Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Althalus

2010-10-14T02:54:47Z

Althalus: Blanked the page

Toady One

2009-06-20T15:07:49Z

Althalus: Added gamedata to Toady, scamps gets one- why shouldnt he. Half toad, Half man, All DF dev.

'''Toady One''' (or just '''Toady''') is the nickname used by Tarn Adams, co-designer and programmer of Dwarf Fortress. He can be reached at [http://www.bay12games.com/about.html About Bay 12 Games] or the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/ Bay 12 Games Forum].

In April 2009, Toady was adopted by [[Scamps]].

The other designer is Zach Adams ([[ThreeToe]]), his older brother.
{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:TOADY_ONE]
[NAME:toady one:toady one:toady one]
[TILE:249][COLOR:2:0:0]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CAN_SPEAK]
[BENIGN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[INTELLIGENT]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[MAXAGE:60:120]
[SPEED:2900][NATURAL]
[FAT:3]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD]
[PREFSTRING:coding]
[DIURNAL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[LAYERING:10]
[MALE]
[SPEECH_MALE:human_male.txt]
[MUNDANE]
}}

[[Category:Game development]]

40d:Material token

2009-06-19T14:59:43Z

Althalus: Clarified that gems are included in the STONE tag

:''You may be looking for [[Matgloss tokens]].''
These tokens are types of materials, used to specify for example what material an item is made of.

{| {{prettytable}}
|- bgcolor="#ddd"
! #
! Token
! Information
|-
| 1 || WOOD || Subtypes come from MATGLOSS_WOOD; or USE_RACEGLOSS within creature raws (e.g. ITEMCORPSE)
|-
| 2 || STONE || Subtypes come from MATGLOSS_STONE; or USE_LAVA_STONE (includes MATGLOSS_STONE_GEM.)
|-
| 3 || METAL || Subtypes come from MATGLOSS_METAL
|-
| 4 || BONE || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 5 || IVORY || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 6 || HORN || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 7 || AMBER || ???
|-
| 8 || CORAL || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 9 || PEARL || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 10 || SHELL || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 11 || LEATHER || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 12 || SILK || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 13 || PLANT_ALCOHOL || Subtypes come from MATGLOSS_PLANT
|-
| 14 || GLASS_GREEN || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 15 || GLASS_CLEAR || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 16 || GLASS_CRYSTAL || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 17 || SAND || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 18 || COAL || Subtype is either COKE or CHARCOAL
|-
| 19 || POTASH || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 20 || ASH || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 21 || PEARLASH || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 22 || LYE || No subtypes use NONE or NO_MATGLOSS
|-
| 23 || RENDERED_FAT || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 24 || SOAP_ANIMAL || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 25 || FAT || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 26 || MUD || ???
|-
| 27 || VOMIT || ???
|-
| 28 || BLOOD_NONSPECIFIC || Subtypes are probably the same as BLOODTYPE{{verify}}
|-
| 29 || BLOOD_SPECIFIC || Subtypes come from CREATURE
|-
| 30 || SLIME || ???
|-
| 31 || SALT || ???
|-
| 32 || FILTH_B || ???
|-
| 33 || FILTH_Y || ???
|-
| 34 || UNKNOWN_SUBSTANCE || ???
|-
| 35 || GRIME || ???
|}

CREATURE does not appear here in the exe, but has been observed with EXTRACT and CHEESE. PLANT does not appear here, but has been observed with POWDER_MISC. Subtypes come from the appropriate matgloss.

When making reactions that use the PLANT or SEEDS Item Tokens, use the name of the appropriate plant from matgloss_plant.txt as the Material Token, and NO_MATGLOSS for Matgloss Subtype.{{version|0.28.181.40d}}

When making reactions that use the REMAINS Item Token, use the name of the appropriate creature from creature_xxx.txt as the Material Token, and NO_MATGLOSS for Matgloss Subtype.

When making reactions that use the BONES Item Tokento create the bones of a specific creature, use the name of the appropriate creature as the Material Token and as the Matgloss Subtype.

[[Category:Modding]]
[[Category:Tokens]]

40d:Item token

2009-06-19T01:18:34Z

Althalus: Added MILLSTONE item token to table.

:''You may be looking for [[Item definition tokens]].''
These are to be used with certain [[Creature Tokens]] (such as ITEMCORPSE) as well as in [[Reactions]].

An item is described by four [[tokens]], as such:

[<whatever is asking for the token>:TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS]

