Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Item value

2026-08-16T10:33:10Z

87.143.68.232: /* Weapon and shield/buckler base value */ new section

== New food value ==

Made a finely-prepared +plump helmet roast+ (18). It has a value of 216☼. Its total value of 216 divided by its stack size of 18 equals 12 value. The finely prepared multiplier of 1.2 times base meal value of 10 also equals a value of 12. Since all the value is coming from the meal, it seems that either ingredients value doesn't matter or ingredient values below 1 get rounded down. (Finely-minced plump helmet should be worth 0.6☼). [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 08:36, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:From what I can see, it should be adding up the individual values of each ingredient (with each ingredient having a minimum value of 1☼) and then dividing the '''total''' by the number of ingredients, so no matter what, the overall value of each meal should be at least 1☼ more than what you would get from the base item's material and quality. I haven't yet analyzed the logic for calculating the value of each individual ingredient, though, so that question is still open. Additionally, the value of an item with Fine quality should be 1.2x plus an additional 6, so it's possible the base value of a prepared meal is no longer 10. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 13:28, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::I've just analyzed version 51.06, and there were a total of 3 changes: 1) FOOD items now have a base value of 1 rather than 10; 2) Food Ingredient value no longer gains an additive bonus from quality, only multiplicative; 3) The total value from ingredients is divided by the number of ingredients. Doing the math, your meals are worth ((1 * 2 * 6/5 + 6) + (2 * 2 * N + 2 * 2 * N + 2 * 2 * N + 2 * 2 * N) / 4) * 18 == 216 (where N is always less than 1.25, assuming that none of the ingredients were Superiorly minced). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 14:57, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

== Gem Decorations ==

This page states that all decorations (except on bolts) have a base value of 10, while the decorations page says that decorations made from cut gemstones (but not cut glass or stone) have a base value of 20. Since cut gems themselves have a base value of 20 with no quality multiplier, I suspect the decorations page is correct, since otherwise decorating items with gems will almost always lose you value unless the decoration is masterwork, since the base value change from 20 -> 10 will have a greater effect than adding the quality multiplier which maxes at x2. Either way, at least one of the pages is wrong ...

[[Special:Contributions/104.205.119.2|104.205.119.2]] 01:14, 14 August 2025 (UTC)
:Looking at a disassembly, item improvements made of GEM materials indeed have a base value of 20, while all other decorations have a base value of 10. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 18:58, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

== Musical Instruments ==

There seems to be no real information on how the item value for multi-part music instruments is calculated. In any case (for the music instruments (and their parts) brought by traders) it seems to be the case that all silk strings out of divine cloth is usually about 3 times as valuable as a finished instrument containing such an item, so it seems that - depending on the base value of the instrument parts - also players might be able to lose value by assembling instruments (they can make) to complete instruments.

[[Special:Contributions/87.143.77.206|87.143.77.206]] 11:09, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

Well turns out that silk strings parts of any and all instruments have their value computed slightly differently. The value is three times the normal value (regardless of material, as ie. also metals used as silk string material via gm-editor show that behaviour), except that the value increase from higher quality only gives the "normal" additional value increase (so masterwork shining wisp <instrument name> strings are only worth 9600 and not 10800). That value increase is lost, when the strings are used in an instrument. Silk material in metal string parts do behave normally. (I have not tested plant cloth string components, so it is an open question, whether the plant cloth string of musical instruments with plant cloth string components behave as silk string components or metal string components).

I consider this behaviour a feature (and not a bug) and I will leave it to someone else to file a bug report (if they think that this is a bug, that deserves fixing, and not a feature). I will also not update the article for now.

Otherwise the value calculation is as if the instrument components were decorations. Meaning the value of the instrument components is added to the final value of the completed instrument, the base value (of the instrument) is the material value (of the main component) multiplied by item value (50) and adjusted by the quality modifier (if any) of the newly created instrument.

