Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Quickstart guide/Stockpiles

2011-11-03T01:04:09Z

Burlingk: Labeling

== Labeling ==

I am not sure if it is appropriate to label this page as a Quicktart Guide.

It starts out by stating that it is presenting advanced (or at least useful) information that is not appropriate for the main article on the subject because it is not necessary. This means it is an excelent choice for a howto, but at the same time it is the exact opposite of a Quickstart guide.

When people hear Quickstart, they expect the information they need to get started quickly. i.e. The required information has to be there.

Just my two cents. :-) If the overall opinion of the community differs from mine, that is cool. ^_^ I didn't create the page after all. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 01:04, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Emi

2011-09-16T03:32:02Z

Burlingk: /* I Am Familiar With Rubu on Rails */ Forgot to sign

Please leave new messages by pressing the new section button. It is next to the edit button, and looks like a +. Be sure to sign your message with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> so I know who left me the message.

== Captcha ==

The wiki system is set up to autoconfirm a user after 3 days of existence as a registered user. Once that's done, you'll never have to enter a captcha again. (also, it's not possible, even as an admin / bureaucrat to manually add a user to the autoconfirmed group, sorry) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

== Contact Info ==

I'm on IRC nearly every waking moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

==[[Template:ArticleVersion]]==
''Two dozen'' consecutive edits? "Preview" just not a possibility?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:14, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

== cv ==
So, forgive my continuing ignorance, but once the changeover happens, "cv" will then become whatever version 2010 is, right? And if so, how do we then distinguish between redirects appropriate only to the 40d legacy articles (which are currently being "corrected" using CV) and those that should go to the then truly "current version" 2010 articles?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

== search terms and redirects ==

So a redirect chain like Gold bars -> 40d:Gold bars -> 40d:metal is correct, don't change it. Emi
Hi. I'm ''sure'' what you meant was to ask ''"Why did you delete that?"'', and not presume to lecture me about how redirects work. And my response would be - ''"Why did you create it?"'' Because I didn't "change" it, I ''deleted'' it - and there's a difference, and a difference in the reasoning behind each.

"Gold bars" is not really a term to link from, just not appropriate for a page title. It's not a term likely to be typed in to the search window, nor is it a wiki-article title in game terms. [[Gold]] is a perfectly valid (and existing) search term, and [[bars]] are as well, but not in the sense of "gold bars", unless you are [[construction|constructing]] horizontal or vertical bars from a single '''[[bar]]''' of [[gold]] ("bars" of gold being distinct from a "bar" of gold, for better or worse). And it's not usually a policy to create redirects, even Search redirects, based on erroneous understandings of the layout of the wiki. (If so, "silver bars", "copper bars", "bismuth bronze battle axe" and "narrow giant cave spider silk trousers" could all be included by some well meaning user based on one User's example - and that's more work than I want. Or any Admin.) More, "gold bars" is plural, which breaks yet another rule. So why, pray, do we need it in the first place? Lastly, if "gold bars" ''were'' a valid search or redirect term, I would think it should redirect to either "bar", the item (to clarify what a "bar" is, gold or not), or "gold" (the [[material]], to address that aspect), rather than [[metal]], which doesn't address the actual term, but is only a generally related umbrella article - but that confusion gets back to the reason I deleted it in the first place. I didn't even notice it was you that had created that page, but if I had I would have asked you this before deleting it. So... since we're here, why ''did'' you see a need to create it in the first place?

And while we're on the subject, you seem to be fairly enthusiastic about redirecting every game term to cv:game term - even if they are NOT version specific. You may want to slow down before hitting every last one, since things like [[acronym]]s and such will then have to be tracked down and returned to mainspace existence. Several in the long, long list on [[:Category:Obsolete]] seem more than a bit suspect, but I suppose now that it's done only the new version will prove them so or not. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:47, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree that it's maybe a silly redirect, however, right now I am making sure
these redirects all work properly
Use some discretion. I saw a page marked N(ew), and it didn't belong. If you recognize it as "silly", then don't go to the trouble to perpetuate it. And allow me to make something else clear that you should understand. Before you replace a page that Admin has deleted, you should ask them "why?" first. Thanks so much for your understanding on that last point.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:07, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Discretion only slows down serializable tasks like the one I was doing. It's much easier to follow the
same pattern over and over and then go back and do all the stuff necessary to remove a silly redirect
So you are going to cover all those "silly" redirects that require it? Reassuring to hear - so long as someone has it covered, no problem then.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Also, because there's no real reason not to have most of these redirects, it's silly to bother
checking each one before fixing them. If the admins at this wiki are of the "I'm an admin, so my
word is law" attitude, I'm not sure this is a place I want to be.
If that were the case, I would have simply acted high-handed and slapped you and not explained my reasoning - but we both know I didn't, so I'm left wondering why you even mention it. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for ''your'' reason for replacing the page that an Admin deleted rather than asking them why they did it. Even if you ''were'' Admin, do you think that is a good approach to the situation?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:24, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
I didn't notice that you had deleted it until after I had recreated it.
I see.
I ask again if you use either of those other communication methods...
it's much easier to work these things out in real time.
No, sorry. And as Admin of this wiki, I feel it's important to use this format to work these things out. Which (I hope) we've now done. Readya later.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:45, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

== Bot edit request ==

Could you change all of the non-namespace-specific article links in template pages to use [[template:L]]? This is going to be a problem soon. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:43, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== EmiBot's Standing Orders ==
Will it do that daily/hourly? B/c new pages are flying up without it. I agree it's overly long, and I thought about that, but it'll only be long for these first few days, until the immediate flurry has calmed a bit, then we back off. Right now, it's amateur hour out there, so any help is a good thing in those directions. (No automatic fixes? Urgh -that's a LOT of manual...) :P --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC) 
Again, I find myself waiting on an answer to my question while you focus on your own agenda - still waiting, thanks.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

==Deletion Template==
I explained my reasoning on the talk page, but in short: (1)The mod is not at all notable. (I am not willing to claim a notable mod would not deserve a page on its own, but this is a mod that adds 4 creatures and no one talks about - hardly deserving of a page). (2) There is only one relevant piece of information about this mod - where it can be found. (3) The page doesn't even include that information, and is thus useless. (4) A link to the mod on DFFD or its forum thread, and a very short blurb ("adds 4 new mega beasts") should be added to a general mod page if the mod is going to have a presence on the wiki. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:Ah, sure, i can do that. I honestly just took a stab in the dark that deletion was the right template, and didn't actually know there were options... la la la? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:39, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== [[Template:Alloy3]] ==

I wasn't sure who to mention this to, and I apologize if it has already been noted, but this template is in use on 40d pages while the link built into the template for [[construction]] links to the "2010" namespace. Not sure what the best way to fix it would be, as I assume that the template will continue to be used. --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 16:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks for looking into that! However, it looks like this is going to be an issue with a lot of the existing templates that are used across both versions. I think I see what your fix does and if I get some free time this evening I would be happy to try to update what I can find unless you can think of any negative impact it would have. -- [[User:Soy|Soy]] 19:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==nm==
Yeah, I spoke before I read his talk page. And I remembered it as CMD. And he's right in that that's how it "should" be - the fact that it's not how it is in-game just an awkward DF reality. Altho', I see it as a style issue, not a coding issue.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I probably still would have argued for Cmd with a redirect from CMD.
That's not an issue to take up over one page - that's a global style issue, and would change the established, existing guidelines on [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal]]. (Not that I wouldn't mind seeing some change, but (unsurprisingly) mine are style-based critiques.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== JS ==

Thanks! :) [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 01:39, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
== IRC ==
my firewall is dumb on windows, so I can't get on IRC, and I don't want to spend 3 hours figuring it out :( --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 04:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:It is. It took me about a day to figure out how to unblock port 80 >< --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:12, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Jewelry is women best friend. It is surely a long lasting http://www.pancharms2u.org/ to your loved ones and enhances ones beauty with its attention getting charm. So, while buying such beautiful
http://www.pancharms2u.org/ for your precious ones, you need to make sure that you get them from trust worthy places. Pandora http://www.pancharms2u.org/, Links of London, Tiffany jewelry offer you top edge designs and high quality jewelry at affordable prices. They are known for their elegant yet bright designs that could match any occasion. http://www.pancharms2u.org/ these brands offer has a specific meaning that expresses many feelings.Silver bangles and bracelets of http://www.pancharms2u.org/ are known for their delicate knots and symbols which express unity and harmony. Their heart shaped lockets which express love make their partner feels that they are precious and wonderful.

== Bug in rate script ==

There's a bug in [[User:Emi/review.js]] - it's always putting the exact same timestamp: "08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:Can't believe I didn't notice that before. It's fixed now. :) [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 21:10, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The rating script stopped working for me. Could have something to do with maintenance? --[[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 16:49, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
:Specifically, it gets to "Getting token..." and then seems to hang. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
::Oh, API probably wasn't re-enabled. Gotta wait for Briess on this one. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 19:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

== Broken quality tags ==

The quality tags are no longer showing up in the right place - they show up in the upper-left corner of the article body (just below the title) instead of the upper-right corner of the page (aligned with the title). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:15, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:Currently quality tags show up in the upper-right corner for me. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:57, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, they were stealth-fixed shortly after I posted this comment (and the reply was posted on my own user page rather than here). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:39, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

== Confirm e-mail address throwing and error ==

I got the following when trying to confirm my email address:

''Confirm e-mail address

''Dwarf Fortress Wiki could not send your confirmation mail. Please check your e-mail address for invalid characters.

''Mailer returned: mailer error

Thanks for your time and effort. --[[User:Jwest23|Jwest23]] 14:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

== Main page is unavailable ==

Does no one uses it?

<s>I'd like to add that changing the version and creating the new Mirrors and Release Information pages don't work and show red links.</s> Nvm, it works now --Dorf2

== The Grimoire of Armok ==

Hey, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77327.0 is the topic this is based on.

essentialy, were going to try make a Grimoire of Armok, and we need an online page for it to be stitched together and to eventualy host the completed version, do you mind if i use the Magma wiki? its a community work in progress, so i hope it can have a place on here.

Best regards: Karakzon
also whats with the 12:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC) thing?

: I'm not completely sure if this is the sort of thing that belongs on dfwiki, let me get back to you on it, okay? Also, if you type exactly four tildes like <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> it will create a signature that consists of a link to your user page and a timestamp, similar to this -> [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 04:08, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== DF2010:Release information/0.31.19 and Template:News/Mirrors/0.31.19 ==

New version! Updated what I could, but that's stuff I can't. --[[User:Gamildum|Gamildum]] 15:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Rails Project ==

I'm experienced with rails (been using it a few years) and am interested in a dfwiki project

[[User:JimboOmega|JimboOmega]] 19:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

== Magmawiki ==

Went there, browsed around - it seems like a rails backed wiki without any real content (and a few of the familliar "something went wrong" rails pages).

What are you looking for...?