==Item type tokens==

{| {{prettytable}}
|- bgcolor="#ddd"
! Token !! Description
|-
| AMMO || Ammunition for hand-held weapons. Subtypes come from item_ammo.
|-
| AMULET || Amulets.
|-
| ANIMALTRAP || Traps for animals.
|-
| ANVIL || Anvils.
|-
| ARMOR || Armor and clothing worn on the upper body. Subtypes come from item_armor.
|-
| ARMORSTAND || Armor stands.
|-
| BACKPACK || Backpacks.
|-
| BALLISTAPARTS || Ballista parts.
|-
| BALLISTARROWHEAD || Arrow heads for ballista bolts.
|-
| BAR || Both metal and non-metal bars.
|-
| BARREL || Barrels.
|-
| BED || Beds.
|-
| BIN || Bins.
|-
| BLOCKS || Blocks of any kind.
|-
| BONES || Bones from creatures. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| BOX || Chests, coffers, and boxes.
|-
| BRACELET || Bracelets.
|-
| BUCKET || Buckets.
|-
| CABINET || Cabinets.
|-
| CAGE || Cages.
|-
| CATAPULTPARTS || Catapult parts.
|-
| CHAIN || Chains and ropes.
|-
| CHAIR || Chairs and thrones.
|-
| CHEESE || Cheeses.
|-
| CLOTH || Cloth made at the loom.
|-
| COIN || Coins.
|-
| COFFIN || Coffins and caskets.
|-
| CORPSE || Dead things.
|-
| CORPSEPIECE || Body parts.
|-
| CROWN || Crowns.
|-
| DOOR || Doors.
|-
| DRINK || Liquids from brewed plants. Material is a plant ID.
|-
| EARRING || Earrings.
|-
| EXTRACT || Extracts from certain plants and creatures.
|-
| FIGURINE || Idols.
|-
| FISH || Prepared fish. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| FISH_RAW || Unprepared fish. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| FLASK || Flasks.
|-
| FLOODGATE || Floodgates.
|-
| FOOD || Prepared food.
|-
| GEM || Large gems.
|-
| GLOB || Fats, tallows and small bits of molten rock.
|-
| GLOVES || Armor and clothing worn on the hands. Subtypes come from item_gloves.
|-
| GOBLET || Goblets.
|-
| HELM || Armor and clothing worn on the head. Subtypes come from item_helm.
|-
| INSTRUMENT || Musical instruments. Subtypes come from item_instrument.
|-
| LEAVES || Leaves from certain plants after processing.
|-
| LIQUID_MISC || Miscellaneous liquids such as lye.
|-
| MEAT || Butchered meat. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| MILLSTONE || Millstones.
|-
| PANTS || Armor and clothing worn on the legs. Subtypes come from item_pants.
|-
| PET || Tame vermin. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| PIPE_SECTION || Lengths of pipe.
|-
| PLANT || Plants. Material is a plant ID.
|-
| POTION || ???
|-
| POWDER_MISC || Powders (such as flour or dye) from milled plants; bone meal.
|-
| QUIVER || Quivers.
|-
| REMAINS || Dead vermin bodies. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| RING || Rings.
|-
| ROCK || Pebbles (more useful in [[Thrower|adventure mode]].)
|-
| ROUGH || Raw gemstones.
|-
| SAND || Sand.
|-
| SCEPTER || Scepters.
|-
| SEEDS || Seeds from plants.
|-
| SHELL || Shells from creatures that have them. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| SHIELD || Shields and bucklers. Subtypes come from item_shield.
|-
| SHOES || Armor and clothing worn on the feet. Subtypes come from item_shoes.
|-
| SIEGEAMMO || Siege ammo. Subtypes come from item_siegeammo.
|-
| SKIN_RAW || Untanned skins.
|-
| SKIN_TANNED || Tanned skins.
|-
| SKULL || Skulls of dead critters. Possibly broken, neither BONE material or creature IDs seem to work.
|-
| SMALLGEM || Cut gemstones usable in jeweler's workshop
|-
| STATUE || Statues.
|-
| STONE || Raw mined stone.
|-
| TABLE || Tables.
|-
| THREAD || Thread gathered from webs or made at the farmer's workshop.
|-
| TOTEM || Totems.
|-
| TOY || Toys. Subtypes come from item_toy.
|-
| TRAPCOMP || Weapons for traps only. Subtypes come from item_trapcomp.
|-
| TRAPPARTS || Mechanisms.
|-
| VERMIN || Small pseudo-creatures. Material is a creature ID.
|-
| WEAPON || Weapons. Subtypes come from item_weapon.
|-
| WEAPONRACK || Weapon racks.
|-
| WINDOW || Windows.
|-
| WOOD || Wooden logs.
|}

==Item subtype tokens==

Most item types have no subtypes. "NONE" or "NO_SUBTYPE" (the raws use NO_SUBTYPE, saving an embark profile uses NONE) is used for the subtype position for these. For items that do have subtypes, the subtypes are defined from the raws for that item type as noted above.

==Material tokens==

The material tokens have been moved to the new [[Material tokens]] page.

[[Category:Modding]]
[[Category:Tokens]]

40d Talk:Dwarf

2009-06-14T22:40:13Z

Althalus: /* Lifespan */

I don't really see the point of those pictures, but that isn't a good enough reason to remove them. 
If you have any reasons for which the picture(s) should stay or should not stay, please give them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:58, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:I believe that the pictures help visualize the things talked about in this article, for instance, the dwarven stature, the artifacts dwarves are said to make, and a little joke about managers. -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

::The joke is just plain stupid and DF doesn't connect axes and dwarves at all.
::I suggest placing a smaller, possibly improved version of the picture directly in the article, and deleting the other two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:39, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::This entire article, barring the 3rd paragraph, has nothing to do with the game and should be tossed. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::I agree. I plan to rewrite it in the form of [[Human]] and [[Elf]]. The wiki can have some humour, but this doesn't fit the tone at all. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:22, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::Done, a complete revamp. I considered removing the Mythology section too and just linking to the wikipedia article, but I suppose it doesn't hurt the article any. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Do dwarf chicks have beards?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 21:58, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Usually, no. Unless you are talking about a hardcore mythology version in a very specific locale, like the example image you get if you follow the Wiki link. For DF, I don't think there ever been a fixed description, so it would be up to [[Toady One|Toady]] to decide in the end... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:20, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Naturally. All dwarves have beards, according to Tolkien. This is a page for discussing the article, though, not for discussing dwarves in general. That kind of stuff is for the [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi forum]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 23:27, 13 November 2007 (EST)
::It's not like Tolkien is an ultimate reference to anything... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:10, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:::Considering Tolkien defined the modern conception of dwarves as a separate race famed for their love of wealth and mining prowess, and he also created the plural dwarves as opposed to dwarfs, which would be the proper plural for non-'fantasy' dwarfs (genetic disease in a minority of humans - dwarfism), eg, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (who are actually just short people in early versions that even include dwarfs, not a different race, and its unclear when the characters Snow White lives with became miners - the Disney version certainly post-dates the Hobbit by about 6 years - and her housemates are originally non-dwarf robbers in early versions of the tale).
:::And you can't say that dwarves are solely a Norse Mythology-inspired race, as dwarfs and 'dark' elfs in Norse Mythology are indistinguishable, and both terms often used for the same characters. These characters are often mischevious but also reknowned for possession of valuable objects and strange knowledge, much like the Faerie of diluted Celtic mythology, and while Tolkien likely used them for inspiration, he did much of the creative work in establishing the modern view of dwarves (and elves for that matter). Its not even clear Norse dwarfs are subterranean, as while they live in the 'lower' worlds, Midgard is certainly not subterranean and Asgard is 'above' it, which means the lower worlds may easily have their own sky. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:36, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Are you perhaps confusing Tolkien with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wagner Richard Wagner]?--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:53, 12 November 2008 (EST)
Has anyone tried editing dwarves so they can fly? I'm wondering how that would work in fortress mode. Cliffside fortress, anyone?--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 20:33, 23 November 2007 (EST)

I did some research on dwarfs and how long they can live without water. I reclaimed a fortress using 63 dwarfs and brought no alcohol with me, and at the site there was no liquid water. They all died nearly instantaneously after 2 months and 7 days [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 00:08, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Life cycle ==