[[Special:Contributions/87.143.77.206|87.143.77.206]] 16:25, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Strings from instruments with cloth strings are handled in the same way as silk strings from instruments with silk strings. [[Special:Contributions/87.143.77.206|87.143.77.206]] 15:22, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

== Weapon and shield/buckler base value ==

It seems that the base value of weapons and shields/bucklers is now always 10 and thus the tables with the individual weapon/shield base values is now deprecated (as is the note concerning that the base value for weapons is variable). So far I only did check whips, long swords, great axes, halberds, crossbow, training axes, mace and pick (always without quality level), so there is a small possibility that in some cases the base values in the weapons table are still used (allthough very unlikely). (But I did check both bucklers and shields.)

ps. I do not know when the change did occur, but it most have been at least since the siege update (possibly before).[[Special:Contributions/87.143.68.232|87.143.68.232]] 10:33, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Trading

2026-08-16T10:09:48Z

87.143.68.232: /* Grown Shields and (grown) bucklers */ new section

== Elves ==
I'm working on rewriting this page to take into account all of the changes to diplomacy and the civilizations screen since it was last updated. There's a lot of work to do.

One of the biggest changes was how elven ethics changed to reject IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL items. I updated it with everything I was reasonably sure about, but some things I'm only partially sure about and some things are just completely untested. I intend to check these myself, but if anyone wants to do the work in the meantime, I wouldn't mind.

These items I haven't tested and I'm completely unsure about:
* <s>[[Milk]] and [[cheese]]. These don't have [[Material definition token#IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL|IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL]] but they are obviously animal products</s>
** ''Tested cheese, didn't have any milk in an elf-safe container but that shouldn't be hard to arrange [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 16:12, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
** ''Milk is okay too, huh [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 16:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
* [[Extract]]s - Likewise. Both plant and animal extracts would need to be tested separately
* [[Venom]] - Also likewise, although this will be hard to test
* <s>Gem windows and large gems made of crystal or clear glass</s>
**''Gem windows are buildings, not discrete objects, duh. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
**''I tested large gems made of horn and they got bounced. I need to test large clear glass gems but I think it does check mats on large gems. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
**''Large clear and crystal glass gems are indeed unacceptable'' [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 09:53, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
* <s>[[Remains]] (can these even be hauled to the depot? I forget)</s>
**''they can't [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 15:43, 13 January 2023 (UTC))''
* [[Codex|Codices]] <s>and [[traction bench]]es</s>. These items can involve [[parchment]] [[sheet]]s or [[wool]] [[rope]]s in their creation. Due to a bug, they can lose the material definition from these components as part of assembling a [[quire]] into a codex or a [[table]], rope, and [[mechanism]] into a traction bench. Note that a codex made with a [[wood]]en [[Book binding|binding]] or a traction bench made with a wooden table would not be acceptable in any case.
** ''Both of the parts of a traction bench that can be non-elf-safe are still present on the final product, so this isn't accurate for them. Still need to test with books [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 02:03, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
* [[Instrument]]s are just a giant question mark
* [[Scroll]]s made with [[scroll roller]]s made from [[wood]] or clear or crystal [[glass]], or [[Codex|codices]] bound with [[hair]] or [[wool]]en [[thread]].

There are a few things I was sure enough about to put/keep in the article itself, but I do want to double-check:
* <s>Soap made from oil. The bug report is still open but the soap material template seems to be IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL regardless of the source lipid, unless I'm misreading it.</s>
** ''Whatever it is, plant soap is okay and tallow soap is not. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
* <s>Bee stuff. No IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL but I haven't tried to trade them in particular</s>
** ''Wax is okay. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 05:00, 3 February 2023 (UTC)''
* Blood. IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL and would be very hard to test, mainly on there because I'm pretty sure about it and it's funny
* The glass stuff.
** ''The raw glass/cut glass bug is still there. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 17:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''
* <s>Eggs. IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL but I haven't tested it</s>
** ''Eggs get bounced [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 01:14, 17 January 2023 (UTC)''
* <s>Is charcoal actually offensive? I've never really tried to sell my precious, precious fuel</s>
** ''Yes, as is ash lol [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 16:59, 13 January 2023 (UTC)''

Stuff that might be questionable but I've tested myself:
* Ash glaze bug is still there.