== Magmawiki ==

Looks pretty cool. How can I help? My email address is (my user name) @ gmail.com

Can't discover your username and thus email address if you don't sign your post. :P [[User:Naros|Naros]] 21:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

== User Page Request ==

Posting here to request the creation of my user page, per the Site Announcements, primarily as a persistent workspace. Thanks in advance [[User:Valkyrie|Valkyrie]] 22:05, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Requesting the creation of my user page. I'm going to use it as a workspace and reference source for details to my projects. Thankyou Kindly.
[[User:Jamesadelong|Jamesadelong]] 18:30 March 28 2011 (EST)

Please allow [[User:Mystara|Mystara]] to create a user page. I have extensive wiki markup experience and would love to be able to be a part of this community. Thank you.
[[User:Mystara|Mystara]] 23:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

== Dwarven Bathtub ==

I, err, don't play the ANSI version. Only tried it once for about five minutes. Ever since then, I've downloaded versions with the graphics pre-installed. So I'm not sure what a Dwarven Bathtub looks like if you use the default tiles? The image is only used on the {{L|cleaning}} page, so it's not like there's a lot to change, though. The only thing I'm sure about is that the ramps are the same in both. [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 09:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== Non-User Page Creation ==

I would like a category created called "Flowchart" so as to categorize pages like http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:MetalIndustry3.jpg or http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/From_Caravan_to_Happy_Dwarves

Thank you. [[User:Shenzahn|Shenzahn]] 13:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

== New page request ==

A [[DF2010:Large pot]] page would be nice. [[User:ZCM|ZCM]] 03:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Can you please enable the creation of new pages for my account. I use to have this ability but somewhere it seems to have disappeared. I was going to add small pages for beekeeping and wax working. [[User:Profit|Profit]] 18:14, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

== Page creation requests ==

Can you please create [[Template:B12Forum]] & [[Template:DFFD]]? I plan on creating up the links to the Bay12 Forums & DF File Depot with these templates. And [[Template:Release date]] I plan to use that for release dates on graphic packs & mods. 「[[User:gu1dry|'''gu1dry''']]」[[User talk:gu1dry|⊤]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gu1dry|¢]] 10:04, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
*Still waiting for the pages to be created or to be told "no".... 「[[User:gu1dry|'''gu1dry''']]」[[User talk:gu1dry|⊤]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gu1dry|¢]] 21:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

== User:hapes page ==

I would like to put up quantummenace's aquifer piercing method. Can you allow me access to my use page so I can do that? Thanks.
[[User:Hapes|Hapes]] 17:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

== New page request ==

Could you add a page for {{L|magma piston}}s? I'll add my edits to the {{L|magma}} page for now, but I'm worried I'm going to make that page too cluttered. -[[User:Norseman|Norseman]] 08:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

== Yet another new page request ==
I would like the [[DF2010_Talk:Gear_assembly]] page created, thanks in advance

== Labrynth Page? ==

I found a labrynth in adventure recently, and went through it, documenting everything along the way.

Perhaps a wiki page devoted to labyrinthes.. hm.. labyrinthi?.. hmph.. would be a good idea?

I took a whole bunch of screenshots and stuff that I could write from.

- acetech09 (0153 UTC Apr 6)

== royal jelly page ==

I think we need a royal jelly page. I'm however not experienced in making one could someone set up a template?

== user page request ==

Hello, I'd like a user page please! --[[User:Knaveofstaves|Knaveofstaves]] 14:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
:Created. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 14:33, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

== New Page Request: ==

<s>[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:ANormalUsername1/Aceangel I need this made, please. Thanks!]</s>
Never mind! Thanks anyways! --[[User:ANormalUsername1|ANormalUsername]] 01:55, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I'm new here :) [[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Chester]]

== User Page Request #9001 ==
Haha sweet I get the 9001st user page!!! [[User:Pfifo]]

== Need a redirect created ==

{{L|Danger rooms}} should probably redirect to {{L|Danger room}}, especially given that there was a link to {{L|Danger rooms}} in {{L|Training weapon}}. (I replaced it with [[Danger room|Danger rooms]] (Links to [[Danger room|Danger room]]))--[[User:Cam94509|Cam94509]] 21:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

== User page request ==

I reckon I should have a user and user talk page since I've done a few edits and someone might want to discuss them with me. Thanks. [[User:Vitriolum|Vitriolum]] 01:37, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

:I see to have the ability to do this so I went ahead and did it. --[[User:Ral|Ral]] 03:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

== search error ==

searching for "plant/animal" generates quite a few lines of "Warning: preg_match() [function.preg-match]: Unknown modifier 'a' in /var/www/dfwiki/includes/SearchEngine.php on line 1169"

== User Page Request for Root Infinity ==

I want to have a user page - I've been doing some logic work on the forums (see [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=86316 here] for the details so far), and I wish to be able to post designs on my user page temporarily, and/or for the more specialized logic (JK/T/D flip-flops; (de)multiplexers, et cetera. Can you please set this up for me?

Also, is there anything that you want me to do? I like doing minor editing, and also like doing logic-based things.

--[[User:Root Infinity|Root Infinity]] 02:28, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

== Sidebar broken on Konqueror? ==

See [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85834 here] - basically the sidebar is pushed to down below the bottom of the page.
--[[User:Root Infinity|Root Infinity]] 02:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

==User Page==

I'd like to upload my tileset with screenshot and make a user page, could you give me permission for that?

[[User:Vidumec|Vidumec]] 19:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

== Want to Upload Image of World for Worldgen Examples ==

I added a world to the worldgen examples page but I don't have permission to upload an image of it. ~~Johnnydigs

== User page request ==

I'd like to have a user page, please. --[[User:Triggs|Triggs]] 23:45, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Me too, please. --[[User:Kaleb702|Kaleb702]] 22:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

== Pop-up ad ==

Just got a pop-up ad. Since this is the first one I've seen on the wiki, I figured it might be something you're trying to avoid and this one slipped through. The URL for the ad:

http://survey.suitesmart.com/survey.sp?PAG=H;GID=15896;SID=100472;CRE=227961984;PLA=327539066;ADI=227961984;REF=fw.adsafeprotected.com/rjsi/at/10266/119149/CHI/iview/327539066/direct;wi.160;hi.600/01?click=http://a.rfihub.com/aci/128_0_YWE9MjQ3MTksMTE0NDA1LDIyOTExLDIzMzY2ODEsMTczOSwzOTA1OSxsdGdZNHFzYjFRNlUscCw5OTksNDY4Myw2NTM3MywyNzQzLDkzMDcmcmI9NDQ1JnJlPTEyMzg2;DOM=view.atdmt.com;PAT=/CHI/iview/327539066/direct;wi.160;hi.600/01;SEA=click=http://a.rfihub.com/aci/128_0_YWE9MjQ3MTksMTE0NDA1LDIyOTExLDIzMzY2ODEsMTczOSwzOTA1OSxsdGdZNHFzYjFRNlUscCw5OTksNDY4Myw2NTM3MywyNzQzLDkzMDcmcmI9NDQ1JnJlPTEyMzg2

-- [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 16:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

:It's unlikely to be an adware infection , given that I'm running Linux. -- [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 17:26, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

== User page request ==

It would be really great if you could create my user page.
Thanks in advance!

[[User:Bionic|Bionic]] 19:32, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

== User page request ==

Hello there, could you create a user page for me?
Tack snälla.

-- [[User:Mackeroni the Janitor|Mackeroni the Janitor]] 11:32, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

== "Indent with space" box should be monospaced ==

If you indent with text with a space, like this:

BLAH BLAH

It uses a proportional font. However, a lot of pages use it as if it was monospaced, which messes up the diagrams in them. Rather than changing all of them to use a diagram template, it'd probably be easier to change indent-with-space to use a monospaced font. -- [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 01:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

:Okay, the problem is on my end. For some reason, my browser doesn't accept the CSS "font-family: monospace;", but wants "font-family: mono;" instead. -- [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 02:20, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

::I'd accidentally set my browser's monospaced font to be proportional. ''*smacks forehead*'' -- [[User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 03:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

== want to make user page ==

Hello,
I want to make a user page of me. Please kindly tell me the procedure to create a user page.

== (another) User page request ==

Just a redirect to the *other* page by the same name, perhaps?
[[User:Armok|Armok]] 01:17, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
(why was this name not taken yet? I mean, really...)

== cool Forgotten Beast screeny ==

"The Forgotten Beast Usa Luralutesh has come! A huge blob of vomit. It has a long hanging tail and it undulates rhythmically. Beware it's poisonous vapors!"
Give me a yell for a copy to put on wiki. --[[User:Yellow|Yellow]]

== I Am Familiar With Rubu on Rails ==

I'm familiar with Ruby on Rails and would love to get involved in any sort of project to hone my skills.

I am also an avid Dwarf Fortress fan ( :P Ok, so that much was probably already obvious) and would love to work on a project to contribute to the community. :-)

[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 03:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Emi

2011-09-16T03:31:37Z

Burlingk: /* I Am Familiar With Rubu on Rails */ new section

Talk:Orthogonal

2010-07-17T03:21:07Z

Burlingk:

Is this page necessary? I don't think it says anything that can't be said in the relevant articles. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 03:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
::I would say that it depends. How many relevant articles are there? If it applies to more than two or three articles, then saying it in one place can be a good thing. That way, instead of defining it like twenty times, they can just say <nowiki>[[</nowiki>[[Orthogonal]]<nowiki>]]</nowiki> and move on to the article as a whole, adding four strokes instead of four hundred. --[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 03:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Orthogonal

2010-07-17T03:19:07Z

Burlingk:

Is this page necessary? I don't think it says anything that can't be said in the relevant articles. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 03:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
::I would say that it depends. How many relevant articles are there? If it applies to more than two or three articles, then saying it in one place can be a good thing. That way, instead of defining it like twenty times, they can just say [[Orthogonal]] and move on to the article as a whole, adding four strokes instead of four hundred. --[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 03:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Orthogonal

2010-07-17T03:18:52Z

Burlingk:

Is this page necessary? I don't think it says anything that can't be said in the relevant articles. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 03:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
::I would say that it depends. How many relevant articles are there? If it applies to more than two or three articles, then saying it in one place can be a good thing. That way, instead of defining it like twenty times, they can just say [[Orthogonal]] and move on to the article as a whole, adding four strokes instead of four hundred. --[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 03:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Magmawiki

2010-07-08T01:05:30Z

Burlingk: /* A Thought on Advertisement banners */

Post questions or comments about the ongoing Magmawiki project here.

==Question!==
Do crossed out features mean that they have been fully developed, or that they've been scrapped? --[[User:PurelyAtomic]] 02:44, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

:It means they've been developed. Also, make sure to end your posts with your signature (<nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>) by clicking the 10th button to the right. --[[User:SenorPwnage|Señor Pwnage]] 22:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

== Thoughts on the new skin ==
It took me a while to find the "main page" link using the Magmawiki skin; i.e. I only just noticed it.
Wouldn't it be better to have a link along the top? Or some sort of home page image?

Also, would it be possible to have a fixed width version of the Magmawiki skin that's say 800 or 1000px wide rather then fluid 100%?
Just some thoughts. I like what I see so far. --Markavian 06:54, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

== A Thought on Advertisement banners ==

I know this may seem a little bit of an odd comment, but here goes.

I am perfectly fine with add banners and the like. They may not be pretty in general, but bandwidth is not free.