The article could be improved with some information about
*mating / babies / birth
*infancy
*childhood
*adulthood
*old age
Do each of these stages exist?
*Sleep cycles
Dwarves seem to hit the sack pretty much at the same time. Is it a seasonal thing or based on workload?
*marriage
Do dwarves get married or just "shack up"? If I reallocate the bedroom does only one leave or both of them?
*Death and grief

I was hoping to find some information about how long children stay children for. Being of the Nintendo Generation I have been suprised how long they stay kids for (anyone played SIMS? 3 days from birth to school!) but then I guess a year takes a long time in DF. Given "traditional" dwarves are meant to be long-lived does that mean the children will still be children in 30 game years time?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:51, 4 February 2008 (EST)
:Dwarves dont marry or shack up. All marriage occurs "off stage" and the married couples then arrive at your fotress. [[children|Childhood]] lasts 12 years. When a dwarf dies, all of their friends and family get an unhappy thought. If their corpse decomposes outside of a coffin, they get an additional unhappy thought. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:27, 4 February 2008 (EST) '''addendum added by --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT):''' This is not true, or at least is no longer true. Single Dwarves will get married, but they need to be lovers for quite some time. 5 years is roughly what I've come to expect. Note that dwarves can and do break up after starting a relationship, so it's very unlikely that you'll ever see a wave of marriages. 
::Your edit just after this one was to [[child]]. I guess that article answers some of my questions, but I wouldn't have thought to look there. I will sort out how this article should link to this one.
::There ''are'' only three stages aren't there: [[child]], [[dwarf]] and ''deceased''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:25, 5 February 2008 (EST)
::: I've had dwarves already living at my fortress get married; they have a wedding reception and everything. Also, sleep appears to be based on a hidden timer, but it's hard to tell. They do tend to go to sleep around the same time as each other, yet not at the same time, so there may be some kind of variation.[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 10:16, 2 April 2008 (EST)

==Object Data?==
Do dwarves even have object data? Should it be included? Cause I wan't to know their size.
—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Yes. First entry in creature standard.txt [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:47, 10 February 2008 (EST)

==Verify tag about throwing peebles==
I'm pretty sure the original writter of that sentence wanted to talk about the boulder throwing tantruming dwarves. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 09:57, 11 February 2008 (EST)

== Fortress ==

Anyone have a map of a typical game-generated fortress? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 15:23, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lifespan ==
Is there any information on how long dwarves live? Because the Queen just died of old age (the fortress is around 11 years old and she came probably 6 years ago). I have a screenshot of the message, but I'm not sure where to put that kind of thing. --[[User:Namako|Namako]] 07:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, but to address your more immediate concern, no dwarf enters the game "fresh" except literal newborns. They all have pasts that were gen'd during world-gen. So the queen was probably past "old age" already. Same thing can happen with "wounded" nobles who show up - they got hit during some world-gen battle (doesn't happen to migrants, afaik). No need to post screenshots, not a bug, not uncommon at all.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::At this point, migrants dont come from world gen populations, so they just "appear" fully grown at your fortress. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Nobody actually answered your question, [MAXAGE:150:170] tag in raw. Dwarves live to be 150-170 years old. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 22:40, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Megabeast

2009-06-14T22:37:29Z

Althalus: Undo revision 41279335 by Althalus (Talk)

#REDIRECT [[Creature]]

40d:Megabeast

2009-06-14T22:34:29Z

Althalus: Made megabeast redirect to megabeasts- not creatures

#REDIRECT [[Category:Megabeasts]]

40d Talk:Cheating

2009-06-12T18:41:49Z

Althalus: /* Reaction Edits */ new section

How come losing redirects here? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:34, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I assume the person who linked it was either trying to help people who keep losing (though cheating is not the advice I would personally give) or say that cheating = losing. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 20:37, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::I changed it. Now there's a full [[losing]] article for all of you losers out there. ;-) --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:58, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== TSearch summary ==

I decieded to break down the TSearch hacking DF video

#Open TSearch and Dwarf Fortress
#Make a new fortress and open Prepare carefuly
#Open the DF process in TSearch(dwarfort.exe)
#Press the search button(looks like a magnifying glass) and search 10 as 1 byte
#Turn all 7 dwarves into competent miners(changing blue number next to their names to 7)
#Press search next(magnifying glass with "..." next to it) and search 7(you will get from 7 to 14)
#Double click the static 7s(the ones that dont change) make sure that the first two variables(may be a letter or number) are the same(in one case, they weren't on mine)
#On the left press one of the 7s and hit freeze(looks like a craftsdrawf)

With this, you can make the dwarf proficient in everything.
To change points, follow numbers 1-3 and then:

#Change points to 94 by buying the dwarves skills
#Search 94 as 1 byte
#Change points to 22
#Search next 22 as 1 bit(you may get 1 to 2 results)
#Double click the static 22
#Change the type(far right) for 22 to 4bit(to prevent getting a glitched number)
#Then change points to whatever you want

Optionaly, change points to 10000 and freeze it. --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 19:23, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Verification with world gens especially with 40c ==

A lot of warnings in here say that the game will fail to load upon editing of a raw file. I have done that to make copper anvils and free adamantine, and I can play a world in its 2nd and 3rd year. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Krumlink|Krumlink]]
:Better safe than sorry. Gen'ing a new world is guaranteed to work, while other methods might not be. If you've got a method that works 100% of the time with any removal/addition/change to any raw file, document it fully and post it here so that others can test it and help you verify it. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:20, 9 December 2008 (EST)

== Reaction Edits ==

Shouldn't we be teaching people to edit the reactions to make something as well as the functional code there? I had a difficult time with them back when i was learning them at first. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 18:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock

2009-06-12T18:34:46Z

Althalus: /* Mechanism Error? */

Interesting color to help the newbies for things that have no other use.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=Color Column=
I think breaking out the color into a separate column (perhaps featuring a block of the actual color) would be very useful. Thoughts? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 17:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:That would be kinda awesome. Any chance someone could could do a breakdown of "How to find"? I've had 12 different embark sites, and I can't for the life of me find one with bauxite... [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Color columns: +1. Do it! You could also just copy/past the tiles from the original table on the [[stone]] page - that would be even better, more info. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[Bauxite]] has a chance of being in any [[Sedimentary layer]].--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=How to Find=
:Re "How to Find" - that would be a diff article, but maybe another we need. This is NOT intended as a guide to everything about the rocks! This is uses for rock - for newbies - so KISS is the rule. Important associations and significance when a new stone is discovered, ''not'' where to find them or why they are not so valuable. Other articles are expected to have "complete info", and newbies should get used to doing their own simple research if they are interested. Trying to include minor info will clutter this sort of presentation, which is fairly large as it stands. For now, click [[bauxite]], read that page, look at the relationships, click those links - figure it out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::This is also going to be irrelevant in later versions due to more rocks having realistic melting temperatures and therefore more magma safe.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::I didn't intend to ask for a complete guide, just enough that I could target my exploration efforts to where it could actually be. Is the standard way of finding things really "Exploratory mining throughout all areas of all biomes that could contain it"? (Or reveal.exe?) Even showing all features in the map, I don't know of a better way to find coal, much less adamantine. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Added a basic "how to", not a complete guide. And yes, that's it - there's no magic to it. There is a bit of local knowledge re what layers/stones might contain what, and depending on what you're looking for (layers, features, large clusters, veins, small clusters) the exact choice of tactics for the exploratory mining varies, but yeah - you dig blind until you stumble upon what you're looking for. That's how "mining" works (in the absence of Reveal.)

:::Example: For coal: We know it's in sedimentary, we know it's a vein, and we know (from [[vein|veins & clusters]] that a vein covers about 3-4 tiles wide and rarely goes in a straight line. So a shaft-grid every 6 tiles is bound to stab into it or right next to it, either of which will reveal it. We also know that area blocks are 48x48. So once we find an area block with a sedimentary layer, we count and find its borders, and dig our starting shaft in 6 diagonal from one corner - and we find out how deep those sedimentary layers go. Then maybe 12 diagonal in from that, and then 12 and 12 more across the block, from one corner to the other. That's 4 shafts in a diagonal across the whole thing. 4 more form a "cross" on the other diagonal if we want. At most, that's 16 to pepper the whole thing at 12-tile intervals - just to start, to get a feel for "what's down there". If we find a large cluster of cheap stone in the middle, we ignore that whole central area and stick to the edges - no sense digging in the middle of a large cluster of microcline, at least not on that [[z-level]]. (And we know from that veins & clusters page that a "large cluster" is about 20x40 - nice big area to avoid.) From there, if we have to, we fill in with a 6-wide pattern to search where we want. If that doesn't find it, either we're incredibly unlucky, or it's not in that block and we move on to the next one.

:::And that's mining, RL and DF.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::::And here I am, thinking you were keeping the arcane knowledge secret. I thought that there was some equivalent of exploratory and mining ''geology'' to be had. (E.G. x forms near boundary between Y and Z) RL geology has elements of "Figure out where it is" and "Look for it" too, but modern geology leans more toward "Figure out where it is" then "Dig shafts everywhere". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I won't say there isn't - just no one's noticed/deciphered it (or if they have they're not talking). Toady has some skill at both geology and simulation - what elements he's incorporated, and how that is presented in the game, I have no idea.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

==Column Size==
The sizes of the columns are rather excessive, especially Aluminum, bauxite, and magnetite. Also includes some unnecessary humor. Bad jokes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:Edit - I missed [[Lamp]]'s earlier edits - just came here and saw your comments. After a series of edits, it's back to where it should be. I hope.
:Lamp - your changes were not consistent with the text of the rest of the article, nor the layout of other stones. There are 4 "value" categories for metals - low, mid, high, and highest (2, 10, 30 & 40). The diff between 30 & 40 is only 33% - significant enough for a rough distinction, and that's all this article is presenting - a new-comer's rough understanding. Adamantine is clearly explained as "not exactly a metal", w/ additional emphasis on its value. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Purpose of Article?==
What was the original purpose of this article? I get this feeling that some of what is here, although useful, is not part of the original purpose. I might be wrong.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:As defined in the opening paragraph of this article (''always a good place to look, at least to start)'', if a new user strikes X type of rock, this article will tell them whether it's valuable or not. So, at a base level, it gives a''' basic idea of the uses of that rock''' - so you've struck microcline or platinum or rhyolite or obsidian, so what?. That has necessarily broadened a bit to add a ''minimum'' understanding of concepts like "material value" and "smelting", without which the comments might be largely meaningless.

:Since it's a wiki, some small latitude should be allowed - but we're not here to tell people where to find rock, nor what the obscure implications are between a layer and rocks within that and the gems within those - just "What does this rock mean?" at a basic level. What you need to know the first day you play.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

::In other words, what should be in the quick-start rules of the manual. It's hard to get new alpha testers when the bar to entry is too high. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 04:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== note on consistency ==

Nice page, but a few things:

No time to edit myself, so I will just jot it down now.

Need consistency in ore ratings. Aluminum is "high" platinum is "highest" but they're the same value, no? Also see the iron ores. Oh and then Adamantine is "THE highest". In my opinion, Gold should be "high", Platinum and Aluminum "very high" and Adamantine "highest".

Just a pet peave, but please use proper spelling. "Altho" is not proper spelling.

Good work.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 22:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Mechanism Error? ==

In the extra note on bauxite, it states that mechanisms may only be made out of stone. This is not the case however, metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge. Not only that, raw adamantine(a rock) can be made into mechanism too. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: it also would be a good idea to mention that adamantine must be made into strands and then into wafers, and it takes 3x as many wafers as it would bars.
...metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge...
:Since when? Mine lists only the 5 trap weapons. You using a mod? (''Adamantine'' mechs, yes, but that's advanced stuff imo. Could add for accuracy, I guess.)
:And don't look now, but "a rock" ''is'' stone. This is not a complete guide to everything about anything listed here - this is a ''basic'' guide about types of stone, for newer players. "Adamantine is really valuable" - nuff said as far as that's concerned. Any additional comment would only be incomplete and open more doors to more details. We're trying to avoid sprawl and redundancies. If they want more, they should go to that article, that's what the links are for.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I was pointing out that raw adamantine WAS a stone and it states bauxite is the magma safe rock. And if its a "basic" we should at least add that adamantine can be used to construct anything but beds.(others?) [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 18:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Cave spider silk

2009-06-12T17:46:24Z

Althalus: broken link, added a redirect to relevant silk, (is there any other default kind?)

#REDIRECT [[Silk]]

40d Talk:Elf

2009-06-12T10:32:13Z

Althalus: /* Elven Age */ new section

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly. I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

::: I've had it happen to me as well, heck, half my map is haunted and frozen year round. Oddly vermin, bats and squirrels and such, make it through fine. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I have had a super agile mace-elf (from a goblin ambush) pass three rows of noquality weapon traps; he then proceeded to ''slaughter'' my chained dogs, black bear, alligator, jaguar and monkeys almost unscratched (his upper body was merely 'tired'). Either the animals are particularly weak, or they failed to attack the invader. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)

== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason. Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼». (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...) I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace. I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk. I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Elven in-laws? ==

Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!

