Editing 40d Talk:Immigration

==Migration after Abandoning==

I just ran into a group of migrants in Adventurer mode. After killing them all, I went into Legends and realized that they were all dwarves fleeing my previously abandoned fortress. Apparently about a year after abandoning, they decided to move somewhere else. Does anyone else have further info/experimentation with this? 

==Multiple civs==
What information do we have about the relationship between immigration rate and the number of dwarven civs? Is there info? Is there a relation? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

==Comments regarding new version==
Don't know how much of this info is still valid. For example, the line "Notably, the incredibly useful Manager requires at least twenty dwarves." is a hold-over from the previous wiki. In fact, most of the noble-related info is outdated.
I'm going to edit out anything that I ''know'' to be wrong. Get rid of the wrong stuff, and we can start getting correct stuff in instead.[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The validation abilities of the manager still only appear after you have 20 dwarfs. But you can access the screen before that happens. Don't know if this validation has any additional effect or if the managers even work before that.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, the manager will work just fine when you have less than 20 dwarfs. He will need an office if you have more than 20 dwarfs.--[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 16:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

==migration vs location on world map==
I have a nagging sense from playing a year or two in a few different areas that the number of migrants is a bit more random now. I have one decently wealthy young outpost located far from it's civilization on the map which has gotten very few immigrants in the first two years. Perhaps with groups now moving on the overall map, it is more important to be close to your civilization's area so immigrant groups arrive more quickly and are less likely to get ambushed on the way? Pure conjecture on my part and not backed by any real evidence, but an interesting idea nonetheless. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:15, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Well, my first throw-away fortress got gigantic immigration crowds every single season. Then I abandoned, rerolled the world, and started a new fortress. It produces worlds more wealth than my first fortress, but I have only gotten one immigration wave on the second Spring, bringing my numbers to 24. I then received my second immigration on the start of the third Spring, bringing me up to 48 dwarves. I was very worried up until I got that first wave in the spring... I almost thought I was going to have to scrap the fortress and start again. For reference, I receive elf, human, and dwarf traders. No sieges yet. I have no deaths so far. It would seem that the MAXIMUM immigration amount is 24 for one season. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 23:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::I've gotten 25 immigrants in one wave, but one of these was a child, which may ironically go into the 'pets' category rather than 'dwarf' category.  Do children have parents when they come with immigrants?  -Gotthard
::: I've had a family of four come in one wave-Husband and Wife and 2 children. The children were very sad when their mother got killed by a goblin. I also had a dwarf born from parents in my first immigration wave. Has anyone every had two dwarfs marry? Not arrive married but get married at your fort. Just wondering if it's possible.  --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::::With this latest version release (0.27.176.38a), dwarves can indeed marry each other at your fortress. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 04:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Just to confirm, I have to confirmed marriages at my fortress (these were both from my original seven dwarves) [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 06:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh, this has been known since, like, version 0.27.176.38a. Did you not read that comment properly, much less check the date of it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:57, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::Update: On the summer of my third year, I finally received some migrants! Woooo. I received about 12 immigrants. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 01:35, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

::Happend to me sometimes to, you have to wait for immigrants sometimes. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==clarification on editing ini file==
One point of conflict in this article.  It states that once the immigration limit is reached normal immigration is ceased. It then encourages a method of editing the init file to curb immigration.  It says to just reedit it when you want more dwarfs.  In my findings when I use this tactic as soon as my limit is hit I get no more dwarfs, even after reediting the init file to a higher number.

The section where it says "A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration." is really obvious and there's no other information there. I think it should be removed, or at least made part of the general information. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]

--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:17, 17 February 2008 (EST)
==Talk Page from Migrant==
This page should be merged with the page on immigration. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:47, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:Agreed, and done --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)


I felt this edited out info is worth keeping here as hint for further investigations.