I would like to comment however, that all the adds I see here are for imvu, and they are only barely safe for work. For that matter, some of them cross that line in most work places policy. :P And to be honest, the text portion of the imvu adds are often worse than the pictures.

I like to access the wiki from work on occasion to plan things out for when I am playing at home, or just to contribute in general. I am just not sure how to explain to my co-workers, or my boss for that matter, when they walk by why there are somewhat clothed cartoon characters mimicking sex acts on the computer screen. >:P Not sure if "It's just an add banner!" is a good excuse or not. ^^;; [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 01:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Make your own weapons

2010-06-30T02:53:35Z

Burlingk: /* Numbers */ new section

==Awkward title?==

I get that this is what the 40d article was called, but wouldn't 'Forging Guide' or something similar be better? The current one is awkwardly titled and uses improper grammar anyway (Mak''ing'' your own weapons would be proper). IMO redirecting this to a new Forging Guide page would be better, and with the new version out, right now is the most appropriate time to do so. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not even sure of the necessity of this article. [[DF2010:Weapon]] would probably be a better place for it. Guides should only be made if there is sufficient information that it would clog up the main page on the subject, like bedroom designs. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 01:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

::I vote we just redirect this to [[DF2010:Weapon]] for now, and put all the info there. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 01:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I do see the use of the article (mostly the old one) as a guide - see the [[40d:Make_your_own_weapons|40d version of it]] for what I mean. If it were retitled, cleaned up, and adapted to include blacksmithing and armorsmithing I could definitely see its use as a more heavily-detailed 'forging guide.' The 'metalsmith's forge' page seems too much about the workshop than its purpose to put it there though. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Not "weapon". This should have a link ''from'' weapon.
::::The need for this article ''was'' mainly for the newbie who wanted to save on those damn expensive (300?) axes, which is not as much of a consideration now. But it also walks them thru how to create weapons, which is a bit of a mystery to the new player. True, every subsection is redundant to some other article, but a new player would have to find and digest about 5 different articles to understand what is on this one page - starting build, ore, smelting, weapon, weaponsmith, maybe non-Dwarf's Guide to rock - yay.
::::The title is awkward, agreed, but, sim to the Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock, it's not a "tier one" article, it's a specialty topic, narrowly focused to one purpose, and expanding on several indirectly associated tier-one concepts. The fact that axes are now less expensive (17 for a wood one!) doesn't mean that it's not useful to the new player. Reworking it to a "Forging Guide" is a great idea imo - better name, more widely applicable, and the current specific material can be a subsection. Take the basic concept and have (sub)subsections (or just a table) on chains, anvils, armor - every commonly needed metal item, w/ what is needed re raw materials and skill. Use "forge an axe" as a step-by-step example, and I think it's a winner. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Cool beans. I'm interested in this, so I'll give it a shot sometime after the weekend, probably Monday. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 20:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Really, there still are savings. 17 points is a lot to pay for something made for 3 points. So, a Forging Guide is only for the forging aspect, and ignoring the roles of the carpenter. And that is still considered making your own weapons. Though, maybe this could be named something like "The non-dwarf's guide to weaponmaking" or even combined "The non-dwarf's guide to everything" for every guide in one.--[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 22:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::'...to everything' would be a monster of a page and incredibly unnavigable. Adding 'embark strategies' to the embark page would be nice, but the pros/cons of stuff and the math of it isn't quite the same - I'm talking about removing the 'embark' aspect of this page entirely and replacing it with a how-to-forge-everything-and-how-much guide and a quick table of material costs. I dunno, Albedo gets what I'm playing at. When I have a draft up it'll make more sense. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 23:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the focus is changed from "bring this on embark" to "here's how you <s>make</s> ''forge'' stuff from scratch" (metal only, if all basic sub-types). Then, at the very bottom, can be a minor subsection about what to bring on embark to achieve the above w/ diff metals, sim to the [[40d:Make_your_own_weapons#What_to_bring_in_your_wagon|"What to bring"]] subsection. (Also note that the "weapons grade" metals are now no longer the same sliding scale for weak/good/better/best weapons.) 
Dree - there is already a "non-dwarf's guide to everything" - it can be found '''[[Main_Page|here]]'''.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==Wagonite==
Possibly a silly observation, but you can break your [[wagon]] down into three wood logs - for the truly economical, this could shave 9 points off the first builds (64 -> 54 for bronze and 84 -> 75 for steel) and less for the second builds.
- [[User:Ancient History|Ancient History]] 16:47, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
:Eh... true enough, but the supplied builds are not COMPLETE builds. They don't consider how much other stuff you might want to bring along, and as written they don't go into detail about how to use the supplies. They're there more as example calculations. Somebody might want to use the wagonite for bed supplies, while somebody else might prefer it for barrels, and a third person might need it to build workshops. If you're going into a heavily forested region, chopping trees is more useful than buying logs, so you might use the wagonite to get the process started and then start whacking trees for further wood. If you're embarking on a glacier, though, you'll really only have your starting logs, so you'll spend on those and the wagonite will just be a drop in that bucket. So me "spending" the wagonite here isn't as useful to a reader as me spending 3 or 9 points on logs. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Numbers ==

I am not at home at the moment, so I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can already tell you that the math on this page is way off on a few things (not everything).

I know that coke and charcoal cost 10pts each at embark.
I don't remember if copper is 6 or 9 for the ore, but I know that a copper bar is 10.

There are a few other things.

I am adding this article to my watch list so that I can find it easily when I get home, and I will try to clean it up a bit. :)

[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 02:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

File talk:Focusgroup 16.PNG

2010-06-30T02:25:02Z

Burlingk: /* Wow */

Raw Doom. Hellish Smiles. This was destined to happen to her. --[[User:Sz|Sz]] 23:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That must be one heck of a window. [[User:Borogove|Borogove]] 22:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Brutal. [[Special:Contributions/68.43.43.52|68.43.43.52]] 20:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

"Looks like the addition of the ☼Clear Glass Window☼ to the dwarf anger management classroom was a success." - Last words of expedition leader Urist McDwarf before being beaten to death by his violent but happy secretary.--[[User:Codeknight|Codeknight]] 22:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

== Wow ==

A Psychotic sociopath. O.o;;

All indications from what I am reading are that you could be calmly talking to her, cheerful as can be, and then suddenly, you mention that the flowers are pretty, and bam! Your minced dwarf.... And five seconds later she is idly chatting to the next guy who walks in not even noticing the horrified look on his face. ;P

[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 02:25, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Biome

2010-06-20T08:33:03Z

Burlingk:

Nice to have visual representation of the climates, now do we know the temperature range of each climate (in Fahrenheit and urists preferably)? This will help us further determine advantages/disadvantages of a site.
Of course an in-game thermometer script, for both kinds of game play and in the site finder, where it shows the seasonal temperatures, would be nice as well, if not totally doable.
- EricBlank

Why does a search for 'alignment' direct me here? There is no information regarding alignment on this page. Seems like it should direct you to the Surroundings page. [[Special:Contributions/203.217.90.130|203.217.90.130]] 06:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:Because Alignment in this game deals primarily with the kinds of creatures you will encounter and is a function of the biome more than anything else. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 08:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Biome

2010-06-20T08:32:51Z

Burlingk:

Nice to have visual representation of the climates, now do we know the temperature range of each climate (in Fahrenheit and urists preferably)? This will help us further determine advantages/disadvantages of a site.
Of course an in-game thermometer script, for both kinds of game play and in the site finder, where it shows the seasonal temperatures, would be nice as well, if not totally doable.
- EricBlank

Why does a search for 'alignment' direct me here? There is no information regarding alignment on this page. Seems like it should direct you to the Surroundings page. [[Special:Contributions/203.217.90.130|203.217.90.130]] 06:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Because Alignment in this game deals primarily with the kinds of creatures you will encounter and is a function of the biome more than anything else. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 08:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Gorilla

2010-06-20T06:32:36Z

Burlingk: Didn't mention dungeon master

{{CreatureInfo v0.31|name=Gorilla|symbol=G|color=0:0:1
|biome=
* {{L|Forest#Tropical moist broadleaf forest|Tropical moist broadleaf forest}}
* {{L|Tropical}} freshwater {{L|swamp}}
* Tropical saltwater swamp
* {{L|Mangrove}} swamp
}}
{{av}}{{Quality|Fine|15:22, 5 June 2010 (UTC)}}

''A huge ape found in the forest. It lives in small groups eating plants. The groups are lead by a large dominant male with a silver back.''

Gorillas are giant apes which can easily kill an unarmed peasant. Usually appearing in small groups, it is best to avoid close contact with these beasts.

Gorillas are trainable into war/hunting gorillas once the Dungeon Master arrives. See {{L|Kennel}} for how this is done, and for a list of other trainable creatures.

{{gamedata}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Creatures}}
{{Category|Animals}}

File talk:Doom.png

2010-05-20T06:28:28Z

Burlingk: /* Suggested Caption */

== What is this? ==

What's all the water for? I'm guessing it is either an entrance drowning chamber or a swimming pool, but looking at the image closely it doesn't seem to be serving either purpose. [[User:Ninjinto|Ninjinto]] 02:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:Judging by some of the features, I would say that it is/was an attempt at a waterfall that didn't quite work out--[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 02:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
::The caption agrees with this - "GODS DANGIT MELBUL AND YOUR WATERFALLS!" --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

== Suggested Caption ==

And that is when I realized something was not quite right with the well..... [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 06:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

File talk:Doom.png

2010-05-20T06:28:04Z

Burlingk: /* What is this? */

== What is this? ==

What's all the water for? I'm guessing it is either an entrance drowning chamber or a swimming pool, but looking at the image closely it doesn't seem to be serving either purpose. [[User:Ninjinto|Ninjinto]] 02:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:Judging by some of the features, I would say that it is/was an attempt at a waterfall that didn't quite work out--[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 02:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
::The caption agrees with this - "GODS DANGIT MELBUL AND YOUR WATERFALLS!" --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

== Suggested Caption ==

And that is when I realized something was not right with the well..... [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 06:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-02-12T01:40:21Z

Burlingk: /* Tips for living with economy? */

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)
:::This is exactly what makes it an exploit. If the system took into account inflation and supply and demand, then this would not be an exploit. The fact that it does not count these things means that the infinite hauling jobs pay out pleanty of cash while achieving no net bennefit to the community, but are still not effecting the value of money. :P It is like turning your dwarven colony into a welfare state without the economic drawbacks! [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 20:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-02-12T01:39:49Z

Burlingk: /* Tips for living with economy? */

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)
:::This is exactly what makes it an exploit. If the system took into account inflation and supply and demand, then this would not be an exploit. The fact that it does not count these things means that the infinite hauling jobs pay out pleanty of cash while achieving no net bennefit to the community, but are still not effecting the value of money. :P It is like turning your dwarven colony into a welfare state! [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 20:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Pregenerated worlds

2009-02-11T10:30:13Z

Burlingk: /* Can't use the middle map sorry */

== Standardization ==
Along with creating a template for the entries, the images need to all be with the standard character sets and not with a graphical set. It's not very useful to be looking at images one is unfamiliar with - may as well not upload the images. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:39, 10 December 2007 (EST) 
::Definitely something to work on with standardizing the information on seeds. Though maybe later, as all you really need to be able to look at is the X marking locations and size of the box on the local map. I finished categorizing the seeds, and later will be trying to work out a general format for seed entries/later submittals. --[[User:KaelGotRice|KaelGotRice]] 18:07, 10 December 2007 (EST)
 
