Editing 40d Talk:Adamantine

Has anyone found any yet?

:I've heard so, yes.  I forget which talk page it was on.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 22:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

::It isn't anywhere on the wiki, if a search for "adamantine" would show it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
::Cancel that. You can't find it by searching for "adamantine" but "addy" gave me [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3 this forum thread]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Adamantine Confirmed for Brawl- Er, Fortress ==

http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3

Not only have Adamantine veins been found, mildly disturbing variations of the demon pits, demon-free mini-pits, and the demons themselves are also mentioned. Striking Adamantine no longer appears to result in an inevitable game-over condition, but breaching a 'peculiar chamber' and not sealing it off afterward can quickly result in a destroyed fortress for obvious reasons.

Also, apparently there are occasionally crazy people down there.

Wait, Savok already posted this.

Oh well.

== Where to find it ==

http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176

In the above thread, Toady mentions the pits (and therefore adamantium) are located on every map tile which is displayed as a mountain. He then notes that it might only place them on mountain squares in the local map as well, but that he wasn't sure. So, that detail needs verification. Also, from testing out about a dozen volcano tiles (using reveal.exe) I found adamantine and the pits on every one. So, I've assumed that volcano tiles count as mountains for pit placement. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This seems to be generally true, but not absolutely true. I found a volcano in a desert on a completely flat map, and there was no adamant. Perhaps there is a depth requirement. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]]

:Was this on an actual volcano tile, or just an adjacent tile with a magma vent? --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:11, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::It was on an actual volcano tile. I probably can find it this evening if you'd like me to snag the seed so you can see for yourself. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:36, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Old info ==

I also ported over parts of the old adamantine info which seemed to still be correct for this version, and trimmed out the bits which no longer seemed to be true. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:There now only seems to be one labor directly related to adamantine, and that is Strand Extraction. Presumably weaving, smelting to wafers, and forging with the wafers now use the relevant "normal" skills but perhaps with a penalty to speed. I have not yet found adamantine, so if anybody has succeeded in analyzing its use, please correct the information in the wiki! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Okay, since I've been playing around with adamatine in 33a and 33b for a little while now, I've edited the page a fair bit.  In particular, I've eliminated the Old Info section, wrapping that into the main body where it's correct, and eliminating it where it's not.  I further added notes about treating the ore as a stone, since the value is a little different (I've got an Adamantine Ashery due to the ore not being an economic stone in 33a).  I mentioned the apparent relationship between discovering adamantine and the King arriving.  I removed the "ver" tag and replaced it with normal text, since it was forcing the page into the "outdated info" category, and I think we're now accurate to 33b.  The only thing we still need to check is whether magma version of shops are still needed to handle the processing.  (A magma clothier's shop... hmmm). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:02, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Since apparently someone has verified that magma smelters are not needed to make wafers, can we take this to be a concession from Toady due to magma not being available in all mountain tiles that adamantine is? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:38, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== Demon pit image ==

I believe that's just a magma vent, which may or may not contain adamantine, though there's bound to be some somewhere in a mountain range. --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]], 20 November 2007

:I moved the above comment from the edit summary[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Adamantine&diff=10287&oldid=10117]. It is an example of where adamantine can be found, and where one person found it. I think it's useful on this article, so I'll put it back with a caption explaining it's an example. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:23, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, I'm not going to nix your edit, I'll leave that decision up to you or others. But I have to say I don't really see that image as being remotely useful without a lot more context than 'this is an example'. What exactly is it an example of? What information is actually being provided? I can't really see how the image generates anything except confusion because it happens to be a magma square. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 17:09, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::The image doesnt seem helpful as is. Perhaps with a world seed and a little more explanation [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:34, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Unless a demon pit can always be found to the east of a magma tile, the image is misleading.  The text in the Location section is more accurate, though it needs some more verifying and fleshing out.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:::All good points. I removed the image again. Maybe we can get a more helpful image at some point. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Standardized spelling ==