 === Immigration Triggers ===
 
 Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by   hitting 'Z') reaches:
 
 * 5,000
 * 10,000
 * 100,000
 * 140,000
 * 165,000 (?)
 * 300,000
 * 340,000


== Equipment ==

(This should probably go on the Migrant talk page, but this page seems to be busier)

Will an immigrant always arrive with the necessary equipment to perform his skills? ie, will a hunter always arrive with a crossbow, armour and bolts? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:nope, sometimes you get an immigrant who doesn't have the right equipment. (Had woodworkers with carpentry and wood cutting skills withouth an axe). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:46, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::I think it depends a bit on how multi-skilled they are: if he had been a [[woodcutter]] he would have had an axe but as he was a woodworker... well, carpenters need a workshop not an axe.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

 '''Immigrant's equipment'''<br />A migrant may not not always come with the necessary equipment... <br />...a Wood cutter may or may not come with a battle axe.... <br />Rarely, ...a Carpenter may come with a battle axe. 
I've seen a lot of migrants - I cannot remember ''any'' axes ''ever'' showing up except with axedwarves.  Ambushers do the "free leather armor/crossbow/bolts" dance, and military dwarves sometimes come armed/armored, but can anyone confirm that the above is, even rarely, a valid statement for ''any'' other equipment? The poster above (Soyweiser) posted back in '07, several versions ago.  Axes? Picks? I've never seen either. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Combat Immigrants ==

I have yet to have any of my immigrants to show up as military types, even though I've at least produced crossbows in every fort I've run so far.  Had one fort reach it's 6th year and have crafted every type of weapon available without a single dwarf showing up with combat skills.  Anyone verify that this is still true?    --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)

You were just unlucky. I have forged some hammers and axes and a hammer and a axe soldier showed up at my fort [[Doler 12]], 18:11 19 November 2007 (GMT+1)

:Did you maybe create a military and train dwarves in hammers and axes?  --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:19, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:: The one and only military migrant (a Marksdwarf) I got so far came after I had someone advance to Champion level. Is this just a coincidence or have other people noticed this?  --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:44, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:::No. I made crossbows and got marksdwarves immigrants and my best soldier was a novice crossbowman. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:55, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

The equipment requirement is also filled by artifacts, I had a mood produce a sword and just got a swordsdwarf. The only weapon I have commanded to be forged was a crossbow. --[[User:Diserian|Diserian]]

== Immigration Rate ==

Has anyone noticed there seems to be a logarithmic curve associated with immigration?  In the beginning, it doesn't matter what I do to keep my wealth down (including only building 7 beds and a small wooden 'shack' to put them above ground, and not mining out any squares) I seem to get a ton of immigrants.  However, going from 1.1M to 1.4M resulted in only 5 immigrants or so the whole year.  Either there might be a 'minimum' baseline for forts (and 7 isn't it, seems closer to 25-40 or so, doesn't matter what your wealth is you will grow to that) or it is logarithmic.  I don't think it is related to deaths in my large fortress, I've had one elite marksdwarf die to a hydra, and 6-7 more (in 6 years) to goblins, moods, etc.  I don't have the economy, perhaps this slows it down around 100?  --Gotthard 11:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Heh, I'm about to test that: my first winter killed six of my dwarves so we'll see how many migrants I get. I'm currently outnumbered by dogs about 10:1... unfortunately I also lost my only mare so I've got two male horses, may as well kill both of them as soon as I need a quick snack! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:: Might as well add some info. While testing, I lost 4 of my initial dwarf. I digged a 3x3 up/down stair (mined some gold), build one bed, one armor rack. And that's it. Well I did kill some rhesus macaque and stole some food from a caravan. Yet 5 migrants still came anyway without a lot of wealth. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:54, 28 January 2009 (EST)
:::A bear attacked me during the first season, killing 2 dwarves, and badly wounding my leader/carpenter.  After mining about 5 or 6 gem deposits, a hematite vein, a limonite vein, and a coal vein, my first immigrant wave came with 24 dwarves.  Now, after a moody engraver made an artifact, I've engraved pretty much every available surface, masterpieces everywhere, and I'm afraid of how many dwarves I'll have after the next wave.  The biggest problem is I don't know how many bedrooms to build ahead of time.  --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Military immigrants without weapons ==

I started a game with just one dwarf.  The first immigration wave, in the next spring, I got a recruit as one of my immigrants.  This recruit had NO military skills, and no armor or weapons.  What confuses me is that I had never created any weapons.  The only remotely military thing I ever made was a single leather armor.  If it matters, I hadn't created hardly anything else before that point either--a bed, basic furniture, less than ten stone crafts, no cooking, and that armor.  Anyone else seen this?  It throws a kink into the "weapons bring military dwarves" thing.  Oh, and I also have pits as a feature in this map if it matters (as yet unrevealed). --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 09:28, 12 January 2008 (EST)
: Did the recruit have any skills? Otherwise he's basically the same as a peasant.  How many dwarfs were in your military at the time.  That might also have been a factor. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)