Personally, I find the way Chariot implemented his seed page[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Chariot/SEED_196405198] wonderful. The seed entry here on the pregen page could use a little more detail (OS&DF version for instance) but the separate page with site-by-site breakdowns is great! I've got little/no experience with wikis, but I'm wondering if it would be possible to make a template to do that, and make it easy for any new seeds to be added using the template. Among other things, it would keep discussion of seeds specific to their own pages, and leave this discussion free to concentrate on the generalities of seeds and pre-gen worlds. In addition, it should either be reclassified or duplicated to indicate that it's also a 0/low rejects seed. --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:10, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)
:I made a quickly thrown together template for seeded worlds [[Template:Seeded World]], and have made a copy of Pauls world (for .33f) in it. It still needs alot of tuning (especially conditional #if for when entries are left open), as well as better handling (or rather handling at all) for worlds with multiple good starting locations. (Not really sure how this last point can be handled most cleanly from the perspective of the user.) Interrested in feedback as to the usefulness of such a template.. --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 18:35, 17 December 2007 (EST)
::Looks nice and pretty functional. As to additional sites, would it be possible to use templates within templates? Specifically, reproducing the current template for the site portion multiple times within it's own set of show/hide areas for each site. Just an idea on that coming from someone that doesn't know squat about advanced wiki-ing. Unless empty entries break the template, should they need handling at all? (since I read somewhere that this wiki doesn't do ifs. Great Work so far! --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 19:45, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Clean up? ==
It was asked why I deleted a seed earlier, and I may just go back and edit it so that it mentions that I tested the seed on two different machines and got vastly different results on the seed than the original seed poster did (see history for seed number). Also, what is your guy's opinions on deleting/redoing entries without maps/pictures or without any major sites of interest? Example: Seed 0 mentions a spot to start at a terrifying volcano but you cannot even embark there.

PS - I'm going to move seeds according to quick creation time (low rejects) and features if possible.

Also, added a nice find to the pre-generated world's list.
--[[User:KaelGotRice|KaelGotRice]] 16:42, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::Unless we are speaking at cross purposes ... I am playing a game right now at the suggested start spot from Seed 0. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 17:27, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:::I'll just nuke the useless volcano in the tundra image for now as this is fairly common and taking up room - and you cannot embark anywhere near there. I understand that the seed is worth keeping because of 0 rejects. But in terms of useless information taking up space, that was the point I was trying to make. --[[User:KaelGotRice|KaelGotRice]] 17:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::::I see what you're talking about - I think that picture was just there to show that a volcano was in fact in the tundra, because that isn't the photo associated with the place s/he was suggested one should play. That's the other photo. The only purpose to the one you're refering to is to demonstrate that it's indeed a cool map, I suppose. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 18:30, 10 December 2007 (EST)

: Well I asked you why you deleted the seed I put back up, if it really doesn't work on other computers then I have no problem taking it down, but I've had no trouble regenerating it and I've had no problem generating other people's seeds. Something you need to do though is make sure you don't alter the settings at all. If there are issues where it only works on certain computers, that's interesting in and of itself, but I haven't seen any evidence of that myself so far. I should add, I do support cleaning up, the page is a mess beyond belief, and I agree some of the seeds are amazingly stupid. [[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 18:16, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:: If it works on your computer under repeatable circumstances, leave it up but have a warning tag of some sort :) We could use good seeds. When I have time I will be purging some of the more useless seeds and attempting to clean up here and there. Maybe have some information about your system info/processor/windows or linux? We don't know how these things sometimes affects seed generation. Don't feel bad, the seed I just posted I found out has variable flux/farmable land/sand based on which computers you generated from - and deleting the seed was just jumping the gun on my part.--[[User:KaelGotRice|KaelGotRice]] 19:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::: I've repeated it a few times. Processor is AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200 Dual Core 90nm 939-pin, OS is XP SP2. Now that you mention that flux thing I do seem to remember someone mentioning something once about a slightly modified map. I'll try to find that at some point to see if there were any relevant details. [[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 14:13, 11 December 2007 (EST)

===Removal of older pre-generated worlds===
[[User:N9103]] and [[User:Fedor]] had a bit of a back and forth as to cleaning up older PreGen (Pre-generated) worlds. 
Fedor brought up that some of the changes in map generation since then are for the better, and how most people would probably expect the most recent generation rules to be in effect. 
Edward brought up how the actual world had no changes and were still perfectly usable. 
Fedor brought up that many minerals and gems were typically missing in maps generated in 33e and earlier. Edward agrees on this point. 
Edward and Fedor came to the agreement that it should be a community decision as to whether older (33e&f) PreGens should be left on the wiki. 

Please leave your opinion for this decision, along with any suggestions!

:Leave them on the page with a note that the rock-layer-generating code changed, so the same worlds generated under the current version would have different mineral abundances. If they were incompatible or somehow vastly inferior, then I'd agree with their removal, but having different minerals strikes me as quite minor.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:57, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:For the downloadable worlds leave them as is, or update descriptions if anything actually changes. Although I thought that the downloadable ones would fixed at that point. As for the seeds I'd either leave them there if they are still good, or possible archive them to a pregenerated worlds/version page if we get too many. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:24, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:Remove, users can check the history of the page if they want the older stuff. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:28, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:They could be moved to the seed pages for older versions. A lot of the older maps have completely different features(magma, hidden fun stuff, underground lakes) than advertised when played on 38c. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 09:49, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

== Logging sites ==
I like the idea of logging specific sites to seeds, but how is the best way we can organize this? for a good location explaination you probably need a picture. But if we add a lot of pictures to each seed we get a large cluttered page. What shall we do? Add subpages for specific seeds? Try to think of a generic way to log nice sites (for example: Seed: 12323241 coords:12,13 has: ruins, vent, pit, trees, iron , gold, undead elephants of death, more eagels than the US has fighter planes, etc). (Is it possible to determine the coords of a site on the world map?)

And also, I think it is possible to create non number seeds. I'm going to test this.
--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 08:34, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
: No for non numbers. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 09:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

The forum had a good suggestion. Lets store all the seeds that reject few regions while you create them. (Or at least reject as few regions as possible). The first one with the vulcano in the woods rejects 9 regions. The seed 2 gives a world after 3 rejects according to the forum. http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001234 --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 09:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

This thread should be interesting. There's even a world with zero rejects. 
http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001247 [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 02:34, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anybody know how to link to a specific post of the forum? [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 12:38, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, there isn't a way. This version of the bulletin board code does not place "name" links within the generated forum thread tables as some others do, so no appending of a "#name" to the URL can possibly scroll the browser directly to the post. The best we can do is link to the correct page of the thread and rely on the reader to scroll to the correct post him/herself. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Coordinates ==

This was mentioned briefly on the forum, but we should make some rules for finding specific locations on the map,
As in there is a magma vent in a tile with no volcano near at this position
The question is whether or not to use coordinates that refer to the map you get when you export your map (the big one), or to refer to coordinates in the 3 sections thats show up when you are selecting were to embark to. I'm actually not positive, they match up.
I'm pretty sure the map you get from exporting is 257x308, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think the middle map of the embark mode is exactly the same, I just looked through it, and it seems this way, but I thought (and maybe this was a remnant from 32a) that it didn't if someone else can confirm or deny it that'd be nice.

Anyhow I propose using that middle map as the basis of coordinates: we use the most general map (which is 15x16) and follow it by actual map position, and lastly where in the local map it is. also I propose using what tile it is to define it on each map as well.

here's an example (which you can verify using [SEED:2260691361])

General: (yellow n) 
14 Lat, and 2 lon 
Coordinates: (yellow i) 
220 lat, and 33 lon 
Location: (green i)-(green i) 
1-3 lat, and 5-7 lon 

You have here a elf forest retreat.
 
--[[User:Bevilr|Bevilr]] 22:03, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

====Can't use the middle map sorry====
It's always centered on the cursor. Also the large exported map - it may be bugged presently as it seems possible to find regions that are off the edge of what's exported. What would be possible would be to count the steps past where the position on the world (right-most) map changed, this seems to happen every 16 X or Y steps. Suggest indexing from the bottom left (top right if negative values used).
[[User:Djp|Djp]] 01:10, 22 November 2007 (EST)

:Use the world map to see where the approximate location is on the full map and the middle map for landmarks in that vicinity to figure out where the exact site is.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:45, 23 November 2007 (EST)

::I know this input is way late,but I think that the images that show the screen with all three maps are probably best. The map on the right (world) shows the general part of the world, the middle map (region) shows where they are in the region, and the left map (local). If they can provide this then the person can see EXACTLY where they are talking about. The only draw back is that it may require third party software to get the screen cap, I am not sure. I know Gimp is easy to use to get screen caps, and windows can do screen caps without extra software. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 05:30, 11 February 2009 (EST)

== Individual entries ==

I like the way #3089130238 laid out the information for that seed. We could definitely use a standard layout for this page. Is there anything else we should be including for each seed, besides the number of map rejections?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:05, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I definitely agree with this, and would love to see some sort of template, for (A) each world, and (B) sites of interest in each world--[[User:Bevilr|Bevilr]] 22:06, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
::A layout would be good, but keep in mind that the required bits should be accessible from either the exportable world map or fortress mode site selection. Otherwise, it could become an ungodly hassle to fill out the form and then there'd be no more additions. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 07:22, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Seed 92003: I like the volcano named "The Big Flame." It makes me laugh! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:56, 17 November 2007 (EST)

Can we please put in seed 1337? (it has 2 or 4 rejects... i cant remember which, if absolutly nothing else... and it has lots of good stuff on it to... i found so many good sites... it was hard to pick which one to... well pick.) but really, its seed 1337, check it out. --[[User:pbhead|pbhead]] 18:20 November 2007 (EST)

:What was good about the sites? People sometimes have very different ideas of what makes for a good world.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:56, 21 November 2007 (EST)

== Template ==

{{Seeded World
|seed = 4265985437
|name = The Legendary Ever-Realm
|rejects = 51
|version = .33f
|genname = RANDOM
|link = http://hyperfileshare.com/d/f91fae26
|comment = This is a most rude stealing of Paul's map above for the purpose of testing this template, changes are bound to happen, please comment in discussion thread/make improvements as you see fit.
|image = [[Image:4265985437.PNG|thumb|500px]]
|features = [[Magma]], cave river, chasm, adamantine, sand, trees, flux and iron.
|missing = Giant cave spiders??
}}

I moved this example template from the main article. Discussion should go at [[Template talk:Seeded World]]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:22, 23 December 2007 (EST)

