source of water. They can sometimes be found on open plains. They are often found deep in the mountains. If you have one in your embark map, they have some odd properties as discussed in the wiki.  They will have a number of tiles that are treated as water sources, which will constantly and rapidly refill to 7/7 water providing and endless supply of water. a collapse above these tiles will break this effect. This is different from the much more common behavior of off map water sources where you have and edge of map tile that will constantly refill. Edge of map tiles cannot be destroyed. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well thanks for the answer... someone might want to make a Spring(Water) page as opposed to the Spring(Season) page... Either one of you guys prolly could... I don't have any firsthand knowledge, so I prolly shouldn't. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 00:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== fortifications on map edge to drain fluid away ==&lt;br /&gt;
They say you can designate fortifications on edge tiles to drain fluid off the map. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 13:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: You can't dig out an edge tile. If there is solid ground there it is there to stay. Just to double-check I even tried to carve fortifications out of an edge tile. as expected, it doesn't work. You can smooth and engrave the wall if you so wish but cannot otherwise remove or alter it. However in underground complexes it is common to have open spaces at the edge of map. In this case you can choose to place walls (or fortifications) right up at the edge of the map. On the surface of the world where caravans travel, you may not place any structures within 5 tiles of the edge. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Actually, I've done the fortification trick.  If you smooth the edge wall, you can carve fortifications in it and use it to drain an infinite amount of water/magma. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.84|64.255.180.84]] 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Even in version 0.31? It's well known that this was possible in 40d (though only with water), but some things have changed since then. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Smoothing it first you say? I'll have to verify that later, if true that's useful to know. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Works fine, if you do this to a wall at waterlevel in a cavern near a part of the edge that generates water you can create real easy power supplies.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Freezing documentation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Source water that freezes in colder months won't freeze if piped to an underground area. I made an elaborate magma heating system, only to realize that it actually wasn't needed.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Chronin</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Trading&amp;diff=126105</id>
		<title>v0.31 Talk:Trading</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Trading&amp;diff=126105"/>
		<updated>2010-08-20T18:46:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Chronin: /* Random breaking of &amp;quot;Trader Requested at Depot&amp;quot;? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Colors of Containers==&lt;br /&gt;
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents.  Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure.  I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No Dwarves==&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Vermin in caravans?==&lt;br /&gt;
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wabblers were in my list. I haven´t catched any vermins yet, so I put them in that cage, too.  When I looked at the (elven) caravan they &amp;quot;stole&amp;quot; the vermins from them. Anyone has seen this, too?&lt;br /&gt;
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree.  The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages.  However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({k|v} when highlighting the &amp;quot;empty&amp;quot; cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No Wagons with Caravans==&lt;br /&gt;
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== late caravan ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended.  Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::maybe this is intentional as a &amp;quot;delay&amp;quot; from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;my first Mid-Winter&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merchants going underground. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Multiple Trade Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has there been any change for this?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Traders go insane and starve ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?&lt;br /&gt;
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved.  I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment.  Try locking the caravan on your map.  Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== No Dwarven Caravan ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The same thing happened to me.  My fortress is in a &amp;quot;small region&amp;quot;-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caravan leaving through cave ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably not a bug, as such.  Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs.  Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level.  Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves.  /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Forbidden Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Traders taking forever to load up==&lt;br /&gt;
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items.  I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out.  Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too)  However, there is way to prevent this.  Pause the game after you get the &amp;quot;caravan has embarked&amp;quot; message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button.  Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused.  Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse.  It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up.  But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== Experience ==&lt;br /&gt;
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''&lt;br /&gt;
This isn't true for 40d.  The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed.  Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Random breaking of &amp;quot;Trader Requested at Depot&amp;quot;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Chronin</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Trading&amp;diff=126104</id>
		<title>v0.31 Talk:Trading</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Trading&amp;diff=126104"/>
		<updated>2010-08-20T18:43:34Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Chronin: /* Random breaking of &amp;quot;Trader Requested at Depot&amp;quot;? */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Colors of Containers==&lt;br /&gt;
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents.  Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure.  I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No Dwarves==&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Vermin in caravans?==&lt;br /&gt;
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wabblers were in my list. I haven´t catched any vermins yet, so I put them in that cage, too.  When I looked at the (elven) caravan they &amp;quot;stole&amp;quot; the vermins from them. Anyone has seen this, too?&lt;br /&gt;
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree.  The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages.  However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({k|v} when highlighting the &amp;quot;empty&amp;quot; cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No Wagons with Caravans==&lt;br /&gt;
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== late caravan ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended.  Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::maybe this is intentional as a &amp;quot;delay&amp;quot; from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;my first Mid-Winter&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Merchants going underground. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Multiple Trade Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has there been any change for this?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Traders go insane and starve ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?&lt;br /&gt;
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved.  I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment.  Try locking the caravan on your map.  Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== No Dwarven Caravan ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The same thing happened to me.  My fortress is in a &amp;quot;small region&amp;quot;-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caravan leaving through cave ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Probably not a bug, as such.  Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs.  Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level.  Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves.  /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Forbidden Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Traders taking forever to load up==&lt;br /&gt;
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items.  I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out.  Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too)  However, there is way to prevent this.  Pause the game after you get the &amp;quot;caravan has embarked&amp;quot; message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button.  Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused.  Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse.  It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up.  But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== Experience ==&lt;br /&gt;
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''&lt;br /&gt;
This isn't true for 40d.  The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed.  Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Random breaking of &amp;quot;Trader Requested at Depot&amp;quot;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Chronin</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>