::I just got something sorta like this. I've made warhammers mostly and maybe some axes/picks. And yet, one of my immigrants that came was a marksdwarf. I didn't even have any crossbows or bolts of any kind. I think the claim that you need to have made the weapons first might be outdated. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 09:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:::There are 2 types of "military" migrants - "weaponsdwarfs" (fill in the name of the weapon), and "wrestlers".  Wrestlers come with no armor or weapons, but do have a weapons skill, and usually either shield- or armor-user (or both) as well.  (There are also "rangers" and "hunters" etc., but they're not, technically, "military".) This happens too often to be a bug - it's just another random result.<br />You don't ''have'' to have the weapons to get a military dwarf (with or without weapon and armor), but if you do that will tend to be the type of weapons-dwarf that arrives. Maybe crossbows/marksdwarfs are an exception - (are you sure some gobbos didn't leave one lying around?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 10:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

== Seasons and Immigration ==

I've had immigrants arrive in spring, summer and fall but never winter.  Has anyone had immigrants arrive in winter?  Or does whether immigrants arrive in winter depend on your fort's climate? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:45, 29 January 2008 (EST)
: I just had a group of dwarves migrate during winter right after reading this. I am in a warm climate though.  What was strange was in the following Summer I had another wave of migrants. Two in one year. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Multiple waves of immigration isn't unusual, I often get migrants in both autumn AND spring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had an immigrant wave arrive mid-summer in my first year. 6th Malachite, to be specific.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:07, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Headline text ==

Currently, my record is 32 dwarfs, 8 kids and pets. anybody else beaten that?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 07:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if you are sure of that, you should add it to the article. While most people seem to get smth like 20 to 25 ( my max being 19+pets), no one knows if ther's a limit and how high it is, so.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::i regularly get 24 exactly, but on a few cases ive gotten more, most being 28, with lots of kids -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Strange stuff ==

Once I had a leatherworker who came onto the map and as soon as he appeared, there was a message
 'dwarf has been possessed'
Strange, has this happenedto any once? Was he possessed before he came to my Fortress? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That once happened to someone in the 2D version... tis quite simple. When a fey mood occurs, a random dwarf gets it. As it so happened, this dwarf had recently immigrated to your fortress. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Interesting, can't say I've come across that particular bug, although I did come across an item with no name! It was just called a "Large ." --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It isn't a bug. The fey immigrant, not the "Large ." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: I seem to get this a lot - the wealth embodied by all those new clothes on the backs of the immigrants might push the fortress wealth over a level needed to trigger a strange mood, perhaps. Then it's luck of the draw whether it strikes a settled dwarf or a new immigrant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:50, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lone Dwarf ==

"A migrant has arrived."
For some reason I only got one migrant this time! Weird! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:28, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Migrant caps ==

The cap is set in my init.txt file as 200, but in one of my fortresses I got well over 200 (something like 225). Is there anything that could cause this other than a straight-up glitch? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 23:04, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:The population cap is only checked to see if another migrant wave is allowed. It is entirely possible, often likely, that the actual number of migrants in the wave pushes the population over the value set. IIRC, pregnancies will also bypass the cap. The softness of this limit is a well known... feature... :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:However I had mine set to 50, had a wave of immigration that pushed it from <50 to 59, and have just gotten another load of migrants. Is there some hard coded minimum population? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::It won't stop at exactly 50 -- you just stop getting immigrant waves after you exceed your cap.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:36, 6 December 2008 (EST)

I've got a cap of 0 and I still get bleeding migrant waves. I still get them with a cap of 1, too. Is there any way to turn them off? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:46, 3 February 2009 (EST)

== Migrant skills ==

Does the amount of workshops you have for a skill affect how many immigrants have that skill? I've had no dyer's shop for a really long time, and I notice I have only one dyer, whereas I have plenty of dwarves with every other skill. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 21:19, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
: I don't think so, because I always get hordes of dyers, cheese makers, and woodburners, even when I don't have any of the appropriate workshops. I really miss the days of getting miners, siege operators, growers, and masons.--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 16:59, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Your fortress attracted no migrants this season." ==