==Organization==
I think we should try to better organize the seeds, into a table or such, something like [[User:Valdemar/Seeds|this]]. It would really help to see all of the seeds at a glance. We should also try to take all screenshots using 0x517A5D's excellent [[Utilities#Regional_Prospector|Regional Prospector]], to reveal all the hidden mountain features. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 15:42, 26 December 2007 (EST) 
I'd like that, particularly the "other" column. It leaves room for unusual things that people might want to know. 
There's also room to go beyond the regional prospector options to record things like cliffs, roads, wars, sedimentary layers, obsidian and so on that people sometimes look for. Maybe instead of a simple yes/no details could be used where available. So for something with 3 layers of soil would list 3 instead of yes. Sand might list black, yellow or multiple if there's several colors. Either the rock layers could get a column, like soil, and then have gabbro or marble or whatever listed or could the rock layer just list the kind of rock (ign-ext, sed, etc.) and then use a click-to-hide spoiler type thing to show detail? (The contents list on various pages has it, but I can't see how to do it with other things, if you even can.) (Rambling 'cause I'm at work.)[[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:17, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Re: 4265985437 - The Legendary Ever-Realm ==

On Vista, it is generated with the same name, but with 71 rejects and a completely different map. (33g) Alas! [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 00:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:That's because of changed map generation algotythm in 33g. (Maybe this should be placed in discussion?) [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:02, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:There's a download link provided for that world, so just download it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:38, 28 December 2007 (EST)

==Multiple Continents and STUFF!==
Just poking around here. Has anyone seen/generated a world with multiple continents? I've seen plenty of Island, but there's always only one continent and all the "oceans" look more like oversized lakes. Could someone post a world with multiple coninents and if possible realistic oceans? Oh, and has anyone noticed that the polar icecaps are more like large tundras rather than, well, large glaciers... My worlds usually end up so warm, I wonder if the dwarfs have a problem with global warming. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:40, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:Depending on your definition of continent, I've gotten two separate land masses that weren't connected. But considering the scale of the DF Worlds, it's not surprising there aren't really convincing oceans. If you assume that each tile is about 1m², (pretty reasonable) then each DF world is only 38,654 km² (14,924mi²) in total surface area. Considering that the Land Surface Area of the Earth is oh, around 4,000 Times larger, and that's not even counting the water area... So yea, a world with a real ocean would be sorta like playing on the corner of a volcanic island. :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::Not to be rude, but I think you made a error in your calculations. Please do consider that Europe alone is more than ten million square kilometers. I think you made a error when you considered "dwarf" squares per embark squares per world squares. Also, considering that the world's biggest mountain is 8848m high and the highest DF mountains are 250 Z-levels high(if I remember correctly), one DF Z-level must be more than 35m. Even when the highest DF mountain would be 5000m, a Z-level should be 20m. At the same time one average story of a building is ca 4m and putting this into z-levels gives us a maximum mountain size of 1000m. Small, huh? Oh, don't forget that that is the height from the lowest bottom of an "ocean", meaning that the real values are even more ridiculous. I can't imagine a ocean in the DF world in your scale at all. Speaking of oceans, I just generated a world with an ridiculous ocean. It's less than 15x15 in size and doesn't even show up on the world map in embark screen. Then there's the stone layers. In a 40000km² area there should be no more than a handful of stone layers, but in a DF world there's hundreds!
::This is sounding very DF-critical, but I really love this game. It's just that that the world generation can be very weird. Oh! And to make this post even longer for kicks. I just generated a world where three oceans divide the world into two, what I would call, continents, but because of two small land bridges they are counted as one. Compare with N. + S. America and Europe + Asia + Africa. Nuff...
::PS. Did you manually add your sig to translate your nick? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 13:56, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::RE Land Mass: Total Earth Land Area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth Total DF Land Area: [[Regions]]
:::Why should DF world relate directly to the real world? Who says that DF mountains would even be as tall as Earth's? You made quite a few derivative calculations on a rather large assumption, IMO. All I've been trying to establish is that there really isn't a point to trying to compare the DF World to the real one. If you're trying to counter that argument, I'm really unsure what the point of most of your comments were. If you're trying to confirm it, then your comments still don't make much sense.
:::As for the sig, I added the normal signature to my nickname preference, changed the field manually, and that's where the signature comes from.--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:21, 29 December 2007 (EST)

==Smata Sagus download==
(The file doesn't work on my PC. I get a Fatal Error: "Missing Reaction Definition" -[[User:Zara|Zara]] 14:39, 30 January 2008 (EST))
:You're absolutely right, I'd forgotten about a couple of changes I made to the reactions. The same problem affected my other two uploaded worlds as well. My apologies. I've uploaded new copies which are made on an unmodified copy of 33g, so download it again and it will work. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 17:51, 30 January 2008 (EST)

I could not recreate exactly the starting area using the folder provided. The landscape has changed slightly. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 10:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT) [[Image:Smata Sagus Starting Area.JPG|none|thumb|The starting area is a bit different (v0.28.181.39e)]]
:Yeah, I imagine that's due to the way the game now smooths shores and mountain range edges beyond what it did back in 33g. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
::Will all the minerals and magma still be there? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 13:33, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Organization proposal ==

I propose to place all world seeds on subpages for their corresponding version and transcluding the page with the current world seeds onto the main pregenerated worlds page.
The idea would end up something like so:

''Pregenerated worlds''

<nowiki>==Seeds==</nowiki>

<nowiki>{{:Pregenerated worlds/0.27.173.38a}}</nowiki>

''Pregenerated worlds/0.27.173.38a''

(list of seeds and descriptions)

If we do it this way there won't be a need to move large blocks of text around when the version change kills seed compatibility; instead we can change which of the pages are transcluded onto the main seed page. Any thoughts? I will probably implement this tomorrow if noone objects. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:57, 6 February 2008 (EST)

:Very good idea, do you envision e.g. the page ''Pregenerated worlds/version.number'' to contain both "passive" seed information as well as true pregenerated downloadable worlds?-[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 08:36, 8 February 2008 (EST)

== [[Pregenerated_worlds#Near_perfect_4X5]] - seed #: 1038428822 ==

Has anyone managed to generated the world shown in the screenshot? I generated [SEED:1038428822] with an unmodified df_27_173_38a and the world is nothing like what's displayed in the screenshot. Possibly the original poster has modified raw files that caused it to be different? There isn't much said about modified raws changing the world generated. We probably should add something about that and ask people who have modified raws to post them alongside their seeds. Does anyone have much info regarding which raws can potentially effect worldgen? Also has anyone actually ever tested the fact that different names (non-random) or OSes cause different worlds to be generated or is that just something someone put there to try and explain why there are sometimes different worlds generated? I haven't tested either yet but both sound like strange things to cause a different world to me. --[[User:Someone(r)(c)(tm)|Someone(r)(c)(tm)]] 15:04, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:Operating system still causes a different output, too, as far as I know. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 16:04, 14 February 2008 (EST)
::Then we need to write an operating system... I had absolutely different world either. (There's still a possibility of typo in a seed)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:48, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:I think that that seed was for the last version (33g)--[[User:Dragonflare|Dragonflare]] 01:12, 15 February 2008 (EST)
:The Toady One himself has stated in his changelogs that OS and World name don't affect world gen. As for raws, I would assume *ANY* change to them would change the generation. Personally, I think that if you're using a mod, then you forfeit your world-posting privileges, since this is by far aimed at unmodded DF. Posting in a subpage of the mod itself would be different of course. JM2¢. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:31, 15 February 2008 (EST)
::Found this in the changelogs "12/19/2007: <snip> * made world generation results independent of custom name" so I'm removing the world name thing. I'm thinking of removing the OS thing as well unless someone really is sure it effects. Basically what you want to test is making the same seed using two operating systems with completely default DFs of the same version (I suggest redownloading from the site on both OSes to be sure because you might have modified the raws and forgotten or something) but I am some what doubtful that OS has any effect. I actually agree with Edward about people using mods not posting worlds but I was thinking it was possibly a bit extreme so didn't suggest it myself. Unless anyone has any objections or other suggestions perhaps we should implement it? Although probably any change to the raws effects worldgen in some way it would appear that since terrain seems to be generated first not all modifications result in completely different worlds. Since most of the seeds given here are aimed at good starting locations in the form of terrain features it's possible that some modifications to the raws won't effect it enough to change the terrain generated. Of course a 'no mods at all' policy would make things a lot simpler than a 'some mods are allowed' policy. --[[User:Someone(r)(c)(tm)|Someone(r)(c)(tm)]] 07:26, 15 February 2008 (EST)
:::iirc, Toady commented that OS shouldn't have any effect since DF makes its own random numbers. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:33, 15 February 2008 (EST)

== Pocket Worlds Impossible?? ==
I've tried numerous pocket sized universes but have always gotten 10,000+ rejects and I've given up. Does anyone have a seed for a pocket sized world? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 03:05, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
:Hmm seems some options I changed meant I couldn't generate pocket worlds. It worked fine with a fresh copy so I'll have to check what exact changes I had made which prevented it. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 03:53, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Ewèlina, The Enchanted Land ==

Rock salt is not a flux. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 22:34, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
:Well that sucks. I thought all the stones listed in white on the embark screen here flux. I live and learn. Updating article. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 01:32, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Is the seed right? coz i get the right world name but that map is different... – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Balistora|Balistora]]

The downloadable worlds were generated in a different version and won't generate the same in the current one. If you want a world to generate a copy of, look at the seeds section of the article. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Xah Rabin - The Dimension of Omen ==
This map needs a proper description of location and features.--[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 10:44, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

==Map Generation for 39a==
Since there are many more options available in the new version, just having a 'seed' isn't quite enough, esp if many options are changed. Maybe we could ask toady to get a settings import/export to a file or a hash sequence that we could enter in? Either that, or we need a whole new table and way to display these settings. [[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 00:39, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
:I added a [[Pregenerated_worlds#World_Generation_Parameter_Sets|parameter set section]]; IMO seeds are dead, parameter sets allow tons more control and they don't have to be typed in manually. --[[User:Zwergner|Zwergner]] 10:45, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

== I want a magma pipe + chasm bug ==

Can someone find me the seed for one of those bugged volcano ontop of a chasm things? I want to build my fortress near one of those. [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:20, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Design strategies

2009-02-11T04:39:57Z

Burlingk: /* Cave Adaptation */

Perhaps these explanations of how the various mining commands work should go under a Mining article. "Design strategies" seems like it would be more about layouts for kitchens and pump systems and whatnot. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 19:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
: I have inadvetently written an article on [[Digging]] which complements the work on this page. I suggest they be reviewed and relevant parts merged. This page will have a use in future for players to post their designs. I agree with '''BahamutZERO''' that this isn't the place to talk about Mining. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 22:41, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Flooded Entrance ==

I'd like to see some sample shots of that Flooded Entrance setup. It's my understanding that the screw pump only pulls water up, not pump it down. Maybe he meant a floodgate for dropping the water down a level. --[[User:Vinic|Vinic]] 16:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I think what he had was two rooms--one is the actual entrance way, sealed by doors--that have pumps on the level above, dumping thier output into a channel that leads into the room they aren't pumping from.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 16:43, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Sorry if I was ambiguous in my wording. Hopefully the accompanying screenshot removes any confusion in how it works. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 11:38, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

The idea is good but what I saw on those screenshots had immediately looked flawed to me. Even back when siege AI was broken trolls wandered to my experimental flood-the-sigers device (ironically) and quickly destroyed both the screw pump and the windmill. I am sure that they will also try to break any accessible axles and gears. So you should modify the design to keep all building destroyers (ideally including flying ones but not necessary as dragons are really rare and demons are avoidable) from leaving you with a permanently flooded entrance. The problem can be even worse with lava.--[[User:Another|Another]] 17:59, 16 December 2007 (EST)

== Choice of location ==

I think we should get some information up here on selecting a ''proper'' site to start digging your fortress. Sort of a list of ideal criteria to look for on the actual map after you've arrived, taking into account things like elevation, natural rock formations, water and magma, and accessibility. Sort of a guide to the ultimate defense, I suppose. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:47, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:Seconded. That would be indeed useful. --[[User:UltimaPhantom|UltimaPhantom]] 13:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==Defense Designs==
I think we should have separate page for defense schemes such as the new trap designs using machines and wall patterns and such. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:29, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Nifty designs? ==

Not sure if this is right page, but I'd love a step-by-step about building arenas. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)

== Workshop layout ==

Why are the inputs placed so far off the hallway in the "Wio" design? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a 'ladder' layout where each rail was a hallway and each rung was "iWo", so that haulers had easy access to both piles? Or better yet, a hallway with input stockpiles below the workshops, and another with output stockpiles above the workshops? I think the layout presented is pretty inefficient given the new 3rd axis.