Ideally a [[Template:Mod]] section with a full rundown of what makes an item offensive to elves would be also helpful, but it's a bit beyond my depth. I assume items with IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL are not okay, and any item tagged as grown is always okay even if it would otherwise be unacceptable, but I don't know how the tree taboo works, or how grown items are flagged. This would be cool to have but I don't know enough about the internal workings to write it. [[User:Desistance|Desistance]] ([[User talk:Desistance|talk]]) 04:20, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

==Selling animals that are historical figures==
I am not sure where this tidbit of info belongs, but any animals, that are historical figures, that are sold to a caravan will retain their allegiance to your civilization (even offspring from bonded animals many generations down).[[Special:Contributions/91.49.240.46|91.49.240.46]] 15:47, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

== Elven Caravan Goods ==

To me it seems as if the elven caravans currently will no longer bring plant cloth, plant cloth threads, cloth bags (eg. with sand), cloth quivers, cloth backpacks or cloth ropes, eventhough (except for backpacks) the article on elves claims that they will do. And while I did not find the entry (under .resources for ropes/chains) the entries under .resources.misc_mat (for quivers and backpacks) in the entity definitions for elves (civ and site govs) are empty and the temp_furniture/perm_furniture entry does also not contain an entry for cloth materials (so no bags), allthough the entry under .resources.misc_mat.sand is usually not empty (so the elves should usually have some type of sand), also the entry under resources.organic.fiber is always empty. So while I am not 100% sure that these entries are responsible, whether elven caravan can bring the aforementioned goods or not (and I currently have other priorities than testing, whether a modification to the above entries would result in the elven caravan bringing those goods), I will leave this info here for now - instead of updating the corresponding article(s). And at least in case of plant threads, plant cloth, plant bags, plant ropes and sand bags this might be considered a bug (if that is really currently always the case with newly created worlds in v53.11 or older v53.x created worlds).

ps. The above entity definition entries refer to what dfhack shows in df.global.world.entities.all[elven_civ_or_site_id] (ie. when using gui/gm-editor).[[Special:Contributions/87.143.78.49|87.143.78.49]] 17:26, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

== Food emergency rations ==

The last edit seems to be incorrect (or better incomplete). For the calculation, if additional food, aside from the ie. usual 25% to 33% food of human caravans, should be brought all animals (which are not vermin and listed under the livestock tab) are counted (easily deduceable by the carnivour and omnivour count under activity stats of plotinfo for each caravan, when the caravan leaves or better has already packed and leaves the map). The carnivourous animals only matter, what amount should be fish/meat.

ps. Just nitpicking.[[Special:Contributions/91.49.254.117|91.49.254.117]] 18:20, 5 June 2026 (UTC)
:I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but what the game is actually doing is that caravans attempt to bring ``(plotinfo.activity_stats.population * 5) - (plotinfo.activity_stats.food.total - plotinfo.activity_stats.food.seeds - plotinfo.activity_stats.food.drink)`` units of "any food" (meat, fish, plants) and they ''also'' attempt to bring ``(plotinfo.activity_stats.carnivores * 5) - (plotinfo.activity_stats.food.meat + plotinfo.activity_stats.food.fish)`` units of Meat or Fish. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 19:22, 5 June 2026 (UTC)
::Well all is fine (but see last part of this post), if indeed the variable population (stored in the activity stats) is used for the calculation, but then again the game likes to count the population wrongly, ie. counting all historical figures alongside the abstract population, when calculating the population shown in the embark screen, allthough (especially after fortress retirement) the historical figures (of that civ) could potentially contain a whole lot of animals (and pack animals from merchant caravans not being the only culprit, but all offspring of bonded and alive or "undead" animals - "undead" because the game does not "kill" "historical animals", who were traded, when they reach their max age). Still are you sure that the caravan will only bring extra meat and fish, if that part of the extra rations check is failed? If that were the case a certain save game someone else did load up (so you figured the issue out) should not have contained any plump helmets (and other plants) as that part of the extra rations check would have then been fulfilled, but are you sure that the caravan did not contain any plump helmets (or other edible plants)? (Granted the caravans can intersperse food items between emergency provisions, when items are loaded onto wagons and pack animals).[[Special:Contributions/91.49.254.117|91.49.254.117]] 01:18, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