I'm playing a Haunted fortress on a volcano for the first time, and I got this message in my first summer.  It seemed odd because I almost never get migrants during the first summer, but this is the first time that fact was announced.  Is this a tweak in the new version (181.40c), which I just downloaded today, or is it because I'm in a haunted map?  I got the message again in the fall.  --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 17:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:lots of people dying discourages immigration, as well as certain import/export/mining and immigration map factors, as far as i can tell.--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 21:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Id say its a new feature of the game, since it didn't occur before that version.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:08, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed an extension of this- I got a message just now, all in red, saying "Migrants refused to journey to such a dangerous fortress this season." Ive been raided near constantly by goblins over the last year of this game, so maybe that influences immigrants now? .--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 13:47, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd imagine it's due to the number of recent deaths, specifically. [[Immigration#How_can_I_curb_immigration.3F|That's covered in the article]]. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:11, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:^_^ I got a new message about immigration recently. "Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb". Seriously, I get very few deaths normally... this last season was bad because I've been building roads to try to entice the king, so I have more dwarves ranging far from the fortress. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 22:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::"No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season." Can you tell I just breached the [[Glowing pits|Fun stuff]]? 150 Dwarfs dead in less then a season.[[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I don't think it takes much... losses of about 4-5 dwarfs over the course of a year resulted in my getting both of the above messages about cursed death traps and probable tombs. Maybe it was the horrific way in which they happened... the Duchess's consort was ripped limb from limb right in front of the forest by an ambushing goblin party and I lost a few other people to goblin raids where they had every single body part broken and mangled before they died (sometimes a high toughness is a bad idea... as Jame said in ''Godstalk'', it's a good idea to always have the option of dying). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I've got many time this message : "Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season.". 
I don't really know where does this come from... facts that can explain that are :

* I've been raided many times (something like 3-4 ambushes a year, and it's my 4th year) by goblin ambushers, and have been besieged by humans. But the last ambushers hadn't killed many dwarves (1 dwarf and 2 kittens last time).
* I settled on cold (north) and freezing (south, my fortress being approximatively in the north) biomes. The river in the south part of the map is always frozen, and the north murky pools freezes something like 6 months a year.
* Merchants (human, that's what caused the siege, but also -maybe- dwarves) has been killed during ambushes. I don't remember how many, but it may have scared the mountainhomes.

Also, immigration seems to be much slower than in my precedents forts (one wave per year or so, when it's not cancelled by the above message), and I noticed that I haven't received caravans since a year or so (maybe related with the above statement about merchants deaths). -[[User:Timst|Timst]] 12:58, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I also got the migrants where to nervous to migrant message, i dont know where it came from, before i got the migrants braved the danger message but for the past 2 years or so even with 2 sieges and numerous ambushes ive had no deaths, and im not on a dangerous biome, so the nervous migrant message most likely as nothing to do with either deaths or biomes... -sindain

I've killed off nearly every single dwarf that's immigrated to my fortress. I've got a nasty infestation of Carp (40+, with the assorted Sturgeon, Sea Lamprey, and Longnose Gar) in my river, and I've been sending the immigrants I didn't like to their deaths to whittle away at their numbers. The only immigration messages I've gotten are "Some immigrants have arrived, despite the danger," and "No immigrants have arrived this season." Odd that no one seems to be concerned about the high percentage of deaths in my immigrants any more than to say, "Well, it seems kind of dangerous there, but let's go anyway!" Then they end up being ripped limb from limb by vicious schools of Carp. Why is my fortress not yet labelled a death trap? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 14:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

==No immigration?==
I just played a game with no immigration. There were no dwarven civilizations nearby. How did that even happen? --[[User:Fringd|Fringd]] 22:10, 8 November 2008 (EST) (Moved from article page --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:23, 9 November 2008 (EST))
: You didn't start the game on an island, did you?  It's not entirely impossible to find a location where there are no other civilizations near you, but the world gen certainly does a good job at making this difficult.  Can you post an export or seed of your map? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:01, 15 March 2009 (EST)
: You said it yourself - "There were no dwarven civilizations nearby".  If, during world-gen, all of those get wiped out (by the various forces and fates that worldgen subjects civs to), then congrats - you're all alone.  Islands can do it too - it's hardly unheard of.  But it does deserve a comment here I suppose.  (I always check all the various info via {{key|tab}} on that site finder screen - make sure I have both trading partners and enemies. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

==Immigration season ==

For me, immigration seems to follow this trend: Randomly and completely independent of wealth, a small imigration may occur during summer/autumn/winter.  This immigration is always typically in the very small amount range (seems to be no greater than about 10).  However, during spring, immigration will ''always'' occur and be an amount dependent on wealth [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== Immigrants braving the tomb ==

