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Editing v0.31 Talk:Weapon
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== Weight of the weapon == | == Weight of the weapon == | ||
− | + | {{L|Weight}} now seems to play a significant factor in determining a weapon's effectiveness. A weapon that is very light ''(made of {{L|adamantine}}, for instance)'' will not be as effective as a heavier one. This needs more research. | |
-Moved discussion material to the discussion page | -Moved discussion material to the discussion page | ||
[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 03:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC) | [[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 03:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC) | ||
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*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING] | *[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING] | ||
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING] | *[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING] | ||
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== TRAINING WEAPONS == | == TRAINING WEAPONS == | ||
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: There's a minor bug, wooden training axes can be used to cut down trees. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | : There's a minor bug, wooden training axes can be used to cut down trees. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
− | + | == MOODS & FOREIGN WEAPONS == | |
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I had a dwarf make a blowgun via a mood. Is this expected behaviour or a bug? Either way I think it should be noted that you can create foreign weapons via moods. [[User:EvilGrin|EvilGrin]] 23:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | I had a dwarf make a blowgun via a mood. Is this expected behaviour or a bug? Either way I think it should be noted that you can create foreign weapons via moods. [[User:EvilGrin|EvilGrin]] 23:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC) | ||
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::Did the dwarf had a certain affinity for blowguns or was he a blowgunner?--[[Special:Contributions/190.231.136.138|190.231.136.138]] 23:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | ::Did the dwarf had a certain affinity for blowguns or was he a blowgunner?--[[Special:Contributions/190.231.136.138|190.231.136.138]] 23:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
− | + | == Poison on ammunition/weapons == | |
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All the underground races wear only spears or blowguns. The blowgun darts poison the attacked creature. How? Cause they are poisoned. And the poison is on the BLOWDARTS! Just View them and look at the blowdarts. As far as I saw they have either cave spider venom or GIANT cave spider venom on them. So you can poison you weapons by dropping poison on them, but how? --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 18:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC) | All the underground races wear only spears or blowguns. The blowgun darts poison the attacked creature. How? Cause they are poisoned. And the poison is on the BLOWDARTS! Just View them and look at the blowdarts. As far as I saw they have either cave spider venom or GIANT cave spider venom on them. So you can poison you weapons by dropping poison on them, but how? --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 18:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC) | ||
− | :Dwarves don't have that option. We can extract venom from phantom spiders and cave spiders, but we can't apply it to anything. See [[Extracts]]. | + | :Dwarves don't have that option. We can extract venom from phantom spiders and cave spiders, but we can't apply it to anything. See [[Extracts]]. |
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== One-handed or two-handed? == | == One-handed or two-handed? == | ||
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I'm not sure how the weapon's one handed versus two-handed status would be shown, as it appears to vary based on the race you are playing, but if it can be shown without too much confusion, I feel it would be for the better. A section explaining one-handed versus two-handed weapon use would be useful, if only to have it officially unknown what the effects are. | I'm not sure how the weapon's one handed versus two-handed status would be shown, as it appears to vary based on the race you are playing, but if it can be shown without too much confusion, I feel it would be for the better. A section explaining one-handed versus two-handed weapon use would be useful, if only to have it officially unknown what the effects are. | ||
[[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC) | [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC) | ||
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== Maces vs. Hammers == | == Maces vs. Hammers == | ||
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They are both blunt weapons of same size, so what is the difference between the two? | They are both blunt weapons of same size, so what is the difference between the two? | ||
− | :Training with a warhammer increases the hammer skill, which is also used by marksdwarves when they run out of ammo and beat their enemies with their crossbows. If your weaponsmith has a preference for either weapon it makes sense to make that one. According to | + | :Training with a warhammer increases the hammer skill, which is also used by marksdwarves when they run out of ammo and beat their enemies with their crossbows. If your weaponsmith has a preference for either weapon it makes sense to make that one. According to {{L|Item value}}, warhammers are worth twice as much as maces. But whether there's any difference in combat between the two weapons, I don't think anyone can yet say. If there's a difference it should be discernible by testing in the arena. [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 07:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC) |
:The raws for the two weapons are as follows | :The raws for the two weapons are as follows | ||
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[MATERIAL_SIZE:3] | [MATERIAL_SIZE:3] | ||
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]</code> | [ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]</code> | ||
− | :I remember hearing that the only difference in the initial | + | :I remember hearing that the only difference in the initial DF2010 release was the smaller contact area of the warhammer, but it appears that the size of the mace has increased since then. Now, the mace has twice the size (and therefore, mass and weight) as well as contact area of a warhammer. The mace is heavier, and may slow your troops down slightly more, but it should deliver the same force per square inch (or whatever unit you wish to use), and do it over a larger area, which I 'think' would make it more deadly. I'm not an expert on Dwarf Fortress combat, so if you want more detail or more reliable answers you could check out the forums. [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC) |