== At War with Elves ==

I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter). Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:

*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message. So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.

*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above). You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.

*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not. So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name. Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name. I found this confusing, actually. Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.

*How can you start a war with Elves? Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?

*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees? I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.

*Is there a way to establish peace with elves? What is necessary to do so? (do you need to have the king?)

*Anything else about being at war with elves?

If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.

== Elven Age ==

It also may be worth mentioning that elves do NOT die from age, due to the lack of [MAXAGE:] tag in their raw, haven't tested in game but it seems more than likely the absence of the tag would cause such an effect. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock

2009-06-12T07:33:01Z

Althalus: /* Mechanism Error */

Interesting color to help the newbies for things that have no other use.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=Color Column=
I think breaking out the color into a separate column (perhaps featuring a block of the actual color) would be very useful. Thoughts? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 17:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:That would be kinda awesome. Any chance someone could could do a breakdown of "How to find"? I've had 12 different embark sites, and I can't for the life of me find one with bauxite... [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Color columns: +1. Do it! You could also just copy/past the tiles from the original table on the [[stone]] page - that would be even better, more info. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[Bauxite]] has a chance of being in any [[Sedimentary layer]].--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=How to Find=
:Re "How to Find" - that would be a diff article, but maybe another we need. This is NOT intended as a guide to everything about the rocks! This is uses for rock - for newbies - so KISS is the rule. Important associations and significance when a new stone is discovered, ''not'' where to find them or why they are not so valuable. Other articles are expected to have "complete info", and newbies should get used to doing their own simple research if they are interested. Trying to include minor info will clutter this sort of presentation, which is fairly large as it stands. For now, click [[bauxite]], read that page, look at the relationships, click those links - figure it out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::This is also going to be irrelevant in later versions due to more rocks having realistic melting temperatures and therefore more magma safe.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::I didn't intend to ask for a complete guide, just enough that I could target my exploration efforts to where it could actually be. Is the standard way of finding things really "Exploratory mining throughout all areas of all biomes that could contain it"? (Or reveal.exe?) Even showing all features in the map, I don't know of a better way to find coal, much less adamantine. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Added a basic "how to", not a complete guide. And yes, that's it - there's no magic to it. There is a bit of local knowledge re what layers/stones might contain what, and depending on what you're looking for (layers, features, large clusters, veins, small clusters) the exact choice of tactics for the exploratory mining varies, but yeah - you dig blind until you stumble upon what you're looking for. That's how "mining" works (in the absence of Reveal.)

:::Example: For coal: We know it's in sedimentary, we know it's a vein, and we know (from [[vein|veins & clusters]] that a vein covers about 3-4 tiles wide and rarely goes in a straight line. So a shaft-grid every 6 tiles is bound to stab into it or right next to it, either of which will reveal it. We also know that area blocks are 48x48. So once we find an area block with a sedimentary layer, we count and find its borders, and dig our starting shaft in 6 diagonal from one corner - and we find out how deep those sedimentary layers go. Then maybe 12 diagonal in from that, and then 12 and 12 more across the block, from one corner to the other. That's 4 shafts in a diagonal across the whole thing. 4 more form a "cross" on the other diagonal if we want. At most, that's 16 to pepper the whole thing at 12-tile intervals - just to start, to get a feel for "what's down there". If we find a large cluster of cheap stone in the middle, we ignore that whole central area and stick to the edges - no sense digging in the middle of a large cluster of microcline, at least not on that [[z-level]]. (And we know from that veins & clusters page that a "large cluster" is about 20x40 - nice big area to avoid.) From there, if we have to, we fill in with a 6-wide pattern to search where we want. If that doesn't find it, either we're incredibly unlucky, or it's not in that block and we move on to the next one.

:::And that's mining, RL and DF.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::::And here I am, thinking you were keeping the arcane knowledge secret. I thought that there was some equivalent of exploratory and mining ''geology'' to be had. (E.G. x forms near boundary between Y and Z) RL geology has elements of "Figure out where it is" and "Look for it" too, but modern geology leans more toward "Figure out where it is" then "Dig shafts everywhere". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I won't say there isn't - just no one's noticed/deciphered it (or if they have they're not talking). Toady has some skill at both geology and simulation - what elements he's incorporated, and how that is presented in the game, I have no idea.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

==Column Size==
The sizes of the columns are rather excessive, especially Aluminum, bauxite, and magnetite. Also includes some unnecessary humor. Bad jokes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:Edit - I missed [[Lamp]]'s earlier edits - just came here and saw your comments. After a series of edits, it's back to where it should be. I hope.
:Lamp - your changes were not consistent with the text of the rest of the article, nor the layout of other stones. There are 4 "value" categories for metals - low, mid, high, and highest (2, 10, 30 & 40). The diff between 30 & 40 is only 33% - significant enough for a rough distinction, and that's all this article is presenting - a new-comer's rough understanding. Adamantine is clearly explained as "not exactly a metal", w/ additional emphasis on its value. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Purpose of Article?==
What was the original purpose of this article? I get this feeling that some of what is here, although useful, is not part of the original purpose. I might be wrong.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:As defined in the opening paragraph of this article (''always a good place to look, at least to start)'', if a new user strikes X type of rock, this article will tell them whether it's valuable or not. So, at a base level, it gives a''' basic idea of the uses of that rock''' - so you've struck microcline or platinum or rhyolite or obsidian, so what?. That has necessarily broadened a bit to add a ''minimum'' understanding of concepts like "material value" and "smelting", without which the comments might be largely meaningless.

:Since it's a wiki, some small latitude should be allowed - but we're not here to tell people where to find rock, nor what the obscure implications are between a layer and rocks within that and the gems within those - just "What does this rock mean?" at a basic level. What you need to know the first day you play.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

::In other words, what should be in the quick-start rules of the manual. It's hard to get new alpha testers when the bar to entry is too high. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 04:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== note on consistency ==

Nice page, but a few things:

No time to edit myself, so I will just jot it down now.

Need consistency in ore ratings. Aluminum is "high" platinum is "highest" but they're the same value, no? Also see the iron ores. Oh and then Adamantine is "THE highest". In my opinion, Gold should be "high", Platinum and Aluminum "very high" and Adamantine "highest".