I just want to point out, despite it being definitively spelled [[Adamantine]] consistently in Dwarf Fortress, people still will spell it "adamantium" or "adamantite," presumably due to previous experience with Marvel Comics or World of Warcraft, respectively. (At least those are the places where ''I've'' seen those alternative spellings.) --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Strands and loom ==
Are adamantine strands automatically processed at loom, if 'auto weave thread into cloth' option is on? I think, it's important to know. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:29, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:They are not. There is anew Loom job, "a: Weave Metal Cloth" --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 00:11, 17 January 2008 (EST)

==Verification==
Verify tag was questioning whether Adamantine appears more often on mountain tilesets than on others. Definately, in a ratio of 100:1 or more. Confirmed using the regional prospector.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Adamantine bolts ==

In the article, it says that everything made out of adamantine uses 3 wafers in the place of one bar. This is usually correct, but in the case of making bolts, I'm pretty sure you just need one wafer to make a stack of 25 bolts. It might work for coins and other stacked things as well, I'm not sure. Can someone confirm this? --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 15:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)


== merge? ==
I was wondering, should this be merged with raw adamantine? they both have extremely similar facts, and there are little differences. I don't know how to do this, and I think that some people might object, so any thoughts on this, go here. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:29, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
:Vote: '''No merge.''' The pages are seperate because [[Adamantine]] refers to the processed metal and [[Raw adamantine]] refers to the ore. It's basically the standard. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== The ominous timer ==

...'''Too Deep'''. What, exactly, does it mean? I've heard it in some places, but this quote from Boatmurdered got me wondering for a while:
 In my knowledge the Too Deep timer starts if you mine somewhere between 10-99 adamantium /.../
(Quote source: Guerilla Medic)

So, this ominous sounding thing, along with the mention (above) of mining adamantine resulting in an 'invariable game over' has gotten me quite curious.

Just what happens? What are the mechanics, how is it triggered, and most importantly--

''How does the game end?'' ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 22:14, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

:This is from the 2D version. (and it's incorrect, the timer is started based on a random roll that gets a higher chance the more Ad you've mined) Maybe we should have a page about the 2D version and all the major ways it's different from the current version. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

::I am aware of that; so is the magma river which I so dearly wish I was there to see. But I don't really want to use the 2D version because of all the bugs and everything.

::A few searches (using Google) said that the timer's purpose was to eventually lead to that final game over. So why's it gone and all? Shouldn't it be an option?

::And if Toady ever reads this, I think a whole lot of features from the 2D version should be brought back, hopefully in a toggleable manner (e.g. magma river--I want to pull a Boatmurdered, and a '''river of magma''' sounds pretty awesome in itself); I feel this would be great for the oldbies as well as midbies, and the newbies would eventually tromp on over and discover a few options that made the game more fun for them.

::Oh, and one last thing: Random, that's a great idea. I'd help, but I've never so much as downloaded the 2D version. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:37, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, I'll help get it started, by describing the differences I remember.  Some important changes came post-3D, too, but I stopped playing DF for most of 2008, so I didn't notice what changed when.