== This page is strange to edit ==
If you edit a section of the page, it totally screws up the formatting of the entire page. I think it might have to do with the code and pre tags. [[User:Julius|Julius]] 14:21, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:I stripped out the code and pre tags and replaced them with leading spaces to preserve fixed width formatting.[[User:Julius|Julius]] 14:34, 13 November 2007 (EST)

== Access to Trade Depot ==

I thought it would be a good idea to have a seperate three-tile wide entrance to have the trade depot underground, behind defences, with a single tile wide access from a store-room for finished goods.

HOWEVER: If the drawbridge blocking the three-wide entrance is raised: the human merchant wagons bypass my settlement!

Maybe, closed drawbridges need to be included as accessable in the pathfinding algorithm?

Yes, my "Access to depot" screen is ''totally different'' with the drawbridge up vs down. It should be the same though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:14, 8 February 2008 (EST)

==Radial Design==
I've been using a radial design that works superb. The entire fortress is designed around a principle somewhat similar to that presented in the 'Moody Dwarves' section on the main page. With a single staircase running up and down the entire fortress, which everything is connected around.

The floors alternate workshop/storage. On workshop floors the diagonals immediate to the main stairway are mined out a couple spaces to make room for the first workshops; around those I start mining in straight lines and start a grid pattern. Storage floors I leave the wall of stone around the staircase with only one or two walls mined out for access and put doors there; everything around this is mined out. First floor is usually farm workshops, kennel, barracks, and dining. On the ground level I start by mining into a cave, clear out space for a trade depot, and mine out one spot where I build a single downward staircase; here the entire fortress starts. It works great and is very efficient, though it takes a while to get setup right.

For defense I prefer to locate the starting digging point up high and build a bridge to an inaccessible area of cliff. The bridge is retracted as invaders stream across it. Again, it takes a while to get started because you have to build a huge bridge, but worth it. The sole entrance to your fortress is also a single down stairway (unless you have backdoors or additional stairways), making it somewhat easy to defend here too.

I'm still a noob, so I'm sure people can add to this, but of my several fortresses the one I went with this design on has been my favorite and I think best operating establishment.

Below you can see a piece from around the central staircase, to see how the design should start. Notice that it is pretty modular, you can have two workshops pushed together, or you can separate them all, and you have a couple options on how you set up your entrances, connecting two workshops with one door, or leaving them with separate entrances. Up to you. Notice the initial diagonal terminates at a workshop, and starts the grid pattern.
W= workshop
D= door
┼= path
`= wall
{{qd|cols=18
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|`|`|`|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|`|`|`|`|`
|.|.|.|.|.|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|.|.|.|.|.|.
|`|`|`|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|.|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|`|X|`|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W}}
{{qd|cols=18
|W|W|W|W|W|W|`|.|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|W|W|W
|`|`|`|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`|┼|`|`|`
|.|.|.|.|.|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|.|.|.|.|.|.
|`|`|`|`|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|`|`|`|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|W|W|W|`|.|┼|W|W|W|┼|.|`|W|W|W|`|`
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`}}
{{qd|cols=18
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|W|W|W|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`
|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|.|`|`|`|`|`|`}}

[[User:Omnirizon|Omnirizon]] 23:59, 28 February 2008 (EST)

-----

I started using this design, but ran into a small problem: For some reason, even with all four diagonals leading into the room, they're unable to build a workshop though. I've so far only tried a mason's workshop since I'm interested in getting rid of all my excess stone by turning it into blocks for roads and walls (I want to have smooth roads and walls), and no matter which square I stick it in, they say that they "Cannot reach the work site" once they begin building. [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/urth/workshop.png] There's a link to a picture of the layout thus far. The workshop is in the bottom square, and when completed would only block out access from the top-right corner, still allowing traffic via the top-left corner. It even says they cannot reach the site if I stick it in the far north square, where both current entrances would remain intact. Why is it doing this? --[[User:Urthdigger|Urthdigger]] 04:44, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

== Beware: Traffic Problems ==

I think that one of the biggest mistakes new fortress designers make is not leaving enough space for traffic. If you build a fortress that is too compact/tight, you'll begin to see problems when you have 80+ dwarves all running around. This will be especially problematic in fortresses that use single width hallways. I'd suggest using 4-wide for main arteries, 3-wide for secondary roads, and 2-wide at minimum for anything other than a work/access tunnel.

== Gairabad's shameless self-promotion ==

I added a bunch of stuff to my [[User:Gairabad|user page]] on workshop layout design. In my humble opinion, it blows all the existing designs on this page right out of the water. You're welcome to incorporate it if you like. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 21:17, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Cave Adaptation ==

Not sure why, but when I follow the intructions on this section the stairway ends up listed as 'inside' and 'light'. As I understand it, unless it says outside it won't work.

I noticed that the instructions as listed say to replace the channeled area with flooring, that may be a missunderstanding there. This is in response to the person talking about things being inside anyway. I will try to give it a try soon and see what I get. Anyway, on to my actual comment. The posting mentions that telling dwarves to stay inside forbids them from using the stairs, a possible way arround this is to make sure that the exit has a door of some sort (since it is suggested to build a wall at the top level anyway) and then when you tell all dwarves to stay inside, lock the door, then tell them they can go outside again. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 23:39, 10 February 2009 (EST)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal

2009-02-11T03:31:38Z

Burlingk: /* I */

Use this discussion page to talk about any issues or ideas you have about the direction of this wiki. The community portal is a hub for directing our conciousness. Read the rules carefully, take them to heart, post here if you have any questions or you think the rules can be improved.

==Account Problems==
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

==AdBlock==
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Well after the fact, I know, but saw a related discussion elsewhere about disabling AdBlock to support fansites worth supporting, and I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if nearly everything got placed into an as-like folder to encourage whitelisting... but that's me. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 7 November 2008 (EST)

== Rule discussion ==

Z is pretty horrible, but not much point taking it out unless its to replace it with something better. (This whole setup is horrible, but that's irrelevant?) --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 21:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)

=== A ===

How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.

:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::I like rule A, it introduces the page, please keep it --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 16:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)

=== B and E ===

How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

:The be bold rule makes it's dramatic return! Victory! [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

=== I ===

Personally, I find that when the default tilesets are stretched (like [[:Image:Qs01.JPG]]), they become substantially uglier and less easy to follow than many of the user tilesets. Should they be disallowed under {{rule|I}}? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:If it displays that way on a computer with no alterations of settings, its by definition default. That's exactly the kind of display I see on my computer in fullscreen mode (although I do usually play with the 800x600 in windowed mode, but I wouldn't take a screenshot from that, i'd F11 over to fullscreen - and its aspect ratio is pretty close to my windowed mode ratio). It seems wrong to not allow what the game typically displays.
:I'm curious what you think the non-stretched aspect ratio is? I mean, I can't imagine settings which would actually make tiles look square.
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:10, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::Non-stretched, the 800x600 tileset is half that size (10x12). Stretched to 800x600, it's 10x24. This is the ratio of the tiles if you actually view the bmp. To put an end to this bickering, how about an "officially approved screenshot tileset" that is *gasp* NOT one of the two default tilesets, but matches their visual style while being less cramped. How about something in a... 10x16? [80x25 = 800x400] [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:47, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:::I'm against anything that creates unnecessary impediments to uploading useful images. If you use an extremely nonstandard tileset, that'll impair the usefulness of your images. However, as long as someone familiar with the standard tileset can look at an image and understand what is being illustrated, I would suggest the image is acceptable.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::I'm against anything that makes you do extra work to take screenshots. The default appearance on a computer screen should be acceptable. We should not have to write a how-to on how to get DF to display in a way appropriate for screenshots for the wiki. It should be 'take screen shot', 'upload screen shot', 'add screenshot to page'. Done. Bizarre formatting requirements are both a significant barrier to adding content to the wiki and tremendously stupid since screenshots are *advertisements* of the game as well as instructional, and we want people to look at screenshots and be correct in the belief that that is what they'll actually see in game. I don't care what the bmp file says the aspect ratio should be, I care what the game displays that aspect ratio as. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:49, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::Insofar as I can tell, that screenshot is at exactly the same aspect ratio and size as the game window I use. It's the 800x600 tileset, I believe. It's a bit on the tall side, but otherwise I don't see much problem with it, presumably because I see it every time I play the game. I vote letting people make screenshots in whatever shape or form they prefer. Within reason, of course.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:15, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:How about a wikiproject to improve screenshots, so people who care about these things can clean up screenshots rather than just complaining about them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 14:28, 21 December 2008 (EST)

From what I have seen, on a regular shaped CRT (4:3?) you can simply set the windowed and full screen, they look the same, just different sized, and are fairly clean. For instance, I play with 800x600 resolution, because when I play windowed it is a good window size, but it is also one of the resolutions that most monitors will switch to and from easily under most any OS. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 22:31, 10 February 2009 (EST)

=== Serious Rules ===

Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.

::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.

:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:::::While I agree with some of your points, I'd like to say that this is not a "professional" wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself. If you want to create a Whole Complex and Indexed Body of Rules About Everything, go for it and as [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] said, editors should be able to choose between the two. I just don't see the need. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)

=== Ack! The ToC! The ToC with a "1.26"! ===

...why do we need section headers for each of the rules? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

:I've fixed the TOC. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:17, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

::Out of curiousity - how? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:40, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Smoke and mirrors: He removed the ToC and created a sim-ToC. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

=== W ===

Word-of-mouth: If you hear someone saying something new about the game, don't post it without trying it out yourself. You might have misunderstood something or your friend might have expressed him/herself wrongly. 
Something like that.--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 10:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:That goes in the "Rule discussion" section. *ka-move* Also, remember to not put blank lines in a comment by a single user.</offtopic>
:I don't like the rule. It discourages participation in the wiki. If they add something of questionable merit, they're supposed to use the verify template, as stated in rule V. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:39, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::Will remember that in the future.
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karppa]] 02:16, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

=== W 2 ===

There are no rules about humorous content yet. I notice that references to the '''Dwarf pensioners club''' instead of '''(fortress) Guard''' have been taken out of "fact-based" articles so maybe rule W could be:

:'''Wit''' can be hard to recognise once it has been written down. It is best if it is used on clearly humour or story related pages, talk or user pages, but kept to a minimum in fact-based articles like [[Dwarf]] or [[Summer]].

