Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Plac1d

2008-05-30T20:17:20Z

Basilisk:

== Bug Reports ==

Report bugs and errors for any of my work here:

== Comments ==

Wow, this looks really nice! Great work! [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 16:17, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

40d:Water

2008-04-16T22:14:06Z

Basilisk: /* Water in Fortress Mode */ It is also possible to get rid of excess water by letting it flow into a river.

'''Water''' is a fluid found all over the world. It [[flow]]s from mountain springs, forming the world's [[ocean]]s, [[lake]]s, [[river]]s, and [[brook]]s. Water falls as [[rain]] and [[snow]], and freezes into [[ice]]. Water is home to [[aquatic creatures]]. Most creatures can [[Swimmer|swim]] in deep water, and like all fluids, air-breathing creatures can [[Swimmer#Drowning|drown]] in it. Water comes in two varieties: '''freshwater''', which makes up almost all inland water, and '''saltwater''', which fills the seas; these are home to different aquatic creatures. If dwarves do not drink they will become dehydrated(thirsty) and if they do not quench that thirst then they will eventually die. Injured dwarves will only drink freshwater, though normally dwarves prefer their [[Alcohol|booze]].

In addition, water can be ''stagnant'' or ''[[Murky pool|murky]]''. This may cause dwarves to have unhappy [[thought]]s if they drink from it.

When water comes into contact with creatures and objects, they become "[[Contaminant|contaminated]]" with it. [[Soil]] and [[stone]] becomes [[damp]] or [[mud]]dy, which can be used for [[Agriculture|farming]].

Water is displayed with the symbols {{Tile|≈|#008|#999}} and {{Tile|~|#008|#999}}, sometimes with different blues, brown, and white to show ripples, [[pollutant]]s and [[flow]]. (The game can be [[Technical_tricks#The_look_of_the_game|configured]] to show the depth instead). Dark-colored water symbols indicate the water is one [[Z-level]] below the camera level. Water has 7 depth levels per tile, with 1 being perhaps ankle-deep, and 7 filling the tile completely. [[Dwarf|Dwarves]] and other [[humanoid]]s can walk through water up to depth 4. At 4 they can choose to walk or swim, any deeper and they must swim to pass through the tile.

Every material sinks in water.{{ver|0.27.169.33a}}

The [[Map tile|tiles]] above [[brook]]s are treated as [[floor]] tiles. They are passable to creatures, and objects do not fall into them.

== Water in Fortress Mode ==

In addition to drinking, pools and rivers can be used for [[fishing]]. To specify a pool of water as a water source, fishing zone, or [[pond]], you need to create [[activity zone]]s at the level above the water. The "level above the water" is the level at which the surface of the water is at foot-level instead of ceiling level. Water can be [[bridge]]d, and can also be used to make a [[moat]].

Water can be moved by [[digging]] channels or tunnels, using [[bucket]]s, or by constructing a [[screw pump]]. Dwarves will use buckets to fill a [[pond]]. [[Screw pump]]s (operated by dwarf or [[Power| machine power]]) can move water vertically and horizontally. Transferring water down channels/holes to lower levels can be hazardous due to [[water pressure]].

[[Cave lake|Lakes]] can be drained by digging into the side of them. Rivers can also be redirected in this manner. It is only possible to dig directly up into a water-filled tile using stairs.{{ver|0.27.169.33c}} Fish and other aquatic creatures will stay in the water as it moves, but may end up on the ground if the water becomes too shallow. Drained lakes that are [[outside]] are filled by melting ice and snow, but not by rain.

Tiles adjacent to a water-filled tile are labeled "damp" and flash the water symbol when accessing the {{k|d}}esignations menu. When a miner discovers a damp tile, he cancels the mining designation, the game pauses, and the camera centers on the tile. This happens for every damp tile discovered, and each must be designated again before a miner will dig it out.{{ver|0.27.169.33a}} Digging under a water-filled tile does not actually drain it, even though you receive multiple warnings about damp tiles. If a tile already appears to be damp when it is designated, no warning will be given.

Somebody who falls into water, for example, a [[kobold]] thief, will then have a "water covering" on nearly every part of their anatomy. This is listed under {{k|v}},{{k|i}}nventory and is shown in green.

[[Water wheel]]s can be used to generate mechanical power from flows.

The water in a tile can be destroyed by closing a [[floodgate]] or [[door]] on it (via a [[lever]]), by lowering a [[bridge]] onto it, or by [[evaporation]]. Thus water mass is not conserved and it is possible to run out of water on maps without an infinite source(such as an [[ocean]] or [[aquifer]]). It is also possible to get rid of excess water by letting it flow into a [[river]].