:::*Z-levels (the biggie).  Among other things, channels were no impediment unless they were filled with fluid.  There was no fluid "pressure"; fluids were infinite, and if a floodgate was destroyed or otherwise unclosable, the resulting flood could easily destroy your entire fort.  Being infinite, it also had no "depth" (x/7).
:::*The chasm would contain primarily antmen, ratmen, or batmen, and 5-15 of them would spontaneously crawl out of it on a fairly regular basis until you poured enough magma in there to "kill" the chasm.  Frogmen, snakemen, or lizardmen would also show up spontaneously along the banks of the river (and also crawl out of wells), though much less often.  The underground river would flood once each spring, summer, and fall (in the form of waves sweeping out up to 20 tiles from its banks), and the floods would tend to sweep dwarves into the river, who would almost always drown.  Items swept into the river would permanently disappear.
:::*Terrain layout -- previously there was just an "outside", with a river zig-zagging north to south (except in scorching/freezing climates), a nearly flat cliff face, and cave river, chasm, magma river and demon pits at fairly regular distances eastward from the cliff face, that were present in every fortress.  Behind the pits, forming the eastern edge of the map, was an adamantine-lined impassable chasm (containing no creatures -- at least, none you ever saw).  Oh, and the cave river was always lined with limestone and the magma river was always lined with obsidian.  Gold, platinum, hematite, and coal could be found in any mountain, though always to the east of the chasm.  Gem types were also tied to depth.  There were no geographic-style stone layers, and there were only a handful of different types of stone, which were either "light" (limestone, moonstone, or marble), "dark" (obsidian, jet, or onyx), or just "stone".  Limestone was the only usable flux, and coal was coal (no lignite or bituminous, and it always produced 2 bars from smelting).
:::*Mining even a little bit of adamantine set into motion an eventual and unavoidable end-of-game ("Too deep").  Mining a lot of adamantine would cause it to happen at the start of the next season.
:::*Starting location choices -- Previously there were only a few dozen fixed locations on each map you could choose, all with the same layout and size; the only thing that varied was biome (climate, creatures, trees, and shrubs), and each location had only one biome.  (Accessibility by different civilizations also varied depending on starting location -- this is perhaps little changed in the current version.)  Now you can start just about anywhere on the world map, with a variable-size fortress map, which can span several different adjacent biomes and terrains.
:::*Cave-ins would happen pretty much automatically if you mined out a 7x7 area or larger without leaving an unmined natural column in place (or built a pillar).
:::*Choice of starting goods was very limited.  You couldn't bring an anvil (one would automatically be brought in the first summer by a metalsmith).  Starting points were very tight... something like a quarter of what they are now.
:::*Trader wagon access required an actual 3-wide road (not just a clear path) stretching from the western edge of the map to the depot (which had to be near the cliff face or inside the fort).
:::*You couldn't build traps or farms outdoors.  You could build bridges outdoors but not make them raisable/retractable.
:::*You couldn't build/rebuild walls or any of the other [[constructions]].
:::*Activity zones, including dumps, were introduced with the 3D version.
:::*Sand was always available, from the banks of the indoor or outdoor river.
:::*Machines (gears, pumps, windmills, etc.) did not exist.  There was a "mill" workshop that had to be built on one of the rivers.
:::*Nobles changed a lot.  There used to be "guildmasters" corresponding to different professions (farming, mining, masonry, etc.).  The manager was your first noble, who arrived after hitting 20 dwarves.  There was no "trader" noble or trade skills; you could trade at any point after the caravan fully unloaded.  You couldn't do workshop profiles until the manager arrived and couldn't use the stocks screen until the bookkeeper arrived, which would start the [[dwarven economy]].  The mayor, manager, trade minister, and treasurer were all different, full-time nobles, and the baron/count/duke (and their consorts) were all separate as well.  Add to this the guildmasters and  "Order of the <weapon>" nobles and you could easily have 30 nobles in your fort.
:::*Dwarves who created artifacts would carry those artifacts non-stop for the next several years.
:::*Mining would leave behind stones or gems 50% of the time, regardless of miner skill.  Ore would be left behind 100% of the time by legendary miners, less often for lower skill.  All mining byproducts now follow the "ore" formula; up to 100% of the time, dependent on skill.
:::*Encumbrance changed at some point (post-3D?).  The Γ unit was made 1/10th its former weight, and much greater variation in material weights was introduced.
:::*Custom stockpiles were introduced before the 3D version -- this was probably the most revolutionary change introduced during the 2D era.  Well, no, fire was probably bigger... and so buggy when it was first introduced you were best off turning it off.  I believe temperature was introduced at the same time, which was also pretty buggy.
:::That's all I can remember for now.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:07, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Based on the boatmurdered screenshots, it appears that discovery of the chasm/cave river depended on line-of-sight (i.e. the whole thing wouldn't appear all at once the moment you breached it) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::That's correct.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:57, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think artifacts no longer being held on to by dwarves who made them was post-3D, I remember reading an old post in a penny arcade forum on their 3D succession game. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:54, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:It's very sad that I've learned most of what I know about this from Boatmurdered.

:So, wouldn't it be good, then, if things like the magma river (with the obsidian lining working as it does now) were brought back? Also, the floods would be great as a toggleable option (only) in my opinion; heck, have it depend upon where you've settled, too. Like a possible Nile setup, if the conditions are similar. So you'd have a '''predictable''' flood which'd make muddy soil and all, maybe fertilize it (if there's a difference, and if it does any good as of yet). A modified, toggleable cave-in system would be nice, too; I don't like how the tiles just support themselves. (You can build a huge pier leading straight into the ocean, then drop a building into it, or make an aquaduct in the same manner to make lava and water create obsidian to build into or whatever...underwater base, done.) Maybe as a 'new player' option.