Just a pet peave, but please use proper spelling. "Altho" is not proper spelling.

Good work.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 22:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Mechanism Error ==

In the extra note on bauxite, it states that mechanisms may only be made out of stone. This is not the case however, metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge. Not only that, raw adamantine(a rock) can be made into mechanism too. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

PS: it also would be a good idea to mention that adamantine must be made into strands and then into wafers, and it takes 3x as many wafers as it would bars.

40d Talk:The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock

2009-06-12T07:24:43Z

Althalus: /* Mechanism Error */ new section

Interesting color to help the newbies for things that have no other use.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=Color Column=
I think breaking out the color into a separate column (perhaps featuring a block of the actual color) would be very useful. Thoughts? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 17:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:That would be kinda awesome. Any chance someone could could do a breakdown of "How to find"? I've had 12 different embark sites, and I can't for the life of me find one with bauxite... [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Color columns: +1. Do it! You could also just copy/past the tiles from the original table on the [[stone]] page - that would be even better, more info. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[Bauxite]] has a chance of being in any [[Sedimentary layer]].--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=How to Find=
:Re "How to Find" - that would be a diff article, but maybe another we need. This is NOT intended as a guide to everything about the rocks! This is uses for rock - for newbies - so KISS is the rule. Important associations and significance when a new stone is discovered, ''not'' where to find them or why they are not so valuable. Other articles are expected to have "complete info", and newbies should get used to doing their own simple research if they are interested. Trying to include minor info will clutter this sort of presentation, which is fairly large as it stands. For now, click [[bauxite]], read that page, look at the relationships, click those links - figure it out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::This is also going to be irrelevant in later versions due to more rocks having realistic melting temperatures and therefore more magma safe.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::I didn't intend to ask for a complete guide, just enough that I could target my exploration efforts to where it could actually be. Is the standard way of finding things really "Exploratory mining throughout all areas of all biomes that could contain it"? (Or reveal.exe?) Even showing all features in the map, I don't know of a better way to find coal, much less adamantine. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Added a basic "how to", not a complete guide. And yes, that's it - there's no magic to it. There is a bit of local knowledge re what layers/stones might contain what, and depending on what you're looking for (layers, features, large clusters, veins, small clusters) the exact choice of tactics for the exploratory mining varies, but yeah - you dig blind until you stumble upon what you're looking for. That's how "mining" works (in the absence of Reveal.)

:::Example: For coal: We know it's in sedimentary, we know it's a vein, and we know (from [[vein|veins & clusters]] that a vein covers about 3-4 tiles wide and rarely goes in a straight line. So a shaft-grid every 6 tiles is bound to stab into it or right next to it, either of which will reveal it. We also know that area blocks are 48x48. So once we find an area block with a sedimentary layer, we count and find its borders, and dig our starting shaft in 6 diagonal from one corner - and we find out how deep those sedimentary layers go. Then maybe 12 diagonal in from that, and then 12 and 12 more across the block, from one corner to the other. That's 4 shafts in a diagonal across the whole thing. 4 more form a "cross" on the other diagonal if we want. At most, that's 16 to pepper the whole thing at 12-tile intervals - just to start, to get a feel for "what's down there". If we find a large cluster of cheap stone in the middle, we ignore that whole central area and stick to the edges - no sense digging in the middle of a large cluster of microcline, at least not on that [[z-level]]. (And we know from that veins & clusters page that a "large cluster" is about 20x40 - nice big area to avoid.) From there, if we have to, we fill in with a 6-wide pattern to search where we want. If that doesn't find it, either we're incredibly unlucky, or it's not in that block and we move on to the next one.

:::And that's mining, RL and DF.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::::And here I am, thinking you were keeping the arcane knowledge secret. I thought that there was some equivalent of exploratory and mining ''geology'' to be had. (E.G. x forms near boundary between Y and Z) RL geology has elements of "Figure out where it is" and "Look for it" too, but modern geology leans more toward "Figure out where it is" then "Dig shafts everywhere". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I won't say there isn't - just no one's noticed/deciphered it (or if they have they're not talking). Toady has some skill at both geology and simulation - what elements he's incorporated, and how that is presented in the game, I have no idea.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

==Column Size==
The sizes of the columns are rather excessive, especially Aluminum, bauxite, and magnetite. Also includes some unnecessary humor. Bad jokes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:Edit - I missed [[Lamp]]'s earlier edits - just came here and saw your comments. After a series of edits, it's back to where it should be. I hope.
:Lamp - your changes were not consistent with the text of the rest of the article, nor the layout of other stones. There are 4 "value" categories for metals - low, mid, high, and highest (2, 10, 30 & 40). The diff between 30 & 40 is only 33% - significant enough for a rough distinction, and that's all this article is presenting - a new-comer's rough understanding. Adamantine is clearly explained as "not exactly a metal", w/ additional emphasis on its value. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Purpose of Article?==
What was the original purpose of this article? I get this feeling that some of what is here, although useful, is not part of the original purpose. I might be wrong.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:As defined in the opening paragraph of this article (''always a good place to look, at least to start)'', if a new user strikes X type of rock, this article will tell them whether it's valuable or not. So, at a base level, it gives a''' basic idea of the uses of that rock''' - so you've struck microcline or platinum or rhyolite or obsidian, so what?. That has necessarily broadened a bit to add a ''minimum'' understanding of concepts like "material value" and "smelting", without which the comments might be largely meaningless.

:Since it's a wiki, some small latitude should be allowed - but we're not here to tell people where to find rock, nor what the obscure implications are between a layer and rocks within that and the gems within those - just "What does this rock mean?" at a basic level. What you need to know the first day you play.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

::In other words, what should be in the quick-start rules of the manual. It's hard to get new alpha testers when the bar to entry is too high. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 04:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== note on consistency ==

Nice page, but a few things:

No time to edit myself, so I will just jot it down now.

Need consistency in ore ratings. Aluminum is "high" platinum is "highest" but they're the same value, no? Also see the iron ores. Oh and then Adamantine is "THE highest". In my opinion, Gold should be "high", Platinum and Aluminum "very high" and Adamantine "highest".

Just a pet peave, but please use proper spelling. "Altho" is not proper spelling.