[[category:Map_tiles]]
[[Category:Physics]]

File talk:Flying Mage square 16x16 Stone Type.png

2008-04-15T00:58:49Z

Basilisk: New page: This is a really clever use of the tile set! ~~~~

This is a really clever use of the tile set! [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 20:58, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Traffic

2008-04-07T06:40:53Z

Basilisk:

<u>"Also route them around food stockpiles, as food can get trampled, and if it happens to be a masterwork cooked dish, expect an insane cook."</u>

Is this true? Did this change in the new version? Has anyone actually experienced such damage, unequivocally caused by traffic?

I remember some discussion of this long ago with the old version, but it turned out not to be damage due to traffic. (I think it was temperature?) —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:54, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:It was a temperature effect, according to Toady. I don't think this has changed. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:20, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::Going to remove it from the main page then, as I've never experienced trampling of things in stockpiles either. -[[User:twincannon|twincannon]]

Has anyone experienced an increase or decrease in FPS when traffic zones are used heavily? I was just wondering if this helps or hurts pathfinding algorithms and how it affects game speed. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:14, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I haven't seen much effect on FPS personally, but the algorithm Toady One uses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_star) typically has a heuristic which assumes that all tiles are weighted equally. Generally speaking, adding tiles with high movement costs can cause A* to search much larger areas than it would normally. If you are only restricting small, non-chokepoint areas though, it should never be an issue, as A* will find a route adjacent to the restricted tiles, if possible. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 02:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I think there should be some mentions of what traffic controls, and workarounds for common problems here. For example, Traffic designations don't work for me to prevent a dwarf from standing on the wrong side of a moat while he's channeling. My current work around for this is to place a wall where I don't want him to stand, then suspend it. Then I remove the suspended wall once the channel is dug. Also, another confusing point is that traffic restriction apparently has little/no impact on job ordering. For example, say you are constructing concentric moats, and you'd like your dwarves to start on the inner moat first, then, when thats done, work on the next outer moat. Traffic restrictions will not force them to dig the inner channel first. I don't currently have a workaround for this style of problem; the wall thing doesn't seem to work for it.
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 12:38, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:Traffic designations only affect path preferences when pathfinding. Dwarves choose their destinations without thinking about them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:A good example of traffic control would be to designate a main underground tunnel as high traffic, so that dwarves aren't trying to find shortcuts by going outside. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 02:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Traffic

2008-04-07T06:40:39Z

Basilisk:

<u>"Also route them around food stockpiles, as food can get trampled, and if it happens to be a masterwork cooked dish, expect an insane cook."</u>

Is this true? Did this change in the new version? Has anyone actually experienced such damage, unequivocally caused by traffic?

I remember some discussion of this long ago with the old version, but it turned out not to be damage due to traffic. (I think it was temperature?) —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:54, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:It was a temperature effect, according to Toady. I don't think this has changed. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:20, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::Going to remove it from the main page then, as I've never experienced trampling of things in stockpiles either. -[[User:twincannon|twincannon]]

Has anyone experienced an increase or decrease in FPS when traffic zones are used heavily? I was just wondering if this helps or hurts pathfinding algorithms and how it affects game speed. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 06:14, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I haven't seen much effect on FPS personally, but the algorithm Toady One uses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_star) typically has a heuristic which assumes that all tiles are weighted equally. Generally speaking, adding tiles with high movement costs can cause A* to search much larger areas than it would normally. If you are only restricting small, non-chokepoint areas though, it should never be an issue, as A* will find a route adjacent to the restricted tiles, if possible.

I think there should be some mentions of what traffic controls, and workarounds for common problems here. For example, Traffic designations don't work for me to prevent a dwarf from standing on the wrong side of a moat while he's channeling. My current work around for this is to place a wall where I don't want him to stand, then suspend it. Then I remove the suspended wall once the channel is dug. Also, another confusing point is that traffic restriction apparently has little/no impact on job ordering. For example, say you are constructing concentric moats, and you'd like your dwarves to start on the inner moat first, then, when thats done, work on the next outer moat. Traffic restrictions will not force them to dig the inner channel first. I don't currently have a workaround for this style of problem; the wall thing doesn't seem to work for it.
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 12:38, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:Traffic designations only affect path preferences when pathfinding. Dwarves choose their destinations without thinking about them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:A good example of traffic control would be to designate a main underground tunnel as high traffic, so that dwarves aren't trying to find shortcuts by going outside.