:Also, could you explain ''exactly'' what the "'''Too Deep'''" timer did when it finished counting down? Was some kind of animation displayed, and if so, what did it show? Or what did it do to end the game? Etcetera... If it's just one screen, screenshots would be good too. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:25, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::This reminds me; daemons need a ''serious'' difficulty boost. Sure, they'll simply ''destroy'' the random new player who stumbles across them, but then again, so will [[carp]]. So I propose that somebody make the daemons absolute rape machines; the first (all-'round) daemon to spawn should be essentially ten times as strong as the daemons that spawn right afterwards or something to that effect. Spirits of fire could be given dragon-level breath, and all daemons would get super fire resistance.

::Among other things, such as [DAMBLOCK] boosts, more demons, etcetera. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:02, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/images/3/3c/Adamantite_game_over.PNG

I remember Toady saying somewhere that he wanted to make cave-ins as much of a challenge as in the 2D versions, but there may be game-slowdown issues.  In a recent dev_now he talked about making the chasm civilization more dynamic again (not just a bunch of monsters that are gone once killed).

Balancing the difficulty of the demons is hard, since you either know how to fight them and have a long time to prepare, or you don't, and you'll get massacred.  But if you want Toady to hear any of these things, say them on the forums -- he doesn't hang around the wiki.

(Some) players did indeed use the river flooding for Nile-style farming in the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:53, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Interesting. Basically, though, what I'm trying to aim for is to make daemons like they were when one went Too Deep; but without a game-over screen. So you're probably going to be absolutely ''destroyed'', but you just ''might'' have a chance if you're extremely lucky.

:It'd make things easier if we had more elemental attacks; but that makes it start sounding like Pokemon after a while. But if we had, say, 'holy' weapons, then they could be made to be the only things that would do squat against daemons. Maybe the only holy weapons would be artifacts; in fact, that sounds like a great idea to me, because that means it's a lot harder to 'cheat' the system to get the weapons you'd need early.