This puts it "on the table" that your humour is appreciated in certain places but not in every article you contribute to. I'm not happy with my own wording but I think the intent should be there somewhere.

It could go at '''Zany''' instead because Z will be harder letter to use up!
(having said all that I personally don't object to "well done" humour even in straight-cut articles like [[Screw pump]] - the issue is my humour is incomprehensible to a lot of people and can just sound rude!)
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:51, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:I like it as '''Wit'''. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:09, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

::With no against comments I put in in there with a reference to {{tl|D for Dwarf}}.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:01, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

=== Other letters ===

Historically English had a number of letters missing from this list, namely edh (Ð/ð), thorn (Þ/þ), and yogh (Ȝ/ȝ). Do we need rules for them?--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 20:49, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:No. They do NOT exist in today's English, thus they don't belong in the list. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:07, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Of course not, that's just silly. We do need one rule for each positive integer in existence, however. --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:16, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==

Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)

How about this?

[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Redirects and article titles ==

How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Tutorials ==

New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:[[Your first fortress]] will do just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT) 

== Categories ==

I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Deletion ==

We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Water level style ==

I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Templates? ==

Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Forum references ==

Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I know this is late but try this:
::<nowiki>[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 Caption]</nowiki>
::which shows as
::[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 Caption]
::I would use it like this:
:::"According to a [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 forum post]..."
::[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:41, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

Links of this form fail - is this forum totally gone/replaced, or can the links somehow be translated to the current forum? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:23, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Crops categories ==

My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.

Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Wealth page... ==

I've been looking for tips on building fortress wealth, and haven't really been able to find anything. Can someone who knows something about it start a [[Wealth]] page? I know that mining out areas, making things, and artifacts contribute to wealth, but that's all I know. How much does mining a square contribute? Are there other ways to build wealth? Do mined out areas have to be populated, or can I go mine away a random hill and have it count? What are the best things to make to increase value? Do items have to be placed, or just made? and so on... --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Formatting standards ==

=== Category tags ===

On this wiki, the standard for capitalization in category tags is <tt><nowiki>[[Category:Stub]]</nowiki></tt>. I asked what it should be, and nobody answered for two and a half months, so I feel entitled to decide it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

=== Headers ===

At the current time, the standard for a header is <code>=== Headers ===</code>. <code>===Headers===</code> is slightly easier to type, is typed more often by newbies, and works just as well, but has less white space. Input? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:57, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:I like <code>=== Header ===</code> better, because it's easier to read, and the extra whitespace helps call your attention to the name of the section, whereas you might glance over it as an "unrecognized token" if you didn't manage to filter out the immediately surrounding markup. I think the 2 bytes saved on whitespace is negligible and I certainly don't mind correcting them when I find 'em, if necessary. A similar question (if it's not been asked) would be whether or not to include a newline in between a heading and its text. I think for big sections of text, an extra line looks nice, but for multiple, smaller, less important sections, it's easier to manage the headings if there's no blank line separating them from the section they head. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 14:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::I always put a blank line above and below a header (unless it's the first line in the page), except in rare situations, like the current List of Twenty-Six Rules. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

=== Talk pages ===

The current standard seems to be to never put a blank line in a comment by a single users, except in highly lengthy comments, and to always put exactly one blank line between comments by different users, because that's what I say in [[Template:Newbie]], but is that correct? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:40, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Italian Wiki ==

Hi! 
I've just ask to Tarn to open an italian guide on this wiki.. so can i do it? --[[User:Marte]]

:No, this wiki is english only. You're free, however, to make an Italian DF wiki... I'm not sure how that works, though, so don't ask me. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:29, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

i need an answer about this.. who can help me?

== Wikprojects ==

Do we have wikiprojects like Wikipedia? I want to start one on making sure answers to the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=ff2b3eb60775033d8509fa42a227db08&board=7.0 DF gameplay questions] in the forum are in the wiki. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 15:18, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== footnotes ==

Before Wikipedia had <ref>, there were some templates they used to get about the same effect with a little more awkwardness - I can find them and get it working here if anyone wants. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 13:11, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

== Pictures ==

How about RL pictures of things like minerals, etc, that people may not be able to easily visualize? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I agree. Can someone edit [[Template:Stone layer]] to allow pictures of the actual stone? I'd be happy to contribute pictures after that. I suggest using the pictures on [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikimedia Commons]. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 23:39, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::We already link to the relevant Wikipedia article on all the stone and ore pages (at the bottom of that template). No need to bring all the pictures over here when they're just a click away. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:43, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== {{[[Template:a|a]]|anchor|name}} ==

<s>Can someone make that using my [[Template:Sandbox|quick mockup of the concept]] of anchor tags without the anchor tags? I'm busy trying to not get caught using the computer. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:14, 6 November 2008 (EST)</s>

:Nevermind, I just did it. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:01, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Worldgen artificial features ==

I.e. sites, roads, etc.

Right now, we have [[site]] which covers pretty much everything about buildings, [[road]] which has a section covering roads and bridges, and dwarf/goblin tunnels are briefly mentioned in both.

So, gathering opinions time - do you think we should have one article encompassing everything, one about sites and one about road/bridge/tunnel, or a different article about each map feature. And how do adventure-mode caravans fit in?

[[User:Random832|Random832]] 13:09, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Redirects with potential ==

I recently saw a link changed on the grounds of "when you can, don't link to a redirect" - I disagree with this - I think that when there is potential for a topic to eventually get an article of its own, links relating to that topic should go to that title so that they don't have to be altered when that article is created. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:34, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:In general I agree with you. I also advocate the use of sensible synonym and alternate word form redirects, such as [[architect]] for [[building designer]], or [[reveal]] for [[revealed tile]] -- this makes it much easier to link things that need linking without having to pipe all the time. (For the uninitiated, a piped link is like so: <nowiki>[[what it points to|what is displayed]]</nowiki>.) The cost to the server for handling a redirect is negligible, according to the devs of the MediaWiki software, so we should take advantage of them, where it makes sense to do so.

:In the particular case, I didn't contradict the poster because a) the redirect linked to didn't have much potential ("shore", was it?) and b) it was a piped link anyway. By the time you're going to pipe a link, at least use one that makes sense. A subsequent editor addressed that issue.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Right, I just meant as a general principle. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

== Creature articles of little significance ==

I just stumbled on [[Whale shark]] - there are numerous articles like this - and while there are plenty of creatures that are "notable" (either due to historical notoriety like the [[carp]] or [[elephant]], or due to some unique aspect of their behavior like the [[rhesus macaque]]), there's lots that are pretty much just name/tile/stats. Anyone have any thoughts on merging them into sensible categories? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

:An article with just stats is unimpressive, but I'd rather have the stats than not. Merging them would be ugly unless the stats were removed, so I don't think there's any benefit to merging them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:00, 24 November 2008 (EST)

== New version approaching ==

Yes, I know it's likely not coming until april, but the new version will have some significant differences to the current one, particularly where combat is concerned. Shall we make a category and notice template in order to tag places that will likely need revision come april (or whenever it's done) in order to get a head start on organization? [[User:Fieari|Fieari]] 15:36, 25 December 2008 (EST)

:It's hard to correctly anticipate what will need changing. Better to wait until we have it in front of us, I think.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:09, 25 December 2008 (EST)

== Thoughts on {{rule|i}} - Diagrams ==

Isn't [[Template:RT]] really more complexity than we need? How about this?

<pre style="font:bold 20px/1 'Courier New';color:#ccc;background:black;width:auto;padding:0;float:left">
╔═══╗
║+++║
║+++┼
║+++║
╚═══╝
</pre>{{-}}

Save the complex templates for when you actually need color

You can even drop the complexity further for a nice typewriter character set
<pre style="font:bold 20px/1 'Courier New';color:#ccc;background:black;width:auto;padding:0;float:left">
#####
#...#
#...+
#...#
#####
</pre>{{-}}

(I picked this particular size because it makes ░░░▒▒▒▓▓▓ look right in them, which makes it seem that it's the size the font is designed for. I picked this _font_ because it provides all of the CP437 characters. The actual style tag you see above could be moved to a template so it would look like <code><pre <nowiki>{{TD}}</nowiki>></code>)

[[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:28, 30 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Maximizing framerate

2009-02-10T06:42:22Z

Burlingk: Small Worlds

== Effect on # of dwarves, framerate calculations ==

I'm not sure how important the number of dwarves is on the framerate. I was getting about 12 to 15 with 22 dwarves, and this has fallen to 9 with 97 dwarves. I think it is more bad pathing, like animals being caught behind doors that causes more problems than the number of units themselves. The addition of 80 goblins had an impact of 1 fps as well... although again, they probably weren't having any trouble path finding to no where. --Gotthard 13:53, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:I typically see a substantial drop in framerate when new immigrants come, and afterward the game's never as fast or responsive. However, I also demand a higher framerate (not less than 40, to avoid annoying interface lagging/jerkiness) than many people seem prepared to tolerate, so our findings aren't inconsistent. You just have more load already and so don't notice a given amount of additional usage as much. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 05:39, 7 December 2007 (EST)

::If this is the case, then I doubt there is a linear relationship associated with the FPS values. The G_FPS might also impact this. Typically, 10-12 more dwarves lowered my FPS by 1 at max, and I have 6 masons making blocks for my castle, and 18 dwarves running around permanently putting them up. I would guess that the FPS drops off fast to begin with, so it takes a lot to go down from 10-9 fps compared to 40-39 fps. --Gotthard 08:35, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:::Yes, this is expected. Framerate changes aren't linear and here's why: Let us imagine that a given computer can process 10,000 game things per second. A framerate of 100 means that the game requires only 100 calculations per update, and therefore can update 100 times/second. A framerate of 1 means the game has to perform 10,000 calculations per update. To drop from 40 to 39 FPS, the game must require ~6 more calculations per update. To drop from 10 to 9 FPS, the game must require ~111 more calculations per update. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)

::Wow, I can't stand things if FPS falls under ~80! Though, running a 2.1Ghz Dual Core and 512M 8600GeForce probably has some bearing on it. Personally, I run my G_FPS at only 10, and FPS_CAP at 200. I haven't gotten to economy sized populations yet with these settings (mostly on purpose cause I also keep my POP_CAP to only 10 until I've gotten the majority of the fortress dug out and a good stock of food and bedrooms, etc. The extra dwarves end up just getting in the way any other time I've tried my play-style. With this setup, I usually average around 150 FPS. Also, I've noticed a difference in FPS if I have the map section open, either single or double pane, moreso when there are a large number of creatures on the map. Simply closing (tabbing) the map got me an increase from ~125 to ~140. Should be worth 2-3 frames at the low FPS levels you guys are talking about. I'm also curious if the FPS counter itself has a significant effect on frames... --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:40, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