40d Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan

2008-03-28T02:24:11Z

Basilisk: /* Merge this into Trading */

====Insane merchants?====
I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.

How do I prevent this happening again? Because this lot are starting to putrify...[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:23, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Damned if I know. I now make a habit of locking up the outpost liaison because he's gone insane, often berserk, in every game I've played.
Ever. [[User:PandaKnight|PandaKnight]] 02:45, 17 November 2007 (EST)

:make sure they have a 3x3 path cleared - some trees might have grown since arrival. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
====Caravan roads ====
Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road? Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:In v33a, no caravans need roads. However, I think the human caravan needs a smoothed, 3-wide path to a map edge - but I'm not certain about this.
:It's probably worth mentioning that roads might speed up a caravan - reducing the chance that they leave before they've unpacked.[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:(Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think you can influence where the caravan appears. I know that both the Elven and Dwarven caravans have ignored my roads when choosing their starting position.)[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:33, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:On a relatively flat and moderately forested map I recently played, each civ seemed to have a preferred side of the map to enter, but were relatively random about where on the edge they appeared. I built a straight, smoothed road to each edge that went largely unused. The human wagons are happy to go up and down slopes and cross quite rough (but unobstructed) ground to reach me. A smooth road would almost certainly speed their arrival and departure. As an aside, the goblin civ in my current map has been quite happy to start sieges from several different sides, so take the directionality with a grain of salt. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Does the trade depot need to be out side or on the ground level for the Human wagons to reach it. Can I use stairs or do they need a ramp? [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 15:32, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:The level and location doesn't matter, as long as it's reachable from the arrival level on the surface. Which level is the arriving one depends on the map, and is best found using the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Ramps, of course, are needed in place of stairs. If your Depot doesn't show up as accessible using the tool, then look along your planned route for where there isn't a three-tile wide path for them to use. Common causes of blocked access are boulders and trees, the former being removed by smoothing, the latter only being permanently negated using roads, (trees will eventually grow back causing the path to be blocked.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:33, 24 January 2008 (EST)

I have a query about the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Access is currently blocked by a 3 wide door I built at the front of my fortress. Doors are flagged as Passable and Pet-passable. I removed the doors and it now is accessable. Whats the deal? Can't wagons open doors? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 20:16, 3 March 2008 (EST)

:Nope. Wagons can't open doors. They don't even have any kind of hand-like appendage.
:Merchants, however, can open doors. If that's what you're thinking of:
:You did not build a 3-wide door. You built three normal doors. Doors have frames, you know, and so there's essentially this three-wide hallway for the wagon to go through, but with two posts in the middle of it. For the wagon to pass, those need to go. And for those to go, you need to get rid of the doors. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:23, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

====Bugged Human Caravans====
I've had a crash bug associated with the arrival of the human caravan. Interestingly, when I raised my drawbridges, limiting access to my depot to a torturous 1-wide path, the caravan arrived OK with the message along the lines of "the wagons have bypassed this stop." I only got the mule-back traders, but no crash. This repeated the next year. I'm guessing this relates to Toady's comments about a seed pricing bug. It's possible that it's a pathing issue with the wagons, of course. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)
:Since upgrading to 33b, I have not seen this bug. Hooray! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 22:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

====Caravans immune to drowning?====
Can anybody confirm this? It looks like very unlikely to me... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (EST)

(Samyotix) A Brook is a walkable water tile, even with 7/7 water. Since there's no trees or boulders blocking the way in a brook, these are almost like highways.
On my latest fortress I smoothed out a wide path for the caravans across rocky terrain... imagine my surprise when the traders completely ignored the road and chose the (shorter) route through the Brook :)

== Merge this into [[Trading]] ==

Caravans are only relevant to trading so lets just merge them into that article. No use having the same information spread all over the wiki. I don't have time to do it now. Need to get to work. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)

: I agree. Objections anyone? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)
:: I think that there is enough about caravans specifically that they should keep their own article. Even though they are only good for trading, I don't think the trading article has much to do with what tiles are accessible to caravans, and so on. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 22:24, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Bridge

2008-03-27T22:03:55Z

Basilisk:

Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
{{qd|cols=8
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

User talk:Basilisk

2008-03-21T20:30:46Z

Basilisk:

My primary enemy is all the trees that sprout up to block caravans.
:Err... Road?[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:13, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
::I'm working on it... it's really hard to clear an area for paving in a dense jungle area.[[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 16:30, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Basilisk

2008-03-21T20:30:35Z

Basilisk:

40d Talk:Exploratory mining

2008-03-20T20:38:43Z

Basilisk: /* Proposal: Scattered tiles */

This is a guide on how to search for valuable materials by mining.<br>
...why is there any use for it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:52, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:I think it's useful. The need for more resources, unless you're extremely lucky in the beginning, is not satisfied by the fort's initial digging efforts or its natural expansion. This usually leads to the need to dig in order to reveal large areas, and more often not, the most intuitive method the player thinks up is not the most efficient for their situation. Mining labor, being pretty scarce even for a medium sized fortress, shouldn't be squandered by using an inefficient method, especially if you want fast results.
:--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 04:13, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

::Mining labor? Scarce? O.o.
::Grab a few peasant immigrants (or miner immigrants if you get any - they come with picks), get picks for them, and start them mining. If you mine out a significant area (like, "enough that you want more than two miners") you'll have legendary miners within a year.
::But alright. I do agree that efficiency in exploratory mining is useful, since without it you ruin the area and get lots of useless stone. However, I argue that this article states things that should not be in a manual of any sort: We don't tell you how to make your fortress. We tell you what happens when X happens and we tell you what to do to get Y.
::But you still disagree, I assume? Alright. If it really is bad, the article will get deleted/shrunk/merged. If it isn't, we should do it right.
::<nowiki>*brings out the umkey*</nowiki>
::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:18, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I see what you're getting at, it would definitely be wrong to state design tips as facts or tell people how to build their fortress.
:::However, this article is intended to be a technical guide to mining methods, not a style guide. I'd like to make it as neutral and factual as possible.
:::Going over it again, I noticed that parts of it are written inappropriately for a technical article. For example, the usability part definitely steps quite a bit over the line, and I wouldn't mind seeing it removed or altered to contain only necessary facts.
:::--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 14:10, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

== Proposal: Diagonal pattern ==

Would it be useful to add this pattern?
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒.▒▒▒▒.▒▒
▒.▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒
.▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒.
▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒.▒
</nowiki></div>
* Labor: 20% of the tiles are excavated.
* Scarcity: Any scarcity. Clusters as small as a single tile are revealed.
* Visibility: 100%.
* Reusability: With a bit of imagination you can build nice 3x3 rooms

I usually dig a diagonal squares with the sides 25 tiles long. And use this pattern later. (See Minepoint at map archive). It shows (almost) every vein...[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 09:16, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:I fixed the formatting. Hope you don't mind. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:18, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

::Not at all. I was hoping that someone would come over and give it a proper wiki makeover.
::As for the layout, It's incredibly good. It's superior to the rows layout in every way, and it's less work intensive than the 7X7 block layout while giving full visibility.
::Comparing all the layouts gave me an idea- We could group all the block layouts into a single block layout, seeing as they are all very similar and related. Different characters would denote different phases in the digging process. Then, we could introduce the block layout as modular, the diagonal layout as efficient and the hollow layout as thorough. I have half a mind to scrap the row layout altogether, seeing as it's pretty inferior.
::--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 14:33, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Actually, I was talking to Dorten - I fixed his formatting.
:::Anyway, the row layout does have one advantage: It gets all tiles and can be designated relatively quickly. I would hate to designate the diagonal layout for a whole z-level.
:::Additionally, row layouts are actually more efficient than block layouts, per tiles dug, although they might not catch a vein running in parallel to them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:45, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

::::Macros help there a lot. Have you seen MinePoint? It was pretty quick.[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:38, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

:::::No. What is it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Proposal: Scattered tiles ==

<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒X▒▒X▒▒X▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒X▒▒X▒▒X▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>
* Labor: 12.5% of the tiles are excavated.
* Scarcity: Any scarcity. Clusters as small as a single tile are revealed.
* Visibility: 100%.

You'll have to have a floor above it with tunnels to the stairs to go down, but after that floor, this provides maximum possible efficiency. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:53, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
:This actually has an 11.1% Labor Efficiency. An added bonus is that it's easy to make into square rooms of various sizes, the stairways can be removed and used as doorways, or just carved out as part of the rooms. It really is similar to the rows method, except turned on end each mined tile exposes 8 tiles, instead of 2. Instead of scattered tiles I'd call it mine shafts, though. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 16:38, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

User:Basilisk

2008-03-20T20:35:58Z

Basilisk: New page: My first fortress, set beneath a dense jungle and next to a river, has yet to be abandoned. My primary enemy is all the trees that sprout up to block caravans.

My first fortress, set beneath a dense jungle and next to a river, has yet to be abandoned. My primary enemy is all the trees that sprout up to block caravans.