Just got the message with 61 deaths and ~2,070,0000 created wealth.  I'm guessing wealth is based on 2,000,000 and that the message occurs whenever one gets no immigration from danger, regardless of deaths (I let my queen die, e.g. and that's probably all it took). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
: Just got this message with ''twenty-one'' deaths, plus one Countess Consort. Probably linked more to nobles than body count. Changing the main article to reflect this. --[[User:Loyal|Loyal]] 12:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

==This page contradicts itself.== 

Where it says the caravan reports your wealth, than says if you are productive immigrants may come in the first summer. Something must be wrong, if there is no caravan report than your productivity would have nothing to do with it. If on the other hand it is productivity AND the caravan reports, then the guesses on other parts of the calculations for migrant waves are probably off.--[[User:Criptfeind|Criptfeind]] 16:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
: I went ahead and reworded a bit. Probably anyone agrees that wealth is a strong factor and I also have the impression that the dwarven caravan has an influence, but indeed neither is this proven fact AFAIK, nor is it the whole story. One might argue that word of early success (and great wealth/growth generally) gets around without caravan, but the detailed report of the caravan attracts more dwarves to come, but this is simply speculation. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:: Well it really doesn't matter too much in any case.  After lots and lots of experimention and trying out builds, the amount of wealth required to get the maximum immgrants up until 50 population is incredibly low, and the first spring/summer/august immgrations will always happen randomly (after starting the first year for about 16 tests, I actually got more summer/autumn immigration with less wealth than the very high wealth trials (120k+ by first caravan), but I'm guessing it's coincidence).  Getting 20k by the first caravan and 100k by the first caravan will net the exact same immgration for a long time (~8 for non-spring, 20-30 for spring).  It's when you get incredibly low amounts, like 5k or so, by doing nothing but stat training on sand walls for two straight seasons, that you even notice a change in immigration. In that case I've gotten as little as 6 immigrants on the gauranteed new year's spring immigration, but you STILL get a random chance for summer/autumn/winter immigration.  Once you get about 50, though, wealth makes a solid difference, but I'm too lazy to run tests for 3 year old fortresses.  [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


==migration and location on world map==
I know this is a really old discussion on the matter, and was from a different version. But to bring this topic back into context. I just started a fortress on the space right next to a dwarven mountainhome and in Summer of my first year I got 9 immigrants, then come Autumn, before my caravan left, I got another 9 dwarves coming. These were the first dwarves I had ever received before Spring of the second year of a fortress, and my wealth was under 5000 even when the first wave came, and just around 15000 when the second wave arrived. Could the close proximity to the other fortress be having an affect on my immigrant waves? [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 11:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
:Well, I would agree, especially when you start your new fortress near your home civ. When I do so my autumn wave arrives rather fast after the carvan leaves. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Immigration tied to liason, not caravan ==

I don't think your wave of immigrants is tied to the caravan.  I believe it is tied to the liason.  In one game I traded with the caravan first and then talked to the liason.  No immigrants arrived that fall of my first year.  I reloaded, talked to the liason first, and sent him on his way as fast as I could and then traded with the caravan.  And I got 7 immigrants my first year.  My fortress wealth also was not very high at all (20k or so).  Finally, sometimes, no matter how quickly I talk to the liason, I still don't get the immigrants the first year... so my theory could be wrong.  But my experience indicates that the liason is tied to your immigrant waves.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 15:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
:This is an interesting observation, and might well prove to have merit - HOWEVER... it doesn't yet.  There are a LOT of random and unknown factors in DF.  Repeat this experiment 5 times on different maps, with the same results, and it will gain more support - and surprise the hell outa me, because of the randomizers.  Immigration (like combat, king's arrival and some other events) are the type of thing that must be seen as trends, not specific instances, because of all the variables and unknowns.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
::I can add weight to this theory as well.  My first year, three raccoons (apparently DIRE RACCOONS!) ambushed and killed the wagon, leaving all the items on the map and all the traders left before getting to my trade depot.  The liason made it successfully to the meeting and off the map, and my first migrant wave is currently in progress on 28th Sandstone in Autumn of year 1. To sum up -- merchants did not hit my trade depot (but did leave map, so maybe they DID report wealth somehow through the magic of...traderliness), Liason did, I have migrants. [[User:Rowenlemmings|''Rowen'']]<sup>[[User Talk:Rowenlemmings|(talk)]]</sup> 03:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)