Good work.
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 22:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Mechanism Error ==

In the extra note on bauxite, it states that mechanisms may only be made out of stone. This is not the case however, metal mechanisms can be forged in the trap comp section of a metal smith's forge. Not only that, raw adamantine(a rock) can be made into mechanism too. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

User:Althalus

2008-09-14T23:01:22Z

Althalus:

==Current research projects==
===Waterwheels===
# Waterwheel over magma, powered? '''S'''
# Waterwheel under a waterfall... is it powered by Z axis water? '''S'''

==Completed research projects==

User:Althalus

2008-09-14T22:53:54Z

Althalus: suspended

==Current research projects==
===Waterwheels===
# '''S''' Waterwheel over magma, powered?
# '''S''' Waterwheel under a waterfall... is it powered by Z axis water?

==Completed research projects==

User:Althalus

2008-09-12T00:34:54Z

Althalus:

==Current research projects==
===Waterwheels===
# Waterwheel over magma, powered?
# Waterwheel under a waterfall... is it powered by Z axis water?
==Completed research projects==

User:Althalus

2008-09-12T00:29:27Z

Althalus: New page: ==Current research projects== ===Waterwheels=== # Waterwheel over magma, powered? # Waterwheel under a waterfall... is it powered by Z axis water?

==Current research projects==
===Waterwheels===
# Waterwheel over magma, powered?
# Waterwheel under a waterfall... is it powered by Z axis water?

40d Talk:Water wheel

2008-08-09T14:05:31Z

Althalus: /* Two Quick Questions... */

==Perpetual motion machine==
I've not used waterwheels yet, so I'm unsure if this is the case, but couldn't you, theoretically, set up a perpetual motion machine using a waterwheel and a screw pump?

The article contradicts itself, it says on the first line "in" a flow, but the next line refers to a flow underneath, which is correct? [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 17:34, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

A perpetual motion device is easy enough to setup once you have an understanding of screwpumps and power. I currently have a water wheel placed between two underground resevoirs that runs a mill and pumps water from the lower tank to the higher one. Its very energy efficient aswell. Three axles, a gear, the mill and the pump only draw 40 power leaving me 60 for other devices.

I'll try get up screenshots of it or maybe a tidier one later --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 19:58, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
==edit comments==

Someone removed my edit, but the water wheel actually only requires one square of water underneath it, not three. - Sludge Man

We could really use better pictures. The tileset in these screenshots is terrible, (lets use the default one) and they are very unclear. I do not understand how to build a working waterwheel after looking at this page.
==Perpetual motion again==
I removed the unclear example of a perpetual motion machine with a forum link to much clearer designs. We still need clear pictures and elaboration of the method of construction. I'll get around to it once I understand it myself, if no one beats me to it. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 15:48, 5 November 2007 (EST)

: Sorry about the tilesets but I didn't think anyone would mind my custom one considering the only noticibly difference is the pump which looks like 2 barrels.
Although my screenshots were specifically for a perpetual motion machine which is why they lacked indepth wheel and pump construction.
I was hoping to create a video or some sort of tutorial to add in the construction section which dealt with creating waterwheels for someone who has absolutely no idea of any of the mechanics.

Also how reliable are the new designs?
I checked out that link and I previously toyed with designs similar to those and found them to be excellent power generators but not true perpetual motion machines, they all lost power intermittedly for varying lengths of time. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Perpendicular to water flow ==

Strange as it may sound, water wheels do 'not' need to be parallel to the water flow direction to work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:This is as in real life - you can build a less efficient water wheel by putting the "buckets" at an angle - and indeed might put the "buckets" on a 360 degree pivot for some purposes.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)
===Water Flow Needed?===
::Actually there is no need for water flow at all. A water wheel seems to generate power even if it is built to a water body with no current (no "entry" or "exit" points). So basically the water wheel just needs to touch water and that's it. This is what I've noticed when confining a canal with floodgates at both ends. --[[User:Flaa|Flaa]] 07:47, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
:::This seems to have changed in a recent version. In previous versions you just had to connect a canal to a brook and the whole canal would count as 'flowing' even when nothing was moving. In my latest game this hasn't worked. So it's either changed, or the fact that I tried a 4-tile wide canal has stopped it working. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Powering a Water Wheel ==

It seems that you can connect a Water Wheel to a Windmill, or other power source and cause it to spin - is there a purpose to doing this? can you move water along channels this way? What are the benefits? --[[User:SeiferTim|SeiferTim]] 12:47, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

::I think that it's because water wheels use power to run. Hence, they produce 100 power by themselves, but end up using 10 to spin, making the net power output only 90. Therefore, most likely the windmills provide that 10 power to the waterwheel. I don't think it does anything, but it does look cool.
--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 05:34, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

==Verify Carpenter==
Does the water wheel require carpentry to build?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 04:11, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Yep--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:15, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks Dorten.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 04:26, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

==Minimum water level==
What is the minimum water level and flow required to power a waterwheel? --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 16:48, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

:1/7 water Hight. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 04:59, 8 June 2008 (EDT)-
::That doesn't sound correct to me... [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:33, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

== Definition of "flow"? ==

The article states that waterwheels need flow under them, but how exactly does the game calculate this?

I was thinking that it means any water changing depth below it, but that would rule out building on a river/ocean full of 7/7 tiles. Will a waterwheel work on top of water full to the brim but supposedly "flowing" (i.e. ocean, full river)? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:I believe that right now a waterwheel will provide power as long as there is at least 4/7 water depth below it, or at least that is what has been the case in my experience, as I don't think a dead end channel would really provide any water flow yet a waterwheel will still provide power if place over one. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:15, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

::Are you sure, though? Juckto (above) seems to believe the state of affairs is a bit more complicated. I guess I can just test it out for myself at some point. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:28, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I'm sure about the minimum being 4/7, never had a waterwheel that would work below that level. Maybe it counts the water as flowing if the water depth changes during x ticks? If thats the case then a closed system would work unless you manage to get all the tiles at the same depth. I doubt the game uses a system much more complicated than that, as it would cause incredible lag checking each tile for depth, direction of flow, speed of flow, and path of least resistance. Not to mention factoring in water pressure and evaporation. Additionally, waterwheels seem to work no matter what their orientation is to the water. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:37, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Hrm, yeah, it seems like you need change of depth for it to count as "flow". Putting in the ocean just don't work.[[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:23, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Change of depth not needed. Putting it in a full river works. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:47, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

== Construction Key? ==

The construction area needs a key. I can't figure out what the O is supposed to be, and I only use the ASCII version of DF.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 11:19, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is a vertical axle. You should know, since you play the pseudo-ASCII version. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:47, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

== Two Quick Questions... ==

would water wheels be powered by water falling down a Z axis onto a waterwheel?

can a waterwheel be used in magma or would it burn?