== Trade sentiment (and merchant's profit) ==

I put this info on the talk page (and not in the article), as the data was obtained manipulating the history event of last years caravan (in a game, which was upgraded to version v53.14 from an earlier v53 version) and it is still unclear to me, whether the complete trade profit history matters (or only last years profit). Also no trade flags like "vanished", "hardship", "seized", "offended" (or "tribute") were set. Also the season for the caravan's arrival had already arrived, so that there was already an entry under "timed_events" for the caravan (before the history event entry was manipulated). So with some profit margins (or trade sentiment) it might be, that usually no caravan of that civ would arrive (as no entry for that caravan would be created under timed_events with that trade sentiment with the start of a season). Also no tests with a longer trade history were done.
If the initial value and the value with which the caravan did leave, were left at zero, then the trade sentiments were "cautious", which seems to be the initial trade sentiment for the first caravan from each civilization (with the possible exception of the home civ's caravan) after having made contact and without using a messenger to "improve trade".
If the profit margin was at least 0% but below 20%, then the trade sentiments were "lukewarm". If at least 20% but below 50%, then the trade sentiments were "good". If at least 50% but below 70%, then "very good". If at least 70% but below 80%, then "great". And with at least 80% profit, then the trade sentiments were "fantastic". If the caravan did leave with 40% or less of the initial value (eg. the caravan did leave with goods worth 40,000 dwarfbucks or less but did arrive with 100,000 dwarfbucks), then the trade sentiments were "terrible". And if the caravan did leave with a loss, but did leave with more than 40% of the initial value (ie. the caravan did leave with goods worth 40,001 dwarfbucks and did arrive with 100,000 dwarfbucks), then the trade sentiments were "tenuous at best".[[Special:Contributions/91.49.245.123|91.49.245.123]] 13:20, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

Trade sentiments (from improve trade relations) also do not necessarily go down, due to "low merchant profits" of the last caravan. It seems to depend on total value of last years caravan, ie. four elven civs trade sentiments stayed at fantastic, despite really low profis (somewhere about 1%, allthough nearly everything was bought). Also so far trade sentiments did at most go down by one level (without additional improve trade relations).
ps. Still putting this on the talk page and not the article, as I am still on v53.14 (with my current long-term fortress game) and the info is from that game.[[Special:Contributions/91.49.242.109|91.49.242.109]] 02:17, 9 August 2026 (UTC)

== Grown Shields and (grown) bucklers ==

It seems that grown shields and grown bucklers are considered to be worth at least 10 dwarfbucks more by human merchants (then the otherwise calculated price). Allthough in some cases - even without any quality - the price difference might be even more (allthough in these cases the shields/bucklers have to be decorated). So far all of these grown shields (and bucklers) were - originally - elven made, so I do not know, whether the value increase (for human merchants) does also apply to shields and bucklers made by dwarven hands (from grown wood logs). I did not notice such a value difference for "grown wood clothing/armor".[[Special:Contributions/87.143.68.232|87.143.68.232]] 10:09, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

Talk:Decoration

2026-08-16T08:13:03Z

87.143.68.232: /* Decoration multiplier */ new section

Re: Only one image per item/statue decoration verification.

In my current game, I have a decorated statue with two images, they are also images made out of gems. It this a bug or a new feature?

[[image:Description_statue_two-images_v50.07.png|400px]]

[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 23:02, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

== Decoration multiplier ==

It seems that the decoration multiplier for "own race" is applied (at least by the human merchants) to all images depicting either entity races or animal people (and not just images depicting humans). Furthermore if an image has multiple elements (ie. a dwarven historical figure as one element and dwarves as another) then the applied modifier is ("own_race" modifier + ("own_race" modifier - 256))/256 - or more general for each additional image element depicting an "own race" after the first an additional ("own_race" - 256)/256 is added to the own_race modifier.

ps. While the same should apply to elven merchants, it might be that images with goblins still give 0 (as they are evil), but then I currently do not have any items decorated with images which do have goblins in it.

pps. I am not yet certain, whether the "own race" modifier also applies to Satyrs etc. (which are not strictly thought of as "animal people").[[Special:Contributions/87.143.68.232|87.143.68.232]] 08:13, 16 August 2026 (UTC)