:Also, wow, this talk section has gotten simply massive. Never thought such a large discussion would be sparked.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 21:59, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ::It isn't anywhere on the wiki, if a search for "adamantine" would show it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
 ::Cancel that. You can't find it by searching for "adamantine" but "addy" gave me [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3 this forum thread]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
+== Adamantine Confirmed for Brawl- Er, Fortress ==
+http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3
+Not only have Adamantine veins been found, mildly disturbing variations of the demon pits, demon-free mini-pits, and the demons themselves are also mentioned. Striking Adamantine no longer appears to result in an inevitable game-over condition, but breaching a 'peculiar chamber' and not sealing it off afterward can quickly result in a destroyed fortress for obvious reasons.
+Also, apparently there are occasionally crazy people down there.
+Wait, Savok already posted this.
+Oh well.
 == Where to find it ==
@@ Line 17: / Line 29: @@
 ::It was on an actual volcano tile. I probably can find it this evening if you'd like me to snag the seed so you can see for yourself. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:36, 19 November 2007 (EST)
-IS there any information on depth in relation to finding deposits, or is it random? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 13:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
-:There is ''always'' a number of randomizing factors involved in almost any DF function, and often many are inter-related.  With this, it has a tag that is supposed to put it "deep" - however, with erosion, some players have found it easily visible in a chasm, or claimed to (rarely) find it exposed on the surface - put what weight you want in that.  But, yes, it's usually(?) only found "deep"... ish... --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
-:: Would an advisable search pattern for Adamantine be from the bottom up then? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 04:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
-:::I, personally, would say "no", for because of two quirks re adamantine: 1, it has veins that flow in 3 dimensions, so it's quite possible to find traces of it in mid-levels.  But more important... um... (how best to phrase this?...)... there are ancient warnings about delving too deep for adamantine.  The shallower, the safer - we'll just leave it at that.  From the bottom up might be too much [[fun]] all at once. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 == Old info ==
@@ Line 61: / Line 67: @@
 In the article, it says that everything made out of adamantine uses 3 wafers in the place of one bar. This is usually correct, but in the case of making bolts, I'm pretty sure you just need one wafer to make a stack of 25 bolts. It might work for coins and other stacked things as well, I'm not sure. Can someone confirm this? --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 15:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
-I'm doing alot of experiments with Adamantine, and yes, 1 wafer = a stack of 25 Bolts.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 02:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 == merge? ==
@@ Line 140: / Line 145: @@
 :Also, wow, this talk section has gotten simply massive. Never thought such a large discussion would be sparked.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 21:59, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
-::Those are some interesting ideas, though, again, Toady's the one that needs to hear them.<br>I've copied my 2D vs. 3D list into an actual article, and expanded its purpose: [[History of Dwarf Fortress]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:22, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
-::: And what happened if, after the "Too deep" game over, you tried to explore the fortress in Adventurer mode ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
-::::You would find a single adjectiveless "Demon" in it, of slightly larger size than the pit demons.  All raw adamantine left in the fort would supposedly turn into silver.  I never tried it myself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:35, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
-::::: Oh wow. That sure was a nice, intriguing game over. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:29, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
-==Adamantine Strand Stockpiling==
-So, Adamantine strands are apparently placed in cloth stockpiles, as claimed, but there doesn't seem to be any way to turn adamantine *off* for cloth stockpiles, as adamatine strands do not appear in the cloth stockpile item types options (your options under cloth are: thread(silk), thread(plant), cloth(silk), and cloth(plant)).  Furthermore, all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal, because deselecting allow plant/animal in additional options doesn't prevent non-adamantine cloth/thread from being placed in the stockpile (and regular cloth is removed from stockpiles for which you deselect 'allow non-plant/animal').  Basically, there is no way to tell your cloth stockpiles to only accept adamantine strands, which contradicts elements of this and related pages.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:38, 25 November 2008 (EST)
-:As in the article, having a Stockpile set to take from all other cloth stockpiles, but set to accept no "known" types of cloth, works. Incidentally a dyer has just dyed some Adamantine strands blue with Dimple dye. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 13:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
-==A Little Unclear==
-How many adamantium strands are produced from one raw adamantium? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 12:20, 17 January 2009 (EST)
-:One.  --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 18 January 2009 (EST)
-==Adamantine==
-Adamantine is used in several mythologies to bind some sort of great evil.  This is relevant to our interests.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
-== Adamantine at gobbo fortresses? ==
-Wondering if it's possible or not. Any help on this would be great! [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 03:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Adamantine to Goblets to Adamantine again? ==
-Does this work in a way so as to yield 1 wafer from each goblet melted down? (For those not noticing the problem. That would mean 3 wafers for the cost of 1 wafer. Behold Dwarven magic!) [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:03, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-:Okay, actually, this shouldn't work, just took a quick read through of how melting works and figured out why not. I didn't think melting down items returned such a small amount for everything. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-== adamantine wafers ==
-i have found a huge outcropping of adamant. how do i make it into wafers? there is no option at the magma smelter. do i need a normal smelter? --<small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Sirmoocowthethird|Sirmoocowthethird]]</small>
-:1. Please '''sign your comments''' (by adding <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> afterwards). 2. You need to have a [[strand extractor]] convert the raw adamantine into adamantine strands, then you can smelt those strands into wafers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
-sorry, im new at this. ill try 2 thank you.--[[User:Sirmoocowthethird|Sirmoocowthethird]] 00:09, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
-== Spoiler warning ==
-There is only one spoiler in this whole article and it is in the lead section. If you can see the spoiler warning you can see what it is warning you about.
-Sureley this needs to be changed? Maybe put in a section for where it is found?
-Thing is I don't know enough to make such a section. I've never found any let alone done it enough times to know the difference between the few times I'd achieved such a thing and what has to happen all the time.
-<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 09:01, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
-:Actually, there is nothing "spoiler quality" about adamantine - it's the ore, [[raw adamantine]], that's the trick, and to get here you've already gone thru there.  Removed spoiler and warning here, and moved spoiler below standard info there.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)