--[[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:05, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

::Water wheels need to be placed in a channel with water to be powered. AFAIK the channel doesn't have to be any longer than the water wheel, doesn't need water coming in nor going out. The game isn't clever enough yet... (shhh!)
::I think the water has to be depth:3.
::Water wheels have to be made of wood. Any machine that has magma flow through it, if it isn't made of magma-safe material, will burn/melt. You might get a bit of power for a short time but the water wheel would burn (assuming temperature is turned on which it is by default).
::To sign your name properly use the signature button on the toolbar or type "~" four times: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:26, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Waterwheels may not be magma-safe, but the actual structure of the wheel is built one z-level above the magma, rather than in it. Thus it is entirely plausible that a waterwheel could survive being used with magma. Whether it does actually survive such circumstances, and if so whether it starts turning, could do with being tested. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 23:09, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well i guess i will have to do my own experiments on magma wheels, i will report my findings.
--[[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:05, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Water wheel

2008-08-08T21:48:48Z

Althalus: Two Quick Questions...

I've not used waterwheels yet, so I'm unsure if this is the case, but couldn't you, theoretically, set up a perpetual motion machine using a waterwheel and a screw pump?

The article contradicts itself, it says on the first line "in" a flow, but the next line refers to a flow underneath, which is correct? [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 17:34, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

A perpetual motion device is easy enough to setup once you have an understanding of screwpumps and power. I currently have a water wheel placed between two underground resevoirs that runs a mill and pumps water from the lower tank to the higher one. Its very energy efficient aswell. Three axles, a gear, the mill and the pump only draw 40 power leaving me 60 for other devices.

I'll try get up screenshots of it or maybe a tidier one later --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 19:58, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Someone removed my edit, but the water wheel actually only requires one square of water underneath it, not three. - Sludge Man

We could really use better pictures. The tileset in these screenshots is terrible, (lets use the default one) and they are very unclear. I do not understand how to build a working waterwheel after looking at this page.

I removed the unclear example of a perpetual motion machine with a forum link to much clearer designs. We still need clear pictures and elaboration of the method of construction. I'll get around to it once I understand it myself, if no one beats me to it. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 15:48, 5 November 2007 (EST)

: Sorry about the tilesets but I didn't think anyone would mind my custom one considering the only noticibly difference is the pump which looks like 2 barrels.
Although my screenshots were specifically for a perpetual motion machine which is why they lacked indepth wheel and pump construction.
I was hoping to create a video or some sort of tutorial to add in the construction section which dealt with creating waterwheels for someone who has absolutely no idea of any of the mechanics.

Also how reliable are the new designs?
I checked out that link and I previously toyed with designs similar to those and found them to be excellent power generators but not true perpetual motion machines, they all lost power intermittedly for varying lengths of time. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Perpendicular to water flow ==

Strange as it may sound, water wheels do 'not' need to be parallel to the water flow direction to work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:31, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:This is as in real life - you can build a less efficient water wheel by putting the "buckets" at an angle - and indeed might put the "buckets" on a 360 degree pivot for some purposes.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)
===Water Flow Needed?===
::Actually there is no need for water flow at all. A water wheel seems to generate power even if it is built to a water body with no current (no "entry" or "exit" points). So basically the water wheel just needs to touch water and that's it. This is what I've noticed when confining a canal with floodgates at both ends. --[[User:Flaa|Flaa]] 07:47, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
:::This seems to have changed in a recent version. In previous versions you just had to connect a canal to a brook and the whole canal would count as 'flowing' even when nothing was moving. In my latest game this hasn't worked. So it's either changed, or the fact that I tried a 4-tile wide canal has stopped it working. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Powering a Water Wheel ==

It seems that you can connect a Water Wheel to a Windmill, or other power source and cause it to spin - is there a purpose to doing this? can you move water along channels this way? What are the benefits? --[[User:SeiferTim|SeiferTim]] 12:47, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

::I think that it's because water wheels use power to run. Hence, they produce 100 power by themselves, but end up using 10 to spin, making the net power output only 90. Therefore, most likely the windmills provide that 10 power to the waterwheel. I don't think it does anything, but it does look cool.
--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 05:34, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

==Verify Carpenter==
Does the water wheel require carpentry to build?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 04:11, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Yep--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:15, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks Dorten.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 04:26, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

==Minimum water level==
What is the minimum water level and flow required to power a waterwheel? --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 16:48, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

:1/7 water Hight. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 04:59, 8 June 2008 (EDT)-
::That doesn't sound correct to me... [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:33, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

== Definition of "flow"? ==

The article states that waterwheels need flow under them, but how exactly does the game calculate this?

I was thinking that it means any water changing depth below it, but that would rule out building on a river/ocean full of 7/7 tiles. Will a waterwheel work on top of water full to the brim but supposedly "flowing" (i.e. ocean, full river)? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:I believe that right now a waterwheel will provide power as long as there is at least 4/7 water depth below it, or at least that is what has been the case in my experience, as I don't think a dead end channel would really provide any water flow yet a waterwheel will still provide power if place over one. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:15, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

::Are you sure, though? Juckto (above) seems to believe the state of affairs is a bit more complicated. I guess I can just test it out for myself at some point. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:28, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I'm sure about the minimum being 4/7, never had a waterwheel that would work below that level. Maybe it counts the water as flowing if the water depth changes during x ticks? If thats the case then a closed system would work unless you manage to get all the tiles at the same depth. I doubt the game uses a system much more complicated than that, as it would cause incredible lag checking each tile for depth, direction of flow, speed of flow, and path of least resistance. Not to mention factoring in water pressure and evaporation. Additionally, waterwheels seem to work no matter what their orientation is to the water. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:37, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Hrm, yeah, it seems like you need change of depth for it to count as "flow". Putting in the ocean just don't work.[[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:23, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Change of depth not needed. Putting it in a full river works. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:47, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

== Construction Key? ==

The construction area needs a key. I can't figure out what the O is supposed to be, and I only use the ASCII version of DF.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 11:19, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is a vertical axle. You should know, since you play the pseudo-ASCII version. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:47, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

== Two Quick Questions... ==

would water wheels be powered by water falling down a Z axis onto a waterwheel?

can a waterwheel be used in magma or would it burn?

-Althalus