:::Dude... you are runnning the game displaying at 10 FPS even though it's 80~200 FPS (IE: Should be pretty damn jerky), and never got an economy sized population. Of course you have a good FPS. Hell, mine was sticking at 100 with 10 dwarves and I just have a ~2 year old straight out of the box PC. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:18, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Weather and Trees ==

Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back. Most saplings have withered and died. The landscape is littered with them. I'm in a Mirthful area, so it's not alignment. I haven't been able to get any trees since I deforested the entire area, and yes, it has been over three years. I'm playing 33d. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 19:50, 5 December 2007 (EST)

:Well I've been playing map for 6 years now, and I've had weather on the entire time, tons of trees have grown back. I've not deforested the ENTIRE area, but from what I understand trees grow back at a proportional rate to the amount of area there was to grow, so it should be better. I think saplings randomly die, perhaps moreso with traffic on them but... I don't have an explanation. --Gotthard 19:23, 6 December 2007 (EST)

::"Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back." Turned on or turned off? Logically, if weather were turned off, trees shouldn't grow to maturity. --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:29, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

:::Trees grow back just fine with weather turned off. I don't know why sometimes most or all the saplings die, but it's not turning weather off that causes it. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:00, 4 January 2008 (EST)

::::N9103, logic has no place here. Begone! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:12, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:::::HA! Tell that to Flingify() ^.^ Most things in DF do get a logical implementation... notable exceptions exist of course, but generally speaking, things follow commonsense. ... So Nya! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

:Is any part of the area you embarked at evil? If so, are they the areas that the trees could grow in? (i.e. a mirthful mountain next to haunted woods) If you're beyond doubt sure that that's not the case, then going on what else has been investigated, I see one of two things: Complete deforestation *stops* tree growth, including saplings; Or, you've got some kind of bug that hasn't been documented yet. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:05, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Economy ==

Can we confirm/disprove the effect of the economy on framerate? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 02:42, 13 December 2007 (EST)

:Not sure what you mean exactly. The economy makes several changes, any of which might potentially impact speed. Can you give more detail on what specifically might potentially be causing a slowdown (or speed boost)? Is there a discussion on the forum that you have in mind? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm pretty sure he's talking about the init setting and turning it off. The 'potentially' part you mentioned is what he wanted clarification on. Does turning the setting off before the economy activates improve pre-economy performance? There might indeed be people out there that are willing to lose one of the cooler features for a much improved framerate. A good question is does turning that setting off prevent you from ever gaining an economy (when you decide to turn the option back on) should you pass the point where it should have activated? --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:27, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

== One Way Stairs ==

"Use ...multiple one-way stairways to connect any two spots where lots of dwarves will want to be"

How do you make a one way stair? I tried searching here, and on the forum, but didn't find it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]]

:I mean to use paired up and down staircases instead of up/down ones. This suggestion is now removed because I'm not sure it actually makes a difference (it's safer for your dwarves, but I don't see a difference in game speed) [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 14:50, 2 January 2008 (EST)

::How is a single-floor staircase (down+up) any safer than using a multiple-floor staircase (down+down/up+up)?

::Or for that matter, how is it different than making all your staircases down/up (minus bottom level of course)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:40, 3 January 2008 (EST)

:::If a dwarf falls down a multi-level up/down staircase, he may die or be badly injured.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 22:52, 3 January 2008 (EST)

::::What would cause a dwarf to fall down stairs aside from combat?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:59, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:::::Haven't a clue. I just know that several people have reported their dwarves getting killed or maimed that way.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 15:17, 5 January 2008 (EST)

::::I used to use the up/down staircases for a central mineshaft until I had multiple dwarves become maimed/die when fighting on the stairs. I now use a spiral staircase design instead. I don't think anything BUT combat makes them fall, but if they charge a goblin snatcher and miss, there's no promise they won't end up 15 levels down missing all their limbs. --Gotthard 11:08, 7 January 2008 (EST)

:::::How about using floor hatches every level? -- Digger

::::::Those cause annoying blinkage. --[[User:Silfir|Silfir]] 07:17, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Weather and windmills ==

To BurnedToast: You seem to be right that turning weather off doesn't stop windmills from working. I wasn't sure where I got that impression, but after looking it up, it was from several instances on IRC where people came in, said "The windmill isn't making power :(", were told to "turn weather on", went "Ah ha!", and never said that it didn't make them start working. (After I while I started suggesting it too since nobody had reported it not working, until recently.) So, hmm. I just switched a fort that had weather to not having it, and yeah, the windmills all still work. So I built a new one - also works. Then I generated a new world with weather off, started a new fort in it, built a windmill, and it produced 20 power. Oh well. --[[User:SL|SL]] 13:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Multiple CPUs/Cores ==

As far as I have tested, DF uses 3 threads. It seems to put all its efforts in a single one, but even so, the other two still take cpu time, so having a dual-core machine still helps even if the threads are synchronized (and it isn't such a huge difference). I assume one of the threads link the display to the game core while the other runs the input buffer. I'd have to do more testing. [[User:Soulwynd|Soulwynd]] 23:37, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bulging Histories ==

Any chance history plays a role in framerates? I have a fairly beefy machine and was regularly getting 100FPS in my first few forts, but after about 15 forts and 30 adventure modes (I'm quite suicidal), I can't get my FPS above 35 even on initial embark and a 3x3 fortress plot. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 12:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well... from that data, that's likely. Personally, I play all my forts on separate worlds. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:12, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:I think I have to second the idea of (small histories == higher framerates) I've been playing a lot of small and smaller worlds, and even when I pick larger than normal sites, my frames seem to stay up better than on standard worlds. I'll test at some point just how well a Full Local map holds up in a Pocket world. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:04, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Disconnection ==

I've found it '''VERY''' important, in terms of framerates, not to block all paths between your fortress and the outside world, either with raised bridges, or with forbidden doors. I'm not certain about walls, as I haven't desired "permanent" blocking, but temporary, to prevent thives and the like. Infact, pathfinding errors from those I desire to keep out are exactly what crashes the framerate. 
 
I'm talking about '''50% loss''', and that's just to start. If you continue to block the pathfinding, It's possible to have it completely crawl to a stop, as in 0-1 FPS! 
It's a shame that such a primitive defense results in such a catastrophic failure of the pathing system. :( 
 
As I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, I'm adding it here, and will eventually add it to the main article if no one else feels like pretty-ing it up for display. 
--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:That's happening for you? I've been setting up an elaborate set of bridges and floodgates that serves as the only entrance to my fortress, and have closed my dwarves off inside on numerable occasions and it caused little more than make them cancel tasks that required them to leave the fortress.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 15:57, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::Have you turned off invasions as well? I used to do that when I played with invasions off to develop my management abilities. I did it now in three different worlds (smaller) and have had it happen every time. The framerate loss began as soon as a goblin/kobold tried to do mischief and pull a lever, as determined in the error log. I would assume that thieves/snatchers would likely cause similar frame-crashes, but that much isn't verified on my part. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:04, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I have invasions on, although any attackers have died rather quickly.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 21:48, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::::Hey look! invaders! I closed the gates and lowered the bridge, but my framerate didn't drop. In fact, just as the invaders got there my framerate went back up from a puzzlingly low 40 back up to a regular 90.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:19, 2 April 2008 (EST)

::::I've tested it again with a couple more waves of goblins, and I've come to the conclusion that the preceding immense slowdown is while the goblins are on the map but not in view. This makes me think that either hidden units contribute to lag more, or the difficult terrain in my area causes their pathfinding to temporarily "freak out."--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 1:03, 3 April 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, it would seem obvious that invaders have glitches that have direct effects on framerates... just not well defined effects :-/ The "not in view" part seems true enough since the 'mischief-makers' are always invisible until discovered, and my forts generally have been rather far from invasion points. Looks like this is gonna be on hold for the page until someone does some '''extensive''' testing. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:04, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::::::I'll be happy to start testing it as soon as I start establishing some more long-term fortresses.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 11:23, 4 April 2008 (EST)

:[[User_talk:Squirrelloid#Animals_try_to_path_through_tightly_closed_doors|Squirrelloid]]'s done some tests that end up proving the same point, but with animals instead of thieves/snatchers. Both of those groups use flawed pathfinding that doesn't properly account for created obstacles that are passable under certain conditions that aren't true at the time of the pathfind. (Doors being forbidden, or bridges raised for the thieves, and doors being designated as pet forbidden for the animals.) I still say that failed pathfinds cause 90% of framerate loss. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:24, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

:I've uploaded a zip of my errorlog.txt that encompasses a decent, but not overly long amount of time. The unzipped file is 22MB! Thankfully, text compresses very well, and the zip is only 387K. <99% of the file is failed mischief from either goblins or kobolds. [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=167] --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:29, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

== Dual Screens ==

I just put a second monitor on my computer, partly so I could fullscreen DF with the wiki in another screen. However, running DF in fullscreen make sit take up one screen like normal, and the other goes black. Ckciking the black monitor causes DF to stretch across the monitors. Since there is info here about running DF in one monitor to save CPU cycles, I was wondering is anyone could help. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]]

:I don't understand what you're saying. Dwarf Fortress does not do that on my computer. Operating system, perhaps? By the way, sign your comments using <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:24, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

:When you enter fullscreen mode with most graphics apis (such as OpenGL) you will take full control, which is why the other screen goes black. Your best bet is to run in windowed mode with the window size set to your resolution. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:01, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

::I had this same thought; and did some measurement - on Windows with the "windows standard" theme and default fonts, the room needed for the chrome is 27 pixels vertical, 8 pixels horizontal. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 10:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== temperature ==

From the article "" You're well-advised to stick with "warm" or "hot" fortress sites if you turn temperature off and your source of water is a stream."" --- I cannot understand that. --[[User:Catpaw|Catpaw]] 08:29, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

:If you turn temperature off, and you start on a cold location with a stream, the stream will be frozen and never thaw.[[User:DaBing|DaBing]]

== New 40d# releases and the Acceleration program ==

So I'm sure most of you are aware of the new 40d releases (I think it's on 40d7) that toady has been putting out that incorporate better handling of OpenGL. In so far as I understand, he is combining the acceleration program into Dwarf Fortress, so they come 'packaged' together right out of the box. Also, the thread that the wiki is linking to ( http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27262.0 ) is stated to be obsolete and sends the user to the 40d# thread ( http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27262.0 ). I think we should update/remove/replace the 'acceleration program' portion of this article to point users to the new 40d# releases, unless we want to wait until Toady releases something final before changing anything? If do decide to change it, we might want to make people aware that there WAS an acceleration program, but it has been superseded by the new 40d# releases. Thoughts? --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:24, 6 January 2009 (EST)

== Small Worlds ==

I noticed mention of small worlds. I have no doubt that they probably reduce lag, but I will argue the creation time issue. My experience so far has been that "pocket" and "smaller" sized worlds take longer to gen than "Small" and "Medium," because of the shear volume of rejected attempts in the initial creation stage. My experience is entirely with 40d and 40d9. [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 01:42, 10 February 2009 (EST)

User:Burlingk

2009-02-07T06:41:39Z

Burlingk: New page: Well, I am new here. I log onto IRC as Emry. Hopefully more to come!

Well, I am new here. I log onto IRC as Emry. Hopefully more to come!