:I just tested them in 0.31.12 in the arena by a mass melee of 18 macedwarves vs. 18 hammerdwarves, all of them decked out in bronze armor with an iron mace/warhammer, and each at "skilled" level in all basic (non-weapon-specific) combat skills along with "skilled" the appropriate weapon skill (mace/hammer). It ended with 12 hammerdwarves still standing and all macedwarves dead, and in a second test with 13 hammerdwarves still standing. | :I just tested them in 0.31.12 in the arena by a mass melee of 18 macedwarves vs. 18 hammerdwarves, all of them decked out in bronze armor with an iron mace/warhammer, and each at "skilled" level in all basic (non-weapon-specific) combat skills along with "skilled" the appropriate weapon skill (mace/hammer). It ended with 12 hammerdwarves still standing and all macedwarves dead, and in a second test with 13 hammerdwarves still standing. | ||
:I went on to test similar setups (regarding armor, skill setup, and iron weapons) with the other weapons. Swords and axes were close with swords being perhaps slightly better, with spears, maces, and hammers doing better than either of those. Spears seemed like a bit of a wild card; mostly they would overwhelmingly lose against maces or hammers, but sometimes they would just about break even (once with 20vs20 spears vs hammers, only 2 hammerdwarves survived). So, from my testing, it seems to me that against armored opponents, the progression is something like: axes>swords>>>spears>>maces>>hammers. I did a quick unarmored test out of curiosity with swords vs hammers (I did give them shields, though), and it's perhaps no surprise that the swordsdwarves won pretty overwhelmingly in that case two times in a row (11 and 13 surviving, respectively). I ran 4 unarmored hammer vs. mace battles, and hammers won 3 out of 4 of those with around half surviving, with the fourth battle being barely won by maces. So without armor, hammers still seem to be the better weapon of the two, if not by as much. Then again, the RNG might have just been throwing me some crazy results the whole time. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC) | :I went on to test similar setups (regarding armor, skill setup, and iron weapons) with the other weapons. Swords and axes were close with swords being perhaps slightly better, with spears, maces, and hammers doing better than either of those. Spears seemed like a bit of a wild card; mostly they would overwhelmingly lose against maces or hammers, but sometimes they would just about break even (once with 20vs20 spears vs hammers, only 2 hammerdwarves survived). So, from my testing, it seems to me that against armored opponents, the progression is something like: axes>swords>>>spears>>maces>>hammers. I did a quick unarmored test out of curiosity with swords vs hammers (I did give them shields, though), and it's perhaps no surprise that the swordsdwarves won pretty overwhelmingly in that case two times in a row (11 and 13 surviving, respectively). I ran 4 unarmored hammer vs. mace battles, and hammers won 3 out of 4 of those with around half surviving, with the fourth battle being barely won by maces. So without armor, hammers still seem to be the better weapon of the two, if not by as much. Then again, the RNG might have just been throwing me some crazy results the whole time. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC) | ||
:One can analyze the arena combat logs in a spreadsheet, by sorting the events (by ",in the bodypart" and ",through the X armor") and counting successful and failing hits. Pretty easy to do 30 vs 30 test, the boring part is adding the armor to the dwarves. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | :One can analyze the arena combat logs in a spreadsheet, by sorting the events (by ",in the bodypart" and ",through the X armor") and counting successful and failing hits. Pretty easy to do 30 vs 30 test, the boring part is adding the armor to the dwarves. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
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+ | == Wooden Weapons? == | ||
+ | Each time I get elven traders, they have wooden weapons and armour for sale. e.g wooden long swords and wooden breast plates. | ||
+ | It doesn't say that they are training weapons either. But in the wiki here, it says that you can't get wooden weapons. | ||
+ | [[Special:Contributions/219.89.205.8|219.89.205.8]] 05:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
+ | :If you read the notice on the Foreign Weapons section, you would know that those "allowed materials" are actually useless for unmodded dwarf mode. Since I don't think this page is about modding, I'll remove the materials. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 16:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
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+ | == Can Dwarves Use These? == | ||
+ | I noticed that the 2010 version has no notes about dwarves not being able to use things like pikes, mauls, two-handed swords, and great axes. Has this changed since 40D? I get a lot of pikedwarfs. [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 16:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
+ | : I think they can use pikes and other large weapons if you decrease the weapon's required-user-size. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC) | ||
== We dont have wooden training hammers but... == | == We dont have wooden training hammers but... == | ||
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How does a weapon made in a mood affect the weapons effectiveness? Does it at all? Also when weapons are named what difference does this make? | How does a weapon made in a mood affect the weapons effectiveness? Does it at all? Also when weapons are named what difference does this make? | ||
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== Columns Mean Whatnow? == | == Columns Mean Whatnow? == | ||
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:If you're just being confused by the big lists o' numbers, forget 'em and ask yourself if you want your dwarves to be waving around axes or spears or whatnot. Then make lots of your choice. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC) | :If you're just being confused by the big lists o' numbers, forget 'em and ask yourself if you want your dwarves to be waving around axes or spears or whatnot. Then make lots of your choice. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC) | ||
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